1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: Hey, everybody doing out there. I'm too full of casella. 2 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:09,240 Speaker 1: Case it did it? Oh, case it did it. That's good. 3 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 1: I did I over case I did it. Like I'm 4 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 1: not normally a case of dilla. I wouldn't order that 5 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:18,640 Speaker 1: at a restaurant, but I don't know. I was just 6 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:22,160 Speaker 1: feeling it tonight. Yeah. It feels like when I order 7 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 1: a case of dia. It always feels like the kid's menu, 8 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:27,480 Speaker 1: you know, like, Oh, you didn't want like a real meal, 9 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 1: so you just put cheese on veggies for you, and 10 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:33,319 Speaker 1: here you go, here's your mac and cheese. Like it's 11 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 1: the Mexican equivalent of a mac and cheese. No, it's 12 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:40,240 Speaker 1: a grilled cheese. Yeah, sure, yeah, same same energy. Yeah, 13 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 1: maybe cheese is making a comeback. Sure, there's gourmet girl 14 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:46,919 Speaker 1: cheese all over the place. All right, all right, uh 15 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 1: show me teach me cheese out there. Y'all have heard 16 00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 1: we're about to take a trip and we're going out 17 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 1: to l A. So it's but we've had Mexican food 18 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:05,119 Speaker 1: twice in Atlanta's got good Mexican, don't get me wrong, Um, 19 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:07,760 Speaker 1: but I've been like, we're about to get some of 20 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 1: the best Mexican food in the country, so I'll be 21 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 1: fine with the CA city at a night. I'm not 22 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:19,200 Speaker 1: worried about the local tacicos. I've got a list of 23 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 1: tacos length of my army that we're going to definitely 24 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 1: be putting in our face holes. Yeah, I can't wait. 25 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:30,000 Speaker 1: So good, so excited, But not right now. I'm not 26 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 1: excited for food at all at all. Just too much, 27 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 1: too much. It was one of those things that I 28 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 1: was like halfway through the plate and I was like, 29 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:39,760 Speaker 1: I'm I'm done eating now, but I'm not going to 30 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: stop eating. It wasn't even that good, just like it's 31 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 1: here and now it's gone. Yeah, yeah, don't put food 32 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 1: in front of me please. Well, but that doesn't mean 33 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: we can't sit here and have a nice conversation about 34 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: a cool person. Yeah, yeah we can. We can have 35 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: a meal of a Oh yeah, we'll really make a 36 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 1: meal out of this, make a meal out of this story. 37 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 1: We're meals and you'll be even more full. Yeah. I'm 38 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 1: so excited to have you back for part two of 39 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 1: the Dr Paully Murray story. I hope you loved part one, Yes, 40 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 1: I did. Fascinating person with a fascinating history and a 41 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 1: whole complicated bunch of stuff going on that just I 42 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 1: don't always I don't know if I've mentioned, but it's 43 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 1: fascinating to learn a new word. Bro, I can't. I'm 44 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:36,960 Speaker 1: too full. It's too late for me. Dr Paully Murray 45 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 1: is like, what the hell are they talking about? Their right? 46 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: The disrespect? I apologize, I am an. Yes, you're right, 47 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 1: you're right. I have some respect for real, for real, 48 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 1: in fact, Yeah, forget me and my case of the 49 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 1: l Let's just get into it, yes, so, yes, Welcome 50 00:02:56,720 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 1: to Part two of Dr Polly Murray. Last time we 51 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 1: talked about Polly's time riding the rails and hanging out 52 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:09,679 Speaker 1: in the Harlem Renaissance, and her present her presentation as 53 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 1: mail for a few years, and her first heartbreak and 54 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:16,639 Speaker 1: one of her first triumphs, which was when her arguments 55 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 1: helped their good Marshall overturned. Plus c V. Ferguson how 56 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 1: life dream achieved. But she has so much more to 57 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 1: accomplish and love to find, love to find exactly. So 58 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 1: let's hear everything else about Polly Murray. Let's go, Hey, 59 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 1: their French come listen. Well, Elia and Diana got some 60 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 1: stories to tell. There's no matchmaking, a romantic tips. It's 61 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 1: just about ridiculous relationships, a love. It might be any 62 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 1: type of person at all, and abstract cons don't a 63 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: concrete wall. But if there's a story. Were the second 64 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 1: Glance Ridiculous Roles a production of I Heart Radio. So 65 00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 1: we picked back up in nineteen fifty six when Polly 66 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 1: was invited to join the law firm Paul Weiss, Rifkin, 67 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: Wharton and Garrison. Many names, my guys, do you think? 68 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 1: I wonder if lawyers meet up and they're like, you know, 69 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 1: they want to start a firm together, but one of 70 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 1: them's name is like, you know, Greg Smith, and they're like, 71 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:21,679 Speaker 1: I'm not putting Smith on the sign outside. We only 72 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 1: take really wild and crazy names Wiss, Rifkin, Wharton, and Garrison. 73 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 1: What if the names don't flow together and they're like, well, 74 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 1: this partnership is over, gentlemen. Good day. Yeah, it was 75 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 1: like Weiss, Rifkin, Wharton and Banks. Actually there's I mean 76 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:41,279 Speaker 1: many a lawyer, many a lawyer name Banks, and I'm 77 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: related to many of them. Well, Paully worked for Paul Weiss, Rifkin, 78 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:49,920 Speaker 1: Wharton and Garrison, and there she was again the only 79 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 1: black person and one of three women in sixty plus lawyers, 80 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 1: and two of those women soon left, so she's really 81 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:03,920 Speaker 1: standing a loan Polly. But a summer associate named Ruth 82 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 1: Bader Ginsburg joined them briefly, and the future Supreme Court 83 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:11,240 Speaker 1: justice was so inspired by Polly that she even called 84 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:15,240 Speaker 1: Polly her legal Heroka. Well, there's more on that later. 85 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 1: I wonder if when she first came in as the 86 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:21,280 Speaker 1: summer associate, if she walked in because her name was 87 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:25,279 Speaker 1: Joan Ruth Bader is her, you know her the name 88 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 1: she was born with. She went by Ruth and then 89 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 1: married Ginsburg. I wonder if she walked in it was like, Hi, 90 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:35,479 Speaker 1: I'm Joan Bader and they were like, now, no, it 91 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 1: doesn't work. It's lackluster. I don't know what you need. 92 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 1: But it's something like, what's what's your middle name? Ruth? Okay, 93 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 1: it's a start. Let's start with Ruth. Could do something 94 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 1: with that, Ruth Bader. It's just something missing. You gotta 95 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:56,360 Speaker 1: marry a Ginsburg. Also in nine six, Polly published her 96 00:05:56,400 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 1: second book, which was called Proud Shoes, The Store of 97 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:03,479 Speaker 1: an American Family, and it explored her family's history. You 98 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:07,160 Speaker 1: know that miniature United Nations that she kind of had 99 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:10,599 Speaker 1: grown up with. And it was released twenty years before 100 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:14,279 Speaker 1: Alex Haley's Roots, so it's credited as the seminal work 101 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 1: on African American genealogy. Cool. That's a very cool little factoid. Yeah, 102 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 1: I had to throw that in there. But that's not all. 103 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:25,840 Speaker 1: She also met Irene Barlow, the lovely office manager at 104 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:30,599 Speaker 1: Paul Weiss, and she was probably the most enduring romance 105 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 1: of Polly's life. They never lived together, but Barbara Law 106 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:37,160 Speaker 1: who's the director of the Polly Murray Project at the 107 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 1: Duke Human Rights Center, says, quote, they had dogs together, 108 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:44,280 Speaker 1: they had cars together, and they went on vacations together. 109 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 1: So I mean, that's that's it, right, If you got 110 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:52,479 Speaker 1: a dog with someone, that's to me, that's stronger than marriage. 111 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 1: I was basically like sharing a kid. I mean a 112 00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 1: little less like sharing a kid, but sort of if 113 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 1: you have some custody things to work out. But yeah, 114 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 1: like a lot of people are like, oh, that was 115 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:08,240 Speaker 1: her closest companion or companion, you know what I mean. 116 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 1: Best friends be very close. Best they're such good friends, 117 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 1: they hold hands when they're walking on the street together. 118 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 1: But yeah, it's generally accepted that they were romantically entangled, 119 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 1: and entanglement much like Peg homes her first love. There's 120 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 1: not a lot about Irene herself out there to find. 121 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 1: So I think we should pull into speculation station and 122 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 1: imagine they're being cute. You know, there's an office romance 123 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 1: we're talking about. I don't know. Maybe maybe Irene's carrying 124 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 1: like like a big bunch of heavy law books like 125 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 1: Chelle and uh Paul. He's got all these like binders 126 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 1: full of case work, but she's got And there they 127 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 1: both come around the corner crash and then they're like 128 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 1: stammering like apologies and collecting, and they don't really notice 129 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 1: each other. And then I've got mine and oh those eyes, Hi, Irene? Hi? 130 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 1: What was your name again? Oh, Polly? Okay, Irene doesn't really. 131 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 1: Irene wasn't great about learning people's names. She's the one 132 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 1: thing that helped her that that held her back. Otherwise 133 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 1: she's so good her job, and everyone was like Irene 134 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 1: was so bad with names. I love this story we're 135 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: building for them. Oh, I love it. Little rom com 136 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:42,679 Speaker 1: and yeah. Their relationship spanned seventeen years, but Polly actually 137 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 1: destroyed many of their letters between each other, and she 138 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 1: doesn't say much about Irene in her memoir other than 139 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:52,599 Speaker 1: to call her my closest friends. So even Polly was 140 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:54,840 Speaker 1: kind of like we were roommates, you know. I think 141 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:57,679 Speaker 1: even she was kind of a little bit cagy about 142 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:02,319 Speaker 1: this romance. And as the New Yorker article, which is 143 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 1: called The Many Lives of Polly Murray points out, quote, 144 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 1: by leaving her a gender identity and romantic history out 145 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:14,200 Speaker 1: of her autobiography, Murray necessarily leaves out something else as well, 146 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 1: the lifetime of emotional distress they caused. From the time 147 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 1: she was nineteen, Murray suffered breakdowns almost annually, some of 148 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: them culminating in hospitalizations, all of them triggered either by 149 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:29,199 Speaker 1: feeling as if she were a man or by having 150 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 1: feelings for a woman. She wrote once to her aunt Pauline, quote, 151 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:37,720 Speaker 1: this conflict rises up to knock me down at every 152 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 1: apex I reach in my career. And she reached a 153 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 1: lot of apexes, so you can see that that would 154 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 1: be a very constant thing. And to her doctor, she wrote, quote, 155 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:51,239 Speaker 1: anything you can do to help me will be gratefully appreciated, 156 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 1: because my life is somewhat unbearable. In its present phase. 157 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 1: It's like we talked about in the last episode, you know, 158 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 1: that sort of comp located swirling issues around uh, gender 159 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 1: and identity and conversations. Especially for someone like Paul. He 160 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:10,439 Speaker 1: is living through this with with no no guidance, basically 161 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 1: no precedent um, you know, and really kind of trying 162 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:17,440 Speaker 1: to understand yourself. And I hope that people can hear 163 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 1: stories like that and understand that this is not a 164 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 1: new phenomenon. This is not something that's made up, uh, 165 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:26,679 Speaker 1: you know, by gen z for for for whatever purposes. 166 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 1: People think that gender identity is made up for. This 167 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 1: is something that people genuinely, earnestly really suffer with dysphoria 168 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:41,440 Speaker 1: and their their own personal identity versus what you know, 169 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 1: society wants to project on them. Uh. It's a really 170 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 1: challenging issue that we're still working on. We're still having 171 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:54,199 Speaker 1: conversations about. Uh. And again, like I said before, I 172 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 1: don't know why you wouldn't be totally content to just 173 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 1: kind of sit back and listen. Um, Well, anybody's got 174 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:01,680 Speaker 1: to stick there now, isn't It is beyond me? It's 175 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 1: true has really well. We did that because because it's 176 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:11,719 Speaker 1: very clear when you see someone like Polly or you know, 177 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 1: if if you know anyone out there today, talk to them. 178 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 1: This is a really difficult situation for them to be in, 179 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 1: and it can cause intense mental and even physical illness 180 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 1: like anguish. Yeah, yeah, Like you can't comprehend what that 181 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:31,680 Speaker 1: means for someone to go through. You honestly cannot. I cannot, 182 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:34,960 Speaker 1: None of us can without going through it. So it 183 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 1: just accept it, Just accept and and offer what you 184 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:42,200 Speaker 1: can and just let people be them damselves really well 185 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:44,560 Speaker 1: and like to go through all that and then on 186 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 1: to throw on top of them an additional layer of intolerance, 187 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:55,600 Speaker 1: potential violence and crazy restrictions on your life. Is like, 188 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 1: it's already hard enough all by itself. It doesn't need 189 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 1: any help from you to be difficult, and no one 190 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:05,079 Speaker 1: is doing it to have a good time. And that 191 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:07,199 Speaker 1: was something that really was driven home to me by 192 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 1: Lily Elbe when she was really describing in her diaries 193 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:14,560 Speaker 1: what it was like to go through those changes. I 194 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 1: was really like, she was made herself sick all the time, 195 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 1: and no one would choose that, do you know what 196 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 1: I'm saying? It is happening whether she wanted it or not, 197 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 1: because the sickness comes from the intolerance, right. The sickness 198 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 1: comes from the stress of saying, well, I feel like this, 199 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 1: that I this is who I am, and this is 200 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 1: what I need myself to be, and yet I can't 201 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:40,319 Speaker 1: be that because some people are going to give me 202 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:44,200 Speaker 1: more than a hard time about it, but actually put 203 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:46,720 Speaker 1: my life in danger potentially because of it. And that 204 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:51,920 Speaker 1: that's what makes it such a dangerous and damaging issue. 205 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 1: People should be allowed to be themselves freely and openly, 206 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 1: and then it wouldn't be psychologically damaging. It wouldn't be 207 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:03,840 Speaker 1: putting people in the damn hospital if they didn't have 208 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:07,320 Speaker 1: to worry about how how twisted the world is gonna 209 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:10,680 Speaker 1: make them out to be and feel. And imagine all 210 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:12,959 Speaker 1: the help that Polly could have gotten from the Magnus 211 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 1: Hirshfield Institute. If oh my god, absolutely back in the 212 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 1: Lilyeube episode, if if you haven't heard that you should, 213 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: But if you haven't, there was a whole hospital in 214 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:28,760 Speaker 1: Germany dedicated to studying LGBT issues in a very open 215 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 1: and accepting way that was like unheard of at the time. 216 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:33,679 Speaker 1: I didn't even know there was anything like this at 217 00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:37,560 Speaker 1: the time. I guess what the Nazis came in and 218 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:39,200 Speaker 1: burned that place to the ground and destroyed all their 219 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 1: records and killed the doctor in charge. We should probably 220 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 1: do an episode just about the magnets Field Hospital, honestly so. 221 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 1: In nineteen sixty Paully left the US for the first 222 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 1: time when she accepted a job at the newly opened 223 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:55,560 Speaker 1: Ghana School of Law, but she only stayed there for 224 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:58,200 Speaker 1: a year before returning in nineteen sixty one when she 225 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 1: was appointed to President Kennedy's Presidential Commission on the Status 226 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 1: of Women. Status It's bad, she in, like, I got, 227 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:10,720 Speaker 1: I got, I got the memo for you. I know 228 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:13,720 Speaker 1: the status it's funked up out there in the streets. 229 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 1: So she wrote a memo arguing that the Fourteenth Amendment 230 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 1: forbade sex discrimination as much as racial discrimination, and she 231 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 1: didn't let civil rights leaders off the hook for sex 232 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 1: discrimination either. In nineteen sixty three, she criticized the March 233 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 1: on Washington because not a single woman was included in 234 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 1: either the major keynotes speaking lineup or in the delegation 235 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 1: sent to speak with the White House. She wrote, quote, 236 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 1: I have been increasingly perturbed over the blatant disparity between 237 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 1: the major role which black women have played and are 238 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 1: playing in the crucial grassroots level of our struggle, and 239 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 1: the minor role of leadership they have been assigned in 240 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 1: the national policy making decisions. It is indefensible to call 241 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 1: a national march on Washington and send a call which 242 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 1: contains the name of not a single woman leader amen 243 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 1: for real in the world. So true, right, and certainly 244 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 1: not for me to criticize the March on Washington, But 245 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 1: we can definitely look at that and say, yeah, y'all 246 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 1: forget somebody. Well again, Polly is intersectional as fuck. She's like, 247 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 1: you should not be leaving out Rosa Parks and Fanny 248 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 1: lou Hamer and me. I mean, she never said herself, 249 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 1: but she would have been a great speaker to what 250 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 1: are y'all doing? You had some wonderful speakers at your fingertips, 251 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 1: so I totally get that. In ninety three, Congress was 252 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 1: debating the Civil Rights Act, which prohibited employment discrimination based 253 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 1: on race, color, religion, sex, and national origin, and some 254 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 1: civil rights leaders wanted to take out the word sex because, 255 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 1: according to Forbes, they thought the inclusion would shift focus 256 00:15:56,960 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 1: away from black people to white women or sink the 257 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:05,800 Speaker 1: bill entirely, which is very interesting and often true. I 258 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 1: guess I've heard that about affirmative action as well, that 259 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 1: if you look at the numbers, it's benefited white women 260 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 1: the most interest of any group. I would have to 261 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 1: double check that, so I will put myself in corrections 262 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 1: quarter later I have to. But I have heard that. 263 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 1: But Polly decimated that argument. She wrote a memo saying 264 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:26,600 Speaker 1: that if they took out the word sex, only half 265 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 1: the black population would be protected, since black women, millions 266 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 1: of home worked and supported families already could still be 267 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:38,120 Speaker 1: fired due to their gender. She wrote, quote, it is 268 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 1: exceedingly difficult for a black woman to determine whether or 269 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 1: not she is being discriminated against because of race or sex. 270 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 1: These two types of discrimination are so closely intertwined and 271 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:53,640 Speaker 1: so similar that black women are uniquely qualified to affirm 272 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 1: their interrelatedness. She also wrote an article in titled Jane 273 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:04,160 Speaker 1: Crow and a Law, Sex Discrimination and Title seven, explaining 274 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:08,359 Speaker 1: how certain legal statutes meant to protect civil rights still 275 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:11,879 Speaker 1: limited the scope of liberties afforded to women. By the way, 276 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 1: She's been enrolled at Yale for a couple of years 277 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 1: at this point, and became the first black woman to 278 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 1: earn a Doctor of Juridical Science degree there in. So 279 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:27,680 Speaker 1: she's doing all this meanwhile she's also in Yale Credible 280 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:30,640 Speaker 1: and hopefully having some lovely dinners at home with Irene 281 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:33,640 Speaker 1: I hope. So I mean again, I think I said 282 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 1: this in last episode two, but I am so fascinated 283 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 1: with her just way with words. I mean, the way 284 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:42,240 Speaker 1: she puts things makes things, makes these issues make so 285 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:45,639 Speaker 1: much sense. And again you could be like, yeah, sure, 286 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:48,439 Speaker 1: if you say intersectional, then I'm all about it. That 287 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:50,480 Speaker 1: sounds like a great idea. And then she puts it 288 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:53,639 Speaker 1: in such a way where you're like, holy ship, that 289 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:58,120 Speaker 1: is super important. I've gone from being just a supporter 290 00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:01,239 Speaker 1: on the sidelines to like actively, Oh my god, this 291 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:04,920 Speaker 1: makes so much sense. How can you not be supporting 292 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 1: feminism while you're supporting racial equality, because then you still 293 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:14,359 Speaker 1: got half the people not dealing with it. Or you 294 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 1: can't support feminism without also supporting trans women because then 295 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 1: you've got a whole bunch of women who still aren't 296 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:25,399 Speaker 1: getting their chip. It's it has to come from all 297 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 1: sides at once. It really does. It really does, and 298 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:31,159 Speaker 1: you've got leave any of it out right and be like, 299 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:34,399 Speaker 1: we'll do this first, right, what do you mean first? 300 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 1: So it's the Jane Crow article that in helped Ruth 301 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:42,480 Speaker 1: Bader Ginsburg, who worked with Pauli also at the a 302 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 1: c l U, successfully argue the landmark Supreme Court case 303 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:52,679 Speaker 1: Read versus Read, which established equal protections for women. Ginsburg 304 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:55,959 Speaker 1: knew that she was so indebted to Pauli's work on 305 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 1: this subject that she even just named her a co 306 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:01,359 Speaker 1: author of the legal brief, even though Paully didn't directly 307 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 1: work on the case. She was like, I know you 308 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 1: didn't work on it, but you did wor. Ginsberg later said, 309 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 1: quote Laurie was the one who sparked the idea that 310 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 1: the fourteenth Amendment should protect the right of men and 311 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:16,280 Speaker 1: women to follow their talent as far as it could 312 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:19,440 Speaker 1: take them. We were not inventing something new. We were 313 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 1: saying the same things Polly had said years earlier, at 314 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:28,120 Speaker 1: a time when society was not prepared to listen. Yeah, hello, 315 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 1: believe it or not. Ruth Bader Ginsburg said it all. 316 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 1: She made her point. Wow, I guess, and then just 317 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 1: like third Good and Spots would Ginsburg one her case 318 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:45,200 Speaker 1: that she based on Polly's argument. Incredible yeah, incredible, yea. 319 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:50,639 Speaker 1: And these seeds she had to plant like that before 320 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 1: they bore any fruit. Pauli's out here just throwing foundations 321 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 1: down left and right, like here, you build something on that. Here, 322 00:19:56,560 --> 00:20:01,159 Speaker 1: you build something on that. Go build something on that ship. Yeah. 323 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:04,720 Speaker 1: But back in nineteen sixty five, Polly was frustrated with 324 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 1: the lack of progress for women. So one day she said, 325 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 1: women should organize a march on Washington, like a similar 326 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:15,159 Speaker 1: civil rights one, but for women's rights. And as usual, 327 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:18,000 Speaker 1: you know, people around here, what in the world's Polly 328 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 1: talking about it? She's so crazy? She said something crazy again. 329 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:23,679 Speaker 1: But then she got a phone call from at the 330 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:28,199 Speaker 1: time the most famous feminist in America, Betty Freedan, and 331 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:30,199 Speaker 1: she was like, what's this now? You want to do? 332 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:34,359 Speaker 1: And they did organize a conference for women in Washington, 333 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 1: d c. And at that conference, Polly told Betty she 334 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 1: thought it was past time that there was an n 335 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:43,720 Speaker 1: double a c P for women, so you know, a 336 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:48,280 Speaker 1: group that could take on cases of segregation but specifically 337 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:51,440 Speaker 1: based on sex, and like tackle that ship head on. 338 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 1: And together with Shirley Chiselm and others, they started the 339 00:20:55,840 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 1: National Organization for Women or Now in nineteen sixty six, nice, 340 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,240 Speaker 1: Now that's what I call organizing. Now, that's what I 341 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:09,639 Speaker 1: call a joke. Yeah. And also that same year, she 342 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:13,240 Speaker 1: successfully argued that women should be allowed on juries alongside 343 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:16,880 Speaker 1: her a c ou colleague, Dorothy Kenyon, who also inspired 344 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 1: RBG and was also named a co author on that 345 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:24,280 Speaker 1: sventy one legislation. Because they both were so amazing back 346 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 1: in the day, I had to give them props. Well, uh, 347 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 1: Ruth had to give them props, and we have to 348 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:33,680 Speaker 1: give you some commercials. So we will be right back 349 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 1: right after this. Welcome back to the poly Murray story, everybody. So, 350 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:48,760 Speaker 1: by nineteen sixty seven, Paully was criticizing now for sidelining 351 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 1: minority and poor and working class women in their efforts 352 00:21:52,119 --> 00:22:00,679 Speaker 1: for equality tail as old as feminism working hard. But then, hey, hey, feminism, 353 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:04,359 Speaker 1: you forgot somebody, a lot of somebody. Yeah, it tends 354 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:09,240 Speaker 1: to happen, So, she wrote, quote, since as a human being, 355 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 1: I cannot allow myself to be fragmented into black at 356 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 1: one time, woman at another, or worker at another. I 357 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:19,879 Speaker 1: must find a unifying principle in all these movements to 358 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 1: which I can adhere. This it seems to me is 359 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:27,440 Speaker 1: not only good politics, but also maybe the price of survival. 360 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 1: Again with the words, don't you just get it when 361 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,920 Speaker 1: she speaks, don't you just fully understand what she's talking about? 362 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:38,239 Speaker 1: I do? And she's absolutely right, Like how could you 363 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:42,720 Speaker 1: separate those identities and have an organization be like, well, 364 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 1: we're just going to deal with one at a time, like, well, 365 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 1: which one? Yeah, because I'm all of them, I'm all 366 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:50,679 Speaker 1: of them? Which one takes a backseat? Right? I can't. 367 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 1: I can't only be a woman today. I am also 368 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:58,160 Speaker 1: black still, she says, and a work. Yeah, it's amazing. 369 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 1: It wouldn't be until nineteen eighty nine that legal scholar 370 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:07,639 Speaker 1: professor Kimberly Crenshaw would coin the term intersectionality as a 371 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 1: way of describing how systems of oppression overlap to create 372 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:16,920 Speaker 1: these distinct experiences for people with multiple identity categories. Polly 373 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 1: wrote in quote, when my brothers try to draw a 374 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:24,439 Speaker 1: circle to exclude me, I shall draw a larger circle 375 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:28,440 Speaker 1: to include them. Where they speak out for the privileges 376 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 1: of a puny group, I shall shout for the rights 377 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 1: of all mankind with humility, but with pride, I shall 378 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 1: offer one small life, whether in Foxhole or in Wheatfield, 379 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:42,159 Speaker 1: for whatever it is worth to fulfill the prophecy that 380 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 1: all men are created equal. Polly stirring shit. I don't 381 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 1: even feel qualified to read that quote. It was so good. 382 00:23:55,240 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 1: Oh man, she's amazing. This person is incredib and I 383 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 1: love that to her attitude of like, I'm trying to 384 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:06,359 Speaker 1: encompass more. Why are you guys trying to leave people out? 385 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 1: You're trying so hard to leave people out, and I 386 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 1: want everyone in here. Why can't we all have what 387 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:16,719 Speaker 1: says straight white men have right? Why can't we have 388 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 1: that it says right here in the Constitution that we're 389 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:24,480 Speaker 1: supposed to have that. I'm not asking for nothing. I 390 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:29,600 Speaker 1: wasn't promised well. Speaking of her way with words, in 391 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:35,439 Speaker 1: Polly published her only volume of poems, Unfair that she 392 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,679 Speaker 1: also gets to be a poet. She's I mean, she 393 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 1: can do anything. Uh. It's called Dark Testaments and many 394 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:45,960 Speaker 1: were written back in her Harlem days, so they kind 395 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 1: of span her life. Remember she was hanging out with 396 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 1: Lankston Hughes and James Baldwin also a friend. So yeah, 397 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 1: she she was hanging out with some literary cats and 398 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 1: did some poems of her own, and they're all worth reading, 399 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 1: but we wanted to highlight two of them, So let's 400 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 1: go down to poetry corner. Here from Dr Polly Murray, 401 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:18,760 Speaker 1: her poem to the oppressors. Now you are strong, and 402 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 1: we are but grapes aching with ripeness. Crush us, squeeze 403 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:27,160 Speaker 1: from us all the brave life contained in these full skins. 404 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:31,160 Speaker 1: But ours is a subtle strength, potent, with centuries of yearning, 405 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 1: of being kegged and shut away in dark, forgotten places. 406 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:40,160 Speaker 1: We shall endure to steal your senses in that lonely 407 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:47,160 Speaker 1: twilight of your winter's grief. Snap, Snap Snap. And here's 408 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:52,080 Speaker 1: another poem from Dr Murray in nineteen seventy called simply Words. 409 00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:58,720 Speaker 1: We are spend drifts with words. We squander them, toss 410 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:03,199 Speaker 1: them like pennies in the air, arrogant words, angry words, 411 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:09,440 Speaker 1: cruel words, comrade leye words, shy words tiptoeing from mouth 412 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:14,119 Speaker 1: to ear. But the slowly wrought words of love and 413 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 1: the thunderous words of heartbreak, those we hoard. Mm hmm, 414 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,880 Speaker 1: I like that too, because what about you know, if 415 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 1: you think about everything going on with Irene in the 416 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 1: kind of the background of her life, is this sort 417 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 1: of secret not so secret, open secret romance. And I 418 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 1: wonder if she's like, I don't get to say with 419 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,840 Speaker 1: my whole chest how I feel. Yeah, yeah, so I 420 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,760 Speaker 1: have to hoard those I'll throw. I've thrown words at 421 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,200 Speaker 1: you all day long. It seems like I'm just giving 422 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:50,199 Speaker 1: you all my words. But I've got some that I 423 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,400 Speaker 1: gotta keep to myself, right, And I mean, I think 424 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 1: it's a pretty universal thing. She all. I think we 425 00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,199 Speaker 1: all hoard words of love and words of heartbreak. Nobody 426 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:01,600 Speaker 1: wants to say be the first to say, and nobody 427 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:05,119 Speaker 1: wants to be the first to say. Um. But but 428 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,200 Speaker 1: that's what I was reading it, and I was just like, oh, 429 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 1: I wonder if she's kind of thinking about some yearning 430 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:11,480 Speaker 1: of her own to be like I want to be 431 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 1: just hanging out with my wife like everybody else. So 432 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:20,719 Speaker 1: by the time that this volume was published, Polly had 433 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 1: accepted a teaching position at Brandy's University, and she not 434 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:29,359 Speaker 1: only taught law there, but she basically created the American 435 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,959 Speaker 1: Studies program. She was fighting all the time to include 436 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,200 Speaker 1: courses on African American and women's studies, which were both 437 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 1: firsts for the school. Polly wrote that her time there 438 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:46,399 Speaker 1: was quote the most exciting, tormenting, satisfying, embattled, frustrated, and 439 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 1: at times triumphant period of my secular career. So I 440 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:54,560 Speaker 1: think that's great. I mean, that sounds like her life 441 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 1: and all those words, you know what I mean. Um, 442 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,440 Speaker 1: So she's crushing at Bran and Dy's. She received full 443 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:05,240 Speaker 1: tenure there in nineteen seventy one, securing the most financially 444 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:08,439 Speaker 1: stable and respectable job of her life. So she seemed 445 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:10,919 Speaker 1: to be like set, She's gonna be hanging out at 446 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:14,120 Speaker 1: Brandy's and doing her things. And this is seventy one 447 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:17,080 Speaker 1: and she was born in nineteen so she's sixty at 448 00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:20,480 Speaker 1: this point. Like what what what's left? Well, it came 449 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:24,360 Speaker 1: as a real surprise to everyone when in nineteen seventy 450 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:31,440 Speaker 1: three she quit Brandy's to become an Episcopalian priest. Yep, 451 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:43,240 Speaker 1: So let's find out more about that right after this. Yeah, 452 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 1: welcome back to the show, everybody. All right, So Irene Barlow, Polly's, 453 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:54,480 Speaker 1: you know, alleged love of her life, was actually dying. Um. 454 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 1: She had been diagnosed with a brain tumor, and she 455 00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 1: made Polly her executor. Now, long after Irene passed away, 456 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:06,240 Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy three, Paully resigned from Brandy's and entered 457 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:10,800 Speaker 1: New York's General Theological Seminary to become an episcopal priest. 458 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 1: She and Irene had been active at this church, and 459 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:17,840 Speaker 1: she had many friendships with women there, so this might 460 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 1: have been something that she thought about doing for a 461 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,200 Speaker 1: long time. And she even once said that when she 462 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,360 Speaker 1: taught her students, she asked them what do you think 463 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:29,640 Speaker 1: and got conversations going with them, and later realizing that 464 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:33,239 Speaker 1: she was acting more like an ecclesiastical counselor than she 465 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 1: was a lawyer in class. You know, it wasn't about like, 466 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,440 Speaker 1: let me make a case for this for this case, 467 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 1: but let me let's have a conversation about it, right, 468 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 1: And she wanted to like explore people's ideas, what they 469 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,280 Speaker 1: thought and why they thought what they thought, you know. 470 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:51,160 Speaker 1: So she was like, I just felt more like we 471 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,680 Speaker 1: were talking about bigger things than just the letter of 472 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:57,479 Speaker 1: the law of the spirit of the law. So that 473 00:29:57,600 --> 00:29:59,400 Speaker 1: might have been what let her to take this position, 474 00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 1: or it might have been inspired by the deaths of 475 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:04,720 Speaker 1: both her life partner and her aunts, who were the 476 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:07,160 Speaker 1: most important people in her life who died around the 477 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:09,640 Speaker 1: same time that might have caused her to make this 478 00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:14,000 Speaker 1: kind of big, drastic professional change so late in her life. Yeah, 479 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:17,120 Speaker 1: she said, when she's going through some of Irene's papers, 480 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,000 Speaker 1: because she was her executor, she went through some of 481 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,040 Speaker 1: her stuff and she was like, I thought I knew 482 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 1: her pretty well, but I didn't realize all these small, lovely, 483 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:29,600 Speaker 1: kind things that she had been doing, which is just, uh, 484 00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:33,800 Speaker 1: a little clue about Irene's character. Yes, it's a very 485 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 1: little clue. Unfortunately we don't have more. But I guess 486 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,240 Speaker 1: Irene was always out there being sweet as hale, helping 487 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:42,600 Speaker 1: people out and doing cool things. She just sounds like 488 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,160 Speaker 1: a wholesome, pretty lady that Paula got to spend a 489 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:49,400 Speaker 1: lot of time with. So that makes me happy. So yeah, 490 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:51,760 Speaker 1: maybe she was also like, I want to do good. 491 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:53,920 Speaker 1: I want to do good in small ways every day, 492 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,680 Speaker 1: like Irene did. Maybe there was some inspiration in that 493 00:30:56,800 --> 00:31:00,440 Speaker 1: or something, although it could partly have been so the 494 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,520 Speaker 1: fact that the Episcopal Church did not ordain women at 495 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:10,200 Speaker 1: the time, don't you for real well, allow me to 496 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:13,120 Speaker 1: just change another system real quick. I'd like to kick 497 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:16,480 Speaker 1: in one last door. So yeah, I think she may 498 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 1: you know, some people think that she maybe saw an 499 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,880 Speaker 1: opportunity to put pressure on another system that was segregating, 500 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:23,960 Speaker 1: and so she was like, well, let me get up 501 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:27,120 Speaker 1: in there and start making making some good trouble. But 502 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:31,280 Speaker 1: this time in her life, her timing was perfect. The 503 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:38,040 Speaker 1: church's General Convention voted to change that policy effective January one, seven, 504 00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:42,120 Speaker 1: only three weeks after she would complete her Divinity training. 505 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 1: So if I can pull into speculation stage room, do 506 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,320 Speaker 1: you think that she enrolled? And they were like, oh, ship, 507 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:53,000 Speaker 1: Polly Murray's up in here. Well you know she's gonna 508 00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 1: make us do it anyway, guys, let's just go ahead 509 00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:57,320 Speaker 1: and get the wheels training. We got about three years 510 00:31:57,320 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 1: while she goes to the divinity training, and to make 511 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 1: this happened, someone call up the pope or whoever. Let's 512 00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:05,160 Speaker 1: just quit get the paperwork done before she comes in 513 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:06,760 Speaker 1: and starts yelling at us, because I don't want to 514 00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,200 Speaker 1: get yelled at by Polly Murray. I'm not interested in 515 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:12,640 Speaker 1: another stirring quote. What she's done. She's gonna make us 516 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:18,040 Speaker 1: look like idiots, or or was it more like, oh, ship, 517 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:20,440 Speaker 1: Polly Murray wants to be a priest. Oh, this is 518 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,440 Speaker 1: about to be right, we need to get somebody get 519 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:25,360 Speaker 1: the paperwork. I want to sign it right now. Oh 520 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:27,760 Speaker 1: my god, can you imagine the people. She'll be out 521 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 1: there saying amazing stuff, the sermons. I can't wait. Oh 522 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:38,600 Speaker 1: so I can't decide which how the church reacted to 523 00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:44,120 Speaker 1: Polly wear his name in the list. So however they 524 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:46,320 Speaker 1: decided to do it, they did decide to do it. 525 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:50,920 Speaker 1: They decided that women could be ordained. So on January eighth, 526 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 1: at the National Cathedral, Polly became the first black American 527 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:59,400 Speaker 1: woman to be vested as an Episcopal priest. New Yorker 528 00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:03,240 Speaker 1: notes that quote. A month later, she administered her first 529 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:06,600 Speaker 1: Eucharist at the Chapel of the Cross, the little church 530 00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 1: in North Carolina, where more than a century earlier, a 531 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:14,960 Speaker 1: priest had baptized her grandmother, Cornelia, then still a baby 532 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:20,920 Speaker 1: and still a slave. Crazy. That ship never fails to 533 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:24,680 Speaker 1: touch me, like and when somebody is like, oh my god, 534 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,880 Speaker 1: a hundred years ago we were dealing with the most 535 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:31,360 Speaker 1: iniquitous ship in history, and now I am the boss 536 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:36,120 Speaker 1: bitch doing everything. I mean, that really is amazing. It's 537 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,320 Speaker 1: incredible because it's so, it's so, it's such a warm 538 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:42,560 Speaker 1: and powerful thing. For them, and it's also just such 539 00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:47,080 Speaker 1: a big fuck you to the past. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 540 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:49,840 Speaker 1: you tried to pull some ship, but look where we 541 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:53,720 Speaker 1: are now. It didn't work. Made it never works. Everybody 542 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:56,920 Speaker 1: stop oppressing people because it never works. Eventually. Can we 543 00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,760 Speaker 1: just skip to the part where you lose? I know, 544 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:02,400 Speaker 1: But the problem is it works for people for so long. 545 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:05,200 Speaker 1: My lifetime went by and it worked great, and I 546 00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:07,320 Speaker 1: died and I had everything I wanted to tell them 547 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:11,200 Speaker 1: that right, I'm sorry, we're trying to convince them that 548 00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:16,600 Speaker 1: they suck. They've certainly turned it off by now off, 549 00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:21,799 Speaker 1: so that would be the last of Police's first She 550 00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:24,600 Speaker 1: never got a permanent preaching position, so she took a 551 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:28,600 Speaker 1: few part time jobs and did sermons that bucks per appearance. 552 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,000 Speaker 1: I would have booked it for my birthday. I would 553 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:34,320 Speaker 1: have been like, come give a sermon, booked her for 554 00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,680 Speaker 1: my bedtime stories every night, Just come behind, please just 555 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:39,920 Speaker 1: tell me something brilliant. But yeah, she was close to 556 00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,719 Speaker 1: retirement age anyway, So this is why I think she 557 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:45,200 Speaker 1: never ended up with a full time position or anything 558 00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:50,800 Speaker 1: like that. But on July one, she died at seventy 559 00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:54,279 Speaker 1: six years old of pancreatic cancer. And she was laid 560 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,080 Speaker 1: to rest in a Brooklyn cemetery, next to her two 561 00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:00,920 Speaker 1: aunts and under the same headstone as the love of 562 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,960 Speaker 1: her life, Irene Barlow. I mean, is that not a 563 00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:07,399 Speaker 1: clue that maybe they had a deeper We were such 564 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:13,680 Speaker 1: good friends together under the same headstone. She made me 565 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:18,520 Speaker 1: her executor. We had dogs together. Somebody somebody early in 566 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:21,680 Speaker 1: the show messaged us and said, will you guys please 567 00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:26,640 Speaker 1: do stories about women who were friends people who were ms. 568 00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:30,080 Speaker 1: This is definitely, I think got to be one of 569 00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:34,279 Speaker 1: those stories. Paully's memoir Song in a Weary Throat was 570 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:39,719 Speaker 1: published posthumously, and though she didn't include much about again Irene, 571 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:43,480 Speaker 1: or her sexuality or anything like that, or her gender struggles, 572 00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:46,279 Speaker 1: but she did choose to include all those musings in 573 00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:49,600 Speaker 1: the files and her personal papers, which she donated to 574 00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:53,960 Speaker 1: Harvard's Schlicinger Library. The hundred and forty boxes of papers 575 00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,799 Speaker 1: include letters between Irene and PAULI that, according to the 576 00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:02,359 Speaker 1: Smithsonian quote, show past the couple's affection and playful sign 577 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:07,480 Speaker 1: offs such as double O seven or Charlie Brown cute. 578 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:10,280 Speaker 1: But I wish I could read some of these letters. 579 00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:12,960 Speaker 1: You have to actually go to Harvard and we did 580 00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:15,080 Speaker 1: not oh it to physically go to Harvard. Yeah, I 581 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:16,960 Speaker 1: tried to look. You can look them up and I'll 582 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,760 Speaker 1: tell you like witch box s it's in, but you couldn't. 583 00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:22,520 Speaker 1: They weren't like digitized online to read. So you have 584 00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:24,759 Speaker 1: to actually, I guess go check them out or like 585 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:27,600 Speaker 1: go ask you know, to read them at the library. Right, 586 00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:30,799 Speaker 1: So unfortunately I can't read them, any of them to you. Well, 587 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:33,000 Speaker 1: if any of our friends in Boston have access and 588 00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:37,839 Speaker 1: want to I want to letters, please go to reach out, right. 589 00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:40,879 Speaker 1: I Also, I love that they signed off cute names 590 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:45,160 Speaker 1: like that, like yours truly double O seven because what 591 00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:48,440 Speaker 1: weren't they probably sneaking around with this relationship like they 592 00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:51,479 Speaker 1: probably felt like spies sometimes maybe they might be having 593 00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:53,839 Speaker 1: fun with that. You know, you may as well if 594 00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:56,040 Speaker 1: you have to do it better? Was self destruct doble? 595 00:36:56,600 --> 00:37:02,319 Speaker 1: You know, No, that's awesome. I love it. I love it. Um. 596 00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:05,040 Speaker 1: I'm glad she didn't destroy all their letters, right, because 597 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:07,640 Speaker 1: it's always sad when you feel like the need to 598 00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:11,640 Speaker 1: do something like that. Really, it must just be a wrench. 599 00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:14,400 Speaker 1: I know how I would feel to like destroy something 600 00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:17,520 Speaker 1: my grandmother wrote on or something. Yeah, I would hate 601 00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:19,440 Speaker 1: to do that right now. The letters I have in 602 00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:22,640 Speaker 1: a box somewhere, probably, I mean, I doubt they tell 603 00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:30,840 Speaker 1: an interesting story, but I Polly wrote that she quote 604 00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:35,640 Speaker 1: lived to see my lost causes found. But she also 605 00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:37,919 Speaker 1: felt that she didn't accomplish as much as she could 606 00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:41,400 Speaker 1: have in a more egalitarian society. And that's Polly for 607 00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:42,920 Speaker 1: you right there, just like I'm gonna get as far 608 00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:44,960 Speaker 1: as I can, but I will always remind you I 609 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:48,160 Speaker 1: could have gotten farther if it weren't for you, specifically 610 00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:53,200 Speaker 1: being an obstacle in my way. In seventies, she wrote, quote, 611 00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:56,200 Speaker 1: if anyone should ask a black woman in America, what 612 00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:59,520 Speaker 1: has been her greatest achievement, her honest answer would be 613 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:05,400 Speaker 1: I survived. But Polly, even in death, wasn't done change 614 00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:08,359 Speaker 1: in the world. First of all, her home in North 615 00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:12,839 Speaker 1: Carolina was designated a National Historic Site in damn right, 616 00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:15,880 Speaker 1: it is okay, I would like to visit it. Also, um, 617 00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:20,200 Speaker 1: she was also sainted by the Episcopalian Church. Obviously makes sense. 618 00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:25,120 Speaker 1: They're like this, this, this one here, another fast track 619 00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:28,840 Speaker 1: for Polly. Please everybody pay attention to this. Yale University 620 00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:32,680 Speaker 1: has a college named for her, but as usual, it's 621 00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:36,400 Speaker 1: her words that are still resonating even decades after her death. 622 00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:41,439 Speaker 1: That's right, because three employees were fired for being gay 623 00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:46,000 Speaker 1: or transgender, and their lawsuit against their employers was argued 624 00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:49,920 Speaker 1: in front of the Supreme Court. As Forbes writes, quote, 625 00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:55,680 Speaker 1: on June, six justices, including Chief Justice John Roberts, ruled 626 00:38:55,719 --> 00:39:01,279 Speaker 1: in favor of the employees, effectively banning workplace discrimination due 627 00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:05,680 Speaker 1: to sexual orientation or gender identity. The opinion, delivered by 628 00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:09,680 Speaker 1: Neil Gorsuch hinged on the word sex in the nineteen 629 00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:12,960 Speaker 1: sixty four Civil Rights Act that Pauli Murray had fought 630 00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:17,920 Speaker 1: so hard to include. So even in death, she's protecting 631 00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:22,480 Speaker 1: people from segregation and discrimination. It's incredible. I mean, does 632 00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:25,239 Speaker 1: that not send shivers up your spine that if she 633 00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:29,000 Speaker 1: had given up that that argument in nineteen sixty four, 634 00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:35,880 Speaker 1: it would have completely been totally different, especially for women. 635 00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:39,160 Speaker 1: But then again, resonating so far into the future that 636 00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:43,440 Speaker 1: that one single word protects so many people, I mean, 637 00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:46,680 Speaker 1: that's insane. It's wild. Throughout her life she was not 638 00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:50,200 Speaker 1: just at the forefront of history, she was quite literally 639 00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:53,239 Speaker 1: making it all the time. It's legit, like give me 640 00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:56,799 Speaker 1: a little flower, give me a little baking soda, because 641 00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:02,200 Speaker 1: I'm about to make history historians. Susan Ware once said, quote, 642 00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:06,000 Speaker 1: it may be that when historians look back on twentieth 643 00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:12,400 Speaker 1: century America, all roads will lead to Paully Murray. Ain't 644 00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:17,560 Speaker 1: that the truth? All roads lead to Polly Murray. We're 645 00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:19,040 Speaker 1: gonna have to every episode we do from now. I 646 00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:20,520 Speaker 1: don't gonna be like, well, how would it be if 647 00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:23,640 Speaker 1: Polly Murray hadn't been around? Polly had not said sex 648 00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:30,120 Speaker 1: is important? Right? What an incredible person and a remarkable story. 649 00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:34,680 Speaker 1: And I hope, I hope you'll appreciate that while this 650 00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:39,879 Speaker 1: story wasn't about as much their specific romance and how 651 00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:44,080 Speaker 1: it played out, it's uh an episode that is a 652 00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:48,960 Speaker 1: foundational in the story of romance in general, right of 653 00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:55,680 Speaker 1: of love stories. Anything post certainly nine is definitely has 654 00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:57,400 Speaker 1: something to do with this. And I think this is 655 00:40:57,440 --> 00:40:59,719 Speaker 1: such a fascinating story of a person's you know, we 656 00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:03,399 Speaker 1: don't know much about her actual love story, but her 657 00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:07,680 Speaker 1: entire story is around sex and gender and love and 658 00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:10,520 Speaker 1: all these things that are that are so important in 659 00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:14,719 Speaker 1: this category. I think she was just such a I 660 00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:18,200 Speaker 1: don't just a firestarter. Just people. There's some people in 661 00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:20,759 Speaker 1: this world that just burn, you know what I mean, 662 00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:24,000 Speaker 1: And she was like just one of those lights to me. 663 00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:31,200 Speaker 1: She was like, I'm gonna burn this motherfucker now, I 664 00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:34,960 Speaker 1: mean with her fire then she did. I mean, just 665 00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:38,759 Speaker 1: admire her so much, And like you said, it's really 666 00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:41,840 Speaker 1: too bad that we can't tell you more about Irene 667 00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:44,720 Speaker 1: because what an interesting person she must have been to 668 00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:48,960 Speaker 1: to to be. I mean again, they weren't like living together, 669 00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:52,240 Speaker 1: but it was it was pretty well known that Polly 670 00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:56,959 Speaker 1: was a lesbian, or though she preferred she didn't really 671 00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:00,279 Speaker 1: prefer that word herself. That's certainly how people category eyed 672 00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:02,399 Speaker 1: her later on her life and everything. So it wasn't 673 00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:05,880 Speaker 1: a secret. But it just took a lot of bravery, 674 00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:09,160 Speaker 1: I think, to live like that. And so we get 675 00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:12,560 Speaker 1: a lot of Polly's bravery, and deservedly, so we don't 676 00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:15,600 Speaker 1: get any of Irenees, which is just too bad. Um 677 00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:18,000 Speaker 1: and Peg to Peg also got kicked out that camp 678 00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:20,960 Speaker 1: and she was doing she was she was living life 679 00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:23,120 Speaker 1: on the edge when it was very, very tough. So 680 00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:27,120 Speaker 1: props to both those ladies, whatever they were like. Otherwise, 681 00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:30,960 Speaker 1: I'm so glad it's gotten so much better. I'm pretty 682 00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:34,719 Speaker 1: sure for people in uh, for for for people who 683 00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:39,319 Speaker 1: are LGBT anywhere on that category are a lot more 684 00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:43,000 Speaker 1: free to be public with their relationships. But I know 685 00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:45,600 Speaker 1: a lot of people still aren't too, especially in their 686 00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:48,040 Speaker 1: home communities. You know, it's a lot different than be 687 00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:50,799 Speaker 1: like you know, you can go on TV and and 688 00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:53,520 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. You can be out on TV, and 689 00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:55,960 Speaker 1: it's not like it was even ten years ago. But 690 00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:59,359 Speaker 1: I mean, I I still know people today who are 691 00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:04,359 Speaker 1: in sex relationships or who are trans who even if 692 00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:07,440 Speaker 1: they're out with their families and it's all okay, they 693 00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:11,200 Speaker 1: might still have a grandparent or even a relative even 694 00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:16,960 Speaker 1: whose appear who refuses to acknowledge it, either violently or passively, 695 00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:21,160 Speaker 1: which is still violently. Um. And that's that's stop stop it. 696 00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:23,799 Speaker 1: That's so insane. Or the rest of the world where 697 00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:27,600 Speaker 1: state you live in our community, yeah, absolutely very closed 698 00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:30,560 Speaker 1: minded and still hard to get jobs and things like that. 699 00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:32,920 Speaker 1: It's for as far as we've come, there's still a 700 00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:37,000 Speaker 1: long way to go. Um. But uh, but hopefully there's 701 00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:40,120 Speaker 1: more polies out there working on it. Now we can 702 00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:42,160 Speaker 1: all take a little piece of Polly with us and 703 00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:44,680 Speaker 1: try and be a better person and and on a 704 00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:48,920 Speaker 1: positive note for resonance. I mean, speaking of resonance, this 705 00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:51,600 Speaker 1: is like a story of somebody who's straight up was 706 00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:56,759 Speaker 1: hitting walls all day long and instead of quitting, was like, 707 00:43:56,880 --> 00:43:59,319 Speaker 1: I'm going to keep working and I'll just write this 708 00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:03,880 Speaker 1: down real and leave it and someone else will do 709 00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:06,799 Speaker 1: something with it. And it ended up like everything as 710 00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:11,000 Speaker 1: she said, her lost causes were found. She she she 711 00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:14,360 Speaker 1: wanted to overturn Plussy Ferguson and it happened. She wanted 712 00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:17,840 Speaker 1: equal protections for women, and it happened. Even after her death, 713 00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:22,520 Speaker 1: protections for people with gender identity struggles like she had 714 00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:26,840 Speaker 1: are even benefiting from her work. So like these little 715 00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:30,520 Speaker 1: steeds that she planted ended up growing more slowly than 716 00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:33,880 Speaker 1: maybe she wanted, but they still grew. And I just 717 00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:36,279 Speaker 1: think that's a really valuable lesson because I'm very much 718 00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:38,520 Speaker 1: a person who wants things to happen just as soon 719 00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:41,320 Speaker 1: as possible. I like things to pay off very quickly, 720 00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:46,400 Speaker 1: and they can't. Often they won't, especially if there's something 721 00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:50,160 Speaker 1: good and lasting. They will take some time, but once 722 00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:54,440 Speaker 1: they've rooted, it's like inevitable. So I want to try 723 00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:58,920 Speaker 1: to remember that energy and polymery energy plant some seeds 724 00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:02,760 Speaker 1: just work, even if you're not seeing the immediate results. 725 00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:06,760 Speaker 1: Plant the tree that will shade someone else the right. Yeah, 726 00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:09,880 Speaker 1: that's what I always love about landscape architecture is I 727 00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:11,719 Speaker 1: think I've talked I'm sure I've talked about this before, 728 00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:15,319 Speaker 1: but somebody in building a park has to straight up 729 00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:18,960 Speaker 1: think about what it will look like years from now 730 00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:22,200 Speaker 1: and when it's actually the vision they have, right, and 731 00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:25,200 Speaker 1: they may never see that themselves, but it's not about that, 732 00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:31,399 Speaker 1: And I just think that's amazing. What a long con you. Yeah, 733 00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:34,520 Speaker 1: I'm plant these saplings all around this lake and I 734 00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:39,480 Speaker 1: know that long after I'm gone, it'll look incredible like this. Yeah. Yeah, 735 00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:42,879 Speaker 1: that's so cool. Thank you for doing that, because now 736 00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:45,560 Speaker 1: we have beautiful parks that you never got to enjoy, 737 00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:49,040 Speaker 1: but we enjoy every day. So who we're really coming 738 00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:53,040 Speaker 1: out swinging for in this episode is landscape architects. Uh, 739 00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:55,120 Speaker 1: just we all need to treat them a little better. 740 00:45:56,480 --> 00:46:02,600 Speaker 1: Murray was the landscape architect of legislation. Okay, so you 741 00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:05,520 Speaker 1: was thinking about the future social issues? Yeah, yeah, she 742 00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:09,000 Speaker 1: really was. Well that's awesome, Polly. I hope you all 743 00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:11,520 Speaker 1: love Polly too. Yeah, we would love to hear your 744 00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:15,719 Speaker 1: thoughts of course, as all. Well, usually we don't mean it, 745 00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:18,920 Speaker 1: but this time you really want to hear your thoughts. 746 00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:22,040 Speaker 1: Usually we're just bullshit. Yeah you know, I would just 747 00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:24,799 Speaker 1: say whatever to just get those notifications. That's all we 748 00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:27,920 Speaker 1: really want. I'm just thirsty for attention. I don't pay 749 00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:31,200 Speaker 1: attention to what that attention is. Sweet sera tune and yes, 750 00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:35,000 Speaker 1: give me another hit? No no no. We love hearing 751 00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:37,359 Speaker 1: from you, um, and we would love to hear from 752 00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:40,120 Speaker 1: you on this one. So please shoot us an email. 753 00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:43,600 Speaker 1: It's romance and I heeart media dot Com right, or 754 00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:46,640 Speaker 1: we're on Instagram and Twitter. I'm at Dynamite Boom and 755 00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:51,960 Speaker 1: I'm at Oh great, it's Eli. Now we're both at 756 00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:56,080 Speaker 1: raddic Romance. That's right, um, so follow along, shoot us 757 00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:59,600 Speaker 1: some words, uh, tell us your thoughts, break into Harvard 758 00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:03,680 Speaker 1: and in those letters and read them for us the 759 00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:07,799 Speaker 1: internet for all to read. Uh, and we will catch 760 00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:10,440 Speaker 1: you with the next episode. Thanks so much for listening. 761 00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:14,440 Speaker 1: By so long, friends, it's time to go. Thanks so 762 00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:18,440 Speaker 1: listening to our show. Tell your friends neighbor's uncles in 763 00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:21,480 Speaker 1: dance to listen to a show ridiculous Well Dance