WEBVTT - 308: Vermont Is For Lovers, Too w/ Shonda Rhimes 0:00:00.440 --> 0:00:03.120 Unpacking the Toolbox is a production of Shondaland Audio in 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:21.720 partnership with iHeartRadio. 0:00:20.320 --> 0:00:27.720 The sand Watch, Yaz and Katie Wells. 0:00:32.400 --> 0:00:36.879 We do this stream of consciousness thing sometimes randomly for 0:00:37.280 --> 0:00:40.479 episodes of Unpacking the Toolbox. We learned it from the 0:00:40.520 --> 0:00:43.559 lovely Hanna Simone because we did a crossover episode on 0:00:43.680 --> 0:00:46.440 her New Girl podcast and she did ours, and she 0:00:46.560 --> 0:00:50.599 did this freaking fun ass thing where she just she 0:00:50.680 --> 0:00:52.919 was like, I did a stream of consciouness consciousness while 0:00:52.920 --> 0:00:55.400 I was watching the episode, and she just wrote down 0:00:55.480 --> 0:00:57.760 what popped into her head while she was watching the episode, 0:00:57.760 --> 0:00:59.720 and me and Katie fell in love with it. And 0:00:59.760 --> 0:01:02.160 this is the first time I'm doing it about a 0:01:02.160 --> 0:01:05.640 person and not an episode. So but also like reading 0:01:05.720 --> 0:01:09.520 it back Katie, I was like, this is giving me poem. 0:01:09.680 --> 0:01:12.240 Also like I did stream of consciousness. But then there's like, 0:01:12.360 --> 0:01:13.040 are you a poem? 0:01:13.400 --> 0:01:13.520 Who? 0:01:14.280 --> 0:01:18.119 I was like, what am I doing? You're upsella Alan Ginsberg? Yeah? 0:01:18.200 --> 0:01:20.600 Look at all right? 0:01:20.680 --> 0:01:25.000 So here goes Shonda Rhimes. A collector, an observer, a 0:01:25.040 --> 0:01:27.640 watcher of lives, of minds, of things good and bad, 0:01:27.680 --> 0:01:30.480 A quiet human, a quiet soul. I have never met 0:01:30.480 --> 0:01:33.039 a more quiet woman with the loudest mind and the 0:01:33.080 --> 0:01:36.759 loudest brain, and with the bestest skill to weave those 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:40.760 collections she collects into stories that mesmerize us, that move us, 0:01:41.040 --> 0:01:43.000 that make us stand by the coolers at work and 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:45.680 chatter with our friends and even foes about what we 0:01:45.720 --> 0:01:48.920 watched the night before and what we'll watch on Thursday 0:01:48.960 --> 0:01:53.240 at night after four That Thursday stuff changed my life. 0:01:53.400 --> 0:01:55.200 She took a chance on me and shined the light 0:01:55.320 --> 0:01:58.240 on my quietness, on my weirdness, and turned it into 0:01:58.240 --> 0:02:00.880 a character. Or rather, she created this character and then 0:02:00.960 --> 0:02:04.360 chose me to play it, and I melted into him. Shonda, 0:02:04.440 --> 0:02:07.240 I have never felt more intimidated by someone in my life. 0:02:07.680 --> 0:02:09.680 But that is only because I want to do good 0:02:09.680 --> 0:02:12.440 by you, by your brilliance, your words, from miks see 0:02:12.480 --> 0:02:15.040 Me and McDreamy to Olitz and o'lake and finally, with 0:02:15.120 --> 0:02:18.760 the win of Huckleberry Quinn, from you, so much more 0:02:18.800 --> 0:02:20.320 to come out there for the take. 0:02:21.360 --> 0:02:27.639 That's it, my godde hotter. 0:02:27.800 --> 0:02:30.760 As if you couldn't be cooler or hotter, or more 0:02:30.760 --> 0:02:35.440 interesting or more just the best human I've ever known. 0:02:35.440 --> 0:02:38.800 You're also a brilliant poet. Is everyone losing their minds. 0:02:38.800 --> 0:02:39.680 I'm losing my mind right now. 0:02:39.720 --> 0:02:41.720 Also, Seawanna is definitely listening to this episode and you 0:02:41.760 --> 0:02:42.480 will definitely hear it. 0:02:42.800 --> 0:02:44.519 Yeah, so good, good, good good. 0:02:44.639 --> 0:02:49.280 That was so beautiful. I mean, our listeners are Yesterday. 0:02:49.600 --> 0:02:51.960 Is the one and only Shonda Rhymes. 0:02:51.440 --> 0:02:54.000 The queen, the one and only, and she is. 0:02:53.919 --> 0:02:57.520 The creator of Huckleberry Quinn, the creator of Our Baby 0:02:57.680 --> 0:02:59.760 or Hawk like the Hook is one of the best 0:02:59.800 --> 0:03:01.520 care in all of television history. 0:03:01.520 --> 0:03:04.120 In my opinion, I'm so lucky. We're so lucky to 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:07.040 play these characters. She's also the queen of like all 0:03:07.080 --> 0:03:11.040 these stands right like oh late golits like mc steemy, McDreamy, 0:03:11.080 --> 0:03:14.000 all like all these like oh my nicknames that we've 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:17.280 given these characters because people deeply fall in love with them. 0:03:18.360 --> 0:03:20.920 This is the woman that created these people, like these 0:03:21.400 --> 0:03:22.480 these stories. 0:03:22.160 --> 0:03:25.639 And these relationships that people are just like obsessed with. 0:03:25.760 --> 0:03:28.400 It's just so and season three, you know, I'm so 0:03:28.440 --> 0:03:30.720 glad she's coming on because season three was so pivotal. 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:34.000 I feel like this was where scandal is scandal, you 0:03:34.000 --> 0:03:36.640 know what I mean. Like one was one two we 0:03:36.640 --> 0:03:39.200 were like kind of getting out to the races and 0:03:39.240 --> 0:03:42.640 by season three, we were just like a fucking winning horse. 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:44.840 Just do you like my horse metaphor? Right now? I 0:03:44.880 --> 0:03:47.400 don't know where working, but you know what I mean? 0:03:48.000 --> 0:03:50.400 Yeah, this is this is the season where you felt like, 0:03:50.800 --> 0:03:53.400 oh shit, one of us is gonna get struck by lightning, 0:03:53.680 --> 0:03:56.240 one of us is gonna be off, and one of 0:03:56.280 --> 0:03:57.280 us was a few of. 0:03:57.280 --> 0:03:59.960 Us were dead. 0:04:00.480 --> 0:04:07.280 Jerry Graham dead, fucking James Novak dead dead. Oh that 0:04:07.320 --> 0:04:10.120 hot girl that looks like Marika dead dead? 0:04:10.440 --> 0:04:12.960 Also dead, like, oh oh. 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:17.200 The guy I killed at the beginning dead, Sanhan dead? 0:04:17.440 --> 0:04:20.400 That's right? Yo? Did we We should have asked got 0:04:20.480 --> 0:04:22.800 about that, but we had him on the podcast before 0:04:22.880 --> 0:04:23.679 we did that episode. 0:04:23.880 --> 0:04:25.839 Next time him on again. We have to be like, 0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:28.760 remember that hot B six thirteen girl? She looked just 0:04:28.800 --> 0:04:29.440 like Marika? 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:30.760 Was that intentional? 0:04:31.800 --> 0:04:32.359 Supposed to be? 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:33.680 They could be sisters or something? 0:04:34.360 --> 0:04:38.920 Yeah, okay, everyone, this episode is so great. But before 0:04:39.480 --> 0:04:41.760 G and I break down episode three eight, which is 0:04:41.800 --> 0:04:46.480 a personal fave of mine, we have an amazing, amazing guest. 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:51.080 She's Bridgerton, She's Queen Charlotte, she is Gray's Anatomy, she's 0:04:51.160 --> 0:04:55.200 private practice, she's how to get and she's Scandal. 0:04:56.279 --> 0:04:58.560 You guys know who it is the one to know. 0:04:58.600 --> 0:05:01.400 That Shonda wh our Queen Bee. 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:03.120 It's seander Ess. 0:05:04.080 --> 0:05:06.279 But we are at the time of this recording talking 0:05:06.279 --> 0:05:10.719 to her the day of the Bridgerton season three release. 0:05:10.880 --> 0:05:13.400 How is it feeling? Are we excited talk to us 0:05:13.400 --> 0:05:14.120 about Bridgerton? 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:16.280 It's feeling good, you know what I was thinking, like, 0:05:16.279 --> 0:05:17.920 this is the season three release and I'm here to 0:05:17.920 --> 0:05:19.279 talk about season three Scandal. 0:05:20.240 --> 0:05:22.880 Oh that's right, yes, yes, So. 0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:26.680 Shaanna doesn't do short shows like just so everyone knows, 0:05:26.880 --> 0:05:30.560 even though it's funny, like Queen Charlotte was obviously a 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:33.280 mini series. Inventing Anna was a miniseriies that I got 0:05:33.279 --> 0:05:34.960 to be on, and I remember when you walked in, 0:05:35.040 --> 0:05:37.200 you were like, this is really weird, Like I only 0:05:37.240 --> 0:05:39.800 do shows that laughed like forever. 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:42.320 Seven years yeah, or more. 0:05:42.920 --> 0:05:47.360 So Bridgerton in season three? Does it feel new still? 0:05:48.080 --> 0:05:48.240 You know? 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:50.240 It does feel new because we have Jess Brown l 0:05:50.480 --> 0:05:53.000 now from Scandal when our Scandal writer's running the show, 0:05:53.480 --> 0:05:55.279 and so it's got like a fresh take and it's 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:56.000 been really fun. 0:05:56.080 --> 0:05:56.960 That's so exciting. 0:05:57.080 --> 0:05:59.520 What can we can you tease anything as a massive 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:02.760 step from you, I'm a freaking massive Bridgerton fan. 0:06:03.080 --> 0:06:05.599 I could see nothing except you're really gonna love it. 0:06:05.600 --> 0:06:08.719 It's a very sexy season and Lady Whistledown gets her due. 0:06:08.760 --> 0:06:09.840 I love Lady whistle Down. 0:06:09.880 --> 0:06:12.720 Oh you know what I'll be doing all weekend, We'll 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:17.159 just be not leaving my house and just watching that. Okay, 0:06:17.160 --> 0:06:22.400 So take us through season three of Scandal. Gladiators was 0:06:22.560 --> 0:06:23.960 the Juggernaut season. 0:06:24.360 --> 0:06:27.240 It was like, I know because I went back to 0:06:27.240 --> 0:06:29.600 look at all the episode names, so like refresh myself, 0:06:29.839 --> 0:06:31.640 and I was like, oh my god, this is the season. 0:06:31.680 --> 0:06:34.000 This happened, and that happened, and this happened was my 0:06:34.080 --> 0:06:36.159 favorite seasons. Really me too. 0:06:36.320 --> 0:06:39.040 It's such a great season. I mean, major characters die, 0:06:39.720 --> 0:06:44.640 major characters murder. I mean it's a wild, wild season. 0:06:44.760 --> 0:06:48.520 And we were sort of we were in our groove, right. 0:06:48.560 --> 0:06:53.920 I think people really started to scan yeah and the characters, 0:06:53.960 --> 0:06:55.560 and it was such an exciting time. 0:06:55.600 --> 0:06:59.200 Do you remember, Seana, Like, what did your days at 0:06:59.200 --> 0:07:03.320 this point? Like, okay, Gray's is obviously the Juggernaut. Now 0:07:03.360 --> 0:07:07.719 you've got two oh my massive juggernauts happening at one time. 0:07:08.000 --> 0:07:09.880 Well, we also had we also had had to get 0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:10.520 away with Murder. 0:07:11.320 --> 0:07:13.880 Oh my god, that was all this, I think. 0:07:13.920 --> 0:07:16.800 Yeah, yeah, it was like the very beginning of it. 0:07:16.840 --> 0:07:20.960 I think, right, yeah, my gosh, what was your day 0:07:21.000 --> 0:07:23.160 to day like at this point? Are you sitting in 0:07:23.160 --> 0:07:26.160 the Scandal writer's room all day? Or are you like 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:29.400 hiding in your office? Like what was a day to 0:07:29.520 --> 0:07:32.280 day like in Shonda Rhime's life at this moment in time. 0:07:32.120 --> 0:07:33.960 I feel like I was running around, like running around 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:36.360 like a crazy person because I was popping in the 0:07:36.400 --> 0:07:38.320 Scandal's writer's room to talk about what we're going to 0:07:38.400 --> 0:07:40.280 do next and to hear all their ideas and pitches. 0:07:40.600 --> 0:07:43.800 I was in my office rewriting whatever script was coming up. 0:07:44.200 --> 0:07:47.160 I was also in my office editing whichever the next 0:07:47.440 --> 0:07:50.680 cut was to get on the air in like four days, 0:07:51.960 --> 0:07:54.000 and then I was going to like prep meetings and 0:07:54.040 --> 0:07:55.600 talking to Tom like it was crazy. 0:07:56.000 --> 0:07:56.240 It was. 0:07:56.360 --> 0:07:59.080 You always wonder why I was never like sitting on set. 0:07:59.160 --> 0:08:00.800 I was like, do you I didn't have time for 0:08:00.840 --> 0:08:03.400 that because I was also editing every episode to Gray's 0:08:03.400 --> 0:08:04.520 Anatomy at that point too. 0:08:04.680 --> 0:08:08.360 Oh my god, I remember you. You sat on set 0:08:08.400 --> 0:08:11.000 with Betsy Beers during the pilot and that was probably 0:08:11.000 --> 0:08:13.360 the only time that you had time to eat that 0:08:13.400 --> 0:08:13.680 I was. 0:08:14.120 --> 0:08:16.960 Until me did the finale, until he did the final episode. 0:08:17.120 --> 0:08:19.280 You came down a few times and we would be like, 0:08:19.760 --> 0:08:22.680 which is the right move? I think also like you 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:25.960 came down, I think for our seven fifty two monologues 0:08:26.000 --> 0:08:28.600 in season yes, like there were a cop like a 0:08:28.640 --> 0:08:32.079 handful in seven or eight years that you came down. 0:08:31.200 --> 0:08:34.439 I wanted to see in person myself, you know what 0:08:34.520 --> 0:08:34.840 I mean? 0:08:35.360 --> 0:08:39.040 Yes, yes, And also I think what you're what I've 0:08:39.080 --> 0:08:41.400 picked up on is there is this sort of at 0:08:41.400 --> 0:08:43.920 this point, which was already happening, there's like a real 0:08:44.040 --> 0:08:47.839 Shonda effect, which is people can't really and I love 0:08:47.880 --> 0:08:49.760 you so much, you know, I love you, but people 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:52.360 can't do their jobs when Shonda comes to set because 0:08:52.400 --> 0:08:57.040 everyone is literally shaking in their shoes. I want to 0:08:57.040 --> 0:08:59.679 meet you and scared and intimidated and all this stuff. 0:08:59.720 --> 0:09:02.440 So it's better, Yeah, you know, it's better. 0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:04.480 I learned that, and I got to tell you like 0:09:04.520 --> 0:09:06.640 I learned it early on. I mean like maybe season 0:09:06.720 --> 0:09:08.360 six on grades, I would go to set and everything 0:09:08.360 --> 0:09:11.920 would stop and I'd go down to scandal and everybody. 0:09:11.960 --> 0:09:14.000 By then it was even worse because I had three nights, 0:09:14.120 --> 0:09:17.640 you know, three whole episodes of TG I T and 0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:22.160 people would be so nervous and like and I would comment. 0:09:22.200 --> 0:09:24.079 I would say like, oh nice wall, and they'd be 0:09:24.160 --> 0:09:25.760 like you hate them all, Like oh my god, We've 0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:27.720 got to you know, you know what I mean. They 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:29.280 were trying so hard to please, and I was like, 0:09:29.360 --> 0:09:32.560 I'm basically messing up work here, so I'm not coming. 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:36.079 Yes, yes, I remember you came down to inventing Anna 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:39.400 one day and everyone was like, oh my god. 0:09:39.679 --> 0:09:41.760 Everyone who'd worked on the show with. 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:44.840 You and at exchange a million emails on like clothing 0:09:44.960 --> 0:09:45.760 choices and. 0:09:46.000 --> 0:09:47.680 Were like, do you think I can get a photo? 0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:51.120 Like production stopped because everyone needed to get their picture 0:09:51.320 --> 0:09:52.360 for their family. 0:09:52.480 --> 0:09:54.840 It was nerve wracking, and I always feel so bad 0:09:54.880 --> 0:09:57.640 because honestly, I feel like I'm interrupting people having been 0:09:57.640 --> 0:10:00.600 able to do their creative process their way. So I'm like, 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:02.559 I'm not going down there unless it's an emergency. 0:10:02.640 --> 0:10:05.000 You need to go through like special effects like make 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:07.040 up before you go to chests again and just go 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:11.160 incognitiugno so people don't know what's you yeah, and they'll 0:10:11.200 --> 0:10:14.640 be there. I might try that, Yeah, you should seandy, 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:17.360 didn't you You were also you were working on these shows, 0:10:17.400 --> 0:10:20.000 and then you were also raising kids at this time, right, 0:10:20.240 --> 0:10:21.400 did you already have your daughter? 0:10:21.559 --> 0:10:25.160 No, I was working on these shows. Emerson was two 0:10:25.320 --> 0:10:29.320 in season three, Beckett was one in season three. Yeah, 0:10:29.400 --> 0:10:31.960 Harper was like a like, it's starting to be a teenager. 0:10:32.480 --> 0:10:35.560 It was crazy, which is not an easy phase for kids. 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:38.600 I would bring you know what, Emmy was amazing because 0:10:38.640 --> 0:10:40.960 I could tuck Emmy under my arm bring her to 0:10:41.000 --> 0:10:44.040 the office because she was was this like silent observant baby, 0:10:44.280 --> 0:10:45.760 and we would sit in the writer's room. She could 0:10:45.760 --> 0:10:46.880 sit in the writer's room like all. 0:10:46.840 --> 0:10:49.679 Day really and be perfectly fine and not make a peep. 0:10:49.920 --> 0:10:50.120 Right. 0:10:50.600 --> 0:10:53.120 I remember her being at a table read, like you know, 0:10:53.200 --> 0:10:54.840 at the beginning of one and she just was so 0:10:55.000 --> 0:10:56.480 observiing and like. 0:10:56.440 --> 0:10:58.960 She would come to disablery and start of Buddha feeling. 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:01.280 I remember remember one day I took her from a 0:11:01.280 --> 0:11:03.440 Gray's Anatomy table read in the car straight to a 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:05.839 Scandal table read and she just sat there the whole time, 0:11:05.960 --> 0:11:08.760 was like, this is so interesting. Beckett, on the other hand, 0:11:08.840 --> 0:11:10.880 was like I got a scream right now, So she 0:11:10.880 --> 0:11:12.040 didn't get to jump much. 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:19.920 Beer. I was just gonna say, those kids hearing Betsy 0:11:19.960 --> 0:11:25.240 Beers do the the stage directions probably low them into asleep. Right, 0:11:25.240 --> 0:11:27.800 It was like a lullab them. 0:11:27.840 --> 0:11:29.360 Yeah we should have. It was one of my most 0:11:29.520 --> 0:11:31.840 favorite thing ever, Betsy doing this the stage directions. 0:11:31.880 --> 0:11:34.720 I love that stage directions. Oh, she's the most. I've 0:11:34.760 --> 0:11:37.720 done so many table reads in my life, and there 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:40.439 is nothing like a table. 0:11:43.400 --> 0:11:47.079 Okay. So I called season three the come hell or 0:11:47.160 --> 0:11:50.720 high Water season because it starts with saying that, and 0:11:50.760 --> 0:11:52.679 it basically ends with Papa Pope saying that. 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:54.240 Yeah, that's right. 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:58.840 And season three is where Carrie also was pregnant. In 0:11:58.920 --> 0:12:02.520 this season, Carrie was pregnant, Yeah, and I mean, bless 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:05.080 her and completely different than me. I feel like I 0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:07.080 watched this season and I mean, you can you know 0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:11.880 she's in some lovely, incredible jackets with some incredible purses 0:12:11.880 --> 0:12:12.439 and stuff like that. 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:14.760 Handbags in the world, Yeah. 0:12:14.440 --> 0:12:15.800 The biggest handbags in the world. 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:18.079 And she's behind a lamp or she's behind it whatever, 0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:21.000 which I mean only Kerrie Washington, like Quinn, you could 0:12:21.000 --> 0:12:23.840 have never hidden a freaking day of my pregnancy. But 0:12:24.400 --> 0:12:29.040 what what was like, do you remember making a decision. 0:12:29.120 --> 0:12:32.560 I'm just curious, like where Olivia like was not going 0:12:32.640 --> 0:12:34.240 to be pregnant, Like how did that? 0:12:34.520 --> 0:12:34.760 Well? 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:37.120 I knew from the beginning that Olivia Pope was not 0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:39.120 a person who wanted to have kids, do you know 0:12:39.200 --> 0:12:41.160 what I mean? I feel like she had been so 0:12:41.240 --> 0:12:44.280 traumatized by her childhood, and I was like, we certainly 0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:46.680 can't be doing the season with Papa Pope and her pregnant, 0:12:46.679 --> 0:12:49.400 Like it was just two. It didn't make sense psychologically, 0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:52.000 and so I was like, we got to hide it. 0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:54.559 I was thrilled she was pregnant, celebrated it every time 0:12:54.600 --> 0:12:55.559 anybody got pregnant. 0:12:55.600 --> 0:12:57.080 But I was like, I know you did, and I 0:12:57.120 --> 0:12:57.840 was like, I don't. 0:12:57.679 --> 0:12:59.280 Care if she kind of looks like we just don't 0:12:59.280 --> 0:13:02.480 figure out how high and Tom Barica was amazing and 0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:03.559 hiding that pregnancy. 0:13:04.240 --> 0:13:07.840 Wow, I remember that that Olivia Pope, even in her creation, 0:13:08.000 --> 0:13:09.680 was someone that was that was not going to be 0:13:10.040 --> 0:13:11.800 That's not a character trait of her. She was not 0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:14.400 going to have a kid, which like, thankfully for Quinn, 0:13:14.440 --> 0:13:16.000 that was not the case for you. 0:13:16.240 --> 0:13:18.640 Quinn was very normal, which is so funny considering who 0:13:18.720 --> 0:13:21.280 Quinn sort of turns into but Quinn was very normal. 0:13:21.160 --> 0:13:27.720 But white picket fence kids the whole and this crazy 0:13:27.800 --> 0:13:32.520 job of pencil skirts. Okay, also in season three, I 0:13:32.559 --> 0:13:36.400 think for me it is the greatest guest starring cast. 0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:40.640 Like we have Leo Bergen in full effect, we have 0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:47.280 the Daniel Douglas murder. We have Lisaudre Andrew, we have Lisa, 0:13:48.040 --> 0:13:51.360 we have Sally Langston, we have Hollis Doyle back. Like 0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:56.000 it is like which guest star could get an Emmy 0:13:56.080 --> 0:13:58.960 because they were all just bringing their a game and 0:13:59.000 --> 0:14:02.160 were written the most credible characters. This is the season 0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:08.240 where James dies. Can you tell us anything about this 0:14:08.360 --> 0:14:10.880 was where we all realized, oh shit, none of us 0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:11.920 are safe and this is. 0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:12.600 The greatest job. 0:14:13.840 --> 0:14:16.360 But also he died in I mean he got the Emmy, right, 0:14:17.480 --> 0:14:18.800 maybe you want to get killed off? 0:14:19.000 --> 0:14:19.800 Yes? Yeah? No? 0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:23.680 Never How do you know, like, how do you know 0:14:24.160 --> 0:14:26.920 that this is something that happens? I remember you saying 0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:29.520 something like I'm the protector of the story and the 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:31.840 keeper of like the characters, Like how do you know 0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:34.960 when something like that is gonna is the right move? 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:37.120 I just know, I mean I don't know how to 0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:38.880 tell you why I know, I just know. Like I 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:41.640 would go into the room and be like, okay, so 0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:44.080 James is going to die, and they the room was 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:46.360 like what is wrong with you? Like Cyrus and James 0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:47.960 and Lovelah and they were going on, and I was like, 0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:50.520 it's the story, Like we're there now, like that's where 0:14:50.560 --> 0:14:53.560 we are in the story. Also, you know, I was 0:14:53.600 --> 0:14:56.000 actually with Dan Bukatinski this weekend. 0:14:56.640 --> 0:14:59.760 Oh yeah, right, I saw a picture on Instagram. 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:02.800 Yes, the world is crazy, okay, But we were. 0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:05.160 Talking, like Dan was talking to me and we ended 0:15:05.200 --> 0:15:07.360 up talking about the episode where he dies, and he 0:15:07.400 --> 0:15:10.640 talked about how emotional it made him just listening to 0:15:11.080 --> 0:15:13.560 Scott Fuley's speech, the whole thing, you know, where he 0:15:13.600 --> 0:15:15.800 sits next to him. It was it was great. 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:20.880 Oh that ending is I mean, there are so many 0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:25.560 this season between Sally Langston's like yum yum, Piggy Yum yum. Chris, 0:15:26.120 --> 0:15:29.640 She's losing her mind, like the devil has taken over her. 0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:31.720 She feels like God isn't talking to her anymore because 0:15:31.720 --> 0:15:36.560 she's a murderer. Scott Jake Ballard is next to next 0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:39.320 to James as he's gurgling these last gurgles and he's like, 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:41.240 I'm so sorry, this had to be so painful, but 0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:44.160 we had to make it look like it was, you know, 0:15:44.240 --> 0:15:46.520 a murder, and then I wasn't involved. I mean, it 0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:50.240 was just like yeah, oh h. 0:15:50.480 --> 0:15:51.680 But you just know when you know. 0:15:51.640 --> 0:15:55.000 You're like, nope, James is gonna die. That's it. It's 0:15:55.080 --> 0:15:56.840 the way that it has to go. And I and 0:15:56.880 --> 0:15:59.200 you have to how hard that is as your job 0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:01.480 that you have to make it not personal like you're 0:16:01.560 --> 0:16:02.680 friends with Dan. 0:16:03.000 --> 0:16:04.920 But that's why I'm the keeper of the story. Like 0:16:05.000 --> 0:16:07.640 I'm like, I can't like, I can't take any of 0:16:07.720 --> 0:16:10.680 that in account because the world I'm protecting is the 0:16:10.720 --> 0:16:12.880 story world and I'm the only one protecting at one. 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:16.560 That's my job. So I feel like you make these 0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:20.280 decisions and you make them completely outside of what you're doing. 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:21.760 It's really hard. Let me tell you. 0:16:22.600 --> 0:16:24.960 It's cutthroat. It's it's savage. 0:16:25.120 --> 0:16:27.080 It feels savage, but you have. 0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:29.960 To do it. But but you know, it makes the show. 0:16:30.080 --> 0:16:33.000 It made the show so much more exciting when that happened. 0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:34.800 I love when Dan was telling us the story that 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:38.840 he was trying to pitch to you. A world where 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:41.240 James would come back. He was like, well, if you 0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:41.840 don't see the. 0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:47.360 Body like we see it, it all happens, our life 0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:48.280 go out. It's bad. 0:16:48.400 --> 0:16:48.640 Yeah. 0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:50.840 He did a beautiful job with that. He did a 0:16:50.840 --> 0:16:51.760 beautiful job with that. 0:16:53.000 --> 0:16:55.880 He made me sob and it also gave you such 0:16:56.000 --> 0:16:58.560 juice to be like, you know, the following episode, we 0:16:58.600 --> 0:17:01.320 get to go back in time and we see why 0:17:01.600 --> 0:17:05.080 James and Cyrus fell in love and in all of 0:17:05.119 --> 0:17:05.520 these things. 0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:06.560 I love that episode. 0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:07.720 Yeah, it's beautiful. 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:15.280 Yeah, we will be back with more after the break. 0:17:16.160 --> 0:17:19.240 When you are working on a season, for your process, 0:17:20.080 --> 0:17:22.600 is it the kind of thing where, like the beginning 0:17:22.600 --> 0:17:25.560 of the season, you mapped out the season three arc, 0:17:25.920 --> 0:17:28.840 or you're still completely open to taking a total left 0:17:28.840 --> 0:17:31.080 turn when we're in episode nine, like. 0:17:31.320 --> 0:17:33.680 Okay, I want to tell you we never knew anything, 0:17:34.000 --> 0:17:38.399 but but I mean, you never knew to But one 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:40.560 of the things was is I when I wrote and 0:17:40.560 --> 0:17:43.680 I'm literally like when I wrote the speech for Papa 0:17:43.720 --> 0:17:45.840 Pope in that first episode where he's like you will 0:17:45.840 --> 0:17:47.399 get on that plane come hell and eye water and 0:17:47.440 --> 0:17:50.440 I'm the hell and high water. I wrote that and 0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:53.359 I knew in my head from that moment. I was like, 0:17:53.400 --> 0:17:54.720 so at the end of the season, she's getting on 0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:56.399 that plane, Like that was the one thing. I was like, 0:17:56.440 --> 0:17:58.760 that is the point of the season, So. 0:17:58.760 --> 0:18:00.720 You might have an end mark you had like an 0:18:00.880 --> 0:18:02.440 end I knew everything in. 0:18:02.359 --> 0:18:04.919 The Middlening too, Yeah, but like I didn't know we 0:18:04.920 --> 0:18:09.040 were gonna kill Jerry. I didn't know. I didn't know 0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:10.720 any of that stuff till till I knew it, you 0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:11.879 know what I mean. I was like, what's going to 0:18:11.920 --> 0:18:14.120 get him elected? And it was that stuff, you. 0:18:14.040 --> 0:18:18.080 Know, savage, sad, brilliage, child, savage. 0:18:18.160 --> 0:18:20.240 But the room was so great because they by this 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:23.320 time they had learned that, like that's what we were doing, 0:18:23.359 --> 0:18:26.760 like we were there was nothing too special, and so 0:18:27.080 --> 0:18:28.480 they would come in. I'd come in and they would 0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:32.080 pitch me like amazing crap, Like I don't remember who 0:18:32.119 --> 0:18:34.720 wrote Yung Young Chrispy Piggy Young Mum, but it's still 0:18:34.760 --> 0:18:36.679 one of the favorite things that someone wrote, and it 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:37.720 was amazing. 0:18:38.160 --> 0:18:38.680 So good. 0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:42.359 It's so amazing. But that's how I think it also, Lend, 0:18:42.520 --> 0:18:42.960 And I'm. 0:18:42.840 --> 0:18:45.119