WEBVTT - "A Fine Line Between Stupid and Clever: The Story of Spinal Tap" with Rob Reiner and Michael McKean 0:00:01.120 --> 0:00:04.360 Hi there here say listeners, ed helms here. I wanted 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:07.600 to add this short prologue to the episode because I 0:00:07.640 --> 0:00:12.640 want to acknowledge a difficult situation. Since recording this conversation 0:00:12.760 --> 0:00:15.400 with Rob Reiner and Michael McKeon just a couple of 0:00:15.400 --> 0:00:19.360 weeks ago, Rob and his wife Michelle have passed away 0:00:19.680 --> 0:00:24.160 under very sudden and very tragic circumstances. I want to 0:00:24.200 --> 0:00:28.840 extend my deepest, heartfelt condolences to their family and all 0:00:28.880 --> 0:00:32.320 of those who loved them or were lucky enough to 0:00:32.320 --> 0:00:37.159 be loved by them. Rob meant so much to so 0:00:37.360 --> 0:00:40.920 many people, and I count myself among them. He was 0:00:40.960 --> 0:00:43.320 a hero of mine, and I don't mean that in 0:00:43.360 --> 0:00:47.840 an abstract way, but in a very real and literal way, 0:00:48.080 --> 0:00:52.000 in the way that certain artists shape you and sometimes 0:00:52.040 --> 0:00:54.120 even before you realize it's happening. 0:00:55.280 --> 0:00:57.040 Many of his classic movies. 0:00:56.760 --> 0:00:59.960 Emerged just as I was coming of age through the eighties. 0:01:00.640 --> 0:01:04.480 This is Spinal Tap, The Princess Bride, When Harry met Sally, Misery, 0:01:04.520 --> 0:01:08.240 and perhaps most of all, stand by Me. These movies 0:01:08.280 --> 0:01:13.840 they didn't just entertain me. They helped form my storytelling 0:01:14.000 --> 0:01:19.520 and comedy identity, my sense of flow and tone, my 0:01:19.680 --> 0:01:24.120 love of difficult but redeemable characters. Rob Reiner taught me 0:01:24.160 --> 0:01:27.839 that hard laughs and deep humanity can sit right next 0:01:27.840 --> 0:01:32.440 to one another, and they very often should. But he 0:01:32.560 --> 0:01:36.319 wasn't just a creative inspiration. He was also a human inspiration. 0:01:36.480 --> 0:01:39.039 He was the kind of person you both wanted to 0:01:39.040 --> 0:01:43.280 be and wanted to be around. He was warm and generous, 0:01:43.840 --> 0:01:51.000 gregarious and curious, a legendary conversationalist, and also deeply engaged 0:01:51.040 --> 0:01:54.320 in social issues. He cared about making the world a 0:01:54.360 --> 0:02:00.920 better place, about cultural values, democracy and political integrity. Rob 0:02:00.960 --> 0:02:05.320 had a conscience, and he put it to work. Listening 0:02:05.400 --> 0:02:07.960 back to this conversation, now, what really jumps out. 0:02:07.880 --> 0:02:09.720 At me is how much fun he's having. 0:02:09.960 --> 0:02:15.040 He's engaged, playful, generous with his insights, and clearly still 0:02:15.280 --> 0:02:20.040 delighted by the work even after a lifetime of extraordinary achievement. 0:02:21.600 --> 0:02:23.919 I'm incredibly grateful that I had this time with him, 0:02:23.960 --> 0:02:26.000 and I'm honored to share this conversation with you. 0:02:26.080 --> 0:02:26.920 Now. 0:02:27.160 --> 0:02:30.520 This episode is, in our own small way, a celebration 0:02:30.600 --> 0:02:35.160 of Rob Reiner. He will be profoundly missed, but his voice, 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:38.480 his humor, and his spirit will always be with us, 0:02:38.880 --> 0:02:43.280 and that is quite a gift. I hope you enjoy 0:02:43.360 --> 0:02:50.880 the episode. Welcome to Earsay, the iHeart and Audible Audio 0:02:50.880 --> 0:02:53.919 Book Club. I'm Ed Helms and I am the host 0:02:54.280 --> 0:02:57.880 of another podcast called Snaffo and with Me is the 0:02:57.919 --> 0:03:01.880 host of yet another podcast. Here we go again, my 0:03:02.280 --> 0:03:03.600 dear buddy cal Pen. 0:03:03.919 --> 0:03:08.200 Hello, sir, how are you servain? I'm great, I'm great, 0:03:08.720 --> 0:03:09.440 You are great? 0:03:09.480 --> 0:03:12.280 Can I just say cal Pen is great? Everybody? 0:03:12.320 --> 0:03:15.000 Come on, what a nice thing to say. 0:03:15.160 --> 0:03:20.440 I mean, you're freaking funny and delightful and incredibly smart 0:03:20.440 --> 0:03:23.840 and insightful. And that's that's a killer combination of traits. 0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:27.720 I'm glad I don't have these traits at age eleven. Again, 0:03:28.440 --> 0:03:31.240 they were not helpful as an eleven year old, but 0:03:31.639 --> 0:03:33.200 I do enjoy them as an adult. 0:03:33.760 --> 0:03:38.600 Yeah, yeah, that's not uncommon. A precocious child is actually 0:03:38.680 --> 0:03:42.960 a very charming adults. But man, man, are they annoying. 0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:50.560 I'm sorry to have dug up that trauma. All right, 0:03:50.560 --> 0:03:52.880 I'm gonna name some names here. I want you to 0:03:52.920 --> 0:03:56.120 tell me what these names have in common? Are you ready? 0:03:56.200 --> 0:03:56.440 Yep? 0:03:57.880 --> 0:04:06.560 Eric Stumpy, Joe Child, Peter James Bond, Mick Shrimpton, Richard Rick, Shrimpton, 0:04:07.120 --> 0:04:11.800 Joe Mama Besser and Scott Skippy Scuffleton. 0:04:13.120 --> 0:04:16.159 More than half sound familiar, and I honestly cannot place it. 0:04:17.520 --> 0:04:23.119 Okay, these are all drummers from the band Spinal Tap, 0:04:23.880 --> 0:04:29.320 who all met their very untimely demise. In the Spinal 0:04:29.400 --> 0:04:33.640 Tap lore there was a bizarre gardening accident. There was 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:38.960 I believe some one of them spontaneously combusted, rather dramatic. 0:04:39.720 --> 0:04:42.360 This is Spinal Tap is, of course, the pioneering nineteen 0:04:42.400 --> 0:04:46.680 eighty four mockumentary created by Rob Reiner and starring Reiner 0:04:46.720 --> 0:04:50.400 along with Christopher Guest, Harry Shearer, and Michael McKeon. It 0:04:50.600 --> 0:04:54.760 spoofs the over the top world of rock and roll 0:04:54.839 --> 0:04:58.280 and heavy metal in the seventies and eighties, and it 0:04:58.320 --> 0:05:03.360 also spoofs the documentaries that venerate these rock stars. Kl 0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:07.359 do you remember watching Spinal Tap a very very long 0:05:07.440 --> 0:05:09.599 time ago? And I should also note it was like 0:05:09.640 --> 0:05:12.680 one of those two am in college kind of things. Yeah, 0:05:12.720 --> 0:05:17.159 kind of viewerships of course, huge Chris Guest Rob Reiner fan. 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:18.320 But it has been a while. 0:05:18.560 --> 0:05:19.520 I need to revisit. 0:05:20.560 --> 0:05:23.119 Yeah, I have to say, Rob Reiner and Christopher Guest 0:05:23.240 --> 0:05:26.120 and all these guys. They live in a very special 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:31.320 comedy universe, and it's so fun to learn about all 0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:33.800 of their history together and how their lives kind of 0:05:33.839 --> 0:05:37.839 interweave and overlap. And then of course Spinal Tap is 0:05:37.880 --> 0:05:43.360 its own ecosystem, like they've created an entire mythology around 0:05:43.440 --> 0:05:48.000 this totally fake band, and it is just beyond hilarious, 0:05:48.120 --> 0:05:49.520 and I have to say it's very much a part 0:05:49.520 --> 0:05:53.120 of my own comedy development. Listeners, if you haven't seen 0:05:53.120 --> 0:05:55.800 the original nineteen eighty four movie, you should definitely just 0:05:55.839 --> 0:05:58.880 stop right now and go see it. It is so 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:05.560 damn and hilarious. But as a refresher, Rob Reiner plays 0:06:06.200 --> 0:06:10.600 Marty de Berghie, a documentary filmmaker who follows the fictional 0:06:10.600 --> 0:06:15.080 band Spinal Tap. Portrayed by Christopher Guest, Michael McKeon and 0:06:15.160 --> 0:06:18.320 Harry Shearer. Marty follows Spinal Tap and what I would 0:06:18.320 --> 0:06:23.800 call a series of escalating mishaps. It's definitely a cult movie, 0:06:24.200 --> 0:06:26.799 but one that has left a huge mark on pop culture, 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:29.640 not the least of which is the Christopher guest line 0:06:29.920 --> 0:06:32.680 These go Out to eleven, a version of which made 0:06:32.680 --> 0:06:36.000 it into the Shorter Oxford English Dictionary in two thousand 0:06:36.000 --> 0:06:36.320 and two. 0:06:36.839 --> 0:06:38.320 That's an accomplishment right there. 0:06:38.560 --> 0:06:40.080 Yeah, I know, it's pretty cool if you can like 0:06:40.120 --> 0:06:45.640 affect the codified language. I also have to say this 0:06:45.680 --> 0:06:51.359 movie is widely considered the original mainstream mockumentary, and that 0:06:51.480 --> 0:06:56.000 of course spawned a vast ecosystem of great movies and television, 0:06:56.040 --> 0:06:59.880 including all of Christopher Guests subsequent movies like Best in 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:04.159 Show and Waiting for Guffman and so many other great ones, 0:07:04.440 --> 0:07:06.400 and then of course the show I worked on, The 0:07:06.400 --> 0:07:09.520 Office That was a mockumidating, right. I fe like The 0:07:09.600 --> 0:07:13.040 Office and Parks and Rec and all these great mockumentary 0:07:13.080 --> 0:07:17.160 shows are descendants of Spinal Tap in a way. 0:07:17.280 --> 0:07:20.480 That must have been awesome. Then to have loved Spinal 0:07:20.520 --> 0:07:22.200 Tap so much and then get to work on The 0:07:22.200 --> 0:07:25.080 Office in I don't know if saying in the style 0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:28.239 of is even correct, but like, that's so cool. 0:07:29.080 --> 0:07:31.880 It was The Office was a dream in so many, 0:07:32.160 --> 0:07:35.880 so many ways, which is a whole conversation for another day. 0:07:36.000 --> 0:07:40.600 But today we're talking about the new audio book A 0:07:40.640 --> 0:07:45.160 Fine Line Between Stupid and Clever, the Story of Spinal Tap. 0:07:45.680 --> 0:07:48.600 It's written by Rob Reiner with Christopher Guest, Harry Sheer 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:52.520 and Michael McKeon and voiced by Rob Reiner, although they 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:56.040 all appear in the audio book as well. It's a 0:07:56.120 --> 0:07:59.280 history of how the movie and the band came together, 0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:03.360 the film Unexpected Afterlife, and how forty years later everyone 0:08:03.600 --> 0:08:07.680 got the band back together for the sequel, which is 0:08:07.840 --> 0:08:11.760 out now. It's called Spinal Tap two. The end continues, 0:08:12.200 --> 0:08:14.240 I mean, come on, is that not the best title ever? 0:08:14.440 --> 0:08:14.920 It's great. 0:08:15.120 --> 0:08:19.360 The audiobook also includes an in universe oral history featuring 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:23.280 all the actors as their respective characters. It's called Smell 0:08:23.400 --> 0:08:27.400 the Book for the uninitiated. That's a bit of wordplay 0:08:27.440 --> 0:08:31.000 on one of Spinal TAP's albums from within the movie, 0:08:31.040 --> 0:08:36.839 called Smell the Glove, and what that means God only knows. 0:08:37.200 --> 0:08:40.960 But this is an absolutely ridiculous and delightful and wonderful 0:08:41.000 --> 0:08:43.880 component of the audiobook, and it features all of the 0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:47.280 main players just doing their over the top stick cal 0:08:47.440 --> 0:08:49.920 I'm super excited for this one. I get to talk 0:08:49.960 --> 0:08:54.360 to not one, but two of the core people who 0:08:54.400 --> 0:08:58.800 made Spinal Tap, and this audiobook happen incredible. 0:08:58.880 --> 0:09:01.280 I am jealous. So I'm just going to get out 0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:03.360 of here and we'll talk again after the interview's over. 0:09:03.600 --> 0:09:10.360 All right, I'll see you later. Now here to get 0:09:10.360 --> 0:09:13.120 into a fine line between stupid and clever. The story 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:17.160 of Spinal Tap is the audiobooks author and voice Spinal Tap, 0:09:17.240 --> 0:09:21.319 creator and director and co star director of stand By Me, 0:09:21.920 --> 0:09:25.280 When Harry Met Sally, The Princess Bride, and so many 0:09:25.360 --> 0:09:30.960 more great movies. Rob Reiner also joining the show. One 0:09:30.960 --> 0:09:34.120 of the great comedic actors of all time. He is, 0:09:34.200 --> 0:09:36.839 of course, in the movie Spinal Tap, as well as 0:09:36.840 --> 0:09:37.480 Spinal Tap. 0:09:37.559 --> 0:09:38.559 The end continues. 0:09:39.160 --> 0:09:43.200 He's incredible in the great show Better Call Saul. He's 0:09:43.240 --> 0:09:46.679 in other movies like Best in Show, and just an 0:09:46.840 --> 0:09:52.440 overwhelming resume of tremendous comedy over so many decades. Rob 0:09:52.480 --> 0:09:56.280 Reiner and Michael McKeon, welcome to ear say, it is 0:09:56.840 --> 0:09:59.959 truly such a pleasure to have you join our audio 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:01.160 book club today. 0:10:01.559 --> 0:10:04.280 It's a pleasure to be here. Ed nice to be giant. 0:10:04.920 --> 0:10:08.480 Well, of course, Uh, you are part of the incredible 0:10:08.520 --> 0:10:15.679 team behind Spinal Tap. Rob, you directed that legendary movie. Michael, 0:10:15.800 --> 0:10:19.200 you are part of the band. This is such a 0:10:19.200 --> 0:10:22.120 thrill for me because that movie means so much to me. 0:10:22.240 --> 0:10:25.560 I remember it came out in nineteen eighty four. I 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:28.560 was ten years old. I was not aware of it then, 0:10:29.240 --> 0:10:33.040 but very soon after when it landed at Blockbuster Video, 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:37.760 I was like, I'd been hearing about this from the 0:10:37.800 --> 0:10:40.120 older kids at school, and like, this is a thing 0:10:40.120 --> 0:10:42.400 I had to and I got it. I forced my 0:10:42.520 --> 0:10:44.080 dad to rent it for me, and he was like, 0:10:44.080 --> 0:10:46.200 what the hell is this? He was looking at the 0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:50.720 hard rock picture on the front, and he's like, what what? Okay, fine, 0:10:51.240 --> 0:10:53.839 and we get home, we start watching it, and I'll 0:10:53.880 --> 0:10:56.520 be honest, as like a twelve year old at that time, 0:10:56.640 --> 0:10:58.960 I don't think I got half of it. 0:10:59.320 --> 0:11:02.160 I got half of it. Yeah, you got exactly half 0:11:02.200 --> 0:11:03.679 of it, and we know which half. 0:11:03.840 --> 0:11:08.600 Yeah, But my dad was howling, he was yeah, And 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:11.200 I realized, like, this is important, this is something I 0:11:11.240 --> 0:11:13.240 have to lad down to, and so of course I 0:11:13.400 --> 0:11:16.160 just rewatched it over the years, and it's become very 0:11:16.240 --> 0:11:20.400 much a part of my comedy. DNA truly, and I 0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:21.520 want to thank you for that. 0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:24.360 Dannata, our pleasure. You're totally welcome. 0:11:25.480 --> 0:11:28.040 Do either of you have a favorite scene from the movie. 0:11:28.080 --> 0:11:31.120 I mean, that's an impossible question, but do you does 0:11:31.120 --> 0:11:31.880 something jump out? 0:11:32.520 --> 0:11:33.760 I used to say. 0:11:33.559 --> 0:11:35.480 That my favorite thing because I had nothing to do 0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:38.760 with it, and it's brilliant. It's about a minute and 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:40.720 a half, maybe two minutes. Rob could Robbie tell me 0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:44.720 of Chris just soloing on the stage with you know, 0:11:44.800 --> 0:11:47.280 with all the feedback, and then the violin, and. 0:11:47.559 --> 0:11:50.600 My favorite moment in that moment is he picks up 0:11:50.640 --> 0:11:53.720 the violin and uses it again, you know, but then 0:11:54.040 --> 0:11:58.440 at one moment he just tools a little the peg. Yeah, 0:11:58.559 --> 0:12:00.400 just tunes a peg a little bit too to get 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:01.640 it just right. It's it. 0:12:01.640 --> 0:12:05.040 It's great pantomime, noisy pantomime. I guess you'd call it. 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:09.600 It's fabulous. Well, my favorite, my favorite scene, and it's 0:12:09.840 --> 0:12:13.120 become the title of the book that we that we 0:12:13.320 --> 0:12:16.160 put out called a fine Line between Stupid and Clever, 0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:18.800 And my favorite line in the movie is a fine 0:12:18.840 --> 0:12:21.360 line between stupid and clever. And it's a scene where 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:25.520 Spinal Tap is their gig has just been canceled, and 0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:28.520 they were sitting in the hotel and the lobby there, 0:12:28.760 --> 0:12:32.480 and all of a sudden, this very big famous rock musician, 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:35.920 Duke Fame, walks in and they say hello, and he's 0:12:35.920 --> 0:12:38.160 a big shot and he's got a manager played by 0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:41.320 Howard Hessman, and Howard says, listen, I wish I could 0:12:41.640 --> 0:12:44.880 talk to you guys, but I have to go in 0:12:44.960 --> 0:12:47.400 the lobby and wait for the limo. I don't have 0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:49.920 time to talk. I love that. And then he leaves, 0:12:50.280 --> 0:12:53.400 and then everybody says, what a wanker that Duke Fam. 0:12:53.480 --> 0:12:56.000 He's a wanker. There we used to he used to 0:12:56.080 --> 0:12:58.960 open for us. He people booh with. He was terrible. 0:12:59.200 --> 0:13:02.920 And then the manager says, I don't understand Dupe Fame's 0:13:02.920 --> 0:13:05.000 got it because they had an album that they couldn't 0:13:05.000 --> 0:13:08.160 release called Smell the Glove, which had a sexist cover 0:13:08.240 --> 0:13:10.080 and they couldn't release it. And he says, well, I 0:13:10.200 --> 0:13:14.040 understand dupe Fame. He has an album cover where he's 0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:17.320 naked and there's all these women that are whipping him 0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:20.800 and something. And then Tony Hendrew plays the matter says, well, 0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:24.880 you don't understand the difference is he's the victim. See 0:13:24.880 --> 0:13:28.559 in your album, she's the victim because she's on all 0:13:28.679 --> 0:13:32.040 fours and she's being made to sniff a glove. And 0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:34.760 then the guys are like they're puzzled. Here's oh, I 0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:37.320 see what they did. There's a twist they turned around 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:40.480 and one guy says, yeah, there's a fine line between stupid, 0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:44.040 and then Harry says and clever. And I love that 0:13:44.160 --> 0:13:47.360 and to me, that's the essence of spinal top, fine 0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:50.040 line between stupid and clever. I think you're right. 0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:53.520 And it's also something that happened on the moment. It 0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:56.760 happened conversational. I mean, the entire film is improvised, but 0:13:57.320 --> 0:13:59.160 it was one of those things we were all kind 0:13:59.200 --> 0:14:01.959 of thinking on this same track and it just kind 0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:02.880 of spilled out, right. 0:14:03.080 --> 0:14:06.200 Yeah. And it's interesting because we shot the film with 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:09.319 one camera. We shot maybe a scene two or three times. 0:14:09.800 --> 0:14:13.600 And it because, like Michael says, it's improvised. You don't 0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:16.040 know what's gonna come out on what's you know, it's 0:14:16.080 --> 0:14:17.760 not going to be matched. It's not going to write 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:20.000 like a script when you say the same things, so 0:14:20.080 --> 0:14:23.160 different things would come out. And in that case, the punchline, 0:14:23.200 --> 0:14:26.840 which is Harry saying and clever is off camera. Now 0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:30.480 you normally would you know, you'd focus on that, Yeah, 0:14:30.520 --> 0:14:32.200 you pick it up. But we found this in the 0:14:32.240 --> 0:14:34.440 cutting room and I said, well that works in the 0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:37.160 tracks and so and it works. The joke works even 0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:39.040 though the Punchline's not on camera. 0:14:39.360 --> 0:14:43.320 It's the title of this book and audiobook, And I 0:14:43.320 --> 0:14:47.560 think you're right. It captures not only what's so fun 0:14:47.760 --> 0:14:50.640 about the spirit of the movie, but also to me, 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:55.400 what you have done as the creators of Spinal Tap 0:14:56.040 --> 0:15:02.600 is to create these characters that are so oh. 0:15:01.640 --> 0:15:05.600 Beautifully stupid, thank you. 0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:11.479 They're right at this sort of like nexus of confidence, 0:15:11.680 --> 0:15:17.360 obliviousness and stupidity. But to execute that and to improvise 0:15:17.400 --> 0:15:24.800 that with such precision and consistency takes a profound cleverness. 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:27.880 Well, we had our work cut out for us, because 0:15:28.000 --> 0:15:31.240 the people we were doing, the people we were embodying, 0:15:31.760 --> 0:15:35.000 take themselves very very seriously, of course, and if you 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:38.320 do that, if you're on the level, that's where the 0:15:38.360 --> 0:15:42.040 funny comes from. Because there's something about the audacity of 0:15:42.080 --> 0:15:45.680 someone who's got a very dim bulb up here telling 0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:50.160 everyone else what's what, and also their philosophies of life 0:15:50.280 --> 0:15:52.480 and how deep and profound they are. Yeah. 0:15:52.560 --> 0:15:56.320 Yeah, what's wonderful is we have, you know, these great 0:15:56.320 --> 0:16:00.240 albums where you know, rock and roll creation and all 0:16:00.280 --> 0:16:03.480 these very high falutin ideas about these guys thinking about 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:06.280 how they've really got a grasp of the way the 0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:09.440 world works and the universe works. And to be honest, 0:16:09.760 --> 0:16:11.600 you know, there were a lot of heavy metal rock 0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:14.520 musicians that were very upset with us because they did 0:16:14.560 --> 0:16:17.520 take themselves seriously and they're making fun of us. You know, 0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:20.760 that's not right. You know, we really do make great 0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:23.040 music and all this stuff, and they do make great music, 0:16:23.280 --> 0:16:26.200 but it's not as high fallutine as they think it is. 0:16:26.200 --> 0:16:28.840 Isn't that the sort of highest compliment though? Doesn't that 0:16:28.880 --> 0:16:32.480 mean that you've really punched the button if they're feeling 0:16:32.520 --> 0:16:36.400 a little agitated at the parody of self importance? 0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:39.440 Yeah, I think so, And a lot of them over 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:42.720 time got to really dig it. Sure. I mean they 0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:45.360 accepted it and they said, oh, this is really cool 0:16:45.560 --> 0:16:47.320 and they love the fact that we were making fun, 0:16:47.440 --> 0:16:49.400 ye know, sincere Form of Flattery and all that. 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:52.320 So I had heard that. I've read about some of 0:16:52.320 --> 0:16:55.640 the blowback at the time from people like Ozzy Osbourne 0:16:55.680 --> 0:16:59.120 and Steven Tyler. How real was that? I mean, did 0:16:59.120 --> 0:17:02.920 they hold grudge for years? Was this something that affected 0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:03.600 your lives? 0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:06.919 Well, here's the thing. Blowback used to be a different 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:11.359 sized animal than it is now. We encountered Steven Tyler 0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:14.040 and this was his thing. It was like too close, 0:17:14.600 --> 0:17:18.159 too close, and he would smile a little bit, but 0:17:18.240 --> 0:17:19.600 mainly it was like this hurts. 0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:20.240 It's so close. 0:17:20.320 --> 0:17:22.760 Yes, and we heard that Ozzie isn't didn't like it, 0:17:22.800 --> 0:17:23.920 but it was the same thing. It was like I 0:17:23.960 --> 0:17:27.119 felt uncomfortable, yeah, because I felt spied on. But that 0:17:27.280 --> 0:17:29.840 came down as they didn't like it, right, and it's 0:17:29.880 --> 0:17:33.159 like nonsense. I met Ozzie years later and he was 0:17:33.760 --> 0:17:35.960 adored the movie and he was great about it. But 0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:39.520 now it's like somebody says anything and you'll get thirty 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:40.600 thousand people. 0:17:40.320 --> 0:17:41.720 Said did you hear that? 0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:42.360 Yeah? 0:17:42.440 --> 0:17:44.760 Yeah, yeah, So it's a different world. I mean, the 0:17:44.760 --> 0:17:47.880 same thing happened with actual Rose and then Slash basically 0:17:48.000 --> 0:17:50.119 said to him, Oh, it's funny they're making it, and 0:17:50.200 --> 0:17:52.320 then Axl Rose, Oh yeah, I see, I get what 0:17:52.320 --> 0:17:55.840 they're doing. And same thing. When I first met Sting, 0:17:56.400 --> 0:17:58.720 he was just you know, hitting with the police and everything, 0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:01.359 and he said, a listen, I watched this movie over 0:18:01.400 --> 0:18:04.160 and over. I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Yeah, 0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:05.800 you know. I mean so that was like, you know, 0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:07.160 a great compliment. 0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:10.280 The movie is affectionate and this is what I think 0:18:10.359 --> 0:18:16.000 elevates certain comedy from other comedy. You're not really punching down. 0:18:16.080 --> 0:18:19.840 There's a genuine affection for these characters, as oblivious as 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:22.600 they are and as self important as they are, and 0:18:22.760 --> 0:18:26.239 you're sort of having fun with their hubris. But I 0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:28.720 never felt like there was ridicule baked in there. 0:18:28.800 --> 0:18:31.399 And we we're the first generation that grew up on 0:18:31.520 --> 0:18:33.680 rock and rolls right in the fifties, and we love 0:18:33.760 --> 0:18:36.080 rock and rolls. Of course, we all grew up with that, 0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:39.280 so you know, it was a love of the music 0:18:39.359 --> 0:18:42.600 and also could find what's funny about it too, exactly, 0:18:42.640 --> 0:18:44.359 So you know, you try to mix those things. 0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:49.199 So when you're sixteen, your favorite band is printed on 0:18:49.240 --> 0:18:50.360 your forehead. 0:18:50.240 --> 0:18:51.520 And it's like it's who you. 0:18:51.440 --> 0:18:54.040 Are, and every article of clothing that you wear, that's right, 0:18:54.080 --> 0:18:55.600 that's right, and it's all about that. 0:18:55.840 --> 0:18:57.840 And it's like you look at yourself, what a stupid 0:18:57.920 --> 0:19:01.960 kid I was? And boy I was happy. Yeah, I 0:19:02.000 --> 0:19:04.359 love the music. So I was been listening to the 0:19:04.440 --> 0:19:08.560 Kinks a lot lately. That's kind of my pet third band. 0:19:08.640 --> 0:19:11.359 You know, everybody loved the Beatles, everybody loved the Who 0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:14.200 and the Stones and all that but the Kinks were 0:19:14.200 --> 0:19:15.040 always like so. 0:19:15.160 --> 0:19:15.960 On the money to me. 0:19:16.800 --> 0:19:19.440 And I know I wasn't an English guy, you know 0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:21.160 from Muswell Hill. 0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:22.800 I was this American kid. 0:19:23.200 --> 0:19:26.800 But there's something about those days which when you're sixteen, 0:19:26.880 --> 0:19:30.000 that's what you do. You take on that coloration, you know, 0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:32.240 and it stays with or it stays with me. I 0:19:32.280 --> 0:19:33.600 showed no signs of growing up. 0:19:33.640 --> 0:19:34.040 Amen. 0:19:34.280 --> 0:19:36.440 But I just bought A King's album about a week ago, 0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:38.240 so you know, there you go. 0:19:38.960 --> 0:19:40.760 You know, one time I was at this party once 0:19:41.000 --> 0:19:44.600 for Nick Polgie was his birthday, ninetieth birthday party. And 0:19:44.640 --> 0:19:49.520 his stepson, Max is a musician. He's a guitarist. Now 0:19:49.520 --> 0:19:51.719 he plays with Taylor Swift, but he was with Kesha. 0:19:51.800 --> 0:19:54.440 He's played with a lot of different bands. Nick says 0:19:54.440 --> 0:19:56.800 to me, you know, he's got a spinal tap tattoo 0:19:56.840 --> 0:20:00.199 on his back. No, really, get out of here. I 0:20:00.240 --> 0:20:03.520 go over to him and I said, Max, Nick told 0:20:03.520 --> 0:20:06.040 me that you have a spiral tattooth. He takes down 0:20:06.080 --> 0:20:09.560 his shirt and in the back he has the cover 0:20:09.720 --> 0:20:13.680 of Shark Sandwich tattooed to his back, which is the 0:20:13.960 --> 0:20:17.639 sandwich with a little fin coming out of the Wow. Yeah. 0:20:17.680 --> 0:20:20.600 So yeah, So you talk about having your favorite band 0:20:20.640 --> 0:20:24.240 tattooed to your forehead. He literally had a tattoo. 0:20:25.240 --> 0:20:26.840 All right, I want to talk a little bit about 0:20:26.880 --> 0:20:34.199 the creative process. The audiobook details Schnedling tell us what 0:20:34.400 --> 0:20:37.919 exactly that is and the role it plays in the 0:20:38.000 --> 0:20:41.600 sort of writing and execution or even in the origin 0:20:41.720 --> 0:20:42.679 of the movie. 0:20:43.000 --> 0:20:46.880 That's a term that Chris guessed first throughout long time ago. 0:20:47.359 --> 0:20:50.680 He referred to the back and forth of improvisation as 0:20:51.040 --> 0:20:53.840 you're snadling with each other. You just kind of riffing, 0:20:54.119 --> 0:20:54.920 riffing with each other. 0:20:54.960 --> 0:20:58.119 You know where that where that what that word means 0:20:58.160 --> 0:21:00.000 exactly or where it can It's a made up word, 0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:00.720 just a made up word. 0:21:00.760 --> 0:21:03.320 Okay, here's a great story. You got you like this. 0:21:04.080 --> 0:21:06.960 So we've been trying there's a guy in prison in 0:21:06.960 --> 0:21:09.959 in that's not the funny part, not so far, not 0:21:10.000 --> 0:21:12.840 so far. But there's a guy in prison in Texas. 0:21:12.840 --> 0:21:15.080 His name is Nan and Williams. And this guy has 0:21:15.119 --> 0:21:17.240 been in we've been trying to get out for a 0:21:17.280 --> 0:21:19.600 long time. He's a great guy. He's in there for 0:21:19.880 --> 0:21:23.960 crime he didn't commit. He's got three master's degrees, he's 0:21:23.960 --> 0:21:28.760 written books, he teaches all these young inmates, and he 0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:31.160 asked me, he said, you know, I send me a book, 0:21:31.200 --> 0:21:33.200 send me one of the books, you know, fine line 0:21:33.240 --> 0:21:35.920 between stupid. So I sent him the book. We talked 0:21:35.920 --> 0:21:38.160 about it and he read some You know, these kids, 0:21:38.160 --> 0:21:40.000 they don't know who's spiled happens. They don't know who 0:21:40.040 --> 0:21:41.720 I am, they don't know any of it, but they're 0:21:41.760 --> 0:21:44.640 listening to it and they picked up on schnadling. Says, hey, 0:21:44.640 --> 0:21:47.120 what's that We stopped, and they start, we gotta start 0:21:47.119 --> 0:21:50.960 snadling with each other. So you got these prisoners down 0:21:51.000 --> 0:21:55.520 and down in Houston snadling. I love it. That's awesome. 0:21:55.920 --> 0:21:57.560 That's therapeutic for sure. 0:21:57.720 --> 0:21:59.560 Oh man, that's fantastic. Yeah. 0:21:59.640 --> 0:22:04.520 Yeah, So schnadling is essentially improvisation. There's an anecdote in 0:22:04.600 --> 0:22:08.119