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Speaker 1: The Michael Barry Show.

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Speaker 2: Those guys that risk their life out on that, you know,

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Speaker 2: crab fishing vessels that you do all the voiceovers for,

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Speaker 2: and you did dirty jobs out on a lot of boats,

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Speaker 2: and you were you know, in the bowels of those

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Speaker 2: fishing vessels and cleaning out stringy guts and you know

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Speaker 2: all that kind of stuff. But if you had never

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Speaker 2: gotten on that, you would have been safer.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 3: So where does this stop?

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Speaker 1: Well, it stops. I think we talked about this once before.

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Speaker 1: But it stops when people get bored of being terrorized. Okay,

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Speaker 1: it stops. We talked about it in London during the blitz.

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Speaker 1: You know, when those bombs started falling, the people went

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Speaker 1: to ground and they stayed underground for a week, week

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Speaker 1: and a half. After two weeks they came out. Bombs

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Speaker 1: are still falling, but they came out three weeks. The

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Speaker 1: school's open, the shop's open. Bombs are still falling. They

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Speaker 1: figured out a way to live in a world where

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Speaker 1: bombs were falling. C. S. Lewis writes very famously in

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Speaker 1: nineteen forty eight, how to Live in an Atomic Age.

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Speaker 1: His explanation works today too. You know, it took people

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Speaker 1: a while to get used to the fact that a

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Speaker 1: bunch of countries had the bomb horrifying times. But given

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Speaker 1: enough time and given a rudimentary understanding of mutually assured destruction,

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Speaker 1: we all took a deep breath and said, Okay, well,

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Speaker 1: life goes on, and now we're going to function in

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Speaker 1: this world.

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Speaker 2: Let's start kind of putting a bow tie on this conversation.

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Speaker 2: In one sense, we have really discussed things that I

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Speaker 2: think are really culminating in the fact that you know,

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Speaker 2: you got an opportunity to live with two generations of tradesmen.

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Speaker 2: Your grandfather, your father. Your father ran a construction company

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Speaker 2: that I'm recalling.

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Speaker 1: My dad actually taught taught school.

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Speaker 2: Okay, who ran the who ran the bistruction.

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Speaker 1: My grandfather had an electrical contracting company and could do

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Speaker 1: any trade.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So but they live next door, right, That's okay,

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Speaker 2: That's what That's where I got it. So basically, I read.

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Speaker 1: Your mom's book. By the way you read mine.

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Speaker 2: I read your mom's.

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Speaker 1: This is devastated.

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Speaker 2: You haven't sent me one. Your mom sent me one.

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Speaker 1: I actually dedicated to It's a pop up. You're gonna

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Speaker 1: love it.

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Speaker 3: Okay, perfect, You know you got to see what would

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Speaker 3: have been your grandfather's values, your.

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Speaker 2: Grandfather's you know, life impacted you. He was granddad next door.

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Speaker 2: Somewhere along the line. We live in a day and

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Speaker 2: age that is different. I want you to define that

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Speaker 2: difference and try to tell me what in the world

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Speaker 2: what flip got what switch got flipped somewhere along the

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Speaker 2: line that turned everything upside down. But before that, this

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Speaker 2: is a workshop. This is, you know, an analogy of

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Speaker 2: kind of modern tools. We've got some older tools that

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Speaker 2: I found in Dallas and had the guys, you know,

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Speaker 2: get them sand blasted, and then we kind of rubbed

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Speaker 2: this oil stuff into them, and you know, they work again,

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Speaker 2: and you know, you know, we're we're sitting in kind

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Speaker 2: of a cathedral to work. This is sensuating our conversation

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Speaker 2: in some way. Okay, that was certainly the attempt. Okay,

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Speaker 2: well you succeeded, Okay, perfect, But it is a cathedral.

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Speaker 2: And I'm not sure that I would have ever had

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Speaker 2: the opportunity to see you do a number one rated

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Speaker 2: TV show for almost a decade on Discovery Channel, Dirty Jobs,

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Speaker 2: if it hadn't been for your voice. So your pathway

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Speaker 2: to television started on stage because of a baritone capability

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Speaker 2: that you have. You're kind of in a cathedral, and

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Speaker 2: does any particular song come to mind that would resonate

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Speaker 2: off the cathedral? Could you somewhat dedicate this cathedral and

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Speaker 2: let it be a homage to really what got you

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Speaker 2: here in the first place?

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Speaker 1: Some people saying man is made out of mud. A

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Speaker 1: poor man's made out of muscling blood, muscling blood and

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Speaker 1: skin and bone of mine that's week and the back

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Speaker 1: that's strong. You load sixteen tons, what do you get

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Speaker 1: another day, older and deeper in debt? Well, Saint Peter,

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Speaker 1: don't you call me because I can't go. I owe

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Speaker 1: my soul to the company stole. Hold on, see what

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Speaker 1: I did there? Yeah, Saint Peter, which I know you

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Speaker 1: love ye, debt which I know you hate, work, which

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Speaker 1: I know you love, song, which I know your door.

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Speaker 1: A lot of four letter words going in there that

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Speaker 1: are family friendly, song, work and love.

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Speaker 2: And a little piece of the of the art. What

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Speaker 2: do you call them? With the little oratories or oh

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Speaker 2: that's the right word, oratory, aria, aria, with the touch

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Speaker 2: a touch, yeah, a little just a little piece of

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Speaker 2: the Italian thing, just for the sophisticated folk in the audience.

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Speaker 1: You have sophisticated folks, and I think, so, hey, you

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Speaker 1: just said something. You mind if I take a quick

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Speaker 1: digression whatever it was you were trying to say, What

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Speaker 1: you said instead was art. Now what happens when you

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Speaker 1: take the art out of a thing, right, We took

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Speaker 1: the arts out of high school, the humanities. And there

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Speaker 1: was a great hue and cry right when we cut

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Speaker 1: music programs and things like that, And that affected me

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Speaker 1: and I was one of the ones complaining about it.

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Speaker 1: But before shop class was shop class, it was called votech,

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Speaker 1: and before vocational technology was called votech, it was called

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Speaker 1: the vocational Arts. That's what you've done here. You've taken

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Speaker 1: the talismans of work and you've made an artistic expression

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Speaker 1: of them. We didn't just take shop class out of

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Speaker 1: high school one day because we thought we ran out

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Speaker 1: of money. We first took the art out of the

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Speaker 1: vocational arts, and then we knocked it down to votech

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Speaker 1: and then we changed votech into shop and then we

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Speaker 1: walked it behind the barn and shot it. That's how

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Speaker 1: we got shop class on high school. We started with

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Speaker 1: a war not on work, but on craftsmanship and on art.

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Speaker 1: So anytime you see somebody challenging the artistry of this,

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Speaker 1: you know, the scales of I mean, there's art in

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Speaker 1: every single thing in here. You either see it or

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Speaker 1: you don't. There's risk in every single activity.

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Speaker 2: You ever will perform in here.

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Speaker 1: You either see it or you don't. And so your

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Speaker 1: earlier question had to do with what has changed since

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Speaker 1: my pop built the church I grew up in. By

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Speaker 1: the way, what's changed is the chronology of things we value.

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Speaker 1: Work has fallen far far down the list. Art has

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Speaker 1: fallen down the list. Safety has gone to the top,

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Speaker 1: comfort has gone to the top. And the road we

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Speaker 1: take in pursuit of what we'll call job satisfaction, right,

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Speaker 1: that's changed. That's what's changed. This is a great I

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Speaker 1: don't know if we don't know how much time we

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Speaker 1: have left, but unpacket all right, let me try and

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Speaker 1: land the plane like this. There was a time when

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Speaker 1: people who were happy in their work didn't start their

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Speaker 1: quest for happiness by trying to identify the proximate cause

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Speaker 1: of their bliss. In other words, what we tell kids

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Speaker 1: today is, if you want to be happy in your work,

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Speaker 1: the first thing you do is you sit down and

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Speaker 1: you think about what you want to do, and then

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Speaker 1: once you settle on it, you embark upon a grand

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Speaker 1: plan of action. Now many times that plan involves borrowing

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Speaker 1: money that you don't have, and then you go to

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Speaker 1: school in order to get all the necessary credentialing that'll

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Speaker 1: get you to the next step, and on and on

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Speaker 1: you go. And now suddenly you're twenty seven years old

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Speaker 1: and you're on your path to get the job that

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Speaker 1: will make you happy. But you're just running into roadblock

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Speaker 1: after roadblock after roadblock, and now you've got one hundred

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Speaker 1: and twenty thousand dollars in debt, and as it turns out, no,

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Speaker 1: you're not going to be a political scientist with a

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Speaker 1: major in mid Eastern studies. As it turns out, now

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Speaker 1: you're serving coffee and a Starbucks, and not that there's

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Speaker 1: anything wrong with that, but that's not what you signed

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Speaker 1: on for. And you're living in your mom's basement again,

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Speaker 1: and you're not happy, right, You're not happy because you

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Speaker 1: started with this very specific goal. The people on Dirty Jobs,

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Speaker 1: Matt buy and Large, I'm generalizing Buy and Large. None

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Speaker 1: of them are doing the thing that they identified in

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Speaker 1: their youth as their wish fulfillment. These are people who

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Speaker 1: looked around and said, where's everybody going? I'll go the

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Speaker 1: other way. Where's the opportunity septic tank cleaner in Wisconsin?

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Speaker 1: Less Swanson was his name, terrific guy Leswonson from Wisconsin.

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Speaker 1: He was a guidance counselor for like twenty years, a psychiatrist,

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Speaker 1: a psychologist. He quit it all, started a septic tank business,

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Speaker 1: not because he wanted to do that, but because that's

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Speaker 1: what needed to be done. He figured out how to

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Speaker 1: get good at it, and then he figured out how

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Speaker 1: to love it. That's what's changed. We've told a whole

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Speaker 1: generation of kids that your happiness depends on what you do,

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Speaker 1: not who you are, and we've given them a roadmap

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Speaker 1: that takes them right off a cliff. And we've encouraged them,

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Speaker 1: for their trouble, to borrow more money than they'll ever

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Speaker 1: be able to pay back, money by the way that

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Speaker 1: we can't even afford to lend them, to train them

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Speaker 1: for jobs that don't exist anymore. Everything is backwards, everything

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Speaker 1: is disconnected.

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Speaker 2: You touched on something just now that hit a nerve

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Speaker 2: with me. It's an identity issue that you weren't who

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Speaker 2: you are, you are what your title says, you are

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Speaker 2: and how do you identify what is your identity based in?

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Speaker 1: Well? Look, that was the great lesson of my life

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Speaker 1: because I had enough success up until I was forty

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Speaker 1: two to create a level of hubris in my own

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Speaker 1: work right as a guy who impersonated a host. I

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Speaker 1: got enough positive feedback in twenty years in TV to

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Speaker 1: feel very confident that I was on the right track

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Speaker 1: as a host.

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Speaker 2: Were you kind of a jerk back then?

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Speaker 1: You know? Yeah? I mean I was still insanely likable,

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Speaker 1: as you know, right, of course, I was kind of

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Speaker 1: a jerk.

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Speaker 3: I was.

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Speaker 1: I was the kind of jerk you run into who

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Speaker 1: was quietly arrogant. You know, all my friends in my

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Speaker 1: industry had taken a traditional road. They had gone to

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Speaker 1: the America Academy of Dramatic Arts, they'd moved to La right,

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Speaker 1: and they all by the time I was forty, you know,

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Speaker 1: they all had success, but they were all struggling. I

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Speaker 1: was doing pretty good, not great, but good, and I

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Speaker 1: felt very confident and very kind of proud that I

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Speaker 1: had figured out a business model that worked for me.

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Speaker 1: But what I was doing didn't have any real inherent

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Speaker 1: meaning for me. It was just a way to pay

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Speaker 1: the bills and make sure I had four or five

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Speaker 1: months off a year to go see the world and

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Speaker 1: have a fun time. Dirty Jobs straightened me out. Dirty

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Speaker 1: Jobs was the show that forced me to be humble

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Speaker 1: in a way that I would have never imagined being

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Speaker 1: on camera, and to assume a new role, not the

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Speaker 1: role of a host or an expert, but the role

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Speaker 1: of an apprentice and an avatar. Right, And so yeah,

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Speaker 1: for me, when I accepted that new role, I had

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Speaker 1: a new business. And when that show blew up, then

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Speaker 1: other like minded shows made sense to pursue, and then

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Speaker 1: a foundation emerged. And then I got to see it

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Speaker 1: at the grown up table, and I got a chance

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Speaker 1: to sit here with people like you where we can

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Speaker 1: actually talk about topics that I believe can unite the country. Well,

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Speaker 1: we're divided in just about every possible way on every

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Speaker 1: possible thing, but work shouldn't be one of those things,

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Speaker 1: you know, And I'm afraid it has become a source

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Speaker 1: of division. But it can't be. We can't let we

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Speaker 1: can't let the country have such divergent views on the

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Speaker 1: definition of a good job or the role of risk

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Speaker 1: in life. You know, And look, if there's a silver

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Speaker 1: lining and there is There are several silver linings in coronavirus,

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Speaker 1: but one of them is this clarifying process that's going

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Speaker 1: to force us to think differently about these big epic

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Speaker 1: thematic ideas. And you can't talk about the definition of

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Speaker 1: a good job without the definition of a worthwhile education.

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Speaker 1: And when you see kids learning from home, when you

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Speaker 1: see college students we're currently enrolled in Harvard sitting home

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Speaker 1: for another semester for which they are not going to

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Speaker 1: be refunded, but going through the curriculum on nothing but

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Speaker 1: a screen, higher education is going to have to think

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Speaker 1: differently about the value proposition. If your life the Michael

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Speaker 1: Berry Show in podcast, please tell one friend and if

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Speaker 1: you're so inclined, write a nice review of our podcast. Comments, suggestions, questions,

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Speaker 1: and interest in being a corporate sponsor and partner can

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Speaker 1: be communicated directly to the show at our email address,

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Speaker 1: Michael at Michael Berryshow dot com, or simply by clicking

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Speaker 1: on our website Michael Berryshow dot com. The Michael Berry

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Speaker 1: Show and podcast is produced by Ramon Roeblis, The King

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Speaker 1: of Ding. Executive producer is Chad Knakanishi. Jim Mudd is

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Speaker 1: the creative director. Voices Jingles, Tomfoolery and Shenanigans are provided

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Speaker 1: by Chance McLain. Director of Research is Sandy Peterson. Emily

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Speaker 1: Bull is our assistant listener and superfan. Contributions are appreciated

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Speaker 1: and often incorporated into our production. Where possible, we give credit,

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Speaker 1: where not, we take all the credit for ourselves. God

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Speaker 1: bless the memory of Rush Limbaugh. Long live Elvis, be

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Speaker 1: a simple man like Leonard Skinnard told you, and God

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Speaker 1: bless America. Finally, if you know a veteran suffering from PTSD,

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Speaker 1: call Camp Hope at eight seven seven seven one seven

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Speaker 1: PTSD and a combat veteran will answer the phone to

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Speaker 1: provide free counseling