1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. M 4 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:26,159 Speaker 1: Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my 5 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: name is normal. They call me Ben. We are joined 6 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:32,880 Speaker 1: with our super producer Paul Decans. Most importantly, you are you. 7 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:35,880 Speaker 1: You are here, and that makes this stuff they don't 8 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 1: want you to know, but not any normal episode of 9 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 1: stuff they'll want you know. Not as if we've ever 10 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:47,559 Speaker 1: had a normal episode. Yeah, it changed so quickly on us. 11 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 1: But this episode is a little bit different because we 12 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 1: are delving into uh several different stories that you are 13 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 1: doubtlessly familiar with if you have explored podcast in the past, 14 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 1: and we're not doing it alone today. We are joined 15 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:12,480 Speaker 1: by UH filmmaker, documentary and co creator and host of 16 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: the hit podcast Up and Vanished, Friends and neighbors, conspiracy 17 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 1: realists and skeptics alike. Uh say hello to Payne lindsay 18 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:23,679 Speaker 1: not too much, man, We're just over here. You know. 19 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: On this show, we talked about true crime a whole lot. Um. 20 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:31,119 Speaker 1: We delve into all different aspects of it, but we 21 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 1: really were excited to talk to you somebody who's created 22 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:38,039 Speaker 1: a whole show and a series of shows about true crime, 23 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:41,120 Speaker 1: specifically where you you get to spend more than just 24 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:43,399 Speaker 1: one episode talking about a case, where you get to 25 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 1: delve into every single aspect. And you know, with your 26 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 1: show Up and Vanished as season one, man the Tera 27 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 1: Grinstad case. UM, I just wonder if anybody hasn't listened 28 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 1: to this yet, who was listening to this show right now? 29 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 1: Can you give everyone just kind of a brief overview 30 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 1: of that case? Yeah? Sure so, Stephen, one of the 31 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 1: Up and Vanished covered a missing person's case in South 32 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 1: Georgia is a missing beauty queen and high school teacher 33 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 1: named Tera Grinstead. It was over ten years cold and 34 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 1: there were no leads anymore, and people pretty much just 35 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 1: stopped talking about it in South Georgia. And I came 36 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 1: around and made a podcast about our disappearance and it 37 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 1: started interging people in the town. And then about six 38 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:28,920 Speaker 1: months into the podcast, about halfway through, there was a 39 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 1: major break in the case and a tip came forth 40 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 1: to law enforcement, which promptly to search this e con 41 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 1: orchard and um, they've made two arrests for terrorist murder. 42 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 1: So it was a huge story. And UM, it's bizarre 43 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 1: because when I first got involved, it was kind of 44 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 1: like this sort of um part of the town that 45 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 1: people don't want to talk about this anymore at all. 46 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 1: They were um afraid to mention people's names. Over the years, 47 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:58,799 Speaker 1: over a decade, people of pointed fingers at each other, 48 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: and they kind of given up on the idea of, 49 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 1: you know, ever really finding out what happened is here. 50 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:06,800 Speaker 1: It was such a big mystery. But about six months 51 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 1: into the podcast, there was a major break in the case. 52 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 1: And from that point forward we essentially followed um the 53 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:17,959 Speaker 1: suspects and their friends and interviewed everybody and actually just recently, um, 54 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 1: the one of the accused, Ryan Duke, hired a new 55 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:22,640 Speaker 1: attorney and in the next six months or so, there 56 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 1: should be a trial in Tyr Grinstead's case. Oh man, wow, 57 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 1: that's I mean, that's powerful stuff too. And this is 58 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 1: something that a lot of the folks in our audience 59 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 1: today are definitely wondering when when they hear about the 60 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 1: story about the investigation that you conducted under your own power, 61 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 1: especially at first there several of the people listening now 62 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 1: are probably aspiring keyboard sleuths right to use use the 63 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 1: phrase that I think you came up with, Matt. So 64 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 1: we'd like to ask on their behalf about the process. 65 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 1: How did you begin, um, making these connections and tracking 66 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 1: down the this information that in some cases it sounds 67 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 1: like people did not want you to find. I mean, 68 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 1: it's really difficult, but it's it's the same way as 69 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 1: you could think of on your own if you've ever 70 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:19,280 Speaker 1: been on Reddit or the up Advantage discussion board, different 71 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:22,920 Speaker 1: websites like web slues. Um, it's all the same thing. 72 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 1: You know, you try to find people's names, you find 73 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:29,359 Speaker 1: their contact information. Actually use Facebook a lot because you 74 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 1: can see their faces and you can verify that that's 75 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 1: who they are. You can see their friends and so 76 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:37,160 Speaker 1: I know I'll I do that usually just just with 77 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 1: my own real Facebook profile too, So you know, if 78 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:42,839 Speaker 1: I'm reaching out to a stranger, I'm saying, hey, look 79 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 1: here's pictures of me and my family. I'm a real person. 80 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 1: I'm not just some catfish online. So um, you know, 81 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 1: it's a It can be exhausting sometimes because you know, 82 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:55,479 Speaker 1: you can go down a rabbit hole that is just 83 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 1: completely just nothing, and you know I've done that before. 84 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: Several times admittedly, But UM, I think you have to 85 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: do that to find the truth. Sometimes, UM, you don't 86 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 1: know that until you reached the bottom of that hole 87 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 1: and you realize, oh, okay, well there's nothing here, or 88 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:14,599 Speaker 1: this is just all wrong. Um. And that's kind of 89 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:17,360 Speaker 1: like the synopsis of she'son one of up and vanished 90 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:19,680 Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, you know, I was. I 91 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:23,919 Speaker 1: basically started with the two or three persons of interest 92 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 1: that law enforcement had unofficially announced to the media and 93 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:32,040 Speaker 1: that everyone had covered over the years, and explored all 94 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 1: of these people and their friends and um, everything else extensively, 95 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 1: and then it didn't really go anywhere. Things were weird 96 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 1: and suspicious, but there was nothing concrete, none of it 97 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:45,599 Speaker 1: really made sense. And then sure enough, out of the blue, 98 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: there was a tip that came forward, and um it 99 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 1: was two guys no one ever heard of, two former students. 100 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:54,040 Speaker 1: So you know, there's a lot to be learned, um 101 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 1: from my first go around. And uh, I had definitely 102 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 1: am applying a lot of that to season two, and um, 103 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 1: it's an entirely different case and it's complex in different ways. Oh, 104 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:07,600 Speaker 1: it most certainly is uh, and I want to get 105 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 1: into that in just a second page. I just want 106 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:12,360 Speaker 1: to stick on season one just because they're there are 107 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 1: a couple moments in here in um in Minutia I 108 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:19,280 Speaker 1: want to just explore with you. So you know, you're 109 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 1: talking about just giving your Facebook out to random people 110 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 1: that you don't know, you don't know how they're involved, 111 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 1: necessarily in the case at least behind closed doors, right, Um. 112 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 1: But you're putting yourself out there doing that, and this 113 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 1: is a small town where people know each other, where 114 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:37,479 Speaker 1: there is a real threat of some kind of perhaps 115 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 1: retaliation from either a person or a group of people 116 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 1: that actually carried out this murder. Um, Like, what what 117 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 1: kind of security measures did you end up getting in 118 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 1: place when you're walking around that town on foot, when 119 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:52,480 Speaker 1: you're talking to people maybe in their house or at 120 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:55,480 Speaker 1: a public place, Like, how do you protect yourself? It's 121 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:58,360 Speaker 1: funny because that at first I didn't really think about 122 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:00,160 Speaker 1: it too much. I just have my blinders on one 123 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 1: and I was just being almost foolishly fearless about it 124 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:08,240 Speaker 1: and just didn't really, you think too much about my 125 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 1: own safety. I was too determined to figure out what 126 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: was going on, and most of the time it was 127 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 1: from the comfort of my own home if I was 128 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 1: on my computer and making phone calls. But um, when 129 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 1: I went down there, I definitely took more precautions and 130 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 1: I didn't really you know, make a whole bunch of 131 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 1: noise when I was there. And it really wasn't until 132 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 1: the very end um of the season, after the arrest 133 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 1: had been made and I was interviewing different friends of 134 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 1: the suspects, that I felt really uncomfortable down um, and 135 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 1: I was still a Georgia for the first time, And 136 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 1: it was at that point that I realized, Okay, I'm 137 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 1: not coming down here again alone one and UM, I'm 138 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 1: gonna have a completely different game plan whenever I come 139 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 1: back here. And so i've um, I've since been back 140 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 1: to film some stuff for the TV show that we 141 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 1: have in the works, and this this go around, we 142 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 1: actually had security with us and they were outside of 143 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 1: our door the whole night. Um, they were staying the 144 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 1: stay in the same hotels as we did, so we 145 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 1: actually kind of hiring security. And the last time we 146 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 1: were there. And by the way, that is the I 147 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 1: think it's been announced enough now that we can say 148 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 1: that's been It's going to be developed with oxygen, right, Yeah, 149 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 1: that's correct, So look for the Up and Vanished TV 150 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 1: show on Oxygen. Everybody, Yes, yeah, and let us let 151 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 1: us know what you think about it, because it's no 152 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: secret that here at stuff they'll want you to know. 153 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:32,959 Speaker 1: We're also excited and you can't wait to see, can't 154 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 1: wait to see how it all turns out and how 155 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 1: the puzzle pieces matched together. When we're talking about security, 156 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:47,199 Speaker 1: naturally we begin to wonder about law enforcement, right, especially 157 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:51,959 Speaker 1: in the situation that occurs in Up and Vanished season one, 158 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:56,599 Speaker 1: And for everyone who's listening there there may be spoiler 159 00:08:56,760 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 1: territory here. But one of the questions and we have 160 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 1: to ask is, given that the relationship between law enforcement 161 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 1: and journalists can be such a complicated thing, Uh, did 162 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 1: did you feel any support or did you feel any 163 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:16,439 Speaker 1: I guess, on the other extreme animosity from local authorities 164 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 1: when you were poking around initially in this case, well, 165 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 1: at first, um in Terra Grinsett's case, at first local 166 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 1: law enforcement, the Asilibo Police Department was pretty welcoming to me. Uh. 167 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 1: They wanted the case solved too, and they had essentially 168 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:36,080 Speaker 1: run out of leeds. Anyone who was going to go 169 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 1: out on a limb and try to solve this and 170 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 1: piece this together on their own. Um, they supported that. 171 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:47,200 Speaker 1: So at first it was they were pretty cooperative. Now, 172 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 1: the gb I, the Georgia Room investigation, they never really 173 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 1: talked to me in the beginning, and from what I've heard, 174 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:56,720 Speaker 1: that's that's sort of like them. It's still an active 175 00:09:56,760 --> 00:10:00,120 Speaker 1: case in their eyes, there was an active investigations. They 176 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 1: didn't want to divulge any details about the case or 177 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:07,560 Speaker 1: really comment on it too much. But um, really halfway 178 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 1: through the series is when things started to change. Once 179 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 1: there was to arrest in the case, it just got 180 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:16,840 Speaker 1: real again. It went from being a colde case to 181 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 1: a murder case with two suspects that have been arrested, 182 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:23,079 Speaker 1: and so with that comes all these new rumors about 183 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 1: these people and almost a live investigation again. And so 184 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:31,960 Speaker 1: from that point forward, really no law enforcement wanted to 185 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 1: talk to me at all. And um, you know, really, 186 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:38,320 Speaker 1: if you listen to the entire series, there's not a 187 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:41,679 Speaker 1: single interview with a police officer that was a part 188 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:44,680 Speaker 1: of that case. None. And it's kind of hard to 189 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:48,439 Speaker 1: imagine that now, but um, that's just the way it was. Wow. 190 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 1: But you so you did have assistance there, I mean, 191 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 1: there are so many voices on the show. You had 192 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:57,440 Speaker 1: assistance from investigators and some other people that came through 193 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:00,840 Speaker 1: and ended up assisting you in some way, right, I 194 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:03,440 Speaker 1: wouldn't I wouldn't call an assistance. I think it was 195 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 1: just they were they were supportive of the podcast and 196 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:12,959 Speaker 1: someone telling terror story on a major platform, but they 197 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 1: weren't giving me tips or pointing me in a direction. 198 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:21,199 Speaker 1: They stayed. They steered very clear of that, and really 199 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:24,719 Speaker 1: they it seemed like after the arrest they didn't really 200 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 1: want to touch the podcast at all. So when you're 201 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 1: out there interviewing folks, I'm sure you want to travel 202 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:33,800 Speaker 1: lights so you can be kind of like you know, UM, 203 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 1: nimble and getting around and getting as much in as 204 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 1: you can. What kind of equipment do you use when 205 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:41,720 Speaker 1: you're out in the field recording interviews and chasing down leads? 206 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 1: What's your kid? My kid is my MacBook Pro and 207 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:50,440 Speaker 1: all of my files sinked on dropbox and for the 208 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 1: team to share. And I usually I just run with 209 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 1: a Zoom eight six and either a shotgun mike attached 210 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:03,320 Speaker 1: to it, or I'm running like a really short xcel 211 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 1: our table to a better sounding mic UM and then 212 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 1: someone's usually holding that. But I like to have one 213 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 1: eight six with an onboard mic on it at all 214 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:14,160 Speaker 1: times just in case I'm all of a sudden talking 215 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 1: to someone who's telling me something very important, I'd rather 216 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:19,080 Speaker 1: not record it on my phone, so I get some 217 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 1: decent audio from an onboard microphone with the Zoom made six. 218 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 1: But that's that's pretty much it. It's pretty simple. That's awesome, 219 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 1: and it's actually pretty affordable. And there are some other 220 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:32,679 Speaker 1: versions of that Zoom that you can get there even cheaper. 221 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:35,600 Speaker 1: If you're thinking about starting your own thing listening out 222 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 1: there or you know, checking it out, you can you 223 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 1: can affordably get some stuff to make a pretty cool show. 224 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 1: And we'll return to this story after a word from 225 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:55,960 Speaker 1: our sponsor, and we're back. While we're talking about inspiration, 226 00:12:56,800 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 1: let's take a let's go a little bit further down 227 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 1: the rabbit hole, because, as long time listeners, No Pain, 228 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:10,480 Speaker 1: You and Tenderfoot TV did not just create up and vanished. 229 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:15,200 Speaker 1: You also have created Atlanta Monster along with for peek 230 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 1: behind the scenes, uh collaboration with our very own Matt 231 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 1: Frederick and Ben Bowling and Paul and you know, yeah, 232 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 1: well it's a teamwork makes the dream work. But the 233 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 1: reason this goes to a question of inspiration is I'm 234 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:34,960 Speaker 1: sure many people are curious to learn what originally inspired 235 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:38,840 Speaker 1: you and uh, you're Donald and your team at Tenderfoot 236 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 1: to investigate the story of Wayne Williams. Yeah, definitely, Really 237 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 1: it was. It was my business partner Donald who brought 238 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:49,080 Speaker 1: Way Williams to my attention, and I had never heard 239 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 1: of the Atlanta childmers before it happened in the early eighties, 240 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 1: and I just started diving into the story and looking 241 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 1: into it and just taking me back to that time 242 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 1: period is seeing how different Atlanta was. I just saw 243 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:05,080 Speaker 1: so many different reasons to tell this story. Beyond the 244 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 1: question whether or not Wayne Williams was incent or guilty. 245 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 1: I saw sort of paying a picture of a time 246 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:14,080 Speaker 1: period that was in some ways forgotten and that shouldn't be. 247 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 1: If I didn't know about the atlantild murders, that meant 248 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 1: that there was probably thousands, hundreds of thousands of people 249 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 1: who also didn't know about the child murders, and it 250 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 1: turns out that was correct. Um. I just saw there 251 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 1: was so much to explore there, and I thought the 252 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 1: race part of it seemed extremely relevant. To today, and 253 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 1: I thought that we could, you know, extract some sort 254 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 1: of positive silver lining message from it in some way 255 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 1: so difficult, I thought that we did that. Um and 256 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 1: I just thought it was in some way the history 257 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 1: lesson for people and even for myself. And that's what 258 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 1: I thought. It was so cool because as I was 259 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 1: diving through all the old archives and just inter doing 260 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 1: these people being taken back to a time period that 261 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 1: I wasn't a part of and seeing how different it 262 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 1: was really kind of opened my mind a little bit. 263 00:14:57,040 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 1: There's a lot of reasons why I chose to to 264 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 1: tell the story the Atlanta child murders, and they weren't 265 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:06,560 Speaker 1: all about Wayne Williams. Just for anybody who hasn't listened yet, Um, 266 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 1: hey to do this to you, Fay, but can you 267 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 1: give us an overview of the Atlanta jal murders case. 268 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 1: You mean you haven't listened to Atlanta Monster. I mean 269 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 1: I haven't heard any of If you haven't listened to 270 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 1: Atlanta Monster, you should be pressing pause right now. Um. So, 271 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 1: Atlanta Monster is about the Atlanta child murders that occurred 272 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 1: in the eighties. There is a man in prison for 273 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 1: some of the murders. His name is Wayne Williams, and 274 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:38,200 Speaker 1: for the past several decades a lot of people have 275 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 1: questioned whether or not Wayne Williams is the right guy. 276 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 1: And Wayne Williams today in still says I'm not the guy. 277 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:48,680 Speaker 1: I didn't kill anybody. So there's always a bunch of 278 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:51,480 Speaker 1: a bunch of conspiracies around this case, a lot of 279 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 1: different advocates either for against Wayne Williams, and a lot 280 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 1: of unsolved murders of these children. Um either way, how 281 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 1: do you slighted? Um? There was upwards of kids on 282 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 1: this list of children who were murdered in Atlanta in 283 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 1: that time period, and only about half of them were 284 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 1: um blamed on WAYN Williams. And what at leasas was 285 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 1: basically is a bunch of unsolved murders of children, And 286 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:26,600 Speaker 1: so they're either way. There was a huge injustice done 287 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 1: whether way Williams was a seal killer or not. So 288 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 1: we essentially explored that and not to get too much away, 289 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 1: but during the podcast, we make contact with way Williams 290 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 1: in prison and he gives us his take on everything, 291 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 1: and he's still flaiming his innocence, but as he gives 292 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 1: us new information that is supposed to prove his innocence. 293 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 1: We kind of go back through that and dissect it 294 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 1: and find out whether or not it's legitimate, and it's 295 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 1: it's complicated, but it would take listening to the whole 296 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 1: series to get a big, bigger picture. So you you 297 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 1: did talk to Wayne Williams. Um Now, perhaps you don't 298 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:07,960 Speaker 1: have to, you don't have to answer to this pain, 299 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:11,440 Speaker 1: But I'm just gonna ask it. How does one talk 300 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 1: to convicted possibly serial killer in prison? Oh? My, I 301 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:22,159 Speaker 1: don't know how I did that. It was I found 302 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:25,360 Speaker 1: it pretty difficult, just because I had to sort of 303 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 1: put on this sort of persona of wanting to hear 304 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:33,960 Speaker 1: everything he had to say, and I wanted to gain 305 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:35,880 Speaker 1: his trust, and I did want to hear him out. 306 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 1: I wanted to hear he told me he had proof 307 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 1: that he was innocent, so I wanted to hear it. 308 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:43,280 Speaker 1: I was gonna give him the benefit of my own 309 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:48,119 Speaker 1: doubts and hear him out. But over time it just 310 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:51,959 Speaker 1: became really difficult because he would call me at random 311 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:56,159 Speaker 1: hours from different numbers in prison, and we would just 312 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 1: talk for long periods of time about the same exact things. 313 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:03,199 Speaker 1: And I sort of realizing that He wasn't really calling 314 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:06,359 Speaker 1: me to to tell me he was innocent, or for 315 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 1: me to get him out of prison, and what he 316 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:11,199 Speaker 1: didn't really seem too concerned about that. He really just 317 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: wanted the spotlight. He wanted to He wanted someone to 318 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 1: talk to, like myself, and if it wasn't me, it 319 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 1: was somebody else. And so over time it became harder 320 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 1: to talk to him, and my patience levels significantly decreased. 321 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 1: My patience was pretty much lost there by the end, 322 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 1: and I had to sort of pass way Williams off 323 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:35,480 Speaker 1: to Donald's for a little bit because we were building 324 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 1: the podcast, and you know, our calls weren't very constructive. 325 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:42,840 Speaker 1: They were just sort of rehashing things that didn't really 326 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:46,439 Speaker 1: make sense, and so just kind of grabbing the steering 327 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:50,640 Speaker 1: wheel and and taking it somewhere at all, anywhere of significance. 328 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:54,840 Speaker 1: Was just playing difficult. But um, we did our best 329 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 1: to extract as much information, legitimate information as possible, whether 330 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:03,399 Speaker 1: or not it was true. You know, it is just 331 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:06,960 Speaker 1: for some more background information here, Um just paining you're 332 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 1: talking about just how little time you actually had when 333 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:13,480 Speaker 1: we were in production of this. So, um, there was 334 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 1: a production team on the house stuff works end that 335 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 1: would and you know engineer and work on the shows 336 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:21,400 Speaker 1: and edit to a certain extent, but most of everything 337 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 1: was edited, at least in the major first past, by 338 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 1: you by paying himself, um as he's also like going 339 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:31,720 Speaker 1: out and recording everything and doing the interviews and stuff. 340 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 1: So yeah, time was of the essence, And I can't 341 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:38,960 Speaker 1: imagine getting stuck on the phone for like two hours 342 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:41,199 Speaker 1: at a time you're in a crunch, and even the 343 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 1: hassle of going through the bureaucratic steps necessary to gain 344 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 1: access right to convicted. So we're your calls monitored as well? 345 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:56,920 Speaker 1: Surely they were right, Definitely in any call that came 346 00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:00,480 Speaker 1: from the prison itself, it's always monitored, and there little 347 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:03,000 Speaker 1: voice that comes on before the call starts that lets 348 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 1: you know for sure that it's definitely being recorded. And 349 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:10,880 Speaker 1: within these in these conversations, you know, you you hit 350 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:13,359 Speaker 1: on the fact that there was at times this feeling 351 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:16,159 Speaker 1: of talking to a broken record or hearing a record 352 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 1: on repeat. But one thing that fascinates me in this 353 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:24,120 Speaker 1: story is something that you mentioned at the very top 354 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:27,879 Speaker 1: when we're talking about this, that you found stories and 355 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:33,920 Speaker 1: threads that did not necessarily have a direct relationship with 356 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 1: Wayne Williams. Could you tell us maybe one or two 357 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 1: aspects of this journey that surprised you as you dug 358 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 1: further into the investigation. I guess the most surprising part 359 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 1: of it to me was just how severe the injustice 360 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:53,800 Speaker 1: was to some of these families. Talking to the families 361 00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:58,880 Speaker 1: myself and um, just hearing their stories in person really 362 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:03,439 Speaker 1: shane to my entire perspective of the Atlantic Ship murders 363 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:06,160 Speaker 1: and way Williams and what the true injustice was here, 364 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:08,920 Speaker 1: So that that threat alone was the biggest just sort 365 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:13,679 Speaker 1: of seeing all these children's murder cases essentially being swept 366 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 1: under the rug, and the FBI and the Atlanta police 367 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:21,119 Speaker 1: honing in on way Williams and wanting this to go 368 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:24,919 Speaker 1: away so badly, and for reasons that aren't just about 369 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 1: catching a killer, reasons that are about preserving the cities. Um, 370 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:32,879 Speaker 1: you know, the way the city looks and feels to 371 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 1: the newcomers, and just Atlanta was on the rise and 372 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 1: people in power saw this as something that needs to 373 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 1: go away, and it needs to go away fast. And 374 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:47,040 Speaker 1: so with that mentality came this sort of um sweeping 375 00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:50,000 Speaker 1: under the rug with these cases. And so what happened 376 00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:53,679 Speaker 1: is you talk to these families and almost all of 377 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 1: them will tell you that they don't think way Williams 378 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:58,360 Speaker 1: did it. And in my opinion, I don't think that 379 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 1: that's because way Williams didn't necessarily killed there their son 380 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:06,800 Speaker 1: or their daughter. I think it's because they were It 381 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:10,360 Speaker 1: was never proven to them otherwise. No one ever proved 382 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:14,600 Speaker 1: to these families that Wayne Williams killed their child. And 383 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 1: that's the biggest part of this whole whole mystery to me. 384 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 1: And so over the years, decades and decades, it sort 385 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 1: of perpetuates this idea of conspiracies and you know what 386 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:27,919 Speaker 1: the KKK involved, all of these other different threads that 387 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:31,159 Speaker 1: just come to light because it was never proven to 388 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:35,119 Speaker 1: them that it was Wayne Williams. Even if it was 389 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 1: WAYN Williams, they would still tell you otherwise because over 390 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 1: the years, it's sort of the they've developed this sort 391 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:43,240 Speaker 1: of way of thinking about it, and you know, it's 392 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 1: just awful. Um. But that was the biggest thread that 393 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:49,520 Speaker 1: I wanted to explore outside of this Wayne Williams themselves, 394 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:52,560 Speaker 1: was sort of the impact on the families and the 395 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:56,280 Speaker 1: way people have perceived this generations ago. People felt this 396 00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 1: way about it and now they're telling them this way 397 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,200 Speaker 1: about it. Just sort of seeing the then and out 398 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:03,160 Speaker 1: and kind of exploring all the different people that were 399 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:06,399 Speaker 1: affected by this and there have views on it. To 400 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:09,760 Speaker 1: me was really just the core of the podcast, dude. 401 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:15,480 Speaker 1: So okay, this is another kind of personal question. Making 402 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,879 Speaker 1: a show like Up a Vanish or Atlanta Monster, it 403 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 1: requires a certain amount of obsession. I think you would 404 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:24,679 Speaker 1: agree with that, Um, just to get it right. Definitely. 405 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:29,480 Speaker 1: Have you found that that has any psychological effects in 406 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 1: a way that makes you think about the world differently 407 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 1: or just shapes your vision in some way in the 408 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:37,800 Speaker 1: real world where you're walking around, Um, if you've got 409 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 1: all this dark stuff just kind of looming in the 410 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:42,919 Speaker 1: back of your head, yeah, I mean, it definitely has 411 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:46,520 Speaker 1: an effect on you. It's a pretty dark subject matter, 412 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:49,880 Speaker 1: and I try not to focus too much on the 413 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:52,359 Speaker 1: dark parts of it. I'm not the kind of person 414 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:55,720 Speaker 1: who wants to take the story of a murder and 415 00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: just punctuate all the story details of it. That is 416 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,920 Speaker 1: something that I'm ever interested in. I'm more interested in 417 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:09,480 Speaker 1: interviewing the people surrounding this event or this unsolved mystery 418 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:13,760 Speaker 1: and sort of diving into the hundreds of people that 419 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 1: it affects, or even in the thousands. Um. So I 420 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 1: try to like keep my focus on things that aren't 421 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 1: the darkest elements of these stories. But regardless, at the 422 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 1: core of it is this really sad and disturbing story, 423 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:31,920 Speaker 1: whether it's a missing person's case or it's the Atlantia murders, 424 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 1: and so it definitely has an effect on me psychologically, 425 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:37,359 Speaker 1: but I do my best to sort of tune that 426 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 1: out and not let that affect my day to day 427 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,679 Speaker 1: life and also not affect the way I tell the story. 428 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:47,600 Speaker 1: It's really really easy, especially if you're becoming obsessed over um, 429 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:50,800 Speaker 1: a murder case or a story like this, to to 430 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:54,439 Speaker 1: just kind of lose all sight of what's what the 431 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 1: reality is, you know, what's really going on. It's easy 432 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,439 Speaker 1: to get lost in it, and then you could come 433 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:03,359 Speaker 1: up with an episode that sounds crazy to people. So 434 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 1: I have to kind of check myself at all times, 435 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 1: and you know, keep a certain amount of distance. Even 436 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:12,119 Speaker 1: though I'm plopping myself right in the middle of these things, 437 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:14,880 Speaker 1: I still have a certain amount of distance I keep, 438 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,120 Speaker 1: and that's for my own safety, in my own sanity 439 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 1: really and also so I can tell a better, more 440 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 1: objective true story. So does Wayne Williams ever like shoot 441 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 1: you the occasional text or anything. Oh not anymore. I 442 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:31,320 Speaker 1: think he's got I think his cell phone's got snatched up. 443 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 1: But um, I've definitely got some phone calls from prison 444 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:37,720 Speaker 1: that I believe our Wayne, and I haven't even listened 445 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 1: to the voicemails, but um, I think it's probably Wayne Williams. 446 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaker 1: But really since the podcast, I haven't really been talking 447 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,320 Speaker 1: to him at all. I think that if I were 448 00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 1: to reach out to him and want to talk to 449 00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 1: him again, he would totally do it without a doubt, 450 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 1: and at the drop of the hat, he would hop 451 00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 1: on the phone, and beyond any of my podcasts, I 452 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:01,639 Speaker 1: would think, and we're gonna take a quick break and 453 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:11,240 Speaker 1: then we'll be right back. All right, we're switching gears here. 454 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 1: We're moving to the present. We're getting to Up and 455 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 1: Vanish season two, which just came out August twenty is 456 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:21,399 Speaker 1: when it was first the first episode came out. Um, 457 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:23,240 Speaker 1: I've listened to it. I hope you out there have 458 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,960 Speaker 1: also listened to it. So it focuses on the disappearance 459 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:32,680 Speaker 1: of Crystal and uh is it reason rising er reasinger, 460 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:36,879 Speaker 1: and so let's let's just get into exactly how this 461 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 1: case is different from season one tera Grinstead's case. There's 462 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 1: a lot of similarities, and there's a lot of differences 463 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 1: between season one and season two of Up and Vanished. 464 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,960 Speaker 1: The main differences are, well and see the one it 465 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:54,280 Speaker 1: was a small town, right, it was Oscilla, Georgia, South Georgia, 466 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,480 Speaker 1: kind of middle of nowhere, off the highway, a few 467 00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:01,880 Speaker 1: thousand residents, pretty small. In this case, we are even 468 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:05,080 Speaker 1: more remote. We are three and a half almost four 469 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:11,680 Speaker 1: hours southwest of Denver, and the closest store really that's 470 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 1: um a Walmart or you know, a chain restaurant is 471 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 1: over an hour drive away from here. And this town 472 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:21,840 Speaker 1: only has a hundred and fifty residents. Now, there's people 473 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 1: outside the town in this area called the Baka that 474 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:27,439 Speaker 1: has about a thousand or so more. But in the 475 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 1: town proper of Crestone, where this um missing person's case 476 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 1: is set, it's a very tiny place, and it's also 477 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 1: a very unique place. This is a place full of 478 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:44,200 Speaker 1: over fifteen different spiritual centers. It's a very holy place 479 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:48,960 Speaker 1: that attracts different proof seekers and uh people seeking enlightenment 480 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 1: see you have all these kind of interesting people here. 481 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,639 Speaker 1: And it's really the reason that Crystal came here was 482 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 1: for all the positive energy here and all the different 483 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:01,160 Speaker 1: um ways of life that are kind of clashing here 484 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,680 Speaker 1: together and working together as one. And that draws a 485 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 1: lot of people from all over the world here. And 486 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:09,840 Speaker 1: what I've found is that even though this is a 487 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:13,400 Speaker 1: very holy place, a very spiritual place in the mountains, 488 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 1: it's eight thousand feet elevation, it's a beautiful place. Even 489 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:22,200 Speaker 1: though it's all these great things, it's not immune to evil. 490 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 1: Just like everywhere else in the world, in Denver, in Atlanta, 491 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 1: in any big city, there are bad people there. And 492 00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:32,879 Speaker 1: just because this is a holy place in a special place, 493 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,800 Speaker 1: unfortunately it seems like it's not immune to bad people. 494 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:40,280 Speaker 1: And that's what we're exploring now, is, um, you know 495 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,720 Speaker 1: what happened to Crystal. We don't know. Uh, Crystal's family 496 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 1: doesn't know, law enforcement does not know. And so we're 497 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,480 Speaker 1: here in Creston. I'm actually here now on this pretty 498 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,560 Speaker 1: bad WiFi talking to you guys, But we're here to 499 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,360 Speaker 1: try to find out and we want to tell crystal story, 500 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,960 Speaker 1: um and memorialize her and you know, introduce a different, 501 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 1: unique person to the world, and that's what we're excited 502 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 1: to do. So, you know, beyond just you know, worrying 503 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 1: about people wanting to murder you in your sleep out 504 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:09,720 Speaker 1: where you are in this very rural area, there's other 505 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 1: things you have to worry about, like, you know, hostile wildlife. 506 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:16,800 Speaker 1: What's what's that like? So apparently the wildlife here is 507 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,440 Speaker 1: extremely abundant. I mean, I'm right now, I'm looking out 508 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:25,160 Speaker 1: the window and I just see huge mountaintops that are 509 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 1: just a few hundred yards away from me. I'm surrounded 510 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:34,440 Speaker 1: by mountains. We the people are the smaller population here. 511 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,719 Speaker 1: There are more animals here than there are people, and 512 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,120 Speaker 1: it's just an extremely vast place. I was talking to 513 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 1: one local named David, and he was telling me a 514 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 1: story about his friend Um who and we kind of 515 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 1: cover this an episode two. One of his friends, a 516 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:52,200 Speaker 1: bear broke into her car because she left food in 517 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 1: her car, and somehow the beer fummable the door and 518 00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:59,080 Speaker 1: hopped inside and then the door closed and then it locked, 519 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:01,360 Speaker 1: and so she comes out the next morning and she 520 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:05,680 Speaker 1: finds literally a raging bear eating the inside of her car. 521 00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:07,920 Speaker 1: And so somebody to go over there with a big 522 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 1: broom and put the door open and the bear runs off. 523 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:14,960 Speaker 1: And there's mountain lions here, there's wolves, there's all kinds 524 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 1: of animals that are really in your face here. And 525 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:23,520 Speaker 1: so obviously with with the terrain and the wildlife here, 526 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:26,320 Speaker 1: like it is one of the possibilities because we don't 527 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,160 Speaker 1: know what happened to Crystal. Is you know, did she 528 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:33,000 Speaker 1: go into the woods hiking and um, you know, have 529 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,680 Speaker 1: an encounter with an animal or is she um have 530 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:40,160 Speaker 1: an accident somewhere. There's tons of cliffs here, there's mind 531 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,560 Speaker 1: staffs here, There's a bunch of unexplored territory that's just 532 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 1: off the grid that would be very difficult to find 533 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:50,680 Speaker 1: someone in if you needed help. So there's tons of possibilities. 534 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:54,480 Speaker 1: It's not just this idea of there being bad people 535 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:58,040 Speaker 1: here or something which are everywhere. There's also this element 536 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,720 Speaker 1: of being in the wild and it's are you real here? 537 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:06,120 Speaker 1: It's it's also intriguing that you mentioned being in the 538 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 1: wild and living and off the grid sort of life 539 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:17,080 Speaker 1: here because from we what we understand aspects of this 540 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:20,760 Speaker 1: case may touch on, uh, something that we've talked about 541 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:24,800 Speaker 1: in the past on the show The Rainbow gatherings, this 542 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:31,560 Speaker 1: intentional recurring community wherein people I guess only trade or 543 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:35,240 Speaker 1: give things to each other. Also a place candidly or 544 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:40,000 Speaker 1: an environment candidly known for a being very open and 545 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:45,200 Speaker 1: welcoming to certain types of drugs. Definitely, there are tons 546 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:48,320 Speaker 1: of groups like that here. The Rainbow Gathering is just 547 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 1: one of them that comes through every now and then. 548 00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 1: There are countless different groups and religious groups and spiritual 549 00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:58,840 Speaker 1: centers and different beliefs, and you may even refer to 550 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,800 Speaker 1: some of them as cults. There's all kinds of different 551 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 1: groups here and they're kind of clashing, and it's this 552 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:09,600 Speaker 1: melting pot of the best of the best and the 553 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:13,040 Speaker 1: worst of the worst. And it just opened so many 554 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:17,160 Speaker 1: different possibilities to where Crystal may have gone or what 555 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:20,480 Speaker 1: may have happened to her. And so in episode two 556 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:24,240 Speaker 1: we do cover the Rainbow Gathering briefly because, uh, talking 557 00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:26,840 Speaker 1: to the Sheriff's department here, one of the early rumors 558 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:29,400 Speaker 1: was that someone said they solved her getting in this 559 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:31,840 Speaker 1: car with a group of people and they were going 560 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:35,120 Speaker 1: to the Rainbow Gathering. They reached out to the Rainbow Gathering, 561 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,920 Speaker 1: no one seeing Crystal, and it kind of fizzles out personally. 562 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,120 Speaker 1: I don't think she went there. I think something else 563 00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:44,640 Speaker 1: happened to her, but the possibility is still there, and 564 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,680 Speaker 1: if not the Rainbow gathering, maybe it's something else. There's 565 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,600 Speaker 1: tons of groups of people here who do weird stuff, 566 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,800 Speaker 1: and um, you know, not all of it is bad, 567 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:58,680 Speaker 1: but um, some of it includes drugs, and um it's 568 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:02,040 Speaker 1: sort of a rougher lifestyle that could potentially put someone 569 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:04,600 Speaker 1: in danger. And so there's so much to explore with 570 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:07,360 Speaker 1: the different types of people here and what they believe 571 00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 1: in and what they do. And you know, what's crystal. 572 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:13,520 Speaker 1: What's crystal associated with them? You know, we don't know, 573 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:16,360 Speaker 1: but that's one of the avenues that we're exploring. You know, 574 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:20,480 Speaker 1: there's this is completely off topic, but also in episode 575 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:26,120 Speaker 1: two you speak to someone named Candice, and Candice Candice 576 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:29,600 Speaker 1: is part of this thing that's called the UFO watch 577 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:32,120 Speaker 1: Tower that's out there in a valley somewhere. Can you 578 00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:34,960 Speaker 1: tell us a little bit about that. Oh yeah, it's funny. 579 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 1: I was actually at the UFO watch Tower yesterday and 580 00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,680 Speaker 1: talking to the other lady who works there, who's very nice. 581 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:44,400 Speaker 1: Her name is Judy. But there's just outside of town 582 00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 1: on the main Highway. There's a UFO watchtower, which is 583 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 1: literally exactly what you think it is, is a watchtower 584 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,160 Speaker 1: where you go and look for UFOs in the sky. 585 00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 1: And beyond just being this platform where you can have 586 00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:02,000 Speaker 1: this essentially unadulterated view of the sky, I it's also 587 00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:06,360 Speaker 1: a place that, according to them, is very holy and 588 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:10,400 Speaker 1: there's different portals here and all this sort of magical 589 00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:14,719 Speaker 1: stuff happens there. Right, So your first inclination is where 590 00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:17,400 Speaker 1: mine is at least. Yeah, right, you know, I believe 591 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:20,000 Speaker 1: in uphos. I've I've seen uphos once in my life, 592 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,719 Speaker 1: and I think that there's definitely odd things happening in 593 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:26,880 Speaker 1: the sky sometimes that isn't explained. But start talking about 594 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:30,040 Speaker 1: portals and this being some you know, they're mentioning that 595 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:34,080 Speaker 1: there's a space craft buried under this place, and they 596 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:36,960 Speaker 1: sounds kind of, you know, untrue to me, or on 597 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,600 Speaker 1: the least skeptical at first. And then she said, well, 598 00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:43,120 Speaker 1: pull out your pull out your phone and open your compass. 599 00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:46,640 Speaker 1: App I said okay, And so I started walking around 600 00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:49,160 Speaker 1: and she said that way and she pointed to the 601 00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:53,360 Speaker 1: left that's north, and then on my compass to the 602 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:55,239 Speaker 1: far right it said north. So I sort of walking 603 00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:59,759 Speaker 1: around in my compass literally was jumping around like crazy 604 00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:01,879 Speaker 1: it you know where we were or what was going on, 605 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:04,640 Speaker 1: and everyone's phone was doing it. So it wasn't a 606 00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:08,000 Speaker 1: magnetic thing. It's like a satellite thing or something. But 607 00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:11,600 Speaker 1: what maybe it's just a coincidence. But for whatever reason, 608 00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:15,080 Speaker 1: if you pull a compass out in this place, it 609 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:17,560 Speaker 1: doesn't know where you are, what's going on, or something 610 00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:21,120 Speaker 1: is interfering with it. So after I saw that happen 611 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,360 Speaker 1: with my own eyes, this was yesterday, Um, I opened 612 00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:26,880 Speaker 1: my own eyes up a little bit more. And UM, 613 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:31,239 Speaker 1: kind of I don't know if I believe everything, but 614 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:35,000 Speaker 1: I am open to it. People have a bunch of 615 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:38,000 Speaker 1: different beliefs here and it's not my job is tell 616 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:40,000 Speaker 1: them it's true or untrue. I just want to learn 617 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,239 Speaker 1: more about it. And um, I've seen some stuff in 618 00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:45,319 Speaker 1: my own eyes and that was one of them. But 619 00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:49,000 Speaker 1: that that's one of many places that are extremely unique 620 00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:53,520 Speaker 1: and um, really worth checking out. And actually funny little 621 00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:56,279 Speaker 1: side note this is I thought it was kind of funny. Um. 622 00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:58,400 Speaker 1: So we were there yesterday getting some more audio with 623 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,480 Speaker 1: the owner. It was just us there and a car 624 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:03,799 Speaker 1: pulls up with two people and it was like a 625 00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:08,400 Speaker 1: husband and wife and they pulled me aside and said, hey, 626 00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:12,319 Speaker 1: do you make a podcast? I was like, yeah, I do. 627 00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:16,080 Speaker 1: They said is it up and vanished and I said yes, 628 00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:19,840 Speaker 1: are you paying? Yes? And they said that's so crazy. 629 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:23,359 Speaker 1: Because as we were rolling up we just finished episode two. 630 00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:28,000 Speaker 1: I was like, this is absolutely insane right now? What 631 00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:32,399 Speaker 1: are the chances? So I guess, um, people are as 632 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,560 Speaker 1: interested in Crest Stone as I am, and um, it's 633 00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:37,680 Speaker 1: not all bad. There's a lot of good people here, 634 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:39,719 Speaker 1: a lot of interesting people here, and there's a lot 635 00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:41,839 Speaker 1: to learn here. But yeah, I thought that was so 636 00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:44,759 Speaker 1: strange that the only running I had yesterday was with 637 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:48,200 Speaker 1: a listener who had just heard on the podcast Candice 638 00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,799 Speaker 1: telling this story about UFOs and the sky. And then 639 00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:55,040 Speaker 1: I overhear them as I'm leaving Candice telling them the 640 00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:56,840 Speaker 1: same story that they heard on the podcast just a 641 00:36:56,840 --> 00:37:01,000 Speaker 1: few minutes earlier. All right, So there's one more just 642 00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:05,480 Speaker 1: connection that we have to ask you about, and that is, uh, 643 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,520 Speaker 1: this little Netflix documentary called Wild Wild Country and the 644 00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:13,320 Speaker 1: raj Nish movement is there? What is the connection between 645 00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:18,239 Speaker 1: that group of people and Crestone. So I was in 646 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:21,759 Speaker 1: a in a different interview. I was talking about a 647 00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:25,399 Speaker 1: guy who will emerge later on in the series, and 648 00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:28,240 Speaker 1: he's one of the people who attends the drum circles. 649 00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:32,719 Speaker 1: Very nice guy, very eclectic, very interesting background. His life 650 00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:35,480 Speaker 1: story is just would blow your mind. But as we 651 00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:38,520 Speaker 1: were in there in his um hobbit shaped house, he 652 00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:40,799 Speaker 1: called it a Hobbit house. It looks like it's straight 653 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:42,880 Speaker 1: out of Lord of the Rings um and he built 654 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,799 Speaker 1: it himself. Were in this hobbit house of his and 655 00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:48,960 Speaker 1: I see a picture of um raj Nish on the wall, 656 00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:52,400 Speaker 1: and so one of our producers asked him about it, 657 00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:55,800 Speaker 1: and he says that he was a part of that group. 658 00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:59,279 Speaker 1: He was there, and then after he left there, he 659 00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:03,080 Speaker 1: came to Crest Stone and you've been here ever since. Like, 660 00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:06,880 Speaker 1: that's unbelievable. And I had just finished um Wi Wild Country, 661 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:08,879 Speaker 1: which is amazing. You should check it out if you haven't. 662 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:12,000 Speaker 1: But um that's just gives you a little insight to 663 00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:14,439 Speaker 1: the kind of people that are here. It's the same 664 00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:17,800 Speaker 1: kind of people. It's a bunch of different beliefs and 665 00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:21,200 Speaker 1: everyone is very convicted about it, but they all work 666 00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:24,799 Speaker 1: together in unison and it's pretty bizarre to see, but 667 00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:28,080 Speaker 1: just everyone here has their own story. You do not 668 00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:30,520 Speaker 1: end up in Crestone. Crestone is at the very end 669 00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:32,879 Speaker 1: of the road. It You do not end up here 670 00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:36,760 Speaker 1: on accident. So everyone came here for a reason. So 671 00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:39,960 Speaker 1: the more people you talk to, the more interesting stories 672 00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:42,680 Speaker 1: you find, because everyone has a backstory. And we start 673 00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:45,120 Speaker 1: to hear in the early episodes of the new season 674 00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:48,319 Speaker 1: about one of the reasons people might have ended up there, 675 00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:52,040 Speaker 1: which is the kind of somewhat booming to my understanding, 676 00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:57,560 Speaker 1: drugs scene. Um and Crystal supposedly possibly had some involvement 677 00:38:57,600 --> 00:38:59,680 Speaker 1: in that world. Is there anything that you can tell 678 00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:01,960 Speaker 1: us about what might be coming next to some kind 679 00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:06,280 Speaker 1: of teaser. Don't want any spoilers, but this is fascinating stuff. Yeah. 680 00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:10,520 Speaker 1: So this being a very spiritual place, over the years, 681 00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:14,480 Speaker 1: it has attracted sort of a drug culture, and I 682 00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:16,880 Speaker 1: think it's in some way it's been perpetuated by the 683 00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:22,160 Speaker 1: legalization of marijuana. Hear personally marijuana use. That's totally fine, 684 00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:23,600 Speaker 1: that's not of big deal to me. It's shouldn't be 685 00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:26,520 Speaker 1: a big deal anywhere, and it's extremely legal here. No 686 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:28,799 Speaker 1: one even thinks her talks about it. There's you know, 687 00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:33,360 Speaker 1: weed stores everywhere here. But I think that UM being 688 00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:36,880 Speaker 1: so remote, it's not very policed here. There's not a 689 00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:40,280 Speaker 1: lot of police presence here. And so I think what's 690 00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:43,680 Speaker 1: happened over time is um what the sheriff refer us 691 00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:47,040 Speaker 1: to as trust fund kids, people UM kids that are 692 00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:50,279 Speaker 1: in their mid twenties, late thirties who have money and 693 00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:53,000 Speaker 1: don't work and just come out here and live off 694 00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:57,120 Speaker 1: bread and sort of kind of you know, linger around 695 00:39:57,239 --> 00:40:02,640 Speaker 1: town and cause disruptions and and just living wild out 696 00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:06,920 Speaker 1: here and being crazy. And there's been over the years, 697 00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:09,279 Speaker 1: the past couple of years, there's been more and more 698 00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:12,919 Speaker 1: people like this. And so what we're thinking is that 699 00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:17,520 Speaker 1: at some point along Crystal's journey here in Crestone, she 700 00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:20,080 Speaker 1: had to run in with these people and got closer 701 00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:24,160 Speaker 1: with them, and something in this friend circle may have happened. 702 00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:26,640 Speaker 1: And so as the series goes on and we start 703 00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:29,719 Speaker 1: kind of honing in on who and what are we 704 00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:34,319 Speaker 1: looking for here? Who did Crystal know here that knows 705 00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:37,880 Speaker 1: where she is? Because we are very confident that someone 706 00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:42,160 Speaker 1: here knows where Crystal is. And the question is why 707 00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:44,840 Speaker 1: aren't they saying anything about it? And isn't a murder 708 00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:52,000 Speaker 1: case dude, Okay, I'm in. I'm in. Well, like I said, 709 00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:55,480 Speaker 1: I just listened to season two today, so or excuse me, 710 00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:59,319 Speaker 1: episode two today and yes, I just want to go 711 00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:03,759 Speaker 1: to that watch are That's all. I want to love it. 712 00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:08,080 Speaker 1: And we hope that you listeners will take this as 713 00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:12,719 Speaker 1: a sign, whether directly from us or from uh some 714 00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:15,799 Speaker 1: extra treshot in the sky to check out Up and 715 00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:20,560 Speaker 1: Vanished season two. And just to be completely clear with 716 00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:25,600 Speaker 1: everyone listening, Matt Noel, super producer Paul and I also 717 00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:29,879 Speaker 1: don't know what's going to happen, correct, So so we 718 00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:34,959 Speaker 1: are we are experiencing this story along with you and pain. 719 00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:37,680 Speaker 1: We want to thank you so much for giving us 720 00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:41,880 Speaker 1: this first hand look behind the scenes of Up and Vanished, 721 00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:45,520 Speaker 1: of Atlanta Monster, and a little bit of a prescient 722 00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:50,040 Speaker 1: look at Up and Vanished season two. But these are 723 00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:54,319 Speaker 1: these are some huge projects that you have done with 724 00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:58,719 Speaker 1: Tenderfoot TV, which is the larger entity at work here. 725 00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:02,279 Speaker 1: Could you tell our listeners where they can go to 726 00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:06,640 Speaker 1: learn more about upcoming projects from Tenderfoot Sure, our company 727 00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:10,560 Speaker 1: website is tenderfoot dot tv. As far as up in vascoes, 728 00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:13,640 Speaker 1: you can go up in vantis dot com. We're currently 729 00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:16,319 Speaker 1: in season two. There's been two episodes released so far. 730 00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:20,040 Speaker 1: We're playing on going twelve episodes, but also sprinkling in 731 00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:23,200 Speaker 1: a few bonus episodes that are really, in my eyes, 732 00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:26,200 Speaker 1: uh not even bonus episodes. There will be people that 733 00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:30,040 Speaker 1: you meet along this journey that you may find very interesting, 734 00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:32,440 Speaker 1: and we found them pretty interesting as well. So some 735 00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:35,200 Speaker 1: of the side episodes will be sort of on these 736 00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:38,160 Speaker 1: different characters we run into and all of the all 737 00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:42,680 Speaker 1: the strange ways they intersect into Crystal's life. But yes, 738 00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:45,359 Speaker 1: all the social media animals are up and vanished. I'll 739 00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:47,839 Speaker 1: follow me. It's just Paint, Lindsay. But um yeah, we're 740 00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:51,200 Speaker 1: excited about season two and hope to have a positive 741 00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:54,160 Speaker 1: result and at the very least be able to memorialize 742 00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:57,560 Speaker 1: Crystal and tell her story. Awesome, Thank you so much, Paint. 743 00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:00,479 Speaker 1: We all look forward to the journey that we're gonna 744 00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:04,480 Speaker 1: take with you as you take us there. Agreed. Agreed. 745 00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:07,520 Speaker 1: And as a reminder, if you, for some reason to 746 00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:11,440 Speaker 1: have not listened to Atlanta Monster yet, you can listen 747 00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:16,239 Speaker 1: to the entire thing today. It is very much binge worthy. 748 00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:20,000 Speaker 1: You can also find every single show that we have 749 00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:22,680 Speaker 1: ever done on our website Stuff they don't want you 750 00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:26,040 Speaker 1: to know dot com. You can find us on Instagram, Facebook, 751 00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:28,360 Speaker 1: and Twitter. We don't want to have to do the 752 00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:32,080 Speaker 1: whole rundown there. We did take a note out of 753 00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:34,919 Speaker 1: your book, pain, and we have a call in number now. 754 00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:39,279 Speaker 1: It's one eight three three s t d wy t 755 00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:42,520 Speaker 1: K and you can leave us a voicemail a message 756 00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:44,640 Speaker 1: and you might be on the air very soon. So 757 00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:48,239 Speaker 1: so do that and let us know what. Thanks for 758 00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:51,080 Speaker 1: the thanks for the tip man uh and listeners, let 759 00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:55,200 Speaker 1: us know. Let us know what you think might be 760 00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:59,400 Speaker 1: happening and up and vanished season two again. We we 761 00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:04,440 Speaker 1: don't know. We're honestly asking. We don't have any spoilers. Yeah, yeah, 762 00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:11,160 Speaker 1: we don't have any spoilers, all right, yeah, And if 763 00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:13,799 Speaker 1: all that fails, if you if you don't really care 764 00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:16,640 Speaker 1: for social media brew ha ha, we of all people 765 00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:19,759 Speaker 1: get it, you can email us directly. We are conspiracy 766 00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:41,560 Speaker 1: at how stuff Works dot com