1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:04,560 Speaker 1: I'm off my game today. No, you're not. People are 2 00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:06,400 Speaker 1: going to have to start making better content. I think 3 00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:07,920 Speaker 1: we're gonna be talking about this for a long time. 4 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:10,960 Speaker 1: When you program for everyone, you program for no one. 5 00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:13,040 Speaker 1: I think it's at we're purpose driven platform, like we're 6 00:00:13,039 --> 00:00:16,320 Speaker 1: trying to get to substance. How was that? Are you 7 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:20,079 Speaker 1: happy with that? This is marketing therapy right now? It 8 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 1: really is. What's up up? Laura Currency and I'm Alexa Kristen. 9 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 1: Welcome back at Lantia. Today on the show, we have 10 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:35,520 Speaker 1: Sarah Fisher, one of our favorites from Axios Media newsletter. 11 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 1: Sarah's going to walk us through what she sees for 12 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:41,559 Speaker 1: two and what you should be looking out for as 13 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: a marketer. Atlantia. We are back on the mic with 14 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 1: media reporter Sarah Fisher is in the building. Sarah, welcome 15 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 1: back to Atlantia. We missed you. How are you hi? 16 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:00,640 Speaker 1: I've missed you so much and I'm so grateful to 17 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:04,119 Speaker 1: be back. This is my favorite podcast. Oh my gosh, 18 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 1: that's saying a lot. We appreciate that. So, Sarah, five 19 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 1: years in, I think you were one of our first 20 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:14,120 Speaker 1: guests on Atlantia, dating back to can you believe it's 21 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:16,319 Speaker 1: been that long before we hear you jam on everything 22 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 1: happening in the industry. Would be great to get your 23 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 1: perspective reading within it. Wow, I can't believe it's been 24 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 1: five years since that first podcast. You guys, it's wild. Well, 25 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 1: i'd say before I joined actually as I had uh, 26 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 1: you know, jobs in a bunch of different companies and 27 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 1: both in the business and edit sides. And when I 28 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: was at CNN and two thirteen, I wrote a newsletter, 29 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 1: a daily newsletter for politics. And so when I think 30 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 1: about the evolution of creators and journalists in the news especially, 31 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 1: I think about that experience almost ten years ago compared today, 32 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:54,279 Speaker 1: and what it looked like was the star journalists didn't 33 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 1: have newsletters. They didn't have their own and operated channels 34 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: to communicate with their guts. That was rare. And if 35 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 1: they did have newsletters, they weren't personality driven. You weren't 36 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 1: you know, getting my insights as an analyst. I was 37 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:12,639 Speaker 1: just you know, delivering information to via email from CNN 38 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 1: servers and from CNNs brand. But you weren't tuning in 39 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 1: because of me. And to that end, you didn't have 40 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:23,239 Speaker 1: some stack and all these other outlets for journalists to 41 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 1: create their own brands. Fast forward almost ten years later, 42 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:31,639 Speaker 1: it's the complete opposite. Now you're seeing news companies intentionally 43 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 1: launching newsletters and oh no, products like podcasts, et cetera, 44 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 1: with journalists and their brands at the forefront. And that 45 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 1: pivot has empowered journalists want to make more money. You know, 46 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:47,800 Speaker 1: you were a much more valuable commodity as a brand 47 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 1: than you ever were, but to its empowered journalists to 48 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 1: really dive in two niches. And that's powerful and important 49 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 1: because we're human beings. You can't be an expert in everything, 50 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: but if you can be an expert in something, you 51 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 1: are able to command a really strong audience. It's part 52 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 1: of the reason why I love Atlantia, because you've become 53 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:12,799 Speaker 1: the authority in advertising and marketing, and that focus makes 54 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 1: you valuable to me professionally and in many cases personally, 55 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 1: I'm getting closen to voices of people who would want 56 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:21,360 Speaker 1: to mentor me. So that's been the biggest shift as 57 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:23,919 Speaker 1: a creator, and it's a very positive one at least 58 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:26,520 Speaker 1: the way I see it. You know, we have more opportunity, 59 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 1: Like I said, there's more opportunity to make money, and 60 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:32,359 Speaker 1: there's more opportunity to become an expertence something, and the 61 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 1: tools become so easy and so prevalent that you can 62 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: see yourself expanding. Sarah Fisher right, the brand, the journalists, 63 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 1: the point of view, um into lots of different areas. 64 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 1: In the future. Well, I have no plans to leave Accio, 65 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 1: so it for now, my brand extension is helping to 66 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: grow the media coverage for my company. And that's important 67 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 1: because is once we start launching subscription products in particular, 68 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 1: I am going to play a large role in helping 69 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 1: to drive sign ups for them. And so it's like 70 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 1: I'm expanding my brand doing TV hits, doing podcasts like this, 71 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 1: doing events, getting out there in kind of people in 72 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 1: order to expand the axiest brand. That's my goal for 73 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 1: the short, mid and potentially long term. I planned to 74 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:23,360 Speaker 1: be here for a while in the very very very 75 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 1: long term if I ever wanted to do something else. 76 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:29,600 Speaker 1: To your point, there's a million opportunities that didn't exist before. 77 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:31,360 Speaker 1: You know, you can easily start your own news letter, 78 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 1: you can easily start your own podcast, you can easily 79 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 1: start your own cable network. These days, it's crazy to 80 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:38,599 Speaker 1: see all these little networks pop up It's not in 81 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:40,480 Speaker 1: my short term plans at all, because I love where 82 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: I'm at, But I do feel like it's possible. And 83 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 1: I will say ten years ago it didn't feel possible. 84 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 1: You've got on the job at a big media company 85 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 1: or local news company and that was it. There was 86 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:53,840 Speaker 1: no opportunity to start your own thing unless you were 87 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 1: a really serious entrepreneur with big backing. And today there's 88 00:04:56,760 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 1: a lot more, you know, opportunity to be entrepreneurial. Are 89 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 1: you also looking at and reading what I would call 90 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:09,799 Speaker 1: more amateur you know, editorial and journalists more because of 91 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 1: the sub stacks we are truly at the giant rise 92 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 1: of the blogger. Yes, for very specific things, I do 93 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 1: go to very niche content creators because I know they're 94 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 1: focusing on it better than anyone, even if they're not 95 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 1: a massive media company. So, for example, Jacob Donnelly has 96 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 1: his Media Operator newsletter that also comes out on Tuesdays, 97 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:34,599 Speaker 1: and he works the morning grew. He's not trying to 98 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 1: be a media drinalist. He's just executive in the industry 99 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 1: who puts out this newsletter. And I find it very 100 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:43,279 Speaker 1: smart and has great insights, and so I read it, 101 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 1: you know, Another great example is Judge Lagoon. He is 102 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:50,919 Speaker 1: a subspect reporter. He focuses on the intersection of influence 103 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:55,040 Speaker 1: and power, and he does it so you know, well, 104 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:57,599 Speaker 1: and it's just a niche that he's the authority in 105 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 1: that that I'm reading, So you know, they're are definitely 106 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 1: independent voices that I'm paying intention too much more now 107 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 1: than I ever did. What's the trade off, Sarah and 108 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 1: going the independent route versus having the backing and infrastructure 109 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 1: of a media platform like Axios. And the biggest thing 110 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 1: is legal protections For me at least, I think having 111 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 1: a big news institution with lawyers is massively important because 112 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 1: there's so many legal liabilities when you're covering things, whether 113 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 1: their lawsuits or their allegations, etcetera. And then the other 114 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 1: thing is having the expertise of colleagues and other issue 115 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 1: areas to tap into. So, for example, and put a 116 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:43,600 Speaker 1: story up on the website about the um Chicago sometimes 117 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:47,719 Speaker 1: being acquired by Chicago's Poth media nonprofit. I worked with 118 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 1: our Axist local reporter in Chicago on the ground who 119 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 1: has worked at both of those outlets to put that 120 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:56,839 Speaker 1: out there. That is a very unique opportunity to dive 121 00:06:56,880 --> 00:07:00,280 Speaker 1: into that expertise. Another example is we've been trying to 122 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 1: study a lot of the psychology around this information and 123 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:05,920 Speaker 1: trying to understand how it's become a bigger media problem. 124 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:09,159 Speaker 1: I'll team with our science to do those stories. That's 125 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 1: a lot harder to do when you're just looking in aheadible. 126 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 1: How do you keep your competitive edge? And this may 127 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: be getting into a bit of the sarifici or secret sauce. 128 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 1: But for those who are out there thinking about going 129 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 1: out at the its side, hustle, main hustle, whatever the 130 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 1: case is, and starting to create, there's so much content 131 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 1: to consume, what's the edge? I think it's really important 132 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 1: to create shortcuts that work for you. For me, it 133 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 1: doesn't make sense to go to a coffee shop and 134 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 1: read tend print papers. For other people, I know Nora 135 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 1: o'donnald does this to read sort of physical print paper 136 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 1: with a highlighter and highlights it out. I'm somebody who 137 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 1: subscribes a lot too cloud source Wall Street blogs like 138 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 1: Motley Fool and seeking output because the alerts are really quick, 139 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 1: which is helpful for me, and I can get transcripts 140 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:00,160 Speaker 1: of currents called that's a short cut For me, I 141 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 1: subscribe to a lot of rs S feed so I 142 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 1: can kind of customize my podcast listening. I try really 143 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:09,120 Speaker 1: hard to create lists on Twitter so I can browse 144 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 1: through specific expertise at a specific moment. So for example, 145 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 1: when the Activision and Microsoft news came out, you know, 146 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 1: I'll go to a Twitter list of gaming experts. So 147 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 1: I've developed shortcuts that helped me cut through the noise 148 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 1: quick that worked for me. Those shortcuts aren't to be 149 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 1: the same for everyone, but I think it ordered to 150 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:30,240 Speaker 1: be the top of your game. Everyone's got to figure 151 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 1: out their own shortcuts. Sarah, you touched on a few 152 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 1: things that we want to go a little deeper with 153 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:39,280 Speaker 1: you on, one of which is Axios is big bet 154 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 1: and what I loved, by the way, when Jim Vanda 155 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:47,200 Speaker 1: High wrote the Axios community saying we're getting into local 156 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 1: and we're really investing in this, it was seemingly so 157 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 1: honest about we're going to fumble, we're going to have mistakes. 158 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:57,960 Speaker 1: But you already gave a major use case around like 159 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: the Chicago Sun, of how portant it is to have 160 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 1: local journalists and people who are in a community. And 161 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 1: right now, I think what's really interesting is that we've 162 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 1: got this kind of this kind of polar opposites happening 163 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 1: where local journalism, local media, local community is becoming dare 164 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 1: i say, even more localized, and we've got major changes 165 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 1: on the kind of global scene in media. India is 166 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 1: blowing up with opportunities around media and entertainment. China you 167 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 1: reported on and I think a few other people have 168 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 1: talked about the China's building their own entertainment and their 169 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 1: empire in Hollywood empire. What's happening? What do you see 170 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:47,960 Speaker 1: in this Why are those two kind of polls so 171 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:53,080 Speaker 1: important and are they equally as impactful? Absolutely, they're both 172 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 1: so important for us. Local was always a priority whose 173 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 1: day one. We have been following the you know, demise 174 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:04,840 Speaker 1: of local newspapers due to economic constraints from the very beginning, 175 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 1: and it's something that we care about the Partner mission, 176 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 1: and to your point, Lexa, it does strengthen our national 177 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:13,200 Speaker 1: journalism because we compare with people on the ground for 178 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 1: big stories. One of the ones that really stood out 179 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 1: to me was our report one of our reporters from 180 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 1: northwest Arkansas where a report about big tech talent coming 181 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:27,080 Speaker 1: into that area of the country and recruiting and setting 182 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:29,839 Speaker 1: up offices there, like who would have known? Yeah, I mean, 183 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 1: who would have known? You know, you have Walmart there, 184 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:34,440 Speaker 1: but there's not otherwise a big tech talent cut there. 185 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:39,679 Speaker 1: And so our national tech reporter saw that and included 186 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:41,840 Speaker 1: it in her newsletter and expanded on it for our 187 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 1: national audience to say, pay attention to this story of 188 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 1: Silicon Prairie if you will move into the center of 189 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 1: the country. And so we find that it's going to 190 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 1: help our national reporters report better. And we also find 191 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:58,800 Speaker 1: that it helps to serve local communities with stronger journalism 192 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 1: if they have for peace from you know, not just 193 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 1: the local communities, but the national communities they can tap 194 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 1: into as well, or experts on the global side. What 195 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:12,200 Speaker 1: is so exciting to me is there are people who 196 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 1: are tackling it from a hyperlocal but global level. So 197 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 1: not just saying, Okay, I'm gonna cover Asia. They're saying, Okay, 198 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 1: I'm gonna set up micro bureros and Seoul in Taiwan, 199 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:25,200 Speaker 1: and I'm going to figure out how I can cover 200 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:29,080 Speaker 1: these massive places globally in a more local wise way. 201 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 1: And that to me is really powerful and important because 202 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 1: you know, We've had a few global newsrooms. I think 203 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 1: about the wires like AP and Lawyers, but we haven't 204 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 1: had so many news companies to really think about it 205 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 1: like that. I think Ben Smith and Justin Smith announcing 206 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: that they were going to create this global newsroom is 207 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 1: exciting if they're gonna go about it from that direction, 208 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: which it seems that they will. And increasingly when I 209 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 1: talked to some of the big newspapers here like the 210 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 1: New York Times, the Washington Pist, this is becoming a 211 00:11:55,800 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 1: bigger clarity for them to getting on the ground globally. Uh, 212 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:03,680 Speaker 1: you've seen Netflix and Spotify and all these big texts 213 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 1: or streaming services start to think this way of entertainment. 214 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 1: But now we're starting to see what happened for me 215 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: is and it's really exciting. I actually think there's also 216 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 1: an opportunity for brand. One of my clients has explored 217 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:18,960 Speaker 1: this idea of setting up brand bureaus globally, locally rooted 218 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 1: in perspective, and then obviously the aggregate then of that 219 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 1: content making up the broader global story. And so it's 220 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 1: interesting when brands start to think about perspective from the 221 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 1: ground and potentially participating in a similar model totally. And 222 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 1: I think about this was Superman a lot. Superman last 223 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 1: year changes logo or its slogan rather UM from truth 224 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 1: Justice in the American Way to truth justice and a 225 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:47,720 Speaker 1: better Tomorrow. And the reason they did that is because 226 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 1: streaming and entertainment and content is increasingly being deliberate via 227 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:56,280 Speaker 1: tech platforms and consumed in global markets. And so because 228 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 1: of that, you don't want to have this overly sort 229 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 1: of americanized roach that you're exporting. You want to have 230 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 1: hyperlocal content that can relate to people culturally, even with 231 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:10,959 Speaker 1: their own language on the ground, because a better business. 232 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:14,320 Speaker 1: But frankly and so I definitely agree with you, Laura. 233 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 1: I think brands are starting to make this adjustment as well, 234 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 1: and it's exciting. It is difficult. It requires mass infrastructure, right, yes, 235 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 1: infrastructure investment. And I think also like there has to 236 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 1: be a bit of like a logistics serve or founder 237 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 1: mindset around this because what's been done before hasn't worked 238 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 1: and there needs to be a bit of a rewrite. 239 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 1: We went to big national and global outlets for news 240 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:51,200 Speaker 1: for a long time, and as the UM, local communities 241 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 1: kind of almost got stripped away of a real voice 242 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 1: point of view and that kind of community cohesion that 243 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:05,360 Speaker 1: comes in with critical right information and journalism about what's 244 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:08,439 Speaker 1: happening on the ground in your town where you live. 245 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:14,120 Speaker 1: And so we went from having lots of local journalists 246 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:17,080 Speaker 1: and lots of local newspapers and lots of all you know, 247 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 1: a lot of volume of people to the complete polar opposite. 248 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:28,320 Speaker 1: I'm from Omaha, Nebraska, right Omaha World. Harald was where 249 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 1: it was at not only producing like some great journalists, 250 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:36,680 Speaker 1: but it was the true beat of the city. And 251 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 1: so losing you know, so many towns, so many cities 252 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 1: in Middle America especially, and like as Sarah said on 253 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:47,120 Speaker 1: the Prairie, what Silicon Prairie, I love that, like have 254 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 1: lost um the kind of critical information feed um that 255 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 1: is really speaking to what's happening. So what now we're 256 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 1: going back to write the focus on local, but I 257 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 1: think with better tools and maybe a different viewpoint of 258 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 1: how local really starts to feed into a bigger national 259 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 1: um point of view and information pipeline. It's just like 260 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 1: it just makes sense. It's a total different game when 261 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 1: you start thinking about national brands trying to move the 262 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 1: needle in a specific region or market coming in an 263 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 1: advertising for a season or a campaign and instead using 264 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 1: probably the same amount of money to support local journalism 265 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 1: from a longevity or equity building standpoint, Are you seeing 266 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 1: anything in that capacity? There are, absolutely, It's a huge one. 267 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 1: So let me give you three examples. We had Box 268 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 1: Media creates something called concert Local, which is sort of 269 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:52,520 Speaker 1: a local programmatic advertising marketplace. They came up with Google 270 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:55,560 Speaker 1: to do it in which they can have national brands 271 00:15:56,200 --> 00:16:00,040 Speaker 1: put out distinct messaging to local news companies. And the 272 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 1: reason they wanted to do that is because when technology 273 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 1: has made us more globalist, and so you've seen mom 274 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:10,680 Speaker 1: and pop shops, small retailers get choked out by some 275 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 1: of these really big brands like you know, Amazon and Walmart. 276 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 1: But the challenge that Amazon and Walmart base is that 277 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 1: they don't have the direct relationships with the communities. And 278 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 1: they started to realize that they're going to struggle competitively 279 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 1: against the local retailers that are there because they have 280 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 1: a marketing problem, they have an outreach problem, they have 281 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 1: a community problem, and probably perceptual also, I would imagine, yes, absolutely. 282 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:38,800 Speaker 1: I mean some of them are large employers in some 283 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 1: of these places, but a lot of times they're not. 284 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 1: And you know, Amazon has just perceived a sort of 285 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 1: the big looking man, and so they have found that 286 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 1: they want to message locally, but there's not a great 287 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 1: way to do it. I mean, Amazon is not going 288 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:53,080 Speaker 1: to put direct sellers on the ground in every single 289 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 1: city in America. So these programmatic marketplaces like what Box 290 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:01,120 Speaker 1: created became very compelling. And then you have Washington Post 291 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 1: created Derrek Dicker, who's a good friend and on the 292 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:06,359 Speaker 1: show a lot created this with Zeus where they were 293 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 1: gonna bringing a lot of local papers starting with them 294 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:12,159 Speaker 1: the class who changed in the Seattle Times, and they 295 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:15,120 Speaker 1: were going to add into a marketplace. So national advertisers Compression, 296 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:18,520 Speaker 1: then Mcclatchyannet teamed up and they said, we're going to 297 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: create the same thing because the demand was there and access. 298 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 1: That's the way we're thinking about it too. You know, 299 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:26,240 Speaker 1: we definitely want to have vocal on the ground relationships 300 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:30,919 Speaker 1: with communities and with advertisers, but we also see an 301 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 1: opportunity to bring some of our national brand partners to 302 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 1: the local level, and you're seeing them take advantage of it. 303 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:39,240 Speaker 1: Facebook is running ads in our local newsletters. So I 304 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:42,119 Speaker 1: think this is a massive, massive, trend. It's only going 305 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 1: to get bigger. And the thing I'm keen to see 306 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:49,400 Speaker 1: is how do the big brands think about this from 307 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:52,639 Speaker 1: a messaging perspective. Okay, so we solved the tech problem, right, 308 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:55,480 Speaker 1: Plus I was going to ask, is that enough? They 309 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 1: will have to be smart about how they marry the 310 00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:01,280 Speaker 1: medium and the message. So we are getting there with 311 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:03,720 Speaker 1: the media, we know how to deliver this for creating 312 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:06,960 Speaker 1: smart technology solutions. To get there, the message is a 313 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:09,639 Speaker 1: lot more nuanced. You're gonna have to invest in communities 314 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:13,399 Speaker 1: learn about their needs in order to blanket them. So 315 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:15,119 Speaker 1: right now, when you look at national as at the 316 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:18,840 Speaker 1: local level, oftentimes they do seem a little bit impersonal. 317 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:22,680 Speaker 1: What it's gonna have to start looking like is, hey, 318 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 1: you know, we know that you had a massive snowstorm 319 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 1: two days ago, and that communities are looking for water 320 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 1: and supplies. Buy one, get one, give one, and help 321 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:36,199 Speaker 1: out your local community. But they're going to invest in 322 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 1: learning the community problems before they can message like that. 323 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:42,120 Speaker 1: And so that's going to just take a few years exactly, Yes, 324 00:18:42,240 --> 00:19:02,639 Speaker 1: which is why having those connections on the ground really matters. So, Sarah, 325 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:06,760 Speaker 1: we're talking about two You're hot on local you're hot 326 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:11,360 Speaker 1: on at the same time global expansion. What else are 327 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 1: you focused on in two and what would you tell 328 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:16,359 Speaker 1: our listeners? Here are the things that I'm going to 329 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:18,880 Speaker 1: be looking at, or here are the things that I'm 330 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:21,720 Speaker 1: putting bets on. Yeah. So we saw a lot of 331 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:27,400 Speaker 1: consolidation in Discovery announcing that it would do a joint 332 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:29,679 Speaker 1: venture with a T and T that just getting out 333 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 1: Warner Media to create a huge congomberant their Amazon acquiring 334 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:38,439 Speaker 1: and d M and in the private level, you know, 335 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:41,680 Speaker 1: Boxing Group nine coming together. I think you're gonna see 336 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:47,239 Speaker 1: more consolidation, and I think in entertainment especially, there's so 337 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:50,119 Speaker 1: much need for programming for streaming that you're going to 338 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 1: see more production houses get gobbled up. In the digital 339 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 1: media space, which is interesting. One of the areas where 340 00:19:57,080 --> 00:20:00,720 Speaker 1: we saw a lot of deal volume was digital audio, 341 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:04,240 Speaker 1: which is super important because I think the audio space 342 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 1: is right for innovation. And then add tech and Martek. 343 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 1: You know, as the ad market grew, there are new 344 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:14,879 Speaker 1: college industries going around it, like CTV or even just 345 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:18,679 Speaker 1: add verification. You know, in the eighties or seventies and 346 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:21,199 Speaker 1: before that, when we just had to measure whether or 347 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 1: not households viewed a television show. We didn't have companies 348 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 1: designed to authenticate that the people were sitting in front 349 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:33,439 Speaker 1: of their TVs who just made those assumptions. With digital, 350 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 1: you can actually authenticate that. And so you have this 351 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:40,920 Speaker 1: whole college industry of authentication and verification. Think about integral ads, 352 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:44,199 Speaker 1: science going public, things about double Verify going public. So 353 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 1: that's a huge one. We have a college industry around 354 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 1: marketing and commerce that's taking off. Um you know, Tabula 355 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 1: made an eight hundred million dollar acquisition UH to get 356 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:59,639 Speaker 1: into commerce last year, and so that whole idea of 357 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 1: ottage industries around brand, marketing and advertising taking off is 358 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 1: so big. Last year was the biggest year on record 359 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:10,359 Speaker 1: for Ada and marchek ideas to give you a sense. 360 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:13,919 Speaker 1: So I think all this consolidation will continue into two. 361 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:18,280 Speaker 1: I think watch the entertainment digital audio, added martech sectors 362 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:23,679 Speaker 1: specifically for continued consolidation. And the flip side of that 363 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 1: is what's to see how regulators respond. The f C 364 00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:29,399 Speaker 1: and the d J announced that if they're taking a 365 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:33,200 Speaker 1: sort of calls for your review guidelines to change because 366 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 1: we're recognizing that, you know, anti trust and competition is 367 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 1: a bigger issue on century. So that would be the 368 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:42,159 Speaker 1: flip side of while this consolidation is like, to what 369 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:45,240 Speaker 1: extent do we actually allow it to happen? Like the 370 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:49,440 Speaker 1: Microsoft Activision deal, Yes, seventy billion dollar deal. I mean 371 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 1: Microsoft went through the ringer with antitrust in the ninety 372 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:55,119 Speaker 1: nineties and so as a result, they spent the next 373 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 1: two decades being very cautious and pandering to regulators, building 374 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 1: the big DC presence, and the result of that was 375 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:06,520 Speaker 1: that a lot of their competitors were able to grow 376 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:09,640 Speaker 1: bigger than them through acquisitions. Look at Google buying YouTube 377 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:12,720 Speaker 1: and Basic buying Instagram. But what happened in the past 378 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:17,040 Speaker 1: few years as Microsoft saw that the tune and change 379 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:21,160 Speaker 1: and kind of turned and people began to look at 380 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 1: their competitors with the negative lens in terms of competition, 381 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:26,959 Speaker 1: and they quietly came in and scooped up a lot 382 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 1: of stuff. You know, they bought the Does, the Games, 383 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:31,160 Speaker 1: and a huge deal they bought LinkedIn for twice six 384 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:34,680 Speaker 1: billion dollars. And so the announcement that they're buying Activism 385 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: those there's almost seventy billion dollars. This serves as a 386 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 1: pivotal moment actually for dealmaking forever. If regulators let this 387 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:45,119 Speaker 1: one go, it will be a huge signal built to 388 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 1: Microsoft and big tech that they're not as serious about 389 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 1: climbing down on these types of mergers. But if they 390 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:53,159 Speaker 1: take a hard look at it, you know, you can 391 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:58,120 Speaker 1: expect technical giants, but also other corporate giants just start 392 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 1: to think differently about their organic versus inorganic and purchase 393 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:04,280 Speaker 1: growth strategies because they might not be able to buy 394 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:07,679 Speaker 1: their way to dominance forever. The more we consolidate, the 395 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,920 Speaker 1: more it seems fewer bigger players will continue to dominate 396 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,679 Speaker 1: the market. Is that the trend you're seeing that is 397 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:16,200 Speaker 1: and that's the concern that lawmakers have. It is is 398 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:18,439 Speaker 1: that good for consumer choice? You know, if you have 399 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 1: a few services that control the market, they can control pricing, 400 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:26,560 Speaker 1: and they can control creativity. And so what you're starting 401 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:30,120 Speaker 1: to see is smaller companies come out and push back 402 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:31,919 Speaker 1: and say, look, we want to have to see at 403 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 1: the table because it's good for consumers. They have one, 404 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:36,680 Speaker 1: you know brand I'll call out for doing this well 405 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 1: has been broken Brokeu's pushed back a lot, and Google's 406 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 1: dominance as a result. They're the number one smart TV 407 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:44,880 Speaker 1: platform and think about the opportunity for brands. I mean, 408 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:49,520 Speaker 1: Broku has it really big edge and connected TV advertising. 409 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:53,920 Speaker 1: They bought part of Nielsen's Connected TV ad business last year. 410 00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:56,960 Speaker 1: That's an huge opportunity for brands to be able to 411 00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 1: get into the CTV game in a meaningful way And 412 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,800 Speaker 1: wouldn't have happened if it up start brand like Broku 413 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:07,360 Speaker 1: didn't try to challenge the dominance of the existing incumbents. 414 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:09,239 Speaker 1: And so I think that's a trend that's just going 415 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:12,399 Speaker 1: to continue to happen across every industry. You know, an 416 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:15,680 Speaker 1: audio you're going to have smaller upstart podcasting companies try 417 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:19,400 Speaker 1: to challenge Apple and Spotify. And Spotify at one point 418 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:22,199 Speaker 1: was that start company? Right, That's right, So it'll just 419 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 1: continue that. I want to go two seconds into audio. 420 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:30,520 Speaker 1: So I made this prediction in I don't know October 421 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:33,760 Speaker 1: to a group that I was advising that this year 422 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:36,840 Speaker 1: we were going to see two We're going to see 423 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:41,639 Speaker 1: an explosion of audio and audio innovation. Um, what are 424 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,879 Speaker 1: you seeing specifically there? Is it related to podcasts, is 425 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:49,240 Speaker 1: it related to more audio search and home devices? Tell 426 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 1: us what you're thinking. We're probably speaking MPR and Edison Edison, 427 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,400 Speaker 1: being one of the premier resource firms to audio, put 428 00:24:57,440 --> 00:24:59,720 Speaker 1: out the study that they do every year, and they 429 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:03,639 Speaker 1: found on that the share of ear meaning the amount 430 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:10,399 Speaker 1: of listening time that's going to the spoken word being podcasts, audiobooks, etcetera, 431 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,960 Speaker 1: has increased eight percentage points in the past eight years 432 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:17,000 Speaker 1: from you know, taking away some of the dominance of music. 433 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 1: Now it doesn't mean that our music dies are shrinking, 434 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:22,040 Speaker 1: they're actually growing bigger. It just means that the piece 435 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:25,200 Speaker 1: of the pie that spoken word is taking is growing bigger. 436 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:29,200 Speaker 1: And as a result, it creates a whole new economy 437 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 1: for audio that didn't exist before. You know, we had 438 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 1: spoken word being primarily consumed on radio eight years ago. 439 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:39,439 Speaker 1: Now it's primarily consumed on digital, which means we can 440 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,679 Speaker 1: serve much more targeted advertising that we can measure, etcetera. 441 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,040 Speaker 1: And so part of that consolidation you're going to see 442 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:48,719 Speaker 1: that you mentioned Colesa in the next year is going 443 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:54,680 Speaker 1: to be consolidating the business side of audio to accommodate 444 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 1: this new reality. And you're starting to see it, you know, 445 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 1: Spotify acquiring Megaphone, et cetera. But it's going to continue 446 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:05,960 Speaker 1: to get even bigger and right now, the podcast advertising 447 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 1: market specifically is still pretty small. It's only about a 448 00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:13,479 Speaker 1: billion dollars TBS like. But once we're able to create 449 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:18,600 Speaker 1: more end to end audio platforms that you can create 450 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:22,119 Speaker 1: a message, place and message, distribute a message, measure, measure 451 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 1: the impact of that message all in one place, similar 452 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:26,960 Speaker 1: to like what Facebook the social media and what Google 453 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,480 Speaker 1: Live research, it's going to bring a lot more dollars 454 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:34,400 Speaker 1: into the audio advertising one escape. So I think Spotify 455 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:36,600 Speaker 1: is definitely taking the leave right now and building that 456 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 1: end to and landscape. But you also have other competitors. 457 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,520 Speaker 1: I HURT is getting in their serious XM is getting 458 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:44,960 Speaker 1: in there, and so once there's a few big players, 459 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:48,520 Speaker 1: the investment is going to definitely poor. In Malcolm Gladwell, 460 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 1: for instance, a couple episodes back talking about his pivot 461 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 1: into audio books and creating for the audio medium, you 462 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:58,640 Speaker 1: can't buy ads and books, but can you buy ads 463 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 1: and audio books. It starts to create entirely new revenue 464 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:10,920 Speaker 1: streams for certainly the platforms, but also the creators. Totally 465 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,720 Speaker 1: quick take, what are your thoughts on social audio? Where 466 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 1: is it going? I'm not talking about a specific brand. 467 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 1: There are a lot of people getting into the space 468 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:22,639 Speaker 1: and have gotten into this space. What's next for social 469 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:26,760 Speaker 1: audio in this kind of prediction of of audio expansion 470 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 1: and consolidation. There's two ways to think about social audio. 471 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:34,639 Speaker 1: One is live and the other is asynchronous, which is 472 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:39,240 Speaker 1: you send someone VI an audio note. And I watched 473 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,199 Speaker 1: way too many to talks you wouldn't even believe. But 474 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: one viral audio trend right now is a synchronous audio 475 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:50,440 Speaker 1: where people on their Hinge profile can record a message 476 00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:54,640 Speaker 1: and it can go viral, and I think both are 477 00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,480 Speaker 1: really interesting to watch. We often are only talking about live, 478 00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:00,639 Speaker 1: but we should be thinking about asynchronous as well. In 479 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:05,720 Speaker 1: the live space, I think we saw during the lockdowns 480 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:09,200 Speaker 1: that people definitely were craving community, and so that's why 481 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:13,360 Speaker 1: it exploded. But once lockdowns ease, and people don't want 482 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:16,200 Speaker 1: to spend hours, you know, just kind of listening in 483 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:18,760 Speaker 1: on chats, they want to be in on person. I 484 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,399 Speaker 1: think the future of life audio is gonna shift a 485 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,480 Speaker 1: little bit, and what it's gonna be is it's gonna 486 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:27,359 Speaker 1: be a manifestation of what's happening in real life a 487 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:31,400 Speaker 1: little bit more so. Can you picture you're at a 488 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:34,760 Speaker 1: small meeting in your office and you don't want to 489 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:36,720 Speaker 1: have to go to this entire video. You don't have 490 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:38,800 Speaker 1: to set up and make it formal. You just all 491 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 1: doing an audio chat and you just start talking. But 492 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:43,040 Speaker 1: you can put twenty people in there. You can raise 493 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 1: your hand and the functionality is so good. I think 494 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,160 Speaker 1: that kind of can become the future of audio or 495 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 1: can be with your friends, like, hey, we need to 496 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:51,120 Speaker 1: figure out where we're going at tonight. Let's all just 497 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 1: hop on a live Like let's just all hop out 498 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 1: a club to house chat and just talk it through. 499 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:57,920 Speaker 1: I mean, I think that's gonna be a bigger part 500 00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 1: of it. It's gonna become less um of the more 501 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:05,800 Speaker 1: passive entertainment kind of pasttime with like it wasn't a 502 00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 1: pandemically listened to a bunch of rooms. It's become going 503 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:10,720 Speaker 1: to become a much more active thing that you take 504 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 1: pardon as a function for your life. And I actually 505 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:17,960 Speaker 1: think there's a enormous opportunity as it shifts into that role. Yeah, 506 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,120 Speaker 1: I agree. I I kind of look at it is 507 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:22,760 Speaker 1: like a radio frequency, right, Like you shift to a 508 00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 1: different radio frequency. There's going to be a time for 509 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 1: live specifically um, and a time for asynchronous rather than 510 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 1: maybe the kind of mean platform. But I think the 511 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 1: main platform and the functionality and features will get sucked 512 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:43,720 Speaker 1: into something that's you know, that's a broader, uh set 513 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 1: of communication tools. Because you're talking, I'm just reminiscing about 514 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 1: having my room line in the nineties and just calling 515 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:53,200 Speaker 1: you both three ways on three way. Everything old is 516 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 1: new again. It just happens to be in an app 517 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:59,640 Speaker 1: versus h picking up the room phone to Sarah before 518 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,160 Speaker 1: we let you go, I'm gonna say a word. Tell 519 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:04,880 Speaker 1: us the first thing it comes to your mind is 520 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:10,560 Speaker 1: that cool. Let's see what happens metaverse, metaverse, Facebook, Oh 521 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 1: good Web three deed bicker, Oh God, I paid you 522 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:21,320 Speaker 1: for that? He paid you for that. CMO data, Amazon 523 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:32,000 Speaker 1: was interesting, n f T. Google ants one fun thing? Travel? Yes, 524 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 1: all right, yes, and we have to play the game 525 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 1: Sarah Bye, bye bye. What is Sara Fisher in two 526 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,880 Speaker 1: saying goodbye to? What are you buying? And what are 527 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:45,720 Speaker 1: you doing yourself that you're not already doing? In two? 528 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:49,400 Speaker 1: I am saying goodbye to a lot of the conferences 529 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,240 Speaker 1: I used to go to. It has become obvious in 530 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,440 Speaker 1: the past two years that I think we all were 531 00:30:55,960 --> 00:31:00,320 Speaker 1: traveling uh, not in a smart way. Yeah, you were 532 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 1: not being as strategic about our time. And now that 533 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:08,040 Speaker 1: we figured out healthier lifestyles, so we're not running around 534 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:09,600 Speaker 1: so much. I think people are going to be much 535 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,120 Speaker 1: to take care about which ones they actually attend versus 536 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:16,080 Speaker 1: which ones they participate in virtually. Yeah, I totally agree 537 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:19,000 Speaker 1: with that. I'm all in for that. What are you buying? 538 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:23,400 Speaker 1: You know? I think the idea of the metaverse and 539 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,280 Speaker 1: blockchain and n f T S and all that is 540 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:28,560 Speaker 1: real now, it didn't feel as real to me. I 541 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:31,080 Speaker 1: wasn't investing in crypto. I mean, I actually can't buy 542 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:33,600 Speaker 1: crypto or or those I can't buy individual stocks, but 543 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 1: I wasn't thinking about it as a consumer in a 544 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:38,640 Speaker 1: really real way. Now I am. This is the year 545 00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 1: where I think most people are going to start to 546 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:43,120 Speaker 1: take this stuff seriously, you know, getting into having a 547 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:47,960 Speaker 1: digital wallet, trying to experiment with bitcoin and digital currencies, etcetera. 548 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:52,160 Speaker 1: What do you think is gonna flip the masses towards 549 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:55,600 Speaker 1: web three or n f T or having a wallet, 550 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:57,800 Speaker 1: Like do you think that there's something that has to 551 00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:02,040 Speaker 1: happen for you know, my mom to start talking about 552 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:04,560 Speaker 1: n f T S and buying n f T s Yeah. 553 00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,040 Speaker 1: I think we just need better regulatory and safety and 554 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:09,840 Speaker 1: security infrastructure. I think the reason people are parishes because 555 00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,280 Speaker 1: they talked to our financial planners about it and they're like, 556 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:14,320 Speaker 1: don't put your money in there. It could get stolen, 557 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:16,960 Speaker 1: right like crypto dot com alt trading the other day 558 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,560 Speaker 1: because money was getting taken out and they couldn't figure 559 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:22,480 Speaker 1: out why. I think once we have figured out better 560 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,640 Speaker 1: guard rails for this, it's going to become instream. Sarah, 561 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,560 Speaker 1: what are you doing yourself why? I'm going to be 562 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:33,520 Speaker 1: thinking a lot more about service in two In the 563 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:37,040 Speaker 1: past five years, I've been thinking about Axios and my 564 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,320 Speaker 1: brand and what I'm doing for my career. And if 565 00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:43,280 Speaker 1: anything has become obvious to me in the past two years, 566 00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:46,720 Speaker 1: it's that I actually can grow home my company's brand, 567 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:50,560 Speaker 1: mine better if I'm thinking about the broader landscape of 568 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:54,960 Speaker 1: journalism and how I contribute to public service, and that's 569 00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:58,200 Speaker 1: a huge mission of mine. I just um started mentoring 570 00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:01,280 Speaker 1: a young journalist this year who's in college, and I 571 00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:03,840 Speaker 1: think we're all going to be more enriched if we're 572 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:07,560 Speaker 1: thinking about giving back, because God knows as a society 573 00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:09,440 Speaker 1: that's like the only way we're going to survive it. 574 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:14,400 Speaker 1: Hey love that, and I thank you as a mentor. 575 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:17,680 Speaker 1: You've mentored us actually and in a lot of ways, 576 00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:21,280 Speaker 1: kind of informally, but you as a mentor, that is 577 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,840 Speaker 1: a lucky, lucky person. If you ever get a chance 578 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:29,000 Speaker 1: to see Sarah Fisher interview live, it is a master 579 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:33,080 Speaker 1: class for how to conduct an interview. And so when 580 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:36,120 Speaker 1: Alexas says you mentor us, I I wholeheartedly say, like, 581 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,000 Speaker 1: I've learned a lot from watching you in action. Be 582 00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:41,680 Speaker 1: sure to follow her. Also, Sarah your Twitter handle, My 583 00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:45,280 Speaker 1: Twitter handle is just Sarafish. I think I think it 584 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,920 Speaker 1: is laughing because I swore I thought what you were 585 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:51,440 Speaker 1: just going to say was if you ever see Sarafus 586 00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:54,080 Speaker 1: you're on the conference circuit. She is like the best 587 00:33:54,080 --> 00:34:03,520 Speaker 1: person at the bar. Shod um. But thank you guys 588 00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:05,440 Speaker 1: so much. The feeling is mutual. I learned from you 589 00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,560 Speaker 1: all the time. I love this podcast and UM tell 590 00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:10,319 Speaker 1: any of your listeners like, feel free to reach out. 591 00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:13,600 Speaker 1: I'm just Sarah at Access dot com with new take 592 00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:17,800 Speaker 1: that invite for anyone who is listening. You will be 593 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:21,040 Speaker 1: better for it. Sara Fisher, thank you. We can't wait 594 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:28,480 Speaker 1: to see you in person. Thanks Sarah, Thanks guy, So Laura, 595 00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:31,120 Speaker 1: I can't believe that we had Sara Fisher on five 596 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:35,520 Speaker 1: years ago. It feels like yesterday. Amazing right. We wish 597 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:41,000 Speaker 1: Sarah so much success as media. Newsletter is truly truly 598 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:45,040 Speaker 1: my every Tuesday read. If I read nothing else in 599 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:49,520 Speaker 1: the week in the business, that's the newsletter that I read. 600 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:53,080 Speaker 1: And if you don't read it already, you should be Atlantia. 601 00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:56,440 Speaker 1: We'll be back in two weeks. Laura hit it with 602 00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:58,239 Speaker 1: the list of all of our friends and family I 603 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:00,520 Speaker 1: heart who have been so good to us and helped 604 00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:04,760 Speaker 1: us get back on air. Big thank you to Bob Conall, Carter, Andy, 605 00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:08,520 Speaker 1: Eric Gayle Val, Michael Jen We appreciate you. Thank you 606 00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:11,400 Speaker 1: so much for this opportunity. We'll see you in two weeks.