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Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to work in progress. At

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Speaker 1: a time when Americans are grappling with urgent questions about democracy, leadership,

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Speaker 1: and the future of the nation, perspective matters because history

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Speaker 1: is not just shaped by elections or policies or headlines,

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Speaker 1: but by people, by their character, their convictions, and the

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Speaker 1: choices they make when the stakes are the highest. Very

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Speaker 1: few people have witnessed those choices more closely than doctor

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Speaker 1: Jill Biden. As an educator, advocate, first lady, and one

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Speaker 1: of the country's most respected public servants, Doctor b has

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Speaker 1: spent decades championing the values of service, empathy, and civic

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Speaker 1: engagement while helping us navigate some of the most defining

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Speaker 1: chapters of modern American life. In her new book, Biden

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Speaker 1: takes readers beyond the public record and into the human

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Speaker 1: stories behind history. View from the East Wing is a

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Speaker 1: deeply personal look at the relationships, challenges, and moments that

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Speaker 1: shaped her years in the White House, and a chance

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Speaker 1: to reflect on leadership, resilience, and hope at a time

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Speaker 1: when all three feel more essential than ever. I am

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Speaker 1: so honored to say I am here in Boston tonight.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Joel Biden come join.

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Speaker 2: Us as I bring out Sophia, Who's gonna join me

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Speaker 2: in this conversation.

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Speaker 1: Come on, guys, doctor B, Doctor B in Boston. I

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Speaker 1: love this.

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Speaker 2: Ah, Hi, hey, buddy, we can They're the only ones

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Speaker 2: who probably can understand my Philly accent because.

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Speaker 3: They have love have their own.

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Speaker 1: I I'm so thrilled to be here with all of

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Speaker 1: you tonight. I'm still just so tickled that you asked

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Speaker 1: me to come. And also during Pride, Happy Pride, everyone.

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Speaker 4: We're so happy.

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Speaker 1: You're I have to say, and I'll tell you why

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Speaker 1: we're here. I've been lucky enough to know the bidens

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Speaker 1: for quite some time. I signed on. I think it

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Speaker 1: was the end of seven for the first election with

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Speaker 1: you all and President Obama. It was a night a

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Speaker 1: bunch of US healthcare advocates had been asked to come

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Speaker 1: to something at the White House, and everybody was like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, we can't believe we're here. And Joe

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Speaker 1: was talking to all of us really just like what

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Speaker 1: are you passionate about? What are you concerned about? And

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Speaker 1: brocc Lean's in and goes.

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Speaker 5: Yo, we gotta go, and he just like you know,

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Speaker 5: we were all in our twenties and he he was

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Speaker 5: just giving us all his time and attention, and there

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Speaker 5: were no cameras in that room.

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Speaker 1: And every time I've been around him, around you, you're

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Speaker 1: both just so genuinely.

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Speaker 3: Caring about somethings. So thank you.

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Speaker 1: I'm thrilled to be with you to.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 1: I got questions. I did homework. Nobody's surprised. I'm curious

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Speaker 1: about something because obviously part of writing a memoirs looking back,

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Speaker 1: and you have such an incredible life to look back at,

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Speaker 1: all of your service, all of your teaching, but before that,

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Speaker 1: before you were doctor Biden or missus Biden in class

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Speaker 1: to someone, I'm curious about you when you were somebody's student.

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Speaker 1: When you think about your life, if you could walk

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Speaker 1: out in front of this building and run into yourself at.

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Speaker 2: Ten years old, do you think do you think that

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Speaker 2: little girl would see herself?

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Speaker 1: You would you see yourself in her? Well?

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Speaker 2: I never would have predicted how fun my life took.

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Speaker 2: I mean, quite honestly, you know, I grew up really

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Speaker 2: in an idyllic I mean idyllic childhood I just had.

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Speaker 3: My parents were really young. There were lots of fun.

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Speaker 2: I mean, we would have tomato fights during the summer

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Speaker 2: out on the lawn. You know, having five four sisters

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Speaker 2: was just so great.

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Speaker 3: And I loved school, as you know, when I was

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Speaker 3: in those early years.

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Speaker 2: By high school, I was cutting class like the rest

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Speaker 2: of everybody else.

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Speaker 1: She's a good time you guys.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so sneaking out, you know, to go eat a

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Speaker 2: HOGI anyway, So, but my ten year old self, I

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Speaker 2: don't think I've changed all that much.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I still.

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Speaker 2: I still loved to read and I loved to write,

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Speaker 2: and so I don't think I changed that much.

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Speaker 1: No, that's pretty cool, especially given the life. Yeah, I'm

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Speaker 1: curious why this felt like the time, because view from

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Speaker 1: the East wing is it's personal, it's historic. Did you

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Speaker 1: just kind of feel ready to put it all out

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Speaker 1: there given the state of the world in twenty twenty.

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Speaker 2: Six, You know, I was definitely ready to put it

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Speaker 2: out And when Joe got out of office, I just

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Speaker 2: felt that so many people went out and wrote books

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Speaker 2: and I and I, you know, I read parts of

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Speaker 2: many of them, and I thought, and I saw things

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Speaker 2: that weren't true or had been you know, misconstrued, and

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Speaker 2: I thought, I want to write my own reflections of

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Speaker 2: how I saw things it and that encompassed, like the

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Speaker 2: whole four years. It encompassed travel, state, dinners, camp, David teaching,

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Speaker 2: all the things I did, and then I included the

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Speaker 2: chapters that were the really, you know, hard ones to

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Speaker 2: write about Joe getting out. But I want you to know,

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Speaker 2: because many of you have not read the book, it's

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Speaker 2: not a political book. It's a book about, like you're saying,

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Speaker 2: an ordinary woman who was given the opportunity to live

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Speaker 2: an extraordinary life.

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Speaker 3: And it's my reflections on that.

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Speaker 1: I will say as a reader. What was so touching

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Speaker 1: to me about it is you. You didn't have to say, hey,

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Speaker 1: I'm reminding you all that there's people in here in

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Speaker 1: this political world, but you offered us such a personal

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Speaker 1: view into a space that I think a lot of

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Speaker 1: us on the outside forget. Most days there's people trying

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Speaker 1: to do the best they can and sometimes the only

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Speaker 1: decisions you're given are a bad one and a worse one,

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Speaker 1: and you still have to nurture the country through it.

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Speaker 1: And I think we all need to remember that we're

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Speaker 1: all just people trying to figure out how to do

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Speaker 1: this and it, I don't know, you did something really

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Speaker 1: really beautiful in it, and not everything you're reflecting on

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Speaker 1: is beautiful. I mean the first Lady's office in the

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Speaker 1: East Wing is.

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Speaker 2: I remember that, the East Wing, and that that was horrifying.

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Speaker 1: And as a person who's has the ultimate privilege of

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Speaker 1: having been invited to the house on more than one occasion,

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Speaker 1: like you guys still to walk up and you go

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Speaker 1: through security and you give them all your stuff, and

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Speaker 1: then you go through the next one and you give

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Speaker 1: them all your stuff, and you're kind of like, am

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Speaker 1: I gonna get Is this where I get in trouble?

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Speaker 1: Is this where you're gonna.

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Speaker 2: Tell me to go?

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Speaker 1: Can I still not?

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Speaker 3: I still have a gun? Right?

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Speaker 6: Well, I would never, But like you get up there

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Speaker 6: and then you walk this path and there's these gates

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Speaker 6: and little steps, and you walk up to the East

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Speaker 6: Wing and it's like, I can't.

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Speaker 1: Believe I'm here. And to think it's gone, and to

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Speaker 1: think about the work you and so many other first

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Speaker 1: ladies did in that office, it's crushing. And you reflected

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Speaker 1: on it in a way that hit me. You said,

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Speaker 1: to see it, the innards of the East Wing were

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Speaker 1: spread for everyone to see, like a rare and precious

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Speaker 1: animal that had been hunted and killed. You make it

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Speaker 1: make sense for all of us who'd never had an

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Speaker 1: office there. How do you think about it now as

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Speaker 1: we're a year into the Mayhem.

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Speaker 3: Well.

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Speaker 2: Half you're and a half.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, not that anyone's scouting.

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Speaker 2: You know, I love the East wing. And like you're saying, Sophia,

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Speaker 2: I mean you.

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Speaker 3: Would families would come in or you.

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Speaker 2: Know, to the east, to the east that.

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Speaker 3: Was the entrance to the White House.

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Speaker 2: And I would hear families or people come in and

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Speaker 2: they'd be so excited and just to be there and

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Speaker 2: take pictures with their family.

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Speaker 3: And because it does have this mystique to it.

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Speaker 2: And then as you walk down the hallway, one of

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Speaker 2: the things that I did was put artwork of military

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Speaker 2: children so that people would know when they came to

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Speaker 2: the White House how much we honored military families.

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Speaker 3: Thank you and thank you military families.

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Speaker 2: And then as you continued down, they used to have

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Speaker 2: well when we came in, they had these pictures, and

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Speaker 2: you know, they would just kids would just sort of

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Speaker 2: walk past the pictures.

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Speaker 3: And I thought, you know, as a teacher, we learned

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Speaker 3: with all of our senses, and.

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Speaker 2: So I changed it so that the pictures would revolve

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Speaker 2: and you'd see like several things that happened, or like

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Speaker 2: the Carter administration or the you know, Barack Obama's administration,

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Speaker 2: all the way down the line, and then you'd walk

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Speaker 2: a little bit further on and there would be the

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Speaker 2: older presidents and the kids would start to look at

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Speaker 2: their phones like, you know, like so disinterested.

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Speaker 3: Like what's this.

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Speaker 2: So I changed it to have all the first ladies pictures,

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Speaker 2: the ones that you would.

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Speaker 3: Know, like Lara Bush and Barbara Bush and Hillary Clinton.

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Speaker 2: So so then it meant something to kids. And then

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Speaker 2: they went on the tour, and I made it interactive.

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Speaker 3: I worked with the History Channel, and.

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Speaker 2: I made it so that you could go further into

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Speaker 2: the rooms, you could hear FDR on the radio, you

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Speaker 2: could feel the marble that was made up the marble fireplace.

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Speaker 2: So that kids became really involved with the tour and.

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Speaker 3: That they had a really good White House.

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Speaker 2: Experience rather than sort of walk by and look at

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Speaker 2: all these paintings where they didn't know what they were

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Speaker 2: looking at. I had to make it meaningful for them.

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Speaker 3: So when I.

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Speaker 2: Saw it come down and someone you know who will

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Speaker 2: remain nameless at the White House was sending me pictures

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Speaker 2: like Jill, look what he's going on. And that wrecking ball,

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Speaker 2: you know, that kept hitting the concrete.

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Speaker 3: And the and the building, and.

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Speaker 2: You know it just honest to god, it reminded me

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Speaker 2: of like those elite hunters, you know that go out

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Speaker 2: and shoot these rare and precious animals and then gut them,

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Speaker 2: and or like if you've been like I know you're

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Speaker 2: not from Philly like I am, but you know the

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Speaker 2: butcher shops that hang those animals in the windows with

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Speaker 2: their you know, just hanging everything. It was just so

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Speaker 2: raw and cruel. And you think of all the historical

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Speaker 2: memory of the of the East Wing and all the

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Speaker 2: first ladies who had their office is there not even

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Speaker 2: to mention the gardens and the flowers and the trees

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Speaker 2: and all the beauty that was there for years and

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Speaker 2: years and years gone, yeah gone.

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Speaker 1: When you when I read that, I thought about he

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Speaker 1: who shan't be named and his sons who shan't be named.

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Speaker 1: Who are those kinds of trophy hunters? Yeah, who love

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Speaker 1: to put an awful photo like that on Instagram? What

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Speaker 1: an insane thing?

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Speaker 3: Where do we We're in the upside down?

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Speaker 1: But it really it made me think about that vision

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Speaker 1: where take more, no matter what, for your gain, versus

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Speaker 1: honoring history saying the White House is actually enough and incredible. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, it seems like we're having a conversation about

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Speaker 1: what kind of a future we want to pursue. Do

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Speaker 1: we want to ground ourselves in philosophy and reverence and

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Speaker 1: morality and respect or is everything for sale?

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Speaker 3: And I think particularly apparently.

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Speaker 1: Well unfortunately hopefully not forever, we have work to do

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Speaker 1: for November. You you have always been someone who acts

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Speaker 1: out of such a place of realness. I was telling

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Speaker 1: her aback sat I was like, my grandpa would would

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Speaker 1: die tonight and be like, she's abroad. I like her,

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Speaker 1: you know, like, you're a real person and a dedicated

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Speaker 1: public servant, and you demand respect, you expect respect. As

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Speaker 1: a teacher, you've taught respect. I'm curious how you think

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Speaker 1: we get back to a nation that is respectful of

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Speaker 1: each other.

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Speaker 2: I was in the airport, you know, just minding my

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Speaker 2: own business, just walking down the hall, and one woman,

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Speaker 2: I mean in the middle of everything.

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Speaker 3: I mean, she.

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Speaker 2: Turned and whipped around and she get yells make America

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Speaker 2: great again, Go Trump.

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Speaker 4: And I was like, and I was just walking through

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Speaker 4: the airport, and I thought, what's wrong with her? Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 4: I can't imagine in my wildest dreams like saying that

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Speaker 4: to somebody on the other side, like yelling some random,

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Speaker 4: like mean comment. We have to get back to kindness

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Speaker 4: and to listening to one another.

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Speaker 3: And it may not be easy, but we have to

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Speaker 3: do it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think it starts with us.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's starts with us. And I think if

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Speaker 3: we just keep we don't give up, we don't give

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Speaker 3: into it.

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Speaker 2: If we just keep pushing forward and just saying listen

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Speaker 2: to us.

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Speaker 3: Hear us, we'll hear you too.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's the way it used to be when

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Speaker 2: Joe got into the Senate in nineteen seventy two, that

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Speaker 2: you know, people from both sides of the aisle. And

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Speaker 2: I'm old enough that I remember that, like the Republicans

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Speaker 2: and the Democrats, they would disagree all the time on

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Speaker 2: the floor of the Senate, but then we'd go out

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Speaker 2: to dinner together and we'd go you know, we'd travel

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Speaker 2: together or whatever. But we respected one another's opinions. And

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Speaker 2: so we've got to get back to it.

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Speaker 3: What do you think is the pathway?

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Speaker 1: I agree, you know, I I think there's We've lost

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Speaker 1: something that I think is really essential, which is the

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Speaker 1: willingness to learn in public. You know, everyone's so scared

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Speaker 1: to get canceled or to say the wrong thing, or

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Speaker 1: to be cringe. I'm like, don't kill what makes you cringe?

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Speaker 1: Kill the cringe. Like, be emotional, be sweet, say something cheesy,

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Speaker 1: tell people you love them.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 1: I think that's part of it, and something that I

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Speaker 1: have learned actually from your husband, that I have learned

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Speaker 1: from watching President Obama and Michelle, even from President Clinton.

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Speaker 1: You know, they served through periods where not all the

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Speaker 1: decisions were great, Like you're doing the best you can

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Speaker 1: with the information you have. The fact that President Biden,

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Speaker 1: the fact that President Clinton were like, oh yeah, we

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Speaker 1: were absolutely wrong on the crime bill, so we got

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Speaker 1: to do something better. Like that's exactly what I want

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Speaker 1: my president to say.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I look at the.

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Speaker 1: Data, I got pitched a solution. It was the wrong one.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna fix it. Like this idea that if you

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Speaker 1: make a mistake and you admit it, you're a loser,

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Speaker 1: so you're gonna double down on hurting people.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, what are we doing? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: So I think that's part of it too, Like we

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Speaker 1: give our kids, whether they're our children or kids we teach,

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Speaker 1: We give them space to learn and rip and repair,

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Speaker 1: and we seem to have lost that in the public discourse,

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Speaker 1: and I think we need it back.

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Speaker 3: We definitely need it back. We definitely need it back.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, maybe not for the lady who yelled

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Speaker 1: at you in the airport. I'm glad you were nice

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Speaker 1: to her.

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Speaker 2: If I had been with you, I want to, But

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Speaker 2: I thought it was.

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Speaker 1: So out of I mean, it's out of reason.

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Speaker 3: Like why would like who gives you permission?

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Speaker 2: Like we've somehow had feel this permission to yell at

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Speaker 2: people or scream at people or say nasty comments.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I mean the Internet.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And so maybe that was the beginning of it,

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Speaker 2: or maybe it started more recently.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I don't know either. You know, it's interesting, though, because

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Speaker 1: that experience you had in the airport is the byproduct

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Speaker 1: of being a person whose life becomes a fishbowl. And

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Speaker 1: you and many people who've lived in the White House

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Speaker 1: talk about how the White House is kind of a

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Speaker 1: fish bowl. How do you maintain a sense of a

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Speaker 1: private life or normalcy when you live in that house?

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Speaker 1: I mean, you can't open a window, you can't go

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Speaker 1: for a walk, like, what's your life? What's your life

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Speaker 1: in there?

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Speaker 3: You can go for a walk and you are in

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Speaker 3: a fish bowl in that you know. Uh, well, our

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Speaker 3: my code name is Capri and.

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Speaker 2: Because I'm Italian, I'm a good Italian girl. And then

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Speaker 2: and then Joe's was Celtic, you know, Irish. So anyway,

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Speaker 2: we got the letter c every presidential uh, every president

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Speaker 2: gets a letter from the alphabet and they have to

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Speaker 2: choose their own names. And like our kids were Coaster

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Speaker 2: and Cookie and you know, so they had that.

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Speaker 3: They chose themselves. Oh what would you have chosen with

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Speaker 3: a sea?

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Speaker 1: Oh? I don't know. I have to think about it.

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Speaker 5: All right, I'll give you some so probably canol Canoli,

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Speaker 5: you know I I will good Italian.

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Speaker 1: Girl too, I come on, that's cute Carpaccio.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: So so anyway, anywhere you go, I mean your movements

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Speaker 2: are like you feel like you're chipped, you know how

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Speaker 2: we do with our animals. It was like Capri moving

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Speaker 2: to elevator, Capri going down elevator, Capri walking to the hall.

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Speaker 2: Everywhere you went, you know, you were I mean, they

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Speaker 2: knew every single movement. So I, I don't know, it

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Speaker 2: was such a fish bowl.

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Speaker 3: But I felt like because I taught school that two

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Speaker 3: days a week, I would go.

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Speaker 2: To Northern Virginia Community College at seven twenty in the

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Speaker 2: morning and I would be, you know, Capri.

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Speaker 3: Going down to the cars and Willow. It was so funny.

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Speaker 3: You know, we have a cat, Willow, and so Willow.

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Speaker 2: I'd open the door and Willow would go up the

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Speaker 2: stairs and she'd go up to housekeeping and they would

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Speaker 2: they called her Wilita, and so it was so cute.

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Speaker 2: They loved her, and so they would be waiting opening

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Speaker 2: the door for her to come upstairs.

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Speaker 3: But teaching.

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Speaker 2: Really grounded me because I walked into that classroom and

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Speaker 2: I felt that, I don't know, I felt I could breathe.

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Speaker 2: And you know, the first day of school, well, I

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Speaker 2: was never on the roster because they don't put.

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Speaker 3: Your name on for security reasons.

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Speaker 2: So the first day of classes, the students were always like,

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Speaker 2: what's going on? Why do we have to put book

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Speaker 2: bags through this mag thing? And I said to them,

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Speaker 2: they're not looking for your drugs.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: And then the care and so the first day they

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Speaker 2: were like, oh my god, look who my teacher is.

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Speaker 2: By the second day, they were saying the F word,

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Speaker 2: so like they totally accepted.

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Speaker 3: Me as their English teacher. And I loved that. It

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Speaker 3: was it was just very cool for you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I get what you mean, though, it's a it's

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Speaker 1: a tether to your real life, not that not the

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Speaker 1: projection of what anyone thinks of the White House. I

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Speaker 1: also humble brag for her. You made history doing that.

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Speaker 1: You were the first first lady who held a teaching position. Yes, like,

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Speaker 1: but so cool. Thank you. Why did keeping the job

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Speaker 1: feel like a non for you? Did you know it

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Speaker 1: would be a tether or was it just something that

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Speaker 1: you said, like I'm not putting this on pause.

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Speaker 3: No, I felt really strongly about it.

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Speaker 2: And you know, I supported Joe in his career and

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Speaker 2: I and he always supported me in my career. Although

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Speaker 2: there were doubts like Jill, really do you you know

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Speaker 2: his staff would say, do you really think you can

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Speaker 2: teach a second lady and I mean his first lady,

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Speaker 2: And I said, well, I'm.

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Speaker 3: Going to do it, so you better figure it out.

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Speaker 3: And so but I had worked too hard.

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Speaker 2: I loved teaching, I loved my career and I raised

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Speaker 2: three children. I went to graduate school like forever for

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Speaker 2: I got two masters and a doctorate from the University

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Speaker 2: of Delaware at the age of fifty five.

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Speaker 3: So I wasn't about to give it up. And I

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Speaker 3: want to say another thing.

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Speaker 2: At my age when we went into the White House,

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Speaker 2: you know, I was not about to say to Joe Biden, Hey,

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Speaker 2: would you give me money so I can buy pantyhose?

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Speaker 3: I mean, no way. So I had to have my independence.

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Speaker 2: And I'll tell you one thing I've really like pounded

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Speaker 2: into my granddaughters and my own daughter is like, you

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Speaker 2: must be financially independent.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, because all this crowd wife marketing is a

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Speaker 1: ruse and we know it. I'm really curious about this

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Speaker 1: because you've spoken about your plans to teach ged classes

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Speaker 1: in women's prisons, which, again, when we talk about what

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Speaker 1: kind of future we want to build, I think like, oh, look,

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Speaker 1: you want to solve problems on Earth instead of moving

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Speaker 1: to Mars and building a fancy prison for yourself. Crazy

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Speaker 1: crazy that we should like make the only planet of

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Speaker 1: the trees better. But what does that calling feel like

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Speaker 1: for you? Was there something as your time as second

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Speaker 1: lady or your time as first lady that you saw

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Speaker 1: in the carceral system.

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Speaker 2: You know I did because my daughter has works with

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Speaker 2: women who have come out of prisons, and she started

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Speaker 2: a women's wellness center and she helps them get jobs

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Speaker 2: or education, mental health. And so she took me to

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Speaker 2: the women's prison, and.

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Speaker 3: You know, I spoke to them.

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Speaker 2: We had a great conversation, and then I got a

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Speaker 2: pen pal, and so we would write to each other

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Speaker 2: all the time. And I know, it was so funny,

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Speaker 2: like when Anthony, you know, my chief is daft, said

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Speaker 2: what you have a prison pen pal? I mean it's like, yes, Anthony,

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Speaker 2: I do so anyway, So I thought when I left Washington,

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Speaker 2: I you know, I still have it in my blood.

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Speaker 2: And if there are any teachers in this room, I'm

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Speaker 2: sure there are many.

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Speaker 3: You know what I mean. Right, It's the best job

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Speaker 3: in the world.

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Speaker 2: Every day is so interesting and you get so attached

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Speaker 2: to your students.

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Speaker 3: So when we left, I thought, what could I do?

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Speaker 2: I don't want to like have a full schedule at

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Speaker 2: a university. And I thought, how great would it be

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Speaker 2: to go into the women's prison and get women who

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Speaker 2: are just about to come out.

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Speaker 3: I think that they call it level four and.

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Speaker 2: I talked to my community college where I used to teach,

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Speaker 2: and I said, can we come up with this program

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Speaker 2: where I would go into the prisons and teach help

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Speaker 2: them with their ged skills or workforce development. And then

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Speaker 2: this is the good part. One day they would come

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Speaker 2: to the college and they would take they would sit

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Speaker 2: in a classroom so that they would build their self esteem,

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Speaker 2: you know, feel like the college students that they were

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Speaker 2: earn a degree, you go on to get a job.

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Speaker 2: I mean that would be like if we could raise

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Speaker 2: them up and give that to them, that that would

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Speaker 2: be like a dream come.

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Speaker 3: True, a dream come true.

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Speaker 1: Say it's more for part two of our conversation with

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Speaker 1: doctor Tobiden