1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,120 Speaker 1: Welcome to five hundred Greatest Songs, a podcast based on 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:08,239 Speaker 1: Rolling Stones hugely popular, influential, and sometimes controversial list. I'm 3 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 1: Britney Spanis and. 4 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:11,639 Speaker 2: I'm Rob Sheffield and we're here to shed light on 5 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 2: the greatest songs ever made and discover what makes them 6 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:15,320 Speaker 2: so great. 7 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: And today we are going to talk about Maps by 8 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:20,799 Speaker 1: the Yeah Yeah Yeahs. That song originally was on It 9 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:22,440 Speaker 1: did make the two thousand and four list, came out 10 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: a year before the two thousand and four list, and 11 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:27,240 Speaker 1: then it was added to the twenty ten update and 12 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:29,760 Speaker 1: it was at number three eighty six on the twenty 13 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 1: ten update and came in at number one oh one 14 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 1: on the new list, So it jumped up a bunch. 15 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 1: I absolutely love this song. This was on my ballot 16 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 1: actually for greatest Songs. 17 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:40,480 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it was way up in my bud. It's yeah, 18 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:44,919 Speaker 2: absolutely one of the great iconic rock and roll love 19 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:45,599 Speaker 2: songs of all the time. 20 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 3: Yeah. 21 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 1: I feel like this was a song that was very 22 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:51,839 Speaker 1: very much in heavy rotation and Fuse and MTV two 23 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 1: at a very formative time for me. So it was 24 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 1: constantly watching Karen Oh kind of do the mic kind 25 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 1: of rotating thing on the video, which is one of 26 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 1: my favorite music videos of all time. 27 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:05,120 Speaker 2: It's so awesome. When did you hear it from the 28 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 2: first time? 29 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 1: Probably the year came out, so in two thousand and three, 30 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 1: and I feel like, yeah, it was the first time 31 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:14,760 Speaker 1: I had really heard any music from that kind of 32 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:18,120 Speaker 1: New York post punk revival scene. But the Ias were 33 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 1: my first kind of introduction. This was like an era 34 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 1: when I started to explore a lot more of rock 35 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:25,360 Speaker 1: music that was going on at the time, and a 36 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:29,679 Speaker 1: great time for rock music in that year specifically, amazing time. 37 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:31,680 Speaker 2: That was one of the great eras for rock music. 38 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:35,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, And what do you remember of hearing the Ias 39 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:36,319 Speaker 1: for the first time? You were living in New York 40 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 1: already by now, Yes. 41 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 2: They were the greatest band in town. Really exciting time 42 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:41,319 Speaker 2: to be in New York and be a fan of 43 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:43,400 Speaker 2: punk rock. There wasn't a time where it was a 44 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 2: lot of excitement on New York bands, specifically because the 45 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 2: nineties were a time when rock bands were just exploding 46 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 2: all over the world. There were so many great innovative 47 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 2: and experimental bands all over the world with such different approaches, 48 00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 2: and New York was really kind of lagging behind at 49 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 2: that time. It was really wild to have this moment 50 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 2: in the early two thousands where suddenly there's all this 51 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:09,360 Speaker 2: creative blowing up in New York that completely unlike anything 52 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 2: that anybody had seen in yours. 53 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, and what did you think when you first heard Maps, 54 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:17,640 Speaker 1: especially in contrast to the other music that they had 55 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 1: put out two EP's right before Fever to. 56 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,640 Speaker 2: Tell yeah yeah? It was so beyond what anybody thought 57 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 2: the Aeis could do. And I was the world's biggest 58 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 2: yeah yeah yeas fan at that time. In Maps was 59 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:29,960 Speaker 2: way beyond what anybody thought that they were capable of. 60 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 2: It was such an exciting time in general. It was 61 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 2: the meet Me in the Bathroom era. The story at 62 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 2: this moment told so brilliantly in Lizzie Goodman's book In 63 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 2: the Bathroom, which is one of the great rock books 64 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 2: of the century. But there was this exciting punk rock 65 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 2: scene in New York at the time. The Strokes had 66 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 2: such a huge role in instigating it. And there was 67 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:53,640 Speaker 2: bands like Interpol who are very like post punk, and 68 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 2: RD and Detached, and then there were the a Yeah Yeahs, 69 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 2: who were just very punk rock in your face, very already, 70 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:05,920 Speaker 2: very gothy, and very excitement oriented. In a way that 71 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:09,119 Speaker 2: was really new and exciting. Kareno always said that when 72 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:11,520 Speaker 2: she was a kid going to rock shows in New 73 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:13,680 Speaker 2: York and people would always sit on the floor and 74 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 2: just you know, just kind of sit on the floor, 75 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 2: zone out, listen, and she said that was my pet 76 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 2: peep people sitting on the floor. She said, we wanted 77 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:22,640 Speaker 2: to be a band where nobody would be able to 78 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 2: sit on the floor. It'd be a really like disco 79 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:29,359 Speaker 2: approach to punk rock in many ways, just everybody up, 80 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 2: everybody into it, very excitement oriented. 81 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:36,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, So Karen and Brian met first at Oberlin College 82 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 1: and then Karen transferred to NYU and she met Nick 83 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: and it was Karen and Nick were doing acoustic music, 84 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 1: which I had not known until I read Meet Me 85 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: in the Bathroom and kind of saw some of the 86 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: clips from it in the documentary, And so they were 87 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 1: an acoustic duo for a little bit and then decided 88 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 1: to kind of go a little bit more of on 89 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 1: punk and pay tribute to a lot of the bands 90 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 1: that all three of them loved growing up and were 91 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 1: huge fans of. And then they as were born, they 92 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 1: were kind of it seemed like a lot of people 93 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 1: in that scene immediately were taken by them in the 94 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 1: same way that you were. They were already opening for 95 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 1: The White Stripes and the Strokes and had so much 96 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 1: buzz building around them even before they were signed to 97 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 1: a major label and released Fever to Tell, which is 98 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:17,480 Speaker 1: one of one of the great albums, such a perfect. 99 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 2: Album, perfect album, seeing yeah, yeah, Yes, for the first time. 100 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 2: It was one of those life changing punk rock gigs 101 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 2: where everybody in the room has a new favorite band, 102 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:30,160 Speaker 2: you know, just a few minutes into the showy, absolutely explosive, 103 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 2: and it was funny because for them, they thought it 104 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 2: was kind of a goof at first. You know, Nick 105 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 2: and Karen were so serious about Unit Tard, which was 106 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 2: their their goth folk acoustic duo where it was very serious, 107 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 2: very long, slow, sad songs and just on a whim. 108 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 2: One night, Karen said, you know, it'd be really fun 109 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 2: to do a rock and roll band, and Nick just thought, 110 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 2: that's really played out. Why would anybody want to do that. 111 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 2: They came up with their name, their sound, their first song. 112 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 2: In about ten minutes. They were just like goofing around 113 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 2: and they came up with Bang, which is a phenomenal 114 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 2: song about you know, just like punk rock, punk rock, 115 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 2: people having sex, and it was a real party song. 116 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:12,719 Speaker 2: It was really dance floor song. It was a really 117 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 2: garage rock song. That was the mode that they were 118 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 2: working in so brilliantly. But Maps was a love song, 119 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:23,160 Speaker 2: power ballad in so many ways, and a soul song 120 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:23,800 Speaker 2: in so many ways. 121 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:25,839 Speaker 1: Yeah, what I always have really loved about Maps is 122 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:28,279 Speaker 1: it's there's a sparse neess to it, like it's really 123 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:31,720 Speaker 1: kind of you know, even just like that opening riff 124 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:33,599 Speaker 1: that's happening, and then the way the drums come in, 125 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 1: like there is something that feels like it's as big 126 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 1: as it is, Like there is like such a sparse 127 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:39,720 Speaker 1: ness to the way they attack it, whereas kind of 128 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 1: that you listen to a lot of the other songs 129 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 1: on Fever to Tell, and they're so just kind of 130 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 1: like messy and that like disco punkness, but there is 131 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 1: this kind of beautiful, kind of almost stripped downness in 132 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:52,480 Speaker 1: comparison to some of the other songs that they're known 133 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 1: for and from that era. And I think that works 134 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 1: so well for this type of love song because you 135 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:58,679 Speaker 1: can really hear kind of like the cracks and Karen's 136 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:01,360 Speaker 1: voice as you're saying wait on the chorus and kind 137 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:03,839 Speaker 1: of the minimalism of like the verses and stuff like, 138 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 1: it's just such a perfect, perfect low love song. 139 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:11,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's well. When Karen first started getting attention, people 140 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:12,919 Speaker 2: would talk about her in terms of, you know, the 141 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:17,839 Speaker 2: great goffy punk rock queens, you know, Susie Sue or 142 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 2: Patti Smith or Debbie Harry or Kate Bush. But you 143 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:26,279 Speaker 2: know it was for her growing up. Sam Cook was 144 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 2: her idol and you can hear a lot of that 145 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:30,600 Speaker 2: in Maps. She is singing from the heart in a 146 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 2: way that people were not expecting from her. 147 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:35,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's so much soul in the vocal delivery. And 148 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 1: I think again because the video was such like an 149 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 1: important part to how I think a lot of people 150 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 1: heard the song and kind of really fell in love 151 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:44,919 Speaker 1: with the band and with Karen as a front woman. 152 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 1: Like the way that she delivers that song in the 153 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 1: video is mesmerizing, like, and she's talked about it later 154 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:54,160 Speaker 1: on where it was so much because her boyfriend at 155 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 1: the time, Agus Andrews of the band Liars, who was 156 00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:59,720 Speaker 1: the inspiration for the song, showed up three hours late 157 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 1: to go on tour, Like she was genuinely upset and 158 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 1: really kind of you know, this was the guy who 159 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 1: inspired the song that she was so excited about not 160 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 1: showing up when he needed to show up. True bad 161 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 1: boyfriend in kind of like just pop rock history kind 162 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 1: of stuff, really affecting the way that she went into 163 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:21,240 Speaker 1: this performance and real tears that she's shedding in this 164 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 1: high school auditorium gymnasium situation where she's performing with the band, 165 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 1: and it's just like almost like for me, sort of 166 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 1: like changes the adds so much more sadness to the 167 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 1: song than when you actually just hear it without the video, 168 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 1: Where you hear without the video, there's so much like 169 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 1: kind of like hope with it, and then you see 170 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 1: the video and it's like, oh, this is like kind 171 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 1: of heartbreaking, and I think that's such a beautiful way of, 172 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: you know, flipping the song on its head. 173 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 2: The early two thousands were not a time when there 174 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 2: were women rock stars in the same way that there 175 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 2: were in the nineties. You know, the nineties was a 176 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 2: time when there were so many iconic, messy, chaotic, aggressive, 177 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 2: all sorts of different kinds of female rock stars and 178 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 2: completely dried up in the late nineties early two thousands 179 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 2: Karen was so she was out there by herself. It 180 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 2: was such a different thing to hear on the radio. 181 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 2: Definitely a different thing to see on MTV was to 182 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 2: see this female rock queen. 183 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 1: Yeah and I mean think one of the great rock 184 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 1: vocalists of all time too, Like I mean just like 185 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 1: an absolute powerhouse in that way. 186 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 2: Incredible. Well, The Yeah Yeah Yeahs is a live band 187 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 2: so phenomenal because three completely different kinds of musicians doing 188 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:33,079 Speaker 2: extremely individual stuff that somehow has this perfect combination. Brian 189 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 2: Chase one of the all time great rock drummers. He's 190 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 2: so loud on maps, He's got this distinctive sound. When 191 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 2: people imitate the song, which they do a lot, which 192 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 2: they will discuss, they always rip off Brian's drum sound, 193 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:48,560 Speaker 2: and yet nobody can do it. And he was a 194 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 2: serious avant garde jazz noise guy. He was, you know, 195 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 2: Anthony Brianxton is a huge inspiration for him. He was 196 00:08:56,520 --> 00:08:59,679 Speaker 2: in so many noise bands and was really interested in 197 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:02,960 Speaker 2: that of super abstract stuff. But he just brought so 198 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:05,679 Speaker 2: much heart and intensity to that kind of song you 199 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:07,839 Speaker 2: can't imagine it without him. Next is Inner, one of 200 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 2: the great guitar heroes of all time. 201 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean those are It's incredible to have a 202 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 1: song that only has one of the most iconic drum 203 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 1: beats of all time, but also one of the most 204 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:18,560 Speaker 1: iconic guitar riffs. Like it's just like such a perfect 205 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 1: combination happening on there. That's, like you said, a lot 206 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 1: of people have tried to rip off, which we can 207 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 1: get into, of course, we talked about in the Maxmartin 208 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:27,839 Speaker 1: episode Since You've Been Gone. There is no hiding in 209 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 1: the fact that the writers of Since You've Been Gone, 210 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:32,560 Speaker 1: Max Marten and Doctor Luke really wanted to do their 211 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:35,720 Speaker 1: own version of Maps because this was like a big 212 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 1: indie rock pop crossover moment, not even just for the 213 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 1: aa as, but for that entire scene. And you know, 214 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 1: they fell in love with that song much like millions 215 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 1: of other people around the world. And so Since She'd 216 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:49,559 Speaker 1: Been Gone was a song that was very much inspired 217 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 1: and kind of pulled from how Map sounds and sort 218 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 1: of that attitude and worked extremely well. 219 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 2: Extremely well. But if you happen to be a fan 220 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 2: of the aa yes or Maps, or you even knew 221 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 2: that song first time you heard Since You've Been Gone, 222 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:07,839 Speaker 2: you had to think, what are they thinking? You've got 223 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 2: to be kidding me. It was so obvious, it was 224 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 2: so funny, it was so great, just that turnaround in 225 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 2: the bridge where they even totally rip off that Brian 226 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 2: Chase drum sound. It's really great, and it's really kind 227 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 2: of beautiful tribute because this is the kind of song 228 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 2: that they're trying to do. They're trying to do a 229 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 2: very much Strokes ya ya yeahs kind of song in 230 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 2: a pop context and incredibly brilliantly. 231 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, and they pull it off. Kelly Clarkson was the 232 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 1: perfect person. 233 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 3: I do it. 234 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 2: Yes, it's funny that everybody in teen pop wanted to 235 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 2: rip that song. We cannot forget the great the legend 236 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 2: Ashley Simpson doing La La to Me, that is one 237 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:46,680 Speaker 2: of the gray pop hits of the two thousands, along 238 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 2: with Since You've Been Gone, could not be more blatant 239 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:52,079 Speaker 2: as a beautiful and brilliant rip of the ya yeah 240 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:52,960 Speaker 2: yeahs and Maps. 241 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:55,680 Speaker 1: I mean, I would say that the aaas were very 242 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:57,679 Speaker 1: very much kind of a blueprint for a lot of 243 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:00,320 Speaker 1: pop stars at this time in terms of kind of, 244 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:02,959 Speaker 1: you know, making more of a pop rock sound, kind 245 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 1: of that indie pop sound that a song like Maps 246 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 1: did so well, was the way that that spread across 247 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 1: pop music was so important, and that it's so much 248 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:13,679 Speaker 1: a part of a lot of early Ashley Simpson music. 249 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 1: You know, I would say even kind of goes as 250 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 1: far as when we get into like the Miley, Selena 251 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 1: Demi early years of their releasing music, there is kind 252 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 1: of you can kind of see that through line from 253 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 1: what was happening in indie rock and indie pop and 254 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 1: pop music in the early two thousands to like what 255 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:32,720 Speaker 1: they were doing even a decade later, like you could 256 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 1: still kind of hear that influence of a song like Maps, 257 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:37,840 Speaker 1: like everyone's still trying to make maps, even like a 258 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:40,680 Speaker 1: decade later in the in the teen pop sphere, the 259 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 1: song again continues to have so much life and even 260 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:45,440 Speaker 1: just a few years well, I don't know, I guess 261 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 1: it's been a while now. In my head, it happened 262 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 1: like two years ago. But with the album Lemonade, Beyonce 263 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:54,000 Speaker 1: interpolates Maps on the song hold Up and of course 264 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 1: has another another life for the song, which is I 265 00:11:57,400 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 1: mean that whole song is just like incredible, That whole 266 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 1: el was incredible, but like what a fun thing to 267 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 1: have Beyonce saying they don't Love You like I Love 268 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:06,440 Speaker 1: You on anything. 269 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 2: Well, a truly great and shocking moment is just that, 270 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:13,880 Speaker 2: the whole Lemonade experience and the whole like Lemonade event, 271 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:17,439 Speaker 2: and just what Beyonce did in terms of like this 272 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 2: song that is. I mean, honestly, the shock of Lemonade 273 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:22,960 Speaker 2: is hard to describe in so many ways, but hold 274 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 2: Up is definitely like a shocking part of it. And 275 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 2: then it was really a shock at the time to listen. 276 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 2: I remember that Saturday night of listening to Lemonade and 277 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 2: hold Up comes up, and it's extremely extremely surprising. Yeah, 278 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 2: it's funny because it was Lemonade came out the week 279 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 2: that Prince died, and Prince died on Thursday, and the 280 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 2: album came out on Saturday night and Friday night. The 281 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 2: Yeah Yeah Yes played a secret gig, a fans gig. 282 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 2: It was for a film festival in Karen's husband directed 283 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 2: a It was a documentary with the great rock photographer 284 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 2: Mick Rock. So they did a secret show and it 285 00:12:57,280 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 2: was really amazing because they hadn't played in a while, 286 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:01,559 Speaker 2: and because Bowie had just died. They did a set 287 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 2: of Bowie covers as a tribute. But because Prince had 288 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 2: just died the previous day. They did when You Were Mine, Yeah, 289 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:11,760 Speaker 2: as a beautiful Prince tribute and they had like dads 290 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:13,720 Speaker 2: from TV on the radio and it was just a 291 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 2: beautiful tribute. And afterwards I was thinking, Wow, they were 292 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 2: in a really good mood. They were really having fun, 293 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:20,200 Speaker 2: Like it was really kind of beautiful. And then you know, 294 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:23,960 Speaker 2: lemonade drops the next day at what message Nick that? 295 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 2: And I was like, now I understand why you guys 296 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:28,559 Speaker 2: were in such a cheerful mood yesterday. You had no 297 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:30,319 Speaker 2: idea you were about to have such a big weekend. 298 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:33,080 Speaker 2: But it was like, really just kind of beautiful that 299 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 2: the story of this song just never ends. 300 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to have your opinion on the indie 301 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 1: Slee's revival that people can't stop talking about. 302 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 4: And I feel like it's a weird. 303 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:44,200 Speaker 1: It's like a sort of like a fashion thing and 304 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 1: obviously pulls so much from Karen O and from the Aias, 305 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 1: and it's so much inspired by them. It's kind of 306 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:52,400 Speaker 1: funny to me that we haven't seen like more more 307 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 1: bands pop up sort of pulling from from this era 308 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:58,840 Speaker 1: and kind of have seen it resurface in a in 309 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 1: a musical way beyond just kind of like the aesthetic 310 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 1: and sort of the meet Me in the Bathroom of 311 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:04,959 Speaker 1: it all, beyond of course the music. So I was 312 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 1: wondering what your opinion then, do you feel like we're 313 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 1: going to see like another sort of revival of this 314 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 1: of the sound and of bands and artists kind of 315 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 1: inspired by by the aaas and a lot of their peers. 316 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 2: Absolutely, well, we're in a full blown Indie Sleeze moment, 317 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 2: which is, let's face it never going to end. Yeah, 318 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 2: it's just a timeless aesthetic. And it's funny that the 319 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:29,000 Speaker 2: name for it, Indie Sleeves, is pretty new. Nobody called 320 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 2: it that at the time, and it's one of those 321 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 2: things where a movement and an aesthetic gets a perfect 322 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 2: name after the fact. Nobody called rockabilly rockabilly in the fifties. 323 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 2: That name just came later. Nobody made film noir and 324 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 2: called it film noir. That came later. Indie Sleeze is 325 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 2: a perfect example of that. People didn't call it Indie 326 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 2: Sleeze at the time, but it's a perfect name for 327 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 2: what it was and what it means. And it's very 328 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 2: much driven by Meet Me in the Bathroom, which definitely 329 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 2: takes this moment and makes such a great, timeless rock 330 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 2: and roll story out of it. I feel like Indie 331 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 2: Sleeves is forever. 332 00:14:57,680 --> 00:14:57,880 Speaker 3: Yeah. 333 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:00,520 Speaker 1: I feel like, especially for a a lot of people 334 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 1: who were kind of teenagers in the two thousands and 335 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 1: reading like Nylon magazine and like Spin and all of that, Like, 336 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 1: there was so much absorbing of that scene that kind 337 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 1: of felt so distant, you know, it felt like such 338 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 1: a such so much more of like an adult scene 339 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: than than others. And I think that people are kind 340 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 1: of getting there at their chance to relive that, you know, 341 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 1: like and going and listening to a lot of those 342 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 1: bands and be able to see a lot of them 343 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 1: still live, which is also that the best part is 344 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 1: getting to kind of like go catch an NOLCA sound 345 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 1: System show, see the AAA, see like the Strokes and 346 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 1: all of that, and get to kind of live out 347 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 1: a lot of those those musical memories. 348 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, and so many of the bands from this moment, 349 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 2: you know, they had this Indiesley's moment that's iconic, but 350 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 2: they had long, amazing careers and the yeah yeah yeahs. 351 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 2: Although this is by far the most famous song, they 352 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 2: have one of the most astounding catalogs of rock music 353 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 2: of the past fifty years. Yeah, everything that they've done, 354 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:58,160 Speaker 2: they are still doing amazing albums to writing amazing songs, 355 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 2: still doing amazing live shows after twenty years when most 356 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:05,800 Speaker 2: people kind of thought that they'd be a just one 357 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 2: and done sort of you know, quick laugh, thanks for 358 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 2: the memories kind of Yeah, band that they had just 359 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 2: amazing staying power and so much that. I think it's 360 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 2: just because Karen O was a start at time when 361 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 2: she was a Korean American rock star at a time 362 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 2: when that was so unheard of. Definitely nothing like it 363 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 2: at that time in that sort of new metal era. 364 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 2: But it's such a exciting moment for all these bands 365 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 2: to be listening to each other, taking ideas from each other, 366 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 2: pop stars, punk rockers, rappers, always hearing each other at 367 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 2: festivals and ward shows, and being influenced by each other 368 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:43,080 Speaker 2: in these really exciting ways. The AA is obsessed with 369 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 2: Missy And while they were making their first album, they 370 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 2: were listening to Under Construction constantly, and the Missy Elliott 371 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 2: was their template for what they wanted to do. Timbaland 372 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 2: was what they wanted to do. They wanted something that 373 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 2: emotionally and musically comprehensive and exciting, and you can hear 374 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 2: a lot of that in Maps. It's really like very 375 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 2: much Missy Timbland's song in terms of just the emotion 376 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:05,199 Speaker 2: of it and also the experimentation of it. 377 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:07,880 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I had no idea that Missy was such 378 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:10,359 Speaker 1: a big influence on them, and also like beyond and 379 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:12,960 Speaker 1: of course you know just the amount of being alive 380 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:14,680 Speaker 1: and listening to Missy Elliott's hard not to be a 381 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:16,680 Speaker 1: super fan, but yeah, I know idea that there's such 382 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:19,640 Speaker 1: like a direct kind of inspiration on that era for them. 383 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:22,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, and under Construction such a classic Missy album, and 384 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:25,679 Speaker 2: it's funny. At the MTV Video and Music Awards in 385 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:28,160 Speaker 2: summer two thousand and four, Karen actually got to meet 386 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 2: Missy and she said, your heart is so big, we 387 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 2: get lost in that shit. I thought there was such 388 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:35,160 Speaker 2: a beautiful way to sum up Missy's impact on music, 389 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:37,160 Speaker 2: but also just how you can hear that in Maps, 390 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:39,120 Speaker 2: that just the idea of like a heart so big 391 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:39,879 Speaker 2: that you get lost in. 392 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 1: Also with the Map story, have you heard the theory 393 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:44,920 Speaker 1: about my angus please day being the reason? 394 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:46,080 Speaker 2: Why do tell? 395 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 1: I've heard this once and I haven't like let it go, 396 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 1: and one day I will find out from Kareno herself. 397 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:58,200 Speaker 1: When it happens, I'll share the wealth. But the theory 398 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:00,920 Speaker 1: is that MAP stands for my Angus Please day, of course, 399 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:04,440 Speaker 1: inspired by Angus Andrews of Liars, the inspiration for the song, 400 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:06,720 Speaker 1: the inspiration for the crying and the video, and I 401 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:08,920 Speaker 1: think that's perfect. I love that so much. 402 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 2: I love that. 403 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:13,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, So with the song being about Angus of 404 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 1: course using his own band, Liars, and there's a lot 405 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:17,880 Speaker 1: of theories that the song the Other Side of Mount 406 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:21,480 Speaker 1: heart Attack is sort of his response song to Maps, 407 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:23,520 Speaker 1: Like how do you feel about that theory? Do you 408 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 1: feel like that matches. 409 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 2: Up Liars such a great band themselves. I love a 410 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 2: lot of Liars albums. I'm intrigued by the idea of this. 411 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:31,200 Speaker 2: It's like this sort of like back forth dialogue. I 412 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 2: have to say, this is very brittany, like you're dying 413 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 2: to mention at least one of the Jonas brothers right now. 414 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:39,360 Speaker 1: I did think of them, and I have thought of them. 415 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 2: It's a very Disney Channel pop era approach to like 416 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:45,439 Speaker 2: punk rock. It's like who's the Hillary Duff and who 417 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:50,160 Speaker 2: is the Aaron Carter and who is the Jonas of this? 418 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 1: This musicians are dating. There's a song, and there's a 419 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 1: response song. It's just the way the world works, and 420 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 1: I don't want it any other way, you know. So 421 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 1: even if it's not that song, I feel like they're 422 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:02,679 Speaker 1: one in there. I'm gonna I'll dig through the Lyar's 423 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:04,239 Speaker 1: catalog later and try to find it. 424 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:07,960 Speaker 2: I love that well, just clearly part of what makes 425 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:13,360 Speaker 2: Maps the Driver's License of its era and an ongoing 426 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 2: story that will just keep getting rewritten in retail. 427 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:17,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll look for any songs with like a k 428 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:24,040 Speaker 1: in there. It's like my Karen. Please stay well, we'll 429 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 1: do we'll do some research on us. We are joined 430 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:33,120 Speaker 1: now by Rolling Stones Stuput music editor Julisa Lopez. Thank 431 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 1: you so much for joining us. 432 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 4: Guys, excited to be here. 433 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, so do you want to tell us a little 434 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 1: bit about maybe the first time that you heard Maps. 435 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:44,399 Speaker 3: I remember that album like when I discovered it, just 436 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:48,480 Speaker 3: like being something that I played over and over and over. 437 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:50,960 Speaker 4: I was obsessed with it. I was like in love 438 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:51,320 Speaker 4: with it. 439 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:52,840 Speaker 3: And I think part of it is because I grew 440 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:54,919 Speaker 3: up my parents were so strict I grew up so 441 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 3: like restricted and like had this like super Nicaraguan family 442 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 3: that wouldn't let me do anything, and there was so 443 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 3: much freedom on that album. It was like so free 444 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:07,199 Speaker 3: and chaotic. Karena was just like doing whatever she wanted. 445 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:09,200 Speaker 3: So I feel like when you discover that you're a 446 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:11,280 Speaker 3: teenager and you're like, oh my god, this is what 447 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 3: I want. Feel like having that feeling, especially like as 448 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:17,440 Speaker 3: a teenager when you feel restricted and then seeing you know, 449 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:19,399 Speaker 3: I think by the time then I got around to 450 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:22,240 Speaker 3: like the videos too, and like thinking about her live 451 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:24,320 Speaker 3: now just someone who went crazy when she was on 452 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 3: stage and she'd be like yelping and like making these 453 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:28,720 Speaker 3: like wild sounds. 454 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:30,879 Speaker 4: On stage that were so visceral. 455 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:33,480 Speaker 3: I think it was just like something that felt really 456 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 3: aspirational to me as someone who like wasn't again allowed 457 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:38,359 Speaker 3: to do anything because of my very in a Garagin family. 458 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:41,439 Speaker 3: I think it was also something about seeing Karena and 459 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:45,120 Speaker 3: such like a masculine sort of like rock centered world 460 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:47,719 Speaker 3: and also is like, you know, like a multi ethnic 461 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:50,120 Speaker 3: woman too who had that kind of freedom and who 462 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:51,239 Speaker 3: wasn't afraid to do that. 463 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 4: I think was like huge for me. 464 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 3: I remember like feeling like there was like a similar 465 00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:58,879 Speaker 3: like energy with like mia and like that kind of 466 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:01,639 Speaker 3: freedom and that like you know, fearlessness. 467 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:03,920 Speaker 4: I think that's a word that I associate with her 468 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 4: with her a lot. 469 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, And what was it about Maps and Fever to 470 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 1: tell that like really struck you musically and like drew 471 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:11,120 Speaker 1: you in? 472 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:13,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think, well, I mean with all a fever 473 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 3: to tell, I think it was just like the energy 474 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 3: on it, Like it was such like an adrenaline driven 475 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:22,359 Speaker 3: album and again so unrestrained and so unlike anything that 476 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:24,680 Speaker 3: I feel like was really happening at the time. And 477 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 3: this is like two thousand and three, Like I don't 478 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:28,919 Speaker 3: know what else is going on in two thom like 479 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:30,879 Speaker 3: I had like a Hillary Duff moment, Like it was 480 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 3: like a lot of it was just very very different to. 481 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:35,119 Speaker 2: A lot of new metal. 482 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:36,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, so much new metal. 483 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:37,679 Speaker 4: To too much new metal. 484 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:41,440 Speaker 3: But I used to think of Maps like in terms 485 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:43,359 Speaker 3: of like in the context of the album as almost 486 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:46,080 Speaker 3: being like this respite or this break from all of 487 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:50,000 Speaker 3: these like really energetic, punky songs on here and now 488 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:52,880 Speaker 3: that I kind of like was revisiting the album a lot, 489 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 3: especially in twenty twenty three when it when it turned twenty. 490 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 3: It's almost like I see it as like still being 491 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:00,679 Speaker 3: connected to this sense of freedom, right, just a different 492 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 3: type of freedom. It's like this fearlessness when it came 493 00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:05,280 Speaker 3: to vulnerability and this release of emotion that to me 494 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 3: feels tied to all of the other sense of relief 495 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:09,439 Speaker 3: that is on that album and that like sense of 496 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 3: release and the sense of like letting it all out. 497 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:13,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess we didn't really we didn't talk about 498 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:15,359 Speaker 1: the all the stuff that was happening in two thousand and 499 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:16,120 Speaker 1: three outside of. 500 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 4: The New York rock scene, which like I feel like. 501 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 1: Contextualized in the past. Was like so it feel goes 502 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 1: like there's like a butt rock new metal moment, like 503 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:26,760 Speaker 1: and it was. I feel like it was like so 504 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:30,080 Speaker 1: much Karen in sort of this like post punk moment, 505 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:32,400 Speaker 1: and then you had like Amy Lee kind of being 506 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:36,040 Speaker 1: the like the I think like soul Woman in that 507 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 1: new metal moment too, sort of just being kind of 508 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 1: like icons and kind of presenting something I don't know, 509 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:44,760 Speaker 1: unique in those specific. 510 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 4: Scenes for sure, for sure, I think too. 511 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:48,639 Speaker 3: What's interesting is that Maps is so different to what 512 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:50,520 Speaker 3: they were doing in general, but it was also just 513 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:52,720 Speaker 3: different to what was happening kind of. 514 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:54,720 Speaker 4: In both rock and mainstream pop. 515 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,520 Speaker 3: It is kind of like a weird song, Like it's 516 00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:01,480 Speaker 3: like this combination of like being like really vulnerable and 517 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 3: like you know, like having these like parts that are 518 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:06,240 Speaker 3: like harsher, but like it's. 519 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:09,479 Speaker 4: Also not like exactly like a super you know, like 520 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:11,960 Speaker 4: a yeah yeah yeah a song in a way. So 521 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:13,680 Speaker 4: it is a little bit of an ler I think 522 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 4: in a lot of ways on. 523 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 2: The earlier punkier indie stuff. That was like the first 524 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:21,760 Speaker 2: yaya yes that I heard, the first kind of stuff 525 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:25,679 Speaker 2: that started getting them attention. There was was all that bravado, 526 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 2: that freedom that you were talking about, that sort of ferocity, 527 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:30,879 Speaker 2: and for this song to be so vulnerable, which was 528 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,639 Speaker 2: such a change up. Even people who went into this 529 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:37,320 Speaker 2: album already like loving and worshiping the aa yes and 530 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 2: thinking Karen O could do everything. This song was a 531 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:45,399 Speaker 2: huge stretch. There was such a vulnerable, sad ballad, almost 532 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 2: like a soul song, and that everything you know, just 533 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:51,200 Speaker 2: everything about it so audacious, the guitar just like the 534 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:53,480 Speaker 2: way it begins with that drone and then it just 535 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:55,840 Speaker 2: starts to rock in that jagged way. This was just 536 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,480 Speaker 2: way beyond like even what people expected from them. 537 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:00,440 Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly. 538 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 3: And well then you have like the video too, where 539 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 3: like she's literally like in tears sobbing, like you know, 540 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:08,240 Speaker 3: in front of you, like with a camera like this 541 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:09,199 Speaker 3: close to her face. 542 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 4: So it was just that Yeah, that like sense of 543 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:12,960 Speaker 4: like bravery. I don't even know that. 544 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 3: I probably like thought of that as like being super 545 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 3: brave or like thinking about how vulnerable that that moment 546 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:22,560 Speaker 3: felt at the time. But in retrospect, I think that 547 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:26,480 Speaker 3: Karen now frequently gets associated with badassery for like that 548 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:28,959 Speaker 3: like on stage presence and for like racking out and 549 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 3: for like you know, like throwing stuff and like doing. 550 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:32,200 Speaker 4: Whatever she want. 551 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:34,200 Speaker 3: But I think that that moment is just as radical 552 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:36,159 Speaker 3: as anything else that they were they were doing. 553 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, that video was like very formative, Yeah, and 554 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,800 Speaker 1: got like heavy rotation on MTV, and like, yeah, it was. 555 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 4: It was a huge moment. 556 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:47,600 Speaker 3: And then they followed it up with why Control right, 557 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:54,760 Speaker 3: which was like horrifying Yeah too, But yeah that's Spike 558 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 3: Jones like directed. 559 00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:03,120 Speaker 4: Do you remember with the Kids? Yeah, I do love 560 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:05,200 Speaker 4: that song. It's like one of my favorites on there. 561 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:08,400 Speaker 3: But that video for some reason, like I remember too, 562 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:11,200 Speaker 3: like that's like kind of like when YouTube started entering 563 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 3: my life, and I remember that being like in high school, 564 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 3: Like the video, everybody was looking up on YouTube because 565 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 3: it was so so shocking. 566 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 4: But I think that's crazy too. 567 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:21,199 Speaker 3: The fact that the AAAS followed up the video for 568 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:23,679 Speaker 3: Maps with a video for why Control was kind of 569 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 3: like the f you like, we don't really want to 570 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 3: be on MTV. 571 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:28,280 Speaker 2: Well it's well, but you were saying about Fever to 572 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:31,440 Speaker 2: Tell and the whole album. It's such a brilliantly paced album. Yeah, 573 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 2: I mean it's paste almost like an old school disco album, 574 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:36,359 Speaker 2: where like just you know, there's this pulse all the 575 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:38,920 Speaker 2: way through it and then these slow songs like these, 576 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,800 Speaker 2: you know, Maps and modern Romance, greatest live dance I've 577 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:44,800 Speaker 2: ever seen. It's funny because when you see. 578 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,639 Speaker 3: A band again, I wasn't allowed to do anything, just 579 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:48,920 Speaker 3: like listening to them in my room. 580 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 2: And so you know when you see a band and 581 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 2: they're playing bars, and you see them every step along 582 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,720 Speaker 2: the way as they evolve and their music gets complex 583 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 2: and their audience gets more complex. So I used to 584 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:03,679 Speaker 2: see them at places like Hi Fi, which is you know, 585 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:08,280 Speaker 2: smaller than this room. Yes, I mean it was Brownies 586 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:12,159 Speaker 2: then yeah, like up on Avenue A and you know, 587 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:16,040 Speaker 2: Mercury Lounge, places like that, Mars Bar, and then seeing 588 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,760 Speaker 2: them over the years when they got to where they 589 00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,920 Speaker 2: were playing you know, larger rooms, they got to where 590 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 2: they were playing arenas, Yeah, and without losing any of 591 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:29,680 Speaker 2: their uniqueness and being almost more of themselves in an 592 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 2: arena even than they were in a bar. It's really 593 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 2: amazing that a band can evolve on that level without 594 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:38,879 Speaker 2: losing anything that made them special in original in the 595 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:42,879 Speaker 2: first place. Ye saw them at Forest Hills, which is 596 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:46,880 Speaker 2: like really beautiful with the Linda Linda's and Japanese brothers 597 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 2: and Kareno had these really beautiful words on stage she said, 598 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,160 Speaker 2: you know, like to be you know, with these three 599 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:57,480 Speaker 2: bands with like these like Asian women making punk rock. 600 00:26:57,640 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 2: Like She's like, well, you know, if I could go 601 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:01,840 Speaker 2: back in time, I'm telling little that this would be 602 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 2: something that could happen someday. And it was just really 603 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 2: like great to see them. You know, there's still one 604 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,280 Speaker 2: of the best live a dances on the planet. 605 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:11,439 Speaker 3: Yeah, but even like it's like sampled in like a 606 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:13,440 Speaker 3: Black Eyed Peas song, which is great and like meet 607 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 3: me halfway like the guitar wait, So it's yeah, I 608 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:24,160 Speaker 3: mean it's still I. 609 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 4: Didn't know that very much. 610 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 2: That's crazy. 611 00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 1: I love that song, No Wonder. 612 00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 4: I love that song has Maps in it. 613 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:37,280 Speaker 3: One of my favorite but you might know them because 614 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,120 Speaker 3: they're this Australian band that I love called camp Cope. 615 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,879 Speaker 3: Also did like one of my favorite versions of Maps, 616 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 3: like a cover for like an LJ session that is 617 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,880 Speaker 3: so good and I love camp Cope. 618 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:54,920 Speaker 4: There's Georgia Mac Yeah, Georgia one of the conference's amazing. 619 00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:57,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, three of them are amazing. Yeah. 620 00:27:57,720 --> 00:27:59,320 Speaker 3: So the way that like that song I think keeps 621 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,200 Speaker 3: having like keeps coming back, and I mean is in 622 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:06,399 Speaker 3: Beyonce's you know work and kind of keeps keeps sloping back, 623 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:08,440 Speaker 3: I think speaks so much to the to the resonance 624 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:12,960 Speaker 3: of it and kind of the emotional weight of it. Yeah. 625 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 1: I feel like on a lot of the recurring theme, 626 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:17,880 Speaker 1: I guess in a lot of the songs that Rob 627 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:19,640 Speaker 1: and I chose for this podcast and also that we've 628 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:23,920 Speaker 1: just you know, gravitated towards are these songs especially by 629 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,679 Speaker 1: women who kind of have had so many different legs 630 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:28,679 Speaker 1: of their career and like so many different kind of 631 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,760 Speaker 1: ways they've reached out to a new generation of artists 632 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 1: or have inspired continuously just like you know, whoever's coming 633 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 1: through music, but also new listeners and things like that. 634 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:42,800 Speaker 1: And I'm curious kind of like where you see Karen 635 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 1: O in the future with that, because I think we 636 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,680 Speaker 1: are kind of seeing this continuous life of a song 637 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,960 Speaker 1: like Maths, but also just of the aas as a band, 638 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 1: as an influence on music, Karen as a as a 639 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:55,920 Speaker 1: figure for I think a lot of women who want 640 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,800 Speaker 1: to sing in a punk band and kind of even 641 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 1: just having like the Linda Lindez and Japanese Breakfast on 642 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:04,320 Speaker 1: a bill with them is such a great tribute to 643 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,040 Speaker 1: that just you know, even just like in age range 644 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:09,200 Speaker 1: and kind of influence and like the styles of music 645 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 1: they're doing. Yeah, I'm curious, like what you kind of 646 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:14,080 Speaker 1: see that future of the Yea Yeahs and Karen in 647 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:14,520 Speaker 1: the future. 648 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:16,280 Speaker 3: I mean, I still see her like continuing to like 649 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:19,320 Speaker 3: inspire like an entirely new generation. Like I think it's 650 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 3: only going to keep going, and I think people are 651 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:25,040 Speaker 3: only going to keep discovering the music, and that song 652 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:27,840 Speaker 3: in particular, I think is such like an interesting entry 653 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:29,840 Speaker 3: point I mean the whole band has always done that 654 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 3: and found like a way to kind of preserve this 655 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,720 Speaker 3: really artistic lane that they're in without it, like you 656 00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 3: were saying, giving up any any of who they are. Yeah. 657 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that they've found the magic formula for you know, 658 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:43,720 Speaker 2: three very different people for staying together as a band 659 00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,720 Speaker 2: just by giving each other so much room. I mean, 660 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:49,080 Speaker 2: it's really amazing that there's still a band, that there's 661 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 2: still a brilliant band. They make great records, they do 662 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 2: great live shows, but they've never been on that treadmill 663 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:56,600 Speaker 2: where they're forcing themselves to do stuff they don't want. 664 00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 4: Yeah. 665 00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:58,400 Speaker 2: It's really inspiring. 666 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:00,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, and they're like taking breaks, I feel like, always 667 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,440 Speaker 3: just kind of done like what they feel like doing so. 668 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:06,000 Speaker 4: Preserve a specialist. 669 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:13,239 Speaker 2: Karen's Opera was great and her her solo uh uh 670 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:17,480 Speaker 2: Korean American rock solo project was like that was fantastic. 671 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 3: Yeah. 672 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:21,480 Speaker 2: And you know, Brian Chase is like so many like 673 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 2: noise projects centers, so many metal projects that he's in. Yeah, 674 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:30,320 Speaker 2: they all find their way to combine the extreme things 675 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:33,000 Speaker 2: that they do on their own with this band identity. 676 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:34,440 Speaker 2: Karena's danger Mouse. 677 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:38,080 Speaker 3: Record, Yeah forgot about Yeah, or like collaborating with people 678 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 3: like Perfume Genius. Yeah. I feel like they're always like 679 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 3: identifying kind of where they fit it, which is the 680 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 3: brilliant part. 681 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:46,320 Speaker 1: Yeah. 682 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:48,959 Speaker 3: She's also done a bunch of stuff with Spike Jones 683 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 3: over the year. She had like, I think they've collaborated 684 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:54,560 Speaker 3: on a song for her and stuff for Where the 685 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 3: Wild Things Are. 686 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:57,280 Speaker 4: So she's kind of been, she's kind of been everywhere. 687 00:30:57,560 --> 00:30:59,760 Speaker 2: She was on the Oscars doing that song from her 688 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:03,160 Speaker 2: and the little Robos looked like Ezra from Vampire Weekend. 689 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:07,000 Speaker 3: Like, well, thank you so much for joining us, Thanks 690 00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:08,920 Speaker 3: for letting me talk about Karen. 691 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:14,560 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for listening to Rolling Stone's five hundred 692 00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:17,880 Speaker 1: Greatest Songs. This podcast is brought to you by Rolling 693 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:21,680 Speaker 1: Stone and iHeartMedia. Rinnen Hosted by me Britney. 694 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:23,000 Speaker 2: Spanos, Emmy rob Sheffield. 695 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:27,720 Speaker 1: Executive produced by Jason Fine, Alex Dale and Christian Horde. 696 00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 1: Produced by Jesse Cannon with music supervision by Eric Siler. 697 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:32,920 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for watching and listening.