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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds. And according to analysts g Elliott Morris,

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Speaker 1: Trump's net approval among people age eighteen to twenty nine

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Speaker 1: has declined thirty five percentage points since November twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 1: We have such a great show for you today. The

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Speaker 1: Lincoln Project's own Rick Wilson joins us to discuss Stephen

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Speaker 1: Miller's continued efforts to cast Democrats as terrorists. Then we'll

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Speaker 1: talk to Connecticut Senator Chris Murphy about how Democrats can

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Speaker 1: fight back against the Trump administration.

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Speaker 2: But first the news Somali.

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Speaker 3: We know that Democrats always have an uphill battle when

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Speaker 3: messaging because of the media environment these days. But it

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Speaker 3: seems that Trump is facing more shut down blame. But

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Speaker 3: it still seems way too close to me. In these

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Speaker 3: polls about who gets blamed for.

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Speaker 1: This, most Americans disapprove of how Republicans and Trump are

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Speaker 1: handling the shn Thirty nine percentage of percent of Americans

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Speaker 1: blamed Trump and Republicans for the for the shutdown. That's

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Speaker 1: versus thirty percent, So that's actually it was a little

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Speaker 1: bit better for Democrats when it started, half of Americans

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Speaker 1: disapprove of how Trump is handling the shutdown. Here's a

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Speaker 1: big problem for Republicans about this is like healthcare is

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Speaker 1: an eighty twenty issue. Okay, So the majority of Democrats, Independents,

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Speaker 1: and Republicans sport extending those enhanced tax credits that Democrats

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Speaker 1: demand being included in the government funding. So that's an

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Speaker 1: eighty twenty issue, right, ninety percent of Democrats, eighty percent

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Speaker 1: of Republicans, eighty percent of Independence, sixty percent of Republicans.

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Speaker 1: So there it is. People want those enhanced tax credits.

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Speaker 1: They don't want to lose their health insurance again, even

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Speaker 1: if you I think that that is sort of the

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Speaker 1: most important aspect of this. Now, it's worth remembering there

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Speaker 1: are Republicans. There were, like not insignificant number of Republicans

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Speaker 1: have had quite a few in office who want this too,

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Speaker 1: because they know that this will be a major inflationary

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Speaker 1: pressure that will hurt voters before the midterms, that will

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Speaker 1: maybe make them lose their seats. You have tariffs and

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Speaker 1: then you have health insurance going up. You know, there's

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Speaker 1: only so much inflation that the American people can take right, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, your groceries are more expensive, your health insurance

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Speaker 1: is more expensive. You elected the guy because he said

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Speaker 1: he was going to make stuff less expensive. So I

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Speaker 1: don't know, you know, I do think I think that

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Speaker 1: extending these Obamacare subsidies is just good business. But it

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Speaker 1: is interesting that both parties are getting a blame. In

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Speaker 1: earlier polls, we saw that it was more Republicans getting

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Speaker 1: the blame than Democrats. Usually the party in power gets

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Speaker 1: blamed for the shutdown. It doesn't matter if start up

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Speaker 1: the government this week. If this goes on for thirty

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Speaker 1: five days and you have federal employees eating at food banks,

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Speaker 1: that's going to be very different kind of thing. So

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Speaker 1: we have to see sort of what this shutdown ends

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Speaker 1: up looking like.

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Speaker 3: So another thing we have to see what it looks

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Speaker 3: like is Gavin Newsom is going to sue the Trump

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Speaker 3: administration for sending California National Guard to Oregon.

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Speaker 1: So in this episode of Fast Politics, you're going to

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Speaker 1: hear my interview with Chris Murphy and what And I

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Speaker 1: think Chris Murphy is really smart and one of the

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Speaker 1: things he said in this interview was and that surprised me,

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Speaker 1: and sometimes a lot of times a Democratic collected don't

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Speaker 1: really surprise me. I'm sorry to tell you, but this

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Speaker 1: I thought was really surprising and interesting, which is he

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Speaker 1: said that he got a lot of faith from the

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Speaker 1: fact that Newsom was planning to do this redistricting of

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Speaker 1: the five seats, and he said it showed that you

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Speaker 1: can push back against trump Ism. And so this makes

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Speaker 1: me think of that Newsom is going to sue Trump

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Speaker 1: for sending California National Guard troops to Oregon. We already

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Speaker 1: saw that Trump had no right to federalize the Guard

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Speaker 1: when it came to California. My guess is that this

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Speaker 1: will also be deemed illegal. And I sort of point

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Speaker 1: out again and again, and this is something that Pritzker

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Speaker 1: said to in his public comments. They keep I think

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Speaker 1: it's really important. This White House is out there with

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Speaker 1: a press release as soon as humanly possible, and they

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Speaker 1: are working it like for example, in this piece, it

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Speaker 1: says zoom in President Trump exercised his lawful authority to

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Speaker 1: protect federal assets and personnel in Portland following following violent riots.

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Speaker 1: White House spokeswoman Abigail Jackson said in a statement to Axios,

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Speaker 1: there are no violent riots right so that's fucking bullshit.

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Speaker 1: And if you're going to use statements that have lies

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Speaker 1: in them, should you be putting a verbatim statement like

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Speaker 1: that in a new in any kind of news, Like,

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Speaker 1: clearly that is not true, right. I think Newsom will win,

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Speaker 1: And I think this is illegal, and I think that

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Speaker 1: if you're axios, you should not put these statements that

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Speaker 1: contain lies in them in your reporting.

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Speaker 2: Maya.

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Speaker 3: I think we're seeing here in some research from the

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Speaker 3: Goop Maker Institute what we assumed would happen, which is

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Speaker 3: when you ban abortions and make it very hard for

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Speaker 3: women to have abortions, they have less abortions.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and now they have less abortions, But what's the

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Speaker 1: second order effect? So much of trump Ism is a

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Speaker 1: lot of like poorly thought out ideas, a lot and

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Speaker 1: very little trying to figure out this second order effect

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Speaker 1: when things happen. So I'll be curious, like who's having

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Speaker 1: these babies? And what you know? Are these teenagers having babies?

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Speaker 1: Because like when I was young, we had a teen

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Speaker 1: pregnancy epidemic. We even had that because we had abortions,

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Speaker 1: we had morning after pill, we had things. It was

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Speaker 1: just a very different world and we didn't have a

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Speaker 1: teen pregnancy epidemic the way we do now, or we

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Speaker 1: may now. We don't know, so, I mean, I think

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Speaker 1: I'll be curious to see the second order effects of this.

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Speaker 1: For the first full In the first full year after

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Speaker 1: the DABS decision, about one in three abortions in the

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Speaker 1: South and one in twelve nationwide happened in Florida. Now

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Speaker 1: Florida doesn't have abortions anymore, so they you know, so

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Speaker 1: I don't know where people go. I mean, this is

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Speaker 1: the end. It turns out maybe they don't and they

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Speaker 1: have more children than they can't afford or care for.

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Speaker 3: So, Molly, I find this case to be a really

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Speaker 3: important flashpoint because it often shows which way the wind

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Speaker 3: is blowing with how Trump pushes back. And what we're

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Speaker 3: seeing now is Kilmar Brego Garcia may have been charged

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Speaker 3: because of Trump administration's dendictiveness. A judge's founder.

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Speaker 1: Everything we're going through is because of the Trump administration's vindictiveness.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, we wouldn't have ice in Chicago,

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Speaker 1: we wouldn't have this, we wouldn't have that the whole

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Speaker 1: you know, when Trump kept saying like I'm gonna, you know,

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Speaker 1: pay back my enemies and and you know, extract retribution.

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Speaker 1: Everyone be like, no, you don't really mean that.

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Speaker 2: He'd be like, yes, I do.

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Speaker 1: Uh yeah, he does, so uh. They so they were

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Speaker 1: not going to return him. Remember they sent this guy,

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Speaker 1: this poor guy, he's a Maryland guy. He was not

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Speaker 1: in the country legally, but he did live in Maryland.

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Speaker 1: They said, they deported him. Then they had to bring

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Speaker 1: him back.

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Speaker 2: Remember they had.

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Speaker 1: All those people in that They had all those people

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Speaker 1: in that jail. By the way, we still don't know

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Speaker 1: where the out the Alligator Alcatraz people are, right, They're

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Speaker 1: just somewhere else in the system. I mean. The thing

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Speaker 1: is like, we know people are dying in this we know,

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Speaker 1: but we don't really they know, like what the numbers are,

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Speaker 1: but we certainly know. And I mean, because the mainstream

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Speaker 1: media is so small now, there's just so much that

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Speaker 1: we're missing. Like if we had the media we had

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Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen, we every day would be horror stories.

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Speaker 1: But so much of this is going on reported because

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Speaker 1: people just don't have the they don't have the lawyers,

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Speaker 1: they don't have the infrastructure, they don't have the things

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Speaker 1: they need to do that report in Rick Wilson is

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Speaker 1: the founder of the Lincoln Project and the host of

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Speaker 1: the Enemy's List.

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Speaker 2: Rick Wilson polydn fast.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to read you a tweet. We're going to

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Speaker 1: just start right with a tweet.

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Speaker 2: You ready, I'm ready, strapdad, Ready to go.

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Speaker 1: The core purpose of the organized terrorist attack on DHS

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Speaker 1: what where is there an organized terrorist attack is to

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Speaker 1: reverse to assault, and it's an assignation the twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: four election mandate to expel millions of illegal aliens at

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Speaker 1: biten a minute, Okay.

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Speaker 2: Yes, look, this is another thing that Steven Miller cranked

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Speaker 2: out in his goon cave somewhere in his house, where

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Speaker 2: he gets this enormously baroque fantasy in his head that

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Speaker 2: somehow anybody who opposes Donald Trump.

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Speaker 4: On any dimension is a terrorist.

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Speaker 2: Anyone who speaks against Donald Trump is a terrorist. Anyone

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Speaker 2: who funds a Democratic candidate is a terrorist. The problem

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Speaker 2: with this is that the people engaging in the terrorist acts,

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Speaker 2: by and large in our streets are a bunch of

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Speaker 2: massed goons who are now arresting and abusing US citizens,

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Speaker 2: who are assaulting journalists and whatever the cause, killed.

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Speaker 1: Two people right or one or two people have.

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Speaker 2: Been whatever the cause that started the public opposition to them.

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Speaker 2: It's because of Stephen Miller's desire to expel all the

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Speaker 2: brown people from a America. Let's not lie about what

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Speaker 2: it is. He is an eliminationist. He does not just

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Speaker 2: want to get rid of illegals. I promise you it

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Speaker 2: will not stop there. The next phase will be, well,

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Speaker 2: these Mexicans aren't culturally like us. They're not real Americans.

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Speaker 2: I mean, hence the whole bad Bunny attack. He's a

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Speaker 2: Puerto Rican, He's not really an American.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean, part of it is that, but I

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Speaker 1: also think this is it. I agree Steven Miller, but

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Speaker 1: I also think it's really important to just like talk

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Speaker 1: about this for one second, which is they are doing

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Speaker 1: all this messaging because they know it's not working. And

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Speaker 1: I feel like what I think Pritzker said this thing

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Speaker 1: last week that or last week a couple of days ago.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it was like a day ago, but it feels

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Speaker 1: like ten years. Pritzker said this thing where he said

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Speaker 1: videotape everything, because everything, because I think he really did

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Speaker 1: have this realization, which is like there was a moment

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Speaker 1: when Donald Trump saw the little girl crying over her

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Speaker 1: shoes when he was like, I'm a TV guy and

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Speaker 1: this is not how I want my presidency to look.

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Speaker 1: And Pritzker is in many ways trying to get that

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Speaker 1: moment to Donald Trump. Agree, disagree, No, I agree.

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Speaker 2: Look, Trump is a primarily visual thinker. He is a

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Speaker 2: guy who sees the picture. He is a guy who

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Speaker 2: sees what's on the TV. I mean, he's the Chauncey

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Speaker 2: Gardner of our era, only evil. And because these pictures

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Speaker 2: are increasingly not of ice arresting the imaginary, you know,

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Speaker 2: terrorists of trendi Agua, but in fact abusing and assaulting

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Speaker 2: and hitting and gassing women, not children, American citizens to

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Speaker 2: the ground and kicking in the door of American citizens

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Speaker 2: without a warrant. Yeah, and arresting elected officials who asked,

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Speaker 2: just asked the question do you have a warrant? The

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Speaker 2: Chicago alderman who was arrested the other day just asked,

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Speaker 2: do you have a warrant? They said, you're under a rat.

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Speaker 2: Do you have a warrant? We just want to know,

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Speaker 2: do you have a warrant. There was no violence, there

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Speaker 2: was no assault, there was no call to harm. For them,

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Speaker 2: it was a simple question that every American citizen has

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Speaker 2: a right when they are dealing with law enforcement at

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Speaker 2: any level, do you have a warrant?

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Speaker 1: But even non citizens have rights, like the whole idea.

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Speaker 2: That yeah, well yeah, And I'm bifurcating this problem a

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Speaker 2: little bit here because non citizens still have the right

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Speaker 2: to do process under our constitution. Yes, I'm sorry if

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Speaker 2: the Republicans today don't believe in that, but I'm sorry.

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Speaker 2: That is hard black letter law in the Constitution. It

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Speaker 2: is not a debatable matter that even non citizens have

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Speaker 2: certain constitutional rights. They don't have every single protection that

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Speaker 2: we do, but for due process they do. For interactions

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Speaker 2: with the criminal justice system, including ICE and DHS they do.

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Speaker 2: The declaration of a phone national emergency it does not cover,

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Speaker 2: is not legally sufficient to give ICE the power to

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Speaker 2: go and decide. Oh, a journalist asked me a question

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Speaker 2: I didn't like. I'm going to knock the fuck out

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Speaker 2: of them and hit him on and knock them to

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Speaker 2: the ground. Oh. Someone someone was was in my way

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Speaker 2: on a public sidewalk. I'm going to bear mace them.

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Speaker 4: Now.

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Speaker 2: Look, there was one of these cases where the woman

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Speaker 2: was armed. They shot her. I don't know the whole

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Speaker 2: details of the story. None of this is an argument

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Speaker 2: for violence against these ice guys, right, but there is

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Speaker 2: an argument for accountability for them well.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's what's so important about what Pritzker said.

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Speaker 1: He said he didn't say, like he said, videotape it

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Speaker 1: put it online.

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Speaker 4: Yep.

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Speaker 1: Let that, you know, let people see what's happening. And

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Speaker 1: I think that really is, you know, be peaceful. But

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Speaker 1: videotape didn't put it online. And I think I think

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Speaker 1: that is this really the only way it's going to work.

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Speaker 1: I you know, I keep thinking back back to when

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Speaker 1: I was on a stage with this guy, Scott Jennings

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Speaker 1: from MSNBC but from CNN, and we're sitting there and

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Speaker 1: he's saying all this like really inflammatory stuff, like on

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Speaker 1: climate change. He says, we're in war with China and

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Speaker 1: that's why we have to build lots of power plans

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Speaker 1: so we can win the AI war. And I just wonder,

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Speaker 1: so much of this ethos of trump Ism is really

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Speaker 1: just like getting people upset. And I just think at

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Speaker 1: some point the American people, don't you think they reject this?

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Speaker 4: No, sadly I don't. Here's why.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the American people broadly have already rejected Trump. Two

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Speaker 2: thirds of the American people for our Mogel listeners, I'm sorry,

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Speaker 2: but these are math concepts you have to get used to.

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Speaker 2: Two thirds of the American people do not want these rates, right,

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Speaker 2: they oppose it. Donald Trump is eighteen to twenty points

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Speaker 2: underwater on every economic cluster, sure, and he's the immigration

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Speaker 2: He's ten to fifteen points underwater on immigration. Nothing he

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Speaker 2: is doing that he claimed he would be good at doing.

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Speaker 2: He is good at doing.

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Speaker 1: And I think, will you talk about immigration for a minute,

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Speaker 1: because that was the one where he was okay, like

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Speaker 1: talk to about.

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Speaker 2: That was his final That was the sort of final

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Speaker 2: boss of Trump, right right. He always was believed to be,

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Speaker 2: even by some more conservative Democrats, the right guy to

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Speaker 2: seal the border and stop illegal alien crime and all.

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Speaker 4: The themes they used.

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Speaker 2: Now those things are real issues. By the way, there

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Speaker 2: are people here from other countries who commit terrible crimes,

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Speaker 2: and you know what, they should be deported, or they

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Speaker 2: should be or they should be tried and put in prison.

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Speaker 2: Either way, I'm fine, But the focus of what they've

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Speaker 2: done is not on lawbreakers. It's on people who just work.

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Speaker 2: Gardeners and nurses and home health care, aids and farmers

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Speaker 2: and constructions. So this idea that that immigration was going

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Speaker 2: to be Trump's like main thing, was predicated on, Oh,

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Speaker 2: every day we'll catch a human trafficker. Every day, will

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Speaker 2: get a murderer, every day, We'll get ten thousand drug

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Speaker 2: dealers from trendy Arragua. Those people are gone already, but

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Speaker 2: I supported a lot of them.

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Speaker 1: Right, But I also think it is important to realize

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Speaker 1: that now that Trump is president, immigration, just like regular immigration,

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Speaker 1: is as popular as it's ever been.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the stupidity level.

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Speaker 1: Do you know what the polling on that is.

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Speaker 4: I'm going to dig it up for you right now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the stupidity level of this.

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Speaker 1: The point is we don't need to know the exact number,

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Speaker 1: But the point is that Donald Trump has done more

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Speaker 1: for immigration than Democrats. Legal immigration much more popular than

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Speaker 1: Democrats could have ever.

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Speaker 2: Right, Donald Trump ended up causing so much damage throughout

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Speaker 2: the economy that now the public polling is much more

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Speaker 2: favorable to a legal immigration structure and system than it

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Speaker 2: was even when Joe was present. And what Trump has done,

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Speaker 2: I think he's actually weirdly done a service to the

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Speaker 2: immigration debate because when the imaginary debate is they're all criminals.

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Speaker 2: They're all from third world hell holes here to steal

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Speaker 2: your wife, beat your dog and cat, you know, and

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Speaker 2: burn your community down and put a taco truck on

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Speaker 2: every corner. It's easier for Fox and for the MAGA

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Speaker 2: infrastructure to demagogue this thing and go crazy on it.

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Speaker 2: Right when it's Wan the gardener, or Rosa the home

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Speaker 2: healthcare nurse or Carlos the rufer, it becomes a lot

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Speaker 2: more difficult to make this case. And the and the

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Speaker 2: majority of the people that they are deporting, the vast, vast,

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Speaker 2: vast vast majority, something like ninety five percent of them

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Speaker 2: are not hardened criminals, are not in MS thirteen are

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Speaker 2: not in trende is a. It is a deminimous number.

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Speaker 2: And they they've had now nine months to do this.

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Speaker 2: They've had nine months. Are you telling me that this

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Speaker 2: panopticon government, with all the data of Palenteer and everybody else,

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Speaker 2: can't round up the bad guys in nine months?

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Speaker 1: But I also think the probably the reason why they're

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Speaker 1: having so much trouble making these quotas is because there

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Speaker 1: aren't enough people like they're you know, they have this idea,

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Speaker 1: there's twenty million illegal quote unquote, but it's not, and

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Speaker 1: that's why there'd be so much, right find it?

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Speaker 2: Wait is it's like it's like yeah, okay, it's like this.

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Speaker 2: It's like those things when the Russians used to say,

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Speaker 2: like the beat harvest will be fifty thousand tons, right,

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Speaker 2: they're only growing like five thousand tons of beats or

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Speaker 2: whatever the number was.

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Speaker 1: Right, Well, it is with Trump really, I mean the

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Speaker 1: thing with Trump that you really do see and he's

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Speaker 1: got and he started doing this with numbers too, you know,

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Speaker 1: like they they're writing as checks for ten trillion.

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Speaker 2: Dollars, seventeen trillion dollars. It's been so far, I.

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Speaker 1: Mean it is. But the thing that with this shutdown,

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Speaker 1: like the larger question is who's running the show, because

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Speaker 1: like clear Russ Vaught and Steven Miller like running the

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Speaker 1: show outsourcing going on this.

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Speaker 2: Let me tell you what I'm what I'm given to

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Speaker 2: understand by people around the Trump orbit right now, Steven

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Speaker 2: Miller and Russ Vaught and JD. Vance have formed a

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Speaker 2: sort of loose governing alliance inside the White House. Susie

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Speaker 2: Wiles is checked out pretty much. She's in the background now.

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Speaker 2: She does the administrative stuff, not the strategic stuff. She's

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Speaker 2: not in the room for the big strategic plays anymore.

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Speaker 2: She's she's a smaller character than she was, and she

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Speaker 2: was the one nor me, me that everybody was like, oh,

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Speaker 2: thank god, Susie Wiles is there. It's grown up in

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Speaker 2: the room. It's now Miller and Miller's hold over Trump

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Speaker 2: is very simple. He says to Trump every day, Well,

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Speaker 2: the base wants us to do this. The base wants

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Speaker 2: you to do that. If you don't do this, the

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Speaker 2: bass will be angry with you. Donald, right, And and

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Speaker 2: so you see that that Vaught, Miller, Vance and Vance

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Speaker 2: is doing this because he's trying to get that jump

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Speaker 2: on twenty twenty eight, right, that that coordinated little group

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Speaker 2: is pushing forward and trying to make the immigration stuff

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Speaker 2: as hot as they can, as ugly as they can,

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Speaker 2: as as pressing as they can as an issue. I

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Speaker 2: don't think that it's working. The numbers are not great.

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Speaker 2: And the other part of this thing is, you know

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Speaker 2: Trump's inability to stay focused on anything for very long. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it always he always drifts off to something else. Now

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Speaker 2: he wants to invade Iraq or Iran. Now I wanted

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Speaker 2: to go back to Afghanistan. Now I wants to New Nicaragua,

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Speaker 2: Venezuela or whatever it is. This, yeah, all of it.

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Speaker 2: If he was every day out there messaging from the podium, right,

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Speaker 2: might be a different case. But I don't think he

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Speaker 2: can do that anymore. I don't think he has the

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Speaker 2: cognitive ability to do that these days. I think I

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Speaker 2: think he's in a it's sort of a quicksand right

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Speaker 2: now when it comes to that.

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Speaker 1: So some of this stuff, I mean, he did some speeches,

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Speaker 1: he talked today, and he talked, he did a helicopter

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Speaker 1: spray and he definitely was not you know, right, I.

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Speaker 4: Haven't seen that.

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Speaker 2: I haven't seen the footage of that yet, but I

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Speaker 2: I look his decline. I know we've been saying this

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Speaker 2: for a while. It is not subtle anymore. It's much

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Speaker 2: harder to pretend that he is not. I mean that

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Speaker 2: the jd Vance thing that somebody around Trump World literally

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Speaker 2: said to me, it's legacy.

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Speaker 4: Planning right now.

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Speaker 2: They don't want to get caught short if Trump dies

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Speaker 2: one morning, you know, on his second filet of fish

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Speaker 2: and JD.

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Speaker 4: Vance has to step up. They don't want to be short.

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Speaker 2: So that's why vances up doing all this populous raw

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Speaker 2: raw uglie bullshit.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Vance is a he is a uniquely terrible politician,

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Speaker 1: so so bad it will be a fascinating I mean

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Speaker 1: he really is, like he is like Stephen Miller. I

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Speaker 1: mean he just it's like, why is this person screaming

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Speaker 1: at me?

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Speaker 2: And yeah, and and and look. And the worst part

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Speaker 2: of it is with Stephen Miller, you know, he's psychotic.

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Speaker 2: You know, there's just some evil brewing in the heart

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Speaker 2: of Stephen Miller. With Vance, it's just ambition, which to

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Speaker 2: my mind makes it much less forgivable.

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Speaker 1: I remember saying that Advance was never Trump.

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Speaker 2: Was JD. Vance used to be on all of our

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Speaker 2: email chains back in the early days of never Trump.

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Speaker 1: Fuck that Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, I mean yeah,

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Speaker 1: jad Vance found that there was no place in the

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Speaker 1: Republican Party for never Drump.

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Speaker 2: And the obvious solution is to leave the party. That that,

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Speaker 2: But apparently, you know, JD was never quite you know,

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Speaker 2: structured enough in his moral thinking to get the fuck out.

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Speaker 1: This was much easier.

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Speaker 2: I Mean, the.

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Speaker 1: Secret about trump Ism is that if you just are loyal,

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Speaker 1: like that's all you need. You don't have to be smart.

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Speaker 1: You don't have to be cool, you just have to

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Speaker 1: be loyal.

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Speaker 2: Look, I think I think you were seeing As like

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Speaker 2: to call it. This is the early stages of the

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Speaker 2: Hunger Games of twenty twenty eight. These people are going

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Speaker 2: to rip each other to shreds. Right now. You're seeing

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Speaker 2: in the Mugga Influencer class them ripping each other to shreds,

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Speaker 2: like and who oh, Laura Luomers after Tucker Carlson.

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Speaker 4: Now you know.

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Speaker 1: She's not because he's.

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Speaker 2: Trson, you know all the you know she's a and

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Speaker 2: you know you've got you've got all these different people

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Speaker 2: racing around trying to be the one racing around trying

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Speaker 2: to be like the person covering.

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Speaker 4: Antifa and all that of their garbage.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Benny Johnson, armed up, are tooled up in in

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Speaker 2: border patrol, is level four, sappy plates on his on

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Speaker 2: his load bearing vest, running around Chicago now like he's

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Speaker 2: under gunfire.

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Speaker 4: The fuck out of here.

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Speaker 1: Rick Wilson, what do you think you know? Jesse Oas says.

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Speaker 1: This smart thing he says, which is like the worst

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Speaker 1: kind of podcasting is asking someone to predict the future.

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Speaker 2: But well, about twenty billion years from now, the sun

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Speaker 2: will begin to cool.

436
00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:05,680
Speaker 1: But I mean, do you think like when you think

437
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:09,159
Speaker 1: about Trump right now and you think about like it,

438
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:13,160
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about where we are in this admin versus

439
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:16,639
Speaker 1: and I'm trying to sort of think of like we're

440
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 1: you know, they're trying. They're doing a lot of really

441
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:24,159
Speaker 1: scary stuff. They're moving really fast and breaking things. But

442
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 1: it doesn't feel it just feel it still feels like

443
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:31,800
Speaker 1: the American people. I mean, it doesn't feel as scary

444
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:33,680
Speaker 1: as it did to me six months ago.

445
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:36,840
Speaker 2: He does not have a mandate. Yeah, he does not

446
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,399
Speaker 2: have the mandate of the people. They do not like him,

447
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:42,320
Speaker 2: They do not like what he's doing. They assess him

448
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 2: on the most important single valance to voters, the economy,

449
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,400
Speaker 2: as a complete and utter train wreck, failure, fuck up.

450
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,879
Speaker 2: He is the worst president on the economy in this

451
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:58,480
Speaker 2: country that anyone, including his own partisans, could have conceived.

452
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:01,160
Speaker 2: All the things he claimed that Joe Biden was screwing

453
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 2: up on, he has made so much worse. He has

454
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:08,000
Speaker 2: done such a poor job on. He has caused worse inflation,

455
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 2: He has caused worse job loss. And it wasn't because

456
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 2: of something that Biden did it where choice. It was

457
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:16,359
Speaker 2: because of choice as Trump made, and people know it.

458
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:20,200
Speaker 2: He does not have a mandate. The novelty of Trump

459
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:23,960
Speaker 2: for a long time has been fading. It has not

460
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:28,680
Speaker 2: faded in the political media class right who still overscore

461
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,800
Speaker 2: his ability and his influence in this country. He is

462
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 2: a dangerous, dangerous man, but he is also a crumbling edifice.

463
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 2: He has also never been smart. He is also constantly

464
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 2: obsessed about the things that he knows he's done in

465
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 2: the past, like the Epstein stuff, and he is he

466
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 2: is flailing around right now in a way that's not

467
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:54,639
Speaker 2: going to build public trust or confidence. It's not going

468
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:56,920
Speaker 2: to No one's gonna wake up in the morning and go, well,

469
00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 2: thank God, we're covering up the Epstein files. God, I

470
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 2: like Trump now, Rick Wilson, we come back as always,

471
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 2: you know me.

472
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:12,239
Speaker 1: Chris Murphy is the junior senator from the state of

473
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 1: connect Welcome to Fast Politics. Senator Chris Murphy.

474
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:17,880
Speaker 2: Hey, thanks for having me back.

475
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 1: I feel like I've interviewed you so many times, and

476
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 1: I read you, I watch you, and I watch the

477
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:27,159
Speaker 1: way you've changed to this moment in American life, like

478
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 1: going from a safe blue senator with aspirations to a

479
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 1: person who is just really worried about where we are

480
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:39,840
Speaker 1: in this country right now. And I feel like it's

481
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:43,639
Speaker 1: very clear to me that that you've become like really

482
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 1: a moral conscience of this moment. What is the sort

483
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 1: of emotional journey you've been on in a way. I mean,

484
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 1: I know you're your senator, but like you clearly are

485
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 1: meeting the moment in a way that a lot of

486
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:56,359
Speaker 1: people are not.

487
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:59,680
Speaker 5: It's like a really wonderful backhanded compliment. I will accept

488
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:01,200
Speaker 5: the fact that I used to be worse and now

489
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:01,640
Speaker 5: I'm better.

490
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 1: You were good before, but you know, like what you're

491
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 1: doing now is like full time twenty four to seven,

492
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 1: just talking about what's happening.

493
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,239
Speaker 5: Yeah, So I mean, listen, I don't know why I

494
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 5: have sort of seen the threat with clarity, but I've

495
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:20,679
Speaker 5: seen the threat. I was confident from the minute he

496
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 5: was sworn in that he was cooking up something fundamentally

497
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:28,159
Speaker 5: different in this term than from the first term, and

498
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 5: that we were going to be in a fight from

499
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 5: the moment he showed up in that office to save

500
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:37,919
Speaker 5: our democracy. A part of that, Molly is that you know,

501
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 5: I did spend a bunch of the last four years

502
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 5: kind of digging into the pseudo intellectual underpinnings of MAGA.

503
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:47,200
Speaker 5: And you know, there are these two ideas that have

504
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 5: become very much mainstream inside Donald Trump's orbit, and they

505
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,199
Speaker 5: are that democracy is really not worth it any longer,

506
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:59,640
Speaker 5: that it's an Peter tal yes. And the second one

507
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:04,480
Speaker 5: is that you know, progressives the left represent an existential

508
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:08,920
Speaker 5: threat to the national identity, which to MAGA is a

509
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:13,400
Speaker 5: white Christian, male dominated identity. And so you know, they

510
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 5: don't really care about getting rid of democracy because it

511
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 5: serves their end, which is to eliminate progressives in the

512
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 5: left from the body politics. So I just think you

513
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 5: have to understand that, you know, that sort of anti

514
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:31,399
Speaker 5: small d democratic sentiment inside the Republican Party, which maybe

515
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 5: was a bit fringe in twenty sixteen, is now mainstream.

516
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:39,480
Speaker 5: And so this is a serious moment, perhaps the most

517
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 5: serious moment this country has faced since the Civil War,

518
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 5: and we have to treat it that way.

519
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, I feel like you lose a democracy in

520
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 1: tiny ways and in it, you know, slowly and all

521
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 1: at once. And I feel like you have been very

522
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 1: clear about some of those moments. So I would love

523
00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 1: you to sort of talk about where you think we

524
00:28:58,440 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 1: are right now, Well.

525
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 5: I think we're almost there, right. I mean, I think

526
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 5: we're much closer to losing the democracy than people think

527
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,640
Speaker 5: we are. And I do think there's this fallacy whereby

528
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 5: people are waiting for this one seismic moment.

529
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 2: But that's not.

530
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 5: Really what happens in the story of democracies that disintegrate,

531
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 5: Elections don't really ever get canceled. There's not normally a who.

532
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 5: What occurs is that the space where political descent just

533
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 5: gets contracted so badly that the minority party of the

534
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 5: opposition party can never win a national election. And I

535
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 5: think we have this tendency to only live in one

536
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 5: news cycle at a time, and we forget on Tuesday

537
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 5: what happened on Monday, and we don't have the muscles

538
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 5: to be able to understand the cumulative impact of everything

539
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 5: that he has done. But this has been systematic, the

540
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 5: way he has gone after law firms, gone after college campuses,

541
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 5: going after states with governors who you speak too meanly

542
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 5: about him, using the power of the purse to reward

543
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 5: loyal states and punished states that have leaders who criticize him.

544
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 5: The consolidation of the media happening as we speak right.

545
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:22,480
Speaker 5: Trump allies now on the verge of owning CBS, TikTok Meta, CNN.

546
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 5: This is the story of how a country like Hungary

547
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 5: or a country like Turkey slipped into illiberal democracy bordering

548
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 5: on autocracy. And if we don't understand that times are

549
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 5: running out for us to make a stand, we may

550
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 5: have an election in twenty twenty six.

551
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 2: Trump's supper rands.

552
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 5: Might be at thirty two percent and Democrats will still

553
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 5: lose because our base stays home because they just gave up.

554
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 5: Our donors run for the hills because they don't want

555
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 5: to be grasped by Trump. The media just doesn't tell

556
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 5: the true story. They platform maga content, but they don't

557
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 5: platform criticism.

558
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 2: That's a restled bee for disaster.

559
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 1: None of this is particularly popular, Like we're talking about

560
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 1: Project twenty twenty five, the Unitary Executive Executor theory that

561
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 1: Trump should be sort of a god king and that

562
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 1: every branch of the federal government should serve his desires

563
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 1: not popular, but being implemented not popular.

564
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 5: And I think there is a conversation happening here in

565
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 5: DC whereby you know, some of my colleagues are some

566
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 5: pundits saying, well, you know, you shouldn't really talk about

567
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 5: democracy because you know, democracy didn't win the election force

568
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 5: in twenty twenty four, and so let's not talk about

569
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 5: it now. I don't think that gives voters credit, right,

570
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 5: they know that this is a different knowledge than twenty

571
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 5: twenty four. I mean, they've seen what he has done.

572
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 5: There's a new poll that shows eighty percent of Americans

573
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 5: believe that we are in a political crisis, and that

574
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 5: for the first time ever, over fifty percent of Americans

575
00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 5: worry that their ability to speak, for that the freedom

576
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 5: of speech is being a bridge to the point of

577
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 5: potentially being destroyed. That's exceptional, and so I think people

578
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 5: are ready for us to elevate this question of the

579
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:13,479
Speaker 5: rule of law, to come after him for his belief

580
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 5: that he's a king. You know, just because we didn't

581
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 5: win in twenty twenty four, talking about democracy doesn't mean

582
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 5: that we can't win now. People know the circumstances are different.

583
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 5: They know this threat is real, is present.

584
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 1: Is clear because he's doing it, because he's been president

585
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 1: for nine months and we've seen like just seis rollbacks

586
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 1: of our rights. So this gets me to a question,

587
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 1: which is, like, I'm friends with a lot of these

588
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:41,760
Speaker 1: people in leadership, and I talk to their offices. And again,

589
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 1: this is not like me criticizing because I think I'm

590
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 1: you know whatever. It's me criticizing because I'm genuinely worried

591
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:51,479
Speaker 1: that we're in a five alon fire. Why is it

592
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 1: so hard for leadership to message that, well, I.

593
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 5: Mean, this is not I guess for me, like right now,

594
00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 5: in the middle of a shutdown fight, I'm not super

595
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 5: interesting in internal critiques. I just want everybody to start

596
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 5: fighting the totalitarianism. I do think though, that for people

597
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 5: that are more comfortable talking about, for instance, healthcare and

598
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 5: healthcare premiums that are going up, these are the same story,

599
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 5: right right. So Trump is doing these super unpopular things,

600
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 5: robbing from people, taking their health care away in order

601
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 5: to pad the pockets of billionaires. And the only way

602
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 5: that he gets away with something down unpopular is by

603
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 5: also destroying your ability to protest. And so if he

604
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 5: gets away with the destruction of democracy, then he's going

605
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 5: to be able to more easily just take stuff from you,

606
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 5: your kid's education, your healthcare, money for street improvements in

607
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:46,480
Speaker 5: your neighborhood, and hand it to corporations and billionaires. So

608
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 5: the only way that you protect yourself and your ability

609
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 5: to manage your budget.

610
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 2: As prices are going up.

611
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 5: Is to fight his totalitarianism, is to fight what he

612
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 5: is doing to try to destroy our democracy. Because that's

613
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 5: the other feature of these countries that have slid into

614
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 5: illiberal democracy is that the separation between rich and poortges

615
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:11,319
Speaker 5: get bigger and bigger and bigger, because they become totalitarian oligarchies,

616
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,240
Speaker 5: not just totalitarian states like Russia.

617
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:17,279
Speaker 1: I mean, the polling show is that the base is

618
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:21,439
Speaker 1: furious that there are a percentage of Democrats that are

619
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:27,120
Speaker 1: so incredibly angry, and it's created a kind of complicated dynamic.

620
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:29,239
Speaker 1: Do you feel like there's a way to tap into

621
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:32,919
Speaker 1: that and do you feel like those people can use

622
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:36,760
Speaker 1: that energy for you know, what needs to happen right now.

623
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 2: Well, some of that is.

624
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 5: Due to Trump's successful, you know, strategy and approach. I mean,

625
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:47,400
Speaker 5: he He's engaged in this sort of dizzying attacks on

626
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 5: free speech, attacks on people's pocketbooks. It's a new story

627
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:53,200
Speaker 5: every day, and for a lot of people, you know,

628
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 5: they retreat in part because it's just all too overwhelming.

629
00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 5: But for other people, they are retreating because they worry

630
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 5: that Democrats are powerless. That's why, you know, probably the

631
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 5: most important thing that has happened on our side in

632
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,880
Speaker 5: the last few months is Gavin Newsom's moved to a

633
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 5: redistrict in California because it sort of showed a pathway

634
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 5: of power. It showed that we had options, tools at

635
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 5: our disposal that.

636
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 2: We could use.

637
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 5: This is one of those tools right now. Right the

638
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 5: leverage that Democrats have to say, here are the conditions

639
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:26,680
Speaker 5: upon which we are willing to vote for a budget.

640
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 5: And I think people want us to do more than

641
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:34,960
Speaker 5: just say we want healthcare subsidies turned back on for

642
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:37,359
Speaker 5: twenty two million Americans. I think they also want us

643
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:41,360
Speaker 5: to say we are not going to willingly fund a

644
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:45,480
Speaker 5: budget that destroys our democracy. I'm not going to be

645
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:49,759
Speaker 5: a sucker and vote for to fund a DOJ that

646
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 5: turns around and hunts me and my political palt Why

647
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 5: on earth would I do that? And if we do it,

648
00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 5: it makes us look impotent and weak, and it causes

649
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 5: more people out there who hate what Trump is doing

650
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:07,000
Speaker 5: to just pull back from politics because they don't think

651
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 5: that there's any use in voting for an opposition party

652
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 5: that doesn't use all the tools that it has at

653
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:16,880
Speaker 5: its disposal to fight all of the illegality and the corruption.

654
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 5: And I'll just say this, I'm not unrealistic about this

655
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:21,799
Speaker 5: when I say that we should fight to preserve democracy.

656
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:23,719
Speaker 5: I'm not saying that we're only going to sign on

657
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 5: to a budget that eliminates all of Trump's corruption. But

658
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 5: I think we're going to make some progress. We've at

659
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:30,840
Speaker 5: least got to throw some sand in the gears to

660
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 5: try to slow down on the illegality and the corruption.

661
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:37,719
Speaker 1: So Republican members of Appropriation have said that it would

662
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:40,480
Speaker 1: be I mean, this was reported, you know, under the

663
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:45,320
Speaker 1: cloak of anonymity, as all Republican criticism is, but that

664
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:48,839
Speaker 1: said Democrats would be crazy to sign on to any

665
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:51,759
Speaker 1: kind of budget because of the pocket recessions, because this

666
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:54,799
Speaker 1: administration is not good on its ward. Democrats are coming

667
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 1: up against the problem that foreign countries have, which is

668
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:02,760
Speaker 1: you can't trust Trump literally, figuratively, metaphorically period.

669
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 5: You know, it is worth just noting what an odds

670
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 5: system we have here. You know, we are essentially in

671
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:14,240
Speaker 5: coalition government with Republicans because our rules require democratic votes

672
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:18,319
Speaker 5: for a budget. In you know, other parliamentary systems, it's

673
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 5: just the majority party that has to deliver the votes here.

674
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 5: They need our participation, which means they have to present

675
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 5: as good faith partners. They cannot bring us to the

676
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:32,480
Speaker 5: negotiating table say yeah, we're going to agree to this

677
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 5: much money in New York and Connecticut, and then once

678
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 5: we give our votes, we find out that none of

679
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:40,840
Speaker 5: the money in the budget is being spent on our states.

680
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:42,399
Speaker 2: Trump's doing that right now, right he.

681
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:46,239
Speaker 5: Is brazenly canceling projects only in democratic states as a

682
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 5: means to, I guess, try to bully us to the

683
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 5: negotiating table. There are things that we can do in

684
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:55,360
Speaker 5: this budget that would at the very least make it

685
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:58,440
Speaker 5: harder for Trump to get away with that kind of

686
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 5: sort of pulling the rug from under democratic priorities. Provisions

687
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:05,080
Speaker 5: that would make it absolutely clear that he has to

688
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 5: spend all the money in the budget, not just in

689
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:09,759
Speaker 5: the states that he deems to be loyal to him,

690
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:13,240
Speaker 5: and would give you know, my governor an easy rights

691
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:16,640
Speaker 5: to go to court to get the money turned back on.

692
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:19,520
Speaker 5: So you can't stop him from acting illegally, but you

693
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 5: can make it a lot easier for the victims of

694
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 5: his illegality to go to court and get a pretty

695
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:27,400
Speaker 5: quick injunction, and that's what we would be looking for

696
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:28,720
Speaker 5: in this budget.

697
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 1: That seems like something that would be sort of easy

698
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:34,760
Speaker 1: to slip by Trump world because they're not so detail oriented,

699
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 1: with the exception of Rastavant, and something that Republicans might

700
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 1: agree to because they don't necessarily like this appropriations fight.

701
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 1: They have lost the power of the purse and the

702
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:49,000
Speaker 1: power of oversight. Do you think there's appetite there for

703
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 1: that or no?

704
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 5: Well, I listen, I don't think it makes a lot

705
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 5: of sense to negotiate the details in public.

706
00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:57,239
Speaker 2: I just for.

707
00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:01,279
Speaker 5: Now, we need to say, and this is my recommendation,

708
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:03,399
Speaker 5: we need to say that if you want our votes

709
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:05,239
Speaker 5: for this budget, there are two things you got up do.

710
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:07,880
Speaker 5: You've got to stop people supreams from going up by

711
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:11,880
Speaker 5: seventy five percent fundamentallyum moral that you are robbing people

712
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:14,279
Speaker 5: of health care in order to have the pockets of billionaires.

713
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:17,440
Speaker 5: And you've got put constraints on Trump's illegality. You've got

714
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 5: to give us a shot to have a free and

715
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 5: fair election in twenty twenty six and twenty twenty eight.

716
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 5: And I think we're talking about constraints on his ability

717
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:28,239
Speaker 5: to seize spending power. That's important, but there's a number

718
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:30,880
Speaker 5: of other things that we could talk about, including the

719
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:33,400
Speaker 5: way in which he is using federal troops to be

720
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 5: deployed to our cities, that could be on the table

721
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:38,880
Speaker 5: as part of that conversation about protecting our democracy.

722
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:40,640
Speaker 2: So, yes, there are a lot.

723
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:43,719
Speaker 5: Of options we have at our disposal, and I think

724
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 5: a lot of that can be fleshed out at a

725
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 5: negotiating table.

726
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:50,240
Speaker 1: These blue states are paying more money into the federal

727
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:54,239
Speaker 1: government and they're being denied the money back. I mean,

728
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 1: some of these governors, like you know, California, it's the

729
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 1: fourth largest economy in the world. Are the conversations about,

730
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 1: like what power the states have when it comes to

731
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 1: federal funds.

732
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:14,279
Speaker 5: Obviously, there are a set of much edgier techniques that

733
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 5: are on the table at our disposal to try to

734
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:23,760
Speaker 5: arrest this slide away from democracy. Whether it's states taking

735
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:28,120
Speaker 5: unilateral action about the money they send them to Washington,

736
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 5: whether it's the you.

737
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:31,880
Speaker 1: Know, vaccines we saw that, Yeah.

738
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 5: Tech techniques that have been used in other fights like

739
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:38,560
Speaker 5: general strikes. My feeling is this, we have leverage right

740
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 5: now through the ordinary political process to try to fix

741
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 5: these problems. And so before we go to those edgier techniques,

742
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 5: which I think just have to be on the table,

743
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:53,880
Speaker 5: those edgier tactics, let's try to use the sort of

744
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 5: conventional route, which is using our power as a minority

745
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 5: party to say, if you want us to sign on

746
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 5: to this budget, and right now they need us to

747
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:06,120
Speaker 5: sign onto this budget, you have got to put our

748
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:08,360
Speaker 5: democracy back on a healthy pathway.

749
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 2: So I think that's where the focus needs to be

750
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 2: right now.

751
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 1: You've been in DC a long time and you do

752
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:16,359
Speaker 1: know a lot of these people personally. Do you think

753
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 1: that Republicans understand how different this is that Trump two

754
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:21,680
Speaker 1: point out is to Trump to one point out or

755
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 1: are they just still hide bought in?

756
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:25,839
Speaker 5: No, I mean, I do not think Republicans are going

757
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 5: to save us. There are a handful in the Senate

758
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:33,640
Speaker 5: who know this is wrong, but it is a shrinking number,

759
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:38,680
Speaker 5: a number that is shrinking almost to the point of irrelevancy. Again,

760
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:40,799
Speaker 5: it is just important to remember what I said at

761
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:44,520
Speaker 5: the outset that the mainstream Republican thinking right now is

762
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:48,440
Speaker 5: that democracy is not worth it if it elects democrats

763
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:49,520
Speaker 5: right period.

764
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:49,920
Speaker 4: Stop.

765
00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 5: They want power, and they want power at any cost,

766
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:58,279
Speaker 5: and that is the view of now the sizeable majority

767
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:02,919
Speaker 5: of Republicans in the House and in the Senate, and

768
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:07,400
Speaker 5: so well, yes, we have an ability right now to

769
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 5: sort of force them to do the right thing because

770
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:15,279
Speaker 5: they might lose their seats if they raise people's premiums.

771
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 5: They're only going to come to the table because they're

772
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:20,840
Speaker 5: worried about their election. They're not going to come to

773
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:23,920
Speaker 5: the table again. The majority of them are not going

774
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 5: to come to the table because they actually know what

775
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 5: he's doing is wrong.

776
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:28,720
Speaker 2: That ship is kind of sailed.

777
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:31,640
Speaker 5: As dire as things are, we saw what happened with

778
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 5: Kimmel that people stood up and canceled their subscriptions and

779
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 5: forced it. So like it is still within our power

780
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 5: to stand up and mobilized. And yeah, I'm worried that

781
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:44,400
Speaker 5: people are losing faith in the Democratic opposition. My hope

782
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:48,440
Speaker 5: is that by standing our ground right now for people's healthcare,

783
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:51,120
Speaker 5: for our democracy, we can show folks that were relevant

784
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:53,840
Speaker 5: and that we'll have big turnouts in the fall elections.

785
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:56,239
Speaker 5: We'll get some momentum going. We'll be back out on

786
00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:59,120
Speaker 5: the streets for the no Kings protests on the eighteenth.

787
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:00,920
Speaker 5: Sometimes I can, you know, be a little bit of

788
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:02,879
Speaker 5: a downer because I'm just trying to be realistic with people.

789
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:03,759
Speaker 2: But there's a lot of.

790
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 5: Promise, a lot of hope, and a lot of power

791
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:07,560
Speaker 5: in what we can do in the next couple of months.

792
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:10,279
Speaker 1: I agree, Thank you, thanks.

793
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 2: Thanks mind a moment, oh fuck, Rick Wilson, Well, I

794
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:17,960
Speaker 2: drunk fast.

795
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:21,480
Speaker 1: We are at that moment, the moment of fucker.

796
00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 2: Y, the moment which the fuckery begins.

797
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:26,760
Speaker 1: That is right, what would you what is your moment

798
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:27,440
Speaker 1: of fuck right?

799
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:28,040
Speaker 4: Oh?

800
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:31,640
Speaker 2: Look, I think the moment of fuckery was little Pete Hegseth,

801
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:33,799
Speaker 2: a man who wears more hair product than the two

802
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:37,440
Speaker 2: of us combined and more makeup than than the average

803
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:42,200
Speaker 2: drag queen, prancing around the stage lecturing eight hundred senior

804
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:47,440
Speaker 2: flag officers and senior enlisted figures from the military on

805
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:53,239
Speaker 2: on warrior prowess and and and martial skill in combat

806
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:57,799
Speaker 2: and toughness. When he is a Fox News weekend host

807
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:02,239
Speaker 2: and a chronic drunkard. This this went over as you

808
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:04,919
Speaker 2: might have expected, like a wet fart and a hot

809
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 2: car on a first date. It was what it was

810
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 2: a complete train wreck.

811
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:10,320
Speaker 5: What were what.

812
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:12,440
Speaker 1: Were people saying in the room?

813
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:14,919
Speaker 4: Well, it's what they weren't saying that matter.

814
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:18,720
Speaker 2: They weren't applauding, they weren't yelling who, they weren't jumping

815
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:19,279
Speaker 2: up and down.

816
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:21,600
Speaker 4: When he finished that speech.

817
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:24,440
Speaker 2: The very best moment of the entire thing, He's like,

818
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:27,680
Speaker 2: we're the Department of War, Go get them. And he

819
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:31,240
Speaker 2: looked at that audience and he waited, and he waited

820
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:34,279
Speaker 2: another beat, and then another beat, and he looks down

821
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:36,280
Speaker 2: for one second. You could see his whole face collapse

822
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 2: for one second, then looks back up and walks off

823
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:40,719
Speaker 2: the state. I know it's a little thing, but those

824
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:43,120
Speaker 2: eight hundred generals and admirals in that office, in that

825
00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:46,000
Speaker 2: in that room, in that auditorium, and the and the

826
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:48,799
Speaker 2: and the dozens and dozens of senior enlisted folks in

827
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:51,239
Speaker 2: that room, in the Trumpian climate, the right thing would

828
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:53,319
Speaker 2: have been to clap, stand up, you know, let let

829
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:56,439
Speaker 2: the pit powers that be see you being on their team. Yeah,

830
00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 2: not one of them did it. And not one of

831
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:02,319
Speaker 2: them stood or clapped for Trump, not one, not one,

832
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:06,880
Speaker 2: not once. And it was it was, to my mind,

833
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:10,279
Speaker 2: the fuckery of Trump and Hexeth trying to rally or

834
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:11,560
Speaker 2: get those people in the rooms so they could have

835
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:16,240
Speaker 2: a Trump campaign rally was pathetic and dangerous to the country.

836
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:20,239
Speaker 2: And and the great thing about it was this time

837
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:22,400
Speaker 2: their fuckery failed. It blew up in their face and

838
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:26,440
Speaker 2: it embarrassed this White House and the embarrassed Secretory defense dramatically.

839
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:31,479
Speaker 1: My favorite part of it was that Trump wouldn't let

840
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:35,239
Speaker 1: heg Seth have the photo ops, so he came like

841
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:39,800
Speaker 1: that is as someone who's from a family of performers,

842
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:43,759
Speaker 1: Like I get that so hard, Like I get it man,

843
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 1: Like you're calling all the generals back. They're not gonna

844
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 1: see you know, like you may think you're the you're

845
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:51,279
Speaker 1: the main event, but you are not right.

846
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:53,000
Speaker 4: You know that.

847
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:56,319
Speaker 2: That's a really good point. And Trump's ego drove him

848
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:59,000
Speaker 2: over there. I also heard that Vance was pushing him

849
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:01,879
Speaker 2: to go over there to make sure Hegseth didn't get

850
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:04,880
Speaker 2: a solo show. But you know, with Hegseth on the stage,

851
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:07,440
Speaker 2: it was everything but him holding his camera up and

852
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:10,160
Speaker 2: doing a selfie and then and the duck face for

853
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:11,360
Speaker 2: with the crowd.

854
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:15,440
Speaker 1: It was amaz telling you the the game of throwing

855
00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:21,239
Speaker 1: stuff with Heg Sas and RFK and JD. Vance and

856
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:26,520
Speaker 1: like it is Marco and all of the yeah yeah.

857
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 2: Rick Wilson, Hey, Mollie, John Fast. I will not speak

858
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:31,880
Speaker 2: to you again until next weekend about this one issue.

859
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:33,800
Speaker 2: But it's Nobel week.

860
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:36,320
Speaker 4: What are your what are your? What odds you taking that?

861
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:38,440
Speaker 2: On Friday we're gonna hear that Donald Trump is the

862
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 2: nominee for the Nobel Peace Prize.

863
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:42,840
Speaker 1: I think that Donald Trump is likely to get a

864
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:46,200
Speaker 1: Nobel Prize as I am there you go, all right, good,

865
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:51,440
Speaker 1: No pleasure to report because I would like a prize.

866
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:56,360
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in

867
00:46:56,560 --> 00:47:02,000
Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday and Saturday to hear the best

868
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:06,399
Speaker 1: minds and politics make sense of all this chaos. If

869
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:09,480
Speaker 1: you enjoy this podcast, please send it to a friend

870
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:13,120
Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going. Thanks for listening.