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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: it's affiliates or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Well, welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

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Speaker 2: true crime all the time. It's Sunday, February twenty second,

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Speaker 2: and yes, we have a stack knight of headlines. An

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Speaker 2: Austrian hiker convicted of manslaughter. Very controversial story happening real time.

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Speaker 2: Convicted of manslaughter for very interesting reasons. So we are

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Speaker 2: unpacking all sides of that. Also looking ahead because Courtney

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Speaker 2: Court will be telling us about what to be watching

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Speaker 2: in court. I made that up a little segment where

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Speaker 2: you are strong exactly, Nick Reiner, of course say Alexander Brothers. Plus,

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Speaker 2: we have this really powerful conversation with Pamela Kendle of

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Speaker 2: Champions for CASA. She's joining us to talk about the

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Speaker 2: foster Care to prison cycle and what that pipeline really

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Speaker 2: is all about, so really important stuff. I'm Stephanie Leidecker

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Speaker 2: and I'm here with Courtney Armstrong, body move in. Ava

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Speaker 2: Kaplan is joining us right now as well our daytime

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Speaker 2: AP and of course producer Taha as well.

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Speaker 3: Happy Sunday, everybody Sunday.

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Speaker 4: I love a dual producer night. I love it. You're

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Speaker 4: like our.

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Speaker 5: Best most buttoned up even.

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Speaker 4: I like it all right, So I don't know who

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Speaker 4: should boss me around first? What do you think?

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Speaker 6: It's all right?

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Speaker 4: Ay, but you're up.

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Speaker 7: I'm so excited to talk to you about this story

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Speaker 7: because it's one that I've been seeing all over my

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Speaker 7: social media and it's really divisive, this hiker story. A

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Speaker 7: lot of people are taking different sides on it. So

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Speaker 7: I'm going to give you, guys kind of the lay

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Speaker 7: of the land, and I love to know your take.

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Speaker 7: All right, up, these are Austrian people. There's some German involved,

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Speaker 7: so please German listeners give me some grace. But this

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Speaker 7: case centers around a man named Thomas Plamberger, and he's

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Speaker 7: an Austrian mountaineer and he left his girlfriend. Her name

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Speaker 7: is Kirsten Gertner, and she froze to death when they

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Speaker 7: were on a hike together. They were attempting to summit

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Speaker 7: Austria's highest peak. And just this past week, on February nineteenth,

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Speaker 7: he was found guilty of gross negligent manslaughter because he

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Speaker 7: left his girlfriend and she died of hypothermia on this mountain.

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Speaker 4: Wow.

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Speaker 7: So what happened was she became exhausted near the summit

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Speaker 7: and he was like, okay, I'm going to go get help.

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Speaker 7: She died, and his sentence was a five month suspended

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Speaker 7: prison sentence, which means he doesn't actually go to prison

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Speaker 7: unless he breaks his parole conditions, and he got a fine.

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Speaker 4: So just on its.

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Speaker 7: Face, I'd love to know what you guys think about

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Speaker 7: who's responsible here.

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Speaker 2: I can jump in a little bit because I have

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Speaker 2: a little bit of backstory, so I want to make

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Speaker 2: sure about playing this game correctly, so I want to

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Speaker 2: throw my info in there too. I also really want

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Speaker 2: your opinions because it's a confusing one. And so yes,

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Speaker 2: on its nose, experienced tigers, they're their own people, a

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Speaker 2: couple that's on an adventure. But this was a pretty

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Speaker 2: real adventure as well, So it is not just for

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Speaker 2: an ordinary you know, walking uphill type and you know,

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Speaker 2: harrowing conditions weather in clement weather, things like that. He's

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Speaker 2: not necessarily in control of all of the climate and weather.

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Speaker 2: But there is a little more backstory to them.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, absolutely, so, kind of the conditions that we're working

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Speaker 7: with here is the mountain itself is about twelve five

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Speaker 7: hundred feet tall, which is just under four thousand meters,

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Speaker 7: and she became the girlfriend who unfortunately passed away. Became

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Speaker 7: exhausted about a couple hundred feet below the summit, so

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Speaker 7: they had already summited over ten thousand feet, and the

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Speaker 7: conditions were i'll say fahrenheit and celsius. Because of our

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Speaker 7: wonderful international listener base, it was about negative eight degrees

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Speaker 7: celsius and eighteen degrees fahrenheit without the wind chill. But

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Speaker 7: with the wind chill it was feeling like negative twenty

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Speaker 7: two degrees fahrenheit. So wow, it was pretty extreme.

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Speaker 8: So because I can, I just ask so I can

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Speaker 8: wrap my head around the story. So they're hiking up together.

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Speaker 8: I guess it got a little extreme for both Is

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Speaker 8: it was his mindset like I'm going to go back

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Speaker 8: and get help or did he like I because yeah,

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Speaker 8: helped carry you down.

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Speaker 7: I think that she was like, I'm exhausted. I can't

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Speaker 7: go up any further. I can't move, like she reached

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Speaker 7: her physical limits. At first, he tried to call authorities.

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Speaker 7: This was about around midnight. He reportedly called the police,

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Speaker 7: but reports say that he kind of downplayed the severity

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Speaker 7: of the situation. He was saying something like everything's fine,

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Speaker 7: and then he even put his phone in airplane mode

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Speaker 7: to conserve battery, which prosecutors were arguing delayed effective rescue

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Speaker 7: because he didn't make any follow up calls. If they

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Speaker 7: were trying to contact him, the calls weren't going through,

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Speaker 7: And a couple hours later, around three thirty am, he

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Speaker 7: decides he's going to descend alone to seek help. But

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Speaker 7: this left his girlfriend, Kirsten exposed, and she didn't have

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Speaker 7: her emergency blanket, she didn't have a lot of her supplies,

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Speaker 7: and he descends to seek help, and then the next

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Speaker 7: morning authorities find her deceased from hypothermia.

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Speaker 2: So I'm so confused to do though, What is that

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Speaker 2: he was he supposed to stay with her? I mean, yes,

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Speaker 2: I would have. I would like to think your significant

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Speaker 2: other would. But is that he wasn't intending to kill her?

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Speaker 7: That's what the defense is saying, is that, you know,

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Speaker 7: what was he supposed to do? Just stay and die

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Speaker 7: with her? But I can get a little.

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Speaker 2: Bit into an attempt to go get help, you know,

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Speaker 2: or was this a relationship that was tricky and this

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Speaker 2: was a part of a larger plan.

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Speaker 7: Well, that's the thing, is the kind of ruling was.

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Speaker 7: This wasn't an intentional murder scheme situation. It was a

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Speaker 7: case of negligence. And that's what he was convicted of,

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Speaker 7: is gross negligence, because the prosecutors were saying, you're an

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Speaker 7: experienced hiker. You should have known exactly what your limits are,

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Speaker 7: what her limits are, what supplies you should have had,

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Speaker 7: at what point you know, you guys should have been like,

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Speaker 7: we can't do this, we need to turn back. And

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Speaker 7: that's ultimately what he was convicted of.

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Speaker 4: But I'm so confused about that three and a half

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Speaker 4: hours and listen, this is very easy from my cozy

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Speaker 4: studio and not in negative one thousand degrees up on

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Speaker 4: a mountain. But that three and a half hour gap,

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Speaker 4: I'm sure the trial focused on that because what was

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Speaker 4: the purpose of the call to authorities if he was

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Speaker 4: basically saying, hey, all's good.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, great question, that's a great question.

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Speaker 4: And unpack that.

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Speaker 5: Because the idea that he was able.

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Speaker 2: To even call authority is pretty significant. Right you're imagining

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Speaker 2: you're in the middle of a mountain. These are all

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Speaker 2: very difficult things. Fun fact, I hiked half of Matchapecho,

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Speaker 2: so you know, as stint, these are real, real conditions.

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Speaker 5: However, yeah, not interesting.

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Speaker 4: It says.

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Speaker 7: This is what the Independent reported quote A short call

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Speaker 7: to the Mountain Police did not trigger a search because

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Speaker 7: the police said the boyfriend did not make clear they

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Speaker 7: needed rescuing, and he failed to answer calls back or

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Speaker 7: messages asking if they needed help.

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Speaker 2: Right, which to me also was a very big signal

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Speaker 2: that if you know, you've just received a phone call

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Speaker 2: in any condition that seems slightly harrowing, even if the

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Speaker 2: guy is like, no, it's cool, and then they get

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Speaker 2: cut off and they try to call back and they

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Speaker 2: can't get through, wouldn't that imply there's real danger to

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Speaker 2: go help.

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Speaker 7: That's a great point. It's interesting because it doesn't seem

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Speaker 7: like there's any conversation in this trial or case of

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Speaker 7: did the authorities do anything wrong? It really seems like

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Speaker 7: the question is is it the girlfriend's as all had?

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Speaker 2: You know, probably, you know, you can be very experienced

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Speaker 2: until you're in a very harrowing situation and put to

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Speaker 2: the test. You can have all the training in the world,

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Speaker 2: but if the person you love is beside you and

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Speaker 2: in peril, and you're suddenly the one in charge because

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Speaker 2: you're experienced. You can experienced in what practicing this in

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Speaker 2: my head, it's a lot different when it's real.

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Speaker 4: If you're just joining us, you're listening to True Crime tonight,

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Speaker 4: I'm Courtney. I'm here with Stephanie Leidecker and producers Taha

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Speaker 4: and Avar with us. We're discussing the case going on

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Speaker 4: right now of the Austrian hiker who was convicted of

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Speaker 4: manslaughter in a really controversial ruling. I had one other

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Speaker 4: thing to say about when someone is a quote expert

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Speaker 4: in something, Potentially he thought, Okay, I have a handle

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Speaker 4: on this, and I know I want to. I'll deal

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Speaker 4: with the situation however he did in those three and

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Speaker 4: a half hours, but I need to conserve my battery

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Speaker 4: in case something worse happened. So sometimes that can be

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Speaker 4: a bias of experience of I got it when you

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Speaker 4: really don't.

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Speaker 7: I think that's that was my assessment to you, A

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Speaker 7: little bit of he probably was overconfident or maybe even

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Speaker 7: embarrassed to admit that things got out of control. And

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Speaker 7: the judge when the judge, when he was giving the

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Speaker 7: sentence said quote you are an excellent alpinist, but someone

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Speaker 7: who finds it very difficult to make the switch between

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Speaker 7: your own limits and those of others.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, and I think I agree with Courtney because I

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Speaker 8: I've even ridden around with This is going to sound sexist,

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Speaker 8: but those kind of guys who are like, oh, I

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Speaker 8: got the direction, you don't need directions, We're fine. It

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Speaker 8: feels like he's got that kind of energy where it's

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Speaker 8: like he probably called it's that things aren't looking great,

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Speaker 8: but we're fine.

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Speaker 6: We're fine.

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Speaker 8: I got this like it was sort of giving people

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Speaker 8: heads up that it's not great, but he didn't want

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Speaker 8: to admit that it's it's it's.

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Speaker 6: Not a it's a dicey situation.

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Speaker 8: But going back to yeah, I know, yeah, I'm not

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Speaker 8: in no way am I defending him, but I do

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Speaker 8: see the logic of turning off the phone to conserve energy.

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Speaker 8: And then also, I can't bring you down, but if

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Speaker 8: I can go back and try to get help, because

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Speaker 8: I'm a better hiker, I can quickly try to navigate down.

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Speaker 6: I kind of see see.

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Speaker 2: It's like, even as you're talking, it's reminding me of

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Speaker 2: real time of Matchu Pichu in half hiking it, and

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Speaker 2: I'm reminded, why does.

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Speaker 5: Anybody do this these types of That's what I think.

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Speaker 2: When you're like in somebody else's life is in their hands,

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Speaker 2: you know, just you two wild cards on a girl's

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Speaker 2: trip going down and I'm going to.

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Speaker 5: Take the ski down like we used to do. It's crazy,

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Speaker 5: it's so dangerous.

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Speaker 7: And it's so interesting because Steph you said, like, you know,

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Speaker 7: tell that to her family when we were kind of

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Speaker 7: thinking what's the defense. But interestingly, the girlfriend the victim's

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Speaker 7: family actually spoke in the boyfriend's defense, saying, our daughter

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Speaker 7: took responsibility for herself.

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Speaker 2: True, if you're gonna jump out of an air plane,

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Speaker 2: you know, with some guys sky by the way, I

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Speaker 2: did this also when skydiving goes skydiving, you know, it's

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Speaker 2: a total stranger.

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Speaker 4: You don't know them at all.

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Speaker 2: You're just like attached to their back and you throw

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Speaker 2: yourself out of an airplane.

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Speaker 5: It's crazy. So it was at their fault, my fault,

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Speaker 5: my fault, of course.

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Speaker 8: But well, Ava, I have to I'm just going to

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Speaker 8: jump in. There's one part of this story that you

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Speaker 8: haven't got. I know, twist a completely changed my mind.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, I know I've been sitting on this twist, okay,

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Speaker 7: because I was kind of on Taha side a little bit, like,

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Speaker 7: you know what, it's really not his fault. He did

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Speaker 7: the best he could and it's a tragedy. But there

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Speaker 7: was someone unexpected who spoke for the prosecution, and that

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Speaker 7: was this man's.

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Speaker 2: Ex girlfriend, not the one that died, the one that

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Speaker 2: died adventure exactly.

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Speaker 7: He had another girlfriend in twenty twenty three who he

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Speaker 7: took on the same hike, no, the same biggest peak

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Speaker 7: in all of Austria, and she testified that the boyfriend

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Speaker 7: left her alone on the same hype after they had

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Speaker 7: an argument over the root and ditched her. And she

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Speaker 7: said she felt dizzy, she was scared in the dark,

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Speaker 7: her headlamp was failing, and he left her after an argument.

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Speaker 2: Imagine, this is my perspective, is so interesting. So this

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Speaker 2: cases are so interesting. So in so many cases that

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Speaker 2: would not have been admissible because it's you know, doesn't apply,

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Speaker 2: or would have been kicked out or assessed beforehand. But

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Speaker 2: in that case, isn't that context.

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Speaker 8: Sung the other direction, I'm like, okay, now I'm not

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Speaker 8: so this guy's.

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Speaker 5: Walking three Basically, he's not even gonna see jail time.

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Speaker 7: He has to pay like a ten eleven thousand dollars fine.

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Speaker 2: But that was allar fine for a woman's life, you know, tough?

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Speaker 2: Or was this just a waste of his life? Now

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Speaker 2: he's had to have a lawyer and be in the press.

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Speaker 2: It's is super controversial Austria. We love you, I know,

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Speaker 2: this one's been really heated.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, it's crazy, corny. Are you going to say something?

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Speaker 4: I'm actually I'm paused on the family. I imagine their statement

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Speaker 4: came at the end of the trial and that they

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Speaker 4: were able to take in that information from the other

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Speaker 4: girlfriend who this guy left at the top of a

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Speaker 4: mountain and still say you're good, we forgive you. I mean,

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Speaker 4: it's probably for their greater good. But I don't know,

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Speaker 4: I don't have that much that much grace, No, I don't.

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Speaker 4: I know.

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Speaker 7: Well, it's interesting because as I was researching this story,

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Speaker 7: it was talking a lot about there's this very strong

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Speaker 7: like mountaineering culture in Austria because it's such a big

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Speaker 7: part of like their landscape and culture, and they have

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Speaker 7: a very strong like duty of care culture as well, where.

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Speaker 4: We're all like lifeguards in a way, like you have

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Speaker 4: to be.

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Speaker 2: If you're going to be at sea, we all assume

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Speaker 2: that you took some course how to do mouth to

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Speaker 2: mouth for asussitation.

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Speaker 5: If you're going to have to save us and there's

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Speaker 5: only five of us see here.

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Speaker 2: Similarly, if you're going to hike with somebody or be

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Speaker 2: with somebody in a dangerous situation, and like you got

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Speaker 2: to make sure you're choosing a person who knows what

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Speaker 2: to do in that situation.

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Speaker 7: Even totally so, experts think that like a legal precedent

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Speaker 7: is going to be kind of set from this case

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Speaker 7: in the future that in high risk climbing, like whoever

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Speaker 7: is the more experienced mountaineer may hold legal responsibility for

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Speaker 7: their companion's safety.

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Speaker 4: Wow, that's really interesting, and I think that really does

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Speaker 4: speak to you, as you said, the culture of responsibility,

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Speaker 4: because I could not imagine a universe in America where.

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Speaker 7: That really not the case.

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Speaker 4: It just wouldn't happen.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, I completely agree. And there's there's a German term

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Speaker 7: for it, this duty of care that I'm not even

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Speaker 7: going to attempt to pronounce, but they have one of

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Speaker 7: those long German words that's like six words together. And

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Speaker 7: to me, it's just interesting that It just goes to

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Speaker 7: show that it really is important to them that they

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Speaker 7: even have their own word for it. So this this

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Speaker 7: case has really been controversial and heating up. So I'd

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Speaker 7: love if any listeners are from this area or hikers

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Speaker 7: let us know your thoughts.

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Speaker 6: I love that.

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Speaker 8: And one day down the road, Stephanie, can you please

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Speaker 8: tell us about your hike it makap because.

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Speaker 5: Oh yeah, for sure, half hike, half hike, but.

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Speaker 4: Still that's oh my goodness, what paused the hike? Listen,

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Speaker 4: stick around when we come back, we're going to talk

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Speaker 4: about trial. Watch tonight, the Alexander's Brothers sex trafficking trial

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Speaker 4: is heading and into recess as prosecutors build their case

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Speaker 4: and Nick Reiner appears in court on double murder charges

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Speaker 4: in the stabbing deaths of his parents. True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Today an iHeartRadio. We're talking

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Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with

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Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong. We have associate producer Ava with us as

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Speaker 2: well as Tah in the house.

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Speaker 5: We have a whole new batch right now.

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Speaker 2: So we're so glad you're here because we're trying to

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Speaker 2: kind of track certain trials that are coming right now

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Speaker 2: that kind of are emblematic of some of the larger

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Speaker 2: trials that we've been following for a while. So one

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Speaker 2: of them being, for example, the good old Alexander Brothers

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Speaker 2: that has some underpinnings because again this is one of

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Speaker 2: those cases that has some crossover to the Puff Daddy

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Speaker 2: Ditty case, the idea of sex trafficking obviously human trafficking

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Speaker 2: all having the crossover into the Epstein case, so Weinstein

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Speaker 2: even so, you know, we sort of know what kind

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Speaker 2: of these underpinnings are, and we even know some of

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Speaker 2: the federal systems that these are happening in for the

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Speaker 2: second time, third time even since we've been on air.

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Speaker 2: So Alexander Brothers, also the Nick Reiner case, you know,

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Speaker 2: mental illness and the role of drugs and the role

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Speaker 2: of mental illness and pharmaceuticals perhaps at play, all very

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Speaker 2: big topics that we're going to start seeing, I think

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Speaker 2: in various other cases as well. So large, large intro

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Speaker 2: to get to all things Alexander Brothers.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so the Alexander Brothers and Stephanie, to your point,

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Speaker 4: they're in the same courtroom as did he was. Just

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Speaker 4: it's it's a small world.

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Speaker 7: I suppose he and Epstine files even smaller world.

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Speaker 2: Yeah no, so, but just think about that though, and

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Speaker 2: I think that's relevant. We're in New York City. It's

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Speaker 2: a district that this courthouse doesn't typically allow any cameras.

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Speaker 2: We are relying on things that are happening from reporters

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Speaker 2: and journalists outdoors outside.

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Speaker 5: But it's it's a very real place.

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Speaker 2: But all of the people we just mentioned crosspaths with

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Speaker 2: the same guards and the same people, and the same

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Speaker 2: people who work at the courthouse, you know, and that

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Speaker 2: you say good morning to this is the spot. So

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Speaker 2: nothing too, I would be petrified to put it that way, Yeah, rightfully.

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Speaker 4: So. So these Alexander brothers, they again are being tried

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Speaker 4: in the Manhattan Federal Court and their trial has been

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Speaker 4: on a ten day recess, but we wanted to bring

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Speaker 4: it up because it is resuming on February twenty fourth,

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Speaker 4: so in just what two days from now, and prosecutors

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Speaker 4: are hoping to prove a decades long alleged sex trafficking scheme.

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Speaker 4: The defendants. As a reminder, these three brothers, tal and

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Speaker 4: the twins are Orrin and Alan Alexander, and they're Miami born.

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Speaker 4: They're super wealthy. They're luxury real estate agents and party boys.

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Speaker 4: They honestly, they remind me a little bit of back

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Speaker 4: in the day Joe Francis from Girls Gone Wild, Go True,

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Speaker 4: just partying high life the Hampton's Miami. But these three,

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Speaker 4: they're accused of using exactly this wealth and influence to lure,

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Speaker 4: to drug, and assault multiple women. And these three brothers

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Speaker 4: were arrested the end of twenty twenty four. They've all

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Speaker 4: pleaded not guilty. We have spoken about the witnesses who

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Speaker 4: have took the stand against them. It's been really harrowing.

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Speaker 4: And after this ten day recess we're coming off of,

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Speaker 4: I'm really interested to dig back into it. And I

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Speaker 4: can't imagine what the defense is going to say.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's really we're looking at enterprises, right systems.

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Speaker 2: That's you know, they're running networks. That's really an important

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Speaker 2: piece of the puzzle. I will be surprised if we

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Speaker 2: don't find that there's very significant crossover into the Ebstein files.

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Speaker 2: And I also think we're going to learn that in

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Speaker 2: the Ditty case that there was a lot more that

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Speaker 2: probably could have been brought to the table. Specifically surrounding celebrities,

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Speaker 2: et cetera, probably bigger, more salacious stuff. And I don't know,

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Speaker 2: knowing what we know now about p getting paid off

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Speaker 2: or money talking, I can't imagine the pr machines that

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Speaker 2: were in play at that point to keep big celebrity

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Speaker 2: names out of the courtroom, and for understandable reasons. You know,

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Speaker 2: really this was scary stuff. Now fast forward the Alexander brothers.

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Speaker 2: Although what they're being charged with is heinous and hard

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Speaker 2: to imagine that it's brothers on top of it, and

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Speaker 2: twins and everything about it.

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Speaker 4: Is so extra crop.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, listen, but in the era of

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Speaker 2: these new files that we're seeing, it certainly feels less

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Speaker 2: creepy than all the creepy right, So does that work

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Speaker 2: for you or against you? Is a really weird thing

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Speaker 2: to say out loud. And I also think it's a

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Speaker 2: way of looking at the system and how they are

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Speaker 2: pulling this off if in fact they're guilty.

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Speaker 5: You know, of course they're saying they're innocent.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I worry about the charges. I actually I really

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Speaker 4: worry that it's sex trafficking versus sexual assault versus rape.

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Speaker 6: Basically what we repeat of Didty that's right.

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Speaker 4: That's right.

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Speaker 2: It was a little different because of the racketeering piece

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Speaker 2: of it. But I think what Courtney's saying also is

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Speaker 2: that in the Ditty case, the charges were part of

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Speaker 2: the problem, like maybe he would have been found guilty

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Speaker 2: of domestic violence right on state charges versus the federal

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Speaker 2: and that is a fair point.

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Speaker 6: No, that's a great point, Courtney.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, thank you for reminding of of that and pointing

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Speaker 8: it out. And to your earlier point, Steph, I remember

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Speaker 8: early on with Diddy, we were kept saying, I can't

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Speaker 8: wait to see all the celebrities that are going to

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Speaker 8: be involved.

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Speaker 6: Ye had a single major celebrity.

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Speaker 2: Period, not more or against him other than his immediate

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Speaker 2: younger children who are in the gang.

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Speaker 5: And that's a complicated thing too.

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Speaker 2: That's why I think it's these are important cases to discuss. Now,

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Speaker 2: imagine it's the idea of just like group bad behavior

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Speaker 2: is so scary to me, you know, sex trafficking, any

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Speaker 2: kind of enterprise, any kind of racketeering.

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Speaker 4: It's like the mob.

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Speaker 5: Right, It's like gangs.

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Speaker 2: You have to do a bad thing to be one

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Speaker 2: of us, then you're in the gang. You know, I'm

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Speaker 2: air quoting, but like that symbolism sort of speaks to

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Speaker 2: all of these now in the Alexander Brothers add the

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Speaker 2: layer of brothers. Yeah, that's a whole other Like pay

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Speaker 2: close like I do, dynamics. I want to understand more

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Speaker 2: because that is a wild card, and like we need

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Speaker 2: to understand how to keep ourselves safe. What girl would

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Speaker 2: walk into a bunch of twins and brothers thinking that's

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Speaker 2: going to happen to her?

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Speaker 6: Right well?

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Speaker 4: And the I mean these charges are not or these allegations,

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Speaker 4: I should say, are not part of this trial. But

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Speaker 4: these allegations of more than one brother sexually assaulting girls,

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Speaker 4: you know at a time has been happening since they

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Speaker 4: were in high school. So we'll get into a deep we.

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Speaker 2: Really pay close attention, and I'm curious just about the dynas.

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Speaker 2: I think one thing we can all agree on, you know,

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Speaker 2: regardless of where we are with the files, et cetera,

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Speaker 2: is that we need to talk about grooming and we

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Speaker 2: need to talk about basic, proper appropriate human behavior, you know,

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Speaker 2: like there needs to be a start over, you know,

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Speaker 2: just the basics, because it seems like we've gotten off track,

437
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:22,560
Speaker 2: and the Alexander Brothers are greatly to start.

438
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, if you're just joining us, we're doing Trial

439
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:28,840
Speaker 4: Watch and we're talking about several cases that we will

440
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:30,919
Speaker 4: be following in the week. We just finished up with

441
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,200
Speaker 4: the Alexander Brothers, whose sex trafficking case we will pick

442
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,679
Speaker 4: up when court resumes. And now, Taha, I believe you

443
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 4: are going to give us an update on Nick Reiner.

444
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:41,520
Speaker 6: That's right.

445
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,240
Speaker 8: Yeah, Nick Reiner, a name we haven't said in a while,

446
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:46,879
Speaker 8: so it's been a minute since we've mentioned him. But

447
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:50,040
Speaker 8: Nick Reiner, for those who aren't aware, has been accused

448
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 8: of murdering his parents victims Rob and Michelle Singer Reiner,

449
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:58,200
Speaker 8: and everyone knows Rob Reiner, the actor director, but he's

450
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 8: set to appear in court tomorrow, which is Monday, February

451
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:05,040
Speaker 8: twenty third, for his arraignment. The defendant, Nick Rayner, he's

452
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:07,240
Speaker 8: thirty two years old and he was arrested back in

453
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 8: December in twenty twenty five for allegedly killing his parents,

454
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 8: Rob and Michelle Reiner at their Los Angeles home. He's

455
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:18,119
Speaker 8: facing two counts of first degree murder with special circumstances

456
00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:22,280
Speaker 8: of multiple murder, which would carry life without parole or

457
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,679
Speaker 8: the death penalty. And so we talked about this a

458
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:30,280
Speaker 8: while back, and at that time he had Alan Jackson

459
00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:33,639
Speaker 8: who was his attorney, but he is no longer represented

460
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 8: by Alan Jackson and now he's being represented by a

461
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:40,920
Speaker 8: public defender. And Nick is being currently held at Twin

462
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,920
Speaker 8: Towers Correctional Facility. He was previously at that time when

463
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:48,359
Speaker 8: we reported he was on suicide watch, but now he's

464
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 8: an observation housing, just being monitored every fifteen minutes. Steph,

465
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:54,160
Speaker 8: what are your thoughts on this?

466
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:56,439
Speaker 5: I think this is an important one to watch for

467
00:24:56,520 --> 00:25:00,200
Speaker 5: the reason of medicine. Right, So the pharmaceutical piece.

468
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,399
Speaker 2: It, It had been alleged that he was in the

469
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:04,919
Speaker 2: process of getting used to some new medications that he

470
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:09,159
Speaker 2: was taken for bipolar disorder or potential schizophrenia, all of

471
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,440
Speaker 2: which is very serious and can be treated with proper medication,

472
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 2: but that also requires the patient taking it at the

473
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,919
Speaker 2: appropriate times or it appears, or at least it was

474
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 2: reported that the weeks leading up to this horrendous crime,

475
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:27,159
Speaker 2: he had switched medications because he was gaining weight and

476
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 2: not liking how how he was feeling on whatever the

477
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 2: medications were. And that's a common thing I would assume,

478
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:38,400
Speaker 2: but that maybe that switch kind of turned a switch.

479
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,159
Speaker 2: And we're also looking at addiction and a person who

480
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 2: had a very heavy addiction. You know, whether that's because

481
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 2: he was self medicating or otherwise. Regardless, there was a

482
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 2: pretty decent meth addiction if I'm not mistaken. So what's

483
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:54,199
Speaker 2: the combination in that?

484
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:54,760
Speaker 5: Right?

485
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 2: And there's like no happy outcome, Like what do you

486
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 2: do in this situation? Like what are we It's like

487
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 2: so brutal for their family, the sister mother, like they

488
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:09,360
Speaker 2: lost their parents, and now it's what is the choice here?

489
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:14,399
Speaker 2: He's either in a prison cell and that's costs the

490
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 2: universe all this money. This guy, I would have to

491
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 2: assume it's like sobering up and realizing I killed my parents.

492
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,679
Speaker 2: Well a padded well for the rest of his life,

493
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,159
Speaker 2: like there's no nothing good comes of this.

494
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:30,920
Speaker 8: Yeah, I see Ava's I want I want to fill

495
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,720
Speaker 8: everyone in on It's funny you mentioned the parents because

496
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 8: right now his siblings, Max and Robbie Reiner, they have

497
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:41,440
Speaker 8: not been they haven't visited him at all since he's

498
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 8: been incarcerated, and other relatives are also reportedly keeping their distance,

499
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 8: saying that.

500
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's it's horrible. Chiman, Please, what were you going

501
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:52,640
Speaker 6: to say.

502
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 7: I'm just curious because his arraignment was originally Nick Nick

503
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 7: Reiner's arrangement was originally supposed to be January seventh, and

504
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:01,640
Speaker 7: then it was post pone from them until now because

505
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 7: assume I assume it was because he was having so

506
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 7: many mental health crises and he just wasn't fit to

507
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 7: kind of be in court. And I'm going to be

508
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:14,919
Speaker 7: curious if and maybe this is something we can talk

509
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:18,159
Speaker 7: about with Jared. I'm going to be curious if the

510
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 7: insanity not guilty plea comes into play tomorrow, Like when

511
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:26,159
Speaker 7: you plead not guilty, do you say at that time

512
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 7: for reason of insanity or do you say to around.

513
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,399
Speaker 2: To do I think they're going to say something to

514
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 2: do with mental illness if I'm not mistaken. And it's

515
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:38,359
Speaker 2: a great question for Jared that the insanity defense is

516
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 2: very hard to prove. That standard is pretty hard. However,

517
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:44,880
Speaker 2: what all their standards do you need? The guys on medication,

518
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 2: he was diagnosed with very intense mental disorders. He was

519
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:51,639
Speaker 2: living with his parents, probably because he couldn't live in

520
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:55,640
Speaker 2: the real world. He was showing all kinds of bad

521
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,919
Speaker 2: behavior and had a history with drugs, but had cleaned

522
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,400
Speaker 2: it up. Mom and dad probably think they're doing everything

523
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:03,920
Speaker 2: they possibly can, but don't want to like leave him

524
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 2: out of their sight. Out of their sight, he might

525
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,880
Speaker 2: be using it again on the side. Now he's figuring out

526
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,879
Speaker 2: that he's being held for the rest of his life

527
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 2: for a crime. Chances are he would take back in

528
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:19,440
Speaker 2: a heartbeat. I guess, as every criminal. I would suppose,

529
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:24,200
Speaker 2: but I don't know. I just feel for his siblings

530
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 2: so deeply. They didn't get to have a proper funeral,

531
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 2: and everyone's.

532
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:30,440
Speaker 5: Like, oh, the rhiners, the beloved director.

533
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:33,120
Speaker 2: It's like their dad and their mom, they were so

534
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:36,480
Speaker 2: so close and they just lost their brother. By the way,

535
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 2: going to visit him, it's like visiting the dead, Like

536
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 2: that's who's potentially caused the pain that they're suffering from.

537
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 8: Yeah, which is probably why so many family members haven't

538
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 8: gone to visit because it's too traumatic.

539
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 6: I can't look you in the eye after you.

540
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 2: They don't want to over traumatize him either, because this guy,

541
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 2: they probably feel for him. They probably recognize that the

542
00:28:55,520 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 2: good in him, you know, is there and just has

543
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 2: to now be with himself.

544
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 4: Yeah. Other I mean relatives have cited and this really

545
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 4: chilled my spine that they're keeping distance. They cited grief

546
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 4: layered on top of horror. I mean, how double.

547
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 2: Grief your parents at the same time they lived this

548
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 2: the daughter lived across the street, you know, who had

549
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 2: to find her dead parents and her former best friend

550
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 2: she was said, you know at some point, you know,

551
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 2: younger sister. Maybe I'm partial because I have elder brothers.

552
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 2: You know, loves her brother's.

553
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 4: The way I do.

554
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 2: I assume even though in her case one of them's

555
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 2: a little off, she still.

556
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 5: Was crazy about theim. She called him her best friend.

557
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 8: You mentioned something too, because you were talking about topics

558
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:48,479
Speaker 8: to bring up with Jared and we know that he

559
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:50,800
Speaker 8: was you know, he had a drug addiction. Does it

560
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 8: if someone is completely not themselves, they're completely on drugs

561
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 8: and high out of their mind, does that impact the

562
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 8: sort of the I guess not really.

563
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 2: As what Jared said, I think we discussed this with

564
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 2: him once high bar possible the probably exceptions.

565
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 7: But but Alan Jackson when Alan Jackson, his prior former attorney,

566
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 7: the Karen Reid one who since dipped, said I firmly

567
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 7: believe that my client is not guilty, and I think

568
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 7: the implication there was not guilty by reason of insanity

569
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 7: because right just genuinely had no idea what he was

570
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 7: doing or wasn't able to understand. So I'm curious if

571
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 7: the trial then becomes we don't have to prove that

572
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 7: he didn't do it, we have to prove that he

573
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 7: didn't know what he was doing at that time.

574
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 4: Right, Well, I looked crazy. We should absolutely go into

575
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 4: it with Jared, but just as a real cursory search.

576
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:47,479
Speaker 4: In California, specifically, if you do plead not guilty by

577
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 4: reason of insanity, that must be entered at the beginning

578
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 4: of the case because it goes alongside. It's a bipricaded case.

579
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 4: So you then have to you stand trial, then you

580
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 4: found guilty, you're not guilty, And if you're found guilty,

581
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 4: then the second is is your medical capacities allowed?

582
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 7: Oh so it's two trials for that.

583
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 4: But we should get more details from the expert.

584
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 2: So interesting because there's so many interesting cases, So Eva,

585
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 2: which one should we do next.

586
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 7: I'm really excited because tomorrow is the first day of

587
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 7: Corey Richins trial, and this is a trial we've been

588
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 7: talking about for the past couple of weeks. We've been

589
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 7: talking about the walk the dog letter, et cetera, et cetera.

590
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 7: She is the thirty five year old mom from Utah

591
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 7: who is about to stand trial for the alleged fentanyl

592
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 7: murder of her husband, whose name is Eric Richins. He

593
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 7: was found with five times the amount of lethal fentanyl

594
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 7: in his system, and she's facing a whole slew of

595
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 7: crazy charges including aggravated murder, attempted criminal homicide. There's also

596
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 7: some insurance fraud, forgery stuff's. She has a lot a

597
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 7: lot going on and her trial is scheduled to run

598
00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 7: five weeks Monday through Thursday, starting tomorrow, so we'll be

599
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 7: covering this trial through around March twenty seventh if if

600
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:06,960
Speaker 7: it stays on track.

601
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 4: I can't wait to see if she takes the stand.

602
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 4: And considering she was like rushing up on the l

603
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 4: SATs to be her own at Bernie, I am a

604
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 4: real narcialist.

605
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 2: I'm obsessed with narcissistic mothers who have this feeling in

606
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 2: her mind that she was going to somehow get like

607
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 2: she was going to get pity for the grieving as

608
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 2: a grieving widow who was caring for her children, Like

609
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 2: that's so demented. It has a little crossover to any

610
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 2: Piked in case anyone who knows of the Pike County murders,

611
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 2: like having a mother that's that, that's that narcissistic that

612
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 2: could do that to her kids. It's so complicated.

613
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 7: The thing about me that I'm realizing through this show

614
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,240
Speaker 7: and also in my real life is I never think

615
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 7: anyone's ever lying, and anything anyone tells me I take

616
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:58,720
Speaker 7: at face value. And so I was reading her statement,

617
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 7: Corey rich and she's the acute who's fenstional murderer. Her

618
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 7: defense put out a statement. I'll read a little bit

619
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 7: of it, but I was reading this, I was like,

620
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 7: you know what, Yeah, like, so true, I believe you.

621
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 7: I don't know this. This is what her defense said.

622
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 7: Corey has waited nearly three years for this moment, the

623
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 7: opportunity to have the facts of the case heard by

624
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 7: a jury, free from the prosecution's narrative that has dominated

625
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 7: headlines since the arrest. We welcome the courtroom, where evidence

626
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 7: is bound by rules, not sensational coverage. She's a mother

627
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 7: who wants to go home to her children. And I

628
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:31,959
Speaker 7: read that and I was like, yeah, you know what, Like,

629
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 7: Corey's been done dirty. The sensational headlines like.

630
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 6: This is going to happen.

631
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 4: They try all.

632
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 2: Things in the press. Yes, so it's very possible that

633
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 2: this is a mother who's been wronged. And the sexier

634
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:45,880
Speaker 2: story was that she had written a book about grieving

635
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 2: for her kids. Can you imagine and that one but

636
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 2: one person says that, and that catches a headline and

637
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 2: suddenly it's a runaway theme.

638
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 6: Yeah.

639
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 7: I'm gonna be really curious when I see the actual

640
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 7: evidence how I feel about it, because right now all

641
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 7: we have is kind of the competing narratives from the

642
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 7: defense and the prosecution, and I believe whoever's talking to

643
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 7: me at that moment. So we'll see what the evidence says.

644
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 2: It's actual quality about you that I love, by the way,

645
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 2: and I think it's such a wonderful way to see

646
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 2: the world. And I think that's the way.

647
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,319
Speaker 4: The world works, I think. So don't let um.

648
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:23,400
Speaker 2: We're seeing some real wires, like extreme circumstances. You know,

649
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 2: I think that these are very extreme, which is why

650
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:27,400
Speaker 2: we're talking about them, right. You know, it's like talking

651
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,840
Speaker 2: about a great white shark. You go on exhibitions, you know,

652
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 2: these are versions of that, but important because you know,

653
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:37,400
Speaker 2: less is more so if we don't talk about it,

654
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 2: there will be more so.

655
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 8: But I'm going to play devil's advocate and be the

656
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 8: protective dad kind of figure.

657
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 6: But you can't be too gullible and too Jada, you know.

658
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 6: I tend to be the opposite.

659
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 8: Where I look at people, I'm like, maybe the New

660
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:53,040
Speaker 8: Yorker and me maybe the former talk show person. I

661
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:55,280
Speaker 8: look at everyone, I'm like, are they really being honest

662
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 8: with me? So just be careful because I feel like

663
00:34:57,600 --> 00:34:59,799
Speaker 8: that little huge thing.

664
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 2: So like, that's what I don't want for you. But

665
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 2: you have a great head on your shoulders. And it's

666
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 2: also when looking at cases, you have to remember there's,

667
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 2: you know, so many sides to a story.

668
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:13,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that exactly like and wait until it plays out,

669
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 4: which I'm sure Stephanie wants to like hit me in

670
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 4: the head every time I say, she's like, what do

671
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:19,560
Speaker 4: you think about this? I'm like, well, we haven't heard

672
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:22,920
Speaker 4: both sides of the case, so it's a very boring answer.

673
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:26,720
Speaker 6: However, is a boring answer? Is so true?

674
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 2: It is true, But she's right because the totality is

675
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 2: what counts, which is why there is no real broad stroke.

676
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 4: It's hard, it's complicated, it's nuanced.

677
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 2: Every case has its own set of circumstances in its

678
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 2: own backstory.

679
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:40,719
Speaker 4: So as we talk about.

680
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,360
Speaker 5: Things being admissible and not admissible in core, it's.

681
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:46,719
Speaker 2: Really important because you know, those are all pieces of

682
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 2: a backstory that add contexts, that add perspective, because typically

683
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:53,920
Speaker 2: nothing's what it seems on its surface, you know, les,

684
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 2: it's far more layered than that, in a good way

685
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 2: and in a messy way.

686
00:35:57,600 --> 00:35:59,359
Speaker 6: So yeah, I know you're you're right.

687
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 8: And when you were saying something earlier too about the

688
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 8: sexy headlines, two words came into my mind that there

689
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:06,080
Speaker 8: were case that we covered Amanda Knox, that was a

690
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 8: case where it was sort of everything was about the

691
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 8: sexy angle to twist it in, And then I realized, Okay,

692
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 8: I'm being sort of led by the media down the

693
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 8: wrong direction.

694
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:20,239
Speaker 2: Soone one hundred percent and that you know, let's be honest,

695
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:24,919
Speaker 2: the media does chase the bigger, the sexier, the louder fearselves, right.

696
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 2: I think that's becoming a little less the case. I

697
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 2: think there's an actual genuine fatigue to that. But that said,

698
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 2: you know, it does sell. So I know what the

699
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:34,720
Speaker 2: right answer on that one.

700
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:36,920
Speaker 4: Is Okay, So, if you are just joining us, this

701
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:39,880
Speaker 4: is true Crime Tonight and we're talking about trials that

702
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:41,920
Speaker 4: are upcoming that we're going to be following in the

703
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 4: week and what you need to know going into the week. Yeah. So,

704
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 4: Colin Gray is the father of alleged school shooter Colt Gray,

705
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:54,759
Speaker 4: now cold. Gray was fourteen at the time that he

706
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:58,239
Speaker 4: is alleged to have shot up his school and there

707
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:02,360
Speaker 4: were several fatalities. But the father is the defendant in

708
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 4: the case that just finished its first week of trial,

709
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:10,479
Speaker 4: and he's on trial largely because he provided his son

710
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 4: with the assault style weapon that was used to murder

711
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:18,840
Speaker 4: children and teachers, and he gave this weapon as a

712
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:24,319
Speaker 4: Christmas gift despite being aware of the acute shooter, his

713
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 4: son's mental health deterioration, and obsession with school shooters, and

714
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 4: that he also failed to intervene his father on multiple

715
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:35,840
Speaker 4: red flag moments.

716
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 2: I mean, guys, I honestly, if you had given me

717
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 2: those facts on its nose, I would have said he

718
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 2: was going to walk. But now I know so much

719
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 2: context to this particular case that I think he's going

720
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:51,480
Speaker 2: to do time, and it will be to make a point.

721
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:54,799
Speaker 5: But what's the solution in that. I don't know that

722
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:55,400
Speaker 5: that's enough.

723
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 2: You know, like, is there a solution in that if

724
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 2: you're going to give your underage child an assault weapon,

725
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 2: that you have to sign a document that says you

726
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:07,360
Speaker 2: will take the penalty for whatever happens with this gun?

727
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,279
Speaker 6: Or will it make people think twice about you know.

728
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,680
Speaker 2: Sign that would you maybe be more mindful of your

729
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:15,800
Speaker 2: child's mental health?

730
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 4: You know all Devil's advocate. That's a slippery slope. First

731
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 4: of all, I agree with it one hundred percent, and

732
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 4: I think, yes, if you are handing a child.

733
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:30,240
Speaker 5: A child deadly with a child who was a fourteen

734
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:30,880
Speaker 5: year old.

735
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 6: To me, that's a child. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

736
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:37,440
Speaker 4: He is, I mean my Devil's advocate, Yes, yeah, no, no, no,

737
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 4: But like where does it end?

738
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:41,719
Speaker 5: You know, I said convincing? Like I was, was I

739
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:42,919
Speaker 5: just giving you like a little book?

740
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 4: For a second, I was like, she's really I should

741
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:49,319
Speaker 4: be an actress. There we go.

742
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 2: But no, I was just playing Devil's advocate to that though,

743
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 2: But that is the argument, right, that's the other side

744
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:54,879
Speaker 2: to it.

745
00:38:55,440 --> 00:39:00,520
Speaker 4: True, absolutely, and then but extrapolate down so again I agree,

746
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 4: if you hand a juvenile, let's call someone under the

747
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:06,799
Speaker 4: eighteen who does not have the capacity to sign a

748
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,440
Speaker 4: piece of paper and make it legal. Like, let's call

749
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 4: under that a child that you should hold responsibility. Okay,

750
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 4: I give my underage kid baseball bats? Where does the

751
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 4: line end? Do you know?

752
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:23,279
Speaker 2: And if you're an underage kid that you gave a

753
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 2: baseball bat too, does something super weird like kill someone

754
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 2: with a baseball bat?

755
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:29,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, maybe you should think twice.

756
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 6: Good point.

757
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:33,759
Speaker 2: Okay, well getting killed with baseball bats? Is there enough

758
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:35,719
Speaker 2: to even antiquate that, you know?

759
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:36,640
Speaker 4: Is there?

760
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:38,960
Speaker 5: I don't think we have a baseball bat issue.

761
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:42,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's okay, that's I mean, listen, you're speaking my

762
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:44,600
Speaker 4: honest knows. I agree with you.

763
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,400
Speaker 5: If in not using that example, I would say come on.

764
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:51,359
Speaker 4: But so let me give you just a couple of

765
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 4: details that we should know that have come out in

766
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:58,719
Speaker 4: testimony of the amount of sheer really facts that this

767
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:04,880
Speaker 4: father was given in advance of his son allegedly shooting

768
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:10,120
Speaker 4: students at his school. So in two years before the shooting,

769
00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 4: and this came from testimony from someone who worked at

770
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 4: the middle school. They testified that the alleged shooter, called

771
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:22,480
Speaker 4: Gray Drew Swasika's left the cafeteria with that permission, physically

772
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 4: confronted another student, and so each of those incidences resulted

773
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 4: in suspension. So he was suspended three times. So maybe

774
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:35,760
Speaker 4: start there, Stephanie with what's to solve? Okay, maybe more steps.

775
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:39,680
Speaker 4: You're suspended three times, what's doing you should not.

776
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 2: Be able to at that point? Right, so that counts.

777
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 2: So what's the line there?

778
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:48,640
Speaker 4: I guess right, I mean, that's question globally, what's the line?

779
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 4: The principal also testified to repeated behavioral issues that had

780
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:58,360
Speaker 4: happened at the middle school, and also the fact that

781
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:01,400
Speaker 4: emails were sent to both of the alleged stutors' parents,

782
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 4: including dad on trial, and that dad responded, we will

783
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:11,240
Speaker 4: address it. Interventions, however, were inconsistent. The Department of Family

784
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:16,759
Speaker 4: and Child Service employees described past child welfare investigation that

785
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 4: speaks to just not just but that speaks to troubled

786
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 4: family life, and one of the Department of Family and

787
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 4: Child Services employee testified that during a June twenty twenty

788
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:38,800
Speaker 4: three visit, the defendant claimed that his son was doing

789
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 4: well academically and socially. That wasn't true.

790
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:43,839
Speaker 5: It's not appeared to be the case at all.

791
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 2: But he was new to high school and ninth grade

792
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:49,480
Speaker 2: high school think back, that could be hard. That's a

793
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:52,760
Speaker 2: scary transition for anyone. You know, I'm only seeing photos

794
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 2: of him that look like he's in a mugshot, so

795
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:57,520
Speaker 2: you know, I'll save my comments. But you know, this

796
00:41:57,640 --> 00:41:59,719
Speaker 2: was obviously a kid that had some troubles going on,

797
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:03,560
Speaker 2: and a lot of the red flags were missed.

798
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:06,759
Speaker 4: Or more importantly, they were ignored, right, so.

799
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:09,360
Speaker 6: Terrible they were.

800
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, they were ignored. I mean, including when the Sheriff's

801
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:20,319
Speaker 4: office came to visit the defendant, the dad, after they

802
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 4: got a tip from Discord that his son was talking

803
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:28,240
Speaker 4: about potential school shootings. How much bigger of a flag

804
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:28,919
Speaker 4: do you need?

805
00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:31,920
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean the dad was instructed to secure his

806
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 7: firearms and then literally a police officer saying, secure your firearms,

807
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:39,480
Speaker 7: make sure that your child does not have access to firearms,

808
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:43,920
Speaker 7: only to then gift your child an assault rifle is just,

809
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:45,360
Speaker 7: to me, completely insane.

810
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 2: It is we should have parent in court though, you know,

811
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:52,239
Speaker 2: this is a whole other side to hustle to this,

812
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 2: but like, yeah, what's the line and in this case

813
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:55,759
Speaker 2: that does seem very egregious.

814
00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 7: Well, what does this making me think about and I'm

815
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 7: so glad that we're talking about fast your care later

816
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:03,919
Speaker 7: in the show. Is it seems like neither of these

817
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:08,000
Speaker 7: parents were able to provide a stable, secure, like healthy

818
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:11,279
Speaker 7: home environment for their child. So part of me is

819
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 7: inclined to say, like, take him away from these parents

820
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:16,880
Speaker 7: and like put him somewhere with adults who can be

821
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:19,280
Speaker 7: a better role model for him and keep a better

822
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:22,880
Speaker 7: eye on him. But then we learn about just how

823
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:26,360
Speaker 7: terrible sometimes foster care can also be for the development

824
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:28,360
Speaker 7: of a child, and how it can only contribute to

825
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:31,239
Speaker 7: these mental health issues. So I guess my question is

826
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:34,760
Speaker 7: how can we create create a system or an environment

827
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:38,319
Speaker 7: where kids who need help actually have a place that

828
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:40,120
Speaker 7: they can go where they can get it, you know.

829
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 2: Loudly that must be And for this kid, you know,

830
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 2: just coming from a place of compassion, I know he's

831
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:48,399
Speaker 2: done very terrible things. Game over, you know, I guess

832
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:52,200
Speaker 2: is regardless, like the crime is something you got.

833
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 4: To live with. He was there for that, he witnessed it.

834
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 5: You know.

835
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, it sounds like mom and dad maybe had their

836
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:00,239
Speaker 2: hands off the wheel. They might have had other stuff

837
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:01,360
Speaker 2: going on in the world.

838
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:06,719
Speaker 4: And they did We know that for both of his parents,

839
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 4: including dad on trial. I mean there was financial, grave

840
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:17,360
Speaker 4: hard financial issues. There was addiction issues after a back injury.

841
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 7: How back to Stephany you mentioned for.

842
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:23,279
Speaker 2: Money, Yeah, you make no money. Now you have a

843
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 2: back injury, so you can't go to work. Now you're

844
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:27,680
Speaker 2: taking pharmaceuticals, but you can't get off of drugs. And

845
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 2: then the cycle of arts, right, So who's winning and

846
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:35,840
Speaker 2: the mom was yeah, yeah, the mom was also facing

847
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:37,840
Speaker 2: a number of issues as well, so it was.

848
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:40,799
Speaker 7: On both issues. There was a thing on both sides

849
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 7: of the family. It's just so sad and these these

850
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:46,759
Speaker 7: poor younger siblings, Like it says that the I read

851
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:49,399
Speaker 7: that the dad who's on trial right now found out

852
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:52,440
Speaker 7: that a shooting had happened because one of his the

853
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:56,239
Speaker 7: younger daughters texted him saying that something had happened. And

854
00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 7: I'm just thinking about this kid's these kids' younger siblings,

855
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 7: like having an older sibling who did this, having a

856
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 7: dad who's on trial now drives are ruined too. It's

857
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 7: just it's all so sad, and I just really hope

858
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:11,640
Speaker 7: that the younger siblings, like maybe there's still some hope

859
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:13,799
Speaker 7: for them and that they're getting help as well.

860
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 2: And you bring up such a good point, like, again,

861
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:18,319
Speaker 2: if we're not unpacking these cases to the extent that

862
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:21,240
Speaker 2: we are following so closely, because again, this one, although

863
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 2: there have been other parents that we talked about that

864
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:27,360
Speaker 2: have found themselves on trial for something similar, it's.

865
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:28,759
Speaker 4: Still pretty new, you know.

866
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:31,879
Speaker 2: So these are each one of these cases is very

867
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 2: controversial in itself but important that we kind of really

868
00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:38,680
Speaker 2: wait for context across the board.

869
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:40,640
Speaker 5: But we should watch very very closely.

870
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:45,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, and we will indeed be watching very closely. Stick

871
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:47,720
Speaker 4: around because coming up at the top of the hour,

872
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:51,560
Speaker 4: we're going to look for to some solutions. So Pamela Kendall,

873
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 4: she's of Champions for CASA, She's joining us for a

874
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:57,680
Speaker 4: really powerful conversation. We're going to talk about the foster

875
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:01,279
Speaker 4: care to prison pipeline. We're gonna lay out some staggering

876
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:05,480
Speaker 4: statistics and how everyday people can actually step in to

877
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:17,759
Speaker 4: make a difference. Keep it here, True Crime Tonight.

878
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 3: This is True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio, where we're talking

879
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 3: true crime all the time. I'm Boddy Moving and I'm

880
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:27,400
Speaker 3: here with producer Courtney Armstrong and Stephanie Liidecker.

881
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 4: Don't forget.

882
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:29,680
Speaker 3: If you miss any part of Tonight's show, you can

883
00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:32,160
Speaker 3: always catch a podcast. We also want to hear from you,

884
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 3: so give us a call at eighty to eight thirty

885
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:36,480
Speaker 3: one Crime or you know DMS on our social slide

886
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:39,200
Speaker 3: into our DMS. You can find us on TikTok and

887
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:42,920
Speaker 3: Instagram at True Crime Tonight's Show, or on Facebook. Just

888
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:46,399
Speaker 3: do a little search for True Crime Tonight. Courtney has

889
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:50,200
Speaker 3: a little passion project that I'm so excited to talk about, Courtney,

890
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:50,960
Speaker 3: what's going on?

891
00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:53,440
Speaker 4: Okay? So I got to say, I've had my eyes opened.

892
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 4: And obviously we talk about crimes that have happened. We

893
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:00,319
Speaker 4: are True Crime Tonight, and we talk about them and

894
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:02,600
Speaker 4: what we can learn from them. But I thought we'd

895
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:04,799
Speaker 4: take a moment and we put a little focus on

896
00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:09,720
Speaker 4: how we can prevent crimes. Yeah, and one real way

897
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:12,880
Speaker 4: is by interrupting something that's known as the foster care

898
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:16,279
Speaker 4: to prison pipeline. So that's sort of a phrase I'd

899
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:19,279
Speaker 4: never heard and the implicate foster.

900
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:21,600
Speaker 3: Care to prison pipeline. Okay, so what's that all about?

901
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:27,840
Speaker 4: Okay? So the statistics are staggering and even Milania Trump,

902
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:30,719
Speaker 4: so this is it's really it's a national epidemic, and

903
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:35,240
Speaker 4: the First Lady pretty recently introduced an initiative called Foster

904
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:39,680
Speaker 4: Future and that helps secure twenty five million dollars to

905
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:42,840
Speaker 4: support the youth that are aging out of the foster

906
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:43,760
Speaker 4: care system.

907
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:47,640
Speaker 3: So people that are turning like eighteen, is that aging out?

908
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:51,919
Speaker 4: Okay? Exactly right. And this initiative is to provide sort

909
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:56,200
Speaker 4: of some housing and educational resources, career support, and to

910
00:47:56,239 --> 00:48:00,160
Speaker 4: prepare them to be members of society. So anyway, there's

911
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 4: a national spotlight on it, and I thought we'd take

912
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:04,319
Speaker 4: a minute and we'll put a spotlight as well.

913
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:04,960
Speaker 6: Let's do it.

914
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:09,400
Speaker 4: So this pipeline, it's really it's systemic, and it funnels

915
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:13,319
Speaker 4: children from the child welfare system into the juvenile and

916
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:18,000
Speaker 4: adult criminal legal systems. Ready to have your mind blown? Okay,

917
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:22,800
Speaker 4: there is some stats. According to the National Foster Youth Institute,

918
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:26,640
Speaker 4: only one in two foster children get a high school diploma.

919
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:30,200
Speaker 3: That's only half. Yeah, So if you're in foster care,

920
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:31,480
Speaker 3: only one in two.

921
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:32,760
Speaker 5: Oh my goodness.

922
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:34,480
Speaker 3: So if you have a sibling, one of you might

923
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:36,640
Speaker 3: get an education and the other one wouldn't.

924
00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:40,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, okay, three percent over the course of

925
00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:43,040
Speaker 4: their whole lifetime, get a college degree if they've been

926
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:49,080
Speaker 4: a foster kid. And when kids age out of the

927
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 4: foster system, twenty percent, that's one in five become homeless.

928
00:48:54,320 --> 00:49:01,960
Speaker 4: What yes, oh my goodness, yes, I mean it broke, Yes,

929
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:05,239
Speaker 4: one in five. And then so you can see how

930
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:08,920
Speaker 4: easily you would then term to crimes of necessity.

931
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:13,480
Speaker 3: Absolutely, if you're homeless and you're desperate, right, oh my gosh, Okay.

932
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:18,840
Speaker 4: You're hungry, you don't have a degree, right, no stability, right,

933
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:22,839
Speaker 4: all of the above. Yeah, just a couple of more,

934
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:27,440
Speaker 4: because again I really couldn't believe this. Only again, fifty percent,

935
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:30,839
Speaker 4: only fifty percent will have gainful employment by the age

936
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:36,680
Speaker 4: of twenty four, because again, these kids are so far behind.

937
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:43,920
Speaker 4: And then by by age twenty six, get this up

938
00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 4: to seventy seventy percent have been arrested at least once seventy.

939
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:53,799
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, seventy percent. Oh my gosh, that's way

940
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:56,080
Speaker 3: too many. Okay, So I like this initiative by the

941
00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:59,680
Speaker 3: first lady then to help get these kids some resources,

942
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:00,600
Speaker 3: all right.

943
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:04,120
Speaker 4: Absolutely, and now yeah, absolutely, and now I think we

944
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:08,240
Speaker 4: should talk about some more solutions. So I'm so site

945
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:12,240
Speaker 4: I know we all are to be joined by Pamela Kendall.

946
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:16,839
Speaker 4: She is the executive director of Champions for CASA. That's

947
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:21,719
Speaker 4: in Clark County, Nevada. Now, CASA stands for Court Appointed

948
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:26,240
Speaker 4: Special Advocates. It's nationwide and its mission is to bridge

949
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:28,839
Speaker 4: the gap and ensure that every child in foster care

950
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:32,840
Speaker 4: has a dedicated advocate looking out for their best interest.

951
00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:37,520
Speaker 4: And we're going to learn how important that is. Pamela Kendall.

952
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:42,400
Speaker 4: She's also a dedicated volunteer for organizing organizations that include

953
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:45,520
Speaker 4: a whole lot of kindness that empowers at risk and

954
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:49,840
Speaker 4: aged out foster youth. And she herself is a former

955
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:54,279
Speaker 4: Court Appointed Special Advocate volunteer herself. N And then just

956
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:56,640
Speaker 4: one other thing that I thought was so notable about

957
00:50:56,719 --> 00:51:01,520
Speaker 4: our guests tonight. Pamela is also the president of Folds

958
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:06,680
Speaker 4: of Honor in Nevada. And that's yeah, so it's separate,

959
00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:09,440
Speaker 4: but it's a nonprofit that gives spouses and children a

960
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:16,240
Speaker 4: fall in or disabled US service members, educational scholarships and yeah,

961
00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:19,600
Speaker 4: and Pam along with her son, started the thirty three

962
00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:26,040
Speaker 4: chapter of this foundation. So welcome, Pam, Hi, Pam, welcome.

963
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:27,040
Speaker 6: Thank you, thank you.

964
00:51:27,120 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 9: I really appreciate you guys actually taking this subject.

965
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:32,879
Speaker 10: You know, to the next level.

966
00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:36,640
Speaker 9: It's an important subject and I appreciate you guys letting

967
00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:37,160
Speaker 9: me be here.

968
00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:40,680
Speaker 3: I didn't realize how how these statistics were. I'm actually

969
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:43,080
Speaker 3: kind of surprised. I mean, Courtney has been kind of

970
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:45,239
Speaker 3: researching this, it's kind of been a passion project for her.

971
00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:49,239
Speaker 3: But I'm stunned at these statistics. One, it only half

972
00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:53,840
Speaker 3: get out of high school diploma. That is crazy, and

973
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:57,000
Speaker 3: they're in the system at this time. That's crazy to me.

974
00:51:57,040 --> 00:51:59,879
Speaker 3: I'm really stunned by that. So for those who don't

975
00:51:59,880 --> 00:52:03,359
Speaker 3: know though, for those who aren't aware, like me, can

976
00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:06,000
Speaker 3: you explain what the purpose of CASA is and what

977
00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:08,000
Speaker 3: kind of training volunteers go through.

978
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:11,880
Speaker 9: Yes, So just so you know that that statistic is

979
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:15,920
Speaker 9: a national average in some jurisdictions, possibly Clark County, and

980
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:19,879
Speaker 9: might even be less than that. So keep in mind

981
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:22,680
Speaker 9: that a child goes into foster care because he or

982
00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:27,239
Speaker 9: she is neglected and or abused, no fault of their own.

983
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:32,200
Speaker 9: First and foremost, there is no discrimination when it comes

984
00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:36,759
Speaker 9: to neglect and abuse and foster care. It's everyone. It's

985
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:41,680
Speaker 9: any child of any race, of any religion. Unfortunately, there's

986
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:46,640
Speaker 9: a high amount of disabled kids that go into foster

987
00:52:46,719 --> 00:52:50,880
Speaker 9: care because they're neglected and or abused. So kasa's a

988
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:54,279
Speaker 9: court appointed special advocate and in some areas it's a

989
00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:58,440
Speaker 9: guardian adltem. So CASA GAL it's a national organization and

990
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:03,000
Speaker 9: what we do is we train volunteers much like you guys.

991
00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:04,560
Speaker 10: So keep that in mind.

992
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:08,200
Speaker 9: Anybody over twenty one years old that can pass a

993
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:11,880
Speaker 9: background check, will you get trained about thirty hours of

994
00:53:11,920 --> 00:53:15,000
Speaker 9: training and then you're sworn in by the family court.

995
00:53:15,239 --> 00:53:17,360
Speaker 9: You take an oath, you're sworn in by the court,

996
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:20,520
Speaker 9: and then you get a court order that sets you

997
00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:23,720
Speaker 9: up with a foster child to advocate for that child.

998
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:26,480
Speaker 9: Now it could be a single child, it could be

999
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:30,919
Speaker 9: a sibling group. So I tell people all the time,

1000
00:53:31,080 --> 00:53:34,640
Speaker 9: guess what happens to foster children. They grow up, so

1001
00:53:34,719 --> 00:53:37,560
Speaker 9: they need somebody to step into their life and change

1002
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:40,480
Speaker 9: their story. It's up to us as a community to

1003
00:53:40,719 --> 00:53:43,160
Speaker 9: that if they're going to grow up mean, mad and angry,

1004
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:45,120
Speaker 9: or are they going to grow up with a high

1005
00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:49,719
Speaker 9: school diploma with a job with their vital documents. So

1006
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:51,759
Speaker 9: there's a lot of other statistics out there, like the

1007
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:55,160
Speaker 9: vital documents the kids won't have when they turn eighteen

1008
00:53:55,239 --> 00:53:55,680
Speaker 9: years old.

1009
00:53:56,080 --> 00:54:00,400
Speaker 4: Right, So can you explain, Pam, So, why are CAUSA

1010
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:04,400
Speaker 4: is so important in terms of consistency or what does

1011
00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:06,560
Speaker 4: it look like to be a CASA.

1012
00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:12,120
Speaker 9: So AKASA is most likely the only person in a

1013
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:16,120
Speaker 9: foster child's life that is consistent. I can tell you

1014
00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:20,799
Speaker 9: it is very very likely that the CASA volunteer is

1015
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:25,080
Speaker 9: the only person not paid in the child's life. I

1016
00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:28,720
Speaker 9: just spoke with an aged out foster child today who said,

1017
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:32,040
Speaker 9: in my foster journey, in my foster care journey, I

1018
00:54:32,080 --> 00:54:34,240
Speaker 9: had people coming in and out, in and out, rotating

1019
00:54:34,239 --> 00:54:36,839
Speaker 9: in and out. She said, my CASA was always there.

1020
00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:40,680
Speaker 9: So the court appointed special Advocate volunteer is the person

1021
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:44,640
Speaker 9: who is the consistent one, and that's the person that

1022
00:54:44,680 --> 00:54:49,640
Speaker 9: they fill, they can bond with, or that they have

1023
00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:52,560
Speaker 9: a relationship with, that they trust because that's the.

1024
00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:53,360
Speaker 10: One that's been there.

1025
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:57,640
Speaker 9: In Clark County, we ask our quarter point and special

1026
00:54:57,680 --> 00:55:01,480
Speaker 9: advocates to give a two year commitment, so when a

1027
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:05,479
Speaker 9: child is taken into foster care, their parents will get

1028
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:10,920
Speaker 9: possibly one a little bit more year to follow a

1029
00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:14,400
Speaker 9: process to get their child back, whether it's classes, whether

1030
00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:17,719
Speaker 9: it's some nonprofit work. They need to do whatever it

1031
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:20,960
Speaker 9: is to get their child back. However, not all kids

1032
00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:23,960
Speaker 9: are lucky. So as a court appointed special advocate, your

1033
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:28,000
Speaker 9: first mission is reunification. You were helping that child be

1034
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:32,120
Speaker 9: reunified with his family. If that is not available, and

1035
00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:35,680
Speaker 9: that is often the case, then our second mission is

1036
00:55:35,719 --> 00:55:40,239
Speaker 9: to get them adopted right, find an adoption, permanent home

1037
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:44,040
Speaker 9: for them, someone that will love them. If that's not

1038
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:48,760
Speaker 9: an option, often is aging out as the next well kinship.

1039
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:52,600
Speaker 9: I'm sorry, foster kinship kinship. They call it fictive kin

1040
00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:55,960
Speaker 9: whether it is a grandmother, an aunt, or even a

1041
00:55:56,080 --> 00:56:00,040
Speaker 9: very very close friend that will take the child and

1042
00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:04,439
Speaker 9: foster them until they turn eighteen. Other than that, it's

1043
00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:06,320
Speaker 9: age out and age out is tough.

1044
00:56:07,239 --> 00:56:09,880
Speaker 3: So age out means that they've been in foster homes.

1045
00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:13,120
Speaker 3: I know nothing about foster care, so keep this in mind.

1046
00:56:13,239 --> 00:56:16,120
Speaker 3: I'm like nothing, I know nothing. Does that mean they

1047
00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:17,400
Speaker 3: go from home to home?

1048
00:56:18,239 --> 00:56:22,279
Speaker 9: So the answer is kind of sort of yes. The

1049
00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:24,600
Speaker 9: reason is first, in, first and foremost. Keep in mind,

1050
00:56:24,640 --> 00:56:27,680
Speaker 9: this child did nothing to be where he was right,

1051
00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:30,400
Speaker 9: no fault of their own. So I'll take my case.

1052
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:33,239
Speaker 9: I had a sibling group of three. They're now grown

1053
00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:36,880
Speaker 9: up in adults. But when I got them, they had

1054
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:41,480
Speaker 9: already been in I believe their fifth foster home and

1055
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:47,960
Speaker 9: one year one year fifth foster home. Oh, so what

1056
00:56:48,120 --> 00:56:50,839
Speaker 9: happens is is a lot of these kids are very

1057
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:53,919
Speaker 9: very angry, and they're young because they don't know what's

1058
00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:55,560
Speaker 9: happening and.

1059
00:56:55,600 --> 00:56:59,520
Speaker 3: So too right, pardon, they're probably confused and that makes

1060
00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:03,040
Speaker 3: them angry and bitter, and yeah.

1061
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:03,680
Speaker 10: Very very confused.

1062
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:06,360
Speaker 9: They have several adults in their life telling them, telling

1063
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:08,040
Speaker 9: them where they're going to live, where they're going to

1064
00:57:08,120 --> 00:57:10,160
Speaker 9: go to school. When they move, they have to pack

1065
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:12,680
Speaker 9: their stuff in a trash bag, move off to move

1066
00:57:12,719 --> 00:57:16,520
Speaker 9: on to the next house for whatever reason. But the

1067
00:57:16,840 --> 00:57:20,440
Speaker 9: foster children imagine this and think, thank god, none of

1068
00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:23,560
Speaker 9: you have to, you know, realistically imagine this, but imagine

1069
00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:28,040
Speaker 9: you had no one to call for five dollars to

1070
00:57:28,080 --> 00:57:30,080
Speaker 9: borrow for gas, or no one to.

1071
00:57:30,080 --> 00:57:34,439
Speaker 10: Call, or nobody called you on your birthday. So that's

1072
00:57:34,440 --> 00:57:34,840
Speaker 10: what it is.

1073
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:37,400
Speaker 9: These kids literally have nothing. So what we try to

1074
00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:41,440
Speaker 9: do as court appoint and special advocates, we as volunteers,

1075
00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:46,440
Speaker 9: step into their life, advocate them through their foster care

1076
00:57:46,520 --> 00:57:49,000
Speaker 9: journey and be their voice in court.

1077
00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:53,600
Speaker 10: So that's what COSA does and what.

1078
00:57:54,120 --> 00:57:57,280
Speaker 4: I'm michael all tiered w A or excuse me, what

1079
00:57:57,520 --> 00:58:02,000
Speaker 4: happens in courts? Like what goes on? Because I like body,

1080
00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:04,680
Speaker 4: I am very thankful that I have not had to

1081
00:58:04,720 --> 00:58:07,000
Speaker 4: have this lived experience. But what does it look like

1082
00:58:07,240 --> 00:58:08,000
Speaker 4: in court?

1083
00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:11,840
Speaker 9: So that going to court? Sometimes kids will come to court,

1084
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:14,720
Speaker 9: but when you go to court on a foster care case,

1085
00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:17,280
Speaker 9: you are going to have the in our case, the

1086
00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:20,160
Speaker 9: Clark County Family Services, so you'll have the caseworker there.

1087
00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:23,560
Speaker 9: Sometimes you'll have the parents there. Sometimes the foster parent

1088
00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:27,400
Speaker 9: will be there, but attorneys will be there because each

1089
00:58:27,600 --> 00:58:32,800
Speaker 9: parent biological parents get an attorney, the children get an attorney,

1090
00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:34,520
Speaker 9: so attorneys.

1091
00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:34,560
Speaker 10: Will be there.

1092
00:58:34,720 --> 00:58:38,360
Speaker 9: The county will be there, sometimes the kids, sometimes the

1093
00:58:38,400 --> 00:58:41,800
Speaker 9: foster parents, sometimes the biological parents. It's not an easy

1094
00:58:41,840 --> 00:58:45,720
Speaker 9: situation for a child. The older the children are, the

1095
00:58:45,760 --> 00:58:48,720
Speaker 9: more likely it is their court point of special advocate

1096
00:58:48,760 --> 00:58:51,360
Speaker 9: will invite them to court and talk to the judge.

1097
00:58:51,480 --> 00:58:56,280
Speaker 9: The judges are very very aware that all of this

1098
00:58:56,440 --> 00:58:59,840
Speaker 9: is about the child, so sometimes they want to hear

1099
00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:02,440
Speaker 9: the child, but they definitely want to hear from the

1100
00:59:02,520 --> 00:59:05,840
Speaker 9: KASA because the costa volunteer has a different relationship with

1101
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:10,440
Speaker 9: the child, almost like an anti uncle type of relationship. Okay, However,

1102
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:13,480
Speaker 9: what they do is they speak what is in the

1103
00:59:13,520 --> 00:59:17,680
Speaker 9: best interest of the child, and while the case manager

1104
00:59:17,720 --> 00:59:20,920
Speaker 9: and everybody else is probably trying to do that. You

1105
00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:25,680
Speaker 9: have a lot of dynamics between foster parents, bioparents, attorneys

1106
00:59:25,880 --> 00:59:28,880
Speaker 9: and the kids, and so they're being called in every direction,

1107
00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:32,160
Speaker 9: whereas the cost of volunteer is really just looking out

1108
00:59:32,200 --> 00:59:32,640
Speaker 9: for what's.

1109
00:59:32,520 --> 00:59:33,760
Speaker 10: In the best interest of the child.

1110
00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:37,080
Speaker 3: That makes sense. So you so you're more the eyes

1111
00:59:37,120 --> 00:59:39,600
Speaker 3: and ears of the child to the court.

1112
00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:42,080
Speaker 10: Ding ding you hit it.

1113
00:59:42,720 --> 00:59:43,960
Speaker 4: Clients, let's say.

1114
00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:45,960
Speaker 3: I know that's kind of like a word that's kind

1115
00:59:45,960 --> 00:59:49,560
Speaker 3: of removed, but your client is the child, not necessarily

1116
00:59:49,560 --> 00:59:52,640
Speaker 3: the parents or the foster parents, but the child. The

1117
00:59:52,680 --> 00:59:55,400
Speaker 3: only you know, that's the only person you really are

1118
00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:57,600
Speaker 3: advocating for, is that child in that court.

1119
00:59:58,240 --> 01:00:02,280
Speaker 9: Yes, and the client, the client word is really between

1120
01:00:03,440 --> 01:00:05,080
Speaker 9: his attorney and the child.

1121
01:00:05,080 --> 01:00:05,760
Speaker 10: They're the client.

1122
01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:09,840
Speaker 9: We are literally the cost of volunteer, the court appointed

1123
01:00:09,880 --> 01:00:13,680
Speaker 9: special advocate, and we explain to them.

1124
01:00:14,040 --> 01:00:15,640
Speaker 10: That we're here because we want to be here.

1125
01:00:16,160 --> 01:00:16,880
Speaker 6: We're not paid.

1126
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:21,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're volunteers. Right, right, you have a yeah, no,

1127
01:00:21,360 --> 01:00:23,280
Speaker 3: you really really want to be there, and if you're

1128
01:00:23,320 --> 01:00:27,760
Speaker 3: not getting paid, you're clearly have the rights and needs

1129
01:00:27,760 --> 01:00:28,760
Speaker 3: of the child at heart.

1130
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:29,600
Speaker 5: Right.

1131
01:00:29,680 --> 01:00:32,280
Speaker 9: So court actually looks like if you've ever been into court,

1132
01:00:32,640 --> 01:00:35,400
Speaker 9: looks the same. Some of our courts have, you know,

1133
01:00:35,520 --> 01:00:37,760
Speaker 9: nice pictures on him, the superhero pictures on him and.

1134
01:00:37,760 --> 01:00:38,360
Speaker 10: Stuff like that.

1135
01:00:39,000 --> 01:00:42,520
Speaker 9: The judges in Clark County are very empathetic to the

1136
01:00:42,600 --> 01:00:46,440
Speaker 9: child if the child's in court, and very very interested

1137
01:00:46,680 --> 01:00:49,720
Speaker 9: in what the cost of volunteer has to say because

1138
01:00:49,840 --> 01:00:53,120
Speaker 9: again it's exactly what you said, we're advocating for the child.

1139
01:00:53,560 --> 01:00:56,400
Speaker 4: Oh man. I want to talk about where we're going

1140
01:00:56,480 --> 01:00:58,560
Speaker 4: to be at the end of our time soon, and

1141
01:00:58,600 --> 01:01:01,760
Speaker 4: we'll get into it more now segment, But I do

1142
01:01:01,840 --> 01:01:04,960
Speaker 4: want to talk about sort of the criminalization of trauma

1143
01:01:05,160 --> 01:01:08,439
Speaker 4: that happens while these kids are in the foster care

1144
01:01:08,480 --> 01:01:11,440
Speaker 4: because it's such a direct link to what is the outcome,

1145
01:01:11,480 --> 01:01:14,720
Speaker 4: as you said, kids grow up and how do we

1146
01:01:14,840 --> 01:01:18,480
Speaker 4: help create really a better society for all of ourselves.

1147
01:01:18,600 --> 01:01:20,360
Speaker 4: So I know we will be getting into that and

1148
01:01:20,520 --> 01:01:23,560
Speaker 4: stick around because Pamela Kendall will be with us and

1149
01:01:23,640 --> 01:01:25,720
Speaker 4: we're going to continue this sort of deep dive into

1150
01:01:25,720 --> 01:01:28,320
Speaker 4: the foster care system and what we can do keep

1151
01:01:28,320 --> 01:01:30,440
Speaker 4: it here a true crime Tonight, we're talking true crime

1152
01:01:30,560 --> 01:01:31,360
Speaker 4: all the time.

1153
01:01:42,080 --> 01:01:44,520
Speaker 3: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio, where we're

1154
01:01:44,520 --> 01:01:47,520
Speaker 3: talking true crime all the time. I'm body movin and

1155
01:01:47,520 --> 01:01:50,400
Speaker 3: I'm here with Courtney Armstrong and Stephanie Leidecker and we

1156
01:01:50,440 --> 01:01:54,280
Speaker 3: are very very fortunate to be joined by Pamela Kendall.

1157
01:01:54,360 --> 01:01:57,760
Speaker 3: She's the executive director of Champions for KASA here in

1158
01:01:57,800 --> 01:02:02,560
Speaker 3: Clark County, Nevada. KASA stands were court appointed special advocates,

1159
01:02:02,920 --> 01:02:06,240
Speaker 3: and we're learning all about the foster care to prison

1160
01:02:06,400 --> 01:02:11,760
Speaker 3: pipeline and how we can maybe stop that pipeline from flourishing. Courtney,

1161
01:02:11,840 --> 01:02:14,560
Speaker 3: what's on the agenda next, Well, i'd love.

1162
01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:17,680
Speaker 4: To hear you know you pim Now you're obviously the

1163
01:02:17,720 --> 01:02:21,040
Speaker 4: executive director for Champions of CASA, but you also were

1164
01:02:21,080 --> 01:02:24,320
Speaker 4: a volunteer and I'd love maybe if you have a

1165
01:02:24,360 --> 01:02:28,320
Speaker 4: personal experience that would be illustrative to people.

1166
01:02:28,680 --> 01:02:29,000
Speaker 6: Sure.

1167
01:02:29,200 --> 01:02:32,000
Speaker 9: So, my very first case a case as a child

1168
01:02:32,120 --> 01:02:34,600
Speaker 9: or a sibling group. My very first case was a

1169
01:02:34,600 --> 01:02:39,320
Speaker 9: sibling group of three and my middle child was the

1170
01:02:39,360 --> 01:02:44,520
Speaker 9: only one not diagnosed with add ADHD or all of

1171
01:02:44,520 --> 01:02:47,320
Speaker 9: those things, and not on medication. But he was a

1172
01:02:47,320 --> 01:02:50,000
Speaker 9: ten year old child that was pretty angry, pretty mean,

1173
01:02:50,200 --> 01:02:52,760
Speaker 9: did a lot of things that a ten year old

1174
01:02:52,760 --> 01:02:56,760
Speaker 9: would do, and he ran away one day. So when

1175
01:02:56,800 --> 01:02:59,200
Speaker 9: they run away, it's very scary for the foster parent

1176
01:02:59,240 --> 01:03:01,680
Speaker 9: because they are in the child. So when the child

1177
01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:03,800
Speaker 9: runs away, the first thing they do is call the police.

1178
01:03:04,400 --> 01:03:08,880
Speaker 9: When Amelio ran away, he didn't have shoes on him.

1179
01:03:08,920 --> 01:03:10,560
Speaker 9: He was walking in the street and you know in

1180
01:03:10,600 --> 01:03:12,680
Speaker 9: the summertime how hot it gets in Las Vegas.

1181
01:03:14,280 --> 01:03:17,640
Speaker 10: You're right. A young girl, I think she was about.

1182
01:03:17,440 --> 01:03:20,360
Speaker 9: Seventeen maybe nineteen years old, picked him up and said,

1183
01:03:20,360 --> 01:03:21,280
Speaker 9: what are you doing in the street?

1184
01:03:21,320 --> 01:03:22,120
Speaker 10: Get in my car.

1185
01:03:23,320 --> 01:03:26,040
Speaker 9: And she asked him, is there someone I can call

1186
01:03:26,120 --> 01:03:28,600
Speaker 9: for you? Well, my phone number is very easy, and

1187
01:03:28,640 --> 01:03:30,400
Speaker 9: I kept my phone over all these years because it's

1188
01:03:30,520 --> 01:03:32,920
Speaker 9: very easy, and I would drill it into the kid's heads.

1189
01:03:33,160 --> 01:03:36,640
Speaker 9: So he said, yes, call my cossa volunteer. So she

1190
01:03:36,760 --> 01:03:39,280
Speaker 9: called her dad and said, hey, Dad, what do I do?

1191
01:03:39,360 --> 01:03:41,440
Speaker 9: Who happened to be an attorney and said, call the

1192
01:03:41,520 --> 01:03:45,160
Speaker 9: cause a volunteer. She called me and I said, get

1193
01:03:45,240 --> 01:03:46,880
Speaker 9: him back home. I'll be right there.

1194
01:03:47,400 --> 01:03:48,480
Speaker 10: So I rushed over there.

1195
01:03:49,000 --> 01:03:52,120
Speaker 9: I rolled up, saw the police, three different police cars,

1196
01:03:52,280 --> 01:03:55,640
Speaker 9: a foster mom outside talking, and Amelio, the ten year old,

1197
01:03:56,360 --> 01:03:59,080
Speaker 9: standing on the driveway. And I went right to him

1198
01:03:59,200 --> 01:04:02,600
Speaker 9: and I nailed down and I hugged him and I

1199
01:04:02,640 --> 01:04:06,360
Speaker 9: whispered in his ear and I said, Amelio, next time

1200
01:04:06,440 --> 01:04:10,720
Speaker 9: wear shoes. Because what he needed that day was an

1201
01:04:10,720 --> 01:04:14,360
Speaker 9: ally right. He needed a friend, he needed someone on

1202
01:04:14,400 --> 01:04:18,400
Speaker 9: his side. So what he didn't need was someone come

1203
01:04:18,440 --> 01:04:20,320
Speaker 9: up and yelling at him again. Because this is what

1204
01:04:20,440 --> 01:04:24,400
Speaker 9: the kids deal with, people ordering them, yelling at them,

1205
01:04:24,640 --> 01:04:27,560
Speaker 9: talking at them. His brother one day when I was visiting,

1206
01:04:28,240 --> 01:04:31,200
Speaker 9: went to pick them up. His brother was fourteen, and

1207
01:04:31,240 --> 01:04:32,800
Speaker 9: I turned around and looked at him and he had

1208
01:04:32,800 --> 01:04:36,400
Speaker 9: tears rolling down his face, and I said, Berta, what's

1209
01:04:36,440 --> 01:04:39,280
Speaker 9: wrong And he just looked at me, crying and saying,

1210
01:04:39,440 --> 01:04:42,760
Speaker 9: I'm just tired of being yelled at. So these kids

1211
01:04:43,080 --> 01:04:45,840
Speaker 9: not only are there because they didn't do anything, but

1212
01:04:45,840 --> 01:04:48,200
Speaker 9: they're there because they were neglected and abused, and now

1213
01:04:48,240 --> 01:04:49,120
Speaker 9: they're being yelled at.

1214
01:04:49,160 --> 01:04:51,520
Speaker 10: Now they're being ordered, now, the police are being called.

1215
01:04:51,280 --> 01:04:55,080
Speaker 9: On them, and they have no one unless they have

1216
01:04:55,120 --> 01:04:58,560
Speaker 9: a quarter appointed special advocate to reach out to no

1217
01:04:58,600 --> 01:05:01,040
Speaker 9: one on their side. So what do you think is

1218
01:05:01,080 --> 01:05:02,680
Speaker 9: going to happen as they grow up?

1219
01:05:02,920 --> 01:05:05,280
Speaker 3: So this little Melio's in the driveway and all these

1220
01:05:05,320 --> 01:05:07,920
Speaker 3: cop cars are around. He's probably scared and he probably

1221
01:05:08,000 --> 01:05:11,560
Speaker 3: needed you at that moment right to just be normal, right,

1222
01:05:11,640 --> 01:05:13,840
Speaker 3: give him a little hug, eight, put some shoes on,

1223
01:05:13,960 --> 01:05:16,880
Speaker 3: like just like a normal adult. That was really kind

1224
01:05:16,920 --> 01:05:18,560
Speaker 3: of you, and I'm glad you were there for him.

1225
01:05:19,160 --> 01:05:21,000
Speaker 10: Oh thank you. But I agree that.

1226
01:05:21,360 --> 01:05:24,360
Speaker 9: Yes, imagine as we're growing up and we have teachers

1227
01:05:24,440 --> 01:05:27,440
Speaker 9: or coaches and parents. One yells at us, and then

1228
01:05:27,960 --> 01:05:29,880
Speaker 9: your dad comes home and he yells at you two

1229
01:05:29,960 --> 01:05:32,360
Speaker 9: hours later, and you're like, come on, this is constant

1230
01:05:32,360 --> 01:05:32,800
Speaker 9: for them.

1231
01:05:33,320 --> 01:05:35,960
Speaker 3: Say, well, I have the ad benefit of not having

1232
01:05:36,000 --> 01:05:38,640
Speaker 3: a bunch of police cars in the driveway either. That's

1233
01:05:38,640 --> 01:05:41,120
Speaker 3: pretty scary for a little boy too, that they called

1234
01:05:41,120 --> 01:05:42,600
Speaker 3: the cops on me, right.

1235
01:05:43,160 --> 01:05:47,200
Speaker 4: Oh correct, I mean that's scary for anyone. You mentioned

1236
01:05:47,320 --> 01:05:50,160
Speaker 4: that if your kids was fourteen at the time that

1237
01:05:50,280 --> 01:05:54,080
Speaker 4: you just mentioned, and also when you were talking earlier,

1238
01:05:54,400 --> 01:05:56,800
Speaker 4: so that was kind of the age that kids begin

1239
01:05:56,920 --> 01:06:00,480
Speaker 4: to age out and need to start learning about jobations

1240
01:06:00,480 --> 01:06:02,960
Speaker 4: and et cetera. Can you just kind of it was

1241
01:06:02,960 --> 01:06:06,520
Speaker 4: so such things I hadn't thought of, Like you don't

1242
01:06:06,560 --> 01:06:10,080
Speaker 4: have someone who what is your social Security number? Like

1243
01:06:10,320 --> 01:06:12,120
Speaker 4: what is some of the stuff that you impart on

1244
01:06:12,200 --> 01:06:15,600
Speaker 4: kids that many foster kids who don't have causes are

1245
01:06:15,840 --> 01:06:19,640
Speaker 4: put out into the world without this most basic of information.

1246
01:06:20,400 --> 01:06:24,120
Speaker 9: So, as a quarter pointed special advocate volunteer, what we

1247
01:06:24,240 --> 01:06:27,520
Speaker 9: will do when a child begins to age out because

1248
01:06:27,560 --> 01:06:30,200
Speaker 9: of the support that we have, especially with Champions for

1249
01:06:30,280 --> 01:06:32,960
Speaker 9: KASA and the things that we do here in Clark County.

1250
01:06:33,360 --> 01:06:35,760
Speaker 9: We will ensure that that child does get a high

1251
01:06:35,760 --> 01:06:38,680
Speaker 9: school diploma, that if that child is behind in school,

1252
01:06:38,720 --> 01:06:42,480
Speaker 9: they do get tutoring. So that's the first thing. Secondly,

1253
01:06:42,800 --> 01:06:45,480
Speaker 9: we ensure that they get an ID. Maybe they don't

1254
01:06:45,480 --> 01:06:48,760
Speaker 9: get a driver's license, that's something that's a whole other show,

1255
01:06:49,400 --> 01:06:53,040
Speaker 9: but maybe they get an ID. They get we make

1256
01:06:53,080 --> 01:06:55,520
Speaker 9: sure they get their birth certificate, We make sure that

1257
01:06:55,560 --> 01:06:58,240
Speaker 9: they have their Social Security card and what that means.

1258
01:06:58,280 --> 01:07:01,240
Speaker 9: What is a Social Security number? So as we're growing

1259
01:07:01,320 --> 01:07:03,680
Speaker 9: up with as and we're not foster children, but as

1260
01:07:03,720 --> 01:07:06,280
Speaker 9: we're growing up, we're learning how to.

1261
01:07:06,240 --> 01:07:07,160
Speaker 10: Fill out an application.

1262
01:07:07,240 --> 01:07:09,760
Speaker 9: I remember my dad saying, go get a job, bring

1263
01:07:09,800 --> 01:07:12,040
Speaker 9: home the applications, and we fill them out. And I

1264
01:07:12,120 --> 01:07:14,479
Speaker 9: still have these young kids calling me up going what's

1265
01:07:14,520 --> 01:07:17,560
Speaker 9: a W four whatever, And I'm like, oh my gosh.

1266
01:07:17,840 --> 01:07:21,479
Speaker 9: So they don't learn these things that we all did

1267
01:07:21,520 --> 01:07:25,280
Speaker 9: and do. So that's what an advocate does. We kind

1268
01:07:25,280 --> 01:07:26,440
Speaker 9: of guide them through that.

1269
01:07:27,080 --> 01:07:31,040
Speaker 4: And another example, even more basic that you had said

1270
01:07:31,320 --> 01:07:34,280
Speaker 4: was kids who are not growing up in foster care.

1271
01:07:34,680 --> 01:07:38,240
Speaker 4: They're taught about hygiene, they're taught. Can you even talk

1272
01:07:38,280 --> 01:07:40,880
Speaker 4: about the basics? And then what that means when you

1273
01:07:40,960 --> 01:07:43,840
Speaker 4: are at eighteen you are let loose without the most

1274
01:07:43,920 --> 01:07:45,480
Speaker 4: basic of knowledge.

1275
01:07:46,120 --> 01:07:49,240
Speaker 9: So children who come through the foster care system, and

1276
01:07:49,280 --> 01:07:52,240
Speaker 9: we discussed, you know, how they're treated. And I hate

1277
01:07:52,280 --> 01:07:54,360
Speaker 9: to say it that way because I always want to

1278
01:07:54,360 --> 01:07:57,080
Speaker 9: say that foster parents I adore them and I'm so

1279
01:07:57,120 --> 01:08:01,160
Speaker 9: happy because they're doing what bioparents did and do right.

1280
01:08:01,680 --> 01:08:03,360
Speaker 9: But at the end of the day, when a child

1281
01:08:03,360 --> 01:08:07,160
Speaker 9: turns eighteen, they are they do get that taste of freedom,

1282
01:08:07,480 --> 01:08:09,920
Speaker 9: but you know, they never had the opportunity to learn

1283
01:08:10,040 --> 01:08:11,080
Speaker 9: to shower every day.

1284
01:08:11,080 --> 01:08:13,000
Speaker 10: In fact, I had a.

1285
01:08:12,920 --> 01:08:16,240
Speaker 9: Foster child his roommates were complaining about him. He was

1286
01:08:16,280 --> 01:08:18,000
Speaker 9: an age olt foster child, and I had to get

1287
01:08:18,040 --> 01:08:19,560
Speaker 9: him on the phone, and he goes well. In my

1288
01:08:19,640 --> 01:08:21,479
Speaker 9: foster care home, we were only allowed to take a

1289
01:08:21,479 --> 01:08:23,320
Speaker 9: shower once a day, once a week.

1290
01:08:23,880 --> 01:08:24,479
Speaker 3: Oh my god.

1291
01:08:25,160 --> 01:08:29,320
Speaker 9: Sometimes they're not taught hygiene. They're not taught to brush

1292
01:08:29,360 --> 01:08:32,519
Speaker 9: their teeth. Sometimes if they leave a home, they left

1293
01:08:32,560 --> 01:08:35,880
Speaker 9: their toothbrush and they won't get another toothbrush, or you know,

1294
01:08:35,960 --> 01:08:39,920
Speaker 9: maybe maybe not honestly, hygiene manners. These things that are

1295
01:08:39,920 --> 01:08:43,240
Speaker 9: important to us, that are important to employers, are not

1296
01:08:43,439 --> 01:08:48,960
Speaker 9: important to foster parents necessarily. Because let's say a foster

1297
01:08:49,080 --> 01:08:54,280
Speaker 9: parent has three kids. That's three case managers, that's three attorneys.

1298
01:08:54,680 --> 01:08:57,000
Speaker 9: That's maybe, if they're lucky, they all have a quarter

1299
01:08:57,040 --> 01:09:00,320
Speaker 9: point a special advocate. That's three costs of volunteers. If

1300
01:09:00,320 --> 01:09:03,360
Speaker 9: they're aging out now they have independent living workers. They

1301
01:09:03,400 --> 01:09:05,439
Speaker 9: all have to go to therapy, they all have to

1302
01:09:05,479 --> 01:09:09,200
Speaker 9: go to school, So teaching them manners is not a priority.

1303
01:09:09,479 --> 01:09:12,280
Speaker 3: You're listening to true crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

1304
01:09:12,320 --> 01:09:14,120
Speaker 3: true crime all the time. We're right in the middle

1305
01:09:14,120 --> 01:09:17,720
Speaker 3: of talking to Pamela Kendall. She's the executive director for

1306
01:09:17,840 --> 01:09:21,639
Speaker 3: Champions for CASA in Clark County, Nevada, and we're learning

1307
01:09:21,680 --> 01:09:25,439
Speaker 3: all about the foster care to prison pipeline and what

1308
01:09:25,479 --> 01:09:28,240
Speaker 3: we can do to break that pipe, right, what we

1309
01:09:28,280 --> 01:09:30,320
Speaker 3: can do to smash that pipe with a hammer and

1310
01:09:30,360 --> 01:09:33,840
Speaker 3: get rid of it so that we create successful and

1311
01:09:34,080 --> 01:09:36,960
Speaker 3: healthy and happy adults, Right, mam. Can you talk about

1312
01:09:37,000 --> 01:09:39,559
Speaker 3: what happens to kid when they turn eighteen in the

1313
01:09:39,560 --> 01:09:40,559
Speaker 3: foster care system?

1314
01:09:40,920 --> 01:09:41,160
Speaker 10: Yes.

1315
01:09:41,400 --> 01:09:43,920
Speaker 9: So, traditionally, when a child turns eighteen and he's in

1316
01:09:43,960 --> 01:09:46,320
Speaker 9: the foster care or she's in the foster care system,

1317
01:09:46,600 --> 01:09:49,360
Speaker 9: they are free to go. A lot of times foster

1318
01:09:49,439 --> 01:09:53,760
Speaker 9: parents that's when they're stipend stops for taking. So in

1319
01:09:53,800 --> 01:09:57,599
Speaker 9: my case, my Alberto that I mentioned earlier, got dropped

1320
01:09:57,600 --> 01:10:02,439
Speaker 9: off downtown eleven dollars in his cell phone. No became

1321
01:10:02,479 --> 01:10:06,200
Speaker 9: homeless until we found him and things are awesome now.

1322
01:10:06,280 --> 01:10:07,519
Speaker 10: But that's what happens.

1323
01:10:07,920 --> 01:10:10,040
Speaker 9: I have received a call when I was working with

1324
01:10:10,080 --> 01:10:12,960
Speaker 9: the aged out kids. I received a call saying, hey,

1325
01:10:13,000 --> 01:10:16,639
Speaker 9: can you help a child Today's eighteenth birthday. He's standing

1326
01:10:16,680 --> 01:10:19,800
Speaker 9: on the corner of he was at Reno and El

1327
01:10:19,880 --> 01:10:23,360
Speaker 9: Camino or something. I go, where's that and the case

1328
01:10:23,400 --> 01:10:29,320
Speaker 9: manager said downtown And it was July and we managed

1329
01:10:29,360 --> 01:10:30,720
Speaker 9: to go get him, We managed to feed him and

1330
01:10:30,760 --> 01:10:31,320
Speaker 9: things like that.

1331
01:10:31,560 --> 01:10:33,879
Speaker 10: But what happens to them on their eighteenth birthday?

1332
01:10:34,280 --> 01:10:38,200
Speaker 9: Usually they are free to be the adult right eighteen

1333
01:10:38,280 --> 01:10:40,320
Speaker 9: years old magic number. Even my kids couldn't wait to

1334
01:10:40,439 --> 01:10:43,280
Speaker 9: leave home right when they're eighteen until eighteen happened and

1335
01:10:43,320 --> 01:10:46,519
Speaker 9: they were still in high school. But the children, that's

1336
01:10:46,520 --> 01:10:49,640
Speaker 9: not the case. It's a deadline and a lot of

1337
01:10:49,680 --> 01:10:53,000
Speaker 9: times they do get sent out and they become homeless.

1338
01:10:53,000 --> 01:10:55,519
Speaker 9: That's where the statistic comes in. The courtney mentioned and

1339
01:10:55,560 --> 01:10:58,360
Speaker 9: they're on their own now. The problem is when they're

1340
01:10:58,360 --> 01:11:01,200
Speaker 9: on their own, if they didn't of an adult to

1341
01:11:01,320 --> 01:11:05,000
Speaker 9: advocate for them, they will likely not have a birth certificate,

1342
01:11:05,400 --> 01:11:08,840
Speaker 9: a Social Security card, an ID, they will likely not

1343
01:11:09,040 --> 01:11:11,880
Speaker 9: have clothes to go to an interview. So when we're

1344
01:11:11,880 --> 01:11:16,799
Speaker 9: talking about this right or an address or an address

1345
01:11:17,320 --> 01:11:19,920
Speaker 9: or you know, how to do an interview. I literally

1346
01:11:19,960 --> 01:11:22,880
Speaker 9: had a twenty year old send me his resume with

1347
01:11:23,040 --> 01:11:26,439
Speaker 9: three sentences on it and not one of them was his.

1348
01:11:26,479 --> 01:11:27,960
Speaker 10: Name or address or phone number.

1349
01:11:28,640 --> 01:11:30,760
Speaker 9: So at the end of the day, what if we

1350
01:11:30,880 --> 01:11:34,200
Speaker 9: don't step into a child's life before he is what

1351
01:11:34,280 --> 01:11:36,640
Speaker 9: I call set free, what do we think he's going

1352
01:11:36,720 --> 01:11:38,439
Speaker 9: to do standing on a corner.

1353
01:11:38,920 --> 01:11:41,599
Speaker 3: He can't even charge his phone and it's one hundred

1354
01:11:41,600 --> 01:11:44,280
Speaker 3: and seventeen degrees out in July in Las Vegas. Right,

1355
01:11:44,320 --> 01:11:46,960
Speaker 3: I mean, you might do some things to cool down,

1356
01:11:47,080 --> 01:11:50,280
Speaker 3: get some food, you know, get some stability, even like,

1357
01:11:50,360 --> 01:11:53,559
Speaker 3: you might do some things that might violate the law, right,

1358
01:11:53,600 --> 01:11:55,280
Speaker 3: and you might become a criminal.

1359
01:11:55,520 --> 01:11:56,040
Speaker 5: For sure.

1360
01:11:56,439 --> 01:11:59,120
Speaker 9: I have a child at an age. Olt foster child

1361
01:11:59,120 --> 01:12:02,640
Speaker 9: come to me at eighteen yearsyears old. He was at sixteen.

1362
01:12:02,800 --> 01:12:06,360
Speaker 9: He did a carjacking at eighteen. He came to me.

1363
01:12:06,680 --> 01:12:08,639
Speaker 9: I said, let's clean this up. We're going to clean

1364
01:12:08,680 --> 01:12:10,240
Speaker 9: this up. We're going to start a new Let's clean

1365
01:12:10,280 --> 01:12:14,280
Speaker 9: up this warrant. Unfortunately, there was minimal compassion in the

1366
01:12:14,320 --> 01:12:16,559
Speaker 9: court and he was sentenced to ten days in jail.

1367
01:12:16,760 --> 01:12:18,280
Speaker 9: At the end of that ten days, I said, you know,

1368
01:12:18,920 --> 01:12:20,160
Speaker 9: we're starting over.

1369
01:12:20,240 --> 01:12:20,760
Speaker 10: All is new.

1370
01:12:21,160 --> 01:12:24,599
Speaker 9: He was mad, he was angry. He was the whole

1371
01:12:24,640 --> 01:12:29,720
Speaker 9: momentum that we had going before jail was gone. So

1372
01:12:29,880 --> 01:12:31,639
Speaker 9: I turned and looked at him and I said, hey,

1373
01:12:32,320 --> 01:12:35,040
Speaker 9: what did you do? So he told me he carjacked

1374
01:12:35,120 --> 01:12:37,800
Speaker 9: or whatever that's called. And I said, would you have

1375
01:12:37,840 --> 01:12:39,680
Speaker 9: done that to me? And he looked at me and

1376
01:12:39,680 --> 01:12:41,320
Speaker 9: he goes, no, And I said why he goes cause

1377
01:12:41,320 --> 01:12:43,479
Speaker 9: you do have a Ford explorer and I said, so

1378
01:12:43,800 --> 01:12:47,120
Speaker 9: He's like, no, I needed money for food, so I

1379
01:12:47,280 --> 01:12:51,080
Speaker 9: jacked a g wagon and I was like, wow, he

1380
01:12:51,120 --> 01:12:54,760
Speaker 9: needed money for food, so he carjacked. I mean we

1381
01:12:54,800 --> 01:12:56,280
Speaker 9: see him all day long on the side of the

1382
01:12:56,360 --> 01:12:59,360
Speaker 9: road with signs right need food or whatever. We see

1383
01:12:59,400 --> 01:13:01,680
Speaker 9: him all day long. I guarantee you when you see

1384
01:13:01,720 --> 01:13:03,680
Speaker 9: a young child foster.

1385
01:13:03,439 --> 01:13:06,680
Speaker 4: Care and I mean, they're just it's literally with all

1386
01:13:06,720 --> 01:13:10,759
Speaker 4: these things stacked against them, it's just it seems almost

1387
01:13:10,880 --> 01:13:15,439
Speaker 4: unsurmountable without people stepping in and providing things that have been,

1388
01:13:15,880 --> 01:13:19,479
Speaker 4: you know, lacking to that end. Can you tell us

1389
01:13:19,680 --> 01:13:22,120
Speaker 4: what is going on? I believe you got a big

1390
01:13:22,160 --> 01:13:27,120
Speaker 4: grant for the KASA Center and talk about why it's important.

1391
01:13:27,520 --> 01:13:28,439
Speaker 10: Thank you for asking.

1392
01:13:29,040 --> 01:13:33,160
Speaker 9: So we have the KASA Connection Center here in Las Vegas, Nevada.

1393
01:13:33,240 --> 01:13:35,840
Speaker 9: It's the only one of its kind in the state,

1394
01:13:36,560 --> 01:13:39,040
Speaker 9: maybe the country. I'm not one hundred percent sure, but

1395
01:13:39,120 --> 01:13:41,439
Speaker 9: what it was happening was so. As the executive director

1396
01:13:41,479 --> 01:13:46,240
Speaker 9: of Champions for KASA, I am tasked with recruiting, retaining,

1397
01:13:46,560 --> 01:13:50,479
Speaker 9: and recognizing our COSSA volunteers. There's when you're a KASA

1398
01:13:50,520 --> 01:13:53,759
Speaker 9: volunteer and you have an order to go and bond

1399
01:13:53,800 --> 01:13:54,479
Speaker 9: with a child.

1400
01:13:54,800 --> 01:13:55,280
Speaker 6: What do you do?

1401
01:13:55,360 --> 01:13:57,240
Speaker 9: You're allowed to take that child out, but where do

1402
01:13:57,280 --> 01:13:59,479
Speaker 9: you go? Where do you take your own children? Maybe

1403
01:13:59,479 --> 01:14:01,280
Speaker 9: you take them to movies, or you take them to eat,

1404
01:14:01,600 --> 01:14:05,160
Speaker 9: or you take them to the mall. Well, yeah, these

1405
01:14:05,280 --> 01:14:08,400
Speaker 9: children are like every other children. They eat, they want

1406
01:14:08,400 --> 01:14:11,080
Speaker 9: something from the mall, they want the popcorn. Well, I

1407
01:14:11,080 --> 01:14:12,880
Speaker 9: don't know if you've been to the movies lately, but

1408
01:14:12,960 --> 01:14:15,680
Speaker 9: it's not unusual for movies or food to be one

1409
01:14:15,760 --> 01:14:19,960
Speaker 9: hundred dollars bill. As training for our quarter point of

1410
01:14:20,000 --> 01:14:23,040
Speaker 9: special advocates, they go through that thirty hour training and

1411
01:14:23,439 --> 01:14:27,320
Speaker 9: what was happening was I noticed, as we're recruiting, because

1412
01:14:27,320 --> 01:14:29,320
Speaker 9: the heart is ready and the time is right, for

1413
01:14:29,360 --> 01:14:32,519
Speaker 9: a lot of people we're recruiting, they're going through the training,

1414
01:14:32,680 --> 01:14:35,679
Speaker 9: they get a case, it either reunifies or it gets adopted,

1415
01:14:36,040 --> 01:14:38,640
Speaker 9: and they never take a second case. And so I

1416
01:14:38,760 --> 01:14:40,840
Speaker 9: was asking them, why aren't you taking a second case.

1417
01:14:41,200 --> 01:14:43,880
Speaker 9: It's too expensive. I can't afford it.

1418
01:14:46,120 --> 01:14:47,040
Speaker 10: I said, we got to stop.

1419
01:14:47,360 --> 01:14:50,120
Speaker 9: So we got a grant from an anonymous donor who

1420
01:14:50,320 --> 01:14:55,479
Speaker 9: enabled us to build a homelike environment where quarter point

1421
01:14:55,479 --> 01:14:58,519
Speaker 9: of special advocates can bring their children and hang out.

1422
01:14:59,280 --> 01:15:03,559
Speaker 9: So in this in this environment and anybody's always welcome

1423
01:15:03,600 --> 01:15:05,920
Speaker 9: to come to it. I love to give tours. We

1424
01:15:06,000 --> 01:15:08,040
Speaker 9: have a couple of different rooms. One of the rooms

1425
01:15:08,200 --> 01:15:11,559
Speaker 9: is a quiet room, and the quiet room was invented,

1426
01:15:11,600 --> 01:15:13,840
Speaker 9: if you will, because one of our quota pointed Special

1427
01:15:13,840 --> 01:15:18,000
Speaker 9: advocates was sitting in Starbucks with her KASA kid who

1428
01:15:18,080 --> 01:15:22,360
Speaker 9: started to open up for the first time about her abuse.

1429
01:15:22,720 --> 01:15:26,200
Speaker 9: It was bad abuse, and she said, and creepy Joe

1430
01:15:26,240 --> 01:15:28,880
Speaker 9: was listening. So we had to finish the conversation in

1431
01:15:28,920 --> 01:15:32,320
Speaker 9: my car, and so we invented the quiet room where

1432
01:15:32,360 --> 01:15:35,200
Speaker 9: you can go and have intimate conversations. A child can

1433
01:15:35,240 --> 01:15:37,280
Speaker 9: go in there and study with you. So we have

1434
01:15:37,320 --> 01:15:39,720
Speaker 9: the Quiet Room. We also have a giving room, and

1435
01:15:39,760 --> 01:15:43,920
Speaker 9: the giving room is all donated items, brand new that

1436
01:15:44,240 --> 01:15:47,519
Speaker 9: KASA volunteers can come in and grab anything they want.

1437
01:15:47,560 --> 01:15:50,200
Speaker 9: There's toys, there's hygiene items and give them to their

1438
01:15:50,280 --> 01:15:52,040
Speaker 9: KASA kid and they can even take them home to

1439
01:15:52,080 --> 01:15:55,559
Speaker 9: the other foster kids in the home. But the whole

1440
01:15:55,680 --> 01:15:59,000
Speaker 9: building has a kitchen, it has sections, it has a

1441
01:15:59,040 --> 01:16:01,280
Speaker 9: game room for kids and they can come and hang out.

1442
01:16:01,280 --> 01:16:04,200
Speaker 9: They can watch movies, play games, do art, and it

1443
01:16:04,320 --> 01:16:07,160
Speaker 9: is really an environment where kids are crying when they

1444
01:16:07,240 --> 01:16:08,559
Speaker 9: leave because they don't want to leave.

1445
01:16:09,120 --> 01:16:10,440
Speaker 10: So it's successful.

1446
01:16:11,439 --> 01:16:14,720
Speaker 4: It sounds so wonderful, just that little bit of normalcy,

1447
01:16:15,080 --> 01:16:19,200
Speaker 4: really and just that bit and you can really understand

1448
01:16:19,320 --> 01:16:22,519
Speaker 4: how that can change a child's life, along with these

1449
01:16:22,560 --> 01:16:23,880
Speaker 4: relationships with first.

1450
01:16:23,720 --> 01:16:26,280
Speaker 3: One of those little moments can really change its life.

1451
01:16:26,360 --> 01:16:30,719
Speaker 4: Yeah right, well, listen, Pam. We can't thank you enough

1452
01:16:30,880 --> 01:16:34,880
Speaker 4: for bringing our attention to the Kasa Foundation and all

1453
01:16:34,920 --> 01:16:39,200
Speaker 4: of the above, and listen. Anyone who is listening, who

1454
01:16:39,240 --> 01:16:42,280
Speaker 4: wants to learn more, who wants to help, you can

1455
01:16:42,320 --> 01:16:48,120
Speaker 4: go to championsfarkasa dot org or Instagram at champions for

1456
01:16:48,240 --> 01:16:52,479
Speaker 4: Kasa or Facebook if you're old like me, Champions for Kasa.

1457
01:16:53,479 --> 01:16:57,160
Speaker 4: So check it out. My eyes are opened and I'm

1458
01:16:57,439 --> 01:17:00,240
Speaker 4: ready to start in March. So thank you again, Pam,

1459
01:17:00,400 --> 01:17:02,960
Speaker 4: and stick around. We have a lot more to dig into.

1460
01:17:03,439 --> 01:17:06,439
Speaker 4: You've been flooding our dms, so we're going to get

1461
01:17:06,600 --> 01:17:09,040
Speaker 4: all up in there. Keep it here. True crime tonight,

1462
01:17:09,080 --> 01:17:22,160
Speaker 4: We're talking true crime all the time. Welcome back to

1463
01:17:22,160 --> 01:17:24,759
Speaker 4: True Crime tonight. We're on iHeartRadio and we are talking

1464
01:17:24,760 --> 01:17:28,639
Speaker 4: true crime all the time. I'm so excited, I'm stumbling

1465
01:17:28,640 --> 01:17:31,479
Speaker 4: on my words. I'm Courtney Armstrong, so lucky to be

1466
01:17:31,600 --> 01:17:34,000
Speaker 4: here with my buddy Body move in as well as

1467
01:17:34,000 --> 01:17:37,200
Speaker 4: Stephanie Leidecker and listen. If you've missed any part of

1468
01:17:37,240 --> 01:17:41,000
Speaker 4: the show, always catch the podcast. And also you can

1469
01:17:41,040 --> 01:17:43,719
Speaker 4: get with us on our socials at True Crime Tonight's

1470
01:17:43,720 --> 01:17:49,880
Speaker 4: Show or TikTok and instagram at true Crime Tonight on Facebook. Okay,

1471
01:17:50,240 --> 01:17:53,439
Speaker 4: let's get into some dms, shall we tell.

1472
01:17:53,880 --> 01:17:56,080
Speaker 8: I would love that we keep getting so many great

1473
01:17:56,160 --> 01:17:56,960
Speaker 8: dms that.

1474
01:17:57,320 --> 01:17:58,080
Speaker 4: I love the dms.

1475
01:17:58,120 --> 01:18:01,240
Speaker 3: I don't know why, but I I know Morton filtered.

1476
01:18:01,560 --> 01:18:07,240
Speaker 6: You're right, Yeah, it's easy. I love them. All Right.

1477
01:18:07,320 --> 01:18:10,200
Speaker 8: Well, here's one and I think Body, you're going to

1478
01:18:10,439 --> 01:18:12,799
Speaker 8: love this one because it has to do with music

1479
01:18:13,040 --> 01:18:17,360
Speaker 8: and rock. So this is from Spencer, and Spencer said, hey, guys,

1480
01:18:17,640 --> 01:18:20,400
Speaker 8: love the idea of Sam covering rock and roll murders.

1481
01:18:20,800 --> 01:18:23,040
Speaker 8: She's referring to the other day that Sam caught on

1482
01:18:23,200 --> 01:18:25,799
Speaker 8: and mentioned how he'd love us to cover some rock bands.

1483
01:18:26,240 --> 01:18:26,959
Speaker 6: Have a suggestion.

1484
01:18:27,280 --> 01:18:30,120
Speaker 8: It ties in with Kurt Cobain too, y'all should look

1485
01:18:30,120 --> 01:18:33,639
Speaker 8: into the murder of Mia Zappata. She was the lead

1486
01:18:33,680 --> 01:18:36,240
Speaker 8: singer of a Seattle band, the Gets, and she was

1487
01:18:36,280 --> 01:18:39,040
Speaker 8: good friends with Kirk Cobain and the Gets open for

1488
01:18:39,160 --> 01:18:42,639
Speaker 8: Nirvana a few times. Love the show Spencer.

1489
01:18:42,800 --> 01:18:45,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, gosh, I'd forgotten about that. That happened in

1490
01:18:47,000 --> 01:18:52,479
Speaker 3: ninety three, nineteen or ninety three, and she was, Yeah,

1491
01:18:52,520 --> 01:18:55,439
Speaker 3: she was the singer of this like really emerging kind

1492
01:18:55,520 --> 01:18:59,080
Speaker 3: of grunge band. And I believe she was at like

1493
01:18:59,320 --> 01:19:02,639
Speaker 3: a bar and she went to a friend's house and

1494
01:19:03,160 --> 01:19:04,880
Speaker 3: you know, at like two in the morning, this you know,

1495
01:19:05,000 --> 01:19:07,120
Speaker 3: was going to walk home, which you know, I mean

1496
01:19:07,160 --> 01:19:09,519
Speaker 3: a lot of us did back then, right, And she

1497
01:19:09,680 --> 01:19:13,800
Speaker 3: was raped and murdered a long time. Yeah, for a

1498
01:19:13,840 --> 01:19:15,920
Speaker 3: long time too. I think it was like a year

1499
01:19:15,920 --> 01:19:20,040
Speaker 3: and a half before her killer was found. It took

1500
01:19:20,080 --> 01:19:23,000
Speaker 3: a long time, and it really put like this dark

1501
01:19:23,040 --> 01:19:26,040
Speaker 3: cloud over the whole scene. And you know, up there

1502
01:19:26,080 --> 01:19:28,280
Speaker 3: in Seattle, because they didn't know who killed her, and

1503
01:19:28,320 --> 01:19:30,600
Speaker 3: a lot of people were suspect, and you know, it

1504
01:19:30,680 --> 01:19:33,920
Speaker 3: was already kind it's already kind of like a moody environment,

1505
01:19:35,720 --> 01:19:38,479
Speaker 3: so it put this like dark cloud over the whole scene.

1506
01:19:38,960 --> 01:19:43,840
Speaker 3: And they did an episode on the investigation Discovery on

1507
01:19:43,960 --> 01:19:44,679
Speaker 3: me as a poduct.

1508
01:19:44,720 --> 01:19:45,920
Speaker 6: Actually, oh I did.

1509
01:19:46,640 --> 01:19:48,680
Speaker 3: It was one of those episodes. I can't remember the

1510
01:19:48,760 --> 01:19:51,840
Speaker 3: name of the show, but it was like unsolved mysteries

1511
01:19:52,160 --> 01:19:55,920
Speaker 3: kind of show. And anyway, they found her killer. The

1512
01:19:56,520 --> 01:19:58,840
Speaker 3: killer they did. He died pretty recently, a couple of

1513
01:19:58,880 --> 01:20:02,000
Speaker 3: years ago. Yeah, he was sixty something years old when

1514
01:20:02,000 --> 01:20:04,760
Speaker 3: he died. His name was Hayesuss. I don't remember his

1515
01:20:04,840 --> 01:20:07,160
Speaker 3: last name, but his name was Hayes Suss and he

1516
01:20:07,280 --> 01:20:08,320
Speaker 3: I think he died in prison.

1517
01:20:08,479 --> 01:20:11,519
Speaker 6: Wow. Okay, I would love to get into that.

1518
01:20:11,680 --> 01:20:13,439
Speaker 8: I was just going to say, maybe would do like

1519
01:20:13,479 --> 01:20:16,160
Speaker 8: a music theme night or something, because there's so many

1520
01:20:16,240 --> 01:20:17,839
Speaker 8: interesting ones that interesting.

1521
01:20:18,120 --> 01:20:19,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, that would be interesting, and also it might be

1522
01:20:20,040 --> 01:20:22,320
Speaker 3: also interesting to kind of cover like some of the

1523
01:20:22,360 --> 01:20:24,120
Speaker 3: conspiracies surrounding some of these.

1524
01:20:24,680 --> 01:20:26,240
Speaker 6: I love that absolutely.

1525
01:20:26,479 --> 01:20:29,000
Speaker 8: Yeah, that's what happened yesterday when we were talking about

1526
01:20:29,040 --> 01:20:31,480
Speaker 8: Kurt that I was like, Oh, all these different conspiracies

1527
01:20:31,520 --> 01:20:32,559
Speaker 8: that I hadn't heard about.

1528
01:20:32,680 --> 01:20:34,960
Speaker 6: So I would love to do it. Dig into that.

1529
01:20:36,000 --> 01:20:37,559
Speaker 3: Thank you for that talk back and let me know

1530
01:20:37,560 --> 01:20:39,800
Speaker 3: if I if I got anything wrong, slide into our

1531
01:20:39,880 --> 01:20:42,280
Speaker 3: DMS and and let me. Know, I again kind of

1532
01:20:42,320 --> 01:20:44,960
Speaker 3: doing this a little bit from memory, but yeah, I'm

1533
01:20:45,040 --> 01:20:46,720
Speaker 3: very interested in that one. So thank you Spencer for that.

1534
01:20:47,479 --> 01:20:49,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, I had not heard of that, so I would

1535
01:20:49,160 --> 01:20:50,679
Speaker 4: love to learn more.

1536
01:20:51,040 --> 01:20:53,479
Speaker 3: She would She was on the cusp of like theme,

1537
01:20:53,720 --> 01:20:57,000
Speaker 3: do you know what I mean? Like right there, she

1538
01:20:57,080 --> 01:21:01,200
Speaker 3: was like on the cusp of it. Yeah, really sad Britney.

1539
01:21:00,920 --> 01:21:02,080
Speaker 6: Do you want to take one?

1540
01:21:02,120 --> 01:21:04,240
Speaker 8: I see that we've got a couple and I think

1541
01:21:05,320 --> 01:21:08,040
Speaker 8: Ava or Whitney sent you a few to choose from.

1542
01:21:08,280 --> 01:21:13,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, how about we go for Jenna. So

1543
01:21:13,479 --> 01:21:16,400
Speaker 4: what Jenna says is for Uber drivers have been federally

1544
01:21:16,560 --> 01:21:21,080
Speaker 4: oh indicted in Houston and this was under Operation Lighthouse.

1545
01:21:22,120 --> 01:21:26,519
Speaker 4: It's a multi agency effort targeting ride share drivers accused

1546
01:21:26,520 --> 01:21:34,320
Speaker 4: of kidnapping and sexually assaulting female passengers. Wow, and what

1547
01:21:34,439 --> 01:21:37,840
Speaker 4: is this? This is her comment? Check this out. I've

1548
01:21:37,840 --> 01:21:40,240
Speaker 4: always been a little afraid of entering an uber or lyft.

1549
01:21:40,240 --> 01:21:42,880
Speaker 4: When we were in Nashville we use lyft. They were

1550
01:21:42,920 --> 01:21:48,439
Speaker 4: all very nice, but it's a little scary sometimes interesting. Jenna,

1551
01:21:48,560 --> 01:21:51,559
Speaker 4: we should absolutely look I'd love to look into this

1552
01:21:51,680 --> 01:21:53,519
Speaker 4: Operation Lighthouse, because I would do.

1553
01:21:53,920 --> 01:21:57,680
Speaker 3: I take a lot of ubers and lifts alone by myself.

1554
01:21:58,439 --> 01:22:00,400
Speaker 3: And I feel like, you know, they came out with

1555
01:22:00,439 --> 01:22:03,679
Speaker 3: those pin numbers, right, so when your your uber comes

1556
01:22:03,680 --> 01:22:06,599
Speaker 3: and picks you up, because sometimes people were posing as

1557
01:22:06,680 --> 01:22:10,880
Speaker 3: drivers to pick up victims basically, and now you have

1558
01:22:10,920 --> 01:22:13,120
Speaker 3: to give them like a pin number, right, and it

1559
01:22:13,200 --> 01:22:15,240
Speaker 3: has to match what their records saying, you.

1560
01:22:15,160 --> 01:22:15,639
Speaker 6: Know all that.

1561
01:22:16,600 --> 01:22:19,680
Speaker 3: And I when that came out, I had like a

1562
01:22:19,760 --> 01:22:24,200
Speaker 3: sneaking suspicion Courtney that it was like the illusion of safety,

1563
01:22:24,840 --> 01:22:29,200
Speaker 3: do you know what I mean? Like it's what I mean, Yeah,

1564
01:22:29,200 --> 01:22:32,800
Speaker 3: it's the right uber driver, But what really goes into

1565
01:22:33,560 --> 01:22:35,320
Speaker 3: looking at who these people are?

1566
01:22:35,600 --> 01:22:35,800
Speaker 5: Right?

1567
01:22:36,920 --> 01:22:39,720
Speaker 3: What kind of background checks are run? Do they have

1568
01:22:39,760 --> 01:22:42,600
Speaker 3: a bond? You know, like what that might be an

1569
01:22:42,640 --> 01:22:46,439
Speaker 3: interesting deep dive to do one day, Like these kind

1570
01:22:46,479 --> 01:22:48,439
Speaker 3: of drivers that we're getting into cars with.

1571
01:22:49,240 --> 01:22:54,600
Speaker 4: Absolutely so living in Los Angeles, we have billboards and

1572
01:22:55,040 --> 01:22:58,240
Speaker 4: there's been billboards of I'm going to get the statistic wrong,

1573
01:22:58,360 --> 01:23:02,160
Speaker 4: but you know one assault every eight minutes or so.

1574
01:23:02,240 --> 01:23:06,160
Speaker 4: You know, it's really a huge deal. We absolutely should

1575
01:23:06,200 --> 01:23:12,439
Speaker 4: get into it. My I as a really grown adult,

1576
01:23:12,560 --> 01:23:16,639
Speaker 4: what seven years ago or something, I spent several months

1577
01:23:16,680 --> 01:23:21,719
Speaker 4: in Atlanta. We were actually Kitty was producing a Nancy

1578
01:23:21,760 --> 01:23:24,160
Speaker 4: Gray series. So I lived in Atlanta. I did not

1579
01:23:24,240 --> 01:23:26,639
Speaker 4: have a car. I took ubers or lifts every day.

1580
01:23:27,320 --> 01:23:29,679
Speaker 4: And my mom, even though I was, you know, deep

1581
01:23:29,680 --> 01:23:33,080
Speaker 4: in my thirties, however old I was, she would make

1582
01:23:33,200 --> 01:23:37,160
Speaker 4: me real or fake, be like, okay, Mom, I'm getting

1583
01:23:37,200 --> 01:23:42,519
Speaker 4: into the uber and say it's a Ford Bronco you

1584
01:23:42,560 --> 01:23:44,720
Speaker 4: know it's about and just say that so that the

1585
01:23:44,800 --> 01:23:48,519
Speaker 4: person would know that somebody was aware that I was

1586
01:23:48,600 --> 01:23:51,800
Speaker 4: in it. Whether that's a detective measure or not, I

1587
01:23:52,400 --> 01:23:53,960
Speaker 4: think it's smart, though, I actually do.

1588
01:23:54,120 --> 01:23:55,120
Speaker 6: I think that's really smart.

1589
01:23:55,120 --> 01:23:56,920
Speaker 8: And I'm just going to add two things because I

1590
01:23:57,000 --> 01:23:58,840
Speaker 8: know Courtney, you and I both listened to a lot

1591
01:23:58,880 --> 01:24:02,240
Speaker 8: of the New York Times podcasts The Daily, and I

1592
01:24:02,240 --> 01:24:03,800
Speaker 8: don't know if you listened to the one where they

1593
01:24:03,840 --> 01:24:07,120
Speaker 8: talked about there was an inside investigation with someone who

1594
01:24:07,840 --> 01:24:11,479
Speaker 8: was able to access some of the Uber data, and

1595
01:24:11,640 --> 01:24:14,120
Speaker 8: basically it showed that there were there was a really

1596
01:24:14,200 --> 01:24:16,759
Speaker 8: high number of assaults that they had tried to keep

1597
01:24:17,200 --> 01:24:20,040
Speaker 8: sort of quiet so people wouldn't know about it. So

1598
01:24:20,360 --> 01:24:22,479
Speaker 8: when we do cover this, I'd love to I might

1599
01:24:22,520 --> 01:24:23,840
Speaker 8: even try to see if you can get that reporter

1600
01:24:23,960 --> 01:24:25,840
Speaker 8: to come on board to talk about it.

1601
01:24:25,880 --> 01:24:26,960
Speaker 6: But it was.

1602
01:24:26,920 --> 01:24:29,120
Speaker 8: Fascinating and one thing for you body, I was going

1603
01:24:29,200 --> 01:24:32,360
Speaker 8: to mention, I actually thought that code was more for

1604
01:24:32,439 --> 01:24:35,479
Speaker 8: me the customer, to make sure I'm not getting in

1605
01:24:35,479 --> 01:24:37,599
Speaker 8: the wrong one. I didn't know it was a It's

1606
01:24:37,760 --> 01:24:39,240
Speaker 8: bothy ah got.

1607
01:24:39,160 --> 01:24:43,400
Speaker 3: You because people were pretending to be, you know, a

1608
01:24:43,479 --> 01:24:46,680
Speaker 3: driver and picking up women and they would get into

1609
01:24:46,720 --> 01:24:48,479
Speaker 3: a car and it wasn't really their uber driver and

1610
01:24:48,479 --> 01:24:50,360
Speaker 3: the guy would be like, great, I've got this victim.

1611
01:24:50,360 --> 01:24:51,400
Speaker 3: I'm gonna drive away, you know.

1612
01:24:51,640 --> 01:24:53,519
Speaker 4: So it was both yeah, yeah.

1613
01:24:53,320 --> 01:24:55,200
Speaker 8: It was helpful for me because I've gotten into the

1614
01:24:55,200 --> 01:24:57,559
Speaker 8: wrong car, like I've stepped into a car and like

1615
01:24:57,600 --> 01:24:59,000
Speaker 8: someone's like, I'm not an uber oop.

1616
01:24:59,120 --> 01:25:03,400
Speaker 6: Sorry, sorry about that, And thank.

1617
01:25:03,240 --> 01:25:06,320
Speaker 3: You for that, DM, very much, very much appreciated. We

1618
01:25:06,400 --> 01:25:09,280
Speaker 3: have another one. So this is from Kristen Hi. I

1619
01:25:09,320 --> 01:25:11,240
Speaker 3: always listen to the Next Day on the podcast, but

1620
01:25:11,280 --> 01:25:13,519
Speaker 3: I'm just wondering if you guys have heard or have

1621
01:25:13,640 --> 01:25:17,280
Speaker 3: covered anything on Mimi Torres from Connecticut. It is so

1622
01:25:17,439 --> 01:25:19,200
Speaker 3: sad and I would love to hear thoughts on it.

1623
01:25:19,280 --> 01:25:21,680
Speaker 3: Love the show. Well, thank you, thank you very much

1624
01:25:21,680 --> 01:25:21,840
Speaker 3: for that.

1625
01:25:21,920 --> 01:25:22,360
Speaker 7: DM.

1626
01:25:22,400 --> 01:25:25,920
Speaker 3: This is one of the saddest cases I've ever and no,

1627
01:25:25,960 --> 01:25:28,840
Speaker 3: we haven't covered it. We haven't covered it because it

1628
01:25:28,920 --> 01:25:30,120
Speaker 3: is so bad.

1629
01:25:30,600 --> 01:25:34,080
Speaker 4: Oh dear, Oh so bad. So Mimi.

1630
01:25:34,160 --> 01:25:37,040
Speaker 3: She was I think she was eleven years old in

1631
01:25:37,080 --> 01:25:40,840
Speaker 3: Connecticut and she lived with her mom and her I think,

1632
01:25:41,320 --> 01:25:45,160
Speaker 3: I think they had a younger sibling and her mom's boyfriend.

1633
01:25:45,439 --> 01:25:49,760
Speaker 3: And she was found in like a bin at an

1634
01:25:49,800 --> 01:25:53,320
Speaker 3: abandoned house and she'd only weighed like twenty five pounds.

1635
01:25:53,800 --> 01:25:57,759
Speaker 3: Oh god, she had a single blueberry in her stomach.

1636
01:25:58,280 --> 01:25:59,040
Speaker 6: Oh my god.

1637
01:25:59,280 --> 01:26:03,800
Speaker 3: And the reason it gained such attention. I'm trying to

1638
01:26:03,840 --> 01:26:07,080
Speaker 3: move out of the sad part is two months before

1639
01:26:07,160 --> 01:26:11,240
Speaker 3: she passed or died or was murdered, her mom called

1640
01:26:11,240 --> 01:26:13,160
Speaker 3: the school and said she was going to start homeschooling her.

1641
01:26:13,520 --> 01:26:18,320
Speaker 3: And it brought like the national conversation around homeschooling. And

1642
01:26:18,400 --> 01:26:21,559
Speaker 3: you know, one thing, one thing that schools do is

1643
01:26:21,640 --> 01:26:25,160
Speaker 3: basically they have mandated reporters. They you know, they have

1644
01:26:25,280 --> 01:26:27,519
Speaker 3: eyes on the kids every day. You know that kind

1645
01:26:27,520 --> 01:26:29,759
Speaker 3: of thing. Well, with homeschooling, that doesn't happen.

1646
01:26:30,360 --> 01:26:34,639
Speaker 4: You also get food because there are it's a really

1647
01:26:34,760 --> 01:26:38,200
Speaker 4: high percentage of children who it can be all of

1648
01:26:38,240 --> 01:26:41,479
Speaker 4: the food that they eat is actually at school.

1649
01:26:41,640 --> 01:26:44,519
Speaker 3: Well, Courtney, you remember during COVID they shut schools down,

1650
01:26:44,560 --> 01:26:47,040
Speaker 3: but they were still doing lunches for some of the kids,

1651
01:26:47,040 --> 01:26:50,080
Speaker 3: because you're right, this was the only food they would

1652
01:26:50,080 --> 01:26:52,679
Speaker 3: get all day was at once at school.

1653
01:26:52,920 --> 01:26:53,639
Speaker 4: Yeah, so it.

1654
01:26:53,600 --> 01:26:57,120
Speaker 3: Kind of brought this national conversation around homeschooling. And I listen,

1655
01:26:57,160 --> 01:26:59,960
Speaker 3: I am not saying homeschooling is bad or anything like that.

1656
01:27:00,040 --> 01:27:02,680
Speaker 3: It's just this is the case, right right, This is

1657
01:27:02,680 --> 01:27:07,120
Speaker 3: the conversation because had Mimi been going to school as

1658
01:27:07,160 --> 01:27:10,000
Speaker 3: she had her whole life, this may not have happened,

1659
01:27:10,600 --> 01:27:13,680
Speaker 3: right because eyes would have been on her mandator reporters,

1660
01:27:14,200 --> 01:27:17,240
Speaker 3: you know, teachers would have called authorities, you know, the

1661
01:27:17,479 --> 01:27:22,280
Speaker 3: man needed to So yeah, Memi Torres, it's a horror, horrible,

1662
01:27:22,320 --> 01:27:26,160
Speaker 3: horrible case. I stopped following it because it was just

1663
01:27:27,040 --> 01:27:28,200
Speaker 3: too much for my heart to bear.

1664
01:27:28,280 --> 01:27:28,719
Speaker 4: Honestly.

1665
01:27:28,800 --> 01:27:32,400
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, it's really sad, but that's all I really

1666
01:27:32,439 --> 01:27:34,040
Speaker 3: know about it. There might be more now I haven't

1667
01:27:34,080 --> 01:27:35,080
Speaker 3: checked on it in a long time.

1668
01:27:35,520 --> 01:27:37,360
Speaker 4: We should say, I mean, it sounds like something and

1669
01:27:37,400 --> 01:27:38,120
Speaker 4: that it doesn't.

1670
01:27:38,120 --> 01:27:41,839
Speaker 3: Just happened like last year. I remember there was bodycam

1671
01:27:41,920 --> 01:27:44,519
Speaker 3: footage and like the neighbor. The only reason they found

1672
01:27:45,240 --> 01:27:47,680
Speaker 3: there was like a neighbor who had made a complaint.

1673
01:27:47,760 --> 01:27:50,479
Speaker 3: It was like a noise complaint and it was like

1674
01:27:50,560 --> 01:27:53,320
Speaker 3: the mom and the boyfriend fighting or something. So I

1675
01:27:53,400 --> 01:27:56,479
Speaker 3: remember watching the body cam footage and I just haven't

1676
01:27:56,520 --> 01:27:57,759
Speaker 3: checked on it in a long time.

1677
01:27:58,960 --> 01:27:59,759
Speaker 6: It's her sweet.

1678
01:28:00,240 --> 01:28:02,200
Speaker 4: Do we know? And it's good if you don't. I

1679
01:28:02,200 --> 01:28:06,040
Speaker 4: can't believe how much you remember, top of Head, anyone

1680
01:28:07,040 --> 01:28:08,759
Speaker 4: went to prison for.

1681
01:28:08,600 --> 01:28:09,599
Speaker 6: This, think.

1682
01:28:09,640 --> 01:28:11,320
Speaker 3: I don't even think that there's been a trial yet.

1683
01:28:11,360 --> 01:28:14,880
Speaker 3: I honestly, it just happened like a year ago, So

1684
01:28:14,920 --> 01:28:20,040
Speaker 3: I don't. I know that the mom, the boyfriend, and

1685
01:28:20,280 --> 01:28:25,360
Speaker 3: Mimi's aunt are all facing charges, but I got out

1686
01:28:25,400 --> 01:28:27,400
Speaker 3: top of Head. I can't remember what they are or

1687
01:28:27,560 --> 01:28:30,080
Speaker 3: if the trial has happened. But it definitely is something

1688
01:28:30,120 --> 01:28:32,080
Speaker 3: that we could we could talk about it.

1689
01:28:31,520 --> 01:28:32,679
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's just soul.

1690
01:28:33,000 --> 01:28:35,680
Speaker 8: It's such a painful, hard one, but it definitely is

1691
01:28:35,720 --> 01:28:37,000
Speaker 8: something we should shed light on.

1692
01:28:37,120 --> 01:28:40,040
Speaker 6: And yeah, we can add that to the to the

1693
01:28:40,040 --> 01:28:41,960
Speaker 6: list of shows that the topics to cover.

1694
01:28:42,680 --> 01:28:43,160
Speaker 4: Absolutely.

1695
01:28:43,200 --> 01:28:45,600
Speaker 3: I just remember that single blueberry, and every time I

1696
01:28:45,640 --> 01:28:46,960
Speaker 3: see a blueberry, I think about her.

1697
01:28:48,120 --> 01:28:51,960
Speaker 4: Gosh, and now so will I If you are just

1698
01:28:52,040 --> 01:28:55,639
Speaker 4: joining us. This is true Crime tonight, and we are

1699
01:28:55,680 --> 01:28:58,679
Speaker 4: in the middle of going through some d ms we're getting.

1700
01:28:59,200 --> 01:29:04,400
Speaker 4: We're getting all of information for you guys, and I

1701
01:29:04,479 --> 01:29:07,599
Speaker 4: have one from Karen I'd like to share and body,

1702
01:29:08,280 --> 01:29:12,480
Speaker 4: I think you're about to have a yes or a

1703
01:29:13,280 --> 01:29:18,400
Speaker 4: hell yes if I'm missing correctly. Okay, Karen says, seeing

1704
01:29:18,439 --> 01:29:23,559
Speaker 4: you're having Ted Bundy's cousin, that's cool. I think you

1705
01:29:23,560 --> 01:29:28,280
Speaker 4: should have Ted Kazinski aka Unibomber, his brother who turned

1706
01:29:28,320 --> 01:29:31,680
Speaker 4: him in. So they're saying we should have David Kazinsky

1707
01:29:31,880 --> 01:29:35,400
Speaker 4: on absolutely yes, Okay.

1708
01:29:35,479 --> 01:29:37,800
Speaker 3: Do you guys know the story behind David Kazinski.

1709
01:29:38,680 --> 01:29:40,720
Speaker 6: I know a little, but I'd love to hear you

1710
01:29:40,800 --> 01:29:41,599
Speaker 6: say it again and tell.

1711
01:29:41,439 --> 01:29:45,479
Speaker 3: Me bomber Ted Kazinski, right, he was this manifesto. He

1712
01:29:45,560 --> 01:29:48,559
Speaker 3: really wanted this manifesto published, all right, and he was

1713
01:29:48,600 --> 01:29:50,879
Speaker 3: doing everything that gets manifesto published.

1714
01:29:51,800 --> 01:29:52,080
Speaker 4: Well.

1715
01:29:52,160 --> 01:29:55,320
Speaker 3: The Washington I believe it was the Washington Post was

1716
01:29:55,360 --> 01:29:57,559
Speaker 3: the only one who was set up with the FBI

1717
01:29:57,920 --> 01:30:02,840
Speaker 3: at the time to publish the manifesto because they it

1718
01:30:02,880 --> 01:30:05,599
Speaker 3: wasn't distributed as in as many places and they could

1719
01:30:05,640 --> 01:30:10,120
Speaker 3: go see like remember those blue boxes where you would

1720
01:30:10,160 --> 01:30:12,440
Speaker 3: put a quarter in and you would get a newspaper.

1721
01:30:12,840 --> 01:30:13,080
Speaker 4: Oh.

1722
01:30:13,120 --> 01:30:16,080
Speaker 3: Sure, So they were monitored. He was monitoring because they

1723
01:30:16,160 --> 01:30:18,320
Speaker 3: knew the unibomber was gonna go get one. So they

1724
01:30:18,320 --> 01:30:22,320
Speaker 3: were monitoring all the places where the Washington Post had

1725
01:30:22,360 --> 01:30:24,800
Speaker 3: these boxes, okay, and they didn't have as many as

1726
01:30:24,920 --> 01:30:25,519
Speaker 3: like the.

1727
01:30:25,400 --> 01:30:26,160
Speaker 4: New York Times.

1728
01:30:26,520 --> 01:30:29,360
Speaker 3: So the Washington Post, I believe I got this memory,

1729
01:30:31,120 --> 01:30:34,880
Speaker 3: was set up to do the manifesto. So comes out.

1730
01:30:34,920 --> 01:30:38,440
Speaker 3: The manifesto comes out in the Washington Post. David Kazinski

1731
01:30:38,520 --> 01:30:41,479
Speaker 3: buys one and he's reading it and his wife is like,

1732
01:30:42,080 --> 01:30:44,960
Speaker 3: this sounds like your brother Ted.

1733
01:30:45,479 --> 01:30:49,160
Speaker 6: Oh, and he was like, no, stop.

1734
01:30:48,880 --> 01:30:51,439
Speaker 3: It, it's not Ted, no way. My brother is amazing

1735
01:30:51,560 --> 01:30:54,080
Speaker 3: and yeah he's a little weird, but you know, he's

1736
01:30:54,120 --> 01:30:58,679
Speaker 3: loving and there's no way. Well, his wife is like insisting, like, dude, yeah,

1737
01:30:59,040 --> 01:31:01,840
Speaker 3: it's it's got to be dead. This is crazy, it's dead.

1738
01:31:01,840 --> 01:31:02,479
Speaker 6: It's dead.

1739
01:31:03,080 --> 01:31:03,240
Speaker 5: Oh.

1740
01:31:03,600 --> 01:31:06,960
Speaker 3: David calls it a tip. I think it might be dead.

1741
01:31:07,160 --> 01:31:09,080
Speaker 3: He gets a lawyer to do it. He goes to

1742
01:31:09,120 --> 01:31:11,040
Speaker 3: a lawyer because he's like out of his mind, right,

1743
01:31:11,080 --> 01:31:14,880
Speaker 3: his poor brother, He's like, because they did that forensic

1744
01:31:15,040 --> 01:31:19,920
Speaker 3: linguistics and yeah, it was Ted Kazinski David. David's wife

1745
01:31:19,960 --> 01:31:22,479
Speaker 3: was right anyway, I would love to have him.

1746
01:31:22,760 --> 01:31:23,800
Speaker 6: I would love to get him.

1747
01:31:23,840 --> 01:31:25,639
Speaker 8: And you know the only reason I know this one

1748
01:31:25,720 --> 01:31:29,519
Speaker 8: is because we had James Fitzgerald on the FBI agent

1749
01:31:29,520 --> 01:31:33,479
Speaker 8: who was involved, and because I started watching the Netflix series.

1750
01:31:33,479 --> 01:31:36,439
Speaker 8: So everything you're saying visualizing because of it, right, that

1751
01:31:36,479 --> 01:31:37,120
Speaker 8: would be great?

1752
01:31:37,640 --> 01:31:39,880
Speaker 4: Well, and I remember we taught this was one of

1753
01:31:39,880 --> 01:31:44,280
Speaker 4: our absolute first shows because since never has left my

1754
01:31:44,400 --> 01:31:47,200
Speaker 4: memory when you said part of the linguistics and it

1755
01:31:47,280 --> 01:31:49,840
Speaker 4: was you can't take your bake and have it too.

1756
01:31:50,120 --> 01:31:51,880
Speaker 6: Yep, you can't.

1757
01:31:51,880 --> 01:31:53,839
Speaker 3: Your cake can have it too. But we always say

1758
01:31:54,000 --> 01:31:54,479
Speaker 3: you can't.

1759
01:31:54,560 --> 01:31:55,280
Speaker 5: What do we always say?

1760
01:31:55,280 --> 01:31:57,559
Speaker 6: I don't remembered it too.

1761
01:31:57,720 --> 01:31:57,920
Speaker 9: Yeah.

1762
01:31:58,000 --> 01:32:00,720
Speaker 4: That really might have been like show one show too.

1763
01:32:00,760 --> 01:32:02,360
Speaker 4: It was back in manifest Monday.

1764
01:32:03,400 --> 01:32:05,920
Speaker 6: Oh that's right, Yeah, bring that back.

1765
01:32:07,520 --> 01:32:08,519
Speaker 3: We kind of ran out of them.

1766
01:32:09,439 --> 01:32:11,559
Speaker 6: That was part of the problem, you know.

1767
01:32:11,840 --> 01:32:16,160
Speaker 4: Actually, there was one that my friend mentioned that I

1768
01:32:16,240 --> 01:32:18,720
Speaker 4: wanted to that I did want to talk about. It's

1769
01:32:18,720 --> 01:32:22,439
Speaker 4: a manifesto and geez, Louise, now I'm forgetting his name?

1770
01:32:22,880 --> 01:32:25,960
Speaker 4: Is it Chris Darnell. He was I believe, a police

1771
01:32:26,000 --> 01:32:31,840
Speaker 4: officer who had a manifesto in California. That's right, Big Beer.

1772
01:32:32,760 --> 01:32:34,760
Speaker 3: I think it was Big Beer in California.

1773
01:32:34,880 --> 01:32:39,200
Speaker 4: Christopher Dorner, Yes, I remember this. We should that, we should,

1774
01:32:39,240 --> 01:32:40,320
Speaker 4: we should definitely do that.

1775
01:32:40,640 --> 01:32:41,240
Speaker 5: Let's do it.

1776
01:32:41,400 --> 01:32:45,439
Speaker 4: Okay, well we've done it all. And listen, yeah, and

1777
01:32:45,479 --> 01:32:48,840
Speaker 4: we're so grateful for joining us. We are back tomorrow.

1778
01:32:49,120 --> 01:32:52,640
Speaker 4: We've got many cases coming up, and listen, thanks, and

1779
01:32:52,720 --> 01:32:54,160
Speaker 4: be good and be good at it.