WEBVTT - Capítulo 220: Storytelling Is Personal with Peniley Ramirez 0:00:03.720 --> 0:00:07.680 Lok at Our Radio is a radiophonic novela. 0:00:06.840 --> 0:00:10.320 Which is just a very extra way of saying a podcast. 0:00:10.960 --> 0:00:12.240 I'm fiosa fem. 0:00:12.280 --> 0:00:15.880 And I am ma la munios. We're podcasting through another 0:00:16.040 --> 0:00:19.799 Trump election year. We've been podcasting through election years, a 0:00:19.840 --> 0:00:23.560 global pandemic, civic unrest, political controversies, the Me Too movement, 0:00:23.560 --> 0:00:26.160 the rise of TikTok, and we are still here. We're 0:00:26.200 --> 0:00:27.640 not done telling stories. 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:32.240 We're still making podcasts. We're older, we're wiser, We're even 0:00:32.320 --> 0:00:35.520 podcasting through a new decade of our lives. 0:00:35.920 --> 0:00:38.720 Since twenty sixteen, we've been making Loca to Our Radio 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:43.680 independently until we joined iHeartMedia's Michael Gura Network in twenty 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:44.240 twenty two. 0:00:44.920 --> 0:00:47.600 From our Lips to your ears, Fall in love with 0:00:47.640 --> 0:00:50.120 Loka to a radio like you never have before. 0:00:50.640 --> 0:00:54.000 Welcome to Season nine. Love that first Listen. 0:00:57.520 --> 0:01:01.280 Ola la Loka Morees. Welcome to Season nine of lok 0:01:01.280 --> 0:01:05.080 at Dora Radio. I'm Theosa and I'm Mala. Lok A 0:01:05.160 --> 0:01:08.920 Dora Radio is a podcast dedicated to archiving our present 0:01:09.160 --> 0:01:13.400 and shifting the culture forward. You're tuning into Capitolo Doos 0:01:14.160 --> 0:01:15.200 two twenty. 0:01:15.200 --> 0:01:19.040 Last time on locatora Radio. We answered listener questions during 0:01:19.120 --> 0:01:22.240 our Oya Loka segment. You guys submitted some really really 0:01:22.280 --> 0:01:25.679 good questions. It was a very fun episode. We laughed, 0:01:25.720 --> 0:01:28.200 we cried, we told stories the whole thing. There were 0:01:28.200 --> 0:01:31.080 literal tears, literal tears in the studios. 0:01:31.160 --> 0:01:36.000 All right, Next question, what made you finally prioritize yourself? 0:01:36.640 --> 0:01:38.280 Was it a breaking point with people? 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:40.360 Have we prioritized ourselves? 0:01:40.480 --> 0:01:40.840 I don't know. 0:01:40.880 --> 0:01:42.280 I think we were doing better at it. 0:01:42.680 --> 0:01:44.320 I think you're doing better at it. 0:01:44.560 --> 0:01:47.600 Yeah, well I think you are too. I think I 0:01:47.640 --> 0:01:50.880 think you moving was a way of you like prioritizing 0:01:50.880 --> 0:01:53.320 yourself and like a new phase of your life, like 0:01:53.400 --> 0:01:54.320 giving yourself that. 0:01:54.440 --> 0:01:56.840 Like, so go ahead and tune into that. Capitula leave 0:01:56.920 --> 0:01:59.640 us a review, and today we have a very special 0:01:59.680 --> 0:02:02.720 guest with US journalist Penni le Ramirez. 0:02:03.720 --> 0:02:07.640 Benni Leira Meires is an award winning investigative journalist and author. 0:02:07.920 --> 0:02:12.280 She serves as co CEO and executive director of Futuro Media, 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:17.600 leading news and investigations Latino USA and Futuro Investigates. She 0:02:17.680 --> 0:02:20.760 writes a weekly column in Mexico for Reforma, and she 0:02:20.880 --> 0:02:23.959 is also the host of a new podcast called Chess 0:02:23.960 --> 0:02:28.520 Piece the Elian Gonzalez Story. This show that recently launched 0:02:28.560 --> 0:02:33.079 on our network in collaboration with Futuro Studios, launched last 0:02:33.080 --> 0:02:36.800 month and highlights Elian's journey from Gouba and being found 0:02:36.919 --> 0:02:40.239 on the Floridian coast with people who lived it first hand. 0:02:40.639 --> 0:02:42.919 This is an incredible interview. If you don't remember the 0:02:43.000 --> 0:02:46.880 Elian Gonzalez story, this is a really good intro not 0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:49.960 only to what happened to Elian Gonzalez when he was 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:52.280 just a little boy at five years old, but it's 0:02:52.360 --> 0:02:55.840 a conversation about family separation, about immigration, about the Cuban 0:02:55.880 --> 0:02:58.640 American experience, and about the election season. 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:02.519 Yeah, let's do it. Well, thank you for joining us again. 0:03:03.520 --> 0:03:06.520 Let's get started by if you can just introduce yourself, 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:09.280 tell us who you are and a little bit about yourself. 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:12.560 Well, my name is Penny Letter Medz and the reason 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:15.360 why I have this strange name is because I'm Cuban 0:03:16.240 --> 0:03:20.120 and my parents fell in love with this some by 0:03:20.200 --> 0:03:24.040 the Beatles called Penny Lane, so they made a tropical 0:03:24.120 --> 0:03:28.160 version of it. So you will spell it as you 0:03:28.200 --> 0:03:30.840 will spell. You pronounce it in Spanish, So Penny Lay 0:03:31.440 --> 0:03:36.240 and I work as an im an investigative reporter, and 0:03:36.280 --> 0:03:39.440 I have been working mostly on investigative reporting all my career, 0:03:39.960 --> 0:03:44.000 but now I do other things. I'm the head of 0:03:44.080 --> 0:03:47.760 News and Investigations at Futuro Media and I'm also the 0:03:47.880 --> 0:03:49.560 co CEO and executive director. 0:03:50.000 --> 0:03:54.440 Amazing. We are so grateful that you can join us today, 0:03:54.480 --> 0:03:56.000 and we want to talk to you about the new 0:03:56.040 --> 0:03:59.840 podcast that you made with Studios and my Coltura podcast. 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:02.800 Before that, we want to ask you about your background 0:04:03.040 --> 0:04:05.960 and what led you to journalism. How did you get 0:04:06.000 --> 0:04:06.480 your start? 0:04:06.680 --> 0:04:09.160 Well, I don't think I always knew I wanted to 0:04:09.160 --> 0:04:11.320 be a journalist, but I always knew I wanted to 0:04:11.360 --> 0:04:17.520 do like fight against injiustices in general. So when I 0:04:17.640 --> 0:04:20.400 left Cuba when I was fourteen years old, I went 0:04:20.440 --> 0:04:23.359 to Mexico and then to the United States. So I 0:04:23.360 --> 0:04:26.679 have been living mostly between Mexico and the US since 0:04:26.720 --> 0:04:30.600 two those and one. I always have this desire to, 0:04:31.240 --> 0:04:35.240 you know, investigate what's going on in the world. I 0:04:35.320 --> 0:04:39.400 have two kids and a third one coming in about 0:04:39.400 --> 0:04:42.360 a month and a half. I'm very pregnant these days. 0:04:43.120 --> 0:04:48.760 I'm very happy about it, but also exhausted, and I 0:04:48.800 --> 0:04:52.799 have been working a lot since the last two years, 0:04:52.800 --> 0:04:55.720 and I have been working for Futuro, and before that 0:04:56.320 --> 0:05:00.160 I moved to New York to complete my masters at 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:04.960 Cumbia University. So I have been enjoying the life in 0:05:05.040 --> 0:05:09.400 New York so much. But I also have a lot 0:05:09.440 --> 0:05:13.560 of roots in Miami because as a good Cuban family. 0:05:13.720 --> 0:05:17.520 These days, I have more relatives in Miami than in Cuba, 0:05:17.600 --> 0:05:20.000 which is something that we discuss a lot in the podcast. 0:05:20.880 --> 0:05:24.000 And as most of my career has been as an 0:05:24.040 --> 0:05:29.280 investigative reporter, I'm really not used to talk about myself 0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:33.720 that much because I'm more used to investigate like corrupt 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:37.440 politicians or people hiding their money. I was part of 0:05:37.520 --> 0:05:40.560 the investigation of the Panama Papers, for example, So I 0:05:40.600 --> 0:05:46.200 feel way more comfortable interviewing an artcolord than talking about myself. 0:05:46.760 --> 0:05:49.040 And this is why also this project has been a 0:05:49.279 --> 0:05:53.320 huge challenging for me, not just because I'm pretty emotional 0:05:53.360 --> 0:05:56.159 these days because I'm pregnant, but also because it's a 0:05:56.200 --> 0:05:59.760 pretty emotional issue to talk about myself, to talk about 0:05:59.760 --> 0:06:03.560 my Cuban roots, and also talk about something that I 0:06:03.680 --> 0:06:08.400 never discussed it publicly before, which is family separation impacting 0:06:08.440 --> 0:06:10.520 my family on my life. 0:06:10.640 --> 0:06:13.880 Yeah, I love that you mentioned the challenge of immersing 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:17.040 yourself in the story, because you're fully immersed in this 0:06:17.120 --> 0:06:21.360 new podcast chess piece, the Elian Gonzalez story. So can 0:06:21.400 --> 0:06:26.120 you tell us more about your approach with merging this 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:30.440 journalism right this very beautiful narrative piece that's highly researched, 0:06:30.680 --> 0:06:34.000 highly produced, but also immersing yourself in the story and 0:06:34.040 --> 0:06:34.760 your own narrative. 0:06:35.000 --> 0:06:38.800 Yes, I think something that I think is like part 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:41.040 of the brand of the house in put to the studios, 0:06:41.120 --> 0:06:44.640 is that we do a lot of journalism with heart, 0:06:45.000 --> 0:06:47.880 as or funder Marino also likes to say a lot. 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:51.640 And I don't conceive one of our podcasts being just 0:06:51.760 --> 0:06:57.080 telling this straight story, just the fact, without really understanding 0:06:57.240 --> 0:07:00.200 why it matters, you know, how it is impacting our 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:04.960 communities and the communities that we report on. So Elean Gonzalez, 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:10.920 also known as El Valcerito, is a boy that is 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:14.960 a little younger than me, like five years younger than me, 0:07:15.200 --> 0:07:18.360 but he was big news at the end of the nineties. 0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:20.840 A lot of people in the US when you mentioned 0:07:20.840 --> 0:07:24.080 Elian Gonzales, they remember some of the case. They remember 0:07:24.160 --> 0:07:27.000 a specific picture that was so important in the case, 0:07:28.280 --> 0:07:31.160 but we haven't talked about him in a while. But 0:07:31.280 --> 0:07:35.400 this year, this November, we're turning twenty five years of 0:07:35.400 --> 0:07:38.440 that case, and that case in that moment, I know 0:07:38.520 --> 0:07:41.560 that we're all talking these days about the Menandez brothers 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:45.679 and Okay Simpson. But added to that combo, the Lean 0:07:45.840 --> 0:07:50.160 case was one of this headlines news story that was 0:07:50.200 --> 0:07:53.760 twenty four seven all over the news in the late nineties. 0:07:53.920 --> 0:07:57.240 So the case started Thanksgiving of nineteen ninety nine, but 0:07:57.520 --> 0:08:01.040 for months it was like twenty four seven in the 0:08:01.120 --> 0:08:04.000 news cycle, and we were coming in the US from 0:08:04.040 --> 0:08:08.120 these two big other cases that were like moving the 0:08:08.200 --> 0:08:11.520 media a lot. So what we're doing right now is 0:08:11.560 --> 0:08:14.760 we're retelling the case. We're doing deep research. We have 0:08:14.880 --> 0:08:17.880 been investigating a lot. We have been interviewing people who 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:22.160 were like part of the case directly and indirectly. But 0:08:22.200 --> 0:08:26.440 we're also taking the case beyond the particular story of 0:08:26.480 --> 0:08:30.120 Elian Gonzalez, and we have been telling it in a 0:08:30.160 --> 0:08:34.240 way that explains why family separation is social an issue 0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:38.400 for Cubans, as you know, you know, as being part 0:08:38.400 --> 0:08:42.000 of an immigrant community is family separation is always an issue, 0:08:42.240 --> 0:08:45.079 regardless if your Cuban or not Cuban, but we Cube 0:08:45.160 --> 0:08:49.760 us specifically because there is so much neopolitics into what 0:08:50.040 --> 0:08:54.080 happens with our lives. Family separation is a big issue, 0:08:54.600 --> 0:08:58.120 so it was kind of natural to emvent my story 0:08:58.160 --> 0:09:01.600 on it because when we started the project, I remember 0:09:01.679 --> 0:09:05.160 one of the conversations with our executive producers, Marlon Bishop 0:09:05.280 --> 0:09:09.280 and Maria Garcia, and I told them, yeah, actually, I 0:09:09.360 --> 0:09:12.439 was also separated from my father and we spent eight 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:16.560 years separated. So my father left Cuba in nineteen ninety eight, 0:09:16.960 --> 0:09:20.040 a year before a Lean case, the Lians case started, 0:09:20.600 --> 0:09:26.200 and he was living in Miami while this case was happening, 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:29.480 and I was living in Cuba. And the funny thing, 0:09:30.040 --> 0:09:33.559 not that funny, is that while the Cuban government was 0:09:33.600 --> 0:09:37.839 fighting so hard to reunite Alian Gonzalez with his father 0:09:38.440 --> 0:09:42.360 in Cuba, the same government, the same Cuban government, was 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:45.760 preventing my father to be reunited with me and my brother. 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:51.239 So we thought that, you know, telling my case, interviewing 0:09:51.280 --> 0:09:53.360 my father for the first time in my life, which 0:09:53.480 --> 0:09:57.800 was again more difficult than interviewing the old clerks. It's 0:09:57.920 --> 0:10:04.000 been given the series another toush, another level of proximity 0:10:04.080 --> 0:10:07.319 with people who well to also relate to this final 0:10:07.400 --> 0:10:10.600 separation and this Cuban experience, and in this I will 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:13.880 say this immigrant experience in general. So the podcast is 0:10:14.280 --> 0:10:16.839 a story of aliens, the story of what happened and 0:10:16.960 --> 0:10:21.280 why it had such a big impact in the US 0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:23.960 back in the day, but also what happened to me, 0:10:24.160 --> 0:10:27.559 what happened with my father, my brother, and why family 0:10:27.679 --> 0:10:31.880 separation is social an issue among Cubans that it was 0:10:31.920 --> 0:10:35.120 in nineteen ninety nine and that is stilled today, even 0:10:35.200 --> 0:10:36.360 twenty five years later. 0:10:36.760 --> 0:10:38.240 Don't go anywhere, locomotives. 0:10:38.320 --> 0:10:47.200 We'll be right back, and we're back with more of 0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:52.240 our episode. It's incredible, and I'm wondering your reflections twenty 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:55.800 five years later. I remember being a child and seeing 0:10:56.240 --> 0:10:58.960 all of the commotion on the news, like the morning news, 0:10:59.080 --> 0:11:04.000 especially before school, And I wonder what you think now 0:11:04.120 --> 0:11:07.760 about why it was such a big deal. Was it 0:11:07.800 --> 0:11:09.880 because it was Cuba, Was it because he was a 0:11:09.880 --> 0:11:12.560 little boy? Was it because of the politics at the time. 0:11:13.040 --> 0:11:16.000 And do you think that that story We're talking a 0:11:16.000 --> 0:11:20.360 lot more these days about unaccompanied minors, right, and so 0:11:20.360 --> 0:11:23.120 do you think that Elian Gonzalees story today would have 0:11:23.160 --> 0:11:27.600 that same effect and reach and focus or was it 0:11:27.679 --> 0:11:29.280 something of the time period. 0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:32.640 I think, first, I think it's an amazing question, and 0:11:32.720 --> 0:11:36.959 I also recall the case, like you know, from those days. 0:11:37.000 --> 0:11:41.000 I was a pre teen when the case started, and 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:46.199 I think we are now talking way more about family separation, 0:11:46.400 --> 0:11:50.679 about on a company child, et cetera. But something I 0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:53.880 have been thinking is like, even now the case will 0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:58.640 be even more viral because one thing that one of 0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:01.480 the people I interviewed, and I think it's it's kind 0:12:01.520 --> 0:12:04.200 of key to understand the issue is like, you know, 0:12:04.280 --> 0:12:09.120 geopolitics are complicated, but it's pretty easy to explain the case. 0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:12.360 In this case was a child who came to the 0:12:12.440 --> 0:12:15.360 United States with her his mother. I don't want to 0:12:15.360 --> 0:12:17.920 spoiler a lot of it for those who doesn't know 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:21.559 the story, but he ends up without his mother in 0:12:21.600 --> 0:12:24.760 Miami and the father in Cuba is claiming that he 0:12:24.800 --> 0:12:28.200 wants him back. So it's pretty straightforward. Should the boy 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:31.319 remain in the United States with his relatives in Miami, 0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:33.960 or the boy should go back to Cuba to be 0:12:34.040 --> 0:12:36.400 with his father. So one of the people we interview 0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:39.960 said is pretty straightforward and it's pretty easy to have 0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:42.760 an opinion. Should the boy stay in the United States 0:12:43.280 --> 0:12:46.960 in freedom with the relatives, you know, enjoy all the 0:12:47.000 --> 0:12:51.640 benefits of living in the US, getting asylum, etc. Or 0:12:52.800 --> 0:12:54.720 the boy should go back to Cuba to be with 0:12:54.800 --> 0:12:57.760 his father. Even knowing all the problems that Cuba had 0:12:57.840 --> 0:13:00.720 back in the day and has today, imagine that today 0:13:01.240 --> 0:13:09.559 in TikTok days, with everybody posting videos having opinions about it. 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:14.600 It was such a passionate issue for Cubans. Especially if 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:17.240 you see the footage from those days, you will see 0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:20.400 that the front of the house of the family of 0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:24.240 Lian Gonzalez in Miami was packed with people. Of course 0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:26.800 a lot of media there from all over the world. 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:29.200 We put in about the case every day, but also 0:13:29.280 --> 0:13:32.199 like random people that were just going there to see 0:13:32.200 --> 0:13:35.480 the boy. Some of the people we interview said that 0:13:35.880 --> 0:13:37.920 he was like the pope, you know, he was coming 0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:40.800 out of the house and everybody was like trying to 0:13:40.840 --> 0:13:45.240 see him, try to touch him. So imagine Dad and 0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:50.920 the craziness of today's viral posts or vital stories. So 0:13:50.960 --> 0:13:54.040 I think that something that remains after twenty five years 0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:58.040 is that the geopolitics of relationships between Cuba and the 0:13:58.160 --> 0:14:01.080 US are still very complicated. You have seen in the 0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:05.000 news what's been happening in Cuba in recent days. Situation 0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:08.559 in Cuba's is still pretty bad. It's getting worse these days, 0:14:08.600 --> 0:14:13.800 with no electricity, no food, no medicines, people protesting. But 0:14:14.120 --> 0:14:16.280 at the core of it, there is still a lot 0:14:16.280 --> 0:14:18.160 of famal separation. There is still a lot a lot 0:14:18.200 --> 0:14:20.960 of people who are able to leave Cuba, but only 0:14:21.040 --> 0:14:22.920 part of the family is leave in Cuba, the other 0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:26.040 parties remaining in Cuba. So I think it's still a 0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:29.400 pretty controversial issue, and that's partly why we wanted to 0:14:29.440 --> 0:14:32.560 revisit the case after twenty five years, because we don't 0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:35.200 think it's just a story from the past. We think 0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:38.600 it's a story that is pretty current in terms of 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:43.400 what is happening with panel separation, with Cuba US relationships, 0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:46.120 and also with the amount of kids coming to the 0:14:46.200 --> 0:14:48.760 United States even today with out their parents. 0:14:49.240 --> 0:14:54.680 So you mentioned the similarities between then and now and 0:14:54.840 --> 0:14:59.600 family separation and asylum seeking. What similarities do you see 0:14:59.640 --> 0:15:04.400 between Elian's experience and his story reflected in the current 0:15:04.800 --> 0:15:09.400 issues with immigration, especially as we see elections coming up 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:12.800 and immigration continues to be, like the quote hot topic, 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:16.520 it continues to be the factor in a lot of 0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:20.920 public debate and private conversations as well. So how do 0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:24.800 you see those related, especially as we approach election season. 0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:27.680 Well, that's another reason why we think it is relevant 0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:31.560 to tell this story today, which is because immigration is 0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:35.640 a top issue for US voters today. We have seen 0:15:35.680 --> 0:15:40.040 that in every pole, what's happening with the border, what's 0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:45.360 happening with immigration in generalistic still a top issue for voters. 0:15:45.600 --> 0:15:48.800 And I think something that is important to understand is 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:54.520 that this case had an impact especially among Cubans living 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:58.840 in Miami, among those borders of South Florida. That's the 0:15:58.960 --> 0:16:04.160 remain until today. So if you think that today we 0:16:04.320 --> 0:16:09.680 have a lot of polarizing issues regarding election, regarding this 0:16:09.880 --> 0:16:13.640 proposal for example, from the Trunk campaign about master deportations, 0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:18.680 this proposal from the Harrist campaign regarding what are the 0:16:18.840 --> 0:16:22.040 kinds of things that they should be doing too, as 0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:27.520 she has been saying, correct this through this bill, et cetera. 0:16:28.000 --> 0:16:31.440 There is still a lot to be work on regarding 0:16:31.480 --> 0:16:35.520 what's happening with immigration. The border is still a big issue, 0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:39.640 a big source of misinformation and disinformation we have been 0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:44.080 also reputting in the media. So bringing back to a 0:16:44.200 --> 0:16:48.200 case that is so sensitive regarding what should be done 0:16:48.800 --> 0:16:53.760 to fix a system that is not working. It was 0:16:53.840 --> 0:16:56.680 not working back then and it's not working today. And 0:16:56.720 --> 0:16:59.920 what is beautiful about this podcast is that we do 0:17:00.240 --> 0:17:04.360 from a very personal perspective. So we have data, and 0:17:04.400 --> 0:17:08.080 we have you know, the narrative of what happened, and 0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:13.159 we have a lot of explanation about the context, but 0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:16.960 we also have a very human stories, not just my 0:17:17.080 --> 0:17:19.560 own story and the story of my separation with my 0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:24.360 dad from my dad, but other stories of panel separations. 0:17:24.440 --> 0:17:27.320 What I think is key about telling these kind of 0:17:27.359 --> 0:17:31.960 stories today is because beyond the political noise, we need 0:17:32.000 --> 0:17:37.159 to remind ourselves that every immigrant story is a story 0:17:37.200 --> 0:17:41.239 about a human being, and we need to remain I 0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:45.440 think as journalists, I think there is a big responsibility 0:17:45.560 --> 0:17:50.400 on remaining very human in our covers and I think 0:17:50.440 --> 0:17:53.480 what the story does. The feedback that we have been 0:17:53.480 --> 0:17:57.439 receiving from listeners is listeners is amazing. A lot of 0:17:57.440 --> 0:18:00.320 the people saying that they cannot stop crying and when 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:04.600 they listen to the podcast, or that they can relate 0:18:04.680 --> 0:18:08.480 to their own lives, their own experiences, their own emotions. 0:18:08.640 --> 0:18:12.879 Is because we need to keep bringing the human experience 0:18:13.000 --> 0:18:16.520 at the center of our covers because it is a 0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:20.040 polarizing issue. For sure, it is a political issue, but 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:25.200 it's an issue immigration that involves real lives or real people, 0:18:25.680 --> 0:18:28.880 and in this case, a pretty sensitive part of it, 0:18:28.920 --> 0:18:33.080 which is what happens with a child separating from his 0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:36.919 father or his mother. What are the consequences of that? 0:18:37.400 --> 0:18:40.159 You know. One of the most difficult parts of the 0:18:40.240 --> 0:18:45.040 podcast for me was when our amazing team of producers 0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:50.760 and editors asked me what it meant to me when 0:18:50.800 --> 0:18:53.159 I needed to write, you know, what happened with my 0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:56.200 life after being separated from my dad for eight years? 0:18:56.359 --> 0:19:00.280 What changed with How I could have been different if 0:19:00.320 --> 0:19:03.320 that experience haven't been part of my life. And I 0:19:03.359 --> 0:19:06.080 think a lot of us can relate to that. You know, 0:19:06.320 --> 0:19:09.560 pause for a sec and think, you know, what my 0:19:09.720 --> 0:19:13.520 immigrant story is telling about myself or about who I 0:19:13.560 --> 0:19:16.240 am or who I am not how I am different 0:19:16.320 --> 0:19:19.639 because of this experience. And I think it is a 0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:22.919 big opportunity and I feel really honored to be able 0:19:23.000 --> 0:19:26.879 to tush on an issue that is pretty political in 0:19:26.920 --> 0:19:32.640 a moment that is pretty polarizing, but explaining it from 0:19:32.680 --> 0:19:36.040 this place that is deeply human and deeply emotional. 0:19:36.760 --> 0:19:38.560 We hope you're enjoying this interview. 0:19:38.960 --> 0:19:48.399 Stay tuned, We're back, and we hope you enjoy the 0:19:48.440 --> 0:19:54.200 rest of the interview. How involved has Elian Gonzalez himself 0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:57.159 been in the telling of his story, especially he's an 0:19:57.160 --> 0:20:01.400 adult now and in the years since the incident, and yeah, 0:20:01.400 --> 0:20:04.000 how involved is he not only in the podcast, but 0:20:04.080 --> 0:20:08.280 I think in general just in this story and understanding 0:20:08.320 --> 0:20:09.359 it all these years later. 0:20:11.240 --> 0:20:15.280 Well, as you said, eleanis an adult now when so 0:20:15.720 --> 0:20:19.240 in the podcast, what we explain is when everything happened. 0:20:19.520 --> 0:20:22.240 When he came to the US, he was five years old, 0:20:22.920 --> 0:20:26.199 and then he turned six while living in Miami, so 0:20:26.280 --> 0:20:29.639 he was everything. Everybody was talking about him, but he 0:20:29.720 --> 0:20:32.760 was not really saying almost anything. He was a kid. 0:20:33.440 --> 0:20:36.919 And then he went back to Cuba and we talked 0:20:36.920 --> 0:20:39.240 about We talked about this in the podcast a lot, 0:20:39.359 --> 0:20:42.520 and he became kind of the favorite kid of the revolution. 0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:45.800 So he was in these public events with Phileel Castro. 0:20:45.960 --> 0:20:50.479 Philel Castro was attending his birthday parties some years so 0:20:50.520 --> 0:20:55.560 he became like a pretty symbolic figure for the Cuban Revolution. 0:20:55.720 --> 0:20:58.840 As of course, Miami Cubans were expecting and fearing when 0:20:58.880 --> 0:21:02.560 he was in my still in Miami. But through the 0:21:02.680 --> 0:21:05.600 years he had been giving some interviews and he had 0:21:05.600 --> 0:21:10.280 been saying saying things that are pretty concerning for Miami Cubans, like, 0:21:10.359 --> 0:21:13.919 for example, he once said that he believed that he 0:21:14.000 --> 0:21:16.400 didn't believe in God, but if he had a God, 0:21:16.440 --> 0:21:19.080 that God would be that God would be filed Castro, 0:21:20.080 --> 0:21:24.159 or saying that he had a true sign since their 0:21:25.760 --> 0:21:29.520 friendship with Fiel Castro saying that he felt like he 0:21:29.640 --> 0:21:32.760 owed the Cuban revolution to stay there and be in 0:21:32.800 --> 0:21:36.679 Cuba because the Cuban people fight for his return. So 0:21:36.760 --> 0:21:39.560 I don't want to overspoil what is in the podcast, 0:21:39.600 --> 0:21:42.679 but we touched a lot on what happened when Elean 0:21:42.840 --> 0:21:47.000 started giving interviews and explaining himself and explaining his reasons, 0:21:47.680 --> 0:21:50.280 his reasons to remain in Cuba even as an adult. 0:21:50.400 --> 0:21:53.600 Can you tell us more about the politics at the 0:21:53.720 --> 0:21:57.919 time and maybe even now, how they look for Cubans 0:21:57.960 --> 0:22:00.600 in Miami and Cubans on the island. 0:22:01.119 --> 0:22:04.320 Yes. I think something else that the podcast does really 0:22:04.320 --> 0:22:10.879 well is that explains what's the difference between being a 0:22:10.960 --> 0:22:14.240 Cuban in Cuba and being a Cuban in Miami. We 0:22:14.320 --> 0:22:18.080 have an entire episode when we detail and explain what 0:22:18.320 --> 0:22:24.159 is that something up, something called the exile ideology, and 0:22:24.280 --> 0:22:30.720 why Miami Cubans are, you know, so reluctant to give anything, 0:22:32.359 --> 0:22:35.359 any credit back to the revolution because they have lost 0:22:35.640 --> 0:22:38.960 a lot. So we explain a lot that the US 0:22:39.080 --> 0:22:42.680 politics around Cuba since the beginning of the revolution have been, 0:22:42.840 --> 0:22:47.360 you know, granting asylum to many Cubans. For US Cubans 0:22:47.720 --> 0:22:52.480 is relatively easy to get, you know, asylum, a green card, 0:22:52.600 --> 0:22:56.560 and citizenship in the United States, unlike many other immigrants 0:22:56.600 --> 0:23:00.280 from many other countries. So that put us in a place, 0:23:01.119 --> 0:23:06.199 in a privileged place with regards of other immigrants. But 0:23:06.280 --> 0:23:10.080 at the same time, the fact that many Cubans came 0:23:10.119 --> 0:23:13.160 to the United States with the idea that they are 0:23:13.440 --> 0:23:16.200 just going to be here for a couple of months 0:23:16.640 --> 0:23:19.359 or maybe just a short period of time, because they 0:23:19.359 --> 0:23:22.159 are not immigrants to our exiles and they are gonna 0:23:22.160 --> 0:23:26.600 go back. We have a beautiful episode that is anchored 0:23:26.640 --> 0:23:30.040 by our associate producer Tasha Sandoval, and she speaks with 0:23:30.160 --> 0:23:33.040 her grandmother who came to the United States in the 0:23:33.080 --> 0:23:36.399 early sixties, and she even says that she thought it 0:23:36.480 --> 0:23:38.359 was going to be for a couple of months and 0:23:38.440 --> 0:23:44.600 she hasn't never returned. So the difference between immigration when 0:23:44.640 --> 0:23:47.720 you're a Cuban versus in another country is that you 0:23:47.840 --> 0:23:51.040 know you're not going back. If you're Mexican, for example, 0:23:51.040 --> 0:23:53.440 I have spent many years of my life in Mexico. 0:23:53.920 --> 0:23:56.560 If you're a Mexican immigrant going to the United States, 0:23:57.240 --> 0:24:01.320 you have this hope of sending money, then your casitaing 0:24:01.440 --> 0:24:04.720 back in your town, retiring back in your town, going 0:24:04.800 --> 0:24:07.560 back for the holidays. So you think that you have 0:24:07.640 --> 0:24:10.439 a rut back. Sometimes you don't do it, but you 0:24:10.680 --> 0:24:14.120 have this feeling of belonging and I can go back 0:24:14.119 --> 0:24:17.760 to my land, I can live in my homeland, I 0:24:17.800 --> 0:24:20.480 can build my house there. But in Cuba it's a 0:24:20.520 --> 0:24:23.840 pretty definitive decision. So if you leave Cuba, you leave 0:24:24.640 --> 0:24:28.240 and there is no coming back. And on the other hand, 0:24:28.960 --> 0:24:32.720 but the Cubans that remain in Cuba, there's been so 0:24:32.880 --> 0:24:37.239 much propaganda against the Cuban exiles. So the fact that 0:24:37.359 --> 0:24:41.680 even today the Cuban government calls guzanos to those Cubans 0:24:41.680 --> 0:24:46.080 in Miami. So worms so use these terms to relate 0:24:46.320 --> 0:24:49.880 and to define other people who are your same nationalities. 0:24:50.000 --> 0:24:53.000 Sometimes there are even your relatives. So we get a 0:24:53.080 --> 0:24:55.879