Speaker 1: Oh, hey, if you're listening, you're gonna have to just
Speaker 1: finish listening to the show later. There's something more important
Speaker 1: that you need to be doing. If you remember back
Speaker 1: a few episodes we had on some anthropologists and archaeologists,
Speaker 1: and we talked about a project in which me and
Speaker 1: some other folks from the Meat Eater crew went out
Speaker 1: and butchered a bison using stone tools. We used particularly
Speaker 1: Clovis points, Clovis projectile points, stone flakes, and we like gutted, skinned, butchered,
Speaker 1: boned out, and entire bison in collaboration with researchers from
Speaker 1: Kent State University, SMU, Southern Methodist University, and Oregon State
Speaker 1: University as all part of this broader study about developing
Speaker 1: a toolkit, so to speak, for how to interpret what
Speaker 1: happened at Ice Age kill sites where all you have
Speaker 1: left is bone in stone. So we were using stone
Speaker 1: tools to butcher animal, and then the research was to
Speaker 1: be able to like look at what happened to these bones,
Speaker 1: what happened to these stones, and use it as clues
Speaker 1: right to put together the puzzles of what was going
Speaker 1: on when hunters during the Ice Age were chopping up
Speaker 1: bison and wooly mammoths and whatnot. That is now an
Speaker 1: episode that we've put together for YouTube. It is available
Speaker 1: right now on the me eater YouTube channel.
Speaker 2: If this is the me Eater podcast coming at you, shirtless, severely,
Speaker 2: bug bitten, and in my case, underwear.
Speaker 3: Listeningcast, you can't predict.
Speaker 1: Anything presented by first Light creating proven versatile hunting apparel
Speaker 1: from Marino bass layers to technical outerwear. For every hunt,
Speaker 1: first Light Go Farther, stay longer. Phil's got a new haircut.
Speaker 3: I do, yes, very boyish.
Speaker 1: Oh no, he looks like Yeah, he looks like one
Speaker 1: of my kids if I took a scissors. If I
Speaker 1: took a scissors and just clicked the little in the front,
Speaker 1: he'd have exactly my eight year old's haircut. Looks great.
Speaker 1: Does your wife like it or not like it? She
Speaker 1: likes it?
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I was. I I was getting shaggy.
Speaker 5: I had a haircut scheduled when we went to NWTF
Speaker 5: be honest, and then we ended up leaving town, so
Speaker 5: I had to cancel. Whenever I cancel an appointment, I don't
Speaker 5: know if anyone else is like this. If I have
Speaker 5: something set on my calendar and I have to get
Speaker 5: rid of it.
Speaker 4: For some reason.
Speaker 5: I never have the motivation to reschedule it. I just
Speaker 5: forget about it until it catches up with me.
Speaker 1: That's what keeps happening with my thing where they're supposed
Speaker 1: to put a probe in my butt. Oh, Beau, I'm
Speaker 1: that age, Huh. I just like I just can't. It's
Speaker 1: not that I don't want the experiences. I don't want
Speaker 1: to know if there's a problem. Yes, I get that,
Speaker 1: So you're you want the experience. No, I'm indifferent to it. Man,
Speaker 1: if we weren't, if this wasn't a bro like listen,
Speaker 1: if we were just talking privately and I and I
Speaker 1: didn't have any there may be a few people. If
Speaker 1: we were talking privately and I didn't have any and
Speaker 1: there's nothing like I would tell you a.
Speaker 3: Story that'll curl your hair.
Speaker 1: No, that would explain why how I've come to be,
Speaker 1: What what medical experience I had? That would that made
Speaker 1: me indifferent to the experience. Okay, but it's like I
Speaker 1: I like I would be. I just don't. I don't
Speaker 1: want to find out that I know I have a problem.
Speaker 1: Can't they do that by blood work?
Speaker 6: Now?
Speaker 1: Though that's what I thought you.
Speaker 3: I thought that my doctor was telling me that there's
Speaker 3: at least for a while the next ten years, that
Speaker 3: we didn't have to go down.
Speaker 1: Well, they changed it and then someone brought it back
Speaker 1: up not long ago, and for a while they bumped
Speaker 1: it Like I got aged. I was I aged in
Speaker 1: and an I aged out? Am I the oldest person here?
Speaker 1: Oh you, Brent Reiths fifty seven just turned fifty. You
Speaker 1: got a clear long time on me. I gotta lead.
Speaker 1: How's your colon? I could be? Situation pretty good. I
Speaker 1: don't want to talk about it. We're all good. One
Speaker 1: more thing, Clay, have you switched to all fire retardant clothing?
Speaker 1: Is there something you know about? Listen? I bought this
Speaker 1: shirt the other day because I just liked it. You
Speaker 1: didn't realize it was fire retard I.
Speaker 2: Paid quite a bit of money for it, and when
Speaker 2: I got out to.
Speaker 1: The truck, I was like, this sucker's fire retarded man.
Speaker 2: And I felt really good about it, and I've been
Speaker 2: wearing it all over just I feel like.
Speaker 1: I feel bulletproof. You know. When the back and oil
Speaker 1: field was like totally kicking ass and had half the
Speaker 1: country living over there, I went into a store there
Speaker 1: they have like fire tardant lingerie because you have to
Speaker 1: have fire retardant close. So they supply all your needs,
Speaker 1: not your personal needs. Wow. Joined today by Tony Paterson.
Speaker 1: You you disagree with Kansas trailcam thing. I think it's dumb. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I do.
Speaker 7: I mean, I know, I know the reason why they
Speaker 7: said it. They're going to ban it because there's hunter conflicts.
Speaker 7: But I just I don't think that's the issue.
Speaker 1: What do you think the issue is.
Speaker 7: I think the issue is people are just really bitching
Speaker 7: a lot about too much pressure out there, and they're
Speaker 7: finding ways to try to cut it down. I mean,
Speaker 7: what we're seeing in the white Tail space is Western
Speaker 7: hunting moving east. You know, people are really gatekeeping on
Speaker 7: the public land thing, and that's moving. You know, we're
Speaker 7: seeing that, you know, South Dakota and Nebraska and now
Speaker 7: Kansas and it just keeps coming east.
Speaker 1: Explain that more. What do you mean?
Speaker 7: I mean, it's the classic resident non resident fight, right,
Speaker 7: and you know, residents have power over the non residents
Speaker 7: and they will wield it. And I look at that
Speaker 7: and I go, you know, if you have if you
Speaker 7: have a problem like oh, there's too much pressure on
Speaker 7: this Kansas public land. The first reaction we have is
Speaker 7: take something away, and we take something away and we
Speaker 7: never give it back, and it's either an opportunity or
Speaker 7: something like that. And I just don't see, you know,
Speaker 7: I don't see Kansas whitetail hunters the same way you
Speaker 7: saw like Arizona water holes or you know some of
Speaker 7: the Western like really tight water sources that you know,
Speaker 7: twenty seven cameras on one tree type of thing.
Speaker 1: I just don't think it was that big of a deal.
Speaker 8: I know, twelve years ago you could bow lift over tags.
Speaker 8: On your way to Kansas's bow hunting opener. You could
Speaker 8: stop in Walmart and buy a lift over tag. And
Speaker 8: now it's they go when they go out for the draw,
Speaker 8: they're gone before midnight.
Speaker 1: That's it. People got wander lost now.
Speaker 8: Man.
Speaker 3: But are you saying the West companies is more like
Speaker 3: the West problems are now all so arising and showing up.
Speaker 7: The strategies are showing up, the strategies that the problem
Speaker 7: is actually moved from the East to the West, and
Speaker 7: now the strategies are coming back, you know, because we've
Speaker 7: been dealing with hunting pressure. You know, public land has
Speaker 7: been real busy in a lot of wait till states
Speaker 7: for a long time, and now you know that kind
Speaker 7: of moved out west. Everybody wanted to go hunt ELK
Speaker 7: and over the counter units and we're just kind of
Speaker 7: watching that wave wash back.
Speaker 1: But I just I look at.
Speaker 7: That and I go one of the solutions that I
Speaker 7: think we should be looking at is more public land,
Speaker 7: Like how do we do more walk in programs? How
Speaker 7: do we fund this better? Because when you look at
Speaker 7: these problems, it's always an access thing. We don't have
Speaker 7: enough space for people anymore. And I'm like, let's let's
Speaker 7: try to make some more space instead of always just
Speaker 7: defaulting to taking away something.
Speaker 1: So you think that there was a conversation in which
Speaker 1: someone said, I want to stick it to non residence.
Speaker 1: The way I'd like to stick it to non residence
Speaker 1: is make it that no one resident or non resident.
Speaker 1: Can you use a trail cam on public land in Kansas,
Speaker 1: but let's act like it's hunter conflict.
Speaker 7: Did you see the meeting that they had, Oh, I
Speaker 7: think I think partially. I think you know, when you
Speaker 7: when you do something like that, you're disproportionately affecting non residents, right,
Speaker 7: I mean, what do you think.
Speaker 1: Because they're not around to run their cameras. Well, they're
Speaker 1: and they're the ones are they able to put you
Speaker 1: don't think? So you don't run cameras in any other state?
Speaker 1: You've never done that? Well I would, I I'm not there.
Speaker 1: Have you ever been to another state? Yeah, because I
Speaker 1: run states. I run a camera. I run a camera
Speaker 1: basically aimed into the woods from my fish shack.
Speaker 2: Now, I know guys in Arkansas that have like thirty
Speaker 2: plus cameras in Kansas all round.
Speaker 1: Oh listen, I'm not like, I mean.
Speaker 3: I can tell you that cameras in Wisconsin.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but wait, you don't live in Wisconsin, do you no?
Speaker 1: How'd you do it? That's a good question. Listen. I'm
Speaker 1: so all right, listen, Okay, that's wrong about that detail.
Speaker 1: But I just think it's like, I think it's too
Speaker 1: It feels to me like it's too sort of uh indirect.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's too indirect, maybe like it's an indirect way
Speaker 1: to stick it to them.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean I don't think that's like, I don't
Speaker 7: think that's like the primary reason.
Speaker 1: I think it's just one thing that happens.
Speaker 7: But I and listen, I'm super sensitive to this because
Speaker 7: you know, Clay, you and I have talked about this
Speaker 7: where we look at like when I was growing up,
Speaker 7: I started bow hunting in nineteen ninety two, right when
Speaker 7: I turned twelve, and the enemy was the anti hunters,
Speaker 7: Like that was when animal rights activists and stuff like
Speaker 7: that was like the boogeyman, and like they're taking away
Speaker 7: our opportunities. And now I look at it state to
Speaker 7: state to state, and we will take away opportunities from
Speaker 7: each other all the time if it helps us. And
Speaker 7: I just think it's so bad, Like I think it's
Speaker 7: so danger.
Speaker 1: Do you think you should be able to do you
Speaker 1: think you should be able to hunt moose with a drone?
Speaker 1: I don't really know the answer is no. So you're
Speaker 1: comfortable that's stripping that opportunity away from somebody?
Speaker 7: No, no, no, no, listen, I'm not I'm not like a
Speaker 7: super defender of trail cameras.
Speaker 1: Like I don't really care about that part of it.
Speaker 7: Like if they took it away, wouldn't affect my success
Speaker 7: hunting at all. Same thing, like if they were like, oh,
Speaker 7: no more food plots, no more bait or whatever, Like
Speaker 7: I don't care personally. I just look at when these
Speaker 7: things go away, they just don't come back. And I
Speaker 7: don't think that's a resource issue when you say no
Speaker 7: more trail cameras on public land, it's not. It's not
Speaker 7: like that was causing, you know, the white tail population
Speaker 7: to plumbt because people were so effective at hunting. Yeah,
Speaker 7: you know so, And I you know, the drone thing,
Speaker 7: the technology thing, Like I'm I'm super sensitive to that,
Speaker 7: Like I don't. I look at the cell camera movement
Speaker 7: and the live stream movement with cameras and stuff, and
Speaker 7: I'm like, it doesn't make me feel good. But I
Speaker 7: also look at how quickly we'll give something up if
Speaker 7: it doesn't really like it would be kind of like
Speaker 7: I don't trap. I don't, I have no interest in trapping.
Speaker 7: But I will defend your right.
Speaker 1: To do it. Well you should, because I'll explain why. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought that up. I think that I'm
Speaker 1: trying to develop a principle. I might call it the
Speaker 1: I think I need a name for it, Ronella principle. No,
Speaker 1: so it sounds too self serving guard the gate. No
Speaker 1: either way, I'll work on the name of the principle later.
Speaker 1: But what you do is, are you familiar with with
Speaker 1: the way Alaska might bow to defer to traditional use practices. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: as we add new things in Okay, as new technologies emerge,
Speaker 1: and we need to pick and choose which of these
Speaker 1: we're going to go with, right, So pretty clearly we
Speaker 1: decided early on, we decided that drones would would be
Speaker 1: too up would be would upset a system that we'd
Speaker 1: already created. Mean that you could take a drone over
Speaker 1: a willow flat or over the top of a mountain
Speaker 1: and check the r side to see if there's elk
Speaker 1: using a certain meadow and get a live feed of
Speaker 1: what they're doing and then make your plan accordingly, we decided, well, no,
Speaker 1: because that will undo our that'll impact our habits, that
Speaker 1: will impact the systems that we have in place about
Speaker 1: how we control efficacy and what we regard as No,
Speaker 1: not even I don't even want to get into ethics.
Speaker 1: It'll upset and ingrained long in place system that we
Speaker 1: have about how we pursue game okay, And we decided
Speaker 1: not to do that because it would upset the norm
Speaker 1: too much. So there were we're putting a we're dismissing
Speaker 1: something new and preservation of an established norm. Okay, if
Speaker 1: you go the more you go back, I'll open up
Speaker 1: a criticism of my own argument a minute. But if
Speaker 1: you go back and start undoing the norm, I think
Speaker 1: that that's equally upsetting, Meaning I wouldn't undo the norm
Speaker 1: in order to make room for the new one. Would
Speaker 1: go like, okay, but how come so you would prefer
Speaker 1: that we still could use punt guns at night for waterfowl? Right,
Speaker 1: there's a limit to the logic I'm applying, but I'm
Speaker 1: not applying it. I'm not applying it retroactively. I'm not
Speaker 1: saying that the norm should be extended back to eighteen
Speaker 1: fifty or nineteen hundred. I'm saying, if we establish a
Speaker 1: baseline norm right now, I'm very interested in defending the
Speaker 1: baseline norm, knowing that to defend the baseline norm, we're
Speaker 1: going to need to make hard decisions about things that
Speaker 1: emerge in the future in terms of efficacy, right, and
Speaker 1: primarily in the way that it in the way that
Speaker 1: it preserves opportunity, you know, meaning things that allow it
Speaker 1: to be that if you know, you can kill one
Speaker 1: hundred elk off a mountain, things that let one thousand
Speaker 1: people take a shot at it, rather than one hundred.
Speaker 1: So if the camera thing, and I don't know, is
Speaker 1: there evidence that it increased, does it really helped efficacy?
Speaker 7: I don't think so. I mean, I really, I actually
Speaker 7: think it hurts people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've never seen an argument that since cameras, since
Speaker 1: cameras became prevalent, that public land efficacy is shot through
Speaker 1: the roof. I've never seen that.
Speaker 7: I hunt white tails a lot, and I think that
Speaker 7: they're I don't think they do us as many favors
Speaker 7: as people think. And I think people look at them
Speaker 7: as like it's a shortcut to scouting and it's just not.
Speaker 7: You know, and listen, I get the argument in Kansas
Speaker 7: or I get the public land argument of like claiming
Speaker 7: a spot because that sucks, right, like you walk in
Speaker 7: somebody's got a stand or somebody's got a camera.
Speaker 2: Like.
Speaker 7: I get that, So I get that argument about it.
Speaker 7: I just don't think, like, I don't think this was
Speaker 7: the answer to their problems.
Speaker 1: I don't. So, you know, I laid out like this
Speaker 1: because we kind of straight into this idea of you
Speaker 1: would defend trapping, and I think you ought to. I
Speaker 1: don't know that that the trail cam thing, like I've
Speaker 1: never seen any evidence or any argument the trail cams
Speaker 1: were increasing efficacy to the point where they had like
Speaker 1: cut back on how many people were allowed to hunt
Speaker 1: because everybody's killing deer because they've got trail cameras. I
Speaker 1: haven't seen that, and I don't think that them doing
Speaker 1: the trail cam thing is going to alleviate pressure on
Speaker 1: public lands. I mean, do you think there's dudes that
Speaker 1: are gonna be like, well, screwed, I'm not gonna hunt. No, no,
Speaker 1: So I think that it really is that you feel
Speaker 1: like when you're on there's an assumption, there is an
Speaker 1: assumption of privacy. When you're in the woods, and taken
Speaker 1: to an extreme, you go on to public land with
Speaker 1: the assumption of privacy, but you've entered a surveillance state
Speaker 1: that it's no different than walking into seven to eleven
Speaker 1: the number of cameras aimed at you, and I think
Speaker 1: that that pisses people off and it's unnerving.
Speaker 7: Sure, I think it's really hard. I mean for me
Speaker 7: to think, Okay, you could probably go walk through seven
Speaker 7: thousand miles of public land in Kansas and you might
Speaker 7: not have gotten your picture taken.
Speaker 1: I can tell you about a spot in Florida where
Speaker 1: you did.
Speaker 7: Yeah, listen, I've seen it seven hundred yards. But I
Speaker 7: just I look at it and I just go I
Speaker 7: just don't. I get why people are pissed at it.
Speaker 7: I get why they want it to go away. I
Speaker 7: understand that. I just don't think it's the solution to
Speaker 7: the problem.
Speaker 2: Is part of it, not disturbance at non hunting times
Speaker 2: of the year, those guys are just like year round
Speaker 2: running trail cameras and they're going in and they're monkeying
Speaker 2: around with stuff. Was part of it, not just disturbance.
Speaker 2: It's kind of like them putting limitations on shed hunting.
Speaker 2: You can't shed hunt until this time because we're trying
Speaker 2: to give these animals a break.
Speaker 1: That might have been part of the We pause real
Speaker 1: quick so I can finish introductions, because now you got
Speaker 1: this the whole. You got this hold of ball there, doude,
Speaker 1: And there's a lot to say about that. Sure, let's do.
Speaker 1: Let's do some introduction. Joined today for the first time ever.
Speaker 1: Boy Brent reeves glad to be here. Man, if you
Speaker 1: haven't heard them before, you're gonna hear about them all
Speaker 1: the time, true story, all the time. I heard a
Speaker 1: lot of people talking last night about Taylor Swift. Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: You think you hear about her a lot? Wait, wait
Speaker 1: till Brent Reid's new podcast starts up the boom. That's
Speaker 1: pretty good's new podcast.
Speaker 8: Yeah, this Country Life, How to cheat the system, How
Speaker 8: to beat the system. You gotta beat them, beat them
Speaker 8: at their own game.
Speaker 1: Brent.
Speaker 2: People would know if they listen to bar people would
Speaker 2: People would know Brent from the bear grea surrender and
Speaker 2: just lots of bear grease stuff. So Brent's a longtime
Speaker 2: friend of mine.
Speaker 1: M hm. Clay has been an advocate. Tell the whole
Speaker 1: story Clay about about Brent. We'll come back to it.
Speaker 1: Join Today by Jordan Bud.
Speaker 3: What's up.
Speaker 1: How's it going?
Speaker 9: It's going good, Glad to be here.
Speaker 1: You got guiding coming up.
Speaker 9: Yeah, had three archery guys for turkeys and really it
Speaker 9: had to miss and a snowstorm. So yeah, it's been
Speaker 9: a little rough.
Speaker 1: That was tough. Yeah, probably just because the season is
Speaker 1: it's not like springy.
Speaker 9: It's really not springy. No, and it's currently a snowstorm
Speaker 9: there right now too, So I think a future I'm
Speaker 9: just gonna hold off on the archery season till you know,
Speaker 9: further into April.
Speaker 1: How many clients you got coming for regular turkey?
Speaker 3: Eight?
Speaker 9: I think?
Speaker 1: Are you filled up?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 9: Yeah, filled up? Yeah, So that's good and people want
Speaker 9: to want to book out to twenty four to twenty five.
Speaker 1: So excellent. Crazy you got eight turkeys running around?
Speaker 9: Yeah, there was eight shredders. My dad sent me a
Speaker 9: picture in the arm yesterday morning.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I filled his new haircut. Jason Phillips is here.
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me. It's a packed toiles. Clay Nukem, Hello,
Speaker 1: and Janus Putiless.
Speaker 3: Good morning.
Speaker 2: Okay, finished off what you're saying now, Well, just about
Speaker 2: Brent and his podcast.
Speaker 3: No, no, no, no, no no, we'll get to that. We gotta go.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you got you're bringing up a whole other thing
Speaker 1: that that that that.
Speaker 3: The effect on wildlife effects on because because this is
Speaker 3: the thing you've been here, listen, I got, I gotta,
Speaker 3: I have a go ahead. Well, I just I just
Speaker 3: said what I had heard.
Speaker 2: I just asked somebody that was I felt like in
Speaker 2: the know, and I said, why did they do it?
Speaker 2: Why did they bend trail cameras in Kansas? And he
Speaker 2: said the first thing he said was it was an
Speaker 2: issue of disturbance of wildlife, yep, And that was that
Speaker 2: was his interpretation, probably many many things.
Speaker 1: Let me Okay, you know how when you're normally like
Speaker 1: a normal person who has a real ax to grind,
Speaker 1: and they like we see with the media, right like,
Speaker 1: depending on where you get your media, you see that
Speaker 1: they omit a lot of information in order to accentuate
Speaker 1: the parts that they're interested in, right right, that's like
Speaker 1: a so people who are ideologues, and in some ways
Speaker 1: I am would never say a thing that would damage
Speaker 1: their own argument. But in the spirit of not being
Speaker 1: that way, I'm going to point something out. I have
Speaker 1: been seeing a lot of things in the news and
Speaker 1: I've even jumped on them where hunters have said where
Speaker 1: hunters are looking at other land users or land use
Speaker 1: practices and saying it disturbs wildlife. So there's all this
Speaker 1: stuff around Colorado, and we've reported on a bunch of
Speaker 1: it where hikers, okay, recreationalists are disturbing wildlife. You want
Speaker 1: to know what disturbs wildlife? Kevin kidding me? Yeah, Well,
Speaker 1: they're saying that Colorado is too wet hikers and it's
Speaker 1: scaring elk Off I mean, it's like holy shit, like really.
Speaker 3: But no, don't you remember we did a whole podcast
Speaker 3: yes with mill the warden from Colorado, and it was
Speaker 3: the fact that it was a twenty four hour a day,
Speaker 3: three sixty five pressure where he's like, look, yeah, hunters
Speaker 3: apply a lot of pressure, but it's we're about two months.
Speaker 3: But the other recreation, now that is year round in
Speaker 3: those mountains, and it literally is like he's saying, on
Speaker 3: top of a fourteen or in January at midnight, it's
Speaker 3: not surprising to see a headlamp up there because there's
Speaker 3: some person went extreme and climbing to fourteen or January
Speaker 3: first at you know, at midnight in a snowstorm. It's
Speaker 3: just a thing now, right, And there's just pressure and
Speaker 3: just human activities all the time, and like you said,
Speaker 3: it just slowly but surely, just little chips at those
Speaker 3: deer when they every time they got to lift their
Speaker 3: head up just to see a passer by, that takes
Speaker 3: them away from taking that one bite of grass. And
Speaker 3: when that happens every single day, multiple times a day,
Speaker 3: it adds up to a lot of stress.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you're right, I forgot about that. He did
Speaker 1: acknowledge the thing, But there are a few months out
Speaker 1: of the year where I'm talking public, private, whatever, there's
Speaker 1: a few months out of the year where most things
Speaker 1: need to adjust their behavior in radical fashion because hunters
Speaker 1: are disturbing wildlife. So I'm just saying, like people in
Speaker 1: glasshouses don't throw stones and some respects. But there's a
Speaker 1: churn to the three hundred and sixty five days a
Speaker 1: year thing. But I always like a little bit when
Speaker 1: I hear that argument, I'm always like a little bit late. Listen,
Speaker 1: Let's let's be honest. No, I agree, yeah, Like you
Speaker 1: look where ducks want to go and then where they
Speaker 1: need to go. It's two different things.
Speaker 2: And I don't know the legs that that argument actually
Speaker 2: had in terms of was that the real reason, But
Speaker 2: you know, it feels to me like it it feels
Speaker 2: to me like a like an action point that an
Speaker 2: agency was able to take to kind of slap down
Speaker 2: just the encroachment of technology on to the traditional way
Speaker 2: of hunting. I mean, whether that actually cross somebody's mind
Speaker 2: or not, it feels like what it is because it
Speaker 2: is outrageous, Like if we could take you know, somebody
Speaker 2: from nineteen eighty four that was a bow Hunter was
Speaker 2: a Turkey hunt. Well, let's even say the nineties when
Speaker 2: things were a little bit more modern, after television and
Speaker 2: some of the you know, more modern things happen, and
Speaker 2: you put them in today's world and had them interview
Speaker 2: a guy and said, what are your number one priorities
Speaker 2: this year? I guarantee in the top three would be
Speaker 2: putting out trail cameras so that I can get intail
Speaker 2: about wildlife without being there.
Speaker 1: And people would go, what are you serious?
Speaker 2: I mean, the trail cam thing is wild, and man,
Speaker 2: I'm I play the game, so don't you know, don't
Speaker 2: hate the player or don't hate the don't hate the player.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Holms, you can fool me once, but you can't
Speaker 1: fool me. What I'm trying to say that you can't
Speaker 1: fool me again.
Speaker 2: The this trail cams are crazy, man, And I mean
Speaker 2: I use them like I use them like crazy.
Speaker 1: It is.
Speaker 2: It is wild how dependent we are on technology for that.
Speaker 2: And if you want to talk about fair Chase, I
Speaker 2: say this privately to people, like people want to talk
Speaker 2: about using dogs or bait or something, and say, fair Chase,
Speaker 2: Lord of Mercy Son, take the GPS on your phone
Speaker 2: and a trail camera. You if if we were on
Speaker 2: a different planet in front of an unbiased judge, and
Speaker 2: I had somebody that was telling me I wasn't fair
Speaker 2: Chase for using dogs and bait, and you had satellite
Speaker 2: GPS mapping on your phone, and just a trail camera went.
Speaker 1: You went from a jury and this I would win. Yeah,
Speaker 1: pick which one of these guys is unfair? I mean,
Speaker 1: it's true. I gotta ask you this though.
Speaker 7: If I said, Clay, in the next week, you got
Speaker 7: to kill a deer, I said, you can take this
Speaker 7: trail camera or you can take this bag of corn.
Speaker 1: You picked the trail camera.
Speaker 2: That's a that's a great that's a great comment that
Speaker 2: what would you? I would pick the corn too, But
Speaker 2: but I'm just saying that in the broader.
Speaker 1: In the bread, that's can we change the question? That's
Speaker 1: a great You have a year to kill a big
Speaker 1: smoker buck, trail camera, corn, trail camera?
Speaker 2: Really, I mean, I have to think about it.
Speaker 1: All.
Speaker 2: I'm saying, that's a great comment. I'm not saying what
Speaker 2: you're saying is true. But I'm just saying I kill
Speaker 2: a lot of stuff because of trail cameras. It encourages
Speaker 2: me beyond like I work harder because of trail cameras.
Speaker 2: I mean, like there's intangible factors like I got a
Speaker 2: picture of a of a I got a picture of
Speaker 2: I don't even want to say what kind of animal
Speaker 2: it was on my trail camera yesterday on my cell phone.
Speaker 2: I'm sitting here in Montana and I'm pumped, and I'm
Speaker 2: thinking about what I'm going to do this fall. But
Speaker 2: I'm doing stuff I would not be doing.
Speaker 1: Big old coon, Hey man, I could have caught it.
Speaker 1: I could have caught a raccoon off trail camera, but
Speaker 1: shows not to caught one. Oh every night he crosses
Speaker 1: on this beaver. Damn easy pickings. Mm hmm. But I
Speaker 1: let him walk. That's that's fair. Hey Tony, let me
Speaker 1: say this. Let me what response to you.
Speaker 2: If you're out west, I would totally take Like if
Speaker 2: you're in the eastern deciduous forest where I live, yeah,
Speaker 2: a bag of corn is going to be.
Speaker 1: But if you were in a place where you weren't
Speaker 1: allowed to use corn.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, if you're out west, like the GPS
Speaker 2: on your phone is taking people into places they would
Speaker 2: never have the courage to go or the guts to
Speaker 2: go or know was there. I mean, just the point
Speaker 2: is is that there's a lot of stuff going on.
Speaker 1: It's not always Apple styles. Dude, I totally agree with you.
Speaker 7: I honestly think one of the biggest advantages and one
Speaker 7: of the biggest problems we have now is it's so
Speaker 7: easy for you to pull up your phone in scout
Speaker 7: a spot. I mean, you can find public land anywhere
Speaker 7: private landowners, and I love it. But it's just opened
Speaker 7: up this world to everyone that you know, twenty years
Speaker 7: ago just wasn't there, and that I think that's a
Speaker 7: at least as big of a game changer as the
Speaker 7: proliferation of trail cameras.
Speaker 1: You know, it's possible to have both because even like
Speaker 1: I've always loved alcohol, to drink too much alcohol me too,
Speaker 1: And when I drank too much alcohol, I was like,
Speaker 1: you know what, they should probably never have a repealed prohibition.
Speaker 1: Even when I was having a drink, I would think
Speaker 1: that it's like you know who you know, Like, I
Speaker 1: love it, but I mean, really, is it really doing
Speaker 1: anybody he favors.
Speaker 8: Yeah, you're going to see the same thing though. I
Speaker 8: mean they outloud alcohol, people kept drinking it. There's people
Speaker 8: gonna be putting game cameras in cabs.
Speaker 1: Well, no, because what I just heard, you weren't hearing.
Speaker 1: We talked about this. But I got a friend in
Speaker 1: Arizona who I thought would have been livid about Arizona's
Speaker 1: trail camp ban because he is not only is he
Speaker 1: a guide, but he does a lot of scouting, okay,
Speaker 1: and he'll so he's got different guiding clients, and he'll
Speaker 1: go find stuff. Yep, He'll find something that catches his
Speaker 1: interest and he can then go, you know, he can
Speaker 1: go to an outfitter and get a client and be like, listen,
Speaker 1: look what I got from the suite whatever. I was like.
Speaker 1: And I said to him, and I didn't try to
Speaker 1: tee it up. I already discussed this once on the show,
Speaker 1: but I didn't try to tee it up too much.
Speaker 1: I said, hey, man, what did you think about the
Speaker 1: trail camp thing?
Speaker 9: Uh?
Speaker 1: He was all for it. And he said, what's interesting
Speaker 1: now is says you can't find a trail cam. He's
Speaker 1: talking about public opinion and where it really came from
Speaker 1: and where the public sort of sat on the trail
Speaker 1: cam issue.
Speaker 10: Right.
Speaker 1: He said, I haven't run into a trail cam since,
Speaker 1: and that wasn't that long ago. I haven't run into
Speaker 1: a trail cam still hanging in the woods that doesn't
Speaker 1: have a bullet hole through it. Really, I've heard that
Speaker 1: now you just shoot him when you see him, because
Speaker 1: they're not supposed to be there. They'll just start hiding
Speaker 1: them better. Yeah, but I mean, if you hide it
Speaker 1: too good, it's not gonna get any pictures. I can't
Speaker 1: find it.
Speaker 2: You're not an undercovered well lef agent.
Speaker 3: Have you had, Tony? Have you had it? Just before?
Speaker 3: We need to get off this topic. I know, but
Speaker 3: have you had any on public land that your experience
Speaker 3: has been negatively affected by seeing too many other people's
Speaker 3: trail cameras in the woods?
Speaker 7: No, in fact, and I don't. I don't run trail
Speaker 7: cameras on public land ever. It's just not part of
Speaker 7: my strategy. And when I drew Iowa last time and
Speaker 7: I was down there, I was walking past trail cameras.
Speaker 7: I was dragging deer past trail cameras. They were all
Speaker 7: over and I just look at it and I go.
Speaker 7: One of the things that trail cameras do is they
Speaker 7: convince people to not hunt you put them out and
Speaker 7: you're like, oh, these bucks aren't consistent, or they're only
Speaker 7: at night or whatever. So I actually I'm like whatever,
Speaker 7: Like they're out there. And if you would have looked
Speaker 7: at the prevalence of trail cameras where I was hunting,
Speaker 7: you'd be like, this place is getting pounded. But I
Speaker 7: had so much of that public to myself. You know,
Speaker 7: part of it was October. It wasn't the right.
Speaker 1: Forgetting pictures of Tony Peterson all the time. I just.
Speaker 7: I just walked by a wave and so no, but
Speaker 7: I don't. I'm just kind of used to it, you know.
Speaker 7: I mean, it's just like a part of the thing,
Speaker 7: and it listened it does it piss me off a
Speaker 7: little bit kind of you know, like I'm getting old
Speaker 7: enough where that kind of stuff makes me a little grumpy.
Speaker 7: And it's the same thing when I walk in and
Speaker 7: there's a you know, a ladder stand chained to a
Speaker 7: tree on land. You're not supposed to leave a stand
Speaker 7: up overnight. But it's just when you hunt public land,
Speaker 7: it's just part of the game, man Like, it's just they.
Speaker 3: If you have a trail camera, picture come part of
Speaker 3: the game.
Speaker 1: But it's been for a while, you know.
Speaker 2: If you have a trail camera picture if Tony Peterson
Speaker 2: on your phone, and you'll send it somehow to me,
Speaker 2: I will send you a bargery's hat.
Speaker 1: Now you know, uh, you remember earlier I mentioned I
Speaker 1: have a trail came at my fish shack. There's like
Speaker 1: a really good game trail behind my fishack. Well, one
Speaker 1: of my friends went back there and she peeded and
Speaker 1: then she saw that the camera pulled my cards. Has
Speaker 1: to give you my card back. So here's a person
Speaker 1: where uh, here's a person that you know, not on
Speaker 1: private land, but here's a person that really didn't like
Speaker 1: that h feeling.
Speaker 3: I acid beyond trail cameras. I can remember being a
Speaker 3: young guide and thinking hunting public land, guiding public land
Speaker 3: in Colorado and thinking, all, there's just beautiful, serene places,
Speaker 3: and that's what I came to expect. And the first
Speaker 3: time you go into a meadow and you think, oh,
Speaker 3: no one else is on this meadow forever. And then
Speaker 3: you search around in some upper corner a little farther
Speaker 3: than you've ever been, and all of a sudden you
Speaker 3: find the leftover milk crate or the metal folding chair
Speaker 3: or whatever, just some sign that somebody else was there
Speaker 3: before you once and it just takes away from the experience.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: I like the woods just looking like no one's been there,
Speaker 3: you know, maybe a boot track here and there.
Speaker 1: Can I tell you about my sweet trail cam setup
Speaker 1: that I have Right now, dude, there's this biggest picture,
Speaker 1: the biggest nastiest scree slide you ever seen in your life.
Speaker 1: I mean from the bottom of the mountain to the
Speaker 1: top of the mountain scree slide. H But then imagine
Speaker 1: that there's like a finger timber that noses out into
Speaker 1: that scree slide, and a finger timber on the other
Speaker 1: side that noses out into that screen slide, and a
Speaker 1: little band of brush that connects those fingers of timber.
Speaker 1: And when you go up there, it looks like it
Speaker 1: looks like someone that over the years, someone is actually
Speaker 1: coming and smoothed the rocks out. M M. I got
Speaker 1: one hanging right there. What kind what kind of animals
Speaker 1: are you getting? Whatever? I don't know. Here's the deal.
Speaker 1: It's a see now I'm retelling my story. Two years ago,
Speaker 1: I went up there and I'm not gonna It's like
Speaker 1: a place I'm gonna go. And I was like, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna come in a year and get my camera. So
Speaker 1: I went and hung it up there, talked all year
Speaker 1: to my wife about my camera and fretting about it
Speaker 1: and how I was gonna get up there, and thwarting
Speaker 1: I was gonna make her come with me, and my
Speaker 1: plans got ruined. And eventually I go up there and
Speaker 1: I had forgotten to turn some bitch on, so I
Speaker 1: set it back, and it'll have been sitting there a
Speaker 1: year this.
Speaker 3: June on this time, we think, and I got wolverines bulbs.
Speaker 1: Who knows what's waiting on that thing? So I'm talking
Speaker 1: out of both sides of my mouth here.
Speaker 3: Tony Peterson might be on there.
Speaker 1: Dragon White, I think that's highly unlikely. Okay, moving on.
Speaker 1: This is the most amazing news story I have a
Speaker 1: come across. Where was this supported? Oh? The Guardian? You know,
Speaker 1: the Guardian always has a lot of We're I was
Speaker 1: getting scooped by the Guardian, which is a British rag.
Speaker 1: The Guardian is. So here's the deal. In northern Japan.
Speaker 1: Japan has prefectures, which I'm not sure what that means.
Speaker 1: Let me just tell you what's going on there. They
Speaker 1: have a bear meat vending machine. Which has proven to
Speaker 1: be a surprising success. The machine in the northern prefecture
Speaker 1: of Akita sells locally killed wild bear. Now there's a
Speaker 1: hunt club there in this remote area. Hey, what'd you say?
Speaker 1: It comes out to a pound.
Speaker 6: One hundred and fifteen bucks one hundred.
Speaker 1: And fifteen dollars per pound of bear meat. Not a
Speaker 1: bad deal. That puts a bear. That values a bear
Speaker 1: at about a per pound. I killed a big bear
Speaker 1: one time and got the bat. I had the backstraps,
Speaker 1: I had the backstraps, and eighty three pounds a ground
Speaker 1: off it.
Speaker 6: I'd say that's eight thousand dollars bear.
Speaker 11: Yeah, So what they're selling at they're selling at two
Speaker 11: thousand and two hundred two thy two hundred yen for
Speaker 11: two hundred and fifty.
Speaker 1: Grams of bear meat, which comes out to tummygin iink
Speaker 1: one fifteen one fifteen pound. There's a nearby railway station
Speaker 1: in the town of Semboku, Okay. This guy sets up
Speaker 1: a bear meat vening machine, and now he's got people,
Speaker 1: he's got requests for mail order deliveries into Tokyo. There's
Speaker 1: a there's a hunt club nearby, and the hunt club
Speaker 1: got permitted in the mountains the hunt club got permitted
Speaker 1: to kill a certain number of bears during the hunting season,
Speaker 1: and they set up a vending machine to sell it.
Speaker 1: A customer said, bear meat tastes no one of their
Speaker 1: spokesmen bear meat tastes clean and doesn't get tough. This
Speaker 1: is not a total departure because in my reading here,
Speaker 1: venning machines are ubiquitous in Japan, selling odd things you
Speaker 1: can get like hot and cold drinks, edible insects, hamburgers.
Speaker 1: But they now have one selling meat. You can also
Speaker 1: in Japan by whale meet in a vending machine. One
Speaker 1: hundred locations around the country in the next five years
Speaker 1: will be selling whale meat and vending machines.
Speaker 3: Incredible, it would happen in our country if it was legal.
Speaker 1: Yep, yeah, I think so. So the number here's the
Speaker 1: thing you don't really think about with Japan. The number
Speaker 1: of bear encounters has risen in recent years from an
Speaker 1: estimated four thy eight hundred like human bear conflict encounters
Speaker 1: in two thousand and nine, to more than twenty thousand
Speaker 1: and twoenty twenty two people killed in one hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty eight injured from bears in Japan. H A shortage
Speaker 1: of acorns. Yeah, shortage of acorns. This is a forty
Speaker 1: percent of the encounters in twenty twenty occurred in residential,
Speaker 1: in urban areas, or on agricultural land. Experts say a
Speaker 1: shortage of acorns and their natural habitat means that animals
Speaker 1: are more likely to come into contact with humans as
Speaker 1: they foraged for food.
Speaker 3: Acorn in Japanese is donguri in Japan.
Speaker 8: I wonder how the hill folks say, here's the earth
Speaker 8: that you might not think of when you think of Japan.
Speaker 1: A eight point eight five foot brown bear three hundred kilograms?
Speaker 1: What's that?
Speaker 6: Put them at four fifty.
Speaker 1: Four hundred and fifty pounds? Brown bear killed good size bears.
Speaker 1: Listen to this. Oh sorry, this is going back to
Speaker 1: nineteen fifteen, but it's still warrants discussion.
Speaker 2: It appears there's two species of bears pan a brown
Speaker 2: bear and a Asiatic black bear like they call They
Speaker 2: called a Japanese black bear ursus the bitanus jeppanikus.
Speaker 1: We used to do a trivia question at our live
Speaker 1: shows where you had to name I can't remember how
Speaker 1: many of the world's bears you had to name. Some
Speaker 1: of the bears you know what used to stump the
Speaker 1: shit out of people at the trivia show the live
Speaker 1: show is name five of the was it six of
Speaker 1: the seven or five of the six cats? Wild cats
Speaker 1: natives of North America and uh, people had a very
Speaker 1: hard time doing that. Or we'd say name the name
Speaker 1: like six members of the weasel family, which you think
Speaker 1: would be a slam dunk, but that stump people.
Speaker 2: Now that would get made the weasels cause.
Speaker 1: They don't know what to put in, like skunks and
Speaker 1: badgers and stuff. So continuing on, check this out. In
Speaker 1: nineteen fifteen, a brown my own bear killed seven people
Speaker 1: and injured three others on the northern main island of Hokkaidu.
Speaker 1: A hunter tracked down and killed it. Can you imagine
Speaker 1: that would be quite a news story here in the
Speaker 1: US today? Was it like over a period of time
Speaker 1: or does it say? Doesn't say? Isn't think about that?
Speaker 2: I know a story and I don't know it well,
Speaker 2: so I'm going to tell it very generically.
Speaker 10: But in.
Speaker 2: The last forty years, there was a guy, an American
Speaker 2: guy that took hounds to Japan and hunted for an
Speaker 2: extended period of time in Japan with American.
Speaker 1: Bear dogs bear. Yeah, did he do good?
Speaker 2: I think so. I think it was a very specific
Speaker 2: reason that he was there. It was they were having
Speaker 2: some trouble and like they recruited guy to come, and
Speaker 2: he went and took his as I recall, he took
Speaker 2: his plot hounds and went to Japan and hunt for
Speaker 2: a short period of time. I don't remember the context
Speaker 2: of the story, but interesting.
Speaker 3: Likely story a plot guy would tell detail.
Speaker 1: I remember this is this is interesting. If you listen
Speaker 1: to the show. You heard recently me talking about a
Speaker 1: guy ran into at the Cabo airport who had a
Speaker 1: fanny pack. You know Rogan Wars fanny packs. I sent
Speaker 1: this to him as well, has a fanny pack made
Speaker 1: to look like a human gut overhanging your belt. So
Speaker 1: I see him in the airport, slender Feller, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: what's going on? As I'm standing next to him, and
Speaker 1: it takes me a while to realize that he has
Speaker 1: a fanny pack made it look like a large overhanging
Speaker 1: gut with a knave in the hair and everything hanging
Speaker 1: out of his T shirt. I talked about this on
Speaker 1: the podcast and we got this note. I was listening
Speaker 1: to Monday's podcast and double over laughing at Steve's description
Speaker 1: of his observation of me with my belly fanny pack
Speaker 1: at the Cabo Airport. I'm a big fan and immediately
Speaker 1: recognized him at the airport. I feel it's rude to
Speaker 1: approach famous people, especially with their families in public, so
Speaker 1: I didn't approach him. But I've been telling everyone that
Speaker 1: I saw Renelle at the Cabo airport to hear that
Speaker 1: he has been telling people about the fella he saw
Speaker 1: with a ridiculous novelty pack to describe the other side
Speaker 1: of the interaction that wasn't as hilarious. My wife bought
Speaker 1: me the fanny pack as a gag gift for Christmas.
Speaker 1: I've paid her back by wearing it anytime. I pay
Speaker 1: her back by wearing it anytime I travel her.
Speaker 2: What are the chances that Steve that this guy would
Speaker 2: have known Steve manny pack.
Speaker 1: In the longgoing debate about golf courses that we've had,
Speaker 1: and this whole wrinkle has emerged about how golf courses
Speaker 1: make great a golf course person pointed out, and I
Speaker 1: gave him a lot of credit for pointing this out.
Speaker 1: He pointed out, like they live in a suburban area
Speaker 1: and they have a golf course. It's got woods, it's
Speaker 1: got I don't know how many hundreds of white oaks
Speaker 1: that he's counted up, water holes, all the wildlife that
Speaker 1: lives there. And he's like, tread lightly when you're hacking
Speaker 1: on golf courses because in a lot of places, that
Speaker 1: is the area's wildlife habitat. That's it. And he was
Speaker 1: talking about his particular golf course. They do a lot
Speaker 1: to foster to create wildlife habitat, and even how some
Speaker 1: golf courses are regured with register with the Audubon Society,
Speaker 1: and they do things to improve bird nesting habitat on
Speaker 1: golf courses. And I'm only mentioning this guy's note because
Speaker 1: he goes on to say, here's why. When he's shut,
Speaker 1: he's been shopping for land. And he said he's very
Speaker 1: interested in buying a golf course. She says, if I
Speaker 1: want to put in food plots, they already have clear
Speaker 1: areas with irrigation, they already have ponds. Since better drier
Speaker 1: land is often put to higher use, there is often
Speaker 1: some wetland area the course is built around where you
Speaker 1: can duck hunt. They have a network of paved cart
Speaker 1: paths in place to it for easy transport of gear
Speaker 1: and your kill. There's a clubhouse, a kitchen facility in
Speaker 1: a bar. But the reason I mentioned this whole thing
Speaker 1: is me and Yanni's friend did this. He bought an
Speaker 1: undid a golf course. I mean undid it.
Speaker 2: You couldn't golf course. Just take the flags out of
Speaker 2: the hole.
Speaker 1: No, dude, one.
Speaker 3: The club house, he removed it. It's gone.
Speaker 1: Oh he didn't want to hunting camp. He took some
Speaker 1: of the fairways and planted him in oak I mean
Speaker 1: he did.
Speaker 3: The golf course. Yeah, if you drive by there now,
Speaker 3: there's no way you would ever know that it used
Speaker 3: to be a golf course. And it wasn't that long ago.
Speaker 3: The first time we went, you could tell it was
Speaker 3: a golf course.
Speaker 1: He undid it as a wildlife property. That's pretty cool now.
Speaker 2: The place that I grew up, so my dad always
Speaker 2: wanted us to play golf and I never did. And
Speaker 2: the old golf course that we used to play on
Speaker 2: when we were kids in my hometown in Arkansas is
Speaker 2: now no more. And it's like a it looks like
Speaker 2: a cutover, it's like grown up at least the last
Speaker 2: time I saw it.
Speaker 1: Refugia Wildlife. Yeah, and it's true. We have a local
Speaker 1: golf courses plaster through the wildlife. So I get it.
Speaker 1: This means you know, I mean, this is like listen
Speaker 1: golfers whose golf courses not the same thing. A little
Speaker 1: update here. A long time ago. You know what's funny.
Speaker 1: We were recording so we had the Atlanta Braves player
Speaker 1: Austin Riley on the podcast, and we were recording the
Speaker 1: podcast in Atlanta, and at as we were recording it,
Speaker 1: the Walleye cheating scandal in Ohio was erupting. That's how
Speaker 1: I can place that. On that episode, I did a
Speaker 1: very spirited defense of the Montana woman who mistook a
Speaker 1: husky puppy for a wolf and rugged it out and
Speaker 1: put it on social media. And you can imagine how
Speaker 1: that went over in my spirited a defense of her.
Speaker 1: My defense was this, it's not as bad as it seems.
Speaker 1: So it's a tepid I call it spirit, a tepid
Speaker 1: defense being not as bad as it seems, right, not
Speaker 1: as bad as it seems. So she just got a
Speaker 1: six month deferred sentence. I can't be this much trouble
Speaker 1: for this. Yeah, I mean neither a six month deferred
Speaker 1: sentence and banned banned from using a hunting rifle for
Speaker 1: six months on the Flathead National Forest. I like how
Speaker 1: specific that is. So for six months no rifle on
Speaker 1: this particular national forest from so they can rest assured
Speaker 1: that no more husky puppies will be killed by her
Speaker 1: for at least six months. That's that's the punishment.
Speaker 3: Sounds like they had to give her a punishment, and
Speaker 3: so this is what they came up with.
Speaker 1: What they came up with, that's one heat cycle oh
Speaker 1: for oh a conservation. So she was charged. She had
Speaker 1: a misdemeanor offense for animal cruelty. M hmm. Does anybody
Speaker 1: have anything wildly different than how I view it? I mean,
Speaker 1: I can.
Speaker 2: It's a mistake that could be made. I mean, if
Speaker 2: you're in wild country, you could legally shoot a wolf.
Speaker 2: You're three hundred and I don't know the details of
Speaker 2: the story. It's reasonable that someone could shoot a husky
Speaker 2: and think that it was a wolf. And if you
Speaker 2: and if you were not an experienced person in the
Speaker 2: in the woods, you'd never seen a wolf up close before,
Speaker 2: I could understand it's reasonable to think that someone would
Speaker 2: think a husky puppy or a husky was a young wolf.
Speaker 2: It seems reasonable to me, even after skinning it out.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's as far as morgument goes. Like the
Speaker 2: corner trail everything.
Speaker 1: I didn't have a cow, and it was like a
Speaker 1: guy had dumped a guy had I don't know why
Speaker 1: this sum bitch isn't that the guy had taken a
Speaker 1: whole litter of dogs and dumped them up in the mountains.
Speaker 1: Who's that? Maybe he is in trouble.
Speaker 3: He must be if he's been caught.
Speaker 1: They just had to leave a They just had to
Speaker 1: leave a paper trail. It sounds like I mean, they
Speaker 1: had to they had to do something. They had to
Speaker 1: do something. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Uh, that's what the game warden said to me at
Speaker 2: the time that my legally caught and legally kept wild
Speaker 2: buck got loose and went and roughed up my neighbor.
Speaker 2: That's what the game warden said to me everybody about.
Speaker 2: He said, you're gonna have to We're gonna have to
Speaker 2: leave a paper trail legally. I had a deer, a
Speaker 2: wild caught deer in a that we kept. We raised
Speaker 2: several of them, and one day.
Speaker 1: My already you were a captive deer breeder. I was
Speaker 1: for a time my kids were young.
Speaker 2: I set out to raised deer and a long story short,
Speaker 2: a pit bulldog ended up in the pen with my
Speaker 2: forked horn buck and they were going round and round.
Speaker 2: I mean, the deer was going to get killed. The
Speaker 2: dog got in there. It wasn't my dog. And so
Speaker 2: the only way to remedy the situation was to open
Speaker 2: the door. They're running circles, and when that buck came around,
Speaker 2: he just went straight out the gate, and I shut
Speaker 2: the gate and captured the dog, you know, called the
Speaker 2: called the dog owner, and the buck was gone for.
Speaker 1: He was just gone, okay.
Speaker 2: And he had a collar on and what kind of
Speaker 2: collar like a dog collar? Get a dog collar on
Speaker 2: a It was a really dramatic scenario where I hear
Speaker 2: a dog bark and I look out and there's just
Speaker 2: this like chaos, and you have a collar on your deer. Uh,
Speaker 2: just so somebody wouldn't sneak up in my yard and
Speaker 2: shoot it thinking that it was a deer. Just when
Speaker 2: you when you have when you have deer steve, you
Speaker 2: put collars on them. I want to this is no
Speaker 2: longer legal in Arkansas.
Speaker 1: But for years you could.
Speaker 2: You could keep up to six handcuught deer from the wild,
Speaker 2: and I wanted my kids to.
Speaker 1: Catch them by hand. I mean, okay, but okay, if
Speaker 1: I gave you the rest of today.
Speaker 2: Camera and all the cameras you want, I'll tell you
Speaker 2: stories about hand catching deer. An catch them as you
Speaker 2: got to catch them. Man, there was a period of
Speaker 2: time when my kids were young, about four or five
Speaker 2: years that I became an expert at when fawns were
Speaker 2: born in the Ozarks.
Speaker 1: I would go hunting for him. No, I've come across
Speaker 1: some hunting morels because you're looking right, Yeah, so I
Speaker 1: don't do that anymore. So you can.
Speaker 2: You know it's not legal anymore.
Speaker 1: But you gets out. Okay, but I want the whole
Speaker 1: damn story. But I do want to catch Like walk
Speaker 1: me through catching one.
Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you how I caught one. I was
Speaker 2: driving down the road, and boy, if I want to
Speaker 2: say it was May eighth, I would have remembered the
Speaker 2: date ten years ago.
Speaker 1: And there's a dose stand in the road with two
Speaker 1: little fawns, and.
Speaker 2: The dough jumps off and the fawn beds down in
Speaker 2: the ditch. I literally got out of the truck, picked
Speaker 2: it up, put it in the back seat, and we
Speaker 2: raised it bottle fed up.
Speaker 1: And the other one my father in law picked up
Speaker 1: for me.
Speaker 2: I used to go out when when guys were cutting
Speaker 2: hay and walk hayfields, and when they're about four or
Speaker 2: five days old, you can't hardly catch them, but when
Speaker 2: they're young, you can catch them.
Speaker 1: And uh so, yeah, we raised three deer.
Speaker 6: Oh.
Speaker 2: I mean, I could bore you with stories, and I've
Speaker 2: told some of them on the media podcast, but.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I'm afraid people have heard them now.
Speaker 2: I raised a dough that we called Lulu that lived
Speaker 2: in our house like a like a like a pet
Speaker 2: dog for a long period of time. And eventually, again,
Speaker 2: you can't do this anymore, so this is like not okay,
Speaker 2: but this at the time it was and we ended
Speaker 2: up kind of releasing her back into the wild, and
Speaker 2: she raised at least three pairs of fawns that she
Speaker 2: she became wild. She raised three pairs of fawns that
Speaker 2: she would bring back to our house during periods of stress. Really,
Speaker 2: when it got real hot in August, we'd be eating
Speaker 2: dinner and we'd look out the window and there'd be
Speaker 2: Lulu standing there about five feet from the window looking
Speaker 2: at us. Huh ultra wild like you go out and
Speaker 2: she'd run off, But then she'd stop and she was
Speaker 2: looking for a handout.
Speaker 1: One time, tell about your daddy. Yeah.
Speaker 2: One time I was bow hunting a mile from my
Speaker 2: house and Lulu walked underneath me with her fawn. One time,
Speaker 2: another buck that I had, great that we let this.
Speaker 1: I've told this story before. Stop me someone.
Speaker 2: One time I raised the buck and I let him
Speaker 2: run wild, or just let him run loose around my house.
Speaker 2: The older he guy, he was a button butt. No no, no,
Speaker 2: let him run just like like loose out in the
Speaker 2: yard like a dog.
Speaker 1: And when he.
Speaker 2: Became a when he became a button buck, he would run.
Speaker 1: He he just started to become more.
Speaker 2: He would just be gone for a little while and
Speaker 2: just disappear for like hours at a time. I go
Speaker 2: muzzle oder hunting across the road from my house. I'm
Speaker 2: sitting on the ground. The wind that's hitting me in
Speaker 2: the back of the neck, blowing down into this little drawl.
Speaker 2: I see two deer coming and it's a antlerless deer
Speaker 2: and a small buck and they're coming, and I go,
Speaker 2: here we go. There's a deer and the wind's blowing
Speaker 2: straight down the hill, and I see that they're going
Speaker 2: to cross my wind. And when the antler lists deer
Speaker 2: crosses my wind, it's my deer. He's piled up. He's
Speaker 2: piled up with another buck. And when he hits my wind,
Speaker 2: he turns directly towards me, starts grunting, and walks up
Speaker 2: to me and starts licking my ear while I'm in
Speaker 2: a I've got the gun up on my knee, and
Speaker 2: I don't move a lick. I don't move a lick.
Speaker 2: And the deer is licking my ear. And the wild buck,
Speaker 2: which is like a little forkid horn, catches my wind
Speaker 2: and just flips out, and it's just like.
Speaker 3: What are you doing?
Speaker 2: Man? And the buck took about four or five steps
Speaker 2: towards me, and then the buck spooks and then me
Speaker 2: and and uh uh, shoot, what do we call him?
Speaker 1: We had? That was road runner?
Speaker 2: Me and road Runner walked back to the house.
Speaker 1: Story, you've got like that?
Speaker 2: The deer, I mean, I knew what it would do
Speaker 2: when it caught my wind. The deer walked up, but
Speaker 2: I just never moved and I got we've got videos
Speaker 2: of these deer.
Speaker 1: But I wonder what year buck would have thought about
Speaker 1: what your deer would have thought if you'd shot that deer.
Speaker 1: Probably thought nothing of it.
Speaker 2: Man, it just doesn't have the frontal cortex to be
Speaker 2: able to process abstract thought like that dude just shot
Speaker 2: by buddy.
Speaker 1: Imagine somebody stand watching you walked back.
Speaker 7: That's a jen a trail camera.
Speaker 2: What if I have been on your trail camera walking? No,
Speaker 2: so to finish the stop me someone?
Speaker 3: Uh no, we want to hear about that. I said,
Speaker 3: the paper.
Speaker 1: Trail, I said.
Speaker 2: The game warden said to me, we got to have
Speaker 2: a paper trail for this, mister nukelem uh was somebody
Speaker 2: my my buck gets loose because he's been I saved
Speaker 2: his life by opening the door and shutting it on
Speaker 2: this pit bull. The buck is gone for like a week.
Speaker 2: I told this story on the Badory podcast. One day,
Speaker 2: I come home, Misty comes home and she had seen
Speaker 2: blue lights.
Speaker 1: Up at the front of the road again, and and
Speaker 1: she comes.
Speaker 2: She comes home and the phone rings and it's our neighbor.
Speaker 2: And he goes, Clay, they're after you, man, They're after you.
Speaker 1: He said.
Speaker 2: The game Warden came by here and said, does anybody
Speaker 2: on this road own a deer? And my neighbor goes, no,
Speaker 2: I've never heard.
Speaker 1: Of anybody having a deer around here. And he picks
Speaker 1: up the phone.
Speaker 2: He goes Clay there after you, and he says, he says,
Speaker 2: your buck is hurt. And he names the person, this
Speaker 2: elderly gentleman on the road, and I go, oh no,
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm just like, think my life's over. I
Speaker 2: get in the truck, drive down there to where the
Speaker 2: game boardings at and I'm like, this is my deer?
Speaker 1: What's going on? And he didn't hurt the neighbor.
Speaker 2: But he walked up to my neighbor while he was
Speaker 2: doing chores outside and just started pushing around.
Speaker 1: On him, just just messing with him.
Speaker 2: And the neighbor obviously is like what is going on?
Speaker 2: They call the game and fish game and fish comes out.
Speaker 2: I go turn myself in. You know, I'm like, kids,
Speaker 2: is great being your dad. I'll write you from prison
Speaker 2: and the game. I tell the game ord exactly what happens.
Speaker 2: You know, this deer I had it had to let
Speaker 2: it go the dog and and he he gave me
Speaker 2: a warning. Citation for releasing captive wildlife. No jail time,
Speaker 2: no jail time.
Speaker 1: That's the story. You can't own a deer for six months.
Speaker 2: So the best, the best photo of the nukes that
Speaker 2: we have is my son Epherd when he was three,
Speaker 2: and he's sitting on a rock wall, ball in his
Speaker 2: eyes out. It's like a cell phone photo. He could tell.
Speaker 2: He's just like he's balling his eyes out and there's
Speaker 2: a half eaten apple on the wall beside him with
Speaker 2: a deer eating it. And I came outside because Shepherd
Speaker 2: was crying, and I said, what's wrong, Son? And he said,
Speaker 2: road rudder took my apple. That deer had walked out
Speaker 2: and stole his apple. It's the best picture in the world.
Speaker 1: It's Shepherd. Yeah, guy wrote in this is interesting, this
Speaker 1: is interesting deal. He's first off, he says he's dusting
Speaker 1: off everything he knows about proper grammar so that his
Speaker 1: email doesn't wind up on a T shirt of ours,
Speaker 1: which the thing we've had appen for exemplary emails. He's
Speaker 1: he's gotten tuned down to a program in the Netherlands
Speaker 1: called visder bell put that make that sound Dutch, but
Speaker 1: here Dutch vist bell. It means fish door bell. So
Speaker 1: they have a river. They have a nagamous fish in
Speaker 1: the Netherlands, and they have a river with a lock
Speaker 1: system on it. And they've found that anagamous fish are
Speaker 1: susceptible to predation when they get up to the lock
Speaker 1: system and they're stuck there waiting to get through. So
Speaker 1: they have underwater cameras and volunteers who watch to see
Speaker 1: when fish show up. And basically they press a doorbell
Speaker 1: for the fish. They press a doorbell and then the
Speaker 1: guy that and when a fish shows up needs to
Speaker 1: get through the under the volunteer hits a doorbell, I think,
Speaker 1: ding the lock. The guy that controls the lock then
Speaker 1: the cracks it open so the fish can slip through.
Speaker 1: You can watch it all on live stream. That's cool.
Speaker 10: Uh.
Speaker 1: Here's a piece from the news from the Northern Ontania.
Speaker 1: What is this from Northern Ontario CETV news. A Northern
Speaker 1: Ontario man has been banned from license hunting and fined
Speaker 1: five thousand dollars. So this is whatever this is is
Speaker 1: much worse than shooting a husky. After pleading guilty to
Speaker 1: having more than six times the legal limit of grouse
Speaker 1: and obstructing conservation officers. This guy had ninety one grouse,
Speaker 1: which is seventy six over the legal limit of fifteen.
Speaker 1: This is in Ontario. He didn't want to let the
Speaker 1: game wardens into his house. When they finally got in,
Speaker 1: they found two large boxes of frozen grouse hidden in
Speaker 1: the shower. So there's a heavy duty fine, way worse
Speaker 1: shooting puppies. This is one that blows your mind. Two
Speaker 1: guys from Colorado went to the Maynistee River in Michigan.
Speaker 1: So they come allway from Colorado to the Manistee River
Speaker 1: and they get caught with four hundred and sixty three
Speaker 1: pounds of illegally caught salmon. You know what they're fine
Speaker 1: is this is just like, it's just interesting how this
Speaker 1: stuff plays out. So these guys have hundreds of illegally
Speaker 1: caught salmon thousand bucks apiece.
Speaker 3: Dany Wow, not per fish, per person.
Speaker 1: Per yeah, a thousand bucks. No, not a thousand bucks
Speaker 1: per fish. Oh so this guy shoes too many grouse?
Speaker 1: Five thousand What else happened to him?
Speaker 3: He lost his hunting privileges for life. They don't mess
Speaker 3: around in Canada.
Speaker 1: These dudes kill. It's a big there's a picture of
Speaker 1: the confiscated fish. Just a big pickup truck load of
Speaker 1: king salmon heads and bags of flays uh thousand bucks apiece.
Speaker 1: Great inconsistent.
Speaker 3: I would have at least taken away their fishing privileges
Speaker 3: on the Mannassee River for six months, not the minimal clay.
Speaker 3: I like those deer stories. I think you should do
Speaker 3: a whole podcast about deer stories on bear Grease. That's
Speaker 3: a good deer stories, Yeah, because I bet you could
Speaker 3: interview some other fellas down there in Arkansas who also
Speaker 3: have crazy pet deer stories, because any there's nobody has
Speaker 3: bad pet wild animal stories like Steve's Coo stories. Was
Speaker 3: it the fact that it became illegal or did you
Speaker 3: just grow out of it that made you quit?
Speaker 2: So basically, my my buck, my buck got dangerous.
Speaker 1: You know, the bucks get dangerous. Sure, and so that
Speaker 1: spooked me a little bit.
Speaker 2: As the kids got older, and when that dog got
Speaker 2: in there, Like there was just complications with having a deer,
Speaker 2: and there're a lot of work, I mean an incredible
Speaker 2: amount of work to bottle feed, you know, a very
Speaker 2: young deer.
Speaker 1: I mean it's like having a newborn baby.
Speaker 2: You're waking up for multiple weeks, You're waking up every
Speaker 2: four hours to go bottle feed that thing. So it's
Speaker 2: a legitimate tax on your life to raise one successfully.
Speaker 2: And I think we just kind of had our feel
Speaker 2: of it, and you know, what were you.
Speaker 1: Hoping to get out of it? Do you'd raise a
Speaker 1: giant buck and then pretend you got it?
Speaker 6: No.
Speaker 2: I remember, Steve, when I was a young kid, they
Speaker 2: took us on a field trip to the Walston Farm
Speaker 2: way out in the Washington Mountains in Arkansas, and everybody
Speaker 2: where I'm from will know who I'm talking about. They
Speaker 2: had this like just a neat family in this neat farm,
Speaker 2: and I remember they had they had deer there just
Speaker 2: walking around and I was just a little kid that
Speaker 2: had my dad was a hunter, and I was intrigued
Speaker 2: by it, and I was just like, this is living.
Speaker 1: That's just kind of what I thought to have a
Speaker 1: pet deer.
Speaker 2: And so I always wanted that for my kids, and
Speaker 2: so I just set out to We're gonna We're gonna
Speaker 2: be people that have pet deer and or raise our
Speaker 2: kids having pet deer.
Speaker 1: Do you know during the American Revolution, there was an
Speaker 1: American there was an American officer who had a pet
Speaker 1: buck and one day he leaned over to put on
Speaker 1: his pants and the pet buck charged him and ran
Speaker 1: a time through his artery. Really is for moral artery,
Speaker 1: and the guy bled out right on the floor. An
Speaker 1: officer in the an American officer in the Revolution.
Speaker 2: Wow, it's not surprising. They're real dangerous and during the run,
Speaker 2: even when they're young.
Speaker 3: So if it's illegal to release captive wildlife, how did
Speaker 3: you get rid of the pet deer you had?
Speaker 1: Well, you're honest, I don't really want to talk about that.
Speaker 3: No, I had to.
Speaker 2: It was it probably was illegal. I wouldn't have even
Speaker 2: that wouldn't have even entered my mind at the time.
Speaker 3: But you just release them.
Speaker 1: I did. I did.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, no, I had to put down the buck,
Speaker 2: the buck that roughed up mister Mitchell. I had to
Speaker 2: put it down, but I had it processed, gave it away. Yeah,
Speaker 2: because it's hard to eat your.
Speaker 1: And and I mean the story of it coming back
Speaker 1: was a week.
Speaker 2: So the game warden gives me the give gives me
Speaker 2: the deal, and he says, I say, well, what do
Speaker 2: you want me to do? And he says, if you
Speaker 2: see the buck, put it down? And I said, yes, sir.
Speaker 2: And so like a week later, I'm sitting in my
Speaker 2: office and it's like late October, and I have a
Speaker 2: big window right by my computer. Brit seen it, and
Speaker 2: I just look up and there's road runner like three
Speaker 2: feet from him, and and I, yeah, I could go
Speaker 2: into the details of.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just going. I mean, if you want the whole thing,
Speaker 1: I'll tell you this.
Speaker 2: I walk outside and he's been running wild now for
Speaker 2: like ten days, and he was he was invigorated by
Speaker 2: his by his experience.
Speaker 1: And when I walked out, he immediately.
Speaker 2: Started roughing me up like he was I'm not going
Speaker 2: to say he was attacking me, but he straight up
Speaker 2: just came and started pushing me around, pushing on. Jason
Speaker 2: Phelps here, just pushing me around. And I have a
Speaker 2: twenty two mark t Ruger pistol on mind.
Speaker 1: So he was trying to rough you up with his antlers? Yeah,
Speaker 1: oh yeah? What kind of rack was he throwing out there?
Speaker 1: He had a little forking horn rack.
Speaker 2: I still got it, uh uh. And he starts pushing
Speaker 2: me around, and the house is here, and my office
Speaker 2: is here, and I'm and no one's home, and you
Speaker 2: got a pistol and I've got a pistol, and I'm
Speaker 2: trying to figure out a way to safe way to
Speaker 2: shoot this deer in the head to put it down.
Speaker 2: And I mean, it's pushing me and I'm like just
Speaker 2: dancing around, dancing around, and it's more intense.
Speaker 1: So if I never had I've never done this. When
Speaker 1: you think of his power, He's a year and a
Speaker 1: half old at this time, yep, could you is it
Speaker 1: if you grabbed him by the antlers and you pushed
Speaker 1: him out and held him at arm's length? Is he
Speaker 1: able to overcome that?
Speaker 2: The more aggressive you get, the more aggressive he gets.
Speaker 2: And I would have said it a year and a
Speaker 2: half old and me weighing, you know, like one seventy
Speaker 2: a man of average strength, it would have been all
Speaker 2: I could do to if he had full throttle come out.
Speaker 2: I mean, it would have been all I could have
Speaker 2: done to keep him off me.
Speaker 1: But picture that, you picture like I'm saying, You've got
Speaker 1: you got his antler's wonder in each hand. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: you stiff arm him, right? Can he overcome that resistance?
Speaker 2: He wouldn't overcome it by pushing your arms in, but
Speaker 2: he would flop and flip and get spun around. And
Speaker 2: be on your back before you know, seriously, really, yeah,
Speaker 2: they're a handful.
Speaker 1: So the more they're strong, the more we.
Speaker 2: Tussled, the more intense he gets. And and and he
Speaker 2: realizes I'm fighting him back. He's just sparring me.
Speaker 1: Like at some point he's got to register the pistol. Well,
Speaker 1: he try to wrestle away from you.
Speaker 3: We already went through that part about the frontal quartex.
Speaker 2: He's not able to process abstract thought that the deer
Speaker 2: eventually gets distracted. As deer do, something happens and he
Speaker 2: I remember, he just threw up his head and looked
Speaker 2: away from me, and and there was a gap between
Speaker 2: my house and the office, and.
Speaker 1: I just Joe, Yeah, put him right down.
Speaker 2: Did you feel terrible? I mean no, I didn't feel terrible.
Speaker 2: It was it was a it was a shame that
Speaker 2: it had to end. I felt like I was doing
Speaker 2: my due duty. I mean it's like, if you play
Speaker 2: in the dirty game, you're gonna have to do dirty stuff.
Speaker 2: The game warden told me to put him down, So
Speaker 2: I put him down.
Speaker 3: It's interesting that I've been to the new com You
Speaker 3: guys raised pigs, chicken, slaughter them, eat them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you raise.
Speaker 2: It was just it was it was it was a
Speaker 2: family deal, you know, all all the kids knew this deer.
Speaker 2: And I told him exactly what happened. And uh and
Speaker 2: and it just was not an appealing idea to eat roadrunner,
Speaker 2: you know, but it was a good meat. So I
Speaker 2: did salvage the meat.
Speaker 1: Yeah, hmm, that's my story. Okay, how'd you meet Brent Reeves?
Speaker 1: Now we were fighting.
Speaker 2: Now I've known Brent for it's probably since twenty ten
Speaker 2: or so. And uh, Brent actually first called me when
Speaker 2: I was doing I had a regional magazine and a
Speaker 2: regional hunting organization called Arkansas Black Bear Association, and and
Speaker 2: Brent had reached out to me because Brent was a videographer.
Speaker 2: He was doing a lot of filming and he was like, hey,
Speaker 2: it's a guy in Arkansas film some bear hunts. I'd
Speaker 2: like to he he he offered to help me. It's like, hey,
Speaker 2: if you want, if you want somebody to film a
Speaker 2: bear hunt, I'd be willing to do it. That's that's
Speaker 2: how we became friends. And at first I brushed him off.
Speaker 2: It was just like, ah, man, thanks, I appreciate it
Speaker 2: because I was pretty tight with my in my bear
Speaker 2: hunting world still am and uh, but over you know,
Speaker 2: Brent can take over at any moment here.
Speaker 8: Yeah, it was the next year you called and said, hey,
Speaker 8: you're still interested in doing that, and because you were
Speaker 8: doing those fundraisers for the magazine, and then I can
Speaker 8: went over to West Arkansas and filmed the first hunt
Speaker 8: over there, and then it was after that it was
Speaker 8: I'd get a call, hey, man, can you go here? Yep,
Speaker 8: I can do that. And I had had a job
Speaker 8: that where I could pretty well take off when I
Speaker 8: wanted to. And what was that job? This is what
Speaker 8: I'm doing now. I worked for the federal government. But
Speaker 8: you used to be in law enforce. I'm still in
Speaker 8: I'm still in law enforce. Okay, Yeah, I can't go
Speaker 8: into the details of but it's it's with the Food
Speaker 8: and Drug Administration now. And that's a commissioned position, a
Speaker 8: law enforcement officer position.
Speaker 2: Got it, so he still has a badging a gun.
Speaker 3: Kids, listen off. If you want to have a lot
Speaker 3: of free time, good chame job, pretty flexible hours.
Speaker 1: There's a cryptic position.
Speaker 8: Yeah, that's only been for the like the last eight years,
Speaker 8: and there's there's only five of us in the state
Speaker 8: and we're mainly dealing with the tobacco laws. So's that's
Speaker 8: our concentration there. The federal it has a lot a
Speaker 8: lot to do with taxes.
Speaker 2: And you don't have to tell him what you do,
Speaker 2: but tell him what you did before. Like you're well,
Speaker 2: a little bit about your law enforcement career.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I started out as a deputy sheriff and then
Speaker 8: I went into undercover work. I ran a drug task
Speaker 8: force in southeast Arkansas had we had six counties in
Speaker 8: that district, and I was the agent in charge and
Speaker 8: had a number of undercover agents working as well. It
Speaker 8: was all undercover positions and for that period of time,
Speaker 8: our one hundred percent focus was drug investigations. And this
Speaker 8: would have been during the height of methamphetamine movement coming
Speaker 8: into that part of the world, and it was one
Speaker 8: meth lab after another. You know, Arkansas is an agriculturally
Speaker 8: driven state, that part of Arkansas, so a lot of
Speaker 8: the stuff that would have been hard to come by
Speaker 8: in urban places, like an hydrosumonia, which is you know, fertilized,
Speaker 8: it was held in humongous storage tanks on farms in
Speaker 8: remote places and easy to get to. Oh I got it,
Speaker 8: so that and you go to Walmart and get the
Speaker 8: rest of the ingredients you need to get.
Speaker 1: That was the reason that now when you go into
Speaker 1: buy science medication you had to sign for it. That
Speaker 1: was the reason. Right there. We're going to stray from
Speaker 1: the normal subject matter of the show here for a second.
Speaker 1: But to what degree do you mean to understand this?
Speaker 1: To what degree did the opioid crisis eliminate myth from
Speaker 1: the landscape.
Speaker 8: I don't know that it's eliminated it, but myth was
Speaker 8: still number one when I got out of that. Opioids
Speaker 8: was just coming on. Now by far, opioids are the
Speaker 8: most abused drug you know that you can get from
Speaker 8: the doctor's office, from the drug store.
Speaker 1: It's more abused than anything. And at that time.
Speaker 8: When I was in everybody made their own methopetomine. I mean,
Speaker 8: if we this group of folks right here, five of
Speaker 8: us would be manufacturing and the rest of them would
Speaker 8: be using it.
Speaker 1: And out of how many people, how many people we
Speaker 1: got in here?
Speaker 2: I know, but I mean, like, where is that.
Speaker 1: In that part of in that part of Arkansas?
Speaker 2: It was that bad.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it was that bad, And it was so
Speaker 1: easy to make.
Speaker 8: I mean you could get the you could get the
Speaker 8: recipes for it right off the internet. There was there
Speaker 8: was no everybody in their brother was cooking and selling men.
Speaker 1: So they were making it for just personal use.
Speaker 8: Probably no, no, they a lot of them were. You know,
Speaker 8: it's it's it's a real big, out hard algorithm to
Speaker 8: get around. Some folks manufactured it and their deal they're high,
Speaker 8: was making the best having the best methamphetamine in this area,
Speaker 8: and other folks were making it just to get the
Speaker 8: next fixed. But if they made enough, and they were friends,
Speaker 8: Me and Claire friends, okay, man, we got to find
Speaker 8: some somewhere.
Speaker 1: Well, heck, let's just make some. Then we started making it.
Speaker 8: Well, I've got a cousin that you know, he likes it,
Speaker 8: or he'll his girlfriend does it occasionally, so okay, well
Speaker 8: we'll make them some if they'll go get pills.
Speaker 1: So that that was.
Speaker 8: People started catching on to it, and then you you
Speaker 8: couldn't go to Walmart and get everything you needed. Then
Speaker 8: you had to go to one Walmart and get one thing.
Speaker 8: Then you had to go to another store and get
Speaker 8: another piece. Because people started putting it together. You know,
Speaker 8: why is this guy coming by all this siinus medicine
Speaker 8: and you know, and solvents, charcoal lighter and all the
Speaker 8: So it's not.
Speaker 2: Clear why opioids now are better than that.
Speaker 1: Is it just?
Speaker 9: Is it?
Speaker 1: I guess there's just trends inside.
Speaker 8: Of well, there are trends, and you know, some of
Speaker 8: them may be contributed to the consistency of what you
Speaker 8: could get, because obviously pharmaceutical grade narcotics are you get
Speaker 8: what you pay for. Every one of them is the same.
Speaker 8: If you're getting meth from me this week and then
Speaker 8: meth from Tony next week, you know, is a big
Speaker 8: difference in what you're and what you're getting. And now
Speaker 8: the there's hardly any manufactured here compared to what it was.
Speaker 8: It all comes out of you know, Mexico and other places.
Speaker 1: Now, do you think it was effective to go after it? Like,
Speaker 1: did you meaningfully reduce what was available? I know that, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you think so. I think so. I think.
Speaker 8: You know, we were working at that time anywhere from
Speaker 8: four to five methaphetamine labs a month, on top of
Speaker 8: undercover bides and all the other investigations we were doing
Speaker 8: for one one calendar year. Our for our budget, the
Speaker 8: state funded budget for every one dollar we spent out
Speaker 8: of the whole budget. We took three hundred dollars worth
Speaker 8: street value of drugs off the street. Wow, well it
Speaker 8: was a big deal.
Speaker 2: He's got wild stories about and he may not want
Speaker 2: to share him He probably doesn't. But of some of
Speaker 2: those busts and all the different stuff they had to do.
Speaker 1: So would you just hand off when you phone the locations?
Speaker 1: Would you guys hand it off? And then someone to
Speaker 1: go in there and tear the place apart? So am
Speaker 1: I working on the meth labs?
Speaker 10: No?
Speaker 8: We It was me and three other guys from Little
Speaker 8: South of Little Rock that were certified in dismantling methamphetamine labs.
Speaker 8: We went to DEA put on, a big class or
Speaker 8: a school in Quantico, Virginia. So we had to go
Speaker 8: and get certified and all the different hazardous materials you
Speaker 8: had to deal with, and at that time, most big
Speaker 8: urban fire departments would have a hazardous material disposal team
Speaker 8: for like working accidents on the highway or train derailments,
Speaker 8: you know, with carrying hazards materials, and.
Speaker 1: We would go.
Speaker 8: We'd have to wear SCBA's you know, suit containment suits, masks,
Speaker 8: whole bottle of wax to go in and run these
Speaker 8: warrants and rate on these raids, make the lab safe
Speaker 8: if it was in operation, because you're dealing with chemicals
Speaker 8: and things, they're all corrosive or explosive. Render it safe,
Speaker 8: and then stand by with it until a hazmat team
Speaker 8: could get there to properly dispose of it.
Speaker 1: So you had to raid it in a hazmat suit. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because you have no idea what you're interrupting or what's
Speaker 1: going on.
Speaker 8: Yeah, you never know. And you go in there and
Speaker 8: there'd be kids playing in the floor. Oh it's yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah. What was was, if you had to generalize, was
Speaker 1: resistance compared to other illicit activities. Was a resistance to
Speaker 1: arrest higher four math folk. Then people engaged in other
Speaker 1: illegal activities because of the stereotype of them being like
Speaker 1: kind of crazy and jacked up and ship you know.
Speaker 8: Just depending on the on the individual in what stage
Speaker 8: they were in. Some of them actually thought it was
Speaker 8: it was a relief and they knew they had a problem.
Speaker 8: They could see, you know, they could look at themselves
Speaker 8: every day and think, you know, hey, I lost another
Speaker 8: tooth today at work.
Speaker 1: And and then.
Speaker 8: It became a release for him now some of them. Yeah,
Speaker 8: there was one guy. I remember the Marshalls had a
Speaker 8: had a warrant for a guy in the southern end
Speaker 8: of our county or one of the counties that was
Speaker 8: in my district. So they called us. We had an
Speaker 8: SRT team and he said, what's that stand for a
Speaker 8: Special Response Team LAS of SWAT team. So and I
Speaker 8: was the commander of that. So it said, we want
Speaker 8: to use you guys going there. We're going after you know,
Speaker 8: I suspect. Ay, he's located in your county, a very
Speaker 8: rural place, he said, we're going to Our plan is
Speaker 8: to hit him. You know, you guys come up with
Speaker 8: a plan and we'll go with you. Once we get
Speaker 8: him located and get him arrested, we'll take him from there,
Speaker 8: and you know, thank you. So we go down there
Speaker 8: and we find the guy, or find where he's living
Speaker 8: during the daytime, and he's working in this garage out there.
Speaker 1: We get a positive ID on him with a spot
Speaker 1: and scope.
Speaker 8: Yeah, that's him. That's the guy we're looking for. So
Speaker 8: I said, Okay, three o'clock in the morning, we're going
Speaker 8: to hit this Hit this guy, get him arrested and
Speaker 8: get out of there, we'll catch him in the bed
Speaker 8: while he's asleep. So we deplore the team and four
Speaker 8: of the guys go creeping up to this this property
Speaker 8: and we get just like half a mile through the woods.
Speaker 8: We get up there and we can see the lights
Speaker 8: on in the garage and we think, so we'll sit
Speaker 8: there and listen a minute, and we can hear him
Speaker 8: beating and banging around, moving around in the garage. Like guy,
Speaker 8: this guy's still awake. He's just tinkering. So we go
Speaker 8: ahead and hit the garage and we hit the house
Speaker 8: and hit the garage at the same time. And my
Speaker 8: team hit the garage and that guy's in there. He's
Speaker 8: still in there, and he's painting the car with a
Speaker 8: paint brush one end of the other. We hit the door,
Speaker 8: kicked the door open. He never looked up and he
Speaker 8: just kept painting. Knocked the paint brush out of his hand,
Speaker 8: and you know, hooked him up and took him out
Speaker 8: and he never said a word. I don't know that
Speaker 8: he even knew we were there. Wow, But he had
Speaker 8: been there the whole day that there was fifty coats
Speaker 8: of paint on that car. He would just dump open
Speaker 8: another can, grab a paint brush. Really yeah. The interview,
Speaker 8: Marshall said that guy told him he had been awake
Speaker 8: for like eight days. Go fast reason they call it
Speaker 8: go fast?
Speaker 1: God? Man, Yeah, I need to get some of that
Speaker 1: for the people work here. You have to take something
Speaker 1: like I'm doing all that podcast? What's next? Because I
Speaker 1: that one nine times? Yeah? Yeah, You're dental insurance is
Speaker 1: going to go up. No, that's incredible, man, What it
Speaker 1: was strange? Did you want to get out of that
Speaker 1: pretty bad?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: It was pretty rough. You know, remarried all through it?
Speaker 8: Uh huh off and on? Uh yeah, what does that
Speaker 8: mean about sixteen years?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I had a starter wife. Oh, I got it.
Speaker 8: You know, it's it's rough on the family's it's rough.
Speaker 8: It was rough on everybody.
Speaker 1: I get it. But to explain it, how like what
Speaker 1: as well? It was?
Speaker 8: It was all encompassing. I got a high off of
Speaker 8: the work. I couldn't rest thinking. And I'll take it
Speaker 8: back to the very beginning. The first time I saw
Speaker 8: a house full of children that were in a bad
Speaker 8: way because of it, that was it just lit a
Speaker 8: fire and I couldn't rest. I thought every child should
Speaker 8: should grow up like I did, and every child should
Speaker 8: be like my children and that and have to worry
Speaker 8: about missing, you know, a cartoon on them, or not
Speaker 8: getting their favorite kool aid. Be their only worried, not
Speaker 8: if I'm going to step on a hypodermic needle in
Speaker 8: the yard, or if you know, Mama's going to wake
Speaker 8: up from whatever it is she just took, or where
Speaker 8: my next meal is coming from. And I and there
Speaker 8: was at one time I held the record for how
Speaker 8: many kids I'd taken away from people like that. And
Speaker 8: it was just horrible that the stuff that you see
Speaker 8: those kids are in and I could not rest and
Speaker 8: I neglected some of my kids for that. You know,
Speaker 8: when I should have been at home, I was. I
Speaker 8: was out working. And so it was, you know, it
Speaker 8: got it got tough. It was tough, but that that
Speaker 8: was my always my motivation. It was I couldn't rest
Speaker 8: on the laurels of you know, we got this guy
Speaker 8: that we've been after for six months, Okay, we got him,
Speaker 8: Who cares, Let's get the next one. And it didn't
Speaker 8: matter when it was, it was Christmas or whatever birthdays?
Speaker 1: That was the focus. Did you give up hunting and
Speaker 1: fishing during those years?
Speaker 8: No, we still did I still did it. I didn't
Speaker 8: have many hunting dogs during that length of time because
Speaker 8: I couldn't. It was just it didn't work. But no
Speaker 8: I did. I hunted and fish and I did that
Speaker 8: with my family. You know, that was the time that
Speaker 8: I spent with them.
Speaker 1: But you got you were in the waterfoul business for
Speaker 1: a long time. Yep.
Speaker 8: My brother and I ran a guide service for about
Speaker 8: twenty six years. And this is some of this overlap.
Speaker 8: Some of some of that time I was in patrol
Speaker 8: and in the uniform part. So but yeah, there's there
Speaker 8: was a lot of a lot of time. Yeah, we
Speaker 8: did that on the Arkansas River, Like I said, for
Speaker 8: twenty six years. We got it folks from all over
Speaker 8: the nation.
Speaker 1: Do you are you worried that Clay thinks that maybe
Speaker 1: you're an undercover game warning investigating Clay. I have never
Speaker 1: heard that story. That is news to me.
Speaker 2: Of course, he's he's always When I when I interviewed
Speaker 2: Artie Stewart, I was like, Artie and Britt have a
Speaker 2: lot in common.
Speaker 1: An undercover agent's like the best friend in the.
Speaker 2: World, always ready to go, always got an extra cash,
Speaker 2: and always missing, always missing, always wanting you to take
Speaker 2: the shot.
Speaker 1: Always wanted to video you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was my biggest saying is like, finally I
Speaker 2: was like, Brant wants to video of me everywhere I go. No, no, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's our I mean, he's in there, just still he's
Speaker 2: if he's still in he's in deep, which I'm pretty
Speaker 2: convinced he is.
Speaker 1: So tell me now get to the part about about you.
Speaker 1: Start like like, how did you guys? I remember when
Speaker 1: Klay came to me and said, I think Brent Reeves
Speaker 1: should do a show.
Speaker 2: Can I segue from Brent's That's some of the most
Speaker 2: I've ever heard Brent publicly talk about his law enforcement stuff,
Speaker 2: is it?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Absolutely?
Speaker 2: Like and so this segue, well, I'm just telling you, Brent.
Speaker 2: We talked on the phone yesterday and we're we're yeah,
Speaker 2: there's a new podcast coming out called This Country Life
Speaker 2: with Brent Reeves and if you're if you're around Brent,
Speaker 2: he does not talk about law enforcement stuff like I'm
Speaker 2: like you, Steve, I'm constantly like, tell me about this
Speaker 2: or that, and he like usually wants to get around it.
Speaker 2: And what he said to me yesterday, as he said, Clay,
Speaker 2: I spent thirty years of my life dealing with people
Speaker 2: on the worst day of their life, at their worst self,
Speaker 2: and and he said, I want this podcast to be
Speaker 2: about the good days. And so this Country Life with
Speaker 2: Ritt Reeves is gonna.
Speaker 1: Be it's about the guys that got away on that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's a it's it's uh, it's gonna be well.
Speaker 1: And I don't want to steal Brent's nunner.
Speaker 2: But but that segue into this is gonna be a lighthearted,
Speaker 2: fun short podcast. And Brent, aside from having this law
Speaker 2: enforcement career, has lived a very robust rural American life.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's a there's.
Speaker 2: A boat ramp on the Saline River at Arkansas named
Speaker 2: after Brent's dad. They squirrel hunted and had lines of
Speaker 2: cur dogs and and just anything any kind of like
Speaker 2: Southern hunting cred that you want to get, Brent Reeves
Speaker 2: has it. And Brent, of all people, and here I
Speaker 2: am talking over Brent. Brent remembers stories like nobody I've
Speaker 2: ever met like he. Every time I'm with him, he
Speaker 2: tells a story or remembers something and I go, did
Speaker 2: you just make that up?
Speaker 1: Did you?
Speaker 2: And And it's like, so this Country Life with Brent
Speaker 2: Reeves is a podcast that capitalizes on stuff that Brent's
Speaker 2: really good about. It's telling great stories, teaching country skills, yep,
Speaker 2: to teach you how to beat the systems.
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, that's a that's a throw in, just recent
Speaker 8: but it works. And it's not like getting away with
Speaker 8: it's going against like corporate thinking or doing things that
Speaker 8: give you an advantage, getting you get a better lesson
Speaker 8: out of it, you know than the and.
Speaker 1: Going along with it.
Speaker 2: Give us an example, because Clay was saying, you had
Speaker 2: something that he that you had a thing about the
Speaker 2: first time you beat the system.
Speaker 8: Yeah, that was when I was in the sixth grade.
Speaker 8: It's kind of a long story.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, do you want to I don't know if
Speaker 2: you want the whole story here because it's this is
Speaker 2: the opening podcast.
Speaker 1: Is him telling the extended version of the story. Oh,
Speaker 1: I don't know. You want to hear it, I'll tell it,
Speaker 1: tell me a truncated version. Okay.
Speaker 8: When I was in the sixth grade, you know, I
Speaker 8: like to do things, and everything that I like to
Speaker 8: do had nothing to do with school. There was other
Speaker 8: things to do, all of it outside. I grew up
Speaker 8: on a little farm and if I wanted to be
Speaker 8: in the woods. I wanted to be outside. I want
Speaker 8: to be if when I got my chores were done,
Speaker 8: I had to go. I didn't TV was not a
Speaker 8: I didn't care about watching television. So when I was
Speaker 8: in school, it wasn't that I was missing something on TV.
Speaker 8: I was missing something in the woods somewhere, or there
Speaker 8: was a pickle fish and do anything. And I had
Speaker 8: a buddy that lived in town. I rode the bus
Speaker 8: to school. His mama brought him to school and we
Speaker 8: would sit out in front. This I was in the
Speaker 8: sixth grade. We sit out in front school every morning.
Speaker 8: All the kids gathered up there. The bell would ring,
Speaker 8: all the kids would go in with the duty teacher,
Speaker 8: and there was a potlatch meal. There was two meals
Speaker 8: in Warren, Arkansas, where I.
Speaker 1: Grew the extended version.
Speaker 8: Man, Well, you got to have this context for the
Speaker 8: rest of it to make sense. And they were on
Speaker 8: each side of town, and they ran a little railroad
Speaker 8: that took lumber and wood chips from one side of
Speaker 8: the town to the other, back and forth to those
Speaker 8: to those between those meals, and it rolled right beside
Speaker 8: the elementary school, the sixth, fifth, and sixth grade school
Speaker 8: right there, forty yards from the front door. And I'm
Speaker 8: thinking that it came by nine times out of ten
Speaker 8: when the bell would ring to go into school, and
Speaker 8: it came back by fifteen to twenty minutes before school
Speaker 8: let out every day. And I'm thinking, dude, that's my
Speaker 8: ticket right there. I get somebody to go with me,
Speaker 8: and my friend would go with me, and he did,
Speaker 8: and we jumped that train and we rode it to
Speaker 8: the middle of the town. After all the kids went in.
Speaker 8: We hoboed from one end of the warren to the
Speaker 8: middle and got out and knocked around all day, then
Speaker 8: got back on it when it was climbed back up
Speaker 8: on them the depot. They cranked that train up, took
Speaker 8: it back across town, and we bailed off of it
Speaker 8: at the school fifteen minutes before before the bell rings.
Speaker 8: We hid in the bushes and the bell ring and
Speaker 8: all the kids come out and we just jumped in
Speaker 8: there with them, and I walked up on that school
Speaker 8: bus like I had the title to it. He got
Speaker 8: in the carline to go home, and we beat the
Speaker 8: system and.
Speaker 1: We never got caught. We walked all over town and nobody,
Speaker 1: I mean we're seeing people. This is a town of mine.
Speaker 2: Lucky Strike cigarettes out of a vending machine, fifty cents
Speaker 2: a pack.
Speaker 1: I remember those that they always had that something like
Speaker 1: clear handle. Yep. I know. I was never a smoker,
Speaker 1: but you can just be able to walk up, yeah,
Speaker 1: instead of getting bury meat and spin out cigarette cigarettes. Yeah.
Speaker 8: Yeah, So we beat the system. My mother and they
Speaker 8: never knew about it. I told him about it. My
Speaker 8: mama didn't believe me. She said, you did not do that.
Speaker 1: You tried to tell it, tried to Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: this is I'm grown. She's like, you didn't do that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I did.
Speaker 8: And so in my buddy, I don't name him in
Speaker 8: the story, but he went there. We were both involved
Speaker 8: in what's coincidental about it? We both we ran in
Speaker 8: separate crowds after that as we as we grew up,
Speaker 8: and we both became involved in law enforcement, me on
Speaker 8: the badge toting hen and him on the other end
Speaker 8: of it. So, oh he got involved in the arts. Yeah,
Speaker 8: he got involved on the other side. So I've always
Speaker 8: thought about that up until the sixth grade. We were
Speaker 8: the he got he got arrested.
Speaker 1: He became a criminal.
Speaker 8: Oh yeah, criminal, Yeah, yeah, I think he's squared away now.
Speaker 8: But what kind of crime did you get into? Oh,
Speaker 8: it's just you know, drugs and drinking and all all
Speaker 8: of the sort that you love. I think he's doing
Speaker 8: fine now.
Speaker 3: So so I was just going to ask what this
Speaker 3: takeaway or the skill is that we learn from jumping
Speaker 3: the train.
Speaker 1: That's a prelude, Well we beat the system.
Speaker 2: Well, let me explain this. I'll answer your question. So
Speaker 2: in the podcast, you're going to hear the stories that
Speaker 2: you need to hear. Yeah, Brent's gonna teach you the
Speaker 2: country skills that you need to know to beat the system.
Speaker 2: So every episode you're going to hear some great funny story,
Speaker 2: like a five or six minute story, and then he's
Speaker 2: going to talk about a country skill for instance, Like
Speaker 2: there's one of the episodes is how to train a
Speaker 2: squirrel dog. One of the episodes is how to run
Speaker 2: trot line. One of the episodes is.
Speaker 1: What does a what does?
Speaker 2: What do you need to carry in your pockets if
Speaker 2: you're a countryman? One of one of the episodes might
Speaker 2: be about how to buy a truck?
Speaker 1: And and and there at what point, I don't know
Speaker 1: if you guys are doing this one or not we
Speaker 1: talked about it is how to know when it's okay
Speaker 1: to bring your own dog hunting and when you go
Speaker 1: duck hunt with other people and you're not sure of
Speaker 1: your duck calling skills, how do you know what it's
Speaker 1: okay to blow your duck call?
Speaker 2: So one of the episodes is du camp Etiquette. So
Speaker 2: it's it's fun, it's a it's a it's a very fun,
Speaker 2: you know, Jerry Kloer esque, but also gonna teach you
Speaker 2: something fun podcast and it's and it's gonna be I
Speaker 2: think I can say this. It's gonna be on the
Speaker 2: Bear Grease feed. So if if you if you subscribe
Speaker 2: to the bear Grease podcast, They're now going to be
Speaker 2: two drops per week on the bear Grease podcast. Bear
Speaker 2: is going to come out and the Bear Grease Render,
Speaker 2: which brand is on most of the time. And then
Speaker 2: This Country Life with Brent Reeves. So you find This
Speaker 2: Country Life with Brent Reeves by going to Bear Grease.
Speaker 1: The same way that the Trivia show runs on the
Speaker 1: Mediator podcast feed. Yeah, So what would really be great
Speaker 1: is if picture that This Country Life starts outperforming Bear Grease,
Speaker 1: does it become to this Country Life feet.
Speaker 2: Hey, I believe this could happen. Man, people are gonna
Speaker 2: love Brent's podcast.
Speaker 1: I think so. I think they're going to. I think
Speaker 1: we need to be prepared for change the name of
Speaker 1: that feet.
Speaker 2: I'll be wearing that this country life hat, this country patch.
Speaker 2: Now it's it's kind of a perfect story too, because
Speaker 2: I would say that if anybody, I mean, people might
Speaker 2: have a lot of criticisms of the Bear Grease podcast,
Speaker 2: but one of them could be that it was just
Speaker 2: kind of like a heavy listen, like you got to
Speaker 2: pay attention.
Speaker 1: It's not like easy listening.
Speaker 2: It's you know, we're usually telling some in depth story
Speaker 2: and if you miss half of it, you don't know
Speaker 2: what's going on. Like now what it's it's it's it's
Speaker 2: like a it's like a robust chunk and it's and
Speaker 2: it's longer. Bear Gree's podcast. Is This Country Life with
Speaker 2: Brent Reeves is gonna be like twenty minutes long?
Speaker 1: Yeah, fifty. It's just gonna be fun.
Speaker 2: So it's kind of the but it's still gonna be
Speaker 2: in the vein of rural American life.
Speaker 1: When does it launch a twenty first Tony, can you
Speaker 1: tell me why I'm Uh, can you tell me about
Speaker 1: why you think I'm wrong about how mule you're cooler
Speaker 1: in white tails?
Speaker 7: H sure, I think and we you know, we were
Speaker 7: talking about this before we started recording. But I think
Speaker 7: you look at them in a certain way because where
Speaker 7: you live and where you hunt. No, no, all right,
Speaker 7: why don't you tell me why you said better first?
Speaker 1: No, Tony, go just ignore his Well they're anyway. No, okay,
Speaker 1: I won't go. No, I want you to.
Speaker 2: I can't even really, I mean, Tony, you can knock
Speaker 2: this out of the park.
Speaker 1: They're just more like more mysterious, Okay. They they drift
Speaker 1: around and show up places. They have a hot, greater
Speaker 1: tendency to be migratory. They're they're a lot of them
Speaker 1: are gonna go and never be glimpsed and never like
Speaker 1: owned by anybody. They're harder to lay a hand on,
Speaker 1: and they're harder to buy. Meaning when I see a
Speaker 1: true when I see a truly giant white tail rack, okay,
Speaker 1: hanging in you know wherever, hanging in some guy's house
Speaker 1: that I don't know, well, I see a big old
Speaker 1: white tail rack. In my head, I'm always thinking, Oh,
Speaker 1: don't even ask, right, okay, because it's like it came
Speaker 1: off some high fence deal whatever whatever, So you assume
Speaker 1: the worst when you see it is usually the case. Yeah,
Speaker 1: when I see a giant when I see like a
Speaker 1: freaking giant mule deer rack, and you ask, there's a
Speaker 1: really good chance it was a really good chance that
Speaker 1: it came off some crazy chunk of BLM ground somewhere
Speaker 1: or something. You know, It's like, it's just there's a
Speaker 1: greater chance that it was that it stayed free. Okay,
Speaker 1: I have, I have gone, I'm about done. I have
Speaker 1: in my house on display. Well, I have in my
Speaker 1: house on display a number of what I regard to
Speaker 1: be like pretty nice mule deer. Every one of those
Speaker 1: came off public land. Okay. Uh And and people could
Speaker 1: probably assume that that was the case. So I'm not
Speaker 1: saying anything bad about white tails. I'm just saying that's
Speaker 1: why I like them more. It doesn't mean that that
Speaker 1: I that they're not good, But I'm saying, like you
Speaker 1: can love two things, right, one's a ninety nine and
Speaker 1: one's one hundred or whatever on a scale of one
Speaker 1: to one hundred. That's why they're higher. Because they're wild
Speaker 1: and unknowable and little touchy.
Speaker 7: I would say that you might be like twenty percent right, Okay,
Speaker 7: So I look at that and I go and listen.
Speaker 7: I'll preface this by saying, if you were to say, Tony,
Speaker 7: if you're gonna go have a week of fun hunting,
Speaker 7: what would you pick? I'd go spot in stock meal
Speaker 7: deer with my bow. Oh okay, I would huge fan.
Speaker 7: But I also look at this, and I go, when
Speaker 7: you say, meal deer are this?
Speaker 1: They're wild?
Speaker 7: And I go to my buddy's house and Aspen and
Speaker 7: I see giant meal deer feet in his backyard.
Speaker 1: I go, well, not those, okay, But listen, a turkey
Speaker 1: once beat up my dog in my yard. Yeah, does
Speaker 1: that change how I think about turkeys and turkey hunting?
Speaker 1: There's always a there's always there's always the mildier land
Speaker 1: in someone's ear.
Speaker 7: It's not like it's that that uncommon. And it's also
Speaker 7: I look at it and go, Okay. You can say
Speaker 7: you've got a trophy room full of public land meal deer,
Speaker 7: I have a trophy l in it. Or I have
Speaker 7: a trophy room full of public land white tails, Like
Speaker 7: what does that matter? Like there's still asked there, like
Speaker 7: the high fence thing exists in white tails, but so
Speaker 7: does the other end of it. Dude, Okay, the mule deer, Okay,
Speaker 7: let me say it this way. The mule deer just
Speaker 7: generally staying there more wild, all right. But your hunt
Speaker 7: on blm land somewhere is that the same as a
Speaker 7: private ranch hunt somewhere else for meal deer.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't understand the question. Are they
Speaker 1: Is it the same hunt? Is it as easy? Is
Speaker 1: it as hard?
Speaker 7: Because what I think you're doing is you're lumping white
Speaker 7: tails sort sort of in a negative way.
Speaker 1: But I'm like, I'm not No, No, I was. I
Speaker 1: didn't talk about what I was talking about why I
Speaker 1: like Mulder? No, I know, but the reasons you list.
Speaker 1: So if I talk about why I like my wife,
Speaker 1: are you like, man, why are you so hard on
Speaker 1: my wife? No? I'm like, no, I don't know. But
Speaker 1: if you what was the original statement, not.
Speaker 3: About that giant white tail on the dude's wall.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And if you said coming down to I was
Speaker 1: at a friend's house and there's like this freaking giant.
Speaker 1: He's got a giant It's not even it's like a
Speaker 1: giant Whitetail Mount and you look at you, there's no way,
Speaker 1: there's no way, there's no way, and sure enough is
Speaker 1: bought from one of them places in Pennsylvania.
Speaker 2: Well, what about the fact that there are exponentially more
Speaker 2: white tails and more white tail hunters than mule deer.
Speaker 2: So for sure there's gonna be some apples inside of
Speaker 2: that crate that are not the pristine, romantic, best way,
Speaker 2: best practice way we want to kill them, And that's
Speaker 2: not the white tail's fault, it's just the fault that
Speaker 2: people have. Well, white tails range is so much bigger,
Speaker 2: there's been so much more biologically successful, There's been so
Speaker 2: much culture built around them.
Speaker 1: I mean, the things that you hate about white tails
Speaker 1: are because they're great.
Speaker 2: I mean, the reason guys have high fence operations and
Speaker 2: dedicate their lives to growing big deer is because of
Speaker 2: the wild deer that Tony hunts on public land. And
Speaker 2: when the guy killed one and they wrote about it
Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety two at North American white Tail, the
Speaker 2: world went crazy and we're living off of that vibe
Speaker 2: and so people cheated the system.
Speaker 1: And so, I mean, white tails are easier to hack.
Speaker 1: Like we know this.
Speaker 7: We know how to make big white tails, and that's
Speaker 7: like an undeniable part of the hunting industry. But I
Speaker 7: just don't like the broad statement of being like that.
Speaker 7: And people do this to me all the time. They're like,
Speaker 7: that's white tail hunt. You go sit on a food plot,
Speaker 7: you name your bucks, and I'm like, there's so many
Speaker 7: different ways to do this. And you know, like somebody
Speaker 7: who's in Southern II where they have a thousand acres
Speaker 7: and they know how to raise there and they've hacked
Speaker 7: it and they're they're producing two hundred inch year every year.
Speaker 7: That's not the same white tail you're hunting when you
Speaker 7: go to the up and you try to bow hunt
Speaker 7: one up there with a low deer density, Right, it's
Speaker 7: a different hunt. That's what I met with a meal
Speaker 7: deer thing. I've hunted them, you know, not nearly as
Speaker 7: much as a lot of people here, but I've hunted
Speaker 7: them quite a bit, and that it's varied a lot.
Speaker 7: You know, like it's felt amazing and like the breaky country,
Speaker 7: like that's one of my favorite things to do. But
Speaker 7: there's different kind of meal deer hunts than that. You know,
Speaker 7: then I could do it yourself. Public land white til hunt.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: Oh, there's plenty of giant box to get shot underneath
Speaker 3: a pivot.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 7: Yeah, a lot of alfalfa field bucks. So I just
Speaker 7: don't like the generalization out here.
Speaker 1: Let me let me let me blow your mind then, please.
Speaker 1: I love muskrats. I like beaver's better than muskrats. Okay,
Speaker 1: I like otters better than beavers. Now it's some muskrat.
Speaker 1: It's just like it's it's it's always like this. Like ducks,
Speaker 1: I like big fat mallards better than some other duck,
Speaker 1: but I like wood ducks most of all. This isn't
Speaker 1: the hack on other things.
Speaker 2: I get that, and your your your story about mule
Speaker 2: deer is compelling. I mean, like, I get what you're saying,
Speaker 2: but I mean what we're we're arguing about something that's
Speaker 2: silly to argue about, like the people that turn this
Speaker 2: into a big thing about Oh, Ronella said this about
Speaker 2: white tails. I mean, it's fun to debate it, but
Speaker 2: I mean, really, you're just telling us what you love,
Speaker 2: and Tony's telling you what he loves.
Speaker 1: Yeah, let me let me distial it down more. When
Speaker 1: I see a big old hue, huge mild your mount,
Speaker 1: I feel like I just know, I know I'm looking
Speaker 1: at a more interesting story. The odds are I'm looking
Speaker 1: at a more interesting story than when I see a big,
Speaker 1: huge way to I think it goes back to numbers.
Speaker 2: Though there are let's say, there are a million white
Speaker 2: tail mounts of Giant two hundred engineer in this country,
Speaker 2: and there are let's say one hundred thousand, one hundred
Speaker 2: thousand milder amounts, And again it goes back to the
Speaker 2: to the numbers thing.
Speaker 1: I see what you're saying in your right I'm talking
Speaker 1: about percentages, not total numbers. Well, but I think you're right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you see a big mulder like it was, it
Speaker 2: wasn't a high fence milder. That's your point for me,
Speaker 2: and that's good.
Speaker 1: I mean, I like them both. Conversation Jason Phelps. Jason
Speaker 1: Phelps once told me he will Jason Phelps has vowed
Speaker 1: not to shoot a white tail. I did kill them
Speaker 1: last year, and I absolutely love it.
Speaker 6: But I'm Steve on this one, and not necessarily because
Speaker 6: of ones better than the other. I think when like
Speaker 6: when we're out there doing it, like the boxes that
Speaker 6: you get to check, the adventure most likely is going
Speaker 6: to go to meal deer. Every time you're gonna the
Speaker 6: places that you're gonna go chase these things. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 6: we've hunted them in the breaks, we've hut them down
Speaker 6: in the Bilm flats, but I can't go chase a
Speaker 6: white tail at the top of a mountain above tree line,
Speaker 6: you know. Just most of the time, I think meal
Speaker 6: deer just like checks those boxes for me for that
Speaker 6: adventure that you're looking for and hunt.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 6: I love sitting in a tree stand in Kansas just
Speaker 6: as much, you know, not just as much, but it's
Speaker 6: still fun. It's still something I like to do, but
Speaker 6: it's not the work that goes And this is where
Speaker 6: it really gets like a measuring stick, Like you're not
Speaker 6: trying to say this meal deer was way harder to kill,
Speaker 6: and not everybody could do it because I had to
Speaker 6: hike six miles up. But I think some of that
Speaker 6: adds into it, Like you feel more accomplished when you
Speaker 6: can go into meal deer country sometimes and do this
Speaker 6: versus that's a physical exertion, versus the scouting that it took,
Speaker 6: the trail cam pictures that you had to take to
Speaker 6: like put the plan together for this big white tail
Speaker 6: so I think growing up out West, it's a lot
Speaker 6: of that, like checking the box, adventure difficulties.
Speaker 2: See, it's all about mind frame and worldview. Because to
Speaker 2: me and Tony, setting in a tree stand for four
Speaker 2: days daylight, tail dark and killing the big buck is
Speaker 2: the same boxes checked is going into some remote canyon,
Speaker 2: and it's just different. It's the same buzz, it's the
Speaker 2: same you know, you'd say adventure and then this one
Speaker 2: you might say strategy and chess match, and I mean it's.
Speaker 1: Just kind of your worldview and I have to throw
Speaker 1: into there's a personal experienced component of this that's very impressure.
Speaker 1: I grew up only hunting white tails. That was the
Speaker 1: only we had one big game animal. I mean, you
Speaker 1: could go north of us and draw bear tag. We
Speaker 1: had one big game animal all through growing up, all
Speaker 1: big game focus was on hunting white tails. So to
Speaker 1: move away in your twenties and also here's this whole
Speaker 1: other thing, I think it's just a completely different system. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was, you know, a mild active it was like
Speaker 1: an exotic, a mild act of rebellion. It was just different.
Speaker 1: But now I've spent more of my life, you know,
Speaker 1: at this point I spent more of my life focused
Speaker 1: more on Mulder than the white Tails. And now I'm
Speaker 1: starting to get nostalgic and wanted to go and sit
Speaker 1: in the tree all the time. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Wait till you get yourself a little twenty acre chunk
Speaker 3: and you start thinking about making some habitat back there
Speaker 3: for those white tails, Buddy, you're gonna get some nostalgia.
Speaker 1: Put some sale cams out. When I was a kid,
Speaker 1: making habitat was dumping carrots. That was habitat improvement. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Oh, your Milder, I love it. I mean what you
Speaker 2: said about Mulder. I've never killed a Mulder. I've never
Speaker 2: never hunted a Milder. But yeah, I love what you're
Speaker 2: saying there. But I also love what Tony said. I mean,
Speaker 2: just it's just different. It's not a legitimate argument. It's like,
Speaker 2: you know, there's no argument.
Speaker 4: I disagree. Plant your flag. Jordan Giannis team mule Deer,
Speaker 4: which definitely Muder.
Speaker 1: Your team Mulder.
Speaker 9: Oh yeah, I think honestly, I'm just team big Buck too,
Speaker 9: because they're hard to kill.
Speaker 1: Man, Jordan's killed some giant Mulder, haven't you.
Speaker 9: A couple of big ones? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, what's your giant Milder. You're killing secret? Jordan?
Speaker 9: Uh, I don't know if there's a secret. I think
Speaker 9: it's just uh not quitting, just like keep going.
Speaker 2: I don't know, haven't you killed?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 4: That was in Nebraska. Yeah, yep, that was in Nebraska.
Speaker 9: And that was like a I mean, I've never seen
Speaker 9: one like that ever before then, and I haven't seen
Speaker 9: one since. So that was definitely kind of a wild card.
Speaker 1: But we call that taking the cream off the top.
Speaker 9: Yeah, taking advantage of a situation, I guess, yeah, or yeah, opportunity.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, do.
Speaker 3: You ever talk about mule deer tactics in your new podcast? Jordan, No,
Speaker 3: because we're.
Speaker 1: All about the gear Talk, just about the gear, talk
Speaker 1: about your show, Jordan. Yeah, so yeah, some guy you
Speaker 1: partnered with.
Speaker 9: The Johanni Yeah, Yanni and I are partnered up on
Speaker 9: the Gear Talk podcast and talking about gear, doing deep
Speaker 9: dives into lamin it's and you know, breatheabowlel of whatever clothing,
Speaker 9: talking about boots and all kinds of stuff. So hopefully
Speaker 9: just to educate consumers on when they decide to buy
Speaker 9: a piece of gear, they have a place to go
Speaker 9: look at and listen to what they should look at
Speaker 9: when they're buying something.
Speaker 2: So yeah, and y'all talk about Mulder because I've heard
Speaker 2: your Mulder story told on there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, we definitely's right because every week I
Speaker 3: asked Jordan what she's been up to, and then she
Speaker 3: tells me she's been scouting for mule Deer, doing whatever
Speaker 3: she's been doing.
Speaker 9: Yeah, it's true.
Speaker 1: Tell me Annie, Joannie.
Speaker 3: I couldn't have said it any better. But in the end, Yeah,
Speaker 3: don't feel like you're getting sold something. You need to
Speaker 3: look at it as though you're learning about When I
Speaker 3: had to make a sort of a PSA, Yeah, it
Speaker 3: wasn't quite a PSA, but it just had I had
Speaker 3: to get off my chests i'd read I'd been reading
Speaker 3: too many comments, too many people thinking like I was
Speaker 3: selling them something, or Jordan and I were selling them stuff.
Speaker 3: And I want everybody to know that it's more important
Speaker 3: to me that you get out in there and go
Speaker 3: hunting versus going buy new gear. If it comes down
Speaker 3: to that, you spending money on gas and ammos, you
Speaker 3: can actually be in the field hunting versus buying a
Speaker 3: new jacket. Do the former, not the latter, right, But
Speaker 3: when you are ready to go buy a new jacket. Hopefully,
Speaker 3: when Jordan and I do a nice review of five
Speaker 3: different soft shells, you can go, oh, I listened to that,
Speaker 3: and now I know what I'm looking for it. Maybe
Speaker 3: you don't even buy one of those, but you'll know
Speaker 3: that you might be looking when you pick up the jacket.
Speaker 3: You're gonna be thinking about air permeability, whether or not
Speaker 3: it pit zips, how well it fit, you know, if
Speaker 3: it runs large, runs small, price point, whatever it might be.
Speaker 3: But yeah, we hope to just educate everybody on their
Speaker 3: gear or their future gear buying, and and hopefully also
Speaker 3: educate you how you use the gear in the field
Speaker 3: and what you told along with you, Yeah, what you
Speaker 3: told a long as far as gear goes, Oh yeah,
Speaker 3: oh yeah, what to grab or not to grab?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah. We've already done a couple of pack dump episodes
Speaker 3: talk about what was in Jordan's bear pack when she's
Speaker 3: going bear hunting. My turkey Vest did a pack dump
Speaker 3: on that.
Speaker 2: We talk with people in the industry that are making
Speaker 2: boots and making jackets and kind of educating people on
Speaker 2: how stuff happens.
Speaker 3: That's right, that's right. We recently did a podcast of
Speaker 3: Taylor Chamberlain, who's shot I think more dear than anybody else.
Speaker 3: I know. We talked all about all the different broadheads
Speaker 3: he's tried and the results that he's seen with different broadheads.
Speaker 1: That's a downtown deer hunting guy or no, that's right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's killed a lot of deer to almost so
Speaker 3: many that he doesn't like to say the numbers because
Speaker 3: it kind of makes people a little sick when they
Speaker 3: think about people killing that many animals.
Speaker 1: But he kills them all downtown like nuisance deer.
Speaker 3: Yeah, one percent.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's why he kills so many.
Speaker 3: Sometimes three and four to sit and I don't want
Speaker 3: to like applaud you know, this sort of like mass killing.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I mean there a lot of these suburban
Speaker 3: areas have these deer problems, and there are a lot
Speaker 3: of bull hunters that are in there trying to help
Speaker 3: it out, you know, and help out the people that
Speaker 3: don't want their fancy flowers eating up, and probably help
Speaker 3: the deer population in general, right because they're eating themselves
Speaker 3: out of house and home. But yeah, I think you
Speaker 3: can say it's in the number, is in the thousands
Speaker 3: of the deer that he's taken with an arrow, and
Speaker 3: it's very interesting to hear his perspective. My big takeaway
Speaker 3: from our interview the other day with him was that
Speaker 3: a lot of us will me personally, if I shoot
Speaker 3: any animal with an arrow and it runs one hundred
Speaker 3: yards and then tips over, I am both arms up cheering, yes, yes, yes,
Speaker 3: best day of my life. I feel great. Well for Taylor,
Speaker 3: he's only someone's backyard. He has to have that deer
Speaker 3: fall over in ten yards or fifteen yards. If it
Speaker 3: goes one hundred yards, his evening went from great to
Speaker 3: not so great because now he's got to probably talk
Speaker 3: to two or three other homeowners. There might be there
Speaker 3: might be a blood trail going across three driveways, blood
Speaker 3: trail on someone's car. Like, he's very focused on making
Speaker 3: that deer drop right then and there, and so the
Speaker 3: very interesting insights on you know, what different types of
Speaker 3: broadheads do and how they perform in that specific sitution.
Speaker 1: No, that's a really good example, man, it's a really
Speaker 1: good example. I remember thinking something similar when it's not
Speaker 1: the same, quite the same example when people argue about
Speaker 1: shot placement right on different things and calibers on different things.
Speaker 1: But remember back when all the bison migrating out of
Speaker 1: Yelso National Park used to just get shot by the
Speaker 1: Department of Livestock I do and not go to hunter tags.
Speaker 1: So here you what, however, you agree about bison management
Speaker 1: at that time, and whatever your opinions are about how
Speaker 1: that resource ought to be utilized. It's like I could
Speaker 1: point you in the direction of a couple of people
Speaker 1: there really know a lot about how to put bison
Speaker 1: on the ground and what do they do. So everybody
Speaker 1: arguing about, you know, the two times they did it
Speaker 1: and what worked out for them, I say, guys, he's
Speaker 1: done one hundreds of times.
Speaker 3: Yeah. The guys that work for for aphis for Wildlife Services, right,
Speaker 3: I mean those people literally they kill for a living
Speaker 3: and so that's their job.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: There's people that have killed thousands and thousands of hogs
Speaker 3: and you know, whatever else happens is becoming a.
Speaker 1: Nuisance like what I like to do the time I
Speaker 1: did it, but.
Speaker 3: I did it once for twelve out of fifteen last years,
Speaker 3: so I know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good point. That's a good place to
Speaker 1: go for some information. Yeah, can you can you give
Speaker 1: you a spoiler alert? What's his take on broad heads?
Speaker 1: We take a guess.
Speaker 3: I mean, I will tell you what his goal is
Speaker 3: and then you can guess as to what it is.
Speaker 3: But as he puts it, he likes to take a
Speaker 3: large chunk out of the animal.
Speaker 1: Really mm hm, so she's an expandable Nope, Oh, he
Speaker 1: doesn't fixed over expandable. Really. Oh, I thought you're gonna
Speaker 1: tell me this one of the freaking you know, like
Speaker 1: when I think of a chunk, I wasn't thinking fixed here.
Speaker 3: But it's a. It's a it's a it's not a
Speaker 3: standard fixed. It is wider, it's got very wide bleeder blades.
Speaker 3: But yeah, he's putting a big hole through these animals
Speaker 3: to stop him quickly.
Speaker 1: Hmm. I'll be tuning in. Yeah, what do you think
Speaker 1: about all that? Phelps? I don't know there.
Speaker 6: But see, you guys already like cut my legs off
Speaker 6: of my argument because I've only shot fifty, you know,
Speaker 6: or thirty thirty five and then maybe seen a hundred
Speaker 6: get killed by an arrow. So it's like, all right,
Speaker 6: you guys have already like taken the wind out of
Speaker 6: my cells. But I don't know, like having something like
Speaker 6: designing a the energy in a arrow isn't meant to
Speaker 6: necessarily drop stuff. Yeah, we've dropped elk with a shot,
Speaker 6: and we've dropped deer through the high shoulder. But it's
Speaker 6: like it's I don't know if like going that direction
Speaker 6: is better than shoot him, letting me aroun one hundred
Speaker 6: yards off because I know that's gonna die eventually. Where
Speaker 6: it's like you can have a lot of more, you know,
Speaker 6: just as many mistakes like high shoulder, neck head whatever.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Yannie didn't give me the answer to
Speaker 1: where what's his average shot distance?
Speaker 3: Oh no, I mean again, this is a very specific situation.
Speaker 3: He will not shoot past twenty yards right because he
Speaker 3: has to you know, he has to hit the ring.
Speaker 3: But his ten ring is definitely very far forward into that.
Speaker 3: He said he actually doesn't like to hit the heart
Speaker 3: itself because he feels like that deer is going to
Speaker 3: go a little ways, but basically a couple of inches
Speaker 3: above the heart where it's going to cut that main
Speaker 3: is it the order connection right to the heart and
Speaker 3: basically take out the bottom of the lungs. And also
Speaker 3: he feels like there's a lot of ligaments that connect
Speaker 3: the shoulder to the body there and if he can
Speaker 3: place it just so it gets that and maybe touches
Speaker 3: some of those where almost those front legs become immobilized.
Speaker 6: All right, Yeah, I agree with that shot placement. With
Speaker 6: a big, solid cut, that's probably the best location. You know,
Speaker 6: high shoulder with a big setup. I know I'm opening
Speaker 6: myself up for a whole lot of debate. But with
Speaker 6: a big setup elevated stand like high shoulder will work
Speaker 6: and the thing will become immobile. But there's always a
Speaker 6: chance for a mess up. So there's another wrinkle of
Speaker 6: this too.
Speaker 1: You talk. You mentioned like aphist guys that kill tons
Speaker 1: of urban deer. They shoot him in the head, but
Speaker 1: you know what they can. So there's a fair amount
Speaker 1: of you needing to be open about what your actual
Speaker 1: capabilities are, and that might change your approach where some
Speaker 1: guys like at night how I do it, And I've
Speaker 1: done it hundreds of times when I'm shooting deer out
Speaker 1: of people's yards, I hit them all three eighths of
Speaker 1: an inch down at a four o'clock pattern, down from
Speaker 1: its ear canal. And that's what I do all night long.
Speaker 1: So does that mean that when you're you know, sitting
Speaker 1: in Wisconsin an opening day and some buck comes busting
Speaker 1: out and pauses in the brush three hundred yards away
Speaker 1: that that's your best and he's like, well, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: do like the aphist guys. No, yeah, of course not.
Speaker 1: It's just different. Yeah, you're like, I'm gonna hold center
Speaker 1: mass on the ribs and hope something good happens. So
Speaker 1: it's different but still instructive. Yeah, totally. Yeah, that's good.
Speaker 1: So phelps you. You recovered from getting attacked by a scorpion.
Speaker 1: I'm good, healthy. What else going on in your world?
Speaker 6: Turkey seasons getting close, We're heading out to me and
Speaker 6: you're heading the Kansas what.
Speaker 1: In two weeks? Yeah, it's gonna be fun. Man, finish
Speaker 1: up the line one saga. When we did our line
Speaker 1: one call, I vowed to someday take the one of
Speaker 1: the people that got a line one call, and I
Speaker 1: was said, I'm gonna take him and we're gonna try
Speaker 1: to kill a turkey from that walnut stump. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't know that we're I actually gonna.
Speaker 6: Okay, we've been I've been dealing with I've been dealing
Speaker 6: with Chester and Sam a little bit, and I'm like,
Speaker 6: Steve said something in passing. I don't know, like how
Speaker 6: dead set he is, Like, cause if we just move
Speaker 6: forward twenty yards of the field, that it's gonna be
Speaker 6: a way better set up than sitting on that stone.
Speaker 1: Oh, no, visit. So so we took we did. We
Speaker 1: did calls where we went to a place and chopped
Speaker 1: down a big wallnut and chopped down some osage orange
Speaker 1: and made a line one our line one call out
Speaker 1: of that wood. And then we wanted to we were
Speaker 1: we couldn't. Like I always tell people that are going
Speaker 1: into law to go into sweep steaks and raffle law
Speaker 1: to help you out. No, just a general like if
Speaker 1: I was going to start my life over, I would
Speaker 1: spearfish instead of anything else, and my job would be
Speaker 1: I'd be in raffle and sweep steaks law. I would
Speaker 1: have gone to law school and specialize in raffle and
Speaker 1: sweepstakes law, dude, and I would tear a new one.
Speaker 1: I would tear it a new one as a lawyer.
Speaker 1: No lawyer knows anything about sweep steaks and raffle law.
Speaker 1: To the point where people tell you like, oh, I
Speaker 1: guess I don't think you can do that. You never
Speaker 1: get to get this clear answer on it. Anyways, It
Speaker 1: turns out that you can't say, for reasons I'll never understand.
Speaker 1: You can't say when we sell the line one call,
Speaker 1: we're gonna pick someone who bought a line one call
Speaker 1: randomly because they got numbers on them. We're going to
Speaker 1: generate a random number and then take that person to
Speaker 1: hunt the place where we got the trees from. Weren't
Speaker 1: allowed to say it so stupid because you got to
Speaker 1: open up a way for someone who doesn't have any
Speaker 1: jingle to participate. For instance, raffle and sweepstakes law. Every year,
Speaker 1: Yanni and I do a turkey hunt. We give away
Speaker 1: an all expense paid turkey hunt to someone in their
Speaker 1: friend and we cover airfare, lodging. We'll even get them
Speaker 1: a shotgu if they need one gear or whatever a
Speaker 1: turkey hunt. And if you donate twenty five dollars to TRCP,
Speaker 1: all the money, like, all the money goes to a
Speaker 1: nonprofit theatre conservation group, Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership. But if
Speaker 1: you're a cheap steak, a cheap skate, you can actually
Speaker 1: sign up without even donating any money to TRCP. So
Speaker 1: we got thwarted on this whole Line one deal. But anyways,
Speaker 1: how'd you end up getting the guy? Then we just
Speaker 1: picked someone and did without ever telling anybody we picked.
Speaker 1: And now we're taking this. We're taking them hunting. We're
Speaker 1: taking him to hunt the place where we got the
Speaker 1: walnut from.
Speaker 3: Which number uh well called that he had.
Speaker 1: I remember how we did.
Speaker 6: I don't even know if we did. I don't know
Speaker 6: if we even though what number he had because it
Speaker 6: was kind of random. We just picked from the original plan,
Speaker 6: the original plans.
Speaker 1: I wanted to get all them ping pong balls that
Speaker 1: got the number on him and that blowing machine, but
Speaker 1: we never were able to do any of that.
Speaker 3: Anyways, I called in and killed more than a couple
Speaker 3: of gobblers last year with that call.
Speaker 1: Dude, sounds good my call. Anyways, we're gonna take someone
Speaker 1: hunting at that spot. And I was saying that I
Speaker 1: wanted to go in there and hunt off that stump.
Speaker 1: That's thick briers there. Now, you'll be to come in there. Now,
Speaker 1: as he opened up the canopy, it's probably figure. But
Speaker 1: we're gonna go in there and take a look. It's
Speaker 1: gonna be awesome. We'll go see the stump.
Speaker 6: Yeah, he's been Randy's been sending his pictures of birds
Speaker 6: everywhere every day, So it's looking good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the thing people like to do. But man,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be good. No, I think it'll be good.
Speaker 1: It'll be good. What else going on.
Speaker 6: About it? Starting to plan fall hunts? Disneyland got in
Speaker 6: the way of Spring Bear for me this year. So
Speaker 6: I'm still recovering from that depression. Taking your kids to
Speaker 6: Disney Yeah, we're gonna do Disneyland, which got right in
Speaker 6: the middle of my at.
Speaker 1: Some point or another. It has. It happens to everybody. Man,
Speaker 1: there's nothing really due. Yeah, and then it's like, man,
Speaker 1: the big you're going to get out of it, Yanni.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm already out of it. My kids are nine
Speaker 3: and eleven.
Speaker 1: You don't have to go to Disneyland.
Speaker 6: Man, Well, when your wife tells you I tried very
Speaker 6: hard to get out.
Speaker 2: Of and I did something wrong, it's a long time
Speaker 2: before that.
Speaker 1: The good thing about it is we went and they
Speaker 1: weren't really they didn't really care, like it's never come
Speaker 1: back up again. They didn't. You didn't go, No, we
Speaker 1: took them. They didn't really care. It's never come back
Speaker 1: up again. But one thing that came funny out of
Speaker 1: it is they had a Lego Land. It was like
Speaker 1: a Lego Land by Disney. So we went to Disney
Speaker 1: and then we went to Lego Land, and one day
Speaker 1: my buddy gave me a leg of Lamb and we're
Speaker 1: eating leg of Lamb and then we're at the family
Speaker 1: dinner table talking about leg of Lamb and leg of Lamb,
Speaker 1: and my little boy at one point goes, so, what's
Speaker 1: going on with Lego Lamb? That's the best thing to
Speaker 1: come out of that whole experience. So that, but how
Speaker 1: can that ruin a whole spring bear season? Because I
Speaker 1: was my one.
Speaker 6: I had it planned thinking for some reason, we were
Speaker 6: like going to these land at different time, So planning
Speaker 6: my big hunt with lampers, We're gonna go, gonna go
Speaker 6: do all that, and it just landed wrong. And then
Speaker 6: business kind of always gets in the way, Like we
Speaker 6: don't spell, we don't sell a whole lot of we
Speaker 6: do sell predator calls, but turkey is definitely like the priority,
Speaker 6: and so the time I do have needs to be
Speaker 6: spent chasing turkeys around.
Speaker 1: Got it? Yeah, it's hard to justify it.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, So yeah, got got some new out hooters
Speaker 6: and you know, we brought out this year in new
Speaker 6: small bat calls, so kind of took a little bit
Speaker 6: of a dive back and really wanted to like hone
Speaker 6: in on the designs that we were working on make
Speaker 6: sure they were buttoned up. So brought some world champion
Speaker 6: callers on, James Harrison. James Harrison and then Steve Morgenstern
Speaker 6: kind of joined the design team with me, and so
Speaker 6: I think we knocked it out of the park with
Speaker 6: some of our small batch tricky calls we kicked out
Speaker 6: this year. So I'm excited to get out and start
Speaker 6: testing those. Well we hunt together in Kansas. What call
Speaker 6: you're gonna be using? I think we got to use
Speaker 6: the line one right as much as I'd love to
Speaker 6: use those new small batchs because they're they're dialed. That
Speaker 6: line one is real good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that and what we do? So are you and
Speaker 1: me gonna be able to hang out because we never
Speaker 1: hunt turkeys together? I think so, I think we.
Speaker 6: I mean, it's your show, but I imagine we all
Speaker 6: start together as a group, and then we'll just break
Speaker 6: apart as people start harvesting turkeys and we'll.
Speaker 1: Tell the dude that won, like you're on your own buddy. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you see that stump off of them, We'll take it,
Speaker 1: show you where you're supposed to wait. And then me
Speaker 1: and Phelips are going to going to run and gun.
Speaker 2: And I'm excited trail camera over by that stump. Gobblers
Speaker 2: coming by every.
Speaker 1: Day, and I got coming right up, I got coming
Speaker 1: right up youth, the Wisconsin youth turkey, which is the
Speaker 1: highlight of my ear, one of the highlights of my ear.
Speaker 1: And I'm in that thing now of looking at like
Speaker 1: like looking at ten day forecasts, but then at trying
Speaker 1: to extrapolate out days from that ten day forecast, which
Speaker 1: is a nerve wracking experience.
Speaker 3: Man, there's other things be spending your time on Steve.
Speaker 1: No I like, I check it every morning. I do too,
Speaker 1: taking my little girls over there to Wisconsin. Right now,
Speaker 1: the last the farthest out date I can look at
Speaker 1: is a doozy. It is a turkey killing madman. But
Speaker 1: it's by my man, if that turkey season open on
Speaker 1: that day, that'd be a good day at turkey hunting.
Speaker 1: We'll see, all right. I hope everybody out there, uh
Speaker 1: gets out and gets after some birds this spring. Check
Speaker 1: your trail.
Speaker 7: Camps, sir, on public land in Kansas.
Speaker 1: Shot you're seeing any trail KANSA on public land in Kansas.
Speaker 1: Shoot them all, everybody, thank you?
Speaker 10: Oh right A Ride on land on the seal, gray,
Speaker 10: shine like silver in the sun. Ride ride on alone,
Speaker 10: sweet heart.
Speaker 12: Were done beat this damn horse to death, taking a
Speaker 12: new one.
Speaker 3: Ride.
Speaker 12: We're done beat this damn horse today, So take a
Speaker 12: new one and ride on.