WEBVTT - MGMT Owned My Hole 0:00:03.080 --> 0:00:05.720 I also feel like Harry put his whole person, put 0:00:05.760 --> 0:00:11.880 his whole put Harry put his whole Harressy into it. 0:00:17.840 --> 0:00:23.280 Today we are doing essentially the podcast version of reblogging. 0:00:24.920 --> 0:00:29.639 We are going to be looking back at um Indeed 0:00:29.720 --> 0:00:33.280 Sleeve's archive, if you will. Yes, we are going back 0:00:33.360 --> 0:00:37.160 into our tumblers, which I mean no longer exists mine 0:00:37.200 --> 0:00:40.279 at least don't have been scrubbed from the Internet. And 0:00:40.320 --> 0:00:44.200 we are going to talk about what is Inde sleeves um, 0:00:44.240 --> 0:00:48.120 the aesthetics and media that exemplified it, how it, you know, 0:00:48.440 --> 0:00:53.840 was bread and spread on tumbler, and how it's returning 0:00:53.880 --> 0:00:59.160 today and maybe a slightly different form because this is 0:00:59.200 --> 0:01:01.560 like a virgin the show where we give yesterday's pop 0:01:01.600 --> 0:01:05.400 culture today's tapes, Timber's dam you and I'm Fran Toronto. 0:01:05.720 --> 0:01:09.400 So you know, brush off your Shin's record, put on 0:01:09.480 --> 0:01:13.399 put on your Santy gold T shirt. I loves. I 0:01:13.480 --> 0:01:16.240 forgot to talk about that. I loved well, I guess 0:01:16.240 --> 0:01:19.679 the Shins. Also, Shin's is like early because you know, 0:01:19.760 --> 0:01:23.360 the first time I heard the Shins was in Garden State. Obviously. 0:01:23.520 --> 0:01:25.640 Wait wait wait wait wait wait okay, okay, okay, wait, 0:01:25.680 --> 0:01:28.240 maybe we should we talk about the gardens. No, the 0:01:28.319 --> 0:01:33.160 Garden States, Like two thousand four, it was pre eminent, Yes, 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:41.240 devastating news. Today, I believe I have seen my last 0:01:42.040 --> 0:01:46.800 movie as an AMC STUBBORNSTA. You are officially canceling your 0:01:46.800 --> 0:01:48.920 membership when you moved to New York. Is that what's happening? 0:01:49.400 --> 0:01:54.160 You're a band abandoning our principle. I'm in the wake. 0:01:54.640 --> 0:01:57.040 It's not like I can just drive over to the Grove, 0:01:57.160 --> 0:02:00.640 or drive over to AMC Sunset five, or drive over 0:02:00.720 --> 0:02:05.960 to Universal CityWalk slash Marguerita Villamporium and see a movie. 0:02:06.440 --> 0:02:09.880 But if there was a way to go, I'm glad 0:02:09.960 --> 0:02:13.480 it was seeing Ticket to Parents. Where are you glad? Though? 0:02:14.040 --> 0:02:15.840 How did you feel when we locked out of this 0:02:15.880 --> 0:02:19.160 movie together? Um? I did have a really good time, 0:02:19.320 --> 0:02:21.760 even though it's not a good movie. Okay, if you 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:24.360 had a really good time, name one thing that happened 0:02:24.360 --> 0:02:27.720 in the movie that you enjoyed that you remember. Julia Roberts. 0:02:27.720 --> 0:02:28.760 No, no no, no, no, no, no, no no, no no no, no, 0:02:29.280 --> 0:02:35.079 specifically no, that is the specific thing I enjoyed. Julia 0:02:35.160 --> 0:02:39.480 Roberts because she is the last movie star and has 0:02:40.080 --> 0:02:43.280 endless charisma and every time she was on screen, I 0:02:43.360 --> 0:02:47.120 was having fun, even in a bad movie like like 0:02:47.280 --> 0:02:49.720 notting Hill, which I watched for the first time and 0:02:49.919 --> 0:02:52.320 since it first came out recently and it's not a 0:02:52.320 --> 0:02:55.160 good movie. But Julia Roberts well, I mean in that movie, 0:02:55.160 --> 0:02:57.440 she at least has Hugh Grant to work with um 0:02:57.520 --> 0:03:00.800 And in this movie, I think George Clooney was not 0:03:00.960 --> 0:03:04.760 the best scene partner for her. But Julie Roberts, anytime 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:07.079 she was on screen, I was happy to be there. Yeah, 0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:11.280 I mean, obviously their star power is like gonna get 0:03:11.320 --> 0:03:14.600 you know, butts into seats in that theater. I think 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:17.400 a lot of like the appeal obviously is just like 0:03:17.520 --> 0:03:20.320 us waiting for Julia Roberts to like laugh like that 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:23.880 honestly totally for me. Her huge amounts. And the thing 0:03:24.000 --> 0:03:26.799 is she her character is like a bitch in this 0:03:26.919 --> 0:03:30.680 which I love, Like I love Julia in an era 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:33.440 where she gets to be a kind of like mean 0:03:33.560 --> 0:03:37.280 or uptight character, but she doesn't as a character laugh 0:03:37.560 --> 0:03:40.280 until like halfway through the movie, Like we're not really 0:03:40.320 --> 0:03:43.680 satiated until like far into the movie where she finally 0:03:43.800 --> 0:03:45.680 cracks and she has like a little bit of like 0:03:45.800 --> 0:03:48.720 joy in her character because they know the power of 0:03:48.720 --> 0:03:52.200 of her laugh and the power of the power of 0:03:52.240 --> 0:03:56.280 going to Bali And and discovering yourself. Honestly, like this 0:03:56.440 --> 0:04:02.160 wascovery because for anyone, for anyone who hasn't seen the trailer, 0:04:02.240 --> 0:04:04.840 in which basically the whole movie story of the film 0:04:04.920 --> 0:04:08.280 is given away. It's about Julia Roberts and George Clooney, 0:04:08.400 --> 0:04:10.600 who like fell in love very young, had a child, 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:13.680 were married for five years, had an extremely bitter divorce, 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:17.320 and then have to come back together when their daughter, 0:04:17.360 --> 0:04:20.679 after graduating from college, decides to get married and Bali 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:24.440 and moved there Forever and their daughters played by Caitlin 0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:30.119 Deaver from Book Smart, and she was great in Book 0:04:30.120 --> 0:04:34.320 Smart and was really bad in this, mostly because I 0:04:34.360 --> 0:04:37.840 think she didn't have a character. Her only character trait 0:04:37.880 --> 0:04:40.880 was that she wore the same pair of thin gold 0:04:40.880 --> 0:04:43.800 hoops in every scene. They looked like they were from 0:04:43.839 --> 0:04:47.480 Forever twenty one, and it just was such a weird 0:04:47.560 --> 0:04:51.400 styling choice and was extremely distracting for me. I don't know. 0:04:51.560 --> 0:04:53.440 I think the movie could have been much better if 0:04:53.480 --> 0:04:57.839 either um there were a lot more parallels between Julia 0:04:57.960 --> 0:05:02.640 and George's problems and the couple's problems so that you 0:05:02.680 --> 0:05:04.760 were more invested in them, and like it used the 0:05:04.839 --> 0:05:09.440 language of film to tell both stories simultaneously, or if 0:05:09.480 --> 0:05:11.720 they had just kind of cut the young people entirely 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:14.360 and it was just Julia and George. Yeah, I mean, 0:05:14.800 --> 0:05:17.240 I just feel that there could have been more parallels 0:05:17.240 --> 0:05:20.440 between Julia Roberts character in this movie and Julia Roberts 0:05:20.600 --> 0:05:24.720 character in a Prey Love where she also goes to Molly. Um. 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:27.520 Really this by herself though? Yeah, but the thing is 0:05:27.600 --> 0:05:29.800 maybe on a journey of self. This really could have 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:33.440 been a sequel. This maybe this is a sequel. Maybe 0:05:33.480 --> 0:05:37.200 this is the end of Elizabeth Gilbert's life after e 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:41.599 Pray Love has happened and she is descending on Bolly 0:05:42.080 --> 0:05:45.480 to what is it her her the girl's fiance as 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:48.120 a seaweed farmer. What the fuck? He has a seweed 0:05:48.160 --> 0:05:50.159 farmer who has a who has recently inked to deal 0:05:50.200 --> 0:05:54.800 with Wait, that's actually real virgins, that's real. That is 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:58.960 an actual line, That an actual point. He has also 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:01.880 with whole foods. So his seaweed farm is and okay 0:06:01.960 --> 0:06:04.560 wait wait it's it's legitimized. And there's that when the 0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:07.239 when his home is introduced, this is a literal seaweed farmer. 0:06:07.320 --> 0:06:10.400 She wakes up and and she is in a resort. 0:06:10.600 --> 0:06:13.880 She is in a five star resort that is revealed 0:06:13.920 --> 0:06:16.040 to be the kind you see on TikTok where like 0:06:16.320 --> 0:06:19.039 you sit up in bed and the oceans oceans in 0:06:19.040 --> 0:06:22.520 front of you, like try our birds chirping, and I'm like, 0:06:22.760 --> 0:06:25.080 I'm like what this is a seaweed farmer. And that's 0:06:25.120 --> 0:06:28.440 when he says, oh yeah, Jeff Bezos is lying in 0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:31.200 the coffers of like I'm just fill in cash like 0:06:31.560 --> 0:06:34.359 around like my map whatever. I'm just like So it 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:37.560 was so funny. It was just a bizarre script. It 0:06:37.640 --> 0:06:41.400 was very bizarre. Also, Caitlin Diaver's bestie is played by 0:06:41.440 --> 0:06:45.680 Billy Lord of American Horror Story Fame, and there's this 0:06:45.760 --> 0:06:49.880 one scene where she she's like a crazy party girl, 0:06:50.240 --> 0:06:53.320 like none none of the jokes about her land, but 0:06:53.400 --> 0:06:55.960 the people in the theater were loving her. But there's 0:06:55.960 --> 0:06:58.200 a scene where she George Clooney is like at the 0:06:58.200 --> 0:07:00.160 bar at the hotel at night because he can't sleep 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:02.320 and he's having a drink and Kaylin Deaver comes up 0:07:02.320 --> 0:07:04.760 to him. I'm like, Oh, great, they're gonna fuck. But 0:07:04.800 --> 0:07:07.400 then he starts telling this like sad story about how 0:07:07.600 --> 0:07:09.920 he and Julia Roberts broke up because their house burned down, 0:07:09.960 --> 0:07:11.840 and I'm like, did Julia Roberts Sadden on fire? Like 0:07:11.840 --> 0:07:13.680 I don't get where this is going? But then the 0:07:13.720 --> 0:07:16.760 scene ends without them fucking, and I'm just like, no, 0:07:16.880 --> 0:07:19.440 but like, in the in the world of who you're 0:07:19.440 --> 0:07:21.840 telling me these characters are, they would have and we 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:25.520 never learned more about the fire. It's so disorienting and 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:29.000 also just like but yeah, totally, it felt a lot 0:07:29.080 --> 0:07:33.040 like them fucking was in the original script and they 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:35.440 cut it for like decent. No, it was never. It 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:37.720 was never What is the point of that scene? Then 0:07:37.760 --> 0:07:40.600 they're like at a bar because because George has to 0:07:40.720 --> 0:07:44.960 expose himself emotionally and like it's literally just there so 0:07:45.000 --> 0:07:48.640 that he reveals that he actually loved him when she 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:51.440 like she like slithers up to him like she is 0:07:51.480 --> 0:07:53.720 ready to fund Maybe it's just like the energy that 0:07:54.040 --> 0:07:59.400 maybe she kind of and it's projecting. It's us projecting, 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:04.680 you would want totoing. I think that we were projected. Well, 0:08:04.720 --> 0:08:07.200 the vibe, the vibe was there, but that's not a 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:10.360 movie in which that would ever happen. This is a 0:08:10.480 --> 0:08:13.640 very sort of classic roum comm in so many ways, 0:08:13.760 --> 0:08:16.520 and the Julia Robert's part of it, at least I 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:18.800 was able to enjoy. Otherwise, it's not a great movie. 0:08:19.040 --> 0:08:20.920 Do not rush to see it in the theater. If 0:08:20.920 --> 0:08:22.480 you really want to watch it, watch it when it's 0:08:22.480 --> 0:08:24.680 eventually on streaming, and like a week and a half. 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:26.520 It's a great movie to stream because you can look 0:08:26.520 --> 0:08:28.360 at your phone for half the time and still have 0:08:28.480 --> 0:08:31.480 the exact same experience of the movie. Yes, speaking of 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:36.160 movies that are available to stream, Fran, you watched My Policeman, 0:08:36.280 --> 0:08:39.440 correct now that it's out on Amazon discussion Last week, 0:08:39.440 --> 0:08:42.560 I did. I did watch watch My Policeman. I thought 0:08:42.559 --> 0:08:46.000 it was perfectly fine, And I think the reason I 0:08:46.200 --> 0:08:50.800 enjoyed what I watched is in large part because unfortunately, 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:54.560 I am among the warm brained people that thinks that 0:08:54.640 --> 0:08:57.920 Harry Styles is really gorgeous and cute and adorable, and 0:08:58.160 --> 0:09:01.120 like I will watch him do anything, um even when 0:09:01.240 --> 0:09:05.000 he is very attractive. He's very attractive. But for me, 0:09:05.679 --> 0:09:09.640 I also, as I said last week, I really liked 0:09:09.720 --> 0:09:12.439 the movie and I went into it expecting to hate 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:17.480 it or at least just like be totally me about it. Um, 0:09:17.480 --> 0:09:19.440 But I really liked it. I think it's a very 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:23.880 well made film first and foremost it was especially considering 0:09:23.920 --> 0:09:25.959 the sourceman too. I think it's a very good adaptation, 0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:28.360 even though you've never read the book. To me though, 0:09:28.600 --> 0:09:31.720 like Harry wasn't the thing about it that made it 0:09:31.760 --> 0:09:33.960 work for me, But I do think he was good 0:09:33.960 --> 0:09:37.200 in it. Wait, actually that's so okay. So here's what 0:09:37.240 --> 0:09:41.000 I'll clarify. That is actually so true, Like Harry doesn't 0:09:41.040 --> 0:09:44.920 make the movie. That actor could actually be anyone, and like, well, 0:09:45.000 --> 0:09:50.440 I think that's because the character almost doesn't exist. So 0:09:50.840 --> 0:09:54.120 this film is actually about a woman who falls in 0:09:54.200 --> 0:09:57.440 love with a policeman who is gay, is in a 0:09:57.480 --> 0:10:02.040 relationship with a man who you know, runs an art museum, 0:10:02.200 --> 0:10:05.520 and they have this like very intense affair. The woman 0:10:05.559 --> 0:10:07.800 finds out the gay guy, goes to jail, and then 0:10:07.840 --> 0:10:11.559 there's this framing device of years later, the lover has 0:10:11.640 --> 0:10:14.240 had a stroke. The woman brings him into the home 0:10:14.320 --> 0:10:18.280 because she feels guilty. The husband policeman wants nothing to 0:10:18.360 --> 0:10:20.640 do with him. Blah blah blah. But what I wanted 0:10:20.679 --> 0:10:23.280 to say is that I think that Harry's character is 0:10:23.320 --> 0:10:26.440 almost like a cipher in a way, in that I 0:10:26.480 --> 0:10:29.880 don't really understand why these two people love him so 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:32.560 much that they're willing to go through all this pain 0:10:32.720 --> 0:10:36.400 for him, And I feel like that almost is the 0:10:36.480 --> 0:10:39.360 reason why he has to be played by someone like 0:10:39.400 --> 0:10:44.880 Harry Styles, because you you need that shortcut of like, oh, 0:10:45.160 --> 0:10:47.600 this is one of the most famous people in the world. 0:10:48.000 --> 0:10:50.439 Of course these people are like so madly in love 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:53.160 with him, when in fact, like he's like a vessel 0:10:53.240 --> 0:10:55.960 for them both to pour their love into. Maryan because 0:10:56.000 --> 0:10:59.200 she like is a young woman who just wants to 0:10:59.240 --> 0:11:00.720 fall in love and here is a guy who like 0:11:01.040 --> 0:11:04.240 treats her very nicely and like is sensitive blah blah blah. 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:10.480 And then for Patrick, it's like he is a gay 0:11:10.480 --> 0:11:13.240 man in the fifties and his like opportunities to find 0:11:13.240 --> 0:11:16.960 someone to like love in this like small town seemed 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:19.760 to be like few and far between, and like you 0:11:19.760 --> 0:11:21.520 find out he has a lover who's died, and so 0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:24.840 like the first chance he has to like love someone, 0:11:25.520 --> 0:11:29.120 he takes it, and like it almost doesn't matter who 0:11:29.160 --> 0:11:32.440 that person is for either of them, and yet he 0:11:32.720 --> 0:11:36.240 wrecks both of their lives. Yeah, and they wreck each 0:11:36.280 --> 0:11:38.880 other's lives. Yeah. And actually, you you're kind of pointing 0:11:38.880 --> 0:11:41.080 out something that I kept thinking about that he really 0:11:41.120 --> 0:11:44.199 he's almost like an imaginary friend. Like he's almost like 0:11:44.240 --> 0:11:49.720 he's kind of like if the whole movie feels very epistolatory, right, 0:11:49.800 --> 0:11:53.959 she she's reading through the lover's diaries, and I think 0:11:54.000 --> 0:11:57.080 that's how the book is. Yeah, I could have guessed 0:11:57.080 --> 0:12:00.080 as much, you know, like Virgin's. Also, please note, this 0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:04.600 is not a really a romance. It's a drama, Okay. 0:12:04.880 --> 0:12:07.760 That is it is a sad gay period draw. Yeah, 0:12:07.760 --> 0:12:11.320 and it's honestly there are three protagonists. Okay. So in 0:12:11.360 --> 0:12:15.080 a lot of ways, I really think this is Patrick's movie, 0:12:15.880 --> 0:12:18.000 and I think there's a couple of things that are 0:12:18.040 --> 0:12:20.040 like at war with that. Like I think in the 0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:22.640 way that this movie is being marketed it's Harry's movie. 0:12:23.240 --> 0:12:27.840 In the way that I, at least as um as 0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:32.439 a viewer, experienced it, it is Patrick's movie. And then 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:36.600 I think the framing of it is Marian's movie, which 0:12:36.640 --> 0:12:40.040 I think is part of the problem because she does 0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:44.960 something truly horrible and gets away with it In a way, 0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:48.200 and we're sort of like asked by the film to 0:12:48.520 --> 0:12:52.760 forgive her and see the if she's lived as this 0:12:52.840 --> 0:12:57.120 man's beard as like a fair trade for the truly 0:12:57.160 --> 0:13:00.480 awful thing that she did, and I I just like 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:05.880 don't accept that. Like she outd someone and had him 0:13:05.960 --> 0:13:11.160 sent to prison where he was brutalized, And this is 0:13:11.200 --> 0:13:13.040 kind of where we start talking about I think, like 0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:17.360 this whole genre of sad gay period films, Like what 0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:23.080 I didn't understand is what happened in the forty years 0:13:23.120 --> 0:13:27.320 between when Patrick was in prison and when he has 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:29.840 the stroke and comes to live with them, Because like 0:13:30.320 --> 0:13:33.560 that's where I think the fatal flaw of this film, 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:37.240 and I'm sure the book that it's based on really is, 0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:41.000 is that are we supposed to believe that he had 0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:44.479 no other opportunity in his life to find a fulfilling 0:13:44.679 --> 0:13:48.440 romantic relationship in those forty years he was just out 0:13:48.480 --> 0:13:51.000 there waiting to have a stroke and be sent back 0:13:51.080 --> 0:13:54.480 to his lover who abandoned him and the woman who 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:57.960 sent him to prison. Like why does this queer character's 0:13:57.960 --> 0:14:01.160 whole life have to revolve around this extremely painful thing 0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:04.680 that happened to him? That is I think the failing 0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:09.319 of the story as it was written by Bethan Roberts 0:14:09.360 --> 0:14:13.120 in the novel, Like there's no imagination that this person 0:14:13.160 --> 0:14:16.880 could have gone off after this terrible experience and you know, 0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:20.400 lived any kind of fulfilling life. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, 0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:23.280 I agree with everything you're saying to an extent, and 0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:27.480 like the kind of sad gay period drama has, like 0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:30.520 we've it's been explored, right, Like I don't want to 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:33.560 be we need it anymore, Like I think we'll always 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:35.800 need it, But like that that's why you I just 0:14:35.880 --> 0:14:38.080 think that the people who made this film should have 0:14:38.120 --> 0:14:41.400 been more selective about the source material they were adapting. 0:14:41.480 --> 0:14:44.320 Like I would never read this book and be like, yeah, 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:48.800 this is the gay story we gotta tell on screen. 0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:54.440 Like there are like so many different period dramas past 0:14:54.560 --> 0:14:57.680 and present to adapt from literary source material, hundreds and 0:14:57.800 --> 0:15:00.440 hundreds of stories that you could pick from, and you're like, 0:15:00.600 --> 0:15:06.200 I'm gonna do this one about the policeman. All I 0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:09.600 think I think it was a big publishing sensations. Of 0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:12.200 course that's a reason. And then if I if I'm 0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:17.040 being generous, I think probably the way that you could 0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:19.840 think about it is like, well, okay, we're graduating to 0:15:19.920 --> 0:15:23.800 at least a sad gay period drama that ends on 0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:28.880 a hopeful note because spoiler alert, it ends with Marian 0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:33.200 leaving and Tom and Patrick seemingly you know, like finding 0:15:33.200 --> 0:15:37.960 their way back to each other. Which no, but but 0:15:37.960 --> 0:15:41.600 but what I'm saying is that I think we understand 0:15:41.680 --> 0:15:44.400 that Hollywood is fucked up and that for a long time, 0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:48.000 the only way that queer stories have been allowed to 0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:51.880 exist in media is if queer people were punished at 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:53.960 the end of them. That's you know, like the legacy 0:15:53.960 --> 0:15:56.200 of the Hayze Code. But what I'm saying is like, 0:15:56.360 --> 0:16:00.760 if I'm thinking with my like Hollywood hat on, it's like, well, okay, 0:16:00.840 --> 0:16:02.880 we're going to keep making sad gay period dramas, but 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:05.360 will at least let them be like kind of happy 0:16:05.400 --> 0:16:07.960 at the end, you know. I mean, I don't think 0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:11.040 it's a progression, but I do appreciate you giving credit 0:16:11.160 --> 0:16:13.640 to this story and like what it could what it 0:16:13.760 --> 0:16:18.560 could potentially offer the canon of like sad asked period dramas. 0:16:18.560 --> 0:16:23.440 But to me, your wife of however many years, saying hey, 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:26.840 it was me who fucked up your life and fucked 0:16:26.920 --> 0:16:30.280 up the life of your lover um ages and ages ago. 0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:33.480 Oh by the way, by I'm abandoning you with your 0:16:33.480 --> 0:16:35.920 ex lover, fuck you, and your ex lover is also 0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:39.600 catatonic and can can't even speak anymore, and you have 0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:42.480 to take care of him. That's not really a happy 0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:45.720 ending to me. So it's not like or in any degree, 0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:48.640 like in any form of progress and so like, and 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:51.080 so you know, I just like thought that the movie 0:16:51.240 --> 0:16:56.440 was like very indulgent in melodramatic sadness. And that's okay too, 0:16:56.480 --> 0:16:59.640 Like we it's okay to have sad movies. It's okay 0:16:59.640 --> 0:17:02.240 to have sad gay movies. But like, just as I 0:17:02.320 --> 0:17:05.679 said before, like it's not really adding anything to the cannon. 0:17:05.800 --> 0:17:08.600 And so like when we look at the broke back 0:17:08.720 --> 0:17:12.879 Mountains of the world, right, even something like Call Me 0:17:12.920 --> 0:17:17.560 by Your Name or Carol or other period dramas that 0:17:17.600 --> 0:17:20.920 are like in the same breath of like gay dramas 0:17:21.000 --> 0:17:25.080 that we see as oscar Bite, Like all of these 0:17:25.160 --> 0:17:29.840 movies are beholden to their period, and therefore they have 0:17:29.960 --> 0:17:33.719 to like reconcile their straight relationship in order to have 0:17:33.920 --> 0:17:37.280 their romance. And I would just love for queer romance 0:17:37.359 --> 0:17:41.280 on screen to be up against something instead of in 0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:47.119 spite of something, and like this true like wife archetype. 0:17:47.320 --> 0:17:50.440 We've seen this already. We've seen Michelle Williams do this, 0:17:50.520 --> 0:17:53.880 and and and Hathaway or whatever. We've seen like Alicia 0:17:53.920 --> 0:17:55.879 vik Candor do it. We've seen like so many different 0:17:56.000 --> 0:17:59.800 versions of this story where the queer person is some 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:03.640 thing to deal with. Their queerness is something to deal with, 0:18:03.840 --> 0:18:08.320 something to circumnavigate. It is an obstruction of the plot, 0:18:08.680 --> 0:18:12.639 and we, as the avatar of of the film, as 0:18:12.680 --> 0:18:15.800 the audience of the film, are working around that, right, 0:18:15.840 --> 0:18:18.480 and like I'm just over it. I'm like I really am. 0:18:18.520 --> 0:18:20.639 I'm being like so like kind of spicy about it, 0:18:20.680 --> 0:18:23.359 like I'm actually not that passion. I think it's I 0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:26.400 think it's very fair to have that critique and and 0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:30.919 it has been great to see in recent years, especially 0:18:31.080 --> 0:18:35.320 period pieces that have queerness in them, that don't treat 0:18:35.359 --> 0:18:38.880 queerness as an obstacle. Like for some reason this had 0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:42.280 me thinking of our Flag means Death, which does this 0:18:42.359 --> 0:18:45.240 thing that a lot of contemporary period pieces are doing, 0:18:45.280 --> 0:18:49.800 which is that they include marginalized actors and characters and 0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:53.760 stories about them. But like there are some things that 0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:56.119 do it, like Britain, in which like they just create 0:18:56.160 --> 0:18:59.520 this sort of like race utopia, and then in things 0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:02.280 like Our Flag Means Death, like there still is the 0:19:02.320 --> 0:19:09.040 acknowledgement of the historical context, but the periodtypical homophobia isn't 0:19:09.119 --> 0:19:13.440 used as an obstacle. It's the plot that is the obstacle. 0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:16.000 And like I was just thinking about how at the 0:19:16.480 --> 0:19:18.560 end of the first season of Our Flag Means Death, 0:19:18.560 --> 0:19:21.480 there's an episode where the main character Steed goes back 0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:25.320 to his wife, and his wife is not an obstacle 0:19:25.560 --> 0:19:29.000 in him being in a relationship with the man he's 0:19:29.040 --> 0:19:32.240 in love with. It's his own doubt that is the obstacle. 0:19:32.240 --> 0:19:35.520 And in fact, his wife like wants him to be 0:19:35.720 --> 0:19:37.840 dead and like be out of her life and like 0:19:38.280 --> 0:19:40.920 essensibly like would love him to be off having gay 0:19:41.000 --> 0:19:44.120 pirate adventures. Yeah, it's kind of why I really liked 0:19:44.160 --> 0:19:47.480 a leak of their own right, Like obviously the period 0:19:47.680 --> 0:19:50.920 was an obstacle frequently in the show, but like ultimately 0:19:50.960 --> 0:19:53.520 they're up against like baseball. They're playing baseball games, like 0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:57.000 there's something that they can focus all their energies on 0:19:57.080 --> 0:19:59.160 that is like the primary thing to that for them 0:19:59.160 --> 0:20:02.879 to get around, and their romance is one of the 0:20:02.920 --> 0:20:05.560 many mechanisms that is kind of like moving this thing along, 0:20:05.640 --> 0:20:07.720 and like that's just like what I want to see 0:20:07.840 --> 0:20:12.199 in like a futurity of like queer romance. And I 0:20:12.240 --> 0:20:19.120 obviously I feel um particularly cynical about ones that come 0:20:19.119 --> 0:20:22.520 out in this year of Our Lord two that are 0:20:22.600 --> 0:20:26.000 just doing the same thing that we've been doing since 0:20:26.080 --> 0:20:31.680 Broke Back Mountain. Like Harry is just doing something that 0:20:31.960 --> 0:20:36.760 every cisht celebrity does when their celebrity peaks and they're like, 0:20:37.160 --> 0:20:40.760 what's like the what is the next level of sisman 0:20:41.000 --> 0:20:44.760 celebrity stardom? Oh, I'm gonna play gay to get an 0:20:44.760 --> 0:20:48.640 oscar like and I and I don't I really personally 0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:53.600 don't feel like Harry Styles is as sinister as like 0:20:53.640 --> 0:20:55.520 a lot of people make him out to be on 0:20:55.600 --> 0:20:58.680 like the queer bating like front or whatever. But like 0:20:58.800 --> 0:21:02.600 this movie is so obviously a pr move for awards 0:21:02.640 --> 0:21:06.800 attention that also allows Harry and his team to benefit 0:21:06.920 --> 0:21:11.679 from what will be the debilitating horny nous that his 0:21:11.760 --> 0:21:15.520 fans experience watching this movie. Like like teen so there 0:21:15.560 --> 0:21:17.680 was I saw this movie in theaters and there was 0:21:17.720 --> 0:21:20.840 a group of Harry Styles fans sitting sitting in my 0:21:20.960 --> 0:21:24.200 row and they were very excited about mean girls going 0:21:24.240 --> 0:21:27.600 to go watch like a gay erotic barely I mean 0:21:27.640 --> 0:21:29.480 it's not that erotic, but like a kind of gay 0:21:29.480 --> 0:21:32.480 erotic where like Harry Styles is like the centerpiece of 0:21:32.720 --> 0:21:35.960 like they are in a sedentary state of hormones. Like 0:21:36.480 --> 0:21:39.119 like that is all Harry Styles team is doing is 0:21:39.160 --> 0:21:45.160 like bombarding them, in undating fans with the horniest, most 0:21:45.240 --> 0:21:50.359 erotic possible Harry isms to make them into like just 0:21:50.680 --> 0:21:54.600 completely subjugated sedentary states. That so that like these fans 0:21:54.640 --> 0:21:57.040 can do whatever they want them to do. And I 0:21:57.040 --> 0:21:59.240 don't know, that to me is like a little sinister. 0:21:59.520 --> 0:22:01.359 I don't know. I think. I think when it comes 0:22:01.359 --> 0:22:03.920 down to for me is that this is a very 0:22:03.960 --> 0:22:07.679 flawed trope. This is a very flawed thing that we 0:22:07.760 --> 0:22:11.119 see again and again being made the sad gay period 0:22:11.160 --> 0:22:15.520 drama But but the movie but but But at least 0:22:15.720 --> 0:22:19.359 I think this, if it has to exist, it was 0:22:19.480 --> 0:22:23.760 made very well. Like one of the most effective scenes 0:22:23.840 --> 0:22:26.600 for me was when the older Tom and Marion go 0:22:26.720 --> 0:22:29.880 to the grocery store and they see the caregiver there 0:22:29.960 --> 0:22:34.000 with his boyfriend and Tom goes into his car and 0:22:34.080 --> 0:22:37.920 breaks down because he sees, you know, the progress that's 0:22:37.960 --> 0:22:40.600 been made, the life he could have lived, and like, yes, 0:22:40.840 --> 0:22:44.240 it's like more trauma porn, but it was one of 0:22:44.280 --> 0:22:47.240 the most emotionally effective moments for me. I mean, in 0:22:47.240 --> 0:22:49.000 the words of Harry Steles, it was a movie that 0:22:49.040 --> 0:22:51.280 felt like a movie. It was a movie that felt 0:22:51.280 --> 0:23:09.720 like a movie. For sure. I have at many points 0:23:09.720 --> 0:23:11.880 in my life been involved in what I would say 0:23:11.920 --> 0:23:16.040 are sort of you know, like counter cultural movements. I 0:23:16.119 --> 0:23:21.159 have always been kind of like a punk girlly, you know. 0:23:21.960 --> 0:23:25.000 But I think it's interesting how at certain times in 0:23:25.040 --> 0:23:31.160 pop culture those subcultures have almost become the monoculture exactly. 0:23:31.200 --> 0:23:33.800 And I don't think there's any better example of that 0:23:33.960 --> 0:23:38.080 than Indi Sleas. Yes, the movement of what's the era, 0:23:38.160 --> 0:23:41.440