Speaker 1: Welcome to trillion. So I'm Joel Weber and I'm Eric
Speaker 1: beltiunas Eric. Uh, the markets, the economic turbulence, everything has
Speaker 1: been a little crazy yet and yet investors have a
Speaker 1: way to make some money still. Yeah, I mean there's
Speaker 1: there's always going to be a hunt for something up performing.
Speaker 1: And obviously the last decade it's been like growth stocks
Speaker 1: and tech stocks and uh, anything that was shiny was
Speaker 1: really where it was at. Now we've got a whole
Speaker 1: new environment. And now what's interesting is one of those
Speaker 1: areas that is seeing inflows way beyond what they normally
Speaker 1: see and beyond their weight in assets, so they're punching
Speaker 1: above their weight is high dividend e t f s.
Speaker 1: And any analysts will tell you they get asked about
Speaker 1: income all the time, like that's like an evergreen topic.
Speaker 1: So you have need for yield, Yet people are skittish
Speaker 1: to get that yield in the bond market right now
Speaker 1: because they know the fit is hell bent on raising rates,
Speaker 1: so they want yield still, and normally high divid and
Speaker 1: ETFs are not that great because they tend to hold
Speaker 1: energy and utilities because that's where high dividends are. But
Speaker 1: this year those sectors rule. So you've got this perfect
Speaker 1: one two punch in these ct s. I call it
Speaker 1: the sweet spot where they've got two things that people want,
Speaker 1: which is that energy exposure and the high dividends. Um.
Speaker 1: And so they have taken in about dollars this year.
Speaker 1: That's already a record. And the problem I think they
Speaker 1: might take in fifty and they are not that big
Speaker 1: of a category. So this is a nice little feeding
Speaker 1: frenzy and we should really dive into this. I think
Speaker 1: it's a classic, UM you know how to play, uh episode? Okay,
Speaker 1: So joining us will be Todd Rosenbluth. He's a regular
Speaker 1: on Trillions and he's got a new job. He's the
Speaker 1: head of research at Verify, as well as Susanne Woollie,
Speaker 1: personal finance reporter with Bloomberg Wealth, this time on Trillions,
Speaker 1: High Dividend e t f S. Todd, Susanne, welcome back
Speaker 1: to Trillions. Good to be here, Good to be with
Speaker 1: you all. Okay, So Eric set the table there. Things
Speaker 1: have turned really quickly and all of a sudden, a
Speaker 1: category that probably a lot of people weren't paying attention
Speaker 1: to is something that people should be interested in. Todd,
Speaker 1: what kind of returns are we looking at in general
Speaker 1: in this category. So I guess to set the stage,
Speaker 1: we've got the SMP five hundred at the time we're
Speaker 1: recording this down twenty three percent. The high dividend yields
Speaker 1: tend to have have fallen half less than half of
Speaker 1: that ten percent, and in some cases they're close to
Speaker 1: treading water for the year. So you would have saved
Speaker 1: two thousand basis points, perhaps depending upon whether or not
Speaker 1: you were in some of these dividend filding e t s.
Speaker 1: And and maybe if I can, if I can pare
Speaker 1: back for a second, and maybe you guys were going
Speaker 1: to do this. But there's two main types of dividend dts.
Speaker 1: There's dividend growth ETFs, where the companies have a long
Speaker 1: record of paying and growing their dividends, but the yields
Speaker 1: are close to the broader SMP five. And then you've
Speaker 1: got these high dividend yielding ETFs that we're gonna talk about,
Speaker 1: where the yield is three, four, sometimes even five, and
Speaker 1: the companies that are constructed are based on the yield,
Speaker 1: not based on their record of paying dividends. And so
Speaker 1: I think that's an important distinction. It's not all dividend
Speaker 1: dtfs are the same as as I now say at Vertify. Okay, so,
Speaker 1: by the way, it congrats on that new gig. Before
Speaker 1: we go to Suzanne, I want to just ask you.
Speaker 1: You and Eric always have these bets going comparrently. You
Speaker 1: know what bets are live right now, So there's no
Speaker 1: dividend bet. I will say that the left there might
Speaker 1: be by the end of the episode, though there might be.
Speaker 1: The last time that I was on here, Eric's sprung
Speaker 1: a bet on me um that I said yes to
Speaker 1: on the fly, and I stick with that UM. So
Speaker 1: I'll highlight that one because that's the one I think
Speaker 1: he's more confident in any other, and he can perhaps
Speaker 1: highlight the one that he thinks I should be more confident.
Speaker 1: So last time we bet that Capital Group, which was
Speaker 1: at the time soon to launch actively managed equity t F.
Speaker 1: They subsequently did that in February. I believe in late
Speaker 1: February that they would gather have assets under management of
Speaker 1: seven billion dollars or more by the end of that
Speaker 1: first twelve month period. Uh that is alive. Bet. They
Speaker 1: are have been growing assets. It's close to two billion dollars.
Speaker 1: I realized that if he'll do the math here for
Speaker 1: you and add that up, and it will be under
Speaker 1: seven billion dollars. But we're going to see an accelerated growth.
Speaker 1: So I'm still feeling very good about that one. But
Speaker 1: that one I could see coming closer to the wire
Speaker 1: than the next one that I'll let Eric set up
Speaker 1: because I feel much more. I feel confident in in
Speaker 1: in E. S G. Yeah, So the Capitol Group, when
Speaker 1: I'm pretty confident, although they are a massive company and
Speaker 1: they know about this bet, and they can they can
Speaker 1: just move you know, a couple of billion if they
Speaker 1: wanted to, like they on the night before, they could
Speaker 1: just make Todd win. So they always have that lever
Speaker 1: they can pull, and that makes me nervous. But otherwise,
Speaker 1: like that sounds like a Boomarati conspiracy theory there, I think, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean UM, and plus the market's going down, so
Speaker 1: that hurts assets. So I like my chances based on trajectories.
Speaker 1: But they always have that lever. But the other better
Speaker 1: we have is I bet that of E. S G
Speaker 1: t S would liquidate by the end of this year.
Speaker 1: This is back when they had UM seventy nine or something,
Speaker 1: so I need about twenty or nineteen to liquidate by
Speaker 1: the end of the year, and so far I think
Speaker 1: only two or three have. But it's trending up. And
Speaker 1: if the market keeps getting awful and the E s
Speaker 1: G baggage keeps increasing, which it is six months, I
Speaker 1: think I've got a shot. I think my I'm like
Speaker 1: a fifteen to one shot to win that one. But
Speaker 1: I'm I'm a total favorite to win the Capitol Group one.
Speaker 1: And my recollection is that Eric has the upper hand
Speaker 1: in this betting history. Correct. Yes, yes, we We've had
Speaker 1: a couple of close ones and then Todd was Todd
Speaker 1: was silent and grimacing. Okay, Suzanne, let's let's bring you
Speaker 1: back in. UM. I want to talk to you about
Speaker 1: when you talk to investors or advisors, how how do
Speaker 1: people feel about this this category in general high dividend.
Speaker 1: I think people right now feel like pretty good about
Speaker 1: it because they're looking for anything that has like the
Speaker 1: whiff of certainty. UM. You know, having been in people
Speaker 1: have found themselves so you know, overweighted and tech not
Speaker 1: even realizing it, you know in the SMP UM and
Speaker 1: you know they are. Everyone is desperate for income, so
Speaker 1: you know, the big thing I hear about every advisor
Speaker 1: is talking about. Of course, is like Series I savings bonds,
Speaker 1: which track inflation because they're at like night point nine
Speaker 1: point six percent, but you can only buy ten thousand
Speaker 1: of them a year, so it's not going to do
Speaker 1: a lot for your portfolio. So I mean energy has
Speaker 1: been hot, like you said before, energy and UM utilities,
Speaker 1: you know, So this is an area that, like Eric said,
Speaker 1: a lot of money is going into and a lot
Speaker 1: of people are talking about. I want to jump on
Speaker 1: in quickly if I can to say I wasn't grimacing.
Speaker 1: I was being polite and waiting for Susanne to be
Speaker 1: brought into the conversation because that's that's the appropriate thing
Speaker 1: to do. UM. But I think to piggyback on on
Speaker 1: what she was saying, there's been just a search for income.
Speaker 1: You know, we've done surveys with advisors at Vertify and
Speaker 1: they're continually looking for alternatives to fixed income. So I
Speaker 1: know you've talked about covered call series of products beforehand
Speaker 1: on this platform. We've talked about, you know, inflation protection
Speaker 1: you have on this platform. The high dividend yielding products
Speaker 1: have been around a while, you know, uh I shares
Speaker 1: in Vanguard have had products that of ten fifteen year
Speaker 1: plus histories, but they've they've they've come up when investors
Speaker 1: are seeking out that income component, and we've gotten now
Speaker 1: even more products than ever before to give investors and
Speaker 1: advisors choices. One of the key things here though, is
Speaker 1: that you know, the US tenure Treasury yield is now
Speaker 1: up to three point two percent. That's pretty good. But
Speaker 1: these high dividend e t F s UM are going
Speaker 1: to yield. Some of them yield a little more than that,
Speaker 1: some a little less. But I think it's interesting just
Speaker 1: to note that I do believe investors just aren't quite
Speaker 1: They're just more scared of the bond market right now
Speaker 1: because that's where the FED has a direct impact. Whereas
Speaker 1: in and and with because bonds all all the rates
Speaker 1: are going up, all the new bonds you can get
Speaker 1: a higher rate. It really questions the value of the
Speaker 1: current bonds over on the equity side. The other thing
Speaker 1: about this is, yes, you get the yield of it's
Speaker 1: around three to three for most, but that's double the
Speaker 1: S ANDPS yield and you get that pop because it's
Speaker 1: largely in energy and utilities UM and so I think
Speaker 1: that's also important is because the return is a yield
Speaker 1: in a way to UM by not underperforming. So it's
Speaker 1: the right yield. It's not just a yield, it's it's
Speaker 1: a it's a it's a better yield. I think for
Speaker 1: many investors until the FED cools off, I just think
Speaker 1: the bond market is going to be a tough place.
Speaker 1: We've seen it in the flows in mutual funds in particular,
Speaker 1: a lot of older investors are bailing UM. So that's
Speaker 1: gonna be a constant drain on the prices of bonds
Speaker 1: for the foreseeable future. So UM, it's interesting how this works.
Speaker 1: Sometimes an et F category just it just just troads
Speaker 1: along for a decade like oh yeah, whatever, and then bam,
Speaker 1: the star is just aligne and it's like got it's
Speaker 1: got what everyone wants. So todd as these stars sort
Speaker 1: of ALIGNE. Let's walk through some of the tickers that
Speaker 1: UM jump out to you. What's what's your number one?
Speaker 1: Because there's like what Tannard twelve in this category that
Speaker 1: have sort of attracted it engine. What's your number one? Yeah,
Speaker 1: well my number one or the number one, so you
Speaker 1: know the most popular. Let's do let's do the number
Speaker 1: one and then you can do your number one. Sure,
Speaker 1: So the most popular of these ETFs this year based
Speaker 1: on my data, I'm sure Eric stated will agree with
Speaker 1: this is HDV. This is the I shares Core high
Speaker 1: dividend uh e t F. It's pulled in as we're
Speaker 1: recording this five and a half billion dollars. It's down
Speaker 1: just one and a half percent. It's extremely cheap. UH.
Speaker 1: It's it's focused on those sectors that that Eric was
Speaker 1: talking about, not only but it has above average exposure
Speaker 1: to high dividend yielding stocks within energy and utilities. UM.
Speaker 1: I want to call out I guess two other ones, uh,
Speaker 1: that are one that is popular and one that I
Speaker 1: find to be under the radar. And I'm not sure
Speaker 1: why it's not as popular. So sp h D, which
Speaker 1: is in Investco SMP five High Dividend Low Volatility e
Speaker 1: t F UM. I think I got that name right,
Speaker 1: and where the dividendendo low volatility is on this This
Speaker 1: is as the name suggests, it not only owns well,
Speaker 1: it starts with the SMP five hundred that's important, uh,
Speaker 1: and then it looks at companies that have both a
Speaker 1: low risk profile less volatility as well as an above
Speaker 1: average dividend yield. It's pulled in about a billion dollars
Speaker 1: this year. It's down four and a half percent, so
Speaker 1: doing still much better than the SNP five hundred. And
Speaker 1: then there's an alps UH sector dividend dog ETF the
Speaker 1: tickers S, D O, g UM. I think Suzanne has
Speaker 1: a dog that's staying with her. I've got a dog
Speaker 1: sleeping not that far from me. That ticker S dog
Speaker 1: is just fun to say out loud. But what's compelling
Speaker 1: to me about this is that it's equally weighted at
Speaker 1: the highest dividend yielding stocks across all of the sectors,
Speaker 1: so it isn't dominated by energy and utilities that has
Speaker 1: some technology exposure less than a broader market, some financials exposure,
Speaker 1: I think, less than a broader market, but it's equally
Speaker 1: spread out there. UM, and I'm a little surprised it
Speaker 1: hasn't pulled in that much money is I think it's
Speaker 1: just under a hundred million in net influence this year.
Speaker 1: But it's it's performing well, and it's it's well constructed.
Speaker 1: So I guess those are the Those are three of
Speaker 1: them that jump out to me. I'm confident my fellow
Speaker 1: et f analyst NERD is going to have three different ones.
Speaker 1: How do you feel about the reads? It has a
Speaker 1: big slug of reads, doesn't it? Real Estate investment trusts? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean real estate is you know, important sector to
Speaker 1: have exposure to. It tends to historically do okay during
Speaker 1: a rising interest rate environment and real estates different than
Speaker 1: it was years ago. Especially we've got these former communication
Speaker 1: services companies American Tower, Crown Castle that are above average
Speaker 1: dividud yielders. So I like that it's got exposure to
Speaker 1: it to real estate. That's that's a important thing to
Speaker 1: be aware of. Some of these don't have exposure to
Speaker 1: real estate. They intentionally carve out. Real estate is one
Speaker 1: of the sectors. Some don't. So it's important to take
Speaker 1: a look at it and do do some homework on
Speaker 1: these ETFs. Yeah. I mean I think if if you
Speaker 1: if they yield is really high or the returns are
Speaker 1: just abnormally good, it's probably concentrated in something like it
Speaker 1: probably has more energy um or more reads. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think that's something you have to weigh. And you know,
Speaker 1: this is why Todd and I have job security because
Speaker 1: even amongst high divided ETFs, which they're all have sounded
Speaker 1: the same. There are a lot of differences. And I
Speaker 1: actually went through when I wrote my note two weeks
Speaker 1: ago and just look at the prospectives for how they're designed,
Speaker 1: and like I mean, I guess you could say they're
Speaker 1: all similar, but they start with a different universe, like UM,
Speaker 1: the I Shares HDV. The I shares one starts with
Speaker 1: the morning Star US Market Index and then it picks
Speaker 1: the eighties stocks with the strongest UM, financial health and dividends.
Speaker 1: So there's a fundamental aspect to that one. And then
Speaker 1: it waits it by dividends. So then their s P
Speaker 1: y D, which is the SMP five hundred is the universe.
Speaker 1: It takes the eight highest then it kind of equalates
Speaker 1: it more or less um. And but both those and
Speaker 1: there's the feet. Both of those are ten basis points fee,
Speaker 1: which is really good. That's another thing about this area.
Speaker 1: It's very cheap, like compared to like buying an dividend
Speaker 1: manager E t F back in the day. This is
Speaker 1: like dirt cheap. It's a it's really a great service,
Speaker 1: I think to have this kind of access for these
Speaker 1: costs UM, but there are difference this year and then
Speaker 1: like the Vanguard one which is very popular v y
Speaker 1: M that uses the Footsie universe and it picks five
Speaker 1: hundred companies, So obviously that's not going to pop as much.
Speaker 1: So I love I love the field number of holdings.
Speaker 1: That's an underrated field for E t F in my opinion,
Speaker 1: because I think most people in sniff test wise can
Speaker 1: can understand like, oh, it holds three D stocks, okay,
Speaker 1: versus like fifty or eighty you know, uh, that can
Speaker 1: tell you how you should use it. So I would
Speaker 1: say for the ones that hold a D you really
Speaker 1: should consider that like a satellite position, um, whereas you
Speaker 1: could almost move in a v y M a little
Speaker 1: a little more into your core, I mean, depending on
Speaker 1: what your goal, your goals are UM. And then there's
Speaker 1: you know, I guess there's a slew of other ones.
Speaker 1: Everybody has one, Wisdom Tree has one, First Trust has one.
Speaker 1: When you guys break the numbers down for this category,
Speaker 1: I mean there are we've talked about energy and utilities.
Speaker 1: Is there a given company or stock that ends up
Speaker 1: basically everywhere at a high percentages it like Exxon shows
Speaker 1: up everywhere in this category, so it I guess it
Speaker 1: depends It depends upon the criteria of it. So if
Speaker 1: you're looking at high dividend, you know, if if the
Speaker 1: focus is above average dividend yield, I would think companies
Speaker 1: like Exxon Mobile and Johnson and Johnson, those uh are
Speaker 1: higher divd in yielding stocks. Verizon perhaps if communication services
Speaker 1: part of it, that's that tends to happen. But I
Speaker 1: want to just if I can, for a second, go
Speaker 1: back to what Eric said. The number of holdings is important,
Speaker 1: but the other thing that he said that I'll agree
Speaker 1: with is how concentrated are those holdings and whether there's
Speaker 1: equally weighted aspect to it or not. So HTV that
Speaker 1: I shares core hygh divid and DTF has seventy five stocks.
Speaker 1: That's actually about what you'd find within the s dog
Speaker 1: one I keep referencing. But x On Mobile is nine
Speaker 1: of HDV. It's going to perform better when energy does
Speaker 1: better because and when Xon in particular does better because
Speaker 1: of that concentration. It's going to struggle that same way
Speaker 1: if a company or two that that's heavily weighted underperforms.
Speaker 1: So I just looked up x in and then I
Speaker 1: searched for high dividends it's in most of them. Um. So,
Speaker 1: first first point here is if you're an E s
Speaker 1: G type, do not invest in high divid and ETFs,
Speaker 1: which which brings me up to the problem with the
Speaker 1: s G and being moral when you invest is at
Speaker 1: some point the money is gonna win, You're gonna go.
Speaker 1: You know, I need the yield, I like the return. Uh,
Speaker 1: screw it. That's a one point. The second point is
Speaker 1: if you look at Exxon and you look at something
Speaker 1: like HDV, XN is an eight point seven percent waiting
Speaker 1: in that one, But then in v y M I'm
Speaker 1: looking here, XN is a much more tame two point
Speaker 1: six percent waiting. And that's going to happen throughout these
Speaker 1: e T f Uh. Some stocks are going to have
Speaker 1: a much higher weighting. Um, I think you tend to
Speaker 1: find like the Van Guardian ones are going to be
Speaker 1: like more market cap weighted, so XN couldn't possibly be
Speaker 1: eight percent. But then, um, everybody else, Wisdom Tree, even
Speaker 1: I shares, You're gonna find some weight equally or by
Speaker 1: the factor itself. And if it waits by the factor
Speaker 1: itself like dividends, you clearly are going to have some
Speaker 1: stocks that dominate the fund and that can be a
Speaker 1: little scary because yes, this thing yields a lot, but
Speaker 1: now it's really controlling your fund. So I think it's
Speaker 1: really interesting, and I think some investors probably would opt
Speaker 1: for the equal weighted version UM on these UM. There's
Speaker 1: there's just these are probably the greatest example on like
Speaker 1: the due diligence checklist for an ETF because there's several
Speaker 1: ways these could go and then the you know obviously
Speaker 1: that this waiting and the UM expense ratio and all
Speaker 1: this just kind of adds up to a different return stream.
Speaker 1: Although I gotta say, if I look at them, they're
Speaker 1: all doing pretty good relatively SMP. There's there's no real
Speaker 1: crazy outliers that it's like, well, what's this doing? It's
Speaker 1: not labeled correctly. I mean, you really do get high
Speaker 1: dividends with most of these, but their their approaches are
Speaker 1: pretty different. Susanna. Want to bring you back in. We
Speaker 1: didn't get to hear some of your favorite tickers yet
Speaker 1: UM in the space. Which ones have we not talked
Speaker 1: about that UM that are on your list. I mean
Speaker 1: I was looking at h DV, like we talked about
Speaker 1: the ice shares one UM. What was interesting to me
Speaker 1: that I sort of wanted to ask you guys about
Speaker 1: was that you know so much of it. The main
Speaker 1: the biggest holdings in that fund are in the top
Speaker 1: of the SMP, the top twenty stocks the spire. So
Speaker 1: it just made me sort of laugh in a way
Speaker 1: because you know what we've seen as our portfolios dominated
Speaker 1: by the top ten percent, the top ten stocks in
Speaker 1: the SMP, and now we're going to move into these
Speaker 1: high dividend yield e t f s and get into like,
Speaker 1: you know, number ten to number twenty in the SMP.
Speaker 1: Five d um, But I don't know hdv V I am.
Speaker 1: I was looking at when I was curious that I
Speaker 1: wanted to run by you guys was what international dividend
Speaker 1: e t f s should we be looking at? And
Speaker 1: do any of them have a big chunk, big mix
Speaker 1: of US and international dividend ETFs dividend stocks? Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean most of these are going to have some international version.
Speaker 1: I mean these companies d it's like, um, any sort
Speaker 1: of product. You know, you've got coke, diet coke, cherry coke.
Speaker 1: It's just like high divid international, high different global. So
Speaker 1: like for example, v y M has v y M I,
Speaker 1: which is the International High Dividend, which is very similar. Um,
Speaker 1: so yeah, they're they're gonna do that, and I'm just curious.
Speaker 1: Let's look at the yield difference between the two. So
Speaker 1: if v y M gives you a yield of two
Speaker 1: point eight percent, which is low, but again Vanguard when
Speaker 1: they view factors, they really water them down by market
Speaker 1: cap waiting. Anyway, the International one yields double that four
Speaker 1: point seven percent, So you know you're probably gonna get
Speaker 1: a lot more yield over there. But that then you're
Speaker 1: in international stocks, which have you know, can have issues. Um,
Speaker 1: a lot of people like to stick in the US.
Speaker 1: I don't know if Todd, do you have a take
Speaker 1: on like if some if your mom came to you
Speaker 1: and one at high dividends, would you center a US
Speaker 1: or international? Well, I think you should. I think if
Speaker 1: you're gonna have international equity as a carve out of
Speaker 1: your portfolio, then and it certainly can make sense to
Speaker 1: have something like v y M I, which is that
Speaker 1: a Vanguard High Dividend Yield International E t F as
Speaker 1: an example. I don't know that I would be seeking
Speaker 1: just income for that, I would be using that as
Speaker 1: my international slug of the portfolio um But Susan your
Speaker 1: question prompted me to just go into too quickly search
Speaker 1: for it because I actually had forgotten this e t
Speaker 1: F existed and maybe there's others, But there's a spider
Speaker 1: SNP Global Dividend e t F W d I V
Speaker 1: which is actually much more internationally focused than than your
Speaker 1: typical UH all country world or global approach to it.
Speaker 1: So it only has about in the United States and
Speaker 1: then Canada, Japan, Hong Kong, Switzerland, UK rounded out, and
Speaker 1: so I think that that's being constructed in part based
Speaker 1: on the yield. This is the challenge when you try
Speaker 1: to do this on the fly, is to the rules
Speaker 1: of of an index. But I think that is being
Speaker 1: constructed based on the yield, and that's why perhaps um
Speaker 1: or and that it has to have a criteria of
Speaker 1: having raised a dividend for a period of time. But
Speaker 1: this is just an example of you can get a
Speaker 1: global equity dividend yielding portfolio in the mix, and just
Speaker 1: real quick I found a good one here. Fidelities International
Speaker 1: High Dividit ETF SO vanguards a conservative take on that,
Speaker 1: but the fidelity kind of goes all the way. So
Speaker 1: if this thing yields a very healthy five point three,
Speaker 1: which is looks very attractive relatively speaking. Um, and the
Speaker 1: holdings are pretty mixed. You got a hundred and fifteen
Speaker 1: holdings and they're in a lot of different sectors. It's
Speaker 1: not just like energy, its banks, insurance, telecom, uh, some mining,
Speaker 1: chemicals again very not very not e s G. And
Speaker 1: it's spread up between countries Canada, Japan, UK, France. UM
Speaker 1: and interesting the pe on this is nine point seven.
Speaker 1: I mean that is low. So you're you're kind of
Speaker 1: getting a value trade here too. I wonder if this
Speaker 1: thing is out performing this year. Let me see, so
Speaker 1: this is the year today it returns for this it's
Speaker 1: down seven. So that's the thing, like, even though you
Speaker 1: have all that good value and energy exposure, you're still down,
Speaker 1: although you're down less, whereas the ones in the US
Speaker 1: or some of them are all close to actually you know,
Speaker 1: being flat. I would add though, Susanne. And again I
Speaker 1: love it when you bring when somebody brings in a
Speaker 1: question for the rest of us and keeps us on
Speaker 1: our toes. When you're investing internationally, you know, looking at
Speaker 1: currency is important. So again, doing some quick due diligence.
Speaker 1: Here dB a W, which is an ex tracker all
Speaker 1: country world x US hedged equity ETF, so it's going
Speaker 1: to hedge out that currency risk. Uh. The impact of
Speaker 1: the dollars has weighed significantly on international slices of a portfolio,
Speaker 1: so hedging that out has been rewarding UH in general. Um,
Speaker 1: and I presume has been the case for dB a W.
Speaker 1: So just again, lots of tools in the toolbox for
Speaker 1: an advisor to sort of through and do some homework on,
Speaker 1: and just a little digging that we're doing here on
Speaker 1: the fly. Okay, I thought of a bet and then
Speaker 1: I'm gonna throw out there for for Todd and Eric,
Speaker 1: which is, if this has already been a record year
Speaker 1: for the high dividend et F category, how big is
Speaker 1: it going to be by the end of the year
Speaker 1: overall assets under management in this space? What's it gonna be?
Speaker 1: How about we do U two flows. So here's the numbers, Todd,
Speaker 1: So they've taken in twenty five billion this year. Now,
Speaker 1: last year they took in about nineteen billion, which was
Speaker 1: their old record, so they've already beat their old record.
Speaker 1: So I would, honestly, I would put the over under
Speaker 1: it fifty, which would be double maybe even may maybe. Um,
Speaker 1: I don't know, you're gonna take the Are you gonna
Speaker 1: take the over or the under? I'm taking the over.
Speaker 1: I'm not letting him think about it. I'm taking the
Speaker 1: over on this. Yeah, I gotta say over on this.
Speaker 1: You can want to set it higher, you can set
Speaker 1: it higher. I'll take the fifty one. I sometimes I
Speaker 1: sometimes feel like betting against Todd's excitement is a winning trade.
Speaker 1: But in this case, I just these things are so
Speaker 1: perfect for this year that I can't. I cannot take
Speaker 1: the under because I just don't feel it as much
Speaker 1: as the other one. So I gotta, I gotta wanna
Speaker 1: go to the standown. I wanna go to you want
Speaker 1: to go to fifty five? I'll take under a hundred? No, Well,
Speaker 1: come on, how that's that's crazy, Susanne. Where should we
Speaker 1: put the number? I don't know I'm going if I'm
Speaker 1: I think fifty sounds reasonable to me. We gotta, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna che it up. We're gonna we're gonna say fifty, Eric,
Speaker 1: are you over or under that? The big problem with
Speaker 1: that bet, the under the underbet to me would be
Speaker 1: that maybe they're the recessionary numbers, Like there's some economic
Speaker 1: signals that say the FED his like messed up to
Speaker 1: the actual economy, and they back up all of a sudden.
Speaker 1: All the stocks and these funds are going down. That's
Speaker 1: why you can you can pick the under if you want.
Speaker 1: But I don't think the Fed's going to do that
Speaker 1: because I think that because inflation is the number one
Speaker 1: issue amongst voters, and the mid terms are all the
Speaker 1: way in November, they're going to be hell bent no
Speaker 1: matter what the economy says. So it's almost like betting,
Speaker 1: well the FED back up after the mid terms and
Speaker 1: before the end of the year. It's a very specific
Speaker 1: bet on that, in my opinion, And I just don't
Speaker 1: know if I feel like I want to bet on that.
Speaker 1: I just because I'm I'm I'm just not. I don't
Speaker 1: I don't have a clear vision the over. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: got the I got the over on And see what
Speaker 1: happens Joel when he throws the bet at me, I go, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'll do it. When you throw the bet, he's like,
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about it, and he threw in the In
Speaker 1: my opinion, so he's covered himself from a comp well perspect.
Speaker 1: Most of the time, the bets between Todd Night happen
Speaker 1: organically on Twitter, where he'll have a take. I'll say
Speaker 1: I don't and then he'll be like no, and I'm
Speaker 1: like all right, like you know, throw my wall on
Speaker 1: the table. Let's let's see if you really feel this way.
Speaker 1: All right, Well, you guys can after the episode wraps.
Speaker 1: I mean, everybody's out there, we'll see if we can
Speaker 1: come up with something. Got the bet. No, the bed
Speaker 1: is fifty, the bed is over on it and if
Speaker 1: you want to slide the number up, slide the number
Speaker 1: up a little bit. That's the bet. I'll bet your coffee.
Speaker 1: We'll take this to the Twitter and we'll see what
Speaker 1: the Twitter has to say. Um, you gotta show them.
Speaker 1: I was just wondering if there's anything interesting to note
Speaker 1: about sort of average market cap um. It seems like
Speaker 1: the Vanguard one was average weighted market cap was like
Speaker 1: a hundred and seventeen billion. But there's something are much
Speaker 1: TV larger and smaller. Yeah. I think that's important is
Speaker 1: to take so that we're going through a number of
Speaker 1: things that are worth looking at that that are easy, Uh,
Speaker 1: do your homework, checklist, things of understanding how many stocks
Speaker 1: it has, understanding the sector exposure that it has or
Speaker 1: is allowed to have, the concentration, and then I think
Speaker 1: looking at the average market cap can tell you that
Speaker 1: so these dominant you know, something that's got over a
Speaker 1: hundred billion dollars as an average market cap or even higher,
Speaker 1: shows you that they're focusing on more of these mega
Speaker 1: cap companies those might be more stable, uh in terms
Speaker 1: of a quality perspective, but also have some less growth potential. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's one et f that we didn't you know, that
Speaker 1: we didn't touch on that that caught my eye, which
Speaker 1: is from global X the tickers D I V. It
Speaker 1: has super Dividend in the name because it's the highest
Speaker 1: yielding stocks that they can possibly find around. And the
Speaker 1: market cap on that is thirty one, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: thirty one billion dollars. And it has a number of
Speaker 1: companies in its top ten holdings that I have heard of,
Speaker 1: like IBM and Kellogg and a number of companies that
Speaker 1: I haven't heard of, which just tells you that it's
Speaker 1: fishing in a in a much broader than just the
Speaker 1: S and P five. Yeah. I mean, by the way,
Speaker 1: we should highlight that one We've really covered the more
Speaker 1: mainstream ones, but there are a couple wild and crazy ones.
Speaker 1: Um Estive is an interesting one. It's been around a
Speaker 1: long time. Um it holds the hundred highest yielding companies
Speaker 1: in the world, point blank. So when you have that
Speaker 1: as your mandate, you're gonna you're gonna buy some really
Speaker 1: wacky stuff. But it yields. That's a crazy yield for stocks.
Speaker 1: But you're gonna own stuff like you probably own MLPs
Speaker 1: in here. You probably own rates. Your allocations you're going
Speaker 1: to take you to China, Brazil, Hong Kong, alata e m.
Speaker 1: It's risky, but you know, if I call this thing
Speaker 1: a yield seeking missile again, if it's a satellite position
Speaker 1: and you want just a little bump a yield, you
Speaker 1: would obviously need to allocate less. But this thing can
Speaker 1: be volatile. Dude. The average pe on this is five.
Speaker 1: Holy molly, that's like Nigeria. I mean, there's nothing five.
Speaker 1: By the way, the last time I saw a p
Speaker 1: of five was when we covered the airline et F
Speaker 1: before the pandemic. I was like, these stocks are so
Speaker 1: beaten down. That had a nice run. But I will
Speaker 1: say Nigeria has been at five. For like fifteen years,
Speaker 1: I used to look at et s by low pe
Speaker 1: thinking like they were deals. Believe me, they can be
Speaker 1: deals for a long time, like some of these country
Speaker 1: e t s especially, but five is really low. That
Speaker 1: means you're buying some crap because it means that active
Speaker 1: managers hate these stocks. But they held a lot. That's
Speaker 1: what you get, I think. But I think you mispronounced value.
Speaker 1: I think you called it so, I think you called
Speaker 1: it something else. Just to clarify, uh, And and this
Speaker 1: is a good e t F two s d I V.
Speaker 1: The one I was referencing was just d I V,
Speaker 1: which is the US version of this but from global
Speaker 1: X two very worthwhile ETFs that are under the radar
Speaker 1: for investors and advisors to take a closer look at. Todd.
Speaker 1: You haven't been on the show in your new capacity,
Speaker 1: but for gotta ask, do you have a new favorite
Speaker 1: et F ticker? Okay, so I'm gonna take the liberty
Speaker 1: since you since I'm part of a company that has
Speaker 1: index capabilities, I'm going to both name something that is
Speaker 1: cool and interesting that we're tied to and in full disclosure,
Speaker 1: we are tied to it. But there is a procure
Speaker 1: et F that just came out under the ticker FEMA
Speaker 1: f E M A UM, which is a disaster recovery effort.
Speaker 1: And I just think that just first of all, no
Speaker 1: one should ever have to say FEMA out loud historically
Speaker 1: in in but now it's just it rolls off the
Speaker 1: tongue to me. Um, And it's just a cool sounding,
Speaker 1: you know, cool name uh for for it. So my
Speaker 1: my prior submission, I used to like p b J
Speaker 1: that's an investco et F that's food related. UM. I
Speaker 1: think I continue to like that. Um. Yeah, we're kind
Speaker 1: of in disaster mode though it's p BJ sounds great,
Speaker 1: you know when when you're in a bull market, but
Speaker 1: now that we're in a bear market, I think THEEMA
Speaker 1: is appropriate. Uh. Susanne, we haven't asked you for a while. Uh.
Speaker 1: Any new favorite E t F tickers? Um? No. I
Speaker 1: still love cows CEO w Z, which I think is
Speaker 1: timely because it's a cash flow um E t F.
Speaker 1: But there's what I wish was in there, like ouch
Speaker 1: oh U c H. It's actually the ticker for a
Speaker 1: company called Occupational Urgent Care Health, which I don't know
Speaker 1: what that is, but I love that ticker. Good for
Speaker 1: the times as well. But by the way, can I
Speaker 1: just comment on cows. This is a very relevant issue.
Speaker 1: Is the PACER US cash cowsf This thing is like
Speaker 1: in the top twenty of most inflow et f s.
Speaker 1: PACER has never had a hit like this, and it
Speaker 1: tracks the free cash flow, which is very valued in
Speaker 1: this kind of market. But again, where do you get
Speaker 1: You get a lot of energy basically energy. Anything that
Speaker 1: act that has energy in it, even if its name
Speaker 1: is high dividend or cash flow, is really doing well
Speaker 1: this or uh, simply because energy is the only thing
Speaker 1: up and anyway, just but I like cows uh as well.
Speaker 1: I think that's a good one. And by the way,
Speaker 1: that it has a sister or I get young sibling
Speaker 1: version calf, which is small free cash flow. See it's adorable.
Speaker 1: I love that's even better. Yeah, and it fits in well.
Speaker 1: It fits in well with this theme because the free
Speaker 1: cash flow leads to dividends, and so cows and calf
Speaker 1: are are other ways to get above average dividend yields
Speaker 1: in this environment. So good call Susanne, wow wrapping it up, Todd,
Speaker 1: nice all right, Todd, Susanne, thank you. For joining us
Speaker 1: in front. You're welcome, Thank you, thanks for listening to
Speaker 1: trillions Until next time. You can find us on the
Speaker 1: Bloomberg terminal, Bloomberg dot com, Apple Podcast, Spotify, and wherever
Speaker 1: else you'd like to listen. We'd love to hear from you.
Speaker 1: We're on Twitter, I'm at Joel Webber Show. He's at Aricultunist.
Speaker 1: This episod, sort of Choyance, was produced by Magnus Hendrickson.
Speaker 1: Francesca Levie is the head of Bloomberg Podcast. By h
Speaker 1: m hm h