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Speaker 1: Welcome, welcome, welcome back to the Bob Left Podcast. My

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Speaker 1: chest today is truly legendary. The Dean of engineers Al Schmidt. Wow,

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Speaker 1: thank you, thank you for having me. Okay, happy to

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Speaker 1: be here. What work are you most proud of? WHOA, Well,

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Speaker 1: I think all the records I did with Mancini, Uh,

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Speaker 1: lots of the stuff I did with Um Diana Crawl great,

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Speaker 1: some great albums with Streissan, Um Steely, Dan Total. I

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Speaker 1: mean it goes on. There's so many of them, said

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Speaker 1: I look up, Okay, some of the great jazz records

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Speaker 1: you know, Bill Evans and and uh, Jerry Mulligan, Chet Baker,

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Speaker 1: those kind of things. Yeah, those very Let's drill down

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Speaker 1: to literally one of my, if not my favorite record

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Speaker 1: of all time, which is Jackson Brown Lead for the Sky. Right.

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Speaker 1: You started working with Jackson on his second album, right

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Speaker 1: Try every Man. How did that come together? Well? What

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Speaker 1: happened was he was working in another engineering and they

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Speaker 1: were having problems getting a mix on it and he

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Speaker 1: called me and uh, I had just finished I think

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Speaker 1: the Dave Mason album alone together. Yeah, but he called

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Speaker 1: me and and said, you know what, I give it

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Speaker 1: a shot. And he knew you from alone together. Yes, okay,

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Speaker 1: so h yeah, so we got along really well. I

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Speaker 1: mixed the record. It came out very nice and came

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Speaker 1: out so then when he was getting ready to do

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Speaker 1: Late for the Sky, he called me and asked if

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Speaker 1: I would co produce it with him, and I said sure.

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Speaker 1: So that was it. Okay, So you're both a producer

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Speaker 1: and an engineer. Explain the difference of your roles in

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Speaker 1: the capacities. Well, a real producer is the guy that

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Speaker 1: UM hires, the contractor who lives to musicians. UM looks

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Speaker 1: for the material if the artist is not a songwriter,

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Speaker 1: trying to find songs for him. Fortunately with Jackson, he

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Speaker 1: wrote all his own stuff. UM. A producer overseas everything

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Speaker 1: make sure that everybody's on time, and you know, budgets

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Speaker 1: are being taken care of and and uh and kind

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Speaker 1: of as a director on a film, similar to that,

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Speaker 1: an engineer is the guy that captures all the sounds,

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Speaker 1: the vocals, the guitars, the drums. He's the guy that's

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Speaker 1: got to get it and make it sound good and

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Speaker 1: make it sound very musical and and pleasant to the

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Speaker 1: is hopefully okay. But on a record, because there are

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Speaker 1: a number of records you were producer, especially in the seventies.

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Speaker 1: What roles did you perform on those albums that were

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Speaker 1: different from being an engineer? When when I was just

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Speaker 1: a producer in the U, I guess it was the

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Speaker 1: mid sixties. On. My job then was to I had

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Speaker 1: eleven artists, um, and they went the Sam Cook, Hugo Montenegro, Um,

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Speaker 1: the women Folk, Glen Yarborough, UM. I just went on

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Speaker 1: and on. H So my job is to put put

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Speaker 1: in budgets for each album. Back then most artists did

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Speaker 1: two albums a year, not like today. So I had

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Speaker 1: to put in budgets for the artists. For the albums

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Speaker 1: I had the artist that didn't write material, I had

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Speaker 1: a fine material for So every Monday was publishers State

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Speaker 1: of all the publishers. Well, let's go back just a

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Speaker 1: couple of steps. You said you had eleven acts. How

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Speaker 1: did you end up with eleven x M? R c

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Speaker 1: A said you think these guys okay? So at the

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Speaker 1: time you were on staff at r CU, I was

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Speaker 1: a stand producer. When what was your tenure at r

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Speaker 1: c A from when to win as a stand producer? Well,

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Speaker 1: I think I became a stand producer in nineteen sixty

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Speaker 1: one and I was there until I left I think

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Speaker 1: sixties six seven. Okay, Now in that era seven, what

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Speaker 1: I know, to touch the board you have to be

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Speaker 1: a union guy, right, absolutely, And that's why I went

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Speaker 1: on became a producer. I couldn't touch the board anymore.

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Speaker 1: And when I did, I get called up on the

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Speaker 1: carpet and they would say, don't do that anymore. And okay,

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Speaker 1: So you were at r c A from like sixty

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Speaker 1: one to the late sixties as a producer as a producer,

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Speaker 1: but you were literally working for them, yes, okay. After

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Speaker 1: that you went independent, right okay? And then before that

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Speaker 1: are you independent? Um? Yes? Okay? So what made you

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Speaker 1: decide to go to work for r c Actually, before

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Speaker 1: that I was not independent. I had worked for Radio Recorders,

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Speaker 1: which was a recording to them. That's how I got

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Speaker 1: involved with henrw Mancini and UH and the Peter Gun

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Speaker 1: record and UH and I wound up then doing all

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Speaker 1: of Hanks things recordings and that's when r C A

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Speaker 1: opened their studio. They hired me. I was the first

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Speaker 1: higher to work in the news studios at r C A.

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Speaker 1: And it was on the corner of the Sunset and

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Speaker 1: Vine and he had a long time the seven NBC building, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And it was when I was working at was they

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Speaker 1: had the National News at night or the late news

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Speaker 1: at night, and you bet your life and crowdcho I

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Speaker 1: would crowd almost every day down in the hallways. And

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Speaker 1: every time you go buy mumble something, have me laughing

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Speaker 1: all the magic word of the day. Um so. But

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Speaker 1: at the time, our CIA was headquartered in New York, right, yes, Okay,

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Speaker 1: so that you were when you came on as a producer,

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Speaker 1: you were in the West Coast, was there? You were

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Speaker 1: the first producer on the West Coast? No, I was

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Speaker 1: the first engineer I hide on the West Coast. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't producing at that point. I was just engineering.

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Speaker 1: So you worked for our CIA as an engineer or

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Speaker 1: a salary right, and then once you became a producer

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Speaker 1: you couldn't touch the board anyway, exactly. Okay. How long

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Speaker 1: did you work for them before you became a producer? Uh?

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Speaker 1: And a half years? And what caused the switch? Um?

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Speaker 1: What cause the switch was people would ask for me

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Speaker 1: on dates all the time as an engineer, and I'd

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Speaker 1: be the engineer and they'd come in and produce a

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Speaker 1: committee behind the phone for threality. And I was doing

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Speaker 1: all the work, talking to legal musicians, and we knew everybody.

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Speaker 1: And if you make a mistake, you know we're on

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Speaker 1: the honest system. Raise your hand. You know this guy's

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Speaker 1: talking to book or or a bookie or something. He's

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Speaker 1: not paying attention to what's going on here. So and

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Speaker 1: they were getting all the credit and everything, and I thought, uh,

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Speaker 1: so I went to my boss, my boss at that time,

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Speaker 1: with Steve Scholz. And Steve is the guy that signed

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Speaker 1: Elvis Presley r C A. Yeah, he was major guy

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Speaker 1: at at r C and I was he in New York, Rilla.

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Speaker 1: He was part of the time New York, part of

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Speaker 1: the time in l A. At this particular time, it

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Speaker 1: was in l A. So I went and I talked

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Speaker 1: to him. I had gotten an offer from Bill Putnam,

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Speaker 1: who owned the studio. Um he was getting ready to

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Speaker 1: kind of slowed down, I guess, and he was going

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Speaker 1: to hire me from r C A over the United

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Speaker 1: and uh and so it at lot more money than

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Speaker 1: I was making. So I told Steve that I wanted

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Speaker 1: to be a producer and and uh, if if I

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Speaker 1: didn't get a promotion, I was going to leave. So

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Speaker 1: we worked out a deal that okay, they who do that,

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Speaker 1: but I have to bring in an engineer and break

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Speaker 1: him in on all the Mancini dates, you know, because

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Speaker 1: he was the top guy then and you know. And

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Speaker 1: so I said, fine. So there was a guy at

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Speaker 1: Ready Records that I knew, Jim Malloy, who later on

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Speaker 1: became a big time producer in country music and one

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Speaker 1: Grammys and did the Paint Panther record and quite a

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Speaker 1: few other things. But but he had a lot of

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Speaker 1: talent and nothing was going on with him there, and

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Speaker 1: and I liked him, so I talked him into coming

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Speaker 1: over and then on all the early charade and those

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Speaker 1: things men say, anythings that he did, I sat next

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Speaker 1: to him and showed him how I set up and

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Speaker 1: what I did. And then then I was able to

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Speaker 1: uh move into doing just producing and uh and I

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Speaker 1: got away front it. Okay, okay, no one could be

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Speaker 1: as good as you. But how long did it take

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Speaker 1: to get Malloy up to uh the right level? I

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Speaker 1: was with maybe three big sessions quickly. Yeah, it was

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Speaker 1: pretty quick. He was. He was really good. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: now you're going to be a producer. Okay, you're not

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Speaker 1: going to touch the board anymore. Tell us how you

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Speaker 1: end up with eleven acts? Well, they give they wind

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Speaker 1: up giving me acts, you know, And that's that's the

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Speaker 1: first thing. Um. The first record I made that I

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Speaker 1: produced was by H. H. B. Barnham Um and we

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Speaker 1: did a thing called take Me Out of the Ballgame,

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Speaker 1: and we did a funky version of that. It was

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Speaker 1: just the start of the season we put that out. Then. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Then I just wound up getting um artist given to me,

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Speaker 1: you know, like, Um, I went to dinner one night

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Speaker 1: with Steve Olds and and and and like the big

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Speaker 1: Posts from New York Show The Imperial and Eddie Fisher.

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Speaker 1: The next thing I know, I'm producing Eddie Fisher. So

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Speaker 1: you know, I was. It's not my kind of thing

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Speaker 1: that that I wouldn't go out and normally buy an

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Speaker 1: Eddie Fisher record. Uh, but this is it. So I

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Speaker 1: just went what about trying to make the best record

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Speaker 1: I could with Eddie Fisher? Okay, So did they have

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Speaker 1: you signing any acts? I could? And and uh I did.

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Speaker 1: I turned one or two small acts for small percentages,

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Speaker 1: but nothing ever happened. Okay, So you're working for our

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Speaker 1: c A. You're totally on salary, totally okay. So the

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Speaker 1: record hits, you're not getting any more money, Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you do. You get you can make five thousand dollar

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Speaker 1: bonus at the end of the year, and I made

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Speaker 1: that every year. So I went from making as an

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Speaker 1: engineer because you out it over time, seven thousand a

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Speaker 1: year after was a lot of money, very very good,

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Speaker 1: to seventeen thousand, five hundred salary and five thousand as

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Speaker 1: a bonus. So five was it was the dream there.

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Speaker 1: The dream was to be a producer because they were

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Speaker 1: the guys that were getting all the glory stuff. You know,

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Speaker 1: you think, oh, yeah, that's producers. They got all of uh,

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Speaker 1: the authority they hired, you know, I don't know whatever

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Speaker 1: it was. It was a and something I always wanted

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Speaker 1: to do, and when I got into it, I wasn't

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Speaker 1: sure that when I was doing it that this was

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Speaker 1: really what I wanted to do and that that story

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Speaker 1: evolves a little bit. Okay, So you're now the producer

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Speaker 1: to what degree? You know, over the last fifty years,

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Speaker 1: things have varied, been the error of the producer, in

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Speaker 1: the error of the engineer producer. So when you were

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Speaker 1: the producer other than making sure that your God was

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Speaker 1: getting the sound right. And you're in the studio, what

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Speaker 1: kind of input would you give? Well, I was the

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Speaker 1: guy that hired the arranger. You know, Nels had Nelson

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Speaker 1: Riddle for the first date. Um, I found a song Faddy.

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Speaker 1: After going to maybe two thousand songs, I found one

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Speaker 1: I thought that might be able to work for him,

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Speaker 1: and we did. It came out and uh it uh.

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Speaker 1: It made the top twenty uh and and uh singles

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Speaker 1: uh and it kind of brought him back a little

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Speaker 1: and helped that way. UM, what do you do you

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Speaker 1: you you you have an artist. So if he writes songs,

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Speaker 1: then you figure out, all right, let's hear the songs.

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Speaker 1: You figure out which the best songs are and which

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Speaker 1: ones you want to do. UM. If he doesn't right,

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Speaker 1: then you have to look for material for him and

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Speaker 1: find songs that that he could do. UM. For the

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Speaker 1: reason I is being in the studio myself a fraction

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Speaker 1: of the average engineer. Never mind yourself. I find most

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Speaker 1: engineers are relatively passive. They'll do what the whatever the

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Speaker 1: act says. And I find that the producer is the

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Speaker 1: person who tends to say, whoa that doesn't work. Who Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that has to change. Is that accurate? Yeah, that's very accurate. Um.

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Speaker 1: You know, if I'm the engineer and there's an artist

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Speaker 1: here and a producer next to me, David Foster or whatever,

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Speaker 1: he's the boss. You know, it's like a director of film.

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Speaker 1: The producer is the boss. So he wants me to

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Speaker 1: do something. I can explain why. I don't think it's

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Speaker 1: a good idea, but if he insists, I do it,

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Speaker 1: you know, but I want them in front. Okay, So

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Speaker 1: you're producing in the early sixties. Uh, is everybody cutting

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Speaker 1: an album or you had doing just singles or what?

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Speaker 1: It's a little of both, mostly albums. Almost every artist

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Speaker 1: had two albums a year, you know. So yeah, it

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Speaker 1: was when you have a lot of artists. Hugo Montenegro

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Speaker 1: I had at that time. Um, god, Wellegro did? That's right?

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Speaker 1: Is that your record? Now? I did right right after that.

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Speaker 1: I worked with him. Okay, to think, so you're working

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Speaker 1: with those acts. How much pressure do you get from

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Speaker 1: New York City to have a hit? Um? Yeah, you get.

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Speaker 1: You get pressure from everybody to have a head, including yourself.

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Speaker 1: You know, this is what you're striving for. You know,

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Speaker 1: especially with like someone like Eddie Fisher who had not

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Speaker 1: had a record in a while, hadn't had done anything

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Speaker 1: or whatever. I went to a band. You you want

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Speaker 1: to get something that will get played on the top

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Speaker 1: forty radio stations and you so you're trying to find

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Speaker 1: something that's commercial, maybe sing along kind of thing. And

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Speaker 1: and then of course to hire somebody like Nelson Riddle

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Speaker 1: to do the arrangement. And and he was quite a

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Speaker 1: big help on it. Uh yeah, it's it's not not easy.

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Speaker 1: So tell me about a Monday being publishing day. I

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Speaker 1: be on Monday would be publishing day. I'd I'd come in. Uh,

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Speaker 1: I'd see four or five publishers that day. They'd come over.

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Speaker 1: I had a turntable there, and uh they would bring

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Speaker 1: these songs and put them on and and listen and

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Speaker 1: you know, maybe make a note on something that I

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Speaker 1: put a hold on the song for an artist that

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Speaker 1: I was thinking about. Uh so that would be it.

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Speaker 1: And they'd be there a half hour forty medicine, next

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Speaker 1: guy show up and I do that. And that's but

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Speaker 1: you know, someone who's listening to material, that's usually a

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Speaker 1: very tedious process. It is it is, and they hit

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Speaker 1: the ship ratio is very low. It's that. Yes, there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of crap, you know, And

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Speaker 1: that's that's the thing, uh, trying to get through things. Now,

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Speaker 1: today demos tend to be highly produced. What were the

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Speaker 1: demos like back then? Demos were reveling rough. Sometimes the

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Speaker 1: demo just be voice and piano or guitar and and voice,

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Speaker 1: or sometimes uh just a small rhythm section done in

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Speaker 1: a little fucking studio. That's that's pretty much how the

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Speaker 1: demos aura. So they only started. Demos only started getting

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Speaker 1: better when some of the demos was starting to become hits. Right,

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Speaker 1: do you remember any demos it became hits a lot

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Speaker 1: of things. You know. The other thing is sometimes today

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Speaker 1: with very produced demos, then they redo and it's just

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Speaker 1: not as good as the demo. Absolutely, Oh that and

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Speaker 1: a lot of OCAs. Okay, so let's let's go back. Okay.

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Speaker 1: How often would you listen on Monday and go, man,

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Speaker 1: that's a hit? Yeah? Well, I bet I listened to

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Speaker 1: uh songs for Eddie Fisher before I found the one

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Speaker 1: song that I thought had a chance to be a hit.

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Speaker 1: So I called Eddie up right away, drove up to

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Speaker 1: his house played he yeah, okay, and uh I called

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Speaker 1: Nelson Riddle find out when he was available book the studio.

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Speaker 1: Uh let Nelson have his whatever he wanted on the date,

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Speaker 1: and that was it. We went in. We cut two

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Speaker 1: songs and uh, well, how did you know? What was

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Speaker 1: this about? The song that you knew would be the

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Speaker 1: right way? It was at a time when these sing

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Speaker 1: along songs we were becoming popular, you know, um, and

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Speaker 1: people that you know, you could sing along with it

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Speaker 1: and that'd be the singer and then the choir would

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Speaker 1: come in or the background voices. Um, and it had

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Speaker 1: that feel to it. You know. It's just kind of

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Speaker 1: it was called games that people play. And Okay, when

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Speaker 1: you're in the studio and you're working, do you know

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Speaker 1: when something's a hit? Um? Yeah, yeah, you know with yeah,

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Speaker 1: you say, okay, this is a hit and then it is. Uh,

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Speaker 1: then you write a per center a time on that.

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Speaker 1: But there are other times when I mean I made

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Speaker 1: a record with Dr John Tommy Lapoma produced it. Uh,

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Speaker 1: keep the music simple. It was a single. We did

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Speaker 1: the album and all that, but this was keep the

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Speaker 1: music simple. And if we all I thought it was

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Speaker 1: a smash when out there and died. That's when it

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Speaker 1: was on Atlantic. No, no, no, it was one of others. Okay,

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Speaker 1: because I find there's a very thin layer of stuff

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Speaker 1: that's like an eleven we go this you and you know, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and then below that you can be surprised. But there's

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Speaker 1: a certain level. Okay. So you're working with Eddie Fisher,

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Speaker 1: who else you're working with in the early sixties, you

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Speaker 1: hear him and Monterey He'll go, I did an now

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Speaker 1: want him called Russian Grandual where we did all the

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Speaker 1: great Russian uh composers on an album. Uh, the Limelighters.

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Speaker 1: I was working with the Limelighters. That was kind of fun. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: He was a manager Ken who later managed Benson. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So okay, you're cutting an album at that point in time.

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Speaker 1: How long does it take to cut an album? Back then?

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Speaker 1: Very short period of time because we didn't have all

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Speaker 1: the things that we have today to tuning and all

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Speaker 1: those other things. So you captured a performance. We would

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Speaker 1: always get in the three hour session. We get to

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Speaker 1: three songs done and uh, three ours. What was the

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Speaker 1: equipment like then? The equipment was great. We were going

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Speaker 1: to tape obviously, and it was becoming you know, multi

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Speaker 1: layer tape right then we were up to track something

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Speaker 1: U so we had plenty of that. Uh. He would

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Speaker 1: do three songs or four in a three hour date

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Speaker 1: and everything was done at the same time, so there

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Speaker 1: was no overdubs back then. It was all done live

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Speaker 1: and what you got, you know, it was it was Elvis,

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Speaker 1: That's what you got. Uh. Did you work with Elvis?

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Speaker 1: I did on his first record out of the Service

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Speaker 1: g I Blues. That was amazing. He was really cool. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he was great. It's the first time in the studio

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Speaker 1: that I ever worked like on one artist twelve hours

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Speaker 1: straight where we had foodsin in and we didn't go out.

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Speaker 1: We didn't do that and it was nice. There was

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Speaker 1: a lot of fun, a lot of joking around. My

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Speaker 1: assistant who collected the toquis uh jewelry. Elvis had a

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Speaker 1: a bracelet turcoise and my assistance had got us a

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Speaker 1: beautiful he said, he said, my sister, yeah, I collect that,

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Speaker 1: and he said, well, that's really a nice one. Elvis

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Speaker 1: took it off and gave it so I said, Elvis, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I said about the car in the garage because he

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Speaker 1: had a rose roice. He laughed. We all laughed. You know.

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Speaker 1: But he gave him the brace and well that was

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Speaker 1: he the type of guy some people like that it

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Speaker 1: don't write the row material of the singers. They don't

341
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Speaker 1: really show up until everything's arranged. Was he the guy

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Speaker 1: who was in the studio. He was there all that

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Speaker 1: all day. He loved hanging out with the guys. He

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Speaker 1: loved hanging out with the singers, you know, the musicians.

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Speaker 1: He was a fun guy to be around. And back

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Speaker 1: then he was just out of his servance. He was

347
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Speaker 1: in great shape and you know, great sense of human

348
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Speaker 1: life was great for him. And how how much input

349
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Speaker 1: did he have into the recordings? Quite a bit? Really, yea,

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Speaker 1: quite a bit in a sense, well in a sense

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Speaker 1: that the tempos made sure that the tempos who are

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Speaker 1: right uh for him? M yeah, he would he'd have input,

353
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Speaker 1: not him, but yeah, and he would. That was the

354
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Speaker 1: other thing. They would all work together on things, and

355
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Speaker 1: you know, hey, what if we did this or what

356
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Speaker 1: do we you know? And as I said, we were

357
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Speaker 1: doing usually four songs and three hours. Here I am

358
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Speaker 1: in the studio twelve hours and we may get one

359
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Speaker 1: or two things done, you know. But it was Elvis

360
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Speaker 1: and he's using his band yeah, yeah, yeah, these guys. Yeah, okay,

361
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Speaker 1: so in the sixties prior to the Beatles hitting any

362
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Speaker 1: other you work with Eddie Fisher, you had to hit

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Speaker 1: with him. Any other memorable experiences, Oh god, as a

364
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Speaker 1: producers and engineers producer, Yeah, I did. I did a

365
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Speaker 1: great album with Paul Horn and Lala Scheffrin called The

366
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Speaker 1: Chess Suite on the Mass Text, which one two Grammys. Uh.

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Speaker 1: We did the Catholic Mass in chazz form and and

368
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Speaker 1: that was we We got put down on that at first.

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Speaker 1: And there's a priest in New York, father O'Connor, who

370
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Speaker 1: was called the Chairs Priest, and we got him to

371
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Speaker 1: write the line of notes. We got that done. Yeah,

372
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Speaker 1: he did. He heard it in the road to Line

373
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Speaker 1: of Notes and yeah, as I think Lolo, you know,

374
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Speaker 1: Lolo won a Grammy and so did Paul and so

375
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Speaker 1: was Jefferson Airplane. Your first rock act. Yeah, that was

376
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Speaker 1: my first real rock act. I produced a group called

377
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Speaker 1: the Astronauts and had some modern hits with what was

378
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Speaker 1: the hit of the Astronauts baja right? I did them,

379
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Speaker 1: and then I did a group called the Liverpool Five,

380
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Speaker 1: British group from Liverpool. R c A didn't have a

381
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Speaker 1: British act at that time, so we signed the five

382
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Speaker 1: guys and they were really good, but they just nothing

383
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Speaker 1: ever happened. Okay, So Jefferson Airplane, you make the first

384
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:08,480
Speaker 1: Jefferson Airplane with Sidney Anderson as opposed to Yeah, I

385
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Speaker 1: didn't do that one, you did? No, No, who did

386
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 1: that one? That? I think Dave Hassan when I they

387
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:17,960
Speaker 1: sent me up to see the group when I was

388
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Speaker 1: staff producer at our ce A n So all this

389
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:26,080
Speaker 1: was going on in San Francisco, and I get a

390
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Speaker 1: call to go up to San Francisco to see screwup

391
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Speaker 1: that plane at the club. They've already made the first album.

392
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Speaker 1: No nothing, I haven't been signed. So I go up

393
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,920
Speaker 1: and I see them at this club and line around

394
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Speaker 1: the block and listen and stuff sounded great. So so really,

395
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Speaker 1: before you thought it was not rough, it was good.

396
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:48,160
Speaker 1: I thought it was good, and I thought that, yeah,

397
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:53,440
Speaker 1: this says, hey, we need a group from San Francisco,

398
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Speaker 1: because you know, Moby Grape was going to Columbia. And

399
00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:00,159
Speaker 1: just just to be clear, you started off had a

400
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 1: lot of success in the jazz world. What was your

401
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:06,160
Speaker 1: viewpoint of rock music? Did you like getting you said

402
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:09,400
Speaker 1: this is business. No, I did like it. I liked

403
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 1: it and and certain certain aspects of it I loved,

404
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:17,879
Speaker 1: you know. And somebody oh great R and B things,

405
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:23,119
Speaker 1: uh that you know race records, which is what I

406
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:27,920
Speaker 1: grew up. Uh yeah, so I was into that kind

407
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:31,480
Speaker 1: of thing. So you were a Beatles fan. The first

408
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:34,679
Speaker 1: time I heard the Beatles, I was I thought, I

409
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 1: want to hold your hands right, Okay, you know when

410
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:43,200
Speaker 1: I heard saw Jim Pepper killed me on Great Ones

411
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 1: and all my albums. You know, Chaff Emeric was the engineer,

412
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,040
Speaker 1: right and didn't amazing? Is he a friend of yours?

413
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:51,399
Speaker 1: Yes he was? And and uh you know I missing

414
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:56,399
Speaker 1: the wonderful nice man. Yeah. And uh so you go

415
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 1: up to San Francisco and you hear the band and

416
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 1: you your thumbs right. Then what happens? So r c

417
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:04,720
Speaker 1: A signs them, So they work out a deal and

418
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 1: they come in and someone produces the first so I

419
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 1: know at that particular time, they had to record in

420
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 1: the Union studio, right right, yeah, right, so they someone

421
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:22,640
Speaker 1: else starting producer record. Yeah, I think that manager or somebody,

422
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 1: and at that time producer record. It was called Jeff

423
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 1: Sanplane Takes Off and it was with Sydney in it,

424
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 1: and then something I don't know what happened, but she

425
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 1: left the band. I have no idea why. And and

426
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:39,639
Speaker 1: Grace came in and Spencer I think that talking too,

427
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:43,199
Speaker 1: but I'm not sure. Um and that was it and

428
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:47,719
Speaker 1: it didn't do much. Then sourrealistic pillow, Okay, well you're

429
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:51,800
Speaker 1: you did that? No, I didn't do that. Did that?

430
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 1: That was Rich Gerrard was the producer. Um and uh.

431
00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 1: And they hated that record because is the echo. They

432
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,960
Speaker 1: hated the way it was recorded with the echo and everything,

433
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:08,200
Speaker 1: and it's just you know, they said they didn't want

434
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:15,400
Speaker 1: anything to do with right with at that foot because

435
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:20,719
Speaker 1: of that. So they at the time, do they have

436
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:24,200
Speaker 1: to use someone who works for our c Not necessarily,

437
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:28,640
Speaker 1: they would have to use an our Cia engineer. So anyway,

438
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 1: so I I'm assigned to it, and now I am.

439
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:38,360
Speaker 1: I'm doing Eddie Fisher overdubs in the afternoon from two

440
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:42,879
Speaker 1: to five. At five o'clock, I quit with Eddie. I

441
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 1: go up to my office, I meditate for an hour.

442
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,720
Speaker 1: I wind up by day to go back down. Eight o'clock.

443
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:55,679
Speaker 1: Jefferson airplane come in and they just trail in, you know,

444
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,919
Speaker 1: and it's it's and it goes on. We worked from

445
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 1: eight till maybe an and then all of a sudden

446
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:07,159
Speaker 1: we visited Stought showing up and we got Channis Joplin's

447
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:16,639
Speaker 1: Come hangs out. Ah, so everybody, Jean Luc Goddard, you know.

448
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 1: I mean it was some heavy duty people and his wife,

449
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:25,119
Speaker 1: you know, his wife was she would sit knitting and

450
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 1: I swear, you know, and we're doing acid rock music.

451
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 1: Um so I got to be eleven o'clock, you know,

452
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,199
Speaker 1: David Crosby would show up, and then it was all

453
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 1: the drugs and until three in the morning. So this

454
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 1: went on for a while, and it was very very slow,

455
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 1: imagine and burning up the money. But because it's r

456
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 1: c A Studios, it's not like we're using outside, you know,

457
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:58,200
Speaker 1: so so that cuts it back a lot. And and yeah,

458
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 1: we were so anyway, so we're into this a few

459
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 1: months and and I'm I'm starting to uh kill myself

460
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 1: in a sense that I get home, get a couple

461
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:16,480
Speaker 1: of hours sleep, get up, come to the office. I

462
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 1: had other acts that I've rec with and trying to

463
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 1: do budgets. So I called my boss, Ernie all Shila

464
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 1: on the phone in New York and uh. And I said, Ernie,

465
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 1: I can't do this anymore. I said, you know, I'm

466
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 1: killing myself. I said, you know, I'm working with Eddie

467
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 1: Fisher in the afternoon and Jefferson never playing at night.

468
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 1: Don't get out of here three four in the morning.

469
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 1: By time I get home, I'm back and looking for songs,

470
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:48,960
Speaker 1: you know. And I said, I just can't do anymore.

471
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 1: He said, gee, how truck drivers do it? Wow? And

472
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 1: I said, really, Earlie. So yeah, I said, we'll get

473
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:01,480
Speaker 1: yourself a couple of trucks. Because because I quit and

474
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 1: I turned out, I went down, put in my notice,

475
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 1: two weeks notice, and quit. So I went home after

476
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 1: two weeks and I didn't know what I was gonna do.

477
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 1: Where where was it? But you're in the middle of uh,

478
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 1: you know, after we get back and now they're on

479
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 1: their own in the studio. All right, Okay. So I

480
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 1: get a call from the manager of the Jeff Scenaria plane. Al,

481
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 1: we had a lot of trouble. They're trying to stick us.

482
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 1: We don't want these people. They said, we could hire

483
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 1: an outside producer and give him points. Would you be interested?

484
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 1: I said, absolutely, just a little bit. You quit, and

485
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 1: obviously it takes like a little while to decompress. What

486
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 1: was the plan? There wasn't a plan when I quit. None,

487
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 1: that was it. What did I do? Oh my god,

488
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 1: I'm home. Now I'm home. I have a family and

489
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 1: I'm home. I'm not working on there's no check. What

490
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 1: the what? What are you crazy? But it worked out,

491
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 1: you know, And now I was then I was trying

492
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 1: to figure out Okay, now this is I gotta have

493
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 1: a plan on how I get some work. And I

494
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 1: was getting that going when I got the call from

495
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 1: Bill Thompson was the manager of the airplane at the time,

496
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 1: so I would remember I was making twenty five right

497
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 1: with the bonus, So I do uh. After bathing and baxes,

498
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 1: we finally get it on there. Okay, So who makes

499
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:38,480
Speaker 1: the deal? You make the dealer, my attorney, great guy.

500
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:41,479
Speaker 1: So how many points do they give you? Well, they

501
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 1: started out low, but then it went up. We agate

502
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 1: and when I was getting around five, not bad at all. Well,

503
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 1: so my first loyalty check, it's almost fifty dollars as

504
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 1: compared for working a whole game for twenty three five. Okay,

505
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 1: how long as it take it to finish? After bathing

506
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 1: it Baxter. That album took five and a half months,

507
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 1: and was there any pressure to speed it up? Um?

508
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 1: No not At that point. They wanted that they would

509
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 1: call all the time and ask how it's going, and

510
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 1: what's going on? What does it look like? And and

511
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,719
Speaker 1: we I said, she did a single while we were

512
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 1: doing that called two Heads, I think, and uh so

513
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 1: they released a single, so there was something out there,

514
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 1: but that was it Saturday Afternoon, won't you try? Was

515
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 1: that always one song together? Okay? So that album comes out, okay,

516
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 1: and that's the album you start to get royalties on it.

517
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 1: Is the band happy with the record? Absolutely? Okay? And

518
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 1: then and then is it uh crown of Creation? Then

519
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 1: we do chronic creation um and then bless its point

520
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 1: of So what was it like making a live album

521
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 1: back then? It was cool. We did half of it

522
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 1: in um San Francisco and half of it in New York.

523
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 1: Um live it wasn live? Yeah, yeah, because sometimes people

524
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 1: you know, and in New York before they went on,

525
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 1: they would King Kong was on the screen. So at

526
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 1: the end when the guy said it wasn't wasn't the

527
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 1: airplane that killed the beast? It was beauty? You know

528
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 1: kind of thing. So I love that and we really

529
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:50,760
Speaker 1: get permission to put that on the record. Really yeah,

530
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 1: I think that opens the record. So, um, how many

531
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 1: shows did you have to record to get it? Oh?

532
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 1: I know when we were in New York it was Thanksgiving,

533
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 1: so we had Thanksgiving together, dinner together, all of us

534
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 1: while they were playing at the clubs. We would do um,

535
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:12,880
Speaker 1: we would called, uh, maybe three or four shows in

536
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:16,719
Speaker 1: each place and and usually have enough. And did you

537
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 1: how many mikes would it take? Well, yeah, quite quite

538
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 1: a few, just a guestimate maybe. And at the time,

539
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 1: did the record plane have a truck or what did

540
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:31,399
Speaker 1: you use to record? Yeah, yeah, there was a truck.

541
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 1: And while he had had a truck in San Francisco,

542
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 1: and uh, we had a truck in New York. I

543
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 1: can't remember who r c A had one? I think

544
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 1: so something like that a live album. How long did

545
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 1: it take you to mix it? The most time takes picking.

546
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:51,799
Speaker 1: You know, you got like you do five shows, right,

547
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 1: so now you've got five versions of that song, so

548
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,799
Speaker 1: you gotta listen to each version, figure about the best

549
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 1: one and and take that. So it's time consumings. Did

550
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:03,439
Speaker 1: you ever cut like half of one song with half

551
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,239
Speaker 1: of the other. No, I know, not on live. So

552
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 1: I've done it in the studio. Uh yeah many times,

553
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:14,839
Speaker 1: but not on anything alive. Okay, so that album comes out,

554
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 1: tell me about Volunteers, which was a mega production. Yeah,

555
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 1: that's my favorite. It is my favorite too. Yeah, and

556
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:28,759
Speaker 1: you know a quick story. I sent the tapes back

557
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 1: to New York just to be clear because this is predigital. Yeah,

558
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:35,399
Speaker 1: how would you literally get the tapes to New York?

559
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:39,759
Speaker 1: They sent him with a guy. Yeah that they they

560
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 1: mail him. Okay, you know, like ups or whatever something.

561
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, that they had a special mailing department.

562
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:54,920
Speaker 1: So we sent the tapes back and all of a sudden,

563
00:35:55,880 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 1: my phone rings. Ow, you can't do this. What do

564
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 1: you mean? Up against the wall? Mother is not gonna work?

565
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 1: I said, well, what do you want? They got to

566
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 1: take it out, So I said, well what if they don't.

567
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 1: He said, we're not going to release it like that.

568
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 1: I said, okay, let me talk to him. So I

569
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 1: go back and I talked to uh, get the group together,

570
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 1: but the and they're not gonna You've got to change this.

571
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:33,520
Speaker 1: They're not going to release it like this. They're not

572
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 1: what you either change it or the records are coming out.

573
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 1: They said, fine, fuck them, don't put it out So

574
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:45,879
Speaker 1: I called back until New York. They said, fine, don't

575
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:48,440
Speaker 1: put it out there, and they're not changing it. This

576
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 1: is when I learned a big lesson about record companies.

577
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:54,879
Speaker 1: You know, it's all about the money. Of course, all

578
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:58,279
Speaker 1: of a sudden came out untouched, just the way we

579
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:02,400
Speaker 1: did it, you know, because they wanted the building and

580
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:04,840
Speaker 1: that was a big album. Right. Also, I remember Escible

581
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:08,239
Speaker 1: Blue Day Had doesn't mean shipped to a tree. I

582
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:12,440
Speaker 1: know some of the greatest stuff compared to a stream.

583
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:18,360
Speaker 1: The American Dream doesn't mean shipped to a tree. We

584
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,200
Speaker 1: need more of that today, Yes, absolutely, okay, so let's

585
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 1: go back. You do you're now independent by accident, almost

586
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:29,840
Speaker 1: you do after bathing it back. So that takes five months.

587
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:32,840
Speaker 1: Then what well, then I'm into the more with the

588
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 1: Jefferson Aeroplane. And then they started a label called Grunt,

589
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 1: and uh, they like me, so I started doing some

590
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 1: of the Grunt acts and then I wound up doing

591
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:50,839
Speaker 1: the the original haw Tuna record, the acoustic right which

592
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:55,520
Speaker 1: and that that's another story. Well, the story, this story

593
00:37:55,719 --> 00:38:01,840
Speaker 1: was we we were up in um San Francisco, and

594
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 1: uh at at a club and um and Ousley is

595
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 1: doing in front of the house The King of Acid.

596
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:14,239
Speaker 1: So I'm I'm drinking apple juice talking Al and I

597
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:17,719
Speaker 1: have Wally had his truck and my engineer was a

598
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:22,400
Speaker 1: guy by named Alan Since and uh, so I finished

599
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:24,439
Speaker 1: everything and now they're going to go on first show

600
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 1: and writing. So I get into truck and I got

601
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:29,320
Speaker 1: a pad and a pencil, and I'm sitting back and

602
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:32,359
Speaker 1: Alan's right there, and we had gotten our sounds at

603
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:36,240
Speaker 1: the beginning. Everything was good, and uh, all of a sudden,

604
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:41,839
Speaker 1: I my feet when two hundred yards and the whole

605
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 1: truck expanded and then back, and it was like, what

606
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 1: the hell was that? And then it happened again, and

607
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 1: then I knew what happened, and I turned to Allen.

608
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 1: I said, Alan, you're on your own. I had a

609
00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:58,960
Speaker 1: part I was gonna write now that there's not one

610
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:02,400
Speaker 1: note down on that show. How many shows did record then?

611
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 1: If we recorded I think four four shows. Okay, you

612
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:09,760
Speaker 1: were living in l A. Okay, were you using any drugs?

613
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 1: Was high? Oh? Yeah, okay, yeah plenty. I'm sober now

614
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:17,320
Speaker 1: over thirty two years, right, But yeah, I was obviously

615
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 1: what drugs were you using everything? Okay, cocaine? We of course,

616
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:27,680
Speaker 1: how everybody smoked marijuana, a lot of cocaine. Uh, acid

617
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 1: once in a while. Okay, so had you take an

618
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:33,400
Speaker 1: acid prior to that? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, so anyway, you

619
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:35,800
Speaker 1: know what was going on? What was okay? Did you

620
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:37,719
Speaker 1: because in the lates at least, was we hit the

621
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:41,440
Speaker 1: seventies people using cocaine so they could stay up and work, right?

622
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 1: Did you use it for that? Yeah? We yeah? Yeah,

623
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:47,919
Speaker 1: where would you get it from anybody? I mean you'd

624
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 1: walk into a session and everybody had their own bottle,

625
00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:54,239
Speaker 1: like everybody was doing it well. And those were the

626
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:56,760
Speaker 1: days when it was told we were told it wasn't

627
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:03,040
Speaker 1: you know. Uh so yeah, hey, just it's great if

628
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 1: we can keep going and yeah okay. So for this

629
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 1: period from uh like sixty eight to seventy two, are

630
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:18,239
Speaker 1: you working outside of grunt outside of Jefferson Airplane? Um? Yeah? Yeah?

631
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 1: So how you getting that work? Um? I get called,

632
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 1: you know, I have uh my uh my attorney house

633
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 1: messenger help. He would send people to me and so forth.

634
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:39,600
Speaker 1: That's how I wind up doing altro um because of him.

635
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:42,880
Speaker 1: Uh So I was getting worked small work. Uh, I

636
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:51,280
Speaker 1: did uh goop called Ivory, you know Martin a band

637
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 1: like that. How long would it take you to do it? Uh?

638
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:58,960
Speaker 1: Two weeks? Couple of weeks? Okay, So how do you

639
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 1: end up doing a loan together? Do you already know

640
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:09,800
Speaker 1: Tommy Lapuma? Yeah, Tommy, Tommy, Um, I'm at Tommy. In

641
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty he was a song plug up for Metro

642
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:20,880
Speaker 1: Music and he would commend one of the guys that

643
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 1: commend and bring me songs, and we hit it off

644
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:27,279
Speaker 1: right away. Tommy and I we just became friends. And

645
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 1: he would bring me songs Fanny Fisher for this one

646
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 1: and whatever. And I know he was a saxophone player,

647
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:37,400
Speaker 1: and I know he wanted to produce and and do that.

648
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 1: So um, So we became fast friends. And we would

649
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:44,440
Speaker 1: hang out and go out together at dinner and get

650
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:47,439
Speaker 1: a high together, and I'd go to his sections, he'd

651
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:52,440
Speaker 1: come to mind um, and we just became close friends.

652
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:58,400
Speaker 1: So he was doing an album with Dave Mason and

653
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:02,759
Speaker 1: Bruce Bodnick was the engineer, the Doors engineer, and he

654
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 1: had a start time with the Doors on a new

655
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:10,000
Speaker 1: album that he had to leave and start on that day.

656
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 1: So Tommy said, I need somebody to mix this album.

657
00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:19,160
Speaker 1: He said, you used to engineer l what do you

658
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:21,759
Speaker 1: mix it? I said, I don't think I could do

659
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 1: it anymore. Tommy years, oh, yeah, it's like riding a bike.

660
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:28,400
Speaker 1: So yeah, So we're back and forth. So finally we

661
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 1: make a little pact. Okay, I'll go in with you.

662
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 1: We'll give it a shot. If I feel I'm not

663
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:36,239
Speaker 1: doing it, you let me back off. And if you

664
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:38,080
Speaker 1: feel I'm not doing it, you gotta let me know

665
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:42,279
Speaker 1: know how feeling. So we make the deal. I go

666
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:46,560
Speaker 1: in and start mixing this record, that beautiful sounding record

667
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:51,719
Speaker 1: that Bruce did, and I'm in heaven. You know, it's

668
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:54,360
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, It's back to where I started.

669
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:57,040
Speaker 1: The reason I'm in this business in the first place

670
00:42:57,440 --> 00:42:59,919
Speaker 1: is to be able to move things around. And bale

671
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:04,160
Speaker 1: Let's thing and that was it. And and when I

672
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:07,040
Speaker 1: finished that record, I think we took us a week

673
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:12,719
Speaker 1: to mix it. Uh. It just it was great. That's

674
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:14,920
Speaker 1: great sounding record. I was one of the great records

675
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 1: of all time. One of the things you can play

676
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:19,800
Speaker 1: from beginning to yeah, exactly, great songs, you know. And

677
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:22,640
Speaker 1: they're doing a documentary on coming up soon. So we

678
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:24,919
Speaker 1: did a podcast with you know he can still really

679
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:27,160
Speaker 1: play the guitar. Oh yeah, no, no, yeah, but only

680
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:29,239
Speaker 1: you know, and I know it took more than your

681
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:31,840
Speaker 1: gay look at you, look at me unbelievable stuff. That

682
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:35,279
Speaker 1: was it. That was the best of the best. So

683
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 1: then that comes out, and then I get a call

684
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:46,040
Speaker 1: from Neil Larcher who wants to do a record. So, okay,

685
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 1: it's halfway done with the record. He wants to the

686
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:55,239
Speaker 1: half with me at Sunset Sound. So we set up

687
00:43:55,320 --> 00:44:01,480
Speaker 1: the whole studio, which actors is again uh yeah. We

688
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:04,520
Speaker 1: set up the studio like a living room and and

689
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:07,840
Speaker 1: then we were doing on the Beach and so we

690
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 1: did three songs there. And there's another story with that.

691
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:16,239
Speaker 1: People would come in from the record company and we

692
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:20,520
Speaker 1: have one multi track tape machine that we're recording on,

693
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:23,880
Speaker 1: and people would come in and want to hear what

694
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 1: we were doing. So we'd be in one song and

695
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:29,279
Speaker 1: so we don't have to take the tape off, put

696
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 1: another tape on and playing what we did and everything else.

697
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:38,319
Speaker 1: So we finally decided to make to a little two

698
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:43,400
Speaker 1: track a couple of rough so we didn't have to

699
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:46,600
Speaker 1: keep doing it. Well, that's all well and good. We

700
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 1: finished the record. Everything's great. Yeah, when are we going

701
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 1: to mix? Neil? Oh no, no, I like the rough mixes.

702
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 1: I said, oh no, Neil, He said, yeah, no, I

703
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 1: think that's exactly what I want. I said, look, let

704
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 1: me go in and do it, let me do it.

705
00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:08,680
Speaker 1: I'll pay for it myself at all. But I know, no, no,

706
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:13,600
Speaker 1: this is it. I that was it. So there was

707
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:17,640
Speaker 1: no more arguing or or anything else. And and kneel

708
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:20,600
Speaker 1: to this day. Every time he sees me, or he'll

709
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 1: see somebody else, say something about it. Oh yeah, ask

710
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:28,000
Speaker 1: God if he still wants to remix. He still does that. Well.

711
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:30,320
Speaker 1: It's funny because his first album came out and he

712
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:32,879
Speaker 1: was pissed about the mix and he redid it. Yeah.

713
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:37,439
Speaker 1: So uh and you do you ever work with Neil again? Yeah? Yeah,

714
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 1: I work with Neil quite a bit. I just did

715
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 1: a hundred piece of orchastra with him at m CHAM

716
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:47,759
Speaker 1: just recently. Yeah. Yeah, that his two albums ago. You

717
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:54,280
Speaker 1: know it. We had choir and orchestra and everything done live.

718
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 1: He sang live right out in the middle of the orchestra.

719
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:00,239
Speaker 1: This is amazing. Okay, So how did you end up

720
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:06,799
Speaker 1: working on Asia Steely Dan. Oh I got a call.

721
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:13,239
Speaker 1: Uh Gary Kats, did you know? H oh yeah yeah.

722
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:16,759
Speaker 1: And so I get a call and hey, we have

723
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:22,319
Speaker 1: a we have a song or two. Uh we want

724
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:26,320
Speaker 1: you to mix. So I said so that. No, no,

725
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:30,600
Speaker 1: I didn't track anything on that album, just mixed two songs.

726
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:34,880
Speaker 1: So yeah. I was working at sound Labs almend Steiner

727
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:39,360
Speaker 1: on the studio and um, so I'm sitting there waiting.

728
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:42,920
Speaker 1: They bring the tapes in a bunch of limiteds that

729
00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:47,080
Speaker 1: they were thinking about using, and so it's the song

730
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:51,200
Speaker 1: is PEG. So they take off and I'm messing around

731
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:56,399
Speaker 1: with with PEG and so I get a fairly good

732
00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:58,720
Speaker 1: balance on it, you know, And I turned the monitor

733
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:04,399
Speaker 1: down and I'm going at the meats, like checking out

734
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 1: everything great. Uh, little did I know they walked in

735
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:12,759
Speaker 1: while I was doing that. And then I turned the

736
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:16,279
Speaker 1: monitor up and I had this pretty good mix that

737
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:19,920
Speaker 1: I had done before they came in, and they freaked

738
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:25,160
Speaker 1: out and Gary has it, al can mix a record?

739
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:28,080
Speaker 1: What I have been hearing it? It was that kind

740
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:31,120
Speaker 1: of thing, and I mean it would blown away, But

741
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:35,120
Speaker 1: the long run, it was PEG was the song, and

742
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:39,319
Speaker 1: we wound up mixing it and there were in those days.

743
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:43,279
Speaker 1: There was no automation on a car, so everybody had

744
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:48,160
Speaker 1: a part. So you know, one guy right, one guy added,

745
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:51,600
Speaker 1: echoed to a guitar part, another guy did this, and

746
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 1: so it was all They were like four of us

747
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:57,640
Speaker 1: over the board, and it was all about a performance.

748
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:02,560
Speaker 1: And we spent almost twelve hours on PEG to get

749
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:05,480
Speaker 1: that the way it was because every time if I

750
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 1: get it right, someone else school up right. Everybody had

751
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:12,320
Speaker 1: to be perfect. And what was the other song you

752
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:17,400
Speaker 1: did on Asia? On Asia? Deacon Blues? That's my favorite

753
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:22,600
Speaker 1: song on Asia they call out Alabama the Crimson type.

754
00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:28,719
Speaker 1: Oh god, that's a great song. Okay, So um, let's

755
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:32,320
Speaker 1: go back to the beginning. You're from New York, Okay.

756
00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:37,040
Speaker 1: Your parents born where? Okay? How many generations have they

757
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:42,080
Speaker 1: already been here? Your family? Um? God, on my mother's side,

758
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:49,000
Speaker 1: back during the mayflower time. Really yeah yeah, Connecticut Yankee. Um.

759
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:54,360
Speaker 1: On my father's side, his mother came over from Germany

760
00:48:54,440 --> 00:49:00,040
Speaker 1: when she was three. His father was here before and

761
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:04,160
Speaker 1: he was born here I think his father and he

762
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:09,000
Speaker 1: was a blacksmith. Yeah yeah, he did horn shoes and

763
00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:12,560
Speaker 1: he were and then he worked for the Mack Trucking company.

764
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 1: What do you do for them? Right? Wow? Okay, So

765
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:20,400
Speaker 1: you grow up where I grew up in Brooklyn, So

766
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 1: what was it like? Back then? It was like mean

767
00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:26,160
Speaker 1: streets if you ever seen that movie, Yeah, it's pretty Yeah,

768
00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:29,360
Speaker 1: that's a tough area, tough neighborhood, a lot of gangs,

769
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:31,399
Speaker 1: out of fights, a lot of that kind. And how

770
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:34,480
Speaker 1: did you fit in there? It's probably just like having

771
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:37,800
Speaker 1: a little Turkey kid, you know, getting in trouble and

772
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:44,080
Speaker 1: all um. I was. I was really blessed in the

773
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:50,040
Speaker 1: sense that my father's brother, Harry Smith is reallyam with Schmidt,

774
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:52,920
Speaker 1: but he changed it because of the German sentiment. And

775
00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:58,279
Speaker 1: back then he um. He was a recording engineer for

776
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 1: um brun s Wicks. Yeah, he did the sing sing sing,

777
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:07,200
Speaker 1: you know, Benny Goodman all use. So he had a

778
00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:11,719
Speaker 1: recording studio and when I was little, my my recording studio. Yeah,

779
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:14,800
Speaker 1: Harry Smith Recording where in New York City on to

780
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:19,480
Speaker 1: West and it was the first independent recording study in

781
00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:22,640
Speaker 1: New York. Sanata did his first vocal ever in the

782
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:27,160
Speaker 1: studio there. Yeah, It's just amazing time. So we would

783
00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:30,040
Speaker 1: go over and visit him when I was a little

784
00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:35,279
Speaker 1: like he he didn't have any children, and so, but

785
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:38,080
Speaker 1: he was besides my uncle, he was also my godfather.

786
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:42,080
Speaker 1: So he treated me like I was his son. And

787
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:46,759
Speaker 1: and I was always amazed by everything, and you know,

788
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:51,000
Speaker 1: and so he showed me and watching big bands record

789
00:50:51,239 --> 00:50:54,439
Speaker 1: and uh so when I got to be about eight,

790
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:57,680
Speaker 1: I was able to get on the subway by myself,

791
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 1: walk a few blocks, get on the sub boy, get over,

792
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:05,600
Speaker 1: get off at walk back one block to his studio.

793
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:09,040
Speaker 1: And I'd spend the weekend with my uncle. And you

794
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:11,359
Speaker 1: literally sleep at his house or you'd stay at his house.

795
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:14,799
Speaker 1: He had a beautiful apartment on Riverside Drive. Back then,

796
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:18,960
Speaker 1: my father was making like seventeen bucks of And at

797
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:21,560
Speaker 1: the end of the day on Sunday, when I was

798
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:25,560
Speaker 1: time for me to go back, my uncle would give

799
00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:28,400
Speaker 1: me a dollar bill. Wow, and I would give it

800
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:32,400
Speaker 1: to my mom and and he knew my dad wouldn't

801
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:35,279
Speaker 1: take it right if it too proud for that, But

802
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:37,960
Speaker 1: that's given it to me to a gift to my mom.

803
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:42,160
Speaker 1: She make sure it went to good use. Okay, just

804
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:44,799
Speaker 1: at the time. How many kids in the family at

805
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:46,560
Speaker 1: that time there were three? And where are you in

806
00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:49,600
Speaker 1: the hierarchy? First, you're the oldest. All the hopes and

807
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:54,279
Speaker 1: dreams are in you. And at school you're good or

808
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:56,840
Speaker 1: bad at school. I was good at school. I didn't

809
00:51:56,920 --> 00:52:01,680
Speaker 1: like school, but I was good at school. And um,

810
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:05,680
Speaker 1: I was good at math, which you need to be

811
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:10,239
Speaker 1: good math to be an engineer. Yeah, yeah it, Um,

812
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:14,319
Speaker 1: I just I didn't like school, you know. So when

813
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:17,360
Speaker 1: I was like thirteen and I stopped going to my

814
00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:20,880
Speaker 1: uncle's studio, I started playing hooky from school and I

815
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:24,439
Speaker 1: would go over to see Sinatra at the Paramount Theater

816
00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:27,560
Speaker 1: with Tommy Dossie and for a quarter. For a quarter

817
00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:32,399
Speaker 1: you could um get in right, and then we would

818
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:35,320
Speaker 1: hide so we could stay and see a couple of shows.

819
00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:38,200
Speaker 1: It was, you know, it was really okay. So why

820
00:52:38,239 --> 00:52:42,200
Speaker 1: did you stop working with your uncle? I stopped. I

821
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:46,400
Speaker 1: started hanging out with a gang, and I started getting

822
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:49,680
Speaker 1: in some trouble. And series, what was the most trouble

823
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:52,600
Speaker 1: you got it? Well, I got other times. I got arrested,

824
00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:56,520
Speaker 1: never booked on anything, but arrested for being where I

825
00:52:56,520 --> 00:52:59,520
Speaker 1: shouldn't have been, and so forth. So it taught me

826
00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:03,080
Speaker 1: a less and and it kept getting worse. And um,

827
00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:08,960
Speaker 1: so from the time I was like thirteen and a half.

828
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:15,560
Speaker 1: On my seventeenth birthday, my parents signed for me to

829
00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:20,400
Speaker 1: enlisted the navy. Okay, had you finished high school? I

830
00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:23,000
Speaker 1: just finished high school. Okay, just to go back for

831
00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:26,560
Speaker 1: a second. Are you popular in school or just one

832
00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:29,360
Speaker 1: of the people there or whatever. Yeah, I was pretty popular.

833
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:31,360
Speaker 1: I mean I was had a lot of friends. You know,

834
00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:33,799
Speaker 1: he's to hang out. I played softball all the time.

835
00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:37,480
Speaker 1: I played a lot of sports. Um and yeah, I

836
00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:40,480
Speaker 1: know I had a lot of Okay, so your parents

837
00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:44,200
Speaker 1: enlisted you because they wanted to get you out of trouble. Yeah, yeah,

838
00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:48,560
Speaker 1: I said yes because I knew that I was going

839
00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:51,200
Speaker 1: to wind up in jail or something. I mean, you know,

840
00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:55,600
Speaker 1: we were just running, uh but you know, money for

841
00:53:55,680 --> 00:53:58,759
Speaker 1: the bookies, that kind of stuff they were. They were

842
00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:02,480
Speaker 1: going out to the hirpool and stealing out there. And

843
00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:06,680
Speaker 1: also I knew it was like somebody taught me on

844
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:08,680
Speaker 1: the show and get out of here. You're gonna be

845
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:11,560
Speaker 1: in trouble. And so I'm good and I went to

846
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:15,600
Speaker 1: I went to Great Legs. Look at Wait, Wait Wait,

847
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:18,440
Speaker 1: which brims of the services Navy. I was in the

848
00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:21,200
Speaker 1: Navy and went to Great Legs. My i Q is

849
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:25,560
Speaker 1: very high. So when we get out of boot camp. Uh,

850
00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:28,759
Speaker 1: the guy said, what do you want to do in

851
00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:31,840
Speaker 1: the navy? Okay, I said, I just want to be

852
00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:36,320
Speaker 1: a Poston's maid, you know, somebody on the deck. No, no, no,

853
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:39,120
Speaker 1: I Q was too high for that. So they sent

854
00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:43,719
Speaker 1: me to school in Washington, d C. Communications School, and

855
00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:47,920
Speaker 1: it's decoding and how to break down COLDE and Russian

856
00:54:48,040 --> 00:54:50,520
Speaker 1: code and this kind of stuff. So I do that

857
00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:56,120
Speaker 1: for a year. Just to be clear, you're listened the navy.

858
00:54:56,600 --> 00:54:57,920
Speaker 1: And he thought, in the back of your mind, this

859
00:54:58,080 --> 00:55:00,600
Speaker 1: is right after World War Two, that maybe there's a

860
00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:03,520
Speaker 1: ward you're gonna get you off. You know, there was

861
00:55:03,600 --> 00:55:06,680
Speaker 1: no at seventeen. You don't think and you you don't

862
00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:08,239
Speaker 1: think you ever going to be the one that's going

863
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:11,400
Speaker 1: to get hurt anyway. So yeah, so that that was

864
00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:16,800
Speaker 1: pretty cool. But I M, you're taking the communication of

865
00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:19,000
Speaker 1: course you were. Yeah, yeah, it was that. And then

866
00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:22,960
Speaker 1: so you know, in Washington at that time, it was great.

867
00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:29,920
Speaker 1: UM people like uh, Lady Day she couldn't work in

868
00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:34,640
Speaker 1: New York because of the UM cabaret. She couldn't get

869
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:37,440
Speaker 1: a cabaret license because of the drug use. And that

870
00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:40,120
Speaker 1: was a big problem back then. So all of those

871
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:43,600
Speaker 1: artists would come down to Washington, d C. Which was

872
00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:47,120
Speaker 1: where I was going to school. And so, I mean

873
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:50,279
Speaker 1: every weekend there was a place called Captain Tom's. There

874
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:52,759
Speaker 1: was some other clubs, but we had the best of

875
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:57,439
Speaker 1: the best jazz artists coming down there all the time.

876
00:55:57,520 --> 00:56:00,320
Speaker 1: So so every weekend it was you know, it was

877
00:56:00,680 --> 00:56:03,600
Speaker 1: just great. And I get to see all these people

878
00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:09,960
Speaker 1: and and enjoy enjoy that. So, um, I got out

879
00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:14,759
Speaker 1: of the service. Over two years and I got out.

880
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:19,719
Speaker 1: I was thinking of going to City College. Um. I

881
00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:22,440
Speaker 1: was only home for like ten eleven days and my

882
00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:26,000
Speaker 1: uncle called me and he said, a friend of mine

883
00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:30,400
Speaker 1: has a studio and then looking for an assistant. Would

884
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:34,600
Speaker 1: you be interested? I said absolutely. I didn't know what

885
00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:37,640
Speaker 1: I was gonna do, so he said, great, okay, uh

886
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:40,560
Speaker 1: go over and talk to him. I'll set everything up.

887
00:56:40,600 --> 00:56:42,920
Speaker 1: And did. I went. I talked to the guy and

888
00:56:43,320 --> 00:56:46,480
Speaker 1: he was my uncle's best friend. Right. Yeah, I knew

889
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:48,920
Speaker 1: I was going to get the job, you know. So okay,

890
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:52,000
Speaker 1: reported Monday, nine o'clock. Where was this this was on?

891
00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:57,040
Speaker 1: This was in the Steinway Building on fifty seven, right

892
00:56:57,080 --> 00:57:02,439
Speaker 1: across from Carnegie Hall. And you're living where I'm living.

893
00:57:02,480 --> 00:57:06,160
Speaker 1: In Brooklyn with your parents. No no, no, no, yes,

894
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:12,359
Speaker 1: yes with my parents. Right. Um, So you get the job.

895
00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:14,680
Speaker 1: I get the job. I show up. I knew I

896
00:57:14,719 --> 00:57:16,840
Speaker 1: was going to get anybody show up Monday nine am.

897
00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:22,520
Speaker 1: I get their divorce. Takes me uh, and he introduces me.

898
00:57:22,680 --> 00:57:25,800
Speaker 1: There's the two engineers who worked there. One was a

899
00:57:25,920 --> 00:57:32,560
Speaker 1: German engineer who wore a monocle I swear and and

900
00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:36,320
Speaker 1: even a white coat and with click as heels kind

901
00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:38,680
Speaker 1: of thing. And the other was this young guy about

902
00:57:39,040 --> 00:57:45,120
Speaker 1: seven years old, Tommy Dowd. Wow. So I look at

903
00:57:45,160 --> 00:57:46,600
Speaker 1: tom he time he looks at me, and it was

904
00:57:46,680 --> 00:57:52,400
Speaker 1: like instant friendship or something. So that was it. So

905
00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:55,560
Speaker 1: he bought me a notebook and then I was under

906
00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:59,120
Speaker 1: his wing and we worked together at that studio for

907
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:04,720
Speaker 1: two years, and then the studio folded. He went to

908
00:58:04,800 --> 00:58:10,640
Speaker 1: another studio, and I went to a place called Nola Recording,

909
00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:17,240
Speaker 1: which is recording studio and a and a rehearsal hall.

910
00:58:18,360 --> 00:58:20,800
Speaker 1: So I was there a year and Tommy called me

911
00:58:21,640 --> 00:58:24,880
Speaker 1: and said, the studio that I'm at looking for another guy,

912
00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:28,200
Speaker 1: and I recommended you come on over, and I went

913
00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:30,920
Speaker 1: over an interview and I got that job. The name

914
00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:34,880
Speaker 1: of that studio that was called Fulton Recording, which later

915
00:58:35,080 --> 00:58:41,320
Speaker 1: was brought by Oh god, I can't think the company now,

916
00:58:41,320 --> 00:58:44,840
Speaker 1: I think of it. Um anyway, So Fulton and it

917
00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:50,280
Speaker 1: was Tommy and me and uh an engineer by name

918
00:58:50,320 --> 00:58:53,640
Speaker 1: of Bob Doherty, and and we were doing all the

919
00:58:54,360 --> 00:58:59,840
Speaker 1: Lette commercials, look chop all those things, cigarette commercials. Okay,

920
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:04,560
Speaker 1: lot when you were at the first studio, UH, were

921
00:59:04,600 --> 00:59:08,440
Speaker 1: you cutting music or we're cutting commercials. We're doing a

922
00:59:08,560 --> 00:59:11,720
Speaker 1: little of everything. We we did Voice of the America

923
00:59:12,840 --> 00:59:18,600
Speaker 1: stuff on six transcription disc shows and in different languages.

924
00:59:19,320 --> 00:59:22,160
Speaker 1: Tell Us of Alice, his whole family would come and

925
00:59:22,280 --> 00:59:25,720
Speaker 1: they would in Greek. They would do these shows that

926
00:59:25,800 --> 00:59:30,120
Speaker 1: would get broadcast over to Greece. UM. So it was

927
00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:33,080
Speaker 1: that was interesting. But we also were doing all the

928
00:59:33,160 --> 00:59:40,400
Speaker 1: Atlantic work and Prestige records, uh, national records. There was

929
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:45,480
Speaker 1: a lot of little labels sitting in UH. So he's

930
00:59:45,560 --> 00:59:49,440
Speaker 1: doing all this work, um and and getting to do

931
00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:55,240
Speaker 1: uh some of the great Atlantic acts. You know, Tom

932
00:59:55,320 --> 00:59:59,080
Speaker 1: worked ultimately with them. So you're working in this studio

933
00:59:59,200 --> 01:00:02,360
Speaker 1: with Tom and the other guy. What are the hours

934
01:00:02,440 --> 01:00:08,720
Speaker 1: in that eround? Uh could be any time and you

935
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:10,920
Speaker 1: know if even if you worked late till eleven, you

936
01:00:11,040 --> 01:00:13,320
Speaker 1: still have to be in in the morning around nine

937
01:00:13,360 --> 01:00:18,120
Speaker 1: in the morning. So um um, yeah we did. There

938
01:00:18,240 --> 01:00:22,760
Speaker 1: wasn't a lot of late late stuff, but yeah, you

939
01:00:22,840 --> 01:00:26,080
Speaker 1: know it goes seven to ten sometimes. Okay. So how

940
01:00:26,440 --> 01:00:29,360
Speaker 1: so when did you get married in this picture? So

941
01:00:29,560 --> 01:00:33,560
Speaker 1: I got married? Uh, right in the middle. Okay. So

942
01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:36,320
Speaker 1: how hard was it? How understanding that your wife had

943
01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:40,440
Speaker 1: to be about these hours? Uh? Yeah, she she was

944
01:00:40,520 --> 01:00:42,640
Speaker 1: pretty good about it. I think she was happy we

945
01:00:42,760 --> 01:00:45,840
Speaker 1: got married just to get out of the environment she

946
01:00:46,040 --> 01:00:48,800
Speaker 1: was in, which was not very good. You know, her

947
01:00:48,880 --> 01:00:54,000
Speaker 1: parents were uh splitting up and having so to meet her.

948
01:00:54,680 --> 01:00:59,120
Speaker 1: I never read a dance then. Back then, Yeah, it

949
01:00:59,240 --> 01:01:02,240
Speaker 1: was a danceing. Oh we have Charlie Vntoura and Bob

950
01:01:02,320 --> 01:01:05,400
Speaker 1: for the people, and everybody be out there jute bugging

951
01:01:05,480 --> 01:01:07,520
Speaker 1: and dancing, and you know there'll be a lot of

952
01:01:07,600 --> 01:01:10,800
Speaker 1: single guys, single girls. You go and ask some of

953
01:01:10,920 --> 01:01:20,160
Speaker 1: the Hanson. Yeah, it was a lot of fun. Okay.

954
01:01:20,240 --> 01:01:22,120
Speaker 1: So you're working at the studio with Tom and then

955
01:01:22,160 --> 01:01:27,000
Speaker 1: what happens next, Well, I'm there three months and they

956
01:01:29,160 --> 01:01:33,720
Speaker 1: my boss says, okay, Saturday, you're in on all by yourself.

957
01:01:34,720 --> 01:01:38,840
Speaker 1: There's just a three little demo records, one of ten

958
01:01:38,960 --> 01:01:42,360
Speaker 1: one or twelve one or two, and you do that.

959
01:01:42,600 --> 01:01:46,440
Speaker 1: So the guy comes in. First guy, he plays guitar

960
01:01:46,680 --> 01:01:49,640
Speaker 1: and sings the song he wrote for his daughter, We

961
01:01:49,800 --> 01:01:53,680
Speaker 1: caught an Ascetate at seventy eight done. We give it

962
01:01:53,760 --> 01:01:56,920
Speaker 1: to him. He gives me fifteen dollars and he leaves.

963
01:01:57,720 --> 01:01:59,640
Speaker 1: The other guy comes in. He sits down at the

964
01:01:59,680 --> 01:02:04,840
Speaker 1: piano and he plays a song, h happy birthday for somebody.

965
01:02:05,440 --> 01:02:08,400
Speaker 1: So I cut the asketa, I give it to him

966
01:02:08,440 --> 01:02:12,120
Speaker 1: and fifteen bucks and knee ladies. So now I'm waiting

967
01:02:12,200 --> 01:02:15,160
Speaker 1: for a guy by name of Merca to show up.

968
01:02:15,240 --> 01:02:18,640
Speaker 1: So the elevated toway was opened up and all these

969
01:02:18,760 --> 01:02:22,720
Speaker 1: musicians start coming out, and I said, WHOA, what's going on.

970
01:02:23,200 --> 01:02:26,840
Speaker 1: We're on the second floor. We're here for the record

971
01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:33,840
Speaker 1: date No Mercy, Mercy Records, Mercer Allington, do Gellington's son.

972
01:02:34,480 --> 01:02:36,720
Speaker 1: I said, oh no, no, there's a mistake. And here's

973
01:02:36,760 --> 01:02:39,680
Speaker 1: Johnny Hodges standing in front of me and Billy straight

974
01:02:39,840 --> 01:02:42,960
Speaker 1: on and on. You know, he's it's like Babe Ruth

975
01:02:43,040 --> 01:02:46,120
Speaker 1: and Joe the main exactly like I mean, my heart's

976
01:02:46,120 --> 01:02:50,200
Speaker 1: going like this, and so I get on the phone

977
01:02:50,240 --> 01:02:53,360
Speaker 1: and called Tommy. No answer. Back then there were no

978
01:02:53,520 --> 01:02:57,040
Speaker 1: cells and call no answer. I don't know what the

979
01:02:57,120 --> 01:03:01,080
Speaker 1: hell to do. So we only had an eight input console,

980
01:03:02,080 --> 01:03:04,400
Speaker 1: and I had that book that Tommy bought me, and

981
01:03:04,520 --> 01:03:07,960
Speaker 1: I all the diagrams how they set up and what mikes.

982
01:03:08,560 --> 01:03:11,160
Speaker 1: So I got the book. When I set up, put

983
01:03:11,200 --> 01:03:14,320
Speaker 1: the mics away. They were and and the guys kept

984
01:03:14,360 --> 01:03:17,880
Speaker 1: showing up and they were sitting down and laughing and

985
01:03:18,080 --> 01:03:20,640
Speaker 1: doing whatever, and I'm in the control and trying to

986
01:03:20,720 --> 01:03:23,040
Speaker 1: figure out what the how I'm going to do this

987
01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:29,520
Speaker 1: and do Gellington walks and he's got this gorgeous brown

988
01:03:29,640 --> 01:03:33,480
Speaker 1: suit on. I mean, it's just you know, the way

989
01:03:33,520 --> 01:03:36,960
Speaker 1: he had his head done and all. And I said,

990
01:03:38,280 --> 01:03:43,400
Speaker 1: Mr Ellington, there's a huge mistake here. He said, why

991
01:03:43,480 --> 01:03:46,680
Speaker 1: is that. I said, well, they thought this was just

992
01:03:46,800 --> 01:03:50,160
Speaker 1: a little demo and and I'm not qualified to do

993
01:03:50,320 --> 01:03:53,880
Speaker 1: anything like this. He said, what do you mean. I said, well,

994
01:03:53,880 --> 01:03:56,840
Speaker 1: I've never done anything like sending. He looked out and

995
01:03:56,880 --> 01:04:01,960
Speaker 1: he said, everybody looks comfortable out. I said, yeah, but

996
01:04:02,360 --> 01:04:06,280
Speaker 1: you know that's in here that I'm worried about. He said, no, no, no,

997
01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:10,000
Speaker 1: don't We'll get through it. Don't worry, just relaxed. And

998
01:04:10,160 --> 01:04:13,120
Speaker 1: he really did everything to calm me down. I think

999
01:04:13,160 --> 01:04:15,360
Speaker 1: he thought that if I don't calm him down, we're

1000
01:04:15,400 --> 01:04:17,959
Speaker 1: not going to get anything. So we did. He called

1001
01:04:18,000 --> 01:04:21,280
Speaker 1: me down, kept patting my thigh right next to me.

1002
01:04:21,800 --> 01:04:23,800
Speaker 1: Don't worry something, we're going he said. Then you know,

1003
01:04:23,880 --> 01:04:27,280
Speaker 1: I hit the sack. Oh, saxophone sound wonderful, you know,

1004
01:04:27,400 --> 01:04:30,240
Speaker 1: hit and stuff like that. He's nice comments, and so

1005
01:04:30,360 --> 01:04:32,960
Speaker 1: we got through it. I did four songs and three

1006
01:04:33,040 --> 01:04:35,520
Speaker 1: or four songs in three hours, and that was it.

1007
01:04:36,160 --> 01:04:39,920
Speaker 1: And that was my first section, the first thing, and

1008
01:04:40,160 --> 01:04:44,400
Speaker 1: you know, Duke Ellington, Oh my god, I couldn't believe it.

1009
01:04:45,120 --> 01:04:48,480
Speaker 1: So then three weeks later, I'm doing the same thing.

1010
01:04:49,080 --> 01:04:51,760
Speaker 1: So now I finished it too. Just to be clear,

1011
01:04:51,960 --> 01:04:53,840
Speaker 1: this is the very first studio you work out of

1012
01:04:53,920 --> 01:04:59,640
Speaker 1: the third first, So so I finish up. I'm doing

1013
01:04:59,680 --> 01:05:02,080
Speaker 1: the same think demos and the last ones at two

1014
01:05:02,240 --> 01:05:05,560
Speaker 1: and I'm finished. I'm getting ready, you know, gonna go

1015
01:05:05,640 --> 01:05:07,840
Speaker 1: home and phone rings. I pick it up. It's herb

1016
01:05:07,920 --> 01:05:12,720
Speaker 1: Abramson Anderson let me said, hey, how was anybody in

1017
01:05:12,800 --> 01:05:16,160
Speaker 1: the studio this afternoon? I said, no, no, no, nobody

1018
01:05:16,240 --> 01:05:18,640
Speaker 1: here he said, I'm going to bring a group over here.

1019
01:05:18,800 --> 01:05:21,800
Speaker 1: Cool with that? I said, yeah, sure, you know, I

1020
01:05:21,880 --> 01:05:25,360
Speaker 1: didn't want to say no. So he brought over this

1021
01:05:25,520 --> 01:05:30,000
Speaker 1: group and uh, and we caught two songs. One song

1022
01:05:30,120 --> 01:05:33,760
Speaker 1: was Skylark, which is the B side, and the other

1023
01:05:33,880 --> 01:05:35,600
Speaker 1: was a song called Don't You Know I Love You,

1024
01:05:36,400 --> 01:05:40,960
Speaker 1: which became a huge race record hit, I mean a

1025
01:05:41,080 --> 01:05:42,920
Speaker 1: big head. It was on a chart for like twelve

1026
01:05:43,000 --> 01:05:46,000
Speaker 1: weeks in a row, and I had recorded it, So

1027
01:05:46,160 --> 01:05:49,120
Speaker 1: now I had to Kellington and I hit a race

1028
01:05:49,200 --> 01:05:52,560
Speaker 1: record hit, R and B hit back then. So then

1029
01:05:52,840 --> 01:05:56,800
Speaker 1: Atlantic started using me on more things when Tommy was

1030
01:05:56,920 --> 01:06:00,240
Speaker 1: busy doing something. I started doing Clyde mix at a

1031
01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:05,600
Speaker 1: uh Martin jazz quartet, Chris Conna, you know that kind

1032
01:06:05,640 --> 01:06:09,880
Speaker 1: of stuff. So I was really starting to hone up

1033
01:06:10,000 --> 01:06:13,200
Speaker 1: on on things and how to do things and learning

1034
01:06:13,240 --> 01:06:18,160
Speaker 1: more all the time from Tommy. So that case you're there,

1035
01:06:18,240 --> 01:06:19,880
Speaker 1: then you go to the other place. Now you're back

1036
01:06:19,960 --> 01:06:24,440
Speaker 1: with Tommy, mac with Tommy, and you're cutting what cutting everything?

1037
01:06:24,560 --> 01:06:30,880
Speaker 1: A lot of Tico records, Tito Pointe, Tito Rodriguez, Machito, Uh,

1038
01:06:32,280 --> 01:06:35,400
Speaker 1: Cam Callaway, Uh, you know a lot of that. I'm

1039
01:06:35,440 --> 01:06:40,120
Speaker 1: doing a lot of World Pacific Jazz records, Jerry Mulligan,

1040
01:06:40,800 --> 01:06:46,960
Speaker 1: the songbook, chet Chet Baker, uh, Bobby Brooke, maholl you know,

1041
01:06:47,040 --> 01:06:50,120
Speaker 1: all those great jazz things, and and the studio was

1042
01:06:50,200 --> 01:06:54,200
Speaker 1: pretty famous for the jazz. A lot of jazz artists

1043
01:06:54,600 --> 01:06:58,040
Speaker 1: like to work there. The studio was built once again,

1044
01:06:58,080 --> 01:07:01,520
Speaker 1: the name of the studio was Full and Record. Yeah,

1045
01:07:01,760 --> 01:07:06,920
Speaker 1: and it was the later bought by Coastal Recording Recording,

1046
01:07:06,960 --> 01:07:11,320
Speaker 1: and then the name changed the Coastal But yeah, it

1047
01:07:11,400 --> 01:07:14,120
Speaker 1: was Tommy Dowd me trying to think the other two

1048
01:07:14,200 --> 01:07:19,520
Speaker 1: guys Heinz Kuberko was there and engineers, and so how

1049
01:07:19,600 --> 01:07:21,360
Speaker 1: did that play out? How long were you there? I

1050
01:07:21,600 --> 01:07:27,439
Speaker 1: was there four years? Yeah, I was there about four years.

1051
01:07:28,840 --> 01:07:32,760
Speaker 1: What kind of money? Uh, good money because yeah, top

1052
01:07:32,920 --> 01:07:36,000
Speaker 1: union money. So I was doing really well. I was. Yeah,

1053
01:07:36,000 --> 01:07:40,200
Speaker 1: I'm very happy. And still after four years. What happens. Well,

1054
01:07:41,080 --> 01:07:44,520
Speaker 1: Dick Bark, who owned World Pacific Jazz, he would use

1055
01:07:44,600 --> 01:07:49,440
Speaker 1: me all the time on his great jazz albums and uh,

1056
01:07:50,320 --> 01:07:54,720
Speaker 1: so we were there doing street swingers or something and

1057
01:07:55,080 --> 01:07:59,320
Speaker 1: uh he Jimmy Duffrey, you know some of the great

1058
01:07:59,360 --> 01:08:03,040
Speaker 1: old and he said, now you want to move to California.

1059
01:08:03,080 --> 01:08:04,640
Speaker 1: They don't have to fly all the way to New

1060
01:08:04,720 --> 01:08:08,000
Speaker 1: York to use you. And I, you know, we joke

1061
01:08:08,040 --> 01:08:09,680
Speaker 1: and he laugh and I said, all right, we'll give

1062
01:08:09,720 --> 01:08:12,280
Speaker 1: me a job and I'll come out. That was it.

1063
01:08:13,920 --> 01:08:15,800
Speaker 1: Three weeks later, I got a call on the phone,

1064
01:08:16,520 --> 01:08:19,960
Speaker 1: tick Pocket, How I got your job out here? The

1065
01:08:20,160 --> 01:08:23,200
Speaker 1: best studio in in l A. They know you work.

1066
01:08:23,479 --> 01:08:27,280
Speaker 1: They want you good money, shers. If you want it,

1067
01:08:27,320 --> 01:08:31,280
Speaker 1: you're gonna let me know. In two weeks, I talked

1068
01:08:31,320 --> 01:08:33,680
Speaker 1: it over with my wife. We had two kids at

1069
01:08:33,760 --> 01:08:39,479
Speaker 1: that time. Um, I was still a baby myself. Um,

1070
01:08:40,240 --> 01:08:45,800
Speaker 1: and we did. We we moved out to Burbank. That

1071
01:08:46,000 --> 01:08:52,080
Speaker 1: was what year. That was the same year the Dodgers moved.

1072
01:08:52,600 --> 01:08:55,040
Speaker 1: You moved with the dogs, moved with the Dodgers. I

1073
01:08:55,200 --> 01:08:58,080
Speaker 1: was an Ardent Dodger fan all my life, so yeah,

1074
01:08:58,120 --> 01:09:00,920
Speaker 1: I moved with the dogs. So you moved to Burbank?

1075
01:09:00,960 --> 01:09:03,040
Speaker 1: What was burd Bank like that? It was already nice.

1076
01:09:03,520 --> 01:09:05,400
Speaker 1: It was nice. Say, you know, it's small. We we

1077
01:09:05,520 --> 01:09:08,519
Speaker 1: have a nice little Uh. We had a two bedroom

1078
01:09:08,640 --> 01:09:12,280
Speaker 1: condo and and it was nice and uh we had

1079
01:09:12,360 --> 01:09:15,559
Speaker 1: some friends that lived down the street. It was kind

1080
01:09:15,560 --> 01:09:18,360
Speaker 1: of it was it was nice I was working most

1081
01:09:18,400 --> 01:09:21,519
Speaker 1: of the time, so it wasn't a matter of justin.

1082
01:09:21,600 --> 01:09:24,160
Speaker 1: You were in the darkness the whole time. Yeah right, Okay,

1083
01:09:24,240 --> 01:09:25,920
Speaker 1: So that you go to work for this studio. The

1084
01:09:26,040 --> 01:09:30,360
Speaker 1: name of that is um that is radio recorders. Okay,

1085
01:09:30,400 --> 01:09:34,040
Speaker 1: so you're radio recorders and that ultimately ties up with

1086
01:09:34,240 --> 01:09:37,760
Speaker 1: moving to our c A okay eventually, yeah, okay. So

1087
01:09:37,880 --> 01:09:41,400
Speaker 1: when you're recording at that era, okay, when you start

1088
01:09:41,479 --> 01:09:47,200
Speaker 1: with Duke Ellington, what does equipment like? Well, the equipment

1089
01:09:47,640 --> 01:09:49,960
Speaker 1: there are a lot of good microphones back then. You

1090
01:09:50,040 --> 01:09:55,760
Speaker 1: know the great um Um Neiman microphone that have that

1091
01:09:55,880 --> 01:09:59,080
Speaker 1: forty seven everybody you know that came out in se

1092
01:09:59,720 --> 01:10:05,000
Speaker 1: and thank yeah, I think so, and they you could

1093
01:10:05,040 --> 01:10:08,400
Speaker 1: buy one back then for three d bucks. I tried

1094
01:10:08,479 --> 01:10:13,160
Speaker 1: to try that today. So the equipment we were starting

1095
01:10:13,200 --> 01:10:19,080
Speaker 1: to get um good uh two microphones and things. And

1096
01:10:19,479 --> 01:10:23,160
Speaker 1: one of the things we were Tommy and I and

1097
01:10:23,240 --> 01:10:26,759
Speaker 1: the engineers back in New York, we were using those

1098
01:10:27,040 --> 01:10:30,920
Speaker 1: two mics a lot. When I came to California, they

1099
01:10:30,960 --> 01:10:36,080
Speaker 1: weren't using them as much, and I started like putting

1100
01:10:36,120 --> 01:10:40,120
Speaker 1: it on the bass instrument. Bass players were coming in

1101
01:10:40,120 --> 01:10:42,439
Speaker 1: and saying, oh man, I love that sound on my bass.

1102
01:10:43,880 --> 01:10:47,479
Speaker 1: Other engineers would come were using ribbon mics. They were

1103
01:10:47,600 --> 01:10:52,240
Speaker 1: using different things, different ribbon or whatever, you know, same

1104
01:10:52,320 --> 01:10:56,320
Speaker 1: with the drums. So you know, we had we were

1105
01:10:56,439 --> 01:11:00,639
Speaker 1: using different microphone techniques back East and they were out

1106
01:11:00,720 --> 01:11:04,479
Speaker 1: here with different mics on different instructs. And that's how

1107
01:11:04,600 --> 01:11:07,640
Speaker 1: I started doing what I knew I could do, and

1108
01:11:07,760 --> 01:11:10,800
Speaker 1: I started getting a lot of work. Then they were

1109
01:11:10,840 --> 01:11:14,800
Speaker 1: starting to record this record with Hank Mancini, Henry Mancini,

1110
01:11:15,120 --> 01:11:18,120
Speaker 1: who was an arranger and I worked with him as

1111
01:11:18,320 --> 01:11:21,720
Speaker 1: as an arranger on different things, and the nicest guy.

1112
01:11:21,840 --> 01:11:26,760
Speaker 1: But uh Bones how who is an incredible engineering producer. Um,

1113
01:11:27,200 --> 01:11:34,000
Speaker 1: he was doing the record and evidently cy Rady who

1114
01:11:34,160 --> 01:11:39,280
Speaker 1: was the producer and Bones, something happened. But he the

1115
01:11:39,360 --> 01:11:42,240
Speaker 1: Bones said look I'm not going I can't do this

1116
01:11:42,400 --> 01:11:46,519
Speaker 1: anymore and left or whatever. But all I know is

1117
01:11:47,280 --> 01:11:50,160
Speaker 1: I got grabbed by the shirt collar and said, okay,

1118
01:11:50,200 --> 01:11:53,559
Speaker 1: all you're doing this. I wanted up finishing the Peter

1119
01:11:53,680 --> 01:11:57,160
Speaker 1: Gun album. And then because of that, I started doing

1120
01:11:57,200 --> 01:12:00,080
Speaker 1: all the Mancini stuff. And then because of that, I

1121
01:12:00,200 --> 01:12:04,439
Speaker 1: started doing a lot of the r c A stuff. Um,

1122
01:12:05,520 --> 01:12:09,000
Speaker 1: you know, right, Peterson and some of the acts that

1123
01:12:09,120 --> 01:12:12,360
Speaker 1: they had back then. Okay, But going more about the equipment,

1124
01:12:12,439 --> 01:12:15,400
Speaker 1: you've lived through a lot of evolution. First, talk about

1125
01:12:15,520 --> 01:12:18,519
Speaker 1: the boards. What did you feel you know, it was there.

1126
01:12:18,800 --> 01:12:22,280
Speaker 1: The big thing in the seventies was the Knives boards

1127
01:12:22,320 --> 01:12:25,919
Speaker 1: that all was of a suddenly went to SSL and digital.

1128
01:12:26,400 --> 01:12:28,920
Speaker 1: What's your view point on all that stuff? Well, I

1129
01:12:29,000 --> 01:12:33,320
Speaker 1: don't use digital boards. I don't like them tonight my question? Okay, why,

1130
01:12:33,720 --> 01:12:35,559
Speaker 1: I don't know. I just don't like the way they sound.

1131
01:12:36,200 --> 01:12:39,360
Speaker 1: I like analog boards. My favorite board is a Nive

1132
01:12:40,439 --> 01:12:42,920
Speaker 1: analog board. I love the preamps, I love the way

1133
01:12:42,960 --> 01:12:45,000
Speaker 1: they sound. But but there are a lot of great

1134
01:12:45,240 --> 01:12:48,519
Speaker 1: boards out there, uh that I couldn't work on. Quad

1135
01:12:48,840 --> 01:12:53,160
Speaker 1: was a really good one. That's you know, many many

1136
01:12:54,040 --> 01:12:58,479
Speaker 1: nice good consoles. I'm not a big SSL fan. Um

1137
01:12:58,800 --> 01:13:01,519
Speaker 1: it seems the titles turned to ends them anyway. Yeah, yeah,

1138
01:13:02,120 --> 01:13:06,960
Speaker 1: so I just everything just it didn't sound musical enough

1139
01:13:07,040 --> 01:13:09,799
Speaker 1: for me. And how about when we went to digital?

1140
01:13:09,880 --> 01:13:12,240
Speaker 1: What do you think about that? Well? I hated at first,

1141
01:13:12,360 --> 01:13:14,920
Speaker 1: and I was not going to go I mean I

1142
01:13:15,040 --> 01:13:21,360
Speaker 1: did like, um, I did a digital album with with

1143
01:13:21,520 --> 01:13:24,519
Speaker 1: a group on Warner Brothers. I can't think of the

1144
01:13:24,600 --> 01:13:27,560
Speaker 1: name of the group, now it'll come to me. But

1145
01:13:29,200 --> 01:13:31,920
Speaker 1: what would happen? Would you know? We were this is

1146
01:13:31,960 --> 01:13:38,400
Speaker 1: with the Mitsubishi recorder. Yeah, two tracks. Yeah, that's what

1147
01:13:38,520 --> 01:13:42,160
Speaker 1: we used on Barbara a lot. She had her own

1148
01:13:42,920 --> 01:13:48,559
Speaker 1: or Columbia gave her a machine. I didn't know that. Yeah, yeah,

1149
01:13:48,840 --> 01:13:50,360
Speaker 1: so she had a machine. What else did she have?

1150
01:13:50,680 --> 01:13:52,840
Speaker 1: She had that, that's for sure, and that was on

1151
01:13:52,960 --> 01:13:55,600
Speaker 1: every session, so she would truck it in or for

1152
01:13:55,640 --> 01:13:58,240
Speaker 1: wherever it was. Yeah, I'm working with this act on

1153
01:13:58,280 --> 01:14:02,560
Speaker 1: Warner Brothers and What Happens um, which I had to

1154
01:14:03,400 --> 01:14:06,240
Speaker 1: do the digital album, Ah right right, Yeah, it just

1155
01:14:06,320 --> 01:14:10,000
Speaker 1: didn't sound real musical to me, you know, so I

1156
01:14:10,160 --> 01:14:13,400
Speaker 1: just stayed away from it, and everybody was starting to

1157
01:14:13,560 --> 01:14:17,840
Speaker 1: go to k you know. And so when it went

1158
01:14:17,920 --> 01:14:21,320
Speaker 1: to n and they were able to, you know, elevate

1159
01:14:21,560 --> 01:14:25,080
Speaker 1: the quality, then it started sounding really good and you

1160
01:14:25,120 --> 01:14:30,160
Speaker 1: couldn't tell the difference. So my assistant when we were

1161
01:14:30,200 --> 01:14:34,280
Speaker 1: doing we were doing something with Tommy Lapuma and Diana

1162
01:14:35,000 --> 01:14:39,200
Speaker 1: and um, so we recorded it on analog tape and

1163
01:14:39,360 --> 01:14:43,040
Speaker 1: pro tools at at. So when they came in to

1164
01:14:43,200 --> 01:14:46,960
Speaker 1: listen and they they didn't want to convert and wanted

1165
01:14:48,400 --> 01:14:51,840
Speaker 1: we just switched back and forth from the analog to

1166
01:14:52,000 --> 01:14:55,559
Speaker 1: the digital because we had them locked up and they

1167
01:14:55,600 --> 01:14:58,760
Speaker 1: couldn't hell the difference. They didn't even notice we were

1168
01:15:00,040 --> 01:15:02,680
Speaker 1: so that was great, Okay, all right, we'll do that.

1169
01:15:03,120 --> 01:15:07,960
Speaker 1: But she liked the piano solo and take two. Let it,

1170
01:15:08,040 --> 01:15:11,519
Speaker 1: didn't want to take three. So in protels, he just

1171
01:15:12,760 --> 01:15:15,360
Speaker 1: my assistant dropped it in, took the other and it

1172
01:15:15,479 --> 01:15:19,640
Speaker 1: was done. It took thirty seconds. If we had to

1173
01:15:19,680 --> 01:15:21,320
Speaker 1: cut tape and do all that, it would take in

1174
01:15:21,360 --> 01:15:24,599
Speaker 1: a half an hour. And now you have musicians hanging around,

1175
01:15:25,200 --> 01:15:28,439
Speaker 1: you know, waiting, uh, while we're cutting tape and and

1176
01:15:28,560 --> 01:15:30,840
Speaker 1: doing this way. We didn't have any of that. So

1177
01:15:31,200 --> 01:15:34,000
Speaker 1: that was it. That was the conversion. And from then on,

1178
01:15:34,240 --> 01:15:37,280
Speaker 1: I've just talked to everybody and I go, I do

1179
01:15:37,439 --> 01:15:42,679
Speaker 1: everything at one now, and uh, I love the quality

1180
01:15:42,840 --> 01:15:45,439
Speaker 1: and it's just a reproduction we have to worry about

1181
01:15:45,840 --> 01:15:48,960
Speaker 1: exactly right. Okay, So when you moved into pro tools,

1182
01:15:48,960 --> 01:15:52,280
Speaker 1: your assistant ran the pro tools rig and still at

1183
01:15:52,320 --> 01:15:54,760
Speaker 1: this point he's the guy who's running it or we

1184
01:15:54,840 --> 01:15:58,080
Speaker 1: are you familiar with I can they sent me up

1185
01:15:58,120 --> 01:16:00,360
Speaker 1: so I can start and stop and go back and fourth.

1186
01:16:00,920 --> 01:16:03,840
Speaker 1: But yeah, I don't want to get into all that

1187
01:16:04,000 --> 01:16:07,800
Speaker 1: other stuff of editing and pro tools, not my thing.

1188
01:16:08,120 --> 01:16:12,599
Speaker 1: How important is the room? The recording room? Wow? Probably

1189
01:16:12,640 --> 01:16:15,960
Speaker 1: the most important. Uh yeah, if you have a good

1190
01:16:16,040 --> 01:16:18,080
Speaker 1: room to start with. If you have a bad room,

1191
01:16:18,600 --> 01:16:21,960
Speaker 1: it's almost impossible to get a good sound. Uh. You know,

1192
01:16:22,120 --> 01:16:25,560
Speaker 1: you've really got to have to use your imagination on

1193
01:16:26,320 --> 01:16:28,880
Speaker 1: on on how you want to do things. But a

1194
01:16:28,960 --> 01:16:32,120
Speaker 1: good room is you know, you can put Mike's almost anywhere.

1195
01:16:32,439 --> 01:16:35,880
Speaker 1: You're going to get good reflection, you know. And and

1196
01:16:35,960 --> 01:16:42,840
Speaker 1: the fact that you get leakage makes things gives more dimension,

1197
01:16:43,600 --> 01:16:47,040
Speaker 1: It makes things sound bigger and more open. But leakage

1198
01:16:47,080 --> 01:16:51,200
Speaker 1: would make it harder to mix right, Well, it depends

1199
01:16:51,280 --> 01:16:53,759
Speaker 1: on on the leak at. You know, the condom leaks.

1200
01:16:54,160 --> 01:16:57,120
Speaker 1: That's why I always tell everybody you want to use

1201
01:16:57,479 --> 01:17:00,600
Speaker 1: great microphones, because when you get leaka, you on a

1202
01:17:00,640 --> 01:17:04,400
Speaker 1: good microphone, you're getting good leak at and that is

1203
01:17:04,439 --> 01:17:06,680
Speaker 1: a good thing. When you got a cheap mic and

1204
01:17:06,720 --> 01:17:09,639
Speaker 1: you're getting that, say, Lenka, you don't want that. That's

1205
01:17:09,680 --> 01:17:12,880
Speaker 1: just cluttering up stuff. So now is a good room

1206
01:17:13,000 --> 01:17:14,960
Speaker 1: magic or there are certain things that you can do

1207
01:17:15,080 --> 01:17:18,080
Speaker 1: to make it a good room and someone's constructing. Well

1208
01:17:18,160 --> 01:17:20,720
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, I think that you can help make

1209
01:17:20,800 --> 01:17:26,400
Speaker 1: a room into a good room. Um, but it would

1210
01:17:26,439 --> 01:17:32,720
Speaker 1: have to start out to be reasonably good in the beginning. Um. Yeah,

1211
01:17:32,920 --> 01:17:36,559
Speaker 1: you know, in good rooms sometimes that just accidentally happen.

1212
01:17:37,120 --> 01:17:42,000
Speaker 1: Some guy puts a couple of things up and it's magic. Now,

1213
01:17:42,640 --> 01:17:47,320
Speaker 1: of the studios you've worked in, which ones have good rooms? Well,

1214
01:17:47,360 --> 01:17:51,120
Speaker 1: look the original Larca studios at Sunset and Mind they

1215
01:17:51,200 --> 01:17:54,920
Speaker 1: had two rooms there, A and B, and those are

1216
01:17:54,960 --> 01:17:57,599
Speaker 1: two of the best rooms I've ever worked in. Then

1217
01:17:57,680 --> 01:18:00,400
Speaker 1: does that because accident or they have engine years come

1218
01:18:00,400 --> 01:18:03,800
Speaker 1: in and the engineers come in and do everything and

1219
01:18:04,280 --> 01:18:09,439
Speaker 1: and um and tested with a lot of testing was done. Um.

1220
01:18:10,400 --> 01:18:15,160
Speaker 1: Another great room is a room like uh MJM scoring stage. Right,

1221
01:18:15,360 --> 01:18:18,519
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's Sony scoring stage. It's it's a

1222
01:18:19,160 --> 01:18:22,040
Speaker 1: gorgeous room and you know, you look at it and

1223
01:18:22,160 --> 01:18:24,720
Speaker 1: it looks like, you know, it's not even done yet,

1224
01:18:24,960 --> 01:18:27,800
Speaker 1: right right, But but the sound in the room, it's

1225
01:18:27,880 --> 01:18:31,840
Speaker 1: just amazing. Staying with that because they mixed movies and

1226
01:18:31,880 --> 01:18:34,200
Speaker 1: there's an engineer mixes the music in. Have you ever

1227
01:18:34,320 --> 01:18:36,960
Speaker 1: done that? No? No, I I did a lot of

1228
01:18:37,439 --> 01:18:41,320
Speaker 1: TV stuff early you know. Um, when I worked at

1229
01:18:41,479 --> 01:18:44,080
Speaker 1: R c A as a staff engineer, we would do

1230
01:18:44,120 --> 01:18:47,320
Speaker 1: a lot of documentaries and that stuff, but not a

1231
01:18:47,360 --> 01:18:49,479
Speaker 1: lot of movies, although I got to work with all

1232
01:18:49,520 --> 01:18:55,479
Speaker 1: the great scorers you know. Okay, So today everything is flipped.

1233
01:18:55,920 --> 01:18:59,000
Speaker 1: A lot of people make these records digitally at home

1234
01:18:59,520 --> 01:19:02,360
Speaker 1: because they don't want to pay that money. Yeah, you

1235
01:19:03,160 --> 01:19:06,360
Speaker 1: side there, tell me your take. I hated. I I

1236
01:19:06,520 --> 01:19:09,800
Speaker 1: just hated when you know, I I hear people you know,

1237
01:19:13,040 --> 01:19:16,080
Speaker 1: just it's it's a quality of the stuff. What's happening

1238
01:19:16,240 --> 01:19:21,280
Speaker 1: is the people set up studios at home, and then

1239
01:19:21,320 --> 01:19:24,240
Speaker 1: they don't have money to really buy the best equipments

1240
01:19:24,240 --> 01:19:27,720
Speaker 1: to they buy cheaper mixtup the stuff too, and the

1241
01:19:27,880 --> 01:19:31,400
Speaker 1: recording in their bedroom, and and the quality is just

1242
01:19:33,720 --> 01:19:37,120
Speaker 1: it's not good. And and I don't use plugins, so

1243
01:19:37,600 --> 01:19:41,760
Speaker 1: it's I and I don't use much eque or compression

1244
01:19:41,880 --> 01:19:46,200
Speaker 1: on on anything I do. Um, And so I find

1245
01:19:46,280 --> 01:19:50,200
Speaker 1: when I get something that I have to mix that

1246
01:19:50,400 --> 01:19:54,120
Speaker 1: was recorded in somebody's bedroom or something, I am using

1247
01:19:54,360 --> 01:19:57,920
Speaker 1: every thing that I don't use to try to make

1248
01:19:58,000 --> 01:20:04,080
Speaker 1: it put it in a place where it's acceptable at least. Okay,

1249
01:20:05,280 --> 01:20:08,479
Speaker 1: But a lot of companies can't pay for those big

1250
01:20:08,600 --> 01:20:12,800
Speaker 1: rooms anymore. True, So how does that affect your sessions?

1251
01:20:13,160 --> 01:20:15,439
Speaker 1: And it affects quite a bit because I don't get

1252
01:20:15,560 --> 01:20:18,760
Speaker 1: we don't get as much work, you know. And if

1253
01:20:18,840 --> 01:20:25,160
Speaker 1: you can get somebody to to do fixes and ovadubs

1254
01:20:25,240 --> 01:20:29,280
Speaker 1: in their bedroom, um, especially if it's just a guitar part,

1255
01:20:29,880 --> 01:20:32,360
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff, Yeah, you save a lot of

1256
01:20:32,400 --> 01:20:37,040
Speaker 1: money because we're not selling records. You know, the seventies

1257
01:20:37,080 --> 01:20:39,439
Speaker 1: and eighties, My god, forget it. You know that this

1258
01:20:39,640 --> 01:20:43,800
Speaker 1: was a will that ever happen again? I doubt it? No, Okay,

1259
01:20:43,840 --> 01:20:46,960
Speaker 1: But staying in that era and the changes, let's talk

1260
01:20:46,960 --> 01:20:52,559
Speaker 1: about the reproduction. Obviously cassettes were inferior for no other reason.

1261
01:20:52,600 --> 01:20:55,559
Speaker 1: There was a high speed reproduction. But what is your

1262
01:20:55,680 --> 01:21:02,479
Speaker 1: view vinyl versus c d S versus streaming in terms

1263
01:21:02,520 --> 01:21:05,920
Speaker 1: of the reproduction end on the reprint. I only listened

1264
01:21:05,920 --> 01:21:09,720
Speaker 1: to Vinyl at home, and that's really yeah, that's it.

1265
01:21:10,160 --> 01:21:14,080
Speaker 1: I have a great audio technical turntable pick up, great speak.

1266
01:21:14,080 --> 01:21:16,280
Speaker 1: I have a really nice system and and I like,

1267
01:21:16,520 --> 01:21:18,360
Speaker 1: let's stop there. What what is your system? You have

1268
01:21:18,400 --> 01:21:23,320
Speaker 1: the audio technical it's an audio technical pick up. My

1269
01:21:23,400 --> 01:21:28,400
Speaker 1: speakers are the tannoy uh self powered speakers. I'm not

1270
01:21:28,479 --> 01:21:32,840
Speaker 1: sure the model number. I've had him about ten years yet,

1271
01:21:33,000 --> 01:21:37,280
Speaker 1: for like five eight thousand bucks or something ten years ago.

1272
01:21:38,080 --> 01:21:43,360
Speaker 1: And then I have um sony uh power. I am okay,

1273
01:21:43,680 --> 01:21:48,240
Speaker 1: So what do you use to mix when I mix

1274
01:21:48,360 --> 01:21:52,400
Speaker 1: it in the studio? Tannois have a specific sound, so

1275
01:21:52,520 --> 01:21:54,960
Speaker 1: I was wondering if you use in the studio. I

1276
01:21:55,080 --> 01:21:59,880
Speaker 1: used Tannoise. Yeah, and I what I use uh dog sacks,

1277
01:22:00,320 --> 01:22:06,000
Speaker 1: Roma ducks right. He He came up with the speakers

1278
01:22:06,400 --> 01:22:10,920
Speaker 1: and it's a Tannoy ten inch driver. And then with

1279
01:22:12,040 --> 01:22:17,639
Speaker 1: Mastering Lab cabinets and crossovers, and I've been using those

1280
01:22:17,680 --> 01:22:20,639
Speaker 1: for the last fifteen years. Wait, wait to the crossovers.

1281
01:22:20,760 --> 01:22:26,160
Speaker 1: What's the tweeter. It's it's all Mastering Lab. Yeah. Okay,

1282
01:22:26,520 --> 01:22:29,479
Speaker 1: So and you bring them yourself when you're mixing. Yeah,

1283
01:22:29,640 --> 01:22:32,000
Speaker 1: any other gear you bring it back. Bring a lot

1284
01:22:32,040 --> 01:22:35,519
Speaker 1: of gear. I bring all my preamps. I have about

1285
01:22:35,880 --> 01:22:42,320
Speaker 1: twenty of those, um um A couple of compressors that

1286
01:22:42,479 --> 01:22:47,720
Speaker 1: I have. Uh well, I use it the two tech

1287
01:22:47,880 --> 01:22:51,439
Speaker 1: three band and I just used it on the output

1288
01:22:52,080 --> 01:22:55,400
Speaker 1: of the bus, but I just tap it. I use

1289
01:22:55,479 --> 01:23:00,160
Speaker 1: it mainly to get that tube sound from the eck.

1290
01:23:01,320 --> 01:23:06,519
Speaker 1: And what about digital reverb? Yeah, well, um, I'm lucky

1291
01:23:06,600 --> 01:23:08,320
Speaker 1: that I work at Capital all the time. We have

1292
01:23:08,439 --> 01:23:12,840
Speaker 1: the great live chambers. But I have a percasty. I

1293
01:23:12,920 --> 01:23:18,599
Speaker 1: have a six thousand digital reverb. I have a two eighty. Um,

1294
01:23:19,560 --> 01:23:23,320
Speaker 1: so when I set up reverbs, we set up eight

1295
01:23:23,360 --> 01:23:26,439
Speaker 1: to ten different reverbs. I try. I don't try to

1296
01:23:26,560 --> 01:23:31,360
Speaker 1: put more than one thing in any reverb. Once in

1297
01:23:31,439 --> 01:23:33,839
Speaker 1: a while it might be two in one, but usually

1298
01:23:34,560 --> 01:23:38,559
Speaker 1: you know, if I if I have the vocal on something,

1299
01:23:39,720 --> 01:23:42,360
Speaker 1: a reverb on the vocal, nothing else will go in

1300
01:23:42,479 --> 01:23:49,000
Speaker 1: that reverb. Now, over time, sounds have changed in terms

1301
01:23:49,080 --> 01:23:52,280
Speaker 1: of what's in wet dry? Whatever is your sound stayed

1302
01:23:52,320 --> 01:23:54,360
Speaker 1: consistent or to what to grieve? You've been influenced by

1303
01:23:54,400 --> 01:23:59,000
Speaker 1: the marketplace? No, no, I think my sounds say pretty consistent.

1304
01:23:59,560 --> 01:24:02,920
Speaker 1: I've no mean one of those that worry about Um,

1305
01:24:03,800 --> 01:24:06,559
Speaker 1: it's certainly now. And you know, when I make a record,

1306
01:24:06,600 --> 01:24:08,280
Speaker 1: I want to make it. Hopefully it's going to be

1307
01:24:08,360 --> 01:24:12,040
Speaker 1: ahead and uh, and somebody's gonna enjoy the benefits of that.

1308
01:24:12,840 --> 01:24:16,400
Speaker 1: But I don't. I don't go on my way to

1309
01:24:17,080 --> 01:24:22,160
Speaker 1: to try to make something it's something it's not. I'm

1310
01:24:22,200 --> 01:24:24,120
Speaker 1: not sure if I said that, you know you did?

1311
01:24:24,200 --> 01:24:26,840
Speaker 1: You did. Let's go back to the vinyl. Okay. Vinyl

1312
01:24:27,000 --> 01:24:32,280
Speaker 1: is an inherently limited medium. Okay, Now, I understand completely

1313
01:24:32,439 --> 01:24:35,559
Speaker 1: if the it was recorded on tape and the whole

1314
01:24:35,640 --> 01:24:39,919
Speaker 1: chain is the analog, But what if it's recorded digitally.

1315
01:24:40,640 --> 01:24:44,560
Speaker 1: Does it make any sense to listen on vinyl? I

1316
01:24:44,600 --> 01:24:49,120
Speaker 1: don't know if that would enhance it in any way. Uh,

1317
01:24:49,840 --> 01:24:51,920
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, And that's something I should

1318
01:24:52,000 --> 01:24:55,800
Speaker 1: check out when I get home. I'll check that out

1319
01:24:55,840 --> 01:24:59,600
Speaker 1: if I can see what difference there is. Well, I

1320
01:24:59,640 --> 01:25:01,479
Speaker 1: mean of the records you're listening to at home or

1321
01:25:01,560 --> 01:25:03,360
Speaker 1: most of them recorded on tape, or you have something

1322
01:25:03,479 --> 01:25:06,479
Speaker 1: recorded digitally, oh, something that we recorded because you know,

1323
01:25:06,520 --> 01:25:08,439
Speaker 1: I've heard different things because they say, well, if you

1324
01:25:08,479 --> 01:25:11,240
Speaker 1: take one ninety two, which you don't get in you

1325
01:25:11,320 --> 01:25:14,200
Speaker 1: know on most other services, and you know, I know

1326
01:25:14,640 --> 01:25:17,920
Speaker 1: it's it's an I've always felt that. Yes, in the

1327
01:25:18,040 --> 01:25:20,400
Speaker 1: early days, with the records that are cut analyze, they're

1328
01:25:20,439 --> 01:25:26,720
Speaker 1: much better on vinyl. But the digital ones, I'm not sure. Okay. Uh,

1329
01:25:27,560 --> 01:25:32,559
Speaker 1: let's go back to um acts. You worked with Toto,

1330
01:25:32,600 --> 01:25:35,000
Speaker 1: Steve Lucas. There's a good friend of mine, and he

1331
01:25:35,120 --> 01:25:38,439
Speaker 1: said he was the hot session guy. Okay, and then

1332
01:25:38,640 --> 01:25:40,920
Speaker 1: someone I don't remember said it said, listen, you have

1333
01:25:41,080 --> 01:25:44,280
Speaker 1: a window and then you're done. No matter how good

1334
01:25:44,360 --> 01:25:47,719
Speaker 1: you are, you better find something else. Have you found

1335
01:25:47,760 --> 01:25:51,639
Speaker 1: that to be true? Um? Yeah, I think there are times,

1336
01:25:52,280 --> 01:25:55,000
Speaker 1: you know, and with me, since I've been doing this

1337
01:25:55,160 --> 01:25:57,639
Speaker 1: for so long, I've been up and down that stage

1338
01:25:57,680 --> 01:26:00,320
Speaker 1: a couple of times. Well I've been hot and you

1339
01:26:00,400 --> 01:26:03,519
Speaker 1: know I can't you know, the phone is bringing off

1340
01:26:03,600 --> 01:26:07,040
Speaker 1: the hook. And then other times when I'm scuffling around

1341
01:26:07,080 --> 01:26:10,679
Speaker 1: looking for something to do, and then something comes along

1342
01:26:11,080 --> 01:26:13,479
Speaker 1: and I'm all of a sudden, I'm a flavor of

1343
01:26:13,520 --> 01:26:17,120
Speaker 1: the month again. Um, and I'm jammed. You know. So

1344
01:26:18,400 --> 01:26:22,800
Speaker 1: when it's when it's low, is there enough work or

1345
01:26:22,840 --> 01:26:24,559
Speaker 1: what do you do? What do you think there isn't

1346
01:26:24,640 --> 01:26:27,360
Speaker 1: enough work? When it's slow, and I go, I hang

1347
01:26:27,400 --> 01:26:30,280
Speaker 1: out with other engineers, so it's slow at the same time,

1348
01:26:30,320 --> 01:26:33,200
Speaker 1: we'll go have lunch and do that kind of stuff. Um.

1349
01:26:34,479 --> 01:26:38,320
Speaker 1: You know, I I have my wife and I collect

1350
01:26:38,360 --> 01:26:45,080
Speaker 1: the art so well heavily into that. Um. So when

1351
01:26:45,120 --> 01:26:47,519
Speaker 1: I'm off and we have time, we go We'll go

1352
01:26:47,640 --> 01:26:51,400
Speaker 1: to New York. Uh go to the museums, go to

1353
01:26:51,720 --> 01:26:55,600
Speaker 1: uh galleries, look at different art and so forth, and

1354
01:26:55,880 --> 01:26:58,960
Speaker 1: uh so we buy and sell things. And because you

1355
01:26:59,080 --> 01:27:04,000
Speaker 1: have that as a hobby now people professionals it. You know,

1356
01:27:04,560 --> 01:27:07,320
Speaker 1: at large, a lot of the prices going way down

1357
01:27:07,479 --> 01:27:09,960
Speaker 1: if you had to adjust your prices because of the

1358
01:27:10,080 --> 01:27:14,320
Speaker 1: change of the marketplace. Absolutely, what I get now is

1359
01:27:15,720 --> 01:27:19,840
Speaker 1: somebody will call me and and look how I got

1360
01:27:20,840 --> 01:27:23,320
Speaker 1: this amount of money? It's all I got. I'd love

1361
01:27:23,400 --> 01:27:25,800
Speaker 1: to have you and mix my record, and I'll talk

1362
01:27:25,840 --> 01:27:28,439
Speaker 1: to him about it and what's going on and what

1363
01:27:28,560 --> 01:27:30,640
Speaker 1: do you think you want me to do it? And

1364
01:27:31,920 --> 01:27:35,720
Speaker 1: then okay, I'll say, all right, you know you we

1365
01:27:35,840 --> 01:27:37,560
Speaker 1: got to work out to deal with the studio and

1366
01:27:37,640 --> 01:27:42,080
Speaker 1: then and then I'll get to rest and I work

1367
01:27:42,160 --> 01:27:44,479
Speaker 1: it out that way because there are acts that I

1368
01:27:44,680 --> 01:27:46,800
Speaker 1: really like to work with. I mean, at times I

1369
01:27:46,920 --> 01:27:50,599
Speaker 1: do stuff for nothing and because I like the artist,

1370
01:27:50,960 --> 01:27:54,000
Speaker 1: I've got nothing to do if I can help somebody.

1371
01:27:54,800 --> 01:27:57,560
Speaker 1: You know, there's a new saying out now that kindness

1372
01:27:58,240 --> 01:28:01,960
Speaker 1: is the new hip. Wow, I haven't heard that. Yeah,

1373
01:28:02,760 --> 01:28:07,560
Speaker 1: And it is the kind of it changes everything that

1374
01:28:07,760 --> 01:28:11,800
Speaker 1: around you when you're kind two people, and and I

1375
01:28:11,920 --> 01:28:14,559
Speaker 1: see it all the time in the studio. Okay, let's

1376
01:28:14,600 --> 01:28:18,000
Speaker 1: just assume are most of your gigs now both recording

1377
01:28:18,080 --> 01:28:23,080
Speaker 1: and mixing, or you have some separate mixing gigs or what. Yeah,

1378
01:28:23,120 --> 01:28:26,400
Speaker 1: I have a few separate mixing gigs. I just mixed

1379
01:28:26,439 --> 01:28:31,160
Speaker 1: the record uh a little while ago for New York

1380
01:28:31,280 --> 01:28:34,800
Speaker 1: artists at UH, I started recording a two years ago

1381
01:28:35,520 --> 01:28:39,760
Speaker 1: at Cherney and I, Yeah, I'm the best, and we

1382
01:28:39,880 --> 01:28:43,519
Speaker 1: brought her in the studio in New York and started

1383
01:28:43,760 --> 01:28:48,599
Speaker 1: uh recording a few things. But this group I belong

1384
01:28:48,680 --> 01:28:52,800
Speaker 1: to the Meta Alliance anyway, a little bit slower, you

1385
01:28:52,960 --> 01:28:56,519
Speaker 1: and Ed would have worked at the same time. We

1386
01:28:56,800 --> 01:29:00,879
Speaker 1: we we were, Yeah, because we teach the Metal Alliance

1387
01:29:01,000 --> 01:29:04,120
Speaker 1: teaches um we're do it a couple of times a

1388
01:29:04,200 --> 01:29:07,240
Speaker 1: year at a different studio. And so whenever we do

1389
01:29:07,920 --> 01:29:10,880
Speaker 1: Ed and I worked together and we bring in an act,

1390
01:29:11,040 --> 01:29:17,040
Speaker 1: whether it's uh Tuny Sutton to you know whoever, uh,

1391
01:29:17,160 --> 01:29:20,519
Speaker 1: and we we uh, we we could do it together.

1392
01:29:21,200 --> 01:29:25,479
Speaker 1: So okay, just little bit, what's the Metal Alliance? The

1393
01:29:25,560 --> 01:29:32,040
Speaker 1: Metal Alliance is Uh. It was Phaeromone Me, Ed Cherney,

1394
01:29:32,280 --> 01:29:39,479
Speaker 1: Elliott China, Um, George Massenburg, Chuck Ainley, Frank Philippetti, and uh,

1395
01:29:40,680 --> 01:29:43,799
Speaker 1: unfortunately two of them are gone now, so we're getting

1396
01:29:44,360 --> 01:29:46,920
Speaker 1: going to have to get some replacements. Okay, how did

1397
01:29:47,000 --> 01:29:51,080
Speaker 1: it end up happening? It ended up happening Like we

1398
01:29:51,280 --> 01:29:53,920
Speaker 1: got together and talked about, you know, we're getting there's

1399
01:29:53,960 --> 01:29:56,360
Speaker 1: so much new equipment coming out all the time, and

1400
01:29:56,439 --> 01:30:00,679
Speaker 1: we wanted to do something like the good Housekeeping Seal

1401
01:30:00,760 --> 01:30:04,519
Speaker 1: of approval. So we made it fact that we would

1402
01:30:05,840 --> 01:30:09,479
Speaker 1: go over a gear and we would all listen, and

1403
01:30:10,400 --> 01:30:15,280
Speaker 1: if we unanimously liked it, we would recommend it. If

1404
01:30:15,320 --> 01:30:18,639
Speaker 1: one person didn't like it, it it didn't get recommended. Okay,

1405
01:30:18,800 --> 01:30:21,360
Speaker 1: And that's what we were trying to do. How much

1406
01:30:21,439 --> 01:30:28,800
Speaker 1: gear would you we value? Microphones, preamps, all contact things? Okay,

1407
01:30:28,880 --> 01:30:31,280
Speaker 1: So you were telling the story, you were working with

1408
01:30:31,400 --> 01:30:34,360
Speaker 1: an act and recording it with ed two years ago,

1409
01:30:35,120 --> 01:30:38,479
Speaker 1: and now what's happening now? Oh? Well, she two years

1410
01:30:38,520 --> 01:30:42,120
Speaker 1: ago and and she started going around the country doing

1411
01:30:42,200 --> 01:30:45,160
Speaker 1: gigs and all, and she would record in different places,

1412
01:30:45,640 --> 01:30:48,439
Speaker 1: go back to New York and record, and so she

1413
01:30:48,600 --> 01:30:51,639
Speaker 1: finally got the whole thing finished and I just finished

1414
01:30:51,720 --> 01:30:55,280
Speaker 1: mixing it for her and it just came out two

1415
01:30:55,320 --> 01:30:58,559
Speaker 1: weeks ago. Okay, if you're if you're tracking a capital.

1416
01:30:58,600 --> 01:31:01,439
Speaker 1: Where do you tend to mix? I like to mix

1417
01:31:01,479 --> 01:31:05,400
Speaker 1: it capital, Yeah, I like to mix. I like I

1418
01:31:05,520 --> 01:31:07,880
Speaker 1: like to mix in studio a believe it or not,

1419
01:31:08,040 --> 01:31:11,479
Speaker 1: which is to pick room. But see it's a room

1420
01:31:11,560 --> 01:31:14,800
Speaker 1: that I do most of my mixing and it's a

1421
01:31:14,880 --> 01:31:19,080
Speaker 1: little cheaper. And if they have people in the studio

1422
01:31:19,160 --> 01:31:22,519
Speaker 1: and a, I can't mix it right. So and is

1423
01:31:22,560 --> 01:31:27,280
Speaker 1: the okay? How hard is it to get time these days? Uh?

1424
01:31:28,560 --> 01:31:33,519
Speaker 1: It varies. Sometimes you trying to squeeze things in other

1425
01:31:33,640 --> 01:31:36,080
Speaker 1: times there's plenty of time. I was leaving up to

1426
01:31:36,160 --> 01:31:44,439
Speaker 1: Paula Salvador. She you know, she knows my schedule. Yeah,

1427
01:31:44,520 --> 01:31:50,120
Speaker 1: we're figured it out. So, Um, what is your special sauce?

1428
01:31:50,920 --> 01:31:52,920
Speaker 1: What makes what is it that you do to the

1429
01:31:53,280 --> 01:31:56,840
Speaker 1: you want to reveal that makes your makes you head

1430
01:31:56,920 --> 01:32:01,240
Speaker 1: in shoulders above the average person? Well, I don't know how.

1431
01:32:01,400 --> 01:32:03,360
Speaker 1: You know, that's a tough question for me to answer.

1432
01:32:03,760 --> 01:32:08,479
Speaker 1: Somebody else who should answer that. Um, But the fact

1433
01:32:08,560 --> 01:32:11,719
Speaker 1: that I love what I do so much. My father worked,

1434
01:32:12,000 --> 01:32:14,080
Speaker 1: He never took a day off in his life, and

1435
01:32:14,200 --> 01:32:18,880
Speaker 1: he worked hard all his life, and and and he

1436
01:32:19,000 --> 01:32:21,519
Speaker 1: did the best he could. And that's what I want

1437
01:32:21,520 --> 01:32:23,120
Speaker 1: to do. Every day I go and I want to

1438
01:32:23,200 --> 01:32:26,960
Speaker 1: do the best I can possibly do for the artist,

1439
01:32:27,960 --> 01:32:32,000
Speaker 1: make that artist happy. Hopefully you make a hit with him,

1440
01:32:32,439 --> 01:32:36,760
Speaker 1: but if not, a great record and that's equally as

1441
01:32:36,840 --> 01:32:39,720
Speaker 1: important sometimes. And there are a lot of albums out

1442
01:32:39,760 --> 01:32:42,679
Speaker 1: there that people have never heard of. You know, Willis

1443
01:32:42,760 --> 01:32:49,040
Speaker 1: Allen Alan, I can't believe you cut that well? So

1444
01:32:49,240 --> 01:32:52,240
Speaker 1: many like that, you know that. I just and that

1445
01:32:52,520 --> 01:32:56,000
Speaker 1: that are great records that people don't know about. So

1446
01:32:56,280 --> 01:33:01,200
Speaker 1: we're your parents proud of your work? I yeah, my

1447
01:33:01,360 --> 01:33:06,080
Speaker 1: mom was, for sure. My father was tough when it

1448
01:33:06,200 --> 01:33:09,800
Speaker 1: comes to that. And I often say, now I wish

1449
01:33:09,840 --> 01:33:12,880
Speaker 1: my dad could see me now, you know, it would

1450
01:33:12,920 --> 01:33:17,240
Speaker 1: be maybe a whole different thing. Um. I think my

1451
01:33:17,479 --> 01:33:25,599
Speaker 1: dad felt that because his brother helped me so much, uh,

1452
01:33:25,920 --> 01:33:30,360
Speaker 1: that it made it easier for me to yeah, something

1453
01:33:30,560 --> 01:33:33,840
Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, you know, dads are tough. And how

1454
01:33:34,040 --> 01:33:37,760
Speaker 1: long when did he pass away? He passed away? Oh

1455
01:33:37,840 --> 01:33:44,080
Speaker 1: my god, he was seventy eight years so about five

1456
01:33:44,160 --> 01:33:47,680
Speaker 1: years ago. Okay, So he saw a lot of your success. Yeah. Yeah,

1457
01:33:47,720 --> 01:33:50,320
Speaker 1: and I when I was a producer at r c A, Yeah,

1458
01:33:50,360 --> 01:33:52,240
Speaker 1: I would take him to more Tony's. He and my

1459
01:33:52,400 --> 01:33:55,600
Speaker 1: mom and uh, you know, they have dinner with the

1460
01:33:55,760 --> 01:33:59,160
Speaker 1: artists and stuff. Yeah that and he never he never

1461
01:33:59,280 --> 01:34:03,560
Speaker 1: really know, And I would always and I know, you know,

1462
01:34:03,640 --> 01:34:06,080
Speaker 1: they were living on retirement, so I always slip my

1463
01:34:06,160 --> 01:34:09,360
Speaker 1: mother a hundred dollar bill, you know. And when when

1464
01:34:09,439 --> 01:34:13,479
Speaker 1: my father passed away and and my uh my sister

1465
01:34:13,640 --> 01:34:18,240
Speaker 1: went over to help out, she opened the refrigerator door,

1466
01:34:19,080 --> 01:34:22,360
Speaker 1: the draw on the bottom and it was food A

1467
01:34:22,439 --> 01:34:24,840
Speaker 1: hundred dollar bills that I had given my mother. She

1468
01:34:25,040 --> 01:34:30,880
Speaker 1: just took him into home. Wow. So you know, this

1469
01:34:31,040 --> 01:34:33,559
Speaker 1: is a business where a lot of people can't work anymore.

1470
01:34:33,920 --> 01:34:36,800
Speaker 1: In the last twenty years, you were I mean trying

1471
01:34:36,880 --> 01:34:39,360
Speaker 1: just trying to schedule, say you're tracking and then you're mixing.

1472
01:34:40,000 --> 01:34:41,760
Speaker 1: You know, what is the secret to your ability to

1473
01:34:41,840 --> 01:34:44,840
Speaker 1: continue to work? I think the fact that I love

1474
01:34:44,880 --> 01:34:46,720
Speaker 1: it so much and I enjoy it so much. And

1475
01:34:47,080 --> 01:34:48,760
Speaker 1: you know, when I'm going I never think I'm making

1476
01:34:48,800 --> 01:34:51,639
Speaker 1: a living doing this. I think I'm I'm doing something

1477
01:34:51,720 --> 01:34:54,160
Speaker 1: people are going to enjoy this. It brings a lot

1478
01:34:54,200 --> 01:34:58,840
Speaker 1: of happiness music to people. Um, yeah, you know, I

1479
01:35:00,560 --> 01:35:03,960
Speaker 1: I don't know I did. Certain artists are tough, and

1480
01:35:04,080 --> 01:35:05,960
Speaker 1: you know, when you're going in and it's not going

1481
01:35:06,000 --> 01:35:08,800
Speaker 1: to be a walk in the park, but other artists are,

1482
01:35:10,080 --> 01:35:11,640
Speaker 1: you know, just so much fun to be in a

1483
01:35:11,760 --> 01:35:16,800
Speaker 1: studio with um Dylan was. It was a ball. That's

1484
01:35:16,840 --> 01:35:21,840
Speaker 1: not his reputation. He was great because he was doing

1485
01:35:21,920 --> 01:35:25,559
Speaker 1: stuff that he was doing, all these old chestnuts. Well

1486
01:35:25,640 --> 01:35:29,479
Speaker 1: this is all recent stuff. Yes, yes, fifty two songs.

1487
01:35:31,760 --> 01:35:34,639
Speaker 1: Well that's the last one I too before that? Right, Okay,

1488
01:35:34,920 --> 01:35:37,280
Speaker 1: when was the first time you worked with Dylan? First

1489
01:35:37,320 --> 01:35:40,479
Speaker 1: time I worked with him with Strangers in the Night

1490
01:35:40,680 --> 01:35:45,160
Speaker 1: or Shadows in the Night, it's called Yeah. They called

1491
01:35:45,240 --> 01:35:49,400
Speaker 1: me the manager and they had this time and I

1492
01:35:49,479 --> 01:35:52,760
Speaker 1: couldn't do it. I said, oh, well that's too Bob

1493
01:35:52,920 --> 01:35:55,519
Speaker 1: under work with that. I said, I'm sorry, I'm I'm booked,

1494
01:35:55,920 --> 01:35:58,000
Speaker 1: so I don't have the phone. I said to my wife, Damn,

1495
01:35:58,439 --> 01:36:00,320
Speaker 1: I really would have liked to have done that with

1496
01:36:01,240 --> 01:36:05,120
Speaker 1: Next morning, they called me, Bob wants you. When are

1497
01:36:05,160 --> 01:36:08,240
Speaker 1: you available? So they worked around me, which I thought

1498
01:36:08,400 --> 01:36:12,040
Speaker 1: was great. And now I've done fifty two songs with him,

1499
01:36:12,280 --> 01:36:15,640
Speaker 1: actually fifty three. And how old long does it take

1500
01:36:15,680 --> 01:36:18,840
Speaker 1: to cut a Dylan drack? We we were doing one

1501
01:36:18,920 --> 01:36:23,200
Speaker 1: song every three hours, and what would happen? Would the

1502
01:36:23,280 --> 01:36:26,599
Speaker 1: first couple of hours, it would be Dylan going over

1503
01:36:26,760 --> 01:36:30,439
Speaker 1: the song, get the meaning of the song and and

1504
01:36:30,600 --> 01:36:32,960
Speaker 1: listen to the way Frank did it or whatever, and

1505
01:36:33,479 --> 01:36:38,200
Speaker 1: and try to get you know, his special interpretation. And

1506
01:36:38,280 --> 01:36:41,280
Speaker 1: then we would go in and cut the track and

1507
01:36:41,560 --> 01:36:43,760
Speaker 1: two or three takes and we'd had it. So we

1508
01:36:43,880 --> 01:36:48,000
Speaker 1: would go from three to six, and then we take

1509
01:36:48,040 --> 01:36:50,320
Speaker 1: a two hour break for dinner, and then we go

1510
01:36:50,439 --> 01:36:53,760
Speaker 1: to eight to maybe eleven and get another song. So

1511
01:36:53,880 --> 01:36:56,040
Speaker 1: we were getting to a day. Where were you coming

1512
01:36:56,160 --> 01:37:01,280
Speaker 1: this at the capitol and studio? And then uh, any

1513
01:37:01,400 --> 01:37:04,800
Speaker 1: special tricks he used on his vocals to enhance those, Yeah,

1514
01:37:05,040 --> 01:37:08,760
Speaker 1: we did. We We used a great mike on his vocals. Um. Uh,

1515
01:37:09,360 --> 01:37:14,360
Speaker 1: the Frank Sinatra mike that it's just amazing mike. And

1516
01:37:14,439 --> 01:37:18,879
Speaker 1: then I put another mike um in an omni position,

1517
01:37:19,680 --> 01:37:25,760
Speaker 1: uh two ft maybe away from the first mike and

1518
01:37:26,000 --> 01:37:28,960
Speaker 1: to capture some of the ambiance in the room and

1519
01:37:29,080 --> 01:37:33,560
Speaker 1: so forth. And he when he heard the first playback,

1520
01:37:33,640 --> 01:37:37,640
Speaker 1: he said, al my voice hasn't sounded this good in

1521
01:37:37,720 --> 01:37:43,680
Speaker 1: forty years. Yeah. And does he talk to you? Yes?

1522
01:37:43,800 --> 01:37:47,400
Speaker 1: He does not talking to be No, No, he does.

1523
01:37:47,960 --> 01:37:51,680
Speaker 1: I tuned one thing and uh and as I went by,

1524
01:37:51,800 --> 01:37:54,080
Speaker 1: he heard it and he looked at me and said,

1525
01:37:54,120 --> 01:37:56,360
Speaker 1: what's that? I said, well, you were a little under

1526
01:37:56,439 --> 01:38:00,960
Speaker 1: we know. He made me put it back. Okay, And

1527
01:38:01,160 --> 01:38:04,160
Speaker 1: what about you know, staying on that, you know, starting

1528
01:38:04,200 --> 01:38:07,720
Speaker 1: in the seventies whatever, the era of comped vocals. What

1529
01:38:07,840 --> 01:38:14,640
Speaker 1: do you think of that? Well? Yeah, the reason I

1530
01:38:16,080 --> 01:38:18,840
Speaker 1: I mean, it works obviously, it works, you know with

1531
01:38:19,080 --> 01:38:22,639
Speaker 1: with with Barbara, there's a lot of comping of vocals,

1532
01:38:23,000 --> 01:38:28,760
Speaker 1: even comping of breath really yeah, right, yeah, she'll say,

1533
01:38:28,880 --> 01:38:34,120
Speaker 1: you know, I love that breath two verses back? Can

1534
01:38:34,200 --> 01:38:39,479
Speaker 1: we put that here? So? Yeah, And but do you

1535
01:38:39,600 --> 01:38:41,760
Speaker 1: do you think you mean, forget not making it specifically

1536
01:38:41,800 --> 01:38:44,000
Speaker 1: about Barbara, does it eliminate a little bit of the

1537
01:38:44,120 --> 01:38:47,519
Speaker 1: soul and the field when you comp all that stuff? Well?

1538
01:38:48,320 --> 01:38:50,760
Speaker 1: I think so, yeah, I do. I do think a

1539
01:38:50,880 --> 01:38:55,000
Speaker 1: little bit when you hear you know, change is gonna come.

1540
01:38:55,360 --> 01:38:58,760
Speaker 1: Sam Cooke's sitting on the dock of debate, those kinds

1541
01:38:58,760 --> 01:39:02,720
Speaker 1: of things, those are not compvocal, those are you know.

1542
01:39:04,439 --> 01:39:07,479
Speaker 1: And even with Barbara there's I mean there's some she

1543
01:39:07,680 --> 01:39:10,919
Speaker 1: came in one day we were working U David Forssibly

1544
01:39:11,040 --> 01:39:14,200
Speaker 1: doing back the Broadway and and she was not failing.

1545
01:39:14,240 --> 01:39:19,519
Speaker 1: Well she first time down, second time down, she just

1546
01:39:20,080 --> 01:39:25,519
Speaker 1: killed it. Really. It was like, you know, but they

1547
01:39:26,479 --> 01:39:29,920
Speaker 1: people like Barbara just they varized to the occasion. I mean,

1548
01:39:30,040 --> 01:39:34,320
Speaker 1: she is so meticulous about things, you know, it's it's

1549
01:39:34,400 --> 01:39:37,120
Speaker 1: never going to get out if she doesn't like it.

1550
01:39:38,000 --> 01:39:41,800
Speaker 1: So anybody you haven't worked with who's still alive that

1551
01:39:41,800 --> 01:39:43,800
Speaker 1: you would like to work with, Yeah, you know, that

1552
01:39:43,960 --> 01:39:46,439
Speaker 1: comes up a lot. Uh, Yeah, I'd love to do

1553
01:39:46,560 --> 01:39:50,400
Speaker 1: a record with Sally came up. I was talking to

1554
01:39:51,000 --> 01:39:53,960
Speaker 1: Desmond Child the other day and he was talking about

1555
01:39:53,960 --> 01:39:55,880
Speaker 1: what a perfect career she has because she's unique. But

1556
01:39:55,920 --> 01:39:57,960
Speaker 1: she only makes a record like every eight years. I know,

1557
01:39:58,240 --> 01:40:00,280
Speaker 1: I know, and I got I put it out there

1558
01:40:00,360 --> 01:40:03,559
Speaker 1: a few times. You know, if she's available and wants

1559
01:40:04,080 --> 01:40:07,240
Speaker 1: wants me, I'm available, And who does she use? I

1560
01:40:07,320 --> 01:40:11,280
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know. Okay, anybody else that's the

1561
01:40:11,360 --> 01:40:15,040
Speaker 1: top of the list. You know, I've hit everybody. I

1562
01:40:15,120 --> 01:40:20,559
Speaker 1: don't know who's out there that I that you know? Right, Okay,

1563
01:40:21,200 --> 01:40:24,240
Speaker 1: this has been fantastic. I think we covered Thanks so

1564
01:40:24,360 --> 01:40:27,040
Speaker 1: much for coming on the podcast. You're kidding? Is that

1565
01:40:27,160 --> 01:40:31,760
Speaker 1: hit with time? Yes? Well, unless there's something specific that

1566
01:40:31,960 --> 01:40:35,360
Speaker 1: we have no no, no, Okay, you've been wonderful till

1567
01:40:35,400 --> 01:40:36,720
Speaker 1: next time. This is Bob left,