1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:03,199 Speaker 1: You are listening to the Tutor Dixon Podcast, and today 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:06,480 Speaker 1: we are talking about ozempic. You guys have all heard 3 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:09,959 Speaker 1: all kinds of stories about ozempic. Some of you probably 4 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:12,240 Speaker 1: have used it, some of you may not know the 5 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: whole history of what ozempic is or how it even works. 6 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:18,760 Speaker 1: And that's why we decided to bring the author of 7 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: the new book Off the Scales, the Inside Story of 8 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: Ozempic and the Race to Cure Obesity, Amy Donalin. Thank 9 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:27,200 Speaker 1: you so much, Amy for being on today. 10 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 2: It's really great to be here. Thank you so much. 11 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 2: Shooter absolutely so. 12 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:34,320 Speaker 1: First of all, as I was reading through this, I 13 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:38,240 Speaker 1: didn't even I guess we don't understand how drugs come 14 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 1: to be. And there was a lot of work, years 15 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 1: and years of work on this. It was obviously for 16 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:47,480 Speaker 1: we I think many of us know was for diabetes, 17 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 1: but then they started to see all of these other things. 18 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 1: It has kind of set off a whole line of 19 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: questions from all different industries. But tell us a little 20 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 1: bit about how you got into figuring out how ozempic 21 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 1: came to be. 22 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 3: Well, it's funny, actually, So I cover pharmaceuticals for Reuter's, 23 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 3: which is the news agency so I cover Novanordisk, which 24 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 3: is the company that makes ozentpic and now Weggavy, which 25 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 3: is the obesity drug. 26 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 2: And it was actually during. 27 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 3: The pandemic that I was asked to write a piece 28 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 3: about what was being called at the time virus vices. 29 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 3: So this was basically the idea that people were sitting 30 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 3: at home, drinking, smoking, doing all sorts of things that 31 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 3: were really really bad for their health. And I was 32 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:34,039 Speaker 3: looking at all the stocks of these companies really kind 33 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 3: of just going up and up and up, and they 34 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 3: were really benefiting from this. And then my editor at 35 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 3: the time said, but what's the upshot of all this? 36 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 3: What happens if everyone lives really on healthy lives And 37 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 3: then we thought diabetes. 38 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:46,480 Speaker 2: That's what happens. 39 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 3: You get Most people will get diabetes if they put 40 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 3: on a lot of weight and as I said, live a. 41 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 2: Very unhealthy life. 42 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 3: So we looked at Novaanornis stock and it had completely 43 00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 3: outperformed all the others, and that was sort of the ozepic. 44 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 3: And that was the first time I had ever This 45 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 3: was twenty twenty, the first time I had ever really 46 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 3: heard or seen anything about ozembic, And bear in mind 47 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 3: I was covering pharmaceuticals, and this drug had already been 48 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 3: on the market for about two years, so it was really. 49 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 2: Bubbling under the surface for quite some time. 50 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:19,240 Speaker 1: That's what I wanted to say, because I in your book, 51 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:21,800 Speaker 1: I read that there was sort of a buzz in 52 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:25,640 Speaker 1: Hollywood around twenty eighteen where one of the one of 53 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:28,360 Speaker 1: the plastic surgeons in Hollywood started getting these calls like 54 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 1: I hear, there's this miracle drug, and it started that 55 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: these folks in Hollywood were actually getting it, which I 56 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:38,799 Speaker 1: think if we look back, we started to see people 57 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 1: shed weight like you would not believe. 58 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 4: How is this happening? 59 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 1: And all of a sudden it wasn't so much like 60 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:46,239 Speaker 1: we're body positivity. 61 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:47,920 Speaker 4: It was like everybody needs to be thin again. 62 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:53,079 Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely, and that is definitely something that I explored 63 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:55,799 Speaker 3: the book because twenty eighteen. Bear in mind, this is 64 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 3: when the commercial came out, right, theoozempic, which kind of 65 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 3: went round and round everyone's heads. And they do mention 66 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:05,080 Speaker 3: in that commercial, which came out like summer twenty eighteen, 67 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 3: that there was weight loss and that wouldn't be necessarily 68 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 3: unusual for a pharmaceutical drug that there would be some 69 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 3: weight loss so they didn't make a big deal out 70 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 3: of it. They didn't say, you know, you lose a 71 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:15,640 Speaker 3: ton of weight if you're on these drugs, but it 72 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 3: was very much there. And yes, it was this Jason Diamond, 73 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 3: who is a plastic surgeon. He's been linked to Kim 74 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:26,359 Speaker 3: Kardashian and Katie Perry, and he basically said that, yes, 75 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 3: it was you know, producers, movie stars, TV stars being like, 76 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 3: what is the situation with this diabetes drug because we 77 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 3: hear it helps you lose weight, and you're right. It 78 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 3: kind of crashed right into I think, really the peak 79 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 3: of body positivity. This is when people were really companies 80 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 3: like Abercrombie and Fitch were really being shamed for not 81 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 3: having plus sized models on their websites, not having enough 82 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 3: varieties of clothing in their stores. 83 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 2: So there was a big, big push at this time. 84 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 3: And then, as you're right, once people realized there was 85 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 3: this shot that they take that could allow them to 86 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 3: be thin, it seems like for a lot of people 87 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 3: body positivity just kind of went out the window. 88 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 1: But I think body positivity had been there because of 89 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 1: something else that you write about, and that is the 90 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: change in how our food is made and the portions 91 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 1: that we were getting that we didn't realize were happening. 92 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 1: You said that the current size of a side of 93 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:26,720 Speaker 1: fries at McDonald's is the size of the nineteen ninety 94 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:30,359 Speaker 1: eight supersize me size that he asked for in that movie. 95 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 4: And that was stunning to me. I'm like, oh my gosh, 96 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 4: how much are we eating? 97 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 3: Yes, I found even like even more so, like looking 98 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 3: at the McDonald's when McDonald's first came out, that they 99 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 3: had one size of fries that that was you know, and. 100 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:47,280 Speaker 1: That, yes, that the small size. I remember when I 101 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 1: was a kid, that was the only size. 102 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 2: That was it. 103 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, So you didn't have these options for all sorts 104 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 3: of different portions. And I have to say as well 105 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:56,480 Speaker 3: that one of the scientists in the book talks about 106 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 3: and when you think about it, it is baffling to 107 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 3: think about free refills of sous like this is why 108 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:05,800 Speaker 3: would you be offering more and you're not getting any 109 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 3: extra money for it. You're you're actually just giving away 110 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 3: a very unhealthy drink for free, like it is. Yeah, 111 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:14,159 Speaker 3: I think that that And I had to have to 112 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 3: sort of wrestle a little bit with this as like 113 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 3: a woman, because you can see that there was definitely 114 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 3: a period in the fifties and sixties where people were 115 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 3: eating at home a lot and people didn't eat out 116 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:24,919 Speaker 3: a lot. 117 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 2: And that was definitely when women were at home more. 118 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 3: They were spending about three hours a day in the 119 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:33,480 Speaker 3: kitchen literally, like baking bread, all of these types of things. 120 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 2: And then women really went back into. 121 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:38,039 Speaker 3: The workforce, but they were obviously in there during World 122 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 3: War Two, and they went back into the workforce, and 123 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 3: then you saw a kind of rise in convenience food 124 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 3: because both typically both parents were then working, there were 125 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 3: single parent families. And then that essentially meant that companies 126 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 3: like Nesle and the big food manufacturers were like, oh, okay, 127 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 3: people need they need ease. They need to be able 128 00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:59,479 Speaker 3: to come home, have their dinner on the table in 129 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:02,280 Speaker 3: fifteen minutes. So lots of jarred food, lost, canned food, 130 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 3: lots of preservatives in order to keep those things fresh 131 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:08,920 Speaker 3: let's call it fresh, but keep them like from going off. 132 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:12,719 Speaker 3: And that obviously did lead to two big problems. But 133 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 3: one thing I would say as well is that when 134 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 3: you do read the book and you look at the 135 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 3: case studies, there doesn't. 136 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 2: Really, in my opinion, seems to be much rhyme or. 137 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 3: Reason to people becoming obese that there was a girl 138 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 3: who really starts the book off her mother is, you know, 139 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 3: very attentive, makes food out of their vegetable patch in 140 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:34,719 Speaker 3: their garden. Like by no means is this girl eating 141 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 3: lots of junk food. But her body is bigger and 142 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:41,039 Speaker 3: she is more hungry than her sister, and she you know, 143 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:43,479 Speaker 3: continuously puts on weight as she gets older. And that 144 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 3: would I would definitely think that the food industry is 145 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 3: a factor in that well. 146 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:49,840 Speaker 1: And you have the twins studies, so that was also 147 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:52,919 Speaker 1: interesting because they which I thought, how much did they 148 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 1: pay these people to be willing to do this because 149 00:06:55,600 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 1: multiple twins, so identical twins, They fed them all increased 150 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 1: amount of calories, like twelve hundred extra calories and a day, 151 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:09,479 Speaker 1: and these people gained about thirty pounds, but they all 152 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 1: gained it in different areas too, and some of them 153 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:14,119 Speaker 1: didn't gain weight. But yes, so it was interesting because 154 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 1: some twins no weighed at all, some twins up to 155 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: thirty pounds, and some twins they got it in the 156 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 1: thighs and some twins got it in the stomach, but 157 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 1: it wasn't consistent. 158 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 3: No, no, And I think that that is I think 159 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 3: that one of the scientists that I spoke to for 160 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 3: this book, who was one of the developers of ozempic 161 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 3: in Novanordesk and Denmark, is that he had this real 162 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 3: battle within the company, within the bosses of this company, 163 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 3: trying to explain to them really the causes of obesity 164 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 3: because there was such a stigma. I mean there still 165 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 3: is a stigma, but there was such a stigma in 166 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 3: the nineties about obesity. Nobody was calling it a disease 167 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 3: in the mainstream. Nobody was kind of even thinking about 168 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 3: it like that, and it was really seen as like, 169 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 3: you don't have willpower, you are weak in some way, 170 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 3: you can't help yourself eating all these huge portions, and 171 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 3: that's why you're overweight. And he had to literally kind 172 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 3: of trot a load of experts into these executives and say, 173 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 3: here is the science. 174 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 2: Here are the people who will show you the genetic links. 175 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 3: And actually it goes back to like the ice age 176 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 3: that we literally you survived if you could retain fat, 177 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 3: that's what allowed you to kind of propagate the species, 178 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 3: is that you could go into a cave for the 179 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 3: really bad winters, and if you could hold on to 180 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 3: as much fat as you could, you survived, And then 181 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 3: that works fine if there isn't a lot of food around. 182 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 3: But if there is abundant food and limitless food, which 183 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 3: is the world that much of the Western world is 184 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 3: living in now, it just doesn't work. 185 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:41,080 Speaker 2: That our bodies just don't work in that way. 186 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 1: So it was also interesting to listen to or read 187 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 1: about Sarah, the character that not a characters. This is 188 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 1: her real life. What you were talking about where her parents. 189 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 1: Her mom was making food out of the garden, but 190 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 1: she had gained weight and at a certain point she 191 00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 1: had been about one hundred pounds overweight and she was 192 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 1: so she found ozempic or, one of the weight loss drugs, 193 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:07,560 Speaker 1: and she started taking it. She lost first it was 194 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 1: like seventy pounds and overall I think she ended up 195 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 1: losing one hundred pounds. She and her husband started doing 196 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 1: things that they had never done before. So it was 197 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:17,720 Speaker 1: very interesting because it wasn't just that her story struck 198 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 1: me because she didn't just take the drug and lose 199 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 1: weight and become thin. She changed her lifestyle because having 200 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 1: less weight on her body, she was able to run 201 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 1: a marathon, she was able to do exercise in a 202 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 1: different way. It had changed her ability to live a 203 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 1: healthier life because she wasn't fighting her body constantly gaining weight. 204 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 1: But it also changed the way people treated her, which 205 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 1: was it's like a reality we don't want to talk about. 206 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:47,840 Speaker 1: We don't want to admit that people treat you differently 207 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:52,559 Speaker 1: if you're not overweight. And she very begrudgingly talks about 208 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 1: this with you. It's like even my own father took 209 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:59,440 Speaker 1: longer to talk to me than he had in the past. 210 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:02,199 Speaker 1: That that was kind of stunning, and I think it 211 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:06,359 Speaker 1: took us to a place where we said to ourselves, 212 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 1: as we read this, body positivity was never going to 213 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 1: change this inherent I don't know, it's like this reaction 214 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:18,559 Speaker 1: to someone who we believe is overweight. And I do 215 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 1: think that there is still a stigma attached that like 216 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:24,200 Speaker 1: you're not doing enough, but bodies are different. 217 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 3: We find I know, I found that probably the most 218 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 3: like sort of amazing thing writing this book was and 219 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 3: actually I thought that was probably for me. The most 220 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 3: interesting thing was sort of the societal impact of all 221 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 3: of this. And as you said that there is and 222 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 3: all of these all of these people I spoke to 223 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 3: for the book, they really didn't criticize their parents, Like 224 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:48,960 Speaker 3: she wasn't criticizing her father for the fact that he 225 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 3: was more interested in her. 226 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 2: Like I kind of said, was how was he as 227 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 2: a dad? She's like, he was a great dad. 228 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 3: He was always around, he was you know, loving, but 229 00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:58,120 Speaker 3: he just was a bit absent, Like we'd be talking 230 00:10:58,120 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 3: and I could just tell he wasn't really that interested 231 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 3: in what I was saying. But then she loses all 232 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:04,839 Speaker 3: this weight, and I see, it's hard to know sort 233 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:07,200 Speaker 3: of chicken or of the egg. Is it that she 234 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:09,439 Speaker 3: sort of comes out of herself in a way. Is 235 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 3: that she's she's getting such a like lovely response to 236 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 3: herself in her life and her work in Starbucks when 237 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:19,559 Speaker 3: she goes into coffee for coffee, men are holding doors, 238 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:22,320 Speaker 3: like all of this is like surely boosting her. Maybe 239 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 3: she is actually a much more engaging person because because 240 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:29,120 Speaker 3: of that, because maybe she doesn't feel as I don't know, 241 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 3: inhibit it. 242 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 1: And that's something that struck me when you had that 243 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 1: in the book where she said I was introverted? But 244 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:39,320 Speaker 1: was I introverted because people didn't want to engage with me? 245 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:41,680 Speaker 1: And then when they did, I came out of my 246 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 1: shell in a different way and I was more willing 247 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 1: to engage. 248 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:47,200 Speaker 4: And you kind of wonder if I mean my dad. 249 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 1: I think dads and daughters have like this period where 250 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 1: you don't really understand each other when you're in your 251 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 1: early early twenties, like late teens and then and that 252 00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 1: was kind of how my relationship was with my dad. 253 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 1: And then I started working, and as I was working 254 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 1: and getting promotions, we had more to connect on. So 255 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 1: you do kind of wonder if it was she was 256 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 1: getting massive promotions at work, which she credited to losing weight, 257 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 1: which is sad but a reality we should talk about, 258 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 1: and then she had a better connection with other people. 259 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:23,440 Speaker 1: It is all very interesting. It is, it is, and 260 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 1: it is I think. That's what I mean is I 261 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 1: think when you delve into it, it's hard. As I said, 262 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 1: it's hard to blame people, but there is something that 263 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:33,680 Speaker 1: really like when I started just asking people in my 264 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 1: everyday life, you know, what is your experience of when 265 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:40,199 Speaker 1: you're thinner versus when you've got more weight on. And 266 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 1: I'm like in my early forties, so lots of my 267 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:45,439 Speaker 1: friends have had kids, so they can kind of talk 268 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:47,960 Speaker 1: about this. And one friend of mine said that she 269 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:49,480 Speaker 1: was sitting around with all of her friends and they 270 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:52,200 Speaker 1: said that their moms are nicer to them when they're thinner. 271 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 1: And I was like, what do you mean, and she said, 272 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 1: I don't know, She's just nicer, She's like more engaged, more. 273 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 2: And so I do think that that to me as well. 274 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:05,480 Speaker 2: I have a daughter. 275 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 3: I just find that baffling that I would be somehow 276 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 3: to treat her differently if she was smaller versus bigger. 277 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 3: I just think that, yeah, you're right, there is something 278 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:17,360 Speaker 3: we have to kind of look at ourselves. And I 279 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 3: think that hopefully this book kind of makes you think 280 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:22,080 Speaker 3: about this, is that there is this disease out there, 281 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:25,600 Speaker 3: which is obesity. It does cause all sorts of health 282 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:28,520 Speaker 3: related problems. These drugs are really ideal for that in 283 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 3: many ways. But there's also a lot of people, and 284 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:33,120 Speaker 3: I've spoken to a lot of these people as well, 285 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:35,199 Speaker 3: who want to lose twenty pounds and they want to 286 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:37,840 Speaker 3: get back to what they were in their early thirties, 287 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 3: late twenties. They really want that, and that is like paramount, 288 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:45,320 Speaker 3: Like they'll go onto a website and buy a knockoff 289 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 3: version of these drugs just to get that back. And 290 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:50,200 Speaker 3: I often say to them, I like, you know, would 291 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 3: you do that with anything else? Would you buy any 292 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 3: other hormone on the internet and just take it. 293 00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 2: Without a thought? 294 00:13:58,120 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 4: Right? 295 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:02,959 Speaker 1: And that is the desperation of fitting in. 296 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 4: Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on 297 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:07,199 Speaker 4: the Tutor Dixon podcast. 298 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:13,680 Speaker 1: I look at my girls. I have four daughters, and 299 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 1: I look at how life has been through elementary school, 300 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 1: middle school, and high school, and just the size of 301 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 1: kids compared to when I was young. And you talk 302 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 1: about the food industry having changed, when you talked about 303 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 1: the fact that women are not able to spend three 304 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 1: hours cooking at home anymore, it's not just that. It 305 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 1: is that we are buying food that is quick and convenient, 306 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:40,760 Speaker 1: but also has addictive qualities that we didn't know we're 307 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 1: in there. So oftentimes we go to the grocery store 308 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 1: and we're like, oh, this says something on it that 309 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 1: looks like it's got vitamins, or it's got protein, or 310 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 1: it's got something that makes you go that means that 311 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 1: must mean it's healthy. But there's an addictive quality. So 312 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: not only did we start to gain weight, but the 313 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:02,560 Speaker 1: food industry. We saw us as like, I mean, it's 314 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 1: almost like, oh, we can get them addicted to this, 315 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 1: and we can get them addicted to that, just like 316 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: nicotine or alcohol. 317 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 3: So I don't The thing is, I struggled a little 318 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 3: bit with this idea because I don't necessarily think that 319 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 3: there was I don't know if they were. 320 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 2: It was lilious. It just happened. 321 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 3: Yes, yes, I don't think it was as calculated as that. 322 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 3: That's just my impression. 323 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 2: Anyway. 324 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:27,280 Speaker 3: It was sort of like an awful accident in a 325 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 3: way that they put all these things into these foods 326 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 3: really to kind of prolong. 327 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 2: Their shelf life, to boost their margins. 328 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 3: I think that was really the point of this was 329 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 3: to make these companies more profitable. 330 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:39,600 Speaker 1: They could sell was a change in life. We had 331 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 1: to make food faster. 332 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 2: That's right. There are. 333 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 3: But there were some sort of cynical things that they did, 334 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 3: like the cereal boxes, having the cartoons like you know, 335 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 3: the tiger that actually makes eye contact with kids when 336 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 3: they're on like a certain shelf like that. To me, 337 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 3: that feels like you're manipulating a consumer in order to 338 00:15:57,840 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 3: get them to these things and. 339 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 1: Shoals in Saturday morning cartoons Saturday morning. 340 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 3: Yes, exactly exactly. And I used to eat lots of 341 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 3: cereal when I was a kid. Now I kind of 342 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 3: think when I look at my kids, I'm like, they 343 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 3: should really be eating protein in the morning, they should 344 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 3: be eating yogurt, they should be eating all these different things. 345 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 3: But and I do like to your point about like 346 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 3: the supermarkets, I do go into a grocery store and 347 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 3: I spend a lot of time reading the back of labels. 348 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 2: I spend like. 349 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 3: More time than I would like to thinking about how 350 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 3: much sugar is in this? You know, what's stabilizer? Are 351 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 3: there excess ingredients that don't need to be in there? 352 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 3: If there are, can I can I buy something else? 353 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 3: And I think that's that's very tiresome that we're even 354 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 3: in the situation where that is you know, that is 355 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 3: what's going on. 356 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, you feel betrayed that you have to do that, 357 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 1: Like why do I have to read to see if 358 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 1: you are putting something poisonous? Which I agree, I think 359 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 1: it kind of was the perfect storm of we have 360 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 1: to create something that has long shelf life but also 361 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 1: can be made quickly and actually consist of a meal. 362 00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 1: And ultimately we've been putting this into our body with 363 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 1: and I think the sugar content seems to be really 364 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:05,200 Speaker 1: high on a lot of these things. I mean, you 365 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:08,480 Speaker 1: talk about Nestli and some of the foods that they have, 366 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 1: and they're I mean, oftentimes those foods are like breakfast 367 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 1: type foods, and they have vitamins and all these like 368 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 1: important things, but they're also filled, filled, filled with sugar. 369 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:26,720 Speaker 1: And we've gotten used to saying, well, if they're getting 370 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:28,920 Speaker 1: chocolate milk, it's okay because they're getting milk. 371 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 4: But then you look at the amount. 372 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 1: I mean, it's like, why don't you just pour in 373 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:35,439 Speaker 1: three tablespoons of sugar into their mouths in the morning. 374 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:36,240 Speaker 2: Yes. 375 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:38,399 Speaker 3: And I one thing as well that also really kind 376 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 3: of gets to me is the sort of double speak 377 00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:42,959 Speaker 3: about nutrition, like nutrition that it has all these vitamins 378 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 3: as you said, and all of these things, but the 379 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 3: fact is it's not food in terms of like a 380 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:49,919 Speaker 3: whole food that you would I would know it, or 381 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 3: or food that you know, because whole food fills you 382 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 3: up like a chicken breast, a salmon fillis. 383 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 2: These things fill you up. 384 00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 3: But actually the types of ready meals and all those 385 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:01,920 Speaker 3: things slots about it, they actually don't make you feel full, 386 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:04,159 Speaker 3: and typically you're I'm going to be beat a McDonald's. 387 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:06,400 Speaker 2: You're often hungrier an hour later. 388 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:07,919 Speaker 3: And it is this kind of, as you said, this 389 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:10,359 Speaker 3: kind of cocktail of fat and sugar and salt, which 390 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 3: which do nothing for us, I think in terms of 391 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:14,200 Speaker 3: our health. 392 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:17,720 Speaker 1: I guess that's been kind of the stunning thing to 393 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:20,399 Speaker 1: find out, is that we're eating food that is making 394 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:23,160 Speaker 1: us want to eat more food, and that it makes 395 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:25,159 Speaker 1: so much sense now you can see it. I mean, 396 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 1: I remember when I was young and in high school, 397 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:31,680 Speaker 1: everybody decided to go fat free, which was silly. Now 398 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:36,560 Speaker 1: we know that we would have an entire pantry filled 399 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:41,240 Speaker 1: with fat free cookies. What a stupid thing, I mean, 400 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 1: but we were like, oh, we're not going. 401 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 4: To get any weight. We're eating a massive amount of 402 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:46,640 Speaker 4: fat free cookies. 403 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 2: But I think that is funny. 404 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 3: But I think also in a way which I think 405 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:55,640 Speaker 3: is terrible, is you were you thought you were doing 406 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:59,119 Speaker 3: the right thing. You were responding to a company telling 407 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:01,720 Speaker 3: you that this was somehow healthier than if you had 408 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:04,720 Speaker 3: just eaten one full fat chocolate chip cookie, and you 409 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:07,040 Speaker 3: would have known that that was how many calories were 410 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:08,920 Speaker 3: in it. And it wasn't healthy for you. It would 411 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:12,359 Speaker 3: have been seen as a treat. But I think these companies, 412 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:14,720 Speaker 3: which again I kind of delve into with the book, 413 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 3: is they are really now facing a reckoning, which is 414 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 3: that the people who are going on these drugs don't 415 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:25,320 Speaker 3: want their food. And there was this very interesting daily 416 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:27,159 Speaker 3: podcast from the New York Times where they kind of 417 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:30,240 Speaker 3: followed people around who were on the drugs and they 418 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:33,120 Speaker 3: walk right past the Doritos, all of the processed food, 419 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:34,880 Speaker 3: and they go straight for the produce style. 420 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:37,919 Speaker 2: They're going vegetables. I've spoken to a lot of people. 421 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 3: A lady I spoke to for the book who told 422 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:43,200 Speaker 3: me basically that she her and her husband were trying 423 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,199 Speaker 3: to buy a house, so they were really watching what 424 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:48,119 Speaker 3: they spent, so she knew how much she was spending 425 00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:49,959 Speaker 3: on takeout every month, and then she goes on these 426 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:53,199 Speaker 3: drugs and that takeout bill goes down to zero. So 427 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 3: she said, I was just craving salmon and vegetables and 428 00:19:57,160 --> 00:19:59,199 Speaker 3: really healthy food. That's all I wanted, and all that 429 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 3: other stuff made me feel kind of sick. But then 430 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:03,760 Speaker 3: she decides she wanted to have a baby, so she 431 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 3: goes off the drugs, and she watches that takeout, they'll 432 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:09,440 Speaker 3: go right back to where it was before she went 433 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:09,800 Speaker 3: on them. 434 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:11,720 Speaker 2: So that's the other thing. 435 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:15,159 Speaker 1: It's a hormone, So it makes you think like, okay, 436 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:18,200 Speaker 1: so I must be missing something and if I'm taking this, 437 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:22,359 Speaker 1: then this must be like the answer to everything. And 438 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:24,639 Speaker 1: I've always been told if it's too good to be true, 439 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:27,679 Speaker 1: it cannot possibly be true. But people are losing a 440 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:30,720 Speaker 1: massive amount of weight, their heart disease is getting better, 441 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:34,359 Speaker 1: diabetes is getting better, heart our blood pressure is getting better. 442 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:37,359 Speaker 4: So why is in everybody on this? 443 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 3: So there's a few things. It's a hormone, first of all, 444 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:44,480 Speaker 3: and it's a very very powerful foremone. This is the 445 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:46,960 Speaker 3: hormone that is created in your stomach when you eat 446 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:49,119 Speaker 3: like a Thanksgiving dinner. So this is the hormone that 447 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 3: basically tells you you're full, you don't need anymore. It 448 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:53,879 Speaker 3: sends a message up your vegus nerve up to your 449 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:56,680 Speaker 3: brain and it's like stop eating. It's a very important hormone. 450 00:20:57,240 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 3: So I think that there is very specific prescription rules 451 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:03,639 Speaker 3: about this drug, which is that you need to have 452 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:06,120 Speaker 3: a BMI of over thirty, which means that you are 453 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 3: living with obesity, and typically in a lot of countries 454 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:13,520 Speaker 3: in Europe anyway, you need another sort of ailment that's associated. 455 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 2: So that's like type two diabetes. 456 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:17,639 Speaker 3: It could be kidney disease, it could be fatty liver disease. 457 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:21,560 Speaker 3: So I think at the moment, there's no trials going 458 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:24,399 Speaker 3: on of healthy people taking these drugs, as in like 459 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:26,440 Speaker 3: healthy weight weighted people taking these drugs. 460 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:29,399 Speaker 1: It's like we're hearing though that doctors are telling people, 461 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 1: healthy people, people with a. 462 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:34,399 Speaker 4: Lower BMI to microdose this. 463 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 1: Yes, like oh, you should just just to keep yourself 464 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:38,800 Speaker 1: at that. 465 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:40,679 Speaker 4: Weight or even lower. 466 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:43,119 Speaker 1: I mean, I know for a fact that I know 467 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:46,560 Speaker 1: people who are at an unhealthy weight who are using 468 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 1: somehow they've gotten this. I don't know if it's tele 469 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:51,640 Speaker 1: medicine or what, but somehow they're getting it. I don't 470 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:52,840 Speaker 1: know if they're lying or what. 471 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 2: There is. 472 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:57,880 Speaker 3: Again, like whenever I go to like dinner parties or drinks, 473 00:21:57,920 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 3: people tell me all the lengths that their friends have 474 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:02,000 Speaker 3: gone to get these drugs. So one thing people will 475 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:04,639 Speaker 3: do for telehealth is a good example. They'll stand on 476 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:06,959 Speaker 3: a weighing scales and they'll hold like a weight, like 477 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,639 Speaker 3: you know, like a ten kilogram weight or like twenty 478 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:12,160 Speaker 3: pound weight, and that will show that the scales is higher, 479 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:14,200 Speaker 3: because that's one of the things that like telehealth want 480 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 3: to see is that you have a like obviously they 481 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 3: know what your height is, and then they know what 482 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:19,960 Speaker 3: your weight is. Another thing is that they might like 483 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:21,879 Speaker 3: wear a bulky coat so they look bigger. 484 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,480 Speaker 1: Other people have kind of squeezed folds into their stomach. 485 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:28,960 Speaker 1: And think about that. That goes to what you were saying, like, 486 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 1: would you do this with anything else? Would you just 487 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:33,480 Speaker 1: put any other hormone in your body? We're so desperate 488 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 1: to be thin. 489 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:38,439 Speaker 3: Yes, So I think that there And again there is 490 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 3: a chapter of the book that really kind of goes 491 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:43,919 Speaker 3: through the side effects. And for some people they're okay 492 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:46,399 Speaker 3: and they can manage them, but there is for most people, 493 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 3: they experience some level of nausea, diarrhea, like gastric issues 494 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:53,920 Speaker 3: because they it's your gut that these hormones are affecting. 495 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,879 Speaker 3: Then there's the people who have really kind of then 496 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:02,080 Speaker 3: they have like really chronic, terrible symptoms where they really 497 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:04,920 Speaker 3: can't stomach any food and eventually they come off them. 498 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:06,960 Speaker 3: And about fifty percent of people who go on these 499 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:09,720 Speaker 3: drugs a year later they come off them, and that 500 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:11,879 Speaker 3: could be a number of factors. That could be they 501 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:14,720 Speaker 3: just get fatigued taking a drug. It could be that 502 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:17,240 Speaker 3: the side effects are too bad. It could be that 503 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 3: the cost is too high. But to your point, why 504 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:22,680 Speaker 3: is everybody not taking them? Even the people who are 505 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:26,119 Speaker 3: taking them are not staying on them. So that shows 506 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:28,680 Speaker 3: that there are flaws in these drugs, and I think 507 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:30,960 Speaker 3: that side effects would probably be a very big one, 508 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 3: which is why when a lot of friends of mine say, 509 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 3: who are ten to fifteen pounds, that they see above 510 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:38,920 Speaker 3: what they should be, I do say to them, this 511 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 3: is a very powerful drug, and yeah, we've got about 512 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 3: twenty years of data, and that's a lot of data. 513 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 3: That's that's enough, I think to probably say that it's 514 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:48,440 Speaker 3: unlikely that these things will cause cancer and things like that. 515 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,359 Speaker 3: But at the same time, you are using a very 516 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 3: powerful pharmaceutical drug that was intended for people living with 517 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:59,680 Speaker 3: a deadly disease that causes cancers and type two diabetes 518 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:02,359 Speaker 3: and all sorts of other awful things. They are not 519 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 3: intended for people, in my opinion, to microdos unless a 520 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,359 Speaker 3: doctor is really properly telling you that. In the FDA 521 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:10,880 Speaker 3: has told you that that's okay. 522 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:15,879 Speaker 1: Right, because there's this situation where you start to lose muscle, 523 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:19,120 Speaker 1: it's not just that you lose weight. So I find 524 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:23,120 Speaker 1: it interesting because the big food market, I guess big 525 00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:26,040 Speaker 1: food industry is looking at this now and they're like, Okay, 526 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 1: people aren't eating art doritos, so let's put protein into 527 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,400 Speaker 1: pasta and tell them this is healthy. And let's make 528 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 1: high fiber, like this is high fiber. 529 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:35,360 Speaker 4: And then the. 530 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:38,000 Speaker 1: Supplement industry gets in because people's hair is falling out. 531 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 1: I'm like, what in the world if I already have 532 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:42,440 Speaker 1: my hair falling out, I don't need more hair. I mean, 533 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:46,640 Speaker 1: I'm thin but bald, Like, this is not a good compromise. 534 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:50,800 Speaker 1: And then you see Starbucks. Starbucks has these protein infuse coffees. 535 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 1: I'm like, why do I need protein infuse coffee? And 536 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,199 Speaker 1: I don't, And then I don't know that, so I 537 00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 1: think I'm not on ozembic am. I like, oh, because 538 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:02,639 Speaker 1: I am also Marketer's dream. When I see that, I'm like, amazing, 539 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 1: I must need a protein infused coffee, but I don't, 540 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:09,199 Speaker 1: So then I'm buy it, and I think this is 541 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:10,240 Speaker 1: also a disaster. 542 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,439 Speaker 3: It goes back to your fat free cookies, like it is, 543 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 3: it's it is, It's true, it's all this, it's all 544 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:20,800 Speaker 3: this idea your so calls exactly. I think that that 545 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:24,199 Speaker 3: is probably, in my opinion, the most depressing thing that 546 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 3: has happened, which is that if, as you said, if 547 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:30,639 Speaker 3: these strokes are so good at controlling your you know, 548 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 3: heart disease and preventing strokes and you know, preventing people 549 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 3: from going a kidney dialysis, which there is data to 550 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:42,680 Speaker 3: suggest that as well, but then the food industry actually decides, well, actually, 551 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,400 Speaker 3: you might be craving a salmon pilet, but I can 552 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 3: make you this ready meal that can sit on a 553 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 3: shelf for a year and it tastes just like that 554 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:52,439 Speaker 3: salmon pillt that you're craving, and it and the problem 555 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 3: goes on. And I think that is that's not a 556 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:57,520 Speaker 3: good place to be in. And I think that I 557 00:25:57,560 --> 00:25:59,560 Speaker 3: did mention this to one of the scientists who was 558 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,320 Speaker 3: involved and creating things, and she was just so mad 559 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:03,160 Speaker 3: when I told her that. 560 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,680 Speaker 2: She just was like, oh my god, no, no, no. 561 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 3: This was these are supposed to be fixing this problem. 562 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 1: So yeah, I think so they figured out a way 563 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,679 Speaker 1: because I find it interesting that you're like, Okay, so 564 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,360 Speaker 1: people start craving salads and they go to the pro 565 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:22,359 Speaker 1: or the produce section. They're getting like, you know, those fresh, 566 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 1: crunchy foods, and then you read that big food is like, 567 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 1: we've decided it's a mouthfeel thing that they don't like 568 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:31,679 Speaker 1: from our old food that they got addicted to, so 569 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 1: now we're gonna make it crunchier. They are kind of 570 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 1: mimicking the mouth feel, which I don't like that word. 571 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:40,399 Speaker 1: It freaks me out for some reason, but the mouthfeel 572 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:46,760 Speaker 1: of fresh food in a highly processed food to get 573 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 1: us back into eating bad food, which is crazy. I mean, 574 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 1: I get it, it's this is capitalism, this is an industry, 575 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 1: but I still am like, oh my gosh, this is 576 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,479 Speaker 1: how crazy what we're eating actually is. 577 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 2: I think I think the mouthfeel I agree with you. 578 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:02,920 Speaker 3: I remember hearing that term for the first time and 579 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:04,720 Speaker 3: I was like, that is the most disgusting thing I've 580 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 3: ever heard of. 581 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 2: Like that this that like yogurt. 582 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:09,960 Speaker 3: Apparently low fat yogurt really doesn't have a good mouthfeel 583 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,280 Speaker 3: to it, like doesn't have the same as like full 584 00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:14,159 Speaker 3: fat yogurt does. So they're always trying to figure out 585 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:17,280 Speaker 3: ways to tweak it chalky and not smooth. 586 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, so they do. They spend a lot of time. 587 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 3: But I think that what food manufacturers are thinking is 588 00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:26,760 Speaker 3: that people are ultimately lazy and not even like time poored, 589 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 3: just a bit lazy. So if you think to yourself 590 00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 3: that you don't like soda anymore, so you like are 591 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 3: squeezing your lemons into your water and you're you know, 592 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,960 Speaker 3: that's what you're craving. They're like, don't squeeze the lemon. 593 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:40,679 Speaker 3: We'll squeeze the lemon for you. And we have to 594 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 3: do with some other things to it too, but we'll 595 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:44,880 Speaker 3: do that and then you can buy it in cans, 596 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 3: you put it into your shelf and it's all great. 597 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 3: So I do think that that's the way they're going 598 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:50,840 Speaker 3: to get around this. But I think when you look 599 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 3: at the valuations of these companies, to stop price these companies, 600 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 3: I don't think that's invest what investors think is going 601 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 3: to happen. I think investors think that these guys are 602 00:27:57,640 --> 00:27:59,320 Speaker 3: going to get smaller and that is just going to 603 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,080 Speaker 3: be a reality that maybe they can do tweaks around 604 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,320 Speaker 3: the edges. But if you're not if you're not creating 605 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 3: this stuff, and you walk into a supermarket and you 606 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:10,760 Speaker 3: see this lovely chicken breast that looks great. Maybe that 607 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,480 Speaker 3: is what you gotta go for rather than the ready meal, 608 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 3: and I think, yeah, I think hopefully that's the future. 609 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 4: It has made me rethink everything. 610 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 1: I mean, and I had already I had already been looking, 611 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:24,879 Speaker 1: you know, I'd already been curious about what's in the 612 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,480 Speaker 1: labels and how do I just what the girls are eating, 613 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:29,159 Speaker 1: and how do I try to be more focused on 614 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:29,760 Speaker 1: what we're eating? 615 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,199 Speaker 4: But you do you get busy to run back to 616 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:32,719 Speaker 4: the office. 617 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:35,280 Speaker 1: Oh, I'll just get Chick fil A on my way home. 618 00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:37,119 Speaker 1: I mean, I am guilty of that. And then you 619 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 1: just said that thing about the water, and I'm like, 620 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:41,360 Speaker 1: I fell for this. Yesterday I went to the airport 621 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 1: and there was a water that was called Hint because 622 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:47,560 Speaker 1: it had a hint of watermelon flavor, and I'm like, 623 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,600 Speaker 1: that sounds lovely. What else was in it I've done? 624 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 1: And where did the watermelon flavor come from? Because it 625 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:57,720 Speaker 1: didn't look like watermelon. H Yes, I'm still falling for. 626 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:01,760 Speaker 3: It, absolutely absolutely, But I mean I have spoken to 627 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:05,160 Speaker 3: people who say that this will be like statins in 628 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 3: the future, like these drugs will be like Staaten's that 629 00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:09,920 Speaker 3: you will reach a certain age and most people will 630 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 3: be on them. And I think that that does speak 631 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,000 Speaker 3: to the fact that in America, for example, about seventy 632 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 3: percent of people are overweight or living with obesity, so 633 00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:21,000 Speaker 3: that that would be most people would be on these drugs. 634 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,000 Speaker 1: Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on 635 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 1: the Tutor Dixon Podcast. Okay, but you are thin, but 636 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:31,600 Speaker 1: you look different. 637 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,000 Speaker 4: It's not the same thin as just a healthy thin. 638 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 1: And you can definitely tell that the muscle tone is 639 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 1: not there, or it's like weird. The muscles are sticking 640 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 1: out and the skin is hanging. It's like a weird look. 641 00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:46,960 Speaker 1: I mean, you brought up Katy Perry, and I'm not 642 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,040 Speaker 1: saying Katy Perry is on this, but I did see 643 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:51,400 Speaker 1: a picture of her with the Prime Minister who is 644 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,960 Speaker 1: apparently now her boyfriend of Canada with the Prime Minister 645 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:58,440 Speaker 1: of Japan, I think, and I was like, this is 646 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:00,320 Speaker 1: going to be your best look, right, because you are 647 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,960 Speaker 1: gonna look as good as you can to go meet 648 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 1: the Prime Minister of Japan, I mean, I would think, 649 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:08,920 Speaker 1: and she looked like hell I have to say, and 650 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,440 Speaker 1: I'm not someone that like rips some people. I mean, 651 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:14,160 Speaker 1: she looked beautiful because she's Katy Perry, but she just 652 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 1: didn't look like Katy Perry. I should say that, not 653 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,240 Speaker 1: like hell. I didn't like the way she had her hairstyled, 654 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:21,240 Speaker 1: but you know what, to each their own. But her 655 00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:25,880 Speaker 1: face does look sunken in and she has it doesn't. 656 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:26,480 Speaker 2: Look like her face. 657 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:28,800 Speaker 1: It's just like she looks very different in her and 658 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,000 Speaker 1: her body is not there's no shape to it. 659 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:34,280 Speaker 4: It's just like she was like a line with arms. 660 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,120 Speaker 4: It's a strange look. It doesn't look the. 661 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 1: Same as you yourself if you just lost weight working out, 662 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,760 Speaker 1: which I and I also understand that that's also not 663 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:48,560 Speaker 1: something everybody can do. But I feel like there are 664 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:53,600 Speaker 1: certain people who Katy Perry was never like obese. 665 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:56,400 Speaker 3: So I think the one thing that I would say 666 00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 3: about all of this, and I have to say, I 667 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:01,880 Speaker 3: the one thing I guess I'm uncomfortable about is even 668 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,960 Speaker 3: like discussing people who might be on these drugs or 669 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:07,440 Speaker 3: might not be on these drugs, just because I think 670 00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:09,800 Speaker 3: that speaks to like, again, this whole idea of like 671 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 3: people's bodies are sort of like a commodity that we 672 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:15,320 Speaker 3: could just like you didn't mean like we could just discuss. 673 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:18,760 Speaker 3: But I think to the point about, there are side 674 00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:20,760 Speaker 3: effects that go along with these drugs. 675 00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:23,800 Speaker 2: So for example, you get hollowed out cheeks. 676 00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 3: So one of the people I spoke to for the book, 677 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:27,520 Speaker 3: she talked about having actually to go through a lot 678 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:29,840 Speaker 3: of plastic surgery after losing a lot of weight. 679 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:30,800 Speaker 2: She said that she. 680 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:35,320 Speaker 3: Could hold literally like handfuls of her skin and her 681 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,920 Speaker 3: back and her buttocks because she was losing so much weight. 682 00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:41,240 Speaker 3: And I think to your point about is if you 683 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:43,800 Speaker 3: were to diet and exercise, you lose about twenty five 684 00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:45,560 Speaker 3: percent muscle mass when you do that. 685 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:46,720 Speaker 2: That's a lot, But. 686 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:48,880 Speaker 3: That's not that's what they'll be another like we'll call 687 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,120 Speaker 3: it a natural diet. If you're on a zempic, you 688 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,160 Speaker 3: lose forty percent muscle mass. 689 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:54,560 Speaker 4: Are you serious? 690 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 2: Forty percent? 691 00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:58,200 Speaker 3: And that's and that is really bad if you are older, 692 00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:01,480 Speaker 3: because you've become more prone to full There was a 693 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 3: there was a lady I listened to. I went to 694 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,000 Speaker 3: a conference in Texas last year and it was an 695 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,760 Speaker 3: obesity conference. So everyone there was like an expersion obesity 696 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:11,320 Speaker 3: and there was a lady who was running a trial 697 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:15,680 Speaker 3: with veterans who were taking ozembic and these weight loss drugs, 698 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:17,760 Speaker 3: and she got a call from the guy who was 699 00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:19,840 Speaker 3: running the day that was like, you need to stop 700 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,360 Speaker 3: this trial and she said why and he said, they're 701 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:24,440 Speaker 3: losing too much muscle. This is really dangerous for them. 702 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:26,080 Speaker 3: They're going to start having falls. They're going to start 703 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:28,400 Speaker 3: having bad falls. And then she said that they had 704 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:31,800 Speaker 3: this big kind of discussion about the fact that they 705 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,920 Speaker 3: which was worse, which was worse of the obese effects, 706 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:39,240 Speaker 3: like basically the problems with the disease or these falls. 707 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,160 Speaker 3: And what they decided was they would monitor the falls 708 00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:45,000 Speaker 3: make sure that their falls weren't happening, but that would 709 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 3: be something that you would start to see with people 710 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:49,960 Speaker 3: losing a lot of muscle mass. So that is and 711 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:52,240 Speaker 3: when I speak to endochronologists to these are the people. 712 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:54,600 Speaker 3: This is another reason I think why everyone shouldn't be 713 00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 3: on these drugs is if you're being prescribed these drugs 714 00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 3: properly under the guidance and supervision of doctor, they will 715 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,239 Speaker 3: see the symptoms and they will be looking at your 716 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 3: body going okay, so enough of that, let's keep you 717 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:10,000 Speaker 3: on the stoves a little bit longer because your stomach 718 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 3: side effects are too bad or you're losing too much 719 00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:14,680 Speaker 3: muscle mass. But if you're at home and you've just 720 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,600 Speaker 3: bought these as like a compound from your pharmacy, nobody's 721 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 3: watching you, nobody's observing you. I do think that this 722 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 3: would have a lot of effects on your body, and 723 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:26,880 Speaker 3: effects that, like, as you said, effects that maybe are 724 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:30,120 Speaker 3: not the way they should be and or have to be, 725 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:32,959 Speaker 3: you know. And but yeah, I think that's that's kind 726 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:35,120 Speaker 3: of what we're seeing with certain people who lose a 727 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:36,760 Speaker 3: huge bound of weight very very quickly. 728 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:39,120 Speaker 1: I have so many more questions, but I know we're 729 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:43,200 Speaker 1: out of town time. I have seen, you know, we've 730 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:46,640 Speaker 1: seen like people that it shows it's in their refrigerator 731 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,280 Speaker 1: when they're doing some reality show or something, and you 732 00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:53,200 Speaker 1: can you see that hollowed out cheek look. And you know, 733 00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:56,560 Speaker 1: I think we're all very curious. Everyone is curious because 734 00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,120 Speaker 1: no matter what I mean, as you get older, you're right, 735 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:02,160 Speaker 1: your body changed, and you're like, this seems so easy 736 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:04,880 Speaker 1: all I have to do. I want to not have 737 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:06,840 Speaker 1: to work out, I want to not have to change 738 00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:10,319 Speaker 1: what I eat. I want something that I inject that 739 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:12,120 Speaker 1: just makes me change what I eat. I want it 740 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:15,200 Speaker 1: to just happen, you know, because I'm lazy and we 741 00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:20,080 Speaker 1: are all lazy. Let's face it, that sounds lovely. It's 742 00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:22,680 Speaker 1: just going to do it for me. But that's why 743 00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:25,440 Speaker 1: we are so curious as to like, Okay, what is 744 00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:27,719 Speaker 1: it really like? I read this terrible story which I 745 00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:29,479 Speaker 1: don't even know if this is true, but I read 746 00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:33,359 Speaker 1: this story where some people's skin is almost like it's 747 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:37,960 Speaker 1: not attached to their body anymore, like the ozembic had 748 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:39,399 Speaker 1: some weird effect on them. 749 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,719 Speaker 4: That sounds terrible. Does it reattach if you stop? I 750 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:45,120 Speaker 4: doubt it. I don't know. It freaks me out. 751 00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:49,320 Speaker 3: I haven't heard that, but I will lady with one anecdote, 752 00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:51,520 Speaker 3: which again I think speaks to what you're talking about 753 00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:54,719 Speaker 3: about how desperate people are. A woman I spoke to 754 00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,080 Speaker 3: said that she was really trying to get these drugs 755 00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,160 Speaker 3: and now she is not overweight in by any means, 756 00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:01,120 Speaker 3: and every doctor she w to. The doctor was like, no, 757 00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:04,200 Speaker 3: absolutely not. You do not fit the criteria for these drugs. 758 00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:07,080 Speaker 3: I'm not prescribing them to you. So she's talking to 759 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:10,400 Speaker 3: one of the mothers that drop off and they are 760 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:12,920 Speaker 3: a doctor and they're like, I could get you some ozampic. 761 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,360 Speaker 3: I'll get you some osampic. So she goes on ozempic 762 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,080 Speaker 3: and we had this discussion and I said, why are 763 00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:20,840 Speaker 3: you taking this? This is crazy and you're not overweight 764 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:23,840 Speaker 3: and she said, I have this weight, I've had three kids. 765 00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:25,800 Speaker 3: I want to lose this weight. I'm just going to 766 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,560 Speaker 3: do this. And then I said, but what happens if 767 00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:32,080 Speaker 3: this causes you long term problems? What if this shortens 768 00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:35,239 Speaker 3: your life somehow? And she said, I would rather die 769 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:38,440 Speaker 3: thin at sixty than live until I was eighty and 770 00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:38,960 Speaker 3: be fat. 771 00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:41,439 Speaker 4: Isn't that terrible that we feel that way? 772 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:45,200 Speaker 2: And I said, you would miss grandkids, weddings, all sorts 773 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:48,319 Speaker 2: of things, and she said, yep, but that's how That's 774 00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:50,120 Speaker 2: how important it was to her. 775 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:56,080 Speaker 1: So obviously our body positivity campaign didn't actually work well. 776 00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:59,120 Speaker 4: It stinks, and I don't like that. 777 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:02,759 Speaker 1: It's not this is not something that I take joy in. 778 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,880 Speaker 1: I didn't think it was working. But I also it 779 00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:07,920 Speaker 1: was a weird situation because we felt like we were 780 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:11,080 Speaker 1: celebrating being unhealthy. But then now when I read your book, 781 00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:13,520 Speaker 1: you go through all of the different body types and 782 00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,440 Speaker 1: how people react differently. I'm like, well, maybe we just 783 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:20,360 Speaker 1: needed to be smarter about the fact that our everybody's 784 00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:24,080 Speaker 1: body is processing something differently, and it is really hard 785 00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:25,799 Speaker 1: to get good food, and maybe we need to be 786 00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:28,640 Speaker 1: pushed back on the big food industry to say you've 787 00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:30,120 Speaker 1: got to take some of the stuff out, which I 788 00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:33,440 Speaker 1: think we're starting to say that, but it is. 789 00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:36,719 Speaker 2: All crazy, all crazy, absolutely. 790 00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:38,279 Speaker 1: Okay, So tell people where they can get the book 791 00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:41,120 Speaker 1: because it is very insightful and I do think that 792 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:44,120 Speaker 1: if you're curious about ozempic and you're curious about your 793 00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:47,799 Speaker 1: weight off the scales, the inside story of Ozempic and 794 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:49,560 Speaker 1: the race to kier obesity is for you. 795 00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:50,759 Speaker 4: So tell us where to find it. 796 00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:52,880 Speaker 3: You can find it on Amazon. You can find it 797 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:54,840 Speaker 3: on Barnes and Noble. It can find it on Target. 798 00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:57,239 Speaker 3: You find a pretty much at any bookstore. 799 00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:00,520 Speaker 1: And where can people follow you? 800 00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:03,360 Speaker 2: You can follow me. I'm on X and I'm on LinkedIn. 801 00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:07,040 Speaker 3: I have like a personal account which nobody will be 802 00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,120 Speaker 3: interested in because it's my kids basically on Instagram. 803 00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:12,040 Speaker 2: But I think X, basically at LinkedIn is where you 804 00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:12,560 Speaker 2: can find me. 805 00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:16,919 Speaker 4: Okay, awesome. Amy Donohan Thank you so much for being 806 00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:20,520 Speaker 4: on the podcast. I appreciate it. It was an enlightening conversation. 807 00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:24,400 Speaker 2: Very nice to talk to you too, Tutor, thank you absolutely. 808 00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:26,440 Speaker 1: And thank you all for listening to the Tutor Dixon podcast. 809 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:28,359 Speaker 1: You know where you can get it, the iHeartRadio app, 810 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,040 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts, and you 811 00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:34,160 Speaker 1: can watch it on Rumble or YouTube at Tutor Dixon. 812 00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:36,640 Speaker 1: But make sure you join us next time and have 813 00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:41,799 Speaker 1: a very blessed day.