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Speaker 1: I also feel like Harry put his whole person, put

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Speaker 1: his whole put Harry put his whole Harressy into it.

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Speaker 1: Today we are doing essentially the podcast version of reblogging.

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Speaker 1: We are going to be looking back at um Indeed

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Speaker 1: Sleeve's archive, if you will. Yes, we are going back

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Speaker 1: into our tumblers, which I mean no longer exists mine

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Speaker 1: at least don't have been scrubbed from the Internet. And

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Speaker 1: we are going to talk about what is Inde sleeves um,

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Speaker 1: the aesthetics and media that exemplified it, how it, you know,

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Speaker 1: was bread and spread on tumbler, and how it's returning

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Speaker 1: today and maybe a slightly different form because this is

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Speaker 1: like a virgin the show where we give yesterday's pop

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Speaker 1: culture today's tapes, Timber's dam you and I'm Fran Toronto.

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Speaker 1: So you know, brush off your Shin's record, put on

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Speaker 1: put on your Santy gold T shirt. I loves. I

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Speaker 1: forgot to talk about that. I loved well, I guess

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Speaker 1: the Shins. Also, Shin's is like early because you know,

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Speaker 1: the first time I heard the Shins was in Garden State. Obviously.

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Speaker 1: Wait wait wait wait wait wait okay, okay, okay, wait,

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Speaker 1: maybe we should we talk about the gardens. No, the

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Speaker 1: Garden States, Like two thousand four, it was pre eminent, Yes,

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Speaker 1: devastating news. Today, I believe I have seen my last

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Speaker 1: movie as an AMC STUBBORNSTA. You are officially canceling your

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Speaker 1: membership when you moved to New York. Is that what's happening?

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Speaker 1: You're a band abandoning our principle. I'm in the wake.

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Speaker 1: It's not like I can just drive over to the Grove,

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Speaker 1: or drive over to AMC Sunset five, or drive over

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Speaker 1: to Universal CityWalk slash Marguerita Villamporium and see a movie.

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Speaker 1: But if there was a way to go, I'm glad

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Speaker 1: it was seeing Ticket to Parents. Where are you glad? Though?

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Speaker 1: How did you feel when we locked out of this

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Speaker 1: movie together? Um? I did have a really good time,

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Speaker 1: even though it's not a good movie. Okay, if you

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Speaker 1: had a really good time, name one thing that happened

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Speaker 1: in the movie that you enjoyed that you remember. Julia Roberts.

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Speaker 1: No, no no, no, no, no, no, no no, no no no, no,

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Speaker 1: specifically no, that is the specific thing I enjoyed. Julia

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Speaker 1: Roberts because she is the last movie star and has

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Speaker 1: endless charisma and every time she was on screen, I

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Speaker 1: was having fun, even in a bad movie like like

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Speaker 1: notting Hill, which I watched for the first time and

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Speaker 1: since it first came out recently and it's not a

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Speaker 1: good movie. But Julia Roberts well, I mean in that movie,

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Speaker 1: she at least has Hugh Grant to work with um

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Speaker 1: And in this movie, I think George Clooney was not

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Speaker 1: the best scene partner for her. But Julie Roberts, anytime

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Speaker 1: she was on screen, I was happy to be there. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, obviously their star power is like gonna get

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Speaker 1: you know, butts into seats in that theater. I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of like the appeal obviously is just like

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Speaker 1: us waiting for Julia Roberts to like laugh like that

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Speaker 1: honestly totally for me. Her huge amounts. And the thing

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Speaker 1: is she her character is like a bitch in this

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Speaker 1: which I love, Like I love Julia in an era

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Speaker 1: where she gets to be a kind of like mean

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Speaker 1: or uptight character, but she doesn't as a character laugh

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Speaker 1: until like halfway through the movie, Like we're not really

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Speaker 1: satiated until like far into the movie where she finally

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Speaker 1: cracks and she has like a little bit of like

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Speaker 1: joy in her character because they know the power of

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Speaker 1: of her laugh and the power of the power of

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Speaker 1: going to Bali And and discovering yourself. Honestly, like this

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Speaker 1: wascovery because for anyone, for anyone who hasn't seen the trailer,

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Speaker 1: in which basically the whole movie story of the film

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Speaker 1: is given away. It's about Julia Roberts and George Clooney,

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Speaker 1: who like fell in love very young, had a child,

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Speaker 1: were married for five years, had an extremely bitter divorce,

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Speaker 1: and then have to come back together when their daughter,

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Speaker 1: after graduating from college, decides to get married and Bali

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Speaker 1: and moved there Forever and their daughters played by Caitlin

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Speaker 1: Deaver from Book Smart, and she was great in Book

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Speaker 1: Smart and was really bad in this, mostly because I

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Speaker 1: think she didn't have a character. Her only character trait

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Speaker 1: was that she wore the same pair of thin gold

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Speaker 1: hoops in every scene. They looked like they were from

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Speaker 1: Forever twenty one, and it just was such a weird

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Speaker 1: styling choice and was extremely distracting for me. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I think the movie could have been much better if

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Speaker 1: either um there were a lot more parallels between Julia

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Speaker 1: and George's problems and the couple's problems so that you

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Speaker 1: were more invested in them, and like it used the

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Speaker 1: language of film to tell both stories simultaneously, or if

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Speaker 1: they had just kind of cut the young people entirely

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Speaker 1: and it was just Julia and George. Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I just feel that there could have been more parallels

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Speaker 1: between Julia Roberts character in this movie and Julia Roberts

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Speaker 1: character in a Prey Love where she also goes to Molly. Um.

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Speaker 1: Really this by herself though? Yeah, but the thing is

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Speaker 1: maybe on a journey of self. This really could have

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Speaker 1: been a sequel. This maybe this is a sequel. Maybe

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Speaker 1: this is the end of Elizabeth Gilbert's life after e

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Speaker 1: Pray Love has happened and she is descending on Bolly

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Speaker 1: to what is it her her the girl's fiance as

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Speaker 1: a seaweed farmer. What the fuck? He has a seweed

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Speaker 1: farmer who has a who has recently inked to deal

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Speaker 1: with Wait, that's actually real virgins, that's real. That is

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Speaker 1: an actual line, That an actual point. He has also

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Speaker 1: with whole foods. So his seaweed farm is and okay

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Speaker 1: wait wait it's it's legitimized. And there's that when the

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Speaker 1: when his home is introduced, this is a literal seaweed farmer.

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Speaker 1: She wakes up and and she is in a resort.

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Speaker 1: She is in a five star resort that is revealed

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Speaker 1: to be the kind you see on TikTok where like

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Speaker 1: you sit up in bed and the oceans oceans in

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Speaker 1: front of you, like try our birds chirping, and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I'm like what this is a seaweed farmer. And that's

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Speaker 1: when he says, oh yeah, Jeff Bezos is lying in

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Speaker 1: the coffers of like I'm just fill in cash like

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Speaker 1: around like my map whatever. I'm just like So it

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Speaker 1: was so funny. It was just a bizarre script. It

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Speaker 1: was very bizarre. Also, Caitlin Diaver's bestie is played by

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Speaker 1: Billy Lord of American Horror Story Fame, and there's this

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Speaker 1: one scene where she she's like a crazy party girl,

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Speaker 1: like none none of the jokes about her land, but

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Speaker 1: the people in the theater were loving her. But there's

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Speaker 1: a scene where she George Clooney is like at the

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Speaker 1: bar at the hotel at night because he can't sleep

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Speaker 1: and he's having a drink and Kaylin Deaver comes up

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Speaker 1: to him. I'm like, Oh, great, they're gonna fuck. But

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Speaker 1: then he starts telling this like sad story about how

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Speaker 1: he and Julia Roberts broke up because their house burned down,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, did Julia Roberts Sadden on fire? Like

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Speaker 1: I don't get where this is going? But then the

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Speaker 1: scene ends without them fucking, and I'm just like, no,

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Speaker 1: but like, in the in the world of who you're

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Speaker 1: telling me these characters are, they would have and we

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Speaker 1: never learned more about the fire. It's so disorienting and

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Speaker 1: also just like but yeah, totally, it felt a lot

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Speaker 1: like them fucking was in the original script and they

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Speaker 1: cut it for like decent. No, it was never. It

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Speaker 1: was never What is the point of that scene? Then

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Speaker 1: they're like at a bar because because George has to

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Speaker 1: expose himself emotionally and like it's literally just there so

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Speaker 1: that he reveals that he actually loved him when she

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Speaker 1: like she like slithers up to him like she is

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Speaker 1: ready to fund Maybe it's just like the energy that

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Speaker 1: maybe she kind of and it's projecting. It's us projecting,

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Speaker 1: you would want totoing. I think that we were projected. Well,

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Speaker 1: the vibe, the vibe was there, but that's not a

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Speaker 1: movie in which that would ever happen. This is a

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Speaker 1: very sort of classic roum comm in so many ways,

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Speaker 1: and the Julia Robert's part of it, at least I

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Speaker 1: was able to enjoy. Otherwise, it's not a great movie.

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Speaker 1: Do not rush to see it in the theater. If

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Speaker 1: you really want to watch it, watch it when it's

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Speaker 1: eventually on streaming, and like a week and a half.

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Speaker 1: It's a great movie to stream because you can look

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Speaker 1: at your phone for half the time and still have

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Speaker 1: the exact same experience of the movie. Yes, speaking of

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Speaker 1: movies that are available to stream, Fran, you watched My Policeman,

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Speaker 1: correct now that it's out on Amazon discussion Last week,

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Speaker 1: I did. I did watch watch My Policeman. I thought

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Speaker 1: it was perfectly fine, And I think the reason I

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Speaker 1: enjoyed what I watched is in large part because unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: I am among the warm brained people that thinks that

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Speaker 1: Harry Styles is really gorgeous and cute and adorable, and

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Speaker 1: like I will watch him do anything, um even when

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Speaker 1: he is very attractive. He's very attractive. But for me,

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Speaker 1: I also, as I said last week, I really liked

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Speaker 1: the movie and I went into it expecting to hate

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Speaker 1: it or at least just like be totally me about it. Um,

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Speaker 1: But I really liked it. I think it's a very

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Speaker 1: well made film first and foremost it was especially considering

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Speaker 1: the sourceman too. I think it's a very good adaptation,

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Speaker 1: even though you've never read the book. To me though,

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Speaker 1: like Harry wasn't the thing about it that made it

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Speaker 1: work for me, But I do think he was good

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Speaker 1: in it. Wait, actually that's so okay. So here's what

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Speaker 1: I'll clarify. That is actually so true, Like Harry doesn't

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Speaker 1: make the movie. That actor could actually be anyone, and like, well,

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Speaker 1: I think that's because the character almost doesn't exist. So

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Speaker 1: this film is actually about a woman who falls in

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Speaker 1: love with a policeman who is gay, is in a

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Speaker 1: relationship with a man who you know, runs an art museum,

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Speaker 1: and they have this like very intense affair. The woman

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Speaker 1: finds out the gay guy, goes to jail, and then

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Speaker 1: there's this framing device of years later, the lover has

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Speaker 1: had a stroke. The woman brings him into the home

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Speaker 1: because she feels guilty. The husband policeman wants nothing to

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Speaker 1: do with him. Blah blah blah. But what I wanted

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Speaker 1: to say is that I think that Harry's character is

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Speaker 1: almost like a cipher in a way, in that I

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Speaker 1: don't really understand why these two people love him so

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Speaker 1: much that they're willing to go through all this pain

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Speaker 1: for him, And I feel like that almost is the

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Speaker 1: reason why he has to be played by someone like

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Speaker 1: Harry Styles, because you you need that shortcut of like, oh,

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Speaker 1: this is one of the most famous people in the world.

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Speaker 1: Of course these people are like so madly in love

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Speaker 1: with him, when in fact, like he's like a vessel

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Speaker 1: for them both to pour their love into. Maryan because

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Speaker 1: she like is a young woman who just wants to

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Speaker 1: fall in love and here is a guy who like

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Speaker 1: treats her very nicely and like is sensitive blah blah blah.

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Speaker 1: And then for Patrick, it's like he is a gay

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Speaker 1: man in the fifties and his like opportunities to find

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Speaker 1: someone to like love in this like small town seemed

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Speaker 1: to be like few and far between, and like you

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Speaker 1: find out he has a lover who's died, and so

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Speaker 1: like the first chance he has to like love someone,

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Speaker 1: he takes it, and like it almost doesn't matter who

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Speaker 1: that person is for either of them, and yet he

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Speaker 1: wrecks both of their lives. Yeah, and they wreck each

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Speaker 1: other's lives. Yeah. And actually, you you're kind of pointing

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Speaker 1: out something that I kept thinking about that he really

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Speaker 1: he's almost like an imaginary friend. Like he's almost like

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Speaker 1: he's kind of like if the whole movie feels very epistolatory, right,

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Speaker 1: she she's reading through the lover's diaries, and I think

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Speaker 1: that's how the book is. Yeah, I could have guessed

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Speaker 1: as much, you know, like Virgin's. Also, please note, this

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Speaker 1: is not a really a romance. It's a drama, Okay.

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Speaker 1: That is it is a sad gay period draw. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it's honestly there are three protagonists. Okay. So in

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Speaker 1: a lot of ways, I really think this is Patrick's movie,

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Speaker 1: and I think there's a couple of things that are

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Speaker 1: like at war with that. Like I think in the

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Speaker 1: way that this movie is being marketed it's Harry's movie.

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Speaker 1: In the way that I, at least as um as

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Speaker 1: a viewer, experienced it, it is Patrick's movie. And then

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Speaker 1: I think the framing of it is Marian's movie, which

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Speaker 1: I think is part of the problem because she does

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Speaker 1: something truly horrible and gets away with it In a way,

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Speaker 1: and we're sort of like asked by the film to

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Speaker 1: forgive her and see the if she's lived as this

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Speaker 1: man's beard as like a fair trade for the truly

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Speaker 1: awful thing that she did, and I I just like

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Speaker 1: don't accept that. Like she outd someone and had him

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Speaker 1: sent to prison where he was brutalized, And this is

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Speaker 1: kind of where we start talking about I think, like

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Speaker 1: this whole genre of sad gay period films, Like what

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Speaker 1: I didn't understand is what happened in the forty years

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Speaker 1: between when Patrick was in prison and when he has

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Speaker 1: the stroke and comes to live with them, Because like

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Speaker 1: that's where I think the fatal flaw of this film,

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Speaker 1: and I'm sure the book that it's based on really is,

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Speaker 1: is that are we supposed to believe that he had

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Speaker 1: no other opportunity in his life to find a fulfilling

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Speaker 1: romantic relationship in those forty years he was just out

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Speaker 1: there waiting to have a stroke and be sent back

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Speaker 1: to his lover who abandoned him and the woman who

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Speaker 1: sent him to prison. Like why does this queer character's

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Speaker 1: whole life have to revolve around this extremely painful thing

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Speaker 1: that happened to him? That is I think the failing

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Speaker 1: of the story as it was written by Bethan Roberts

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Speaker 1: in the novel, Like there's no imagination that this person

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Speaker 1: could have gone off after this terrible experience and you know,

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Speaker 1: lived any kind of fulfilling life. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I agree with everything you're saying to an extent, and

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Speaker 1: like the kind of sad gay period drama has, like

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Speaker 1: we've it's been explored, right, Like I don't want to

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Speaker 1: be we need it anymore, Like I think we'll always

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Speaker 1: need it, But like that that's why you I just

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Speaker 1: think that the people who made this film should have

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Speaker 1: been more selective about the source material they were adapting.

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Speaker 1: Like I would never read this book and be like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is the gay story we gotta tell on screen.

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Speaker 1: Like there are like so many different period dramas past

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Speaker 1: and present to adapt from literary source material, hundreds and

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Speaker 1: hundreds of stories that you could pick from, and you're like,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna do this one about the policeman. All I

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Speaker 1: think I think it was a big publishing sensations. Of

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Speaker 1: course that's a reason. And then if I if I'm

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Speaker 1: being generous, I think probably the way that you could

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Speaker 1: think about it is like, well, okay, we're graduating to

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Speaker 1: at least a sad gay period drama that ends on

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Speaker 1: a hopeful note because spoiler alert, it ends with Marian

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Speaker 1: leaving and Tom and Patrick seemingly you know, like finding

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Speaker 1: their way back to each other. Which no, but but

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Speaker 1: but what I'm saying is that I think we understand

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Speaker 1: that Hollywood is fucked up and that for a long time,

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Speaker 1: the only way that queer stories have been allowed to

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Speaker 1: exist in media is if queer people were punished at

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Speaker 1: the end of them. That's you know, like the legacy

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Speaker 1: of the Hayze Code. But what I'm saying is like,

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Speaker 1: if I'm thinking with my like Hollywood hat on, it's like, well, okay,

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Speaker 1: we're going to keep making sad gay period dramas, but

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Speaker 1: will at least let them be like kind of happy

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Speaker 1: at the end, you know. I mean, I don't think

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Speaker 1: it's a progression, but I do appreciate you giving credit

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Speaker 1: to this story and like what it could what it

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Speaker 1: could potentially offer the canon of like sad asked period dramas.

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Speaker 1: But to me, your wife of however many years, saying hey,

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Speaker 1: it was me who fucked up your life and fucked

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Speaker 1: up the life of your lover um ages and ages ago.

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Speaker 1: Oh by the way, by I'm abandoning you with your

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Speaker 1: ex lover, fuck you, and your ex lover is also

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Speaker 1: catatonic and can can't even speak anymore, and you have

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Speaker 1: to take care of him. That's not really a happy

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Speaker 1: ending to me. So it's not like or in any degree,

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Speaker 1: like in any form of progress and so like, and

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Speaker 1: so you know, I just like thought that the movie

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Speaker 1: was like very indulgent in melodramatic sadness. And that's okay too,

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Speaker 1: Like we it's okay to have sad movies. It's okay

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Speaker 1: to have sad gay movies. But like, just as I

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Speaker 1: said before, like it's not really adding anything to the cannon.

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Speaker 1: And so like when we look at the broke back

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Speaker 1: Mountains of the world, right, even something like Call Me

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Speaker 1: by Your Name or Carol or other period dramas that

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Speaker 1: are like in the same breath of like gay dramas

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Speaker 1: that we see as oscar Bite, Like all of these

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Speaker 1: movies are beholden to their period, and therefore they have

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Speaker 1: to like reconcile their straight relationship in order to have

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Speaker 1: their romance. And I would just love for queer romance

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Speaker 1: on screen to be up against something instead of in

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Speaker 1: spite of something, and like this true like wife archetype.

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Speaker 1: We've seen this already. We've seen Michelle Williams do this,

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Speaker 1: and and and Hathaway or whatever. We've seen like Alicia

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Speaker 1: vik Candor do it. We've seen like so many different

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Speaker 1: versions of this story where the queer person is some

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Speaker 1: thing to deal with. Their queerness is something to deal with,

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Speaker 1: something to circumnavigate. It is an obstruction of the plot,

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Speaker 1: and we, as the avatar of of the film, as

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Speaker 1: the audience of the film, are working around that, right,

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Speaker 1: and like I'm just over it. I'm like I really am.

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Speaker 1: I'm being like so like kind of spicy about it,

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Speaker 1: like I'm actually not that passion. I think it's I

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Speaker 1: think it's very fair to have that critique and and

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Speaker 1: it has been great to see in recent years, especially

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Speaker 1: period pieces that have queerness in them, that don't treat

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Speaker 1: queerness as an obstacle. Like for some reason this had

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Speaker 1: me thinking of our Flag means Death, which does this

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Speaker 1: thing that a lot of contemporary period pieces are doing,

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Speaker 1: which is that they include marginalized actors and characters and

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Speaker 1: stories about them. But like there are some things that

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Speaker 1: do it, like Britain, in which like they just create

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Speaker 1: this sort of like race utopia, and then in things

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Speaker 1: like Our Flag Means Death, like there still is the

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Speaker 1: acknowledgement of the historical context, but the periodtypical homophobia isn't

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Speaker 1: used as an obstacle. It's the plot that is the obstacle.

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Speaker 1: And like I was just thinking about how at the

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Speaker 1: end of the first season of Our Flag Means Death,

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Speaker 1: there's an episode where the main character Steed goes back

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Speaker 1: to his wife, and his wife is not an obstacle

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Speaker 1: in him being in a relationship with the man he's

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Speaker 1: in love with. It's his own doubt that is the obstacle.

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Speaker 1: And in fact, his wife like wants him to be

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Speaker 1: dead and like be out of her life and like

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Speaker 1: essensibly like would love him to be off having gay

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Speaker 1: pirate adventures. Yeah, it's kind of why I really liked

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Speaker 1: a leak of their own right, Like obviously the period

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Speaker 1: was an obstacle frequently in the show, but like ultimately

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Speaker 1: they're up against like baseball. They're playing baseball games, like

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Speaker 1: there's something that they can focus all their energies on

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Speaker 1: that is like the primary thing to that for them

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Speaker 1: to get around, and their romance is one of the

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Speaker 1: many mechanisms that is kind of like moving this thing along,

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Speaker 1: and like that's just like what I want to see

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Speaker 1: in like a futurity of like queer romance. And I

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Speaker 1: obviously I feel um particularly cynical about ones that come

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Speaker 1: out in this year of Our Lord two that are

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Speaker 1: just doing the same thing that we've been doing since

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Speaker 1: Broke Back Mountain. Like Harry is just doing something that

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Speaker 1: every cisht celebrity does when their celebrity peaks and they're like,

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Speaker 1: what's like the what is the next level of sisman

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Speaker 1: celebrity stardom? Oh, I'm gonna play gay to get an

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Speaker 1: oscar like and I and I don't I really personally

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Speaker 1: don't feel like Harry Styles is as sinister as like

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Speaker 1: a lot of people make him out to be on

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Speaker 1: like the queer bating like front or whatever. But like

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Speaker 1: this movie is so obviously a pr move for awards

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Speaker 1: attention that also allows Harry and his team to benefit

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Speaker 1: from what will be the debilitating horny nous that his

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Speaker 1: fans experience watching this movie. Like like teen so there

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Speaker 1: was I saw this movie in theaters and there was

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Speaker 1: a group of Harry Styles fans sitting sitting in my

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Speaker 1: row and they were very excited about mean girls going

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Speaker 1: to go watch like a gay erotic barely I mean

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Speaker 1: it's not that erotic, but like a kind of gay

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Speaker 1: erotic where like Harry Styles is like the centerpiece of

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Speaker 1: like they are in a sedentary state of hormones. Like

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Speaker 1: like that is all Harry Styles team is doing is

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Speaker 1: like bombarding them, in undating fans with the horniest, most

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Speaker 1: erotic possible Harry isms to make them into like just

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Speaker 1: completely subjugated sedentary states. That so that like these fans

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Speaker 1: can do whatever they want them to do. And I

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Speaker 1: don't know, that to me is like a little sinister.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I think. I think when it comes

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Speaker 1: down to for me is that this is a very

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Speaker 1: flawed trope. This is a very flawed thing that we

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Speaker 1: see again and again being made the sad gay period

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Speaker 1: drama But but the movie but but But at least

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Speaker 1: I think this, if it has to exist, it was

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Speaker 1: made very well. Like one of the most effective scenes

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Speaker 1: for me was when the older Tom and Marion go

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Speaker 1: to the grocery store and they see the caregiver there

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Speaker 1: with his boyfriend and Tom goes into his car and

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Speaker 1: breaks down because he sees, you know, the progress that's

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Speaker 1: been made, the life he could have lived, and like, yes,

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Speaker 1: it's like more trauma porn, but it was one of

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Speaker 1: the most emotionally effective moments for me. I mean, in

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Speaker 1: the words of Harry Steles, it was a movie that

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Speaker 1: felt like a movie. It was a movie that felt

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Speaker 1: like a movie. For sure. I have at many points

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Speaker 1: in my life been involved in what I would say

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Speaker 1: are sort of you know, like counter cultural movements. I

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00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:21,159
Speaker 1: have always been kind of like a punk girlly, you know.

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Speaker 1: But I think it's interesting how at certain times in

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Speaker 1: pop culture those subcultures have almost become the monoculture exactly.

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Speaker 1: And I don't think there's any better example of that

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Speaker 1: than Indi Sleas. Yes, the movement of what's the era,

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Speaker 1: would you say, like twenty early Like I would say

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Speaker 1: maybe two thousand nine to two is like peak Indie Sleeves.

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Speaker 1: And I think a good way to start this is

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Speaker 1: to define what Indie Sleeves is, which will be you know, Harry,

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Speaker 1: but we're going to get into it together, you know. Yes,

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Speaker 1: Indie Sleeves is in attic It's a vibe it's um

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00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:06,760
Speaker 1: it's a punch line. It's a punchline. So the things

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Speaker 1: that sort of I would say typify it are um,

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Speaker 1: you know, grunge, low fi counter culture. But it's this

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Speaker 1: very specific counter culture that's through the lens of mass consumption.

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Speaker 1: It's counterculture that you can buy at the mall, or

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Speaker 1: at least that's what it evolved into. Right. You have

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Speaker 1: people that are on the ground floor of like Indie

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Speaker 1: Slee's movements that are you know, the real kind of

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Speaker 1: punk folks or low five folks who are popularizing things

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Speaker 1: like Indie Sleece music or any sleep aesthetic so that

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Speaker 1: they can be sold at urban outfitters, are American apparel UM.

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Speaker 1: And then as you say, that becomes mass culture, right,

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Speaker 1: it's like it's d I Y that became um bu.

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Speaker 1: Why it also, you know, Indie slee is because it

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Speaker 1: started in two thousand nine. It's very specifically this post

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Speaker 1: recession movement UM. And I believe the reason for that

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Speaker 1: is because, as we said, like it started as this

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Speaker 1: very d I Y aesthetics. So in the wake of

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Speaker 1: the Great Recession, no one had any money, so it

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Speaker 1: was this aesthetic that you could achieve with very little

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Speaker 1: money because it was all about, you know, repurposing the

428
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:30,440
Speaker 1: aesthetics of older eras. There was a lot of thrifting culture,

429
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 1: like digging out your parents old vinyl and their old clothes.

430
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 1: Rich people dressing poor, rich people dressing for But also

431
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 1: it was the recession, so it was a lot of

432
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,720
Speaker 1: rich people who were poor. For the first time. I'm

433
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 1: fascinated by the correlation between Indias and the recession, one

434
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 1: that I had never thought about until you brought it up.

435
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 1: Like it's all about money, baby, Like that's how everything happens.

436
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:57,639
Speaker 1: In case the virgins at home are still kind of

437
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:00,440
Speaker 1: confused by what we're describing, maybe you and I could

438
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 1: paint a picture of a quintessential Inde sleeves person, like

439
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 1: what they're wearing, what they're listening to, where they go,

440
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:10,239
Speaker 1: like just a little baseline, like simple pictures. Yes, So

441
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:11,919
Speaker 1: I think to do that, we have to say a

442
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:19,479
Speaker 1: dirty word. Because hipster the two are so inextricably linked.

443
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,440
Speaker 1: So when I think Indias, forget the word hipster. When

444
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:25,919
Speaker 1: I think India sleeves, I think of someone in a

445
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:31,359
Speaker 1: flannel shirt, yes, with those like black frame glasses or

446
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,639
Speaker 1: the like, the like Jeffrey Dahmer glasses. Okay, I'm seeing

447
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 1: I'm also seeing maybe an American apparel circle scarf and

448
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:42,399
Speaker 1: an American apparel v neck. Yes, that purple that was

449
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,680
Speaker 1: only sold an American apparel A deep V, deep V

450
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:48,120
Speaker 1: almost down to your belly. But okay, maybe they even

451
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 1: have an American apparel pleated skirt that they've distressed themselves.

452
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 1: And you know they had to buy two sizes up

453
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:58,359
Speaker 1: because American apparel is fatphobic. Yes, and they're obviously wearing

454
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 1: Um Chuck tail con is Chuck Taylor. They're holding Um

455
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 1: Doc Martin's, but like Chuck Taylor's, they're holding a coffee

456
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:10,679
Speaker 1: table book of Terry Richardson's photography and the specifically the

457
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 1: Lady Gaga. Oh my god, I forgot about there. I know.

458
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,879
Speaker 1: I discovered recently that my brother still owns it, and

459
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,160
Speaker 1: I didn't say anything to him. And Jeffrey, if you're

460
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:23,359
Speaker 1: listening to this podcast, Terry Richardson is canceled. Look, we

461
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,680
Speaker 1: all know that Terry Richardson's canceled. But one thing we have, like,

462
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 1: let me tell you the aesthetic that Terry created, um

463
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 1: like with his photography, we just you know, plagiarize over

464
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 1: and over again and erase, erase his work in Life Forever,

465
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 1: which is lovely. Like, I'm glad that we have just

466
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 1: kind of taken his aesthetic and made it into like nothing.

467
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 1: And that is, you know, more than I think almost

468
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:52,920
Speaker 1: anything what has survived from Indy Sleeves. And later in

469
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,440
Speaker 1: an episode we'll talk about the Indy Sleeves revival that's

470
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:59,120
Speaker 1: currently happening. But I think more than anything, um, Indy

471
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:04,359
Speaker 1: Sleeves is remembered as an aesthetic. Um. It's also I

472
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:06,680
Speaker 1: mean that we talked about the Terry richardson so it's

473
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 1: like the flash photography party photos with water marks on them.

474
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 1: People in the I mean Kanye West derogatory glasses with

475
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 1: the slats. Oh my god, the slat glasses. Oh my god.

476
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:22,640
Speaker 1: I saw someone wearing those like a few months ago,

477
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:27,119
Speaker 1: and I was like, it's it's anything you could have

478
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,159
Speaker 1: bought on the street on St. Mark's place. I have

479
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 1: a question. Are skinny jeans coming back? Yes? Wait, that's disgusting.

480
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 1: They are. That's bad. They are coming down St. Mark's.

481
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 1: I got a tattoo on St. Mark's. And who hasn't

482
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 1: gotten a tattoo on St. Mark's. I've gotten piercings on St.

483
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 1: Mark's don't I've gotten I've gotten things sucked and fucked

484
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 1: on St Mark's. It is probably my least favorite tattoo

485
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 1: as well. But I did, I did. I mean, I

486
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 1: fooled myself, Like I went into like a random shop

487
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 1: and I showed them an image that I found on Tumblr.

488
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 1: Oh no, but I did ask the artist permission. Thank

489
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 1: you for bringing up Tumbler, because we can't talk about

490
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 1: Indy Sleeves without talking about Tumbler, which is truly where

491
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 1: this movement, this aesthetic, this vibe um originated, festered, festered,

492
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:23,239
Speaker 1: and festered and grew, and I think really exemplifies the

493
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 1: duality of Indie Sleeves, which was a movement that was

494
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 1: about aesthetics and also about media consumption. And there was

495
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 1: nowhere where that was more present than on Tumbler. Because

496
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 1: you were defined by your taste level, You were defined

497
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 1: by the things that you liked and the things that

498
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,480
Speaker 1: you repurposed and reblogged. It's almost as not to jump

499
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 1: the gun on the thesis, but it's almost as if

500
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 1: it was the pre eminent fan culture that exists today,

501
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 1: speed fan culture totally, because there were these two factions

502
00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 1: on early Tumbler, which was the este side of Tumbler,

503
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 1: which was like soft grunge blogs, remember those where it's

504
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 1: like literally like an economy that was built off of

505
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 1: gifts from the Virgin Suicide. Oh my god, Oh my god.

506
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 1: I definitely I'm pretty sure I got my Virgin Suicides

507
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 1: soundtrack off of a live journal that I used exclusively

508
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:26,400
Speaker 1: to steal music. And yeah, So there was that holiesthetic

509
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 1: side of Tumbler, which was you know, like those um

510
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 1: like mood board esque type posts where it was like

511
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 1: all different photos of things and quotes on things. That

512
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 1: that was one side of Tumbler. And then there was

513
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 1: the fandom side of Tumbler, which was like the fuck

514
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 1: yeah blogs and the like early Marvel culture. And I mean,

515
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 1: I I hate, truly hate to bring this up. It

516
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 1: feels apocalyptic super Hulack. I mean, this was the era

517
00:30:56,800 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 1: of of super Hulack, of like the combination of all

518
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 1: these nerdy interests and people finding a place where there

519
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 1: were so many other people who were interested in those

520
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 1: things and they combined and turned into this sort of

521
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 1: like Hydra esque monster. And so you have these two

522
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 1: sides of the site battling you know the sides who

523
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 1: like the like e d Um Tumbler, who wanted to

524
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 1: like and like the pro Anna accounts, who wanted to

525
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 1: just like reblog skinny girls in like various outfits. And

526
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 1: then you have the ones who wanted to like write

527
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:38,480
Speaker 1: John Lock fan fiction. UM, and those two didn't always

528
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 1: interact super well, do you know what super hu Luck is? No?

529
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 1: I actually don't, Okay, I was trying to get gathered

530
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:48,240
Speaker 1: from context clues and I actually still have no idea. Yeah,

531
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 1: so this was a time. So who super hu Luck

532
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 1: is the amalgamation of these three fandoms for Supernatural, the

533
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 1: c W show Doctor Who, which which was kind of

534
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 1: at its revival peak with David Tennant with David Tennant

535
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 1: and Matt Smith of the Dragon Family, and Sherlock, the

536
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 1: BBC series starring Benedict Cumberbatch and Martin Freeman, which had

537
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:25,240
Speaker 1: combined to become this one sort of mega fandom. UM

538
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 1: paying Tumbler's light bill of course, literally, I mean literally actually,

539
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 1: like it's funny to think that the Internet was so

540
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 1: young then, but it really was, like it really was.

541
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 1: It was. I I don't know that. I guess it

542
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 1: was Tumbler and like, um, the era of indy sleeves

543
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 1: almost feels like when the Internet went to college. Oh

544
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 1: I was in college. That's like crazy, that's actually a

545
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 1: perfect way of um. Okay, wait, I never watched Sherlock,

546
00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 1: Doctor Who or Supernatural? Did you watch any of those?

547
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 1: I watched Sherlock, and I was a little I did

548
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 1: did my toes, and by by my toes, I mean

549
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 1: most of my legs maybe up to my waist. Um

550
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 1: into into the fandom I have read, I have read

551
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 1: some John Luck fan fiction. Sherlock was good in the beginning.

552
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 1: It's homo social, right, It's like it's not homorotic, it's

553
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 1: like very it's it's it's a little bit of both.

554
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 1: They they're so obviously into each other, and everyone on

555
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 1: the show is constantly asking if there are a couple.

556
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:38,479
Speaker 1: It's like very explicit in the text. But there's so

557
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 1: many no homo moments, and there was such a fervor

558
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 1: for that, and like obviously this was like the beginning

559
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:51,600
Speaker 1: of Benedict cumber Batch Mania. But if this show happened today,

560
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 1: like they would have just been a couple. But you know,

561
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 1: this was still mid adds, so they had to be

562
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 1: not gay. And like Sherlock was maybe a sexual. Um god,

563
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 1: the fan fiction for Sherlock must would like, you know,

564
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 1: kill someone in hospice. Like. But the reason that they're

565
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:13,399
Speaker 1: what that the fervor was so huge was because this

566
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:17,479
Speaker 1: was a BBC show, so each series was only two

567
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:21,279
Speaker 1: or three episodes, and then there would be literal years

568
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 1: between the series, so there was all this time for

569
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:31,800
Speaker 1: fans too spiral and write fan fiction and like create

570
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:35,879
Speaker 1: fan works. It's actually very similar to there's this thing

571
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 1: in Harry Potter fandom called the three year Summer, which

572
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:43,479
Speaker 1: is the time between the release of Goblet of Fire

573
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,399
Speaker 1: and Order of the Phoenix because we had to wait

574
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 1: longer for this book, so it ended up creating more

575
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 1: fan content. I've never heard that before. Wow, that really

576
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 1: was a long wait. Did you stay between which books?

577
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 1: Between Goblet of Fire and Order of the Phoenix? Oh

578
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:02,399
Speaker 1: my od wait that's also I I can't believe I've

579
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 1: never thought about this before, but Goblet of Fire is

580
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:09,400
Speaker 1: the hardest tonal pivot in J. K. Rolling's work. And

581
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 1: then she's like, you have to wait three years? The

582
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,400
Speaker 1: three year summer is what they call it. It's giving

583
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 1: Game of Thrones. Um, But so with Sherlock, um that

584
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,440
Speaker 1: kept happening. There would be these long stretches between the seasons.

585
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,440
Speaker 1: Then the final season happened, and there are all of

586
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:31,239
Speaker 1: these John Locke which is John Watson and Sherlock shippers

587
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:35,920
Speaker 1: who are convinced that in the final series they're finally

588
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 1: gonna become Cannon, They're finally going to be together. The

589
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:45,279
Speaker 1: final episodes happen, they are absolute ass. They suck. The

590
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 1: show ends, but the shippers won't won't take it as

591
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:53,400
Speaker 1: fact because they believe that there's gonna be a secret

592
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:57,920
Speaker 1: final episode that's going to air the week after the

593
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:00,879
Speaker 1: series finale. This girl should link up with the Galors

594
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 1: because they are the Glors. It's like, it's just that's

595
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 1: just what they've evolved into. Um that doesn't happen, And honestly,

596
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:12,279
Speaker 1: to this day, there are still people who think that

597
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 1: there's a new Sherlock series is going to come out

598
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 1: and fix all these problems. I would definitely suggest if

599
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:20,320
Speaker 1: you're interested in hearing more about this, to go watch

600
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:25,919
Speaker 1: um Sarah's D's YouTube video on the John Lock conspiracy.

601
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 1: It's very interesting. We have a lot of versions that

602
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 1: that watch Sherlock or asked us to do Sherlock. I

603
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:33,960
Speaker 1: think we've gotten that suggestion more than once. But I

604
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 1: would I would not. I would maybe watch the first

605
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:41,920
Speaker 1: season and that's it, like don't don't hurt yourself. It

606
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:46,959
Speaker 1: really the quality gets real bad um towards the later seasons.

607
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 1: But as I was saying, you know that Doctor Who

608
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:56,759
Speaker 1: Supernatural and also this was the very early years of

609
00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:01,560
Speaker 1: the Marvel fandom, and all of those things came together

610
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:06,839
Speaker 1: in this perfect storm of fandom um as I said,

611
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:13,400
Speaker 1: festering specific specifically, and then that faction was kind of

612
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 1: at war with the aesthetic side of Tumbler, which was

613
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 1: much more I won't say shallow, but it was a lot.

614
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:25,880
Speaker 1: I mean, it was how a lot of people like

615
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 1: came to understand their style or steal their style, like

616
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:32,239
Speaker 1: rip it off from other people. I mean, you know,

617
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:37,719
Speaker 1: Tumbler is all about repurposing someone else's ideas aesthetics, you know,

618
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 1: and claiming them for your own. And not just that,

619
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:46,840
Speaker 1: but like it's it's ownership and also like it really

620
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:49,719
Speaker 1: it's like real real ownership. Like even like the way

621
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 1: it's kind of like reminds me of the way a

622
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 1: lot of people think about memes now, where they think

623
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:55,960
Speaker 1: that like because they like made a meme. It's like

624
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 1: I have ownership over this image. It's like, actually, we're

625
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 1: all just like really like I mean, that's just n

626
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 1: f T culture. Yes, exactly exactly, But like people would

627
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:07,080
Speaker 1: be like I remember on Tumbler, like people getting into

628
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 1: fights over like I made this gift and you like

629
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:11,960
Speaker 1: didn't credit me or whatever, and I'm like, oh my god, babe,

630
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,239
Speaker 1: you put it on the internet. Yeah. And also just

631
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:17,279
Speaker 1: like you don't own the rights to fucking I don't know,

632
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:20,880
Speaker 1: Lord of the Rings or whatever you like gift. Um, God,

633
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 1: thank god we're out of the gift woods. You know,

634
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:25,279
Speaker 1: like I do not want to look at a gift ever.

635
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 1: I know who posted gifts. Let me tell you old millennials. Right, Okay,

636
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:48,840
Speaker 1: so you ran multiple tumblers. I think you've discussed on

637
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 1: the show before I did so. I had my main tumbler,

638
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:55,840
Speaker 1: which was just me, are all these these none of

639
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 1: these are public anymore? No? They all they don't exist anymore.

640
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:03,320
Speaker 1: I did so. When this is funny because we recently

641
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 1: talked about true Blood. Um, when True Blood started, I

642
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:10,240
Speaker 1: was really into it and I I never used it,

643
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:15,080
Speaker 1: but I got the handle fuck yeah, Anna Paquin because

644
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:17,919
Speaker 1: you know, fuck yeah blogs were a huge Yeah yeah,

645
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:21,320
Speaker 1: everyone wanted the fun yeah blank you got the first

646
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:25,279
Speaker 1: the hours that I spent on fuck yeah Lady Gaga

647
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:28,879
Speaker 1: because you know, like two thousand nine, tumbler Gaga had

648
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:32,799
Speaker 1: just become a thing. And I would say, like, especially

649
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:38,440
Speaker 1: after Um the fame monster that was. I mean, I

650
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 1: spent all my time on Tumbler looking at images of

651
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 1: Lady Gaga. Um. And I think she, more than any

652
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 1: other pop star in her field for a very long time,

653
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:52,759
Speaker 1: was so aesthetics driven, like she was a creative director.

654
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 1: You knew her as a creative director first beyond being

655
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 1: an amazing mutic artist, and that obviously translated to tumbler

656
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 1: culture exquisitely because when she does the paparazzi you know,

657
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:07,319
Speaker 1: um performance at the MTV Music Awards, or when she

658
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:10,840
Speaker 1: does the Batterman's music video whatever, those things are like

659
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:14,719
Speaker 1: crystalline Lee perfect for tumbler culture and obsession over Yeah.

660
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:17,799
Speaker 1: And she was oooky, spooky, which tumbler loves. And she

661
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:23,240
Speaker 1: also she was alten. Also, there was this feeling, especially

662
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 1: in the early years of her career, that it was

663
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,759
Speaker 1: very d I y you know, there was the House

664
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:33,200
Speaker 1: of Gaga. She was making all of this herself. She

665
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:36,239
Speaker 1: was like creating things like the flying dress and like

666
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:39,160
Speaker 1: that kind of ship, so that all of all of

667
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 1: those things came together, I think, to make her a

668
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:46,719
Speaker 1: perfect artist for Tumbler. But those fun yeah blogs existed

669
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 1: for literally everything, Yeah, I didn't have when I said

670
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:53,279
Speaker 1: before that I had a Beyonce and Salange Tumbler called

671
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:55,839
Speaker 1: Keeping Up with the Noses. But like I mostly just

672
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:59,279
Speaker 1: like went to Tumbler too, just to talk from a

673
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 1: personal perspect if I really um, I found Tumbler at

674
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:05,880
Speaker 1: a time where I was in a kind of like

675
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:09,360
Speaker 1: emotionally abusive relationship. Sorry, I didn't mean to actually go

676
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 1: that deep so quickly, but like I felt so low,

677
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 1: Like I had a very low opinion of myself. I

678
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:17,680
Speaker 1: had this boyfriend who was basically like bullying me within

679
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:21,400
Speaker 1: our relationship every single day. I felt like I and

680
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:24,880
Speaker 1: I also had just come out like just a year before, essentially,

681
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 1: and I felt like I didn't even know how to

682
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:32,359
Speaker 1: be gay quote unquote you know what I mean. Like

683
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:35,719
Speaker 1: I because I grew up in the Midwest, I and

684
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 1: because I grew up in this cultural vacuum I left

685
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:44,479
Speaker 1: to college feeling like I was like starting from square one,

686
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 1: like as an eighteen year old and getting I got

687
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:52,759
Speaker 1: a when I got a Tumbler, I didn't tell my boyfriend,

688
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 1: like I created this whole world and of myself that

689
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 1: I concealed from you know, this person in my life,

690
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:03,680
Speaker 1: and it actually set so much of myself free and

691
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 1: help me find so many of the things that I

692
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 1: was interested in in tune to um Well, that was

693
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 1: one of the great things about Tumbler was the anonymity

694
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 1: of it. Oh my god, exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah, And

695
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:18,000
Speaker 1: I think that like, because you didn't have to put

696
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:19,920
Speaker 1: your name and face on all this, I could do

697
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 1: whatever the funk I wanted and it didn't matter. Not

698
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:24,799
Speaker 1: that I was doing anything crazy on Tumbler, but like

699
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 1: I mean, you're just like what jerking off? Yeah, yeah, exactly.

700
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 1: But like I think another facet of this is like

701
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 1: my boyfriend at the time was trying to control my

702
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:42,600
Speaker 1: aesthetics and the things that I liked and would like

703
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 1: make me feel bad about music that I listened to

704
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 1: because he recommended it or would like tell me that

705
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:51,880
Speaker 1: I couldn't wear certain things or at certain ways. And

706
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:54,799
Speaker 1: it's like was this your silver hair era? No, no, no,

707
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:57,400
Speaker 1: oh my god, but that would be perfect for tumbler culture.

708
00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 1: Very sadly an embarrassing an area, very embarrassingly my silver

709
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 1: hair era was post in thesely um But all that

710
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:13,200
Speaker 1: is to say is Tumbler creates this really beautiful kind

711
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:18,399
Speaker 1: of like uh, I guess vacuum, yeah, to kind of

712
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:23,440
Speaker 1: project and imbue and foster, slash, fester all of your

713
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:26,480
Speaker 1: kind of cultural desires. And I just feel like tumbler

714
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:30,760
Speaker 1: culture and a lot of things like it allow users

715
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:34,919
Speaker 1: to hyper fixate on things to make their whole personality,

716
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:37,839
Speaker 1: so that the hyer fixation is such a huge part

717
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:41,359
Speaker 1: of it. And that hyperfixation and the obsession that we

718
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 1: accrue on something like Doctor Who or Twilight or whatever

719
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:48,840
Speaker 1: makes you think that because you're an expert on those things,

720
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 1: you don't actually have to learn basic life skills like

721
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:53,759
Speaker 1: how to make friends or like how to have a conversation.

722
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 1: But also a lot of people made friends through tumbling,

723
00:43:57,360 --> 00:44:00,359
Speaker 1: and you know, even though Tumbler was a play where

724
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:03,359
Speaker 1: you could be anonymous, it was also a place where

725
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:08,359
Speaker 1: you interacted with people who loved obsessively the things that

726
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:12,239
Speaker 1: you loved. Obsessively and if you could cross that like

727
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 1: anonymous internet divide, you could find someone who you might

728
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:20,880
Speaker 1: be friends with for life. I didn't really make a

729
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:23,719
Speaker 1: lot of Internet friends because what at the time that

730
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:27,239
Speaker 1: I was on Tumbler, I was also part of what

731
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:30,719
Speaker 1: I guess is the I r L counterpart of the

732
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:34,719
Speaker 1: indie sleeves movement, which was party culture and like the

733
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 1: aesthetic the like real world aesthetics of indie sleeves. So

734
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:43,120
Speaker 1: like I had a thriving social life. I was going

735
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:46,680
Speaker 1: to underground shows, I was going to see you know,

736
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:50,319
Speaker 1: yeah yeah yeahs, and like I was out in the

737
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:55,040
Speaker 1: world doing all the things that people were only doing online.

738
00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:59,000
Speaker 1: So I didn't feel like I needed to make friends

739
00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:02,840
Speaker 1: that way. So my first Internet friend was made on Tumbler.

740
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:07,280
Speaker 1: His name was Ian, and we you know, like became friends.

741
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:10,880
Speaker 1: And when I moved to New York years later after college,

742
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 1: Ian was the person that I stayed, that I crashed

743
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:16,760
Speaker 1: with over the weekend before I moved into my apartment,

744
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:20,399
Speaker 1: Like I slept on his couch because of Tumbler, which

745
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:24,880
Speaker 1: is so beautiful and crazy. Um but I to the

746
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:28,160
Speaker 1: like music component of all of it all. You mentioned

747
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:32,960
Speaker 1: the yeah yeah yeahs. This was kind of peak Pitchfork

748
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:37,399
Speaker 1: question Mark or like came at the end of as

749
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 1: was more Spin Magazine and Ben Nylon Nil is very indy,

750
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:49,160
Speaker 1: sleep my God. Okay. If there's one thing that I

751
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 1: jerked it too, it was Jason Schwartzman on the cover

752
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:55,719
Speaker 1: of Nylon Magazine. Jason Schwartzman. Well, Jason Schwartzman was a

753
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:58,960
Speaker 1: crush of mine. But more than that was his brother,

754
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:02,320
Speaker 1: who was the lead singer of Rooney. Do you remember

755
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:06,760
Speaker 1: the band Rooney? No, I do remember Jason Schwartzman Coconut Records.

756
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:11,440
Speaker 1: I loved Coconut Records, but Rooney. Rooney is a little

757
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:15,759
Speaker 1: pre Indi Sleeves. Rooney is like very like California. Um.

758
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:20,239
Speaker 1: Robert Schwartzman, who's the lead singer songwriter, was Anne Hathaway's

759
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 1: love interest in The Princess Diaries. Oh, I don't remember

760
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:26,759
Speaker 1: that guy. Do they both have that? Like? They kind

761
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:29,760
Speaker 1: of they look very similar, do they both have? Robert's

762
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:32,680
Speaker 1: a little cuter, he's a little more like traditionally hot,

763
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:35,600
Speaker 1: but the very similar vibes. And I had such a

764
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:39,120
Speaker 1: huge crush on him and I once saw Rooney open

765
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:45,280
Speaker 1: for Fergy in concert. Yeah, it was a weird pairing. Okay,

766
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:47,920
Speaker 1: not not necessarily a one to one, But since we're

767
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:51,440
Speaker 1: talking about indie sleeve is I remember driving four hours

768
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 1: from Indiana to Chicago to watch Janelle Monet open for

769
00:46:56,840 --> 00:47:02,439
Speaker 1: of Montreal, not of Montreal, not crazy, you're sick. Can

770
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:06,960
Speaker 1: you imagine a world where Janelle Money opens of Montreal?

771
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:09,840
Speaker 1: I mean, their their collaboration like that, their love for

772
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 1: each other actually was so beautiful because at least from

773
00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:15,719
Speaker 1: my eyes and where when I was consuming their music

774
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:17,760
Speaker 1: at the same time, I didn't think they really sounded

775
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 1: anything alike and that they didn't have anything to do

776
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:21,400
Speaker 1: with each other. So the fact that they found a

777
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:25,120
Speaker 1: kind of artistic camaraderie and like work together to build

778
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:27,440
Speaker 1: each other's careers up, especially at a moment where of

779
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:31,240
Speaker 1: Montreal is one of the most you know, beloved bands

780
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:34,600
Speaker 1: in the indiess era. I don't know, there's something about

781
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:37,720
Speaker 1: that that like crystallizes so much about it's actually really

782
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:40,520
Speaker 1: wonderful and good. But that was another big part of

783
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:47,440
Speaker 1: indie sleeves was finding music through other bands, through me,

784
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:55,360
Speaker 1: through you know, Blango Tech, through Um like Um Brooklyn Vegan,

785
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:59,640
Speaker 1: Brooklyn Vegan, I think this was a time in my

786
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:05,080
Speaker 1: life's specifically where I was constantly looking for new music.

787
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:08,000
Speaker 1: This was like pre Shazam and so I would you know,

788
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:11,160
Speaker 1: this was the time of like going into an urban outfitters,

789
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:17,120
Speaker 1: sorry to speaking into existence and like discovering discovering. This

790
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:20,080
Speaker 1: was a time of discovery. This was a time of

791
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:25,440
Speaker 1: being like a sponge soaking up new culture. Or you know,

792
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:28,920
Speaker 1: you walked into Starbucks, you get your your grande a

793
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:32,160
Speaker 1: blonde roast, and you see the sink the free single

794
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:34,400
Speaker 1: of the week that you get on your little card

795
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:36,480
Speaker 1: and you downloaded on it tunes. Do you remember that.

796
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:38,640
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure I found I mean, this is you know,

797
00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:41,480
Speaker 1: tweet a different conversation, but I remember discovering probably Ingrid

798
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:46,239
Speaker 1: Michaelson through Starbucks's or no, I think I discovered Ingrid

799
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:51,360
Speaker 1: Michaelson through an Apple commercial. There's so many artists like

800
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:54,440
Speaker 1: that where it's like you kind of discover them on accident.

801
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:56,880
Speaker 1: Like I know, Pitchfork was kind of at the end

802
00:48:56,960 --> 00:48:59,200
Speaker 1: of any slee but like i UM, I worked at

803
00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:02,720
Speaker 1: this literary and on profit um during these like years

804
00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:05,160
Speaker 1: that I UM was like working in Chicago, and I

805
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:09,120
Speaker 1: did go to Pitchfork every single year for free because

806
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:12,160
Speaker 1: I would volunteer for this nonprofit so I could like

807
00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:17,760
Speaker 1: table for them. And I saw so many of these,

808
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:23,120
Speaker 1: like Quintessential Indi Slee's bands and I I mean, but

809
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:25,560
Speaker 1: like a lot of them. It's like I wasn't even

810
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:27,600
Speaker 1: seeing on purpose. Like I think I've seen Beach House

811
00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:30,839
Speaker 1: on accident four times. Beach House Live is so good.

812
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:34,160
Speaker 1: So I saw them at Coachella and it was one

813
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:38,319
Speaker 1: of the best shows I saw. It was the only

814
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:41,680
Speaker 1: time I've gone to Coachella. Um, it was twenty twelve

815
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:47,160
Speaker 1: and it was that year I saw Beach House. Yeah yeah, yeah.

816
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:51,920
Speaker 1: Grimes and this was like early Grimes. Actually I was

817
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:56,440
Speaker 1: I saw um Dive Do you remember Dive? Actually? Um,

818
00:49:56,480 --> 00:49:59,040
Speaker 1: I was at a Dive show and it was when

819
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:03,040
Speaker 1: Sky Feraro dating the lead singer, and she and I

820
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:09,400
Speaker 1: like danced together because I was okay wait, speaking of Grimes,

821
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:13,920
Speaker 1: I remember going to Pitchfork to go see Grimes perform

822
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:18,000
Speaker 1: and sitting in the press or not the press are

823
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:20,120
Speaker 1: is sitting on the wings of the stage and like

824
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:25,040
Speaker 1: the VIP area was Lady Gaga sitting there like and

825
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:27,200
Speaker 1: this is and this is when she is the most famous,

826
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:30,200
Speaker 1: and I remember gagging. I remember being like Lady Gaga's

827
00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:34,080
Speaker 1: at this Grimes concert. It was like so surreal. Um,

828
00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:36,120
Speaker 1: you know, we can't you know, indian, like we can't

829
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:39,879
Speaker 1: talk about indie sleeves music without like really doubling down

830
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:42,719
Speaker 1: on the indie part of it. This was this was

831
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:48,080
Speaker 1: the time in music culture when indie music peaked. And

832
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:51,320
Speaker 1: I think like the real peak of it was when

833
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:57,279
Speaker 1: jay Z was spotted at a Grizzly Bear show. And

834
00:50:57,360 --> 00:51:02,880
Speaker 1: that's kind of when when everyone realized that indie music

835
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:07,520
Speaker 1: had sort of become mainstream. And I think that is

836
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:12,359
Speaker 1: what like ruined, not ruined, but kind of signaled the

837
00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:15,600
Speaker 1: end of this era of indie music as we know it,

838
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:20,280
Speaker 1: like has indie acts and bands became actually the biggest

839
00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:23,880
Speaker 1: acts that existed, Like whether it's like Grizzly Bear or

840
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:27,280
Speaker 1: I'm thinking of like Vampire Weekend. Those shows where huge,

841
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:31,120
Speaker 1: The shows where huge. Did you see the video of

842
00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:34,400
Speaker 1: Taylor coming out to perform with Boni Ver It just

843
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:37,680
Speaker 1: happened this week. Oh my god, came out and they

844
00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:41,239
Speaker 1: sang exile, Oh, oh my god, wait I'm in for that.

845
00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:44,439
Speaker 1: Bony Ver decually didn't sound great. Oh that sucks well,

846
00:51:44,719 --> 00:51:49,040
Speaker 1: does she ever? Phone? Um? I Boni Vere was definitely

847
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:53,600
Speaker 1: the soundtrack to like my college era of depression and

848
00:51:53,719 --> 00:51:58,919
Speaker 1: a very wintry Indiana University, and that those albums are

849
00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:04,600
Speaker 1: more period. I was more of a Fleet Foxes girl,

850
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:08,759
Speaker 1: if we're talking about sort of the male indie acts. Yeah,

851
00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:11,480
Speaker 1: I mean I haven't listened to a man sing music

852
00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:14,560
Speaker 1: and years. Fleet Foxes was definitely my ship. Like I

853
00:52:14,640 --> 00:52:18,799
Speaker 1: love White Winter Hymnoal. I mean the Helplessness Blues is

854
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:24,360
Speaker 1: an amazing album. Um, I love that album. I can like, honestly,

855
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:26,480
Speaker 1: we should just like rattle off some more, just like

856
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:28,680
Speaker 1: so that the virgins at home can like scream to

857
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:34,120
Speaker 1: remember MGM mgmt um m g m T owned my

858
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:40,840
Speaker 1: whole The Strokes. I was very much the Strokes pilled.

859
00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:44,480
Speaker 1: I used to go to that. One of the members

860
00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:50,000
Speaker 1: of the Strokes um owned a like secret bar in

861
00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:52,440
Speaker 1: the East Village called Cabin, and my friends and I

862
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:54,880
Speaker 1: used to go there and it was like they like

863
00:52:54,960 --> 00:53:01,680
Speaker 1: we were like, oh my god, fucking cool. Um do

864
00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:06,759
Speaker 1: you okay? Arcade Fire Where the wild soundtrack? I love

865
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:10,439
Speaker 1: Arcade Fire? Can I tell you where the Wild Things are?

866
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:14,080
Speaker 1: The movie The Spike. Well, they didn't do the soundtrack.

867
00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:16,239
Speaker 1: Kareno did the soundtrack to the Where the Wild Things Are.

868
00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:18,840
Speaker 1: All right, Sorry, I'm thinking about the song, the Arcade

869
00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:22,000
Speaker 1: Fire song that was the trailer that, like you know,

870
00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:24,920
Speaker 1: it was like so beautiful and like also catapulted it

871
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:28,840
Speaker 1: into like even more popularity. But um, yeah, Kareno is

872
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:33,160
Speaker 1: also in easily very Innasily's era. Obviously, Um, when I

873
00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:37,200
Speaker 1: was working at this literary nonprofit in Chicago, Spike Jones,

874
00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:40,240
Speaker 1: Where the Wild Things Are to me was the pinnacle

875
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:46,200
Speaker 1: of culture. I had never anticipated anything more in eons

876
00:53:46,239 --> 00:53:49,680
Speaker 1: because I was so obsessed with like obviously Mary Sandek,

877
00:53:49,719 --> 00:53:53,360
Speaker 1: obviously with like the yeah yahs, already obviously with Dave Eggers,

878
00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:56,200
Speaker 1: because Dave Eggers. If we're going to talk about literary

879
00:53:56,280 --> 00:54:00,279
Speaker 1: Indiesle's era is also that kind of like to reign

880
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:05,440
Speaker 1: of like culture. Um, did you listen to Bride Eyes? No?

881
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:09,880
Speaker 1: Oh my god, bright Eyes so sad? Were you a

882
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:13,839
Speaker 1: Belle and Sebastian girly? I? Um, okay, I didn't ledge

883
00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:16,520
Speaker 1: onto Belle and Sebastian as much because I think that

884
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:21,480
Speaker 1: like the indie acoustic section of indie sleeves for me,

885
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:26,440
Speaker 1: was all occupied by like Sufian stephens Um and the

886
00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:30,640
Speaker 1: immense discography that he just had already. I feel like

887
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:33,880
Speaker 1: he came on the scene with seventeen albums, like he

888
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:36,080
Speaker 1: already had so much work that we had to, like,

889
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:39,439
Speaker 1: you know, shuffle through. I was never I was never

890
00:54:39,480 --> 00:54:43,680
Speaker 1: a Sufian girl. Um, were you into Damien Rice? Not Damien?

891
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:50,680
Speaker 1: I wasn't, but some of my best friends were. I

892
00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:53,880
Speaker 1: had suffered through a lot of it, I mean, and

893
00:54:53,920 --> 00:54:55,919
Speaker 1: then then we kind of spin out to the more

894
00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:59,760
Speaker 1: sort of like bluesy parts of it, like Grace Potter

895
00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:05,880
Speaker 1: and the Nocturnals. Remember Potter, Oh bluesy? Okay? Bluesy to

896
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:09,520
Speaker 1: me is like Tuniards? Did you did you listen to Juniards?

897
00:55:10,160 --> 00:55:12,480
Speaker 1: I think? Honestly, something that's really interesting about what we're

898
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:15,400
Speaker 1: talking about in the music portion of this convo is

899
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:21,160
Speaker 1: that indi sleeves is not defined by any specific sound.

900
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:23,640
Speaker 1: I could argue, right like we have when we have

901
00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:28,520
Speaker 1: genres like pop or country or whatever, Like indie sleeves

902
00:55:28,600 --> 00:55:33,319
Speaker 1: does not faction into a specific sonic thing that you

903
00:55:33,320 --> 00:55:37,120
Speaker 1: can differentiate from other genres because there's overlap. Does that

904
00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:41,120
Speaker 1: make sense? Yeah, Well, because it's all based on being independent,

905
00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:44,320
Speaker 1: being underground, and being in this time period. And also

906
00:55:44,719 --> 00:55:50,799
Speaker 1: a hallmark of Indie sleeves is mash up culture. So

907
00:55:50,840 --> 00:55:55,000
Speaker 1: it's all about these different styles of music taking from

908
00:55:55,040 --> 00:55:58,120
Speaker 1: each other, sampling each other. So like you know, the

909
00:55:58,200 --> 00:56:01,239
Speaker 1: girl Talk a vacation, I was say, did you ever

910
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:04,600
Speaker 1: see girl Talk? I did see girl Talk. I never

911
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:07,160
Speaker 1: saw them. I did see sligh bells. You you and

912
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:10,960
Speaker 1: I have had We've talked about slay bells. I loved

913
00:56:11,120 --> 00:56:15,239
Speaker 1: slay Bells. Perhaps actually no, not, perhaps, without a doubt,

914
00:56:15,280 --> 00:56:17,960
Speaker 1: one of the best live performances I've ever seen. It

915
00:56:18,040 --> 00:56:35,480
Speaker 1: was so so and I not here. It went very hard. Yeah,

916
00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:41,799
Speaker 1: I do think we should talk about the fashion of

917
00:56:42,280 --> 00:56:46,000
Speaker 1: India slaves because that, more than anything, you know, once

918
00:56:46,040 --> 00:56:48,759
Speaker 1: we once we started talking about the India Saves revival,

919
00:56:49,280 --> 00:56:51,600
Speaker 1: I think that more than anything is where we're seeing

920
00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:55,879
Speaker 1: that revival is the aesthetics of this time period. So

921
00:56:56,320 --> 00:56:59,919
Speaker 1: you know, we already referenced it, but American apparel, there's

922
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:05,200
Speaker 1: nothing more Indi sleeves and also American spirits. It was

923
00:57:05,239 --> 00:57:07,960
Speaker 1: it was part of the I hate American spirit. I

924
00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:10,120
Speaker 1: also think that I was a smoker. I was not

925
00:57:10,320 --> 00:57:12,840
Speaker 1: an American Spirit smoker, and if I asked someone for

926
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:14,880
Speaker 1: a cigarette and all they had were American spirits, I

927
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:17,760
Speaker 1: would simply go without you be like, no, thank you,

928
00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:19,800
Speaker 1: I was good, I'm good. I don't want to have

929
00:57:19,840 --> 00:57:23,080
Speaker 1: to fucking roll a cigarette to break it up and

930
00:57:23,120 --> 00:57:26,600
Speaker 1: then choke through smoking it for twenty minutes. Yeah, the

931
00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:29,560
Speaker 1: stage one or whatever. Um, yeah, that that was my

932
00:57:29,640 --> 00:57:32,640
Speaker 1: cigarette choice. I also, honestly, I do think it was

933
00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:35,560
Speaker 1: part of the uniform, you know, because in these college years,

934
00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:38,440
Speaker 1: I was a closet it's like smoker for like almost

935
00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:41,480
Speaker 1: two years. Did you know this? A lot of people

936
00:57:41,600 --> 00:57:44,800
Speaker 1: didn't know that I smoked multiple cigarettes a day. I

937
00:57:44,840 --> 00:57:47,480
Speaker 1: know that you smoke cigarette every time we go on

938
00:57:47,600 --> 00:57:50,760
Speaker 1: vacation and we're buying groceries. But one of us was like,

939
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:53,600
Speaker 1: should we buy a cigarettes. We're like, we're on vacation,

940
00:57:53,840 --> 00:57:57,480
Speaker 1: and I usually hate it because listen, I quit smoking

941
00:57:57,760 --> 00:58:01,760
Speaker 1: in two thousand seventeen. I like went fully cold turkey.

942
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:03,760
Speaker 1: It was very easy for me to quit, but I

943
00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:06,760
Speaker 1: had been I had been a social smoker for ten years,

944
00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:11,840
Speaker 1: and now I like to smoke a cigarette like once

945
00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:15,240
Speaker 1: a year to remind myself that I hate them. But

946
00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:18,960
Speaker 1: also and also went. But when I'm on vacation, it's

947
00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:21,640
Speaker 1: a different story. Like when we were on Fire Island

948
00:58:21,640 --> 00:58:25,560
Speaker 1: this summer and bought a pack of camel crushes, I

949
00:58:25,600 --> 00:58:30,800
Speaker 1: was although camel crushes were not my cigarettes of choice

950
00:58:30,840 --> 00:58:33,360
Speaker 1: when I was an active smoker, I was a camel

951
00:58:33,520 --> 00:58:37,840
Speaker 1: filters girl. That's rough, that's kind of gross. And they're

952
00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:40,120
Speaker 1: they're a little hardcore. They're like a little heavier than

953
00:58:40,160 --> 00:58:43,920
Speaker 1: camel lights. Um, okay, But back to the American apparel

954
00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:49,120
Speaker 1: of this, So we're talking skinny jeans, skinny more than

955
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:53,120
Speaker 1: I think anything. Skinny jeans are what skinny jeans and

956
00:58:53,120 --> 00:58:57,880
Speaker 1: flannel are what this era of fashion was all about.

957
00:58:58,320 --> 00:59:02,920
Speaker 1: But also thinness was what this era of fashion was

958
00:59:02,960 --> 00:59:06,880
Speaker 1: all about actually, and that like as like someone who

959
00:59:07,120 --> 00:59:09,720
Speaker 1: was fat, you know, I mean who is fat and

960
00:59:09,920 --> 00:59:12,920
Speaker 1: was fat during this period in fashion, Like all of

961
00:59:12,960 --> 00:59:15,600
Speaker 1: these places were places that like it was very hard

962
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:18,480
Speaker 1: if you did not have like a very thin body

963
00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:21,640
Speaker 1: to shop at, but like you know, you found ways

964
00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:25,120
Speaker 1: around it, you found ways to participate. But this was

965
00:59:25,160 --> 00:59:29,480
Speaker 1: a time in culture where thinness was the aesthetic. Like

966
00:59:29,600 --> 00:59:32,240
Speaker 1: I mean we talked about like earlier, you know, e

967
00:59:32,480 --> 00:59:35,960
Speaker 1: edy and like pro Ana tumblers, and like this was

968
00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:38,680
Speaker 1: a time when like we were still using words like

969
00:59:39,040 --> 00:59:41,720
Speaker 1: heroin chic, which is like a very nineties thing, but

970
00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:45,880
Speaker 1: like your sticking out definitely maintained until this period of time.

971
00:59:45,920 --> 00:59:48,480
Speaker 1: And like just like so like I know that, like

972
00:59:49,160 --> 00:59:52,320
Speaker 1: I mean obviously, like eating disorders were totally like permanent

973
00:59:52,400 --> 00:59:55,600
Speaker 1: in the culture, but like brands like American Apparel, I

974
00:59:55,640 --> 00:59:58,840
Speaker 1: feel like Hollister and Abercrombie are also in this category.

975
00:59:59,040 --> 01:00:04,840
Speaker 1: Insidious Lee made things multiple sizes too small, like it

976
01:00:04,960 --> 01:00:09,560
Speaker 1: was actually so I told this story already on our

977
01:00:09,640 --> 01:00:12,200
Speaker 1: last holiday episode with Iron Madison. But I did used

978
01:00:12,200 --> 01:00:14,480
Speaker 1: to work at an American Apparel of course, because I

979
01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:17,480
Speaker 1: feel like it's something of a Brooklyn rite of passage. Um.

980
01:00:17,480 --> 01:00:19,560
Speaker 1: For I feel like a lot of my friends like

981
01:00:19,640 --> 01:00:21,680
Speaker 1: that I know now like have like since come out

982
01:00:21,680 --> 01:00:23,400
Speaker 1: of the closet as people that like work the back

983
01:00:23,480 --> 01:00:26,960
Speaker 1: room at like American Apparel. I worked front obviously of

984
01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:30,480
Speaker 1: course I'm a sales girl. Um. But that because there

985
01:00:30,560 --> 01:00:33,640
Speaker 1: was always that one gay. It was all these like

986
01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:36,880
Speaker 1: thirteen year old girls and one like college gay. Yeah,

987
01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:39,760
Speaker 1: one college gay. That's like managing all of them. For actually, no,

988
01:00:39,880 --> 01:00:42,120
Speaker 1: the one college gay. That's reporting to a thirteen year

989
01:00:42,160 --> 01:00:44,800
Speaker 1: old girl who like, you know, really will know maybe

990
01:00:44,800 --> 01:00:47,680
Speaker 1: a sixteen year old Yes, yeah, we probably shouldn't talk

991
01:00:47,720 --> 01:00:49,960
Speaker 1: about thirteen year old girls in the context of American

992
01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:55,800
Speaker 1: over because it all, um, god disgusting, that whole institution

993
01:00:55,920 --> 01:00:58,400
Speaker 1: so gross. And then they like made their company and

994
01:00:58,600 --> 01:01:01,640
Speaker 1: they like bankrupt to their own company and then made

995
01:01:01,680 --> 01:01:05,280
Speaker 1: a new fake shell company called Los Angeles Yes, which

996
01:01:05,480 --> 01:01:08,520
Speaker 1: there and evaded all of their like debt and controversy. Yes,

997
01:01:08,640 --> 01:01:11,320
Speaker 1: the the Starbucks drive through that I go to in

998
01:01:11,520 --> 01:01:14,800
Speaker 1: l A. When you pull through to get your coffee,

999
01:01:15,080 --> 01:01:17,880
Speaker 1: you're sitting your car is parked right in front of

1000
01:01:18,040 --> 01:01:21,840
Speaker 1: a billboard for Los Angeles apparel, And it's just the

1001
01:01:21,920 --> 01:01:25,800
Speaker 1: same aesthetic, like a skinny white girl with long, dark

1002
01:01:25,840 --> 01:01:29,320
Speaker 1: hair and huge eyes in a pair of tube socks.

1003
01:01:29,360 --> 01:01:31,560
Speaker 1: Actually is it? Is it? Actually? Um? Is it part

1004
01:01:31,640 --> 01:01:33,400
Speaker 1: of the drive through window? Did they hand you your

1005
01:01:33,600 --> 01:01:37,240
Speaker 1: grande latte? And also like a pair of high high

1006
01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:40,760
Speaker 1: a knee lengthy leggings or whatever. But I had several

1007
01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:44,680
Speaker 1: pairs of knee high tubox from American Apparel. I had

1008
01:01:45,040 --> 01:01:48,200
Speaker 1: lots of deep v nex, I had lots of circle scars,

1009
01:01:48,240 --> 01:01:52,600
Speaker 1: I had three different pairs of these high waisted like

1010
01:01:53,200 --> 01:01:56,360
Speaker 1: wrider pants. And the thing about American apparel, I swear

1011
01:01:56,400 --> 01:01:59,080
Speaker 1: to God like we were told when if people asked

1012
01:01:59,280 --> 01:02:02,600
Speaker 1: about like for care instructions or whatever, like at the register,

1013
01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:07,480
Speaker 1: you would tell customers, don't ever wash these clothes. Because

1014
01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:11,840
Speaker 1: I'm not joking because literally, the first time you wash

1015
01:02:12,040 --> 01:02:15,960
Speaker 1: anything from American apparel, the color immediately bleeds out of it.

1016
01:02:16,160 --> 01:02:18,440
Speaker 1: And so that's that's why I had so many pairs

1017
01:02:18,440 --> 01:02:20,920
Speaker 1: of these high waisted black jeans, because I had to

1018
01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:23,280
Speaker 1: wear things you have to be in head to toe

1019
01:02:23,320 --> 01:02:26,040
Speaker 1: American apparel in order to like work there, and those

1020
01:02:26,080 --> 01:02:29,200
Speaker 1: are my favorite jeans, and they would after one wash

1021
01:02:29,400 --> 01:02:33,640
Speaker 1: would look gray. I will say, I do love an

1022
01:02:33,640 --> 01:02:38,000
Speaker 1: American Apparel hoodie. They were so comfy, very comfy, and

1023
01:02:38,240 --> 01:02:41,320
Speaker 1: the underwear, the briefs were really good. They were all

1024
01:02:41,360 --> 01:02:43,400
Speaker 1: I wore. I'm trying to think if there's any the

1025
01:02:43,440 --> 01:02:47,320
Speaker 1: only thing that has like to me still quintessential American

1026
01:02:47,320 --> 01:02:51,040
Speaker 1: apparel is the pleated tennis skirt. Because most pleated tennis

1027
01:02:51,040 --> 01:02:55,080
Speaker 1: skirts I feel out now are like skirts or they're

1028
01:02:55,080 --> 01:02:57,680
Speaker 1: not the right you know, height, or they're like mew mew,

1029
01:02:57,960 --> 01:03:00,400
Speaker 1: you know, and it's like I don't know, I that's

1030
01:03:00,400 --> 01:03:02,640
Speaker 1: the one thing that can't be replaced. But like, but

1031
01:03:02,720 --> 01:03:04,760
Speaker 1: like people just need to make more like circle tennis skirts.

1032
01:03:04,800 --> 01:03:06,440
Speaker 1: It's like a really simple product, Like why don't why

1033
01:03:06,440 --> 01:03:08,840
Speaker 1: does it anybody make more pleaded tennis skirts. So then

1034
01:03:09,040 --> 01:03:12,280
Speaker 1: the I would say, the sister of American Apparel when

1035
01:03:12,320 --> 01:03:16,400
Speaker 1: we're talking about fashion is Urban Outfitters, And they weren't

1036
01:03:16,680 --> 01:03:19,320
Speaker 1: in that conglomerate of things on my Urban Outfitters, right,

1037
01:03:19,320 --> 01:03:22,720
Speaker 1: it was anthropology. I think it was just anthropology and

1038
01:03:22,840 --> 01:03:26,960
Speaker 1: Urban Outfitters. Okay, okay, Urban Outfitters was Mecca. It was

1039
01:03:27,000 --> 01:03:29,760
Speaker 1: my favorite store, Urban out I mean Ryan my you know,

1040
01:03:29,880 --> 01:03:32,520
Speaker 1: you know Ryan Um, my friend Ryan and I used

1041
01:03:32,560 --> 01:03:35,920
Speaker 1: to call the Urban Outfitters at fourteenth and six Mecca,

1042
01:03:36,240 --> 01:03:40,000
Speaker 1: and that was that wasn't an open late Urban Outfitters

1043
01:03:40,080 --> 01:03:44,080
Speaker 1: wasn't um. They were open until maybe ten Have you

1044
01:03:44,120 --> 01:03:47,880
Speaker 1: ever been? It has since closed, which was honestly devastating

1045
01:03:47,960 --> 01:03:52,000
Speaker 1: because I spent so much time, specifically in the sales

1046
01:03:52,000 --> 01:03:55,320
Speaker 1: section of that Urban Outfitters. I bought all my gifts

1047
01:03:55,320 --> 01:03:59,360
Speaker 1: at Urban, my book collection, Urban, I probably guards yes,

1048
01:03:59,560 --> 01:04:02,800
Speaker 1: records of course, record Player, those suitcase record players. I

1049
01:04:02,840 --> 01:04:06,840
Speaker 1: got my Hipster Handbook at Urban Outfitters. That was like

1050
01:04:06,880 --> 01:04:10,320
Speaker 1: a thing. My mother found my copy of the Hipster

1051
01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:13,160
Speaker 1: Handbook when I was in high school. And the handbook,

1052
01:04:13,160 --> 01:04:15,040
Speaker 1: you know, obviously it's like very crass and I think

1053
01:04:15,040 --> 01:04:17,320
Speaker 1: there's nudity in it, and my mom found it and

1054
01:04:17,360 --> 01:04:20,080
Speaker 1: freaked out and threw it in the garbage. Urban Outfitters

1055
01:04:20,120 --> 01:04:22,360
Speaker 1: was probably one of the first places where I like

1056
01:04:23,560 --> 01:04:30,800
Speaker 1: bought specifically um women's clothing before I transitioned, you know,

1057
01:04:31,360 --> 01:04:33,600
Speaker 1: or it was either that or like some thrift store.

1058
01:04:33,760 --> 01:04:38,200
Speaker 1: American Apparel was my gateway for that. Similarly, and you know,

1059
01:04:38,320 --> 01:04:41,960
Speaker 1: Urban Outfitters like it was a one stop shop for

1060
01:04:42,480 --> 01:04:48,640
Speaker 1: hipster culture and apparel because you could buy your skinny jeans,

1061
01:04:48,680 --> 01:04:53,480
Speaker 1: your band T shirt, your flannel shirt, a record, a book,

1062
01:04:54,040 --> 01:04:59,160
Speaker 1: and then like some fucking stupid poster or like art

1063
01:04:59,360 --> 01:05:04,680
Speaker 1: to put on your wall, and a beanie. Although although

1064
01:05:04,720 --> 01:05:07,640
Speaker 1: I will say I do think American Apparel had superior beanies.

1065
01:05:07,640 --> 01:05:11,360
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely. Is there anything that you bought at Urban

1066
01:05:11,360 --> 01:05:14,240
Speaker 1: Outfitters that was just like prized to you, whether it

1067
01:05:14,320 --> 01:05:16,080
Speaker 1: was a clothing item or something from their gift store,

1068
01:05:16,080 --> 01:05:17,880
Speaker 1: I don't even know my answer yeah, I had. I

1069
01:05:17,920 --> 01:05:22,480
Speaker 1: had a pair of B D G geans that were

1070
01:05:22,880 --> 01:05:26,640
Speaker 1: you know, like I wore them probably every day for

1071
01:05:26,720 --> 01:05:28,840
Speaker 1: a year. Oh yeah, when you find a good pair

1072
01:05:28,880 --> 01:05:31,360
Speaker 1: of jeans, I used to wear those. And then I

1073
01:05:31,400 --> 01:05:35,680
Speaker 1: had a pair of yellow high top converse and this

1074
01:05:35,960 --> 01:05:40,400
Speaker 1: like blue and purple flannel button down and that was

1075
01:05:40,600 --> 01:05:46,000
Speaker 1: my uniform buttondown for for like the entire year of

1076
01:05:46,320 --> 01:05:54,520
Speaker 1: twenty ten. Buttondowns slash cardigans very this era, like, oh

1077
01:05:54,560 --> 01:05:58,080
Speaker 1: my god, I had so many cardigans. I will never

1078
01:05:58,080 --> 01:06:01,480
Speaker 1: I would never in a million years be caught dead

1079
01:06:01,520 --> 01:06:03,400
Speaker 1: in a cardigan. Sorry, oh I love a cardigan. I

1080
01:06:03,440 --> 01:06:05,640
Speaker 1: do not like cardigan. I have a have a J

1081
01:06:05,800 --> 01:06:09,240
Speaker 1: Crue Cashmere Lend cardigan. That is one of my favorite

1082
01:06:09,280 --> 01:06:11,080
Speaker 1: articles of cloth. That's a that's a that's a great

1083
01:06:11,080 --> 01:06:14,680
Speaker 1: adam of point half. I can't remember the last time

1084
01:06:15,400 --> 01:06:18,560
Speaker 1: I was in an urban outfitters. Maybe with the indie

1085
01:06:18,640 --> 01:06:22,520
Speaker 1: sleeves revival, um, there will be an urban outfitters revival,

1086
01:06:22,600 --> 01:06:25,080
Speaker 1: which I think is you know, like I think now

1087
01:06:25,120 --> 01:06:30,760
Speaker 1: we can talk about the resurgence of indie sleeves so um.

1088
01:06:30,800 --> 01:06:33,200
Speaker 1: As much as I am not like a huge fan

1089
01:06:33,400 --> 01:06:37,800
Speaker 1: of trend forecasting, there are some people specifically on TikTok

1090
01:06:37,800 --> 01:06:40,680
Speaker 1: who do it really well. And there's this creator that

1091
01:06:40,720 --> 01:06:43,480
Speaker 1: I follow, Old Loser in Brooklyn Um. She makes a

1092
01:06:43,480 --> 01:06:45,800
Speaker 1: lot of tik talks about fashion and she is a

1093
01:06:45,800 --> 01:06:51,280
Speaker 1: trend forecaster. And this time last year she predicted the

1094
01:06:51,360 --> 01:06:55,320
Speaker 1: return of indie sleeves and she really was the first

1095
01:06:55,400 --> 01:06:59,720
Speaker 1: person who said this, and in the years since, we

1096
01:07:00,040 --> 01:07:05,080
Speaker 1: really have seen it come back. I think, both aesthetically

1097
01:07:05,400 --> 01:07:09,320
Speaker 1: and in our media. Um So, I would say that

1098
01:07:09,440 --> 01:07:12,680
Speaker 1: the things we're seeing, you know, most of all, are

1099
01:07:12,760 --> 01:07:16,600
Speaker 1: like the return of like outdated technology. You know, the

1100
01:07:16,640 --> 01:07:20,280
Speaker 1: original in the sleeves it was like record players and

1101
01:07:20,320 --> 01:07:25,080
Speaker 1: like polaroid cameras, and um now it's like the girlies

1102
01:07:25,160 --> 01:07:30,520
Speaker 1: who are wearing you know, wired iPhone headphones. Wired. Oh yeah, exactly.

1103
01:07:30,960 --> 01:07:34,120
Speaker 1: The return of ballet flats, which are I mean, I'm

1104
01:07:34,160 --> 01:07:38,560
Speaker 1: what I wore my my silver ballet flats are way

1105
01:07:38,720 --> 01:07:41,680
Speaker 1: too nice to be called ballet flats. Well, they but

1106
01:07:41,680 --> 01:07:46,120
Speaker 1: I mean they are literally ballet. It just feels it

1107
01:07:46,120 --> 01:07:49,640
Speaker 1: feels derogatory. But they're also like another thing. They're like

1108
01:07:49,760 --> 01:07:52,640
Speaker 1: they're silver and silver and chrome are a big thing

1109
01:07:52,720 --> 01:08:00,200
Speaker 1: that's coming back from leaving gold behind. Well, gold is

1110
01:08:00,240 --> 01:08:02,720
Speaker 1: like very this thing that's been happening in the past,

1111
01:08:02,840 --> 01:08:05,920
Speaker 1: like a couple of years, this whole clean girl aesthetic,

1112
01:08:06,000 --> 01:08:10,760
Speaker 1: the Hailey Bieber thing, the like slicked back hair, gold jewelry,

1113
01:08:10,880 --> 01:08:15,640
Speaker 1: and now we're going more towards like messy, glittery, dark

1114
01:08:15,800 --> 01:08:21,639
Speaker 1: makeup chrome like Effie Stone skins, Vibe skins if we're

1115
01:08:21,640 --> 01:08:26,560
Speaker 1: talking about indie sleeves. Skins was the moment. Yeah, And obviously,

1116
01:08:26,680 --> 01:08:30,200
Speaker 1: like and mentioned, this is also the resurgence of like

1117
01:08:30,240 --> 01:08:33,080
Speaker 1: early ots culture, which is maybe slightly different or has

1118
01:08:33,160 --> 01:08:37,240
Speaker 1: like overlap with like indie sleeves because you know, I

1119
01:08:37,240 --> 01:08:39,800
Speaker 1: feel like I'm always I've seen I now see so

1120
01:08:39,840 --> 01:08:44,200
Speaker 1: many girls out there with haircuts look like they're directly

1121
01:08:44,320 --> 01:08:48,599
Speaker 1: from two thousand seven. Well that was so I mean

1122
01:08:49,479 --> 01:08:53,080
Speaker 1: looking back at like that's when we saw the revival

1123
01:08:53,240 --> 01:08:57,960
Speaker 1: of Y two K. So we have now like this

1124
01:08:58,160 --> 01:09:02,880
Speaker 1: everything is cyclical, Everything happens in cycles, and like specifically

1125
01:09:03,040 --> 01:09:07,440
Speaker 1: these like twenty year cycles. So we had the resurgence

1126
01:09:07,520 --> 01:09:11,960
Speaker 1: of Y two K Mick Blane um, and now we're

1127
01:09:12,040 --> 01:09:17,799
Speaker 1: moving into indie sleas it's like this very natural progression um.

1128
01:09:17,840 --> 01:09:22,439
Speaker 1: And also you know the indy sleeves movement was, as

1129
01:09:22,439 --> 01:09:26,040
Speaker 1: we said the opening of the episode, a direct reaction

1130
01:09:26,120 --> 01:09:30,760
Speaker 1: to the Great Recession and what's happening right now. We're

1131
01:09:30,960 --> 01:09:36,720
Speaker 1: entering another recession, so of course we're looking to an

1132
01:09:36,720 --> 01:09:49,840
Speaker 1: aesthetic that can be achieved with less capital. You can

1133
01:09:50,040 --> 01:09:53,960
Speaker 1: follow us on Instagram at Like a Virgin, slide into

1134
01:09:53,960 --> 01:09:56,800
Speaker 1: our d m s. Tell us what your favorite UM

1135
01:09:56,840 --> 01:10:03,559
Speaker 1: indie band is. Tell us what fan tumbler you ran, Um,

1136
01:10:03,600 --> 01:10:06,280
Speaker 1: what are you excited about coming back in this INDI

1137
01:10:06,320 --> 01:10:08,280
Speaker 1: sleeve as a revival and what do you want to

1138
01:10:09,120 --> 01:10:12,120
Speaker 1: stay in the past. How many physical copies of a

1139
01:10:12,200 --> 01:10:16,400
Speaker 1: Sufian Stephen's album do you have? Zero? Zero? For me? Um?

1140
01:10:16,439 --> 01:10:19,000
Speaker 1: Please leave us a review on Apple podcast It helps

1141
01:10:19,080 --> 01:10:22,080
Speaker 1: us out so much. I'm your co host Rose Damn You.

1142
01:10:22,080 --> 01:10:24,680
Speaker 1: You can find me anywhere online at Rose Damn You

1143
01:10:24,920 --> 01:10:27,120
Speaker 1: and I'm Fran. You can find me at friends, squish co,

1144
01:10:27,320 --> 01:10:29,920
Speaker 1: anywhere you like, subscribe to Like a Virgin anywhere you

1145
01:10:29,960 --> 01:10:33,400
Speaker 1: listen to podcasts, and please leave us a rating on

1146
01:10:33,439 --> 01:10:36,920
Speaker 1: Spotify or review on Apple Podcasts. Even if it's a

1147
01:10:36,920 --> 01:10:40,600
Speaker 1: little sassy or salty, it really helps us out. Like

1148
01:10:40,680 --> 01:10:43,320
Speaker 1: a Virgin is an I Heeart Radio production our producers

1149
01:10:43,360 --> 01:10:48,200
Speaker 1: Phoebe Unter, with support from Lindsay Hoffman, Julian Weller, Jess Crane,

1150
01:10:48,240 --> 01:10:51,919
Speaker 1: Chitch and Nikki Eatur Until next week, See you later, Virgins,

1151
01:10:52,280 --> 01:10:52,360
Speaker 1: my