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Speaker 1: We originally released our coverage of Nelson Cruz on March seventeenth,

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty one. Since then, there have been some remarkable developments,

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Speaker 1: and we're re releasing this episode stitching in a new

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Speaker 1: interview with the man himself. Mister Nelson Cruz. East New

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Speaker 1: York is a notoriously tough Brooklyn neighborhood. In the seventies, eighties,

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Speaker 1: and nineties, it had an equally corrupt local precinct, the

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Speaker 1: seven to five or seventy fifth Precinct, home to many

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Speaker 1: of the wrongful convictions of notorious and YPD detectives Luis

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Speaker 1: Carcela and Stephen Camille. On March twenty eighth, nineteen ninety eight,

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Speaker 1: Nelson Cruz was out in the neighborhood with some friends

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Speaker 1: celebrating his seventeenth birthday over Chinese food when they heard

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Speaker 1: gunshots close by, so close, in fact, that they saw

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Speaker 1: the police swoop in immediately to get the situation under control.

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Speaker 1: A police officer had seen the actual muscle flash of

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Speaker 1: the gun in Eduardo Rodriguez's hand. Trevor Vieira, a man

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Speaker 1: in his mid twentieth known for stickups, was lying dead

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Speaker 1: in the street. Rodriguez was brought in for questioning, where

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Speaker 1: Scarcela and Camille turned what should have been an open

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Speaker 1: and shutcase into another horrific wrongful conviction with the false

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Speaker 1: testimony of a man who didn't even know police were

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Speaker 1: unseen to arrest Rodriguez, and in spite of the testimony

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Speaker 1: of that uniform police officer stating that Nelson Cruz was

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Speaker 1: definitely not the shooter, Nelson was convicted and sentenced to

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Speaker 1: twenty five years to life. And if matters couldn't get

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Speaker 1: any worse, despite a mountain of new exculpatory evidence, the

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Speaker 1: judge who oversaw his most recent appeal suffers now from

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Speaker 1: early onset Alzheimer's, which has impaired her ability to follow

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Speaker 1: the case and set Nelson free. This is Wrongful Conviction

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Speaker 1: with Jason Flopp. Hello, This is a prepaid collect call

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Speaker 1: from an inmate at New York State Department of Corrections

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Speaker 1: and Community Supervision.

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Speaker 2: This call is subject to recording and monitoring. To accept charges,

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Speaker 2: press one to refuse charges, Press two.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for using securis. You may start the conversation now.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm That's me.

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Speaker 1: I'm your host today. We have a deeply, deeply troubling

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Speaker 1: situation to talk to you about. Today. We're on the

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Speaker 1: phone with Nelson Cruz, an innocent man who's been in

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Speaker 1: prison for a twenty two years now in New York State,

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Speaker 1: and I'm going to introduce now to you an attorney.

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Speaker 1: You have a tremendous amount of respect for who I'm

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Speaker 1: proud to work with on a day to day basis

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Speaker 1: on various cases, including this one. Justin bonus, Welcome to

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Speaker 1: wrongful Conviction.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, Jason. How are you?

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Speaker 1: I'm all right. Thanks, I'm glad to be here with you,

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Speaker 1: and most of all, I'm glad to be here with

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Speaker 1: the man of the hour, Nelson Cruz. Nelson, I'm sorry

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Speaker 1: you have to be here under these circumstances, but I'm

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Speaker 1: really glad you're here to tell your story. So welcome

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Speaker 1: to wronfuel conviction.

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Speaker 3: Good morning, Jason.

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Speaker 1: And which prison are you in now?

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Speaker 3: What Burn Correction? The facility up state in New York.

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Speaker 1: Can you take us back to that time.

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Speaker 3: I was in tenth grade at the time. It was

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Speaker 3: a nice night in March twenty eighth, nineteen ninety eight,

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Speaker 3: the day before my birthday. Me and like three of

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Speaker 3: my friends. We walked around the corner to the Chinese

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Speaker 3: restaurant to purchase some food, and me and my friends was,

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Speaker 3: you know, laughing and joking like we usually do. We

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Speaker 3: stepped outside and shot the fire down the block on

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Speaker 3: braffing and picking, and when I looked, I've seen a

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Speaker 3: police officer car that pulled up immediately and was getting

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Speaker 3: the area under control, and I've seen that they had

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Speaker 3: a Spanish guy on the floor and there was arresting

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Speaker 3: the guy. However, about four in the morning, Homicide contacted

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Speaker 3: my mom's told my mother they wanted to interview me

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Speaker 3: for the murder. And I was like, how can it be.

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Speaker 3: I don't have nothing to do with the situation. So

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Speaker 3: my big weather sid we're going to get an attorney.

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Speaker 3: We're going to go down to the priest. Don't go

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Speaker 3: down there by yourself, because you know, the semi fifth

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Speaker 3: prison is dirty. I said, fine, And on April third,

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Speaker 3: about attorney went to the prison with the attorney and

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Speaker 3: went to a lineup and I've never seen the scrief again.

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Speaker 1: Justin I want to turn to you because this case

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Speaker 1: is the definition of an open and shut case. It

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Speaker 1: should have never even been anywhere near Nelson or his

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Speaker 1: family because they knew from day one exactly who did it.

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Speaker 1: Can you explain what I'm talking about here?

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Speaker 2: This murder happens March twenty eighth, nineteen ninety eight, at

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Speaker 2: eleven fifteen at the corner of Bradford and Picking. Two

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Speaker 2: cops in a patrol car. Officer William Pietti actually watches

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Speaker 2: the man with the ponytail, who we later find out

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Speaker 2: is at Wardo Rodriguez, firing the gun, sees the muzzle

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Speaker 2: flare towards Bradford and Picking, which is where the deceased

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Speaker 2: Trevor Vieira was found. Pietti actually arrests at Wardo Rodriguez,

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Speaker 2: tells him to drop the gun, and Officer Palmery chases

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Speaker 2: a black man. I guess who runs away. These are

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Speaker 2: what the two cops say at one thirty one five

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Speaker 2: in the morning when they're interviewed by none other than

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Speaker 2: Detective Lewis Scarcela and Detective Steven Kimmel. And just to

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Speaker 2: tell you who those men are, I mean, they're probably

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Speaker 2: some of the most storied police officers in the country

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Speaker 2: when it comes to wrongful convictions in relation to homicides

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Speaker 2: and Lewis Scarcella with Camill shows up at the scene

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Speaker 2: at eleven fifty five. They are totally involved with this case.

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Speaker 2: Scarcella and Camille are at the precinct with Rodriguez. Rodriguez

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Speaker 2: at around three o'clock in the morning or so actually

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Speaker 2: makes a statement. Another witness, William Johnson, who later testifies

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Speaker 2: that Nelson wasn't at the scene. He was an eyewitness

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Speaker 2: arrested at the scene. He was interviewed, does not indicate

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Speaker 2: anything about Nelson Cruz. So the first person to actually

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Speaker 2: name Cruise is at Wardo Rodriguez. And then there was

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Speaker 2: a third witness. His name is Andre Bellinger, who was

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Speaker 2: interviewed at something around three forty five in the morning,

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Speaker 2: and he says Nelson as well. Nelson turns himself in

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Speaker 2: on April third. He's barely seventeen years old. Mark Brooks

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Speaker 2: runs the lineup. He is allegedly the lead investigator out

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Speaker 2: of the seventy fifth because Stephen Camill is the lead

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Speaker 2: investigator for Brooklyn North. And how you understand the politics

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Speaker 2: between Brooklyn North and the local precinct, says one detective

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Speaker 2: from Brooklyn North would work with a precinct detective. So

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Speaker 2: Stephen Camill was the lead partner detective with Mark Brooks

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Speaker 2: who was the detective from the seventy fifth precinct, and

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Speaker 2: Lewis Scarcela was Stephen Camill's partner from Brooklyn North. You know,

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Speaker 2: So what we have happened is a lineup that's conducted

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Speaker 2: and Andre Bellinger is the only witness that comes in to

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Speaker 2: view the lineup.

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Speaker 1: So little does Nelson know he's going right into the

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Speaker 1: eye of the storm. Here. You were living through this

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Speaker 1: a tenth greater. I mean, can you take us back

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Speaker 1: to what you were thinking and feeling at that time,

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Speaker 1: starting on the third when you turned yourself in.

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Speaker 4: Yes.

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Speaker 3: So I go into the precinct and I'm sitting down

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Speaker 3: just waiting for the detectives to go look for some

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Speaker 3: fellers to the lineup. Scart Seller. He's on his desk

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Speaker 3: with his feet picked up, smoking a cigar. I'll never

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Speaker 3: forget this. He's smoking a cigar. And he asked me, Uh,

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Speaker 3: you're not scared to be here? I said no, I

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Speaker 3: wouldn't be here, but I committed this murder. He should

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Speaker 3: have head said, all right, after they got the fillers,

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Speaker 3: we went into the lineup. I got picked out of

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Speaker 3: course by Andre Billinger. And my attorney's explained to me, listen,

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Speaker 3: don't say nothing to these detective The only thing that

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Speaker 3: you supposed to state of them is your name and address.

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Speaker 3: So they kept me in the bullpen for a little while,

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Speaker 3: for a couple of hours, and they took me out

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Speaker 3: the bullpen and then bring me right back into the

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Speaker 3: lineup rung and they cuffed me into like the little

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Speaker 3: rols inside of lineup rung and start Seller brings the

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Speaker 3: paper into the room and he's telling me, listen, we

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Speaker 3: already know what happened. Just sign it and you will

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Speaker 3: be leaving. So I tell Scott Seller, I'm not signing anything.

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Speaker 3: He gets a little frustrated, So you got your meal,

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Speaker 3: trying to play the gut cop. He's telling me, listen,

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Speaker 3: just sign it, then you'll be walking out. We already

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Speaker 3: know what happened. I tell him again, I'm not signing anything.

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Speaker 3: Scart's teller get a little frustrated, crumble the paper and

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Speaker 3: slaps me in the face with this again. He's telling me,

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Speaker 3: you know, hostile, Just sign the paper you'll be And

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Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm not signing anything. That left me in

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Speaker 3: a room for like a high hour, they brings me

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Speaker 3: back into the book pen, and about maybe like an

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Speaker 3: hour after that, they put me into a van they

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Speaker 3: driving me to us Central Bookman. And later on, when

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Speaker 3: I get my voluntary disclosure for him, I see that

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Speaker 3: they put a DD five report in a statement that

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Speaker 3: I made a spontaneous statement. The statement face signed to

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Speaker 3: the fact that I got shot in my leg and

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Speaker 3: I shot the guy and ran and I'm looking at

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Speaker 3: I'm telling my attorney, I never said any of this

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Speaker 3: to these detectives. Number never said any of this.

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Speaker 2: And the statement that he attributes to Nelson is the

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Speaker 2: same type of language that's in all of these Scarcella

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Speaker 2: Incamilal cases. When you have these quote unquote confessions.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, I have to say this before

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Speaker 1: I get back to Justin. It sounds to me like

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Speaker 1: you did everything right. You did what we always add

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Speaker 1: people to do on the show, don't talk. You didn't

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Speaker 1: sign a piece of paper, although it sounded like a

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Speaker 1: pretty good offer, like to a kid in tenth grade.

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Speaker 1: So you did everything right and the system failed you anyway, Justin,

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Speaker 1: do you have a theory on how this Rodriguez character

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Speaker 1: could have possibly convinced the detectives that. I mean, my

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Speaker 1: mind goes to a pretty dark place here. But why

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Speaker 1: did he finger Nelson?

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Speaker 2: The only theory I have is Rodriguez knew who Nelson

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Speaker 2: was and he just pinned it on somebody that maybe

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Speaker 2: looked more like him than anybody else did. But one

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Speaker 2: other thing about Edward or Rodriguez, the seventy fifth was

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Speaker 2: very familiar with him. He had multiple arrests from the

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Speaker 2: seventy fifth robbery I believe in nineteen ninety and then

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Speaker 2: a drug conviction in ninety five. He was on parole

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Speaker 2: at the time of this murder for that drug conviction

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Speaker 2: from ninety five.

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Speaker 1: They knew him, and they might have found him to

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Speaker 1: be useful, and in this case, they didn't want to

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Speaker 1: put him in jail. I mean, that's clear because they

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Speaker 1: could have. They should have. It was their responsibility to

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Speaker 1: do so, and instead they decided I had to pin

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Speaker 1: it on an innocent man named Nelson Cruz, which was

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Speaker 1: standard operating procedure for them at that time.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, the seventy fifth, as Nelson said, is notorious. The

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Speaker 2: quote from Michael Race when he was the head of

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Speaker 2: that squad from the early eighties into the early nineties,

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Speaker 2: he was involved with seven hundred and fifty homicide investigations

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Speaker 2: and only one time did they actually follow the rules.

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Speaker 2: So Rodriguez tells them I didn't do it, and they

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Speaker 2: bring Andre Bellinger in. He gives them the information that

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Speaker 2: they want to hear. And what we know about Andre

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Speaker 2: Bellinger is, in nineteen eighty one, Andre Bellinger was charged

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Speaker 2: with murder and he only does a one and a

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Speaker 2: half to three. At the time of Nelson's arrest, Andre

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Speaker 2: Bellinger was working with the PAAL, which is the Police

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Speaker 2: Athletic League, and he lived only two blocks away from

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Speaker 2: the seventy fifth Precinct. And what we know from a

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Speaker 2: hearing what Detective Brooks testifies to is right before the

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Speaker 2: lineup Scarcell and Camille, they're alone with Andre Bellinger.

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Speaker 1: So now we have to get to the trial. A

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Speaker 1: New York City police officer that they had not seen

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Speaker 1: Nelson Cruz at the scene. I'm going to read the

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Speaker 1: testimony here. Nelson, your lawyer walked the officer through what happened.

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Speaker 1: He said, did you see the muzzle flashes of the gun?

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Speaker 1: He answers, I saw muzzle flashes, and you jumped out

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Speaker 1: of the car almost immediately upon hearing the shots. Correct,

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Speaker 1: and the officer says, correct, your gun drawn. Officer says, yes.

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Speaker 1: Did you ever see Nelson Cruz on the scene.

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 1: Did you ever see Nelson Cruz with a nine millimeter

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Speaker 1: handgun in his hand? No, you did see Eduardo Rodriguez

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Speaker 1: with a nine millimeter handgun in his hand. Correct. Yes,

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Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, you were pointing your nine

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Speaker 1: milimeter at him. Correct. Officer replies correct, because he had

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Speaker 1: a gun in his hand. Correct. Correct, And you were

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Speaker 1: screaming at the top of your lungs that drop the gun,

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Speaker 1: drop the gun. Correct. Officer replies correct. Now, that is

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Speaker 1: some of the most powerful testimony I have ever heard,

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Speaker 1: and all of it serves to prove that you could

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Speaker 1: not did not commit this crime.

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Speaker 3: You know, as you just read the testimony, I remember

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Speaker 3: this like yesterday, and I'm still confused, Jason. The only

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Speaker 3: wines against me was not like Labo Rodriguez at Matriu.

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Speaker 3: They used Andre Billinger. And when you ask Andre Billinger

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Speaker 3: to space, he was there from the beginning to the

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Speaker 3: n Did you see police on the scene, he states, no,

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Speaker 3: We ask him, did you see anybody get arrested on

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Speaker 3: the crown saying he states no, so and my mom

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Speaker 3: is like what crowd.

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Speaker 1: Saying was this guy in? How could you be confused

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Speaker 1: as to whether or not there were police officers? He

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Speaker 1: wasn't confused. He said there weren't, but there were. This

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Speaker 1: is not a thing you could mix up, like the

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Speaker 1: color of the shirt the guy was wearing. You know.

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Speaker 2: Bellinger His story is that Nelson gets into it with

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Speaker 2: a guy named Shaq, and that Nelson drives his car,

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Speaker 2: comes back around and then gets into it with vi Era.

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Speaker 2: Bellinger says that Nelson accused Vieira of giving Shack a gun,

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Speaker 2: that Nelson just kills Vieira. That's basically Bellinger's story. No

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Speaker 2: one else says that no one. And what's interesting is

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Speaker 2: Shack actually came to testify in twenty nineteen and he

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Speaker 2: said he never had a fight with Nelson Cruz. So

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Speaker 2: that was a made up story. And what corroborates what

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Speaker 2: Shaq says is when Andre Bellinger speaks to the conviction

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Speaker 2: Review Unit in twenty fifteen, says he says he can't

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Speaker 2: even remember the incident with Shaq, which is the whole

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Speaker 2: basis of this altercation. This case is a joke.

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Speaker 1: Okay. Bellinger was also the least credible witness, not just

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Speaker 1: because of his background, but also because Bellinger testified that

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Speaker 1: the police told him who to identify. And Bellinger also

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Speaker 1: testified that he'd only been able to identify the murder

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Speaker 1: weapon as a nine millimeter gun because the police had

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Speaker 1: told him that's what it was.

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Speaker 2: They didn't know the gun that Rodriguez was arrested with

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Speaker 2: was the murder weapon until just before Nelson's trial. And

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Speaker 2: this is a common theme in policing from the NYPD

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Speaker 2: is they don't do any forensic investigation. Okay, so the

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Speaker 2: ballistics from the nine millimeter that Rodriguez has caught with

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Speaker 2: match the shellcases that murdered Trevor Vieira.

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Speaker 3: When the police officer testify, it states that he didn't

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Speaker 3: see me at all. He didn't send me with no gun,

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Speaker 3: he stated, who he's see with the gun? I'm like,

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna go home. And at the end when the

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Speaker 3: tribute came back with the guilty murder, just couldn't believe

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Speaker 3: it and just sent us twenty fe of life. You

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Speaker 3: got the guy with the smoking gun. All five shell

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Speaker 3: cases match that gun. I still can't believe it.

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Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by Stand Together. Stand

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Speaker 1: Together is a philanthropic community dedicated to helping people improve

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Speaker 1: their lives. For more than twenty years, Stand Together and

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Speaker 1: its partners have been on the front lines of criminal

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Speaker 1: justice reform. By empowering people to take action, supporting nonprofits,

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Speaker 1: of problems in our communities and empowers those closest to

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Speaker 1: the problems to drive solutions like reducing unjust prison sentences

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Speaker 1: through the First Step Act, empowering community based programs and

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Speaker 1: help people re enter society, and now working to bridge

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Speaker 1: divides in our communities. To learn how you may get involved,

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Speaker 1: visit standtogether dot org slash conviction. This episode is underwritten

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Speaker 1: by the AIG pro Bono Program. AIG is a leading

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Speaker 1: global insurance company, and for over a decade, the AIG

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Speaker 1: pro Bono Program has provided thousands of hours of free

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Speaker 1: legal services and other support to nonprofit organizations and individuals

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Speaker 1: most in need. More recently, the program added criminal and

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Speaker 1: social justice reform as a key pillar of its mission.

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Speaker 1: Nelson didn't exactly take this lying down. Instead, you got

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Speaker 1: busy behind bars, right, I mean, tell us about the

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Speaker 1: actual innocence.

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Speaker 3: Like I said, I was sentenced to twenty five years

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Speaker 3: to life. I'd come up state, didn't know anything about

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Speaker 3: the law, and I'm just sitting a little library, acting

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Speaker 3: for help and you know, reading a lot of the

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Speaker 3: statues and trying to familiarize myself. So I ran across

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Speaker 3: you know a lot of good guys and they teaching

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Speaker 3: me about the laws. And at the same time, I'm

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Speaker 3: trying to gather my evidence to submit my affidavits to

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Speaker 3: the Athelet Division. At the time, my director, Pill was pendent.

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Speaker 3: But I couldn't because you know, my family, we're not rich.

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Speaker 3: We're not rich, we we don't got money like that

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Speaker 3: to be hiring private investigator. So I had my mother.

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Speaker 3: She was, you know, going into these dangerous projects, looking

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Speaker 3: for my friends, looking for people that was at the

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Speaker 3: crime scene that night. And with the help with my mother,

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Speaker 3: I was getting phone numbers, and with the phone numbers,

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Speaker 3: I was contacting people's gathering evidence. I had got about

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Speaker 3: maybe two, like two or three AFID Davis at first,

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Speaker 3: and then my brother laid on we had higher a

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Speaker 3: private investigator to locate these witnesses and get affidavis from them.

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Speaker 3: And as I'm submitting these motions to the court. I'm

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Speaker 3: getting shot down. I'm losing hope, but I'm still fighting

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Speaker 3: because I said, listen, something one Day's friend got to

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Speaker 3: give here. I know I ain't commit this firm and

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Speaker 3: to the course of the years me being in prison,

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Speaker 3: I'm hearing of a guy named Bush, which is Derek Hamilton.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if he's familiar with him. He's a

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Speaker 3: jail house William and I'm like, wow, I gotta meet

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Speaker 3: this guy because i heard he's a beast with the lord.

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Speaker 3: So I end up meeting Derek Hamilton in the law

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Speaker 3: library and we exchanged information D five and stuff like that,

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Speaker 3: and I'm explaining to him about my case. He reviewed

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Speaker 3: my d D five. He sees that scot seller name

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Speaker 3: is in the bottom and he's like, wow, this guy's

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Speaker 3: in my case. He loud on me on my case

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Speaker 3: and he's fighting actual editing the same thing. So we

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Speaker 3: leave Shawongong. We end up in Auburn. When we go

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Speaker 3: to Auburn Correction facility again, I'm in Laura live Burn

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Speaker 3: and I meet Shabaka. Shabaka's there a guy by the

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Speaker 3: name of Danny Ringkong. There also fighting his Edizen and

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Speaker 3: Eric ended up a rising. That's when he came up

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Speaker 3: with the name actual Edison Team AI team. And what

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Speaker 3: we was doing was like one day we will work

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Speaker 3: on my case, the next day we will work on

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Speaker 3: Derek case. Like that, We'll take turns on each other

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Speaker 3: case and Derek telling me what the dude right over here,

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Speaker 3: right over here, do this, do that? And that's the

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Speaker 3: same thing that See telling me what to do. I'm

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Speaker 3: learning And basically what I was doing was lawyer shopping.

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Speaker 3: I'm somem inning a big package with all my evidence

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Speaker 3: with my affid Davis my DD five crime scene sketches

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Speaker 3: that I drew trying to get some help from the outside.

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Speaker 3: I wrote every actually interesting project. I wrote governors, I

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Speaker 3: wrote the President, I wrote everywhere Jason, anyway you can

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Speaker 3: think of, I wrote. And at this time Derek ended

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Speaker 3: up going home in twenty eleven. So Derek always told me, listen,

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Speaker 3: I'm not gonna forget about you. Once I'm making home,

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Speaker 3: I'm there.

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Speaker 1: I got you.

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Speaker 3: I'm not gonna forget. And I don't heard that so

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Speaker 3: many times Jason being in here that you know, guys

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Speaker 3: tell you listen, they're gonna go home do this, and

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Speaker 3: guys just go home and live their life. So I'm like, wow, now,

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Speaker 3: I hope Deyk don't do this to me, you know.

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Speaker 3: And Derek went home and kept his word. Jason, he

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Speaker 3: put Justin on my case and from it we gather

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Speaker 3: more evidence and I'm well not today.

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Speaker 1: Derek has been on the show, Danny ringcon Shabaka Shakur.

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Speaker 1: I mean, all these people are people I know well,

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Speaker 1: and I've talked often about the awesome power that you

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Speaker 1: guys collectively manifested, all of whom had been through the

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Speaker 1: same experience at the hands of the same people, and

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Speaker 1: setting up basically a law firm inside the walls of

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Speaker 1: the prison. You know, call it whatever you want, Shakura, Cruz,

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Speaker 1: Hamilton and ring Khon. I could see it on a letterhead,

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Speaker 1: and hopefully someday you guys will actually form a law

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Speaker 1: firm on the outside, because I think you guys would

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Speaker 1: be incredible together. Derek, when he was on Ronful Conviction,

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, this is like interviewing

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Speaker 1: a yeah law professor. I mean, this guy is on

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Speaker 1: fire so knowledgeable.

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Speaker 2: That is my mentor. By the way, Derek, we call

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Speaker 2: him Mom Google Legal give him a fact and he'll

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Speaker 2: give you a case.

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Speaker 1: And Nelson, you should know it's Derek. But it's not

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Speaker 1: just Derek. I mean, all of us are just super

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Speaker 1: committed to you get home and get on with your life.

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Speaker 2: So Nelson litigated his case, he filed the emotion of vacant,

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Speaker 2: he filed an appeal, and got shot down at every

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Speaker 2: turn over the past twenty years. And so the hearing

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Speaker 2: that we were finally granted in twenty nineteen, and the

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Speaker 2: evidence that we presented was it was quite astounding. I mean, obviously,

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Speaker 2: we called Officer Paietti and again who said that he

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Speaker 2: did not see Nelson Cruz at the scene before, after,

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Speaker 2: or during the crime. We called William Harden, who was

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Speaker 2: across the street watched the ponytailed man kill his friend.

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Speaker 2: He knew Trevor Vieira and did not see Nelson Cruz there.

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Speaker 2: He saw the police pull up at the scene. And

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Speaker 2: then we called William Johnson, who was the other man

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Speaker 2: that was arrested at the scene, and he testified that

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Speaker 2: he knew Nelson Cruz and he did not see Nelson

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Speaker 2: Cruz at the scene. I mean, those are three eye witnesses.

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Speaker 2: We called two alibi witnesses Ralph Johnson, and the only

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Speaker 2: questions that the DA had for Ralph Johnson was did

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Speaker 2: he eat his Chinese food or not that night? That's

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Speaker 2: how solid Ralph Johnson was on the witness stand. Another

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Speaker 2: alibi witness, Bonnie Cooper, who was at the time Andre

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Speaker 2: Bellinger's mistress, testified that Andre Bellinger admitted to her he

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Speaker 2: never saw the crime. Christopher Cooper, Bonnie Cooper's son, who

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Speaker 2: was playing basketball with Andre Bellinger that night. Chris Cooper,

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Speaker 2: testified that Bellinger couldn't have seen it because the shooting

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Speaker 2: had already happened by the time they get there. We

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Speaker 2: also called Jay Salpeter, who was a private investigator who

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Speaker 2: interviewed Andre Bellinger, and he asked, Andre Bellinger, why didn't

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Speaker 2: you mention the police or Edward O. Rodriguez, And Bellinger

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Speaker 2: told j Salpeter that the police never told him that

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Speaker 2: Rodriguez or the police were at the scene, I mean.

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Speaker 2: And we called Jermaine Fraser, the man Shack who Bellinger

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Speaker 2: said started this whole thing off, and Shack testified that

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Speaker 2: he never pulled a gun out on Nelson, that there

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Speaker 2: was never a dispute that night that that's all false.

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Speaker 2: Of course, we called Scarcella and Camill, and you know,

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Speaker 2: Scarcela has amnesia. He can remember what he was wearing

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Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy three, but when you ask him about

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Speaker 2: the case that you're talking about now, he can't remember anything.

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Speaker 2: But Mark Brooks puts him in Camill right with Andre

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Speaker 2: Bellinger before the lineup. I mean, this was such a

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Speaker 2: bad blowout that April twelfth, twenty nineteen, I made an

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Speaker 2: oral argument and also on paper to release Nelson on bail,

430
00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:22,480
Speaker 2: which is astounding in the middle of a post conviction hearing.

431
00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:24,639
Speaker 2: It was going that bad that I said, in the

432
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:27,239
Speaker 2: interest of justice that this court should release him. And

433
00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:30,560
Speaker 2: Judge Simpson on that day said that Lewis Garcela was

434
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:34,520
Speaker 2: totally involved with this case. Andre Bellinger was unreliable, and

435
00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:37,879
Speaker 2: that Chris and Bonnie Cooper she found to be reliable witnesses.

436
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:43,439
Speaker 2: That was April. By August she was in another place.

437
00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:46,200
Speaker 3: You know, God bless Chanda what happened. But I knew

438
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:49,280
Speaker 3: something strange was going on while she was deciding over

439
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:53,520
Speaker 3: my hearing, Jason, she was moving funny, you know, she'd

440
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:57,439
Speaker 3: be given credit to certain amount witnesses testimony, and then

441
00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:00,439
Speaker 3: later on when Justin highlights it to her, it's like

442
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:02,960
Speaker 3: she's lost. Jason was like, she don't know, like what

443
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:05,040
Speaker 3: happened a couple of days ago. And at the end

444
00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:07,560
Speaker 3: when I worked for decision on August twenty ninth, she's

445
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:11,240
Speaker 3: an emotion. Jason, I was like, Lois, but we found

446
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,520
Speaker 3: out that, you know, she was mentally ill with alzhemas.

447
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:16,440
Speaker 3: Has she been in her right state of mind, I

448
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:17,520
Speaker 3: would have been home already.

449
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:21,560
Speaker 1: You know, there's no question. You know. Nelson is referring

450
00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:25,359
Speaker 1: to a very respected judge from the Brooklyn Supreme Court

451
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,520
Speaker 1: who was known for her willingness to vacate wrongful convictions.

452
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,639
Speaker 1: Her name which is Shandiah Simpson, and she had ordered

453
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,760
Speaker 1: due trials previously for other men who had been also

454
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:38,159
Speaker 1: framed by Louis Scarcella. Listen to this quote. In the

455
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:41,919
Speaker 1: case of someone named Hargrove, Judge Simpson had this to

456
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:47,600
Speaker 1: say specifically about Scarcella. The pattern and practice of Scarcella's conduct,

457
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:51,840
Speaker 1: which manifests a disregard for rules, law and the truth,

458
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:56,080
Speaker 1: undermines our judicial system and gives cause for a new

459
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,000
Speaker 1: review of the evidence. I mean, she just called it

460
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:01,920
Speaker 1: out like it was, and here it is again right

461
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:05,160
Speaker 1: in front of her. But the craziest twist of fate

462
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,200
Speaker 1: was that this poor woman who's not an old lady,

463
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 1: she was in her young fifties, she had early on

464
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 1: set Alzheimer's, and she just literally lost the plot.

465
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 2: When I was listening to her decision on August nine,

466
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:22,960
Speaker 2: twenty nineteen, the first decision she read off, I argued orally,

467
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,880
Speaker 2: she left the bench totally abruptly. A court officer came

468
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:28,720
Speaker 2: out and told us to come back after lunch. And

469
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 2: when she came back out after lunch, she read off

470
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 2: another decision, which I was left wondering what hearing that

471
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 2: she sat through. Her decision is based on an erroneous

472
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 2: understanding of what we put forward. I mean, it's that

473
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 2: we presented Edward Rodriguez as our witness for a self

474
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:49,399
Speaker 2: defense claim, which we never took that position. We always

475
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:52,919
Speaker 2: took the position at EDWARDO. Rodriguez was the killer. The

476
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 2: prosecutor put Edward Rodriguez on the witness stand. So she

477
00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 2: misstated that, I mean, there's video of it the crust

478
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:01,160
Speaker 2: of the.

479
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:05,359
Speaker 5: Hearing, and this decision falls on the following Rodriguez testified

480
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 5: at his hearing that the victim fired the first shot

481
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:11,080
Speaker 5: at Cruise and that Cruise shot back in self defense.

482
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 5: The defense claims both that Rodriguez is unreliable and at

483
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 5: the same time acts that the court find his testimony

484
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:22,480
Speaker 5: supports a claim of self defense and that this constitutes

485
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 5: new evidence. For this reason, the motion must be denied.

486
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 4: You want to say something.

487
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 6: He never claimed that Rodriguez was newly discovered evidence claimed

488
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 6: that Rodriguez was unreliable from day one.

489
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 2: Well, they put him off. That's the reverence.

490
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 7: They put evidence on that contradicted the only evidence that

491
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:44,960
Speaker 7: was at trial, which is Andre Balinger right. One witness

492
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,360
Speaker 7: who says the police told him who did it? Who

493
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:48,440
Speaker 7: says the police.

494
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 2: Told him what weapmon was used?

495
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:52,160
Speaker 7: Who even testifies that the police told him that Cruz

496
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 7: was in the lineup.

497
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:56,120
Speaker 2: How reliable is that witness?

498
00:25:56,840 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 6: And then we hear from a witness, the witness that

499
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 6: is the first person who.

500
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:07,200
Speaker 7: Points to Nelson Cruz. He has a motive at guard

501
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 7: Agriguez has a motive to lie. And then fifteen years

502
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 7: later says its self defense. We don't take his position.

503
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 7: That's evidence that day put to four the court. We're

504
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 7: gonna believe that on the day of his birthday he

505
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 7: kills somebody. Unfortunately, in cases like this, the law doesn't

506
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 7: really protect a seventeen year old.

507
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 2: I make my point that Rodriguez wasn't our witness, and

508
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 2: she calls everybody up to the bench, schedules a reargument.

509
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:44,919
Speaker 2: She never provides a written decision and tells us to

510
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 2: come back in December of twenty nineteen. We can do

511
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:51,639
Speaker 2: twelve sixteen. Be back on twelve. That's a Monday.

512
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:55,879
Speaker 1: I've shared this video with the district attorney myself. I

513
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 1: like Eric personally. I do have a lot of respect

514
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 1: for him. Completely confused as to why this case has

515
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 1: been ignored.

516
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 3: When I came back from court last year, you know,

517
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 3: I pulled down my tite write and I started writing

518
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 3: and numerous letters to Ever Gonzales, to people under him,

519
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 3: and never received a response.

520
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 1: There's a very powerful quote where you said in a

521
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 1: letter to Eric Gonzales, I know deep in my heart

522
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:25,200
Speaker 1: something went wrong at my hearing. I know me reaching

523
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 1: out to you may not be the proper way to

524
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 1: go about it, but I truly need help in this

525
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 1: matter and feel that you have the power to step

526
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 1: in and conduct an investigation, and of course a year

527
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:36,399
Speaker 1: after the hearing, in early August twenty twenty, it was

528
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,119
Speaker 1: confirmed that Judge Simpson had early on said Alzheimer's and

529
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:40,159
Speaker 1: she retired.

530
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 3: You know, they should be a shame of what they're

531
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:46,959
Speaker 3: doing with me. Something went wrong, Domani the seed and

532
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 3: something was wrong with the judge. And you got the

533
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 3: power the empazine, You got to see all you yould

534
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 3: to do, which you know, I think ever since Kenneth

535
00:27:55,560 --> 00:28:00,359
Speaker 3: Thompson died, they not following with Kenneth Thompson was gone.

536
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 1: So justin a reargument was granted. It's tragic what happened

537
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 1: for Judge Sandaiah Simpson. What the fuck happens now?

538
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 2: So, in a normal course, the judge will issue a

539
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 2: written decision, the court will enter the decision. She granted

540
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,120
Speaker 2: the motion to reargue, which is very very very rare.

541
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 2: She never issues a written decision. The court doesn't even

542
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 2: enter this decision, which is what has to be done.

543
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 2: So almost a year goes by and in August of

544
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:49,120
Speaker 2: twenty twenty, we find out that Judge Simpson has been

545
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 2: diagnosed with Alzheimer's. So then Judge Demik, the administrative judge,

546
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 2: assigns Raymond L. Rodriguez to the case, so we file

547
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 2: the reargument, and Judge Roguez told us that he wouldn't

548
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 2: hear any of these filings, that the only thing that

549
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 2: was in front of him was Judge Simpson's competency during

550
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 2: the hearing and when she rendered her decision.

551
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 1: Right, but which decision, the initial denial of the motion

552
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 1: to vacate or the decision to grant a reargument.

553
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 2: You bring up a phenomenal point. This is a very

554
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 2: confusing procedural history. He tells us in January of twenty

555
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 2: twenty one that the motion to reargue was taken off

556
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 2: the calendar. He was not going to hear it. The

557
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 2: only thing he ruled on is her oral decision denying

558
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 2: the motion to vacate the conviction and the motion to

559
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 2: vacate her decision based upon her competency. He basically says

560
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 2: that I'm not going to deal with the fact that

561
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 2: she granted reargument, which I don't know how he does

562
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 2: that she already granted it. And then on March first,

563
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, Judge Raymond Rodriguez determined that she was

564
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 2: competent and upheld her oral decision to deny Nelson Cruz's

565
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 2: motion to vacate. And it's very interesting because in our

566
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 2: motion to vacate Judge Simpson's decision that we filed back

567
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 2: on August of twenty twenty, we had an affidavit from

568
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 2: an investigator that spoke to her husband. We also had

569
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 2: a pro public article where the husband spoke and said

570
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:20,719
Speaker 2: that he had noticed that Judge Simpson's mental health had

571
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 2: been slipping as far back as the summer of twenty eighteen,

572
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,959
Speaker 2: which is almost a year before Nelson Cruz's actual hearing,

573
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 2: let alone the decision. So Judge Rodriguez said that all

574
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 2: of that information was speculative and said, I see how

575
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 2: she could come to her decision. There's a reasonable basis

576
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 2: for her decision. I don't know how he comes to

577
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 2: that decision because he's not a doctor, and to be frank,

578
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 2: I mean, he's not a mind reader. So Judge Rodriguez's decision,

579
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 2: we filing leave to appeal. We're also filing a motion

580
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 2: to compel a written decision from the Supreme Court because

581
00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 2: it's our position that Judge Simpson's oral decision wasn't effectively

582
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 2: a decision. It was never filed. It it was never signed

583
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 2: off on by her, and how could she sign off

584
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,479
Speaker 2: on it. Two days after she was in court and

585
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 2: rendered that decision, she went on medical leaf because she

586
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 2: was suffering from Alzheimer's.

587
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 1: When we last spoke, you were at Woodburn Correctional Facility

588
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 1: in upstate New York in the middle of appealing Judge

589
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 1: Rodriguez's decision. So what happened with that appeal?

590
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 4: After I exhausted my state post conviction appeals, we filed

591
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 4: the second successive petition to the federal court, and on

592
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 4: May two, twenty twenty two, I was granted entry into

593
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 4: the second Circuit. And if they granted me entry, it's

594
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 4: because they see my constitution in violations. And I believe

595
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 4: deeply in my heart that any day my case is

596
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 4: going to be overturned.

597
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 1: You know, And that's how it should have been back

598
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen, had Judge Simpson been in better health.

599
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 1: And we hope only the best for her, of course,

600
00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 1: So while your case was making its way through federal

601
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 1: court into the I was in twenty two, having already

602
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:05,719
Speaker 1: served twenty five years. You also became eligible for parole

603
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 1: and went in front of the board.

604
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 4: The day that they bought my decision December twenty second,

605
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 4: twenty twenty two. I was in the trailer. You know

606
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 4: it's the trailer.

607
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's where they allow conjugal visits and for the audience.

608
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 1: Nelson's wife, Verica. They got married about ten years ago

609
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 1: and she's been fighting alongside him for longer than that.

610
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 1: So anyway, go on.

611
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 4: When they bought my decision, I was in the trailer

612
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 4: with my wife and a parole officer came. So he's like, so,

613
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 4: you went to parole two weeks ago. I said, yes, sir.

614
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 4: He said, do you want your decision. When he said that,

615
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 4: I started getting nervous already, because I could have sworn

616
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 4: I was going to get smacked for two years. He

617
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 4: handed me over. The decision was a two page letter.

618
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 4: So as I'm trying to flick the page, He's like,

619
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 4: he see that I'm nervous. So he said, let me

620
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 4: help you out. So he flipped the page and went

621
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 4: straight to the date. He said, there goes what you're

622
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 4: looking for. When I look it said March thirtieth, twenty

623
00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 4: twenty three, my release date. Just started crying. I just couldn't.

624
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 4: I couldn't believe it. With the parole officer. He said, listen,

625
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 4: if it was bad news, I wouldn't come here and

626
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 4: ruin your day. I wouldn't do that. So he said, uh,

627
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 4: you know, merry Christmas, congratulations, and go back and enjoy yourself,

628
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 4: you know. And I went back, and when I told

629
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 4: my wife, my wife just went crazy on the trailer.

630
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 4: She started crying. So the little evening was emotional that day.

631
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 4: It was. It was emotional.

632
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 1: I can't even begin to imagine. And what a Christmas

633
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 1: present for everyone. So March thirtieth, twenty twenty three came around,

634
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 1: and you know, I wasn't gonna miss it. We even

635
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 1: got footage of it when you came out at the

636
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 1: doors into Erica's arms as she held your little baby.

637
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 4: Girl, when the door popped open and I walked out.

638
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 4: Minutes before that, I was in the back of that

639
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 4: door getting dressed, you know, preparing myself, Like wow, I

640
00:33:57,560 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 4: still couldn't believe, Like, while I'm out of here, I

641
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 4: can't believe after tween saying years, I'm walking out to

642
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 4: the streets and streets that I haven't been in since

643
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 4: sixteen years old. I still can't believe it that I'm home.

644
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:12,719
Speaker 4: I still can't believe it. So I came home in time.

645
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 4: My baby was only eight months going on nine months.

646
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:19,880
Speaker 4: I'm enjoying myself with my wife home and my baby,

647
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:22,919
Speaker 4: and I just go to work, come back and I'm

648
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 4: just loving life. Life is beautiful. I mean, I get

649
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 4: on these trains when it's traffic time and people be

650
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:33,239
Speaker 4: so frustrated because the trains is packed. And guess what,

651
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:37,440
Speaker 4: Nelson is happy. Nelson is happy to be on this train.

652
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:41,960
Speaker 4: When anybody you know frustrated that the train is packed,

653
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,840
Speaker 4: you know they late. I'm just smiling. I'm just loving life.

654
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 4: Every day that I wake up. Life is great.

655
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 1: You know, an experience like yours could really put the

656
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:55,720
Speaker 1: day to day annoyances of life into perspective. And it does.

657
00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 1: And I understand you've got not one, but two jobs.

658
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:03,280
Speaker 1: But I know while you were inside, you and Derek Hamilton,

659
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 1: Shabacca Shakur or Danny Rincon, you guys were the actual

660
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:10,359
Speaker 1: Innocence Team or AI team. Are you still working at

661
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 1: that out here?

662
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:14,319
Speaker 4: I work as an exterminator. My second job, I'm a

663
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 4: paralegal at a civil firm, and I'm helping the innocent.

664
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 4: I'm still here helping the innocent, and I'm not going

665
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 4: to stop. I'm not going to figure about those good

666
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:27,840
Speaker 4: brothers I left behind. I'm researching for them, I'm filing

667
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 4: for us for them. I'm helping them to the best

668
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:32,080
Speaker 4: of my ability, trying to help brothers behind the wall.

669
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:33,800
Speaker 4: They can't move, it's crippled.

670
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:36,759
Speaker 1: Well, hopefully we can get Danny out here real soon

671
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 1: to join the rest of the team. And in the meantime,

672
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 1: I'm really glad to hear that you've acclimated well. You're

673
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 1: working hard, two jobs, you have an amazing wife, and

674
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 1: you're a new dad. I got to ask, what's your

675
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:48,720
Speaker 1: favorite part about being a dad?

676
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:51,359
Speaker 4: My favorite part right now is when I come from

677
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 4: work and I put the key in the door, and

678
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 4: my daughter here the door, and once she see me,

679
00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:00,840
Speaker 4: she start crawling to the door, real fat. I love it.

680
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:03,919
Speaker 4: I get emotional. This is my world here, This little

681
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 4: girl is everything to me. She had dive out the

682
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:10,239
Speaker 4: sofa and hit the floor and just start crawling to

683
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 4: the door. She grabs onto my pants and stands up

684
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 4: and starts screaming at me to pick up. I love it.

685
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 1: That's beautiful, man, I love it well. The love of

686
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:21,919
Speaker 1: a good team and I are so happy for you,

687
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:24,400
Speaker 1: and I hope you get a win in federal court

688
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:27,319
Speaker 1: and finally fully put this to rest. But if not,

689
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:29,879
Speaker 1: maybe we can get you in the Brooklyn Conviction Review Unit,

690
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:33,799
Speaker 1: and I'm looking forward to getting together again. So with that,

691
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 1: we've come to closing arguments, and since your case isn't

692
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 1: fully resolved, I'm going to leave Justin's as it was,

693
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 1: as it is, but let's get a new one from you,

694
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:44,919
Speaker 1: because you've got a whole new life and a whole

695
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:47,840
Speaker 1: new outlook. So I'm going to kick it off with

696
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 1: Justin's and then it'll go right over to you.

697
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 2: I just want to make it clear to everybody that

698
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 2: this is a disgrace. The mountains of evidence show that

699
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:02,239
Speaker 2: this man is innocent, and the DA's office has the

700
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:06,960
Speaker 2: ability to interview our witnesses. Our witnesses were consistent in

701
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:11,239
Speaker 2: the conviction review process. Their witnesses weren't consistent, and believe me,

702
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 2: they treated our witnesses differently than they treated their witnesses,

703
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:19,839
Speaker 2: and this is just it's disgraceful. Andre Bellinger came in

704
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 2: in twenty nineteen and he said his trial testimony was truthful.

705
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 2: He maintained his trial testimony, which is that they told

706
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 2: him what type of gun was used. They told him

707
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:33,759
Speaker 2: that it was Nelson Cruz. They told him EDWARDO. Rodriguez

708
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:37,480
Speaker 2: wasn't reliable. They told him they needed him because EDWARDO.

709
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:40,640
Speaker 2: Rodriguez wasn't reliable. They told him that Nelson Cruz was

710
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,760
Speaker 2: going to be in the lineup. This is the only

711
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 2: piece of evidence that convicted Nelson Cruz. I don't really

712
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:50,759
Speaker 2: know if I have to say anything more other than

713
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 2: you heard what I said about what was presented at

714
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:56,280
Speaker 2: the hearing. And that's without saying that Scarcela and Stephen

715
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:58,839
Speaker 2: Camill were involved in this case. To top it off,

716
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 2: they were involved. If ever, there was a case that

717
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 2: was presented in court where clear and convincing evidence was

718
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:09,760
Speaker 2: presented that a man was actually innocent, it was Nelson

719
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:10,479
Speaker 2: Cruz's case.

720
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 4: I'm going hard. My freedom is nothing gonna change now

721
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:17,040
Speaker 4: that I'm home. Like they made it easier for me now,

722
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 4: I could just walk to these courts and be a

723
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 4: pain in the butt until my conviction be overturned. I

724
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:28,360
Speaker 4: just can't believe that I did twenty five years for

725
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:32,719
Speaker 4: someone else murder. I mean, I have police officers that

726
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:36,879
Speaker 4: came forward the court. You know how clear could this get?

727
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:40,720
Speaker 4: I was released. I'm on parole. You know, I'm blessed

728
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 4: that I have two jobs, because you know, out in

729
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 4: society with a felony going to get jobs. You just

730
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 4: staying for the rest of your life. I'm gonna just

731
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 4: keep fighting now that I'm home, even harder. I'm about

732
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:55,279
Speaker 4: to do a rally at City Hall, and I just

733
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 4: want my voice to be heard. And if I got

734
00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 4: to be standing in front of the Discal Attorney office

735
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:03,600
Speaker 4: every day, knocking on his door until my conviction be overturned,

736
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 4: That's what I'm gonna do. I couldn't do that from prison.

737
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 4: I'm not going to bow down to these people. I'm

738
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:11,160
Speaker 4: not not for crime. I didn't commit.

739
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. I want to

740
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:23,920
Speaker 1: thank our production team Connor Hall, Andy Chelsea, Lyla Robinson,

741
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 1: as well as my fellow executive producers Jeff Kempler Kevin Warders,

742
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 1: said Jeff Cleiber. The music in this production, as always,

743
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:33,439
Speaker 1: was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph.

744
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 1: Make sure you follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction

745
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:40,399
Speaker 1: on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction podcast and on Twitter at

746
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:43,319
Speaker 1: wrong Conviction, as well as at Lava for Good. On

747
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:46,360
Speaker 1: all three platforms, you can also follow me on Instagram

748
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,480
Speaker 1: at it's Jason Flab. Wrongful Conviction is a production of

749
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:52,880
Speaker 1: Lava for Good podcast and association with signal Company Number

750
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 1: one