1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to 2 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 1: the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so much 3 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 1: for tuning in. Let's hear it for the man, the 4 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:37,400 Speaker 1: myth legend. Super producer, mister Max Williams. Who there it is, 5 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 1: I'm Big Bullet, You're Noel Brown, And we couldn't be 6 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 1: more excited about this incredibly cinematic and strange story we're 7 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:50,240 Speaker 1: exploring with our guests today. 8 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 2: Oh man, it's such as it's a wild ride. There's scandal. 9 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 2: It's like an episode of Bridgerton. 10 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 3: So I hear. 11 00:00:56,640 --> 00:01:00,160 Speaker 2: I've never actually seen Bridgerton, but I hear it's I 12 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 2: heard sultry and vaguely historical. But this story, yeah, that's 13 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:08,119 Speaker 2: a bus This story not as many butts, a little sultry. 14 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 3: Highly historical. 15 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 1: So let's go to our conversation with Lizzie Peabody, the 16 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:17,679 Speaker 1: host and senior producer of the Smithsonians podcast Side Door. 17 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:27,679 Speaker 1: It is a tragic thing, even though it occurred so 18 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 1: long ago, it's it's difficult to really understand that kind 19 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 1: of trauma. Right. You know your father is alive, you 20 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 1: know that society is looking upon you as an outcast, 21 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 1: similar to how your mother was treated when she was 22 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: when she was pregnant with you. 23 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 3: I'm sorry really quickly. The moment in the movie is 24 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 3: my father. He's alive. I never knew my father. I'm sorry, 25 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 3: carry on. So what happens next? 26 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 2: Oh me? 27 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 4: Oh right, I guess I am telling the story. I 28 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 4: was like, what does happen next? I'm on the edge 29 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 4: of my seat. 30 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 3: Cinema draw. 31 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:14,240 Speaker 4: No, Sean Connery does not get to be There's no 32 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:15,639 Speaker 4: Scottish Sean Connery. 33 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:17,919 Speaker 3: He can do an American accent. Have you seen the 34 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 3: James Bond. 35 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 4: Film to do a British accent? I don't know. 36 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:24,639 Speaker 2: I'm just ragging on his sort of amorphous accent in 37 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:27,800 Speaker 2: the James Bond movies. But no, what truly does happen next? 38 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 2: In the actual facts telling of this tale? 39 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 4: So in the actual facts telling of this tale, the 40 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 4: Duke of Northumberland dies. James Macy graduates from Oxford. He 41 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 4: becomes a chemist and a mineralogist, and he's known as 42 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 4: a nomadic bachelor who loved to gamble. He publishes twenty 43 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 4: seven scientific papers. He becomes revered for his geologic study 44 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:55,799 Speaker 4: of Scotland's fingles, cave and he's just like this passionate 45 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:00,919 Speaker 4: He's just this passionate scientist guy who ambles around. There's 46 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 4: there's a note of some hotel owner find him for 47 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 4: like trekking a bunch of rocks and dirt in his 48 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 4: hotel room. He was always collecting stuff. He just like 49 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 4: a studying nature. 50 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 1: He's a nomad for natural science. 51 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:12,639 Speaker 4: Yeah. 52 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 2: I love the idea of a bad boy scientist, you know, 53 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:19,800 Speaker 2: he flouting the rules, writing his scientific theories on the 54 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 2: back of cocktail napkins at the craps tables. 55 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 4: Yeah kind of Yeah. And this was the age of Enlightenment, 56 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:29,919 Speaker 4: so scientists were actually celebrities. He was. He was kind 57 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 4: of a rock star of the natural science world, and 58 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 4: he kind of sought solace in science. You know, the 59 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 4: laws of nature applied equally to everyone, and so he 60 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 4: had this chip on his shoulder. He's sort of the 61 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 4: way I figure he was thinking, you know, like if 62 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 4: I can't have a family legacy, I may as well 63 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 4: have one that's in science. And he really devoted himself 64 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 4: to that. When he was thirty five years old, his 65 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:56,839 Speaker 4: mother died and he pretty much immediately changed his name 66 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 4: to the Duke's original last name of Smithson. 67 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 1: Ah, okay, so now maybe a lot of dickens. Enough 68 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: time has passed, yes, right, and he has been as 69 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 1: a as a man who has been quarreling with his 70 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:18,719 Speaker 1: identity and his position for the entirety of his life. 71 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 1: He has this sort of crossroads and he makes the 72 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:27,719 Speaker 1: decision to sort of redefine himself. 73 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 2: He's taking it back, right, Yeah. 74 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 4: Yeah, So he goes from being James Macy to being 75 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 4: James Smithson and on top of that hit so not 76 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 4: only is he making some great scientific discoveries, like he 77 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 4: discovered a new mineral Smithsonit. 78 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:48,719 Speaker 1: Oh super humble to do with that? Yeah? 79 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, well you know, now he had his name so briefly. 80 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:54,040 Speaker 4: Now that he had his name, I think he had 81 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:54,800 Speaker 4: to really make it count. 82 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 2: He's going in, we say, Erica, I'm all with it. 83 00:04:58,839 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 2: I'm behind him. 84 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,480 Speaker 4: Smith's to Night was actually important for brass production, and 85 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 4: this was like the beginning of the industrial revolution. So 86 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:09,600 Speaker 4: he racked up a fortune. He's like making the big bucks. 87 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 1: So now he's a Tony Stark figure. 88 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:14,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, or actually I don't know. Is that a Game 89 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 4: of Thrones reference? 90 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 1: That's it's a comic book reference. 91 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:19,920 Speaker 3: I'm you know. 92 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:26,359 Speaker 2: So I used to call Elon Musk the monte Tony Stark, 93 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 2: but they stopped. 94 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 1: Do you know, we're a kind of a Mark Zuckerberg 95 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 1: or Tom from MySpace, sort of sort of like the 96 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:42,720 Speaker 1: Ted Talkie crowd aspiration of a maverick, wealthy, very smart person. 97 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 3: Also benevolence who has seen. 98 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 1: His benevolent and pioneering That checks out. Okay, okay, so there, 99 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 1: there we are. Our pal James is at the top 100 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 1: of the world right on multiple levels here because as 101 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:02,600 Speaker 1: you said, he has this covered, a mineral that is 102 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 1: powering part of the industrial revolution. Is that correct? Is 103 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 1: that overstaving the car? 104 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:11,040 Speaker 4: I have no idea. I don't know enough about brass 105 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 4: production to say for sure. 106 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 1: Okay, we got to call our brass guy. 107 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 4: We got to Yeah, let's get a fact check on that. 108 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 4: But I think it's sufficient to say, like it was 109 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 4: important enough, people wanted it, and it made him a 110 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 4: lot of money. 111 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 3: There you go, there we go. 112 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:25,840 Speaker 1: All right, So now he is, despite the fact that 113 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 1: he has not inherited assent from his biological father, he 114 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 1: has made his own fortune. 115 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 2: Oh yes, you love to see it, you really do. 116 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:38,160 Speaker 4: There's science through the pursuit of knowledge, you know, I know. 117 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 2: And he also was like kind of you know, shoved 118 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 2: aside for so long and denied his legacy and now 119 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:48,719 Speaker 2: he's built one of his own, accord, and yet he 120 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 2: still did want that name, which I do think is interesting. 121 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 2: If it were me, I would have kept my name 122 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:56,599 Speaker 2: and been like, screw you, dad, you know this is me. 123 00:06:56,760 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 3: I did this. I don't need you. 124 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:01,159 Speaker 2: But I understand the times were different, and there was 125 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:04,039 Speaker 2: you know, there was sort of like an expectation or 126 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:06,560 Speaker 2: it was his kind of again taking back that power 127 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 2: that had been taken from him. 128 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, so who knows exactly why I did it, but 129 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 4: I think that's a pretty good bet. Sorry, that was 130 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 4: like a very school army answer. 131 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 2: I don't know, I'm just speculated, but I do think 132 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 2: it's interesting that despite being kind of mistreated, he would 133 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 2: choose to you know, push forth that name, and that's 134 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 2: the name is everything in the story, right. 135 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 4: I think it's also relevant that he changed it only 136 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:33,120 Speaker 4: after his mother died and right after his brother died, 137 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:35,120 Speaker 4: so it was probably out of respect for her feelings 138 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 4: that he didn't change it sooner, But he had been 139 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 4: lusting after that name his whole life probably, And. 140 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 1: Again, yeah, he had been there was definitely anticipation. He 141 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 1: had been waiting. And we also know to your excellent point, 142 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 1: was he that he from earlier that he is even 143 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 1: though he's very quite brilliant, right, quite a sharp guy, 144 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 1: he is a product of society that is very much 145 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 1: bloodline and lineage based. So now that's what I was 146 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 1: getting out, Like, yeah, he very much establishes that's right. 147 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:13,680 Speaker 4: Right. So James Smithson was not going to make the 148 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 4: same mistake that his uncle lumly had made and die 149 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 4: without a will, So he writes his own will. He 150 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 4: could have afforded lawyers, but he does it himself. He's like, 151 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 4: I know what I want and this is it. And 152 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 4: there's two James. Yeah, so James's And there's two clauses 153 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:32,080 Speaker 4: in particular that are a little unusual. The first is 154 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 4: that all of his money will go to his nephew, 155 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 4: and if his nephew dies, to his nephew's children, which 156 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:43,960 Speaker 4: could be legitimate or illegitimate, so he does not distinguish 157 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 4: between the two. The second is that if his nephew 158 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:51,200 Speaker 4: has no children, the money goes to the United States 159 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 4: of America. Okay, okay, and this is what he wrote. 160 00:08:57,520 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 4: This is my James Smithson voice. 161 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's gonna sound like Sean Connery. 162 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 1: Sorry, sure, okay, let me try. 163 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 4: I bequeath the whole of my property to the United 164 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 4: States of America, to found in Washington under the name 165 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 4: of the Smithsonian Institution, an establishment for the increase and 166 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:23,199 Speaker 4: diffusion of knowledge among men. 167 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:27,440 Speaker 2: Here here who couldn't who wouldn't support that? That sounds 168 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:29,559 Speaker 2: like an absolutely noble pursuit. 169 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:31,079 Speaker 1: And folks, let's hear it for the voice acting. 170 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 3: It was very well too. 171 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 4: I didn't even attempt an accent. 172 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 2: I know my life, didn't overdo it. If they had 173 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:39,160 Speaker 2: profit toss, I think it was. I would give it 174 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:40,079 Speaker 2: eight out of ten. 175 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 1: Now we're talking like film producers, you know what? 176 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 2: Eight five eight point Wow? 177 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:47,840 Speaker 4: That sounds like great inflation. I think I am going 178 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:48,640 Speaker 4: to accept the eight. 179 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 2: But not there. 180 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 3: Oh wow. 181 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 1: So with this, though, we see something that may sound 182 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:59,679 Speaker 1: a bit unusual. We're arriving at the genesis, the origin story, 183 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: the evidence of the great Smithsonian as an institution. Lizzie, 184 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:16,560 Speaker 1: why would he do this? I see like the order 185 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:22,200 Speaker 1: of operations and scenarios, right, Nephew, nephew's kids. If no nephew, 186 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 1: if no children, then boom this whole country. 187 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:30,960 Speaker 4: The United States of America. Yes, yeah, yeah, okay, So 188 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 4: you know, he had never even been to the United States. 189 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 4: Boats made him seasick, so he had never even He 190 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:42,400 Speaker 4: left all his money to this place he'd never even seen. 191 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 4: But according to our experts, he saw the United States 192 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 4: as the antithesis of the English society that had denied 193 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 4: him legitimacy his whole life. America claimed to be built 194 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:58,560 Speaker 4: on democracy, you know, not aristocracy, and he was like, 195 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:01,559 Speaker 4: that is a project I can get behind. You guys, 196 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 4: get my money. 197 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 2: Okay, And really there though sort of an unproven thing, 198 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:10,839 Speaker 2: this democracy relatively. 199 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:14,320 Speaker 1: Pretty new, but it is definitely a bold experiment. 200 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:16,840 Speaker 4: I think he saw himself as like an early investor. 201 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 4: You know, he was like, I really, I really want 202 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 4: to support this project. 203 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:27,440 Speaker 1: So, as we know, despite this what seems to be 204 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:30,960 Speaker 1: a strange decision to the European society of the day, 205 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:34,960 Speaker 1: as we know, they. 206 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 2: Also shunned him though right European society shunned him. He 207 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 2: was saying, you know what, you don't get a penny, 208 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:42,199 Speaker 2: European society. 209 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:45,559 Speaker 1: This was as much against that society, as it was 210 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 1: for this society that he never actually visited. 211 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:50,959 Speaker 4: This was a big bleep you. 212 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, there you get to the pre bleeps. I love it. 213 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 2: No, that literally just went off like a rocket in 214 00:11:57,679 --> 00:11:59,440 Speaker 2: my head, like that is what he was doing. It 215 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:02,839 Speaker 2: was the middle to the society that had rejected him. 216 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:05,680 Speaker 2: He's almost like a he's both a superhero and a 217 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 2: super villain, depending on which side of the line. 218 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 1: He's super committed to the bit, that's for sure. And 219 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:17,679 Speaker 1: this so okay, now, now, Lizzie, perhaps we assume the 220 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 1: role of the people across the pond, right, is this 221 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:25,560 Speaker 1: a gift horse in the mouth situation? I'm butchering that, 222 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:28,319 Speaker 1: but you know the gift horse in the mouth? Is it? 223 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:35,199 Speaker 1: How do people respond with this strange, innovative, nomadic scientist 224 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 1: who wants to give you a ton of money. 225 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:40,840 Speaker 4: Well, nobody actually knows about it yet because he's still alive. 226 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 4: So the United States is like in the dark. So 227 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 4: he writes up this will and then sorry, we haven't 228 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:50,560 Speaker 4: killed James Smiths and yet, so I just have to 229 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:55,200 Speaker 4: do that briefly, okay, ahead, Yeah, So he writes up 230 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 4: his will and he's like, all right, dust off his hands. 231 00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 4: I'm done with that. He moves to Genoa, Italy, Genoa. 232 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 4: I don't know Italy. Okay, Genoa, we'll go with that. 233 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 4: And at the age of sixty four, after an illness 234 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:10,600 Speaker 4: we don't know a whole lot about, he died. This 235 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 4: was eighteen twenty nine, and so his nephew inherits his money, 236 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 4: as is the plan, and his nephew has no children, 237 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:22,559 Speaker 4: and only six years later, his nephew dies with no children. 238 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:28,880 Speaker 4: So at that point across the ocean, the baby government 239 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 4: of the United States of America learns to their surprise 240 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:33,720 Speaker 4: that some dude they have never heard of has left 241 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:37,720 Speaker 4: them a kaboodle of money, and they're just like, wait, 242 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:43,239 Speaker 4: who and why and a British Man, we don't understand. 243 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:46,959 Speaker 4: They're actually highly suspicious because you know, it's only fifty 244 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:50,800 Speaker 4: two years before the US fought Britain for independence, and 245 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:53,599 Speaker 4: then only twenty one years before was the War of 246 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:56,560 Speaker 4: eighteen twelve when the British actually invaded Washington and set 247 00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:59,320 Speaker 4: it on fire, So that was pretty alive in the 248 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:01,080 Speaker 4: memories of the people there. 249 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:09,679 Speaker 1: Right right. And then also, yeah, we can't blame the 250 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:14,120 Speaker 1: the politicians of the day for being somewhat skeptical with 251 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:15,720 Speaker 1: with this amount of money. 252 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, it was the equivalent of like today's I don't 253 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 4: catch about one hundred million dollars. Yeah, they were like, 254 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 4: what are the strings attached here? 255 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 3: One hundred million? 256 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 2: You say, yes, okay, and this is to be like, 257 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 2: like the idea would be to establish this is there 258 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 2: an ongoing endowment or how does that. 259 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 3: Part of it work? 260 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:34,040 Speaker 1: No? 261 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 4: I think it was just to get it started. It's like, 262 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 4: here's all my money, make something called the Smithsonian Institution 263 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 4: for the Increase in Diffusion of Knowledge. You guys figure it. 264 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 1: Out, which is other? Yeah, pretty pretty prof Yes. Yeah, 265 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 1: that's like when an executive producer walks in and says 266 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 1: something with something with aspiration, maybe a bird. 267 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's gotta be work it out. 268 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 2: Gotta say though, before we get to the stunning conclusion 269 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 2: of this tale, clearly you guys took the ball and 270 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 2: ran with it because Smithsonian Institution kind of a big deal. 271 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 3: Seems to have done well by our boy here. 272 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:13,400 Speaker 4: You know, as the physical embodiment of the Smithsonian Institution. 273 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 4: I thank you, you're welcome. 274 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 3: I wanted to hear your weigh in on this. 275 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:20,600 Speaker 2: So what how Yeah, how do they set about doing 276 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 2: this sort of vague like and how does one even 277 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 2: hold like judge the criteria of doing such a thing 278 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 2: with someone's money, Like are there boxes to tick? 279 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 4: Like? 280 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 2: They could have just phoned it in, I guess, but 281 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 2: they clearly did not. 282 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 1: The money moves, so I imagine one of the big 283 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 1: things was learning first that it is a real sum 284 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 1: and that changes the tenor of the conversation and being 285 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 1: that it was, being that it was and is us Congress. 286 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 1: I imagine there was a lot of back and forth 287 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 1: once they decided it was real. 288 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:57,200 Speaker 4: Money shockingly had a hard time deciding what to do 289 00:15:57,280 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 4: with all this money. They It took them a little 290 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:03,200 Speaker 4: while too a great so in eighteen thirty eight the 291 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:06,280 Speaker 4: money was boxed up ship to the United States, so like, okay, 292 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 4: it's real here it is, yeah. 293 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 2: No wire transfer, yea literally cash money shipped through the mail. 294 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 2: This seems so terrifying when you think about it by 295 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 2: today's stand. 296 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 4: Yeah, and then it just sat there I don't know, 297 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 4: at the Treasury wherever it would have sat for over 298 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 4: a decade while Congress tried to figure out what to 299 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 4: do with it. It took over ten years. They were like 300 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 4: I don't know, okay, increase in diffusion of knowledge. Is 301 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 4: it a university, is it a laboratory, is it a 302 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 4: school for teachers? Is it a museum? 303 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 1: Knowledge is the most important in priority right right. 304 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 4: So eventually they did decide and on August tenth, eighteen 305 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:53,359 Speaker 4: forty eight, Congress pass legislation that created the Smithsonian Institution. 306 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 1: Lizee, that's the day before my birthday. Really awesome, Yeah. 307 00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 4: You were born in eighteen forty six. 308 00:16:58,360 --> 00:16:59,760 Speaker 1: We're not doing questions for the. 309 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:04,399 Speaker 3: But that's funny. 310 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:07,880 Speaker 2: But then myself and our co host on our other 311 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 2: podcast stuff that I want you to know all have 312 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:11,840 Speaker 2: like August birthdays within days of one another. 313 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, it's a bunch of leos. It sounds 314 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 4: like not to bring astrology into the room. 315 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:18,439 Speaker 3: No, no, bring it. Some of some of that stuff 316 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 3: is painfully real. 317 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:23,400 Speaker 1: Somebody in Congress was probably say, well, what's our take 318 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:29,119 Speaker 1: on astrology? That's probably what James is focusing on. I 319 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 1: think the want to be. And then someone says, no, 320 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:35,479 Speaker 1: what about math? And he's like, you are such a virgo? 321 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 1: What a budget. 322 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:40,359 Speaker 4: Way to bring it back to the story. That was 323 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:42,200 Speaker 4: a beautiful, beautiful segue. 324 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 3: But as we know. 325 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:49,360 Speaker 2: I mean, the Smithsonian Institution encompasses numerous facets of all 326 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 2: of this stuff, and obviously they didn't happen overnight. But 327 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:55,320 Speaker 2: I just think it's so cool. You got to start somewhere, 328 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:57,359 Speaker 2: and that's why I think the story is so fascinating. 329 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 2: But you know what, what would the early day of 330 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 2: this institution have looked like or if. 331 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 4: It felt like well, it was the oh gosh, I 332 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:10,240 Speaker 4: should have done like this isn't aside, I should have 333 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 4: done more research. It was the first national museum to start, 334 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 4: so the Smithsonian was known as the National Museum in 335 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:19,920 Speaker 4: the early days, and it was but it was mostly 336 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 4: built around scientific knowledge. The first Secretary of the Smithsonian 337 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:27,679 Speaker 4: was known as the Nation's Chief Scientist. That was a 338 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:30,399 Speaker 4: role that we had for many years. So it had 339 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:32,879 Speaker 4: a heavy science focus. But there was a lot of 340 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 4: back and forth in the early days between secretaries and 341 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:39,439 Speaker 4: the secretary is sort of like the chief of the Smithsonian, 342 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:44,480 Speaker 4: about whether it was a research institution or a museum. 343 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 4: So there was a lot of push and pull, and 344 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:51,959 Speaker 4: those early players had a lot of impact on shaping 345 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:54,119 Speaker 4: the direction of the museum, and it was very It 346 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:57,000 Speaker 4: was heated at times. That's a whole other story. 347 00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 1: You guys can get me back for that, so'd be thrilled. 348 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:05,360 Speaker 4: But there is an epilogue because remember we left James 349 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 4: in Italy. 350 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 1: Right in Genoa. 351 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 2: Now in that building, right, that red castle with the crypt, right, 352 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:14,360 Speaker 2: am I remembering correctly? 353 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 4: I remember it? 354 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 1: Yes? 355 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:21,360 Speaker 4: So okay. So in nineteen oh three, this was seventy 356 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 4: four years after James Smithson died the city of Genoa 357 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 4: was doing some renovations and they were going to bulldoze 358 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:32,800 Speaker 4: the cemetery where he was buried. So they were having 359 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:34,879 Speaker 4: to kind of relocate all these bodies and they were 360 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:36,919 Speaker 4: kind of calling next of kid and all that to 361 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:42,120 Speaker 4: be like, hey, come get your people. And so by 362 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:45,680 Speaker 4: this time, the Smithsonian Institution was well established and the castle, 363 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:49,280 Speaker 4: you know, was standing proudly on the National Mall. And 364 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:52,399 Speaker 4: someone from the cemetery calls and is like, hey, we've 365 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 4: got James Smithson. He's like important to you. We have 366 00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 4: your guy. Do you want his body? And the Board 367 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 4: of Regents, which is sort of the governing board of Smithsonian, 368 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:09,639 Speaker 4: they were like, no thanks, that sounds really inconvenient, like 369 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:12,200 Speaker 4: we don't want a corpse. Thanks, but no thanks. So 370 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:16,439 Speaker 4: they're just like no, except for one guy, Alexander Graham 371 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:21,160 Speaker 4: Bell is like no, he will we not leave. 372 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:24,920 Speaker 3: James listen to be bulldozed, right. 373 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:29,720 Speaker 2: The Alexander Graham Bell resumed a couple other things. 374 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:30,239 Speaker 4: You know. 375 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:35,120 Speaker 1: He he did some work in hydrofoils. But he maybe. 376 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 2: Invented the mirror ball, a disco ball, Yeah, the smoking machine. 377 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:43,119 Speaker 1: He's the he's the guy. He's the creator of the casadia, 378 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:48,879 Speaker 1: you know, and and also loosely associated with the telephone. 379 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 4: That's right, but that's his least well known thing. 380 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's kind of a deep cut. 381 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 4: Who can compete with the disco ball. Once you've invented 382 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 4: the disco ball, everything else is down. 383 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:00,600 Speaker 3: He also invented that move with the one finger. 384 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:05,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, he had a little zig zaggy you know, it 385 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:06,120 Speaker 1: goes with the ball. 386 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:09,960 Speaker 3: Yeah. Why, I'm sorry it was him. He took this 387 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:10,639 Speaker 3: upon himself. 388 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:13,399 Speaker 2: He felt strongly about this, and he's like, I'm gonna 389 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 2: go save our boy our boys remains. 390 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:20,640 Speaker 4: Yeah. Well, he felt strongly because he, like James Smithson, 391 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 4: was a scientist and a philanthropist, and he felt a 392 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 4: connection to this guy. He felt like he'd done a 393 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:29,480 Speaker 4: really great thing for the country and for science, and 394 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:32,159 Speaker 4: he wanted to see his remains treated with respect. So 395 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:35,400 Speaker 4: he was like, yeah, this is inconvenient and possibly expensive 396 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:37,920 Speaker 4: and all that, but we owe it to James Smithson 397 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 4: to go get him. And he offered to pay himself 398 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,960 Speaker 4: to go get his remains, and finally he got permission. 399 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:47,240 Speaker 4: Off he went on a boat to Italy. I think 400 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 4: his wife went with him. I think it was like 401 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:51,040 Speaker 4: just the two of them off on this mission. 402 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:51,879 Speaker 3: And a romantic invention. 403 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,399 Speaker 2: Yea remains, do a little sight seeing. 404 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 1: It's also a long journey, so he was very serious 405 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,879 Speaker 1: about yes, yeah, not convenience, not hop in a flight. 406 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:02,399 Speaker 3: Yeah. 407 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 4: In my like cinema of the mind moment here, it's 408 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:06,639 Speaker 4: like they're standing at the rail of the ship, just 409 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:10,440 Speaker 4: like squinting to see the shoreline of Italy, and they're 410 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:15,560 Speaker 4: they're each holding like large trowels. They're just like, yes, yes, ready. 411 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:17,920 Speaker 3: They're ready to dig, ready from home. 412 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 1: They're disenturing and they're oh my gosh, you know what 413 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 1: they're having that Indiana Jones moment. Alexander Graham Bell looks 414 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:28,359 Speaker 1: at his spouse and like points off in their rison 415 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 1: and goes it belongs in a museum. 416 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:34,240 Speaker 4: Yes, yes, exactly. 417 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:45,400 Speaker 2: So they do disinter zoom. I guess this remains bring 418 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:46,600 Speaker 2: them back to the castle. 419 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 4: Can't say if he did all the digging himself or what, 420 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:51,919 Speaker 4: but I think there was permits and some bribery and 421 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,359 Speaker 4: it was harder than they thought. But they did eventually 422 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:57,400 Speaker 4: bring him back and and you know once I mean 423 00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:59,919 Speaker 4: Alexander Graham Bell did most of the heavy lifting. So 424 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,880 Speaker 4: once he actually got back to DC, President Teddy Roosevelt 425 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:05,439 Speaker 4: was like, okay, okay, Well, you know, the Navy greeted 426 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:07,359 Speaker 4: the boat at the entrance to the harbor, and the 427 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,679 Speaker 4: cavalry met them at the dock, and the casket was 428 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 4: loaded into a wagon and draped in flags American and 429 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:17,359 Speaker 4: British flags, and the marine band played, and the whole 430 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:20,440 Speaker 4: shebang went up to the castle and they like drop 431 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 4: off the casket in the castle and they're like, okay, 432 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:24,439 Speaker 4: what do we do with it? 433 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 1: Oh, they don't have a place for it. 434 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:30,480 Speaker 3: It didn't really It's a long trip they could have 435 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:31,360 Speaker 3: maybe figured. 436 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:33,320 Speaker 1: Out had the time, though. 437 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:34,760 Speaker 4: Is the thing, you know, I think it was one 438 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:36,919 Speaker 4: of those things where you know, when like you know, 439 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,479 Speaker 4: and your partners like, hey, I have this great idea 440 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:42,120 Speaker 4: and you're like, I don't think that's a good idea 441 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:43,879 Speaker 4: at all, but I don't think that you'll ever actually 442 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 4: do it, so I'm going to give you my full endorsement. 443 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 4: And then they come back and they're like, hey, I 444 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:50,880 Speaker 4: did this great thing, and you're like, oh, man, I. 445 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 1: Got that tattoo we were talking about. Remember last night 446 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:59,200 Speaker 1: you said that I was just drinking. 447 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 3: But here we are are Do you love it? You do? 448 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:05,600 Speaker 4: So the twist is that I am that partner in 449 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,360 Speaker 4: this story. I'm the one with low executive functions. So 450 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 4: my husband is always like, sounds great. You do it, 451 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 4: knowing full well that I will never manage to do it, 452 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 4: but occasionally I do occasionally. 453 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:19,400 Speaker 1: Okay, you have you ever, Lizzie, have you ever been 454 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,639 Speaker 1: in a situation where you say, Darling, would you like 455 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,720 Speaker 1: to go to Genoa and let's say we pick up 456 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:26,200 Speaker 1: a body. 457 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:29,840 Speaker 4: I haven't yet, but I have that one in my 458 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:30,399 Speaker 4: back pocket. 459 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,560 Speaker 3: It hasn't presented itself. 460 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:35,359 Speaker 4: I haven't found the right body yet. 461 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:36,400 Speaker 1: That's it. 462 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, if I may. They don't know what to do 463 00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 3: with it, so they just kind of take the path 464 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:43,920 Speaker 3: of least resistance here, right. 465 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,199 Speaker 4: Right, So well, they first they do actually hold a contest. 466 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:49,200 Speaker 4: They're like, Okay, we don't know what to do with it, 467 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,200 Speaker 4: people of America, what should we do with this? 468 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 1: And people write it contayk goodness, the internet wasn't around. 469 00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:01,040 Speaker 1: Do you imagine named Ody mcbod fain right your suggestions? 470 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 4: Oh boy? Well, people had a real like high aspirations. 471 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:06,880 Speaker 4: One of the one of the ideas was to build 472 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:10,159 Speaker 4: something several times the size of the Washington Monument in 473 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 4: honor of Smithson, which would have been like it's like, yeah, yeah, 474 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:16,679 Speaker 4: we have Washington and then even taller in the background, 475 00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 4: we have James Smithson. But that didn't that didn't end 476 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,439 Speaker 4: up happening. I think it was a budgeting issue. So 477 00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:29,680 Speaker 4: eventually what they did was they took the janitor's closet 478 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 4: right to the left of the main entrance and they 479 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,399 Speaker 4: did a little light remodeling and they added a little 480 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,880 Speaker 4: sign that says crypt and they put it in there. 481 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 2: See in my theater of the mind, they just pasde like, 482 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,439 Speaker 2: took a sticky note, stuck it over janitor and just 483 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,679 Speaker 2: wrote crypt on it with a sharpie like that's just 484 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:52,159 Speaker 2: what my mind immediately can't get rid of that. 485 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:54,840 Speaker 1: Did they move the you know, like the mops, the 486 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 1: buckets busy or did they just did they just like 487 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:05,639 Speaker 1: place them on the Let's give credit where credit is. 488 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 1: Surely they made it crypt like your museum, like if 489 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:09,120 Speaker 1: it's hanging on the wall. 490 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:11,399 Speaker 4: You know, I can't really say what it looked like 491 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:15,800 Speaker 4: in those early days. But since they have added, you know, 492 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:20,080 Speaker 4: they Alexander Graham Bell also brought over the tombstone from Genoa. 493 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 4: So there's this like ten foot tall slab of marble 494 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:26,160 Speaker 4: in there with his name on it, and there's some flags, 495 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 4: and there's some plaques now explaining like who he is 496 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,679 Speaker 4: and and he himself is there at the very foot 497 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:38,720 Speaker 4: of the of the monument, you know, James's remains are there. 498 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:42,880 Speaker 1: I can see this, the remains of the James. 499 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:44,120 Speaker 4: The remains of the James. 500 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:48,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, first stop, Okay, I hope you know now that 501 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,199 Speaker 2: I am going to lean on you heavily for my 502 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:53,720 Speaker 2: itinerary for when I do. 503 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 3: Do this this eventual can the Smithsonian. 504 00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:59,560 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, later this year probably. 505 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,880 Speaker 2: Well, let's go so with this. 506 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 1: You can't. We're verifying that you can visit the remains 507 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 1: of the James today in DC. Is it open to 508 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 1: the public? Or is it? What's the situation there? 509 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:16,720 Speaker 4: So Smithsonian Castle is currently under renovation and will be 510 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,679 Speaker 4: for several more years because it's old and needs a 511 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:23,120 Speaker 4: little TLC. And so while it's under renovation, you can't 512 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:26,400 Speaker 4: go inside. But normally and you know, post renovation, Yeah, 513 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,119 Speaker 4: you walk in the front door and immediately to your 514 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:32,840 Speaker 4: left is this little crypt like alcove, and there you 515 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:36,879 Speaker 4: can see James Smithson's well, you can't see his remains, 516 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:38,399 Speaker 4: you can't see like his skull or anything, but you 517 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,800 Speaker 4: could see the you know, the monument containing his remains, 518 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:45,600 Speaker 4: and you can read about him. There's a little portrait 519 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:49,040 Speaker 4: of him etched in marble, and you can have your 520 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:50,600 Speaker 4: moment with the remains of James. 521 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 1: What a fantastic story, What an amazing and I'm not 522 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:59,120 Speaker 1: even a t empties sound hyperbolic, what an amazing journey. 523 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:05,320 Speaker 1: We've We've got characters from other historical events showing up 524 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 1: as cameos. This is a heck of a team up. 525 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,119 Speaker 1: And Nolah, I don't know about you, but this is 526 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:14,560 Speaker 1: something I was as a person visits the Smithsonian often, 527 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,119 Speaker 1: I was not aware of this origin story. 528 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:19,679 Speaker 2: I wasn't either, and I will say that I just 529 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:21,639 Speaker 2: I feel like this is a normal episode with a 530 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:27,000 Speaker 2: siting with Smithsonian Institution. There is a fantastic article or 531 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:30,400 Speaker 2: a I guess, sort of a record of James Smithson 532 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 2: at Oxford that has some of his papers and then 533 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,520 Speaker 2: some really really great backstory about his time at Oxford University. 534 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:40,240 Speaker 2: But there's this fabulous portrait of him wearing like the 535 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:44,480 Speaker 2: classic cap and gown kind of situation, with his legs 536 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,080 Speaker 2: crossed and his breeches kind of showing, and he's got 537 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 2: these lovely pointy shoes. But just the portrait of an 538 00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:52,080 Speaker 2: academic he. 539 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 4: Was thought to have style. He was described as sickly 540 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 4: and effeminate, so you know, make of that what you will. 541 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 2: But he's a little pale here, but he looks stylish 542 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,800 Speaker 2: as heck. He looks like David Bowie type figure. 543 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:04,320 Speaker 3: Yeah. 544 00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:07,600 Speaker 1: I love that he's ahead of his time and he 545 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:11,640 Speaker 1: and Lizzie. First, we have to say thank you so 546 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 1: much for sharing and exploring this story with us today. 547 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 1: We know that you can hear the entirety of this 548 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 1: story in the episode of Side Door season seven, episode fifteen, 549 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:30,240 Speaker 1: and Lizzie, in this episode of Side Door, you speak 550 00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:35,640 Speaker 1: directly with the aforementioned William Bennett, who received restored and 551 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:43,760 Speaker 1: then deciphered this sheepskit that I mean that's true. Yes, yeah, 552 00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 1: it feels weird to say it that way. Yeah, we 553 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 1: should just use the name. But we can't thank you 554 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:53,320 Speaker 1: enough for joining us, and we'd love to have you 555 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 1: back on the show. We'd love to join forces again 556 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 1: because light spoiler folks. As you know, Noel, there are 557 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:04,240 Speaker 1: others stories that we're hoping to get to in the future, 558 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 1: and we can't thank you enough. But we do have 559 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 1: to ask the question that all our ridiculous historians are 560 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:15,320 Speaker 1: asking right now. Where can people learn more about side 561 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:17,480 Speaker 1: Door and where can they learn about your other work? 562 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:21,760 Speaker 4: Well, they can learn about side Door at si dot 563 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 4: edu slash side door, which has our website, or by 564 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,720 Speaker 4: following us on social media at side door pod. 565 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,760 Speaker 2: And yeah, curely the podcast is available anywhere you get 566 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:32,360 Speaker 2: to oh yeah. 567 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:36,800 Speaker 4: Anywhere you get your podcasts. All the usual suspects, and 568 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:40,160 Speaker 4: we've got hundreds of stories. You know, science, are history, culture, 569 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:42,840 Speaker 4: you name it. Surf around see if something jumps out 570 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:46,760 Speaker 4: at you. But yeah, there's one story in particular I 571 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:49,320 Speaker 4: think you guys might enjoy about the right brothers. 572 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,360 Speaker 2: We've talked about. It's in our back pocket. We can't 573 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 2: wait to do it. Hopefully, if this went well, you 574 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,320 Speaker 2: get permission from the Brass, then we will absolutely come 575 00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:00,080 Speaker 2: back and do that, right brothers, Store. 576 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:02,520 Speaker 4: I also want to give a shout out to Heather Ewing, 577 00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 4: who is Smithson's biographer, and we speak with her directly 578 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,760 Speaker 4: in that episode too. She's she's a great interview. So 579 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 4: you can hear it from the horse's mouth. Sorry, Heather, 580 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 4: you are not like a horse in any way I heard. Regret, sure, regret, 581 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:20,000 Speaker 4: regret nothing. 582 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:21,840 Speaker 2: There's no regrets that ridiculous history. 583 00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 1: And with that, folks, get thee to the podcast platform 584 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:29,200 Speaker 1: of your choice and check out side Door as they'll 585 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:33,280 Speaker 1: set available wherever you get your favorite podcasts. This has 586 00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:35,600 Speaker 1: been ridiculous history. Thank you, as always so much to 587 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:39,480 Speaker 1: our super producer mister Max Williams uh and thanks to 588 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 1: well the Smithsonian a lot of episodes. 589 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:52,560 Speaker 2: Thanks to the superproducer Max Alex Williams who composed our theme. 590 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:57,000 Speaker 2: Christopherrasciotis needs Jeff Coates here in Spirit and aj Jacobs 591 00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:57,760 Speaker 2: The Puzzler and. 592 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:05,480 Speaker 1: On the Quizzer Jacob and Jonathan Jonathan Sirc glynd Ak, 593 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,800 Speaker 1: the quistor, the sort of Duke of Northumberland, of our 594 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:14,160 Speaker 1: show and of course thanks to you. Lizzie can't wait 595 00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:16,640 Speaker 1: to join you again in the future. 596 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:20,080 Speaker 4: You are welcome. It's been a pleasure. Enjoy the rest 597 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:21,560 Speaker 4: of your segue ride. 598 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:32,120 Speaker 2: We'll see you next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, 599 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:35,440 Speaker 2: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 600 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:36,520 Speaker 2: to your favorite shows.