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Speaker 1: Josh wasa schiffer. Let me tell you something. Do you

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Speaker 1: remember jawls too?

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Speaker 2: Darn yes, yes, I am of a certain age where

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Speaker 2: there are decades that I do remember. Yes.

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Speaker 3: Do you remember when it came on the screen and

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Speaker 3: it said, just when you thought it was safe to

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Speaker 3: go back in the water.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, my dear, it is never safe. It is never, ever,

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Speaker 2: ever safe. I assure you, I've seen the moot.

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Speaker 1: That is how I feel.

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Speaker 3: Just when I thought it was safe to go back

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Speaker 3: in a courtroom.

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Speaker 1: Karen Reid, Karen Reid, Karen Reid.

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Speaker 2: Hey, at least it's it's a case. At least it's

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Speaker 2: not just some of the conjecturey yelly screaming, you know,

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Speaker 2: she in gasping corpse of the cottage industry that was

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Speaker 2: Karen Reid's initial trials. This is a legitimate Karen Reid's story.

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Speaker 3: Okay, there's rumors of white flags being way, tell us

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Speaker 3: what in the world the prosecution is doing.

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Speaker 2: Well, the prosecution's kind of giving up the ghost on

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Speaker 2: some of these things that they were trying to protect,

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Speaker 2: namely these side bars where sidebars, and we watched these

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Speaker 2: trials are where the litigants and sometimes are always the

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Speaker 2: lawyers and sometimes the litigants actually go up to the

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Speaker 2: bench and have a off the wreck or not off

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Speaker 2: the record, have a confidential discussion with the bench about

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Speaker 2: something going on, most often that they're trying to hide

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Speaker 2: from the jury or the audience, or for whatever reason

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Speaker 2: that they want embarrassment, whatever, whatever, whatever. Very often bench

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Speaker 2: conferences are never recorded in several trials, and they're judges

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Speaker 2: that have different personal rules about bench conferences. But in

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Speaker 2: this case and more high profile cases, stenographers are brought

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Speaker 2: and you can always request judge, I'd like to have

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Speaker 2: the bench conferences taken down for appeals. So in this

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Speaker 2: case they were, and during these the permutations of these

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Speaker 2: various appeals, investigations, and new civil cases, the state had

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Speaker 2: objected to releasing these confidential conversations. There's not really a

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Speaker 2: legal reason. It's more an embarrassment thing. You know, you

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Speaker 2: don't want to, you know, show everybody your cards necessarily

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Speaker 2: show everybody kind of more of the intimate story. But

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Speaker 2: after objecting, I think they kind of saw that, well,

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Speaker 2: we can spend a lot of time and effort fighting this,

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Speaker 2: or we can just give up the goat. They just

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Speaker 2: gave up the ghost, and they said, all right, the

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Speaker 2: moss is growing very slowly because the rock is rolling

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Speaker 2: downhill very very quickly.

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Speaker 3: So what do you think it's gonna end up being it?

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Speaker 3: I mean, do you think this is going to change everything?

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Speaker 2: I think it's going to give a lot more grist

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Speaker 2: to the mill about talking. You know, there were so

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Speaker 2: many wild conspiracy theories. There were so many grand pronouncements

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Speaker 2: from every single commentator out there about Oh, this is what,

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Speaker 2: this is, what's happening in the back. Oh that's because

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Speaker 2: this agency is led by this person who's met and

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Speaker 2: guess what. Some of that stuff may absolutely be true,

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Speaker 2: but we just you know, threw darts at it during

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Speaker 2: the trials. And I really consumed a vast amount of

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Speaker 2: media during these trials. It was almost a job to

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Speaker 2: itself just paying attention because there weren't just a couple

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Speaker 2: people loudly discussing it that mattered. There were a lot

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Speaker 2: of people in my particular interest being the intersection of

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Speaker 2: crime and politics and kind of culture. This was a

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Speaker 2: huge deal, and we're going to get a much more

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Speaker 2: clear picture of what they want are actually discussing, and

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Speaker 2: that will be illuminating. We'll learn a little bit more

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Speaker 2: about the relationship between Judge Canone and the lawyers. The

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Speaker 2: judge obviously had a demeanor from the bench. That demeanor

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Speaker 2: can be really different when they're having the Hey, no

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Speaker 2: one else can hear us. Let's come on, guys, let's talk.

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Speaker 2: It's real here. It's an intimate in exchange. So seeing

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Speaker 2: that then relegated to new Courier font in a deposition

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Speaker 2: that that's a whole nother science because really reading something

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Speaker 2: on paper versus experience in real life are vastly different exercises.

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Speaker 3: And I'll tell you what else is different for people.

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Speaker 3: When you're little, you think, okay, court is the good

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Speaker 3: guy versus the bad guy.

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Speaker 1: Well, when you go through a.

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Speaker 3: Trial like Karen Reid, and then you're like, is the

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Speaker 3: good guy a bad guy? Is the bad guy a

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Speaker 3: good guy or at least an innocent guy?

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Speaker 2: Never meet your heroes, Never.

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Speaker 1: Meet your heroes.

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Speaker 3: I'm just telling you this case for me sidebars excluded.

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Speaker 3: It started out as one thing, it became another thing,

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Speaker 3: it became a ridiculous thing, and then it became a

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Speaker 3: non factor thing because people kept asking me, do you

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Speaker 3: think she did it?

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Speaker 1: Do you think she didn't do it?

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Speaker 3: And my answer was almost always it doesn't matter. Yeah, sadly,

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Speaker 3: it doesn't matter. They're never going to be able to

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Speaker 3: prove it because how badly.

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Speaker 2: That's the point people pick up what Cheryl's putting down.

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Speaker 2: The facts are what the facts are, and you can

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Speaker 2: believe all kinds of stuff, none of that matter. What

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Speaker 2: can the state put forward in a clean way that

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Speaker 2: a jury's going to agree with and go bingo, that's

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Speaker 2: a conviction. And when we're talking about how you charge

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Speaker 2: cases and when that's one of the most difficult decisions

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Speaker 2: that a prosecutor makes is determining what level the state

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Speaker 2: should stop the ask for because there's really there's a

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Speaker 2: more serious charge. It goes all the way until you

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Speaker 2: got dead bodies, and you can add more. But when

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Speaker 2: you're exercising your discretion in the art form of prosecution

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Speaker 2: is when you are picking the right charges that are

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Speaker 2: going to be effective not just at trial but in

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Speaker 2: pretrial negotiations. And that can mean adding stuff you know

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Speaker 2: you may not be able to prove eventually, but it's

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Speaker 2: being included because it's going to develop the rest of

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Speaker 2: your case through the negotiations.

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Speaker 3: And you are a brilliant defense attorney. Sometimes you may

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Speaker 3: know somebody probably did what they're being accused of, but

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Speaker 3: you've got to get creative, you know, like the old

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Speaker 3: joke about the guy that killed his parents and then

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Speaker 3: his attorney was like, Judge, he's an orphan, like you

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Speaker 3: got you gotta give him a break. I mean, you

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Speaker 3: gotta sometimes get you work.

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Speaker 2: With what you've got. It's you know, people always tell me.

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Speaker 2: It's like, oh, and the facts that listen half the

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Speaker 2: time to and people are shocking about facts don't matter.

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Speaker 2: Why what can the state prove if you come in

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Speaker 2: and it's a he said, she said, if the officer

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Speaker 2: didn't see squat Diddley to the end man that that

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Speaker 2: I know, you're gonna tell me all kinds of horrible

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Speaker 2: stuff happen. Did the cops see any of that? Are

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Speaker 2: they gonna get any testimony about any of that? Or

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Speaker 2: is the testimony gonna be valid? Okay, then none of

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Speaker 2: that stuff matters because it ain't It ain't part of

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Speaker 2: our problem. Our problem is what can the state present?

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Speaker 2: What charge can they carry? Because at the end of

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Speaker 2: a trial, I'm gonna tell Durr to follow the judge's direction,

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Speaker 2: and if the states carried their burden. You're gonna get

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Speaker 2: convicted because I'm gonna argue the state failed to carry

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Speaker 2: their burden more times than not. That burden issue becomes

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Speaker 2: more and more as trials continue to evolve in public

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Speaker 2: justice and the justice practice is in front of the

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Speaker 2: public more, that state burden crystallizes more and more as

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Speaker 2: the key function of the criminal justice system. Because we've

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Speaker 2: seen the videos on TV. We've seen the dead bodies,

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Speaker 2: We've seen the horribleness, like this little girl that no

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Speaker 2: one can find, no one knows where she is. Her

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Speaker 2: mom addresses her and wigs and drives her around and

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Speaker 2: won't saying to anybody. Then there's this wacky friend for

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Speaker 2: decades she holds up with a box cutter. But then

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Speaker 2: that really wasn't a case. Was that just an end

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Speaker 2: around to get her to talk about the kid. That's

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Speaker 2: what I told Vinni this week. And no, no, no,

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Speaker 2: they wouldn't create something that compu Oh yeah, they would.

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Speaker 2: They lean on the guy and go, hey, listen, help

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Speaker 2: us with this because we're trying to figure out this kid.

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Speaker 2: And otherwise you're going to be a suspect because you know,

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Speaker 2: pretty easy to drum up something pretty dumb And that's

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Speaker 2: exactly what it was. Turned out to be something pretty dumb.

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Speaker 2: Now that she's out, they ain't got squat Diddley on her.

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Speaker 1: And it turned out to be something pretty dumb.

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Speaker 3: And you know you've got like you're saying, a little

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Speaker 3: girl in wigs, that's not just a parade of flags.

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Speaker 2: Whoa? And this was the week of creep factorship, Like seriously, Cheryl,

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Speaker 2: this week had creep factor on eleven between that little girl,

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Speaker 2: the the developments in the Dave D four DVD at

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Speaker 2: whatever his name is, and the last where the just

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Speaker 2: nutshell is he is now officially a suspect, still trying

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Speaker 2: to figure out exactly what happened to her, but it's

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Speaker 2: kind of closing in on it may not be a

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Speaker 2: murder charge, but there's going to be some charges.

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Speaker 3: Let me let me tell you something, you know, the

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Speaker 3: tattoo in the center of his forehead. I want to

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Speaker 3: be really clear with what I'm about to say. I'm

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Speaker 3: going to say two things.

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Speaker 1: I have no empirical study, I have no data.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I got forty something years experience, and I will

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Speaker 3: tell you it's.

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Speaker 2: A lay opinion. It's a lay.

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Speaker 3: It's a lay opinion. Thank you, Joshua Schiffer. It's a

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Speaker 3: lay opinion. When you decide your arms, your legs, your back,

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Speaker 3: your fanny, you've had enough, you are now going to

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Speaker 3: tattoo your face.

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Speaker 1: A change has happened with you. I think this is a.

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Speaker 3: Clear indicator that every facet of your personality has now shifted,

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Speaker 3: and law enforcement might want to consider you are now violent.

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Speaker 3: So the second thing I want to say, that's the

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Speaker 3: first thing. The second thing is, please don't email me

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Speaker 3: and try to change my mind.

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Speaker 1: You're not going to. I got forty years of examples

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Speaker 1: I can give y'all.

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Speaker 3: I love you. I do believe in self expression. And

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Speaker 3: I'm not talking about cultural, tribal none of that. I'm

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Speaker 3: talking about somebody that, out of the blue has decided

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Speaker 3: to put something on their face.

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Speaker 2: When I was raised, my childhood phone number was nine

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Speaker 2: seven seven five five seven three. My mother and father's

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Speaker 2: childhood phone numbers was like a word followed by three

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Speaker 2: digits because they were raised on like party lines.

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Speaker 1: That's right.

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Speaker 2: When I was a kid, they destroyed all of our

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Speaker 2: little brains by going you now need to dial ten digits,

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Speaker 2: and the world freaked out, freaked out, absolutely. What then,

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Speaker 2: Oh my lord, they took the people outside of Atlanta

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Speaker 2: and made them seven seven o people instead of four

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Speaker 2: or four people, And you would have thought the world

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Speaker 2: was ending. It was insane. There were going to be

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Speaker 2: riots in the street. Now there's a new area code. Shoot,

202
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Speaker 2: there's some area codes that are in Georgia. You're like,

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Speaker 2: where isn't that so getting your area code tattooed on

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Speaker 2: your forehead or fate? Man? That stuff changes, dude, Like

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Speaker 2: what happens if we stop using phone numbers like that

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Speaker 2: and it becomes all QR codes? And please do not

207
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Speaker 2: get a QR code on you. That's going to stretch.

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Speaker 2: There's no way that's going to stay accurate your skew number.

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Speaker 2: You're gonna end up walking through the grocery store. Actually

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Speaker 2: you ringing up like some bananas or something and be like,

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Speaker 2: I didn't buy that, and they're like, I'm sorry, Sarah,

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Speaker 2: we inadvertently scanned your wrinkley ass QR code enjoying the bananas. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and listen, I love personal expression. I man, I had

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Speaker 2: an earring in East Cobb. Oh my lord, that was

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Speaker 2: like literally a cursing god to his face at the time.

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Speaker 2: I get it.

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Speaker 1: Listen, I'm all for it too.

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Speaker 3: I'm just telling you there are votes in law enforcement

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Speaker 3: that is going to take a look at that and

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Speaker 3: thank you're violent.

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Speaker 2: Judge Roy Roberts. Yeah, you have a face tattoo. That's

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Speaker 2: probably cause I've read a bunch of articles about gangster

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Speaker 2: and they all have face tattoos. You have face tattoos.

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Speaker 2: You're a gangs drama judge, and man that you aren't

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Speaker 2: gonna convince him otherwise. He was an old man who

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Speaker 2: was like I've seen everybody that I've ever met with

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Speaker 2: a face tattoo was a hardcore gangst. I remember watching

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Speaker 2: somebody argue about teardrops with him, which tear drops for

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Speaker 2: a brief period of time meant something consistent. Then everybody

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Speaker 2: decided to get teardrops and then change the tear drops,

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Speaker 2: So now a teardrop doesn't mean anything, even though probably

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Speaker 2: in some places will still get you stabbed to death. Probably. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: there are some tattoos you should not be wearing. I remember, guys,

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Speaker 2: for a while, we're getting a spider web, and I'm like,

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Speaker 2: there are a couple of prisons. You put a spider

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Speaker 2: web on, that means you've done a certain amount of time,

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Speaker 2: and if you have not done that time, it is

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Speaker 2: very disrespectful to all of them for you to advertise that,

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Speaker 2: and they will remove your tattoo for you.

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Speaker 3: Joshua, Just like you said, there's an old judge that

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Speaker 3: he's only going to understand one thing. There's some old

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Speaker 3: gangsters that are going to understand one thing. And you

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Speaker 3: show up with a double lightning bolt and a tear

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Speaker 3: drop and a don't.

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Speaker 2: You dish with them? Old one percent as old air man.

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Speaker 2: They will kill They don't care, they don't care killing you.

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Speaker 2: Oh my God, having you beat half to death because

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Speaker 2: you're a poser that God is the wrong. Oh my Lord,

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Speaker 2: in a heartbeat.

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Speaker 3: So the face tattoo, when David decides, hey, I'm on

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Speaker 3: tattoo the center of my face, that's a flag. So

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Speaker 3: I don't know when the violence started, if he is responsible,

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Speaker 3: he allegedly now is the number one suspect. I think

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Speaker 3: he's been the only suspect the whole time. I think

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Speaker 3: you and I have covered it extensively, and our position

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Speaker 3: is very clear. You don't quit a world tour because

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Speaker 3: you have to quote, go talk to law enforcement if

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Speaker 3: you're an innocent person.

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Speaker 1: That's an hour I and a half Max.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he is dealing with business. Well he has lawyered up.

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Speaker 2: I forget who it was. I saw you had somebody good.

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Speaker 2: And there's going to be no talking, no sharing, sit down,

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Speaker 2: shut up. You know, mind your p's and q's. And

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Speaker 2: it's all as to the investigation. And let's see how

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Speaker 2: far an investigation they can get, whether it's going to

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Speaker 2: be live humans that they got to go track down

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Speaker 2: a little bit more difficult than getting stuff like the

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Speaker 2: surveillance photos where they've gotten her in different places, and

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Speaker 2: of course the wonderfulness that is the press. They've done

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Speaker 2: an enormous amount of background digging about who was, what

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Speaker 2: to wear to whom, and who's got pictures of what.

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Speaker 2: It'll be very interesting to see what surfaces as the

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Speaker 2: investigation takes place. With the knowledge of understanding that something

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Speaker 2: this high profile, they are going to do their best

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Speaker 2: to bullet proof it before they present anything. And that's

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Speaker 2: something that you hope they do well. There is a

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Speaker 2: long tradition about things not being done very well. I

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Speaker 2: lock hernry. I was a horrible child. I was a monster.

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Speaker 1: I don't believe that I was distracted.

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Speaker 2: Oh I was angry. Oh, I was. We're gonna get

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Speaker 2: doctor Gail, my mom. She'll come on. You can ask

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Speaker 2: her all the questions you want. She will start by

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Speaker 2: telling you about the first crime I probably committed. I

284
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Speaker 2: was about two, and my best friend Kimmy, we were

285
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Speaker 2: the same age, and we we were two, so clearly

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Speaker 2: advanced and mature. And they found me and her sands

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Speaker 2: diapers rolling around in the backyard. Uh. And that story

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Speaker 2: was told to every single girl I ever brought home

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Speaker 2: to my house. Ever, that that was the beginning of

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Speaker 2: my nefariousness. I punched walls. Oh, I was such an

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Speaker 2: angry kid.

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Speaker 1: Up, I'm making notes.

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Speaker 2: Oh, and then you know my my college nickname was animal.

294
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Speaker 2: It was it was. There's there's some stories there. We

295
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Speaker 2: will get into that at some special occasion. But yeah, no,

296
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Speaker 2: the David DVD four D whatever, jaws, Uh, the face tattoo,

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Speaker 2: it's not going to be dispositive on his case. But

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Speaker 2: one of the things we're always counseling with clients is

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Speaker 2: how do you deal with these fair or unfair cultural

300
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Speaker 2: assumptions from jurors? Because I tell you what, explaining your

301
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Speaker 2: face tattoo in a beneficial way to square jurors from

302
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Speaker 2: suburban Atlanta. Man, there's a reach there because that person

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Speaker 2: who is now sitting in judgment of you gets to

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Speaker 2: think about the decisions that led you to put, you know,

305
00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:58,520
Speaker 2: money over bees or whatever, you know, in such a

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Speaker 2: prominent place. And there's trials that are basically made of

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00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:07,320
Speaker 2: a part of them. It's just the tattoo exhibition where

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00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:10,040
Speaker 2: they will use the tattoo as an end around for

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Speaker 2: character evidence, and they'll use it for identity or there's

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Speaker 2: all kinds of arguments that you can make. But trust me,

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Speaker 2: you show enough tattoos to enough scared jurors, they tend

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Speaker 2: to get frightened about them.

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Speaker 3: And you have a difficult job because you can say, hey,

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Speaker 3: wear a turtleneck to cover what's on your neck. Let's

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Speaker 3: put a little makeup in the center of your forehead.

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Speaker 3: But then they're going to look at that album cover

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Speaker 3: and then look back at him. Why are you hiding

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Speaker 3: it if it's self expression.

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Speaker 2: It's one of my problems with this no raps lyrics law,

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Speaker 2: which I think is an abhorrent violation of the sixth Amendment.

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Speaker 2: And if a DA wants to use rap lyrics, because

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Speaker 2: that person's saying them. They should, and if you sang lyrics,

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Speaker 2: they should to be able to be used against you

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Speaker 2: because you can get up and testify why you sing it.

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Speaker 2: And if you're smart enough to write I shot the

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Speaker 2: sheriff and then sell millions of albums, that's wonderful. If

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Speaker 2: you're dumb enough to say I shot Darryl Thompson on

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Speaker 2: Thursday the fourteenth, I'm the guy in the silver Dodge Charger.

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Speaker 2: It was near the Kroger. That's me going feet.

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Speaker 1: Feet man, it was near the murder Kroger.

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Speaker 2: Kroger on punt man. I'm sorry that should be used

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Speaker 2: against you in your prosecution. And that was really the

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00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:27,199
Speaker 2: argument that people are wanting to get ugly about it.

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Speaker 2: But that was the argument during YSL about some of

335
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Speaker 2: these rap lyrics because you've got people like r Kelly

336
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Speaker 2: who are proven Purian monsters man after his convictions and

337
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:43,200
Speaker 2: knowing what we know, listening to the songs kind of

338
00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:48,639
Speaker 2: land a little bit differently. Yeah, Pete Diddy, man, I

339
00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:51,000
Speaker 2: ain't hearing him on the radio nearly as much, even

340
00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:53,520
Speaker 2: though I've said a thousand times he roars back and

341
00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:55,240
Speaker 2: makes more money than ever. It's just going to be

342
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Speaker 2: in like ten years old man Diddy like seventy two

343
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Speaker 2: year old Diddy goes on the speakers circuit makes trillion dollars.

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Speaker 2: I'm I'm just telling you he's he's got a lot

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00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:10,480
Speaker 2: of hustle, even though I have major problems with the

346
00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:16,119
Speaker 2: did stir. But you know, if you're going to say

347
00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:19,360
Speaker 2: certain things, you need to stand up for him. That's

348
00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:22,880
Speaker 2: an American tradition, just like the Monkey Scopes man trial.

349
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Speaker 2: If you're gonna teach evolution, you have to stand up

350
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Speaker 2: and defend it. If if you're gonna do pornography and

351
00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:34,600
Speaker 2: you go look at the Larry Flint trials. Larry Flint

352
00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:37,960
Speaker 2: showed up in person in Lawrenceville, Georgia to tell a

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Speaker 2: whole bunch of the most conservative Georgians in the universe

354
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Speaker 2: why you were allowed to make Lenny Bruce look like

355
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Speaker 2: a kindergarten.

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Speaker 3: You're right, that happened. And here's the thing I agree

357
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Speaker 3: with you. I also think not only sixth Amendment. To me,

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Speaker 3: it's the first Amendment issue.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I.

360
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Speaker 3: Mean singing and say what you won't And it doesn't

361
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Speaker 3: have to be true. Elvis didn't have to wear blue

362
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Speaker 3: swede shoes. He can still sing about it. You know,

363
00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:04,280
Speaker 3: so I mean Riba. You know, she didn't have to

364
00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:06,679
Speaker 3: go to town to make money with man. It's a song,

365
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Speaker 3: for heaven's sakes.

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Speaker 2: It's such a well intentioned but unbelievably dumb idea to

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Speaker 2: regulate that in a trial set. And that's the kind

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00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:18,280
Speaker 2: of stuff that keeps lawyers up at night, because every

369
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:22,640
Speaker 2: rule can be used in an unfair way. It appears

370
00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:25,320
Speaker 2: like that's just a function of a rule. If you

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00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:29,000
Speaker 2: establish something that firm, people are going to use it

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Speaker 2: to leverage. And sometimes the leverage is something that you

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Speaker 2: really like. Sometimes the leverage is really bad. We're seeing

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Speaker 2: that with the death penalty case, that one that was

375
00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:42,760
Speaker 2: getting argued about this week, the Bobo case, where the

376
00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:46,440
Speaker 2: da did exactly what DA's were supposed to do. Back then,

377
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:50,880
Speaker 2: you had three people, you had death penalty quality stuff.

378
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,680
Speaker 2: You use the death penalty squeeze all three of them.

379
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Speaker 2: Problem is, there were some issues with the results of

380
00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:03,320
Speaker 2: using the death penalty to extract improper confessions, and now

381
00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:08,560
Speaker 2: it delegitimizes an otherwise really strong prosecution by bringing up

382
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:12,639
Speaker 2: the fact that, hey, this guy may have absolutely just

383
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:16,000
Speaker 2: lied his pants off and told the exact same memorized

384
00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:20,240
Speaker 2: story this many times because you tried to use the

385
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:24,520
Speaker 2: death penalty in an inappropriate to rest creating manner. And

386
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:29,879
Speaker 2: that's oh man, that was some crazy, crazy stuff. But

387
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:33,960
Speaker 2: the rules are always going to be used to leverage people,

388
00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:37,360
Speaker 2: and so let's not create unnecessary rules.

389
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Speaker 1: So you mentioned creep factor.

390
00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:43,280
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, we got to hit this one before we're done.

391
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:47,239
Speaker 3: Can we please talk about the carnival cruise and the

392
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:48,720
Speaker 3: stamp children.

393
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Speaker 2: This one is the parental nightmare of nightmares. You know.

394
00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:59,639
Speaker 2: I do not do family law. That was a rule.

395
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:03,479
Speaker 2: I've done literally one divorce. It was lesbians. They were

396
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:06,440
Speaker 2: in the military. Kind of did it for it's in giggles.

397
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:09,560
Speaker 2: It was kind of funny. But I do not do

398
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:11,560
Speaker 2: family law. I'll tell you're going to prison. I'm telling

399
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:13,640
Speaker 2: you what's going on with your kids. Lawyers that get

400
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:16,480
Speaker 2: shot to death. Almost all family lawyers, man, those people

401
00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:19,640
Speaker 2: deal with stuff that is just mind blown. And that's

402
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:23,280
Speaker 2: because of cases like this, where the ultra nutshell is

403
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:28,280
Speaker 2: there is a married couple that between them share multiple

404
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:35,040
Speaker 2: kids and step kids. The mom's eldest child is a

405
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:39,120
Speaker 2: beautiful eighteen year old cheerleader, life of the party, whole

406
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:45,400
Speaker 2: world going for her. The dad's step kids include a

407
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,160
Speaker 2: sixteen and an eleven year old or twelve or something

408
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:50,480
Speaker 2: like that. There were some other kids as well, but

409
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:55,080
Speaker 2: they all go on a cruise, and there had been

410
00:23:55,200 --> 00:24:01,159
Speaker 2: complaints from the eighteen year old's father about what was

411
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,960
Speaker 2: happening in this family and the opportunity for abuse between

412
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 2: the sixteen year old step brother and the eighteen year

413
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:12,960
Speaker 2: old beautiful cheerleader, and inappropriate stuff was getting alleged in

414
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 2: a civil filing, involved in a custody case, and then

415
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:23,119
Speaker 2: in probably international waters on a cruise ship. It appears

416
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 2: and has been basically said by the press, so I

417
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:28,560
Speaker 2: don't feel like I'm talking out of school, that the

418
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:34,440
Speaker 2: sixteen year old child arguably murdered his eighteen year old

419
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:39,240
Speaker 2: stepsister through a chokehold and then put her under the

420
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:42,359
Speaker 2: bed and slept there and then no one had seen

421
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:46,800
Speaker 2: her and basically killed his older stepsister, which then brings

422
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 2: up a whole discussion that's going on about the improper

423
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:56,080
Speaker 2: characterization and over sexualization of the blended family thing, which

424
00:24:56,119 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 2: is a cultural issue that is downright frightening, and that

425
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:04,160
Speaker 2: is happening from another part of my universe. Because I've

426
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,680
Speaker 2: done some work in the most period of dark corners

427
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:12,680
Speaker 2: in some First Amendment and adult entertainment where the step

428
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 2: relationship taboo is of big economic value in the kind

429
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:23,480
Speaker 2: of purient materials that are produced and sold to all

430
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:28,960
Speaker 2: of our teenage kids. And man, this one's gonna unpeck

431
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 2: really horribly.

432
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:35,119
Speaker 3: And one thing, when it first came out, they were saying,

433
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:37,919
Speaker 3: you know, they don't know if it's a homicide, but

434
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 3: she's covered in life vest like somebody tried to hide her.

435
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 2: I can see the scene based off just a little

436
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 2: bit that was released. If you've been on a cruise

437
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 2: and you've got that bed, the bedroom had one bed

438
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:51,320
Speaker 2: and a pair of bunk beds. I mean, I can

439
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 2: see it in my eyes. Under that main bed, you

440
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 2: pull the curtain to the side or tilted up, it's

441
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 2: your suitcase storage and your life vests. And when you

442
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 2: unpack your suitcase you stick it under there. Because cruise

443
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:08,479
Speaker 2: ship premium storage is at a premium. So right before

444
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 2: actually Cheryl and I are recording, this information got released

445
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:14,360
Speaker 2: that the cause of death does appear to be an

446
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,880
Speaker 2: arm bar that's being reported by the New York Post,

447
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 2: and that thankfully it does not appear that there was

448
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:27,920
Speaker 2: any sexual assault or it. But again, investigation ongoing. Let's

449
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 2: hope that that holds up. But absolutely a nightmare because

450
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:35,679
Speaker 2: we've got this non custodial father of an eighteen year

451
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:41,280
Speaker 2: old terrified about what the stepchild of his exes or sorry,

452
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 2: his ex's new stepchild might do to his daughter. And

453
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:50,040
Speaker 2: that gives me willies to the tips of the toes. Yep,

454
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 2: I got a daughter. I got a lot of friends

455
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 2: with daughters. I was also a boy. I also know

456
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 2: how horrible boys are. I'm sorry, boys, I'm not ripping

457
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 2: off the band aid. They knew already how horrible you are,

458
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:06,920
Speaker 2: many of the married men. And it's it really that

459
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 2: one that twists the knife.

460
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 3: And you know, they say that her boyfriend has come

461
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 3: forward and said, even when he was facetiming her, he

462
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 3: saw what he saw as far as the step mother

463
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,400
Speaker 3: trying to lay on top of her, so it could

464
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:27,880
Speaker 3: be a situation was she going to tell?

465
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:30,199
Speaker 1: Did he stop her from telling?

466
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:36,959
Speaker 2: My conspiracy theory brain goes through all of those extortiony concepts,

467
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:43,159
Speaker 2: refusal concept There's just there's so many horrific things and

468
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,399
Speaker 2: I just I'm trying not to think about it. Because

469
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 2: really that that's going to get real, real dark, real quick.

470
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:55,679
Speaker 3: And they have blown up four families conservatively, I mean

471
00:27:55,720 --> 00:28:00,159
Speaker 3: the ripple effects. The boyfriends, the girlfriends, the classmates, the

472
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 3: grandparents are unbelievably happy.

473
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:05,119
Speaker 2: Woman was going to join the military like she she

474
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:10,399
Speaker 2: had everything going for. Uh. Just that that that one

475
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 2: that sticks with you.

476
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,920
Speaker 3: Agreed, well, as always, I would love for you to

477
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:20,119
Speaker 3: take us out, I know, but I would love for

478
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 3: you to take us out.

479
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:22,399
Speaker 1: On a positive.

480
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:29,880
Speaker 2: Note, Yeah, I'll do this, remember every single day and

481
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:35,480
Speaker 2: live it fully because your journey is yours and yours alone,

482
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 2: and you should really go love something, even if it's you,

483
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 2: because you never know when that journey can get cut

484
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 2: short to do no fault of your own, or you

485
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 2: can be an idiot like Josh and roll his ATV

486
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 2: on the lease. Uh, because he put a bird feeder

487
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 2: in his lap and turned the handlebars and it hit

488
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 2: the accelerator and Josh rolled an ATV at the age

489
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 2: of forty nine automatically kill you as I immediately realized, now,

490
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 2: thank god, I'm a safe driver. I'm kind of dork

491
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 2: like that, but still terrifying moment. But there for the

492
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 2: grace that I land and not the other.

493
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 1: What a freak accident.

494
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:27,360
Speaker 2: Literally, I had a bird feeder I was bringing out

495
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 2: to the swamp because when I'm sitting out there, I

496
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 2: like to watch birds because I'm a dork, and it's

497
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 2: basically free. So put it on a little saddlebag area

498
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 2: and when I turned the handlebars, it hit that little

499
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 2: thumb accelerator.

500
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 1: And well, he's the Lord. You're all right, yep, and

501
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 1: you got a good story to tell.

502
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 2: You never know, and you never know. Enjoy every single

503
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 2: find the beauty, find that flower in the crack of

504
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 2: the cement. And the fact that when I'm walking down

505
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 2: we can go to the Gwinnette County Jail on our

506
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 2: Rico case with a couple of my colleagues today, big

507
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 2: Rico case. Gwnette County Jail has the longest hallways made

508
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 2: made in Georgia. They are They're just the longest hallways ever.

509
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 2: But guess what, I got a lot of steps.

510
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 3: At glass cat full always there. You go, Love you,

511
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 3: I love you.

512
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 1: I'm glad you say I got some stories, alright, to

513
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 1: get the doctor on the phone. I need to talk

514
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:31,960
Speaker 1: about that.

515
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 2: I'm telling you it was it was. I'll say this.

516
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 2: I had a spiritual weekend last week. There was a

517
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 2: journey of spirit and questing and deep conversation with the

518
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 2: little like it was good.

519
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 3: All right, we're gonna talk about all of it. Y'all

520
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 3: have a good weekend.

521
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 1: I adore you, my friend, love you.

522
00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 2: Be good. Everybody,