WEBVTT - #383 Jason Flom with Nelson Cruz 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.239 We originally released our coverage of Nelson Cruz on March seventeenth, 0:00:03.279 --> 0:00:07.360 twenty twenty one. Since then, there have been some remarkable developments, 0:00:07.600 --> 0:00:10.360 and we're re releasing this episode stitching in a new 0:00:10.360 --> 0:00:16.080 interview with the man himself. Mister Nelson Cruz. East New 0:00:16.160 --> 0:00:20.040 York is a notoriously tough Brooklyn neighborhood. In the seventies, eighties, 0:00:20.040 --> 0:00:23.560 and nineties, it had an equally corrupt local precinct, the 0:00:23.600 --> 0:00:27.080 seven to five or seventy fifth Precinct, home to many 0:00:27.240 --> 0:00:31.600 of the wrongful convictions of notorious and YPD detectives Luis 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:36.240 Carcela and Stephen Camille. On March twenty eighth, nineteen ninety eight, 0:00:36.320 --> 0:00:39.000 Nelson Cruz was out in the neighborhood with some friends 0:00:39.159 --> 0:00:42.920 celebrating his seventeenth birthday over Chinese food when they heard 0:00:42.960 --> 0:00:47.000 gunshots close by, so close, in fact, that they saw 0:00:47.040 --> 0:00:51.120 the police swoop in immediately to get the situation under control. 0:00:51.560 --> 0:00:55.040 A police officer had seen the actual muscle flash of 0:00:55.080 --> 0:00:59.040 the gun in Eduardo Rodriguez's hand. Trevor Vieira, a man 0:00:59.080 --> 0:01:02.120 in his mid twentieth known for stickups, was lying dead 0:01:02.160 --> 0:01:05.720 in the street. Rodriguez was brought in for questioning, where 0:01:05.880 --> 0:01:09.120 Scarcela and Camille turned what should have been an open 0:01:09.160 --> 0:01:14.520 and shutcase into another horrific wrongful conviction with the false 0:01:14.600 --> 0:01:17.520 testimony of a man who didn't even know police were 0:01:17.600 --> 0:01:21.360 unseen to arrest Rodriguez, and in spite of the testimony 0:01:21.480 --> 0:01:25.319 of that uniform police officer stating that Nelson Cruz was 0:01:25.400 --> 0:01:29.640 definitely not the shooter, Nelson was convicted and sentenced to 0:01:29.760 --> 0:01:32.680 twenty five years to life. And if matters couldn't get 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:37.800 any worse, despite a mountain of new exculpatory evidence, the 0:01:37.959 --> 0:01:42.080 judge who oversaw his most recent appeal suffers now from 0:01:42.280 --> 0:01:46.440 early onset Alzheimer's, which has impaired her ability to follow 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:51.200 the case and set Nelson free. This is Wrongful Conviction 0:01:51.480 --> 0:02:07.880 with Jason Flopp. Hello, This is a prepaid collect call 0:02:07.960 --> 0:02:11.760 from an inmate at New York State Department of Corrections 0:02:11.760 --> 0:02:13.200 and Community Supervision. 0:02:13.639 --> 0:02:17.280 This call is subject to recording and monitoring. To accept charges, 0:02:17.360 --> 0:02:20.320 press one to refuse charges, Press two. 0:02:21.320 --> 0:02:25.040 Thank you for using securis. You may start the conversation now. 0:02:25.800 --> 0:02:28.920 Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm That's me. 0:02:29.040 --> 0:02:33.919 I'm your host today. We have a deeply, deeply troubling 0:02:34.080 --> 0:02:36.720 situation to talk to you about. Today. We're on the 0:02:36.840 --> 0:02:40.040 phone with Nelson Cruz, an innocent man who's been in 0:02:40.080 --> 0:02:43.120 prison for a twenty two years now in New York State, 0:02:43.320 --> 0:02:46.560 and I'm going to introduce now to you an attorney. 0:02:46.560 --> 0:02:48.720 You have a tremendous amount of respect for who I'm 0:02:48.720 --> 0:02:50.880 proud to work with on a day to day basis 0:02:50.919 --> 0:02:54.280 on various cases, including this one. Justin bonus, Welcome to 0:02:54.320 --> 0:02:55.080 wrongful Conviction. 0:02:55.440 --> 0:02:56.680 Good morning, Jason. How are you? 0:02:56.919 --> 0:02:59.040 I'm all right. Thanks, I'm glad to be here with you, 0:02:59.200 --> 0:03:01.080 and most of all, I'm glad to be here with 0:03:01.200 --> 0:03:04.520 the man of the hour, Nelson Cruz. Nelson, I'm sorry 0:03:04.560 --> 0:03:06.680 you have to be here under these circumstances, but I'm 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:08.639 really glad you're here to tell your story. So welcome 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:09.520 to wronfuel conviction. 0:03:09.840 --> 0:03:10.720 Good morning, Jason. 0:03:11.040 --> 0:03:13.160 And which prison are you in now? 0:03:13.480 --> 0:03:15.919 What Burn Correction? The facility up state in New York. 0:03:16.280 --> 0:03:18.280 Can you take us back to that time. 0:03:18.680 --> 0:03:20.760 I was in tenth grade at the time. It was 0:03:20.800 --> 0:03:23.680 a nice night in March twenty eighth, nineteen ninety eight, 0:03:23.800 --> 0:03:26.600 the day before my birthday. Me and like three of 0:03:26.600 --> 0:03:28.919 my friends. We walked around the corner to the Chinese 0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:32.840 restaurant to purchase some food, and me and my friends was, 0:03:32.880 --> 0:03:35.680 you know, laughing and joking like we usually do. We 0:03:35.720 --> 0:03:39.480 stepped outside and shot the fire down the block on 0:03:39.640 --> 0:03:42.040 braffing and picking, and when I looked, I've seen a 0:03:42.080 --> 0:03:45.240 police officer car that pulled up immediately and was getting 0:03:45.280 --> 0:03:47.720 the area under control, and I've seen that they had 0:03:47.760 --> 0:03:51.120 a Spanish guy on the floor and there was arresting 0:03:51.160 --> 0:03:55.920 the guy. However, about four in the morning, Homicide contacted 0:03:55.960 --> 0:03:58.400 my mom's told my mother they wanted to interview me 0:03:58.560 --> 0:04:00.960 for the murder. And I was like, how can it be. 0:04:01.040 --> 0:04:03.000 I don't have nothing to do with the situation. So 0:04:03.160 --> 0:04:04.960 my big weather sid we're going to get an attorney. 0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:06.640 We're going to go down to the priest. Don't go 0:04:06.680 --> 0:04:09.240 down there by yourself, because you know, the semi fifth 0:04:09.240 --> 0:04:13.760 prison is dirty. I said, fine, And on April third, 0:04:14.200 --> 0:04:16.720 about attorney went to the prison with the attorney and 0:04:17.360 --> 0:04:19.960 went to a lineup and I've never seen the scrief again. 0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:22.719 Justin I want to turn to you because this case 0:04:22.920 --> 0:04:26.479 is the definition of an open and shut case. It 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:30.039 should have never even been anywhere near Nelson or his 0:04:30.160 --> 0:04:34.000 family because they knew from day one exactly who did it. 0:04:34.040 --> 0:04:36.119 Can you explain what I'm talking about here? 0:04:36.640 --> 0:04:39.680 This murder happens March twenty eighth, nineteen ninety eight, at 0:04:39.680 --> 0:04:43.560 eleven fifteen at the corner of Bradford and Picking. Two 0:04:43.600 --> 0:04:47.839 cops in a patrol car. Officer William Pietti actually watches 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:50.760 the man with the ponytail, who we later find out 0:04:50.880 --> 0:04:54.000 is at Wardo Rodriguez, firing the gun, sees the muzzle 0:04:54.080 --> 0:04:57.560 flare towards Bradford and Picking, which is where the deceased 0:04:57.640 --> 0:05:01.839 Trevor Vieira was found. Pietti actually arrests at Wardo Rodriguez, 0:05:01.839 --> 0:05:05.640 tells him to drop the gun, and Officer Palmery chases 0:05:05.640 --> 0:05:08.560 a black man. I guess who runs away. These are 0:05:08.680 --> 0:05:12.760 what the two cops say at one thirty one five 0:05:12.800 --> 0:05:15.120 in the morning when they're interviewed by none other than 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:19.840 Detective Lewis Scarcela and Detective Steven Kimmel. And just to 0:05:20.040 --> 0:05:23.200 tell you who those men are, I mean, they're probably 0:05:23.320 --> 0:05:25.440 some of the most storied police officers in the country 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:28.640 when it comes to wrongful convictions in relation to homicides 0:05:28.920 --> 0:05:31.960 and Lewis Scarcella with Camill shows up at the scene 0:05:32.000 --> 0:05:35.039 at eleven fifty five. They are totally involved with this case. 0:05:35.279 --> 0:05:39.719 Scarcella and Camille are at the precinct with Rodriguez. Rodriguez 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:42.919 at around three o'clock in the morning or so actually 0:05:42.960 --> 0:05:47.080 makes a statement. Another witness, William Johnson, who later testifies 0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:49.680 that Nelson wasn't at the scene. He was an eyewitness 0:05:49.760 --> 0:05:52.440 arrested at the scene. He was interviewed, does not indicate 0:05:52.480 --> 0:05:55.440 anything about Nelson Cruz. So the first person to actually 0:05:55.560 --> 0:05:58.320 name Cruise is at Wardo Rodriguez. And then there was 0:05:58.360 --> 0:06:00.880 a third witness. His name is Andre Bellinger, who was 0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:03.279 interviewed at something around three forty five in the morning, 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:07.320 and he says Nelson as well. Nelson turns himself in 0:06:07.360 --> 0:06:10.520 on April third. He's barely seventeen years old. Mark Brooks 0:06:10.600 --> 0:06:13.840 runs the lineup. He is allegedly the lead investigator out 0:06:13.839 --> 0:06:16.640 of the seventy fifth because Stephen Camill is the lead 0:06:16.680 --> 0:06:20.040 investigator for Brooklyn North. And how you understand the politics 0:06:20.040 --> 0:06:23.599 between Brooklyn North and the local precinct, says one detective 0:06:23.680 --> 0:06:26.640 from Brooklyn North would work with a precinct detective. So 0:06:26.880 --> 0:06:30.760 Stephen Camill was the lead partner detective with Mark Brooks 0:06:30.760 --> 0:06:33.320 who was the detective from the seventy fifth precinct, and 0:06:33.440 --> 0:06:37.720 Lewis Scarcela was Stephen Camill's partner from Brooklyn North. You know, 0:06:37.800 --> 0:06:40.680 So what we have happened is a lineup that's conducted 0:06:41.120 --> 0:06:44.400 and Andre Bellinger is the only witness that comes in to 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:45.200 view the lineup. 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:48.560 So little does Nelson know he's going right into the 0:06:48.760 --> 0:06:51.680 eye of the storm. Here. You were living through this 0:06:51.920 --> 0:06:54.680 a tenth greater. I mean, can you take us back 0:06:54.680 --> 0:06:56.960 to what you were thinking and feeling at that time, 0:06:57.040 --> 0:06:59.159 starting on the third when you turned yourself in. 0:06:59.560 --> 0:06:59.720 Yes. 0:07:00.560 --> 0:07:02.960 So I go into the precinct and I'm sitting down 0:07:03.200 --> 0:07:05.599 just waiting for the detectives to go look for some 0:07:05.680 --> 0:07:08.680 fellers to the lineup. Scart Seller. He's on his desk 0:07:08.680 --> 0:07:11.560 with his feet picked up, smoking a cigar. I'll never 0:07:11.600 --> 0:07:14.520 forget this. He's smoking a cigar. And he asked me, Uh, 0:07:14.640 --> 0:07:17.320 you're not scared to be here? I said no, I 0:07:17.320 --> 0:07:19.679 wouldn't be here, but I committed this murder. He should 0:07:19.760 --> 0:07:23.120 have head said, all right, after they got the fillers, 0:07:23.120 --> 0:07:25.000 we went into the lineup. I got picked out of 0:07:25.040 --> 0:07:29.280 course by Andre Billinger. And my attorney's explained to me, listen, 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:31.080 don't say nothing to these detective The only thing that 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:33.000 you supposed to state of them is your name and address. 0:07:33.280 --> 0:07:35.160 So they kept me in the bullpen for a little while, 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:37.800 for a couple of hours, and they took me out 0:07:37.800 --> 0:07:39.960 the bullpen and then bring me right back into the 0:07:39.960 --> 0:07:42.320 lineup rung and they cuffed me into like the little 0:07:42.360 --> 0:07:45.600 rols inside of lineup rung and start Seller brings the 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:48.360 paper into the room and he's telling me, listen, we 0:07:48.400 --> 0:07:51.000 already know what happened. Just sign it and you will 0:07:51.040 --> 0:07:54.720 be leaving. So I tell Scott Seller, I'm not signing anything. 0:07:55.560 --> 0:07:57.560 He gets a little frustrated, So you got your meal, 0:07:57.640 --> 0:07:59.480 trying to play the gut cop. He's telling me, listen, 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:01.720 just sign it, then you'll be walking out. We already 0:08:01.760 --> 0:08:04.760 know what happened. I tell him again, I'm not signing anything. 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:08.160 Scart's teller get a little frustrated, crumble the paper and 0:08:08.200 --> 0:08:10.920 slaps me in the face with this again. He's telling me, 0:08:11.040 --> 0:08:13.080 you know, hostile, Just sign the paper you'll be And 0:08:13.160 --> 0:08:14.920 I'm like, I'm not signing anything. That left me in 0:08:14.920 --> 0:08:16.480 a room for like a high hour, they brings me 0:08:16.520 --> 0:08:18.920 back into the book pen, and about maybe like an 0:08:18.920 --> 0:08:21.000 hour after that, they put me into a van they 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:24.080 driving me to us Central Bookman. And later on, when 0:08:24.080 --> 0:08:27.000 I get my voluntary disclosure for him, I see that 0:08:27.040 --> 0:08:29.240 they put a DD five report in a statement that 0:08:29.280 --> 0:08:32.920 I made a spontaneous statement. The statement face signed to 0:08:32.920 --> 0:08:35.000 the fact that I got shot in my leg and 0:08:35.080 --> 0:08:37.520 I shot the guy and ran and I'm looking at 0:08:37.559 --> 0:08:39.800 I'm telling my attorney, I never said any of this 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:41.920 to these detectives. Number never said any of this. 0:08:42.600 --> 0:08:45.640 And the statement that he attributes to Nelson is the 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:49.040 same type of language that's in all of these Scarcella 0:08:49.120 --> 0:08:53.479 Incamilal cases. When you have these quote unquote confessions. 0:08:53.720 --> 0:08:55.040 And by the way, I have to say this before 0:08:55.040 --> 0:08:56.920 I get back to Justin. It sounds to me like 0:08:57.000 --> 0:09:00.000 you did everything right. You did what we always add 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:02.520 people to do on the show, don't talk. You didn't 0:09:02.520 --> 0:09:04.880 sign a piece of paper, although it sounded like a 0:09:04.880 --> 0:09:07.360 pretty good offer, like to a kid in tenth grade. 0:09:07.440 --> 0:09:11.720 So you did everything right and the system failed you anyway, Justin, 0:09:11.760 --> 0:09:15.000 do you have a theory on how this Rodriguez character 0:09:15.160 --> 0:09:18.880 could have possibly convinced the detectives that. I mean, my 0:09:18.960 --> 0:09:20.960 mind goes to a pretty dark place here. But why 0:09:20.960 --> 0:09:21.920 did he finger Nelson? 0:09:22.200 --> 0:09:24.960 The only theory I have is Rodriguez knew who Nelson 0:09:25.200 --> 0:09:27.920 was and he just pinned it on somebody that maybe 0:09:27.960 --> 0:09:30.800 looked more like him than anybody else did. But one 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:34.040 other thing about Edward or Rodriguez, the seventy fifth was 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:37.200 very familiar with him. He had multiple arrests from the 0:09:37.200 --> 0:09:40.400 seventy fifth robbery I believe in nineteen ninety and then 0:09:40.440 --> 0:09:43.520 a drug conviction in ninety five. He was on parole 0:09:43.679 --> 0:09:45.760 at the time of this murder for that drug conviction 0:09:45.840 --> 0:09:46.560 from ninety five. 0:09:47.160 --> 0:09:50.040 They knew him, and they might have found him to 0:09:50.040 --> 0:09:53.160 be useful, and in this case, they didn't want to 0:09:53.240 --> 0:09:55.839 put him in jail. I mean, that's clear because they 0:09:55.840 --> 0:09:58.440 could have. They should have. It was their responsibility to 0:09:58.480 --> 0:10:00.480 do so, and instead they decided I had to pin 0:10:00.559 --> 0:10:03.280 it on an innocent man named Nelson Cruz, which was 0:10:03.360 --> 0:10:05.360 standard operating procedure for them at that time. 0:10:05.400 --> 0:10:08.959 Anyway, the seventy fifth, as Nelson said, is notorious. The 0:10:09.080 --> 0:10:11.360 quote from Michael Race when he was the head of 0:10:11.400 --> 0:10:14.360 that squad from the early eighties into the early nineties, 0:10:14.480 --> 0:10:17.599 he was involved with seven hundred and fifty homicide investigations 0:10:17.800 --> 0:10:21.600 and only one time did they actually follow the rules. 0:10:21.840 --> 0:10:25.040 So Rodriguez tells them I didn't do it, and they 0:10:25.040 --> 0:10:28.080 bring Andre Bellinger in. He gives them the information that 0:10:28.080 --> 0:10:29.880 they want to hear. And what we know about Andre 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:33.080 Bellinger is, in nineteen eighty one, Andre Bellinger was charged 0:10:33.120 --> 0:10:35.199 with murder and he only does a one and a 0:10:35.240 --> 0:10:38.640 half to three. At the time of Nelson's arrest, Andre 0:10:38.760 --> 0:10:41.440 Bellinger was working with the PAAL, which is the Police 0:10:41.440 --> 0:10:44.000 Athletic League, and he lived only two blocks away from 0:10:44.000 --> 0:10:47.080 the seventy fifth Precinct. And what we know from a 0:10:47.120 --> 0:10:50.920 hearing what Detective Brooks testifies to is right before the 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:54.440 lineup Scarcell and Camille, they're alone with Andre Bellinger. 0:10:55.000 --> 0:10:57.520 So now we have to get to the trial. A 0:10:57.640 --> 0:11:02.240 New York City police officer that they had not seen 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:05.200 Nelson Cruz at the scene. I'm going to read the 0:11:05.280 --> 0:11:09.200 testimony here. Nelson, your lawyer walked the officer through what happened. 0:11:09.240 --> 0:11:11.800 He said, did you see the muzzle flashes of the gun? 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:15.280 He answers, I saw muzzle flashes, and you jumped out 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:18.280 of the car almost immediately upon hearing the shots. Correct, 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:22.520 and the officer says, correct, your gun drawn. Officer says, yes. 0:11:22.640 --> 0:11:24.760 Did you ever see Nelson Cruz on the scene. 0:11:25.240 --> 0:11:25.320 No? 0:11:25.880 --> 0:11:28.240 Did you ever see Nelson Cruz with a nine millimeter 0:11:28.320 --> 0:11:32.239 handgun in his hand? No, you did see Eduardo Rodriguez 0:11:32.240 --> 0:11:35.240 with a nine millimeter handgun in his hand. Correct. Yes, 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:37.560 As a matter of fact, you were pointing your nine 0:11:37.559 --> 0:11:41.920 milimeter at him. Correct. Officer replies correct, because he had 0:11:41.920 --> 0:11:45.160 a gun in his hand. Correct. Correct, And you were 0:11:45.240 --> 0:11:47.640 screaming at the top of your lungs that drop the gun, 0:11:47.720 --> 0:11:52.400 drop the gun. Correct. Officer replies correct. Now, that is 0:11:52.520 --> 0:11:55.840 some of the most powerful testimony I have ever heard, 0:11:56.080 --> 0:11:59.640 and all of it serves to prove that you could 0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:01.880 not did not commit this crime. 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:05.600 You know, as you just read the testimony, I remember 0:12:05.640 --> 0:12:08.440 this like yesterday, and I'm still confused, Jason. The only 0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:12.080 wines against me was not like Labo Rodriguez at Matriu. 0:12:12.160 --> 0:12:16.440 They used Andre Billinger. And when you ask Andre Billinger 0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:18.720 to space, he was there from the beginning to the 0:12:18.800 --> 0:12:21.719 n Did you see police on the scene, he states, no, 0:12:22.440 --> 0:12:24.760 We ask him, did you see anybody get arrested on 0:12:24.800 --> 0:12:28.480 the crown saying he states no, so and my mom 0:12:28.600 --> 0:12:30.439 is like what crowd. 0:12:30.240 --> 0:12:33.119 Saying was this guy in? How could you be confused 0:12:33.160 --> 0:12:35.120 as to whether or not there were police officers? He 0:12:35.120 --> 0:12:37.560 wasn't confused. He said there weren't, but there were. This 0:12:37.679 --> 0:12:39.200 is not a thing you could mix up, like the 0:12:39.240 --> 0:12:41.200 color of the shirt the guy was wearing. You know. 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:44.280 Bellinger His story is that Nelson gets into it with 0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:47.560 a guy named Shaq, and that Nelson drives his car, 0:12:47.720 --> 0:12:50.800 comes back around and then gets into it with vi Era. 0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:54.200 Bellinger says that Nelson accused Vieira of giving Shack a gun, 0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:58.160 that Nelson just kills Vieira. That's basically Bellinger's story. No 0:12:58.200 --> 0:13:02.200 one else says that no one. And what's interesting is 0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:04.959 Shack actually came to testify in twenty nineteen and he 0:13:05.000 --> 0:13:07.120 said he never had a fight with Nelson Cruz. So 0:13:07.200 --> 0:13:09.240 that was a made up story. And what corroborates what 0:13:09.320 --> 0:13:12.200 Shaq says is when Andre Bellinger speaks to the conviction 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:14.920 Review Unit in twenty fifteen, says he says he can't 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:17.600 even remember the incident with Shaq, which is the whole 0:13:17.679 --> 0:13:21.760 basis of this altercation. This case is a joke. 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:26.760 Okay. Bellinger was also the least credible witness, not just 0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:30.840 because of his background, but also because Bellinger testified that 0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:34.280 the police told him who to identify. And Bellinger also 0:13:34.360 --> 0:13:36.880 testified that he'd only been able to identify the murder 0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:39.640 weapon as a nine millimeter gun because the police had 0:13:39.640 --> 0:13:41.120 told him that's what it was. 0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:45.400 They didn't know the gun that Rodriguez was arrested with 0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:48.520 was the murder weapon until just before Nelson's trial. And 0:13:48.559 --> 0:13:51.679 this is a common theme in policing from the NYPD 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:56.480 is they don't do any forensic investigation. Okay, so the 0:13:56.520 --> 0:13:59.880 ballistics from the nine millimeter that Rodriguez has caught with 0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:02.880 match the shellcases that murdered Trevor Vieira. 0:14:03.200 --> 0:14:06.400 When the police officer testify, it states that he didn't 0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:08.160 see me at all. He didn't send me with no gun, 0:14:08.200 --> 0:14:10.520 he stated, who he's see with the gun? I'm like, 0:14:10.640 --> 0:14:13.720 I'm gonna go home. And at the end when the 0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:16.720 tribute came back with the guilty murder, just couldn't believe 0:14:16.720 --> 0:14:20.480 it and just sent us twenty fe of life. You 0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:23.600 got the guy with the smoking gun. All five shell 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:26.960 cases match that gun. I still can't believe it. 0:14:35.400 --> 0:14:38.560 This episode is brought to you by Stand Together. Stand 0:14:38.560 --> 0:14:42.320 Together is a philanthropic community dedicated to helping people improve 0:14:42.360 --> 0:14:45.320 their lives. For more than twenty years, Stand Together and 0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:47.720 its partners have been on the front lines of criminal 0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:52.240 justice reform. By empowering people to take action, supporting nonprofits, 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:56.040 and working with businesses, Stand Together tackles the root causes 0:14:56.080 --> 0:14:58.960 of problems in our communities and empowers those closest to 0:14:59.000 --> 0:15:03.960 the problems to drive solutions like reducing unjust prison sentences 0:15:03.960 --> 0:15:07.400 through the First Step Act, empowering community based programs and 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:10.960 help people re enter society, and now working to bridge 0:15:11.000 --> 0:15:14.760 divides in our communities. To learn how you may get involved, 0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:21.680 visit standtogether dot org slash conviction. This episode is underwritten 0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:25.720 by the AIG pro Bono Program. AIG is a leading 0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:29.120 global insurance company, and for over a decade, the AIG 0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:32.560 pro Bono Program has provided thousands of hours of free 0:15:32.640 --> 0:15:37.120 legal services and other support to nonprofit organizations and individuals 0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:41.040 most in need. More recently, the program added criminal and 0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:44.360 social justice reform as a key pillar of its mission. 0:15:50.920 --> 0:15:55.880 Nelson didn't exactly take this lying down. Instead, you got 0:15:55.920 --> 0:15:58.920 busy behind bars, right, I mean, tell us about the 0:15:58.960 --> 0:15:59.840 actual innocence. 0:16:00.560 --> 0:16:02.640 Like I said, I was sentenced to twenty five years 0:16:02.680 --> 0:16:06.360 to life. I'd come up state, didn't know anything about 0:16:06.360 --> 0:16:10.160 the law, and I'm just sitting a little library, acting 0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:12.440 for help and you know, reading a lot of the 0:16:12.520 --> 0:16:16.840 statues and trying to familiarize myself. So I ran across 0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:18.640 you know a lot of good guys and they teaching 0:16:18.640 --> 0:16:21.000 me about the laws. And at the same time, I'm 0:16:21.000 --> 0:16:24.760 trying to gather my evidence to submit my affidavits to 0:16:25.560 --> 0:16:28.640 the Athelet Division. At the time, my director, Pill was pendent. 0:16:29.040 --> 0:16:31.840 But I couldn't because you know, my family, we're not rich. 0:16:32.080 --> 0:16:33.920 We're not rich, we we don't got money like that 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:37.040 to be hiring private investigator. So I had my mother. 0:16:37.360 --> 0:16:40.240 She was, you know, going into these dangerous projects, looking 0:16:40.240 --> 0:16:42.240 for my friends, looking for people that was at the 0:16:42.280 --> 0:16:45.640 crime scene that night. And with the help with my mother, 0:16:45.680 --> 0:16:47.680 I was getting phone numbers, and with the phone numbers, 0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:51.120 I was contacting people's gathering evidence. I had got about 0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:53.400 maybe two, like two or three AFID Davis at first, 0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:55.640 and then my brother laid on we had higher a 0:16:55.680 --> 0:17:00.000 private investigator to locate these witnesses and get affidavis from them. 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:02.880 And as I'm submitting these motions to the court. I'm 0:17:02.880 --> 0:17:05.840 getting shot down. I'm losing hope, but I'm still fighting 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:07.960 because I said, listen, something one Day's friend got to 0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:10.000 give here. I know I ain't commit this firm and 0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:11.760 to the course of the years me being in prison, 0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:14.880 I'm hearing of a guy named Bush, which is Derek Hamilton. 0:17:15.200 --> 0:17:16.800 I don't know if he's familiar with him. He's a 0:17:16.880 --> 0:17:19.240 jail house William and I'm like, wow, I gotta meet 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:21.120 this guy because i heard he's a beast with the lord. 0:17:21.240 --> 0:17:23.240 So I end up meeting Derek Hamilton in the law 0:17:23.320 --> 0:17:27.160 library and we exchanged information D five and stuff like that, 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:30.280 and I'm explaining to him about my case. He reviewed 0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:33.160 my d D five. He sees that scot seller name 0:17:33.200 --> 0:17:35.600 is in the bottom and he's like, wow, this guy's 0:17:35.640 --> 0:17:37.760 in my case. He loud on me on my case 0:17:37.920 --> 0:17:41.680 and he's fighting actual editing the same thing. So we 0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:44.840 leave Shawongong. We end up in Auburn. When we go 0:17:44.880 --> 0:17:47.800 to Auburn Correction facility again, I'm in Laura live Burn 0:17:48.000 --> 0:17:50.920 and I meet Shabaka. Shabaka's there a guy by the 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:54.679 name of Danny Ringkong. There also fighting his Edizen and 0:17:54.960 --> 0:17:57.399 Eric ended up a rising. That's when he came up 0:17:57.440 --> 0:18:00.800 with the name actual Edison Team AI team. And what 0:18:00.840 --> 0:18:02.840 we was doing was like one day we will work 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:05.120 on my case, the next day we will work on 0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:07.520 Derek case. Like that, We'll take turns on each other 0:18:07.640 --> 0:18:10.240 case and Derek telling me what the dude right over here, 0:18:10.359 --> 0:18:12.199 right over here, do this, do that? And that's the 0:18:12.200 --> 0:18:13.679 same thing that See telling me what to do. I'm 0:18:13.760 --> 0:18:17.000 learning And basically what I was doing was lawyer shopping. 0:18:17.240 --> 0:18:19.440 I'm somem inning a big package with all my evidence 0:18:19.480 --> 0:18:22.200 with my affid Davis my DD five crime scene sketches 0:18:22.200 --> 0:18:25.320 that I drew trying to get some help from the outside. 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:28.199 I wrote every actually interesting project. I wrote governors, I 0:18:28.200 --> 0:18:31.040 wrote the President, I wrote everywhere Jason, anyway you can 0:18:31.119 --> 0:18:33.760 think of, I wrote. And at this time Derek ended 0:18:33.840 --> 0:18:38.359 up going home in twenty eleven. So Derek always told me, listen, 0:18:38.480 --> 0:18:40.600 I'm not gonna forget about you. Once I'm making home, 0:18:40.880 --> 0:18:41.280 I'm there. 0:18:41.320 --> 0:18:41.720 I got you. 0:18:41.760 --> 0:18:43.760 I'm not gonna forget. And I don't heard that so 0:18:43.840 --> 0:18:46.080 many times Jason being in here that you know, guys 0:18:46.119 --> 0:18:47.760 tell you listen, they're gonna go home do this, and 0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:50.840 guys just go home and live their life. So I'm like, wow, now, 0:18:51.359 --> 0:18:52.959 I hope Deyk don't do this to me, you know. 0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:57.359 And Derek went home and kept his word. Jason, he 0:18:57.560 --> 0:19:01.480 put Justin on my case and from it we gather 0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:04.160 more evidence and I'm well not today. 0:19:04.800 --> 0:19:08.240 Derek has been on the show, Danny ringcon Shabaka Shakur. 0:19:08.480 --> 0:19:10.800 I mean, all these people are people I know well, 0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:15.040 and I've talked often about the awesome power that you 0:19:15.119 --> 0:19:18.480 guys collectively manifested, all of whom had been through the 0:19:18.520 --> 0:19:21.359 same experience at the hands of the same people, and 0:19:21.440 --> 0:19:24.399 setting up basically a law firm inside the walls of 0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:27.639 the prison. You know, call it whatever you want, Shakura, Cruz, 0:19:27.720 --> 0:19:30.400 Hamilton and ring Khon. I could see it on a letterhead, 0:19:30.440 --> 0:19:32.760 and hopefully someday you guys will actually form a law 0:19:32.800 --> 0:19:35.200 firm on the outside, because I think you guys would 0:19:35.240 --> 0:19:39.000 be incredible together. Derek, when he was on Ronful Conviction, 0:19:39.080 --> 0:19:41.040 I was like, oh my god, this is like interviewing 0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:43.480 a yeah law professor. I mean, this guy is on 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:45.560 fire so knowledgeable. 0:19:45.920 --> 0:19:48.880 That is my mentor. By the way, Derek, we call 0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:51.720 him Mom Google Legal give him a fact and he'll 0:19:51.760 --> 0:19:52.440 give you a case. 0:19:52.880 --> 0:19:55.439 And Nelson, you should know it's Derek. But it's not 0:19:55.760 --> 0:19:58.879 just Derek. I mean, all of us are just super 0:19:58.880 --> 0:20:02.560 committed to you get home and get on with your life. 0:20:02.720 --> 0:20:06.600 So Nelson litigated his case, he filed the emotion of vacant, 0:20:06.680 --> 0:20:11.040 he filed an appeal, and got shot down at every 0:20:11.080 --> 0:20:14.159 turn over the past twenty years. And so the hearing 0:20:14.240 --> 0:20:18.040 that we were finally granted in twenty nineteen, and the 0:20:18.080 --> 0:20:21.640 evidence that we presented was it was quite astounding. I mean, obviously, 0:20:21.680 --> 0:20:24.240 we called Officer Paietti and again who said that he 0:20:24.280 --> 0:20:26.840 did not see Nelson Cruz at the scene before, after, 0:20:26.960 --> 0:20:29.840 or during the crime. We called William Harden, who was 0:20:29.920 --> 0:20:33.880 across the street watched the ponytailed man kill his friend. 0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:37.000 He knew Trevor Vieira and did not see Nelson Cruz there. 0:20:37.040 --> 0:20:39.199 He saw the police pull up at the scene. And 0:20:39.240 --> 0:20:41.560 then we called William Johnson, who was the other man 0:20:41.600 --> 0:20:44.119 that was arrested at the scene, and he testified that 0:20:44.119 --> 0:20:46.280