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Speaker 1: Just a note before we get started. The stories were

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Speaker 1: sharing this season touch on different kinds of trauma. Please

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Speaker 1: take care of yourself while you listen.

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Speaker 2: I was in the courtroom for a period of about

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Speaker 2: five minutes, all alone, and so I sat there quietly

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Speaker 2: before another soul entered the courtroom, and I just bowed

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Speaker 2: my head and offered a prayer for not only the case,

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Speaker 2: but for wisdom and guidance for an entire legal team

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Speaker 2: and those that were in the audience.

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Speaker 3: This is Fawn Sharp.

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Speaker 1: In January of twenty twenty, she was sitting in the

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Speaker 1: Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals, one step below the Supreme Court,

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Speaker 1: waiting for oral arguments to start in the big federal

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Speaker 1: lawsuit we've been following this season.

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Speaker 3: Brakeen B. Holland.

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Speaker 1: Sharp is the Vice President of Quinault Indian Nation and

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Speaker 1: the President of the National Congress of American Indians. But

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Speaker 1: before the arguments got started, Sharp got in trouble.

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Speaker 2: So I wear a traditional Qunault cedar hat cedar, and

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Speaker 2: the Qunault language is Chittam and it represents strength that

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Speaker 2: represents a sacred bond we have to our lands. Shortly

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Speaker 2: before the justices came out, I was asked to remove

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Speaker 2: my cedar hat, and I told the staffer that I

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Speaker 2: can't do that. I simply just said I can't. And

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Speaker 2: then she proceeded to ask me if it was medically

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Speaker 2: necessary to have my hat, and I told her again,

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Speaker 2: looked at her squarely in the eyes, and I said,

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Speaker 2: I cannot remove this hat, and it is medicine, it

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Speaker 2: is cedar, it is a part of who I am.

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Speaker 2: And she at that point just said fine and walked away.

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Speaker 2: But that was sort of a first impression. Before the

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Speaker 2: justices even walked out into the courtroom, I was being

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Speaker 2: challenged and asked to strip myself of my Quinault identity.

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Speaker 1: Sharps Tribe, Quinault Indian Nation is actually part of the case.

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Speaker 3: You'll remember.

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Speaker 1: The lawsuits started as the Brakeens and Texas suing the

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Speaker 1: federal government. Soon after other plaintiffs and states joined, and

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Speaker 1: then tribes intervened Navajo Nation because this case involves their children,

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Speaker 1: and also Cherokee Nation, Oneida Nation, the Morongo Band of

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Speaker 1: Mission Indians, and Sharps Tribe.

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Speaker 2: The Indian Child Welfare Act is incredibly important for the

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Speaker 2: health and well being of Qunault families because it serves

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Speaker 2: as a foundational peace to our society to ensure that

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Speaker 2: we'll continue for generations.

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Speaker 1: So five tribes and the US federal government are defending IQUA,

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Speaker 1: and three foster families, one birth mom, and three states

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Speaker 1: are suing to strike it down. Back in district court,

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Speaker 1: that Texas judge declared EQUA unconstitutional, but the tribes and

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Speaker 1: US federal government appealed to the Fifth Circuit, just one

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Speaker 1: step below the Supreme Court.

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Speaker 3: When Fawn Sharp was.

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Speaker 1: Sitting in that courtroom in January of twenty twenty, it

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Speaker 1: wasn't a regular hearing. It was this special thing called

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Speaker 1: an on banc. That's when all the judges on the

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Speaker 1: circuit hear the case. Normally it's just a few. These

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Speaker 1: types of hearings are very rare, so it was a

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Speaker 1: big deal that it even happened.

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Speaker 3: The courtroom was packed intense.

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Speaker 1: The people you've heard about so far this season, almost

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Speaker 1: all of them were there. I was there too. The

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Speaker 1: room was split by an aisle down the center. On

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Speaker 1: the left side set people who support IQUA, tribes and delegations.

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Speaker 3: National Native leaders flew in and local tribes came to

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Speaker 3: show their support.

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Speaker 1: On the right side, set the people who want to

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Speaker 1: strike IQUA down. It was a much smaller group. They

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Speaker 1: sat towards the back behind a few rows of law clerks.

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Speaker 1: Before the arguments started, they were chatting with each other.

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Speaker 1: I saw Jennifer Brakeen point at me, but we didn't speak.

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Speaker 1: Sitting next to the Brakeens was Mark Fiddler, that adoption

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Speaker 1: attorney who connected them to Gibson Done. I tried to

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Speaker 1: get a comment from him as he left the courtroom.

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Speaker 3: Mar Can I get a quick comment, I really don't

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Speaker 3: want us talk. I'm sorry, Okay, do you mind telling

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Speaker 3: me why.

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Speaker 4: Matt's handling all of our communications for the team?

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Speaker 1: Matt is Matthew McGill from Gibson Doun, the plaintiff's other lawyer.

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Speaker 1: When it was McGill's turn to speak, he told the

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Speaker 1: same story he's been telling about how the Indian Child

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Speaker 1: Welfare Act is tearing families apart.

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Speaker 5: Thank you, Chief Judge Owen, and may have pleased the court.

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Speaker 5: Matthew McGill for the individual plaintiffs, My clients opened their

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Speaker 5: hearts and their homes to a child in need, and

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Speaker 5: in great that child as a part of their family.

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Speaker 5: They are here because the Indian Child welfare acts, placement

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Speaker 5: preferences turn their lives and their families upside down solely

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Speaker 5: because the child they took in is an Indian child,

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Speaker 5: and they are not and cannot be because of their

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Speaker 5: race Indian families.

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Speaker 1: During the hearing, people on both sides of the aisle

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Speaker 1: were listening for one thing, whether or not this case

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Speaker 1: would go to the Supreme Court. Tribal leaders don't want

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Speaker 1: this to happen because that's where it could do the

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Speaker 1: most damage. If the Supreme Court declares EQUA unconstitutional, it

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Speaker 1: could impact generations of Native children, the legal status of tribes,

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Speaker 1: and so much more. You're listening to This Land, a

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Speaker 1: podcast about the present day struggle for Native rights from

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Speaker 1: Cricket Media. I'm your host, Rebecca Nagel Goheen daw Adon

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Speaker 1: je Leka yetrigue La, citizen of Cherokee Nation. This season,

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Speaker 1: we're following how a string of custody battles over Native

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Speaker 1: children became a federal lawsuit that threatens everything from tribal

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Speaker 1: sovereignty to civil rights. When McGill got up to tell

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Speaker 1: that story about how IQUA is tearing families apart, he

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Speaker 1: didn't focus on the little boy.

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Speaker 3: The Brakens adopted Antonio.

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Speaker 1: He talked about another Native child, a child I haven't

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Speaker 1: told you about yet, Antonio's little sister.

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Speaker 5: Unbelievably, the Brackens are living this nightmare now for a

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Speaker 5: second time.

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Speaker 1: Her custody case is still pending. And while it's heartbreaking

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Speaker 1: that this toddler is stuck in limbo, that limbo actually

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Speaker 1: helped the Brakins in federal court that story. After the break.

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Speaker 1: In the summer of twenty eighteen, Antonio's birth mother had

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Speaker 1: another baby. Both the mom and baby tested positive for

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Speaker 1: drugs at two days old. The child was placed in

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Speaker 1: foster care, but not with the Brakins. We'll call this

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Speaker 1: baby Yoslin. When Y'allslin was about six months old, her

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Speaker 1: great aunt Alvida found out that she had been born

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Speaker 1: and she wanted to raise the baby. Navajo Nation and

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Speaker 1: Texas Social workers agreed she was the best placement. But

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Speaker 1: before Yaoslin could go live with family, there was a

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Speaker 1: court hearing where Chad and Jennifer Bracken intervened because Jennifer

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Speaker 1: Brecken had also found out about Yoslin's birth. Here's what

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Speaker 1: she wrote in her blog read by an actor.

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Speaker 6: My heart stopped as we processed this news, I cried

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Speaker 6: a lot. I knew what the right thing to do was,

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Speaker 6: I knew what God was asking our family to do,

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Speaker 6: but I didn't want to start over again. Babies are

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Speaker 6: so much work, and we'd been in the weeds with

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Speaker 6: little kids for nine years at this point. We were

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Speaker 6: getting excited about adventures with older kids when we were

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Speaker 6: hit with this news. We started pursuing her within a

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Speaker 6: few months of her birth. As is this case with us,

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Speaker 6: nothing is easy.

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Speaker 1: So after crying at the news of Yaslin's birth, Jennifer

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Speaker 1: decided she had to fight for custody of a child

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Speaker 1: that she had not fostered and.

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Speaker 3: Over that child's blood relative.

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Speaker 1: At first, Chad and Jennifer Brekeen contacted the Texas Department

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Speaker 1: of Family and Protective Services, but social workers wouldn't give

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Speaker 1: them information about the baby, so their lawyer, Matthew McGill,

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Speaker 1: sent a letter to the Deputy Commissioner of Texas DFPS,

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Speaker 1: but the department wouldn't budge. They wouldn't play Yaslin with

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Speaker 1: the Brakens, so Jennifer tracked down Yoslin's mother in jail

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Speaker 1: and got her to sign an affidavid that she wanted

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Speaker 1: the Brakkeens to adopt Yoslin. Yoslin's caseworker would later testify

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Speaker 1: the Brakkeens got that Affidavid by promising Yaslin's mom an

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Speaker 1: open adoption, meaning she could always have contact with the baby.

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Speaker 1: The caseworker said that was concerning. When we asked the

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Speaker 1: Brakkeens about this, they declined to comment. Chad and Jennifer

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Speaker 1: used that Affidavid to help get standing in Yoslin's case,

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Speaker 1: in other words, to have a say in what happened.

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Speaker 1: They showed up in family court with the legal arsenal

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Speaker 1: they had Gibson Dunn, of course, and the Attorney General

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Speaker 1: of Texas. During the trial, the Brakkeens said they should

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Speaker 1: be chosen because they had adopted Yoslin's brother and they

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Speaker 1: wanted the siblings to grow up together. In the ten

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Speaker 1: months Yoslin spent in Texas foster care, she had been

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Speaker 1: to the Brakkeens home a times to visit her brother.

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Speaker 1: Here are excerpts from Chad's testimony read by an actor.

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Speaker 1: Remember the Brakkeenes changed Antonio's name so.

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Speaker 7: Our child Luke Yaucelyn's brother will ask about is quote

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Speaker 7: unquote baby sister. That's how he refers to her my

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Speaker 7: baby sister. Every day for like a week, week and

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Speaker 7: a half after she visits, we explained that this baby

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Speaker 7: that looks like him that's in this home is his sister.

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Speaker 1: Chad talked about wanting Antonio to grow up with a relative,

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Speaker 1: with someone who looked like him.

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Speaker 3: A lot of people want that for their children.

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Speaker 1: Which is why Iqua was created. Alvida was one of

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Speaker 1: the last people to take the stand. Alvida doesn't have

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Speaker 1: money like the Brakeens do, and she was asked about that,

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Speaker 1: about the size of her house, about the fact that

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Speaker 1: her adult children help support her financially. On the stand,

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Speaker 1: most of her answers to these questions were one word,

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Speaker 1: yes or no. Like Jennifer Alvida found out about Yoslin's

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Speaker 1: birth by word of mouth, her reaction couldn't have been

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Speaker 1: more different. In court, she said, quote, I love kids,

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Speaker 1: and when I saw her picture, I started loving her.

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Speaker 1: The family court judge ruled that Yoslin would live with

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Speaker 1: the Brakens. He added that every summer she would visit

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Speaker 1: Alvida on Navajo Nation. That decision was appealed by everyone

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Speaker 1: Navajo Nation, Texas DFPS and the Brackens who objected to

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Speaker 1: those summer visits. Yoslin's custody case, the question of who

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Speaker 1: will raise her is still under appeal at the Texas

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Speaker 1: State Supreme Court. She's three years old, and while that

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Speaker 1: uncertainty isn't good for Yoslin, it actually helped the Brakins

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Speaker 1: in their big federal lawsuit. Here's their lawyer, Matthew gil

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Speaker 1: in the Fifth Circuit. He calls Yoslin by her initials YRJ.

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Speaker 5: Once again, their family is at risk of being torn apart,

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Speaker 5: as the Navajo Nation has played the Equa trump card

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Speaker 5: in an effort to thwart the wishes of Yrj's mother

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Speaker 5: that YRJ be placed with the Brackens, something that the

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Speaker 5: Navajo Nation can do only because Yrj's mother is Navajo

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Speaker 5: and YRJ has the requisite blood quantum.

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Speaker 1: Remember, the brakeens adoption of Antonio is final, which makes

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Speaker 1: it harder for them to prove that Equa harmed them

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Speaker 1: and that the law going away would fix that harm,

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Speaker 1: two things they have to prove in order to have

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Speaker 1: a case.

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Speaker 3: But now they're fighting.

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Speaker 1: For custody of Yoslin and what will happen there is uncertain,

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Speaker 1: So the Brakeens, jumping through all those hoops inserting themselves

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Speaker 1: in her case strengthened their federal lawsuit. When the Fifth

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Speaker 1: Circuit judges at that question, do the Brakens have a case,

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Speaker 1: they said yes, because of Yaslin two wasn't even born

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Speaker 1: when the Brakens filed this federal lawsuit, but our custody

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Speaker 1: case helped keep it going. To argue that IQUA is

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Speaker 1: based on race, McGill focused a lot on a concept

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Speaker 1: that is really loaded blood quantum.

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Speaker 5: There's nothing the Brakeens can do to join the Navajo

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Speaker 5: nation because they lacked the requisite blood quantum. And that

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Speaker 5: is what our central submission here is that when a

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Speaker 5: classification operates in state affairs to the direct disadvantage of

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Speaker 5: non Indians, as EQUA does in that context, it's racial.

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Speaker 1: Blood quantum was created by Congress a century ago with

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Speaker 1: the stated goal of quote getting rid of the Indian problem,

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Speaker 1: the idea being that once Native children or less than

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Speaker 1: half or a quarter Native, they would no longer be native.

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Speaker 1: A century later, it's still around the US federal government

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Speaker 1: assigns every enrolled Native person a fraction that measures how

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Speaker 1: native we all are. It's like the paperwork that comes

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Speaker 1: with bread dogs. At first, blood quantum was forced on tribes. Today,

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Speaker 1: some use it, some don't. It's up to that tribe,

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Speaker 1: just like what determined citizenship in France or Mexico is

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Speaker 1: up to those countries. Most non Native people don't know

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Speaker 1: any of this. Probably couldn't even tell you what blood

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Speaker 1: quantum is, but somehow they're still obsessed with it. I

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Speaker 1: can't tell you how many times a white person has

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Speaker 1: asked me what part Cherokee I am? And that weird

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Speaker 1: combination of ignorance and obsession was on full display at

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Speaker 1: the Fifth Circuit, and it came mostly from the judges.

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Speaker 3: This.

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Speaker 1: This is Paul Spruin, Assistant Attorney General of Navajo Nation,

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Speaker 1: Your honors.

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Speaker 8: The Novo Nation, a treaty tribe, is here to defend

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Speaker 8: Indian Child Welfare Act as a statute that fulfills the

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Speaker 8: federal government's treaty obligations to sovereign tribal nations.

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Speaker 1: He's trying to explain why IQUA is based on political,

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Speaker 1: not racial status. The Office of the Attorney General of

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Speaker 1: Navajo Nation declined to speak with us directly.

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Speaker 8: Equa's definitions are plainly purely political. They are directly connected

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Speaker 8: to membership in a sovereign tribal nation with a government

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Speaker 8: to government relationship with the United States.

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Speaker 1: But the justices didn't want to talk about treaties or

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Speaker 1: the rights of sovereign indigenous nations to determine their own citizenship.

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Speaker 3: They wanted to.

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Speaker 1: Talk about blood quantum. Again, Yaslin was referred to by

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Speaker 1: her initials.

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Speaker 4: Why are J and there's one child in this case,

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Speaker 4: I believe why RJ that was made eligible by for

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Speaker 4: the statute for eligible as an Indian child through eligibility

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Speaker 4: for the Navajo nation. Is that eligibility in this case

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Speaker 4: determined purely by the child's blood.

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Speaker 8: No, as we have suggested in our briefing, blood itself

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Speaker 8: is insufficient. It is one element to be eligible to

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Speaker 8: be part of the Navo nation and many other tribes.

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Speaker 4: The eligibility of YRJ for the Navajo tribe is it eligibility?

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Speaker 4: Is it determined by whether YRJ has a quarter quantum

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Speaker 4: of Navajo blood?

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Speaker 8: So, to answer the question, in all cases, blood in

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Speaker 8: and of itself is not the exclusive element for yer

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Speaker 8: Jay or others.

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Speaker 1: What's ironic about how blood quantum is used in these

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Speaker 1: cases is that it cuts both ways. It's used when

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Speaker 1: children have higher blood quantum. To say, iqua is clearly

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Speaker 1: race based, but it's also used when children have lower

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Speaker 1: blood quantum.

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Speaker 9: And am I not correct that one of the children

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Speaker 9: here had three two hundred and fifty six India blood.

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Speaker 3: This is the chief judge of the Fifth Circuit.

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Speaker 1: She's not sure what child or even what case she's

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Speaker 1: talking about, but she remembers that specific fraction. You might

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Speaker 1: remember it too, because it's from the baby Girl case,

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Speaker 1: which we talked about a couple episodes ago.

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Speaker 3: That case ended in twenty thirteen.

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Speaker 1: I asked sharp what she thought about the judges fixation

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Speaker 1: on blood quantum.

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Speaker 2: To even go to that place, to even think that

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Speaker 2: they had a position of moral or legal authority to

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Speaker 2: second guess and question a tribe's ability to determine its

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Speaker 2: own membership and its own citizenry was quite offensive and

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Speaker 2: reflective of a misunderstanding of basic sovereignty.

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Speaker 1: During oral arguments in the Fifth Circuit, McGill did something

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Speaker 1: that shocked some people. He read Yoslyn's enrollment number in

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Speaker 1: Navajo Nation.

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Speaker 5: That is the document by which the Navajo Nation said

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Speaker 5: that she was enrolled as a member number of the

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Speaker 5: Navajo Nation.

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Speaker 3: That number is unique to Yoslin.

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Speaker 1: It's like a driver's license number or social security number.

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Speaker 1: At the time, Yostlin was two Sharp entered the court

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Speaker 1: that morning resolute and hopeful, but by the time it

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Speaker 1: was all over, she was deflated.

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Speaker 2: As I walked out of the court room, I felt terrible.

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Speaker 1: Because of a question Chief Judge Patricia Owens asked.

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Speaker 9: This is purely hypothetical, not pejorative. I suppose Congress decided

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Speaker 9: that Native Americans were particularly subject to alcohol abuse, and

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Speaker 9: that when they were off the reservation, they got into

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Speaker 9: an excessive number of DUI cases and they were treated

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Speaker 9: excessively harshly. Could Congress pass a law that enacted a

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Speaker 9: news sentencing regime for quote Indians defined similar to this,

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Speaker 9: who get into DUIs?

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Speaker 2: The last line of questioning by one of the judges

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Speaker 2: related to drunk Indians and the question that was at

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Speaker 2: the heart of what that justice was after. I think

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Speaker 2: could have been asked in a way that was not

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Speaker 2: as stereotypical of drunk Indians. To have those words being

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Speaker 2: spoken in a courtroom was truly offensive. But after I

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Speaker 2: left the courtroom, I really started to reflect on the

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Speaker 2: fact that we have so much work to do in

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Speaker 2: educating others, and there's still an incredibly large gap between

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Speaker 2: a basic understanding of who we are as tribal people,

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Speaker 2: as tribal nations, and those who are in a direct

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Speaker 2: role of making decisions that directly affect our lives. The

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Speaker 2: questions that they asked were just at such a fundamental

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Speaker 2: level of misunderstanding.

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Speaker 1: It was shocking that lack of understanding allowed the plaintiffs

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Speaker 1: in this case to make some really radical arguments that

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Speaker 1: win against centuries of law about the unique political status

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Speaker 1: of tribes. Sharp remembers one argument in particular from Texas.

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Speaker 2: He made a very bold declaration that we are what

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Speaker 2: did he say, sub sovereigns.

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Speaker 1: Here is what the former Solicitor General of Texas said

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Speaker 1: side note he now works at Gibson Done.

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Speaker 5: It's giving a subordinate sovereign the power to write law

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Speaker 5: that binds state judges in Texas.

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Speaker 2: He has no idea that we've existed from when time began,

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Speaker 2: that we have this unique relationship with the United States,

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Speaker 2: that were the United States, we predated the state of Texas.

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Speaker 2: But yet we're somehow subservient and not on equal footing

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Speaker 2: with any of these other sovereigns. It definitely is so

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Speaker 2: much more than just the welfare of children. I think

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Speaker 2: there's a strategic and aggressive and intentional and a deliberate

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Speaker 2: and a bold effort to undermine every bit of tribal sovereignty.

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Speaker 1: Tribal sovereignty isn't something that the United States gave to tribes.

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Speaker 1: We existed before the United States was even a country,

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Speaker 1: before it was even an idea. And so our sovereignty,

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Speaker 1: our right to self determination over our land, our culture,

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Speaker 1: and our people, it's inherent. Of course, centuries of colonization

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Speaker 1: impacts how much of that sovereignty our tribes can exercise.

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Speaker 1: But during those years of colonization, we fought back and

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Speaker 1: protected important rights that Congress and the courts and even

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Speaker 1: the Constitution recognize. And now people are saying that even

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Speaker 1: those rights went too far and federal courts should take

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Speaker 1: them away. There are big legal reasons why the battle

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Speaker 1: over the Indian Child Welfare Act is about the future

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Speaker 1: existence of tribes, But for Native leaders like Sharp, the

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Speaker 1: well being of Native children of Quinault children has always

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Speaker 1: been about the future of her tribe.

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Speaker 2: I think it's very important for us to understand and

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Speaker 2: recognize where we are as tribal nations in the continuum

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Speaker 2: of our effort to heal, restore, and recover from generations

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Speaker 2: of genocide. This is such a critical time. We've come

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Speaker 2: such a lot in a relatively short time of repatriating

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Speaker 2: our lands, our cultures, and we are just getting to

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Speaker 2: a place where it's so important and we're starting to

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Speaker 2: see the results. We're starting to see another generation of

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Speaker 2: Native citizens and children being born into societies where they

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Speaker 2: can speak their language, where they know their songs, their dance,

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Speaker 2: at a time when we are starting to make such

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Speaker 2: tremendous strides. Now more than ever, we need to protect

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Speaker 2: and ensure every child that's born into our communities and

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Speaker 2: our tribal nations has a fair shot at not only

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Speaker 2: joining us and advancing our tribal nations, but being part

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Speaker 2: of that healing process, because we all have a roll

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Speaker 2: in a part in that.

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Speaker 1: What the Fifth Circuit decided After the break one Tuesday

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Speaker 1: last April, more than a year after we were all

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Speaker 1: in that courtroom together, my phone started blowing up. The

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Speaker 1: decision was out. I downloaded it, read what I could.

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Speaker 1: In the next day called up Matthew Fletcher.

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Speaker 10: I was sitting in my living room watching my son

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Speaker 10: play video games.

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Speaker 3: We've heard from Matthew Fletcher before.

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Speaker 1: He's a citizen of the Grand Traverse Band of Ottawa

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Speaker 1: and Chippewa Indians and law professor at Michigan State University.

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Speaker 10: Oh. I just walked over and said, well, this is

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Speaker 10: going to be bad, and I prepped myself for the

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Speaker 10: inevitable shit show and sat down and tried to download

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Speaker 10: the three and twenty five page opinion, which took a while.

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Speaker 1: When you started to read the opinion, what was your

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Speaker 1: immediate gut reaction.

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Speaker 10: I was very deflated. My stomach sunk into the floor.

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Speaker 10: My reaction was that this is everything that's wrong with

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Speaker 10: the American legal system. And as I read, I realized

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Speaker 10: that law doesn't matter to judges, that it saw politics.

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Speaker 1: It's hard to explain the decision because there basically wasn't one.

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Speaker 1: Remember when I said that the en Banc was a

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Speaker 1: panel of a bunch of judges, Well, that panel had

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Speaker 1: an even number.

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Speaker 10: What I did not expect was that they would split

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Speaker 10: eight to eight on crucially important questions of Indian law

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Speaker 10: constitutional law.

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Speaker 1: There were a few narrow parts of the law, basically sentences,

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Speaker 1: where a majority agreed iqua is unconstitutional, and then a

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Speaker 1: few other parts of the law were a different majority

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Speaker 1: agreed equa is constitutional. But for the most part they

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Speaker 1: couldn't make up their minds.

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Speaker 10: Basically, I'm wavering back and forth between trying to think

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Speaker 10: that this thing is a giant nothing burger, and I'm

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Speaker 10: also trying to say think that this is how close

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Speaker 10: the end of Indian law is that eight out of

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Speaker 10: sixteen judges in the Fifth Circuit would throw the whole

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Speaker 10: thing out the window in a heartbeat.

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Speaker 1: Right now, the split decision seems like it would be

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Speaker 1: a disappointment for both sides, But if your goal is

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Speaker 1: getting this case to the Supreme Court, it's perfect because

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Speaker 1: it's a complete mess. The image I had, and I

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Speaker 1: don't know anything about sports, I don't know why this

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Speaker 1: came to my mind, but it's sort of like the

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Speaker 1: guy who holds the football before someone makes the field goal.

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Speaker 10: I think that's right. More like taking the football and

414
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Speaker 10: just as the person is coming to kick it, throwing it,

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Speaker 10: hitting him in the face with him. It's scary because

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Speaker 10: the Supreme Court is the next stage, and there's a

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Speaker 10: bunch of different things that can happen. It's scary because

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Speaker 10: we don't know what those things are wrongly suspectful. Happened

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Speaker 10: is that the Supreme Court will take this case and

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Speaker 10: they'll take it in the broadest way possible. All issues

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Speaker 10: are on the table, All of federal Indian law is

422
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Speaker 10: on the table, all of the Indian Child Welfare Act

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Speaker 10: is on the table, and they'll just say, let's hash

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Speaker 10: it all out right now, once and for all. And

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Speaker 10: they don't have to do that. That's not what the

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Speaker 10: Supreme Court does. This is not the role of the judiciary.

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Speaker 10: And the reason my stomach sunk into the floor was

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Speaker 10: because it's Indian law and know they're going to do

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Speaker 10: the worst possible thing.

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Speaker 1: At the end of the day, whether or not IQUA

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Speaker 1: stands comes down to nine people. The future of tribal sovereignty,

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Speaker 1: quite literally is in their hands.

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Speaker 6: Now.

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Speaker 3: It's just math.

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Speaker 1: The Supreme Court currently has six conservative justices and three

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Speaker 1: liberal justices. One of the conservative justices has often cited

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Speaker 1: with tribes, and one of the liberal justices voted against

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Speaker 1: Iqua the last time it was in front of the court.

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Speaker 1: Three of the justices are adoptive parents, including the Chief Justice.

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Speaker 3: So what now?

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00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:21,119
Speaker 1: We're still waiting on word from the Supreme Court, and

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00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 1: the stakes are really high. There are so many people

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00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 1: and groups involved in this sprawling lawsuit it's hard to

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00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 1: keep track of. But at the end of the day,

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00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:35,480
Speaker 1: the people who will be most impacted by what happens

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00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 1: next are Native families and Native children.

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Speaker 3: Next time.

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00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 1: On this season's final episode of This Land, we were

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00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 1: that generation yet to count what our ancestors prayed for us.

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00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 3: They wanted us to know who we are. They knew

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00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 3: who many of us were going to be taken far away,

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00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 3: and they prayed for us. So we're not as adoptees.

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00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 4: We're not looking to be pity.

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00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 8: We're not looking We're not victims.

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00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 1: For your relatives who have been stolen, and we made

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00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 1: our path back.

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Speaker 11: All. Hey y'all, Hey, way all, hey, y'all, hey, way,

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00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 11: hey y'all. Hey.

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Speaker 1: This Land is reported, written and hosted by me Rebecca

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00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 1: Nagle Goheen, citizen.

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00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 3: Of Cherokee Nation.

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00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 1: Additional reporting this season from Maddie Stone, Martha troyan citizen.

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00:29:57,600 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 3: Of Obie Chicka kong Lack, Suol First.

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00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 1: Niche, and Amy Westervelt from Cricket Media. Our executive producers

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00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 1: are Jon Favreau, Sarah geismer Lyras Smith and Katie Long,

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00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 1: with special thanks to Alison Falsetta from Critical Frequency. Our

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00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 1: managing producer is Amy Westervelt. Our senior producer is Sarah Ventry,

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00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 1: and our story editor is Raca Murphy. Additional editing from

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00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 1: Martha Trojan and Polly Dennette Claw who is Deney. Sound

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00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 1: design by Lyras Smith, Mark Bush and Charlotte Landis. Original

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00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 1: score composed by Jared Tate, citizen of Chickastan Nation. Our

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00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 1: outra song is an honor song for adoptees, written and

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00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 1: sung by Jerry Dearly, who is Oglala Lakota.

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00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 3: Our fact checker is woodn Yan.

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00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 1: Our First Amendment Attorney is James Wheaton, founder of the

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00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 1: First Amendment Project.

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00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 3: Podcast.

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00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 1: Art by Kelly Gonzalez, citizen of Cherokee Nation.

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00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 3: Jennifer Brakeen's blog.

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00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 1: Was read by voice actor Alissa Zia. If you're enjoying

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00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 1: the show, please rate, review, and subscribe. It helps more

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00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 1: people find us, and please share it with your friends.

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00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 1: If you have a tip or information to share related

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00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 1: to our reporting, you can do that securely and anonymously

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00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 1: through our secure drop. You can find a link in

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00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 1: the show notes to see a timeline of wire Jay's

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00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 1: case and the documents we dug up.

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00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 3: Visit the show's website. This season of This.

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00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 1: Land touches on different forms of family, childhood, and racial trauma.

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00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 1: If you feel like you could use support, please check

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00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 1: our show notes or website this landpodcast dot com to

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00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 1: find resources for adoptees and survivors of childhood trauma, abuse,

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00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 1: foster care, and boarding schools.

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00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 11: Long covered with Joe Hunky along Hop com Board Watch

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Speaker 11: I Got Lord. Oh hok hey, come Chane, Lord, Come okay.

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Speaker 7: Ain't y'all gon by Lord