WEBVTT - Al Schmitt 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:12.959 Welcome, welcome, welcome back to the Bob Left Podcast. My 0:00:13.240 --> 0:00:18.880 chest today is truly legendary. The Dean of engineers Al Schmidt. Wow, 0:00:18.960 --> 0:00:21.279 thank you, thank you for having me. Okay, happy to 0:00:21.320 --> 0:00:26.920 be here. What work are you most proud of? WHOA, Well, 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:30.640 I think all the records I did with Mancini, Uh, 0:00:31.360 --> 0:00:36.680 lots of the stuff I did with Um Diana Crawl great, 0:00:38.560 --> 0:00:46.040 some great albums with Streissan, Um Steely, Dan Total. I 0:00:46.080 --> 0:00:48.840 mean it goes on. There's so many of them, said 0:00:49.159 --> 0:00:53.000 I look up, Okay, some of the great jazz records 0:00:53.000 --> 0:00:57.040 you know, Bill Evans and and uh, Jerry Mulligan, Chet Baker, 0:00:57.160 --> 0:01:01.200 those kind of things. Yeah, those very Let's drill down 0:01:01.280 --> 0:01:05.080 to literally one of my, if not my favorite record 0:01:05.080 --> 0:01:08.240 of all time, which is Jackson Brown Lead for the Sky. Right. 0:01:08.680 --> 0:01:12.000 You started working with Jackson on his second album, right 0:01:12.120 --> 0:01:15.080 Try every Man. How did that come together? Well? What 0:01:15.160 --> 0:01:17.640 happened was he was working in another engineering and they 0:01:17.640 --> 0:01:20.880 were having problems getting a mix on it and he 0:01:21.040 --> 0:01:24.040 called me and uh, I had just finished I think 0:01:24.080 --> 0:01:29.160 the Dave Mason album alone together. Yeah, but he called 0:01:29.200 --> 0:01:31.840 me and and said, you know what, I give it 0:01:31.880 --> 0:01:35.520 a shot. And he knew you from alone together. Yes, okay, 0:01:35.760 --> 0:01:39.120 so h yeah, so we got along really well. I 0:01:39.240 --> 0:01:42.240 mixed the record. It came out very nice and came 0:01:42.280 --> 0:01:45.319 out so then when he was getting ready to do 0:01:45.800 --> 0:01:48.600 Late for the Sky, he called me and asked if 0:01:48.600 --> 0:01:51.560 I would co produce it with him, and I said sure. 0:01:52.080 --> 0:01:55.200 So that was it. Okay, So you're both a producer 0:01:55.760 --> 0:01:59.720 and an engineer. Explain the difference of your roles in 0:01:59.760 --> 0:02:07.320 the capacities. Well, a real producer is the guy that 0:02:07.640 --> 0:02:14.440 UM hires, the contractor who lives to musicians. UM looks 0:02:14.480 --> 0:02:17.799 for the material if the artist is not a songwriter, 0:02:18.320 --> 0:02:21.840 trying to find songs for him. Fortunately with Jackson, he 0:02:21.880 --> 0:02:27.360 wrote all his own stuff. UM. A producer overseas everything 0:02:27.480 --> 0:02:31.239 make sure that everybody's on time, and you know, budgets 0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:34.200 are being taken care of and and uh and kind 0:02:34.200 --> 0:02:37.320 of as a director on a film, similar to that, 0:02:37.639 --> 0:02:40.520 an engineer is the guy that captures all the sounds, 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:44.200 the vocals, the guitars, the drums. He's the guy that's 0:02:44.240 --> 0:02:45.920 got to get it and make it sound good and 0:02:46.000 --> 0:02:49.880 make it sound very musical and and pleasant to the 0:02:50.160 --> 0:02:53.240 is hopefully okay. But on a record, because there are 0:02:53.240 --> 0:02:56.000 a number of records you were producer, especially in the seventies. 0:02:56.480 --> 0:02:59.200 What roles did you perform on those albums that were 0:02:59.280 --> 0:03:03.200 different from being an engineer? When when I was just 0:03:03.360 --> 0:03:05.880 a producer in the U, I guess it was the 0:03:07.440 --> 0:03:13.040 mid sixties. On. My job then was to I had 0:03:13.040 --> 0:03:22.000 eleven artists, um, and they went the Sam Cook, Hugo Montenegro, Um, 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:26.799 the women Folk, Glen Yarborough, UM. I just went on 0:03:26.880 --> 0:03:31.519 and on. H So my job is to put put 0:03:31.520 --> 0:03:35.080 in budgets for each album. Back then most artists did 0:03:35.120 --> 0:03:39.760 two albums a year, not like today. So I had 0:03:39.800 --> 0:03:43.000 to put in budgets for the artists. For the albums 0:03:43.240 --> 0:03:46.240 I had the artist that didn't write material, I had 0:03:46.240 --> 0:03:50.520 a fine material for So every Monday was publishers State 0:03:50.640 --> 0:03:53.120 of all the publishers. Well, let's go back just a 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:55.960 couple of steps. You said you had eleven acts. How 0:03:55.960 --> 0:03:58.640 did you end up with eleven x M? R c 0:03:58.840 --> 0:04:02.640 A said you think these guys okay? So at the 0:04:02.760 --> 0:04:05.160 time you were on staff at r CU, I was 0:04:05.200 --> 0:04:08.400 a stand producer. When what was your tenure at r 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:13.200 c A from when to win as a stand producer? Well, 0:04:13.240 --> 0:04:17.279 I think I became a stand producer in nineteen sixty 0:04:17.480 --> 0:04:21.599 one and I was there until I left I think 0:04:22.560 --> 0:04:26.880 sixties six seven. Okay, Now in that era seven, what 0:04:27.080 --> 0:04:29.279 I know, to touch the board you have to be 0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:32.640 a union guy, right, absolutely, And that's why I went 0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:35.799 on became a producer. I couldn't touch the board anymore. 0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:38.360 And when I did, I get called up on the 0:04:38.480 --> 0:04:42.320 carpet and they would say, don't do that anymore. And okay, 0:04:42.800 --> 0:04:45.640 So you were at r c A from like sixty 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:49.720 one to the late sixties as a producer as a producer, 0:04:50.480 --> 0:04:55.000 but you were literally working for them, yes, okay. After 0:04:55.120 --> 0:04:59.760 that you went independent, right okay? And then before that 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:04.080 are you independent? Um? Yes? Okay? So what made you 0:05:04.120 --> 0:05:07.080 decide to go to work for r c Actually, before 0:05:07.120 --> 0:05:11.040 that I was not independent. I had worked for Radio Recorders, 0:05:11.120 --> 0:05:13.480 which was a recording to them. That's how I got 0:05:13.560 --> 0:05:18.040 involved with henrw Mancini and UH and the Peter Gun 0:05:18.200 --> 0:05:22.560 record and UH and I wound up then doing all 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:27.960 of Hanks things recordings and that's when r C A 0:05:28.320 --> 0:05:31.960 opened their studio. They hired me. I was the first 0:05:32.720 --> 0:05:36.880 higher to work in the news studios at r C A. 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:39.159 And it was on the corner of the Sunset and 0:05:39.320 --> 0:05:44.880 Vine and he had a long time the seven NBC building, right, Yeah, 0:05:45.000 --> 0:05:47.840 And it was when I was working at was they 0:05:47.839 --> 0:05:50.279 had the National News at night or the late news 0:05:50.360 --> 0:05:54.200 at night, and you bet your life and crowdcho I 0:05:54.200 --> 0:05:57.560 would crowd almost every day down in the hallways. And 0:05:57.600 --> 0:06:01.479 every time you go buy mumble something, have me laughing 0:06:01.560 --> 0:06:05.599 all the magic word of the day. Um so. But 0:06:05.640 --> 0:06:10.480 at the time, our CIA was headquartered in New York, right, yes, Okay, 0:06:10.520 --> 0:06:13.000 so that you were when you came on as a producer, 0:06:14.000 --> 0:06:15.640 you were in the West Coast, was there? You were 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:18.240 the first producer on the West Coast? No, I was 0:06:18.279 --> 0:06:21.120 the first engineer I hide on the West Coast. Yeah. 0:06:21.120 --> 0:06:23.960 I wasn't producing at that point. I was just engineering. 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:27.080 So you worked for our CIA as an engineer or 0:06:27.080 --> 0:06:30.640 a salary right, and then once you became a producer 0:06:31.160 --> 0:06:33.839 you couldn't touch the board anyway, exactly. Okay. How long 0:06:33.880 --> 0:06:36.840 did you work for them before you became a producer? Uh? 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:44.720 And a half years? And what caused the switch? Um? 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:47.560 What cause the switch was people would ask for me 0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:50.880 on dates all the time as an engineer, and I'd 0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:53.440 be the engineer and they'd come in and produce a 0:06:53.440 --> 0:06:57.440 committee behind the phone for threality. And I was doing 0:06:57.440 --> 0:07:01.000 all the work, talking to legal musicians, and we knew everybody. 0:07:01.000 --> 0:07:03.039 And if you make a mistake, you know we're on 0:07:03.080 --> 0:07:06.160 the honest system. Raise your hand. You know this guy's 0:07:06.480 --> 0:07:10.760 talking to book or or a bookie or something. He's 0:07:10.760 --> 0:07:13.920 not paying attention to what's going on here. So and 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:16.760 they were getting all the credit and everything, and I thought, uh, 0:07:17.200 --> 0:07:21.600 so I went to my boss, my boss at that time, 0:07:21.640 --> 0:07:25.560 with Steve Scholz. And Steve is the guy that signed 0:07:25.960 --> 0:07:30.880 Elvis Presley r C A. Yeah, he was major guy 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:33.400 at at r C and I was he in New York, Rilla. 0:07:34.040 --> 0:07:36.680 He was part of the time New York, part of 0:07:36.680 --> 0:07:38.920 the time in l A. At this particular time, it 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:42.120 was in l A. So I went and I talked 0:07:42.120 --> 0:07:45.640 to him. I had gotten an offer from Bill Putnam, 0:07:45.680 --> 0:07:49.120 who owned the studio. Um he was getting ready to 0:07:49.240 --> 0:07:53.400 kind of slowed down, I guess, and he was going 0:07:53.440 --> 0:07:57.120 to hire me from r C A over the United 0:07:57.840 --> 0:08:00.840 and uh and so it at lot more money than 0:08:00.880 --> 0:08:04.120 I was making. So I told Steve that I wanted 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:08.920 to be a producer and and uh, if if I 0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:11.760 didn't get a promotion, I was going to leave. So 0:08:12.120 --> 0:08:16.840 we worked out a deal that okay, they who do that, 0:08:16.880 --> 0:08:19.840 but I have to bring in an engineer and break 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:23.880 him in on all the Mancini dates, you know, because 0:08:23.920 --> 0:08:27.320 he was the top guy then and you know. And 0:08:28.080 --> 0:08:30.280 so I said, fine. So there was a guy at 0:08:30.320 --> 0:08:33.480 Ready Records that I knew, Jim Malloy, who later on 0:08:33.600 --> 0:08:37.120 became a big time producer in country music and one 0:08:37.200 --> 0:08:40.360 Grammys and did the Paint Panther record and quite a 0:08:40.400 --> 0:08:42.200 few other things. But but he had a lot of 0:08:42.240 --> 0:08:44.240 talent and nothing was going on with him there, and 0:08:44.559 --> 0:08:47.040 and I liked him, so I talked him into coming 0:08:47.080 --> 0:08:50.800 over and then on all the early charade and those 0:08:50.840 --> 0:08:53.920 things men say, anythings that he did, I sat next 0:08:53.960 --> 0:08:56.599 to him and showed him how I set up and 0:08:56.720 --> 0:08:59.680 what I did. And then then I was able to 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:05.920 uh move into doing just producing and uh and I 0:09:05.960 --> 0:09:08.319 got away front it. Okay, okay, no one could be 0:09:08.400 --> 0:09:10.040 as good as you. But how long did it take 0:09:10.080 --> 0:09:14.000 to get Malloy up to uh the right level? I 0:09:14.040 --> 0:09:17.520 was with maybe three big sessions quickly. Yeah, it was 0:09:17.559 --> 0:09:21.240 pretty quick. He was. He was really good. Okay, so 0:09:21.320 --> 0:09:24.040 now you're going to be a producer. Okay, you're not 0:09:24.080 --> 0:09:26.599 going to touch the board anymore. Tell us how you 0:09:26.679 --> 0:09:29.520 end up with eleven acts? Well, they give they wind 0:09:29.559 --> 0:09:31.600 up giving me acts, you know, And that's that's the 0:09:31.640 --> 0:09:35.200 first thing. Um. The first record I made that I 0:09:35.240 --> 0:09:39.240 produced was by H. H. B. Barnham Um and we 0:09:39.360 --> 0:09:41.360 did a thing called take Me Out of the Ballgame, 0:09:41.400 --> 0:09:44.280 and we did a funky version of that. It was 0:09:44.440 --> 0:09:49.719 just the start of the season we put that out. Then. Uh. 0:09:49.880 --> 0:09:55.440 Then I just wound up getting um artist given to me, 0:09:55.559 --> 0:09:59.360 you know, like, Um, I went to dinner one night 0:09:59.400 --> 0:10:02.200 with Steve Olds and and and and like the big 0:10:02.240 --> 0:10:05.800 Posts from New York Show The Imperial and Eddie Fisher. 0:10:06.240 --> 0:10:11.440 The next thing I know, I'm producing Eddie Fisher. So 0:10:11.640 --> 0:10:14.600 you know, I was. It's not my kind of thing 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:17.400 that that I wouldn't go out and normally buy an 0:10:17.480 --> 0:10:21.440 Eddie Fisher record. Uh, but this is it. So I 0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:24.040 just went what about trying to make the best record 0:10:24.080 --> 0:10:27.880 I could with Eddie Fisher? Okay, So did they have 0:10:28.040 --> 0:10:32.520 you signing any acts? I could? And and uh I did. 0:10:32.600 --> 0:10:37.160 I turned one or two small acts for small percentages, 0:10:37.440 --> 0:10:41.280 but nothing ever happened. Okay, So you're working for our 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:47.200 c A. You're totally on salary, totally okay. So the 0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:49.640 record hits, you're not getting any more money, Yeah, yeah, 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:53.600 you do. You get you can make five thousand dollar 0:10:53.679 --> 0:10:56.280 bonus at the end of the year, and I made 0:10:56.280 --> 0:10:58.959 that every year. So I went from making as an 0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:02.880 engineer because you out it over time, seven thousand a 0:11:02.960 --> 0:11:05.880 year after was a lot of money, very very good, 0:11:05.920 --> 0:11:10.760 to seventeen thousand, five hundred salary and five thousand as 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:16.000 a bonus. So five was it was the dream there. 0:11:16.200 --> 0:11:18.240 The dream was to be a producer because they were 0:11:18.240 --> 0:11:20.640 the guys that were getting all the glory stuff. You know, 0:11:20.720 --> 0:11:24.480 you think, oh, yeah, that's producers. They got all of uh, 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:29.520 the authority they hired, you know, I don't know whatever 0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:34.600 it was. It was a and something I always wanted 0:11:34.640 --> 0:11:36.360 to do, and when I got into it, I wasn't 0:11:36.440 --> 0:11:40.120 sure that when I was doing it that this was 0:11:40.160 --> 0:11:42.800 really what I wanted to do and that that story 0:11:43.320 --> 0:11:46.679 evolves a little bit. Okay, So you're now the producer 0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:50.760 to what degree? You know, over the last fifty years, 0:11:50.760 --> 0:11:53.840 things have varied, been the error of the producer, in 0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:57.160 the error of the engineer producer. So when you were 0:11:57.200 --> 0:12:00.160 the producer other than making sure that your God was 0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:02.680 getting the sound right. And you're in the studio, what 0:12:02.760 --> 0:12:04.800 kind of input would you give? Well, I was the 0:12:04.840 --> 0:12:09.280 guy that hired the arranger. You know, Nels had Nelson 0:12:09.360 --> 0:12:14.520 Riddle for the first date. Um, I found a song Faddy. 0:12:14.760 --> 0:12:18.160 After going to maybe two thousand songs, I found one 0:12:18.200 --> 0:12:21.080 I thought that might be able to work for him, 0:12:21.200 --> 0:12:25.000 and we did. It came out and uh it uh. 0:12:25.120 --> 0:12:28.720 It made the top twenty uh and and uh singles 0:12:29.400 --> 0:12:31.319 uh and it kind of brought him back a little 0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:35.320 and helped that way. UM, what do you do you 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:40.440 you you you have an artist. So if he writes songs, 0:12:40.480 --> 0:12:43.640 then you figure out, all right, let's hear the songs. 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:46.720 You figure out which the best songs are and which 0:12:46.760 --> 0:12:50.000 ones you want to do. UM. If he doesn't right, 0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:52.880 then you have to look for material for him and 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:59.199 find songs that that he could do. UM. For the 0:12:59.200 --> 0:13:02.320 reason I is being in the studio myself a fraction 0:13:02.440 --> 0:13:06.600 of the average engineer. Never mind yourself. I find most 0:13:06.640 --> 0:13:11.480 engineers are relatively passive. They'll do what the whatever the 0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:14.040 act says. And I find that the producer is the 0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:17.640 person who tends to say, whoa that doesn't work. Who Yeah, 0:13:17.720 --> 0:13:23.320 that has to change. Is that accurate? Yeah, that's very accurate. Um. 0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:27.920 You know, if I'm the engineer and there's an artist 0:13:28.080 --> 0:13:31.880 here and a producer next to me, David Foster or whatever, 0:13:33.040 --> 0:13:36.120 he's the boss. You know, it's like a director of film. 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:39.480 The producer is the boss. So he wants me to 0:13:39.559 --> 0:13:42.920 do something. I can explain why. I don't think it's 0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:45.920 a good idea, but if he insists, I do it, 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:48.800 you know, but I want them in front. Okay, So 0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:53.800 you're producing in the early sixties. Uh, is everybody cutting 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:57.000 an album or you had doing just singles or what? 0:13:57.720 --> 0:14:01.520 It's a little of both, mostly albums. Almost every artist 0:14:01.640 --> 0:14:07.080 had two albums a year, you know. So yeah, it 0:14:07.200 --> 0:14:10.200 was when you have a lot of artists. Hugo Montenegro 0:14:10.400 --> 0:14:17.080 I had at that time. Um, god, Wellegro did? That's right? 0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:19.640 Is that your record? Now? I did right right after that. 0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:23.080 I worked with him. Okay, to think, so you're working 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:25.240 with those acts. How much pressure do you get from 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:30.720 New York City to have a hit? Um? Yeah, you get. 0:14:30.960 --> 0:14:34.800 You get pressure from everybody to have a head, including yourself. 0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:38.240 You know, this is what you're striving for. You know, 0:14:38.360 --> 0:14:41.360 especially with like someone like Eddie Fisher who had not 0:14:41.680 --> 0:14:44.400 had a record in a while, hadn't had done anything 0:14:44.480 --> 0:14:48.040 or whatever. I went to a band. You you want 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:51.640 to get something that will get played on the top 0:14:51.720 --> 0:14:56.120 forty radio stations and you so you're trying to find 0:14:56.160 --> 0:15:00.040 something that's commercial, maybe sing along kind of thing. And 0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:04.000 and then of course to hire somebody like Nelson Riddle 0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:07.080 to do the arrangement. And and he was quite a 0:15:07.080 --> 0:15:12.800 big help on it. Uh yeah, it's it's not not easy. 0:15:12.800 --> 0:15:16.600 So tell me about a Monday being publishing day. I 0:15:16.800 --> 0:15:21.080 be on Monday would be publishing day. I'd I'd come in. Uh, 0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:24.520 I'd see four or five publishers that day. They'd come over. 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:28.120 I had a turntable there, and uh they would bring 0:15:28.160 --> 0:15:31.120 these songs and put them on and and listen and 0:15:31.720 --> 0:15:33.920 you know, maybe make a note on something that I 0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:38.280 put a hold on the song for an artist that 0:15:38.320 --> 0:15:42.120 I was thinking about. Uh so that would be it. 0:15:42.280 --> 0:15:45.360 And they'd be there a half hour forty medicine, next 0:15:45.400 --> 0:15:48.560 guy show up and I do that. And that's but 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:50.600 you know, someone who's listening to material, that's usually a 0:15:50.680 --> 0:15:53.960 very tedious process. It is it is, and they hit 0:15:54.000 --> 0:15:57.560 the ship ratio is very low. It's that. Yes, there's 0:15:57.600 --> 0:16:00.800 a lot of a lot of crap, you know, And 0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:05.200 that's that's the thing, uh, trying to get through things. Now, 0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:07.480 today demos tend to be highly produced. What were the 0:16:07.520 --> 0:16:12.120 demos like back then? Demos were reveling rough. Sometimes the 0:16:12.160 --> 0:16:15.360 demo just be voice and piano or guitar and and voice, 0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:20.640 or sometimes uh just a small rhythm section done in 0:16:20.680 --> 0:16:23.240 a little fucking studio. That's that's pretty much how the 0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:28.000 demos aura. So they only started. Demos only started getting 0:16:28.000 --> 0:16:32.120 better when some of the demos was starting to become hits. Right, 0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:37.080 do you remember any demos it became hits a lot 0:16:37.080 --> 0:16:38.680 of things. You know. The other thing is sometimes today 0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:41.160 with very produced demos, then they redo and it's just 0:16:41.200 --> 0:16:44.480 not as good as the demo. Absolutely, Oh that and 0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:48.400 a lot of OCAs. Okay, so let's let's go back. Okay. 0:16:49.640 --> 0:16:53.160 How often would you listen on Monday and go, man, 0:16:53.240 --> 0:16:56.800 that's a hit? Yeah? Well, I bet I listened to 0:16:58.920 --> 0:17:03.720 uh songs for Eddie Fisher before I found the one 0:17:03.760 --> 0:17:06.880 song that I thought had a chance to be a hit. 0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:10.560 So I called Eddie up right away, drove up to 0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:14.520 his house played he yeah, okay, and uh I called 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:18.640 Nelson Riddle find out when he was available book the studio. 0:17:19.480 --> 0:17:25.080 Uh let Nelson have his whatever he wanted on the date, 0:17:25.240 --> 0:17:27.080 and that was it. We went in. We cut two 0:17:27.080 --> 0:17:30.720 songs and uh, well, how did you know? What was 0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:33.040 this about? The song that you knew would be the 0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:35.119 right way? It was at a time when these sing 0:17:35.160 --> 0:17:39.800 along songs we were becoming popular, you know, um, and 0:17:39.880 --> 0:17:42.040 people that you know, you could sing along with it 0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:45.119 and that'd be the singer and then the choir would 0:17:45.119 --> 0:17:48.480 come in or the background voices. Um, and it had 0:17:48.560 --> 0:17:50.720 that feel to it. You know. It's just kind of 0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:56.160 it was called games that people play. And Okay, when 0:17:56.200 --> 0:17:59.600 you're in the studio and you're working, do you know 0:17:59.680 --> 0:18:06.840 when something's a hit? Um? Yeah, yeah, you know with yeah, 0:18:06.960 --> 0:18:10.800 you say, okay, this is a hit and then it is. Uh, 0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:12.800 then you write a per center a time on that. 0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:15.880 But there are other times when I mean I made 0:18:15.880 --> 0:18:21.600 a record with Dr John Tommy Lapoma produced it. Uh, 0:18:21.840 --> 0:18:24.040 keep the music simple. It was a single. We did 0:18:24.040 --> 0:18:26.639 the album and all that, but this was keep the 0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:31.399 music simple. And if we all I thought it was 0:18:31.440 --> 0:18:36.199 a smash when out there and died. That's when it 0:18:36.200 --> 0:18:40.800 was on Atlantic. No, no, no, it was one of others. Okay, 0:18:40.960 --> 0:18:44.280 because I find there's a very thin layer of stuff 0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:48.600 that's like an eleven we go this you and you know, yeah, 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:51.080 and then below that you can be surprised. But there's 0:18:51.040 --> 0:18:53.200 a certain level. Okay. So you're working with Eddie Fisher, 0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:55.280 who else you're working with in the early sixties, you 0:18:55.320 --> 0:18:59.879 hear him and Monterey He'll go, I did an now 0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:02.480 want him called Russian Grandual where we did all the 0:19:02.800 --> 0:19:11.600 great Russian uh composers on an album. Uh, the Limelighters. 0:19:11.680 --> 0:19:17.200 I was working with the Limelighters. That was kind of fun. Yeah. Yeah. 0:19:17.240 --> 0:19:21.560 He was a manager Ken who later managed Benson. Yeah. 0:19:22.119 --> 0:19:26.160 So okay, you're cutting an album at that point in time. 0:19:27.000 --> 0:19:29.480 How long does it take to cut an album? Back then? 0:19:30.000 --> 0:19:32.679 Very short period of time because we didn't have all 0:19:32.720 --> 0:19:35.960 the things that we have today to tuning and all 0:19:35.960 --> 0:19:39.840 those other things. So you captured a performance. We would 0:19:39.880 --> 0:19:42.920 always get in the three hour session. We get to 0:19:43.160 --> 0:19:47.159 three songs done and uh, three ours. What was the 0:19:47.160 --> 0:19:50.720 equipment like then? The equipment was great. We were going 0:19:50.800 --> 0:19:54.959 to tape obviously, and it was becoming you know, multi 0:19:55.080 --> 0:19:59.240 layer tape right then we were up to track something 0:19:59.520 --> 0:20:03.200 U so we had plenty of that. Uh. He would 0:20:03.200 --> 0:20:07.240 do three songs or four in a three hour date 0:20:07.640 --> 0:20:10.720 and everything was done at the same time, so there 0:20:10.760 --> 0:20:14.800 was no overdubs back then. It was all done live 0:20:15.520 --> 0:20:18.520 and what you got, you know, it was it was Elvis, 0:20:18.560 --> 0:20:22.000 That's what you got. Uh. Did you work with Elvis? 0:20:22.119 --> 0:20:24.480 I did on his first record out of the Service 0:20:24.960 --> 0:20:31.160 g I Blues. That was amazing. He was really cool. Well, yeah, 0:20:31.200 --> 0:20:33.120 he was great. It's the first time in the studio 0:20:33.600 --> 0:20:38.320 that I ever worked like on one artist twelve hours 0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:42.240 straight where we had foodsin in and we didn't go out. 0:20:42.320 --> 0:20:44.199 We didn't do that and it was nice. There was 0:20:44.240 --> 0:20:46.560 a lot of fun, a lot of joking around. My 0:20:46.720 --> 0:20:55.840 assistant who collected the toquis uh jewelry. Elvis had a 0:20:55.840 --> 0:20:59.359 a bracelet turcoise and my assistance had got us a 0:20:59.400 --> 0:21:02.919 beautiful he said, he said, my sister, yeah, I collect that, 0:21:02.960 --> 0:21:05.400 and he said, well, that's really a nice one. Elvis 0:21:05.440 --> 0:21:10.040 took it off and gave it so I said, Elvis, yeah, 0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:14.960 I said about the car in the garage because he 0:21:15.000 --> 0:21:18.639 had a rose roice. He laughed. We all laughed. You know. 0:21:18.800 --> 0:21:21.080 But he gave him the brace and well that was 0:21:21.119 --> 0:21:22.720 he the type of guy some people like that it 0:21:22.800 --> 0:21:25.120 don't write the row material of the singers. They don't 0:21:25.119 --> 0:21:27.840 really show up until everything's arranged. Was he the guy 0:21:27.840 --> 0:21:29.359 who was in the studio. He was there all that 0:21:29.880 --> 0:21:32.439 all day. He loved hanging out with the guys. He 0:21:32.480 --> 0:21:36.120 loved hanging out with the singers, you know, the musicians. 0:21:36.560 --> 0:21:39.120 He was a fun guy to be around. And back 0:21:39.119 --> 0:21:42.240 then he was just out of his servance. He was 0:21:42.280 --> 0:21:45.960 in great shape and you know, great sense of human 0:21:46.800 --> 0:21:50.280 life was great for him. And how how much input 0:21:50.320 --> 0:21:53.320 did he have into the recordings? Quite a bit? Really, yea, 0:21:53.840 --> 0:21:57.320 quite a bit in a sense, well in a sense 0:21:57.359 --> 0:22:00.320 that the tempos made sure that the tempos who are 0:22:00.400 --> 0:22:04.800 right uh for him? M yeah, he would he'd have input, 0:22:04.920 --> 0:22:10.280 not him, but yeah, and he would. That was the 0:22:10.280 --> 0:22:12.800 other thing. They would all work together on things, and 0:22:13.200 --> 0:22:14.879 you know, hey, what if we did this or what 0:22:14.920 --> 0:22:18.000 do we you know? And as I said, we were 0:22:18.080 --> 0:22:21.560 doing usually four songs and three hours. Here I am 0:22:21.600 --> 0:22:25.080 in the studio twelve hours and we may get one 0:22:25.160 --> 0:22:28.080 or two things done, you know. But it was Elvis 0:22:28.160 --> 0:22:33.800 and he's using his band yeah, yeah, yeah, these guys. Yeah, okay, 0:22:33.840 --> 0:22:37.800 so in the sixties prior to the Beatles hitting any 0:22:37.840 --> 0:22:39.479 other you work with Eddie Fisher, you had to hit 0:22:39.520 --> 0:22:44.960 with him. Any other memorable experiences, Oh god, as a 0:22:45.040 --> 0:22:50.960 producers and engineers producer, Yeah, I did. I did a 0:22:51.000 --> 0:22:55.200 great album with Paul Horn and Lala Scheffrin called The 0:22:55.320 --> 0:23:00.520 Chess Suite on the Mass Text, which one two Grammys. Uh. 0:23:00.600 --> 0:23:04.119 We did the Catholic Mass in chazz form and and 0:23:04.160 --> 0:23:08.920 that was we We got put down on that at first. 0:23:09.359 --> 0:23:14.399 And there's a priest in New York, father O'Connor, who 0:23:14.520 --> 0:23:17.800 was called the Chairs Priest, and we got him to 0:23:17.800 --> 0:23:20.720 write the line of notes. We got that done. Yeah, 0:23:20.760 --> 0:23:22.280 he did. He heard it in the road to Line 0:23:22.280 --> 0:23:25.240 of Notes and yeah, as I think Lolo, you know, 0:23:25.640 --> 0:23:28.400 Lolo won a Grammy and so did Paul and so 0:23:29.320 --> 0:23:32.159 was Jefferson Airplane. Your first rock act. Yeah, that was 0:23:32.200 --> 0:23:36.520 my first real rock act. I produced a group called 0:23:36.520 --> 0:23:40.600 the Astronauts and had some modern hits with what was 0:23:40.640 --> 0:23:45.200 the hit of the Astronauts baja right? I did them, 0:23:45.400 --> 0:23:47.919 and then I did a group called the Liverpool Five, 0:23:49.160 --> 0:23:53.560 British group from Liverpool. R c A didn't have a 0:23:53.760 --> 0:23:57.960 British act at that time, so we signed the five 0:23:58.000 --> 0:24:00.879 guys and they were really good, but they just nothing 0:24:00.920 --> 0:24:04.960 ever happened. Okay, So Jefferson Airplane, you make the first 0:24:05.040 --> 0:24:08.480 Jefferson Airplane with Sidney Anderson as opposed to Yeah, I 0:24:08.520 --> 0:24:10.880 didn't do that one, you did? No, No, who did 0:24:10.920 --> 0:24:14.280 that one? That? I think Dave Hassan when I they 0:24:14.320 --> 0:24:17.960 sent me up to see the group when I was 0:24:18.359 --> 0:24:20.920 staff producer at our ce A n So all this 0:24:22.000 --> 0:24:26.080 was going on in San Francisco, and I get a 0:24:26.080 --> 0:24:28.600 call to go up to San Francisco to see screwup 0:24:28.640 --> 0:24:31.240 that plane at the club. They've already made the first album. 0:24:31.280 --> 0:24:34.239 No nothing, I haven't been signed. So I go up 0:24:34.240 --> 0:24:37.920 and I see them at this club and line around 0:24:37.920 --> 0:24:43.480 the block and listen and stuff sounded great. So so really, 0:24:43.640 --> 0:24:45.840 before you thought it was not rough, it was good. 0:24:46.240 --> 0:24:48.160 I thought it was good, and I thought that, yeah, 0:24:48.240 --> 0:24:53.440 this says, hey, we need a group from San Francisco, 0:24:53.560 --> 0:24:56.440 because you know, Moby Grape was going to Columbia. And 0:24:57.600 --> 0:25:00.159 just just to be clear, you started off had a 0:25:00.200 --> 0:25:03.040 lot of success in the jazz world. What was your 0:25:03.119 --> 0:25:06.160