WEBVTT - How the Berlin Wall Worked 0:00:01.000 --> 0:00:04.160 Welcome to you Stuff you Should Know from House Stuff 0:00:04.160 --> 0:00:12.680 Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:17.599 Josh Clark, There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, there's Jerry and 0:00:17.800 --> 0:00:21.160 this Stuff you Should Know the podcast Tear Down the Wall. 0:00:22.160 --> 0:00:25.239 Tear down the Wall? Can you say in German? No, 0:00:25.600 --> 0:00:31.920 it would be more authentic. Yeah, tear down the wall. Yeah, 0:00:31.960 --> 0:00:35.159 I think that's it. Yeah, that's right. I should know 0:00:35.200 --> 0:00:39.240 what that is in German. It's tear down the wall. Yeah. 0:00:39.360 --> 0:00:41.880 I remember this stuff man. That was you do too, 0:00:41.960 --> 0:00:44.159 to a certain degree. Oh yeah. We both grew up 0:00:44.159 --> 0:00:46.839 in the shadow of the Berlin Wall, but several thousand 0:00:46.880 --> 0:00:51.440 miles west. It's crazy though to think about it now. Um, 0:00:51.479 --> 0:00:54.600 if you're of a certain age, the concept of walling 0:00:54.640 --> 0:01:00.440 in the city seems probably really strange and unlikely. Yeah, 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:03.160 you know, if you're like under thirty, probably like what 0:01:03.440 --> 0:01:04.920 one of the things that then this is a grab 0:01:04.959 --> 0:01:09.080 star article, so it has the stank of quality on it. Um. 0:01:09.520 --> 0:01:13.080 That I learned from this article was that there were 0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:15.240 a lot of people in power at the time who 0:01:15.280 --> 0:01:17.800 were very relieved when the Berlin Wall went up. Yeah, 0:01:17.920 --> 0:01:21.240 quietly relieved because things were coming to a head between 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:25.360 two nuclear superpowers in the city of Berlin. Yeah, even 0:01:25.440 --> 0:01:28.160 they couldn't really say it out loud, but even Western 0:01:28.240 --> 0:01:30.560 leaders were like, all right, well, this maybe not the 0:01:30.600 --> 0:01:34.560 worst thing for now. Ah yeah, exactly, give me a 0:01:34.600 --> 0:01:39.360 scotch because world leaders drink scotch? Should they do? Yeah? 0:01:39.400 --> 0:01:43.520 And they were dark socks. What's up with that? I 0:01:43.560 --> 0:01:46.039 don't know. It's so you want to get down to 0:01:46.160 --> 0:01:52.080 business here about the Berlin Wall. Um, there's a there 0:01:52.200 --> 0:01:56.440 was long a discrepancy over how many people were killed 0:01:56.960 --> 0:02:01.080 at the Berlin Wall. Yeah, trying to uh defend or escape, 0:02:01.160 --> 0:02:03.880 depending on which way you want to look at it. Yeah. Um. 0:02:03.960 --> 0:02:07.559 And the exact number stands right now at one thirty six. 0:02:07.600 --> 0:02:11.919 That so many have been confirmed, plenty have been um denied. 0:02:12.040 --> 0:02:16.040 I guess, um there were some something Some people said 0:02:16.080 --> 0:02:19.480 like as many as three hundred were killed. Some people 0:02:19.520 --> 0:02:22.000 said as low as ninety eight. But definitely one thirty 0:02:22.080 --> 0:02:24.959 six people were killed at the Berlin Wall, either trying 0:02:25.000 --> 0:02:29.520 to escape or that included border guards who were killed 0:02:29.560 --> 0:02:32.960 by people who were escaping, And it also sadly included 0:02:33.000 --> 0:02:35.160 thirty people who were just trying to cross the border 0:02:35.200 --> 0:02:38.239 and weren't trying to escape, but we're killed accidentally. Yeah, 0:02:38.320 --> 0:02:40.920 it doesn't sound like a super high number, and I 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:42.760 guess it's not in the grand scheme of things, but 0:02:42.800 --> 0:02:45.799 it didn't need to be. Like when those first people 0:02:45.880 --> 0:02:47.720 and we'll get to who they were. When those first 0:02:47.720 --> 0:02:50.760 people were killed, it's in a very strong message like 0:02:51.560 --> 0:02:53.920 do so it tried it at your own risk, you know, 0:02:53.960 --> 0:02:56.360 because you might get shot in the back exactly. Um, 0:02:56.400 --> 0:03:00.200 And there were trials. The exact numbers for the people 0:03:00.200 --> 0:03:03.800 who were killed at the at the Berlin Wall came 0:03:03.840 --> 0:03:08.800 out of documents that were used in trials to try 0:03:08.840 --> 0:03:12.600 people who were responsible for basically issuing shoot to kill orders. 0:03:13.360 --> 0:03:16.799 And yeah, it wasn't clear from the get go just 0:03:16.880 --> 0:03:19.360 how poors the border was, even though there was a wall. 0:03:19.400 --> 0:03:21.520 But yeah, when they started shooting people and putting in 0:03:21.600 --> 0:03:25.359 land mines, it became clear like this is a you 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:28.720 you try to cross this border now at the risk 0:03:28.760 --> 0:03:31.679 of your own life. They're not messing around. Apparently a 0:03:32.040 --> 0:03:36.440 pregnant woman was shot and killed trying to defect. So yes, 0:03:36.520 --> 0:03:39.000 we'll talk about them, but there's plenty of this wall, 0:03:39.400 --> 0:03:43.320 the Berlin Wall that I didn't understand. Um. And I 0:03:43.360 --> 0:03:46.160 guess I didn't really understand the context. And again, the 0:03:46.160 --> 0:03:48.320 graphs are did a really good job of like getting 0:03:48.320 --> 0:03:50.240 down to the nitty gritty of like where the whole 0:03:50.280 --> 0:03:52.839 thing started, and it finds its roots back in World 0:03:52.880 --> 0:03:55.760 War two, at the end of World War two, specifically 0:03:56.160 --> 0:04:01.880 after Germany surrendered on May seven? Are we getting in 0:04:01.880 --> 0:04:04.600 the way back machine? Oh? You want to? Yeah, we 0:04:04.680 --> 0:04:06.640 gotta blow the dust off of this thing. This is 0:04:06.640 --> 0:04:09.040 a dangerous time we're going back to. Just before one. 0:04:09.160 --> 0:04:11.640 You have to go prime the the engine as well. 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:15.080 Pumped that little bubble because it's been a while. Start 0:04:15.120 --> 0:04:27.080 her up. It sounds like it's working all right. So yeah, 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:29.360 it is a little scary where we are and the 0:04:29.440 --> 0:04:32.359 end of World War two very uncertain time. Rememb Berlin. 0:04:32.880 --> 0:04:38.000 That's right, And like you said, Germany has surrendered. Uh, 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:42.560 but things were a little dodgy before that because Russia 0:04:42.720 --> 0:04:46.719 was initially against the Allied forces, which were the United 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:48.800 States and France and Britain. Yeah, they had a treaty 0:04:48.800 --> 0:04:52.120 with Germany. Yeah, but then Germany, like you know, Hitler 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:54.320 was one to do, changed his minds and you know what, 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:57.479 I'm gonna invade you guys too, which is pretty stupid, because, 0:04:57.800 --> 0:05:00.599 as everyone knows, you don't did you don't start a 0:05:00.680 --> 0:05:03.160 land war in Russia. It didn't work out too well 0:05:03.200 --> 0:05:07.640 in the end. But what it did was it flopped Russia. Um, 0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:10.160 not super willingly, but it kind of flopped them over 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:14.080 the Allied side, even though things were so different in 0:05:14.120 --> 0:05:16.159 our two countries. It was a little bit weird that 0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:18.680 they did that, right, we we should their hand. It 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:22.000 was one of those the enemy of my enemy is 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:26.800 my friend kind of thing. Yes, so so so the 0:05:26.800 --> 0:05:30.599 Soviet Union under Joseph Stalin was like, hey, guys, remember 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:32.440 how were just fighting on the same side. Well, my 0:05:32.520 --> 0:05:35.640 teammate just attacked me, so can I come over and 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:38.000 hang out with you dudes for a while? What was 0:05:38.040 --> 0:05:41.400 weird was that this is a total Terryan communist regime 0:05:41.760 --> 0:05:46.120 asking democratic countries to come fight on their side. They 0:05:46.120 --> 0:05:49.080 were probably like, but how about that Hitler guy? Forget 0:05:49.120 --> 0:05:51.440 about us for a minute, Like we should all get 0:05:51.480 --> 0:05:53.520 together and stop him. Says a lot about how much 0:05:53.560 --> 0:05:58.840 everybody hated Hitler. Yeah. Um, but like we said, in 0:05:59.720 --> 0:06:05.239 Germany did surrender and uh, oddly, and it's still strange 0:06:05.279 --> 0:06:09.400 to think about it. They decided um to divide Germany 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:12.719 up into four zones, and then within one of the 0:06:12.720 --> 0:06:15.840 communist zones, the East German Zone, they divided the city 0:06:15.839 --> 0:06:20.360 of Berlin up into four zones. Right, such an odd idea. Well, 0:06:20.400 --> 0:06:22.760 the thing is is the Soviets had a seat at 0:06:22.760 --> 0:06:26.000 the table at the Yalta conference because they were one 0:06:26.000 --> 0:06:28.240 of the victors, was one of the Allied victors at 0:06:28.240 --> 0:06:30.760 the end of the war. And even though the Allies knew, 0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:33.680 like this is really weird having the Soviets there, Who knows, 0:06:33.720 --> 0:06:36.679 maybe you can generate goodwill. We don't know what's gonna happen. 0:06:37.000 --> 0:06:39.320 So they get an even piece of the pie. And 0:06:39.360 --> 0:06:42.240 that's what they did. They divided Germany up into four zones, 0:06:42.720 --> 0:06:46.720 and France, Britain and the US eventually merged their zone 0:06:46.760 --> 0:06:50.160 and that became the Federal Republic of Germany also known 0:06:50.160 --> 0:06:54.520 as West Germany UM. And the Soviets said, we're just 0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:58.600 gonna keep total and complete control over our side of Germany. 0:06:58.839 --> 0:07:02.880 We'll call it the German Democratic Republic UM, and we're 0:07:02.880 --> 0:07:05.159 going to start a puppet stayed in there. I think 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:08.240 the thing that really surprised the Allies though, was that 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:11.720 the Soviets took the chaos at the end of World 0:07:11.720 --> 0:07:15.560 War Two as an opportunity to invade and occupy a 0:07:15.640 --> 0:07:19.840 bunch of other formerly independent countries. That's what really caught 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:24.040 everybody by surprise. Yeah, and that uh they basically formed 0:07:24.080 --> 0:07:25.920 what was to be known as the Iron Curtain, this 0:07:26.120 --> 0:07:31.120 isolation that they UH basically put on all these countries 0:07:31.120 --> 0:07:33.160 that they invaded. They just cut them off from the 0:07:33.160 --> 0:07:35.960 rest of the world. And that was the Eastern Block 0:07:36.120 --> 0:07:40.320 and American everyone else was like, huh, I didn't see 0:07:40.320 --> 0:07:43.320 that coming. Yeah, but there was an anomaly to the 0:07:43.360 --> 0:07:45.800 Iron Curtain, like it was sealed, like all the borders 0:07:45.800 --> 0:07:50.160 and all of the Eastern Bloc countries were closed and guarded, 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:53.280 and so there was this Iron curtain between the Soviet 0:07:53.320 --> 0:07:56.640 Block and the West. But there was this one little 0:07:56.680 --> 0:08:00.320 pocket like as part of the Yalta Conference, Berlin, which 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:04.679 is totally in East Germany, was also divided up into 0:08:04.680 --> 0:08:08.720 four quadrants, and the in Britain, France and the US 0:08:09.160 --> 0:08:13.400 merged there together, and that was West Berlin, and there 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:16.160 was also East Berlin. Soviet controlled East Berlin. So within 0:08:16.280 --> 0:08:20.720 Soviet controlled East Germany was a little island called West 0:08:20.800 --> 0:08:25.000 Berlin that was controlled by the UH. Well, the West 0:08:25.040 --> 0:08:28.800 German government, the Allies, and there you have it. I 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:32.280 don't think it wasn't a recipe for long term success, No, 0:08:32.800 --> 0:08:35.360 And I don't think anyone thought it would be. I 0:08:35.400 --> 0:08:36.800 don't know. I mean, why would you go to the 0:08:36.840 --> 0:08:39.120 trouble if you thought it wouldn't be I don't know, 0:08:39.200 --> 0:08:42.280 maybe just a temporarily quell things. I mean, surely they 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:44.559 didn't think that would be like that forever. Well, it's 0:08:44.559 --> 0:08:48.760 almost like they went in after yalta whistling with the 0:08:48.800 --> 0:08:51.600 powder keg and just set it down in the middle 0:08:51.640 --> 0:08:55.800 of East Germany and paid out some fuse and lit 0:08:55.840 --> 0:08:58.560 it and whistled as they walked away. That's what they 0:08:58.600 --> 0:09:01.400 did when they divided East in West Berlin. Yeah, and 0:09:01.400 --> 0:09:06.520 there wasn't um Like the Western nations weren't thrilled with 0:09:06.559 --> 0:09:08.680 all this, but there wasn't much we could do because 0:09:09.520 --> 0:09:12.000 they had nuclear bombs and we had nuclear bombs, and 0:09:12.040 --> 0:09:14.120 no one wanted that to happen. So there was a 0:09:14.160 --> 0:09:16.559 lot of spying and a lot of name calling, a 0:09:16.600 --> 0:09:19.520 lot of speeches and rhetoric. There was also a lot 0:09:19.559 --> 0:09:22.000 of kidnaps, a lot of bureaucratic delays, a lot of 0:09:22.000 --> 0:09:24.960 feet dragging, but in the end, there was no it 0:09:25.000 --> 0:09:28.960 wasn't going to lead to another war. No, because like 0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:32.839 you said, both sides had nukes, so nobody could step 0:09:32.920 --> 0:09:35.959 up and provoke one another militarily, right, No, I mean 0:09:36.000 --> 0:09:38.839 not to that degree. So life was really weird in 0:09:39.120 --> 0:09:42.280 um Berlin, in West Berlin, in particular, in East Berlin 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:45.040 it was just part of the rest of East Germany. 0:09:45.080 --> 0:09:48.480 But again, West Berlin was this little island in East 0:09:48.520 --> 0:09:55.960 Germany and there was rail and UM highway, um connections 0:09:56.320 --> 0:09:59.720 to the west. Well, they shared an infrastructure. Yeah, it's 0:09:59.760 --> 0:10:03.280 a weird thing to do, like a mail system, trains, 0:10:03.360 --> 0:10:06.320 it's it's like, it's very you can't it's a hard 0:10:06.320 --> 0:10:09.720 thing to divide a country like that city within the country, right, Yeah, 0:10:09.760 --> 0:10:12.760 that made it even weirder. Um, And I guess it 0:10:12.840 --> 0:10:14.360 carried on like that for a little while, and then 0:10:14.360 --> 0:10:17.240 the Soviets were like, yeah, we really didn't mean anything 0:10:17.320 --> 0:10:19.679 when we agreed to this, so we're gonna cut off 0:10:19.679 --> 0:10:23.360 all this transportation in and out of the city and 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:29.240 um they basically blockaded West Germany from being helped by 0:10:29.600 --> 0:10:34.840 the West through rail and through car. But the Allies 0:10:34.880 --> 0:10:40.000 could still land planes in and out of West Berlin. Yeah, 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:42.319 whether they were trying to choke them out basically and 0:10:42.360 --> 0:10:45.520 just say good luck without food and supply. Yeah, we're 0:10:45.520 --> 0:10:48.280 going to take over the city now. And the Americans said, 0:10:48.280 --> 0:10:50.920 oh yeah, how about the Berlin Airlift, buddy, how about 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:54.040 sorties landing every two minutes, twenty four hours a day, 0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:57.840 bringing in all the supplies you need, the very tight corridor. 0:10:58.280 --> 0:11:00.840 It's difficult, but whether you essay, and we can do 0:11:00.880 --> 0:11:05.040 it because we can fly planes. And it worked. Yeah. 0:11:05.200 --> 0:11:09.600 Apparently the Allied forces who were supplying West Germany just 0:11:09.880 --> 0:11:12.400 enough to keep the city going. We're bringing in more 0:11:12.440 --> 0:11:15.120 than two hundred thousand tons of cargo a month at 0:11:15.160 --> 0:11:17.360 the peak of the airlift, and they kept it going 0:11:17.400 --> 0:11:20.280 for it almost a year. They were basically like, you're 0:11:20.320 --> 0:11:23.240 not gonna You're not taking over West Berlin. Yeah, we 0:11:23.280 --> 0:11:26.360 had planes and we got lots of gas, lots of pilots. 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:30.199 And eventually the Soviet England was like, all right, well, 0:11:30.480 --> 0:11:32.920 I guess that didn't work, so let's go ahead and 0:11:32.920 --> 0:11:36.520 open up those uh the rail traffic in the roads again. Right, 0:11:36.520 --> 0:11:40.240 They lifted the block hayde Um, so things were cool 0:11:40.280 --> 0:11:43.800 for a little while, but the Soviets hadn't really forgotten anything, 0:11:43.840 --> 0:11:47.880 and UM tensions were just increased more and more after 0:11:47.920 --> 0:11:53.880 the Berlin Airlift UM, and I think things were getting 0:11:55.200 --> 0:11:57.840 just more and I get the impression that we were 0:11:57.840 --> 0:12:01.760 getting closer and closer to the threat of nuclear war 0:12:02.400 --> 0:12:06.080 right there in the middle of East Germany UM, and 0:12:06.120 --> 0:12:08.360 apparently no one knew what to do about it. One 0:12:08.440 --> 0:12:11.200 of the biggest things that was provoking these tensions was 0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:15.400 the UM massive amounts of defection from East Germany to 0:12:15.440 --> 0:12:19.280 West Germany, because if you were an East Berliner or 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:22.960 in East German, all you did was trot right into 0:12:23.120 --> 0:12:26.600 West Berlin. There's nothing to stop you catch a plane 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:29.680 out of West Berlin and fly out to wherever you wanted. 0:12:29.760 --> 0:12:32.240 And a lot of people did it, Yeah, and it 0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:35.080 was a real divide between the old Guard and the 0:12:35.120 --> 0:12:37.840 New Guard. It was mostly young professionals that saw the 0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:41.560 riding on the wall. UM. East Germany finally realized they're 0:12:41.559 --> 0:12:43.840 in big trouble when they started looking at the number 0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:47.200 of doctors leaving and realized they couldn't train enough doctors 0:12:48.200 --> 0:12:52.160 UH to support the country that were there that we're exiting. 0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:55.480 So by n more than two hundred thousand East Germans 0:12:55.480 --> 0:12:59.680 had left, and uh, East Germany knew they were in 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:02.400 trouble because in West Germany didn't love it either, because 0:13:03.320 --> 0:13:05.400 there was a big economic strain put on them by 0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:07.520 having all these people to show up all of a sudden, 0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:11.000 say hey, we're here now, like help us out, take 0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:13.120 care of us, right exactly, and you know, not just 0:13:13.160 --> 0:13:16.520 take care of us, but help us take care of ourselves. Yeah, 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:18.600 some of them wanted to stay in Berlin. I'm sure 0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:21.680 plenty of them wanted to just leave Germany altogether. But 0:13:21.960 --> 0:13:24.959 the point is in the West you have this infrastructure 0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:29.480 that's being tested by the number of defections, and then 0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:32.240 in the East you have this huge brain drain going on, 0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:36.200 and so it was causing more and more tension because 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:39.720 the Western forces, the United States and all weren't doing 0:13:39.760 --> 0:13:43.199 anything to stop these defections. And probably we're being a 0:13:43.240 --> 0:13:47.080 little smug about the whole thing because it suggests like, well, 0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:50.520 why do all of your people want to leave in droves. 0:13:50.679 --> 0:13:53.760 Maybe you're doing something wrong, Maybe you should just give up. 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:56.959 And the Soviets said, we're not going to give up. 0:13:57.200 --> 0:14:01.080 Nice try, uncle Sam, but we're not going to do that. Instead, 0:14:01.320 --> 0:14:05.880 we're gonna wait till nightfalls on August twelfth, nineteen sixty one, 0:14:07.200 --> 0:14:09.280 and we'll get to what happened there right after this 0:14:09.360 --> 0:14:15.920 break all right, Josh, It's auguste code name Wall of 0:14:16.000 --> 0:14:22.200 China from the orders of Nikita Kruschev Um but spoken 0:14:22.280 --> 0:14:26.280 by what some call a puppet leader, Walter ulbrick Um. 0:14:26.400 --> 0:14:28.320 Other people say he wasn't so much a puppet and 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:30.840 it was his idea. I'm not really sure what the 0:14:30.880 --> 0:14:34.480 truth is there that actually, but at any rate, they said, 0:14:34.480 --> 0:14:36.560 you know what we're gonna do. We are going to 0:14:37.880 --> 0:14:39.560 in the dead of night turn off all the street 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:42.400 lights and we're gonna start building the wall out of 0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:45.680 concrete post and barbed wire. And when people wake up 0:14:46.200 --> 0:14:48.400 all over the world, they're going to be surprised to 0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:54.880 see about five miles of wall through central Berlin. And 0:14:54.920 --> 0:14:59.680 everyone was surprised, including President Kennedy. Was like a wall, right, 0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:02.680 And at first it was kind of a skimpy wall. 0:15:02.760 --> 0:15:06.080 It was, I mean not not just symbolic like there 0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:08.760 were coils of um razor wire and that kind of thing, 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:11.280 like it was intended to block people, but it was 0:15:11.320 --> 0:15:14.880 nothing like the construction that would follow. And a lot 0:15:14.920 --> 0:15:18.160 of East Berliners, um saw the writing on the wall 0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:22.360 and said, if we have now have a narrow chance 0:15:22.400 --> 0:15:25.560 of escaping, so we're gonna try it. Yeah, and um, 0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:28.400 at that point, the initial few days, they closed sixty 0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:32.280 eight one checkpoints, seal bows off, put armed guards at 0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:36.440 the rest of them, and uh, they closed the train stations. Yeah, 0:15:36.520 --> 0:15:38.880 close the train stations. And then they began in earnest 0:15:38.960 --> 0:15:43.040 what was called the first generation wall was the initial phase, 0:15:43.440 --> 0:15:47.440 and it was crude and it didn't even have the foundation. 0:15:47.480 --> 0:15:53.960 They basically used bricks from bombed out buildings and mortar 0:15:54.400 --> 0:15:56.840 and just kind of started putting up whatever they could 0:15:56.880 --> 0:15:59.360 to form the initial wall. Right. And then how long 0:15:59.400 --> 0:16:02.160 after that until they started to build what we came 0:16:02.200 --> 0:16:06.680 to understand as the Berlin Wall, I think a few years. 0:16:07.000 --> 0:16:08.920 I mean they had to get that first initial phase 0:16:09.280 --> 0:16:12.080 fully built, and then I think they a few years 0:16:12.120 --> 0:16:14.760 later they started work on fortifying it and making it 0:16:14.840 --> 0:16:18.240 like a real wall. So, um, like when we say 0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:21.960 this happened overnight, it literally happened overnight. And there were 0:16:22.040 --> 0:16:25.040 some unfinished parts here there in some pockets that you 0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:28.400 could consumably like make a run for it, a literal 0:16:28.600 --> 0:16:33.360 last ditch attempt to run through UM, but it was 0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:36.280 put up fast enough in in a substantial enough amount 0:16:36.600 --> 0:16:40.800 that people were trapped on either side, Like overnight, if 0:16:40.800 --> 0:16:43.400 you had a one night stand with a lady on 0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:44.960 the other side of the wall, and you woke up 0:16:44.960 --> 0:16:46.680 and you're like, I gotta do the walk of shame 0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:49.160 back over to my apartment, you were met with barbed 0:16:49.160 --> 0:16:51.640 wire fence and guns like and that was that, and 0:16:51.640 --> 0:16:54.240 you married that lady. There was a there was a 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:58.320 woman who gave birth to a son and UM ended 0:16:58.440 --> 0:17:01.840 up on different sides a few weeks after her son 0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:04.480 was born, and he was basically raised in West Germany 0:17:04.520 --> 0:17:07.640 and she was thrown into a prison in East Germany 0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:10.880 for a while. UM. There were a lot of stories 0:17:10.880 --> 0:17:14.600 of people who were just just separated overnight from their families. 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:19.000 A lot of parents suspected that this that some sort 0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:22.040 of border enforcement was going to be put up at 0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:24.000 some point, so they're like, well, we need to get 0:17:24.040 --> 0:17:26.480 over to West Germany. But they tried to do it right. 0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:29.520 They went over and they rented an apartment, left their 0:17:29.600 --> 0:17:32.840 kids back there, got jobs, started to save money until 0:17:32.880 --> 0:17:35.680 he could move their kids over. And some families were 0:17:35.720 --> 0:17:39.280 cut off because they didn't get their kids over in time. Yeah, 0:17:39.320 --> 0:17:42.879 and again this was all um violated. They alto agreement. 0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:46.160 I mean it was all these treaties were completely violated 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:50.800 and it was illegal. But um once again quietly a 0:17:50.840 --> 0:17:54.679 lot of like it was a burning kettle, a boiling kettle, 0:17:55.200 --> 0:17:58.840 burning and boiling kettle, and things were not looking good. 0:17:58.880 --> 0:18:00.840 So everyone was kind of like, all right, maybe this 0:18:00.880 --> 0:18:03.879 will at least quell things for now. And it's not 0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:06.639 the worst idea in the world, because don't quote me 0:18:06.680 --> 0:18:10.000 on that. No, And if you were West Berliner or 0:18:10.040 --> 0:18:12.640 an East Berliner, but especially at West Berliner, you did 0:18:12.680 --> 0:18:15.200 think it was the worst idea in the world. And 0:18:15.359 --> 0:18:19.320 when it became clear that America and NATO weren't going 0:18:19.359 --> 0:18:22.040 to do anything about this, there was a deep sense 0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:27.320 of betrayal by West Berliner's. They were like, but this, 0:18:27.320 --> 0:18:30.560 this spot in East Germany where the Soviets had been 0:18:30.600 --> 0:18:35.760 hemorrhaging face had been cauterized for now, and like you say, 0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:39.679 the West was secretly relieved. One of the things about 0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:42.800 this wall that I didn't know until this article was 0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:46.960 that it wasn't just a straight line. It was a circle. Yeah, 0:18:47.040 --> 0:18:50.879 the actual the one that enclosed Berlin enclosed fully in 0:18:50.920 --> 0:18:54.040 a circle of West Berlin. Yes, And the reason why 0:18:54.119 --> 0:18:56.840 is because remember West Berlin was an island in the 0:18:56.880 --> 0:18:59.040 middle of East Germany. So you couldn't just cut off 0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:01.800 East Berlin from West Berlin. You had to cut off 0:19:01.840 --> 0:19:04.560 all of each Germany from West Berlin. And the only 0:19:04.560 --> 0:19:07.399 way to do that was to encircle West Berlin with 0:19:07.440 --> 0:19:12.639 the wall. That's right, like a prison almost. Um. All right, well, 0:19:12.640 --> 0:19:14.520 I guess we should talk a little bit about the wall, 0:19:14.960 --> 0:19:18.800 the physical wall, and what it was like. Um. Eventually 0:19:18.840 --> 0:19:24.280 when they got to the fine well, it evolved over 0:19:24.320 --> 0:19:27.119 the course of you know, many many years. But the 0:19:27.119 --> 0:19:30.280 second phase was when they had the legit twelve to 0:19:30.359 --> 0:19:35.680 fifteen foot concrete uh studded rebar walls with guard towers 0:19:35.720 --> 0:19:39.320 and guns. Uh. They were topped with the tubes so 0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:42.119 make it hard to get ahold. There are really two 0:19:42.160 --> 0:19:46.359 walls there was. There was the first uh run of 0:19:46.520 --> 0:19:50.080 barbed wire and these tank traps. If you saw saving 0:19:50.119 --> 0:19:53.159 Private Ryan, you've seen those those big like jaggedy things 0:19:53.200 --> 0:19:59.400 like on the beach. Tank traps and they're like huge jacks. Yeah, 0:19:59.400 --> 0:20:03.120 that's why, yeah, pretty much. Uh, and thanks can't run 0:20:03.119 --> 0:20:05.440 over him, which is I think is a key. It's 0:20:05.440 --> 0:20:09.119 like all traps um. So there was that area, and 0:20:09.119 --> 0:20:12.800 then there was about thirty to forty yards depending on 0:20:12.800 --> 0:20:16.720 where it was of just They called it the what 0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:20.280 the death strip where they put chemicals on the ground 0:20:20.280 --> 0:20:23.280 to kill all the vegetation. They got German shepherds and 0:20:23.280 --> 0:20:28.800 put them on um extra long leaders that basically brought 0:20:28.840 --> 0:20:31.120 them nose to nose but didn't allow them to get 0:20:31.160 --> 0:20:33.320 into it with each other. But there were no gaps, 0:20:33.359 --> 0:20:35.520 you know, you had to encounter a German shepherd and 0:20:35.560 --> 0:20:37.960 then if you got through all that junk, you got 0:20:37.960 --> 0:20:40.600 to the actual concrete wall, and then on that wall 0:20:40.640 --> 0:20:44.359 the actual At some part there were guard towers with 0:20:44.440 --> 0:20:50.240 searchlights and they were crafty little um communists. They had 0:20:50.400 --> 0:20:54.000 um They would use like standard gravel for the walkways. Well, 0:20:54.240 --> 0:20:57.760 Germany is stand, so they would just use the ground, 0:20:58.200 --> 0:21:01.480 but they would keep it very well raked um smoothly 0:21:01.600 --> 0:21:04.199 rake so that you could see footprints very easily. And 0:21:04.240 --> 0:21:07.760 everything was painted a bright white so anything would show 0:21:07.840 --> 0:21:10.600 up against it very clearly. Yeah, and that's on the 0:21:11.000 --> 0:21:13.399 east side. On the west side it was painted with 0:21:13.440 --> 0:21:18.120 graffiti and art. And because they were just crazy free people, well, 0:21:18.160 --> 0:21:20.360 they could walk right up to the wall too. They 0:21:20.400 --> 0:21:22.640 didn't have to go through German shepherds or razor wire 0:21:22.800 --> 0:21:25.000 tank traps. They just walked right up to the wall 0:21:25.040 --> 0:21:28.560 and show their disdained for it by using graffiti or 0:21:28.600 --> 0:21:31.040 peeing on it. Probably, I'm sure the Berlin Wall was 0:21:31.080 --> 0:21:33.560 paid on more than once. I guess that Ronald Reagan 0:21:33.600 --> 0:21:38.760 famously did. Uh. There were trip wires that were hooked 0:21:38.840 --> 0:21:42.479 up to automatic uh machine gun fire for a while. 0:21:42.720 --> 0:21:48.080 Eventually they um agreed to take those down. Um. And 0:21:48.119 --> 0:21:51.359 apparently it was tough to even get guards on this 0:21:51.440 --> 0:21:54.080 thing because they first had to weed out they didn't 0:21:54.080 --> 0:21:56.199 want any guards that had ties to West Germany at all. 0:21:56.640 --> 0:21:58.760 A lot of a lot of guards defected in the 0:21:58.800 --> 0:22:02.000 early days. Yeah, they realized we got to get guards 0:22:02.040 --> 0:22:05.080 that have no family over there, no affinity over there, 0:22:05.480 --> 0:22:08.680 and that really narrowed the pool down. And then, uh, 0:22:08.760 --> 0:22:10.600 I'm sure there were some guards that were GungHo, but 0:22:10.640 --> 0:22:13.879 a lot of them were alcoholics and did not like 0:22:14.080 --> 0:22:16.920 their post and didn't want to be there and didn't 0:22:16.920 --> 0:22:19.000 want to have the orders to shoot to kill. They're 0:22:19.280 --> 0:22:22.080 what they might have seen is still their fellow countrymen. Yeah, 0:22:22.240 --> 0:22:24.080 I'm sure, a lot of them did. And we should 0:22:24.080 --> 0:22:28.400 say also that not everybody was trapped in East Germany. 0:22:28.440 --> 0:22:31.080 There were There was a strong sentiment after the war, 0:22:31.200 --> 0:22:36.639 especially that um, West Germany was the part that was 0:22:37.040 --> 0:22:40.440 much more associated with the Nazi regime, the some of 0:22:40.480 --> 0:22:42.840 the worst atrocities were carried out and what was now 0:22:42.920 --> 0:22:47.080 West Germany and in the East there was a perceived 0:22:47.359 --> 0:22:54.240 separation from that physically and now historically. Um, that was 0:22:54.280 --> 0:22:56.760 one reason some people like to stay in East Germany. Yeah, 0:22:56.800 --> 0:22:59.240 and I got the impression that definitely was a sort 0:22:59.280 --> 0:23:02.480