1 00:00:02,320 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:08,760 Speaker 2: Bill Gates, thank you so much for joining us big 3 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:11,360 Speaker 2: news today. The Gates Foundation will spend over two hundred 4 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 2: billion dollars over the next twenty years. It'll close in 5 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 2: twenty forty five, and you'll give away virtually all of 6 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 2: your wealth to save and improve lives around the world. 7 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 2: Is that a consequence of Trump policies and Doge? 8 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 3: No, this is a decision I've been thinking about for 9 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 3: several years. You know, we're celebrating our twenty fifth annivers three. 10 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 3: The results we've had from our giving, particularly and global 11 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:40,519 Speaker 3: health have been far beyond what I expected, cutting childhood 12 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:43,920 Speaker 3: deaths from over ten million a year down under five million. 13 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 3: So it's doubling down on what's worked well. And that's 14 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:51,319 Speaker 3: despite the fact that in the near term things may 15 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 3: go backwards because of these funding cuts. 16 00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 2: The decision means you'll probably see the impact of your 17 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 2: gifts in your lifetime. Was that a motivation for. 18 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 3: You, Well, I think the Gage Foundation's got an incredible 19 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:12,399 Speaker 3: team of people and being able to give them as 20 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:17,560 Speaker 3: much resources as possible during this key period and actually. 21 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:18,319 Speaker 1: Finish off malaria. 22 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 3: So so nobody has to think about that finish off polio. 23 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:27,759 Speaker 3: So it's a done thing. You know, it's thrilling that 24 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 3: we can make more progress in the next twenty years 25 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 3: than even what we've done so far. And so it's 26 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:38,679 Speaker 3: a vote of confidence. And you know, I know that 27 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 3: there'll be more rich people in the future who can 28 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 3: take whatever we haven't finished and take that on. 29 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 2: How are you addressing the pullback in USAIDS and other 30 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 2: government development aid. 31 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 3: Well, the Foundation will be a strong voice in how 32 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 3: impactful that generosity has been. The United States, starting with 33 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:11,799 Speaker 3: President Bush in the year two thousand, supported HIV medicine 34 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:15,919 Speaker 3: so that people wouldn't die, and that's been a bipartisan thing. 35 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:20,079 Speaker 1: It's made a huge difference. The Congress is it's doing. 36 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 3: The next budget will decide whether the US supports polio 37 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 3: eradication or vaccines for the children in the poorest countries. 38 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:33,679 Speaker 3: It's less than one percent to the US budget, and 39 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 3: so I'm hoping that we can keep that money in 40 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 3: place or only have modest reductions, not the gigantic cut 41 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 3: that some people are proposing. 42 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 2: You had some pretty strong words for Elon Musk, saying 43 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 2: he's involved in the depths of the world's poorest children. 44 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:58,920 Speaker 2: Do you think this withdrawal of government support is permanent, Well. 45 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 3: There's no doubt at the USAID payment cutoffs that Elon 46 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:11,680 Speaker 3: drove have resulted in dramatic increase in childhood death and 47 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 3: children that would have been protected from getting HIV from 48 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 3: their mothers during birth that money has been cut off. 49 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:24,400 Speaker 3: In fact, they attacked a grant that was actually in 50 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:31,800 Speaker 3: gozam Mozambique for being up in Gaza in the Middle East, 51 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 3: but in fact it was hide prevention money that was 52 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 3: cut off. And so we need to look at how 53 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 3: this money represents the moral leadership of the US and 54 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 3: the relationships we get. And it's not only to save lives, 55 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 3: it's to stabilize these countries. It's to have health systems 56 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 3: that will catch potential pandemics early and avoid them coming 57 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 3: to the United States. So there's a lot of great 58 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 3: reasons this less than one percent of the budget shouldn't 59 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 3: be cut off. 60 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 2: Have you had any conversation with any Trump officials about this. 61 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 3: I've had two meetings with President Trump, and the main 62 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 3: focus of those conversations where the great work the US 63 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:23,159 Speaker 3: is done on HID and how we can do even 64 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:28,599 Speaker 3: better with that drive innovations, including a HIV cure. I 65 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 3: talked about the need for the US to stay in Polio, 66 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 3: that they're a critical partner, and so you know, I 67 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 3: think when push comes to shove, this money should be maintained, 68 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:46,159 Speaker 3: although the final word on that will come from the Congress. 69 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:49,840 Speaker 2: What has that dialogue looked like from the other side? 70 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:53,160 Speaker 2: And have you met with Elon musk I. 71 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:57,919 Speaker 3: Haven't met with Elon about this. I mean, you know, 72 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:00,720 Speaker 3: in terms of usc I D I'm out in Nigeria 73 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:04,360 Speaker 3: and Democratic Republic of Congo and meeting the amazing people 74 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 3: who did that work for USAID and understanding the impact 75 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:12,039 Speaker 3: that it has. So you know, that's my hands on 76 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:18,239 Speaker 3: focuses is Global Hull. Elon has done great private sector work, 77 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:23,919 Speaker 3: but I've never talked to him about what the cuts 78 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 3: that he drove on in USAID. 79 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 2: Do you want to have you talked him about anything 80 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:31,479 Speaker 2: else recently? 81 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:37,040 Speaker 3: Well, he's not actively engaged now, so the decisions will 82 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 3: be people like Secretary Rubio, who was in Africa around 83 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 3: twenty twelve and saw the amazing work that Pep Park 84 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 3: did there, and so I hope he'll be a voice 85 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:54,840 Speaker 3: for maintaining this money. You know, in the US, you 86 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:58,839 Speaker 3: have people like Rotary International who've been in the polio 87 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:02,599 Speaker 3: eradication fight the very beginning, and you know, I think 88 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:05,840 Speaker 3: they'll support the US stayin because the US is an 89 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:11,039 Speaker 3: absolutely necessary participant in order for US to finish that eradication. 90 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 3: So a lot of voices will come in to this budget, 91 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:22,680 Speaker 3: including the global health miracle that the US has been 92 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 3: part of. 93 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 2: Given where we are, how are you now prioritizing programs 94 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:29,599 Speaker 2: or countries or diseases? 95 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:35,479 Speaker 3: Well, the Gates Foundation spends about an equal amount on 96 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 3: discovery new tools like a TV vaccine or way to 97 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:47,160 Speaker 3: help newborns be able to breed so they survive, or 98 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 3: avoiding mothers bleeding to death by using very cheap drugs 99 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 3: only a couple of dollars. 100 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:56,720 Speaker 1: So it's kind of mind. 101 00:06:56,480 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 3: Blowing the innovation pipeline that we have, including what's coming 102 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 3: where we use AI not just for the discovery, but 103 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 3: also to give medical advice or agricultural advice or help 104 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 3: and education. So we're doubling down by spending all the 105 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 3: money in the next twenty years because of the impact 106 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 3: that's possible. We're not able to match the money that 107 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 3: the US could cut. 108 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 1: Here. 109 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 3: You know, they're just they have more resources than a 110 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 3: single individual. 111 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 2: But if you look, there's also climate change. So is 112 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 2: there a single topic that your foundation is most concerned 113 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 2: about right now? 114 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 3: Well, our biggest area funding is poli eradication, followed by HIV, 115 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 3: malaria nutrition. We basically follow the numbers where there's the 116 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 3: most burden, that's where we go. Sadly, these diseases aren't 117 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 3: market driven. That is that people who have them are 118 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 3: so poor that you know, with malaria, when we gave 119 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 3: our first thirty million, we became the biggest funder of 120 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 3: reducing malaria deaths, and you know, so it's really driven 121 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 3: by this stuff that philanthropy and government aid budgets are 122 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 3: absolutely critical to lifting these countries up, helping them become 123 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:38,679 Speaker 3: self sufficient and having strong health systems there to drive 124 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:40,680 Speaker 3: stability and growth. 125 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:46,079 Speaker 2: The Giving Pledge is also nearing a milestone anniversary. But 126 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 2: pledgers are not legally obligated actually to give anything. It's 127 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 2: more of a good faith pact. So how do you 128 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 2: measure its impact? 129 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 3: Well, I would never want to take credit for anybody 130 00:08:58,000 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 3: else's philanthropy. 131 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 1: The fact that we've gotten. 132 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 3: Over two hundred and forty people to join in to 133 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:07,199 Speaker 3: the commitment to give. 134 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 1: The majority of their wealth the way. I do think 135 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:13,559 Speaker 1: it's setting an expectation for everyone. 136 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:19,559 Speaker 3: Who's very rich to look at being very philanthropic. You know, 137 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 3: in that pledge, we have amazing givers like Michael Bloomberg, 138 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 3: Chris Vahn, and many others, and we learn from each other, 139 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:29,559 Speaker 3: we share. 140 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 1: Best practices, We've talked about things that have. 141 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:35,840 Speaker 3: Not worked, and so we want to improve the quality 142 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:37,239 Speaker 3: and quantity of philanthropy. 143 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 1: And I see that happening all over. 144 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 2: The world, mister Gate. I also wanted to ask you 145 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:46,079 Speaker 2: about clean energy and the green transition. China was probably 146 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:49,559 Speaker 2: already winning the race to develop low carbon economy and 147 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 2: energy sources of the future. With the US's new direction 148 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 2: under Trump, has America actually squandered whatever slim chance it 149 00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 2: had of catching up. We're being competitive in that space. 150 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:00,960 Speaker 1: Well. 151 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 3: Climate change involves a lot of innovation. We have to 152 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 3: make products that are clean that eventually cost less than 153 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:14,079 Speaker 3: the dirty weight's done today. So that includes, of course 154 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 3: making electricity. That is one area where I think this 155 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 3: administration will be a stronger supporter of nuclear fission and 156 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:25,440 Speaker 3: fusion than what. 157 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 1: We've had before. I do worry that. 158 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:33,840 Speaker 3: Some of the key tax credits for new technologies like 159 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 3: carbon capture and hydrogen and storage. 160 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:41,440 Speaker 1: That those could be eliminated. 161 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:47,840 Speaker 3: But when my group that drives Climb Innovation Breakthrough Energy 162 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:52,200 Speaker 3: went out to find the best companies, almost ninety percent 163 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 3: of those are here in the United States and they've 164 00:10:55,840 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 3: gotten government support. Some of that's maybe canceled, so it 165 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:02,040 Speaker 3: could be tough for them. 166 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:02,040 Speaker 1: But. 167 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 3: US innovation will play an incredible role in helping US 168 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 3: avoid climate change. 169 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:16,079 Speaker 2: Trump's administration is also discussing we're sending tax exempt status 170 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 2: for nonprofits or foundations, particularly those focused on climate or 171 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 2: social justice. What would be the consequence is actually of. 172 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 1: That, Well, it's hard to speculate what might happen. 173 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 3: The tax code is created by Congress and you're actually 174 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:38,080 Speaker 3: allowed to get money to save children's lives. It's kind 175 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 3: of an amazing thing, you know, as opposed to buy 176 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 3: a big boat. You can buy vaccines, you can buy bednets, 177 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 3: and you know, that's a miracle of the economic freedom 178 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 3: that the US stands for. 179 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 2: I was going to ask you, how do you balance 180 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:56,079 Speaker 2: continuing to do this work with avoids, you know, whilst 181 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:58,720 Speaker 2: at the same time avoiding being targeted or pursued by 182 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 2: the Trump administration for things that are now seen as 183 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 2: politically unacceptable. 184 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 3: Well, I'm hopeful that help even when you're helping women, 185 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 3: and you're helping people in Africa, and you're helping people 186 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 3: who've got made IV I hope that's. 187 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 1: Not a political thing. 188 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 3: I hope that's you know, sort of the golden rule 189 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 3: that is part of all religion, that we should treat 190 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 3: others like we'd like to be treated ourselves. And you know, 191 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:35,199 Speaker 3: I'm hopeful that people will go out and see this work. 192 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:38,319 Speaker 3: You know, once you do, you can't help but stay 193 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 3: involved in it. So you know, this is about the 194 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 3: US value system, and we've been a leader both are 195 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 3: philanthropists and our government. 196 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 1: I hate to see. 197 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:57,320 Speaker 2: That go away, mister Gates. Just one final question, because 198 00:12:57,720 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 2: you know there's a lot going on in the economy 199 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 2: on tariffs, trade, and are you know, on the one hand, 200 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:06,320 Speaker 2: do you think investors are diluting themselves and saying, actually, 201 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 2: as long as we know what terrors we're getting, will 202 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:11,080 Speaker 2: be okay. And also, twenty years ago you joined Warren 203 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:14,439 Speaker 2: Buffett and predicting the dollar's decline. Warren Buffett this year 204 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:16,560 Speaker 2: wondered about the dollar. What do you think about the 205 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 2: dollar today. 206 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 3: Well, I'm not a macroeconomics expert. I do think we're 207 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 3: going to experience a lot of turmoil because the uncertainty 208 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:34,440 Speaker 3: that we have now, including what's going on with tariffs, 209 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 3: you know. 210 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:43,200 Speaker 1: I think because of things like AI advances, that overall 211 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 1: will have we will have 212 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:50,839 Speaker 3: Economic growth, and that we should make sure that even 213 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 3: the ports in the world are benefiting from that.