1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,440 Speaker 1: I'm manny, and this is no such thing. The show 2 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:08,119 Speaker 1: where we settle our dumb arguments and yours by actually 3 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:13,080 Speaker 1: doing the research. On today's episode, does RFK Junior have 4 00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 1: a point? 5 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 2: There's no no such thing, no such thing. 6 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 3: Such than such than such. Thank you? 7 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:35,840 Speaker 1: All right, how's it going, guys? Good as you can see. 8 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 1: I'm set up it with all these boxes around me. 9 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:39,720 Speaker 4: How is the move? 10 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:43,519 Speaker 1: It was fine. I think I went through like all 11 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: of the classic moving processes where you think you don't 12 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 1: have that much until it's the day before, and then 13 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 1: you're like, how the hell do I haven't touched any 14 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 1: of this in a year? The move was fine, but 15 00:00:56,720 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: I still do have like a deep layer of resentment 16 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 1: towards the previous landlords for selling the building and course, yeah, 17 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 1: and making me move. I really liked that place. Speaking 18 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 1: of someone who also inspires deep layers of resentment, that's good. Yeah, 19 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 1: thank you. This episode is about RFK Junior. Obviously. RFK 20 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: Junior is the head of the HHS, the Health and 21 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: Human Services Department, which has a stated goal of enhancing 22 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 1: the well being of all Americans. I think we're in 23 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:35,919 Speaker 1: a bit of a cliffhanger in regards to that mission, 24 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 1: because RFK Junior has pushed and promoted a lot of 25 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 1: problematic theories and ideologies as it pertains to our health. 26 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 1: But at the same time, he's captured the adoration of 27 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 1: millions of people in the so called Make America Healthy 28 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 1: Again movement, And so I thought this episode would be 29 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 1: a good opportunity to ask two questions. One, how has 30 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 1: he taken these ideas and resonated with so many people? 31 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 1: And too, what should we as trusters of science do 32 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 1: about his influence and reach? And so, similar to the 33 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:13,640 Speaker 1: episode we did about the rise of political violence and 34 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 1: assassination attempts a couple months ago, I think we're going 35 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 1: to keep our intro here pretty short because we just 36 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 1: want to get straight to the expert. But first I 37 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:25,960 Speaker 1: just wanted to ask you, guys, where do you think 38 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 1: his explosion and popularity comes from? 39 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 5: If we're being honest, the reason RFK came unto my 40 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:39,959 Speaker 5: radar is because of Curb your Enthusiasm, Shara Hines, right, 41 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 5: And that was you know, he wasn't really on my 42 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 5: radar until people are like, oh my god, Cheryl's dating 43 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 5: at Kennedy. 44 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:51,240 Speaker 4: I remember working on a show and they were covering 45 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 4: the anti VAXX movement, and RFK was obviously figured into that. 46 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 4: And then just in his background, I knew he was 47 00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 4: an environmental lawyer, and that gave him some sort of 48 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 4: legitimate See. Obviously, also being a Kennedy, people assume you're 49 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 4: probably not going to be totally crazy, even though yeah, 50 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 4: it's kind of a cursed family. He was always kind 51 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 4: of careful, careful enough in his phrasing for things to 52 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:15,079 Speaker 4: kind of have one foot in and foot out. I 53 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 4: think we still see that today. 54 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 1: I think years ago, I remember, like years like before 55 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 1: I got to New York, like in college. Maybe I 56 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 1: remember hearing about some of the things he was doing 57 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 1: for the environment, for the cause of the environment. I 58 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 1: remember he got arrested, I think, and I remember thinking, wow, like, 59 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 1: this is a Kennedy who's part of this like very 60 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 1: established apparatus of politics. But here's one of the family 61 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 1: members who's kind of going out getting arrested because he 62 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 1: cares about the environment so much. 63 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 2: Tell us why you got arrested yesterday, Bob. We were 64 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 2: protesting the Xcel pipeline or demonstrating. 65 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 4: Yeah, he's arrested for a keystone Excel oil pipeline protest 66 00:03:57,280 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 4: at the White House seeing. 67 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 1: Wow, that's incredible considering the people he works for. Now, 68 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 1: fast forward, fast forward years and years and years, he's 69 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 1: running for president. He's got all these scandals. The one 70 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 1: thing I remember sticking out the most in terms of 71 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 1: like controversy was this measles vaccine moment that happened in Samoa. 72 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 1: Have you guys heard of this. 73 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 6: There's an update from the Samoan government latest. Over three 74 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:22,919 Speaker 6: thousand measles cases reported, one hundred and ninety eight recorded 75 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:26,159 Speaker 6: in the last twenty four hours, fifty three measles related death. 76 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 1: Basically before this outbreak, two kids died after getting the 77 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 1: measles vaccine, not because the vaccine was dangerous, but because 78 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 1: the nurses accidentally mixed the vaccine with a muscle relaxant 79 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 1: instead of water, which is how you're usually supposed to 80 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:44,160 Speaker 1: do it. RFK Junior kind of saw that as an 81 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:46,920 Speaker 1: opportunity to be like, hey, look, the measles vaccine is 82 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 1: killing kids, and he visited the island and drummed up 83 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:56,600 Speaker 1: all of this anti vaccine rhetoric. The vaccination rates dropped 84 00:04:56,800 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: on the island, and then when there was an outbreak, 85 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 1: so many people died, and he denies any involvement of 86 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 1: getting fewer people vaccinated. But if you talk to people there, 87 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 1: if you've talked to experts about it, they see a 88 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 1: pretty clear correlation between his rhetoric in Samoa and the 89 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 1: drop in vaccination rates during an outbreak that killed people. 90 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:24,599 Speaker 1: Here's Senator Elizabeth Warren confronting RFK Junior about this at 91 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:25,920 Speaker 1: his confirmation hearing. 92 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:29,919 Speaker 3: Do you accept even a sentill, just even a sliver 93 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:36,920 Speaker 3: of responsibility for the drop in vaccinations and the subsequent 94 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 3: deaths of more than seventy people, anything you do differently? 95 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:42,839 Speaker 2: No, absolutely not. 96 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:46,719 Speaker 1: The Samoa incident was years ago, But today RFK Junior 97 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 1: is still going on about measles, talking about how vitamin 98 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 1: a is a good enough treatment for the measles outbreak 99 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 1: happening in Texas, and now kids there are overdosing on 100 00:05:56,920 --> 00:05:59,280 Speaker 1: vitamin a, which I didn't even know was a thing, 101 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:03,039 Speaker 1: learning so much about this, about how dumb all of 102 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:14,920 Speaker 1: this is. All right, we have established the kind of 103 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:19,919 Speaker 1: healthcare risks that AREFK junior poses. But sometimes I struggle 104 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:23,720 Speaker 1: with how to process him, because, you know, like ten 105 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 1: percent of the shit he says, you do kind of 106 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:29,040 Speaker 1: go like, oh, okay, man, that kind of makes sense. 107 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 1: He's talking about like ultra processed foods and how bad 108 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:35,720 Speaker 1: they are for you, and it's like, yeah, okay, these 109 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:39,480 Speaker 1: like forever chemicals that are in the water. In the 110 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 1: water doesn't sound good to me. He wants to do 111 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:49,040 Speaker 1: he wants to do universal HSA's, which is great but 112 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 1: weird because he's like gutting all of hhs. You know, 113 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:55,360 Speaker 1: he talks about childhood obesity, being anti big pharma. If 114 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 1: I didn't know exactly who RFK Junior was and I 115 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 1: only listened to what he said in speeches, I could 116 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 1: pretty easily see someone getting caught up in that. 117 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 5: It's funny because we were stunning around the clip and 118 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 5: I saw it for a few days before I actually 119 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 5: listened to what he said in the clip. But like 120 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 5: the headline of the clip was like r K. Junior 121 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 5: is like, we need to take the phones out of 122 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 5: the schools because they're not good for kids. 123 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 7: I was like, oh, yeah, I agree, agree, And then 124 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 7: you played a clip and then he's talking about, you know, 125 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 7: like how it fucks with their brains because of some 126 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 7: way I don't even know. 127 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 2: The cell phones also produce electric magnetic radiation. It has 128 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 2: been shown to damage to neurological damage to kids when 129 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 2: it's around them all day. 130 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, the five gives actually what arget was, which is 131 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 4: like a new spin on it. 132 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 5: And I was like, all right, you know, not the 133 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 5: reason why I would say take the phone out of 134 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 5: the schools. But I've heard people talk about Michelle Obama 135 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 5: try to get people to eat healthier and people are 136 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 5: picking out so it's like some of this stuff, Like 137 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 5: I don't think everything he's saying is out right, like 138 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:15,240 Speaker 5: this is dumb and bad, which I think, from my 139 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 5: point of view makes it harder, right, Like it would 140 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 5: be a lot easier for me to know how to 141 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 5: approach this guy if everything he was saying was just 142 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 5: sort of crazy and like I could just basically ignore it. 143 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:30,240 Speaker 5: But the fact that like, yeah, we should be eating 144 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:32,719 Speaker 5: less ultra processed foods, but like the way that he 145 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 5: wants to tackle it is like not allowing for snap 146 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 5: benefits to cover ultra processed foods, and it's like, Okay, 147 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 5: what are these people going to eat? And a lot 148 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:44,199 Speaker 5: of these ways they don't have fresh fruits and vegetables, 149 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:46,080 Speaker 5: and as we all know, fresh fruits and vegetables are 150 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 5: a lot more expensive than ultra processed foods, So are 151 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 5: you gonna make you know, are you gonna get people 152 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:55,679 Speaker 5: more snap benefits? And they're talking about cutting snap benefits right, 153 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 5: So it's like there's always I feel like, oh yeah, 154 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:01,080 Speaker 5: that kind of makes sense. And then and either the 155 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 5: way it's going to be executed or the reason for 156 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:07,560 Speaker 5: some of this stuff kind of throws you off, So 157 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 5: it makes it makes it harder to sort of navigate. 158 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think he gets into a universally human problem, 159 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 1: which is like, we're so good at being able to 160 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:22,320 Speaker 1: point out something that's bad, but it's when it comes 161 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 1: time to like figuring out how to fix it or 162 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:28,760 Speaker 1: having any kind of like meaningful discourse about solutions, that's 163 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:29,560 Speaker 1: just garbage. 164 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 4: Listen, if he can solve autism by September, like you said. 165 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 6: That's great. 166 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:38,320 Speaker 4: We recognize obviously autism is famously a spectrum, you know, 167 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 4: certainly livable, but it's like, you know, okay, this is 168 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 4: concerning if it is rising this much, or is it 169 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:44,440 Speaker 4: diagnosing whatever. 170 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 5: What drives me crazy about this shit is like there 171 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 5: have been doctors who've been studying this stuff for decades. 172 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:53,320 Speaker 1: And in just so we don't get demonetized. The CDC 173 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 1: data shows that there is no correlation between vaccinations and 174 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:02,320 Speaker 1: an increase in autism. But RFK Junior is here to stay, 175 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 1: and like I said at the top of this episode, 176 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 1: I want to figure out how he's been able to 177 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 1: resonate with so many people and what we should be 178 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 1: doing to deal with this kind of a figure that 179 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:18,560 Speaker 1: high up in office. So after the break, we're going 180 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: to talk to Derek Brez. He's a writer, an author, 181 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:26,560 Speaker 1: he's the co host of the Conspirituality podcast, and he 182 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:31,319 Speaker 1: has been covering RFK Junior extensively for the past few years. 183 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 1: All Right, we're here with Derek Berez, co author of 184 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 1: the Conspiratuality book and co founder of the Conspiratuality Podcast. 185 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 1: We want to talk to you, Derek, not just because 186 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 1: you've reported extensively on RFK Junior, but also because you've 187 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 1: reported on the wellness environment that surrounds basically everything that 188 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 1: he does. But first, on the day of this recording, 189 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 1: actual RFK Junior announced at a cabinet meeting that he's 190 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 1: going to figure out what's behind the quote autism epidemic 191 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:10,600 Speaker 1: by September of this year, by. 192 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:14,000 Speaker 2: September, we will know what has caused autism an epidemic 193 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 2: and will be able to elimit those exposures. 194 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 1: So, Derek, I just want to get your reaction to this. 195 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:23,119 Speaker 1: Can RFK Junior figure this out by September? 196 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 6: He figured it out years ago when he decided that 197 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:28,560 Speaker 6: he was going to start suing a lot of pharmaceutical 198 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:32,319 Speaker 6: companies around vaccines. So he's doing science in the exact 199 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 6: way that science is not done, meaning he's already come 200 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 6: to a conclusion, and now he's been systematically putting the 201 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 6: pieces into place to come to that conclusion in some 202 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 6: sort of official manner, even though the science is likely 203 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 6: not to hold up. 204 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 1: So that's interesting because I consider RFK Junior to be 205 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:56,680 Speaker 1: a peddler of misinformation. But do you think there's enough 206 00:11:56,679 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 1: of an argument to be able to call this disinformation 207 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 1: where where he is being intentionally misleading? 208 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:05,960 Speaker 6: It's always hard for a lot of reasons, especially in 209 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:09,320 Speaker 6: a litigious society like America, and RFK Junior being a 210 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:11,679 Speaker 6: lawyer who knows how to navigate that. But I would 211 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:16,080 Speaker 6: say that if you were intentionally saying things in order 212 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:20,680 Speaker 6: to monetize them or to sway people to your side, 213 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 6: and to your opinion, I would call that disinformation. 214 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: So, Derek, you and two other people, Julian Walker and 215 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 1: Matthew Remsky wrote this incredible book called Conspiratuality. It talks 216 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 1: about influencers in the wellness space who kind of pedal 217 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 1: misinformation and conspiracy theories. And so I thought you would 218 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 1: be a great person to ask about how RFK Junior 219 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 1: and his ideas have resonated with so many people. So 220 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:53,839 Speaker 1: I'll just put the question to you, how the hell 221 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 1: did this happen? 222 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 6: We live in a for profit healthcare system that does 223 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 6: not look out for people, and the idea that pharmaceutical companies, 224 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:12,120 Speaker 6: in alignment with insurance companies and medical systems would not 225 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:15,680 Speaker 6: be looking out for our best interest has affected tens 226 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 6: of millions, hundreds of millions of Americans for a very 227 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 6: long time. People don't go to preventive screenings or get 228 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:25,440 Speaker 6: tests done because they can't afford them. So that that 229 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 6: is the root cause of so many people's frustration with medicine. Now, 230 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 6: on top of that, we have a longstanding wellness quote 231 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:38,320 Speaker 6: unquote community in America that has always looked to alternative medicine. 232 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 6: In our book, we go back two hundred years finding 233 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 6: examples of this and probably goes back even further. And 234 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 6: I was a yoga instructor for decades of my life. 235 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 6: I was very heavily involved in the wellness community, working 236 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:57,319 Speaker 6: with food companies, and I know that community very well, 237 00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 6: having spent time there, and they are mostly well intention people. 238 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 6: But the problem is a lot of them are scientifically illiterate. 239 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 6: And that really is what happens is that RFK Junior 240 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:12,679 Speaker 6: takes a feeling that people have about their being distrust 241 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:17,959 Speaker 6: in the government and with healthcare specifically, but then they 242 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 6: do not really understand how the scientific process works, and 243 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 6: he exploits that gap in people's knowledge, and he appeals 244 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 6: to this idea that nature at some point was healing 245 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:31,600 Speaker 6: and that everyone was just in great shape all of 246 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:34,720 Speaker 6: the time, which is a complete fallacy, but he exploits 247 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 6: those sorts of gaps and. 248 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 1: Knowledge you mentioned earlier. Being a part of the wellness 249 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 1: community as a yoga instructor for my whole life, that 250 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 1: kind of community has always been adjacent to, like a 251 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 1: lefty liberalism. These days, I feel like that kind of 252 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 1: community has been pretty successfully branded as closer to the right. 253 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 1: Could you explain that shift from the left to the right. 254 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 6: So conspirituality is this sort of blending between new age 255 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 6: liberalism and right wing conservatism. But where the connective tissue 256 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 6: in my feeling is that it's an individualism. These sorts 257 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 6: of spirituality that we practice in America is very self 258 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 6: focused and self centered. It's always about healing the individual. 259 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 6: It's very rarely about talking about community, and usually when 260 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 6: community is invoked, it usually only is my community, the 261 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 6: people who already believe the way that I do. So 262 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 6: while on its face it seems like how did these 263 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 6: communities come together, it's really a form of protectionism, of 264 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 6: self protectionism that has united them because a lot of 265 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 6: so called Latte liberals, you know, they are also people 266 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 6: who are involved in nimbi movements. They want to solve homelessness, 267 00:15:57,400 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 6: but they don't want it built on their block. So 268 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:03,200 Speaker 6: that's kind of a feature of liberalism in America. 269 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 1: So I was recently watching one of those twenty versus 270 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 1: one YouTube videos from Jubilee, and the topic for that 271 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 1: episode was anti vaxxers versus a doctor. One of the 272 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 1: sentiments that kept coming up from the anti vaxxers was 273 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 1: this idea that we are actually glowing away from nature, 274 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 1: and the further we get away from nature, the more 275 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 1: diseases we will see. I was wondering if you could 276 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: respond to that sentiment, because I feel like nature could 277 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 1: kind of kill you in a heartbeat. So what is 278 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 1: the science behind that. 279 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 6: It's called the naturalistic fallacy, and it actually is another 280 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:46,920 Speaker 6: parallel with the right wing, because the right wing glorifies 281 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 6: the nineteen fifties post World World War two. America is 282 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 6: this ideal time because it is when we became a 283 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 6: global superpower, but there was a lot going on that 284 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 6: was not good in the nineteen fifties. The same things 285 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:01,200 Speaker 6: happens in the wellness perspective, whereas this idea that we 286 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 6: were once in harmony with nature, which is just total bullshit. 287 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:11,719 Speaker 6: Before antibiotics, vaccines, and then measures like hand washing, you 288 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:15,679 Speaker 6: could very easily die of a cut. Infectious diseases killed people. 289 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 6: You know. One thing that RFK Junior does is he 290 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 6: goes we have a chronic disease epidemic. Now, we do 291 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:24,880 Speaker 6: have problems with chronic diseases. But the reasons that chronic 292 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 6: diseases are more prevalent than infectious diseases right now is 293 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:33,400 Speaker 6: because We've solved a lot of problems with infectious diseases 294 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:38,639 Speaker 6: through vaccines and antibiotics, So this is just a different 295 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 6: example of how we've been grappling and fighting against nature 296 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:46,639 Speaker 6: for a long time. Becoming an apex predator doesn't just 297 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:51,119 Speaker 6: happen without a long struggle, and that struggle continues. But 298 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 6: in some senses, we're victims of our own success. We 299 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 6: can pretty much eat any food anytime of the year 300 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:01,880 Speaker 6: from wherever we want, if we have things that would 301 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:05,800 Speaker 6: have killed us just a few generations ago. I'm a 302 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:09,119 Speaker 6: cancer survivor and I had a relatively and I'm putting 303 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:12,680 Speaker 6: this in quotes easy time with it because the technology 304 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:16,320 Speaker 6: and the science has advanced so much. Whereas one hundred 305 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:18,639 Speaker 6: and fifty years ago, I would not be here right. 306 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:30,800 Speaker 1: Now, Derek, I feel like so much of how RFK 307 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:33,919 Speaker 1: Junior resonates with people has to do with the fact 308 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:39,680 Speaker 1: that he is the person introducing people to a given issue. 309 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:42,280 Speaker 1: I find myself being introduced to a lot of these 310 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:44,919 Speaker 1: topics by r of K Junior, and then I have 311 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 1: to go figure out, you know, what's right and what's wrong. 312 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 1: So I'm hoping we can just throw some r of 313 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:55,120 Speaker 1: K junior claims at you and get your reaction. Where 314 00:18:55,119 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 1: do they come from? Is it bullshit or not? So 315 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 1: how about we start with this idea that vitamin A 316 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:08,560 Speaker 1: is a sufficient enough treatment for measles. Where does that 317 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 1: come from? 318 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 6: It comes from studies that were done on malnourished children 319 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:18,720 Speaker 6: in Africa, and it's very specific to malnourished children, and 320 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:23,760 Speaker 6: they had good efficacy with megadoses of vitamin A too, 321 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 6: megadoses to be specific, given over the course of something 322 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:29,959 Speaker 6: like forty eight hours. They had good results from that. 323 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 6: But what often happens with anti vaxers or wellness people 324 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 6: in general is they'll cling to a study, extrapolate from it, 325 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:43,240 Speaker 6: and then pretend that it's good for everyone. Vitamin A 326 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 6: toxicity is a known problem, and we've seen some children 327 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 6: now have to go to the hospital in West Texas 328 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 6: because of that toxicity. But there is a little bit 329 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:58,680 Speaker 6: of truth to a very specific community that they pretend 330 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 6: will we'll affect everyone in the same way, and that's 331 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:03,679 Speaker 6: just not how biology works. 332 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 1: Okay, what about the claim that seed oils are bad 333 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:10,399 Speaker 1: for you. Seed oils, of course the oils that are 334 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:15,240 Speaker 1: extracted from vegetable crops, so we're talking canola oil, corn oil, 335 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:18,240 Speaker 1: flax seed oil. Are those things bad for you? 336 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:22,200 Speaker 6: That started with or at least was mainstreamed by someone 337 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 6: named Paul Saladino, who was formerly known as the Carnivore 338 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:30,720 Speaker 6: Doctor because he was an early carnivore diet devotee, who 339 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:33,640 Speaker 6: now incorporates fruits and vegetables because he knows that sort 340 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:36,080 Speaker 6: of diet can't last, and he's moved on to another stick. 341 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 6: Seed oils, like canola oil, they're used in ultra processed 342 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:45,360 Speaker 6: foods a lot because they are inexpensive. The problem is 343 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 6: the sugar and the carbs, and then different things, the 344 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:52,720 Speaker 6: excess carbohydrates that are in ultra processed foods and just 345 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 6: the manufacturing process. They've isolated one of the components that 346 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:02,720 Speaker 6: is extremely well studied, is known to have cardiovascular benefits 347 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:06,240 Speaker 6: and is known to have other health benefits, and they've 348 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 6: taken that and pretended to that that is the actual problem. 349 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:13,719 Speaker 1: And the anti seed oil rhetoric has been pretty successful 350 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:17,679 Speaker 1: because you have franchised restaurants like Steak and Shake making 351 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:20,639 Speaker 1: a big deal out of switching from seed oils to 352 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 1: beef tallo for when they make their French fries. 353 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:26,360 Speaker 6: Yeah, it's audience capture. I mean, any sort of company 354 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 6: is going to look for what can give them a 355 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:31,119 Speaker 6: leg up and to get into the news cycle. And 356 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 6: I don't know much about Steak and Shake, so I've 357 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:36,879 Speaker 6: never lived in an area what that has one, So 358 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 6: I don't know their policies. I don't know their politics, 359 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:43,879 Speaker 6: but it doesn't surprise me that if they perhaps have 360 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:46,920 Speaker 6: a conservative bent to their politics, then they want to 361 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:49,359 Speaker 6: appeal to that crowd. It does not surprise me that 362 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:50,600 Speaker 6: they jump on the bandwagon. 363 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:53,520 Speaker 1: I am actually from a state that has Steak and Shake, 364 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:58,359 Speaker 1: and I can confirm that it has a conservative leaning. Okay, okay, okay, 365 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:00,920 Speaker 1: what about fluoride in the wall? Good or bad? 366 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 6: First off, I'll just say that this feeds into another 367 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:07,160 Speaker 6: aspect that RFK is really good at exploiting. I brought 368 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:11,480 Speaker 6: up the naturalistic fallacy. There's also chemophobia, and that's people's 369 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:15,200 Speaker 6: fear of chemicals. So the idea that something is synthetic 370 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 6: and that it's put into something skivs people out. My 371 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:23,159 Speaker 6: understanding is that the benefits have largely been around the 372 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 6: enamel of teeth and people have gotten less cavities. We've 373 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:29,920 Speaker 6: seen instances for example in Canada, where one province took 374 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,440 Speaker 6: the floride out and the childhood cavity rate shot up, 375 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:35,879 Speaker 6: so they put it back in and it went back down. 376 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 6: I happen to live now in the largest city in 377 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:42,119 Speaker 6: America that does not fluoridate its water, which is Portland, Oregon. 378 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,239 Speaker 6: There's a strong hippie culture here that runs with some 379 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 6: of its politics. But from my understanding and from the 380 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 6: experts that I've talked to, it is a net positive 381 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 6: to have fluoride in the water at the levels of 382 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 6: point seven no leaders, it is not going to have 383 00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:06,400 Speaker 6: any harmful effects. 384 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,919 Speaker 1: Earlier, Devin Noah and I were talking about some of 385 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:15,600 Speaker 1: the things that RFK Junior says that we actually agree with, 386 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:20,920 Speaker 1: and I'm curious, has he said anything that you actually support. 387 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:26,399 Speaker 6: Well, Unfortunately, the changes that he's proposed that I would 388 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,560 Speaker 6: love to see happen, I don't think he has the 389 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 6: power to do. And that's things like ending the pharma 390 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 6: lobby in DC and ending direct to consumer advertising of 391 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:41,240 Speaker 6: pharmaceuticals on television. We are one of two countries in 392 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:45,159 Speaker 6: the world that allow that. He campaigned on those things, 393 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 6: and since he's been installed at the AHHS, he has 394 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:50,800 Speaker 6: not brought them up once, And that is what I figured, 395 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 6: because the pharma lobby just has too much power with 396 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:57,120 Speaker 6: both Democrats and Republicans. It is the largest lobby in DC. 397 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,679 Speaker 6: The idea that he would get that through was always 398 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:01,440 Speaker 6: a misnomer. 399 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:06,359 Speaker 1: Right as anti establishment as RFK Junior seems, he doesn't 400 00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 1: seem to be immune from the classic politician behavior of 401 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 1: making promises that he knows he can't keep. But Derek, 402 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:19,440 Speaker 1: we have learned so much in this episode. However, before 403 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 1: I let you go, I wanted to ask you what we, 404 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:26,199 Speaker 1: as individuals have the power to do in the face 405 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 1: of this movement of shitty science. What would you say 406 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:37,240 Speaker 1: to someone who perhaps has dipped their toes in the 407 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 1: worldview of someone like RFK Junior, but hasn't quite gone 408 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 1: off the deep end yet? How would you approach someone 409 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:45,120 Speaker 1: like that? 410 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 6: I would do my best to try to get that 411 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:57,600 Speaker 6: person to adhere to a heuristic that I came up 412 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,199 Speaker 6: very early on with conspirtuality, which is, watch what they 413 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:02,879 Speaker 6: say and then watch what they sell. So if you 414 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 6: look at not just RFK, but if you look at 415 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:08,680 Speaker 6: the people in his inner circle, all of them sell 416 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 6: branded supplements, books, or protocols that go against mainstream medicine 417 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,800 Speaker 6: in some capacity, every single one of them. So if 418 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:23,560 Speaker 6: you can help someone say why are these people fomenting 419 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:27,959 Speaker 6: distrust and conventional medicine at every turn but then selling 420 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:31,440 Speaker 6: you their own branded products, that should be your first 421 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 6: signal that something isn't right here? 422 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 4: All right? 423 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:52,840 Speaker 1: That was Derek Barris, co host of the Conspiratuality podcast. Yeah, 424 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:55,120 Speaker 1: what did we think? I mean? I really I liked 425 00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:59,919 Speaker 1: the point about like approaching people in a reasonable manner 426 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,800 Speaker 1: instead of like what's been the average liberal response to 427 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:05,560 Speaker 1: things we don't agree with, which is just to like 428 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 1: completely shit on someone. 429 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:08,639 Speaker 5: This is going to be a tough four years for 430 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:10,920 Speaker 5: me because I feel like I have very little patience 431 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 5: for this stuff in that like, I don't want to 432 00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:18,760 Speaker 5: spend time explaining to people you don't like basic things 433 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:22,879 Speaker 5: that experts are saying, because it feels like we are 434 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,200 Speaker 5: living in a world right now where it doesn't really 435 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,440 Speaker 5: matter what the facts are or what actually happened. 436 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:31,879 Speaker 1: Right. Yeah. I have family members who, I mean, at 437 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 1: peak COVID were you know, kind of spousing all the 438 00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:37,879 Speaker 1: same kind of stuff, and I went into a mode 439 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:40,359 Speaker 1: of like, you don't know what you're talking about, and 440 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,920 Speaker 1: it's an understandable reaction, like I still feel the need 441 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,959 Speaker 1: to be like that. But then yeah, the result is 442 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,400 Speaker 1: not that they're like understanding your position better. It's more 443 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:55,119 Speaker 1: that like, what the hell I'm being antagonized for the 444 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 1: way that I think, and and it probably makes them 445 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:05,200 Speaker 1: double down, like get even deeper into that avenue of information. 446 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,439 Speaker 1: But like Devin said, there does seem to be just 447 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:13,479 Speaker 1: like two different worlds of information happening. We saw that 448 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 1: this week with the Supreme Court decision that was nine 449 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:24,160 Speaker 1: to zero against Trump about bringing the mistakenly deported guy back, 450 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:27,520 Speaker 1: and they immediately were like, actually it was nine to 451 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:31,160 Speaker 1: zero in our favor, and then and that was it. 452 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:34,879 Speaker 1: Conversation's over. So it's like, all right, yeah, this is 453 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,920 Speaker 1: going to be a fair like an incredibly frustrating era 454 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 1: to live in. And I feel like, you know, I 455 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:46,080 Speaker 1: do feel like the classic like MSNBC like mom now 456 00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:48,719 Speaker 1: where it's like, you know, in the first Trump administration, 457 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 1: I'm like whatever, like this is very all, very stupid, 458 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 1: but it's gonna be okay. And now I'm like, holy shit, 459 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,760 Speaker 1: I can't I can't believe what I'm seeing. And so 460 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 1: I want to be able to practice more patience and tolerance, 461 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,159 Speaker 1: but then this is like the worst era to be 462 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:08,119 Speaker 1: trying to practice that. In the part of the appeal 463 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:10,800 Speaker 1: of RFK is of course that in this kind of 464 00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:12,959 Speaker 1: what the whole episode has been about is like, there 465 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:14,560 Speaker 1: will be these things where it's like you want to 466 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,720 Speaker 1: hear them out on certain things, or attacking big pharma 467 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:21,199 Speaker 1: and you know, advertisement on TV and these sorts of 468 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:24,959 Speaker 1: things which are obviously way harder goals because there is 469 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:26,680 Speaker 1: money and other factors. 470 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,480 Speaker 4: Right. I guess like my approach if someone I knew 471 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 4: was kind of dipping their toe into some of this stuff, 472 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 4: my approach would be to try to take it on 473 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:36,200 Speaker 4: a case by case thing and not just like, oh well, 474 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:40,360 Speaker 4: everything RFK or you know, insert anyone in this realm 475 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 4: is totally off base and wrong. The seed oil thing, 476 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:44,920 Speaker 4: if you don't want to eat that, I don't really care. 477 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,000 Speaker 4: I don't think kids aren't gonna die, but that obviously 478 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 4: there's stuff where it's like, Okay, we're trying to get 479 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 4: rid of the polio vaccine. That's pretty bad. 480 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to no such thing by Manny, Noah 481 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:09,640 Speaker 1: and Devin. This was our second news oriented episode. Let 482 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:11,520 Speaker 1: us know if you liked it and if we should 483 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,239 Speaker 1: do even more of them, or let us know if 484 00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:17,959 Speaker 1: you're like, uh, this sucks. Stop doing news. You guys 485 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,880 Speaker 1: are idiots. Our guest today was Derek Barris, author of 486 00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 1: the Conspiratuality book and host of the Conspiratuality podcast. Definitely 487 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 1: visit the substack for today's episode at No Such Thing 488 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 1: dot Show. It's going to have a list of resources 489 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 1: for people who want to learn more about all the 490 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 1: issues we talked about today. The theme song for No 491 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 1: Such Thing is produced by me Manny certain self is 492 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:47,760 Speaker 1: on the beat for the song you're listening to right now. Finally, 493 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,000 Speaker 1: if you liked what you heard today, please leave us 494 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 1: five stars on wherever you're listening to this podcast. It 495 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,960 Speaker 1: helps us so much and I'll talk to you guys 496 00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 1: next week.