WEBVTT - Bon Iver: Broken Record Classic 0:00:15.436 --> 0:00:22.556 Pushkin. In two thousand and six, Justin Vernon started his 0:00:22.596 --> 0:00:26.516 solo project, Bonivae, after the end of a romantic relationship 0:00:26.916 --> 0:00:30.516 and the breakup of his college band. He recorded that 0:00:30.556 --> 0:00:34.396 first album for Emma Forever Ago alone over three months 0:00:34.436 --> 0:00:37.436 and his dad's hunting cabin deep in the woods of 0:00:37.476 --> 0:00:41.396 western Wisconsin. His setup consisted of a small recording rig 0:00:41.436 --> 0:00:44.396 and a couple of guitars. For sustenance, he d a 0:00:44.436 --> 0:00:48.396 stash of fresh venison and watched old DVDs of Northern Exposure. 0:00:48.916 --> 0:00:50.916 That debut was released in two thousand and eight to 0:00:51.036 --> 0:00:55.196 critical acclaim. The album attracted the attention of other boundary 0:00:55.196 --> 0:00:58.596 pushing artists like Kanye West and James Blake, both of 0:00:58.636 --> 0:01:02.396 whom went on to become collaborators of Justin Vernon's In 0:01:02.436 --> 0:01:06.716 the years since his debut release, Justin's music has evolved dramatically. 0:01:07.276 --> 0:01:10.196 For one, Bonivere is no longer just a solo project. 0:01:10.436 --> 0:01:13.316 It's still centered around Justin, but it now includes a 0:01:13.396 --> 0:01:19.516 bunch of other musicians and collaborators, including his engineer Chris Messina. Today, 0:01:19.556 --> 0:01:22.396 we'll revisit a conversation Rick Rubin had with Justin Vernon 0:01:22.436 --> 0:01:26.196 and Chris Messina In twenty nineteen, Justin talks about how 0:01:26.236 --> 0:01:29.036 allowing himself to be bored without any guilt led him 0:01:29.036 --> 0:01:32.676 to creating his now classic debut. He also talks about 0:01:32.716 --> 0:01:35.676 how the harshness of the Wisconsin winters, along with the 0:01:35.756 --> 0:01:39.836 absence of any big city thrills, first influenced his sound, 0:01:40.356 --> 0:01:44.076 and Justin explains his unwavering love for his favorite song 0:01:44.156 --> 0:01:50.676 of all time, Fugitive by the Indigo Girls. This is 0:01:50.756 --> 0:01:54.516 broken record liner notes for the Digital Age. I'm justin Michon. 0:01:55.276 --> 0:01:58.556 Here's Justin Vernon and his engineer Chris Messina in conversation 0:01:58.756 --> 0:02:01.596 with Rick Rubin. They dive right into the kind of 0:02:01.636 --> 0:02:05.836 talk being at Shangri La inspires about building a live 0:02:05.916 --> 0:02:09.036 work studio space far from the rest of the world. 0:02:09.876 --> 0:02:12.436 Tell me about your place. I've heard great things about it. Well, 0:02:12.556 --> 0:02:14.836 I me and Chris have been working it for many years. 0:02:15.036 --> 0:02:17.876 It's under construction right now because we kind of we 0:02:17.996 --> 0:02:20.636 hit a point where we needed to to spread out 0:02:20.676 --> 0:02:22.396 a little bit. Tell me the whole story of how 0:02:22.436 --> 0:02:24.676 it How did it come to pass? The house I 0:02:24.716 --> 0:02:27.076 grew up in, it's only three miles from there, and 0:02:27.236 --> 0:02:31.076 it's uh, my brother found it and it's on tape. 0:02:31.116 --> 0:02:33.636 Ten acres, you know, super cheap and old. It was 0:02:33.636 --> 0:02:36.236 an old, like seventies ranch house and that had indoor 0:02:36.316 --> 0:02:40.716 pool and they had a yeah awesome. Yeah, we end 0:02:40.836 --> 0:02:43.316 up making that our makeshift live room for many years. 0:02:44.196 --> 0:02:45.916 But it's not ten acres in the woods, and it's 0:02:45.916 --> 0:02:49.756 like my shit, you know. Yeah, and so but we 0:02:49.836 --> 0:02:51.356 sort of did it d I Y for a while, 0:02:51.396 --> 0:02:53.316 and then I found Chris and took him off of 0:02:53.556 --> 0:02:58.196 a production touring thing and got him out there to 0:02:59.196 --> 0:03:02.436 just basically make it proper, you know. And so we've 0:03:02.476 --> 0:03:04.476 been kind of out of the d I Y zone 0:03:04.476 --> 0:03:06.436 and more and like a trying to make a proper 0:03:06.836 --> 0:03:09.636 tracking space for about eight seven year years. Now you've 0:03:09.676 --> 0:03:11.956 been out there, I guess, Chris, how would you say 0:03:11.996 --> 0:03:15.916 it changed from its DIY incarnation to the current one. 0:03:16.196 --> 0:03:18.716 I feel like more less stuff falls off the walls 0:03:18.756 --> 0:03:21.196 now maybe or something. Yeah, I'm not the one putting 0:03:21.196 --> 0:03:23.516 stuff on the walls that. Yeah. I feel like we 0:03:23.516 --> 0:03:25.676 did like a lot of teear tottering kind of before 0:03:25.676 --> 0:03:27.276 I got there, and then even still after I did 0:03:27.596 --> 0:03:30.516 just baby steps when we really just needed to do 0:03:30.596 --> 0:03:34.516 one kind of big move. Yeah, But I think it's 0:03:34.516 --> 0:03:38.236 just been getting the recording spaces, you know, more attractive sounding, 0:03:38.236 --> 0:03:41.116 and then also improving all of the wellness spaces and 0:03:41.196 --> 0:03:44.036 just the vibe of the place, because that's you know, 0:03:44.316 --> 0:03:48.396 made a pretty good record with just a pretty cruddy studio. Yeah, 0:03:48.476 --> 0:03:51.316 and then it's because the vibe is there, you know, 0:03:51.556 --> 0:03:55.156 which obviously you understand pretty well. Yeah. Absolutely, And when 0:03:55.196 --> 0:03:57.316 I just lived there too, like I lived there for 0:03:57.356 --> 0:04:01.556 many years until I live in the guesthouse up back, 0:04:01.636 --> 0:04:03.956 which is cool, but I'm I'm gonna build a house 0:04:03.996 --> 0:04:07.076 next door actually, but just being in the studio and 0:04:07.116 --> 0:04:10.356 it not being set up for really being having like 0:04:10.396 --> 0:04:15.116 a home the home base or a really I don't know, 0:04:15.156 --> 0:04:18.196 any kind of wellness vibe. It was just recording making music, 0:04:18.276 --> 0:04:20.676 you know. Yeah. Yeah, So we went through like the 0:04:20.756 --> 0:04:24.356 different iterations too, of like not knowing if we wanted 0:04:24.396 --> 0:04:25.956 to be a commercial space or if we were going 0:04:25.996 --> 0:04:28.236 to be a private space or just justin or what 0:04:28.276 --> 0:04:29.836 the deal was going to be. And yeah, so we 0:04:29.876 --> 0:04:32.756 went through all those different versions. We had to do 0:04:32.796 --> 0:04:35.956 that to learn what we didn't like basically. Yeah, and 0:04:35.996 --> 0:04:37.436 it's really just better off to be kind of a 0:04:37.436 --> 0:04:40.436 friends and family zone and us it's it's the best 0:04:40.516 --> 0:04:43.996 version of it. Absolutely. Yeah, that's that's pretty much how 0:04:43.996 --> 0:04:46.876 we do it too. It's yea. And originally I didn't. 0:04:46.876 --> 0:04:49.196 I didn't think anybody else would work here but us. 0:04:49.276 --> 0:04:52.956 But then I was away and friend asked, oh, you 0:04:52.956 --> 0:04:55.076 think we could work here. It's like, oh, that'd be cool. 0:04:55.636 --> 0:04:59.276 And so now I like the idea because I've worked 0:04:59.276 --> 0:05:02.156 so much over the course of my life that it's 0:05:02.196 --> 0:05:04.996 like a way to trick myself into not being a workaholic. 0:05:05.196 --> 0:05:07.516 There you go, that's that. We're just talking about that 0:05:07.516 --> 0:05:10.156 in the way out here. It's like, man, it's like 0:05:10.196 --> 0:05:12.316 I love music so much and I could do it 0:05:12.356 --> 0:05:16.316 every single day. Yeah, but it's not a comfortable feeling 0:05:16.356 --> 0:05:18.876 when you're like, is this all I am? Yeah, then 0:05:18.916 --> 0:05:20.956 you can get caught up in it. For it's easy 0:05:20.996 --> 0:05:23.596 too when you love something so much. But and I 0:05:23.596 --> 0:05:25.556 don't know if work with a capital W is really 0:05:25.636 --> 0:05:28.236 the name of the thing that we do because we 0:05:28.276 --> 0:05:29.876 love it so much, but it's at the end of 0:05:29.876 --> 0:05:33.836 the day, it is what you're spending time doing, right, absolutely, absolutely, 0:05:33.876 --> 0:05:35.756 and and for most of my life it was in 0:05:36.556 --> 0:05:39.836 you know, dark rooms with no window, dark little dirty rooms, 0:05:40.236 --> 0:05:42.756 so most of my life was just like in really 0:05:42.836 --> 0:05:46.316 unpleasant places. Yeah, it doesn't encourage you to be a 0:05:46.356 --> 0:05:50.396 healthy person all the time either. And I think so 0:05:50.516 --> 0:05:53.036 much of the inspiration of the work we do comes 0:05:53.156 --> 0:05:56.996 from not just doing the work. The fuel that drives 0:05:57.036 --> 0:06:02.236 the process comes from life outside of the studio. Yes, exactly, 0:06:02.316 --> 0:06:05.076 it's exactly. The fuel has been my metaphor lately. It's 0:06:05.116 --> 0:06:08.116 like gas and the tank healthy engines. You know, everything's 0:06:08.156 --> 0:06:11.316 running on music is beautiful enough to be inspired by 0:06:11.356 --> 0:06:14.356 only music. But then that isn't it. That's not a 0:06:14.396 --> 0:06:18.236 closed circuit, right, So you gotta go out and go 0:06:18.316 --> 0:06:21.596 to Grandma's house or whatever it is. Do you call 0:06:21.676 --> 0:06:25.276 it a band? Yeah, idea project band. I don't know 0:06:25.316 --> 0:06:27.916 what it is. Was it a clear like, tell me 0:06:28.476 --> 0:06:31.236 from the beginning? How did it start? That's actually an 0:06:31.236 --> 0:06:34.436 easier way to answer it. It's like I was in 0:06:34.556 --> 0:06:37.156 a band with some of my closest friends and people 0:06:37.156 --> 0:06:40.516 that grew up learning how to play music around and 0:06:40.836 --> 0:06:43.636 we sort of had that mid twenties sort of breakup 0:06:43.636 --> 0:06:46.916 winner separate ways, and I was kind of considering not 0:06:47.236 --> 0:06:48.996 trying to make a career in music and maybe go 0:06:49.036 --> 0:06:51.556 back to school and all this stuff but in that 0:06:51.676 --> 0:06:54.716 very moment is when I sort of started making the 0:06:54.796 --> 0:07:00.076 first songs for what would become Bonevair, And I remember 0:07:00.276 --> 0:07:03.236 not having a name until I finished finished the album, 0:07:03.276 --> 0:07:05.796 and I was watching Northern Exposure, that show from the 0:07:05.796 --> 0:07:09.196 early nineties, and there's this episode where the first snow 0:07:09.556 --> 0:07:11.956 falls and this little Alaskan town and everyone goes out 0:07:11.996 --> 0:07:15.236 and greets each other like bon Boniev and I thought, well, 0:07:15.316 --> 0:07:17.676 that's a good thing, because that's kind of what that's 0:07:17.876 --> 0:07:20.676 I've always been inspired by where I'm from in all 0:07:20.716 --> 0:07:23.996 that it lacks, you know, everything that it lacks, it 0:07:24.036 --> 0:07:26.476 doesn't have that the other big cities in the world have. 0:07:26.876 --> 0:07:30.156 There's something I've always enjoyed about and keyed in about 0:07:30.236 --> 0:07:32.716 what it's like to be from where I'm from, and 0:07:32.756 --> 0:07:36.596 how tough the winter makes you, and and how really 0:07:36.756 --> 0:07:38.956 nobody has the time and energy to prove anything to 0:07:38.996 --> 0:07:42.276 anyone else or something which can be very beneficial and 0:07:42.636 --> 0:07:45.436 have its drawbacks as well. But that's that's where it 0:07:45.436 --> 0:07:47.596 came from. So I thought, this, this Bonavie thing, it's 0:07:47.596 --> 0:07:50.076 almost feels like a community, a town. Even though it 0:07:50.116 --> 0:07:52.996 started with just me. I had this idea that it's 0:07:53.036 --> 0:07:57.076 like it's gonna be a town or a little town, 0:07:57.196 --> 0:08:00.836 or a growing thing or a greeting or something. And 0:08:01.316 --> 0:08:02.476 and of course, at the end of the day, it's 0:08:02.476 --> 0:08:04.636 a band, it's an artist, it's a thing, and so 0:08:04.676 --> 0:08:06.356 I try not to be too precious about it. But 0:08:06.356 --> 0:08:07.876 that's how I still believe in it. And you know, 0:08:08.316 --> 0:08:10.596 eleven twelve years later, now I guess it is. It 0:08:11.116 --> 0:08:15.076 really has blossomed into a real breathing community with love 0:08:15.116 --> 0:08:19.156 and support and all everything beautiful. Yeah, did you make 0:08:19.196 --> 0:08:21.836 the first album by yourself? Yeah? Tell me tell me 0:08:21.876 --> 0:08:24.436 the story. Yeah, so I was. I was living in 0:08:24.436 --> 0:08:26.916 North Carolina, and I'd started some of these things, and 0:08:26.996 --> 0:08:29.596 as the band kind of broke up, I sort of 0:08:29.716 --> 0:08:32.636 kind of high tailed it back to Wisconsin. I really 0:08:32.716 --> 0:08:35.756 lived in Wisconsin my whole life, minus that year and 0:08:36.036 --> 0:08:38.916 whatever amount of time I've been on the road. But 0:08:38.996 --> 0:08:41.116 at that point, I'd never been on the road really before, 0:08:41.156 --> 0:08:45.396 I'd never really had any paying music work other than 0:08:45.596 --> 0:08:49.836 weekend bar gigs and guitar teaching. So I brought my 0:08:49.876 --> 0:08:53.876 little Digio one pro tools rig and my macgi for 0:08:54.396 --> 0:08:57.716 up to my dad's hunting cabin kind of an hour 0:08:57.836 --> 0:09:01.116 north of where we grew up. And he just kind 0:09:01.116 --> 0:09:02.276 of let me go in there, and I was like, 0:09:02.476 --> 0:09:03.956 I don't know what I'm doing. If I go back 0:09:03.956 --> 0:09:05.596 to school to be a music teacher, i'd have to 0:09:05.596 --> 0:09:07.916 wait to the fall, and this was right in the winter, 0:09:08.676 --> 0:09:11.236 and so he just let me set up there, and 0:09:11.276 --> 0:09:12.756 I just had my little setup in a couple of 0:09:12.756 --> 0:09:16.196 guitars and and I'd done some engineering and some making 0:09:16.236 --> 0:09:18.916 some records before, but I had kind of just lost 0:09:18.956 --> 0:09:20.236 some of the gear and so it was a very 0:09:20.356 --> 0:09:24.316 very meager setup, which ended up being a really great thing. 0:09:25.076 --> 0:09:27.476 And so the over kind of a three month period, 0:09:27.516 --> 0:09:29.276 just kind of being there by myself unless my dad 0:09:29.276 --> 0:09:30.916 would stop by over the weekend to work on a 0:09:30.916 --> 0:09:34.916 sawmill or something like. I was just there letting myself 0:09:34.996 --> 0:09:38.196 be bored, allowing myself to have a day where nothing 0:09:38.276 --> 0:09:40.156 happened for the first time of my life and not 0:09:40.276 --> 0:09:42.716 have any guilt about it. It was just the first 0:09:42.716 --> 0:09:45.356 time I really truly was on my own. Beautiful. Do 0:09:45.356 --> 0:09:49.436 you think of it as an enjoyable time? Yes, I 0:09:49.476 --> 0:09:53.636 mean there were there was boredom. There was like sort 0:09:53.636 --> 0:09:56.836 of just sitting there, maybe an unhealthy amount of a 0:09:56.876 --> 0:09:59.196 lone time or something like that. But I do. I 0:09:59.236 --> 0:10:02.676 look back at it as a very very positive experience 0:10:03.276 --> 0:10:06.556 to let go of a lot of things too. I 0:10:06.596 --> 0:10:08.876 was making it for myself. I had kind of given 0:10:08.916 --> 0:10:12.156 up the idea of chasing anymore. And of course once 0:10:12.156 --> 0:10:18.116 you're once you're done with chasing, you're arriving. Yes, giving 0:10:18.236 --> 0:10:21.156 up on that idea. What would your days be like 0:10:21.156 --> 0:10:23.996 like if you're alone for three months? Yeah, I'd wake 0:10:24.116 --> 0:10:28.596 up and probably crack three eggs and some venison, you know, 0:10:28.636 --> 0:10:31.676 because we'd do some hunting up there. But there was 0:10:31.676 --> 0:10:33.436 a little TV up there in a DVD player, so 0:10:33.476 --> 0:10:36.116 I'd watch a lot of The Northern Exposure And strangely 0:10:36.116 --> 0:10:40.076 it's my favorite like thing, novel, book, show, whatever, of 0:10:40.076 --> 0:10:42.396 all time, because you know, so there might be a 0:10:42.436 --> 0:10:45.916 day where I only watch DVDs and you know, smoke 0:10:45.956 --> 0:10:50.116 a joint and drink six beers for no reason or something. 0:10:51.316 --> 0:10:53.356 Then then a day I would just wake up, go 0:10:53.436 --> 0:10:56.476 sit on the computer stool and just be there in it. 0:10:56.796 --> 0:10:59.956 You know, we're reworking and mixing and doing that thing 0:10:59.956 --> 0:11:03.156 on that album I'm seeing about growing up and the 0:11:03.196 --> 0:11:06.836 amount of boredom involved, you know, get home from school 0:11:06.916 --> 0:11:09.996 and ye, what are you're supposed to do. Yeah, it's 0:11:10.076 --> 0:11:12.956 like what do you do? So I'm wondering if if 0:11:12.996 --> 0:11:17.916 putting yourself in that state somehow taps into something that 0:11:17.996 --> 0:11:20.676 a lot of people feel more often than they realize. 0:11:20.756 --> 0:11:24.116 That's just a real I mean, you did an extreme 0:11:24.196 --> 0:11:29.156 thing by regular standards in our society, but it took 0:11:29.196 --> 0:11:31.596 you to a place that's probably not so different than 0:11:32.756 --> 0:11:36.436 growing up in the United States, but without having anybody 0:11:36.436 --> 0:11:38.516 like get outside or yeah, you do this or you 0:11:38.596 --> 0:11:41.116 do that. Yeah, my parents gave it. My dad and 0:11:41.116 --> 0:11:45.836 this case gave me a very supportive experience, or supported experience, 0:11:45.876 --> 0:11:47.996 i should say. And it was it was that that 0:11:48.076 --> 0:11:51.436 boredom was like, huh, you spent a lot of time 0:11:51.476 --> 0:11:55.356 being busy and overworked, and I just I just recently 0:11:55.396 --> 0:11:58.036 had quit a job at a kitchen that had really 0:11:58.156 --> 0:12:01.356 created new anger and stress in my in my mind 0:12:01.396 --> 0:12:04.436 and body. You know, never have I been that stressed 0:12:04.516 --> 0:12:07.636 or angry or overworked. And and so I think it 0:12:07.756 --> 0:12:09.116 was I just sort of looked at as like, well, 0:12:09.236 --> 0:12:12.356 I don't know what I'm doing, and I there was 0:12:12.396 --> 0:12:13.956 something going on with these songs where I was like, 0:12:13.996 --> 0:12:16.476 this is a new thing for me. Just keep working. 0:12:17.036 --> 0:12:21.356 And I think just it was a correct, correct recipe 0:12:21.756 --> 0:12:24.596 to be in the right headspace to make the right 0:12:24.716 --> 0:12:27.196 kind of music. Did you do you toured the first album? 0:12:27.316 --> 0:12:31.116 Toured the first album pretty a lot, you know, that 0:12:31.196 --> 0:12:33.756 kind of smashed me up a bit, but not completely 0:12:33.836 --> 0:12:36.316 smashed me up. And so we were making the second record. 0:12:36.356 --> 0:12:39.156 By then, I was using a lot of musicians. You know, 0:12:39.196 --> 0:12:40.876 I grew up playing in the jazz bands and I 0:12:40.876 --> 0:12:43.276 had a nine piece band in high school to all 0:12:43.396 --> 0:12:45.756 my friends with horns and everything. So it's a natural 0:12:45.916 --> 0:12:49.716 inclination to want to be around more people. But what 0:12:49.876 --> 0:12:53.596 naturally happened is I started to share some of the 0:12:54.076 --> 0:12:57.636 load of the songwriting and but also very holding on 0:12:57.756 --> 0:13:02.156 really tight and and this isn't a negative thing, but 0:13:02.196 --> 0:13:05.756 I think in many ways I've stepped farther and farther 0:13:05.916 --> 0:13:10.396 and farther back from the chief position of making the records. 0:13:11.236 --> 0:13:15.036 And It's funny, after after making this, these four records, 0:13:15.236 --> 0:13:18.316 I'm feeling like maybe a return to just hanging out 0:13:18.396 --> 0:13:20.196 on my own for a for a year or something, 0:13:20.236 --> 0:13:22.516 to get back to that place, because you know, I 0:13:22.596 --> 0:13:25.276 so often would grow up play guitar and write a song, 0:13:25.356 --> 0:13:28.636 sit and write, write this song down it. It went 0:13:28.716 --> 0:13:32.036 from sort of that with the first record to almost 0:13:32.076 --> 0:13:35.556 none of that with where we're at now in the 0:13:35.636 --> 0:13:39.756 last you know, this this process this ten years, and 0:13:39.836 --> 0:13:43.116 so I saw a lot of a lot of the 0:13:43.156 --> 0:13:45.516 death of the ego in a good way and then 0:13:45.596 --> 0:13:49.996 also being lost because at times because I didn't have 0:13:50.036 --> 0:13:52.596 that connection to like what I knew was right when 0:13:52.636 --> 0:13:54.236 I was all by myself, what I knew, what I 0:13:54.276 --> 0:13:57.276 didn't have to answer to or you know, like I 0:13:57.276 --> 0:14:00.556 didn't have Chris like and that sucks or that's really great, 0:14:00.916 --> 0:14:04.676 either one or problematic answers for me sometimes when you're 0:14:04.716 --> 0:14:08.836 when you're drifting farther aback away from your your frontal ego. 0:14:10.156 --> 0:14:14.396 And so, you know, I see that happening in the 0:14:14.476 --> 0:14:17.516 last ten years, that arc of sort of stepping back, 0:14:17.796 --> 0:14:21.756 getting the music bigger and experimenting more and more. But 0:14:21.836 --> 0:14:23.596 I'm feeling like, you know, I can't predict what the 0:14:23.636 --> 0:14:25.036 next year is going to be like, but I'm feeling 0:14:25.076 --> 0:14:27.236 like a little bit of a return to that interesting 0:14:27.316 --> 0:14:29.836 that that place that's coming up kind of is the 0:14:29.916 --> 0:14:33.276 Hunting Lodge still there? It is than ever. I get 0:14:33.276 --> 0:14:34.996 along with my dad so well, but I don't think 0:14:34.996 --> 0:14:38.396 it's it would be the same situation. He's built a 0:14:38.436 --> 0:14:40.676 big barn, he's got a sawmill, and he's got like 0:14:40.676 --> 0:14:42.876 four hundred maple trees tapped up there, and so he's 0:14:42.876 --> 0:14:45.676 always got people around and and plus we've sort of 0:14:45.876 --> 0:14:48.796 we've sort of made April Base into into that zone. 0:14:48.836 --> 0:14:51.996 Even though we're not quite I don't quite have my 0:14:52.076 --> 0:14:54.916 own room yet. We're working on that. That's in the 0:14:54.956 --> 0:14:57.916 next year. So we'll be right back after the break 0:14:57.996 --> 0:15:04.476 with more from Justin Vernon, Christmassina, and Rick Rubin. We're 0:15:04.476 --> 0:15:07.276 back with more of Rick Rubin's conversation with Justin Vernon 0:15:07.316 --> 0:15:11.076 and Chrismasina, who showed detail on Bonivar's latest release from 0:15:11.116 --> 0:15:15.756 twenty nineteen. I comma, there's a million things to ask 0:15:15.796 --> 0:15:19.316 you about the past, but for a moment, how do 0:15:19.436 --> 0:15:22.836 songs typically start? Would you say your do you jam? 0:15:23.716 --> 0:15:27.156 There's some improvisation in you know, studio setting, like maybe 0:15:27.196 --> 0:15:31.196 not like instruments and stuff, but maybe some drum machines 0:15:31.276 --> 0:15:36.916 and just looking for odd recipes that could create something 0:15:36.996 --> 0:15:40.996 very surprising. It's probably our favorite thing to do, doing 0:15:41.036 --> 0:15:43.996 some just playing in general. I grew up writing a 0:15:44.036 --> 0:15:46.116 lot of songs on guitar, and it sort of just 0:15:46.156 --> 0:15:48.596 stopped happening that way. And I've been playing a lot 0:15:48.596 --> 0:15:51.156 more guitar lately and songs are trickling out, but there's 0:15:51.156 --> 0:15:54.756 still this thing. I think as I've developed more as 0:15:54.796 --> 0:15:58.036 a singer than maybe I was before, or where I 0:15:58.156 --> 0:16:01.636 really started to hone in on the voice part of it, 0:16:02.116 --> 0:16:05.916 I think I became less. It became less important for 0:16:05.956 --> 0:16:09.436 me to write the song and be this songwriter person, 0:16:09.436 --> 0:16:11.396 and more like, how do we how do I get 0:16:11.436 --> 0:16:15.156 my voice on something that sounds interesting to my voice, 0:16:15.236 --> 0:16:17.396 if you will, And so a lot of we do 0:16:17.436 --> 0:16:21.276 a lot of improvisation or budding two things together, like 0:16:21.316 --> 0:16:23.916 have a saxophone go through a harmonizer while I'm playing 0:16:23.916 --> 0:16:26.836 it and singing it, or just looking for things to 0:16:27.556 --> 0:16:32.236 clash or to make something that sounded brand new so 0:16:32.276 --> 0:16:35.716 that it would be exciting to sing on. That's been 0:16:36.396 --> 0:16:38.276 the main process, you know. And every once in a while, 0:16:38.316 --> 0:16:41.236 maybe just a guitar riff would would PLoP in and 0:16:41.716 --> 0:16:45.116 create a song in and of itself. But I'd say 0:16:45.156 --> 0:16:46.996 that's been our biggest way of doing it, is just 0:16:47.076 --> 0:16:51.236 looking for moments that seemed magical. Yeah, and it sounds 0:16:51.236 --> 0:16:54.356 like mainly musical moments, so you'd be working on track 0:16:54.396 --> 0:16:58.996 ideas essentially with the idea, does it start with that 0:16:59.036 --> 0:17:01.716 feeling of this is interesting or does it start with 0:17:01.996 --> 0:17:05.516 this is interesting I have I can see what I 0:17:05.556 --> 0:17:09.796 would do on top both every times different and sometimes 0:17:09.796 --> 0:17:11.676 just something sounds good so you want to keep it around, 0:17:11.716 --> 0:17:13.316 but you're like, well, this isn't really going to be 0:17:13.356 --> 0:17:16.156 for this project, so we don't know what to do 0:17:16.196 --> 0:17:19.316 with those ones exactly. Like the two generally for USCO 0:17:19.596 --> 0:17:22.836 go hand in hand. It's like when we hear something 0:17:22.996 --> 0:17:25.756 that we've somehow come up with that sounds really interesting, 0:17:25.876 --> 0:17:29.556 justin immediately wants to sing on it, and that's like, okay, 0:17:29.756 --> 0:17:32.596 we're we're into something here. That's kind of the biggest 0:17:33.116 --> 0:17:36.276 giveaway that we're onto something. Yeah, I might like a 0:17:36.276 --> 0:17:38.076 lot of things. And again, if I don't have anything 0:17:38.116 --> 0:17:40.356 to sing on it, it's sort of like, well maybe 0:17:40.356 --> 0:17:42.436 we should give this to someone else. Yeah, and like 0:17:42.636 --> 0:17:44.916 and any like, whenever you try and get him to 0:17:44.916 --> 0:17:47.076 sing on something, it's like not a good not a 0:17:47.116 --> 0:17:50.316 good vibe it springs forth. Yeah, absolutely, when it's there, 0:17:50.356 --> 0:17:52.196 it's there, and it's not it's really not I think 0:17:52.236 --> 0:17:54.556 with the With the previous record, twenty two million, we 0:17:54.596 --> 0:17:57.316 did a lot more jamming. Granted it was over like 0:17:57.356 --> 0:17:59.196 a period of five years that we were writing that 0:17:59.236 --> 0:18:02.836 record or something, but there were some pretty extensive, long 0:18:03.396 --> 0:18:05.956 multi person jams that would happen that we got some 0:18:05.996 --> 0:18:07.796 stuff out of. But that was kind of a way 0:18:07.796 --> 0:18:10.916 where Justin I think was maybe struggling with with trying 0:18:10.916 --> 0:18:13.996 to get his songwriting going again. That was a way 0:18:13.996 --> 0:18:15.596 for us to do it. It was bringing a lot 0:18:15.596 --> 0:18:17.756 of people, make as much noise as we can for 0:18:17.756 --> 0:18:20.276 a long period of time and see what happens, and 0:18:20.476 --> 0:18:22.316 if there's any moments that pop through you can that 0:18:22.396 --> 0:18:24.316 you could then like, hey what about that. Let's go 0:18:24.396 --> 0:18:27.596 focus right in that little moment that happened. Either use 0:18:27.636 --> 0:18:29.676 it directly. Usually that's what we do. We use that 0:18:29.676 --> 0:18:32.636 moment directly and shape around it and like you know. 0:18:32.836 --> 0:18:36.916 But this this album was definitely a lot more there's 0:18:36.996 --> 0:18:39.596 more playing. We entered with a lot more intention on 0:18:39.676 --> 0:18:43.156 a number of levels with this this record, the newest 0:18:43.196 --> 0:18:45.316 record or more of the touring band than ever before 0:18:45.356 --> 0:18:49.836 too yep, which was a great, great addition. Yeah, But 0:18:49.916 --> 0:18:53.436 I think sonically, I think we've kind of quietly made 0:18:53.476 --> 0:18:55.756 an active choice to not mess with his voice as 0:18:55.836 --> 0:18:59.356 much as we had previously. We knew I think that 0:18:59.356 --> 0:19:02.036 we were going to focus on the lyric content more 0:19:02.076 --> 0:19:05.436 than we ever have. Not that we weren't saying something 0:19:05.476 --> 0:19:07.756 before or Justin wasn't saying something, is that we wanted 0:19:07.756 --> 0:19:09.076 it to be heard, and we wanted it to be 0:19:09.636 --> 0:19:12.556 maybe clearer than it ever had been. Yeah, And so 0:19:12.596 --> 0:19:14.676 I think with those may have been the two most 0:19:14.716 --> 0:19:20.356 like sort of unspoken decisions for this record. We were 0:19:20.356 --> 0:19:23.876 all aligned on that and everything else just came so 0:19:23.956 --> 0:19:27.276 much easier. Yeah, Yeah, it was so much more, I 0:19:27.316 --> 0:19:31.436 don't know, just free and easy. It was great. It 0:19:31.516 --> 0:19:35.316 sounds like that can be going forward. It sounds like 0:19:35.396 --> 0:19:37.796 there's that could be our job. Yeah. I think it 0:19:37.836 --> 0:19:40.116 was a huge realization with with this, with finishing this 0:19:40.196 --> 0:19:42.956 record as not as quickly but so much faster than 0:19:42.996 --> 0:19:45.556 the previous one. Yes, that we were just like, oh, 0:19:45.596 --> 0:19:47.116 this is what it can be all the time. Brad, 0:19:47.156 --> 0:19:48.756 Brad Cook and I talked about I mean all three 0:19:48.756 --> 0:19:50.436 of us did, but yeah, Brad and I talked about 0:19:50.436 --> 0:19:52.676 that a lot of just like this is what we 0:19:52.676 --> 0:19:55.276 can make it. Every time there was a breakthrough. Yeah, 0:19:55.276 --> 0:19:57.316 this is all we got to do every time it's great. 0:19:57.716 --> 0:19:59.676 Did you record many more than the songs that are 0:19:59.716 --> 0:20:01.636 on the album or the songs on the album? Pretty much? 0:20:01.676 --> 0:20:06.116 It that's pretty much it is? It usually that way? Yeah, 0:20:06.156 --> 0:20:08.796 I think we pretty pretty early on know whether something's 0:20:08.796 --> 0:20:10.996 going to get chased down further or not. So we 0:20:11.036 --> 0:20:14.116 still have like fragments that will probably revisit in a 0:20:14.236 --> 0:20:16.636 year or something. But from the yeah, I'm not sure. 0:20:16.676 --> 0:20:18.756 I'm not. I don't have this feeling like there's like 0:20:19.316 --> 0:20:22.556 great songs waiting us. We sort of like worked on 0:20:22.636 --> 0:20:25.236 what we worked on. What was the thought on the title? 0:20:25.316 --> 0:20:29.196 By the way, man, it's a it's it's really a 0:20:29.236 --> 0:20:32.036 lot about this whole self care and and caring about 0:20:32.196 --> 0:20:36.796 your friend thing. It's to me, it's that's the thing 0:20:36.836 --> 0:20:39.116 that Bob Marley introduced me to when I was the kid. 0:20:39.196 --> 0:20:42.956 Is this I and I. It's I and I, it's we, 0:20:43.676 --> 0:20:46.436 You are me, I am you. Uh, this is all 0:20:46.476 --> 0:20:49.476 of us kind of thing together, this this sort of 0:20:49.636 --> 0:20:53.596 responsibility to one another, maybe responsibilities and even strong enough 0:20:53.636 --> 0:20:55.996 a word, it's like we are connected. It's not just 0:20:56.036 --> 0:20:58.556 like we choose to be or not. When we heard ourselves, 0:20:58.596 --> 0:21:01.196 I feel like it has a reaction to others, and 0:21:01.236 --> 0:21:04.076