Speaker 1: Cat. Why are we always waiting for you? You know,
Speaker 1: not always, not always. This morning, my internet was being sunky.
Speaker 1: But here I am an actual excuse, a solid excuse.
Speaker 1: I was late yesterday because a frog stole my shoes.
Speaker 1: It's how ridiculous excuses sound. I'm gonna I'm gonna write
Speaker 1: a strongly worded letter to that frog, because you know
Speaker 1: what's weird is when you lose one shoe. How's that possible?
Speaker 1: How do you lose one shoe? Like? I put them
Speaker 1: on together. I never left the apartment or the house
Speaker 1: with one shoe. I never came back with Well maybe
Speaker 1: there are times where I've come back we just one shoe.
Speaker 1: But it's weird, wet, like when I take them off,
Speaker 1: I put them together, like those two shoes are together.
Speaker 1: It's a strange. Anyways, I'm gonna guess Dan or Rajah
Speaker 1: may have had something to do with that. I don't
Speaker 1: think Rajah. Dan does Dan, But Dan tends to take
Speaker 1: shoes and bring them to me. Dan, for everyone who
Speaker 1: doesn't know, is not a child that I'm keeping under wraps.
Speaker 1: Here is my dog. He's my golden retriever, and he
Speaker 1: likes to bring my shoes to me every now and then,
Speaker 1: just to remind me that he there and he loves me,
Speaker 1: and that's very sweet. Anyway, that was all nonsense. What
Speaker 1: we should be talking about is welcome back to episode
Speaker 1: two of Return to the Shadows. Hello, Shadow fam, welcome
Speaker 1: back to the podcast. We get to talk about a
Speaker 1: brand new episode with you. Guys were very excited about it. Yes.
Speaker 1: In episode two, the race is on to find the
Speaker 1: Mortal Cup and Clary's mother. Clary's memories may have been
Speaker 1: the key to finding her mother and the Mortal Cup.
Speaker 1: With knowledge the Valentine is alive and on the hunt
Speaker 1: for the Mortal Cup, the Institute is on high alert.
Speaker 1: No wanting to waste time, Jay's pumps into action and
Speaker 1: figures that Clary's memories are the key to finding Jocelyn
Speaker 1: and the Mortal Cup. Unfortunately, Clary's memories were wiped out,
Speaker 1: leaving her with no recollection of any of this other
Speaker 1: life that could be the help for her and her team.
Speaker 1: With only one other option remaining, Jason, Isabelle, and a
Speaker 1: very reluctant Alec take Clary to the City of Bones
Speaker 1: to face the powerful Silent Brothers. Meanwhile, Luke continues his
Speaker 1: search for Clary, and Simon tries to come to terms
Speaker 1: with his best friend's new life. So much happening episode two.
Speaker 1: It's exhausting. How did we even get through it? So
Speaker 1: the title of this episode is The Descent to Hell
Speaker 1: Isn't Easy. It aired originally on January nine, sixteen. Was
Speaker 1: written by a doctor and Holly Overton, and directed by
Speaker 1: the wonderful Mick Garris, who incidentally enough directed the original
Speaker 1: miniseries of The Stand Back in the Day, which I
Speaker 1: did the remake of last year on Paramount Plus. How exciting.
Speaker 1: So here we are, Here we are, We're back, We're back.
Speaker 1: Where do we Exactly what happened when we left off?
Speaker 1: So we left with the three of us outside the institute,
Speaker 1: Right outside the decrepit institute. Dead Circle member Simon has
Speaker 1: just seen his first dead body. You're a dressed like
Speaker 1: a leathery drug addict, Yes, hanging out with a complete stranger,
Speaker 1: and the classic visualization of the triangle Clary, come with me, Clary,
Speaker 1: come with me, looking back and forth between these two
Speaker 1: very handsome gentlemen. I stand the reason that Clary potentially
Speaker 1: made the wrong choice there. I think Simon was the
Speaker 1: obvious choice in that in that scenario, Jason's promised that
Speaker 1: there is some way that we could find your mother.
Speaker 1: But Simon's your best power, he'd figure it out with you,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, in any sense of reality, that
Speaker 1: would have been the more reasonable choice. But we're not
Speaker 1: in reality, dumb, or in the shadow world, we are not.
Speaker 1: We deal with reality. We deal with surreality. It's in
Speaker 1: a real word. It is now linked with reality. I
Speaker 1: don't know it is now coining it dom show at
Speaker 1: tm CAT. Yes, when you tell us a little about
Speaker 1: the book to screen stuff that you you and Alberto
Speaker 1: particularly were very good at pointing out things that were
Speaker 1: reflected directly from the book to the screens when you
Speaker 1: hold our hands through some of that. Absolutely, so we
Speaker 1: get to see a lot of elements that we see
Speaker 1: in the first couple of books in this episode. And
Speaker 1: it's these first few episodes going back and watching them,
Speaker 1: I forget how much we had to kind of establish
Speaker 1: and learn even ourselves about this world. You know, we
Speaker 1: learn a lot more about the Circle and the Uprising
Speaker 1: that is sort of the Shadow Hunter's history in this episode,
Speaker 1: and that includes Hodges involvement and you know, all of
Speaker 1: the lineage that all of our characters represent in in
Speaker 1: various different ways. We also get to see the City
Speaker 1: of Bones for the first time, which we'll talk about
Speaker 1: a little bit later because there's much to discuss, sure will,
Speaker 1: and we also get to see a little fun elements.
Speaker 1: Our writers were so good about planting all these easter
Speaker 1: eggs in about the different characters of things that were
Speaker 1: in the books, from Simon and Clary calling themselves a
Speaker 1: package deal, to Isabelle being a bad cook, to Alec
Speaker 1: rolling his eyes all the time, and you know, Jace
Speaker 1: fiddling with his sell the whole Nightmare of the stele
Speaker 1: a season one. These I think we spoke about this
Speaker 1: briefly in the last episode. They were awful. God. They
Speaker 1: were these brittle like made out of I don't even know,
Speaker 1: like the most fragile rock ever to have graced the
Speaker 1: planet with its presidents. But it was it was something
Speaker 1: that I added in because you know, these little, like
Speaker 1: you say, these little cool easter eggs that were directly
Speaker 1: from the books to the TV fans, and you know,
Speaker 1: it's a it's a nice thing for us to be
Speaker 1: able to do and for the writers to do, especially
Speaker 1: as a nod to how these stories started and the
Speaker 1: fans that will you know, irrevocably, We're always is going
Speaker 1: to have fans that read the book and I wasn't
Speaker 1: there perfect Chase or you weren't their perfect Clara or
Speaker 1: whatever it was, you know, the one that they had
Speaker 1: in their minds, and they're not going to be particularly
Speaker 1: happy with that. That's the imagination of how you read books. However,
Speaker 1: I think the more that we could put these little
Speaker 1: pieces in that it's like, hey, guys, we didn't forget
Speaker 1: about you. We know that you started this journey off
Speaker 1: with us, and we're glad you're still here with us.
Speaker 1: So that's really important to show you that we appreciate where,
Speaker 1: you know, we started, and all the credit for that
Speaker 1: really goes to the writers absolutely. So now we step
Speaker 1: inside the Institute and we get to see one of
Speaker 1: my favorite elements of the Shadow World, which is the
Speaker 1: use of the glamor room. Yeah, and we got to
Speaker 1: do this fun you know, our world. I'm not sure
Speaker 1: about you, Cat, but my first sort of foray into
Speaker 1: what big C. G I stuff looks like. And it's
Speaker 1: interesting because you sort of assume that there's going to
Speaker 1: be sort of wind on set, and sometimes there is
Speaker 1: sometimes there's wind and effects and stuff that goes on
Speaker 1: around you. With this, you just sort of stand still
Speaker 1: and imagine that it's happening in front of you. You
Speaker 1: just sort of tend that whatever this thing is is
Speaker 1: going on, which obviously it wasn't. So it's a very
Speaker 1: strange thing for I think Alberta as well hadn't really
Speaker 1: done any c g I, any big c g I
Speaker 1: stuff before, So it's an interesting place to be where
Speaker 1: they're just like, and you know, imagine that this chandelier
Speaker 1: is on the floor and it's being picked up by magic,
Speaker 1: and you know, the painters re growing itself along the walls,
Speaker 1: and the lights are changing, and then these people are appearing,
Speaker 1: and then you know the difference in reaction between obviously
Speaker 1: Jason's seen this thousand times and Simon, who was like,
Speaker 1: good grief for what is going on here? This is absolutelynacy.
Speaker 1: So it was an interesting you know, it was an
Speaker 1: interesting thing for us to do for the first time.
Speaker 1: It was really good fun and it's you know, c
Speaker 1: g I looks so cool in the end, but at
Speaker 1: the beginning it's really just as a lot of talking
Speaker 1: of all of us going Okay, what is this going
Speaker 1: to look like and how do we do this? And
Speaker 1: what are we seeing? And I think, you know, it's
Speaker 1: such a credit to our VFX teams both in season
Speaker 1: one and then Folks VFX who came in for a
Speaker 1: season two and three, because they always had some any
Speaker 1: visuals and so many tools to help us know what
Speaker 1: we were seeing, because oftentimes it was a first ad
Speaker 1: with the tennis ball, which we'll talk about in a
Speaker 1: few episodes. So come back for episode ten, Yeah we
Speaker 1: sure well, but yeah, good fun and then moving on
Speaker 1: the Mortal Cup, so we get to I mean, I
Speaker 1: feel like hot Hodge should be higher up on our
Speaker 1: list of things to discuss. I think John Corp and
Speaker 1: his bulging muscles and his glorious beard and his wonderful
Speaker 1: intensity as an actor should be higher up on the
Speaker 1: list of things that we're going to talk about. And
Speaker 1: as a result, I'm usurping the list that I have
Speaker 1: in front of me, and I'm putting him higher up.
Speaker 1: Do it more, John core So cat you again, this
Speaker 1: is a book, a book differential that you know more about.
Speaker 1: So in the books and actually in the original film
Speaker 1: of the Mortal Instruments as well, we see Hodge depicted
Speaker 1: as sort of a teacher, professor, sque librarian type, older gentleman,
Speaker 1: and in our series, as is want to do as
Speaker 1: we see the series move on. They decided to cast
Speaker 1: arguably the most attractive people possible for any of these roles,
Speaker 1: um but also wonderful humans and brilliant actors who bring
Speaker 1: just as much character as they do looks and aesthetics
Speaker 1: to the show. But the fans very quickly doomed John
Speaker 1: core hot Hodge and I thought it was quite apt, correct, Yeah,
Speaker 1: hot Hodge, there he is. And via hot Hodge and
Speaker 1: his glistening muscles, we get to learn a little more
Speaker 1: about the Circle and a little more about the Mortal Cup, which, again,
Speaker 1: you know, it's interesting when you when you film the
Speaker 1: first two episodes of something, especially when they were based
Speaker 1: on a book, it's entirely too easy sometimes to forget
Speaker 1: that we are welcoming the book fans into our version
Speaker 1: of this world that they already understand thoroughly, and then
Speaker 1: also welcoming an entire group of new people who have
Speaker 1: never experienced this before. So as much as some of
Speaker 1: it might seem a bit clinical when we're talking about
Speaker 1: it on screen, you know this is the circle. There
Speaker 1: was an uprising that happened a generation ago, and they
Speaker 1: were led by this person, and this happened and we
Speaker 1: were punished because of it, and blah blah blah. What
Speaker 1: you have to remember is that we're explaining this for
Speaker 1: people that haven't had any inkling towards our story before.
Speaker 1: So as much as it does sound a little trivial
Speaker 1: at times, it's really important for us a storytellers to
Speaker 1: tell the story to people who don't know. So Hodge
Speaker 1: is sort of our our vehicle, I suppose our storytelling
Speaker 1: vehicle into being like, look, this is what went down.
Speaker 1: The shadow Hunters know, so we can't just dive into
Speaker 1: this story and not explain what's going on. So Hodge
Speaker 1: explaining to clarity is are sort of grounding our first
Speaker 1: grounding of like, this is the history of shadow Hunters.
Speaker 1: This is the war that we thought we had put
Speaker 1: behind us, but seemingly as been thrust back against our gates.
Speaker 1: You're seemingly lovely balanced world that you know, I just
Speaker 1: had to stumble my way into um. But it it
Speaker 1: is interesting, and that's something that you know, we we
Speaker 1: keep seeing with the story over the course of it,
Speaker 1: as we need more characters there. Everything is connected, and
Speaker 1: everything is linked, and there's such a sort of tradition
Speaker 1: to this kind of ancestral world of the Shadow Hunters,
Speaker 1: where all of these families have been ingrained in this
Speaker 1: sort of tradition for generations, and it's up to our
Speaker 1: generation to question everything and to make those changes and
Speaker 1: to kind of try and fix the problems that our
Speaker 1: parents and Hodges and other elements just thought they had
Speaker 1: solved or accepted or put behind them. That just provides
Speaker 1: more and more layers to this this world and this story.
Speaker 1: I agree. It also does say on my notes breakdown
Speaker 1: that Cat and I were the first ones to do
Speaker 1: scenes with John, which actually I think was fairly common
Speaker 1: for us. I think it was normally one or other
Speaker 1: of us, or both of us. I think fairly often
Speaker 1: for us. I'm thinking about, you know, the other sort
Speaker 1: of stars that we had in and it was pretty
Speaker 1: common that it was you and I. Right, you're right down.
Speaker 1: We do off and get the privilege of welcoming people
Speaker 1: into the show, and I think we did that as
Speaker 1: well kind of on a personal level, you know, I
Speaker 1: remember we are a d s got very good at
Speaker 1: telling us, hey, this person is here for their fitting.
Speaker 1: They're over here if you want to say hi, because
Speaker 1: that's you know, that's what we do. We try and
Speaker 1: not only lead the show on screen, but we also
Speaker 1: lead the social life of the show and and try
Speaker 1: and make people feel as welcome and comfortable as possible. Totally.
Speaker 1: Next up, we just got our first inkling of it
Speaker 1: in episode two, Sizzy Beginning to Sizzle. First of all,
Speaker 1: so much fun to say sizzling Sizzy amazing, but we
Speaker 1: do get that first little moment where Alberto just doing
Speaker 1: his amazing Simon thing. You see him sort of deer
Speaker 1: in the headlights with this gorgeous woman's sad stood in
Speaker 1: front of him, and that first little interconnectivity moment, which
Speaker 1: is really wonderful to see. Jason Clary, those relationships picked
Speaker 1: up quite quickly, and we sort of knew the direction
Speaker 1: that they would go going in fairly quickly, whereas is
Speaker 1: He and Simon really took its time and then sort
Speaker 1: of dissipates and they go their separate ways and whatever,
Speaker 1: and that's all to be discovered later and in the series,
Speaker 1: which I think is really cool. But yeah, that was
Speaker 1: our This is our first Sizzy moment. In episode two,
Speaker 1: Season one, and as we're continuing with these you know,
Speaker 1: cooking references, the writers were very good at putting Sizzy
Speaker 1: on a slow simmer for a long time and just
Speaker 1: it was always there. You could always you can always
Speaker 1: catch catch a glimpse of it coming or their connection
Speaker 1: or a whiff of the aroma, yeah coming. I don't
Speaker 1: know this is this is divulging too quickly. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: I'm gonna move on. Here's with him about is he
Speaker 1: not being able to cook? Because is he we see?
Speaker 1: Is he eat normal food? So she's aware that what
Speaker 1: food should taste like? Yeah? So is she not aware
Speaker 1: that her food that she cooks tastes different to that
Speaker 1: she is she entirely unaware that this bowl of like
Speaker 1: sturgion slot that she serves Simon isn't appetizing in any
Speaker 1: way shape or form. I mean potentially. But also, you know,
Speaker 1: we all not not everyone is like you doum, We're
Speaker 1: not all good at everything. Wow, that everyone got that.
Speaker 1: We recorded that, right, That's that's my ringtimee. Now every
Speaker 1: time Cat calls, it is just going to say Dom
Speaker 1: is good at everything. That's amazing and it's lovely. It
Speaker 1: might be my alarm as well, perfect happy to happy
Speaker 1: to help. But you know, if you are accustomed to
Speaker 1: a certain breakfast that you make, or something that is
Speaker 1: becomes a habit in your life, you may not know
Speaker 1: that it's, you know, not the epitome of culinary perfection.
Speaker 1: Fair enough, however, back to Issie's cooking, that does bring
Speaker 1: us back to some of my favorite book moments that
Speaker 1: we finally get to talk about in this episode, being
Speaker 1: the interaction between Alec and Clary and Alec Colin Clary
Speaker 1: a little girl and the my name Isn't Little Girl line,
Speaker 1: which is it's a really icon exchange from the book
Speaker 1: that gets memed a lot and gets made into fans
Speaker 1: aren't quite a bit, And you know, as someone who
Speaker 1: read the books, it's it's always exciting to get to
Speaker 1: do moments like that, or the you know, emotionless g
Speaker 1: I Joe and having Clary and Jays have a conversation
Speaker 1: about wait, what's g I Joe? And you know, it's
Speaker 1: the sort of back and forth of explaining Clari explaining
Speaker 1: the mundane world to Jason, Jason explained the shadow world
Speaker 1: to Clary, and it establishes this really entertaining dynamic between
Speaker 1: all of these characters that sort of moved is on
Speaker 1: fairly neatly to Clary's body relationship with Jace, and I
Speaker 1: think this comfortability for these two characters came from one
Speaker 1: both being outsiders, which is a very normal human trait,
Speaker 1: which I think was one of the things we did
Speaker 1: very well in the show is pairing the fantasy ridiculous
Speaker 1: storyline with this reality that like, oh, I've been through
Speaker 1: that and that makes sense to me, you know. But
Speaker 1: I think that the cool thing we did about this
Speaker 1: budding relationship is so much of it was based in instinct,
Speaker 1: So much of it was based in her being enveloped
Speaker 1: in this world and just making an understanding sort of
Speaker 1: process that hadn't really had legs to do so in
Speaker 1: the past. And we sort of discussed this a little
Speaker 1: more in episode three, where your instincts start to take
Speaker 1: over and we feel what that feels like between the
Speaker 1: two of them. But I think that was a really
Speaker 1: cool This is a really cool start to this where
Speaker 1: Clary really does lean into Chase Um and Jace, you know,
Speaker 1: really brings her under his wing because he understands this,
Speaker 1: He understands who she is, he understands what it's like
Speaker 1: being astray. And not only that, which you know, we
Speaker 1: never really discussed before filming, but Matt and I have
Speaker 1: discussed since is Jason's role in this In this relation,
Speaker 1: Chip very much became Alex role in Jason's life when
Speaker 1: Jace first met the light Woods and when Jason was
Speaker 1: first brought into their family. The reason Jace, I think,
Speaker 1: is so passionate about doing it is because he's seen
Speaker 1: his big brother do this once before. He understands what
Speaker 1: this is like, and he understands sort of the pay
Speaker 1: it forward motion of what this is like, oh or
Speaker 1: maybe less so of like an emotional connection to it,
Speaker 1: just more in a very shadow Hunters he way, this
Speaker 1: is how we do things. Like someone brought me in
Speaker 1: and they took care of me, and I now have
Speaker 1: this other sort of lost little bird that needs to
Speaker 1: be taken care of, and like, is it just how
Speaker 1: we do it. I'm going to take care of this
Speaker 1: one exactly, which I thought was interesting and it's a
Speaker 1: really cool way to start this relationshipt And and you know,
Speaker 1: as he's talking about instincts, Jas has instincts of his
Speaker 1: own and sees that potential and Clary and sees as
Speaker 1: you said, this last little burden. And you know, Clary
Speaker 1: is kind of at this point floundering and trying to
Speaker 1: get some kind of solid ground underneath her, and Jace
Speaker 1: becomes that, and Jace encourages her and and kind of
Speaker 1: brings her into this world and gives her the confidence
Speaker 1: to trust those instincts, whether they be the visions that
Speaker 1: she has because of the portal shard, or knowing where
Speaker 1: to find Dot, or you know, any of these other
Speaker 1: elements that we get to see moving forward, which then
Speaker 1: then a whole mess of ship happens from there. But
Speaker 1: oh my goodness, I think if you're if you're doing
Speaker 1: what I think you're doing. The solid ground thing has
Speaker 1: pinned a link to me, which I think is hilarious
Speaker 1: that that's worked out that way. Cat tell us, tell
Speaker 1: us about clumsy Cat, tell us about Let's let this
Speaker 1: episode two is the first time we really got to
Speaker 1: meet clumsy Cat, which was fun. Tell Us about clumsy Cat.
Speaker 1: I'm sure that was so fun for you. So, as
Speaker 1: many people know, I am not the most graceful individual
Speaker 1: from time to time. Most of the time I trip
Speaker 1: over nothing constantly. But you know, we were all still
Speaker 1: getting to know each other, and I was still getting
Speaker 1: to know the crew, and you know, I wanted to
Speaker 1: I want to look cool and I went, which is
Speaker 1: not a MA nature, and I wanted to be able
Speaker 1: to be like a badass with everybody else. And we
Speaker 1: had this great scene that they'd set up in Pandemonium
Speaker 1: during the day. We were going to find Dot and
Speaker 1: storming the castle in a way, and I was flanked
Speaker 1: by you and Matt. We were just walking in, taking
Speaker 1: the place by storm to go find Magnus. And we
Speaker 1: turned the corner and I was in eight inch stiletto
Speaker 1: boots and may or may not have slipped, and next
Speaker 1: thing I knew, I was on my butt and facing
Speaker 1: an entirely different direction. And I think I provided some
Speaker 1: solid comedic entertainment for the entire crew and you, but
Speaker 1: not necessarily my original intention. For four years. For four years,
Speaker 1: that happened, like we would walk on set. There were
Speaker 1: times where we would walk on set and we'd look
Speaker 1: at the floor and be like, there's no way, there's
Speaker 1: no way she can do this. There's no no way
Speaker 1: on earth unless they've given her normal shoes. It wasn't
Speaker 1: your fault, by the way, like the aesthetic for the
Speaker 1: show was these high heels and this like cool thing
Speaker 1: for you guys to be in, and it looked amazing,
Speaker 1: but there were a lot of times where you're like, nah,
Speaker 1: there's it just can't happen. There's no way. The irony
Speaker 1: being the only person I think in the cast who
Speaker 1: got sent to the hospital was me, and I had
Speaker 1: normal shoes on the whole time. I had regular like
Speaker 1: the shoes. I had like combat boots on that were
Speaker 1: designed for combat, like normal things. And I got sent
Speaker 1: to the hospital and Cat didn't. He But the thing
Speaker 1: is four years in when somebody trips on set and
Speaker 1: they go, oh, I pulled a cat. You know you're
Speaker 1: the one who trips all the time. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, Yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 1: let's move on, Cat, What do you want next? What
Speaker 1: is your focus being drawn to? So now Luke has
Speaker 1: a really interesting role in this episode when he discovers
Speaker 1: that Clary saw him talking to the Circle members, and
Speaker 1: you know, being the astute detective that he is, puts
Speaker 1: the clues together to discover that she probably has the
Speaker 1: wrong impression of what's going on. But you know, it's
Speaker 1: it's interesting because that's another change from the book. I
Speaker 1: don't know if you recall this, but in the books,
Speaker 1: Luke owns an antique bookstore, which is something that gets
Speaker 1: brought in in season three does the show, but we'll
Speaker 1: talk about that later. But having him be a police
Speaker 1: officer instead lends itself to Isaiah Mustafa quite well, given
Speaker 1: that he is, you know, the the imposing badass figure
Speaker 1: that he is. But also it provides this kind of,
Speaker 1: as you said earlier, an element of reality being brought
Speaker 1: into the world and this kind of other avenue to explore. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: And one of the fun things about Isaiah two is
Speaker 1: he's Isaiah such a softie, like, he's such a He's
Speaker 1: just like a gentle like caring, big, like huggable dude.
Speaker 1: That's who he is. And he really looks after, you know,
Speaker 1: all of the people around him sort of constantly, which
Speaker 1: is really nice. So to see him that first little
Speaker 1: sort of foe like is he a bad guy? Think?
Speaker 1: I don't know how many people bought that, because he
Speaker 1: does such a good job at being like this caring
Speaker 1: father figure. So I think that might be why that
Speaker 1: storyline didn't last very long, because everyone was like him
Speaker 1: captain lovable. I don't know. I think he's a good guy.
Speaker 1: I think he's a good dude, and we like him
Speaker 1: as a good guy. You know, it's very hard to
Speaker 1: believe that the most lovable of us arguably could ever
Speaker 1: be a villain, although we all got to, we all
Speaker 1: got to have our villainous street from time to time,
Speaker 1: we all had villainous moments. Yeah, absolutely, all of us,
Speaker 1: all of us on this podcast currently, Simon never have.
Speaker 1: Yeah does he win well? Actually episode nine of season
Speaker 1: one when he's learning his um yeah, oh yeah, a
Speaker 1: little bit. Yeah. Throughout the show, actually it happens a
Speaker 1: couple of times he does. He absolutely does. But we'll
Speaker 1: get to that. We will get to that. But now
Speaker 1: we tackle the fact. Once we can't find Dot and
Speaker 1: Magnus won't can't recover the memories, the only recourse, as
Speaker 1: Jace varies to points out, is Silent Brothers. We have
Speaker 1: to go to the Silent Brothers, much to alex chagrin,
Speaker 1: which I have to say, I love grumpy Alex so
Speaker 1: much and I miss grumpy Alec from time to time.
Speaker 1: I forgot how absolutely hysterical Matt Didario is as grumpy
Speaker 1: cat Alec. You know what's fun is I know, I
Speaker 1: notice it. The fans find it, and there are some
Speaker 1: really cool There are some really cool like screen moments,
Speaker 1: like screen capped moments of Matt being grumpy Aleck Like.
Speaker 1: There's one of my one of my absolute all time
Speaker 1: favorite ones is when you guys, this is in season two,
Speaker 1: I think, and you knock on Iris Rouse's house townhouse car,
Speaker 1: remember exactly who it is? You're not, but they you
Speaker 1: get asked, oh is this your boyfriend? And he's just
Speaker 1: in there but no words. He just goes like and
Speaker 1: it's the most hilarious reaction, like that grumpy Alc moment
Speaker 1: of like, no, he isn't, why are you asking me that?
Speaker 1: But potentially my favorite grumpy Alic moment happens in this episode,
Speaker 1: and it's sort of I don't know if you remember,
Speaker 1: became a Magadario classic. Matt is the original Salt Bay.
Speaker 1: We know this because he he had this moment on
Speaker 1: set where Simon and Izzy and we all of us
Speaker 1: were talking and he just goes, I can't be here anymore,
Speaker 1: and this just became a thing. I don't know if
Speaker 1: for those of you who are watching, is a very
Speaker 1: specific hand movement that goes along with that, very very Maddorio,
Speaker 1: very Mandadario and still happens to this day. If I
Speaker 1: say something that upsets him, he'll give me the not
Speaker 1: interested in what you're saying. Very funny, We're a big fan. Interestingly,
Speaker 1: in this episode we visit the City of Bones. It's
Speaker 1: the dreaded city of Bones, which we need to discuss.
Speaker 1: We do need to discuss the City of Bones. Were
Speaker 1: called over to The Strain, which is another show that
Speaker 1: shot in Toronto at the time, said hey, you have catacombs, right,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of bones and things. Can we throw
Speaker 1: a couple of runs in there for a day and
Speaker 1: stitched up mouths and and a statue which was the
Speaker 1: same statue they used in the film. It was we
Speaker 1: have two of those. We have two of those in
Speaker 1: this episode we do. We have the statue and do
Speaker 1: you want to tell the folks at home with the other?
Speaker 1: So are Silent Brother Stephen, who is the man with
Speaker 1: the voice as we actually really never really got to
Speaker 1: see his face that often unless you caught him in
Speaker 1: the makeup trailer. You wouldn't see his face because he
Speaker 1: was in the silent brother facade the whole time. But
Speaker 1: Stephen was our silent brother and was also the silent
Speaker 1: brother in the movie, so we got to transfer him,
Speaker 1: but which was really good fun. I mean, he really
Speaker 1: is the only person who could have played brother Jeremiah agreed.
Speaker 1: The height and the voice, and he just embodies that
Speaker 1: sort of spirit of gravitas. Yeah, agreed, agreed, and then
Speaker 1: obviously the statue we had Yeah, and and you know
Speaker 1: it's it's again another time where Clary entirely puts her
Speaker 1: trust in Jace and Jason's This is the other thing
Speaker 1: that I think is why she's able to trust him
Speaker 1: so much, because he's honest with her. He goes, look,
Speaker 1: there's about you're going to die. Are you okay with this?
Speaker 1: And she says, yeah, you were honest, So let's do this.
Speaker 1: I want to find my mom. And again that kind
Speaker 1: of establishes that team dynamic. I mean, Clary will never
Speaker 1: replace Alec as a parabatie, but Jason Clary are another
Speaker 1: kind of They become a team in battle in another sense,
Speaker 1: in in many of the circumstances in the show, and
Speaker 1: I think this is kind of the first time we
Speaker 1: see that and see them going, look, these are the risks,
Speaker 1: this is what's going to happen. Are you good? And
Speaker 1: they kind of take that leap of faith together, sometimes literally. Yeah.
Speaker 1: We'll talk about that day, the leap of faith day,
Speaker 1: much later on in the podcast series because maass me
Speaker 1: off who I was upset about that that day. But
Speaker 1: we'll talk about that another day, another day. This is
Speaker 1: interesting in the notes, I didn't know that Nephelim facilis
Speaker 1: was wrong. It was incorrectly on the sword. What saying it? Am? I? Oh,
Speaker 1: have I made that up this morning? No? You didn't,
Speaker 1: but I didn't. I didn't an acting Oh I see,
Speaker 1: Oh I see, I see, I see, I see. So
Speaker 1: you did know that that was a thing with the
Speaker 1: be Sorry, I didn't know that. I didn't know that
Speaker 1: that was the case, which is strange because I'm pretty
Speaker 1: sure I couldn't learn the Latin, so I just read
Speaker 1: it off the sword that day. So it's possible that
Speaker 1: I said it wrong in the show as well. Latin's
Speaker 1: not It wasn't one for me. Latin we never had
Speaker 1: to learn. I should have known, given that I took
Speaker 1: Latin in high school, but it had been been a
Speaker 1: few years from me. But also it's you know, we
Speaker 1: get to see the city of Bones, and we get
Speaker 1: to see again another iconic book moment brought in, and
Speaker 1: it brings up another massive element that I realized now
Speaker 1: that you know, having read the books and going into it,
Speaker 1: I knew, but the audience for the first time, if
Speaker 1: they hadn't read the books, finds out that Valentine, this
Speaker 1: big bad that's been set up, as you know, brilliantly
Speaker 1: by Allen van Spraying as our sort of Darth Vader, Voldemort,
Speaker 1: epitome of all evil, is Clari's father. Not good, not good,
Speaker 1: Oh dear, not good, not good. So, you know, just
Speaker 1: giving Alec more fodder for their kind of hate chip
Speaker 1: to contentious relationship, to lack of trust in this little
Speaker 1: girl who has so vituitously stumbled into the world, and
Speaker 1: and maybe gives Jason a moment of pause. Interesting, there
Speaker 1: is definitely a moment and I remember this and I
Speaker 1: remember talking about it with Mike, that moment of like, oh, ship,
Speaker 1: that's not good. We made a huge mistake helping this
Speaker 1: person out, Like because Alec is right, he says, like,
Speaker 1: I can't remember if it's in this episode or later on,
Speaker 1: but he goes this girl just come drops out of
Speaker 1: the blue, a new shadow Hunter who we've never met,
Speaker 1: before and happens to be the daughter of our greatest enemy.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, yeah, I don't really have answer great
Speaker 1: when you put it like that, Yeah, it's not good,
Speaker 1: but we're gonna help anyway. I say this, and I
Speaker 1: will say this phrase more and more as we go on.
Speaker 1: The shadow Hunters are not very bright. We don't make
Speaker 1: good decisions. As a general rule. We don't make good
Speaker 1: decisions because that makes good television. If we if every time,
Speaker 1: you know, every time you watched a horror movie and
Speaker 1: you're sat in your chair at home, going, don't go
Speaker 1: in there. There's a bad guy in there. He's going
Speaker 1: to kill you. If they didn't go in that would
Speaker 1: be a boring film. So what we do with shadow
Speaker 1: Hunters is you screaming your TV. Don't do that. This
Speaker 1: person is behind you. They're going to kill you. Or
Speaker 1: if you go in there, you're going to do this.
Speaker 1: Or if you grab the swords, you're gonna kill everyone,
Speaker 1: like all of this stuff, and we're just like, we're
Speaker 1: gonna do it. We're gonna do it. We're gonna ignore
Speaker 1: all of our training. We're just gonna do it. Happens
Speaker 1: a lot, but equally to for Clary at this moment
Speaker 1: of you know, she doesn't have her memories, she doesn't
Speaker 1: know any of this, and already feeling helpless and lied
Speaker 1: to in a way by her mother about her entire past,
Speaker 1: then just finding out another layer of oh great, So
Speaker 1: not only did my mother lie to me about what
Speaker 1: I am, who I am, and she's gone and all this,
Speaker 1: she also failed to tell me that my father is
Speaker 1: basically the epitome of all evil great and the one
Speaker 1: person that's helping me. Now, you know, all of that
Speaker 1: trust may be undermined, and I maybe just completely out
Speaker 1: and and alone. And then even more so when we
Speaker 1: exit the City of Bones, having just learned this information,
Speaker 1: both Jason Clary reeling, we find that Clary's only other,
Speaker 1: one solid piece of stability has now been strung upside
Speaker 1: down by the one and only David Castro as Rafael
Speaker 1: Santiago Rafael, one of our most influential young vampires, young
Speaker 1: vampire's right, but our most influential vampires. Oh, poor, poor people,
Speaker 1: poor guys. Honestly, just bad to worse. It's a constant
Speaker 1: bad to worse scenario. This is Alberto's first time being
Speaker 1: hung upside down. Yes, and when we get Alberto on
Speaker 1: the show, we're going to talk about how many times
Speaker 1: he got hung upside down, how because it happened. It
Speaker 1: happened quite a bit, hung upside down, tied up, stuck
Speaker 1: to a chair, just everything. The poor guy, oh god,
Speaker 1: stuck to us sofa that right, Yeah, he kind of
Speaker 1: went through it. He went through it. This is a
Speaker 1: fun thing for that to happen. And also, obviously we
Speaker 1: didn't put those actors up at the top of the
Speaker 1: of the you know, precipice in this in this massive
Speaker 1: under hanging bridge, they were obviously on a green screen.
Speaker 1: And for those who don't know the intricacies of how
Speaker 1: a green screen works, it's very similar to what we
Speaker 1: were talking about earlier with the chain jing of the
Speaker 1: institute and this c g I computer generated imaging that
Speaker 1: happens post us filming it. They added all in later
Speaker 1: with a computer. A green screen is very similar. So
Speaker 1: they will hang poor Alberto upside down on a very
Speaker 1: solid rig with matting underneath him. So if anything goes wrong,
Speaker 1: Peo falls onto something comfortable with literally a green colored
Speaker 1: screen behind him, which is then easily deleted with a computer.
Speaker 1: I actually think there are a lot of like Instagram
Speaker 1: filters and stuff now that used that a very similar
Speaker 1: premise where you can put something behind you. But that's
Speaker 1: this is sort of how it originated, was in film
Speaker 1: and TV being able to erase a background and add
Speaker 1: in a new background. And that's how we shot this
Speaker 1: scene with those three obviously up in this massive tool
Speaker 1: bridge they were in I believe our stunt room. Were
Speaker 1: they in our stunt room and that's where they hung
Speaker 1: them upside down? It was either a stunt room or
Speaker 1: I think it's I think where it actually was was
Speaker 1: what became our second sound stage because we didn't have
Speaker 1: We only really had one or two sets built. We
Speaker 1: had the Hotel dam More slash Magnus's apartment set, and
Speaker 1: we had the Institute set, and then our second down
Speaker 1: stage became Simon's house and we had Jade Wolf in there,
Speaker 1: but we didn't really have much else, and so you know,
Speaker 1: that kind of became our rotating set that they would
Speaker 1: build different things that we had. We had a few
Speaker 1: more established sets in the future, but at that point
Speaker 1: that was just kind of where they would throw things up.
Speaker 1: You know, we should do let's not mention what is
Speaker 1: and isn't a set okay yet, and later on, let's
Speaker 1: once these have sort of been released, let's later on,
Speaker 1: let's let's run a pole. Let's run a pole to
Speaker 1: see how many people think certain sets are sets versus
Speaker 1: which sets are actually on location act they think they
Speaker 1: did such a good job with so many of them.
Speaker 1: I think that's a really cool idea if we put
Speaker 1: you know, let's say fifty of our locations up, ignoring
Speaker 1: the obvious ones. The institute obviously was we built that
Speaker 1: in the studio, and I think most people have sort
Speaker 1: of seen that, But a lot of these other ones
Speaker 1: you wouldn't necessarily be sure because they did such a
Speaker 1: good job. So it would be interesting. It would be
Speaker 1: interesting for people to sort of judge whether or not, like,
Speaker 1: did they do this? Did they do this? So let's
Speaker 1: let's put an earmark in that for the future, and
Speaker 1: maybe we'll run a little a little competition and the
Speaker 1: winner gets to take cat. There's no way anyway. We
Speaker 1: discussed sort of somewhat the accouterra math that you have
Speaker 1: your outfits and how potentially unwelcoming they were to the environment.
Speaker 1: So why don't you tell us? Why don't you tell us?
Speaker 1: From the horse's mouth as it were, what the issue
Speaker 1: was on this day. Well, at this point, Clary is
Speaker 1: still wearing Isabelle's clothing because she has yet to you know,
Speaker 1: Amazon prime some leather jackets of her own to the institute,
Speaker 1: or however the shadow Hunters get their clothes. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I just assume Amarand and I used to always talk
Speaker 1: about this. I just assume that, you know, they're constantly
Speaker 1: delivering different things to the outside of this old, decrepit church,
Speaker 1: and either we have someone on the inside of ups
Speaker 1: or just people just leave boxes and have no idea
Speaker 1: where they go. However it happens, it happens. But it
Speaker 1: happened to rain that night that we were out under
Speaker 1: the bridge filming all of this, and in order to
Speaker 1: attempt to make it less muddy, because all of us
Speaker 1: tended to sink into that ground as we were running
Speaker 1: downhill to the van, they put plywood down, and then
Speaker 1: they put leaves and other accoutrement to disguise this plywood
Speaker 1: so it didn't look like they just slapped it something
Speaker 1: on the ground in the middle of nowhere. But in essence,
Speaker 1: what that led to, in my it inched a lot
Speaker 1: of boots is a bit of ice skating down the hill,
Speaker 1: and as Dom knows, I am not good at ice skating,
Speaker 1: as you will all know at some point in there,
Speaker 1: not too just a future. We discussed cats ice skating
Speaker 1: ability for sure, sure, but you know, there was a
Speaker 1: very particular take that I think again clumsy cat rises
Speaker 1: again and Dom you've got a bit of a kick
Speaker 1: out of. As we were renting down the hill with
Speaker 1: my gusto, I started sliding and ended up face planting
Speaker 1: into the pandavan, which I was very glad it was
Speaker 1: there to catch me, but it was not the most
Speaker 1: comfortable of things to run into. But again, comic relief,
Speaker 1: comic relief, solid comic relief for the day. I mean, look,
Speaker 1: thank god you weren't injured. Obviously that it was the
Speaker 1: number one thing we want to avoid. But yeah, it
Speaker 1: was a little like you know, once it starts going,
Speaker 1: once someone starts sliding, it's that sort of slow motion
Speaker 1: car crash thing where like someone should do something, but
Speaker 1: nobody has the ability, So I guess she's just going
Speaker 1: to hit it. What we do, She's just going to
Speaker 1: literally and that was, yeah, that's what happened. But you know, honestly,
Speaker 1: credited credit to you. Cat. You know, you pick yourself
Speaker 1: up and you dust yourself off and you keep going.
Speaker 1: And that's a mark of a true professional. That's what
Speaker 1: we all do, as we will discover next week. I
Speaker 1: have some fun stories, were not fun some story. I
Speaker 1: have some stories about what happened in episode three. I
Speaker 1: have some more stories, but credit. I want to give
Speaker 1: some credit quickly to a few people in this. First
Speaker 1: of all, well, you have to understand as a guest star,
Speaker 1: so there are like tears of um, I guess contracts
Speaker 1: when you come into a TV show and they offer
Speaker 1: you a different sort of a different role within within
Speaker 1: the family when you joined the show. So for example,
Speaker 1: the roles that Cat and I had, and Matt and
Speaker 1: Emerald and Alberto and Harry and Isaiah, we were series regular,
Speaker 1: so we were we were signed under a contract and
Speaker 1: we sort of knew us seven we're going to be
Speaker 1: kind of the core group of what we created this
Speaker 1: world around that's great, So we obviously spent the most
Speaker 1: time together. Then you get characters like David, like Raphael
Speaker 1: who come in and they're called guest stars and they
Speaker 1: come in for an undetermined amount of episodes and just
Speaker 1: have to be a part of this family as if
Speaker 1: they have been with us the entire time, when we
Speaker 1: have trained together, and we have learned fight scenes together,
Speaker 1: and we developed these car together. And these guest stars
Speaker 1: have to come in and just just perform as if
Speaker 1: they've been a part of this world forever. And they
Speaker 1: do such a good job. And it's honestly one of
Speaker 1: the harder jobs on set to do, because it's terrifying.
Speaker 1: It's a terrifying thing to do. You don't know these people,
Speaker 1: you don't know the crew, you don't you know, and
Speaker 1: it's very rare that you come in and people are
Speaker 1: rude to your mean to you, but you never know,
Speaker 1: so you're coming in just completely on your own. It's
Speaker 1: like joining a new school three years into the school,
Speaker 1: you know, term. It's it's really hard work. And they
Speaker 1: all do such a good job. And David particularly sat
Speaker 1: in very very well with us. And then also we
Speaker 1: we were talking about the Silent Brothers earlier, and as
Speaker 1: all of you who've watched the episode will have noticed,
Speaker 1: I'm sure they have sewn up eyes and sewn up mouths.
Speaker 1: Are you Silent Brothers? And they are in that for
Speaker 1: the day, especially Stephen is in that. I think Stephen
Speaker 1: actually had the makeup on his face. There was the
Speaker 1: prosthetics over his eyes so we literally can't open his eyes,
Speaker 1: and then prosthetics over his mouth as well, so all
Speaker 1: he really eats for the days and the thing he
Speaker 1: can get through us draw in between the suitures in
Speaker 1: his lips, and I think towards the end some of
Speaker 1: the other guys had pre built masks on so they
Speaker 1: could just take those off and they were okay. But Stephen,
Speaker 1: another one of our guest stars, came in and didn't complain.
Speaker 1: He just did his thing, and he was in it
Speaker 1: for the hours that he was in it four and
Speaker 1: at the end of the day got to take it
Speaker 1: off and we would share cigarettes with each other outside,
Speaker 1: which was hilarious watching him trying to smoke through a
Speaker 1: little gap in his lips suits and then get rid
Speaker 1: of it. Um. But guest stars deserve so much more
Speaker 1: credit than I think they're given, because they really do
Speaker 1: have a really tough job, and I will give credit
Speaker 1: to them as as and when they come along throughout
Speaker 1: the series because they do an amazing job well, especially
Speaker 1: with the show like ours that has so much mythology
Speaker 1: and and so much to kind of play catch up on.
Speaker 1: You know, they're not given a they're not given a
Speaker 1: shadow hunt, just codex when they get to work in
Speaker 1: the morning. But we did keep one in the hair
Speaker 1: and makeup trailer. We did keep one. Yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: know where that ended up. We did keep one. We
Speaker 1: also also there are times when they didn't know what
Speaker 1: had happened previously in the story. They would come in
Speaker 1: and you know, hadn't been given the script in between.
Speaker 1: So let's say a character Nicola is a good example,
Speaker 1: comes in, you know, and there's been eight episodes in between.
Speaker 1: So she came in episode two, and then she comes
Speaker 1: in again in episode ten and she's like hey, walking
Speaker 1: onto set, she's like, hey, just so I know what
Speaker 1: has happened between then and now, And I'm like, oh, ship,
Speaker 1: hang on, A whole lot of stuff has happened. Just
Speaker 1: so you know, my last name isn't the same as
Speaker 1: it was last time you came in. Rights, We're gonna
Speaker 1: say that so many things, but also too, as to
Speaker 1: your point, a lot of these guest stars that come
Speaker 1: in are playing these characters that have hindering elements, whether
Speaker 1: it be a stitched up mouth or you know, David
Speaker 1: was in that white makeup for a lot of Season one,
Speaker 1: and so many you know, our Celis had the ears,
Speaker 1: and some of our like Hubert and some of the
Speaker 1: guys who came in to play Demons were in full
Speaker 1: silicones suits head toe for and or more hours a day.
Speaker 1: And it just really speaks to the teamwork not only
Speaker 1: of our hair and makeup and wardrobe and prosthetics teams
Speaker 1: that that helped these people through the day, but to
Speaker 1: how great of sports these actors were to come in
Speaker 1: and go, yeah, sure, I'll do this for you know,
Speaker 1: ten or more hours a day, and I'll figure this
Speaker 1: out and play ball with all of you as we
Speaker 1: kind of build this world. And it I think that's
Speaker 1: why we ended up bringing so many people back, because
Speaker 1: we had so many fantastic performers come in and just
Speaker 1: absolutely knock it out of the park, which made it
Speaker 1: fun for us, because sometimes when you have a new
Speaker 1: character coming in, you don't know you're just meeting as
Speaker 1: you walk onto set and you don't know how it's
Speaker 1: going to be, or you haven't had a chemistry test
Speaker 1: with them and you have no idea what you're gonna
Speaker 1: gonna get and time and time again. We were so
Speaker 1: impressed by these folks who came in and just absolutely
Speaker 1: brought so much to the world and helped to fill
Speaker 1: it out in such a beautiful way and became a
Speaker 1: part of our our family up in Toronto. Yeah, absolutely, alrighty, well, listen,
Speaker 1: I think that brings us pretty neatly towards the end
Speaker 1: of the episodes, and I think, Cat, what can you
Speaker 1: tease about what's coming next? I know what I can tease,
Speaker 1: but I don't. I feel like it gives away quite
Speaker 1: a lot. Yeah. Well, I think we have a couple
Speaker 1: of key things we can tease. Vampires, more vampires, vampires,
Speaker 1: lots of vampires, motorcycles, a motorcycle. Oh no, there are more.
Speaker 1: You're right, now, you're right, You're right, there's more, just
Speaker 1: only ride one. One key motorcycle. One very specific motorcycle,
Speaker 1: very motorcycle. Glamours. We see glamors for the first time.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, lots of glamours. And I can't remember what
Speaker 1: we're after, but we're after something, Simon at this point,
Speaker 1: I mean, we're still after Jocelyn. Yeah, because remember he
Speaker 1: gets taken at the end of three and then at
Speaker 1: the end of two and three is when we go
Speaker 1: get him. Yeah, it doesn't matter, we'll discuss it in
Speaker 1: the next episode. We're all going to figure it out together.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be great. We're gonna figure out what we're
Speaker 1: after together. What else can we tease? I had a
Speaker 1: pretty I I had a traumatic time in episode three. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you all about it when we
Speaker 1: discussed it on the podcast. But I had I had
Speaker 1: a rough time in episode three. Yeah, it was. It
Speaker 1: was a rough time, but you were you were a
Speaker 1: trooper through it, you know, despite that day that you had,
Speaker 1: and you know, we're going to talk about it, but
Speaker 1: it all happened in the course of a few hours.
Speaker 1: You still had a smile on your face, and you
Speaker 1: still still made it work, and you still were, you know,
Speaker 1: somewhat toothless smile, you might even say, still shining. Nonetheless,
Speaker 1: my dear Yeah, well, listen everyone, thank you so much
Speaker 1: as always for being a part of our Return to
Speaker 1: the Shadows. Thank you for listening, and we will see
Speaker 1: you next time, and we will bid you Haren Dale
Speaker 1: and farewell. Return to the Shadows as hosted an executive
Speaker 1: produced by Katherine McNamara and Dominic Sherwood. Our executive producer
Speaker 1: is Langley. Our senior producers are Liz Hayes and Diego Tapia,
Speaker 1: and our producers are Hannah Harris and Kristin Vermilia. Original
Speaker 1: music by Alex Kinsey and performed by Alex Kinsey and
Speaker 1: Kathryn McNamara. The episode was mixed by Said the Landscape