Speaker 1: My own lived experience, was I prefer to the point
Speaker 1: where I jeopardize my career. Is I prefer the cannabis
Speaker 1: because it felt more like I was taking care of
Speaker 1: myself than the pills, where I felt more like I
Speaker 1: was masking stuff.
Speaker 2: Right, Wow, that's real.
Speaker 3: Lava for Good and Stand Together Music present The War
Speaker 3: on Drugs Podcast Season two. This season, we're diving deeper
Speaker 3: into the real stories behind the War on Drugs, its impact,
Speaker 3: its failures, and the people offering a better path forward.
Speaker 3: Today on the show, two time All American Texas Longhorn
Speaker 3: and nineteen ninety eight Heisman Trophy winner, two thousand and
Speaker 3: two NFL League Leader in rushing, All Pro and Pro
Speaker 3: Bowl selectee for the Miami Dolphins, and longtime cannabis advocate
Speaker 3: mister Ricky Williams.
Speaker 4: All Right, welcome to season two of The War on Drugs.
Speaker 5: Yes, yes, we're talking to real people. We get to
Speaker 5: hear their real stories about how they've been impacted by
Speaker 5: the world.
Speaker 2: And you know, we're fighting it. We're working the world.
Speaker 5: It's still waged, it's going, but we're still fighting a
Speaker 5: good fight.
Speaker 3: We're gonna kick it off with one that I know
Speaker 3: we were both really excited to talk to. Oh yeah,
Speaker 3: Ricky Williams, former Texas running back. Yes, uh NFL running back.
Speaker 3: I'm a big Ravens fan. He played with the Ravens
Speaker 3: for a little bit, Saints, all these other teams, and
Speaker 3: I remember like those interviews that he was doing because
Speaker 3: there was so much pressure like on people don't know
Speaker 3: the Saints. Essentially New Orleans Saints traded like their entire
Speaker 3: draft to move up to get this guy.
Speaker 2: He was the only draft pick.
Speaker 4: Like it was there, literally their only draft traded, and
Speaker 4: so everything was on like the team was I don't
Speaker 4: even know.
Speaker 3: They won maybe like two games of a year before
Speaker 3: they stunk, and this was like the savior and the
Speaker 3: media was just all around him and it was not
Speaker 3: used to have interviews like his helmet on Advisor and
Speaker 3: like so you could and people that you know, it's
Speaker 3: just like, oh look at look at crazy guy.
Speaker 2: He doesn't like people.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you look at those old interviews. They weren't that
Speaker 4: from that long ago.
Speaker 3: Like the lack of knowledge like it actually helps sometimes
Speaker 3: and know like we are moving in a good direction
Speaker 3: kind of seeing like how people talked about him back then,
Speaker 3: like he would not be talked about that way now right,
Speaker 3: someone was saying, then there'd be a bunch of people
Speaker 3: being like, obviously this is someone dealing with either is
Speaker 3: you know, like we are the problem. You know, there
Speaker 3: would be like something back and forth. Then it was
Speaker 3: just like look at this loopy yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I don't know if this is where it
Speaker 5: came from, but it definitely is the sentiment from the
Speaker 5: sports journalists when you look at like Steven A. Smith,
Speaker 5: stay off the weed, like and it's like, man, you
Speaker 5: need some weed. Yeah, because you're yelling this early in
Speaker 5: the morning, like you wake up this loud, Like my
Speaker 5: son wakes up that loud, and it is terrible.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, it's it's crazy the world. You know,
Speaker 3: it's twenty years ago about that he was. And you
Speaker 3: know back then the NFL, you could be suspended for
Speaker 3: cannabis for a long time.
Speaker 2: Super strict, yeah they.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it was arbitrary the way that's testing now
Speaker 3: that we know where you have a certain amount in
Speaker 3: your system, and it was and we as we know,
Speaker 3: like it's they try to almost do it as like
Speaker 3: other drugs that are water soluble, like you know.
Speaker 4: Like cocaine or something like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, in there, but you have cannabis in your system
Speaker 3: or in your urine and test positive, you know, months after,
Speaker 3: And so they're doing it on these arbitrary notions. I
Speaker 3: know they've laxed it obviously. Moving forward, they've made changes
Speaker 3: where they don't suspend anymore, they required you know, more violations.
Speaker 5: Or they reduce the amount that could be in your
Speaker 5: system right exactly drastically, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4: Or they increase the amount. Yeah yeah, they increase the amount.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 5: And really the reason that a lot of these things
Speaker 5: have been changed is partly because of you know, his advocacy.
Speaker 5: And I mean I look back in two thousand and
Speaker 5: four and like I said, I just know the story
Speaker 5: from through the media and how they painted it, and
Speaker 5: it wasn't really social media like it is, so he
Speaker 5: could never really come out and kind of tell his story.
Speaker 5: You see them on one interview here, our interview here,
Speaker 5: and you can just gather what you can from a
Speaker 5: ten minute interview. But to actually be able to say, hey,
Speaker 5: this is what happened, this is what I was doing,
Speaker 5: this is why I was doing it, It's a whole
Speaker 5: different thing. And I think a lot of people didn't
Speaker 5: have that as an outlet, and I think that's the
Speaker 5: difference now that people can get their story, you know, out.
Speaker 4: There with that Ricky Williams, here's the interview.
Speaker 2: What's going on, man? Thank you for having me. Man.
Speaker 5: It's beautiful out here, beautiful home, beautiful area. I don't
Speaker 5: want to tell anybody where you are right now because
Speaker 5: we want to keep it as peaceful as possible.
Speaker 2: We do not want people out here. Man, it's too peaceful. Man.
Speaker 5: Great to have you here. Heisman Trophy winner, pro Bowler
Speaker 5: advocate for the people, Ricky Williams, Glad to have you here, Man,
Speaker 5: good to be here. Yes, yes, I guess I got
Speaker 5: to hear it from you because we hear your story,
Speaker 5: especially somebody that was as prolific as you were in
Speaker 5: the sport. We hear their narration, their story of what happened.
Speaker 5: But can I get at least part of that from you?
Speaker 5: From San Diego to Texas to New Orleans to where
Speaker 5: we're at now. Yeah, you give us the the Ricky
Speaker 5: Williams story in his own words.
Speaker 6: Okay.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I grew up and I grew up in
Speaker 1: San Diego, raised by a single mom. As a kid,
Speaker 1: young kid, I had a dream that I would be
Speaker 1: a professional athlete. But at the time, I thought it
Speaker 1: would be a professional baseball player. Okay, big big Padres fan.
Speaker 1: Played Little League, and then when I got to eighth grade,
Speaker 1: I started playing football for the first time, and after
Speaker 1: a couple of years, I was really good. So I
Speaker 1: was really good at baseball football. Got to high school,
Speaker 1: and I'm a big Bo Jackson fan, So my dream was.
Speaker 6: To play baseball and Footballah.
Speaker 1: I got drafted by the Phillies, got a chance to
Speaker 1: play some baseball, and I got a scholarship to go
Speaker 1: to the University of Texas to play football. At the time,
Speaker 1: I thought I would just play college football and then
Speaker 1: when I was done, I would go be a professional
Speaker 1: baseball player. But I had so much success on the
Speaker 1: football field and not enough success on the baseball diamond
Speaker 1: that it kind of got flipped and I gave up baseball.
Speaker 6: And I stuck with football.
Speaker 1: Then I went to the got drafted the big all
Speaker 1: the trade from the Saints and Mike dickerd traded everything
Speaker 1: and the next year's first round fish everybody you're drafted. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was only a couple of free agents, but I
Speaker 1: was the.
Speaker 6: Only draft pick. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then I had had three so so years in
Speaker 1: New Orleans, had a lot of injuries. Then I got
Speaker 1: traded in Miami, and that first year in Miami really
Speaker 1: took off, led the NFL and Russian Pro Bowl, All Pro,
Speaker 1: all that good stuff. And then I came back for
Speaker 1: my second year in Miami, and to me, it kind
Speaker 1: of started before then. But really the story started that
Speaker 1: second year, my second year in Miami, because what occurred
Speaker 1: in the first year of Miami is I failed a
Speaker 1: drug test and I was put in the NFL's drug program.
Speaker 5: But let me, I'm sorry not to cut you off,
Speaker 5: but you failed to drug test after putting up ridiculous numbers.
Speaker 1: It was right before I put up the right before,
Speaker 1: right before I okay, okay, the timing of it was
Speaker 1: was interesting. So now that's the kind of the football
Speaker 1: story up to a certain point. Now I'm going to
Speaker 1: tell more of the cannabis side of the store. So,
Speaker 1: growing up, my stepdad was a rosta and so and
Speaker 1: I was a huge, huge Bob Marley fan. So my
Speaker 1: first my first relationship with cannabis was not as a consumer.
Speaker 6: It was just appreciating two.
Speaker 1: Wise men who I respected who used cannabis.
Speaker 6: First book I ever read front to back.
Speaker 1: Was Bob Martley's biography, so I was like in it.
Speaker 1: But because I was a professional, I mean because I
Speaker 1: wanted to be a professional athlete and I was AH
Speaker 1: and I grew up in the eighties.
Speaker 6: Just say no, they didn't. They didn't mix. They didn't
Speaker 6: mix in my in my head. And also I grew
Speaker 6: up in San Diego, so it was it was all around.
Speaker 6: It was all around.
Speaker 1: And I had a couple of friends that smoke, So
Speaker 1: I probably smoked three or four times before I left
Speaker 1: high school.
Speaker 6: That's it.
Speaker 1: I get to college and I started noticing that sometimes
Speaker 1: on Fridays the guys would go to my to sean
Speaker 1: the other running back storm room and shoot dice and
Speaker 1: pass a blown around. And so I was just trying
Speaker 1: to be cool with the upperclassmates. I you know, mix
Speaker 1: it up with them. But again, maybe ten times. And
Speaker 1: then I get to my senior year, my senior year
Speaker 1: in college, and I came back from my senior year
Speaker 1: because I wanted to win the Heisman Trophy.
Speaker 6: And the season started off kind of bumpy, you know.
Speaker 1: I had a couple of rough games, broke up with
Speaker 1: my girl, and I just was in a really bad place,
Speaker 1: like why did I come back?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 6: I was like, lo.
Speaker 1: My roommate was a smoker, so he was like, you
Speaker 1: just need to chill, and he slid his bond over
Speaker 1: to me. I remember, I took a hit, coughed a little bit,
Speaker 1: and I went upstairs. I was laying on the laying
Speaker 1: on the bed, looking up and I noticed it was
Speaker 1: the first time in weeks that I wasn't obsessing about
Speaker 1: all the things that were going wrong. And then that
Speaker 1: that that moment of clarity, I started to look to
Speaker 1: the future and think about things getting better. That was
Speaker 1: just one night, go to sleep, wake up the next morning,
Speaker 1: and go on with my with my week.
Speaker 6: The next two weeks of the season, I had back
Speaker 6: to back.
Speaker 1: Three hundred yard games, rushing three hundred yard games back
Speaker 1: to back, and after that, I was like, Okay, there's
Speaker 1: something there's something here, right, there's something here.
Speaker 6: I'm not I'm not all in yet, but I can't.
Speaker 1: Say that this is a bad thing because it just
Speaker 1: helped me like get out of a phone right and
Speaker 1: kind of change change to my season around. So like
Speaker 1: when the Heisman Trophy, fast forward, go through a bunch
Speaker 1: of the draft stuff, and during the draft prep, I
Speaker 1: moved back to San Diego and had a little money,
Speaker 1: you know, so I bought my first ounce.
Speaker 6: I remember about my first out.
Speaker 2: And this is this is you you you're this is.
Speaker 6: Right after my senior before the draft.
Speaker 2: So it's never like.
Speaker 5: You was just a dude just smoking before every game
Speaker 5: or it.
Speaker 1: Was never it was never that, but but it was
Speaker 1: like a relationship was developing, you know, a relationship was developing.
Speaker 1: So I had a little free time. I was training
Speaker 1: and I just smoke a little bit to relax. But
Speaker 1: I didn't have a real relationship at this point. I
Speaker 1: just was messing around and I had some free free time.
Speaker 1: I heard somebody say cannabis is synonymous with freedom, you know,
Speaker 1: and I think because of the war on drugs. I
Speaker 1: don't think it always has to be this way, but
Speaker 1: I think because of the past and the war on drugs,
Speaker 1: it kind of is right. We're either, you know, some
Speaker 1: because some of my white friends, right, they had enough
Speaker 1: money that if they got a little they got in
Speaker 1: a little bit of trouble, nothing happened. So of us
Speaker 1: if we got you know, we got put over and
Speaker 1: we got a roach in the car.
Speaker 6: We're in the system.
Speaker 1: So so since then I got a little money, I
Speaker 1: got help. I can figure out if I get caught
Speaker 1: with this little bit, so I had a little bit
Speaker 1: of freedom. Then I get drafted to New Orleans and
Speaker 1: I kind of put it aside because now I got
Speaker 1: to focus on football. So go through my rookie year,
Speaker 1: and my rookie year is a disaster. I mean just
Speaker 1: mainly because of injuries. I just was hurt the whole year.
Speaker 1: Second year, I trained really hard. I come back killing
Speaker 1: it in week ten and I break my ankle.
Speaker 6: Literally.
Speaker 1: I broke my ankle on my thousandth yard. If you
Speaker 1: look in the stats, you see I got a thousand
Speaker 1: yards my second year in New Orleans just because it
Speaker 1: was my ankle.
Speaker 6: Snap. And something in me snapped at that moment because.
Speaker 1: I realized I put all, like all my heart and
Speaker 1: so into this game and it can just be taken away.
Speaker 6: Literally like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so I thought, okay, I need to start
Speaker 1: working on a plan. B you know what am I
Speaker 1: going to do other than football? Because I can't trust
Speaker 1: this and I wasn't playing and I was hurt. That's
Speaker 1: when I really started smoking, you know, And part of
Speaker 1: it was you know, my body was healing, but most
Speaker 1: of it was trying to get my mind right because
Speaker 1: you know, as an adult, all my identity had been
Speaker 1: put in to being a football player, and I wasn't
Speaker 1: so attached to that anymore because I couldn't trust it,
Speaker 1: and so I needed something to like over clear my
Speaker 1: mind and try to figure things out. And that's when
Speaker 1: I noticed myself smoking more so. About a year later,
Speaker 1: I get traded to Miami, and I was in a
Speaker 1: sweet spot right. It was kind of like back to
Speaker 1: when I was in college where I was working on
Speaker 1: putting the pass behind me. I had a new start
Speaker 1: in Miami, and I was just thinking of like envisioning
Speaker 1: what the season is going to be like.
Speaker 6: So it's right.
Speaker 1: Before it's right before the season starts, and I come
Speaker 1: to work and there's a little like thing on my.
Speaker 6: Locker that says you're being tested today.
Speaker 1: I was like what Because NFL back then, NFL tested
Speaker 1: only one time a year, but they had a big window,
Speaker 1: big window when they can test, but it was only
Speaker 1: one test when I was in New Orleans. That one
Speaker 1: test was in training camp, and I thought when I
Speaker 1: got to Miami that the test would be in training camp,
Speaker 1: but it wasn't it was in the off season, so
Speaker 1: that's when they got me. But again a couple of
Speaker 1: times a week. But I wasn't like blowing before games
Speaker 1: or anything. So I got I get popped, and then
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, well they got me, so I'll just
Speaker 1: stop smoking. That That was my attitude that at that
Speaker 1: point it's nothing but the first test. They just put
Speaker 1: you in the program. And so when you're not in
Speaker 1: the program, that test one annual test. When you are
Speaker 1: in the program nine times a month, you get tested
Speaker 1: nine times a month, and if you pop, then you
Speaker 1: get a fine, and then if you pop again you
Speaker 1: get the you get four.
Speaker 6: Game suspension, and then you get a year suspension.
Speaker 1: So I was I was just on the map where
Speaker 1: I was getting tested nine times a month, and I
Speaker 1: was like, it's fine, and they make you talk.
Speaker 6: To the therapist once a week.
Speaker 1: So I was like, you know, I can't hurt to
Speaker 1: have someone to talk to, and I don't you know,
Speaker 1: I'm good not smoking.
Speaker 6: About four game in the season, I was like, I
Speaker 6: can't do this.
Speaker 1: If I smoking, you are to put your body on
Speaker 1: the line. After I started smoking, and then I tried
Speaker 1: to stop. I was like, I ain't going back to
Speaker 1: the farm. I was like, I'm not going back to
Speaker 1: that life. So then it was like, okay, how do
Speaker 1: I keep smoking and pass the tests?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 6: And then it took me.
Speaker 1: A little while to figure it out, but I figured
Speaker 1: out how to how to make it through with passing
Speaker 1: the test. Had a little system, so I make it in.
Speaker 1: The drug program is two years. You got to make
Speaker 1: it through two seasons and then you're out of the program. Okay,
Speaker 1: So found my little system. Made it through the first year,
Speaker 1: good Pro Bowl, all that good stuff. You know, nobody knows, right,
Speaker 1: nobody knows, but I'm good that next year I come
Speaker 1: back again. That's back to where we were. My second
Speaker 1: year in Miami, that's when everything kind of changed. So
Speaker 1: so my second year in Miami, I was thinking it's
Speaker 1: time for me to break the two thousand yeard rushing
Speaker 1: mark and like put my name on a map. I
Speaker 1: was like, this is it, you know, kind of all
Speaker 1: my eggs back in the basket.
Speaker 6: I said, this is it. And it just didn't work
Speaker 6: out that way.
Speaker 1: The Dolphins didn't get a quarterback, and they just kept
Speaker 1: giving me the ball, giving me the ball, giving me
Speaker 1: the ball and my body was beat up. And I
Speaker 1: remember we played the Eagles on it was Monday night.
Speaker 6: I played the Eagles.
Speaker 1: And we lost that game and we were at a
Speaker 1: playoff contention, and I was hurt, and I remember I
Speaker 1: smoked that night. I went to bed and the dude
Speaker 1: was coming to drug test me at six in the morning,
Speaker 1: So set my alarm.
Speaker 6: I had my little system. I drink my little.
Speaker 1: Drink, so my urine clear for five hours. Okay, so
Speaker 1: I wake up early.
Speaker 6: I was that late.
Speaker 1: I woke up early, drank my drink, and then I
Speaker 1: fell asleep because part of the system is you got
Speaker 1: to drink, to drink twice and then you're good. But
Speaker 1: I fell asleep and I woke up when he knocked
Speaker 1: on the door, and I was like, damn.
Speaker 6: I was like, I'll probably be fine. Pissed.
Speaker 1: Got a letter of the next week that I fell
Speaker 1: a drug test. So now it's the second drug the
Speaker 1: second failed test. And the big thing about the second
Speaker 1: failed test is they find you. And the biggest thing
Speaker 1: about the fine as they take it out of your check,
Speaker 1: which means the team has to know that you failed
Speaker 1: a drug test.
Speaker 5: Okay, Okay, So this is the NFL. It's not even
Speaker 5: the team.
Speaker 1: It's not even the team. So the idea some players
Speaker 1: don't care, some players do. I did at the moment,
Speaker 1: so nobody knew I was in the drug program.
Speaker 6: Nobody.
Speaker 1: The NFL does a decent job of keeping it confidential,
Speaker 1: so the team didn't know. But after that second test,
Speaker 1: the public doesn't know, but the team knows, you know.
Speaker 1: And it feels silly to say it now. But in
Speaker 1: that time, like the team knowing that I smoked, it
Speaker 1: was like, you can relate to this. It was like
Speaker 1: they got something on me. Now you know they got something.
Speaker 2: This is going to be what they point.
Speaker 1: To exactly exactly when I go for a renegotiation to
Speaker 1: get paid, right, they got they got something on me.
Speaker 1: So I was like okay, So I kind of pushed
Speaker 1: through that. And then something happened where it leaked to
Speaker 1: the public that I failed a drug test, and that
Speaker 1: was something. Again, it feels silly saying it now.
Speaker 6: That's something.
Speaker 1: I don't think I was ready four right, it's one
Speaker 1: thing the team knows and they're going to keep it
Speaker 1: on the low. But now the public knows, you know,
Speaker 1: and I not that my image was one hundred percent pure.
Speaker 1: But at least back in two thousand and four, I
Speaker 1: felt like, you know, it would tarnish my image.
Speaker 5: I mean, I think most athletes at that point would
Speaker 5: think that men four.
Speaker 1: So I was kind of bent out of shape. And
Speaker 1: at the same time, I was thinking, like, this is
Speaker 1: a lot. You know, this is a lot.
Speaker 2: And so.
Speaker 1: When I fell another drug test and it was going
Speaker 1: to be a four game suspension, I just said I'm out.
Speaker 1: I said I'm good. I said it's time for me
Speaker 1: to do something else. Anyway, I think the significant thing
Speaker 1: about that moment is before then I didn't consider cannabis
Speaker 1: is being medicinal, right, there was, at least in the
Speaker 1: football world, there was nobody having that conversation, nobody talking
Speaker 1: about it like that. So I thought I just was
Speaker 1: smoking because that's what we do. But when I had
Speaker 1: to stop while doing in the football season, I realized,
Speaker 1: I'm not doing this just for fun. I'm doing this
Speaker 1: because it helps, right. It helps my body, it helps
Speaker 1: my mind. It helped me feel good about getting up
Speaker 1: in the morning and doing this and doing this again.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: And also I noticed that when I started smoking more
Speaker 1: that I stopped taking the pills that they gave me
Speaker 1: less and pills that they were giving me. They're giving
Speaker 1: me Pax for my social anxiety, and they were giving
Speaker 1: me intocend.
Speaker 6: It's an insight, like an anti inflammatory.
Speaker 1: And the guys would joke, It's like it's funny because
Speaker 1: if you didn't take the anti inflammatory the night before,
Speaker 1: your body was hurting at practice the next day. So
Speaker 1: the guys would joke, you know, there's gonna be a
Speaker 1: bad day if they forgot to take their pills. And
Speaker 1: I started thinking about it. In order for us to
Speaker 1: feel good to practice, we have to take pills. And
Speaker 1: when I noticed I started smoking, I didn't have to
Speaker 1: take as many pills to practice. And when I stopped
Speaker 1: smoking because I felt drug test, I noticed I was
Speaker 1: taking a lot more pills and I just didn't feel
Speaker 1: good to me.
Speaker 6: So just the side effects.
Speaker 1: And again I wasn't reading anything, and there was no
Speaker 1: one that was talking to me about it, so I
Speaker 1: didn't have the language. But my own lived experience was
Speaker 1: I prefer to the point where I jeopardize my career.
Speaker 1: Is I prefer the cannabis because it felt more like
Speaker 1: I was taking care of myself than the pills, where
Speaker 1: felt more like I was masking stuff.
Speaker 2: Right, Wow, that's real.
Speaker 1: This is what I've realized about pharmaceuticals. It's like so
Speaker 1: much about the pills that the doctor was giving me.
Speaker 1: It was like to cover stuff up, to hide it,
Speaker 1: to pretend like it wasn't there.
Speaker 6: Like the pills make it better.
Speaker 1: But whether it was the anxiety or the underlying cause
Speaker 1: of the pain, the pills didn't make it better. It
Speaker 1: just put me in a position where I was pushing
Speaker 1: myself beyond where it was good for me. And I
Speaker 1: noticed with cannabis it was it was making me feel better,
Speaker 1: but from a different perspective of being more aware of
Speaker 1: what hurts, where I feel the pain, so that I
Speaker 1: can go to treatment, so that I can stretch, so
Speaker 1: that I can do something about it, rather than just
Speaker 1: popping a pill and going about my business.
Speaker 5: Yeah, well you popped the pill and then well everything hurts.
Speaker 5: But when you a little more tuned in, you're like, oh,
Speaker 5: wait a minute, is this part of my knee that's yeah, okay,
Speaker 5: And it.
Speaker 1: Might seem simple, but true story, true story. My my
Speaker 1: second year in Miami, I had this little, this little strain.
Speaker 6: Right behind my calf muscle and go to.
Speaker 1: The doctors and I'll try to get him to explain
Speaker 1: it to them, and they didn't know what I was
Speaker 1: talking about. And so finally I said screw it. And
Speaker 1: we had like the medical books in the training room,
Speaker 1: so I just got one of the books and I
Speaker 1: like looked at that part of my body and I
Speaker 1: looked really closely, and I saw there's this little tiny muscle,
Speaker 1: you know, and I said, it's this is called the
Speaker 1: papladio muscle. I said, it's that muscle right there. And
Speaker 1: once I showed the doctor what the muscle, exactly what
Speaker 1: muscle it was, they knew how to treat it and
Speaker 1: it got better that quick.
Speaker 6: So I just found it's a different mindset.
Speaker 1: And because I think the mindset of most athletes, hopefully
Speaker 1: it's changing coming in is it's kind of like they
Speaker 1: can use my body anyway they want, and I have
Speaker 1: to follow all their rules right, And to me, I
Speaker 1: just couldn't make that work. So I think it's things
Speaker 1: are changing and people in the leagues are allowing the
Speaker 1: players to consume cannabis. It is giving the players more
Speaker 1: tools to be able to better take care of themselves,
Speaker 1: and I think it helps just in the mindset of
Speaker 1: an athlete. There's something that it does that allows us
Speaker 1: to feel more free and not like we're boxed in
Speaker 1: to do the work that they want us to do
Speaker 1: and we can't even take care of ourselves.
Speaker 5: As you're saying this, when you're saying you stepped away
Speaker 5: from it, I'm allowed a lot more insight, you know.
Speaker 5: I think people can now, Like just you saying that,
Speaker 5: that's like, oh wait a minute, Like, yeah, that was
Speaker 5: definitely decision for yourself.
Speaker 6: Tell you, I can feel it.
Speaker 1: I can feel like if I come back and try
Speaker 1: to do this, something's gonna I'm gonna get hurt because
Speaker 1: my heart's not in it.
Speaker 6: I'm somewhere else.
Speaker 1: I had this taste of the things that I could
Speaker 1: be experiencing, and again I started doing the math, and
Speaker 1: I said, my life is short, and if I don't
Speaker 1: have take this time to get to know myself and
Speaker 1: live a little bit now, I might never have the
Speaker 1: opportunity to. And I feel like I accomplished everything I
Speaker 1: wanted to and needed to with football, so I felt
Speaker 1: good about taking that next step.
Speaker 6: I was free.
Speaker 1: It was scary to make that call, but as soon
Speaker 1: as I hung up the phone, like the cannabis stuff aside.
Speaker 1: To me, I think cannabis was my ticket out. It
Speaker 1: gave me a way to get out. It truly did.
Speaker 6: It opened my mind to even imagine that I could
Speaker 6: be something other than a football player.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of guys the reason they stayed
Speaker 1: playing football so long is they can't imagine themselves doing
Speaker 1: anything else that would feel as good as football. And
Speaker 1: I started to see, I'm not gonna be able to
Speaker 1: do this for the rest of my life. I need
Speaker 1: to find something else I love. And when I started traveling.
Speaker 6: I was like, I love I love this experience.
Speaker 1: Of being able to go anywhere in the world and
Speaker 1: have an experience and be myself. And then I was
Speaker 1: traveling and I met this guy who gave me a
Speaker 1: book on alternative healing, and I started flipping through it,
Speaker 1: and I noticed there was a whole chapter on cannabis,
Speaker 1: and it was the first time that I had seen
Speaker 1: cannabis even mentioned alongside of something positive. So, of course,
Speaker 1: but my experience, I was all in this book and
Speaker 1: I started reading everything I could, and I started to
Speaker 1: realize there was a whole nother side of the story
Speaker 1: that we'd never been exposed to, and then I became
Speaker 1: passionate about trying to get to the bottom of that.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 5: So, because you said you went to school for you've
Speaker 5: been to several.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I've been a bunch of school.
Speaker 2: When was it?
Speaker 5: Like, Yo, this is the because they call it alternative medicine,
Speaker 5: but I don't like to call it that because that
Speaker 5: tries to make it sound like it's crazy.
Speaker 6: I actually came wait before this, exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is the part of the conversation that I
Speaker 1: don't think anybody talks about enough, you know, and part
Speaker 1: of it is read we don't have the language. It's
Speaker 1: like the dark ages of cannabis. When it was made illegal,
Speaker 1: we lost we lost the language, we lost the way.
Speaker 6: People used to talk about it.
Speaker 1: But if you go back to the late eighteen hundred,
Speaker 1: doctors knew how to talk about cannabis, and they had
Speaker 1: they had some clarity about all the things that could
Speaker 1: help with But I feel like we've lost we'd lost
Speaker 1: our ability to how to talk about it. And I
Speaker 1: think the biggest the biggest motivation for my advocacy is
Speaker 1: to empower people with the language and the permission to
Speaker 1: share their actual experience about it. Because we're talking about
Speaker 1: something that happened in two thousand and four, two thousand
Speaker 1: and five. It took ten years from there before I
Speaker 1: really felt confident enough to be an advocate right. And
Speaker 1: up until that point, my advocacy was.
Speaker 6: Not lying about it, right, not lying.
Speaker 1: Too much about right. That was my advocacy is somewhat
Speaker 1: telling the truth. And I remember when I came up here,
Speaker 1: right after I retired, I was sitting interviewing for sixty
Speaker 1: minutes with Mike Wallace, and Mike Wallace asked me, point, Blake,
Speaker 1: you know NFL tested you right now.
Speaker 6: Would you pass the drug test? And I remember like.
Speaker 1: Sitting there and like being nervous because all these people
Speaker 1: are watching, you know, And I was like, I have
Speaker 1: an opportunity to lie or to tell the truth, you know,
Speaker 1: And somehow and I told the truth right, And to me,
Speaker 1: that was the That was the first, my first form
Speaker 1: of true advocacy. But it wasn't until ten years later
Speaker 1: where I was at. I was living in Austin because
Speaker 1: I went back to school after I retired, and a
Speaker 1: teammate of mine, Kyle Turley.
Speaker 6: Big big time advocate, he's all in.
Speaker 1: He called me up and he said, hey, there's a
Speaker 1: cannabis conference at the convention Center in Phoenix, won't you
Speaker 1: come out and tell your story? And I was in
Speaker 1: Austin and I was getting a lot of flak for
Speaker 1: my reputation, so I was like, I'm good.
Speaker 6: I said, I'm good, and I hung up.
Speaker 1: The phone and I sat there and I thought about it,
Speaker 1: and I was like, first, I was like.
Speaker 6: There's a cannabis convention at a convention center.
Speaker 2: I was like whoa.
Speaker 1: I was like okay, and then I thought, you know,
Speaker 1: fuck it. Everybody knows I smoke anyway. So I called
Speaker 1: them back up and I was like, I'll do it.
Speaker 1: That's when that real advocacy started. I remember I went
Speaker 1: to Phoenix and I was sitting on this stage is
Speaker 1: probably like one hundred.
Speaker 6: And fifty people in the audience.
Speaker 1: And it was the first time that I told my
Speaker 1: story that I actually shared how it made me feel
Speaker 1: and how I used it, and it was like it
Speaker 1: was cathartic. It was healing, you know, because it was
Speaker 1: something that I kept inside that I didn't talk about,
Speaker 1: and to share with people right powerful, most powerful though
Speaker 1: it was afterwards, twenty twenty thirty people came up to
Speaker 1: me afterwards and basically told me I was their hero.
Speaker 1: And because I hadn't put myself out there, I didn't
Speaker 1: have exposure to the way that my.
Speaker 6: Story touched a lot of people.
Speaker 1: Because the way it unfolded for me, I kind of
Speaker 1: felt like a coward, you know. But to see that
Speaker 1: because I, you know, tried, I made an effort that
Speaker 1: it really inspired other people. When their parents or their
Speaker 1: coaches were giving them a hard time about smoking, they
Speaker 1: could point to me and say, look, you know, he doing.
Speaker 6: It, and look at him. I was like, WHOA. And
Speaker 6: I remember something my mom always says. He says, go
Speaker 6: where you're celebrated, not where you're tolerated.
Speaker 1: And I felt like in that cannabis convention, right for
Speaker 1: the first time since I failed a test.
Speaker 6: That I was actually being celebrated, you know, without.
Speaker 1: Without the astro, you know, and people would like the
Speaker 1: stories would even if someone wrote a positive story about me,
Speaker 1: right at the bottom, they would say he failed multiple
Speaker 1: drug tests, right, And I was like, right, like, we
Speaker 1: really need to throw that in everything.
Speaker 2: You don't.
Speaker 1: It's going to be funny to see how it evolves
Speaker 1: because most of us, most of us adults now have
Speaker 1: come out of a place where the prohibition, where it
Speaker 1: was always something different or you had to hide it.
Speaker 1: But I imagine, you know, maybe even my youngest kid
Speaker 1: or pretty soon after, it's not going to have that
Speaker 1: stigma so much that they have to deal with, so
Speaker 1: they to have more of a clean slate. And I
Speaker 1: think what they come up with and how they use
Speaker 1: it is gonna be even We're gonna see it keep
Speaker 1: growing and evolve.
Speaker 5: Right, and then it might not even be as abusive
Speaker 5: as I would say how I used it, you know,
Speaker 5: because now you don't have to run off somewhere, you
Speaker 5: don't have to go to one person's basement, and you
Speaker 5: don't have to put a bunch of spray on and
Speaker 5: eye drops and try.
Speaker 2: To whole thing.
Speaker 5: Like now you feel like now you're like, okay, I
Speaker 5: just needed two quick hits, but now it's this whole process.
Speaker 5: So you're like, I gotta finish it. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 5: I can't bring it back home like I got so yeah.
Speaker 5: So that's that's insightful, man, because so for me, I
Speaker 5: do comedy and I did Last Common Standing and I
Speaker 5: had some weed jokes in there, and I remember there
Speaker 5: was people like, man, you're not gonna be able to
Speaker 5: talk about weed. It's gonna be on NBC, and I'm like,
Speaker 5: at this point, it's legal in California. It's like I'm
Speaker 5: talking about something that's happening. And I wound up winning
Speaker 5: the show. But it was one of those things where
Speaker 5: it's like, no, I knew what I was talking about.
Speaker 5: I just had to you know, you just had to
Speaker 5: push through and believe you.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5: So I mean I definitely looked at you on the
Speaker 5: sports side and I'm like, no, like, there's so many
Speaker 5: people that tried to put that on. Oh, well you're
Speaker 5: gonna not You're not gonna have drive, You're not gonna
Speaker 5: have ambition, You're not gonna you know.
Speaker 2: What I'm not.
Speaker 5: Able to do is deal with all y'all putting stuff
Speaker 5: on me.
Speaker 2: But I'm able to deal with it when I have
Speaker 2: a look.
Speaker 1: I'm telling you, I had a conversation today and the
Speaker 1: dude talking to me, he's like, yeah, it's like I smoke.
Speaker 6: To treat my adhd.
Speaker 1: I was like, no, no, no, I was like, you spoke
Speaker 1: to deal with the people that are trying to like
Speaker 1: label you the way you are. Yeah, So that's that's
Speaker 1: actually And then we got to it. That's the deeper
Speaker 1: reason why I was saying I can't do this if
Speaker 1: I spoken, you know, it's just being around. This is
Speaker 1: real talk, okay, because part of the part of the
Speaker 1: drug conversation is about people using substances or whatever to
Speaker 1: escape their problems. Okay, and that's real. But you don't
Speaker 1: need cannabis to do that. There's a lot there's a
Speaker 1: lot you can watch TV, there's a lot of ways.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of ways.
Speaker 6: To do that.
Speaker 1: And when I launched my brand Heisman, our tagline is
Speaker 1: sparked Greatness because that's my background and that's my story,
Speaker 1: and my thing is cannabis helps us recover, Okay, but
Speaker 1: if you ain't doing shit, you don't have nothing to
Speaker 1: recover from, right, So it has to be it has
Speaker 1: to be a balance of actually doing something right, because
Speaker 1: even the creativity has to be the balance of doing
Speaker 1: something right and the need to like come back afterwards
Speaker 1: and reflect and make the connection so that you can
Speaker 1: go back and do it again right. And and so
Speaker 1: I realized that football, I was good at it, but
Speaker 1: I had like it wasn't really what I was supposed
Speaker 1: to be doing. In order to keep myself doing what
Speaker 1: I wasn't supposed to be doing.
Speaker 6: I had to smoke, you know.
Speaker 1: And and and I think that's part of the definition
Speaker 1: of medicine because sometimes in life we have to do
Speaker 1: things that we don't really want to do, but we
Speaker 1: have to learn to take care of ourselves while we're
Speaker 1: doing it. But also the recognition of when it's time
Speaker 1: to move on and do something else.
Speaker 5: I wanted to ask you, what's your relationship with the NFL.
Speaker 5: Are you advocating with them or is it a relationship
Speaker 5: with them now?
Speaker 1: I've had several conversations with the NFL, mainly on the
Speaker 1: Players Association side, because when I was going through my appeals,
Speaker 1: when I fell drug tests, the part of an appeal
Speaker 1: process is they send someone from the Players Association to
Speaker 1: support you. But at the time, cannabis was still so
Speaker 1: stigmatized it wasn't really much support, you know. They just
Speaker 1: kind of sat off in the corner, like didn't say
Speaker 1: anything anything to fit me. And so the conversations I've
Speaker 1: had with them is really getting them to change their
Speaker 1: attitude about cannabis, to say, this is not about substance.
Speaker 6: Abuse, this is about wellness, you know.
Speaker 1: And I've been talking to him about that over and
Speaker 1: over again, and finally they started to listen and in
Speaker 1: the last collective parting agreement, they said, we're taking cannabis
Speaker 1: off the table as a negotiating piece for substances of
Speaker 1: abuse and we're talking about.
Speaker 6: It as wellness.
Speaker 1: And that's what started to get the NFL to lighten,
Speaker 1: so they don't suspend players anymore for filling cannabis tests.
Speaker 1: They've raised the amount of THC metabolites in the urine
Speaker 1: to like three hundred and fifty nanograms per milli leader
Speaker 1: And that doesn't make sense, that doesn't mean anything to anyone,
Speaker 1: but it's basically, you have to have a huge cannabis
Speaker 1: problem in order for the NFL to get on the
Speaker 1: NFL's radar, where when I was, you just had to
Speaker 1: have a little system.
Speaker 5: Where can people or how can people do what you're doing,
Speaker 5: or how can they support what you're doing and advocate
Speaker 5: for the wellness side of the cannabis industry.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So what we've seen in the past decade is
Speaker 1: the NFL really changing their stance about head injuries, for example.
Speaker 1: So there's been a huge shift where because of the fans,
Speaker 1: really because of the fans that the NFL is having
Speaker 1: to take player safety more seriously.
Speaker 6: And they they've done it.
Speaker 1: And I think when cannabis gets lumped into that conversation
Speaker 1: about player safety and player wellness, I think that's when
Speaker 1: the NFL really starts to listen. When on social media,
Speaker 1: you know, they're seeing people say it's a travesty that
Speaker 1: these guys aren't allowed to take care of themselves with
Speaker 1: natural through natural means, and they're forced to take pharmaceuticals.
Speaker 1: And I already know that's what's been opening the NFL's
Speaker 1: minds those that kind of talk. And I think the
Speaker 1: more fans right become more player centric and saying, you know,
Speaker 1: for what Riggy Williams, you know, puts his body on
Speaker 1: the line to do all those things, he should definitely
Speaker 1: be allowed to consume cannabis to take compared to the alternatives.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I mean in the grand scheme of things,
Speaker 5: it would benefit them. You're getting you're getting the whole person,
Speaker 5: or at least you know them, closer to one hundred
Speaker 5: percent than just trying to keep putting the band aid
Speaker 5: on whatever's actually wrong.
Speaker 1: But also the alternative because and this is this is
Speaker 1: when I talk to the NBA players right. This is
Speaker 1: the argument that they used in the bubble helped. But
Speaker 1: the argument that NBA players used was, you know, after
Speaker 1: after a game and they have a specific story.
Speaker 6: I think they must have all got a line.
Speaker 1: They said, those specific games that we have back to backs,
Speaker 1: They said, after a game are adrenaline is so hyped up?
Speaker 1: You know that we don't have the ability to come down,
Speaker 1: so a lot of us are drinking and doing other things. Right,
Speaker 1: imagine if we could smoke that allow us to come
Speaker 1: down and get ready to do it the next day. Right,
Speaker 1: that's the car. They all say the same thing, and
Speaker 1: they use the back to backs. But I think when
Speaker 1: you humanize and it's easier to humanize basketball players because
Speaker 1: they're not wearing help and.
Speaker 6: All these pads.
Speaker 1: But I think when you humanize the athlete and you
Speaker 1: realize what we're doing and the amount of stress physical emotional,
Speaker 1: mental stress, and the alternatives we have to nurture ourselves
Speaker 1: based on the current landscape right now, it's just the
Speaker 1: compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care
Speaker 1: for themselves.
Speaker 5: Right, And like what you've done in allowing other athletes
Speaker 5: to step forward help everybody, because like you said, it
Speaker 5: helps athletes take care of theirselves. The compassion for somebody, well,
Speaker 5: it's the same thing for people who have cancer.
Speaker 2: Are the kids who have seizures.
Speaker 5: Or anybody who else is using it, like you said,
Speaker 5: medicinally and to help with wellness.
Speaker 2: And I think you put it a lot.
Speaker 5: Of ways just we're talking to you right here, that
Speaker 5: a lot of people don't look at it. A lot
Speaker 5: of people just are from that you know DARE program
Speaker 5: just say no reaf madeness era where oh it's you're
Speaker 5: a druggie, you're a druga and taking that out of it,
Speaker 5: like you said, giving people the right language to be
Speaker 5: able to talk about.
Speaker 1: I think the language and permission are the two biggest
Speaker 1: things because if people don't have permission, you can have
Speaker 1: the language, but they ain't gonna use it right. And
Speaker 1: if people have the language but they don't have permission,
Speaker 1: they're going to hide.
Speaker 6: So it's like you got to have you got to
Speaker 6: have both.
Speaker 1: And I feel like I'm in a position where I
Speaker 1: can talk right and as I talk, people can pick
Speaker 1: up the language of how I talked about.
Speaker 6: It ways that it related to them. But permission, right,
Speaker 6: that's where the advocacy work comes.
Speaker 1: In because when the NFL stops testing or takes it
Speaker 1: off the list, all the players that were too afraid
Speaker 1: but they're in a lot of pain, but they are.
Speaker 6: Too afraid to try it.
Speaker 1: It opens the door all the people in the world,
Speaker 1: right that know they need some help and whatever the
Speaker 1: doctor said isn't working, but they don't want to break
Speaker 1: the law. I think it's the first time in my
Speaker 1: life where I have appreciated, truly appreciated the power of
Speaker 1: the law.
Speaker 2: Right, it's real.
Speaker 6: I've been too DC three times.
Speaker 1: Right right before then, I was like, but this came up,
Speaker 1: and I was like, because just being in the industry,
Speaker 1: I've seen so many people and I heard so many stories,
Speaker 1: right aside from my own, I heard so many stories,
Speaker 1: and it's it's not even about me anymore. It's about
Speaker 1: realizing that because of my story, I have the ability
Speaker 1: to open doors and hopefully allow other people to have
Speaker 1: access in relief.
Speaker 5: Right, Yeah, what can people do to advocate on their
Speaker 5: own or you know, just try to get the thing
Speaker 5: pushed legally to where it needs to be.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I think what individuals can do is just
Speaker 1: be honest. It's just right, and it's not like take
Speaker 1: a flag and wave it around, you know, at your
Speaker 1: kid's soccer game.
Speaker 6: It's not it's not that.
Speaker 1: But if you're if you're around a mom or someone
Speaker 1: and they say, you know, I have a headache or
Speaker 1: I can't sleep, you know, and you know that taking
Speaker 1: a five milligrand gummy has helped you sleep?
Speaker 6: Right, just say something, you know, because it's not about hiding,
Speaker 6: it's about it.
Speaker 1: You have something that might offer someone some relief, and
Speaker 1: they might look at you like you're crazier say no.
Speaker 1: But they hear that enough times, right, because sometimes it's
Speaker 1: not the first time, and it doesn't feel good to
Speaker 1: be the first one to put up the idea and
Speaker 1: the person say that's crazy, But you say it once
Speaker 1: they hear it from someone else. To hear it from
Speaker 1: someone else, to hear it from someone else in their
Speaker 1: mind is more open. So I think we can all
Speaker 1: be advocates by just sharing our story, by being real.
Speaker 6: More specifically towards the NFL.
Speaker 1: You know, if a story comes out or you see something,
Speaker 1: don't be like.
Speaker 6: Everyone else and put the same tag why was he smoked?
Speaker 2: Why? Right?
Speaker 1: I get it, But that doesn't help, you know, So
Speaker 1: it's another version of just being honest, right, you know,
Speaker 1: and if I was giving a pep talk is to like,
Speaker 1: you know, I say, find yourself in history, you know,
Speaker 1: in the future, let's say ten fifteen years down the road, right,
Speaker 1: this is going to be a part of our everyday life,
Speaker 1: you know. And do you want to be the person
Speaker 1: that's like, damn, I missed the boat on that one,
Speaker 1: or do you want to be the one that feels
Speaker 1: good because you helped get it to that exactly exactly.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you for inviting us out here.
Speaker 5: And I've got to come back out here at some
Speaker 5: point because I got to check out some of the
Speaker 5: some of the scenery out here. But thank you again, man,
Speaker 5: one Drugs Podcast, Ricky Williams, Thank you so much.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 6: I feel like I'm a survivor of the world Drugs.
Speaker 2: You are a survivor.
Speaker 5: You definitely you a general at this point, Like, yeah,
Speaker 5: you definitely a general. You came out of it and
Speaker 5: you pulled more people through than what they put you through.
Speaker 5: So we appreciate thank you. Thank you.
Speaker 2: There it is Ricky Williams.
Speaker 5: Man in his own words, Uh yeah, it was great
Speaker 5: to be there and just just hear his side of
Speaker 5: the story. And how he really wanted his freedom.
Speaker 4: Peace by the way to you can you can peace.
Speaker 4: You can feel his like genuine like at EA's.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, to find something that kind of works for
Speaker 5: you For me, I'm like, man, think about how many
Speaker 5: other people weren't able.
Speaker 2: To find that? Yeah, So what talent, what ability? What genius?
Speaker 5: Are we missing in the world because we put this
Speaker 5: stipulation on this one plane.
Speaker 3: Now, something that Ricky was talking about the kind of
Speaker 3: triggers on to me was, you know, kind of this
Speaker 3: thing of like medicinal versus recreational and what's accepted and
Speaker 3: what's not, and you know, someone having anxiety dealing with
Speaker 3: these things at the peak of their powers, really actually
Speaker 3: trying to use something in a way that is medicinal.
Speaker 3: Like all the arguments that people have, Oh, people just
Speaker 3: want to go this is not what was happening here.
Speaker 4: This was a person trying to deal with this.
Speaker 3: And it's crazy how far we have come. I think
Speaker 3: in that conversation, because if Ricky's saying that on his
Speaker 3: own podcast or someone else's or what's going on about
Speaker 3: his use on that, I think we look at the
Speaker 3: today in a completely different light, like, oh, he has anxiety.
Speaker 3: I think it's really good that he's talking about. Like
Speaker 3: then it was you know, Mike Lupika and the Sports Report,
Speaker 3: all these were like this guy is a bomb and
Speaker 3: a bus. All he wants to do is party and
Speaker 3: have a good time. And it's like, no, that's what
Speaker 3: everyone else is kind of doing. Like this guy's actually
Speaker 3: not like he's trying to see something and trying to
Speaker 3: put his hand up and everyone's like, put your hand down.
Speaker 4: And it wasn't that long ago.
Speaker 5: And one of the things that he said too, that
Speaker 5: I think kind of ties into what you were just saying,
Speaker 5: is a lot of times people don't have the language
Speaker 5: to talk about it, right, he said at that time,
Speaker 5: he didn't have, you know, it was he couldn't put
Speaker 5: it into words. He didn't know that, oh, okay, this
Speaker 5: actually helps with that. He knows it's helping him. But
Speaker 5: how are you going to tell somebody when the whole
Speaker 5: world looks at it, Like you just said, you're just
Speaker 5: trying to get hot, You're just trying to party.
Speaker 2: You're just a weed head. Yeah, you're you're a stoner.
Speaker 5: And now that we do have the language and capacity,
Speaker 5: no matter which side of it, you're on. These are
Speaker 5: kind conversations that can be had. These are conversations that
Speaker 5: can be talked about even if you don't if you
Speaker 5: want to keep your kids away from weed, or if
Speaker 5: you want to be able to have it medicinally. Now
Speaker 5: that we have these words like it helps with anxiety
Speaker 5: and mental health. Yeah, it's all of these things that
Speaker 5: I don't think we're even thought of saying in the
Speaker 5: same sentence with marijuana.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean, like you couldn't talk about being like, hey,
Speaker 3: I don't think I should play now, you're not tough,
Speaker 3: And it was like, oh, you can't. Ricky was always
Speaker 3: he can't deal with the pressure, right, and it's like,
Speaker 3: what does that even mean. I'm just supposed to be
Speaker 3: dealing with the pressure.
Speaker 2: And at the same time, oh, you're dealing with paint.
Speaker 2: Come take this right exact Yeah, yeah, come get this shot.
Speaker 3: And then the turk guy, like the health guy, will
Speaker 3: be like, yeah, he can get you a few more
Speaker 3: like yeah, I mean you hear those stories about the
Speaker 3: pill passing and like the greenies, like the coffee they're
Speaker 3: taking amphetamines.
Speaker 2: In the eighties.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's unbelievable.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And so again that's why hearing these stories, particularly
Speaker 3: someone that was like in the middle of this area
Speaker 3: and where we've come now and hearing like how it's
Speaker 3: different for athletes, and you know, you think even like
Speaker 3: very recently Shikari Richardson she got suspended and even a
Speaker 3: lot of the pushback on her it really was like, well,
Speaker 3: this is her fault. She's wrong, like she should have known,
Speaker 3: and like, you know what it's and if.
Speaker 2: She wasn't able to tell her side of.
Speaker 4: It right exactly, probably roll with that.
Speaker 2: And who knows if she would ever got back into
Speaker 2: the Olympics.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you saw the push I mean there was
Speaker 3: I would I don't know what there was, but I
Speaker 3: assume the vast majority of folks in our country were like,
Speaker 3: this is not something that she should be knocked.
Speaker 4: Out of the Olympics. And I think there was a
Speaker 4: lot more empathy on her for she was.
Speaker 5: Asked the question had been asked right after a race,
Speaker 5: ties back into anxiety, mental health issues, those type of things,
Speaker 5: and me, you know me, come on, man, she won
Speaker 5: a race. She should get an extra metal like she won. Yeah,
Speaker 5: give her an extra little add on, man, You know
Speaker 5: how to give you the thing when you graduated, like
Speaker 5: give her an extra little sash because.
Speaker 6: She is crazy's looking to that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so special.
Speaker 5: Thank you to Ricky Williams. His family had his kid there.
Speaker 5: Reminded me of being with my son.
Speaker 2: It was great. Yeah, that's that's the first episode.
Speaker 4: What we got up next another amazing athlete.
Speaker 3: But we're going to talk a little bit more about
Speaker 3: actual physical pain and that's with Liz Carmose. She's a
Speaker 3: veteran m M, A fighter, gorilla, total badass. She's going
Speaker 3: to talk about some of her you know, in a
Speaker 3: world of combat sport where you're constantly under injury and
Speaker 3: strain and training. CBDs really helped her with her training
Speaker 3: and keeping at the top of her game so long
Speaker 3: in that sport, which you know, it's a pretty short
Speaker 3: shelf life for a lot of folks.
Speaker 4: And so we'll this ball rolling.
Speaker 3: But what an awesome guest to kick off with Ricky Williams.
Speaker 3: Awesome that you gotta do at Clay and amazing like
Speaker 3: in his home, Like it's cool to get to get
Speaker 3: that vibe and it's been awesome to travel around and
Speaker 3: see these people where they're at.
Speaker 4: Again, special thank you to Ricky and awesome.
Speaker 2: That was a war on drugs.
Speaker 3: The War on Drugs is a production of Lava for
Speaker 3: Good and Stand Together Music and association with Signal Company
Speaker 3: Number one. Stand Together Music unites musicians and their teams
Speaker 3: with proven change makers to co create solutions to some
Speaker 3: of the most pressing issues in our country, including criminal justice,
Speaker 3: for foreign addiction, recovery, mental health, education, free speech, and
Speaker 3: ending the War on drugs. Learn more at Standogether Music
Speaker 3: dot org. Be sure to follow Lava for Good on Instagram, Facebook,
Speaker 3: and threads at Lava for Good. You can follow Clayton
Speaker 3: English on Instagram, n X at Clayton English, and you
Speaker 3: can follow Greg Laude on Instagram and on X at
Speaker 3: Greg Latt. Executive producers Jason and Flahm, Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wardis,
Speaker 3: and Collette Wintraub. Senior producers Kelsey Stallnecker, Zak Huffman and
Speaker 3: Nick Stunf. Post production by ten ten, Audio talent booking
Speaker 3: by Dan Resnik. Rez Entertainment Head of Marketing and Operations,
Speaker 3: Jeff Cleiburn, Social Media director Ismadi Gaudarrama, Social media manager
Speaker 3: Sarah Gibbons, and art director Andrew Nelson.