WEBVTT - History's Greatest Traitors 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:16.840 Brought to you by the all new Toyota Corolla. Welcome 0:00:16.880 --> 0:00:20.160 to Stuff you should know from House Stuff, Work Stops 0:00:20.160 --> 0:00:29.000 dot Com. Hey, welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. 0:00:29.040 --> 0:00:35.920 There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant Um so Chuck. Yeah, I 0:00:35.960 --> 0:00:39.080 have a story. All right, it's here. It come back 0:00:39.080 --> 0:00:54.800 with me way back machine. Sure, okay, a couple of 0:00:54.800 --> 0:01:01.680 hours ago. So here we are. It's December. Something really 0:01:01.680 --> 0:01:03.520 bad is about to happen. And sit down in front 0:01:03.520 --> 0:01:08.440 of this TVA, our good friend and hero, Peter Brady, 0:01:08.760 --> 0:01:11.560 is trying out for the school play. It's a story 0:01:11.560 --> 0:01:15.240 of the American Revolution. He tries out for George Washington, 0:01:15.280 --> 0:01:17.959 but he doesn't get it. And in fact, the name 0:01:18.000 --> 0:01:20.080 of this episode that we're sitting here watching on this 0:01:20.200 --> 0:01:24.800 nice brown and orange shag carpeting is called Everybody Can't 0:01:24.840 --> 0:01:28.160 Be George Washington. Peter doesn't get the part of George Washington, 0:01:28.280 --> 0:01:31.560 but he does get another very important part, the part 0:01:31.560 --> 0:01:35.520 of Benedict Donald. Well, at first he's like, hey, it's 0:01:35.520 --> 0:01:38.240 a part, it's a speaking part. I'm pretty happy. I'm 0:01:38.240 --> 0:01:39.920 gonna do my best. That was a tree in my 0:01:40.000 --> 0:01:42.479 last six place, right, This is a huge step up 0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:48.040 for him, um, until his classmates point out that Benediccdonald 0:01:48.280 --> 0:01:51.880 was a trader, and since Peter's playing a trader, he 0:01:52.000 --> 0:01:54.720 must be some sort of trader too. So basically the 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:58.480 whole school turns on him because he's playing Benedictdonald. It's 0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:01.080 really kind of silly. It is silly. And of course 0:02:01.120 --> 0:02:06.840 Peter tries to get out of the play again and again, um, 0:02:06.880 --> 0:02:11.280 affecting laryngitis, pretending as a limp um all of this stuff, 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:13.720 first saying he forgets his lines, Yeah, I think I 0:02:13.760 --> 0:02:17.400 remember that, and finally successful, and then his dad points 0:02:17.400 --> 0:02:20.720 out that he has turned into a trader. Now Peter 0:02:20.919 --> 0:02:23.440 against the whole class of the whole cast, don't tell me. 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:25.200 He had a lesson for him, and he sat him 0:02:25.200 --> 0:02:27.240 down and had a talking to. It was a good one. 0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:29.920 It was a good one, um. And so Peter goes 0:02:30.000 --> 0:02:32.480 in and plays Bennedictdonald and knocks it out of the 0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:35.279 park and learned a lesson in the process. But the 0:02:35.280 --> 0:02:39.240 the the whole premise of this episode of Brady Bunch 0:02:39.400 --> 0:02:43.200 is that Peter was suffering from a smear campaign started 0:02:43.280 --> 0:02:47.160 two years before by George Washington, and it was so 0:02:47.240 --> 0:02:50.000 successful that even today, you can get a rise out 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:52.560 of somebody by calling on Benedict Donald if they've done 0:02:52.600 --> 0:02:56.000 something traitorous. Yeah, and we've learned there are quite a 0:02:56.000 --> 0:03:00.320 few uh synonyms with trader that were in fact notorious traders, 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:06.360 like if you call someone to Judas or McDonald or what. Yeah, 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:08.280 that might be popular in some parts of the world. 0:03:08.320 --> 0:03:11.000 But right, but this is the USA. Sure, so we 0:03:11.200 --> 0:03:15.799 called people Benned McDonald's. That's right. Um, well, let's talk 0:03:15.840 --> 0:03:19.119 about this. Let's talk about benediccdonald to start. Okay, Well, 0:03:19.160 --> 0:03:20.600 you know, first of all, we should point out that 0:03:20.639 --> 0:03:25.600 this is a curated show from our buddy Sam tea Garden. 0:03:26.120 --> 0:03:28.600 This is the Summer of Sam. Then, yeah, we're continuing 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:31.120 into our second summer of Sam. And for those of 0:03:31.120 --> 0:03:33.960 these don't know, Sam is a local fan of ours 0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:37.080 and uh a good kid and he's he's actually on 0:03:37.120 --> 0:03:39.400 our TV show. He was in an episode to make 0:03:39.440 --> 0:03:43.119 an episode. Yah is one of our softball teammates. And uh, 0:03:43.160 --> 0:03:45.120 Sam's a good guy and he sends in great ideas, 0:03:45.120 --> 0:03:50.240 so we like to highlight them when we uh do them. Yeah, 0:03:50.480 --> 0:03:53.920 all right, the summer Sam, Hey Sam, hope you're doing well, buddy. Um, 0:03:54.680 --> 0:03:57.880 where we about Benned Iccdonald and why there was such 0:03:57.880 --> 0:04:01.480 a smear campaign against him, and turns out rightfully so, 0:04:01.520 --> 0:04:05.480 although possibly I think a lot of Arnold's side of 0:04:05.480 --> 0:04:08.160 the story has been lost to history. Well. Yeah, and 0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:11.680 coincidentally or not coincidentally, some of these traders that we're 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:14.560 going to mention today, history is born out that they 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:17.520 may not have been traders, but been an eternal definitely was. 0:04:17.640 --> 0:04:21.520 So he was a documented trader and as traitorous and 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:24.800 treasonous as you can get, as as far as in 0:04:24.839 --> 0:04:28.040 the context of war. Yeah. So, early on in life 0:04:28.080 --> 0:04:30.080 things started out pretty well. He was born into some 0:04:30.160 --> 0:04:35.479 wealth um, but his family um, specifically his father squandered 0:04:35.480 --> 0:04:37.880 their fortune with some bad business dealings. Apparently he was 0:04:37.960 --> 0:04:41.119 quite a drinker. He turned into the town drunk. Yeah, well, 0:04:41.240 --> 0:04:44.280 that'll do it. They lost their family estate because they 0:04:44.320 --> 0:04:47.920 lost their dough. Three of his sisters are sorry siblings 0:04:47.960 --> 0:04:50.760 died from yellow fever. He had to drop out of school. 0:04:51.240 --> 0:04:54.680 He became an apothecary. Yeah, so things weren't like Rosie 0:04:54.720 --> 0:04:57.400 for the guy, although he did quite well later on 0:04:57.440 --> 0:05:00.000 in the military. Well, he did quite well even before 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:02.599 or that as a merchant and actually by the age 0:05:02.600 --> 0:05:05.239 of twenty two, was able to buy back his family's estate, 0:05:06.080 --> 0:05:08.080 which he then turned around and sold it a profit. 0:05:09.080 --> 0:05:10.760 Well good for him. So I guess he wasn't the 0:05:10.800 --> 0:05:13.800 sentimental type for this the state. Yeah, I think it 0:05:13.839 --> 0:05:16.159 wasn't that he wanted his his family's a state back. 0:05:16.400 --> 0:05:19.040 He just didn't want to lose out on the potential 0:05:19.080 --> 0:05:21.200 profit from it, I guess. Yeah. And he seemed like 0:05:21.279 --> 0:05:23.840 he may have been like a d D before there 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:26.520 was a d D. Yeah. Yeah, from the sounds of 0:05:26.560 --> 0:05:28.680 reading his thing, I was just like, man, he this 0:05:28.760 --> 0:05:30.839 kid had a d D. He was always in trouble. 0:05:30.880 --> 0:05:32.880 He's getting kicked out of school, but it was just 0:05:32.920 --> 0:05:37.279 because he was like busy. Yeah, he wasn't like a 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:39.520 bad kid. It seemed like he was just always had 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:42.640 something going on. He finally, I guess, found his niche 0:05:42.680 --> 0:05:47.880 and it did become quite a businessman, um and fabulously wealthy. 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:50.480 But he wasn't wealthy enough in his opinion, and in 0:05:50.480 --> 0:05:53.479 fact joined the Sons of Liberty, the revolutionary group in 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:58.040 New England. Um because he was mad that his riches 0:05:58.040 --> 0:06:01.640 were being taxed by England. Yeah, he liked the dough 0:06:02.080 --> 0:06:05.280 he did, and uh, he did have a pretty remarkable 0:06:05.320 --> 0:06:09.440 military career, and Jefferson and in Washington were big supporters 0:06:09.440 --> 0:06:13.200 of him for a while. Yeah, but he also suffered um. 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:15.480 Apparently there are a lot of petty jealousies that they 0:06:15.480 --> 0:06:18.680 don't talk about among the founding fathers in the second 0:06:18.680 --> 0:06:22.600 and third echelons. Of all these guys, um, and apparently 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:27.479 Bennedicdonald frequently suffered um. Yes, he slighted a lot, a lot. Yeah, 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:29.200 he missed out on honors and stuff like that, and 0:06:29.200 --> 0:06:31.440 he doesn't seem like the type to let things go, 0:06:32.560 --> 0:06:36.200 nor was he the type to air his his feelings, 0:06:36.560 --> 0:06:39.200 so he just kind of sat there and stewed. Right. Yeah, 0:06:39.200 --> 0:06:40.800 I saw most of the times he was slighted, he 0:06:40.839 --> 0:06:43.920 like fought really hard to get either reassigned or reappointed 0:06:43.960 --> 0:06:46.880 to the position he was going for. And so you're right, 0:06:46.880 --> 0:06:50.440 he couldn't let it go. He needed therapy. But instead 0:06:50.920 --> 0:06:54.800 he was appointed to run West Point, not the military academy, 0:06:55.279 --> 0:06:57.640 the four right. Yeah, this is pretty I guess they 0:06:57.640 --> 0:06:59.200 probably named it for that, didn't they. I think it 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:01.760 turned into the Middle Terry Catty, but I think this 0:07:01.839 --> 0:07:06.040 was before it was an academy. Yeah, it was definitely um, 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:09.120 and so he, you know, went Benedict Donald on everyone, 0:07:09.680 --> 0:07:12.160 and little did he know he was being a Benedict Donald. 0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:16.480 But he sold secrets to uh, to the British um 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:21.720 like plans, war secrets, armament locations for about three million bucks. 0:07:21.720 --> 0:07:24.080 I think it was ten thousand pounds at the time. Yeah, 0:07:24.240 --> 0:07:29.600 so he um. He. The reason he did this ostensibly 0:07:29.840 --> 0:07:32.880 was a because he'd been slided, but also, and this 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:36.520 is what it's been lost to history, is that he 0:07:36.520 --> 0:07:39.640 he came to believe that the revolution had lost steam, 0:07:40.320 --> 0:07:42.960 that people running the show didn't really know what they 0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:45.520 were doing and probably wouldn't form a very good post 0:07:45.760 --> 0:07:49.320 revolutionary government if successful. So did he genuinely think the 0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:52.000 Brits were going to do a better job. Supposedly that's 0:07:52.000 --> 0:07:55.440 what historians say, but again he didn't really. He may 0:07:55.480 --> 0:07:57.360 have been the type to just kind of say that's 0:07:57.440 --> 0:08:00.720 what he was thinking too, and that's what what what 0:08:00.880 --> 0:08:04.200 somebody wrote down at some point, But he ultimately said this, 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:07.320 the colonies are better back in the hands of England again. 0:08:07.840 --> 0:08:09.480 So not only am I gonna try to sell the 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:14.440 map to West Point, I'm gonna join the British Army, 0:08:14.520 --> 0:08:18.520 which he did and led at least two raids against 0:08:18.560 --> 0:08:23.320 the American Revolutionary forces, so he really switched side. Yeah, 0:08:23.360 --> 0:08:25.960 in in seventeen eighty. I can't believe whoever wrote this 0:08:26.080 --> 0:08:29.240 article put that. Uh, when the plot was intercepted, he 0:08:29.280 --> 0:08:33.839 went from zero he wrote a zero. I know, I know, 0:08:34.000 --> 0:08:35.560 I was all of a sudden, I was in like 0:08:35.840 --> 0:08:39.720 US magazine ers or like a Springer show. But that's 0:08:39.720 --> 0:08:44.160 what happened. Uh. He was convicted of treason and um 0:08:44.320 --> 0:08:47.040 his name was a race from the record books. And 0:08:47.320 --> 0:08:50.160 England promised him. They're like, hey, if you defect over here, 0:08:50.160 --> 0:08:53.280 we're gonna give you land in Canada. We're not gonna 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:55.840 give you land here. We'll give you land in Canada 0:08:55.920 --> 0:08:58.600 some money, and we'll promise your family pensions and you're 0:08:58.600 --> 0:09:01.920 gonna be a British provincial to your general. And he's 0:09:01.960 --> 0:09:05.320 like that sounds pretty great. But um, as it turned out, 0:09:05.400 --> 0:09:09.040 he didn't get that many great assignments in the military 0:09:09.200 --> 0:09:11.960 in in England. He was even sort of I don't 0:09:11.960 --> 0:09:16.120 think anyone likes a trader's yeah, yeah, that comes up 0:09:16.240 --> 0:09:20.079 again and again, like even the side that you're to 0:09:20.840 --> 0:09:24.679 or whatever. Um, they yeah, they're like, you're a trader. Well, 0:09:24.720 --> 0:09:26.800 I think it's because basically you're just a big liar, 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:29.760 You're treacherous. Yeah, and so people are like, how can 0:09:29.800 --> 0:09:31.959 I trust you? Thanks for doing that, but can you 0:09:32.000 --> 0:09:33.920 go with in Canada? But it does pop up again 0:09:33.960 --> 0:09:38.080 and again. Anybody who's ever turned trader and expected some 0:09:38.160 --> 0:09:40.920 sort of glory has been sorely disappointed. Yeah. So in 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:43.080 England he was sort of poop pooed. Then he moved 0:09:43.120 --> 0:09:45.880 to Canada, they didn't like him, and then he moved 0:09:45.880 --> 0:09:49.040 back to England and died there without ever like making 0:09:49.080 --> 0:09:51.640 a whole lot of money or getting any important military action. 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:55.959 Sort of a sad ending, it really is. And today, 0:09:56.040 --> 0:09:58.760 if you go to West Point, there's I guess twelve 0:09:58.880 --> 0:10:03.760 plaques of some of like the head revolutionary generals, and 0:10:03.880 --> 0:10:06.600 his name is literally wiped from the record. It has 0:10:06.640 --> 0:10:10.760 the year of his birth and um, I think the 0:10:10.800 --> 0:10:13.240 town of his birth. His name is not on the 0:10:13.280 --> 0:10:18.240 plaque any longer, just says it's a smeared or there's 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:22.160 a sharpie through it. Um. All right, So that's been 0:10:22.200 --> 0:10:25.600 at journald. Let's go a little further back. Okay, let's 0:10:25.640 --> 0:10:32.760 go way back. I'm talking like maybe forty four BC. 0:10:39.160 --> 0:10:43.520 Cassius and Brutus. Yeah. Uh, Marcus Junius Brutus the younger, 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:46.880 I'm glad do you look that up? Yeah, I'm sure 0:10:46.880 --> 0:10:50.319 he had a fuller name. Yeah, Brutus. It's like it's 0:10:50.360 --> 0:10:54.080 like a whole country of share or something. Uh. And 0:10:54.160 --> 0:10:56.160 here's the thing with these guys. They were definitely traders 0:10:56.160 --> 0:11:01.280 as well, but they're also singled out clearly killed Caesar 0:11:01.400 --> 0:11:03.560 we all know in the oddes of March, which is 0:11:03.840 --> 0:11:07.760 Caesar the Senator and dfl dictator for life, which self 0:11:07.800 --> 0:11:11.800 declared um. But they're like sixty dudes that took part 0:11:11.800 --> 0:11:15.720 in this. Yeah. And see, Caesar was self declared Caesar 0:11:15.760 --> 0:11:20.280 for a civil war one informed a triumvirate with the 0:11:20.320 --> 0:11:26.400 people that he vanquished, so he wasn't entirely dictatorial, although 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:30.720 as like popular opinion started to swell around him, he's like, 0:11:31.160 --> 0:11:33.640 maybe I will just be leader for life. Let's let's 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:36.400 save all those voting days and I'll just be leader 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:40.280 for the rest of the time. I'm alive. And Cassius 0:11:40.320 --> 0:11:44.640 and Brutus had both fought against Caesar in the civil war, 0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:49.720 and despite that, Caesar um pardon both of them and 0:11:50.080 --> 0:11:53.720 gave them positions of power in his new government and 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:57.559 brand new knives. And they said right, and they said 0:11:57.800 --> 0:12:00.920 still not enough. Well, Cassius especially apparently he was very 0:12:01.040 --> 0:12:03.400 envious of Caesar and his power. He was the rebel 0:12:03.480 --> 0:12:06.679 rouser and that that was ultimately his motive. Although he 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:10.079 used the concept of the Republic of Rome turning into 0:12:10.120 --> 0:12:15.440 a dictatorship to lead them the assassination against Caesar. Yeah, 0:12:15.480 --> 0:12:18.160 and even cooked up evidence and like letters of support 0:12:18.240 --> 0:12:21.280 to show Brutus because Brutus was much friendlier with Caesar. 0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:24.800 They were buds and uh, but he was swayed by 0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:27.800 Cassius and said, you know what, this is gonna be 0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:30.560 good for our country or our kingdom or whatever they 0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:34.320 were calling at the time. And um took part. But 0:12:34.440 --> 0:12:37.120 they weren't like that the lead. I mean, maybe they 0:12:37.160 --> 0:12:40.480 cooked it up, but they weren't the initial aggressors. Um. 0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:43.880 I thought Brutus was the first one to stab Caesar. No, 0:12:44.240 --> 0:12:49.560 this dude, Tillius Simber came out and like pulled down 0:12:49.559 --> 0:12:53.960 his tunic first of all. Yeah, I guess he said 0:12:54.000 --> 0:12:55.680 pulled it down, But I don't know what that means 0:12:55.679 --> 0:12:59.679 if he imagined he was pulling it either pantst him 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:01.920 or no, tunics like a shirt thing, so I thought 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:03.600 he pulled it over his head like a hockey player 0:13:03.679 --> 0:13:06.920 might not fight. It's like reverse pants, the reverse pants him, 0:13:07.160 --> 0:13:09.360 and Caesar was like, you know, what is this violence 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:14.839 going on? And then another dude, um Casca, he came 0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:18.319 at him with a knife and Caesar blocked him away 0:13:18.720 --> 0:13:23.080 and defended himself and was like, basically, what's going on here? 0:13:23.160 --> 0:13:26.959 And then that's when everyone sixty guys descended upon him. 0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:29.199 Among you know, Brutus might have been the lead of 0:13:29.400 --> 0:13:33.240 that pack though yeah, okay, okay, well they stabbed the 0:13:33.240 --> 0:13:35.480 crap out of him, so I knew I thought Brutus 0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:37.880 was the first one to stab him. I knew that 0:13:38.000 --> 0:13:39.880 some other guy was the first one to strike him, 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:41.839 and it may have been the guy who reversed pants 0:13:41.880 --> 0:13:44.720 to him. Yeah, you, me and I were at Pompeii. 0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:47.760 Who actually walked around Pompeii and there's a table there 0:13:48.000 --> 0:13:51.160 and it belonged to that guy. And I guess somebody 0:13:51.160 --> 0:13:54.040 in Pompeii like bought the table of the first guy 0:13:54.120 --> 0:13:56.840 to strike Caesar and had it in their via and 0:13:56.880 --> 0:13:59.880 it's still there today, and did you eat at it now? 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:02.199 We stared at it Okay, we looked at it from 0:14:02.240 --> 0:14:06.120 like three meters away. You have the same meters because 0:14:06.120 --> 0:14:10.160 it's in Italy. That's obnoxious. Um. And apparently only one 0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:12.480 of the stabs. He was stabbed twenty three times and 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:15.400 might continue to be stabbed even after he was on 0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:17.840 the floor dead, but only one of them was a 0:14:17.880 --> 0:14:21.320 fatal blow. Um. He was a like the second stab 0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:23.600 I think went through his heart and the rest were 0:14:23.640 --> 0:14:27.360 just you know. But before that, when Brutus stabbed him, 0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:32.680 Caesar very famously said a to brute, which literally means 0:14:32.880 --> 0:14:38.280 and you Brutus or what the hell Brutus? Yeah, you too, 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:40.120 And supposedly you kind of gave up at that point, 0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:42.720 like it killed his spirit when he saw Brutus was involved. 0:14:43.400 --> 0:14:47.960 But yeah, supposedly he didn't want to live in a 0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:54.320 less world, in a world where even Brutus could assassinate him, 0:14:54.360 --> 0:14:57.840 so he resigned himself to dying and hence became a hero. 0:14:58.200 --> 0:15:03.800 It's very sad. It was on my birthday, is it fifteenth? 0:15:06.080 --> 0:15:10.000 But not of Mark that's right? Uh so? Oh also too, 0:15:10.160 --> 0:15:15.840 apparently that was the first autopsy report, first postmortem death 0:15:15.840 --> 0:15:19.320 report was made on Caesar. The Greeks man if that's 0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:29.040 true the Romans. Whatever. I'm really glad I caught that one. Yeah, 0:15:26.080 --> 0:15:35.840 probably anything else on these two traders. Um no, oh, yes, 0:15:36.280 --> 0:15:42.320 Dante had a special hatred for um Brutus and Cassius, 0:15:42.640 --> 0:15:45.760 and in his Inferno he says that, uh, they are 0:15:46.040 --> 0:15:51.600 being perpetually eaten by two of Lucifer's three months, and 0:15:51.720 --> 0:15:54.680 the third mouth is reserved for the next guy we'll 0:15:54.720 --> 0:15:58.160 talk about, a little guy named Judas is carrying Oh really, yeah, 0:15:58.240 --> 0:16:02.320 Satan's third month, So lucy first three months or eating Cassius, 0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:08.120 Brutus and Judas. All right, Judas is one of these that. Um. 0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:11.960 Recent evidence has emerged where he may not have been 0:16:12.600 --> 0:16:15.320 such a traitor, but we'll get into that. But but 0:16:15.400 --> 0:16:20.440 then that was refuted as well. Um. Everyone obviously knows 0:16:20.480 --> 0:16:26.360 the Judas kiss very famously. Judas betrayed Jesus his uh, 0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:28.400 he was one of the disciples. He'd betrayed Jesus with 0:16:28.440 --> 0:16:31.480 a kiss, and it was actually a signal to the 0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:33.400 guards to come and grab him. I guess he was 0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:38.160 identifying him. Yeah, apparently the the Romans didn't know who 0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:42.040 this Jesus was, at least by sight, and Judas went 0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:43.760 and said, hey, you guys want this Jesus, what do 0:16:43.800 --> 0:16:46.400 you give me? And the signal was like, well, you 0:16:46.480 --> 0:16:49.520 kissed the guy that's Jesus, and we'll come get him 0:16:49.560 --> 0:16:51.840 and we'll give you thirty pieces of silver. Thirty pieces 0:16:51.840 --> 0:16:55.320 of silver. I mean the west Egg inflation calculator doesn't 0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:59.400 go back you know that that date. But I can 0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:03.280 imagine it's still probably wasn't that much thirty pieces of silver. 0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:06.359 I have no idea. Well, apparently it was used later 0:17:06.440 --> 0:17:09.720 on to buy a field to turn into a potter's 0:17:09.760 --> 0:17:14.639 field to bury unclaimed dead, but I mean it's field. 0:17:14.680 --> 0:17:18.320 How much it couldn't have been that much. How much 0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:20.159 was land going for back then in Middle East? They 0:17:20.160 --> 0:17:24.800 had tons of land? Um? Okay, So Judas betrays Jesus. 0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:28.680 He was um. We didn't know much about his life 0:17:28.680 --> 0:17:32.480 at the time, But recently there has been I think 0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:36.080 in two thousand one of the gospel, a new gospel 0:17:36.200 --> 0:17:43.359 was was revealed, the Gospel of Judas colon my story, 0:17:44.440 --> 0:17:47.520 my side of things, uh. And it was of course 0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:51.119 the Papyrus document dating to the second century a d. 0:17:52.080 --> 0:17:53.879 And it was written about in a book called the 0:17:53.920 --> 0:17:58.960 Lost Gospel, and it portrays this Judas is more of 0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:04.240 a facilitator of what Jesus wanted. Basically, Jesus was like, hey, 0:18:04.440 --> 0:18:07.879 turn me in because this is my destiny. UM, like, 0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:11.520 sacrifice yourself. I sacrifice myself and we all go on 0:18:11.760 --> 0:18:14.640 to live in heaven and you know, fulfill our destinies. Yeah, 0:18:14.680 --> 0:18:16.840 which a lot of people were like, Okay, I kind 0:18:16.880 --> 0:18:19.120 of like this different view of Judas, you know, and 0:18:19.160 --> 0:18:22.199 it makes Jesus even more prescient than he appears in 0:18:22.240 --> 0:18:26.239 the Bible, because you know, he's betrayed by someone he 0:18:26.240 --> 0:18:31.600 thought was his friend. In this he Um is commanding Judas, 0:18:31.640 --> 0:18:35.119 he's asking him to to do this. So it's just 0:18:35.200 --> 0:18:38.280 an all around like great view of the story. When 0:18:38.280 --> 0:18:42.719 when But unfortunately, Um apparently there's some problems that a 0:18:42.720 --> 0:18:47.080 lot of scholars, um Gnostic scholars have with the translation, 0:18:47.760 --> 0:18:50.560 and that if you just tweak a few things to 0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:54.040 the way that the Gnostic scholars think it should be translated, 0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:56.800 that all just goes right out the window. And actually 0:18:57.240 --> 0:19:01.200 Judas is not only a horrible treacher traitor, he's actually 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:07.080 a demon from the level of being. Yeah, So quite 0:19:07.200 --> 0:19:10.199 two different stories all by changing a few words in 0:19:10.240 --> 0:19:14.200 this uh Coptic text, which isn't the easy stuff to translate, 0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:17.280 like it's tough, you know, it's not like and even 0:19:17.320 --> 0:19:21.080 the person that poo pooed the original translation was like, 0:19:21.440 --> 0:19:23.000 this is a very hard job. You know. I'm not 0:19:23.040 --> 0:19:27.120 saying they necessarily did it on purpose, but um, that's 0:19:27.119 --> 0:19:29.840 not what I think it says. And so and that 0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:34.399 was April Deconic, a professor of biblical studies at Rice University. 0:19:35.280 --> 0:19:36.760 And I don't know did other people come out and 0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:40.440 support that. I can really find much. I don't know. 0:19:41.000 --> 0:19:44.400 And apparently actually in the Bible it's hinted at that 0:19:44.520 --> 0:19:47.720 Jesus could have known about it, but um, well doesn't 0:19:47.760 --> 0:19:50.199 he say like one of you will betray me? I 0:19:50.240 --> 0:19:53.560 mean at least definitely said that the Last Temptation of Christ. 0:19:54.119 --> 0:19:56.520 Who Harvey Kite tell those a pretty good Jesus or 0:19:56.520 --> 0:20:00.399 a Judas? Yeah, yeah, yeah that was Yeah, that was 0:20:00.400 --> 0:20:03.600 a good movie. But um yeah that was how I 0:20:03.760 --> 0:20:06.399 when I, like every anything I'd ever heard, I was 0:20:06.600 --> 0:20:09.959 thought like Jesus knew. It was just never as explicit 0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:14.639 as this Gospel of Judas, right, and then Gospel of 0:20:14.720 --> 0:20:18.200 Judas say even claimed that Jesus even asked Judas like, hey, 0:20:18.320 --> 0:20:21.560 will you do this for me a solid, so UM 0:20:21.680 --> 0:20:24.360 kiss me and put one right here. Right. So Judas 0:20:25.200 --> 0:20:27.800 realize is what he's done. It feels horribly guilty, tries 0:20:27.840 --> 0:20:31.520 to give the silver back the high priests that he's 0:20:31.560 --> 0:20:36.520 sold Jesus out to UM won't take the money. UM, 0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:38.399 and so he throws it on the temple floor. They 0:20:38.480 --> 0:20:40.159 end up figuring out that it can be used for 0:20:40.200 --> 0:20:42.200 a potter spiel, and they used that thirty pieces is 0:20:42.280 --> 0:20:44.560 over for that UM. And then Judas goes off and 0:20:44.600 --> 0:20:47.080 hangs himself. Yeah. And I don't think we said Jesus 0:20:47.359 --> 0:20:51.120 was crucified. I thought that went without saying. But in case, 0:20:51.160 --> 0:20:52.960 there's like one person out there was like, what happened 0:20:52.960 --> 0:20:55.879 to Jesus? Right, whatever became a Jesus, that's what happened. Um. 0:20:56.160 --> 0:21:01.640 And then Judas supposedly fell headlong and his body opened up. 0:21:01.760 --> 0:21:06.280 And there, if you go back and read some scholarly translations, 0:21:06.600 --> 0:21:10.960 they think that, um, his body opened up means that 0:21:11.240 --> 0:21:14.040 he was left at his body was left hanging for 0:21:14.080 --> 0:21:18.520 a while out in the heat, and when it finally fell, uh, 0:21:18.760 --> 0:21:20.879 like a branch broker or whatever, and it fell, it 0:21:21.080 --> 0:21:25.360 kind of ruptured. Where'd you find that out? I don't 0:21:25.400 --> 0:21:29.480 remember somewhere online. Yeah it was. Yeah, they were talking 0:21:29.520 --> 0:21:33.719 about how he went headlong, he became headlong, and they 0:21:33.720 --> 0:21:35.800 were saying, like, if you just switch out like a 0:21:35.800 --> 0:21:39.840 couple of letters, headlong becomes swollen, and then that would 0:21:39.840 --> 0:21:44.080 explain why his body opened up. Uh. And now Judas 0:21:44.080 --> 0:21:46.280 and Judas Kiss are both part of the lexicon. And 0:21:46.520 --> 0:21:52.280 you know, in terms of betrayals, you know, treacherous. I know, 0:21:52.480 --> 0:21:55.440 thanks Sam, how about Chuck? I know you've seen this movie. 0:21:55.480 --> 0:21:59.000 I love this movie. Uh, the assassination of Jesse James 0:21:59.000 --> 0:22:02.280 by the cow Cow Robert Ford. Yeah, we've talked about it. 0:22:02.400 --> 0:22:04.560 Is a good movie, very good movie, written and directed 0:22:04.600 --> 0:22:10.639 by Andrew Dominic and has Paul Schneider and my buddy 0:22:10.640 --> 0:22:19.000 Paul Schnyder. Schneid's right, he listens, Oh, hey, was he 0:22:19.000 --> 0:22:21.000 he's in it? Yeah, he's he's one of the gang. 0:22:21.160 --> 0:22:24.680 And uh, he's he's a great actor. He's We've since 0:22:24.760 --> 0:22:29.200 become like email pals. So, uh, that was an excellent movie. 0:22:29.440 --> 0:22:35.280 I'm sure Snyder did fantastic in it. Great Schneids Schneid um. 0:22:35.560 --> 0:22:37.760 And it seems to me I don't know a lot 0:22:38.000 --> 0:22:42.160 about the whole saga of Jesse James, especially his demise. 0:22:42.720 --> 0:22:44.960 But it seemed to be pretty true to everything I've 0:22:44.960 --> 0:22:46.639 ever heard about it. Yeah, I think the movie was 0:22:46.640 --> 0:22:49.480 pretty accurate and it was great, like gorgeous to look 0:22:49.520 --> 0:22:52.800 at beautifully film. Uh, and not just because Brad Pitt 0:22:52.840 --> 0:22:56.760 was in it, but Casey A. Fleck as Robert Ford 0:22:56.920 --> 0:23:00.240 was amazing. He really so. Anyway, if you haven't see them, 0:23:00.280 --> 0:23:01.560 if we go out and see it in the meantime, 0:23:01.640 --> 0:23:03.560 we'll spoil it for you. I think he was nominated 0:23:03.560 --> 0:23:05.959 for an Academy. I can't imagine how he wasn't. And 0:23:06.000 --> 0:23:10.520 he was so creepy. So what's the deal with Jesse James. Well, 0:23:10.600 --> 0:23:15.040 Jesse James was a member of the James Gang, a 0:23:15.040 --> 0:23:17.320 full partner. Well, I think he and his brother Frank 0:23:17.400 --> 0:23:20.119 were kind of co leader. That's the impression I have 0:23:20.880 --> 0:23:25.720 like Frank still Yeah, and um, they were very successful 0:23:25.760 --> 0:23:29.560 at robbing trains, robbing people, robbing banks, robbing everything, and 0:23:29.720 --> 0:23:34.280 they became outlaw folk heroes everybody loved to hate. But 0:23:34.320 --> 0:23:36.800 he also still loved. Well, they didn't kill people, no, 0:23:37.000 --> 0:23:40.960 not until the second to last robbery by Jesse James. Uh, 0:23:41.000 --> 0:23:43.840 they botched it and a couple of people died, most 0:23:43.840 --> 0:23:46.520 of the James gang was caught, and Jesse and Frank 0:23:46.600 --> 0:23:52.320 went off and assembled a new gang that included Robert Ford. Yeah, 0:23:52.400 --> 0:23:54.760 he was pretty new. Um, he had long tried to 0:23:54.800 --> 0:23:59.919 get into James gang. And um, we'll sort of shun 0:24:00.160 --> 0:24:03.560 is uh a little weird and like not the most 0:24:03.600 --> 0:24:07.399 skilled robber and gunman, and it wasn't taken very seriously, 0:24:07.440 --> 0:24:11.600