1 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:07,920 Speaker 1: Stephanie Rosenberg works at a secretive Silicon Valley company called 2 00:00:08,039 --> 00:00:11,800 Speaker 1: Meta in San Mateo, California. Meta is working on a 3 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: new kind of technology called augmented reality. It essentially turns 4 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:19,520 Speaker 1: a pair of goggles into a projector for holograms. A 5 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:22,959 Speaker 1: few months ago, Meta decided to do something drastic. The 6 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:26,480 Speaker 1: company began ripping out its employees desktop computers, making them 7 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 1: switch to using the company's own headsets. Stephanie was off 8 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 1: on a work trip at the time, and she was 9 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:34,879 Speaker 1: in for a big surprise when she returned to the office. 10 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 1: And I walked in next morning and put my laptop 11 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:43,639 Speaker 1: bag down and looked up at my desk and realized 12 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:46,959 Speaker 1: something was missing. Like all of us, Stephanie is used 13 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:50,479 Speaker 1: to having a monitor, keyboard, and mouse. There was no 14 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:53,479 Speaker 1: more computer screen on my past i pad. It was 15 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: sitting there. Now. All of Stephanie's daily work, like writing emails, 16 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: making presentations, and monitoring social media happen inside an augmented 17 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:07,319 Speaker 1: reality headset. Then I looked around and other members of 18 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: my team were, uh, you know, reaching out and moving 19 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 1: things around in the air there in the headset. Stephanie 20 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:18,120 Speaker 1: had no choice but to get used to the change 21 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 1: since those desktop monitors aren't coming back. That's because Meta 22 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:25,120 Speaker 1: believes its headsets are going to radically change how we 23 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:27,759 Speaker 1: spend our time at work, spending on a future where 24 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 1: your desktop will be as obsolete as a typewriter. Hi, 25 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 1: I'm Bradstone and I'm Selena Way, and this week on Decrypted, 26 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:46,399 Speaker 1: we'll take a look into what the future of work 27 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 1: might look like through one startups experiments with augmented reality. 28 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 1: Augmented reality is still at a very early stage of development, 29 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: and Meta is up against tech giants like Microsoft and 30 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 1: Apple that are investing heavily and developing their own headsets 31 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 1: that compete with metas product one forecast as the global 32 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: a R market could be worth a hundred and sixty 33 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:09,679 Speaker 1: five billion dollars by two thousand and twenty four. I'll 34 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 1: go behind the scenes to see how the transition has 35 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:14,080 Speaker 1: gone at Meta and see for myself what it's like 36 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 1: to work with three D holograms. Stay with us, so, Selena, 37 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 1: I remember the first time I came across Meta. It 38 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 1: was February two thousand sixteen at the TED conference in Vancouver, 39 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:34,360 Speaker 1: and I have to say this has only happened to 40 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:37,360 Speaker 1: me a few times. In my career covering technology. I 41 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 1: put on the Meta glasses, I saw you a virtual 42 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 1: monitor in front of me. I think they had the 43 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:46,079 Speaker 1: Bloomberg terminal on the screen, and I was like, Wow, this, 44 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:49,800 Speaker 1: if it works, will change everything. And I remember shortly 45 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 1: after that conference, you told me to start digging into 46 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 1: this company. And I went back and listened to that 47 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 1: TED conference and I noticed it was then that may 48 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:01,960 Speaker 1: Ron Gribbets, the CEO, made this very daring promise, which 49 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:04,960 Speaker 1: is why all hundred of us at Meta, including the 50 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: administrative staff, the executives, the designers and engineers before, we're 51 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:15,080 Speaker 1: all going to be throwing away our external monitors and 52 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 1: replacing them with a truly and profoundly more natural machine. 53 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 1: And Meta has seriously followed through on that goal. Marone 54 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 1: is only thirty one years old and he founded Meta 55 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 1: in after studying neuroscience and computer science at Columbia University. 56 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 1: He made the first Meta prototype with an oven heated 57 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 1: knife and hot glue gun the same year that he 58 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: founded the startup, and last year, Meta raised fifty million 59 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 1: dollars from investors like Lenovo and ten Cent. Today, Meta 60 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 1: is targeting its headsets at developers and companies and industries 61 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: like design and manufacturing. The current headset costs ninety nine 62 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 1: dollars and they're expecting more than ten thousand people to 63 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:00,160 Speaker 1: be using it by the end of the year. A 64 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:05,840 Speaker 1: R will eventually supplant replace the phone and the tablet 65 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: and the computer entirely. Here my own standing in his 66 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 1: futuristic looking office with tall glass windows in a thin 67 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 1: slap of wood as his standing desk. He's wearing his 68 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 1: usual jeans, T shirt and blazer. People will have strips 69 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 1: of glass that from the front perspective will look very 70 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 1: much like the glasses I have on. That will be 71 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 1: able to do everything that a computer, a tablet or 72 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 1: a phone will be able to do, and a whole 73 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 1: lot more so. Augmented reality is a new frontier for computing. Now, 74 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:41,719 Speaker 1: this is not virtual reality. When you put the goggles on, 75 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 1: you still see the world around you, but you can 76 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 1: also see images that are generated inside the headset overlaid 77 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: on top of reality. That's why it's also sometimes called 78 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 1: mixed reality. And this experiment going on at met At 79 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 1: the company calls it dog footing. In fact, John Signs, 80 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:01,360 Speaker 1: who's the company CFO, did the nearly forty years ago 81 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 1: at a different company. Back then, he was making people 82 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 1: switch from typewriters to desktops. The idea is that by 83 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 1: using its own product, Meta will work through bugs and 84 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 1: kinks and improve its product faster than competitors, So you're 85 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 1: gonna get ten x more of the feedback then you 86 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:20,840 Speaker 1: would have otherwise gotten through from your customers before your 87 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:23,920 Speaker 1: customers even get it, which is important because there are 88 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 1: much bigger companies like Microsoft and Apple working on their 89 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 1: own augmented reality products. But the much bigger idea was, 90 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 1: if we're all going to use the spatial office, the 91 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 1: holographic office first, we were going to find those killer 92 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 1: apps and build them and refine them way before anyone. 93 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:43,479 Speaker 1: And by the way, the concept of the spatial office 94 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:45,800 Speaker 1: is something will come back to later because working with 95 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:48,719 Speaker 1: the three D holograms means a physical office could look 96 00:05:48,800 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 1: totally different that his office looks like your typical startup. 97 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 1: There's plenty of snacks and every type of drink imaginable, 98 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:06,919 Speaker 1: from kombucha on tap to coconut water. There's even a 99 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 1: band area set up in the cafeteria from Promptu performances. Still, 100 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:13,159 Speaker 1: it was startling to see a room full of people 101 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:16,720 Speaker 1: wearing these futuristic looking headsets going about their work as 102 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 1: if it's totally ordinary. One very new employee, Liz o Wart, 103 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: says she felt the same way. We've all seen Minority Report, 104 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 1: and we've seen people interacting with holograms, and it was 105 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 1: really such an interesting experience to walk into an office 106 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:35,159 Speaker 1: environment and see people in my future colleagues actually in 107 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 1: the headset doing the things that they would be doing 108 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 1: every day. I wasn't expecting to see so much physical movement. 109 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 1: People were grabbing empty space, rotating their hands in the air, 110 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: and pushing air with their arms. Some people were even 111 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 1: turning all the way around them, placing holographic objects behind them. Yeah. 112 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 1: I saw the video that our colleague David Nicholson shot 113 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 1: at Meta's offices. It looks totally bizarre. I mean, without 114 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:01,000 Speaker 1: any context, you would think that you're watching some kind 115 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:04,159 Speaker 1: of performance. Are there something from a sci fi movie? Yeah? 116 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: And the MET headset itself wraps all the way around 117 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 1: your head and at the front has this sort of visor. Right, 118 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 1: the optical element as they call it, sits in the 119 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 1: headset and is projected onto the visor. The sides of 120 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 1: the headset are embossed in brown leather, and there's a 121 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 1: strap over the top of your head to kind of 122 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: balance out the weight. Their sensors on the headset and 123 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 1: a front facing camera, but it's pretty light, not too heavy, 124 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 1: about a pound. It's a different world going from the 125 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 1: two D rail to the three D world. That was 126 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 1: Liz again. I was shot three that I would be 127 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 1: wearing it. I had the chance to try the headset 128 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 1: myself with Ryan Pamplin, whose main role at META is 129 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 1: to get people more interested in using augmented reality. He's 130 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 1: twenty nine. He takes the headset everywhere, even on the airplane. 131 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 1: His office is also impeccably clean, a white desk with 132 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 1: nothing on it except the headset and a keyboard. But 133 00:07:55,960 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 1: inside the headset, his office looks much different. There's a 134 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 1: lot more decoration in my version of my office than 135 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 1: in yours. Brian's holographic office was full of personal photos 136 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 1: scattered all around in the air, in front of multiple 137 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 1: floating screens and little three D holographic figurines around his desk. 138 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 1: There's also things I wouldn't put in my real office 139 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 1: that I have in here, Like I I wouldn't have 140 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 1: all the pictures of my girlfriend and I like plastered everywhere. 141 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 1: And I probably wouldn't have a bust of Steve jobs 142 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 1: because I don't know where to buy one of those. 143 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 1: And can you hear anything? Yes, there was actually Katie 144 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:36,839 Speaker 1: Perry music playing, but I couldn't tell where it was 145 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 1: coming from. But then I swiveled the chair around and 146 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:42,680 Speaker 1: saw that Ryan had placed the YouTube music video web 147 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 1: page right behind me. Turns out there were also many 148 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 1: other strange holographic objects behind me as well. And then 149 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:51,960 Speaker 1: over here you have the workspace, which is the shelf 150 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 1: you see, so why don't you try and grab the instrument. 151 00:08:55,880 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 1: It's the sort of rainbow ball that shelf I saw 152 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 1: part of metas workspace. It's the equivalent of what you 153 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:05,320 Speaker 1: see when you first power on your computer. It's the 154 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 1: desktop setting that's typically a bunch of icons and folders 155 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: you click into to access your work. So you can 156 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 1: take your hand to put that and just put it 157 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 1: flat in front of you. See a We'll circle around 158 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 1: your hand when it's in the right place. Maybe you 159 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 1: need to be a little closer m and just close 160 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 1: your fist on it, and now you can pull it out. 161 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 1: Oh got it? Interesting? It's in colorful or and now 162 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:30,839 Speaker 1: go ahead and play it with your fingers. So this 163 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:34,560 Speaker 1: is how I relieve stress and make beautiful music. This 164 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:38,079 Speaker 1: is wild. Everyone I spoke to at Metasine, the biggest 165 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 1: productivity gain was being able to have an unlimited number 166 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: of screens that you could scale as large as you 167 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 1: wanted to. It's kind of like having your own command 168 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 1: center where you arrange things three D sixty degrees around 169 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 1: you and pull objects to your attention right when you 170 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 1: need them. Interesting, So how easy is it to move 171 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:57,720 Speaker 1: these three D objects around? It definitely took me if 172 00:09:57,760 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 1: you tries to figure out how to move them around, 173 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:02,319 Speaker 1: how to learned how to position my hands so that 174 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 1: the technology would track my hands and allow me to 175 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 1: enlarge and move or rotate the holographic object. But I'm 176 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 1: sure the demo you tested fixed many of the kinks 177 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:14,839 Speaker 1: that employees must have suffered through in the early days. Right, definitely, 178 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 1: and Meta is transition across the workplace has been far 179 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 1: from smooth. I was extremely nervous about this. I was 180 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 1: extremely I mean it's it's you're going against fifty years 181 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 1: of computing tools in one year, as with any major 182 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:36,200 Speaker 1: change at work, meta Is transition to three D headsets 183 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 1: has at times been challenging. Meta started giving out the 184 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 1: headsets at the end of March, and they started with 185 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 1: the engineers. They make up one of the largest teams 186 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 1: with the highest pressure deadlines. In retrospect, it may have 187 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 1: been a mistake to start there, so that rollout went 188 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 1: a little out of hand. This is Cecilia, a body 189 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:59,720 Speaker 1: a product manager, like, we didn't get as much used 190 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 1: as we wanted. The feedback was a little segmented, like 191 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 1: people will find one problem and put it down. Basically, 192 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:09,719 Speaker 1: the engineers complained and we're frustrated that they couldn't get 193 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 1: their work done on time without their regular PC monitors. 194 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 1: We know there's a heat on productivity at the beginnings, 195 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 1: and it's okay, Like, it's completely okay that the first 196 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:22,079 Speaker 1: days that you use the workspace and the environment on 197 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:25,199 Speaker 1: a r you're going to be less productive than your 198 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 1: normal work. It's an investment. It's something you have to 199 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:30,960 Speaker 1: do so that you find all the problems, so that 200 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:32,840 Speaker 1: you build all the things that you need to have. 201 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 1: The transition caused so many issues eventually that Meta decided 202 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 1: to give the engineers back their desktop computers and transition 203 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:45,440 Speaker 1: smaller groups at a slower pace. They started with the marketing, sales, 204 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 1: and general and administrative departments, so they're the guinea pigs. 205 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 1: So what were their experiences like? So I've been regularly 206 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 1: checking in with a few of the employees trying to 207 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 1: track their experiences. They've raised a pretty interesting set of issues. 208 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 1: Wanted the complain was maneuvering the floating screen so that 209 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 1: they were in just the perfect places, or dealing with 210 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 1: how natural light affects the viewability of the holograms. Not 211 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:17,199 Speaker 1: your normal set of workplace complaints. I don't think at 212 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 1: the beginning, it was very simple things that were pretty frustrating. 213 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 1: I found, for instance, that Ergo headset didn't match my 214 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:27,560 Speaker 1: particular head shape, so I actually just attached the weight 215 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:29,839 Speaker 1: onto the back to make it so it was more 216 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:33,200 Speaker 1: comfortable to me. It's just a new way of dealing 217 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 1: with issues. I found reading for long period of time 218 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:41,960 Speaker 1: to be difficult for me personally. So Selena, how is 219 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 1: meta measuring whether or not this workplace switched to augmented 220 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:48,840 Speaker 1: reality headsets is actually helping the company. They have a 221 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 1: team of neuroscientists that are collecting data points and productivity 222 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 1: changes like visual perception, speed of interaction, and physical comfort. 223 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,680 Speaker 1: That is also encouraging employees to write daily logs. I 224 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:02,560 Speaker 1: give feedback on this whole experience, and clearly there was 225 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 1: a lot of feedback. So how fast are they fixing 226 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:08,839 Speaker 1: these problems? It really just depends on how complicated it is, 227 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:11,920 Speaker 1: but for most things it's actually very fast since there's 228 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 1: this constant interaction between the teams. When I first started 229 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:17,720 Speaker 1: my role out, there was a little bit of jitter, 230 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 1: which means it kind of sort of shakes a little 231 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:22,680 Speaker 1: bit in the spot. But then with the last update 232 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 1: that I got about a week in a hospital that 233 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 1: was gone, they just kissed updating that algorithms. Esther lee 234 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 1: Q is an industrial designer whose job is to create 235 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 1: what the next generation of the headset is going to 236 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:36,440 Speaker 1: look like. So she's actually one of the employees who 237 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 1: found the transition quite helpful. Very early on, I really 238 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:45,440 Speaker 1: enjoyed using the headset for reviews with our CEO Moron, 239 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 1: and that's just been like nine and day of being 240 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 1: able to communicate my ideas. Having a physical, three dimensional 241 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:56,959 Speaker 1: hologram that we can all look at and review. It's 242 00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 1: just taken away so much confusion from looking at a 243 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 1: two drawing. According to Mayro and the CEO, the hardest 244 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:06,080 Speaker 1: part of the transition actually had nothing to do with 245 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 1: the technology. The technology is probably the easiest thing to 246 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:12,760 Speaker 1: get done. We got the photo realism, we got most 247 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 1: of the kinks of the ergonomics. Guess what the hardest 248 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 1: part was. It was to get people to want to 249 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 1: give up the tools that they love, especially software engineers 250 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: and and folks that have habituated to be surrounded by 251 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:29,600 Speaker 1: these these monitors. Um, they've grown connected to them, and 252 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:32,359 Speaker 1: now parting with them was It was a real emotional 253 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 1: journey for a lot of people. Once employees got over 254 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: that initial hurdle, they told me that work became a 255 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 1: whole new kind of immersion they've never experienced before. You 256 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:50,120 Speaker 1: definitely forget about it off the first sort of five 257 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: minutes of having it all That was Karas O'Connell met 258 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:57,960 Speaker 1: as director of User Experience, and I found myself for 259 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 1: getting I've gotten on and leaning in towards, um, you 260 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 1: know something, I'm trying to look out on my desk 261 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 1: and accidentally head pupping the desk. So this was an 262 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 1: interesting thing to hear about. The challenge is going back 263 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 1: to the normal world. You sort of have to go 264 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 1: through a decompression almost to go back to these rectangles. 265 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 1: Adjusting to the real world after you've been inside the 266 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:26,560 Speaker 1: headset for some time can be very difficult. Suddenly everything 267 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 1: seems very small. With that. I pick up my iPhone 268 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 1: and I sort of squinting at it after being in 269 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 1: the headset for a while, and suddenly the irony is 270 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 1: the old things don't make sense anymore, and You're like, Wow, 271 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 1: why is this so small? I can't believe we have 272 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 1: such small rectangles around us all the time. Liz, who 273 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 1: has only been using the headset for a few weeks 274 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:52,280 Speaker 1: at this point, is that being in the headset all 275 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 1: day I started to affect her movement in the real 276 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 1: world as well. I went to lunch and I tried 277 00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:00,120 Speaker 1: to grasp the tongs because we always have salad at 278 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:02,280 Speaker 1: the front of the salad bar, and I was like 279 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 1: trying to grasp it like it was a hologram. It's 280 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 1: not that it's not hologram. This is real life. So Selena, 281 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 1: what's the verdict so far? Thus far? Pretty invaluable. I mean, 282 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 1: many of the new features in the headset software and 283 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 1: hardware were actually developed as a result of this whole 284 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 1: spatial rollout. In dog fooding process, they fixed issues ranging 285 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 1: from simple bugs set up an installation to actually creating 286 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 1: completely new applications. I spoke to the head of legal 287 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 1: who said that the companies filed several patents since starting 288 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 1: this whole process, but clearly Meta had to slow down 289 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 1: when I got rid of its computer monitors. Was the 290 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:46,360 Speaker 1: productivity hit worth it on balance? I think it's a 291 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 1: definite yes. I mean pretty early in the process, they 292 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 1: realized there actually weren't enough applications in three D, specifically 293 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:57,320 Speaker 1: for the holograms. So Meta did this company wide hackathon 294 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 1: where they divided everyone into teams and for days did 295 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:04,080 Speaker 1: nothing else but brainstorm and create new applications for the headset. 296 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 1: So from that keem ideas like the holographic instrument and 297 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 1: three D data plotting tools. And this is only the beginning. 298 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:12,880 Speaker 1: I mean, Meta is going to encounter many, many more 299 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:16,240 Speaker 1: hurdles as it tries to commercialize as entirely new way 300 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:19,760 Speaker 1: to work. Hardware is difficult for startups to get right, definitely, 301 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:22,719 Speaker 1: and Met has already experienced some of the struggles. Just 302 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 1: a few months ago, the company said it ran into 303 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:28,959 Speaker 1: manufacturing delays because of issues scaling at production and processing procedures. 304 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:32,040 Speaker 1: And then there's Apple, which is moving forward with its 305 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 1: own competing device. A R has become so big for Apple. 306 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 1: Tim Cook, the CEO, recently said to our colleagues at 307 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:41,679 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business Week that he's so excited about the technology 308 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 1: he just wants to yell out and scream. Definitely something 309 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 1: you don't want to take lightly. And Plus, a big 310 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:49,920 Speaker 1: company like Apple is on an advantage with way more 311 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 1: cash and many more employees, right, as well as an 312 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 1: established network of suppliers and an existing ecosystem of developers. 313 00:17:56,880 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 1: Any new computing platform will need developers to make new 314 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:03,440 Speaker 1: apps and services. Plus, PC sales have been slowing for 315 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:07,040 Speaker 1: several years, and even smartphone sales are reaching saturation. So 316 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:09,640 Speaker 1: the large tech companies have more at stake than ever 317 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 1: to dominate this next wave of computing. So if you 318 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:18,479 Speaker 1: don't need monitors, if you can just make do with 319 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:21,160 Speaker 1: a R headsets, you probably don't need the same kind 320 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 1: of desks we used today either. Right, Medic's actually thinking 321 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:27,840 Speaker 1: about doing a pretty major overhaul at the offices. Instead 322 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 1: of a desk, there will be slabs of wood as 323 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:33,480 Speaker 1: standing desks. They'd be long but narrow, wide enough for 324 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 1: just a keyboard and headset. Wow. So no more cubicles 325 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 1: in the offices of the future right ma Room calls 326 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:43,320 Speaker 1: them the tyranny of the modern workplace. Meta wants to 327 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 1: get rid of chairs to Actually, it's going to look 328 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 1: a lot more like a group of people organically huddling 329 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:54,719 Speaker 1: around one hologram and discussing it um a group of 330 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:57,080 Speaker 1: people on the other side of the office looking at 331 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 1: code collaboratively in a in a group, and not these 332 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:07,160 Speaker 1: desks that are separating us. So, Selena, are you excited 333 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:10,120 Speaker 1: for the day when we start huddling around holograms instead 334 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:13,720 Speaker 1: of sitting behind our monitors. Well, I think it will 335 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 1: be great when the technology actually gets to the place 336 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:20,480 Speaker 1: where it's ten times easier than an iPhone. But as 337 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:23,240 Speaker 1: the technology is right now, I think I still feel 338 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 1: comfortable with the monitor I have today for the type 339 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 1: of work that we do as journalists, I don't see 340 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:31,680 Speaker 1: it as being exponentially more productive for me to work 341 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 1: with all of these floating monitors. I mean, it would 342 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 1: be great for expanding my screens and being able to 343 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:42,399 Speaker 1: write this long podcast with unlimited space, but it's definitely 344 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 1: still an odd feeling, and I still feel quite attached 345 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 1: to my monitors and my laptop. I guess the question is, 346 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 1: will one day it become just cheaper to put on 347 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:53,960 Speaker 1: a pair of glasses instead of to buy buy a 348 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:56,880 Speaker 1: monitor for for your cubicle but also for your home, 349 00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: right instead of these big flat TVs that can cost 350 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:02,200 Speaker 1: on hundreds of dollars, we might just have these floating 351 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:05,440 Speaker 1: virtual screens all around us one day, definitely. I mean 352 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:08,719 Speaker 1: Maybrone talks about these headsets being merely strips of glass 353 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:11,280 Speaker 1: in just the next few years, So he's definitely expecting 354 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 1: this hardware to become commoditized in the very near future. 355 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 1: And I mean he thinks it's going to get to 356 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:20,639 Speaker 1: a place where it's so much easier and more intuitive 357 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 1: to use that you'd want to use it and you'd 358 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 1: want to ditch these old devices. I mean, now it's 359 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 1: still attached to a chord, but even the next generation 360 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 1: device is supposed to be more mobile, right, it definitely 361 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 1: has to become more portable. Do you have any idea 362 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 1: when Meta will start selling those headsets in regular stores. 363 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:38,880 Speaker 1: I think it's still going to be several years Maybrone 364 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:42,399 Speaker 1: is definitely aiming for less than five, but probably not 365 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:51,600 Speaker 1: for the next couple of years. And that's it for 366 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:55,199 Speaker 1: this week's Decrypted. Thanks for listening. We always like to 367 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:57,080 Speaker 1: hear what you think of the show. You can record 368 00:20:57,119 --> 00:20:59,640 Speaker 1: a voice message and send it to us that Decrypted 369 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:03,720 Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot net or I'm on Twitter at Selena, 370 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:08,160 Speaker 1: Underscore Why, Underscore Way, and I'm at brad Stone. If 371 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:11,040 Speaker 1: you haven't already, please subscribe to our show wherever you 372 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:14,119 Speaker 1: get your podcasts. While you're there, please leave us a 373 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 1: rating in the review. It really helps more listeners find 374 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:21,560 Speaker 1: the show. This episode was produced by Pia Gatkari, Liz Smith, 375 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,919 Speaker 1: and Magnus Hendrickson. Thanks to Niko Grant first help on 376 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:28,480 Speaker 1: today's show. Robin and Yellow edited my print story about Meta, 377 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:31,879 Speaker 1: which you can read at Bloomberg dot com slash Tech. 378 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 1: Once you're there, you should also check out the video 379 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 1: my colleague David Nicholson shot at met his office is 380 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:39,879 Speaker 1: to get the full impact of what this technology is like. 381 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:43,919 Speaker 1: Alec McCabe is head of Bloomberg Podcasts. We'll see you 382 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 1: next week.