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Speaker 1: Hey, Daniel, do you ever worry about the ethics of

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Speaker 1: using a telescope?

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Speaker 2: What do you mean? What are the ethical questions about

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Speaker 2: looking through a telescope?

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Speaker 1: I mean, like what they're looking at?

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm not pointing them at my neighbor, if that's what.

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Speaker 1: You mean, not your next door neighbor. What about your

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Speaker 1: next galaxy neighbor.

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Speaker 2: Are you asking if we have the right to look

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Speaker 2: at distant objects in the sky?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, like what if there are aliens there

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Speaker 1: on a planet or a moon and we're like spying

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Speaker 1: on them?

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Speaker 2: Well, I hope they're not offended if we catch them

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Speaker 2: sunbathing or I guess starbathing.

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Speaker 1: Aren't all stars suns? But yeah, don't you think aliens

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Speaker 1: have a right to privacy?

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Speaker 2: I don't know. Maybe they're alien celebrities, so they're like

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Speaker 2: starbathing stars.

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Speaker 1: Wait, are you saying celebrities can have privacy either? Are

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Speaker 1: you secretly a starker?

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Speaker 2: No, I'm saying astronomers are just interstellar paparazzi.

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Speaker 1: Well, oh, it sounds like they need to draw their

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Speaker 1: curtains more. Why just have you don't get the rest

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Speaker 1: of us punch in the face, Hi am horhem a

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Speaker 1: cartoonist and the author of Oliver's Great Big Universe.

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Speaker 2: Hi, I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and a professor

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Speaker 2: at u C Irvine. And if it gets the aliens

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Speaker 2: to come, I want them to punch us in the face.

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Speaker 1: Us in the face. How about just you in the face?

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Speaker 1: I mean, please, don't volunteer my face for your science.

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Speaker 2: Us volunteering humanity's collective face.

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Speaker 1: Some of us are sensitive in the face.

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Speaker 2: It might be worth a puncher too, to learn that

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Speaker 2: we're not alone in the universe.

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Speaker 1: Can we pick where they're going to punch us, you know,

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Speaker 1: like when you're playing as kids.

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Speaker 2: You mean in the Daniel part of the face, rather

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Speaker 2: than the joey part of the face.

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Speaker 1: Definitely the Daniel part. But anyways, Welcome to our podcast,

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Speaker 1: Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: In which we try to teach you all about the

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Speaker 2: mysteries of the universe, rather than punching you in the

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Speaker 2: face with them. We think that it's possible to gently

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Speaker 2: absorb all of the crazy intricacies of how the universe works,

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Speaker 2: from its tiny little particles to its mysterious swirling black holes.

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Speaker 2: Without getting bruised, basically anywhere on your body. We seek

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Speaker 2: to serve up the mysteries of the universe in a

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Speaker 2: gentle and comfortable manner.

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Speaker 1: That's right. We bring you the one two punch of

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Speaker 1: science and bad dad jokes to talk about all the

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Speaker 1: amazing things that are happening in the universe, all the

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Speaker 1: peaceful things and also all of the combatitive things, and.

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Speaker 2: The mysteries that we love to dig into. Are the

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Speaker 2: ones that tell us about our context in the universe.

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Speaker 2: Is where we are in the universe weird and unusual?

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Speaker 2: Or are there many such backyards with many such podcasts

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Speaker 2: giving all the same dad jokes?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that has been one of the biggest questions in

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Speaker 1: the universe is are we alone in the universe? Or

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Speaker 1: are we one of many many alien civilization out there

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Speaker 1: in space? And are we the only ones making dad jokes?

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Speaker 2: And how many of them are spying on us while

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Speaker 2: we're sunbathing in our backyards.

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Speaker 1: Well, I guess you know, technically, in an infinite universe

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Speaker 1: that there's probably a planet out there where dad jokes

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Speaker 1: are like the epitome of intelligence and literature.

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Speaker 2: Are you saying that's not our universe? Are you saying

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Speaker 2: that's not our planet.

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Speaker 1: That is definitely not. I think there's a reason they're

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Speaker 1: called dad jokes, not just jokes. But maybe there's an

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Speaker 1: alien species out there where you know, it's like the

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Speaker 1: height of width, you know.

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Speaker 2: Right, Well, we should try to sell our books on

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Speaker 2: that planet then, because we have a lot of readers.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, would be intergalactic bestsellers, not just international bestsellers.

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Speaker 2: But we're not just interested in whether our books will

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Speaker 2: sell to alien species. We're interested in whether there are

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Speaker 2: aliens out there, whether life exists in other parts of

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Speaker 2: the galaxy. And part of that question is asking whether

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Speaker 2: our whole setup is unusual. Are there stars with planets

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Speaker 2: around them? Do those planets have similar conditions to the

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Speaker 2: planets here? Is there something weird and strange about the

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Speaker 2: Solar System? Or is it very common?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Is the planet Earth a rare gem that exists

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Speaker 1: out there in the cosmos or is it sort of

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Speaker 1: like a you know, cheap chot sky that you can

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Speaker 1: find anywhere.

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Speaker 2: In just a few decades ago, we didn't know the

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Speaker 2: answers to basic questions like are there planets around other stars? Fortunately,

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Speaker 2: as we develop new and more powerful eyeballs, We've been

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Speaker 2: able to discover those planets, and now we are pushing further.

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Speaker 2: We are asking deeper and more subtle questions about the

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Speaker 2: nature of those planets, their atmospheres, their surfaces, even what's

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Speaker 2: in orbit around them.

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Speaker 1: So today on the podcast, we'll be tackling the question

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Speaker 1: could we see moons around exo planets? Now, Daniel, I

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Speaker 1: imagine these are like moons, like the orbiting celestial bodies,

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Speaker 1: and not like aliens mooning.

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Speaker 2: Or maybe alien death stars. Right, we don't care. We

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Speaker 2: just wanted to discover them.

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Speaker 1: Wait wait, wait, wait, I think we maybe should. If

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Speaker 1: there are alien death stars, maybe we don't want to

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Speaker 1: meet them. Maybe these are not the aliens we're looking for.

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Speaker 2: I think we'd rather know they're there than live in ignorance,

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Speaker 2: wouldn't we.

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Speaker 1: If we know they're there, then they know we're here.

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Speaker 2: We could just use that Jedi mind trick, that's.

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Speaker 1: Right, make them forget and dazzle them with our dad

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Speaker 1: jokes and then it'll be like what what And then

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Speaker 1: they won't want to associate with us, and then problem solve.

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Speaker 2: These aren't the jokes you're looking for.

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Speaker 1: That's right, or they'll want to annihilate us right away, But.

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Speaker 2: We are curious about the environments of these planets. Having

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Speaker 2: moons affects life on Earth and tells us a lot

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Speaker 2: about the history of that solar system, and just in general,

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Speaker 2: we want to know, like our solar system is pretty mooney,

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Speaker 2: are other solar systems mooney as well?

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Speaker 1: Mooney and wonderful? Because I think, as you said earlier,

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Speaker 1: up until a little bit a few years ago, a

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Speaker 1: few decades ago, we didn't even have confirmation there were

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Speaker 1: other planets out there, right, We just imagined or assume

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Speaker 1: there were, but we had not actually seen any.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it could have been that we were one of

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Speaker 2: very very few, perhaps singular solar systems that had planets

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Speaker 2: around it. It could have been that the reason that there's

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Speaker 2: life here around our Sun is that it was the

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Speaker 2: only one with a rocky habitable perch. Now, of course,

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Speaker 2: we know the opposite is true. We know there are

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Speaker 2: planets all over the galaxy. We've seen a few thousand

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Speaker 2: of them, and we estimate that there are zillions of them,

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Speaker 2: that they're almost literally everywhere in the galaxy. That's a

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Speaker 2: real change in the way we see our whole context

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Speaker 2: in the universe.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because imagine even like jumping from our sun to

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Speaker 1: the stars in the sky was kind of a big

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Speaker 1: leap for humanity too, right, Like, we can look at

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Speaker 1: our sun and it looks circular, at least if you

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Speaker 1: see a projector of it or through a filter, you

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Speaker 1: can see that it's a giant ball. But the stars

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Speaker 1: in the sky just look like little pinpoints, And so

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Speaker 1: it must have been a pretty big leap to think,

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Speaker 1: you know, those pinpoints are actually stars.

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Speaker 2: It is a pretty big leap. And to understand how

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Speaker 2: big a leap it is to understand how far away

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Speaker 2: they are is pretty tricky. I mean, even the Greeks

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Speaker 2: knew that the other stars were likely suns, but they

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Speaker 2: thought they were much much closer than they actually are.

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Speaker 2: The Greeks couldn't understand how far away these stars actually were.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, it really expands your whole mental picture of

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Speaker 2: the universe to understand that our sun is one of

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Speaker 2: many of those stars, and that therefore there are lots

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Speaker 2: and lots of places where life might exist in the universe.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and those stars out there are really far away,

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Speaker 1: that's why they look like pinpoints. And so basically, until recently,

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Speaker 1: it was almost impossible to really see a planet on them, right.

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Speaker 2: It was very tricky, and for a long time people

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Speaker 2: thought it might be impossible. But astronomers are very clever

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Speaker 2: and very hard working, and now we have lots of

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Speaker 2: tricks to discover planets around other stars, and so now

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Speaker 2: people are pushing into what many people believe is impossible,

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Speaker 2: understanding the atmospheres, the surfaces, and maybe even the orbiting

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Speaker 2: bodies of those planets.

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Speaker 1: I wonder what did I'm sure we'll get into it,

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Speaker 1: But what's the driving question here to know whether an

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Speaker 1: exoplanet has a moon? Like do you think maybe the

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Speaker 1: moon is the one that's habitable, or you're just trying

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Speaker 1: to study other moons?

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Speaker 2: I think all of those things. Moons might be the

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Speaker 2: most commonplace for life in the universe. It might be

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Speaker 2: that moons around big planets are the best place for

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Speaker 2: life to evolve, and the humanity is very, very weird

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Speaker 2: for developing directly on the surface of a planet. On

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Speaker 2: the other hand, moons also tell you a lot about

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Speaker 2: the history of the Solar System, how it formed, how

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Speaker 2: it came to be, which tells you a lot about

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Speaker 2: where you expect to find planets that might have life

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Speaker 2: on them. So it's as much about understanding the detailed

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Speaker 2: history of other solar systems and thinking about where we

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Speaker 2: might find life well as usually.

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Speaker 1: We were wondering how many of you out there had

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Speaker 1: thought about this question and wondered if we could see

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Speaker 1: moons in other planets.

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Speaker 2: Thanks very much to everybody who offers their unprepared insights.

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Speaker 2: We really enjoy this segment of the podcast and we

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Speaker 2: want to hear from you. Please don't be shy write

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Speaker 2: to us to questions at Danielandjorge dot com.

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Speaker 1: So think about it for a second. Do you think

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Speaker 1: we could ever see moons around exoplanets? Here's what people

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Speaker 1: have to say.

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Speaker 3: Just finished listening to the podcast with the exoplanet researcher

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Speaker 3: and do I think we could see them? No, but

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Speaker 3: we do have confirmed existence of moons around exoplanets. I

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Speaker 3: believe that number is currently at two.

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Speaker 4: I think we will definitely be able to see moods

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Speaker 4: throughout exoplanets. James Web will be able to analyze the

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Speaker 4: atmospheres of exoplanets and it might even be strong enough

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Speaker 4: to see moons. And if not, James Web, there's probably

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Speaker 4: going to be another set of eyeballs in the future

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Speaker 4: that we'll be able to do it.

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Speaker 5: I think that in order to be able to detect

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Speaker 5: moons of exoplanets, we would need very sensitive telescope and

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Speaker 5: other instruments capable of measuring the lightest, faintest of changes

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Speaker 5: in the light emitted from other stars.

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Speaker 6: Yes, in terms of finding excello planet moons to be

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Speaker 6: to measure the gravity between that planet, that exoplanet a

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Speaker 6: star and see if we can account for any extra

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Speaker 6: gravity that would be from the moon or maybe some

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Speaker 6: sort of nudger or tug on that moon.

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Speaker 7: I think this depends on your definition of what it

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Speaker 7: means to see a moon. It seems like it would

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Speaker 7: be nearly impossible to imagine directly imaging any especially given

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Speaker 7: that we haven't directly imaged and exo planet yet. But

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Speaker 7: if we had a specially large planet around a star

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Speaker 7: with a big enough percentage of its star's mass, and

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Speaker 7: if it in turn had a moon that was a

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Speaker 7: significant percentage of its mass, then I would imagine that

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Speaker 7: they could probably detect the combined wobble of the interaction

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Speaker 7: between those three.

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Speaker 1: All Right, a lot of optimism here. I feel everyone's like, sure, yeah, eventually,

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Speaker 1: sort of in one way or another, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: There's this bubbling sense that eventually we could figure out

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Speaker 2: basically any problem that in our future lies more and

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Speaker 2: more powerful techniques and telescopes and smarter people that could

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Speaker 2: extract this kind of information from the universe. I love

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Speaker 2: that it's so inspiring to hear people's optimism. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think by smarter people you mean the engineers, right.

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Speaker 2: I mean my students and my students'.

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Speaker 1: Students and the engineers that actually do it for them, right.

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Speaker 1: I think that's what you're saying.

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Speaker 2: Right, I know, we just submit the work order and

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Speaker 2: it comes back. You know who knows who does YadA,

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Speaker 2: YadA YadA. You gotta telescope.

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Speaker 1: That's right, We toy anonymously. That's what happens to all

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Speaker 1: smarter people.

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Speaker 2: No, of course, the field of astronomer is filled with

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Speaker 2: people who analyze the data, and people who build the devices,

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Speaker 2: and people who plan for the next generation of devices.

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Speaker 2: It's a whole ecosystem of smart people, from physicists to

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Speaker 2: planetary scientists, to engineers to computer scientists, all sorts of

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Speaker 2: people all working together.

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Speaker 1: Well, this is a pretty big question, or I guess

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Speaker 1: a small question is how do you see the moon

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Speaker 1: around a planet orbiting a star that is light years

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Speaker 1: or at least millions of miles away. It's a pretty

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Speaker 1: tough question.

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Speaker 2: It is a pretty tough question, and it's going to

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Speaker 2: require us to get even better at seeing those planets.

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Speaker 2: All the techniques we have for seeing moons are basically

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Speaker 2: like super powerful versions of the ways that we see planets.

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Speaker 1: All right, well, let's break it down for people, Daniel.

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Speaker 1: First of all, what is an exoplanet and what do

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Speaker 1: we know about them?

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Speaker 2: So an exoplanet is very simply just a planet around

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Speaker 2: another star. Planets are the planets around our sun. An

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Speaker 2: exoplanet is a planet around for example, Alpha Centauri or

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Speaker 2: any other star that's not our Sun XO. Just meaning

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Speaker 2: like outside the Solar system.

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Speaker 1: M I see like an outer planet? Where I guess not,

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Speaker 1: because an outer planet could be the planets in our

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Speaker 1: Solar system. Like anything outside of our Solar system that's

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Speaker 1: a planet is an exoplanet.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, a planet around another star would be an exoplanet.

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Speaker 2: And they have to be far away because the nearest

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Speaker 2: star is several light years away, which is really really far.

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Speaker 2: It's very far compared to the distance between the planets,

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Speaker 2: and so an exoplanet is going to be very, very

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Speaker 2: different from any planet in our Solar system, just in

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Speaker 2: terms of like where it is.

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Speaker 1: And we hadn't actually seen one or confirmed there were

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Speaker 1: any planets around any other stars until basically like thirty

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Speaker 1: years ago.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, it's incredible if you make a plot of

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Speaker 2: like the number of planets we've seen over time, dating

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Speaker 2: back like thousands of years until fairly recently, we'd only

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Speaker 2: ever seen like six, right, and then Urinus and Neptune

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Speaker 2: are discovered in the last few hundred years, and then

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Speaker 2: Pluto and then un Pluto, so we're back down to eight.

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Speaker 2: And then it wasn't until the nineteen nineties, only thirty

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Speaker 2: years ago, that we finally saw one outside of our

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Speaker 2: Solar system. Until then, we only speculated, we only imagined,

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Speaker 2: we'd had calculations, we had speculations, but we had no

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Speaker 2: actual data until about thirty years ago when we developed

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Speaker 2: these techniques to see the planets or to deduce their

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Speaker 2: existence around other stars.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because, as one of the listeners who replied earlier said,

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Speaker 1: the word see is a little bit tricky, right, We

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Speaker 1: didn't actually see planets in other stars. We sort of

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Speaker 1: like figure out they were there, but we didn't actually

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Speaker 1: see them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, and so we have these really cool techniques

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Speaker 2: to deduce that they exist, and you know, you can

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Speaker 2: argue philosophically about what does it mean to see something,

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Speaker 2: But we didn't see exoplanets directly until much more recently.

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Speaker 2: The first discoveries came from just observing the impact of

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Speaker 2: those planets on the stars, which of course we can.

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Speaker 1: See, which is kind of crazy to think, right, because

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Speaker 1: what possible impact and the Earth have on the Sun.

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Speaker 1: The Sun is like a million times heavier than the Earth,

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Speaker 1: right or more.

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Speaker 2: It's all about making these things more sensitive and getting

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Speaker 2: down to the details. Like mostly you're right, the Earth

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Speaker 2: has basically no impact on the Sun. But if you

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Speaker 2: analyze the Sun super duper closely, then yeah, the Earth

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Speaker 2: does have a little bit of an impact on the Sun,

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Speaker 2: the same way that, for example, the other planets have

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Speaker 2: an impact on the Earth. Mostly, the Earth's orbit around

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Speaker 2: the Sun is just a story of two bodies, the

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Speaker 2: Earth and the Sun, orbiting their combined center of mass.

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Speaker 2: But if you get super dup or precise about it,

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Speaker 2: then you have to take into account, like the effect

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Speaker 2: of Jupiter and Saturn on the orbit of the Earth.

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Speaker 2: So all of these little complications can actually reveal the

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Speaker 2: rich structure of the Solar system if you study them

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Speaker 2: with enough precision.

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Speaker 1: It's pretty mind body to think. I mean, the Sun

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Speaker 1: is so big and it's the Earth is just this

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Speaker 1: tiny little marble next to it, like that it would

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Speaker 1: have an effect on the whole thing. Like I can

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Speaker 1: see maybe pulling a little bit more on the part

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Speaker 1: of the Sun that's closest to the Earth, maybe some

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Speaker 1: of that cosma, But to think that it could move

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Speaker 1: the entire Sun is pretty hard to believe.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, imagine instead you had two objects that had

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Speaker 2: the same mass, right, like two stars the same mass,

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Speaker 2: and they're orbiting each other. Clearly they have an effect

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Speaker 2: on each other. What they're orbiting is actually a point

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Speaker 2: right in between them. Now, as you shrink one of

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Speaker 2: those things down and grow the other one so it

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Speaker 2: becomes asymmetric, the points they're orbiting moves towards the center

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Speaker 2: of the heavier one. If one of them was infinitely

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Speaker 2: massive or the other one was massless, then they would

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Speaker 2: both be orbiting a point at the center of the

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Speaker 2: biggest object. But if the Earth is not massless, if

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Speaker 2: it actually does have some mass, then it's pulling that

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Speaker 2: center of mass a little bit away from the center

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Speaker 2: of the Sun. And if you measure the motion of

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Speaker 2: the Sun very precisely, you can detect that. And that's

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Speaker 2: why these things are so hard. That's why it took

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Speaker 2: so long to see these things, is that it requires

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Speaker 2: really precise measurements now of the motion of stars in

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Speaker 2: other solar systems.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's pretty mind blowing. But I guess maybe one

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Speaker 1: thing that helped was that we didn't start looking for

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Speaker 1: Earth sized planets, right, we start looking for Jupiter sized planets.

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Speaker 2: Well, we started looking for anything we could see, and

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Speaker 2: we didn't know what was out there, right. We had

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Speaker 2: speculation about what kind of planets might exist in other

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Speaker 2: solar systems, but we didn't really know what we could find.

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Speaker 2: You're right though, that the first techniques we developed were

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Speaker 2: more powerful for Jupiter sized planets. The bigger the planet

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Speaker 2: and the closer it was to the star, the easier

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Speaker 2: it was for us to find them.

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Speaker 1: Like, those were the first planets found right where. They

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Speaker 1: were basically giant gas planets.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they call them hot Jupiters because they're the size

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Speaker 2: of Jupiter and they're very close to the star. The

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Speaker 2: closer they are the star, the faster the orbit, the

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Speaker 2: easier it is to find them because they tug on

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Speaker 2: the star. And so one of these techniques is called

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Speaker 2: the radial velocity method. You look at the light from

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Speaker 2: the star and you see if it's shifted in frequency.

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Speaker 2: If a star is moving away from you, it's red shifted.

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Speaker 2: If a star's moving towards you, it's blue shifted. If

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Speaker 2: a star is getting wiggled by a planet that's orbiting it,

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Speaker 2: then it's going to get red shifted and blue shifted,

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Speaker 2: red shitted and blue shifted. It's going to wiggle a

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Speaker 2: little bit in its frequencies. And that's what they look for.

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Speaker 2: But that's more powerful for big planets and planets that

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Speaker 2: are close to their stars.

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Speaker 1: But then we develop other ways to look at planets,

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Speaker 1: right really quick, What are some of these other ways

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Speaker 1: that we can see exoplanets.

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Speaker 2: So another way is the transit method, which is basically

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Speaker 2: an eclipse. As the planet passes in front of the star,

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Speaker 2: it dims it a little bit, it blocks some of

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Speaker 2: the light. And so again if you're just measuring the

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Speaker 2: light from the star roughly, you're never going to notice this.

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Speaker 2: If you make very precise measurements of the light from

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Speaker 2: the star, you can see these dips and you can

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Speaker 2: see the patterns. If the planet goes around many many times,

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Speaker 2: you'll see the same pattern over and over again. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 2: this one is also best at seeing big planets that

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Speaker 2: eclipse the light more and close by planets that block

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Speaker 2: more light from their sun and go around many times,

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Speaker 2: so we can see many transits.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like if the Moon didn't reflect any light and

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Speaker 1: you can see it in the night sky, you could

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Speaker 1: still maybe every once in a while know it's there

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Speaker 1: because it would block the light from the Sun. You

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Speaker 1: would see an eclipse exactly.

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Speaker 2: And there are techniques that will let you see planets

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Speaker 2: that are further from the Sun, and these are actually

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Speaker 2: the direct imaging ones. We can look at a solar

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Speaker 2: system and we can block the light from the sun

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Speaker 2: called the corona graph, a little thing that prevents the

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Speaker 2: light from the star from getting into the telescope and

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Speaker 2: only look at the stuff around it. And now we

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Speaker 2: have powerful enough telescopes that you can actually see dots

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Speaker 2: around those stars. So these are direct images of light

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Speaker 2: from those planets, and those are most powerful at seeing

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Speaker 2: planets that are far away from the star. There's the

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Speaker 2: further they are from the star, the easier it is

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Speaker 2: to tell them apart from the blinding light from the

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Speaker 2: star itself.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like you basically put your thumb, like if

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Speaker 1: you look up at the skuy you put your thumb

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Speaker 1: over the star and then you see there are any

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Speaker 1: other twinkles around it, right.

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Speaker 2: Exactly, And so we have like a few pixels of

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Speaker 2: light from these planets. Of course, the planets themselves are

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Speaker 2: not glowing. It's all reflected light from their star. But

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Speaker 2: you know, it bounced off the planet first, so it's

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Speaker 2: just like looking at the planet the same way the

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Speaker 2: Earth is illuminated by our sun.

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Speaker 1: That's the closest we have of an actual picture of

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Speaker 1: another planet, right, Like, I've seen the plots. They're a

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Speaker 1: bit old right now. We've had these photos for fish

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Speaker 1: seen hears or something like that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they're getting better and better, but they're not great.

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Speaker 2: I mean they're pretty fuzzy. If you took pictures of

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Speaker 2: your kids like this, none of your relatives would be

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Speaker 2: very impressed with your photography. It's like a few pixels

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Speaker 2: here and there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, although my kids nowadays avoid getting their picture taken

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Speaker 1: as I think most kids do, and so they're kind

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Speaker 1: of a big blur anyways, And then what's the last

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Speaker 1: kind of method we used to detect these exoplanets.

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Speaker 2: The last technique is called micro lensing, and that's essentially

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Speaker 2: using the planet as a lens to distort light from

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Speaker 2: some other star. If there's light from another star behind

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Speaker 2: the Solar system that's passing through that Solar system, then

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Speaker 2: it can get bent around the planet. Because the planet,

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Speaker 2: of course is massive and it changes the shape of

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Speaker 2: space and so it can act like a giant lens.

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Speaker 2: This is sort of similar to the way we can

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Speaker 2: see dark matter in the sky by seeing its gravitational lensing.

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Speaker 2: So here's called micro lensing because there's so smaller amount

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Speaker 2: of lensing as the light passes around the planet.

440
00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:01,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're seeing how the bends the light coming at you.

441
00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:02,919
Speaker 1: And so those are the different ways that we can

442
00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:05,840
Speaker 1: see exoplanets. But now the big question is are there

443
00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:09,399
Speaker 1: moons around these exoplanets out there in the universe? What

444
00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:12,200
Speaker 1: is it like on those moons, could we ever see them?

445
00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:15,240
Speaker 1: And how are we going to see them? So let's

446
00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:17,680
Speaker 1: dig into that. But first let's take a quick break.

447
00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:33,600
Speaker 1: All right, we're talking about finding exo moons, So you

448
00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:37,080
Speaker 1: call them exo moons if it's a moon around an exoplanet.

449
00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:39,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, we call them exo moons unless you have a

450
00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:40,040
Speaker 2: better name for.

451
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:44,639
Speaker 1: Them, turning to be like exoxo moons because it's like

452
00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:47,119
Speaker 1: a different body out on an exoplanet.

453
00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:51,400
Speaker 2: There are exo moons around exo planets. There are two

454
00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,240
Speaker 2: exos there. But I think exo just means in another

455
00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:54,959
Speaker 2: solar system.

456
00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:57,520
Speaker 1: So well, what do you call the moons around Jupiter?

457
00:20:57,680 --> 00:20:59,960
Speaker 2: Moons?

458
00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:00,600
Speaker 1: Moons?

459
00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:05,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, there you go, and no moons now, just moons.

460
00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:07,840
Speaker 2: And you know, Jupiter is a great example because something

461
00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:10,400
Speaker 2: we noticed and our solar system is there are kind

462
00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:13,320
Speaker 2: of a lot of moons, right, we have two hundred

463
00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:16,240
Speaker 2: and twenty six moons in our solar system. And something

464
00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:18,960
Speaker 2: we wonder is like, is that weird? Are we kind

465
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:21,760
Speaker 2: of moony? Or are we moon poor compared to other

466
00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:24,760
Speaker 2: solar systems? Like what's a typical number of moons to have?

467
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:25,919
Speaker 2: We just don't even know.

468
00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:29,040
Speaker 1: And we have a whole episode about how like moons form, right,

469
00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:29,840
Speaker 1: how you get a moon?

470
00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:33,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. It's really fascinating the number of ways that

471
00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:35,440
Speaker 2: you can get a moon, they can form with a planet,

472
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:37,439
Speaker 2: you can capture them, it can be the result of

473
00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:39,720
Speaker 2: a collision. The point is that it tells you a

474
00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:42,080
Speaker 2: lot about the history of the Solar System. It's like

475
00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:45,679
Speaker 2: a record of what happened here before you showed up.

476
00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:49,359
Speaker 1: Right, Like our Solar System we've talked about before, it

477
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:51,399
Speaker 1: was a pretty chaotic place, and so it kind of

478
00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:53,320
Speaker 1: makes sense that there was just a lot of debris

479
00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:55,800
Speaker 1: out there floating, flying around, and so not all of

480
00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,600
Speaker 1: it was going to get into planets, and so it

481
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:01,080
Speaker 1: makes sense we have a smaller box that they're orbiting

482
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:02,080
Speaker 1: the bigger bodies.

483
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:04,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, although we have an incredible range of sort of

484
00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:08,480
Speaker 2: size of those bodies. Like our moon is huge. It's

485
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:11,000
Speaker 2: like more than one percent the mass of the Earth,

486
00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:14,080
Speaker 2: which is very very unusual. More typical size is like

487
00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:17,119
Speaker 2: one ten thousands the mass of the planet. But then

488
00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:19,840
Speaker 2: there's also like Sharon, which is one eighth the mass

489
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:22,600
Speaker 2: of Pluto, even though Pluto not officially a planet anymore.

490
00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:25,480
Speaker 2: But we have this incredible variation in the sizes of

491
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:28,680
Speaker 2: the moons and in their origin and their composition. It's

492
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:30,400
Speaker 2: really an incredible diversity.

493
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:33,600
Speaker 1: Or I guess in the relative size, right, because some

494
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:35,840
Speaker 1: of the moons around Jupiter, aren't they almost the same

495
00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:36,920
Speaker 1: size as our moon?

496
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:39,560
Speaker 2: Yeah? Exactly, we're talking about the relative sizes, and some

497
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,560
Speaker 2: of the moons around Jupiter are huge, absolutely, and potential

498
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:45,199
Speaker 2: places for life to exist, which is one of the

499
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:48,440
Speaker 2: things that makes us wonder whether Moon's around exoplanets might

500
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:49,400
Speaker 2: also be habitable.

501
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:51,640
Speaker 1: All right, Well, we talked about how we can see

502
00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:54,639
Speaker 1: other planets in other stars in the universe, and I

503
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:56,960
Speaker 1: guess as as star wars were like, Okay, we've seen those.

504
00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:01,679
Speaker 1: Now let's increase the difficulty. Exactly, fine, things orbiting not

505
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 1: just around other stars, but around the things that are

506
00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:05,240
Speaker 1: orbiting around other stars.

507
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:07,040
Speaker 2: And this is the game in science, right. People have

508
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:09,359
Speaker 2: come along and done the simplest thing. All right, now,

509
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:11,679
Speaker 2: let's come along and do the next harder thing. And

510
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:14,000
Speaker 2: then the next generation's like, well that was easy. Now

511
00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:16,080
Speaker 2: let's do the next harder thing. And so I love

512
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:18,639
Speaker 2: how we're always making the progress. We're always pushing the

513
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:19,400
Speaker 2: boundaries here.

514
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:21,680
Speaker 1: But are we done though? I feel like I'm still

515
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:24,479
Speaker 1: waiting for that, you know, actual picture of another planet

516
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:29,000
Speaker 1: in another solar system, you know, like a like a photograph, photograph.

517
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:30,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, we're never done right. We're always pushing, but

518
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,959
Speaker 2: we're pushing in lots of directions. Simultaneously, people are working

519
00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 2: on that photograph. One idea that's being worked, one which

520
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:39,080
Speaker 2: we talked about in the podcast, is like using the

521
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:42,399
Speaker 2: Sun itself as a gravitational lens. You put a camera

522
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 2: out deep in the solar system. You can use the

523
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 2: Sun to gather a huge amount of light from a

524
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,159
Speaker 2: distant solar system, and the Sun will focus all that

525
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:52,080
Speaker 2: light on the camera you have out like near Neptune,

526
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:55,479
Speaker 2: treating the Sun like this huge lens and making a

527
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:59,040
Speaker 2: solar system sized camera that could give you a picture

528
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:00,840
Speaker 2: of the surface of exoplanets.

529
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:02,560
Speaker 1: Wait what like our sun?

530
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, our sun. You have the Sun acting like a

531
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,480
Speaker 2: gravitational lens, gathering light and then focusing it on a

532
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 2: camera you put like way deep in the soil system,

533
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 2: and you can take a picture of something super far

534
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:16,760
Speaker 2: away with a lens effectively the size of the Sun.

535
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:21,399
Speaker 1: Whoa pretty cool, let's do it, Picker, It didn't happen.

536
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 2: It's pretty tricky project because you have to get a

537
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:25,720
Speaker 2: camera like pretty far out in the solar system and

538
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,159
Speaker 2: that could take decades, and then moving it takes a

539
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 2: long time, but it definitely can be done, and someday

540
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:32,919
Speaker 2: we will see the surface of exoplanets.

541
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 1: And then you got to get the aliens to stay

542
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:37,879
Speaker 1: still and smile for the camera, and it takes, you know,

543
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 1: a thousand years just to say cheese.

544
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:42,359
Speaker 2: Yeah. Then they have to sign that waiver, you know,

545
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 2: so you can publish the picture.

546
00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:48,440
Speaker 1: There you go. You seem really concerned about the aliens here.

547
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 2: Hey man, I'm just looking after them. I just don't

548
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:52,960
Speaker 2: want them to come and punch us in the face

549
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 2: over something silly like legal forms.

550
00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 1: You don't want to punch you in the phase when

551
00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 1: you take a picture of them in the bathroom, I.

552
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:02,639
Speaker 2: Have no idea when they're in the bathroom, Like, what

553
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 2: are you doing over there? Is that what you call

554
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:05,840
Speaker 2: the bathroom? I don't know. I'm just taking pictures.

555
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 1: I see ignorance.

556
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, look, look, I just want to say, there's a

557
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:11,920
Speaker 2: lot of moon jokes I'm not.

558
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:15,920
Speaker 1: Making around here, thankfully, thankfully. All right, Well, then how

559
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,119
Speaker 1: can we see these ex moons? We basically use the

560
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:20,679
Speaker 1: same methods we used to detect other planets, or are

561
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 1: we trying some different things?

562
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 2: Both The bread and butter is to take the same

563
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:27,240
Speaker 2: methods and make them super duper sensitive. Like the transit

564
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,719
Speaker 2: method is one of the most sensitive methods for finding

565
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 2: these planets if everything is lined up, and you can

566
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,280
Speaker 2: also use it to discover the Moon's in a couple

567
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 2: of ways, because the moon will affect how the planet

568
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:42,919
Speaker 2: blots out the light from the star Number one, it

569
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 2: can affect when it happens like the moon is tugging

570
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:49,119
Speaker 2: on the planet the same way the planet is tugging

571
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 2: on the star, which makes when the planet gets in

572
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,639
Speaker 2: front of the Sun and blocks its light change a

573
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 2: little bit. As the moon is orbiting the planet, it's

574
00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 2: like yanking on the planet a little bit, So it

575
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 2: changes the timing in these transits, right.

576
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,239
Speaker 1: Like I guess, like our moon, the moon here is

577
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:08,920
Speaker 1: making the Earth wiggle a little bit. And so the

578
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:11,719
Speaker 1: idea is that in another planet, in another solar system,

579
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 1: if it has a moon, a big enough moon, it's

580
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,399
Speaker 1: making that planet wiggle, and so when it moves in

581
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 1: front of its star, it's going to block the light

582
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:20,880
Speaker 1: in a wiggly fashion exactly.

583
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 2: And if you count enough of these transits, you can

584
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 2: start to notice these patterns, and then you can fit

585
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:27,639
Speaker 2: it to a model you can say, like, well, can

586
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 2: I explain why this transit was a little bit later

587
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:32,680
Speaker 2: and that transit was a little bit earlier. By assuming

588
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:34,480
Speaker 2: that there's a moon there pulling on it, is it

589
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,680
Speaker 2: all consistent? You don't just like look for noise and say, well,

590
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:39,960
Speaker 2: I don't know it was noisy, maybe there was a moon.

591
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:42,880
Speaker 2: You have a specific description of what that moon might

592
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 2: look like and how it would affect the planet.

593
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:47,640
Speaker 1: Right, Like, if you notice it the wiggling is regular,

594
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:49,920
Speaker 1: then you know there's something going on, Like it can't

595
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 1: just be like random wiggling exactly.

596
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 2: And there's a second way, which is that the moon

597
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:58,240
Speaker 2: itself can also contribute to blocking the light, not just

598
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:00,880
Speaker 2: when the planet blocks it, but the moon could also

599
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,879
Speaker 2: have its own little moony eclipse, right because if the

600
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 2: moon is lined up at the same time as the planet,

601
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 2: it can add a little bit of eclipsiness to the planet.

602
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 2: It effectively makes the planet's shadow a little bit bigger.

603
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:13,720
Speaker 2: And if you have a model for how that moon

604
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 2: is orbiting the planet and when the planet is going

605
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 2: around the Sun, you can predict exactly when the Moon's

606
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 2: going to be in the right position to add to

607
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 2: the eclipse.

608
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 1: But wouldn't it always block the lights in the sun, Like,

609
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 1: you know, it's pretty small compared to that planet, and

610
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 1: the planet is small compared to the Sun. Wouldn't it

611
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,160
Speaker 1: always be sort of insight or in view.

612
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:35,480
Speaker 2: It might always be in view, but it doesn't always

613
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:38,360
Speaker 2: have to contribute to the amount of eclipse. Like let's

614
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 2: say they're all lined up. If you see like moon

615
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,880
Speaker 2: and then planet, then star. If the moon is already

616
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,359
Speaker 2: in the shadow of the planet, then it's not contributing

617
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:48,920
Speaker 2: to the decrease in the light. Only when the Moon

618
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,240
Speaker 2: is sort of offset a little bit from the planet,

619
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:54,119
Speaker 2: so it like adds a little shoulder to the planet.

620
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:56,400
Speaker 2: Is it going to increase the amount of light that's

621
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 2: being blocked? And that's the kind of thing they look for.

622
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:01,480
Speaker 2: They look for these trans dips with like a little

623
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:03,480
Speaker 2: wiggle on the down edge or a wiggle on the

624
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,360
Speaker 2: up edge when the moon is peaking around the side

625
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 2: of the planet. Basically have to have moon rise or

626
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 2: moon set along the planet for it to contribute to

627
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 2: the transit dip.

628
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 1: Wow, but now we're talking about like a super duper

629
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 1: tiny dip in the light, right Like our moon would

630
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 1: block very little of our giant Sun.

631
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:23,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. We're talking about really sensitive measurements, and until

632
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:26,640
Speaker 2: recently people allowt this is impossible. You know, you'd need

633
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 2: very very accurate understanding of the light and very precise

634
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,919
Speaker 2: measurements of the intensity of the light coming from these things.

635
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 2: So it wasn't until like two thousand and seven, more

636
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 2: than a decade after exoplanet discoveries, the people really started

637
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 2: working on this in detail, like taking the idea seriously.

638
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 2: And one of the biggest challenges is that most of

639
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 2: these techniques that we've used to find exoplanets are good

640
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 2: at finding planets close to the star, like we talked

641
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 2: about hot Jupiter's right, really big planets really close to

642
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 2: their stars. But those planets are unlikely to have moons.

643
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 2: And though that makes it very challenging to find any

644
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:03,320
Speaker 2: of these moons.

645
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 1: Why are they unlikely to have moons?

646
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,479
Speaker 2: For the same reason that Mercury and Venus don't have

647
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 2: moons in our Solar system, right, all the other planets

648
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,720
Speaker 2: have them, and Mercury and Venus don't. It's because of

649
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 2: the tidal forces from the Sun. As you get close

650
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 2: to the Sun, the tidal forces, the difference in gravity

651
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 2: from one side to the other side of a planet,

652
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:22,960
Speaker 2: for example, get very very intense, and that will just

653
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 2: disrupt the orbit of a moon. In order to have

654
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 2: a moon orbiting a planet, you basically need the Sun

655
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 2: to leave it a little bit alone. You need a

656
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 2: planet to be able to dominate the gravitational experience of

657
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:36,760
Speaker 2: that moon, so the moon can be trapped in an orbit.

658
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 2: But if the Sun is really really close by, then

659
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 2: the Sun's tidal forces make a moon's orbit impossible.

660
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 1: Like they'll tend to pull the Moon towards the Sun

661
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 1: and then eventually that moon will either fly off into

662
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 1: space or fall into the Sun exactly.

663
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:52,480
Speaker 2: Essentially, it's like a three body system, which we've talked

664
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 2: about before, is fundamentally chaotic. The only arrangement for a

665
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 2: three body system to be stable is if two of

666
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 2: those bodies are pretty close together and pretty far from

667
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 2: the third body, which is like, if you have a

668
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 2: distant planet with the moon orbiting it, that planet gets

669
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 2: too close to the Sun, you now have a three

670
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 2: body problem and you're going to lose your moon.

671
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 1: So you're saying that's kind of a problem because our

672
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 1: exoplanet detection methods depend on being close to the Sun.

673
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 1: But those planets might not have any moons exactly.

674
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 2: So the kind of planets we're good at finding are

675
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 2: the kind of planets we expect to not have very

676
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 2: many moons. On the other hand, there's lots of planets

677
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 2: out there, and we can sometimes see planets a little

678
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 2: further from their star, and maybe one of those hot

679
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 2: jupiters will have a big enough moon that's orbiting close

680
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 2: enough to it to be stable. So there's not no hope.

681
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 2: But it's pretty tricky.

682
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 1: But I thought the transit method, the one where we're

683
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,760
Speaker 1: looking for eclipses and distant stars, those don't depend on

684
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 1: the closeness of this planet.

685
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 2: They do indirectly depend on the closeness of the planet.

686
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 2: What you want is a short period, because you want

687
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 2: to see many transits. If your planet is really far

688
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 2: from your star and orbits like once every eighty years,

689
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 2: then you're most ever going to see one transit, And

690
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 2: it's pretty hard to be sure that what you're looking

691
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 2: at is a planet if you only see one eclipse.

692
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 2: If you see it regularly and it happens every four days,

693
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 2: and you can really study it in detail, and you

694
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 2: can convince yourself that you're seeing a planet, not for example,

695
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 2: like a star spot, something on the surface of the

696
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 2: star that's dimmer and darker and decreasing the intensity of

697
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 2: the light.

698
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 1: The period of the orbit makes a big difference.

699
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, because you want more examples.

700
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 1: Right right, Yeah, Like some of the planets in our

701
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 1: Solar system take like two hundred years right to go

702
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 1: around the.

703
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 2: Sun exactly, And so if you're an alien graduate student

704
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 2: and you're trying to discover Pluto in our Solar system,

705
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 2: then you're going to be a student for a long

706
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 2: long time.

707
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's going to take even longer to get that

708
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 1: PhD thousands of years.

709
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 2: I hope you guys live long out there.

710
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 1: So then what about direct imaging, like taking a direct photograph?

711
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:48,920
Speaker 1: Is in that better for planets that are far away

712
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 1: from the star.

713
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:52,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's possible. We're sort of just on the cutting

714
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 2: edge of being able to do that even for planets,

715
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 2: and so we're pushing those limits and we're developing new

716
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 2: technologies and this whole new generation of space based telescopes

717
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 2: that are gonna be super awesome at doing direct imaging

718
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 2: of those planets, and so as that gets better, it'll

719
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 2: start to be possible to potentially see moons around those planets.

720
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 2: But you know, as we said, like currently planets are

721
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 2: basically one or two pixels, so resolving a moon around

722
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:21,760
Speaker 2: those planets would be really challenging. With a couple of exceptions,

723
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 2: if those moons have ways to like really make themselves known,

724
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 2: then we might be able to see them.

725
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 1: So Like, for example, if you look at Jupiter here

726
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:32,960
Speaker 1: in our Solar system with a regular telescope in your backyard,

727
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 1: you can actually see the moons of Jupiter, right. You

728
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 1: see little points around the bigger circle of the planet.

729
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 1: It is that if you point a bit powerful enough

730
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 1: telescope and these distant planets, you could see maybe the

731
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 1: dot front the planet, but also maybe little dots around

732
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 1: it that might be the moons.

733
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, you might, especially if those moons are weird in

734
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 2: some way, Like if those moons are super volcanic and

735
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 2: they're shooting out really hot gases, you might be able

736
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 2: to spot that. Or if the moon munds are super

737
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 2: duper hot, like they're squeezed by their planet with tidal

738
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 2: forces so that internally they're very high temperature, then they

739
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 2: might glow at a different temperature than their planet and

740
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 2: be easier to see them, and so there's some weird

741
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 2: kind of moons that you might be able to direct

742
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 2: image before regular normal humps of rock. But I think

743
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 2: we're gonna have to wait for our direct imaging technology

744
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 2: to improve significantly before we can expect to see pixels

745
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 2: from exo moons.

746
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 1: Interestingly, I wonder if you can like do like the

747
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 1: cliffs method on a planet that's far away, you know

748
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:33,760
Speaker 1: what I mean, Like if if you're looking at the

749
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 1: life from reflected from a planet and you see a

750
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 1: dip itself, I wonder if that could be a sign

751
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 1: that there's the moon there.

752
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a cool idea. And you're right, the reflected

753
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 2: life from that planet should dip when the moon passes

754
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 2: in front of it. Again, we're still at the cutting

755
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 2: edge of even seeing pixels from those planets, and so

756
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 2: there you'd need like to study those pixels over time

757
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 2: and to look for dips and to understand every other

758
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 2: possible source of dips. Because that planet is light, is

759
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 2: already going to be variable as the planet goes around

760
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 2: the star, So you're gonna have to understand that and

761
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:08,279
Speaker 2: then variations on that. But yeah, that's a cool idea.

762
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 1: Thanks, I'll take the Noble Price. We have it on record.

763
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 1: All right, Well, these seem like long shot sort of

764
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:16,840
Speaker 1: sounds like from what you're saying that we're not super

765
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 1: close to being able to do this. But have we

766
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 1: have we found any moons out there and other planets?

767
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:22,839
Speaker 1: Have there been any discoveries?

768
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:24,879
Speaker 2: So we are right on the edge of being able

769
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:26,880
Speaker 2: to do this, which means that we have like a

770
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 2: couple of candidates that are disputed. There are some people

771
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 2: who think these probably are exo moons and other people

772
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:35,440
Speaker 2: who think they're probably not. You know, the evidence is

773
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 2: like really right on the edge, and people split over

774
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:41,400
Speaker 2: the statistical analysis of these things. But it's fun because

775
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:43,719
Speaker 2: we have a couple of things to dig into and

776
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 2: to talk about.

777
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 1: All right, let's do it. What are these candidates for

778
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:48,360
Speaker 1: possible exomoons?

779
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 2: So there was one discovered in twenty eighteen. This is

780
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 2: the first exo moon candidate, and it's around planet Kepler

781
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:59,879
Speaker 2: sixteen twenty five B. Kepler sixteen twenty five is the star,

782
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,919
Speaker 2: B means the planet, and then the moon is called

783
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 2: Kepler sixteen twenty five B. Dash.

784
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:10,399
Speaker 1: I Well, why I was there an abcd FGH moon

785
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 1: or are they're just going for like an iPhone reference here.

786
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 2: No, I think it's Roman numerals, Like the first one's

787
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:17,400
Speaker 2: going to be I, the second one's going to be II,

788
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:19,360
Speaker 2: the third one would be III.

789
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 1: This kind of thing, uh I see, all right, Yeah,

790
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 1: switching it up exactly.

791
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:28,680
Speaker 2: And so here's this two separate, independent pieces of evidence

792
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:31,400
Speaker 2: that suggests that there might be a moon here. What

793
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 2: we're looking at is a Jupiter size planet around the

794
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 2: star right, but it's like earth distance from the Sun,

795
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 2: but it's like a huge planet.

796
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 1: That's what we think is there.

797
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:42,279
Speaker 2: That's what we think is there. That's the planet that

798
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:45,160
Speaker 2: we're pretty sure is there. That's Kepler sixteen twenty five B.

799
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:48,880
Speaker 1: It's mass, but maybe not necessarily it has to be

800
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 1: gas giant, does it.

801
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 2: We know some of about it's mass because we know

802
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 2: it's orbit and so we know roughly its volume, and

803
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:56,279
Speaker 2: we know it's roughly it's mass, and so we can

804
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:58,800
Speaker 2: tell something about the density. And these planets of this

805
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 2: size are almost always gas giants.

806
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:02,759
Speaker 1: All right. So that's what we think is there.

807
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 2: And so it's sort of an unusual planet already because

808
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:08,839
Speaker 2: it's a cool Jupiter. We talked earlier about how lots

809
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 2: of the planets we've discovered are hot Jupiter's big planets

810
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 2: very close to their star, like within the orbit of Mercury,

811
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 2: you know, but this is farther out orbit makes it

812
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:20,359
Speaker 2: a cool Jupiter. And the first thing they noticed is

813
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 2: this transit timing variation that the planet is blocking the

814
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 2: light from the star behind it. But it's not in

815
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:28,919
Speaker 2: a regular fashion. There're wiggles there and exactly the way

816
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 2: you would expect if there.

817
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 1: Was a moon, I see. So it's not like going

818
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 1: around its Sun in a regular way. It has a

819
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:37,280
Speaker 1: little wiggle to its orbit exactly.

820
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 2: It has a little wiggle to its orbit, which can

821
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:42,640
Speaker 2: be explained very nicely by the presence of a moon.

822
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 2: Like they do all the statistical calculations, they have two

823
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 2: models like with and without the moon, and the one

824
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:51,319
Speaker 2: with the moon better explains the data, like much much

825
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:54,279
Speaker 2: better explains the data than the model without the moon.

826
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:56,760
Speaker 1: Although couldn't it be something else as well?

827
00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 2: It could be something else, right, It could be that

828
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 2: there are other planets in this solar system and those

829
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 2: planets are tugging on it, and that'd be much more

830
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:07,760
Speaker 2: complicated because you could have multiple planets like several Jupiter

831
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 2: sized planets that are yanking on it. It's very difficult to model.

832
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 2: And that's one reason why this is not a smoking

833
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 2: gun discovery, because there are other ways that you could

834
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 2: get this kind of signature. What they did follow up

835
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:20,880
Speaker 2: is they looked at some Hubble data. They looked at

836
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:23,360
Speaker 2: Hubble data pointed at this star to see if they

837
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:27,360
Speaker 2: could see an impact of the Moon on the transit itself,

838
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:30,239
Speaker 2: not just the timing, but like, could we see wiggles

839
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 2: in the dip right? Are there like shoulders in this

840
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 2: transit that indicate that we're seeing like a moon rise

841
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 2: as the planet is blocking the light from the star.

842
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:42,320
Speaker 1: Like, is the moon from this cool Jupiter also blocking

843
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 1: the light from the star Sometimes.

844
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And we only have unfortunately, one really clear

845
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 2: transit because this comes from Hubble, and Hubble is not

846
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:53,759
Speaker 2: a planet finding telescope. It's busy doing lots of things.

847
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 2: It's not always looking at one star. So they have

848
00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 2: only like forty hours of data from this star with Hubble.

849
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:02,400
Speaker 2: But they did see a clear transit and there is

850
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:06,440
Speaker 2: a dip there that looks like a Neptune size moon

851
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 2: around this Jupiter sized planet.

852
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:10,960
Speaker 1: Whoa that would be a huge moon wouldn't it.

853
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, literally, that would be huge.

854
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 1: More like a sister planet almost.

855
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:18,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, although technically if it's orbiting a planet, then it's

856
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:19,239
Speaker 2: a moon.

857
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 1: But what if they're both planets.

858
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:23,799
Speaker 2: Yeah. This gets into a really murky territory of where

859
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:26,359
Speaker 2: you define things to be binary planets and where one

860
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:29,320
Speaker 2: of them is a moon. They have this definition where

861
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 2: if the center of mass is inside the surface of

862
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:34,320
Speaker 2: one of them, then one of them is a planet

863
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 2: and the other one is a moon. And in this

864
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 2: case that Jupiter is so much bigger than the Neptune

865
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 2: that the Neptune qualifies as a moon.

866
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 1: You only have one data point. Why don't we get more?

867
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:45,920
Speaker 2: I think that people are excited about that and are

868
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:47,759
Speaker 2: working on it, But you know, hubble time is very

869
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 2: very precious, and there's lots of good things to use

870
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:52,759
Speaker 2: hubble for. In the meantime, people have been like analyzing

871
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:55,760
Speaker 2: this and reanalyzing this, and other groups have analyzed this data,

872
00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:59,399
Speaker 2: and not everybody agrees with the interpretation that the first

873
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:01,800
Speaker 2: paper came up with. Some people look at the transit

874
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 2: data and they say, no, there's no dip there from

875
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 2: a moon. It doesn't look like there's any shoulder there.

876
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:09,880
Speaker 2: Another group analyzed it and said they do agree with

877
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 2: the shoulder, but they disagree with the uncertainties and the

878
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 2: other measurements. And the point is that the data is fuzzy,

879
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:18,480
Speaker 2: it's not crisp and clear, it's not obvious. It requires

880
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 2: like heavy duty statistical techniques to extract this information, and

881
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 2: so we just really can't be one hundred percent confident.

882
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:28,919
Speaker 1: Wow. So they posted this paper with just one data point.

883
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 2: Well, they have one example of the transit, but they

884
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 2: also have the transit timing, right, So those are two

885
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:37,799
Speaker 2: independent streams of information. One is the timing of the

886
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 2: transits and the other is like the actual photometric like

887
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 2: looking at the dip in the light, seeing the moon

888
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:45,200
Speaker 2: itself actually eclipse. They have lots more of examples of

889
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 2: the Moon tugging on the Jupiter and changing its transits,

890
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:52,239
Speaker 2: but only one example of the moon itself blocking the light.

891
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:54,919
Speaker 1: And they sort of match together. I guess right.

892
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:58,040
Speaker 2: They do match together according to one group and their analysis,

893
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:00,799
Speaker 2: and they don't match together according to another group.

894
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:02,879
Speaker 1: Sounds like they need more data.

895
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 2: We definitely need more data. We need more telescopes and

896
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 2: more eyeballs. It's so frustrating when our knowledge of the

897
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:12,360
Speaker 2: universe is just limited by like how many eyeballs we've built,

898
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 2: because there's nothing stopping us from building more. It's just money.

899
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:16,320
Speaker 1: It's just money.

900
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:17,360
Speaker 2: It's just money.

901
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:18,720
Speaker 1: It needs money.

902
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 2: We can just print more. Come on, let's do it.

903
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 2: Print some more money, makes it more scope. Done, Let's

904
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 2: do it. Hey, a lot of engineers will be put

905
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 2: to work building the Daniel Fund the telescope.

906
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:33,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure.

907
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:36,319
Speaker 2: Okay, I will print my own money and I'll see

908
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 2: if engineers out there will accept it as payment one

909
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:40,000
Speaker 2: hundred thousand Daniel bucks.

910
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 1: Well no, Well, I mean, if you commit fraud that way,

911
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 1: who's going to believe your scientific findings?

912
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:50,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, And that's why there's no Daniel Space Telescope.

913
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:53,759
Speaker 1: All right, Well, what's another discovery we made in this

914
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 1: attempt to find other moons?

915
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:59,759
Speaker 2: So there's a second potential discovery. This one's Kepler seventeen

916
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 2: oh eight b dash I. And this was a really

917
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:07,080
Speaker 2: cool strategy to look specifically for planets that have long

918
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 2: periods that are further away from their stars, because they're rarer,

919
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:12,239
Speaker 2: at least in our catalog. At least they're rare in

920
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:14,279
Speaker 2: the kind of things we can see, but they are

921
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:16,239
Speaker 2: more likely to have moons, we.

922
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:19,239
Speaker 1: Think, because that's kind of the trend in our Solar system, right,

923
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 1: Like we have one moon Mars is two in the

924
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:25,279
Speaker 1: inner Solar System, but in the outer Solar System, like

925
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:27,280
Speaker 1: Jupiter and Saturn have dozens of moons.

926
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:30,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, because further you get away from your star,

927
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 2: then the more freedom you have to like dominate your

928
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:36,960
Speaker 2: gravitational environment, capture moons or retain moons or all that

929
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:39,759
Speaker 2: kind of stuff. So they thought, well, let's focus on

930
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:43,480
Speaker 2: cool giants, these planets that are further away, and then

931
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:46,480
Speaker 2: the whole catalog of exoplanets we've ever discovered, they're only

932
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 2: like seventy that qualify is these cool giants.

933
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 1: I see. If they're not cool, they're not included in

934
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:55,879
Speaker 1: the study. You're not invited to the party. Only cool giants.

935
00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 2: Hot giants is a totally different party with a totally

936
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 2: different vibe. Yeah.

937
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:03,360
Speaker 1: Here, it's more of a hipster you know scene.

938
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:06,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're listening to jazz around here, so sit down,

939
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:07,440
Speaker 2: have a drink, chill out.

940
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:11,399
Speaker 1: I'm not sure jazz is considered cool by the kids

941
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:11,879
Speaker 1: these days.

942
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:13,680
Speaker 2: All right, thanks for filling me in, all.

943
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:17,000
Speaker 1: Right, well, let's dig into this cool giant moon what

944
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:19,320
Speaker 1: we know about it and what it tells us about

945
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:22,600
Speaker 1: how solar systems form. But first, let's take another quick

946
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:38,400
Speaker 1: break or right, we're talking about cool giants, not the

947
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 1: you know, plain old giants, not the lame giants, but

948
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:46,880
Speaker 1: the cool giants, and seeing if they have any moons

949
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 1: in them. That's right, The moons have to be cool too.

950
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:52,640
Speaker 2: Some of these moons could be hot, right, they could

951
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:54,839
Speaker 2: be volcanic, They can have all sorts of stuff going

952
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 2: on inside. Even if the planet itself is pretty.

953
00:42:57,040 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 1: Cool, that would be cool, all right. So we've been

954
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:03,400
Speaker 1: talking about finding moons and other planets outside of our

955
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:06,320
Speaker 1: Solar system in distant stars, and there are many different

956
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:08,839
Speaker 1: ways to do it that are getting better and better

957
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:11,080
Speaker 1: every day. And so we have a couple of candidates

958
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:13,919
Speaker 1: of things that might be moons exo moons out there,

959
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:16,359
Speaker 1: and one of them is this one called seventeen oh

960
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:17,239
Speaker 1: eight b I.

961
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 2: That's right, and this one was just discovered last year,

962
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:24,360
Speaker 2: twenty twenty two. And they looked again at the transits

963
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:27,439
Speaker 2: they're looking for like shoulders when this planet is going

964
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:30,400
Speaker 2: around the star, are there moments when it's blocking more

965
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:33,320
Speaker 2: light than you expect, which could be explained by having

966
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:36,400
Speaker 2: a moon orbiting that planet and like rising past the

967
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 2: limit of the planet or coming around the back and

968
00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:41,879
Speaker 2: blocking the light. And so they were looking for these

969
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:45,560
Speaker 2: little shoulders, and it's really pretty cool they do see

970
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:48,719
Speaker 2: some they see these little shoulders inside this transit lip.

971
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:51,080
Speaker 1: And I think by shoulder you mean like if the

972
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 1: planet didn't have a moon, when it stopped making an

973
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:56,480
Speaker 1: eclipse with the star behind it, the light from the

974
00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:58,759
Speaker 1: star would just drop off, or at least drop off

975
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:01,279
Speaker 1: relatively quickly. But if it has a little moon maybe

976
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:04,120
Speaker 1: trailing behind it, then the light from the star would

977
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:06,440
Speaker 1: go down mostly but not all the way, but then

978
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:08,560
Speaker 1: a little bit of a shadow would remain, and then

979
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:10,120
Speaker 1: the shadow would go away. And that's the kind of

980
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:11,319
Speaker 1: thing you're looking for. Right.

981
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 2: There's a moment after which the planet is no longer

982
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:17,120
Speaker 2: blocking the star, but the moon might be blocking it

983
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:20,319
Speaker 2: a tiny little bit all by itself, which extends this

984
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:21,440
Speaker 2: transit dip.

985
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 1: Or maybe the moon isn't like in front of the planet,

986
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:26,719
Speaker 1: and so then first the moon gets out of view

987
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:29,760
Speaker 1: of the star, and then the planet drops out of

988
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:31,920
Speaker 1: the eclipse, and so you see this little shoulder in

989
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:32,600
Speaker 1: the light from.

990
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:35,040
Speaker 2: The star exactly, and so they see this shoulder and

991
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:38,439
Speaker 2: they can explain it using again a Neptune size moon.

992
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:41,239
Speaker 2: This planet has a Mars like orbit, so it's even

993
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:44,759
Speaker 2: further from its star than the previous one. And the

994
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:48,720
Speaker 2: planet itself is huge. It's five times the massive Jupiter,

995
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 2: so it's a really big planet with a Neptune size

996
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:55,479
Speaker 2: moon candidate. And the only explanation we have for these

997
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:59,319
Speaker 2: shoulders is an exo moon. There's no other explanation other

998
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:02,279
Speaker 2: than like just random noise, you know, maybe it's just

999
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:05,840
Speaker 2: fluctuations in the data. And they've done a statistical calculation

1000
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:08,680
Speaker 2: and that seems unlikely to like one part in one

1001
00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:12,760
Speaker 2: hundred or so, so it's not like smoking gun evidence again,

1002
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:15,200
Speaker 2: but it's a pretty nice signature of what could be

1003
00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:16,919
Speaker 2: a Neptune sized exo moon.

1004
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:19,200
Speaker 1: And we have more than one data point here in

1005
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 1: this case.

1006
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, we have more than one shoulder. They've seen several

1007
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:25,240
Speaker 2: transits of Kepler seventeen oh eight.

1008
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:27,920
Speaker 1: And it always has this little shoulder, or would you

1009
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:30,480
Speaker 1: expect it to sometimes have a shoulder sometimes not have

1010
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 1: its shoulder because the moon is kind of going around

1011
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:33,879
Speaker 1: the planet.

1012
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:36,440
Speaker 2: Right exactly, So you expect the shoulder to vary, and

1013
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 2: they see it vary and just this way you would

1014
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:41,120
Speaker 2: expect for a moon, right, it has the right wiggles

1015
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:42,040
Speaker 2: at the right time.

1016
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:45,840
Speaker 1: H Like, if you assume this, this moon, this neptum

1017
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:49,359
Speaker 1: sized moon, is going around every month, and you see

1018
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:52,320
Speaker 1: it in a monthly way in the orbit of the

1019
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:53,920
Speaker 1: planet around the start exactly.

1020
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:56,320
Speaker 2: And in this case they're able to calculate the orbit

1021
00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:58,560
Speaker 2: of the moon around the planet and has a period

1022
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:01,760
Speaker 2: of several days, and so they factor that into their model.

1023
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:04,560
Speaker 2: They have this mathematical model that says, here's the star,

1024
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:06,920
Speaker 2: here's the planet, here's the moon going around it. When

1025
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:09,360
Speaker 2: should we expect to see dips from just the planet,

1026
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:11,800
Speaker 2: from the planet plus the moon. From just the moon.

1027
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:14,600
Speaker 2: They can use that to predict very precisely the light

1028
00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:17,200
Speaker 2: curve they expect to see, and it all lines up.

1029
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:20,000
Speaker 2: I mean in reality, they've done it in reverse. They've said,

1030
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:23,880
Speaker 2: what mathematical model of that solar system would explain the

1031
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:26,520
Speaker 2: dips that we see? And the cool thing is that

1032
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:28,879
Speaker 2: they can't explain it, and they can only explain it

1033
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:31,000
Speaker 2: with a model that includes a moon.

1034
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 1: Pretty cool. Can they tell how far away. This moon

1035
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:38,520
Speaker 1: is from its planet, from the shoulders with or the

1036
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:40,680
Speaker 1: size of the shoulder. That must be how they're estimating that,

1037
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:43,160
Speaker 1: is its neptune size or is it from how the

1038
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:43,800
Speaker 1: light dips.

1039
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 2: It's definitely from how the light dips. The period comes

1040
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:50,640
Speaker 2: from when those dips happen. So yeah, you can estimate

1041
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:54,839
Speaker 2: the volume of that moon and the period of that moon.

1042
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:57,480
Speaker 1: Cool. Well, was that a big deal when they discover

1043
00:46:57,560 --> 00:46:59,759
Speaker 1: this or is this still something they're confirming this?

1044
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:03,280
Speaker 2: There's definitely something they're confirming. Nobody's like one hundred percent

1045
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:05,680
Speaker 2: sure that this is an exomoon. It's like in the

1046
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:10,360
Speaker 2: candidate stage, and they're planning to observe more with Hubble

1047
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:13,439
Speaker 2: and with James Webb and with other devices. The next

1048
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:15,640
Speaker 2: transit of this planet in the star was in March

1049
00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 2: of this year, and so I hope that they got

1050
00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:19,560
Speaker 2: some data and they're analyzing it now.

1051
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:23,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, as we speak, it might be confirming this right now.

1052
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:26,600
Speaker 2: And as more data comes in from more cool giants

1053
00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:29,279
Speaker 2: or more exoplanets, we're going to see more and more

1054
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 2: hints of exo moons, until eventually this goes from like

1055
00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:37,520
Speaker 2: maybe tentative discovery to like we are drowning in exo moons.

1056
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:40,160
Speaker 2: They're everywhere. You know, people who get their PhD and

1057
00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:42,920
Speaker 2: like a single tentative discovery are going to be amazed

1058
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:45,360
Speaker 2: when ten years later people are doing their PhDs with

1059
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:46,640
Speaker 2: thousands of candidates.

1060
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:49,719
Speaker 1: Oh, man, I guess that's how it went with exoplanets, right,

1061
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:51,520
Speaker 1: Like people for work for a long time just to

1062
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:54,880
Speaker 1: find one exoplanet, and then as the technology and the

1063
00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:57,640
Speaker 1: techniques got better, and now they're finding them by the thousands.

1064
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:01,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Now people are doing like statistical analysis, you know,

1065
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 2: distributions of planet sizes. They're looking at trends in these

1066
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:07,279
Speaker 2: planets to try to understand what it means about how

1067
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:10,239
Speaker 2: solar systems form. And so right now or at this

1068
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:12,440
Speaker 2: very exciting moment, we're on the cusp of being able

1069
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:14,719
Speaker 2: to see these exo moons, and we know that as

1070
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:17,239
Speaker 2: technology improves in the future, we're going to be able

1071
00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:21,080
Speaker 2: to ask and answer really interesting questions like how common

1072
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:23,600
Speaker 2: is it to have hundreds of moons in a solar system,

1073
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:26,799
Speaker 2: or to have moons whose relative size is so big

1074
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:28,719
Speaker 2: compared to the planet like ours is.

1075
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:31,600
Speaker 1: I guess that's the big goal, right, is to compare

1076
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:35,399
Speaker 1: other solar systems to ours. It's like our most solar

1077
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:38,239
Speaker 1: system out there like ours, or is ours weird? And

1078
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:39,839
Speaker 1: if it's weird, why is it weird? Right?

1079
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:43,959
Speaker 2: Yeah? And is that weirdness crucial for life or maybe

1080
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:46,480
Speaker 2: it hindered life here in our Solar system and made

1081
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:49,240
Speaker 2: it less likely? Right? Maybe life is really really common

1082
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:51,359
Speaker 2: in the universe and we relate to get started because

1083
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:53,400
Speaker 2: we have a weird moon or not enough moons or

1084
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:55,440
Speaker 2: too many moons or something. What we know is that

1085
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:58,840
Speaker 2: they're going to be surprises. Like when we started discovering exoplanets,

1086
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:01,400
Speaker 2: we were surprised by what we found. Our models of

1087
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:05,239
Speaker 2: how the Solar System formed have been completely upended by

1088
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:09,479
Speaker 2: our discoveries about exoplanets and exo moons. I'm sure will

1089
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:11,239
Speaker 2: also have lots of surprises.

1090
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:13,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like it was a big surprise how many exoplanets

1091
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:15,560
Speaker 1: there are out there, right, especially the ones that are

1092
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:16,080
Speaker 1: like Earth.

1093
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:19,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly how many hot jupiters there were. And the

1094
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:23,799
Speaker 2: diversity of moons in just our Solar system is crazy, right.

1095
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:25,960
Speaker 2: We have moons that were formed with planets, we have

1096
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:28,480
Speaker 2: moons that were captured, moons made had a weird stuff,

1097
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:31,320
Speaker 2: moons that might have come from collisions. They're probably a

1098
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:33,960
Speaker 2: whole other ways to make moons we haven't even thought

1099
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:36,640
Speaker 2: of because they don't exist in our solar system. The

1100
00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:39,439
Speaker 2: diversity of exo moons is going to be really, really wild.

1101
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:41,400
Speaker 2: There's going to be some weird stuff out there.

1102
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:43,799
Speaker 1: And moons have a big impact on life itself, right,

1103
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:46,080
Speaker 1: Like think about how much of life on Earth is

1104
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:48,280
Speaker 1: sort of sync to the lunar calendar.

1105
00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:51,279
Speaker 2: Yes, some people speculate that having such a big moon

1106
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:54,240
Speaker 2: with its dramatic tides could have had a big impact

1107
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 2: on the formation of life here on Earth. People think that,

1108
00:49:57,200 --> 00:49:59,800
Speaker 2: like in the brackish water between the fresh water and

1109
00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:03,640
Speaker 2: the salt water, that the sloshing around and the mixing

1110
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:06,440
Speaker 2: up of all those chemicals and the primordial soup might

1111
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 2: have really helped life form, And so having the moon

1112
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:11,360
Speaker 2: there with its big dramatic tides could have been a

1113
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:13,920
Speaker 2: big boost to the formation of life. It might be

1114
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:16,520
Speaker 2: that it's crucial to have such a big moon. That'd

1115
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:18,520
Speaker 2: be really fascinating. Right if we found life in other

1116
00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:21,120
Speaker 2: solar systems and in every case they had a weirdly

1117
00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:21,759
Speaker 2: big moon.

1118
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:25,360
Speaker 1: Whoa, we might have the moon to sign for being here.

1119
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:30,799
Speaker 2: Exactly or it might be that mostly life is on moons, right,

1120
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 2: that maybe moons are a better place to have life

1121
00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:36,480
Speaker 2: than actually the surface of the planet. You know, we

1122
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:39,879
Speaker 2: think that for example, under the ice in Europa or

1123
00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:43,520
Speaker 2: inside Io or on Ganymede, there might still be life

1124
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:45,719
Speaker 2: in our solar system. So it might be even in

1125
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:48,719
Speaker 2: our solar system that it's rare for life to start

1126
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:50,240
Speaker 2: on a planet compared to moons.

1127
00:50:51,239 --> 00:50:53,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, it might be that life is over the moon.

1128
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:56,279
Speaker 1: About having a moon, and that.

1129
00:50:56,280 --> 00:51:01,000
Speaker 2: Joke exactly, and people have really fun about how life

1130
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:04,360
Speaker 2: can evolve on these moons, using like the planetary magnetic

1131
00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:08,120
Speaker 2: field as a shield from cosmic rays and being close

1132
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:11,000
Speaker 2: to the star but avoiding being tightly locked to the star.

1133
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:13,920
Speaker 2: There's all sorts of reasons why life could form on

1134
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:16,680
Speaker 2: a moon. And because there are so many more moons

1135
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:20,239
Speaker 2: than planets, we think that means even more places for

1136
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:21,520
Speaker 2: life to start.

1137
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:25,480
Speaker 1: Right, Right, All the moons harder to have an atmosphere

1138
00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:26,680
Speaker 1: because they're smaller, are.

1139
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:28,799
Speaker 2: Smaller, so it's harder to have an atmosphere. But you

1140
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:31,360
Speaker 2: could have life within those moons, right, You could have

1141
00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 2: underwater oceans. Most life in the universe might be under

1142
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:36,480
Speaker 2: ice crusts.

1143
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:40,359
Speaker 1: Whoa, they might be cooler than us, or more most

1144
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:42,759
Speaker 1: certainly they are cooler than us, at least us here

1145
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:43,440
Speaker 1: on the podcast.

1146
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:47,160
Speaker 2: They might have no concept of the universe. Right, If

1147
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:50,920
Speaker 2: you form in a dark ocean, you can't even access

1148
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:53,560
Speaker 2: the sky, Right, you'd have to somehow drill a hole

1149
00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:56,480
Speaker 2: in that ice and climb out before you even know

1150
00:51:56,560 --> 00:51:58,920
Speaker 2: that the rest of the universe is there. What a

1151
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:00,640
Speaker 2: crazy mind shift that would happen to be.

1152
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:03,000
Speaker 1: Well, there might be like how we thought about the

1153
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:05,120
Speaker 1: Earth of the universe before, Right, we thought there was

1154
00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:07,560
Speaker 1: a ceiling. Basically, they might actually have a ceiling.

1155
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:10,680
Speaker 2: They might literally have a ceiling exactly.

1156
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:13,960
Speaker 1: Well, hopefully they'll blow the roof off with that bit

1157
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:14,680
Speaker 1: of science there.

1158
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:16,960
Speaker 2: We're always in awe of everything we discover and always

1159
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:19,640
Speaker 2: surprised by what the universe has in store for us.

1160
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:22,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I guess scientists are always aiming higher. They're

1161
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:25,799
Speaker 1: always getting more and more ambitious. In other words, they're

1162
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:29,160
Speaker 1: always shooting for the moon. All right, Well, we hope

1163
00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:32,520
Speaker 1: you enjoyed that. Thanks for joining us, See you next time.

1164
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:43,160
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening, and remember that Daniel and Jorge explain

1165
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:47,200
Speaker 2: the universe is a production of iHeartRadio. We're more podcasts

1166
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:51,880
Speaker 2: from iHeartRadio. Visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

1167
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:53,680
Speaker 2: you listen to your favorite shows.