Speaker 1: Hey, guys, welcome to another episode of Eating While Broke.
Speaker 1: I'm your host, Colleen Witt, and today we have very
Speaker 1: special guests Charlemagne the God in the building.
Speaker 2: Y'all, Queen Wit, what's happening?
Speaker 3: What's going on? How do you feel?
Speaker 1: Charlemagne the God also known as hip Hop's Howard Starn really,
Speaker 1: best selling author of books Black Privilege, Shook One, and
Speaker 1: most recently, Get Honest or Die Lion Why small Talk Sucks.
Speaker 1: In addition to all these accolades, you have invested close
Speaker 1: to thirty years in the radio broadcasting industry. You're the
Speaker 1: founder of the Black Effect podcast network.
Speaker 3: Where you can listen to Eating whild Broke, where.
Speaker 1: You can which you yourself is literally the only reason
Speaker 1: why we're able to do this interview. In addition to
Speaker 1: all that, you are the creative of Black Privileged Publishing.
Speaker 1: I read this quote. I was hanging out at my
Speaker 1: dad's apartment. He had this quote on the wall and
Speaker 1: I took it. And the whole irony in this quote
Speaker 1: is that he actually took it from me. But I
Speaker 1: read this quote and I thought of you. Excellence is
Speaker 1: never an accident. It is always a result of high
Speaker 1: intention sincere effort, intelligent direction, skillful execution, and the vision
Speaker 1: to see obstacles as opportunities. Now I thought of you
Speaker 1: because just reading all your books, I was like, personally
Speaker 1: and professionally, it seems like that has been your journey. Absolutely, absolutely,
Speaker 1: So I gotta ask, what is the broke dish that
Speaker 1: you would have had us eating in my studio?
Speaker 3: If I really don't know.
Speaker 2: I was racking my brain when they kept telling me,
Speaker 2: and I watched the show and I'm like, they kept
Speaker 2: you know, you got to have a broke dish, and
Speaker 2: I'm like, I didn't really have a broke dish coming up.
Speaker 2: And the reason I say that is because even though
Speaker 2: we were poor, I didn't realize we were poor until
Speaker 2: I got older, because you know, I grew up in
Speaker 2: Monks Corner, South Carolina, and you know, when you grow
Speaker 2: up in a ruined area like that, everybody is pretty
Speaker 2: much doing the same. Like, you know, you might have
Speaker 2: a couple of individuals who got a house that's better
Speaker 2: than yours, but for the most part, people were growing
Speaker 2: up in double wide trailers and we're growing up in
Speaker 2: you know, like small subvern homes like my grandma used
Speaker 2: to have. But the one thing that we always had
Speaker 2: was food in funny food, funny and family, literally you know.
Speaker 2: So it's like the things that people would call broke
Speaker 2: meals or the things that I still love now. Like
Speaker 2: I love grits and eggs. You give me some scrambled
Speaker 2: eggs with some grits and butter, I'm good. Like my
Speaker 2: grandma used to make this. She used to make cheese toast.
Speaker 2: So she would just take the toast. My mouth started
Speaker 2: water and thinking about it. She would just take the
Speaker 2: toast and like you know, put the butter on the
Speaker 2: center and then put a slice of cheese and literally
Speaker 2: warm that up. And I would drink that with a
Speaker 2: cup of tea. And now that I think about it,
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, that was like the meals that they
Speaker 2: were giving us because that's what they could afford to
Speaker 2: give us, like even you know, but it was amazing
Speaker 2: that it still tasted good. Like it don't make me
Speaker 2: feel like something. It's something that I still enjoy now. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, so to me, that's not It might be
Speaker 2: a broke dish, but I still love it.
Speaker 1: I love hearing guests say that they were broke but
Speaker 1: they didn't realize they were broke. But in those types
Speaker 1: of cities, what I did notice is that, yeah, everyone
Speaker 1: looked the same. But what differentiated kids from knowing whether
Speaker 1: they were broke was at least I don't know, we're
Speaker 1: close in age, but it was the like kicks, like
Speaker 1: were you going to school with the cool kicks or something?
Speaker 1: So or nah?
Speaker 3: I had none of those. My dad.
Speaker 2: I remember, I wanted they used to be these boots
Speaker 2: called high tech boots, and my dad they saw the
Speaker 2: bootleg version that pay less, and I wanted them so
Speaker 2: bad that I'm like, y'all get the bootleg version that pay.
Speaker 1: Less, and they didn't. The kids didn't noticing me.
Speaker 2: Well, no, I woke up one morning and my dad
Speaker 2: had the high tech sitting by my bed.
Speaker 3: So I was like, oh, shoot, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: So I actually had the real you know, all black
Speaker 2: high texts, you know, So I didn't have like the
Speaker 2: Jordans and all of that stuff like that.
Speaker 3: I don't. I don't even what kind of sneakers did
Speaker 3: I have back then.
Speaker 1: I'm saying in that environment, that wasn't the thing that
Speaker 1: differentiated a poor kid from it because in those environments,
Speaker 1: everyone's technically in the same economic structure. But I remember
Speaker 1: growing up in upstate New York where even though we
Speaker 1: were all kind of in the same category, there were
Speaker 1: some kids that would go to school wearing Jordan's or Nikes,
Speaker 1: and then they would look at the kids and say,
Speaker 1: we're payless and be like, okay, you're poor. And that's
Speaker 1: how as a child you knew you were poor.
Speaker 2: But the people who had the Jordans and stuff when
Speaker 2: I was growing up with the drug dealers for the
Speaker 2: most part, you know, I mean, either the drug dealers
Speaker 2: are like the football players because you know, people in
Speaker 2: their minds like all these people are going places, so
Speaker 2: you know, let me throw them some shoes or something
Speaker 2: like that. But for the most part, the drug dealers
Speaker 2: had to fly kicks that I remember, you know, growing up,
Speaker 2: I don't even remember what I didn't. I'm trying to
Speaker 2: sit in and try, like what did I wear back then?
Speaker 2: Sneak awise, I had some converse because you know, Snoop
Speaker 2: Dogg came out in like ninety two ninety three, so
Speaker 2: we had the converse all stars.
Speaker 3: You know, That's all I can really think of.
Speaker 1: So take me back to the cheese toast, which, by
Speaker 1: the way, I did have On the show, someone had
Speaker 1: did it with sugared.
Speaker 3: Mine was strat cheese toast to butter with a slice
Speaker 3: of cheese, cup of tea. That's what my grandmother would
Speaker 3: give us.
Speaker 2: And I can even still right now think about that,
Speaker 2: that feeling of having that, like it was just an
Speaker 2: amazing meal. I can't remember that. That wasn't even breakfast.
Speaker 2: That might have just been like, yo, you just got
Speaker 2: home from school. You might get some cheese toast with
Speaker 2: a cup of tea, you know, definitely, like I said,
Speaker 2: gritch and eggs for breakfast.
Speaker 1: And you keep referencing your grandma's house. Is there a
Speaker 1: reason because did you stay with her?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: Well, when I was young, my mother, my mother was
Speaker 2: a school teacher, you know, and my grandmother was a
Speaker 2: lunch lady. Right, so you know, I grew up in
Speaker 2: the air when you was in fifth grade, you know,
Speaker 2: you get get I could get dropped off a my
Speaker 2: grandma house and wait there till the adults come. And
Speaker 2: you know, I would never dare do that with my
Speaker 2: kids now, but you know, just back then, life was different.
Speaker 2: So I would literally wait till my mom came home
Speaker 2: from school. So I spent so much time you know,
Speaker 2: at my grandmother's house. Like, so, yeah, I spent a
Speaker 2: lot of time over there.
Speaker 1: Okay, and then take me through to at least fast
Speaker 1: forward to like your first walk of I want to
Speaker 1: get into entertainment or in that direction.
Speaker 2: My grandmother's house, sitting outside while they were waiting waiting
Speaker 2: for my mom and my grandma to get home, and like,
Speaker 2: when I was young, it used to seem like it
Speaker 2: was this huge field between my grandmother's house and my
Speaker 2: cousin Gloria's house. But the field really isn't that big now,
Speaker 2: But when I was younger, I used to feel like
Speaker 2: it was really big, and I.
Speaker 3: Would just be out there acting like I was performing.
Speaker 2: Like I literally would be facing the field, acting like
Speaker 2: that field was full of full of people, and I
Speaker 2: would be either be acting like I was, you know
Speaker 2: at a certain doing rock and roll. At certain points,
Speaker 2: I was just giving like speeches, and then like you know,
Speaker 2: as I started to getting hip hop, I started to
Speaker 2: act like I was rapping to a crowd. So that
Speaker 2: was my first Uh, I guess that's when the bug
Speaker 2: kind of hit me. Like, y'all want to entertain in
Speaker 2: some way, shape or form.
Speaker 1: Did you see or hear it somewhere and then it
Speaker 1: like touched you. Was it like maybe per Like I
Speaker 1: remember when I was a kid, I would see Michael
Speaker 1: Jackson performing. People pass out and I'd be like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, like that's incredible. Was there something like that
Speaker 1: that touched you to get you out into that field?
Speaker 3: Nah, I just think that.
Speaker 2: You know, my dad used to play music a lot,
Speaker 2: and you know, there was always albums lying around, so
Speaker 2: you would just see those people and they used to
Speaker 2: look they used to look cool, you know. I used
Speaker 2: to I'm a big cartoon guy to this day. So
Speaker 2: I used to like watch a lot of ThunderCats and.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, the ThunderCats.
Speaker 2: Thundercast and it was there was a spin off with
Speaker 2: the ThunderCats. I think it was the silver Fish or
Speaker 2: something like that. Maybe I'm bugging, but I remember, or
Speaker 2: maybe it was or maybe it was something with birds,
Speaker 2: you know, the cats. The ThunderCats were cat, but then
Speaker 2: it was it was a spin off show that was
Speaker 2: either Birds of Fish. I don't remember which one it was,
Speaker 2: but I remember like I would have this imagination that
Speaker 2: I was. You know, it's gonna sound crazy, but I
Speaker 2: was an animal like figure and I had a band
Speaker 2: behind me that was all those animal humanoids and we
Speaker 2: were like this group, And I don't know why I
Speaker 2: would go out in the yard and perform as this
Speaker 2: group all the time.
Speaker 1: So imagination at its best, that's what.
Speaker 3: That's all it was. So it's like, yeah, so then
Speaker 3: what was.
Speaker 1: That big, next big milestone? After you know you're performing,
Speaker 1: you kind of have this like love affair with performing.
Speaker 1: What was that next big milestone or pivotal moment where
Speaker 1: you said maybe I should actually push a button and
Speaker 1: take it a step further.
Speaker 2: Well, for radio, it started with me getting an internship.
Speaker 2: That's why I think internships are so important. And I
Speaker 2: got an internship when I was eighteen years old in Charleston,
Speaker 2: South Carolina. And the reason I was able to get
Speaker 2: that internship is because I always tell people, man, stop
Speaker 2: acting like.
Speaker 3: You know, and just ask questions.
Speaker 2: So I've always been a question ask her right, Like,
Speaker 2: if there's something that I'm interested in, something I don't
Speaker 2: know nothing about, I just asked questions about it, a
Speaker 2: lot of questions because you know, when you ask a
Speaker 2: lot of questions, you know you'll get you'll get answers.
Speaker 2: So I just simply asked my man. His name was
Speaker 2: Willy Will because he used to work as Z ninety
Speaker 2: three Jams in Charleston, South Carolina, and we used to
Speaker 2: rap together. Well, let me, I need to take a step.
Speaker 3: Back, right. Rap is what we all thought.
Speaker 2: Was gonna get us out of the hood right when
Speaker 2: you was young, because when you looked on television or
Speaker 2: you looked in magazines, the people who looked like you,
Speaker 2: who were successful Black people were usually in rap are
Speaker 2: some form of entertainment, are in athletics. So I always
Speaker 2: thought rap was gonna take me out of the hood. I
Speaker 2: love to write, always been a writer, so I just
Speaker 2: started turning those stories I was writing into into raps.
Speaker 2: But I was never good in the booth, so I
Speaker 2: would like, go in the booth. I couldn't like catch
Speaker 2: the bead stuff like that, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Like that, I just could never do it. But I
Speaker 2: was always good at writing, good at helping people pick songs,
Speaker 2: stuff like that. And Willie Will was a guy who
Speaker 2: could rap. He could actually he sounded really good.
Speaker 3: You know, in the booth.
Speaker 2: And I just asked him how did he get in
Speaker 2: the radio, and he was like, yeah, I got an internship.
Speaker 2: And I was like, Yo, it's dadd easy. I could
Speaker 2: just go down there and get an internship. And he
Speaker 2: was like, yeah, like I gotta be in school or nothing,
Speaker 2: because in my mind, you got to be seeing. He
Speaker 2: was like, no, this is nineteen ninety eight, Charles the
Speaker 2: South Carolina. So that's what I did. I drove down
Speaker 2: there and I got an internship, and literally they gave
Speaker 2: me then internship and that's how I got into the
Speaker 2: radio game.
Speaker 3: So rap is what.
Speaker 2: Made me feel like, Okay, this is gonna get me
Speaker 2: out the hood. And then that ultimately led me to radio,
Speaker 2: which was what changed my life. And you know, I
Speaker 2: had a great mentor named doctor Robert Evans. You know,
Speaker 2: I talk about him all the time. You know, in
Speaker 2: my first book, I got a chapter called fuck your dreams,
Speaker 2: you know, if they're not your dream right, because a
Speaker 2: lot of times we see things working for other people
Speaker 2: and we say, oh, we want to do that too,
Speaker 2: but that's not what God has meant for you.
Speaker 3: So doctor Evans told me, he was like, Yo, you suck.
Speaker 2: As a rapper, but you are an amazing radio personality
Speaker 2: and if you focus on radio, you could be one
Speaker 2: of the best that ever did it.
Speaker 3: And he literally said that to me, and I took
Speaker 3: his advice.
Speaker 1: So I don't like to jump around, but it's the
Speaker 1: irony and you saying that that was the advice you got.
Speaker 1: But then in Get Honest or Die Lying, you actually
Speaker 1: talk about doing the opposite in regards to.
Speaker 3: Your daughters astronaut kids.
Speaker 1: You still though, cherish that that moment of honesty.
Speaker 3: Well, astronaut kids.
Speaker 2: You know, in the new book is a chapter I
Speaker 2: did with my man, Elliott Connie, who's a psychotherapist, and
Speaker 2: you know, it's about the astronaut kid theory, like if
Speaker 2: your child comes to you and your child says, hey,
Speaker 2: I want to be an astronaut. You know, you don't say,
Speaker 2: all that's impossible, you'll never be an astronaut, blah blah blah.
Speaker 2: You tell them, okay, so how we're going to get
Speaker 2: it done? You know, you pour into them, you encourage them.
Speaker 2: And I also talk about, you know, in Black Privilege,
Speaker 2: about how I had a family member when I was
Speaker 2: just sitting around talking about all my dreams, talking about
Speaker 2: everything I want to accomplish, they told me not to
Speaker 2: set my goal. So because if I don't accomplish him,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be hurt, and I literally said to that person,
Speaker 2: that is the stupidest shit I ever heard in my life, because.
Speaker 3: I really felt that way.
Speaker 2: And with astronaut kids, when a child comes to you
Speaker 2: and they say they want to be something, you should
Speaker 2: pour into them. I still do believe in the fucking
Speaker 2: dreams mentality, but I believe that more so with adults
Speaker 2: who I know are chasing things that they see working
Speaker 2: for other people as opposed to tapping into what it
Speaker 2: is that they truly should be doing, you know, themselves.
Speaker 1: I agree. So what you're saying is like over eighteen,
Speaker 1: you definitely be honest. I remember I had an interview
Speaker 1: with DC young flying he wanted to be like a
Speaker 1: basketball player, and he said, you know, he transferred schools.
Speaker 1: He was like the best basketball player in this like
Speaker 1: little school. He was going to move to a different school.
Speaker 1: He was like the worst basketball player. And the coach,
Speaker 1: like catapultar to his dreams, was like, you'll never be
Speaker 1: a basketball player, and he was like, well, thank god
Speaker 1: for him saying that because it forced him to like
Speaker 1: check out other lanes. And I do agree with that,
Speaker 1: but I also heard the astronaut thing. I'm a new mom,
Speaker 1: like I'm daughters too, so I'm like soaking up any
Speaker 1: advice any parent will give me, you know. And I
Speaker 1: was like, well, you know all these some people say
Speaker 1: let your kid fall or whatever, but I did like
Speaker 1: the beauty in the astronaut theory. Going back to your internship,
Speaker 1: sorry to Derail. I like to see I like to
Speaker 1: see the growth in you, and you see it. You
Speaker 1: see it very You're very transparent about the growth of
Speaker 1: who you were, who were trying to be, and then
Speaker 1: who you've become and who you're actively becoming. But go ahead,
Speaker 1: take back to so you get into radio yep, and
Speaker 1: what's what's the environment, like, what what do you find
Speaker 1: that you love the most about it? And what was
Speaker 1: your internship duties at the time?
Speaker 2: Oh, internship duties. I did everything. I had to drive
Speaker 2: the station vehicle. I had to put the posters up,
Speaker 2: you know, I had to set up you know, the
Speaker 2: DJ equipment if need be, set up the tables for
Speaker 2: people to you know, put their stuff on, like literally
Speaker 2: whatever I needed to do. Like you know, people would
Speaker 2: like to call that do boys stuff, but it's like,
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess, you know.
Speaker 3: So I used to actually take the station vehicle home.
Speaker 2: So even when it was other intern shifts, they would
Speaker 2: come and be like.
Speaker 3: Well, where's the truck?
Speaker 1: Why are you taking it?
Speaker 2: Because when they would come and be like, where's the truck,
Speaker 2: then they would have you know what, I think Charlamagne
Speaker 2: had it last.
Speaker 3: They would call like, char I mean you got the truck? Yeah,
Speaker 3: actually I do. What's up?
Speaker 2: Well we got somebody got a remote an hour, I'm
Speaker 2: on the way, and I would take the truck and
Speaker 2: I would just go to the remote with the intern.
Speaker 3: So I was there. I was crashing everybody's set.
Speaker 2: And then not just coming to the you know, all
Speaker 2: the remotes, I would be sitting in the studio being
Speaker 2: a fly on the wall.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: Willie will used to let me sit in with him
Speaker 2: a lot, and I would just sit there and just
Speaker 2: like you know, soak it all up, you know, taking uh,
Speaker 2: taking what was going on. And this is another reason
Speaker 2: the astronaut kid theory is so powerful because I always
Speaker 2: talk about my homegirl Testing Spencer, you know who's from Charleston,
Speaker 2: South cam and her and Baby Jay had a show
Speaker 2: on Z ninety three called The Breakfast Club when I
Speaker 2: was growing up, and that was the huge morning show
Speaker 2: in Charleston ninety three still is the big heritage station
Speaker 2: down there, and Tesla calls the She called one day
Speaker 2: when I was on a Sunday morning doing what we
Speaker 2: call voice tracking. So voice tracking is basically you would
Speaker 2: record your your breaks upload them, but you still had
Speaker 2: to sit in the studio while the show was on
Speaker 2: because I was new, you know, And she called and
Speaker 2: she goes, yo, you know what. She was telling me
Speaker 2: about a traffic accident that was somewhere on but she
Speaker 2: was like, yo, you sound really good.
Speaker 3: And I said thank you.
Speaker 2: She's like, no, no, no, no, I'm not just saying that, like,
Speaker 2: you sound really good, like a natural. And the confidence
Speaker 2: that gave me, like the boost, the energy that gave me, like,
Speaker 2: oh shit, Tessa Spencer from the Breakfast Club just told
Speaker 2: me I sound good like So it solidified to me
Speaker 2: that I was doing what I was supposed to be
Speaker 2: doing because it already felt good. It felt amazing, like
Speaker 2: I'm talking, but it felt like on that microphone, it
Speaker 2: felt like the first time you had orgasm, Like literally,
Speaker 2: like that first time you got.
Speaker 3: High, you know, and you're like, oh man, this is amazing.
Speaker 3: It just felt incredible.
Speaker 2: And so when she told me that it just like
Speaker 2: set something off of me, that it lit a spark
Speaker 2: that hasn't hasn't gone.
Speaker 1: Out like this is definitely my purpose.
Speaker 3: I knew that because you got this tattoo I got
Speaker 3: on my armor here is.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, is that a Thundercat?
Speaker 2: No, it's Wolverine. It's horrible though. My man, it's a
Speaker 2: guy named t Willis. This when tattoos were illegal in
Speaker 2: South Carolina.
Speaker 3: My man, t Willis did this.
Speaker 2: But it's Wolverine from the X Men, holding a microphone
Speaker 2: in his hand.
Speaker 1: You need to get this. Oh yeah, I see, you
Speaker 1: see it.
Speaker 2: And the reason I got Wolverine because Wolverine is still
Speaker 2: my favorite X Men character. But the thing I loved
Speaker 2: about Wolverine was his healing powers. Literally, he had the
Speaker 2: ability to heal from any situation. And so I always
Speaker 2: knew in my mind even back then. I think I
Speaker 2: got this when I was seventeen, I knew that.
Speaker 3: Yo.
Speaker 2: Maybe I think I might have a little older, like
Speaker 2: eighteen nineteen, but I knew in my mind that I
Speaker 2: wanted to have that ability. I wanted to have the
Speaker 2: ability to heal from anything. This is before I didn't
Speaker 2: I didn't know nothing but no therapy. I wasn't on
Speaker 2: no healing journey back then. I was out of my
Speaker 2: mind back then, but I just knew in my mind
Speaker 2: I wanted to be able to heal from any situation.
Speaker 2: And I knew physically, and I used to say this
Speaker 2: to myself. I knew that wasn't possible physically, so I
Speaker 2: used to always say emotionally mentally, you know, I wanted
Speaker 2: to be able to heal from anything. And he's holding
Speaker 2: a mic because I thought rap was gonna be what
Speaker 2: changed my life, but actually it was these type of
Speaker 2: microphones that changed my life. And then now you see,
Speaker 2: I'm I'm a huge mental advocate, huge mental health advocate,
Speaker 2: helping people on their healing journey. So it's just like, man,
Speaker 2: God don't waste nothing.
Speaker 1: He don't. But now, back at eighteen to ninety, you
Speaker 1: also had the name Charlotte Mane or you had the
Speaker 1: nickname then.
Speaker 3: Yes, because I was.
Speaker 2: I graduated from night school and let me see, I
Speaker 2: graduate from night school in nineteen ninety eight, so I
Speaker 2: was either I was either about to be twenty or
Speaker 2: still nineteen. But yeah, because I used to sell crack
Speaker 2: and I used to always say my name was Charles, like,
Speaker 2: because you know, I come from a small town, so
Speaker 2: if I said my real name, people be like, oh,
Speaker 2: that's Larry's son, that's Julie son.
Speaker 3: So I used to always say my name was Charles
Speaker 3: or Charlie.
Speaker 2: And then we used to all smoke a lot of weeds,
Speaker 2: so we all had a like like weed nickname. So
Speaker 2: I was like Charlie Chronic. Somebody else was like Mikey Marijuana.
Speaker 2: Somebody else was Nikabodism, somebody else was Bobby Buddha.
Speaker 1: I think it's interesting because throughout your whole story it
Speaker 1: seems like you're you had the Charlemagne, which was almost
Speaker 1: I hate to say it for lack of better terms,
Speaker 1: but you had this like bad boy persona type oh yeah,
Speaker 1: thing that you were you were leading with. But then
Speaker 1: in the back of your mind, even with the god
Speaker 1: or with the next it was like in the back
Speaker 1: of your mind but like healing or moving in this
Speaker 1: like purposeful direct but even lingering in the background.
Speaker 2: Right yeah, but even with charlamagnecause Charlamagne is French for
Speaker 2: Charles the Great, and Charlemagne was a Roman emperor who
Speaker 2: went about spreading religion and education.
Speaker 3: And then you know in Haiti.
Speaker 2: There's a general Charlemagne, and he was just a revolutionary, right,
Speaker 2: So I picked that name for those reasons because they
Speaker 2: meant something. So I'm sitting in night school looking at
Speaker 2: the history of book and I see Charles the Great,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, Charles the Great, I'm like Charlemagne. I'm like,
Speaker 2: I'm like, Charlemagne is French for Charles the Great. So
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, I just call myself Charlemagne Charlomagne the God.
Speaker 2: So it really didn't make no sense. It's like it'd
Speaker 2: be like Charles the Great, the God. But I was
Speaker 2: seventeen in high all the time.
Speaker 3: I eighteen. I don't remember how.
Speaker 2: I can't remember how I was, Like, I know it
Speaker 2: was nineteen ninety eight, so I was like nineteen probably,
Speaker 2: but I was in night.
Speaker 1: School, Okay. And then, now, when do you officially after
Speaker 1: the internships start getting into Paige, Like, how long?
Speaker 2: I I was an intern for a while because they
Speaker 2: actually had canceled the internship programs, and then they brought
Speaker 2: me back. And then when they brought me back, they
Speaker 2: hired me in the promotions department, so basically to get
Speaker 2: paid only I think it might have been six hours
Speaker 2: an hour if that at the time.
Speaker 3: And so I was.
Speaker 2: Getting paid a little bit of money, you know, to
Speaker 2: being promotions. And then my man, Ron White, my guy,
Speaker 2: Ron White still my guy this day. He was the
Speaker 2: music director at the time, and he was like, yo,
Speaker 2: you need to You said, you ever thought about being
Speaker 2: on the radio, And I was like nah.
Speaker 3: He was like no, nah, because I hadn't you know
Speaker 3: what I mean.
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, I was just I was just happy
Speaker 2: to be there and like you know, every now and
Speaker 2: then I would jump on with Willie will you know,
Speaker 2: but I never thought to myself, I can get my
Speaker 2: own show or anything like that.
Speaker 3: He was like, yo, you should, you should, you should
Speaker 3: be on air.
Speaker 2: And so Ron White is the president that started, you know,
Speaker 2: allowed me to voice track and put me on there,
Speaker 2: you know. So that's why I got mad love for
Speaker 2: you know, Ron to this day. Like you know, certain
Speaker 2: people change the trajectory trajectory of your life, and you know,
Speaker 2: you you should always honor those people, you know, for
Speaker 2: for for even if you're not on the great terms
Speaker 2: of them, even if you don't like the person no more,
Speaker 2: you should always honor them in your story. Yeah, by
Speaker 2: telling them that, you know, but tell telling that story
Speaker 2: about them, because you can't erase that.
Speaker 1: The only reason why I wanted to know the how
Speaker 1: long it is? Because we are definitely in the air
Speaker 1: and you talk about it in the book where everyone is,
Speaker 1: especially with the younger people, and I try to think
Speaker 1: back if I was like that, even though I catch
Speaker 1: myself still being like that is like the overnight success,
Speaker 1: Like how long did it take? That's why I wanted
Speaker 1: to stress, like thirty years in radio broadcasting? How long
Speaker 1: did it take of you struggling before you got your
Speaker 1: first big Like well, I don't want to say the
Speaker 1: six dollar check, but that you know, Oh.
Speaker 2: I didn't get a huge check in radio. Tell Breakfast
Speaker 2: Club wow, because.
Speaker 1: Breakfast Club was just easily ten years, right, yet longer.
Speaker 2: Cause it was that was Breakfast Club was the seventh
Speaker 2: radio station I worked at. So I started in nineteen
Speaker 2: ninety eight and then I got with Breakfast Club in
Speaker 2: two thousand and ten.
Speaker 3: Year, So what's that?
Speaker 1: What's that terms twelve years?
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I worked at four radio stations in Charleston
Speaker 2: and then I was with Wendy Winn. But I worked
Speaker 2: with Wendy for like a year and a half for free.
Speaker 2: You know, and then when I got put on salary,
Speaker 2: I was making seventy thousand dollars a year. And then
Speaker 2: I got my own morning show in Philadelphia, and I
Speaker 2: still was making like seventy grand a year, seventy seventy
Speaker 2: five grand a year, something like that. And then I
Speaker 2: went back home. I had to go back home to
Speaker 2: South Carolina. Like I fired four times.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that was my next one. Why were you
Speaker 1: getting fired so much?
Speaker 2: That was just a game, Like it wasn't even about
Speaker 2: anything that I was necessarily doing. It's just like, that's
Speaker 2: just the business of a radio. Like when I started
Speaker 2: as the ninety three Jams. That's why I was an intern.
Speaker 2: That's when I was in promotions. That's when I worked
Speaker 2: in programming. I quit, you know, there to go work
Speaker 2: at a station called Hotney eight nine. My man George Cook,
Speaker 2: who is the operations manager at K one oh four
Speaker 2: in Dallas. He's the first person to give me a
Speaker 2: full time job on radio. Still a great mental mind
Speaker 2: to this day. And even then I was making nineteen
Speaker 2: grand a year. And then I, you know, went to Columbia.
Speaker 2: After I got fired from hot ninety nine. They fired
Speaker 2: George George who hired me, they fired him, bought in
Speaker 2: a new guy, Corey Hill, who was the program director,
Speaker 2: and then Corey fired me because he Corey wanted to
Speaker 2: bring in his own people.
Speaker 3: Of course, that's just the way the game goes in radio.
Speaker 1: Now, during this whole journey, what's your mental health looking like?
Speaker 1: Are you starting to second guess whether this is your journey?
Speaker 1: I really want to dig into that mental health state
Speaker 1: when you're going through that roller coaster wave, because you
Speaker 1: even ended up back at home with your parents at
Speaker 1: some point.
Speaker 3: I did the first time.
Speaker 2: The first time I got fired from radio, which was
Speaker 2: Hot ninety eight nine in Charleston, I was a little
Speaker 2: I was a little fucked up mentally because I didn't
Speaker 2: know that I could go do radio other places.
Speaker 3: So in my mind like that was my one shot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I mean I didn't I'm from Monks Corner,
Speaker 2: South Carolina. I know that area. I know I can
Speaker 2: have success in Charleston. I never even thought about, you know,
Speaker 2: doing radio other places. And it wasn't until I did
Speaker 2: this demo tape. But it was actually because I used
Speaker 2: to do my man, doctor Robert Evans and his son,
Speaker 2: my guy DJ Bluss loved him to death. They had
Speaker 2: a record label called Never So Deep, and so I
Speaker 2: was doing an r for them, and they put out
Speaker 2: a compilation album and it was like all of their
Speaker 2: artists because they had a subsidiary deal with an MCA
Speaker 2: back then.
Speaker 3: That's MCA was a big label back in the day.
Speaker 2: And so they had a compilation album and I narrated
Speaker 2: the compilation album, but I put it together like a
Speaker 2: radio show. And so we were just sending that out,
Speaker 2: you know, around the country, and one of the program
Speaker 2: directors in South Carolina named Mike Love, he was like yo.
Speaker 3: He'd sent me an email.
Speaker 2: He was like, yo, yo, do you do radio for real?
Speaker 2: And I'm like yeah, and he was like, man, come
Speaker 2: see me. And so I drove an hour and a
Speaker 2: half the Columbia, South Carolina from Monk's Corner, met my guy,
Speaker 2: Mike Glove. Salute to Mike Glove, and Mike started putting
Speaker 2: me on in Columbia Thursday. I think I was on Friday,
Speaker 2: Saturday and Sunday in Columbia. Maybe Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday.
Speaker 3: I dont remember it.
Speaker 1: And that was your second after getting fired from the first.
Speaker 3: That was yeah, that was it. But that was the
Speaker 3: third station I worked at third.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I loved working in Columbia because my wife
Speaker 2: was going to the University of South Carolina, so that's
Speaker 2: in Columbia. So now I had a reason to be
Speaker 2: up there every weekend, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: So once again, that's God.
Speaker 2: You can't you cannot script that, like that is all God.
Speaker 2: That's God putting all of those pieces together. Like I
Speaker 2: want y'all to be with each other, you know here, right,
Speaker 2: even if y'all go through ups and y'all go through downs,
Speaker 2: I still want you all around each other. Because we
Speaker 2: did break up for a year at one point during
Speaker 2: that time. We've been together twenty six years. But long
Speaker 2: story short, I ended up in Columbia that station.
Speaker 3: Big DM flipped formats, so I.
Speaker 2: Ended up going to work for the station that they bought,
Speaker 2: which was Hot one o three nine, which was the
Speaker 2: big hip hop station in that market. And from Hot
Speaker 2: one o three point nine, that's when when Williams got
Speaker 2: syndicated on Hot one of three point nine. So when
Speaker 2: they would come to the market, her and her husband,
Speaker 2: I would just show him love, you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: like make sure they was good or whatever they needed
Speaker 2: you know, take them to the clubs, stuff like that,
Speaker 2: and that's how we forged a relationship, you know. And
Speaker 2: and it wasn't just they forged relationship with other people
Speaker 2: around the station at that time too, like you know,
Speaker 2: my homegirl Venom, she had a good relationship with them
Speaker 2: as well. So we all just had a had a relationship,
Speaker 2: you know. And that's how all of those doctor ended
Speaker 2: up connecting.
Speaker 1: Okay, how was it working with Wendy Williams.
Speaker 2: Best best and worst time in my life? You know,
Speaker 2: best and worst, best and worst time.
Speaker 3: In my life?
Speaker 2: Just because like Wendy come from it, she comes from
Speaker 2: a different era, you know, Like there's been time I remember,
Speaker 2: I remember sitting in the studio offering some input and
Speaker 2: shut the fuck up and do it my way or
Speaker 2: get the fuck out, you know what I mean, shut
Speaker 2: the I don't want to hit shit from you, motherfucker.
Speaker 3: Like so it was like this was like before H.
Speaker 1: Well nowadays HR terrified.
Speaker 2: I think about that shit all the time, likes their
Speaker 2: HR departments. Back then, it couldn't have been.
Speaker 1: Not the ship were really know, I think also when
Speaker 1: you're young, I don't think anyone really knows how to
Speaker 1: use HR. I mean, I could be wrong with today's
Speaker 1: culture of cancel culture, like people are like more, but
Speaker 1: I remember being like sexually her, like all types of
Speaker 1: things because I did not know how HR worked. I
Speaker 1: just knew I needed my job and I wasn't willing
Speaker 1: to do anything to jeopardize.
Speaker 2: And that's you know, back then, it was like, you know,
Speaker 2: I had I was. I had personal relationships with them, man,
Speaker 2: professional relationship with them, and you saw how everything turned
Speaker 2: out with you know, her and her husband. So it
Speaker 2: was like all of that was a very tumultuous, tumultuous,
Speaker 2: I don't know if I'm saying the word right, tumultualist, tumultuous, tumultuous,
Speaker 2: A fucked up situation.
Speaker 3: It was. It was all fun. It was a very
Speaker 3: fuck up situation.
Speaker 1: Men, you like that too? Also, is like because the
Speaker 1: lines were blurred, right, So that's why she was talking.
Speaker 1: So what was the highlight of it?
Speaker 2: Just working with Wendy, Working with one of the greatest
Speaker 2: media personalities of all time. You know, regardless of what
Speaker 2: her you know, personal showcomings may have been, professionally, she's
Speaker 2: one of the fucking best to ever do it, you know,
Speaker 2: from TV to radio, like I mean the things that
Speaker 2: I used to watch her do as far as like
Speaker 2: you know, show prep, Like you know, Wendy was a
Speaker 2: person who really lived. She lived, you know, the culture
Speaker 2: that she spoke about. She wasn't one of those people
Speaker 2: who got in front of the microphone and gossiped, because
Speaker 2: you know, she was performing.
Speaker 3: That's really who she was.
Speaker 2: And so for me, it was just that's not I mean,
Speaker 2: I don't want to do the gossip thing, but it
Speaker 2: was just like be authentic, be who you are. Like
Speaker 2: I would see I would be with her all day
Speaker 2: and then come sit with her in that studio and
Speaker 2: do the show and watch her detail our day. You
Speaker 2: understand what I'm saying. So it's just like everything was
Speaker 2: content for her.
Speaker 3: I was in the store and this happened, we were
Speaker 3: driving and this, like it was all content.
Speaker 2: And so it's like for me, that's like that's how
Speaker 2: that's always been my approach, you know, like your life,
Speaker 2: your life is your best content. That's why I'm able
Speaker 2: to write three books because I'm not performing. I'm literally
Speaker 2: just showcasing and sharing all of these different things that
Speaker 2: you know, I've experienced, all these different things that I've
Speaker 2: learned and I'm not afraid to be transparent, Like I
Speaker 2: gotta be afraid to be transparent. When I've heard Wendy
Speaker 2: Williams talk about being on crack smoking, smoking sniff and
Speaker 2: coke cooking, the coke smoking, the crack, throwing up on
Speaker 2: the radiator because she was so high, and then the
Speaker 2: fucking radiator cooking, the cooking, the throw up. Like, but
Speaker 2: that's that's a surreal It's an amazing story. So if
Speaker 2: I come from being next to that, why wouldn't I
Speaker 2: be just as authentic? Plus we hip hop. Yeah, so
Speaker 2: think about all the stories we've heard, the jay Z's
Speaker 2: tell and the Big East Tell and the scarfaces and
Speaker 2: the killing Mike, all of these people that we love.
Speaker 2: So it's just like, I want to be that same
Speaker 2: type of storyteller.
Speaker 1: So was it in that moment that you realize that
Speaker 1: authenticity was the key to success in radio?
Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah, I knew that.
Speaker 2: But I knew that before Wendy because I was already
Speaker 2: admiring people like Wendy.
Speaker 3: I was already admiring pe D Green. Pe D Green is.
Speaker 2: That's my all time favorite radio personality, right, So I
Speaker 2: already knew authenticity was what separated you period, Like, it's
Speaker 2: ironic that the name of this book is called Get
Speaker 2: Honest or Die Lying, because that could have been the
Speaker 2: name of my first book. Because literally, I've always my
Speaker 2: daddy used to always tell me when you lying to people,
Speaker 2: or he was used to say, specifically him.
Speaker 3: You lying.
Speaker 2: You think you're lining to me, but you're only lying
Speaker 2: to yourself. And so I never ever wanted to be
Speaker 2: that person that is, you know, lying to themselves, because
Speaker 2: what happens is you end up volunteering those lives to
Speaker 2: other people. And I think that's what's happening in this
Speaker 2: era that we're in now in social media, like you know,
Speaker 2: just everybody feel like they got to perform, So who's
Speaker 2: really truly being themselves? Everybody's showing up with a mask.
Speaker 1: On yeah, social but you know what it's you talk
Speaker 1: You mentioned Larussell, but I thought l Russell did a
Speaker 1: really good job at kind of putting the case. And
Speaker 1: I talked him about this. I'm like, yo, I can't
Speaker 1: be that transparent. He's like, you got to, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know. He'd be showing like, okay, this was
Speaker 1: the sales or this is me pressing up the shot.
Speaker 1: He would show everything, just document everything, and I thought
Speaker 1: that was like a crazy amount of transparency. I was like,
Speaker 1: I could never ever do that.
Speaker 3: I love that dude.
Speaker 1: Man.
Speaker 2: L Russell was introduced to me by my late great
Speaker 2: friend Hovain, and I never forget it because Hovain he
Speaker 2: sent me a video of L. Russell rapping and L
Speaker 2: Russell it was like the first one. It was the
Speaker 2: one that went crazy viral. Well, he was rapping about
Speaker 2: so many things and socially redeeming value. He was rapping
Speaker 2: about being a young brother, trying to heal like it
Speaker 2: was everything I was on and so Hovain sent it
Speaker 2: to me and I didn't get a chance to listen
Speaker 2: to it. I remember a couple of days later, Hovain
Speaker 2: text me like, there's no way you listened to that,
Speaker 2: because you know me. He was like, there's no way
Speaker 2: you listened to that, and I was like, you know what,
Speaker 2: let me let me listen to it. When he Hope
Speaker 2: Set text me that I listened and I'm like, why
Speaker 2: are you just telling me about him?
Speaker 3: He's like, I sent you this three.
Speaker 2: Days ago, crazy right, And so it was like immediately
Speaker 2: I had to repost it because I wanted the world
Speaker 2: to hear that and then you know, when you meet
Speaker 2: l Russell, his energy is just just everything man. So
Speaker 2: he's just one of them young brothers. He always got
Speaker 2: my support just because he's a He's a solid, solid
Speaker 2: human being who I think is delivering a message not
Speaker 2: just of independence when it comes to business, but a
Speaker 2: message of healing that I think a lot of brothers
Speaker 2: need to heal.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Integrity is like definitely like a word I use
Speaker 1: a lot, and when I'm looking for entrepreneurs, celebrities or influencers,
Speaker 1: I'm always looking for that level of integrity. And I
Speaker 1: remember just being like, okay, like talented, definitely talented and
Speaker 1: all that, but I was like, I want to know,
Speaker 1: like if we're a fly on your wall, like what
Speaker 1: am I seeing?
Speaker 3: For real? But that's what integrity is.
Speaker 2: And that's that's another part of the book, right get
Speaker 2: Honest to Die line. That's why I said, like, you know,
Speaker 2: we tell we lie to ourselves and then we volunteer
Speaker 2: these lies the other people. Integrity to me is doing
Speaker 2: what's right when nobody's around. Who are you when the
Speaker 2: camera's not on? Who are you when the microphone isn't on? Like,
Speaker 2: because I really care more about God than anybody. That's
Speaker 2: why you don't care about perception. You should focus on
Speaker 2: your character, because perception is what everybody thinks about you,
Speaker 2: and that varies from person to person.
Speaker 3: Character is who you actually are. So I care about
Speaker 3: my character.
Speaker 2: I don't care if the world has a perception of
Speaker 2: me because they don't know me, you know. And that's
Speaker 2: why people will say things like, what's the biggest misconception
Speaker 2: about you? Charlm There is no misconception because I don't
Speaker 2: know what version of me you saw. I've been doing
Speaker 2: this shit for twenty six years, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: I don't know what version of me you saw. So
Speaker 2: whatever version of me you saw, whatever perception you have
Speaker 2: of me based off what you saw, I can't trip
Speaker 2: off that, you know.
Speaker 1: No, Now, after the Wendy Williams, you leave Wendy Williams.
Speaker 1: How long was the gap between Wendy Williams and the
Speaker 1: Breakfast Club?
Speaker 3: I left Wendy November two, two thousand and eight.
Speaker 1: You remember this well.
Speaker 2: I remember it for a particular reason. I remember it
Speaker 2: because President Barack Obama became He became president elect on
Speaker 2: November third, two thousand and eight, So and I got
Speaker 2: fired November second two thousand and eight from Wendy, but
Speaker 2: like twenty five people got fired, like it was a
Speaker 2: massive layoff. People forget how fucked up the economy was
Speaker 2: in two thousand and eight. So it wasn't just me
Speaker 2: that got fired. You had great legendary radio personality like
Speaker 2: Bond Harper got fired and Champagne like these are legendary
Speaker 2: urban adult contemporary personality.
Speaker 1: Him when you got fired, did you actually look at
Speaker 1: it as everyone's getting the rap? Because I know me,
Speaker 1: I'll be like, I know everyone's going through it, but
Speaker 1: what about Well.
Speaker 2: You know it was good for me because when I
Speaker 2: got fired, it was news like it was in like
Speaker 2: the New York Times and like I think it was
Speaker 2: PIXE eleven or one of these local New York radio
Speaker 2: stations came to interview me and Wendy about my firing.
Speaker 2: I remember them saying fan favorite, and I was like,
Speaker 2: oh shit, fan favorite. Because you got to think when
Speaker 2: I first thoughted with Wendy, they hated me, like literally,
Speaker 2: New York City did not fuck with me. Like they
Speaker 2: even put up a survey that said they said, shar
Speaker 2: Charlamage be sent back home. It was like eighty five
Speaker 2: percent of people was like sending his ass back home.
Speaker 1: How did that make you feel when you saw those surveys?
Speaker 3: It didn't make me feel any way.
Speaker 2: Like I promise you, man, I've never been that kind
Speaker 2: of person. Like I just I understand things happen, and
Speaker 2: I have such a belief in myself, and I have
Speaker 2: such a belief in God, and I have such a
Speaker 2: belief in what, you know, what God has me here
Speaker 2: to do that I just feel like all of that
Speaker 2: I knew even back then, even though it might have stung,
Speaker 2: I just knew it was part of the process. Like
Speaker 2: I knew I was not going to lose. I constantly
Speaker 2: hear jay z voice in my head. I will not lose,
Speaker 2: you know. I just I knew that I was not
Speaker 2: going to lose. And so it's like, all right, I'll
Speaker 2: get y'all. You might you may not like me now,
Speaker 2: but I'll get y'all. And fast forward two and a
Speaker 2: half years later, the news is reporting I'm a fan favorite,
Speaker 2: and guess what me working at Wendy. I did what
Speaker 2: I was supposed to do at Wendy so much that
Speaker 2: I ended up getting my own radio show in Philadelphia.
Speaker 2: And I loved it, right because I got fired November second,
Speaker 2: two thousand and eight. My oldest daughter, who actually turned
Speaker 2: sixteen today or the day we're taping this.
Speaker 3: She had been born June of that year.
Speaker 2: So from November two thousand and eight to like May
Speaker 2: of two thousand and nine, I was home every day
Speaker 2: with my daughter because my wife was the one going
Speaker 2: to work every day. My wife was keeping the lights on.
Speaker 2: I was too proud to go collect unemployment.
Speaker 3: I had no money.
Speaker 1: You didn't even collect collect.
Speaker 2: I didn't collectunemploym until I got fired from Philadelphia.
Speaker 3: From my fourth time.
Speaker 1: I love that's your wife, and you definitely had that
Speaker 1: team environment like ones down. Well it's okay, we're going
Speaker 1: to run it man.
Speaker 3: She held it down, you know.
Speaker 2: I mean we ultimately had we were facing the evictions
Speaker 2: and all types of stuff like that, but she held
Speaker 2: it down. And so it's like when I started off,
Speaker 2: I started doing radio and Philly. I got the morning
Speaker 2: radio show in Philly because of what I had done
Speaker 2: on Wendy Show, and then from morning radio that morning
Speaker 2: radio in Philly, even though I was only there for
Speaker 2: eight nine months and got fired right for the same reason.
Speaker 2: They bought in a new program director, guy named Boogie
Speaker 2: d you know who fired me from one hundred point
Speaker 2: three to beat in Philly. They need to be aware
Speaker 2: of their fuck ups. These people need to be aware
Speaker 2: of the mistakes they made in life. So he fired me,
Speaker 2: and I was We went home for a year, me
Speaker 2: and my wife and my oldest daughter and went home.
Speaker 2: He went home to South Carolina for a year. That's
Speaker 2: when I started collecting unemployment. I had never collected unemployment
Speaker 2: from any of those four radio stations I got fired.
Speaker 2: So I was getting like eleven hundred dollars a week
Speaker 2: for like fifty two weeks the whole year. And the
Speaker 2: last unemployment check I got was like November, like second
Speaker 2: week in November, and that was the same week I
Speaker 2: think I started breakfast club.
Speaker 3: Wow, yep wow.
Speaker 1: And then you come to breakfast club and this is
Speaker 1: it sounds like you could correct me? Is this this
Speaker 1: is the highest salary of your career because now you're
Speaker 1: what you said in your book and now look at you.
Speaker 1: I also, you know, I had to like just out
Speaker 1: of share curiosity, and he made one hundred and twenty
Speaker 1: five k. Then like and then to see I googled
Speaker 1: it is probably wrong, but I was like Okay, so
Speaker 1: then how much does he make now from the breakfast club?
Speaker 1: I think I said like three million or something like that. Wow,
Speaker 1: is a lie? Is it Google? A lie?
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I won't from and I have no idea. I'm not
Speaker 2: I'm not one of those guys.
Speaker 1: I don't know why googled it. I was just random.
Speaker 1: I get curious all the most random stuff. Okay, so
Speaker 1: you're at the breakfast club. Where does publishing take place,
Speaker 1: like the book writing? Where does that like happen? Because
Speaker 1: I know the first time I read Black Privilege had
Speaker 1: to been Was it seven year? No?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it came out, it came out, it came out
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen. No, it came out twenty seventeen. Came out
Speaker 2: twenty seventeen, came out April of twenty seventeen.
Speaker 1: I read that book. It's so funny. Of the only
Speaker 1: other books I've ever read by entertainers is mainly Jay
Speaker 1: Z Russell Simmons, and I read your book and it
Speaker 1: inspired me to read I think Kevin Hart's book, and
Speaker 1: then I realized, no, not everyone's the same. I really
Speaker 1: like your writing, Thank you. I really like it.
Speaker 2: I mean, I actually write, you know, my guy Chris Morrow,
Speaker 2: who I always give credit to because you know, he
Speaker 2: told me two things that absolutely changed my life. He
Speaker 2: told me twelve years ago, you need to write a book,
Speaker 2: and you need to start a podcast. And I always
Speaker 2: wanted to write a book because I'm a writer, right,
Speaker 2: I knew that was gonna come. But I was like
Speaker 2: a podcast. I was like, why would I start a podcast?
Speaker 2: Podcaster for people who can't get on radio?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 2: I remember saying that twelve yeah, twelve years ago even,
Speaker 2: and he was like, he was like, now I'm telling
Speaker 2: you man, it's gonna be the next wave.
Speaker 3: YadA, YadA, YadA.
Speaker 2: And I started listening to Combat Jack around that time,
Speaker 2: God Bless the Dead, Reggie Osha, and so I listened.
Speaker 3: I was like, you know what, why not?
Speaker 2: Because in my mind, I'm like, already been fired, you know,
Speaker 2: four times from radio. And the thing that kept me
Speaker 2: afloating in people's minds after I got fired from Philadelphia
Speaker 2: was I got to salute to Angelie Be going up
Speaker 2: to her satellite radio show, doing guest spots on there,
Speaker 2: and me and Little Duball used to do a YouTube
Speaker 2: show called hood State of the Union. Me and Little
Speaker 2: Duball was doing YouTube shows back in two thousands, and
Speaker 2: it was first brand new exactly, and like people would
Speaker 2: watch them on YouTube, but then the blogs would pick
Speaker 2: them up like world Star and everybody else. And so
Speaker 2: that's how I ended up even getting my first looks
Speaker 2: in TV, like my first real looks in TV, because
Speaker 2: Nick Cannon had a show called a Hayton that he
Speaker 2: was the executive producer on, and my girl Tiffany Williams,
Speaker 2: she put me in du ball on that show. So
Speaker 2: I've always understood the power of the internet, right and
Speaker 2: how to utilize the Internet to build a national.
Speaker 3: Audience.
Speaker 2: So that's why I started the podcast because I knew,
Speaker 2: all right, let's just say I do get fired from
Speaker 2: Breakfast Club, at least I have something else, you know,
Speaker 2: going on. So me and my guy Andrew Schultz, who
Speaker 2: now is the biggest comedian in the world, which I
Speaker 2: would have.
Speaker 1: No idea, how impressed any I.
Speaker 2: Used to go back and listen to old brid Idiots episodes.
Speaker 2: I used to say that I'm like yo, Andrew shot
Speaker 2: to get that because there was a comedian named Russell
Speaker 2: uh Russell Peters and he was like the biggest touring
Speaker 2: comedian in the world. But people didn't even really realize it.
Speaker 2: And I used to always say, Andrew, you're gonna be that,
Speaker 2: You're gonna be the biggest touring comedian in the world, like,
Speaker 2: and that's what he's doing now. But back then I
Speaker 2: just thought he was smart, funny because we used to
Speaker 2: do guy code together and we used to talk on
Speaker 2: the phone. And I remember one time we all ended
Speaker 2: up on a plane the LA for the MTV Awards
Speaker 2: or something like that. We all rolled in the car together,
Speaker 2: me and him and Melanie Iglesias and we like me
Speaker 2: and Andrew has been cool since then.
Speaker 1: You know, when did you actually say Okay, yes, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna do book publishing and then with that you ended
Speaker 1: up doing your own you published it yourself.
Speaker 2: Well, no, I put out A Black Privilege with Simon
Speaker 2: and Schustu. Black Privilege had tremendous success, you know, instant bestseller,
Speaker 2: New York Times national bestseller. It was on New York
Speaker 2: Times Bestsellers. This's for like twenty plus weeks. And so
Speaker 2: they came to me and they wanted me to do
Speaker 2: another book immediately. I had started therapy in twenty and sixteen,
Speaker 2: so man in the middle of twenty seventeen late twenty eighteen,
Speaker 2: I was in a total different mind state because I
Speaker 2: was unlearning so many things that I had learned throughout
Speaker 2: my life, and I was dealing with a lot of
Speaker 2: the traumas that I had never ever, you know, dealt
Speaker 2: with before.
Speaker 3: So I was really in a confused state.
Speaker 2: And so when twenty eighteen came around and they was
Speaker 2: kept pressing me for this book, pressing me for this book,
Speaker 2: I was like, look, man, I've been going to therapy.
Speaker 2: I can share some of the journy of that. I
Speaker 2: can share to some of the things that you know,
Speaker 2: I go there and talk about. And that's what I did.
Speaker 2: And then my book agent, Jan Miller, had the idea
Speaker 2: to add my man, doctor ish major, who gave the
Speaker 2: clinical correlations to the things that I was saying. Like,
Speaker 2: if you go back and you listen to Shook one
Speaker 2: or read Shook one, you'll you'll hear how raw that was,
Speaker 2: you'll hear you know, the mind state that I was in,
Speaker 2: you know, at that time. And then when it came
Speaker 2: time to do my third book, because you know, Shiok
Speaker 2: one was a success as well, another bestseller, I was like, yo,
Speaker 2: I don't even want like a big advance, Like I'm
Speaker 2: not looking for like a huge amount of money, because
Speaker 2: you know, every time you put out a book, you know,
Speaker 2: you have success, advances get bigger.
Speaker 3: I was like, Yo, just give me, you know, give
Speaker 3: me what y'all gave.
Speaker 2: Me for the last one. But I really want to imprint.
Speaker 2: I really want to be able to publish other people's.
Speaker 1: Oh that's how the Black Privileged Publishing.
Speaker 2: It literally was like that because you know, for me, man,
Speaker 2: like I always say, if whatever your if whatever, your
Speaker 2: build old thing only benefits you, it's not big enough.
Speaker 2: So I was just like, yo, let me get an imprint.
Speaker 2: And by the way, all I can say is no, right,
Speaker 2: And it was like, hell, yeah, let's do what.
Speaker 1: It did with the Black Effect podcast network. Yeah did
Speaker 1: you do the same thing?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Black Effect was essentially the same thing, because a little
Speaker 2: bit different, only because you know, with radio you have
Speaker 2: contracts and so you know, five years five years is
Speaker 2: like the max deal and I had did a couple of.
Speaker 3: Five year deals already. Yeah, I did a couple five years.
Speaker 3: I was uh yeah. So when twenty twenty came, my
Speaker 3: five years was up.
Speaker 2: So you know, we were in negotiations and you know
Speaker 2: the beauty, and I give, I give a little jewel
Speaker 2: because it'll never happen again, but I'll give a little jewel.
Speaker 2: I come from the era of radio where all of
Speaker 2: these new things that we were doing weren't in our contracts,
Speaker 2: meaning like I had a radio contract, so the only
Speaker 2: you know, entities, I couldn't have conversations with his other
Speaker 2: radio stations.
Speaker 3: With the world changed, so.
Speaker 2: Now we're doing We've been doing Brand Idiots podcasts for
Speaker 2: eight nine years at that time, right, and there's all
Speaker 2: of these different platforms, the apples and the Spotify's and
Speaker 2: all of these different people are looking for content, and
Speaker 2: it's like, oh, Charlamagne's contract is up right, are coming up?
Speaker 2: So you know, you had different people, you know, reaching
Speaker 2: out to my agents whoever else. And I always had
Speaker 2: this idea because I was looking at just the landscape
Speaker 2: of podcasting and I'm like, man, you know, you got
Speaker 2: Barstool over here, and you got Gimblet over here, and
Speaker 2: you know, I was already a part owner of the
Speaker 2: Loud Speaking Network with my man Chris Morrow and Combat Jack.
Speaker 2: But I felt like there was no house for black
Speaker 2: podcasts like you had all of these black podcasts that
Speaker 2: were scattered all over the place, and they had audiences,
Speaker 2: but they might not have been connecting that audience with
Speaker 2: the ad revenue dollars. I was just like, yo, let's
Speaker 2: I want to launch a podcast network. I want to
Speaker 2: start my own you know, podcast network called The Black Effect.
Speaker 3: And it didn't make any sense, you know, to go
Speaker 3: anywhere else. You know, even though I.
Speaker 2: Even though I had conversations, even though even though there
Speaker 2: was other conversations had iHeart is the biggest audio publishing
Speaker 2: you know, company in the world. So when I presented
Speaker 2: my vision the iHeart of what I wanted to do.
Speaker 3: They were all in.
Speaker 2: And so I'm a fifty one percent majority owner of
Speaker 2: The Black Effect.
Speaker 3: This isn't a this isn't a vanity label.
Speaker 2: This isn't something you know, Hey, let's just give him
Speaker 2: something and put his name on it, which, by the way,
Speaker 2: and I want to say this, a lot of those
Speaker 2: other companies, that's what they were trying to do. So
Speaker 2: a lot of those other companies, I never told him,
Speaker 2: like what I wanted to name it and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: I just, you know, my agent told them what the
Speaker 2: idea was. And a lot of those other companies wanted
Speaker 2: to do things like that, but they didn't want to
Speaker 2: give me no real ownership.
Speaker 3: They didn't want to give me no real equity. So
Speaker 3: I could have went other places and got like a
Speaker 3: big ass check and had a vanity podcast network, but
Speaker 3: I would have to run everything by them, and they
Speaker 3: would have to have first rider refusal on what I
Speaker 3: could bring in. Like I couldn't be like, yo, let's
Speaker 3: bring in eating while broke.
Speaker 1: They'd be like, well, who is by the way, shout
Speaker 1: out to you for that? I will. I want to
Speaker 1: say such on a couple of things before we wrap. Secretly, No,
Speaker 1: I'm secretly scared of the time because your team is
Speaker 1: like assured me that I make over. One thing I
Speaker 1: wanted to shout out to you is I did I
Speaker 1: you know, I previously did come from the Nick can
Speaker 1: I work with Nick Cannon for like ten plus years
Speaker 1: as a partner and another company. And one of the
Speaker 1: things that I'm not hopefully discratches, but one of the
Speaker 1: things I noticed with being in the industry is male dominated.
Speaker 1: One of the things I love about working with the
Speaker 1: Black Effect Network is that not only is it women
Speaker 1: of color that pretty much run it. I don't even
Speaker 1: know if there's men over there.
Speaker 3: There probably is, but male producers like a king.
Speaker 1: You're right, my producer is a male. But I'm saying
Speaker 1: like the the women are like really running it and
Speaker 1: holding it down. And it's like you could pick up
Speaker 1: the phone. I mean, if I say anything crazy, Dolly
Speaker 1: will call me in three seconds, dn't even end, and
Speaker 1: I immediately know I'm in trouble. But I love how
Speaker 1: it is. But I also love like I always ask
Speaker 1: people like the transparency, So how's he? How is he really?
Speaker 1: You know? And you take good care of them, and
Speaker 1: you don't see that a lot in the industry. I've
Speaker 1: seen more of the opposite, where the men get the
Speaker 1: checks and the women do the work and then the
Speaker 1: women don't get paid and then it's just like eventually
Speaker 1: they die off.
Speaker 2: Man, I don't Black Effect is successful because of Dolly Bishop,
Speaker 2: And you know I knew that.
Speaker 3: It's like, man, God tells me things.
Speaker 2: It's like I always do because Dolly's, you know, a
Speaker 2: family friend like Dolly's that's my homie before it's anything else,
Speaker 2: and so I always do. Like rock Nation is like
Speaker 2: a lot of my blueprint, And if you go to
Speaker 2: rock Nation, it's the same thing, like, you know, Daz
Speaker 2: is in charge, right, There's is the president a woman,
Speaker 2: and there's a lot of other women in position of
Speaker 2: power as well. And you know, I just always think
Speaker 2: I always thought that was so dope because.
Speaker 3: Like, women get things done, I really do.
Speaker 2: I just did, especially black women, women of color, they
Speaker 2: get things done. And so it's like I always knew
Speaker 2: I'm gonna start this entity and I want Dolly to
Speaker 2: run it, like I always knew that.
Speaker 1: Side note, so Dolly during the pandemic, I was doing
Speaker 1: a lot of crazy stuff because my company had shut down,
Speaker 1: and anyways, Dolly had called me and she said, hey,
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about getting taken this job or whatever. I'm
Speaker 1: not too sure. I didn't ask her what it was.
Speaker 1: It was like, yo, girl, if you don't have to
Speaker 1: punch a clock, get a check, they don't like watch
Speaker 1: you every day. What are we even discussing, Like we're
Speaker 1: in the middle of the end times, like take a check,
Speaker 1: you know. And for whatever reason, did not think to
Speaker 1: ask what the job was. You know, whil'n out niked
Speaker 1: pissed off the world with the jew comments, nobody knew
Speaker 1: what the heck was going on. I did not think
Speaker 1: to ask, So then I don't ask. I'm just like
Speaker 1: take the job. Like, what do we discuss Dolly? You
Speaker 1: I've seen Dolly play every hat and she's she's very
Speaker 1: skilled at you don't have to worry about her integrity.
Speaker 1: She can get the job done whatever whatever reason she
Speaker 1: questioned it. So anyways, I'm trying to do eating while broke.
Speaker 1: On the side, I like pitch my friends, like you know,
Speaker 1: all celebrity friends, like yo, I need you to take
Speaker 1: one for the team. And on one of the texts,
Speaker 1: I had said something about like Dolly and then one
Speaker 1: of them was like Dolly, and I guess in Variety
Speaker 1: they had just announced that she was like the president
Speaker 1: of Black I had no idea, right, so I get
Speaker 1: the text and I'm like, yo, Dolly, Yo, I need
Speaker 1: to use her name more, and she's like, what are
Speaker 1: you talking about? She I was like yo, and I
Speaker 1: sent her like the Variety thing like is this the job?
Speaker 3: And like what?
Speaker 1: I was like okay, and she was like and don't
Speaker 1: use my name everywhere and I was like, I'm definitely
Speaker 1: using your name everywhere. And then true story. People always
Speaker 1: ask how I ended up on the Black Effect. I
Speaker 1: had been telling Dolly about eating while broke. So then
Speaker 1: I get a call one day She's like, you're gonna
Speaker 1: kill me. Why would I want to kill you? She's like, oh,
Speaker 1: you be so mad at me. Oh in my head,
Speaker 1: I'm like no. And I had told her like when
Speaker 1: I do eating while broke, like you gotta like we
Speaker 1: gotta put all our hats, all our names, and everyone's
Speaker 1: contacts have to come together, which, by the way, Dolly
Speaker 1: does not like to do. I didn't know that until now.
Speaker 1: But anyway, she calls me, she's like, so I was
Speaker 1: on the phone with iHeart, I s all you guys,
Speaker 1: and I pitched eating while broke and I was like, okay, well,
Speaker 1: what's the bad thing. She was like they loved it,
Speaker 1: and like Charlottage wants to show. And I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: what's the bad news. She's like, what's the podcast? I
Speaker 1: don't care. We need distribution, girl, I take it, like
Speaker 1: what do they need from me? And my in my
Speaker 1: garage was like the eating while broke table Like, I mean,
Speaker 1: my neighbors were driving past me like what is this
Speaker 1: girl up to?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 1: And I'd always tell people like God like somehow aligned
Speaker 1: it because my plan for it was so like minute
Speaker 1: and then you know, accidentally by the share like accident,
Speaker 1: you guys end up in this call and everything happened.
Speaker 1: I think it was beautiful. And every time I see you,
Speaker 1: I always try to make sure you know, like you
Speaker 1: know that I appreciate you took a chance on And
Speaker 1: I remember Dolly coming out to La like, we've never
Speaker 1: seen you in front of the camera, so we're gonna
Speaker 1: we're gonna watch you do it. And then she saw
Speaker 1: me and she was like, this is you. This is
Speaker 1: I was like what. But uh, I hate talking about
Speaker 1: politics because I have my own insecurities. But recently in LA,
Speaker 1: I did interview a congressman and I just kind of
Speaker 1: just was like very transparent about, uh, how much I
Speaker 1: don't know about politics. It's not something I like to
Speaker 1: argue about because I don't know enough facts. I don't
Speaker 1: like to vote because I don't know enough facts. But
Speaker 1: one of the things that I learned in that interview
Speaker 1: is I was talking to my dad and he had
Speaker 1: said something about like how he got all this money
Speaker 1: for like against like you know, the imprison the jail
Speaker 1: system or whatever. My dad had said something like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but how did he spend how is he spending the money?
Speaker 1: And I just didn't think to ask that question. And
Speaker 1: I think, you know, after that interview, after like getting
Speaker 1: that close in person with a congress person and seeing
Speaker 1: like who they are and how they got to where
Speaker 1: they're at, what I'm learning in politics and is that
Speaker 1: government and politics they're they're not necessarily together.
Speaker 2: Well, it depends, I mean, you know, you have I
Speaker 2: think people forget that there's local politics and there's national politics.
Speaker 2: And I think most of the time, most of the time,
Speaker 2: what's happening you know, locally may not be happening nationally.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of things that I see happening, you know, locally,
Speaker 2: places that I wish were.
Speaker 3: You know, happening nationally.
Speaker 2: Like you know, right now, you look at Maryland and
Speaker 2: you look at you know what Wes Moore just did,
Speaker 2: you know, by pardoning I think one hundred and seventy
Speaker 2: five thousand people from mister meaning marijuana convictions. Now, I
Speaker 2: think that's a great start. I think that, you know,
Speaker 2: they could go further. I think that they should pardon.
Speaker 2: If you know, if you're in prison right now in
Speaker 2: a state where marijuana is legal and you're in there,
Speaker 2: for a non violent drug offense. I think you should
Speaker 2: be pardoned, and I think your record should be exponged.
Speaker 2: But I think what what's is doing a great start.
Speaker 2: But I wish that that was the model for nationally
Speaker 2: because President Biden could do that, and for a person
Speaker 2: like President Biden, you know, who was hands on with
Speaker 2: the eighty six mandatory minimum centizen, who was hands on
Speaker 2: with the eighty eight crack laws, who was hands on
Speaker 2: with the ninety four crime bill, that would be a
Speaker 2: good way to atone, you know, for some of those
Speaker 2: for some of that legislation that you created that put
Speaker 2: so many black and brown people away.
Speaker 3: You could with a wave, with a stroke of a pen.
Speaker 2: You don't need nobody else but you to say, if
Speaker 2: you're a non violent drug offender in prison, you should
Speaker 2: be pardoned, and I think your record should be expunged,
Speaker 2: especially you know, marijuana.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, And then I remember when marijuana became illegal,
Speaker 1: it was like anyone that had those those that record
Speaker 1: couldn't even get into the weed business. My dad was
Speaker 1: like very upset, like could you imagine, like you perfected
Speaker 1: this career, You've spent ten years, and now you can't
Speaker 1: even get the LIFs.
Speaker 3: That's right, that's right, I got a license.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we got a dispensary opening in a New Jersey
Speaker 2: called Hashtoria.
Speaker 3: It'll we open this ship. You know.
Speaker 2: It's myself, Ray Con the chef, Bakari Sellers and a
Speaker 2: Jed and Josh Are are two partners who run Hashtoria.
Speaker 2: So we got a dispensary open and know we got
Speaker 2: a dispensary and consumption lone.
Speaker 1: For people that sorry to cut you off on that,
Speaker 1: For people that don't know that much about politics and
Speaker 1: are starting to think about voting, what are the questions
Speaker 1: that you feel they should be asking, like politicians are
Speaker 1: looking for in politicians.
Speaker 2: I tell everybody vote their interests. Like you know, it's
Speaker 2: not hard what people are looking for. I don't care
Speaker 2: if you're black, I don't care if you're white. I
Speaker 2: don't care what your gender is. I don't care what
Speaker 2: your sexuality is. Everybody wants money in safety. Life is about,
Speaker 2: you know, doing something that's going to put you in
Speaker 2: a financial position to create some up with mobility, and
Speaker 2: we just all want to feel safe. So I think
Speaker 2: that you should look, you know, to the elected officials
Speaker 2: who are creating policies who are creating legislation that's putting
Speaker 2: money in people pocket and that's making people safe.
Speaker 3: Like it's really not that hard. It's not that difficult.
Speaker 2: And when you find that person that is doing those things,
Speaker 2: both of.
Speaker 1: Them, Okay, yeah, I think I like that advice. But
Speaker 1: I also I think in the past year, I don't
Speaker 1: trust as many people. I don't blame you, and I'm
Speaker 1: more like, even if I were to date now, I'm like,
Speaker 1: what's your resume looking like? But give me the X numbers?
Speaker 1: Like I don't give it anymore. If you can't give
Speaker 1: me an X number and they say this is then
Speaker 1: I don't want to do it anymore.
Speaker 3: References.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I haven't started dating again yet, but yeah, my
Speaker 1: husband got fired or he's getting fired anyways. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I think like even with Kamala Harris, I heard like
Speaker 1: she was a district attorney that like put a lot
Speaker 1: of people away in her previous Like I'm looking at
Speaker 1: all references, but do you think that matters or no?
Speaker 2: I mean that one was interesting because she was a
Speaker 2: DA doing her job, you know, And I mean that's
Speaker 2: what the laws were, you know at that time.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: I mean, I've definitely seen her pivot, you know, on
Speaker 2: her stance in regards to marijuana. But that's why I
Speaker 2: think people like her, just like people like President Biden,
Speaker 2: should be advocating heavily and not just advocating. They should
Speaker 2: be doing pardon everybody in America on a federal level
Speaker 2: who has a non violent drug offense, especially for marijuana.
Speaker 3: They have the power to do that.
Speaker 1: They have the power to do it. And why do
Speaker 1: you think they're not doing it? Then?
Speaker 3: I don't.
Speaker 2: I mean, nobody's pushing them politically, but that would be
Speaker 2: an amazing thing for both of them to do because
Speaker 2: both of them have those reputations. Both of them have
Speaker 2: you know, those type of records. So it's like, yo,
Speaker 2: do that say that, Hey, y'all, you're changing with the times.
Speaker 2: You know, just you noticed legislation that y'all that that
Speaker 2: was created hurt a lot of people back then. So
Speaker 2: it's just like that is the way you atone, you know,
Speaker 2: for things like that. So I've been saying, I think
Speaker 2: that would be one of the most fantastic political strategies
Speaker 2: that they could do right now, you know, like during
Speaker 2: the especially during an election. Yet like all of this,
Speaker 2: all of this right now is dream selling season. Everybody's pandering.
Speaker 2: Everybody's saying, you know, and that's what's so crazy. Right,
Speaker 2: You're in the White House, so you have power that
Speaker 2: your you know, opponent, Donald Trump does not have, So
Speaker 2: you can actually do things. He can only talk about
Speaker 2: the things he wants to do. So, yes, it is
Speaker 2: dream selling season. Yes, they are pandering to us for
Speaker 2: our vote. And I mean those are the things that
Speaker 2: I think that we should push for them to do,
Speaker 2: because I can you imagine that headline. Imagine you opened
Speaker 2: up your phone and you looked on you know, shade
Speaker 2: Room or whatever whatever it is, you know, and or
Speaker 2: just anything, and it said it said President Biden pardons
Speaker 2: all non violent drug offenders effective immediately or whatever it is.
Speaker 3: Like whoa you know.
Speaker 1: That would that would get even and vote?
Speaker 3: Okay? It rile everybody up.
Speaker 1: All right, Well, what what more can you share with
Speaker 1: us in regards to get honest or die line? We
Speaker 1: haven't already covered.
Speaker 2: It's just a book that I want everybody to read
Speaker 2: because I want to challenge everybody to be the most
Speaker 2: honest version of themselves possible. We have to stop lying
Speaker 2: on ourselves and we have to stop volunteering those lives
Speaker 2: to other people.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: The subtitle is why small talk sucks because I hate
Speaker 2: micro conversations. I think we got to, you know, find
Speaker 2: a way to start having big conversations. I think that
Speaker 2: we have too much, you know, unnecessary small talk, and
Speaker 2: I think that we put small talk and the big
Speaker 2: talk on the same scale, so it feels like everything
Speaker 2: weighs the same when they don't, right, they don't. And
Speaker 2: we don't know how to even have, you know, big conversations.
Speaker 2: We genuinely do not have. We don't even know how
Speaker 2: to discuss big conversations. And that's why America can't ever
Speaker 2: truly solve no problems. You ask me why, you know,
Speaker 2: President Biden doesn't, you know, due to non violent pardon
Speaker 2: the non violent drug offenders. Because nobody's really really having
Speaker 2: that conversation on a big, big level like they should.
Speaker 2: You know, they rather talk about transgenders and sports like
Speaker 2: that ain't affecting nobody's life, like God blessed them, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean.
Speaker 1: But it's definitely like that whome it's a media. In
Speaker 1: your book, you even talked about like how they trade
Speaker 1: the like this Trump did it like to distract.
Speaker 3: The people that's right, that's right.
Speaker 2: And so it's just like your people like we just
Speaker 2: don't know how to discuss what we should be talking about.
Speaker 3: We make minors majors.
Speaker 1: Now, random question, do you think the algorithms play a
Speaker 1: role in dumbing us down?
Speaker 2: One hundred percent? That's why I hate algorithms. That's why
Speaker 2: you have to disconnect. Like I tell people all the time,
Speaker 2: don't be a don't be a surfer, be a wave,
Speaker 2: because surfers have to ride waves the algorithm depending. We
Speaker 2: all ride the wave of whatever algorithm is presented to
Speaker 2: us instead of actually being our own waves. And you know,
Speaker 2: figuring out, man, what is what is it I should
Speaker 2: actually be thinking about in regards to this situation, or
Speaker 2: should I even be thinking about this situation at all?
Speaker 2: Think about things that come across your timeline every day
Speaker 2: that you wasn't even thinking about, but now you can't
Speaker 2: get it off your motherbucker mind just because it came
Speaker 2: across your timeline. And guess what, it really don't even matter.
Speaker 2: It's something so small and so trivial, but.
Speaker 3: You I saw it. I saw them.
Speaker 2: They were arguing a couple of weeks ago about are
Speaker 2: you safer around a man or a bear, and I
Speaker 2: mean and people having in depth conversations about this shit
Speaker 2: on park and I'm like, where the fuck did this
Speaker 2: even come from? Why is this a thing? It's like,
Speaker 2: are you safeer around a man or a bear? How
Speaker 2: about we have conversations about how.
Speaker 1: These conversations blow up Because everyone's so obsessed with viral
Speaker 1: moments and getting the hashtag to get these these numbers up,
Speaker 1: it's become the it's like a chicken in the egg situation.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't I don't be honest with you. I
Speaker 3: don't know what it is. I don't know what makes
Speaker 3: these things go viral.
Speaker 2: I just know that we have to at the end
Speaker 2: of the chapter every chapter, I say lesson discussion because
Speaker 2: we got to start focusing on macros instead of micros,
Speaker 2: Like why are we having conversations about women?
Speaker 3: What are you safe for around a man or a bear?
Speaker 2: How about we just have conversations about how to make
Speaker 2: women safe period? What the fuck bear has got to
Speaker 2: do with it? It's it's just it's just silly to me.
Speaker 2: So it's just like, yeah, I want to just get
Speaker 2: us focused.
Speaker 1: On just the macs, real discussion.
Speaker 3: That's it.
Speaker 1: Get to the real facts and keeping it honest.
Speaker 3: That's it.
Speaker 2: So please go get it, get honest, and die line
Speaker 2: while small talk sucks, available everywhere.
Speaker 1: Uh, check out some of your other books if you
Speaker 1: really want to in depth conversation on Who's Charlemagne is?
Speaker 1: This hour definitely isn't gonna cut it the way I
Speaker 1: would like it. I love that. And one last thing,
Speaker 1: I was thinking about this, and I told Jordan back then,
Speaker 1: I was thinking about doing this. I'm actually thinking about
Speaker 1: hugging a tree. I'm that desperate right now.
Speaker 3: Read I gotta I gotta chapter in my book. Read it.
Speaker 1: I read it. I already read it, and it was like,
Speaker 1: I was like, what five or six minutes? You know
Speaker 1: the tree? He said, the New York trees are different
Speaker 1: from the other trees. I'm still trying to find a tree.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: Chapter is called tree hugged the block, get connected with nature,
Speaker 2: and we don't have to do another show for you.
Speaker 2: It might have to be called like, I don't wanna
Speaker 2: call it dating while desperate, because you're not desperate yet.
Speaker 3: No, you said you're desperate. Just now you said you
Speaker 3: were desperate.
Speaker 1: Desperate, desperate for peace. Peace.
Speaker 3: Oh damnault.
Speaker 1: Just be clear I'm single because well I'm still married,
Speaker 1: and integrity wise, this sounds really silly.
Speaker 3: What about dating while marriage?
Speaker 1: Integrity wise? I should do that integrity wise, I just
Speaker 1: can't do it while I'm legally like in my head,
Speaker 1: I'm like married, and then even if you go on
Speaker 1: a date, it's like, yeah, I'm married, but I'm separated
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna go No.
Speaker 3: A lot of people go to this. I was.
Speaker 2: I just did Pastor Kean's conference last weekend. He has
Speaker 2: a conference called The Crowd Conference, and him and Shannie
Speaker 2: were on stage having this conversation. He felt the same way.
Speaker 2: He felt the same exact way because he was separated.
Speaker 2: But you know, he knew perception wise, dating somebody like
Speaker 2: Shannie O'Neil, he didn't want people to look at her
Speaker 2: away and.
Speaker 3: Say, oh, she's dating this married man.
Speaker 2: But he was going through a separation, and so I
Speaker 2: don't if if I'm fucking this up, I'm sorry passed
Speaker 2: the keon, But I thought I heard him.
Speaker 3: Say he couldn't live like that.
Speaker 2: He still had to just he had to go connect
Speaker 2: with he had to go connect with Shani.
Speaker 3: You know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Oh wait, he couldn't live like what he he connected
Speaker 1: with her? Why No, No, I don't think they he obviously didn't.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just think that he didn't let the fact
Speaker 2: of everybody's perception.
Speaker 3: It's not even about the person. Maybe I'm getting that wrong.
Speaker 1: No, it's not about the perception. I don't care because
Speaker 1: my husband fully admits he's a he's a superhore. But
Speaker 1: I'm it's not the perception at this point. Trust me,
Speaker 1: he's done enough to blow up any type of secrecy.
Speaker 1: But I'm saying that integrity wise. I know in my
Speaker 1: mind I made a commitment, right, So I'm like, yo,
Speaker 1: let me just.
Speaker 2: But you're going through a separation. If I'm not mistaking,
Speaker 2: patter Keyon said he did want He wanted to wait
Speaker 2: because he didn't want people to think that he was
Speaker 2: that that that he was cheating on his wife and
Speaker 2: Shaanie was messing up a happy home. If I'm getting
Speaker 2: that wrong, I'm sorry, pater Keyon, but it sounds very
Speaker 2: similar to me.
Speaker 3: So I think we should.
Speaker 2: Do dating while I'm married with Colleen and have her
Speaker 2: in here interviewing potential candidates.
Speaker 1: Oh that's hilarious, right to this person, they said, because.
Speaker 2: There's no better reference check than putting somebody out there publicly,
Speaker 2: because not even like, oh no I know him, go
Speaker 2: I dated him. Now that people will be hitting you up.
Speaker 2: They can't hide hilarious dating while married. Dolly, let's do it.
Speaker 1: No, no, let's but I will say the reason why
Speaker 1: I want to hug the tree and stuff is because
Speaker 1: I do feel. And I was telling Jordan, it's the
Speaker 1: older I get, the more I am driven towards happiness
Speaker 1: or I mean peace over happiness. I could care less
Speaker 1: about a high when I know the low can come
Speaker 1: around the corner. I just give me a flat line.
Speaker 1: And I used to never be like that. So when
Speaker 1: I saw the tree hugging, Dolly made me do grounded
Speaker 1: because I ran away to her house. At one point
Speaker 1: I short it and she was like, take off your shoes,
Speaker 1: go in the yard and walk in the grass. And
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, Dolly, I'm saying I did it,
Speaker 1: but I'm like, maybe we could try a tree huggain.
Speaker 1: I'm starting to get into like meditating. Well I haven't started.
Speaker 1: I've been reading books about meditation. I'm that desperate to
Speaker 1: do those things. Not day, I think I deserve a
Speaker 1: nice break of being single. But we can play the
Speaker 1: dating show.
Speaker 2: If you want.
Speaker 3: I like it.
Speaker 1: You're hilarious. Thank you so much for your time. I bagged, borrowed, stealed,
Speaker 1: harassed your entire team to the point that Dolly called
Speaker 1: me and said, if you want shar just call me
Speaker 1: and asked me when you're ready. And I did it
Speaker 1: and she delivered it, and I was literally like, oh,
Speaker 1: she did it.
Speaker 3: I'm happy to be here. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1: Thank you for I get to keep it. You get
Speaker 1: to keep it, all right.
Speaker 4: Peace out, guys.
Speaker 1: For more eating while broke from iHeartRadio and The Black Effect,
Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.