1 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: Elk calling world champions. Yeah, they can call, but can 2 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:19,439 Speaker 1: they hunt? Today's guest is R M. E F World 3 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: Champion in runner up, But that isn't why I have 4 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:25,439 Speaker 1: him on the show today. He's a great, great elk hunter. 5 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 1: He's very accomplished and skilled. Tony Gilbertson out of Vernonia, Oregon. 6 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: Welcome to the show, Tony. Hey, thanks Jason, I appreciate 7 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:42,200 Speaker 1: this opportunity. Yeah, how's everything going down there in Oregon? 8 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: So far? It's not too hot. I know you're on 9 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:47,600 Speaker 1: the coast um, but how's everything down there? I was 10 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 1: stilling good, Uh, it's it's been hot that in Vernounia. 11 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:53,600 Speaker 1: It's I mean we're in the foothills of the coast range, 12 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 1: so it stays a little bit cooler and it cools 13 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: down more at night. So we just opened up the 14 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:00,120 Speaker 1: one does at night and we're good to go. No, 15 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:04,680 Speaker 1: it's always good. I'm I'm ready for fall. Yeah, ye 16 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 1: aren't we? All? It's closing in quick. And do you 17 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 1: have any big hunts lined up for this fall? So, 18 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 1: with Oregon changing a lot of the units that we 19 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 1: hunted over nichean oregan to control longly. Um, you know 20 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: I can hunt Roosevelt's I can be in the woods 21 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 1: from my house and about you know, ten or fifteen minutes, 22 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 1: and I can hunt every day after work if I 23 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 1: want to, and on the weekends, and then usually take 24 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 1: a week off. So I'm just gonna have the general 25 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:36,960 Speaker 1: season O t C tag for Saddle Mountain Unit in 26 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:40,840 Speaker 1: Scapoose Unit. And then I was fortunate enough to get 27 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 1: a a tag in Idaho, so I'm looking forward to that. 28 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 1: Nice nice you canna take a week off and go 29 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 1: over to Idaho, then yeah, I'll hunt. I'll hunt the 30 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: whole the whole season here in Oregon, and then probably 31 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 1: the last five or six days I'll take off and 32 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 1: head over to Idaho. Nice, nice grats on that tag. 33 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: And Idaho seems to be getting tougher and tougher every 34 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 1: year where um, you know, it used to be what 35 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 1: just four or five years ago you could go to 36 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 1: the gas station during archery season and there were all 37 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 1: kinds of B tags left, and um, now if you 38 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 1: don't get a low enough number or uh you know, 39 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 1: lucky enough on December one, you're not getting any sort 40 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 1: of tag there. So um, yeah, Idaho. I was disappointed. 41 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 1: My son and I both got online there and and 42 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:29,640 Speaker 1: I was like eight hundred and sixty two and he 43 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 1: was six six thousand and some on. So I was 44 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:36,080 Speaker 1: fortunate enough to get the tag and he wasn't. And honestly, 45 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 1: I would have rather seen him get the tag and myself, 46 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 1: but I just didn't work out that way. So maybe 47 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 1: next year. Yeah, we're gonna jump into some listener questions 48 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 1: and if you have a question, um you want us 49 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 1: to answer or one of our guests answer, send it 50 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 1: to us at ct D at Phelps game Calls dot 51 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 1: Com will do our best to get get your questions answered. Um, 52 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 1: you know, send us a message whatever it needs to be. 53 00:02:57,040 --> 00:02:59,519 Speaker 1: But I kind of cherry picked this one for you, Tony. 54 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 1: How good of a color do you need to be 55 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:07,639 Speaker 1: to colon elk in your opinion? Yeah, in my opinion, Uh, 56 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:09,799 Speaker 1: you know a lot of guys stress out about that. 57 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 1: I've I've coached a number of people that honestly, they're 58 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 1: they're a bit shy or um, you know, scared to 59 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 1: show show me what they can do. And I try 60 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 1: to encourage them because, in my opinion, you don't have 61 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:29,960 Speaker 1: to be a world professional caller to call the ELK. 62 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 1: I've heard I've heard some elk in the woods that 63 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: that you would swear, sounded like a human uh, or 64 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 1: they sounded horrible, and it turns out that their bulls. Uh. 65 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 1: You know. I've got a good friend of mine that 66 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 1: that uh, you know, isn't the isn't the most accomplished 67 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 1: caller in the world, but you know, he calls in 68 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 1: bulls all the time. So I don't think it's I 69 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 1: don't think it's as necessary to be as good a 70 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 1: color as it is to be maybe more versatile in 71 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 1: terms of the different sounds you can make. Yeah, I'm 72 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 1: right there with you. You know, you don't have to 73 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 1: be as good as you dirt Jermaine, you know myself. 74 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 1: And I think, you know, we may be doing a 75 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 1: disservice to them, you know, because we make all this 76 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: hunting content and we share educational videos and they get 77 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 1: to hear, you know, some of the sounds that you 78 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:20,280 Speaker 1: guys can make and the quality of sounds that you 79 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:23,360 Speaker 1: guys can make, and I think, you know, as you said, 80 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:24,840 Speaker 1: they get a little timid, they get a little bit 81 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:28,159 Speaker 1: nervous that they can't make sounds like that or is 82 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 1: accurative sounds like that, And then they become very timid 83 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 1: in the elk woods. And and to kind of piggyback 84 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 1: on your answer, I think it's much more important to 85 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:39,240 Speaker 1: get the rest of the strategy right as far as 86 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 1: you know, locating out, getting the wind right, getting close, 87 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 1: and then at the end you ultimately need to have 88 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:47,279 Speaker 1: the confidence to make a call um versus you know, 89 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna get close and I'm gonna kind of 90 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:51,479 Speaker 1: hang out and just see what happens. You know, that's 91 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 1: that's never a good approach. UM. You know, it may work, UM, 92 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:56,039 Speaker 1: spot and stock may work. You know, we know a 93 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: lot of successful guys that end gals that don't necessarily 94 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:01,479 Speaker 1: pick up a all. They do it a different way. 95 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 1: But if you're going out there with the intent to, 96 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 1: you know, run a call and call a bowl into 97 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:08,840 Speaker 1: your lap, Um, I think you need to have some confidence. 98 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:10,840 Speaker 1: And that's why you know, some of the things, like 99 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:13,279 Speaker 1: you know, some of the calls that we've been designing lately, 100 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: such as the easy sucker and the easy bugler, it's 101 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:19,920 Speaker 1: not because me or you or Dirk or you know, 102 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 1: experienced colors that have dedicated you know, most of their 103 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 1: lives and you know, or a large you know, a 104 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 1: large time frame within their life and not the majority 105 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 1: of their life. But you know, we've dedicated a lot 106 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 1: of time to becoming very proficient, and I honestly believe that, 107 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:37,480 Speaker 1: you know, making these calls easier for people to use 108 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 1: is going to give them that confidence. And we got 109 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 1: a lot of feedback last year that's just the easy 110 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 1: Bugler like gave them the confidence to actually go into 111 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 1: the same areas in the same situations that they've been 112 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 1: in the past, and and they're actually blow on the 113 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 1: call and to get responses and to get action and 114 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 1: to play the game like, in my opinion, was meant 115 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 1: to be played. So that's some of the reasons, you know, 116 00:05:56,520 --> 00:06:00,280 Speaker 1: why we're running that. And uh, I honestly truly leave 117 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 1: that somebody that can at least sound somewhat decent is 118 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:05,600 Speaker 1: better to have those people running around in the woods. 119 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 1: That people that are blowing on a call that sound 120 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:10,839 Speaker 1: not good at all or you know, don't even resemble 121 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:12,840 Speaker 1: an Elkin. So in my opinion, it's it's not doing 122 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:14,839 Speaker 1: you know, much more harm than it is you know 123 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 1: elks on like Elkin, so um by allowing them to 124 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:21,840 Speaker 1: to sound better, it's actually helping all of us. Yeah, 125 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 1: I agree with that, Jason. I was talking to a guy. 126 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 1: I was at a birthday party over the weekend and 127 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:29,839 Speaker 1: and dufer and I was talking to a guy there 128 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:33,840 Speaker 1: that he struggles with with having a diaphragm in his 129 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:37,279 Speaker 1: mouth just because his gag reflex. And I was talking 130 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:39,159 Speaker 1: to him about the easy vehicle, and I said, you know, 131 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 1: there's there's options out there for you. Now. You don't 132 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 1: have to know how to use a diaphragm. Uh. You know, 133 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:49,119 Speaker 1: these cow calls that that um that phelps and others 134 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:53,040 Speaker 1: are developing right now are uh much easier than what 135 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:55,159 Speaker 1: they you know, to use and what they used to be. 136 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:59,680 Speaker 1: And if if you can't use a diaphragm, uh, you know, 137 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 1: the easy bugler is a fantastic option and it sounds awesome. 138 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 1: So uh he was he was going to look into 139 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 1: that because of that that very reason, and and he 140 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 1: didn't have confidence, I don't think in himself, just in 141 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 1: talking to him. But it's just a matter of picking 142 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 1: up the calls and and just you know, practicing. And 143 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 1: you don't, like I said, you don't have to be 144 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 1: a world champion elk caller, but you do need to 145 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 1: dedicate some time to at least sound somewhat realistic and 146 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 1: get to the point where you can you know, you 147 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 1: don't you don't sound the same every time that you 148 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 1: can throw some versatility in there and make the bulls 149 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 1: or you know, make the bulls sound like or hear 150 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 1: you in a way that that suggests you're another ELK. Yep. 151 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 1: And you know, there have been some situations where I 152 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: don't ever want to be called in by somebody else 153 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 1: or somebody else to feel like, you know, if they 154 00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 1: recognize us or see us. So um, there's been some 155 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 1: situations in the last few years where I'm about ready 156 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 1: to balance out of our calling set up. You know, 157 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 1: we've got set up, we're doing everything we think you're like, 158 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 1: you know, you're you're We're trying to listen and figure 159 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 1: out like is that a real ILK? Is that a person? Um? 160 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 1: And And multiple times over the last five years, I 161 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:18,240 Speaker 1: would say, you know, four or five different approaches that 162 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 1: I can remember fairly fairly well, we ended up calling 163 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 1: an ELK that I would have at some point during 164 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 1: that call in guess that they were a person. You know, 165 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: And so I don't think, you know, quality of calls, 166 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 1: it's more of you know, the ability, the confidence to 167 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: use them, um, and then making the sounds at the 168 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 1: right time UM are more important. So I think we're 169 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 1: we're both on the same page. You know, being a 170 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 1: great color isn't a requirement. UM, it does help us 171 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:45,319 Speaker 1: a little bit. Uh, one of the strategies we like 172 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 1: to use as mimicry. Uh. And and being a good 173 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 1: caller gives us the ability to, like, I think I 174 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 1: know how to make that sound, you know, because because 175 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 1: real ilk make all kinds of different sounds, and so 176 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 1: if I'm trying to copycat that bowl, it is nice 177 00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 1: to be able to. Oh, I I know how to 178 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 1: you know, manipulate the call and get that sound. But 179 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 1: aside from that, you know, you you learn a few 180 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 1: you know, calmus, you know estrus wines, challenge beagles, location bugles, um, 181 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:10,200 Speaker 1: and get them down. That that's all you're gonna need 182 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 1: to head into the oak woods and find success. In 183 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 1: my opinion, yeah, I couldn't agree more. Jason, I think 184 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:20,479 Speaker 1: you're spot on the second question from the listeners, Um, 185 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 1: what is your approach when trying to call in a 186 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 1: herd bowl? It's fine, and I'm gonna twist us a 187 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 1: little bit or put some direction to that as far 188 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 1: as what you're calling strategy, like if you could, you know, 189 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 1: bottle up your strategy, put it in a little cookie 190 00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:37,079 Speaker 1: cutter approach. Um, give us, give us that answer. Yeah, well, 191 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 1: I think when you you mentioned mimicry earlier, Jason, Um, 192 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 1: you know you know my approach when it comes to 193 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:47,840 Speaker 1: herd balls. I mean, number one, you've got the problem 194 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 1: with with calling sideline bowls or spikes or something like that. Uh, 195 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 1: you know, to where those balls come in. And then 196 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 1: you you know, you've got to kind of, at least 197 00:09:57,640 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 1: in my opinion, kind of tone it down a bit 198 00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 1: or ut up until they kind of move off, so 199 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:03,840 Speaker 1: you don't so you don't spook them and they bump 200 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 1: the herd and you know, off they go. But you know, 201 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 1: I think for me, I think the most important thing 202 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 1: is to get in close and just get aggressive with them. 203 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:18,960 Speaker 1: You know, if that herd bull as a herd bull 204 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 1: for a reason, and if you if you're really shy 205 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 1: and tivid with that bull and you keep a distance 206 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 1: from him, he's he's not going to pay you any 207 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 1: attention at all. So until you get up close enough 208 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:35,600 Speaker 1: to where that bull thinks you're a threat, and you 209 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 1: can actually you know, make some sounds that that gives 210 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 1: him the impression that that you know, you're moving in 211 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 1: on his herd and you're you know, there's a chance 212 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:47,840 Speaker 1: you're gonna take his cous from him. You're not gonna 213 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 1: have much success. So in my opinion, you know, locating 214 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 1: that herd, getting in close, trying to mimic what he's 215 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 1: what he's saying. Uh, you know, sometimes they'll get in 216 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 1: there close and and and do some do some raking, 217 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:04,080 Speaker 1: and a lot of times I'll be enough to just 218 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:05,840 Speaker 1: you know, push him over the edge and have him 219 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 1: come in. But getting in there thrown out a challenge vehicle, 220 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:13,319 Speaker 1: maybe a bulls calling cows vehicle, something that that gives 221 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 1: him the impression that that you're a threat is is 222 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:20,679 Speaker 1: probably your best option. Yeah, I'm I'm on the same 223 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 1: page with you. There's well Tony Um. Yeah. I always 224 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:26,320 Speaker 1: use the analogy I think I've already used on the podcast, 225 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:28,440 Speaker 1: but it's always worth kind of you know, painting the 226 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 1: picture again. You know, I always try to try to 227 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 1: picture like if you were sitting at the back of 228 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:35,680 Speaker 1: a restaurant with your wife having you know, a nice 229 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 1: dinner whatever it may be, and somebody walks in the 230 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:41,440 Speaker 1: front door and yells at you like, hey, mr, I'm 231 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 1: gonna whoop your butt. I'm coming to take your wife, 232 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:45,319 Speaker 1: you know, because that's basically what we're doing out in 233 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 1: the Elk woods. You would be you'd have the ability 234 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 1: to take your wife and maybe go out the back door, 235 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 1: you know, defend, you know, whatever you need to do, 236 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 1: you know, try to avoid the situation. Right. But if 237 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 1: that same person or elk doesn't say anything to you 238 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:01,560 Speaker 1: and tell you, you know, gets right to the edge 239 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:04,320 Speaker 1: of your table, they've now taken away that like fight 240 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 1: or flight opportunity to even You've now got like fight 241 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:09,839 Speaker 1: to deal with, right, that's all all you have left. 242 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:13,880 Speaker 1: And so yeah, very aggressive, get very very close. Um. 243 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:17,439 Speaker 1: One thing I've always noticed, uh, you know, the majority 244 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 1: of her both some of them come in all sorts 245 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:21,960 Speaker 1: of piste off. After you get close, get tight, you know, 246 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:25,440 Speaker 1: do some challenge beagles, um whatever it may be. Um, 247 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:27,480 Speaker 1: you know, there are some that are just like, well 248 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 1: that was easy. It shouldn't have been that easy. But 249 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:31,320 Speaker 1: there are ones that are you know, they won't beagle, 250 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 1: you know, right after your vehgle they'll maybe veagle ten 251 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:36,560 Speaker 1: seconds later, and it just kind of frustrates me because 252 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 1: it's like, well, hey, what you know, answer me, I 253 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:40,680 Speaker 1: just made a bveagle. You obviously could hear me, but 254 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:43,640 Speaker 1: you're kind of just ignoring me. You're you're doing your 255 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 1: own thing. And on those sorts of bowls, I always 256 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 1: believe that I can go in and turn the temperature 257 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:52,559 Speaker 1: up on that bowl. He's kind of lazy, He's kind 258 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:54,720 Speaker 1: of lacks a daisical and his veagling. He doesn't really 259 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 1: seem to care that I'm in the area, and I 260 00:12:57,400 --> 00:13:01,440 Speaker 1: typically my mind kind of arts to put that bowl 261 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:03,840 Speaker 1: in the category of probably an older bull. You know, 262 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 1: he's not responding to everything. He's not he doesn't have 263 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 1: a care in the world. He doesn't care if I 264 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:10,559 Speaker 1: walk into his herd because he's gonna whip my butt 265 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:14,080 Speaker 1: when I get there, you know. So he's a little 266 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 1: a little more relaxed in his responses. And those are 267 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 1: those elk that you know, those bulls. I want to 268 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:22,640 Speaker 1: get in close and I want to slowly turn the 269 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:25,679 Speaker 1: temperature up, like just annoy him. I want to pester him, 270 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 1: and I wanna That's kind of what's going through my head. 271 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 1: That if we play this game of pestering him enough 272 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:33,080 Speaker 1: that we can eventually turn the temperature up and you know, 273 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:36,560 Speaker 1: hopefully call him away from his herd. Um. It's just 274 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:40,080 Speaker 1: very very tough. We're reversing nature here. Uh. You know, 275 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:42,200 Speaker 1: a bull doesn't want to leave his cows his hair, 276 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 1: and whether it's two or three cows, whether it's ten 277 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:47,319 Speaker 1: or fifteen, he's got his for sure thing. And we're 278 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 1: trying to reverse nature by you know, he beagles for 279 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:53,200 Speaker 1: you know, and his beagles are allowed for a reason 280 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:54,959 Speaker 1: like that's to announce to the cows like hey, I'm 281 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:57,840 Speaker 1: over here, come join us, versus us trying to reverse 282 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:00,120 Speaker 1: that and say hey, we're one lonely cow over or 283 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:03,520 Speaker 1: leave your other fifteen cows, or we're one bowl over here, 284 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 1: leave your fifteen cows to come check us out. Like 285 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:08,440 Speaker 1: that's that doesn't make a lot of sense. Um, So yeah, 286 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 1: get close, you get aggressive, um, and and try to 287 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:14,840 Speaker 1: turn the heat up on that bowl. Is kind of 288 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:16,839 Speaker 1: what's going through my head is when I know it's 289 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 1: a hurd bull. Yeah, I agree that those bulls that 290 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 1: have a lot of confidence, like like you said that 291 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 1: that just like just like in a you know, human nature. 292 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:29,520 Speaker 1: You get some guy that that that's confident in his abilities, 293 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 1: and and you know he's going to kick your butt. 294 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:35,200 Speaker 1: Like like you said, you know, what's what's the reason? 295 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 1: What why why should he go and and fight you? 296 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 1: Why not make you come to him and actually have 297 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 1: him get a visual of you or at least that's 298 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:47,120 Speaker 1: I mean, that's going through his mind. Right, He's gonna 299 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 1: stay here with his cows until he sees sees you, 300 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 1: and and it can acknowledge that you're a threat. But 301 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 1: you know, I've I've taken one thing that has worked 302 00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 1: for me in the past two is you know, you 303 00:14:57,400 --> 00:14:59,880 Speaker 1: get those bulls that that just you know, they're kind 304 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 1: antagonistic and they just they you know, they'll they'll bi 305 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:05,440 Speaker 1: vehicle back at you, but but they kind of stay 306 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 1: off in the distance, just around their cows. And I've 307 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 1: taken off and and just ran at them and and 308 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: just you know, screaming my head off at him, thinking 309 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 1: that okay, here he comes, you know, and and sometimes 310 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 1: just the sound of you running through the brush at 311 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 1: that bowl. Now, you know, on the coast here, it's 312 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 1: it's probably more obvious that you're you know, you're running 313 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 1: through all that stuff trying to get to them, but 314 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 1: and and they can't see you coming, so maybe it's 315 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 1: a little easier that way than it is in some 316 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:33,640 Speaker 1: of the open country. But you know, that's a that's 317 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 1: a technique that I've used before too, that that's that's 318 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 1: been effective. Yeah. Yeah, when you close that distance faster 319 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 1: than they expect, that kind of puts them on tilt. 320 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 1: And ye can can work work really well there. So 321 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 1: if any of you once again have any of your 322 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 1: own questions you want us to try to answer, to 323 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 1: tackle or give our own spin, make sure to email 324 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 1: us at ct D at helps game Calls dot com. 325 00:15:55,520 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 1: Will do our best to give you an answer. Now 326 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:09,840 Speaker 1: we're going to kind of jump into the discussion here 327 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 1: for today. And I promised I didn't pick you Tony 328 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:15,160 Speaker 1: to go over this, but you know these topics. But 329 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 1: what we're gonna talk about today is a lot of 330 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 1: the mistakes that we've made over time. We've mentioned it before. 331 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 1: We kind of came from, you know, the times where 332 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 1: there wasn't you know, multiple elk hunting courses or elk 333 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:31,560 Speaker 1: hunting information on the internet. Um, there weren't even forums 334 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 1: and stuff like I got on the internet to you know, 335 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:36,720 Speaker 1: check my emails back when when I started to learn 336 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 1: to elk hunting. UM. You know, so we we learned 337 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 1: a lot on our own and and a lot of 338 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 1: that came from trial and air. So today I'm just 339 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 1: going to kind of go through, you know, some of 340 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 1: the major mistakes we made early on, or some of 341 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 1: the same mistakes that we made over and over. And 342 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 1: we were talking a little bit before the podcast, UM, 343 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 1: some of the mistakes that we're still making that UM, 344 00:16:56,960 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 1: you know, for one reason or another, we we think 345 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 1: one way or something happened one way in the past, 346 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:04,399 Speaker 1: and UM, we make a mistake and it doesn't turn 347 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:05,919 Speaker 1: out in our favors. So we're gonna kind of go 348 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 1: through some of that, UM, walk through mistakes we've made 349 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 1: and kind of see, you know, how you've learned from that. 350 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 1: And and the other thing I want to I want 351 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:16,920 Speaker 1: to preface this whole conversation a little bit tony with 352 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 1: it is l cunning. We're doing our best to try 353 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:22,879 Speaker 1: to put you know, our experience together, but I am 354 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:25,399 Speaker 1: humbled every year that what has happened in the past, 355 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 1: what's happened, you know, multiple times in the past, then 356 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 1: very you know, the next twenty setups are callin's, it 357 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 1: may fail. And so even I don't want to call 358 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:37,640 Speaker 1: these low odds, you know, or everything we do has 359 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:39,960 Speaker 1: low odds, but there's always a risk that these are 360 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:43,160 Speaker 1: wild animals. It's not always gonna work like it did 361 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:47,119 Speaker 1: last time or the time before, shoot, even ten times ago. Um. 362 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:49,920 Speaker 1: You know, you got to try to read the situation, 363 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 1: make your best judgment call, and go with it. Um. 364 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:55,640 Speaker 1: And so we're gonna we're gonna give some information here, 365 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 1: but but I wanna, you know, preface it with it's 366 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 1: not gonna work, you know, fellproof every time. We're always 367 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:06,400 Speaker 1: gonna screw up. Yeah, elk or unpredictable. If they were predictable, 368 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 1: this would be easy. Yeah. If they couldn't smell, if 369 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:12,760 Speaker 1: they were blind, and if they did the same thing 370 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:15,360 Speaker 1: every day, we'd be all right, yeah, all right, I'd 371 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 1: be a lot more successful. Yeah. So yeah, we're gonna 372 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:20,960 Speaker 1: talk about, um, some of the knowledge we've gained through 373 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 1: the mistakes we've made over the years. And uh, I 374 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:26,200 Speaker 1: would like, as I mentioned, some of the repeat mistakes 375 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 1: I personally have made over the years. So we're gonna 376 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:31,679 Speaker 1: start off with scouting. UM. I used to do a 377 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 1: whole lot more scouting than I do now. But some 378 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:38,480 Speaker 1: of the mistakes, you know, we we made scouting. Go 379 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:40,800 Speaker 1: ahead and give some of your you know, scouting mistakes, 380 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:42,159 Speaker 1: and they'll kind of fold that up with some of 381 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 1: the stuff that you know, I did really really wrong 382 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:46,919 Speaker 1: and some of the stuff I do now that I 383 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:48,840 Speaker 1: think is you know, makes a lot more sense now 384 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:53,199 Speaker 1: they think about it. Yeah, I think, well, I mean, 385 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 1: I don't know if this is a mistake or's just 386 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 1: a matter of not having enough time. But you know, 387 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:00,040 Speaker 1: you mentioned not not doing as much or you to 388 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:01,720 Speaker 1: do a lot more scouting than what used to now, 389 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 1: I think I think just being out in the woods 390 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:08,800 Speaker 1: more frequently on a regular basis. Um, you know that 391 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:11,359 Speaker 1: that can help. But you know I I do. I 392 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:15,920 Speaker 1: do use online maps, and I will I'll get online 393 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 1: and I'll look at areas where I think will hold elk. 394 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:22,359 Speaker 1: You know, it's the cover, the feed, the water, you know, 395 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 1: betting areas likely likely betting areas, and uh, you know, 396 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:32,439 Speaker 1: I'll get out there before the season, and you know 397 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:34,480 Speaker 1: that that's that's one of the problems as you go 398 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:36,640 Speaker 1: out and you scout before the season. Well, these bulls 399 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 1: don't have cows yet, So who's to say they're going 400 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:42,439 Speaker 1: to be in that area when you get there, and 401 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 1: then you know, there's all this sign when you get 402 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:48,280 Speaker 1: out there and you do your preseason scouting, and I 403 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 1: have fallen trapped to just because I know that the 404 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 1: elk are always there. I get there and they've moved on, 405 00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:58,439 Speaker 1: and I spend you know, kind of what we were 406 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:01,719 Speaker 1: talking about earlier. You spend too much time in an 407 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 1: area just because the elk were there, you know, a 408 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:08,879 Speaker 1: month before the season, or you know, I've been in 409 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:12,960 Speaker 1: units before that have been very productive, and you know, 410 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:15,120 Speaker 1: maybe you think you don't have to do as much scouting, 411 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 1: and you get there and you don't see sign, but 412 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 1: you keep hunting it because it's what you're familiar with, 413 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 1: instead of you know, branching out moving elsewhere. Um, you 414 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:28,879 Speaker 1: know that that's that's a huge mistake I've made in 415 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:34,800 Speaker 1: the past. Yeah, so I'm the same way. Scouting was 416 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:38,600 Speaker 1: almost a detriment to to my elk hunting when I 417 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 1: was younger, and all I'll kind of explained, we didn't 418 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:44,200 Speaker 1: hunt the mountains. I grew up hunting, you know, coastal Washington, 419 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:48,399 Speaker 1: clear Cut country, you know, Warehouser cuts every forty five years, 420 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 1: and so we have a it's a lot different than 421 00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:52,119 Speaker 1: the majority of people get to hunt. But what we 422 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:54,360 Speaker 1: would do in two thousand and eight nine, I said, 423 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 1: you know, I'm gonna go up in the mountains. I'm 424 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:57,720 Speaker 1: gonna go up in the Cascades. I'm gonna go do 425 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:00,640 Speaker 1: some mountain hunting off my back. And so we had 426 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 1: taken three or four different scouting trips into a wilderness area. 427 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:07,439 Speaker 1: We're seeing elk every time, lots of elk um And 428 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:09,359 Speaker 1: so what we did in between these scouting trips, in 429 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 1: between seasons, I would go home and like plan my 430 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 1: entire hunt from the computer based on what we were 431 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 1: seeing out there, and when I got my feet on 432 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:20,080 Speaker 1: the ground, for some reason in my mind, that hunt 433 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:22,960 Speaker 1: was going to work out at some point. Versus if 434 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 1: I hadn't have went and scouted and just went back 435 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:27,480 Speaker 1: into that area, I would be more fluid and I 436 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 1: would have to go find where those elk where I 437 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:31,680 Speaker 1: wouldn't you know, I wouldn't go to where I thought 438 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 1: the elk were gonna be. And so that was one 439 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 1: of the big um, you know, issues with scouting and 440 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:37,679 Speaker 1: how it would kind of backfire on me. Is I 441 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 1: had a plan in my head on where I was 442 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:41,440 Speaker 1: going to kill the elk and how our morning hunts 443 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 1: would go and how our night hunts would go, and 444 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 1: it just didn't pencil out that way. Um. The other 445 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:50,639 Speaker 1: bad habit I had, uh you know, scouting, which is 446 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:52,800 Speaker 1: the same thing. On these hunts. We would go see 447 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 1: herds of a hundred elk, you know, on a high 448 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:57,119 Speaker 1: alpine basin. You know, the bulls would be off in 449 00:21:57,119 --> 00:21:59,919 Speaker 1: a different area. We'd have bull uh you know, all 450 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:02,760 Speaker 1: over our camera. As I would go look for elk 451 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 1: on my scouting trips, and as you just mentioned, um 452 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:09,120 Speaker 1: they that doesn't necessarily mean they're gonna be there, uh 453 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:11,359 Speaker 1: in in the fall when seasons open up. That doesn't 454 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:13,439 Speaker 1: mean that the bulls are gonna leave and go find cows. 455 00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:15,120 Speaker 1: And so one thing I would do is go look 456 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:17,720 Speaker 1: for elk, which now I tell people, don't go look 457 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 1: for go look for elk signs and and my favorite, 458 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:23,399 Speaker 1: UM signed to go find out there is one to 459 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:26,120 Speaker 1: two year old rubs, you know, whether they're their needles 460 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:29,880 Speaker 1: are all dropped or uh you know, if they've got 461 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:32,120 Speaker 1: red needles on them. I love to see that sign 462 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,679 Speaker 1: and I love to see multiple years of those rubs 463 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:37,520 Speaker 1: because what that lets me this, you know, figure out 464 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:39,720 Speaker 1: without even seeing an elk, is that they're running here 465 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:43,440 Speaker 1: year after year, you know, and and it's multiple years 466 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:45,760 Speaker 1: stacked on. So there's you know, there are some strange 467 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:47,560 Speaker 1: areas I've got into where it's like, you know, the 468 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 1: elk have swung in there for a year, They've swung 469 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 1: in there for a week, and you know, but but 470 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:54,119 Speaker 1: multiple years worth of rubs. It's like, all right, this 471 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:56,919 Speaker 1: is obviously an area they like to they like to go, 472 00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 1: they like to beat during the rut um. And then 473 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,119 Speaker 1: within those areas, I'm starting to look, you know, within 474 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:05,119 Speaker 1: where the beat in trails around those rubs, where the 475 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,359 Speaker 1: wallows and benches around those reubs, where they gonna be 476 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,880 Speaker 1: able to bed in close proximity to those ReBs, because 477 00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:12,119 Speaker 1: a lot of times the rubs are in fairly close 478 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,159 Speaker 1: proximity to their bedding areas. Um, it's kind of a 479 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,879 Speaker 1: little different than how I used to scout, but I 480 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:20,119 Speaker 1: want to find rubs first and then find some of 481 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:24,120 Speaker 1: these other features food cover the trails, the way they're 482 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 1: getting in and out of there, you know, wallows where 483 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,119 Speaker 1: they're gonna get their water and kind of planning that 484 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 1: hunt around there and then not scouting. I'm gonna go 485 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:34,359 Speaker 1: show up, uh you know, during season and and go 486 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 1: locate those elk and figure them out, versus you know, 487 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:41,200 Speaker 1: putting all my eggs in the basket from from scouting. Yeah, 488 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,119 Speaker 1: I've I've done the same thing, Jason. I. You know, 489 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,440 Speaker 1: we we've founded areas around around home here for years, 490 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:49,960 Speaker 1: and we know that the elk are always there, but 491 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 1: so do a lot of other people. And you know 492 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,160 Speaker 1: when they get even before the season, you get enough 493 00:23:56,200 --> 00:24:00,200 Speaker 1: guys out there scouting around, getting more humans sent in there, 494 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:04,359 Speaker 1: even some guys going out the preseason trying to you know, 495 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 1: calcular a bugle and uh, I mean how many times 496 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:10,200 Speaker 1: if if you used to if you used to hunt 497 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:11,920 Speaker 1: on the coast over a clear cut, how many times 498 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,160 Speaker 1: you've seen guys pull up in a in a pickup 499 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:16,919 Speaker 1: truck and bugle off a landing, you know, over a 500 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 1: clearer cut down into September or something. You start to 501 00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:23,200 Speaker 1: educate those bulls and and they get you know, they're 502 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,440 Speaker 1: not dumb animals. So I you know, I've made a 503 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 1: mistake of spending too much time where there's too much 504 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 1: pressure instead of moving on just because I know the 505 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,880 Speaker 1: elk are there, but they're so hard by that time 506 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:36,560 Speaker 1: to call in, they just they head for the deep dark, 507 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:40,159 Speaker 1: you know, rebroad patches and stuff that's so thick that 508 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 1: you can't get them out of there, and they don't 509 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,359 Speaker 1: come out until af you're dark. So uh, you know, 510 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:47,439 Speaker 1: I I've got to get to the point where you know, 511 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:51,680 Speaker 1: you you recognize that sooner and then move on to 512 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 1: a different area, hoping that you can get into some 513 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 1: different elk that are maybe not as haven't been quite 514 00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 1: as pressured. Yep. And and I fall I fell into 515 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 1: that same trap where you know, we would plan our hunt, 516 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:07,720 Speaker 1: um you know, we would pack in food, drop it off, 517 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:10,160 Speaker 1: and we would be locked into an area. And now 518 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,680 Speaker 1: I'm to the point where you know, people might call 519 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 1: me crazy. And and maybe if the ball was big 520 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:19,040 Speaker 1: enough for something that really kind of you know, struck 521 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:21,240 Speaker 1: my fancy and I really wanted to try to harvest 522 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:22,679 Speaker 1: a ball, I might stay. But if I get to 523 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 1: an area and you know the elk are there and 524 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:26,439 Speaker 1: they don't really want to play the game. We've all 525 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,640 Speaker 1: ran into those herds where it's just there, there's elk 526 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:31,440 Speaker 1: and I can see him and I can hear them, 527 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:33,399 Speaker 1: but they just don't want to play the game. I 528 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 1: even pull the plug on those those situations fairly quick. Uh. 529 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:39,399 Speaker 1: You know, similar to you, I grew up around home 530 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:42,680 Speaker 1: where the elk are in the same spots year after year. Uh. 531 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 1: It's a little different when you you go out of 532 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 1: state or you know, go south or or go east 533 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 1: from where we're at where, But but I'm in that 534 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,040 Speaker 1: same boat, like I want to go find find an elk. 535 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:55,879 Speaker 1: That's that's you know, reared up, rutting, you know, willing 536 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 1: to biggle at anything, and um, you know that's that's 537 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,639 Speaker 1: a that's that situation. And I'm looking for personally, is 538 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 1: to go find elk that are willing to play the 539 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:06,560 Speaker 1: game and play the game, you know, on my terms. 540 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: Um So yeah, that was kind of our our second 541 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 1: point that kind of rolled right out of scouting was 542 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 1: when you show up you don't find elk or you 543 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,640 Speaker 1: don't find elk that that want to play the game, 544 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,359 Speaker 1: and then not moving and kind of staying there. So 545 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:23,320 Speaker 1: I always recommend having multiple plans, or if you did 546 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:27,880 Speaker 1: your scouting right, you should have you know, ten different plans, 547 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:31,679 Speaker 1: like in in any situation. Um, you know, if we 548 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:33,960 Speaker 1: showed up like you said, on a landing or a road, 549 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:35,800 Speaker 1: or somebody got up before he and beat you to 550 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:40,160 Speaker 1: an area, I didn't have one little bit of anxiety. 551 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:42,679 Speaker 1: I didn't fret one bit. I just pulled up to 552 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:44,560 Speaker 1: you know, and I went to Spot B. You know, 553 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:47,159 Speaker 1: God willing, hopefully there's enough light that I can get there. 554 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 1: I'm a little nervous. But you know some people that 555 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:51,399 Speaker 1: that could that could script the whole day, you know. 556 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:53,719 Speaker 1: You know, I have no hunters around here that they 557 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:56,440 Speaker 1: would just probably go home, and that's not the right. 558 00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,399 Speaker 1: There's elk out there, um, you know that are that 559 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,800 Speaker 1: are ready to be hunted, and so always have you know, 560 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,359 Speaker 1: multiple backup plans, um. You know on x maps, you 561 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:07,719 Speaker 1: know all the mapping software that's out there, Like it's 562 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,879 Speaker 1: very easy to have, you know, a backup spot, a 563 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,680 Speaker 1: backup road, a backup canyon to to go run into 564 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:15,720 Speaker 1: if somebody else is in your spot or for some reason, 565 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 1: your plans don't you know, pan out like like you 566 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:21,120 Speaker 1: thought they would in your head. Yeah, and you don't 567 00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:22,639 Speaker 1: have to go very far on the on the on 568 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,760 Speaker 1: the coast range over here to get into an area 569 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 1: where there may be other elk that didn't hear you. Uh, 570 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:30,960 Speaker 1: you know, because it is so dense and the sound 571 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:33,960 Speaker 1: doesn't travel over here. You could have elk a drainage 572 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:37,960 Speaker 1: over uh and which isn't that far over here, and 573 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 1: they wouldn't have even heard you. So I think you're 574 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:43,320 Speaker 1: right moving moving to a different area. If you've got 575 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,400 Speaker 1: got a bunch of guys in an area, or you've 576 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:48,920 Speaker 1: got elk that just simply just stand there and bugle 577 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,399 Speaker 1: back at you, but never ever commit coming in and 578 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 1: you know, wanting to fight, then you have to make 579 00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 1: that decision early on to move on. And that that 580 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:00,720 Speaker 1: is a that's a mistake that I've made, and it's 581 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,160 Speaker 1: a mistake that I continue to make, especially if there's 582 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 1: a bowl in there that kind of you know, entices 583 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:09,480 Speaker 1: me to stick around it longer and try harder. Ye 584 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:28,480 Speaker 1: next mistake and this comes from me being very lazy. Um, 585 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 1: you know a little bit of being a rifle hunter 586 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,480 Speaker 1: that if I did, you know early on scare something 587 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:35,879 Speaker 1: that I was just gonna shoot the elk anyways, um, 588 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:37,679 Speaker 1: trying to cheat the wind and I'm gonna put you 589 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 1: on the spot here. I don't know if there's a 590 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:44,240 Speaker 1: writer or wrong answer. Um in your opinion, how far 591 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:45,960 Speaker 1: do you have to be away from an elk for 592 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,320 Speaker 1: them not the smellion? I know there's lots of different situations, 593 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 1: but um in your opinion, Like, if you're gonna make 594 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,280 Speaker 1: a circle around the elk, you know, the winds, the 595 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:55,960 Speaker 1: winds that you're back, how far? How big of a 596 00:28:56,000 --> 00:29:01,120 Speaker 1: circle you make? In Tony? Uh, you know, I don't 597 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,040 Speaker 1: know what the right answer is, Jason, But I I mean, 598 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 1: I make a as big a circle as I can 599 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:11,120 Speaker 1: and and still be able to make contact with them, 600 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:14,720 Speaker 1: you know, so so I can still hear them. Uh. 601 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:18,440 Speaker 1: You know, the wind, especially over here, doesn't seem to 602 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:22,280 Speaker 1: you know, blow in one direction very long. It just 603 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 1: swirls and swirls. So I want to I want to 604 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 1: try to get to the point where I'm I'm in 605 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:36,040 Speaker 1: a good position in terms of wind. But but you know, 606 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:38,760 Speaker 1: still be able to stay within a distance so that 607 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 1: I can hear them, because they could move off if 608 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:44,120 Speaker 1: I get out too far, and I wouldn't be able 609 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:46,040 Speaker 1: to know, you know, I wouldn't know that they've they've 610 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,480 Speaker 1: moved on by that time. And like I said, it's 611 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 1: so thick and dance over here. They don't move very 612 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 1: far before you can't hear them. So I mean it's 613 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:58,719 Speaker 1: you know, maybe even a couple of hundred yards if 614 00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,080 Speaker 1: I can still hear them, you know, in a situation 615 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:02,560 Speaker 1: if you're along a creek or something like that, to 616 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 1: be closer, because it's just um, you know, you you 617 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 1: wouldn't be able to hear him. Now if I am 618 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:10,320 Speaker 1: in a creek, or if I'm in a position where 619 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 1: i'm you know, I can get to a creek and 620 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:14,560 Speaker 1: I can work my way up that creek. I think. 621 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 1: You know, what I've noticed is that those creeks seem 622 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,440 Speaker 1: to push that wind kind of in your favor if 623 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,880 Speaker 1: you're walking up the creek. So sometimes it just depends 624 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:28,280 Speaker 1: on on where you're at in relations to the elk too. Yeah, 625 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,040 Speaker 1: And and I I always I've always just kind of 626 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,520 Speaker 1: thought three to four yards was kind of I wanted 627 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 1: to make a circle at least that big. And a 628 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,960 Speaker 1: lot of it depends on, you know, if it's going 629 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:39,600 Speaker 1: down into a creek or if it's all on the 630 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 1: same plane or the same hillside. Um. But now, and 631 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:47,920 Speaker 1: I I don't hunt the coast ranges, is you know, 632 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,120 Speaker 1: much at all anymore. I have it in the past, 633 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 1: But I think a lot of that comes from hunting 634 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:55,800 Speaker 1: the coast ranges that you can't here as well, so 635 00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:58,040 Speaker 1: you're a little bit more reluctant to just take off 636 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:01,360 Speaker 1: and get you know, without it outside of earshot from 637 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:04,680 Speaker 1: these elk um. And then I'm a very impatient hunter. 638 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 1: And so one of the things that I always going 639 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,680 Speaker 1: through my head is I know that that elk was 640 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,320 Speaker 1: just right there, you know, at that at that point 641 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:15,720 Speaker 1: in time. But if it takes me twenty or thirty 642 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,160 Speaker 1: minutes because I've now got to back up over a ridge, 643 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,520 Speaker 1: you know, go down the back side and come back over, 644 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:23,479 Speaker 1: I just I wait, you know, I'm always weighing that 645 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:25,960 Speaker 1: risk on how long is that going to take versus 646 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:30,520 Speaker 1: the risk of me getting winded before it ever gets started. Um, 647 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,720 Speaker 1: you know, the more patient me as I get older, 648 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,920 Speaker 1: I'm starting to you know, to hike back up the 649 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,960 Speaker 1: ridge and and make bigger circles and um, you know. 650 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:41,400 Speaker 1: And it depends on the time of day and where 651 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:43,040 Speaker 1: the elk are going, and what their plans are and 652 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:46,200 Speaker 1: how fast they're moving. You know, all that's going to 653 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,240 Speaker 1: to kind of tie in um to to just how 654 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,560 Speaker 1: directive approach and how risk I'm gonna be with with 655 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,520 Speaker 1: the wind. But that's one thing I made a whole 656 00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:57,680 Speaker 1: bunch of mistakes on is because I was lazy. Oh 657 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,360 Speaker 1: I think I can just go through here and then 658 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:02,560 Speaker 1: you know, the next thing you hear is a stampede 659 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,720 Speaker 1: of elk running in the opposite direction. Um. So now 660 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,880 Speaker 1: nowadays I try not to ever cheat the wind if 661 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:12,560 Speaker 1: at all possible, or have a very very high uh 662 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 1: you know, I've got a high certainty that I will 663 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,360 Speaker 1: not get winded. Um. You know, so that usually involves 664 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:22,360 Speaker 1: a five yards circle if if possible. Yeah, I mean, 665 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:24,720 Speaker 1: and that's a good point, Jason, because I you know, 666 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,720 Speaker 1: I'm so used to hunting the coast range that you 667 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 1: know when you do get over and you know on 668 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:32,480 Speaker 1: the east side where it's it's more open, maybe not 669 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,640 Speaker 1: quite as thick, and you can see further. Uh. I 670 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:39,400 Speaker 1: think that does give you the ability to increase the 671 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:41,800 Speaker 1: distance and still keep tabs on where they're at. So 672 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,440 Speaker 1: I think you're right. I mean, if if you can 673 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:47,440 Speaker 1: you know, three four or five hundred yards or something 674 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:50,560 Speaker 1: like that to to give you that buffer is good. 675 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:53,280 Speaker 1: And sometimes the train is gonna dictate that, right. I mean, 676 00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:55,440 Speaker 1: if you're if you're in broken up, if you're in 677 00:32:55,480 --> 00:33:00,080 Speaker 1: broken up terrain, um and and it's relatively close, U, 678 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:01,880 Speaker 1: it's easy to get over those ridges and kind of 679 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,080 Speaker 1: get around on the back side of and move around 680 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:07,840 Speaker 1: and maybe get get in closer round detected. Yeah. And 681 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,560 Speaker 1: and that kind of goes into our next point. Um. 682 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:12,920 Speaker 1: Our next mistake that I used to make a lot 683 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:16,880 Speaker 1: is once again cheating being seen. You know, I've always 684 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,400 Speaker 1: put the elk senses, you know, their noses number one, 685 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:22,320 Speaker 1: you know, not even a close race, but number two 686 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:26,360 Speaker 1: is their site. Um. They're pretty good at seeing, they 687 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:28,760 Speaker 1: can hear pretty good, but you know, there's natural sounds 688 00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:31,080 Speaker 1: out there, natural animals. So number two is I used 689 00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:34,200 Speaker 1: to always you know or kind of piggybacks on trying 690 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:37,000 Speaker 1: to cheat the wind, is trying to cheat their eyesight. Um, 691 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,320 Speaker 1: I would make an approach or as we just mentioned, 692 00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:41,360 Speaker 1: if we're over east where the vegetation is in this 693 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:43,880 Speaker 1: stick where me and you grew up hunting, or you 694 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:48,400 Speaker 1: still do hunt a lot, um, I always try to avoid, 695 00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:52,440 Speaker 1: you know, being seen by the elk um or even 696 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:54,680 Speaker 1: you know, unless we're a long ways away. Or I've 697 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,720 Speaker 1: got once again got confidence in it because I've found 698 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:00,600 Speaker 1: that every you know all that this isn't I was 699 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:02,880 Speaker 1: making when I used to think the elk Wutton sem 700 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,080 Speaker 1: me or I'm far enough away that the elk Winton care, 701 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,640 Speaker 1: we would get picked off and then it would be impossible. 702 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,319 Speaker 1: They might not bug you off like when um they 703 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:11,919 Speaker 1: win to you, but it would be very, very tough 704 00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:15,840 Speaker 1: to call those elkin to the point where, um, nowadays, 705 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:17,239 Speaker 1: I just don't want to be seen by the elk. 706 00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:18,840 Speaker 1: I want to surprise him. I want to do the 707 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:21,280 Speaker 1: shock and awe, you know, whether it's calling or whether 708 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,160 Speaker 1: it's being seen. Um, I just I want to avoid 709 00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:26,880 Speaker 1: being seen by elk, which you know once again, on 710 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,600 Speaker 1: the west side coastal stuff, it's easy because you got 711 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:33,360 Speaker 1: brush and vegetation and timber and jack firs everywhere. Versus 712 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:36,920 Speaker 1: east side it's a little tougher. Yeah, No, I completely agree. 713 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:40,040 Speaker 1: I in fact, I started I started carrying a decoy 714 00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:43,359 Speaker 1: for that reason when I'm in an open terrain. But 715 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,439 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, I've i've again I think, 716 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:48,440 Speaker 1: you know, not not every elk is the same amount, 717 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,839 Speaker 1: every situation is the same. I've called him. I've called 718 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:56,800 Speaker 1: him bulls before that that saw me or saw something 719 00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:58,880 Speaker 1: at least and maybe they didn't make out enough of 720 00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:02,520 Speaker 1: me to to really you know, give them pause. But 721 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:04,960 Speaker 1: you know they kind of run off of ways, like 722 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:07,680 Speaker 1: you say, and you can't call him back in. But 723 00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:11,319 Speaker 1: but you know, I think for the most part, you know, 724 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:15,240 Speaker 1: like you said, if if they win your games over uh, 725 00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:17,920 Speaker 1: if they see UH, they're gonna be a lot more 726 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,960 Speaker 1: cautious if anything else, Even even if they do kind 727 00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:23,080 Speaker 1: of still hang out there, they're gonna be a lot 728 00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:26,120 Speaker 1: more cautious because they saw something that wasn't quite right 729 00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:29,120 Speaker 1: in their mind, and they're gonna be very careful in 730 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:32,480 Speaker 1: terms of of you know what, what the how close 731 00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:37,440 Speaker 1: they get to whatever that perceived threat might be. For sure. 732 00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:40,799 Speaker 1: UM next is maybe you know, I get to go 733 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:42,480 Speaker 1: to a lot of sportsman shows, You got to talk 734 00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:45,000 Speaker 1: to a lot of hunters, get a lot of emails. UM, 735 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:49,280 Speaker 1: I feel that more mistakes may be made while setting 736 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,799 Speaker 1: up UM for that call in than than anywhere else. 737 00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:57,040 Speaker 1: And an archiol hunters, UM, you know, in the process 738 00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:59,680 Speaker 1: of trying to kill an elk Uh. You know, here's 739 00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:02,719 Speaker 1: kind of the atypical story is you know, I had 740 00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,760 Speaker 1: this bull fired up. I went and set up and 741 00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:07,840 Speaker 1: they're showing me a video on their phone. Is is 742 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:10,360 Speaker 1: we're going through this whole storytelling and what you'll end 743 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:12,239 Speaker 1: up seeing is a bull that hangs up at like 744 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:16,080 Speaker 1: seventy year eight yards and won't commit and and you'll 745 00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:18,200 Speaker 1: see a flash and or maybe the bull will stay 746 00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:21,240 Speaker 1: there for a little bit and then the bull loses 747 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:23,719 Speaker 1: interests and turns away, maybe bugles a little bit before 748 00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:25,880 Speaker 1: he goes off, kind of one last come show yourself, 749 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:29,320 Speaker 1: he'll turn away and leave. Um. It kind of piggybacks 750 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:32,120 Speaker 1: on what we said earlier is we're trying to reverse nature. 751 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:33,959 Speaker 1: And when that gets to the point where you should 752 00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:38,319 Speaker 1: see you, um, you better be within shooting range. Um. So, 753 00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:42,919 Speaker 1: when setting up, I feel that you need to set 754 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:46,440 Speaker 1: up either on vegetation breaks because a lot of times 755 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:48,839 Speaker 1: they will go from you know, thick cover if they're 756 00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:51,480 Speaker 1: coming out of their bedding, or you know, thinner cover 757 00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:55,120 Speaker 1: if they're going from food to betting. UM. I like 758 00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:57,680 Speaker 1: to set up within forty yards of either side of that. 759 00:36:57,719 --> 00:36:59,399 Speaker 1: And because what that gives me is when they get 760 00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,800 Speaker 1: to that chain engine vegetation, we're gonna have a shot, 761 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:05,480 Speaker 1: and then the same thing with terrain. If I want 762 00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:08,400 Speaker 1: to be within forty yards of that terrain break So 763 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:10,520 Speaker 1: when that bowl can finally get his eyes up to 764 00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:12,000 Speaker 1: a point where he should be able to see the 765 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:14,160 Speaker 1: cow with the bull calling to him, I want to 766 00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:17,160 Speaker 1: be able to, uh, you know, shoot at that time 767 00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:20,960 Speaker 1: because the time that bowl is gonna hold up at 768 00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:23,319 Speaker 1: that exact location, Like I could almost draw an X 769 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:26,560 Speaker 1: on the map, like that thing's gonna hold up here. Um. 770 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:29,040 Speaker 1: So that's one of the tips I have, you know, 771 00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:31,279 Speaker 1: when going to set up, you know, use the terrain 772 00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:33,920 Speaker 1: and use that vegetation to your advantage. Because there were 773 00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:37,440 Speaker 1: a lot of times, um, you know, especially like setting 774 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:39,720 Speaker 1: up on meadows. When I started hunting the high country stuff, 775 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:42,640 Speaker 1: I thought the best thing ever was to set up 776 00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:44,719 Speaker 1: right on the edge of a meadow, you know, be 777 00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,240 Speaker 1: it be in the timber, have a wide open meadow 778 00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:48,680 Speaker 1: out in front of me, because guess what, there's no 779 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:51,160 Speaker 1: breash in my way, there's no sticks that are gonna deflect, 780 00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,000 Speaker 1: and guess what, I very I think one time in 781 00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:55,960 Speaker 1: my life so far, I have got a bowl to 782 00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:58,080 Speaker 1: run wide open through a meadow and actually get to 783 00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:00,600 Speaker 1: the other side where we could have ever shot it. Yeah. No, 784 00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:03,040 Speaker 1: I've experienced the same thing and I've done the same 785 00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:05,960 Speaker 1: thing that numerous times. I mean, this is kind of 786 00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:07,600 Speaker 1: going back to what you said Earlily, kind of when 787 00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:13,840 Speaker 1: you when we started talking here, Jason, Um, you know it, 788 00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:17,799 Speaker 1: we didn't have the same kind of resources that are 789 00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:20,879 Speaker 1: available now, and and I didn't have anybody that really 790 00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:23,200 Speaker 1: taught me anything about our tree. And it was all 791 00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:26,520 Speaker 1: by trial and are so so. Not only did I 792 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:28,640 Speaker 1: set up on the edge of of clearings thinking that 793 00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:31,120 Speaker 1: I was going to call a bull and across an 794 00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:34,960 Speaker 1: open meadow, but you know I would I would set up, 795 00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:39,200 Speaker 1: you know, going back a long time now, I didn't 796 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:41,640 Speaker 1: want that help to see me, so I'd actually set 797 00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:44,879 Speaker 1: up behind a bush or a tree or something like that, 798 00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:47,879 Speaker 1: and thinking that that that elk was gonna maybe walk 799 00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:49,560 Speaker 1: past me and I was going to get a shot. Well, 800 00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:52,040 Speaker 1: I mean that that just doesn't happen, right, I mean, 801 00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:55,520 Speaker 1: trust your camel, get in front of getting get in 802 00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:57,799 Speaker 1: front of the tree or the brush or something like 803 00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:00,400 Speaker 1: So you've got open lanes and for me over here 804 00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:02,840 Speaker 1: on the coast, it's because it is so thick. It 805 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,120 Speaker 1: is more about terrain. Uh. You know, I've I've called 806 00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:08,600 Speaker 1: you know, I've set up in the wrong place many times, 807 00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:12,160 Speaker 1: and you you call a bull in and they come 808 00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:14,919 Speaker 1: up over this little rise and they get up there 809 00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:17,840 Speaker 1: just far enough to where they can peek over that 810 00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:21,160 Speaker 1: that little riser and look and see, and you've got 811 00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:25,479 Speaker 1: no shot at all. So you know you're exactly right 812 00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:30,359 Speaker 1: getting up there, uh, where you're going to have an 813 00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:34,160 Speaker 1: open shot. Not only not only with you know, open 814 00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:36,920 Speaker 1: shooting lanes at least on the coast range, but having 815 00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:40,960 Speaker 1: having that opportunity to be in an area where that 816 00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:43,200 Speaker 1: bull isn't going to hold up, you know, do do 817 00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:46,279 Speaker 1: some calling and and get up there a ways so 818 00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:49,760 Speaker 1: that that bowl doesn't you know, pinpoint your location and 819 00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:53,840 Speaker 1: and that way you've got an opportunity there. Yeah. I 820 00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:56,560 Speaker 1: I can still remember the very first year I ever 821 00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:58,439 Speaker 1: archery hunted, and you were talking a little bit about 822 00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:01,480 Speaker 1: setting up in the brush. I was super inexperienced, and 823 00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:03,440 Speaker 1: I thought, Hey, the best place to be is the 824 00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:05,239 Speaker 1: jump in this pile of brush. I you know, for 825 00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:07,719 Speaker 1: some reason, I remember there being some BlackBerry briers, you know, 826 00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:10,399 Speaker 1: just finishing out, and it was just a tangled mess 827 00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:14,080 Speaker 1: that we have here on the coastal, you know, vegetation, 828 00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:16,680 Speaker 1: and you know, the last thing you think about is 829 00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:20,640 Speaker 1: that you're gonna have, you know, whatever of arrow hanging 830 00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:22,520 Speaker 1: out the front of your bow that you can't move 831 00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:24,719 Speaker 1: and and you can be as careful as you want, 832 00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:26,960 Speaker 1: but that dang arrow was like getting wrapped up and 833 00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:29,040 Speaker 1: then the broadhead gets hung up on something and you 834 00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:31,800 Speaker 1: can't move. So if you need to move, because unless 835 00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:34,600 Speaker 1: I just happened to be pointing in the right direction, 836 00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:36,160 Speaker 1: like you've got to figure out how to draw the boat, 837 00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:37,520 Speaker 1: you gotta figure out how to get it pointed in 838 00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:40,640 Speaker 1: the right direction. And yeah, from then on, like I 839 00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:42,759 Speaker 1: don't even similar to that. I don't even set up 840 00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:45,120 Speaker 1: on my knees anymore, Like I am. I am on 841 00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:48,040 Speaker 1: my feet at all times. Um, you know that I 842 00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:51,760 Speaker 1: will set up on my knees if if for some reason, 843 00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:54,080 Speaker 1: there's like a level of brush that you know, if 844 00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:56,000 Speaker 1: we're in big timber where the brush lines like at 845 00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:57,440 Speaker 1: three or four feet, and I don't want to shoot 846 00:40:57,440 --> 00:40:59,200 Speaker 1: through it, and I want to shoot under it. But 847 00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:00,879 Speaker 1: for the majority of the time, I'd say I'm setting 848 00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:03,400 Speaker 1: up all my feet being fairly mobile in front of 849 00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:05,600 Speaker 1: the brush or and you know, alongside of a big 850 00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:07,719 Speaker 1: tree is typically my favorite set up, you know, either 851 00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:10,200 Speaker 1: behind me or to my direction. That gives me a 852 00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:13,239 Speaker 1: little bit of coverage. Um and and yeah, so I 853 00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:15,920 Speaker 1: was Yeah, I learned the hard way on multiple balls 854 00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:18,200 Speaker 1: that first season of Do not set up in the 855 00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:21,080 Speaker 1: brush because they pick you off trying to move or 856 00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:24,120 Speaker 1: get a shot. Yeah, for sure. And and and you mentioned, 857 00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:26,759 Speaker 1: you know, setting up on your knees. I used to 858 00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:29,399 Speaker 1: do that too, because it's comfortable. You know, I could 859 00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:31,120 Speaker 1: get down there and I could stay that stay in 860 00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:34,160 Speaker 1: that position for a long time. But you know, those 861 00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:37,040 Speaker 1: bulls will come in from various directions. And and just 862 00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:39,279 Speaker 1: because you're calling to a bowl and you know where 863 00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:41,120 Speaker 1: that bulls at doesn't mean a bull is gonna not 864 00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:43,640 Speaker 1: gonna come in silent from a different direction. So you 865 00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:45,800 Speaker 1: have to be mobile, You have to be able to turn. 866 00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:49,520 Speaker 1: You have to get that that you know, whatever that 867 00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:52,319 Speaker 1: brushes or you know, sticks or twigs or whatever it's 868 00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:55,879 Speaker 1: on the ground, get it cleaned out so that when 869 00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:57,600 Speaker 1: you do have to move or you do have to 870 00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:00,200 Speaker 1: stand up, if you're knelt down, that you're not making 871 00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:03,040 Speaker 1: any noise when you do stand up, and and breaking 872 00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:05,160 Speaker 1: those branches off when you get into position and you've 873 00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:09,640 Speaker 1: got shooting lanes. You know, I was chuckling earlier because 874 00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:11,799 Speaker 1: you mentioned something. I thought your arrow getting hung up 875 00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:14,239 Speaker 1: in the brush. I can't tell you how many times 876 00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:17,799 Speaker 1: I've done that. You just not paying attention and that 877 00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:20,680 Speaker 1: broadhead catches something and it just it'll either pulled off 878 00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:23,719 Speaker 1: the string or it just clanks up against your eyes 879 00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:26,399 Speaker 1: or something. And and then you know your your hands 880 00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:31,480 Speaker 1: over because I heard it yep, yep, And um, you 881 00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:32,920 Speaker 1: know that that brings you. But you don't know where 882 00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:35,520 Speaker 1: the elks coming from. Um. I like to, you know, 883 00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:38,000 Speaker 1: visualize all my shooting lanes, Like if an elk is 884 00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:39,879 Speaker 1: to come in here and he goes left, right, right 885 00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:42,560 Speaker 1: to left straight at me, like where are my shooting lanes? 886 00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:45,239 Speaker 1: And then one thing I like to always, you know, 887 00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:47,759 Speaker 1: explain to people is and you know it mainly be 888 00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:49,399 Speaker 1: one or two times because you're gonna figure it out. 889 00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:52,560 Speaker 1: But I learned the hard way is a right handed shooter, 890 00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:54,440 Speaker 1: I can turn you know, we can all sit here 891 00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:56,520 Speaker 1: listen to this podcast. You can turn over your left 892 00:42:56,520 --> 00:43:00,840 Speaker 1: shoulder and I can turn eighty degrees, you know, almost 893 00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:03,080 Speaker 1: to my left, and I can get a decent shot 894 00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:05,160 Speaker 1: off that direction. But if you ask me to turn 895 00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:07,759 Speaker 1: about twenty degrees to my right and open up, you 896 00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:10,799 Speaker 1: know clockwise, I can't shoot anything over there. So I 897 00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:14,200 Speaker 1: learned really quick that I'm gonna put like my left shoulder, 898 00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:16,279 Speaker 1: if not even shade my back to where I think 899 00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:18,480 Speaker 1: that bowl is gonna come from. And then that gives 900 00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:21,120 Speaker 1: me the whitest ability is shooting. There's just little things 901 00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:23,040 Speaker 1: where you know, I don't have to move my feet 902 00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:26,640 Speaker 1: that way, I don't have to like change my stance. Um, 903 00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:28,400 Speaker 1: you know some of those things on shooting lanes, and 904 00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:31,040 Speaker 1: then you know, pick out multiple ones. I always recommend 905 00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:34,920 Speaker 1: take the time before you there are situations where elk 906 00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:36,759 Speaker 1: are coming fast and they're not giving you a lot 907 00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:39,080 Speaker 1: of time. But always try to range, you know, three 908 00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:41,319 Speaker 1: or four trees, not a bunch of them. Um, I 909 00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:44,360 Speaker 1: try to get and then try to draw some circles 910 00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:46,480 Speaker 1: and some zones out in front of me. But you know, 911 00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:48,680 Speaker 1: take the time, figure out your shooting lanes, what your 912 00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:50,840 Speaker 1: distances are going to be, and then kind of you know, 913 00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:55,040 Speaker 1: settle in there. Yeah, that's that's a good tip right there. 914 00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:59,279 Speaker 1: And then the biggest mistake. I feel we We've talked 915 00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:01,879 Speaker 1: about it up top on some of you know, calling 916 00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:05,600 Speaker 1: the herd bulls in. We've we've did this enough. We've 917 00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:08,640 Speaker 1: I'm sure you've called a bulling from a half mile away. 918 00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:11,600 Speaker 1: But the if you were to start, if you were 919 00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:14,239 Speaker 1: a betting guy, I'm going to bet that you would 920 00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:16,280 Speaker 1: want to get as close as possible before you started 921 00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:18,600 Speaker 1: calling or tried to call a bull in every time. UM. 922 00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:20,640 Speaker 1: And that's that's my biggest thing when people go to 923 00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:23,440 Speaker 1: set up as they don't get close enough. Um. As 924 00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:25,320 Speaker 1: much as I'd like to tell people, I call bulls 925 00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:28,280 Speaker 1: in from miles away, and you know, blah blah blah, 926 00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:31,360 Speaker 1: whatever it might be, the fact is, if I can 927 00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:34,240 Speaker 1: get within a hundred yards, I think I'm two times 928 00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:36,200 Speaker 1: as likely to call a bulling from a hundred yards 929 00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:38,240 Speaker 1: as I am from two hundred. And you know, four 930 00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:40,320 Speaker 1: times as likely to call it in from two hundred 931 00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:42,160 Speaker 1: as I am from three hundred. You know, it's it's 932 00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:46,120 Speaker 1: exponential the closer you get. And you know, I've always 933 00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:48,520 Speaker 1: joked joked about getting a T shirt made like a 934 00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:51,560 Speaker 1: short distance Elk Coller because we do a lot of 935 00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:53,239 Speaker 1: you know, we cover a lot of the ground with 936 00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:55,480 Speaker 1: our feet and only use those calls to do, you know, 937 00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:58,200 Speaker 1: to manipulate those elk and get them to travel very 938 00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:01,480 Speaker 1: very you know, short distance as hopefully. Yeah. No, I 939 00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:05,879 Speaker 1: I agree, I you know, I hear every year it's 940 00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:08,480 Speaker 1: either it's either guys will set up and you know, 941 00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:11,960 Speaker 1: in the brush somewhere and they're they're calling and that 942 00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:15,279 Speaker 1: bull is calling back at him, but but they never 943 00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:18,920 Speaker 1: close the distance. That bull will stand out there, you know, 944 00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:22,719 Speaker 1: a hundred yards or more and just bugle back and 945 00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:24,360 Speaker 1: forth at if if all you want to do is 946 00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:28,880 Speaker 1: just bugle, he's happy to do that. Or tree stand hunters. 947 00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:31,640 Speaker 1: I there's this one area that we hunted over easton, 948 00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:33,520 Speaker 1: Oregon where this guy sets up with a tree stand. 949 00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:36,520 Speaker 1: He'll sit up there and bugle his brains out, and 950 00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:38,920 Speaker 1: those bulls are bugling all the way around him, and 951 00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:41,239 Speaker 1: they just stay out there. He never gets down out 952 00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:43,480 Speaker 1: of his tree stand to to try to close the 953 00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:46,440 Speaker 1: distance on And like I said, those bulls, if if, 954 00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:48,480 Speaker 1: if you, if you're not perceived, is this some kind 955 00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:51,520 Speaker 1: of a threat, They'll just they'll just stand there and 956 00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:54,279 Speaker 1: and bugle at you. I mean, why would they why 957 00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:58,040 Speaker 1: would they want to come closer if you're no threat. Yeah, 958 00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:00,600 Speaker 1: it's you know, I've always told that if you don't 959 00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:03,480 Speaker 1: become the threat, you're literally just saying, hey, I'm over here, 960 00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:05,319 Speaker 1: and he's saying, hey, I'm over there. You know, I 961 00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:08,000 Speaker 1: think you guys are literally we're just part of the 962 00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:10,919 Speaker 1: game where it's just letting everybody know where that's that's 963 00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:15,759 Speaker 1: what they do every day. Yeah. Um. The next one, 964 00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:18,560 Speaker 1: which I feel is definitely a coastal thing. You know, 965 00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:22,800 Speaker 1: thick vegetation, thick timber, lots of brush, no real openings 966 00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:25,360 Speaker 1: unless you're above a clear cut or you know, on 967 00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:28,960 Speaker 1: a road system. Is calling too small? Um, let me 968 00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:31,839 Speaker 1: give me a little bit on kind of what your 969 00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:34,839 Speaker 1: thought is, you know, volume wise, and and you know 970 00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:37,000 Speaker 1: how you call to to elk out in the woods. 971 00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:40,040 Speaker 1: So so usually you know, first thing in the morning 972 00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:43,440 Speaker 1: when I'm out, you know, a hiking in the dark. Uh. 973 00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:46,920 Speaker 1: You know, bulls at least around here seem to be 974 00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:51,880 Speaker 1: way more vocal, uh in the dark because they feel safer. 975 00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:55,120 Speaker 1: So and I'll go out and throughout a locate bugle 976 00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:58,160 Speaker 1: and you know, if I get something to respond, then 977 00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:02,080 Speaker 1: I'll work my way that direct and until the sun 978 00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:04,000 Speaker 1: comes up, you know where you can see and you 979 00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:06,120 Speaker 1: can see your pins and if if you did come in, 980 00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:11,520 Speaker 1: you could actually have a good shot opportunity there. Um, 981 00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:15,279 Speaker 1: But you know, as thick as this stuff is, and 982 00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:18,360 Speaker 1: and you have to get close to them to be 983 00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:21,920 Speaker 1: perceived as that threat. And the closer I get, I 984 00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:25,480 Speaker 1: mean I will start out mimicking them and if that works, great, 985 00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:28,000 Speaker 1: you know, And I've had that work a number of 986 00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:30,200 Speaker 1: times where you mimke that bowl and they don't like 987 00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:33,200 Speaker 1: it and they come in. But if they don't, then 988 00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:35,480 Speaker 1: you're the one that has to make the move. Otherwise 989 00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:37,879 Speaker 1: they're just gonna stand out there and and you kind 990 00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:41,520 Speaker 1: of get in that game back and forth. But um, 991 00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:43,919 Speaker 1: you know, I I go in as close as I can, 992 00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:48,080 Speaker 1: and I'll rip off a challenge Google, I'll throw a 993 00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:52,480 Speaker 1: lip ball in there, uh you know, big, you know, 994 00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:55,319 Speaker 1: grunts and chuckles and just as loud as I can, 995 00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:58,719 Speaker 1: and and just start stomping on the ground and tearing 996 00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:03,160 Speaker 1: up brush. And I mean that's that's my strategy. And 997 00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:06,000 Speaker 1: I mean it does work. They do come in closer. 998 00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:07,960 Speaker 1: But you know a lot of times over here we 999 00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:11,239 Speaker 1: don't have all the greatest shooting lines, but but I 1000 00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:13,680 Speaker 1: I found that if if if you get in their 1001 00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:17,720 Speaker 1: face and and you get more volume out of that tube, 1002 00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:22,040 Speaker 1: and and that call that oftentimes is what kind of 1003 00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:25,760 Speaker 1: triggers that that reaction or that response for them to 1004 00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:29,120 Speaker 1: to finally say I've had enough and I'm coming in 1005 00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:32,440 Speaker 1: and we're going to fight. Yep. And and I got 1006 00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:35,120 Speaker 1: a couple of examples. So one reason when I'm locating, 1007 00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:37,759 Speaker 1: I want to call big is my purpose for letting 1008 00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:39,880 Speaker 1: those located bugles, as we just said, is it's a 1009 00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:41,960 Speaker 1: game of hey, I'm over here, and then you hopefully 1010 00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:44,560 Speaker 1: you know, you know, waves across the at the canyon like, hey, 1011 00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:46,520 Speaker 1: I'm over here. You know, I'm just I want that 1012 00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:49,600 Speaker 1: vehicle to reach as many elk in that canyon as possible. 1013 00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:51,799 Speaker 1: You know, people can call me lazy or whatever, but 1014 00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:53,680 Speaker 1: I've already put the time into walk that ridge, or 1015 00:48:53,719 --> 00:48:56,120 Speaker 1: walk that trail system, or bike in a certain road. 1016 00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:59,879 Speaker 1: I might as well let my bugle covers absolutely much 1017 00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:03,160 Speaker 1: you know, ground as possible. I don't feel and you know, 1018 00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:06,759 Speaker 1: you can overlocate um. You know, if they're there, they'll 1019 00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:08,800 Speaker 1: answer you. If not, then you'll keep driving. Buy or 1020 00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:10,360 Speaker 1: if they heard you and didn't answer, then it is 1021 00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:13,560 Speaker 1: what it is. We didn't necessarily, you know, educate them 1022 00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:16,520 Speaker 1: because they didn't smell us, they didn't see us. Um. 1023 00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:19,480 Speaker 1: You know, now now driving up and and and calling 1024 00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:21,600 Speaker 1: a different thing, I think that can educate elk. But 1025 00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:24,440 Speaker 1: so we're calling as big as possible. And then the 1026 00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:26,960 Speaker 1: other thing is, you know, similar to you, I'm fortunate 1027 00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:29,120 Speaker 1: to get the hunt with some great colors and what 1028 00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:32,120 Speaker 1: I would consider some very loud colors at the very 1029 00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:35,520 Speaker 1: high end. Um. You know, we don't set up the 1030 00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:39,080 Speaker 1: color too far back. He's usually you know, maybe thirty 1031 00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:42,080 Speaker 1: yards max. But I've got colors, you know, if I'm 1032 00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:45,200 Speaker 1: shooting and not doing any calling, uh, that are cranking 1033 00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:48,080 Speaker 1: on bagles as big as they can be. And and 1034 00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:50,440 Speaker 1: it's not that loud compared to the real look that's 1035 00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:52,520 Speaker 1: coming in. You know that that elk can rip off, 1036 00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:55,640 Speaker 1: you know, a bigle at fifty yards. And my buddy, 1037 00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:58,160 Speaker 1: who I thought was a loud color, doesn't sound half 1038 00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:00,440 Speaker 1: of you know, half is that big half the volume. 1039 00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:02,759 Speaker 1: And so when you're out there in the woods, no 1040 00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:04,400 Speaker 1: matter how loud you think you are, you're just not 1041 00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:06,480 Speaker 1: competing with the real thing. You know, you don't got 1042 00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:09,120 Speaker 1: the lung capacity of a nine pound animal or eight 1043 00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:12,520 Speaker 1: underd pound animal um. And so in my opinion, we 1044 00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:15,600 Speaker 1: call big um for locating to reach as much ground. 1045 00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:17,480 Speaker 1: And then when we're calling the elk, we call big 1046 00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:20,080 Speaker 1: so that they you know, once again, we're trying to 1047 00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:22,040 Speaker 1: be a threat and we want to be as big 1048 00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:24,080 Speaker 1: and nasty as we can, and I think we still 1049 00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:28,359 Speaker 1: fall short the majority of the time. Oh absolutely, I mean, 1050 00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:32,759 Speaker 1: I mean you're exactly right. Are our lung capacity and 1051 00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:36,400 Speaker 1: our diaphragm just cannot make the same sounds or produce 1052 00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:39,520 Speaker 1: the same volume of a bull can. So I personally 1053 00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:42,080 Speaker 1: don't think that you can be too loud. I go 1054 00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:45,840 Speaker 1: through I go through a lot of diaphragms each season 1055 00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:49,040 Speaker 1: because number one, I ugle a lot, and secondly, when 1056 00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:52,239 Speaker 1: I do, I bugle hard and loud, so there's a 1057 00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:54,160 Speaker 1: lot of volume going through there. I try to hit 1058 00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:57,960 Speaker 1: those high ringing notes that that just, you know, pierce 1059 00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:00,759 Speaker 1: your ear. And I want them to know that that 1060 00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:03,799 Speaker 1: I'm number one, I'm here, number two, I'm close, and 1061 00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:05,600 Speaker 1: I'm about to get in your face and we're about 1062 00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:08,960 Speaker 1: to have a fight. And and that's that's the goal, right, 1063 00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:11,360 Speaker 1: I mean, you're not out there playing paddy Cake with 1064 00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:14,600 Speaker 1: these bulls. You want to again be perceived as that threat, 1065 00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:17,319 Speaker 1: get in their face, get as loud and mean and 1066 00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:21,520 Speaker 1: nasty as you want to or you can, and and 1067 00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:25,719 Speaker 1: that's that's the goal. Yeah, and we're onto. You know, 1068 00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:28,840 Speaker 1: in my opinion, the biggest mistake I made, which we 1069 00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:32,800 Speaker 1: I understand, Um, you know, not everybody has unlimited time 1070 00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:35,600 Speaker 1: or can be out there every day, is I didn't 1071 00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:39,000 Speaker 1: put enough time in. Um. You know, and I'm gonna 1072 00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:42,160 Speaker 1: say this is is It's not a mistake necessarily, but 1073 00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:43,880 Speaker 1: it's one of the things that I've been able to 1074 00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:47,360 Speaker 1: attribute to success and continued success is I spend a 1075 00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:49,160 Speaker 1: lot of time out there, and for a guy that's 1076 00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:53,560 Speaker 1: supposed to know what he's doing, Um, there are times 1077 00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:55,920 Speaker 1: where I can do everything that I think is right 1078 00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:58,640 Speaker 1: and still screw up day after day after day. And 1079 00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:01,120 Speaker 1: so the only thing that's worked on my side is 1080 00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:03,839 Speaker 1: the you know, the additional time that that I get 1081 00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:07,280 Speaker 1: to go again tomorrow or the following day. Um. So 1082 00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:09,440 Speaker 1: you know, if if you you know, I was there, 1083 00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:11,360 Speaker 1: I was a weekend warrior for a long time, or 1084 00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:13,239 Speaker 1: a three day weekend guy. You know, it was all 1085 00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:15,680 Speaker 1: I could pull off and then um, you know, started 1086 00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:17,080 Speaker 1: to be able to get a week to do it. 1087 00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:19,600 Speaker 1: And I found the you know, the more time I 1088 00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:24,040 Speaker 1: could put towards it, obviously, the more success I found. Um. 1089 00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:26,360 Speaker 1: But that's kind of the last thing is is you know, 1090 00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:29,800 Speaker 1: if you don't have time, um, it just everything becomes tougher, 1091 00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:32,160 Speaker 1: you know, the situations have to work out, you know better. 1092 00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:35,480 Speaker 1: And and yeah, you know, as you said, Tony, you're 1093 00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:37,960 Speaker 1: you're you know, taking two weeks off hunting all the weekends, 1094 00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:40,359 Speaker 1: you know, nights after work. Um. I think one thing 1095 00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:43,200 Speaker 1: that people don't realize is people that are finding success. 1096 00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:45,640 Speaker 1: You're in and year out, like any free time is 1097 00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:48,000 Speaker 1: being dedicated to trying to fill these tags. Because no 1098 00:52:48,040 --> 00:52:51,080 Speaker 1: matter how good you are, UM, nothings to guarantee when 1099 00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:54,239 Speaker 1: it comes to Elk Hunton, you know, And you're right, 1100 00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:56,120 Speaker 1: and it's just like it's like a lot of things 1101 00:52:56,160 --> 00:52:59,719 Speaker 1: in life, you know, Jason, is the more often you're 1102 00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:04,399 Speaker 1: out in the woods, that just increases your odds of 1103 00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:08,200 Speaker 1: of even incidental encounters. You know, it just happened to 1104 00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:10,440 Speaker 1: be set up in an area just you know, glass 1105 00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:12,160 Speaker 1: and you're watching and the bull looks out in front 1106 00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:15,000 Speaker 1: of you, you know, I mean that that's luck. I 1107 00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:18,319 Speaker 1: think doesn't happen to me very often. But just the 1108 00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:23,120 Speaker 1: fact that you're out there increases your chances of being successful. 1109 00:53:23,520 --> 00:53:25,759 Speaker 1: And it doesn't matter how good of a hunter you 1110 00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:28,280 Speaker 1: are or how much time you've put in and dedicated 1111 00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:33,759 Speaker 1: to this sport. You can't outthink and I elk, you 1112 00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:37,120 Speaker 1: can't second guess them. You're gonna make the same mistakes 1113 00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:41,399 Speaker 1: you're in and year out, and and just being persistent, 1114 00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:44,920 Speaker 1: not giving up, you know, going that extra mile when 1115 00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:47,920 Speaker 1: you think you know I'm done, I'm just I'm frustrated. 1116 00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:50,960 Speaker 1: I can't do this anymore, you know, push through it 1117 00:53:51,160 --> 00:53:54,319 Speaker 1: and just keep trying, because the only way you're going 1118 00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:56,160 Speaker 1: to be able to be successful is to be out 1119 00:53:56,160 --> 00:53:59,560 Speaker 1: there and and continue, you know, striving for what you 1120 00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:02,399 Speaker 1: love to do. You yep, And you know, I guess 1121 00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:04,399 Speaker 1: that would be my advice. Um. You know, you can't 1122 00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:07,640 Speaker 1: necessarily control how much vacation time or what you get. 1123 00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:09,920 Speaker 1: But you know, we we have guys around home that 1124 00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:12,239 Speaker 1: or you know, what I would consider weekend warriors. But 1125 00:54:12,239 --> 00:54:14,040 Speaker 1: I'll see him, you know, come in at nine o'clock 1126 00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:16,080 Speaker 1: in the morning, and then they go back out at Fortnite, 1127 00:54:16,120 --> 00:54:18,480 Speaker 1: like there are elk to be killed between nine and four, 1128 00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:21,280 Speaker 1: Like give it you're all you know, spend time, um, 1129 00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:23,080 Speaker 1: you know, figure out how to hunt the middle of day, 1130 00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:25,399 Speaker 1: like maximize your time out in the field. And uh, 1131 00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:37,000 Speaker 1: I think you're gonna find a lot more success in 1132 00:54:37,160 --> 00:54:39,880 Speaker 1: closing Tony. If you had to give one golden nugget 1133 00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:42,840 Speaker 1: to elk hunters out there, um to make them more successful, 1134 00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:48,279 Speaker 1: what would it be? You know? For me? Jason kind 1135 00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:50,360 Speaker 1: of gets back to what I was just saying. Um, 1136 00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:53,000 Speaker 1: you know, I'm fortunate enough to live in an area 1137 00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:56,160 Speaker 1: where you know, as soon as I get go from work, 1138 00:54:56,560 --> 00:54:59,680 Speaker 1: I can be in the woods in fifteen minutes. Um, 1139 00:54:59,719 --> 00:55:05,880 Speaker 1: So spending as much time as you can. Uh, you know, 1140 00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:10,480 Speaker 1: perseverance will get you there, you know, Uh, picking up 1141 00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:14,360 Speaker 1: some calls and and even if even in the off season, 1142 00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:20,000 Speaker 1: just keep practicing, keep practicing and and become more versatile 1143 00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:21,520 Speaker 1: of those calls so that when you're out there in 1144 00:55:21,560 --> 00:55:24,560 Speaker 1: the woods and you're trying to mimic those bulls, that 1145 00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:28,080 Speaker 1: you have more calls at your disposal, more tools in 1146 00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:31,239 Speaker 1: the toolbox, so to speak, so that when the when 1147 00:55:31,239 --> 00:55:35,839 Speaker 1: the opportunity arises, you can capitalize on that. That's that's 1148 00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:39,920 Speaker 1: a great tip, Tony. I really appreciate having you on. Um. 1149 00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:45,120 Speaker 1: Good luck this fall, and uh yeah, congrats congrats again 1150 00:55:45,160 --> 00:55:48,200 Speaker 1: on on the standings there at the World out Calling Championships. 1151 00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:51,040 Speaker 1: Another great showing by you and just kind of goes 1152 00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:54,560 Speaker 1: to show that you you you're pretty dang good. Well. 1153 00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:57,440 Speaker 1: I appreciate that, Jason very much, and good luck to 1154 00:55:57,480 --> 00:56:02,080 Speaker 1: you and and uh hopefully we can do this again sometime. Yeah, yeah, 1155 00:56:02,080 --> 00:56:04,359 Speaker 1: thanks a lot, good luck, Tony, and we'll catch up later, 1156 00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:16,320 Speaker 1: all right. Thanks Jason M.