WEBVTT - Short Stuff: The Guinness Widget

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, and welcome to short Stuff. I'm Josh and there's

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<v Speaker 1>Chuck and we're talking short stuff today. We're talking widgets

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<v Speaker 1>on short stuff. I should say widgets that were first

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<v Speaker 1>introduced as a concept from a play, right, Chuck.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean there was the word. First of all,

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<v Speaker 2>we need to think our old buddy Brian Didsbury. Oh right,

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<v Speaker 2>the boom operator on the stuff. You should know a

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<v Speaker 2>TV show so great, who comes to our live shows?

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<v Speaker 2>Still a friend. He texted me all the time trying

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<v Speaker 2>to get me to play Red Dead Redemption with him online.

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<v Speaker 1>He texted me Simpson's quotes.

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<v Speaker 2>Does he really? Oh? Did he text you about this too?

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<v Speaker 1>No?

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, Yeah, he texted me a couple of days ago

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<v Speaker 2>and it's like, hey man, how about one on the

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<v Speaker 2>Guinness widget. I was like, done, buddy, it's a good idea,

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<v Speaker 2>for sure it is, and said thanks to Guinness dot com.

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<v Speaker 2>How stuff works, conservable, conversible, economist, petroleum service company? Where

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<v Speaker 2>else YouTube?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's pretty much it.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, anyway, get widgets. Everybody thinks it's basically a spinoff

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<v Speaker 2>of the word gadget, which is probably true. We don't

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<v Speaker 2>know the true etymology, but I believe It was in

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<v Speaker 2>a play in nineteen twenty four where they specifically in

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<v Speaker 2>the play talked about like we're in the widget business,

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<v Speaker 2>and that maybe like the first time that anyone had

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<v Speaker 2>ever used it like that. But then Guinness came along

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<v Speaker 2>and said, well, you know what everyone talks about, widgets

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<v Speaker 2>is just a thing you make, a nameless thing you

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<v Speaker 2>make at any company. We're going to make a real thing,

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<v Speaker 2>and we're really going to call it a widget and

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<v Speaker 2>get it patented as such.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and they did. It's this thing that makes canned

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<v Speaker 1>guinness much more like Guinness from the tap, which is

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<v Speaker 1>actually much more like Guinness from a cask, because Guinness

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<v Speaker 1>is its own kind of thing. As a matter of fact,

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<v Speaker 1>I say we dig into how Guinness' is Guinness.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right. I think we should prep people that this simple, simple,

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<v Speaker 2>little short stuff was a cause of a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>emails and consternation between us today.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, is it simple?

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<v Speaker 2>I think? So?

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<v Speaker 1>All right, Well, I think you should take the lead.

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<v Speaker 2>In basically a pong ball.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, yes, the widget is simple, right, so let's talk

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<v Speaker 1>about what we're talking about. If you open a can

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<v Speaker 1>of Guinness and just the can, it's not in the bottle.

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<v Speaker 1>There's a little plastic sphere with a hole in the

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<v Speaker 1>bottom that you will hear rattling around the can if

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<v Speaker 1>you cut the can open very gently, set one aside,

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<v Speaker 1>and then be very careful holding the other one up

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<v Speaker 1>because it's a slice can. They're very dangerous. And look

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<v Speaker 1>inside you'll see this little plastic sphere that is the

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<v Speaker 1>Guinness widget. And there's no, it's not that big, is

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<v Speaker 1>it now?

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<v Speaker 2>That looks a little smaller.

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<v Speaker 1>But could you though, does it have bounce to it?

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<v Speaker 2>M I doubt it because it's not it's not full

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<v Speaker 2>of air, okay, and it's heavier. I was just making it.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, Well, I didn't know. I could see that being

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<v Speaker 1>like a thing that the Internet figured out.

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<v Speaker 2>I bet they've done that in Ireland. And by the way,

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<v Speaker 2>Guinness calls these officially within the Guinness Company, they call

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<v Speaker 2>it smooth.

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<v Speaker 1>The fire okay, So everybody else calls it a widget then, yeah, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>So they put this in there and only God themself

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<v Speaker 1>knows how they work.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, let's talk a little bit about a guy named

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<v Speaker 2>Michael Ash. In nineteen fifty one, Michael Ash joined the

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<v Speaker 2>Guinness Company. He was a mathematician he's a master brewer.

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<v Speaker 2>He was a big believer in science, and he was like, hey,

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<v Speaker 2>there's all these beers that are made with carbon dioxide,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's that CO two that dissolves in the beer

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<v Speaker 2>that makes it fizzy when you open it up. When

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<v Speaker 2>the can is closed, the pressure inside is much higher

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<v Speaker 2>than the pressure outside. So when you open that thing up,

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<v Speaker 2>there's a pressure drop and the agitation of pouring it

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<v Speaker 2>makes that CO two come bubbling out, and that's where

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<v Speaker 2>you get your foamy head on a beer.

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<v Speaker 1>Right.

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<v Speaker 2>He was like, this cask guinness is smooth and creamy

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<v Speaker 2>and CO two just doesn't do it. If we're going

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<v Speaker 2>to try and put the stuff in pubs and eventually

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<v Speaker 2>in cans.

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<v Speaker 1>No, no, So if you have a cask, the beer

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<v Speaker 1>that's put into the cask, it ages in the cask,

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<v Speaker 1>like when you deliver it to a pub, it's still

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<v Speaker 1>doing its thing aging and once you tap the cask

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<v Speaker 1>you have three days to drink it. That's how unpasteurized

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<v Speaker 1>and new it is. But the thing is is when

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<v Speaker 1>you get the beer out of the cask, you have

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<v Speaker 1>to actually pump it out, and that creates like a

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<v Speaker 1>totally different pour and finish than if you're pouring it

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<v Speaker 1>out of a cake. So, because the world kind of

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<v Speaker 1>transitioned from casks to kegs around the middle of the

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<v Speaker 1>twentieth century, Michael Ashen was like, well, then, what can

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<v Speaker 1>we do to make guinness more cask like or keep

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<v Speaker 1>its cask like profile and look and taste and everything.

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<v Speaker 1>And he figured out that adding nitrogen is what would

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<v Speaker 1>do that.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right, and you know what, I think that's a

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<v Speaker 2>good little cliffhanger. Okay, so let's take a break and

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<v Speaker 2>we'll talk about the magic inside the Guinness can and

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<v Speaker 2>glass right after this. All right, So where we left off,

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<v Speaker 2>Michael ash had discovered that nitrogen along with it's not

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<v Speaker 2>it doesn't replace the CEO two. It's a mixture of

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<v Speaker 2>the carbon dioxide and nitrogen, but nitrogen isn't absorbed into

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<v Speaker 2>the beer like carbon dioxide is. So it it has

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<v Speaker 2>the same pressure of just a regular beer, but it

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<v Speaker 2>has a lot less CO two, and so it's not

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<v Speaker 2>as physy, which is not what you want out of

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<v Speaker 2>a Guinness anyway, because that nitrogen is making up a

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<v Speaker 2>great deal of that pressure inside the can.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, and even though it's harder for nitrogen to dissolve

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<v Speaker 1>inside beer CO two. It's very easy. Nitrogen will some

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<v Speaker 1>will dissolve and it forms smaller bubbles and more stable

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<v Speaker 1>bump bubbles. So when you pour this nitrogen infused Guinness beer,

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<v Speaker 1>the the head will be foamier, much creamier than say

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<v Speaker 1>like a CO two loggerhead that eventually kind of settles

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<v Speaker 1>down and looks like urine in a glass after a while,

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<v Speaker 1>especially if we're talking about cores banquet beer. This is

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<v Speaker 1>like a foamy head that, because the nitrogen bubbles are

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<v Speaker 1>more stable, stays around way longer too. So he figured

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<v Speaker 1>out by adding nitrogen and you can basically replicate the

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<v Speaker 1>look and the feel and the taste of cask poor

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<v Speaker 1>Guinness like it used to be.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right. So the next step was like how do

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<v Speaker 2>I make this happen in a can? It seemed like

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<v Speaker 2>an impossibility until a guy named John Lunn l u

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<v Speaker 2>n N, a master distiller, created the widget the patent.

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<v Speaker 2>I believe Guinness eventually filed for the patent in sixty

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<v Speaker 2>nine for an improved method of and means of dispensing

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<v Speaker 2>carbonated liquids from containers. It began as a Project Dynamite,

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<v Speaker 2>but apparently there was a lot of that was problematic

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<v Speaker 2>for customs because it said Project Dynamite on all the

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<v Speaker 2>paperwork and stuff. So yeah, yeah, so they changed it

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<v Speaker 2>to Project oak Tree.

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<v Speaker 1>They changed with the Project Dino mi right.

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<v Speaker 2>They changed it to Project Nuclear Waste. Now Project oak

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<v Speaker 2>Tree I think was a reference to the original Project

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<v Speaker 2>Acorn from Guinness. So they wanted to get these cans

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<v Speaker 2>right that you can get Guinness in a bottle, but

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<v Speaker 2>it's not the same beer at all. It's completely different beer.

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<v Speaker 1>So like the you like the canned version better? Huh

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<v Speaker 1>oh yeah, okay, the pub version. I might not be

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<v Speaker 1>doing it right then, because I'm like, what is this crap?

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<v Speaker 1>Like this is I would rather just drink the Guinness

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<v Speaker 1>out of a bottle any day of the week.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, do you like Guinness in a pub?

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know that I've ever actually had real Guinness

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<v Speaker 1>in a pub?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh Josh, Because it''m taking you to England next week.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, that'd be awesome, you like really?

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<v Speaker 2>Yea, that just surprises me.

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<v Speaker 1>I must not import it correctly because it doesn't make

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<v Speaker 1>any sense that they would even go to this trouble

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<v Speaker 1>of putting a widget in it to make worse guinness

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<v Speaker 1>than it is in the bottle. So I just didn't

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<v Speaker 1>do it right, that's my guess.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, maybe you just don't understand the concept of guinness.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, guinness is supposed to go down like a

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<v Speaker 2>milk and not a fizzy carbonated beverage. It's got They

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<v Speaker 2>call it the surge and settle. It pours in and

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<v Speaker 2>you just see it gently falling to the bottom and

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<v Speaker 2>you get this milky foam at the.

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<v Speaker 1>Top the cascade.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and like that's why I could always drink a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of guinness because it didn't it didn't fill you

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<v Speaker 2>up and make you super gassy and burpie.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow. So I've been doing the opposite because drinking a

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<v Speaker 1>single bottle of guinness is like eating a whole loaf

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<v Speaker 1>of bread to me.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's the bottle is completely different.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow. Okay, So I got to try this other version

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<v Speaker 1>because what you're talking about is basically the opposite of

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<v Speaker 1>the guinness I'm familiar with.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh wow, that is that.

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<v Speaker 1>That's funny, Like I really want to try it, Like

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<v Speaker 1>you've just blown my mind.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Oh man, go out and get a four pack

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<v Speaker 2>and crack the can open and then just dump it

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<v Speaker 2>in the glass as hard as you can. Just turn

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<v Speaker 2>it upside down, okay, and it won won't overflow or anything.

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<v Speaker 2>It'll get to the top and just stop and then

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<v Speaker 2>start settling.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, there's this other thing they have now too, that

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<v Speaker 1>I guess kind of takes the whole thing into a

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<v Speaker 1>new level. It's called nitro surge.

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<v Speaker 2>It's like I saw that.

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<v Speaker 1>You put it on top of the can and it

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<v Speaker 1>does it does the pouring like it would from a cask,

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<v Speaker 1>as far as I understand, right there at home, or

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<v Speaker 1>you know, in the parking lot of a convenience store.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I saw the nitro surge. I don't think they

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<v Speaker 2>sell them here yet, but it's like a I think

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<v Speaker 2>it's like a mechanical device, like does I have a

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<v Speaker 2>battery in it? Even I'm not fully sure. I stopped

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<v Speaker 2>to look into it when I realized how much further

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<v Speaker 2>it was taking me away from the widget. You know

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<v Speaker 2>what I mean?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, I forgot. We were talking about the widget.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, Let's get back to the widget.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>So the widget is a little plastic ball, and I

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<v Speaker 2>think this is where we got hung up earlier. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know if you saw my most recent email, I

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<v Speaker 2>think it's a matter of semantics, because I kept saying

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<v Speaker 2>that the in Guinness on their website says it's a

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<v Speaker 2>nitrogen filled sphere, and you're like, it's not filled with nitrogen.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's just semantics because they don't literally fill

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<v Speaker 2>this ball with nitrogen and then drop it in Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>they can't. It is because it has a hole in it.

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<v Speaker 2>It's you drop it in there and then fill the

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<v Speaker 2>can with nitrogen, and then that ball fills up with

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<v Speaker 2>nitrogen and beer, gotcha, got and it stays in this

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<v Speaker 2>tiny It's basically a little mini turbojet. So when you

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<v Speaker 2>crack that beer, it's a little mini ball with higher

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<v Speaker 2>pressure than the rest with then even what's inside the

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<v Speaker 2>rest of the can. And so when you crack that

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<v Speaker 2>beer and all that pressure changes, just like a regular beer,

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<v Speaker 2>it comes shooting out of that little tiny hole in

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<v Speaker 2>the plastic ball and provides this little extra boost of

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<v Speaker 2>nitrogen like a little beer jet, agitating everything to create

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<v Speaker 2>even more bubbles.

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<v Speaker 1>Right. But the specific kind of nitrogen bottles that make

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<v Speaker 1>Guinness Guinness, which are smaller and more stable, so you

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<v Speaker 1>get that foamy, creamy head in the cascade and all

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<v Speaker 1>that I get me. Yeah, all right, he did a

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<v Speaker 1>great job.

0:11:58.000 --> 0:12:00.000
<v Speaker 2>I think it was the semantical thing when people say

0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:02.880
<v Speaker 2>it's filled with nitrogen. It is, but as a virtue

0:12:02.880 --> 0:12:05.800
<v Speaker 2>of the canning process, they don't like fill it up

0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:07.920
<v Speaker 2>and go like quick throw it in there. Right.

0:12:08.520 --> 0:12:10.320
<v Speaker 1>You have to hold it just right, put your thumb

0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:12.040
<v Speaker 1>over the hole, and then just throw it in and

0:12:12.080 --> 0:12:13.679
<v Speaker 1>put the top of the can on really quick.

0:12:14.160 --> 0:12:16.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. It's really ingenious though. I mean it's got this

0:12:16.080 --> 0:12:19.240
<v Speaker 2>this tiny little hole and imagine a little ball filled

0:12:19.240 --> 0:12:21.840
<v Speaker 2>with like nitrogen infused beer being jetted out of this

0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:24.840
<v Speaker 2>tiny little hole as you're pouring, as you've opened and

0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:29.440
<v Speaker 2>pouring this beer. It's so simple, it's ingenious and so

0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:32.120
<v Speaker 2>ingenious that in two thousand and four they did a

0:12:32.160 --> 0:12:36.120
<v Speaker 2>survey of almost nine thousand people and they voted that

0:12:36.280 --> 0:12:38.920
<v Speaker 2>the Guinness widget was a greater invention than the Internet.

0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:43.319
<v Speaker 1>Right, and they're prong. But I get the point for sure.

0:12:43.920 --> 0:12:45.559
<v Speaker 2>I mean it's something to put on your website.

0:12:46.200 --> 0:12:48.319
<v Speaker 1>I guess it depends which version of the Internet you're

0:12:48.360 --> 0:12:49.200
<v Speaker 1>talking about, you know.

0:12:50.160 --> 0:12:52.520
<v Speaker 2>Let me ask you this. Have you ever had any

0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:57.080
<v Speaker 2>like cream stouts? Yeah, like on Bodding Ten's or Murphy's

0:12:57.160 --> 0:12:57.720
<v Speaker 2>or any of those.

0:12:57.880 --> 0:13:01.760
<v Speaker 1>Yes, okay, yeah, the guinness, Like I just associated a

0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:05.360
<v Speaker 1>stout with like like I just had dinner three hours ago.

0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:08.680
<v Speaker 1>I can't drink a stout because I'll throw up, I'll

0:13:08.720 --> 0:13:09.400
<v Speaker 1>be too full.

0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:14.320
<v Speaker 2>Yes, I think that's uh. To my mind, it's a

0:13:14.360 --> 0:13:18.760
<v Speaker 2>misnomer because stout sounds heavy because it's a big, dark beer.

0:13:19.800 --> 0:13:23.800
<v Speaker 2>But it's because it's not heavily carbonated like a lagger like.

0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:26.000
<v Speaker 2>It doesn't fill you up like that. It doesn't make

0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:28.640
<v Speaker 2>you gassy and burpie. It's like drinking a big thick milk,

0:13:28.720 --> 0:13:31.400
<v Speaker 2>which may make you feel full, but it's not from

0:13:31.880 --> 0:13:32.680
<v Speaker 2>like gassy fuls.

0:13:32.720 --> 0:13:36.760
<v Speaker 1>Okay, we're getting tripped up by semantics again. It to me, yeah,

0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:39.360
<v Speaker 1>the big milky thing. If I drank a big glass

0:13:39.400 --> 0:13:42.240
<v Speaker 1>of milk after I ate, I would probably throw up.

0:13:42.559 --> 0:13:44.520
<v Speaker 1>So it's the same thing in that sense. But no,

0:13:44.600 --> 0:13:47.280
<v Speaker 1>it's not making me like you know, like Coors Bankwetpeer

0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:51.600
<v Speaker 1>would rap burpie or whatever. Yeah. Yeah, it doesn't fill

0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:54.559
<v Speaker 1>you up in that sense. It like literally fills you up.

0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:55.600
<v Speaker 2>I gotcha.

0:13:55.720 --> 0:13:58.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So yeah, I think we're talking about the same thing. Well,

0:13:58.679 --> 0:14:01.520
<v Speaker 1>now I'm worried that I have experienced Guinness like you're

0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:04.319
<v Speaker 1>supposed to, and there's not like a whole world out

0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:06.960
<v Speaker 1>there for me to try. Well, you may not like it,

0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:10.280
<v Speaker 1>I'll try it for sure. I haven't.

0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:12.559
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I don't drink a lot of beer anymore period.

0:14:12.640 --> 0:14:15.559
<v Speaker 2>And I went through a big Guinness phase in the nineties,

0:14:16.720 --> 0:14:19.400
<v Speaker 2>starting in college and through New Jersey. And in fact,

0:14:19.400 --> 0:14:22.960
<v Speaker 2>that brings me to another little factoid here. The Guinness

0:14:23.040 --> 0:14:26.880
<v Speaker 2>uses a floating widget since nineteen ninety seven. And I

0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:28.960
<v Speaker 2>was like, oh, that explains it, because in the nineties

0:14:29.000 --> 0:14:30.640
<v Speaker 2>we cut open the can because we were like, what

0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:32.920
<v Speaker 2>is that in there? And it was fixed to the

0:14:32.960 --> 0:14:35.920
<v Speaker 2>bottom of the can, So it was pre ninety seven

0:14:36.200 --> 0:14:38.480
<v Speaker 2>and during COVID with supply issues they fixed it to

0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:41.280
<v Speaker 2>the bottom of the can then as well. But otherwise

0:14:41.320 --> 0:14:42.640
<v Speaker 2>it's been a floating widget.

0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:45.000
<v Speaker 1>Wouldn't you have been freaked out when you cut the

0:14:45.040 --> 0:14:47.080
<v Speaker 1>can open and you found the thing just fixed to

0:14:47.120 --> 0:14:48.800
<v Speaker 1>the bottom of the can looking back up at you

0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:49.640
<v Speaker 1>and blink.

0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:52.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like little irish Eyeball right.

0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:57.000
<v Speaker 1>One other thing, though, there's a I noticed on this

0:14:57.080 --> 0:15:00.640
<v Speaker 1>list an old speckled hen uses widget to which I

0:15:00.640 --> 0:15:02.440
<v Speaker 1>didn't know that used to be one of my faith

0:15:02.600 --> 0:15:03.520
<v Speaker 1>beers for a while.

0:15:04.280 --> 0:15:08.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and the Bodington's, Murphy's Beamish, tet Lee's, what else,

0:15:08.680 --> 0:15:11.440
<v Speaker 2>Wexford bell Haven And I'm sure we've missed some, but

0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:15.880
<v Speaker 2>they all use the widget technology to deliver that pub

0:15:16.520 --> 0:15:20.880
<v Speaker 2>pub drawn flavor to your lips right there at home.

0:15:21.720 --> 0:15:23.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. This episode is Short Stuff, brought to you by

0:15:24.000 --> 0:15:28.320
<v Speaker 1>Corus Banquet Beer. Right. Yeah, I doubt that you got

0:15:28.320 --> 0:15:28.880
<v Speaker 1>anything else.

0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:31.400
<v Speaker 2>I got nothing else. I'm sure we got some stuff wrong.

0:15:31.400 --> 0:15:33.800
<v Speaker 2>There's some beer fishonados that are like, I'm not quite right.

0:15:33.680 --> 0:15:36.560
<v Speaker 1>Guys, whatever I think you should say the thing.

0:15:37.200 --> 0:15:43.360
<v Speaker 2>Okay, Short Stuff is out. Stuff you should know is

0:15:43.360 --> 0:15:46.760
<v Speaker 2>a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts my heart Radio,

0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:50.000
<v Speaker 2>visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

0:15:50.080 --> 0:15:56.360
<v Speaker 1>You listen to your favorite shows.