WEBVTT - Laundry's Effect on Climate Change; Traffic Cameras Saving Lives 0:00:01.280 --> 0:00:05.119 You're listening to the Bloomberg Opinion podcast count US Saturdays 0:00:05.120 --> 0:00:08.280 at one and seven pm Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com, 0:00:08.320 --> 0:00:11.479 the iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business App, or listen 0:00:11.520 --> 0:00:13.760 on demand wherever you get your podcasts. 0:00:15.600 --> 0:00:19.119 Welcome to Bloomberg Opinion. I'm Amy Morris. On this week's show, 0:00:19.160 --> 0:00:21.400 we'll look at what's better for the planet running the 0:00:21.520 --> 0:00:26.000 dryer or using a clothesline. The answer might surprise you. Plus, 0:00:26.040 --> 0:00:29.000 since the beginning of the pandemic, traffic deaths in the 0:00:29.120 --> 0:00:32.599 US have risen sharply. What will it take to get 0:00:32.640 --> 0:00:36.560 those numbers back down? And finally, if Taylor Swift can't 0:00:36.560 --> 0:00:40.000 bring gen Z to the NFL, who can? But we 0:00:40.080 --> 0:00:43.360 begin with the heat. The global temperature continues to rise 0:00:43.640 --> 0:00:47.159 and scientists are beside themselves. Officials from NASA and the 0:00:47.240 --> 0:00:51.199 National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration say this past July was 0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:54.960 the hottest month for the Earth on record. NASA Administrator 0:00:55.000 --> 0:00:56.040 Bill Nelson. 0:00:55.800 --> 0:00:59.560 Certainly is self evident that the Earth is heating up. 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:04.280 And what we find is that July of this year 0:01:05.040 --> 0:01:09.880 the temperatures are the hottest ever on record. 0:01:09.760 --> 0:01:13.000 And last month was the hottest September on record by far. 0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:16.960 This past June the warmest June ever recorded. Yeah, we're 0:01:17.000 --> 0:01:20.319 seeing the trend. Let's talk with Bloomberg opinion columnist Laura Williams, 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:24.440 who covers climate change, and scientists are using some pretty 0:01:24.720 --> 0:01:28.320 unscientific language to describe the temperatures that they're seeing. If 0:01:28.640 --> 0:01:31.039 your column is any indication, Laura, what have you heard? 0:01:32.319 --> 0:01:39.280 Yeah, so we've had dobsmackingly bananas. We've had astounding, staggering 0:01:39.480 --> 0:01:46.200 and nerving, bewildering, flabber dusting, dusting, distrioting, dobsmacking. Scientists have 0:01:46.280 --> 0:01:52.000 been really, really surprised by the kind of the level 0:01:52.040 --> 0:01:55.080 of heat that we saw in September compared to previous records. 0:01:55.360 --> 0:01:58.400 It is a bit alarming that they seem so surprised 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:01.440 by this because they've been calling attention to climate change 0:02:01.480 --> 0:02:05.120 and climate change issues and the effects for years. Why 0:02:05.120 --> 0:02:06.800 did this catch them so off guard? 0:02:07.840 --> 0:02:13.360 Yeah, it's just because it's half a degree celsius higher 0:02:13.400 --> 0:02:16.000 than the previous record in twenty twenty, and so when 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:18.919 we see these records getting broken, they're not usually broken 0:02:19.040 --> 0:02:22.320 by that margin. And so it is a kind of 0:02:23.400 --> 0:02:27.000 market in Greece, and it looks like it could be. 0:02:27.240 --> 0:02:30.000 Some are saying an acceleration in the rate of global 0:02:30.040 --> 0:02:31.840 woman which would be worry. 0:02:32.040 --> 0:02:36.280 Yeah, I wondered was this an outlier, was just this 0:02:36.400 --> 0:02:38.840 is a one time thing. Is there's something that caused 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:42.040 it specifically, or are we seeing an acceleration. It's going 0:02:42.080 --> 0:02:43.959 to just get hotter and hotter and hotter in the 0:02:44.000 --> 0:02:45.040 next few years. 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:49.880 So that's something that scientists are debating. So there are 0:02:50.080 --> 0:02:56.600 two camps of scientists. The first camp and I spoke 0:02:56.680 --> 0:03:01.040 to sociologists and he'd kind of terms these guys accelerationists, 0:03:01.760 --> 0:03:07.960 and they are concerned that this is an acceleration. Basically, 0:03:08.360 --> 0:03:12.520 what we've seen, particularly this year, is there are these 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:17.920 sulfur dioxide emissions which are comes from like crew like 0:03:18.040 --> 0:03:22.800 cruise ships and you know, ships like taking all our 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:26.720 stuff across the oceans, and they've cleaned up their act 0:03:27.040 --> 0:03:31.080 and so we're seeing way fewer aerosols being emitted into 0:03:31.120 --> 0:03:34.480 the atmosphere. So that's a good thing for our health. 0:03:34.800 --> 0:03:38.760 But those aerosols have historically served to mass human induced 0:03:38.760 --> 0:03:43.880 climate change because they reflect the Sun's heats back into space, 0:03:44.040 --> 0:03:46.760 and so the fewer thing fewer of those that we have, 0:03:46.800 --> 0:03:51.840 the more solar radiation reaches the earth surface. The scientists 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:54.880 that think that we've seen an acceleration point to that 0:03:55.560 --> 0:03:59.960 trend of you know, sulfur emissions going down, and point 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:02.880 to the trend of you know, these these huge temperature 0:04:02.920 --> 0:04:05.600 records that we've seen over the past few months and 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:08.720 say that it could be an acceleration. 0:04:10.160 --> 0:04:12.480 Now, I would argue that. 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:18.520 The other team of scientists, the observationists, are right in 0:04:18.560 --> 0:04:21.680 that this is just you know, it's a few data points, 0:04:21.720 --> 0:04:25.719 and there's there's lots of things that could be making this. 0:04:26.160 --> 0:04:29.039 You know, this the Earth a lot warmer right now, 0:04:29.279 --> 0:04:34.440 a lot of temporary things. So of the September that 0:04:34.480 --> 0:04:38.160 we've just seen was one point seventy five degrees celsius 0:04:38.480 --> 0:04:40.200 warmer than pre industrial temperatures. 0:04:40.240 --> 0:04:41.559 Now that's very scary. Number. 0:04:42.480 --> 0:04:45.440 One point two degrees celsius of that we know is 0:04:45.480 --> 0:04:49.799 down to US burning fossil fuels. The remaining zero point 0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:52.760 five degrees celsius or so is due to with a 0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:55.919 combination of different factors, and so it could be aerosols, 0:04:56.320 --> 0:04:58.120 but it should also be the fact that we are 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:01.600 in an l Nino cason, which is a naturally occurring 0:05:01.600 --> 0:05:05.440 climate pattern that warms global temperatures. It should also be that, 0:05:05.600 --> 0:05:09.960 you know, there was this huge underwater volcano which held 0:05:10.160 --> 0:05:12.800 an immense plume of water vapor, which is a greenhouse 0:05:12.800 --> 0:05:16.839 gas into the atmosphere last year, and that would be 0:05:16.920 --> 0:05:19.920 enough to temporarily elevate global temperatures for a few years. 0:05:21.440 --> 0:05:24.200 It would be partly aerosols, and it should partly be 0:05:24.279 --> 0:05:26.640 the fact that we'll see we've got we've had reduced 0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:30.599 ice at the poles this year. So the more dark 0:05:30.680 --> 0:05:34.120 sea that's exposed, the more heat that's absorbed by the water. 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:35.960 Oh, there's a lot there. 0:05:36.720 --> 0:05:37.640 Yeah. 0:05:37.839 --> 0:05:41.440 But no matter which side they're on, whether they believe 0:05:41.520 --> 0:05:44.200 that this is an acceleration or they believe this is 0:05:44.400 --> 0:05:46.800 just par for the course, the observationists, if you will, 0:05:47.440 --> 0:05:49.680 is there a new sense of urgency? 0:05:49.720 --> 0:05:49.920 Now? 0:05:50.760 --> 0:05:52.200 Well, I think that. 0:05:53.640 --> 0:05:56.880 There's always a sense of urgency, and. 0:05:57.720 --> 0:06:02.160 I you know, whether it's an acceleration or not, the 0:06:03.279 --> 0:06:07.480 overwhelming trend is that the Earth is just in warmer 0:06:08.160 --> 0:06:12.000 and that we are still not doing enough to combat 0:06:12.000 --> 0:06:16.200 that warming. And so if it weights people up and 0:06:16.360 --> 0:06:19.040 is a reminder that we actually need to, you know, 0:06:19.480 --> 0:06:23.200 take some severe action to stop this trend, then I 0:06:23.200 --> 0:06:26.080 guess that, yeah, there could be a call for. 0:06:26.040 --> 0:06:27.320 A renewed sense of urgency. 0:06:27.600 --> 0:06:34.360 The urgency was needed all along, but yeah, I suppose 0:06:34.400 --> 0:06:36.160 that this would be a weight of call. 0:06:36.680 --> 0:06:40.000 We are talking with Bloomberg opinion columnist Laura Williams about 0:06:40.000 --> 0:06:44.360 the quote gob smackingly Banana's heat, as scientists describe it, 0:06:44.400 --> 0:06:48.479 and as it's listed in your column on the Bloomberg terminal. Laura, 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:51.320 it was a great read, very interesting to see how 0:06:51.320 --> 0:06:54.120 they are using terms that you might you might hear 0:06:54.160 --> 0:06:57.600 among the laypersons such as myself, you don't usually expect 0:06:57.600 --> 0:07:00.320 to hear from people who study this for a loving 0:07:01.040 --> 0:07:04.360 What do they believe this could mean for the coming 0:07:04.440 --> 0:07:06.520 winter months. Are we going to see a milder than 0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:10.840 usual winter or because it's an extreme, where we going 0:07:10.880 --> 0:07:12.600 to see a colder winter. 0:07:13.120 --> 0:07:15.520 That's a good question, and I guess we'll find out 0:07:15.800 --> 0:07:19.320 when the data comes out, But I think for now, 0:07:19.480 --> 0:07:24.920 October is looking to be warmer than average. And I 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:28.760 would say that with you know the fact that we're 0:07:28.800 --> 0:07:33.040 in an El Nino that tends to make things warmer. 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:35.240 It actually tends to make parts of. 0:07:35.200 --> 0:07:38.240 The world, So I think Europe might be might be 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:46.240 CNA holder slightly tolder winter if their only pattern holds true. 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:50.160 But I certainly wouldn't be surprised if we saw a 0:07:50.240 --> 0:07:53.120 warmer than average October and November. 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:57.480 So there may be some disagreement about what these temperature 0:07:57.520 --> 0:08:00.880 trends are telling us right now among signs, but they 0:08:00.960 --> 0:08:03.360 do agree on one thing, and that there's an issue 0:08:03.360 --> 0:08:06.440 with political will. There isn't enough of it. Where does 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:06.960 that stand? 0:08:07.760 --> 0:08:10.920 Yeah, so you know, I would say that the fissure 0:08:10.960 --> 0:08:16.600 between science and political will is huge. We need to 0:08:16.640 --> 0:08:21.160 be deterbinizing with farmer urgency. So according to the website 0:08:21.200 --> 0:08:23.760 the Climate Actioning Tractor, which takes stock of all of 0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:28.040 the promises and policies of countries around the world, and 0:08:28.080 --> 0:08:30.760 then not a single country in the world is taking 0:08:30.800 --> 0:08:33.480 action that's compatible with limiting warm into one point five 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:38.240 degree celsius above pre industrial temperatures. The UK has rolled 0:08:38.280 --> 0:08:41.679 backs and that zero tardets. Germany's approved bringing toll fired 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:44.520 power plants back in line over the winter. US oil 0:08:44.559 --> 0:08:47.160 production is running at an all time high. It's not 0:08:47.240 --> 0:08:53.400 really how you'd expect country is reacting to climate crisis 0:08:53.400 --> 0:08:54.120 to be acting. 0:08:55.000 --> 0:08:57.760 Is that in part because of the geopolitical climate that 0:08:57.840 --> 0:08:59.720 we are dealing with right now, what's going on in 0:08:59.760 --> 0:09:01.800 uk and now what's going on in the Middle East, 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:04.040 and what it's going to mean for heating fuel being 0:09:04.120 --> 0:09:05.760 shipped out to those areas. 0:09:06.440 --> 0:09:10.080 Yeah, I think, I think definitely the geobilistal you know, 0:09:10.240 --> 0:09:14.080 environment is not helping. And we've also got a you know, 0:09:14.440 --> 0:09:17.960 really high inflation, which is you know, stretching people's wallets, 0:09:18.640 --> 0:09:21.800 and whether we like it or not, we have to 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:25.000 admit that, you know, sometimes net zero action is going 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:28.080 to cost people more in the in the short term. 0:09:28.400 --> 0:09:30.880 In the long term, you'd hope that it would, you know, 0:09:30.920 --> 0:09:35.680 eventually bills should come down. We rolled out renewables enough, 0:09:36.520 --> 0:09:40.120 but certainly in the short term we're feeling in our wallets. 0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:43.120 Have they been able to get any traction with this, 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:46.320 to get the attention of those lawmakers and those leaders 0:09:46.320 --> 0:09:48.640 who would be able to take the lead on this, 0:09:48.920 --> 0:09:51.719 or are they being shouted down, if you will, or 0:09:51.840 --> 0:09:54.360 drowned out by what is going on in the rest 0:09:54.400 --> 0:09:57.880 of the world and the really urgent need in the 0:09:57.920 --> 0:10:00.600 rest of the world for things like heating fuel because 0:10:00.640 --> 0:10:02.720 of what's happening in Ukraine and Israel. 0:10:03.360 --> 0:10:05.760 For sure, I think that at the moment, it definitely 0:10:05.800 --> 0:10:09.440 feels like, you know, the scientists are being drowned out 0:10:09.880 --> 0:10:13.000 just because of the urgency of these other prices. It 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:15.760 will be really interesting to see at COP twenty eight 0:10:15.800 --> 0:10:19.160 in Dubai in December, what kind of happens there, you know, 0:10:19.200 --> 0:10:22.600 whether we're able to kind of come around the table 0:10:22.840 --> 0:10:27.640 and re you know, set our sights on more ambitious 0:10:27.640 --> 0:10:31.280 climate action there and kind of you know, center ourselves 0:10:31.280 --> 0:10:35.440 around that, or whether indeed, you know, the under end 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:41.199 conflicts kind of again makes it another kind of non event, all. 0:10:41.240 --> 0:10:42.920 Right, and we're going to watch it with you. Thank 0:10:42.960 --> 0:10:44.959 you so much, Laura for bringing us up to speed 0:10:44.960 --> 0:10:45.240 on this. 0:10:45.920 --> 0:10:47.000 Thank you very much for having me. 0:10:47.120 --> 0:10:50.440 Larah Williams a Bloomberg Opinion columnist. She covers climate change 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:53.400 and coming up, we're going to continue this climate change conversation. 0:10:53.720 --> 0:10:56.760 We'll talk about what's better for the earth. Using a 0:10:56.840 --> 0:10:59.800 clothesline to dry your clothes or just run the dryer 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:03.320 might surprise you. You're listening to Bloomberg Opinion. 0:11:11.800 --> 0:11:15.599 You're listening to the Bloomberg Opinion podcast. Catch us Saturdays 0:11:15.640 --> 0:11:18.760 at one and seven pm Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com. 0:11:18.840 --> 0:11:21.960 The iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business app, or listen 0:11:22.040 --> 0:11:24.280 on demand wherever you get your podcasts. 0:11:26.040 --> 0:11:29.720 You're listening to Bloomberg Opinion. I'm Amy Morris. Okay, what's 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:33.600 better for the planet running your clothes dryer or hanging 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:37.320 your clothes on a line outside? It might depend. We 0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:42.880 welcome Bloomberg Opinion columnist David Fickling, who covers energy and commodities. David, 0:11:42.880 --> 0:11:45.400 thank you for taking the time with us. Your column 0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:49.559 starts with this intriguing thought when running the dryer maybe 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:51.920 actually be better for the planet. And this is all 0:11:51.960 --> 0:11:55.160 about solar power changing how grids operate bring us up 0:11:55.160 --> 0:11:55.560 to speed. 0:11:56.240 --> 0:11:59.840 Yeah, sure, well, I mean this literally was a dilemma 0:11:59.880 --> 0:12:02.440 that confronted me a few weeks ago on a Saturday 0:12:02.480 --> 0:12:07.080 afternoon when I'd just done a load of laundry and 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:09.720 it was a lovely day for putting laundry out on 0:12:09.720 --> 0:12:12.280 the line. It was a beautiful, bright, sunny spring day. 0:12:12.320 --> 0:12:14.800 I'm in Sydney, of course, so it's spring here at 0:12:14.840 --> 0:12:19.880 the moment. But then I am someone who regularly writes 0:12:19.880 --> 0:12:22.640 about energy, and so a thought occurred to me, which is, 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:26.800 if the weather is so good for the sun drying 0:12:26.840 --> 0:12:29.400 clothes on the line. It's probably also very good for 0:12:29.760 --> 0:12:35.760 powering solar panels, and Australia is one of the most 0:12:35.840 --> 0:12:43.440 heavily solar rooftop solar dense places in the world. You know, 0:12:43.960 --> 0:12:46.800 per capital, we have more solar panels than any other country. 0:12:47.520 --> 0:12:49.240 And so of course what this means is, in the 0:12:49.280 --> 0:12:51.880 same weather conditions, you're actually going to have a surge 0:12:52.080 --> 0:12:55.240 of solar generation hitting the grid, which is possibly going 0:12:55.280 --> 0:12:59.000 to be too much for the grid. I had a 0:12:59.040 --> 0:13:02.200 look at the website of the grid operator and it 0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:04.880 turned out that at that point the price of electricity 0:13:04.920 --> 0:13:08.880 wholesale in the market was about minus seventy Australian dollars 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:14.280 about minus fifty US dollars per per meguar tower. So 0:13:14.679 --> 0:13:17.400 it was a negative price there was. You know, normally, 0:13:17.440 --> 0:13:21.640 obviously you have to pay for electricity, but this was 0:13:21.679 --> 0:13:24.360 the opposite because there was so much solar hit hitting 0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:28.440 the grid at this point that they were essentially the 0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:33.240 market was prepared to pay people like me. Of course, 0:13:33.240 --> 0:13:34.920 I was not actually going to get any money from 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:36.800 this because of the way bills are structured, but it 0:13:37.160 --> 0:13:40.280 was prepared to pay users to take the electricity off 0:13:40.280 --> 0:13:45.120 their hands. So this completely changes the calculus of it, 0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:47.640 because if you want to have strong grids, and if 0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:50.880 you want to have also a you know, a financially 0:13:51.160 --> 0:13:56.800 viable renewables sector paying into the grid, you actually you 0:13:56.840 --> 0:13:59.199 want to be running the dryer at the middle the 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:00.560 middle of the day. You don't want to be putting 0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:02.320 the stuff on the line because you actually want these 0:14:02.559 --> 0:14:04.720 imbalances in the grid to sort themselves out. 0:14:05.480 --> 0:14:09.000 So the balance of power then in the most hyper 0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:14.760 local energy infrastructure within your own home hyper local, that's 0:14:14.800 --> 0:14:16.480 got to be a challenge because you have to pay 0:14:16.480 --> 0:14:18.480 attention to that. You have to pay attention to how 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:19.520 much is hitting the grid. 0:14:20.200 --> 0:14:22.480 I mean, I should say hardly anyone is paying attention 0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:26.680 to this, and there's several reasons for that. I've actually 0:14:27.320 --> 0:14:29.720 I used to have pounds on my roof at my 0:14:29.960 --> 0:14:32.880 current place. I only moved in about nine months ago, 0:14:32.960 --> 0:14:34.880 so I don't actually have that at the moment, So 0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:38.520 it doesn't make any difference to my electricity costs. I 0:14:38.560 --> 0:14:41.960 pay the same tariff regardless of the time of day. 0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:45.880 That makes no difference at all. In addition, in almost 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:49.120 every market that the wholesale price of electricity does not 0:14:49.160 --> 0:14:52.480 reflect the retail price of electricity, and the only extent 0:14:52.520 --> 0:14:54.840 to which it does is actually something that in a 0:14:54.880 --> 0:14:58.600 lot of markets is very anachronistic. I can get a 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:03.680 I can get a an electricity tariff whereby it cost 0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:06.640 me less to run appliances at night. I get a 0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:09.320 cheap off peak tariff at night, and I'll get a 0:15:10.080 --> 0:15:12.560 on peak tariff, particularly you know, at the peak in 0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:15.880 the evening, it'll be the highest. Now, it's probably right 0:15:15.880 --> 0:15:18.640 that it's highest in the evening, but actually night is 0:15:18.680 --> 0:15:22.400 not really a time when you want to be making 0:15:22.440 --> 0:15:26.000 it cheaper to get electricity, because in places like Australia 0:15:26.080 --> 0:15:29.360 and other places. You know, California is actually the first 0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:31.760 market that really saw this, and we've seen it in 0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:35.000 Germany and other places as well. It's the middle of 0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:37.880 the day when the sun is shining most brightly and 0:15:37.960 --> 0:15:41.680 all those cellar panels are just pumping out electricity. That's 0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:44.000 actually the time when you really need to fix some 0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:45.840 of these imbalances that are happening in the grid. 0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:50.280 We are talking to Bloomberg Opinion columnist David Fickling about 0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:53.680 how to manage power from the solar grid and how 0:15:53.760 --> 0:15:58.600 sometimes running the clothes dryer could be good for the planet. Okay, 0:15:58.680 --> 0:16:01.120 So David, would it be the up to the consumer 0:16:01.200 --> 0:16:04.640 to adjust that imbalance that you were describing, or is 0:16:04.680 --> 0:16:07.160 this just one of the growing pains that we're finding 0:16:07.320 --> 0:16:11.360 as more places are converting to more renewable sources of energy. 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:14.040 Is this this part of it, it's not going to 0:16:14.080 --> 0:16:16.440 be really for the consumer to sort of out. It's 0:16:16.440 --> 0:16:18.680 a hard thing for the consumers. Sort of the easiest 0:16:18.680 --> 0:16:21.720 way you can you can fix it as a consumer, 0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:25.320 but this will only apply to fairly affluent consumers. Certainly 0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:29.640 people in Australia and California and Germany would apply. Is 0:16:29.680 --> 0:16:32.280 of course, to attach a solar to a battery to 0:16:32.280 --> 0:16:37.440 your solar system. The time the toughest time, well, the 0:16:37.480 --> 0:16:39.080 two to toughest times for grids at the moment, or 0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:40.360 of course, the middle of the day, which we were 0:16:40.360 --> 0:16:43.200 talking about, and the evening the sun goes down. Everyone 0:16:43.280 --> 0:16:48.960 gets home, they switch on appliances, air conditioning, televisions, you know, 0:16:50.520 --> 0:16:52.840 or manner of things, and of course the solar that 0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:54.640 was there in the middle of the day is no 0:16:54.720 --> 0:16:59.560 longer there within your own home home solars, you know, 0:16:59.720 --> 0:17:02.240 home system. If you attach a battery to it you 0:17:02.320 --> 0:17:03.800 can be charging it in the middle of the day 0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:06.120 and discharging it in the evening, and that that potentially 0:17:06.160 --> 0:17:11.320 works quite well. But across the you know, across grids 0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:14.480 as a whole, things much more ambitious need to be 0:17:14.520 --> 0:17:17.040 done than that, and it's and it's a significant problem. 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:20.199 You know, we're seeing things like here in Australia, for instance, 0:17:20.240 --> 0:17:24.280 there is a very big pumped pumped hydro project being 0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:27.480 built at the moment, which essentially what happens is when 0:17:27.520 --> 0:17:29.320 there is too much electricity in the middle of the day, 0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:32.200 a load of water is pumped uphill to a lake 0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:36.480 high up on a mountain just sort of southwest of Sydney, 0:17:37.760 --> 0:17:40.879 and then during the evening, when all that electricity is needed, 0:17:41.320 --> 0:17:44.280 then the water goes down through turbines like a standard 0:17:44.359 --> 0:17:46.600 hydroectionri dam and it will do this day after day. 0:17:46.840 --> 0:17:49.240 And there are lots of places, I think in California 0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:51.240 the same thing applies. There are lots of places where 0:17:51.280 --> 0:17:55.440 pump hydro is being used. And of course batteries as 0:17:55.440 --> 0:17:59.160 well for dispatchable power will be you know, utility scale 0:17:59.160 --> 0:18:01.200 batteries will be more active. But I think one of 0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:04.199 the problems that we're facing over the coming years. Is 0:18:04.240 --> 0:18:09.240 that the speed with which households are installing are installing 0:18:09.240 --> 0:18:13.560 solar power is faster than the sort of utility scale 0:18:13.800 --> 0:18:17.120 storage solutions can catch up. And dispatchable power, of course, 0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:19.800 dispatchable power, by which I mean you can switch on 0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:22.080 and off, you know, with the flick of a switch, 0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:24.760 which of course is not the case with any renewable power, 0:18:25.680 --> 0:18:28.120 also not really the case with is not the case 0:18:28.119 --> 0:18:33.679 with nuclear either. With dispatchable power, you know, most of 0:18:33.720 --> 0:18:36.600 it is fossil fossil fired, and that's a real problem 0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:38.400 because of course we want to get rid of fossil 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:41.120 fossil fire electricity right now. 0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:43.320 And so it sounds like the two big things that 0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:47.960 need to be resolved would be managing the storage issue, 0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:51.200 the battery, making sure that those can be not only 0:18:51.400 --> 0:18:56.560 a portable but easy to acquire and quickly charged. And 0:18:57.200 --> 0:18:58.480 the infrastructure as a whole. 0:18:58.920 --> 0:18:59.200 Yeah. 0:18:59.720 --> 0:19:02.320 I mean one other solution, of course, which is again 0:19:02.359 --> 0:19:04.800 a lot of this depends on having the right market 0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:08.440 settings in place, and regulators I think in many ways 0:19:08.480 --> 0:19:10.879 have been somewhat slow to catch up on some of 0:19:10.920 --> 0:19:14.479 these things because it is all changing so very fast. 0:19:15.600 --> 0:19:17.080 But of course one thing to bear in mind is 0:19:17.080 --> 0:19:23.040 is we're seeing surging cells of electric vehicles. Electric vehicles 0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:25.080 another thing that should be sucking up power in the 0:19:25.080 --> 0:19:27.960 middle of the day and potentially could be used to 0:19:28.119 --> 0:19:30.760 discharge electricity in the evening, but at the moment in 0:19:30.800 --> 0:19:34.280 most markets there is very little regulation that would allow 0:19:34.280 --> 0:19:37.320 people to do that, you know, so instead we're seeing 0:19:37.359 --> 0:19:40.119 things like in South Australia, one of the states in 0:19:40.119 --> 0:19:45.760 Australia which has a particularly high volume of solar. Basically, 0:19:45.800 --> 0:19:50.879 the grid operator can switch off rooftop solar panels when 0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:54.080 there is too much of it, which is something that's 0:19:54.080 --> 0:19:57.000 possibly necessary to stop to stop stress on the grid. 0:19:57.200 --> 0:19:59.000 But ideally you want to find ways to use it. 0:19:59.040 --> 0:20:02.399 You don't want to be reducing the amount of zero 0:20:02.440 --> 0:20:05.480 carbon power that you're producing. You want to be using 0:20:05.480 --> 0:20:08.239 it more productively. So we're seeing a lot of these 0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:09.399 teething pains at the moment. 0:20:09.840 --> 0:20:12.119 David, this is just fascinating. Thank you for taking the 0:20:12.160 --> 0:20:13.040 time with us today. 0:20:13.960 --> 0:20:15.359 No, it's lovely to talk. 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:20.120 Bloomberg Opinion columnist David Fickleing covers energy and commodities. Don't 0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:23.600 forget We're available as a podcast on Apple, Spotify or 0:20:23.640 --> 0:20:27.000 your favorite podcast platform. This is Bloomberg Opinion. 0:20:36.280 --> 0:20:40.280 You're listening to the Bloomberg Opinion podcast counts Saturdays at 0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:43.399 one in seven pm Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com, the 0:20:43.480 --> 0:20:46.600 iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business App, or listen on 0:20:46.680 --> 0:20:48.639 demand wherever you get your podcasts. 0:20:50.920 --> 0:20:54.040 This is Bloomberg Opinion. I may you Morris Now. Since 0:20:54.080 --> 0:20:57.200 the beginning of the pandemic, traffic depths in the US 0:20:57.320 --> 0:21:00.359 have risen sharply, and during the high ight of the 0:21:00.400 --> 0:21:05.480 pandemic shutdown, speeding related accidents actually increased. At the time, 0:21:05.560 --> 0:21:10.240 Pamela Fisher of the Governor's Highway Safety Association explained, why. 0:21:10.480 --> 0:21:13.080 Fewer cars on the road, you should have fewer crashes. 0:21:13.119 --> 0:21:15.720 But the behaviors that were happening out there. People were 0:21:15.720 --> 0:21:19.600 seeing open highway, open roadways, local roads as well, not 0:21:19.760 --> 0:21:22.520 just on highways, and they were driving at really crazy 0:21:22.520 --> 0:21:25.480 speeds and engaging in other unsafe behaviors. 0:21:25.760 --> 0:21:29.199 Well, it hasn't improved much since then. Preliminary numbers from 0:21:29.240 --> 0:21:32.720 the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention indicate forty six 0:21:33.320 --> 0:21:37.160 twenty people died in accidents involving motor vehicles in twenty 0:21:37.200 --> 0:21:40.120 twenty two. That's down just a bit from twenty twenty one, 0:21:40.160 --> 0:21:43.760 but still eighteen percent more than in twenty nineteen. Let's 0:21:43.760 --> 0:21:47.280 look at what's happening. Bloomberg opinion columnist Justin Fox covers 0:21:47.320 --> 0:21:51.320 Business and joins me, Now, Justin, you have voluminous amounts 0:21:51.320 --> 0:21:54.360 of data and some really nifty helpful charts to kind 0:21:54.359 --> 0:21:56.880 of guide us as to why all of this is happening. 0:21:57.359 --> 0:21:59.600 And you were even able to use this information to 0:21:59.640 --> 0:22:02.080 a limit. They some of the candidates for what is 0:22:02.240 --> 0:22:04.920 causing this? But what is the problem? 0:22:05.640 --> 0:22:08.480 Well, yeah, I mean when you bring this up that 0:22:09.160 --> 0:22:11.840 traffic fatalities are up in the US, and there's been 0:22:11.840 --> 0:22:15.120 a big jump since twenty nineteen, but they'd already started 0:22:15.560 --> 0:22:19.719 rising around I don't know, twenty fifteen or so. And 0:22:19.800 --> 0:22:22.360 a lot of times people will bring up smartphones or 0:22:23.119 --> 0:22:24.000 just the pandemic. 0:22:24.480 --> 0:22:25.000 But if you. 0:22:25.000 --> 0:22:28.879 Compare the US to other rich countries, I made a 0:22:28.960 --> 0:22:32.200 chart of the US, France, Germany, Canada, Australia and the UK. 0:22:33.200 --> 0:22:36.600 None of the rest of them have had this stall 0:22:36.760 --> 0:22:39.640 in the improvement in traffic fatalities like the US has. 0:22:39.880 --> 0:22:42.760 There In all those countries, they've kept going down. In 0:22:42.800 --> 0:22:45.600 the US, they stopped going down about a decade ago, 0:22:46.119 --> 0:22:51.520 and they've really gone up significantly over the past few years. So, okay, 0:22:51.560 --> 0:22:55.440 what's different about the US from these places? And one 0:22:55.760 --> 0:22:58.800 thing that's been brought up is we have these gigantic 0:22:59.520 --> 0:23:03.680 pickup trucks and SUVs that are you know, really safe 0:23:03.720 --> 0:23:05.639