WEBVTT - The Trial Over 'Unite the Right' 0:00:04.920 --> 0:00:07.680 Welcome back to it could happen here the show that 0:00:07.800 --> 0:00:12.119 is only introduced competently when either someone besides me is 0:00:12.160 --> 0:00:14.960 the one hosting the episode, or when I have a 0:00:15.000 --> 0:00:20.000 guest that I feel embarrassed about being incompetent in front 0:00:20.040 --> 0:00:22.600 of and and this is this is the latter case, 0:00:22.880 --> 0:00:29.040 because today I'm talking with uh, my friend and admired colleague, 0:00:29.160 --> 0:00:33.080 Molly Conjure. Molly, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. 0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:35.320 I got to do that like a professional. Welcome to 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:38.720 the show. That's like an NPR shit right. I know 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:40.280 people have been saying on the Twitch stream that I 0:00:40.320 --> 0:00:43.680 have a very soothing NPR style. Boy, you would be great. 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:46.760 I would love to hear you uh talking in NPR 0:00:46.840 --> 0:00:49.640 about how it's it's rad that those those people broke 0:00:49.680 --> 0:00:51.920 the windows on those police cars or whatever. No, I 0:00:52.159 --> 0:00:54.720 can't be allowed in respectable spaces. I can't be allowed there. 0:00:54.720 --> 0:00:56.640 They let me talk on a panel at Harvard one time, 0:00:56.680 --> 0:00:58.280 and I accidentally said fuck in front of a bunch 0:00:58.280 --> 0:01:02.760 of people. I mean, I assume Harvard students know a 0:01:02.840 --> 0:01:07.440 funk word or two. Speaking of funk words, there's a 0:01:07.480 --> 0:01:10.120 couple of funk words who are under trial, right now 0:01:10.280 --> 0:01:17.480 for inciting mass violence that led to human death and suffering. Um, 0:01:17.680 --> 0:01:19.520 you wanna you want to give us the overview we're 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:23.679 we're talking today about, you know, the Unite the Right 0:01:23.760 --> 0:01:26.080 rally and Charles Gill in two thousand seventeen that led 0:01:26.120 --> 0:01:28.639 to three deaths, one as the result of direct violence 0:01:28.640 --> 0:01:30.920 had their higher who was murdered murdered by the fascist 0:01:31.040 --> 0:01:35.640 James Field currently in prison for forever. Um, Yeah, forever 0:01:36.120 --> 0:01:40.400 that you know, his trial concluded a while ago. Um, 0:01:40.440 --> 0:01:44.319 But there has been churning through the legal system, a 0:01:44.360 --> 0:01:50.520 trial against Richard Spencer Jason Kessler, who was the main organizer. Um, 0:01:50.720 --> 0:01:55.840 can't well, there's other uh plaintiffs right, Oh, a lot 0:01:55.920 --> 0:01:58.760 of a lot of fascists about you know, all of 0:01:58.800 --> 0:02:01.640 the things that they did, the fact that they clearly 0:02:02.000 --> 0:02:07.200 intended this to be a violent uh riot assault whatever like, 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:10.680 they wanted to have it be a fucking lynching essentially, 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:13.119 and there's a lot of evidence, including things they said 0:02:13.120 --> 0:02:18.400 to each other about building armies to murder people. Um. Anyway, Molly, 0:02:18.480 --> 0:02:19.960 you want to take it from here. I think I've 0:02:19.960 --> 0:02:23.240 introduced the situation. There's a trial going on. You have 0:02:23.320 --> 0:02:25.840 been listening to every day of it and covering it 0:02:25.880 --> 0:02:28.520 on Twitch very ably. UM, and so I just kind 0:02:28.520 --> 0:02:30.360 of wanted to catch up with you. You You also wrote 0:02:30.360 --> 0:02:35.040 an article in Slate with our friend Emily Gortchynsky about UM, 0:02:35.120 --> 0:02:38.480 what's like largely the jury selection of the trial. So 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:40.359 I was wondering if you could just kind of give 0:02:40.400 --> 0:02:42.480 us an overview of what's happened so far if your 0:02:42.520 --> 0:02:47.119 thoughts on it. Um. Yeah, that that seems that seems good. Yeah. 0:02:47.160 --> 0:02:49.960 So there's just right at the outset, this is a 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:52.200 civil trial, right, This is not a criminal trial. No 0:02:52.240 --> 0:02:53.920 one's going to the No one's going to jail at 0:02:53.960 --> 0:02:56.320 the end of this. Some of the jail call it 0:02:57.720 --> 0:02:59.880 that the Who's goal. We call it the Who's goal 0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:04.280 in the show. That's the property, Okay, Um, some of 0:03:04.320 --> 0:03:06.480 them already in jail obviously, Like you said, James Fields 0:03:06.480 --> 0:03:11.160 is serving twenty nine life sentences to life. It's a 0:03:11.160 --> 0:03:13.640 lot of life. So he was. He was charged in 0:03:13.639 --> 0:03:16.600 in Virginia State Court by the Commonwealth of Virginia. He 0:03:16.639 --> 0:03:19.440 was convicted at trial of first degree murder and several 0:03:19.440 --> 0:03:23.080 counts of aggravated malicious wounding. Um. He was. So that 0:03:23.120 --> 0:03:25.960 trial happened in he actually went to trial for that, 0:03:26.280 --> 0:03:28.639 but then he pleaded guilty in federal courts. He was 0:03:28.720 --> 0:03:31.760 charged in two separate courts for the same underlying events, 0:03:31.880 --> 0:03:35.000 and in federal court he pleaded guilty to twenty nine 0:03:35.000 --> 0:03:38.920 federal hate crimes. Um he pleaded guilty to hate crimes. 0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:41.520 So there's no debate about whether these were hate crimes, right, 0:03:42.040 --> 0:03:44.320 and he pleaded guilty too. He pleaded guilty to avoid 0:03:44.360 --> 0:03:47.040 the death penalty because a hate crime, murder is a 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:51.480 capital crime. So in this lawsuit, right, this this civil 0:03:51.560 --> 0:03:55.880 lawsuit against Deep Breath, Jason Kessler, Richard Spencer, Christopher Campbell, 0:03:55.960 --> 0:03:58.640 James alex Field, Gang Got America, Andrew England, Moonbase Holdings, 0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:01.840 Robert asmod Or, Ray Nathan to Ego, Elliott Klein, Identity Europea, 0:04:01.840 --> 0:04:05.600 Matthew Parrot, Matthew Hindbuch, Traditionalist Worker Party, Michael Hill, Michael 0:04:05.600 --> 0:04:07.240 Tubsley of the South, Jeff Scoop, Now that the National 0:04:07.280 --> 0:04:10.120 Socialist Movement Nationals Front, Augustus Invictus, Reternal Order of the 0:04:10.120 --> 0:04:13.040 Alt Knights, Mike Kinevich, Loyal White Nights of the KKK 0:04:13.160 --> 0:04:15.200 East Coast Knights of the KKK East Coast Knights of 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:18.200 the true Invisible Empire. Several of those parties have been 0:04:18.240 --> 0:04:22.640 dismissed from the suit. That's a lot, it's a lot 0:04:22.680 --> 0:04:24.960 of bad guys, right, Um, several of those parties have 0:04:24.960 --> 0:04:29.120 been dismissed from the suit. Augustus and Victus defaulted Pine dismission. 0:04:29.720 --> 0:04:31.720 That means the fact that he defaulted, Does that mean 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:37.000 he was like, yes, right, he offered no defense, So 0:04:37.120 --> 0:04:39.000 that's what that means. Yeah, I mean he's been dealing 0:04:39.040 --> 0:04:41.200 with a lot. What would he He's had some problems, 0:04:41.240 --> 0:04:46.560 he's been jails. He abducted his wife at gunpoint. Um. 0:04:47.080 --> 0:04:49.520 I think he's out of jail now, but he's had 0:04:49.560 --> 0:04:52.920 some personal problems. He's had some personal problems. So the 0:04:53.160 --> 0:04:57.080 underlying claim with the lawsuit is a section complaint a 0:04:57.120 --> 0:04:59.760 conspiracy to deprive people of civil rights. Um. This is 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:03.000 ndamentally at it's at its core an anti clan statute. Right. 0:05:03.040 --> 0:05:06.880 It was designed to disrupt clan organizing. Um. And that's 0:05:07.040 --> 0:05:08.960 kind of what it's being used for here. Right. This 0:05:09.000 --> 0:05:15.200 is so the lawsuit was brought by by nine plaintiffs 0:05:15.200 --> 0:05:17.760 who were harmed people who got hurt at the rally. 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:20.920 Most of the plaintiffs were physically injured in the car attack, 0:05:20.920 --> 0:05:24.039 although not all of them, um, but these are people 0:05:24.120 --> 0:05:28.000 who are seeking damages, right like for all all the 0:05:28.000 --> 0:05:31.680 emotional weight, all the sort of social ramifications. Fundamentally, this 0:05:31.720 --> 0:05:33.880 is a case about damages. So the jury is going 0:05:33.920 --> 0:05:36.760 to say, Okay, these people were harmed. Do we believe 0:05:36.800 --> 0:05:40.520 they were harmed by a conspiracy to commit acts of violence? 0:05:40.720 --> 0:05:44.160 Conspiracy to commit racially motivated accidents? Right, so all of 0:05:44.160 --> 0:05:47.080 those elements have to improve. And there was k guys 0:05:47.200 --> 0:05:50.480 want to do racial violence when they assaulted people? Yeah? 0:05:50.920 --> 0:05:55.000 Was their conspiracy? Was it motivated by racial animus? And 0:05:55.040 --> 0:05:58.359 were overt acts of violence committed? And did those acts 0:05:58.360 --> 0:06:01.719 of violence harm these people in a way that entitles 0:06:01.720 --> 0:06:05.280 them to damages? That's all the jury has to decide. Right, 0:06:05.400 --> 0:06:10.320 should be an open shed case nowhere, but it does 0:06:10.400 --> 0:06:14.039 seem like kind of an open and shut case. It does, 0:06:14.360 --> 0:06:16.840 right So, because if there are people out thereho are 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:20.680 not familiar with the events of that day, a lot 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:23.920 of alt right groups, you know, overt neo Nazi organizations, 0:06:23.960 --> 0:06:27.280 the literal Clan, the literal American Nazi Party, like Neo 0:06:27.320 --> 0:06:31.400 Confederate secession. David's duke was there. David Duke was there, 0:06:31.480 --> 0:06:35.200 David Duke, who Elliott Klein described as an ideological grandfather 0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:40.320 when he was asking other organizers that he can invite him. Um, 0:06:40.440 --> 0:06:43.760 these guys came together, they came to Charlottesville. They brawldened 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:46.240 the streets, they beat people, They hit them with shields. 0:06:46.839 --> 0:06:49.720 A literal clan wizard fired his gun at a black 0:06:49.760 --> 0:06:53.479 band while screaming die N word. Well, now, okay, it 0:06:53.480 --> 0:06:57.520 seems like you're reaching a bit to call that racially motivated. Well, 0:06:57.680 --> 0:07:04.840 that's something they're trying to litigate. So you're probably familiar 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:07.279 with the video of DeAndre Harris being beaten nearly to 0:07:07.360 --> 0:07:10.800 death by mothers of several different hate groups. Right, So 0:07:11.080 --> 0:07:12.440 one of the guys that beat him was a tv 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:13.920 a P member. One of them was a Lead of 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:17.240 the South member, and they worked together to beat this 0:07:17.320 --> 0:07:19.240 young man nearly to death while he was lying on 0:07:19.280 --> 0:07:22.000 the ground. And so that today they were talking about like, well, 0:07:22.040 --> 0:07:24.400 can we really say that was racially motivated? You know, 0:07:24.560 --> 0:07:28.760 can we really say can we really say? Yeah? Yeah, 0:07:28.800 --> 0:07:31.560 I think we can. I think we can. Um. You know, 0:07:31.680 --> 0:07:34.320 his mother has been on podcasts since his conviction. I'm 0:07:34.400 --> 0:07:36.880 referring to Jacob Goodwin, the t TPP member, the man 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:40.040 who used a t w P riot shield provided to 0:07:40.120 --> 0:07:42.920 him by Matthew Heinbach to beat this young man. His 0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:45.720 mother goes on Nazi podcast still to describe how her 0:07:45.760 --> 0:07:49.760 son is a martyr for the white cause. There's no ambiguity, 0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:53.080 But where are you getting racially motivated from that moment? Right? Like, 0:07:53.520 --> 0:07:55.320 there's a there's a picture of her with her arm 0:07:55.360 --> 0:07:57.360 around her son. Her son's like seven feet tall. He's 0:07:57.360 --> 0:07:59.480 a giant boy to get her arm around her, large 0:07:59.480 --> 0:08:02.080 adults and he's wearing a T shirt with a giant 0:08:02.120 --> 0:08:06.360 picture of George Lincoln Rockwell on it. Ah, you love 0:08:06.440 --> 0:08:12.000 the deep cuts, so you know. And Billy Roper's Christmas party, Yeah, 0:08:12.880 --> 0:08:16.040 another another Nazi. Right, So there's not a lot of 0:08:16.080 --> 0:08:19.160 ambiguity here for the average person, but so you know, 0:08:19.200 --> 0:08:21.120 like you were saying, Emily and I wrote about jury selection, 0:08:21.240 --> 0:08:25.760 jury selection is um so corporate seedings are generally speaking 0:08:25.800 --> 0:08:27.680 open to the public. Anyone can go to their local 0:08:27.680 --> 0:08:29.800 courthouse and you can sit through a trial. You can 0:08:29.800 --> 0:08:32.320 sit through the war deer process, you can see how 0:08:32.320 --> 0:08:36.000 a jury gets chosen. You can go trial hopping, get wasted, 0:08:37.000 --> 0:08:39.160 re entertainment. As long as you say quietly, they can't 0:08:39.160 --> 0:08:47.440 make you leave. It's like a library's very discouraging because 0:08:47.480 --> 0:08:51.480 the whole point is to picturs who have never encountered reality. 0:08:51.960 --> 0:08:55.840 You pick people who don't have any opinions, right, because 0:08:55.840 --> 0:08:57.520 you want them to be able to be impartial. And 0:08:57.559 --> 0:08:59.079 the best way to picture your jury is going to 0:08:59.120 --> 0:09:03.360 be impartial is to pay people who don't have any opinions. 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:05.920 And if you don't have any opinions on whether or 0:09:05.920 --> 0:09:08.800 not it's good for Nazis to beat people in the streets, 0:09:09.160 --> 0:09:10.679 I would say that in and of itself as an 0:09:10.679 --> 0:09:13.840 opinion that you already have right the ability do not 0:09:13.920 --> 0:09:17.000 have an opinion about that. The jury selection took three 0:09:17.080 --> 0:09:20.120 days because they had to go through this process of 0:09:20.160 --> 0:09:22.600 speaking to each juror individually. Usually they'll they'll do it 0:09:22.640 --> 0:09:26.160 in batches where they ask questions of people in batches, um. 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:28.200 But this was so sensitive they didn't want to taint 0:09:28.240 --> 0:09:29.720 the jury pool, so they did it one by one. 0:09:29.760 --> 0:09:33.199 So it took three days, UM, and they chose jurors 0:09:33.240 --> 0:09:36.439 who didn't have opinions about the existence of racism in 0:09:36.440 --> 0:09:40.520 the United States. Okay, that seems unbiased. Again, it's this 0:09:40.559 --> 0:09:42.960 thing you keep seeing where it's like, well, we can't 0:09:43.040 --> 0:09:45.120 let people have a bias, so it has to be 0:09:45.200 --> 0:09:48.480 people who have never heard of white supremacy, which is like, 0:09:48.679 --> 0:09:51.000 then that's a bias in favor of white supremacy. But 0:09:51.360 --> 0:09:53.760 of course that's the default of the system. It's like 0:09:54.080 --> 0:09:56.840 that's the tear, right, Like you stick white supremacy on 0:09:56.840 --> 0:09:59.120 the scale and you tear it, but then you add 0:09:59.600 --> 0:10:02.560 aware nous of white supremacy and suddenly there's weight on it. 0:10:02.640 --> 0:10:06.280 You know. It's sorry, it's very fresh, I know, you know, 0:10:06.360 --> 0:10:10.880 it's frustrating, and yeah, I shouldn't frustrating to sit through 0:10:10.960 --> 0:10:12.560 listening to them to ask people, you know, because they 0:10:12.559 --> 0:10:14.079 they had to fill out a questionnaire ahead of time 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:17.160 so so they can sort of sift through obvious knows um. 0:10:17.200 --> 0:10:18.800 And one of the questions was, you know, how do 0:10:18.840 --> 0:10:22.080 you feel about how concerned are you about these different 0:10:22.120 --> 0:10:24.920 kinds of prejudice, you know, prejudice against black people, prejudice 0:10:24.920 --> 0:10:27.600 against Hispanic people, prejudice against Jewish people, are prejudice against 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:30.200 white people, And a lot of people indicated that they 0:10:30.200 --> 0:10:34.160 were very concerned about anti white racism and a lot 0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:36.880 of jurors were asked follow up questions about like, well, 0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:39.600 why aren't you more concerned about anti white racism. Why 0:10:39.600 --> 0:10:41.800 did you say you don't care about that because it's 0:10:41.800 --> 0:10:44.360 not real. Yeah, because I've never seen it in my 0:10:44.520 --> 0:10:50.959 entire life. Um, but okay, but we seated a jury. 0:10:50.960 --> 0:10:52.320 We did see the jury, and there were you know, 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:54.400 there's always concerned in a case like this that you 0:10:54.440 --> 0:10:56.880 just won't be able to get an impartial jury. But 0:10:56.880 --> 0:11:01.479 we got it could be worse, right, it could be worse. Um. 0:11:01.520 --> 0:11:03.280 There is a guy on the jury who said that 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:05.120 in high school he was the victim of a racially 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:09.800 motivated attack by by a Samoan person. Um, because they 0:11:09.840 --> 0:11:14.760 didn't like white people. M hmm, I wonder what that 0:11:14.840 --> 0:11:18.960 person was doing. Slash say, black people who believe that 0:11:19.000 --> 0:11:21.320 they have a right to exist without being subjected to 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:24.720 racism not impartial, can't be on the jury. But a 0:11:24.760 --> 0:11:26.280 white guy who says he was the victim of a 0:11:26.280 --> 0:11:33.439 hate crime because someone didn't like Howley's God. So people 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:35.560 talking about like I don't like it when folks not 0:11:35.720 --> 0:11:37.880 from my island come here and function up and make 0:11:37.920 --> 0:11:40.960 it expensive. Yeah, it's anti white racist. He was living 0:11:41.000 --> 0:11:46.439 in incredible, incredible, So you know, it could be a worster, 0:11:46.520 --> 0:11:48.520 it could be a worse jury, but it's not ideal. 0:11:48.720 --> 0:11:51.760 Um god, where did we go from there? It's been 0:11:52.600 --> 0:11:54.719 it's been a little bit of a blur. Um. So, 0:11:55.320 --> 0:11:59.439 Cantwell and Spencer don't have lawyers, right? Well? Yeah, okay, 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:02.280 so right because can't Well can't can't Well is for 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:05.240 people who aren't aware can't Well is representing himself, and 0:12:05.240 --> 0:12:07.280 tell correct me if I'm wrong here. But he started 0:12:07.360 --> 0:12:10.680 by acknowledging the old saying that a person who represents 0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:12.920 themselves as a fool as a lawyer, but then said, 0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:15.880 but I'm not a fool in this case. Yeah, he said, 0:12:15.920 --> 0:12:18.840 you may have heard this, but that's not true here. 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:25.240 That's not the case here. Unbelievable. And I didn't even 0:12:25.280 --> 0:12:28.560 stay in a Holiday and Express last night. Oh my god. 0:12:28.640 --> 0:12:32.480 Really he seriously made a Holiday and Express joke while 0:12:32.520 --> 0:12:34.800 he was oh my god. But the follow up, the 0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:37.600 follow up was, but I did stay in the Central 0:12:37.679 --> 0:12:41.360 Virginia Regional Jail because that is where he stays. Yeah, 0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:44.240 I mean, because he's he's in prison for sexually or 0:12:44.280 --> 0:12:49.720 not for for harassing and threatening and blackmailing another Nazi, right, yeah, yeah. 0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:53.680 He was transported here from the federal prison and Mary 0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:56.760 in Illinois, where he is a guest until next Christmas. 0:12:57.440 --> 0:13:01.040 Um so he had filed motion is to exclude the 0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:03.200 fact that he's currently incarcerated, as is his right right 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:06.080 late like if you are a yeah, yeah, absolutely involved 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:08.560 in a you know, in a criminal case or in 0:13:08.600 --> 0:13:10.600 a in a simple case, it is it is your 0:13:10.679 --> 0:13:13.160 right to have the jury not see you in a jumpsuit. 0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:16.679 And I respect that, I think perfectly absolutely. Yeah. So 0:13:16.760 --> 0:13:18.439 he went to great links to make sure that the 0:13:18.520 --> 0:13:20.400 jury would never see him in cuffs, that the marshals 0:13:20.400 --> 0:13:22.480 wouldn't bring him in in irons, that he would change 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:24.920 before the jury arrived at the coronels. All very reasonable 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:26.880 and no one's going to get to talk about it, 0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:28.960 but he brought it up in his own opening statement. 0:13:30.720 --> 0:13:33.880 I'm here from prison. I'm here from prison. By the way, 0:13:33.920 --> 0:13:36.440 I'm in prison for the other crimes I committed. But 0:13:36.440 --> 0:13:39.360 they're not related to these crimes. They're not related to 0:13:39.400 --> 0:13:43.200 these crimes except to the extent that he's unable to 0:13:43.280 --> 0:13:45.640 shut the funk up. He's only in prison because he 0:13:45.679 --> 0:13:48.400 emailed the FBI or recording him him doing the crime 0:13:48.440 --> 0:13:51.720 that he's in prison for. He's he's really a very 0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:54.880 cunning man. But I think, you know so, as much 0:13:54.920 --> 0:13:57.000 as those crimes aren't relevant to this case, I think 0:13:57.040 --> 0:13:59.760 it is very relevant to his trial strategy, right, that 0:13:59.800 --> 0:14:02.319 he has this belief that all the things he did 0:14:02.320 --> 0:14:04.840 that were wrong they were right. Actually, he just needs 0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:07.280 to explain to us why he did them and then 0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:11.480 we'll understand. Right, he's in prison because he tried to 0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:13.680 talk his way out of a thing that he did 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:17.120 that was wrong by telling everyone that he did do it. Yes, 0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:21.360 I did it because I had to. You didn't have 0:14:21.520 --> 0:14:24.280 to make an extortionate threat to rape another man's wife 0:14:24.280 --> 0:14:26.240 in front of their children. You didn't actually have to 0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:28.640 do that. Yeah, that's really I mean I would I 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:31.280 might argue, and perhaps I'm an extremist, but there's no 0:14:31.360 --> 0:14:33.640 situation in which you would ever have to do that. 0:14:34.800 --> 0:14:38.040 Nobody made you email the FBI about how you did that, 0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:42.040 but you did. Actually I would have told you that 0:14:42.120 --> 0:14:45.320 was a bad idea. I mean, there's there's some snarky 0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:47.600 stuff in some in some of the affidavits about how 0:14:47.640 --> 0:14:50.480 like he called the Keen Police Department trying to tattletale 0:14:50.520 --> 0:14:52.440 on other people so often that they were tired of 0:14:52.480 --> 0:14:56.800 taking his calls. Unbelievable. What an amazing man like he's 0:14:56.960 --> 0:14:59.480 he's a piece of ship, but he is legitimately an 0:14:59.480 --> 0:15:02.720 incredib person. I mean if he wrote this, no one 0:15:02.760 --> 0:15:04.960 would believe it. Right, This is so heavy handed, it's 0:15:04.960 --> 0:15:08.000 so goofy, Like when he was paying Elmer in guns 0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:11.200 his law he paid his lawyer in guns, and then 0:15:11.200 --> 0:15:14.200 he ran out of guns and had his lawyer stopped 0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:17.200 working for him. Yeah, he he doesn't have a lawyer 0:15:17.240 --> 0:15:19.560 anymore because he ran out of guns to pawn. Although 0:15:19.560 --> 0:15:21.720 I guess he can't anymore because now he's a convicted 0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:25.040 I gotta say, running out of guns to pawn for 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:30.800 your lawyer, it's pretty cocked. He even had to sell 0:15:30.840 --> 0:15:32.920 the bucket of loose bullets he used to keep us 0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:37.960 a prop on his desk, I mean, really devastating stuff. Um, 0:15:38.160 --> 0:15:40.240 so he doesn't you're you're down to the brad, You're 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:44.200 down to the rails when you're two with that really 0:15:44.240 --> 0:15:47.680 the bottom of the barrel. So he's proceeding pro sae, which, unfortunately, 0:15:48.160 --> 0:15:51.720 unfortunately for everyone involved, means he gets to talk a 0:15:51.840 --> 0:15:54.160 lot a lot, a lot, a lot, which means he 0:15:54.160 --> 0:15:57.360 gets to cross examine his own witnesses. Right. So the 0:15:57.360 --> 0:15:59.840 first two witnesses the plaintiffs put on were two of 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:03.080 their plaintiffs, right, two young people who were injured in 0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:06.160 these events. The first witness they put on Natalie its 0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:08.520 the UV, a student who had her skull fractured in 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:10.600 the car attack. Um. She had to learn how to 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:13.560 walk again, she had to see a neurologist to retrain 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:16.880 her eyes to track movement. I mean, she was very 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:20.960 badly injured. Um. And so she testified at length about 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:23.120 the damage that was done to her. Because again, this 0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:25.120 is a case about damages. So the jury needs to 0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:27.600 learn who is this person, what happened to them, what 0:16:27.640 --> 0:16:31.720 did it cost them physically, mentally, emotionally, financially um, Because 0:16:31.720 --> 0:16:32.960 what they're gonna be asked to do is to put 0:16:32.960 --> 0:16:34.600 a dollar amount on it. So they had to meet 0:16:34.640 --> 0:16:38.360 her and hear about her injuries, um, and hear about 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:41.680 her motivation for being there. Um. You know, she's a 0:16:41.760 --> 0:16:44.680 young queer Latino woman as she's the first college student 0:16:44.680 --> 0:16:47.160 in her family, and she's a very impressive young woman, 0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:49.960 and she was very composed of the stand um. As 0:16:50.000 --> 0:16:53.720 awful as the content was. Um. But then every single 0:16:53.720 --> 0:16:56.520 one of the defendants gets to cross examine her. Richard 0:16:56.560 --> 0:16:59.400 Spencer gets to cross examine her. Christopher camp Well gets 0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:02.000 to cross exam and her. James Klennich, who took the case. 0:17:02.040 --> 0:17:04.800 He's Kessler, Demigo and Identity Europea's lawyer, James Klenicch. She's 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:07.879 an Ohio based attorney who said on the record that 0:17:07.920 --> 0:17:10.480 he took this case with the express purpose of opposing 0:17:10.560 --> 0:17:16.239 Jewish influence. Great great Klenich gets to cross examined her. 0:17:16.800 --> 0:17:19.320 Matt Heimbuck's new lawyer, Josh Smith used to be the 0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:25.360 campaign spokesman for Paul Neilon, wasn't endorsed by Trump at 0:17:25.359 --> 0:17:28.080 one point in his run for Congress, and as also 0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:32.480 just a straight up Nazi who's repeatedly threatened to murder you. Yeah. Yeah, 0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:34.480 One time he spent all day posting pictures of a 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:36.680 deer that he said that he named after me. He said, 0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:38.280 I named this dear Molly. You know, he's been all 0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:40.359 days stalking at posting pictures of it, posting pictures of 0:17:40.400 --> 0:17:42.320 this gun um. And then he posted a picture of 0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:45.880 the dear stage like a lynching. And then he spelled 0:17:45.920 --> 0:17:49.679 my name out in its entrails and posted pictures of that. 0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:52.000 So you're just like a really normal guy. Paul Neilan, 0:17:52.040 --> 0:17:56.400 which totally completely with it. Um Camp, his campaign spokesperson 0:17:56.440 --> 0:18:01.280 when he ran for Congress, was the Holocaust denying um 0:18:01.520 --> 0:18:05.960 former Jew Josh Smith. Josh Smith was born Daniel Nussbaum. 0:18:06.000 --> 0:18:09.720 He changed his name to hide his Jewish past. Oh, 0:18:10.119 --> 0:18:12.840 that is an old story among the Nazis. I mean, 0:18:12.880 --> 0:18:17.400 we talked about the guy who invented uh sea monkeys. 0:18:17.440 --> 0:18:19.959 But yeah, it's basically the same case. And you know 0:18:20.000 --> 0:18:26.160 who else hides there? I okay, Um, this was meant 0:18:26.200 --> 0:18:28.480 to be an ad plug. Normally Sophie would jump in 0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:32.200 and stop me from doing that. None of these advertis 0:18:32.720 --> 0:18:36.640 none of these advertisers are plaintiffs in the current case 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:39.720 that you're covering. That's a guarantee, that is, that is 0:18:39.760 --> 0:18:43.080 an absolute promise. David Duke is not about to sell 0:18:43.119 --> 0:18:56.399 you dick pills. No, no, no, although he could use them. 0:18:56.400 --> 0:19:01.040 We're back, Um, all right, Molly, sorry, please continue? Where 0:19:01.040 --> 0:19:03.320 where are we? I got distracted thinking about David Duke 0:19:03.359 --> 0:19:06.680 trying to sill you dig pills. Yeah, that's not good 0:19:06.720 --> 0:19:09.119 for anybody, right, so everybody gets a cross examine the witness. 0:19:09.200 --> 0:19:12.200 Josh Smith is himbox new lawyer. Um. Colennach used to 0:19:12.240 --> 0:19:13.960 be a lot of these guys lawyers, and then he 0:19:14.040 --> 0:19:16.640 sort of dropped them over time as they became uncooperative. 0:19:16.640 --> 0:19:20.440 They are all these motions to withdraw. Lenach slowly dropped 0:19:20.440 --> 0:19:23.760 clients over the last two years. Um. He dropped cant 0:19:23.800 --> 0:19:25.840 Well as a client because cant Well wouldn't stop posting 0:19:25.840 --> 0:19:30.800 about hurting Roberta Kaplan, who's the lead counsel for the plaintiffs. 0:19:30.840 --> 0:19:34.119 ROBERTA Kaplan, Femish, famous Jewish lesbian lawyer. You know, she 0:19:34.240 --> 0:19:40.159 was on the US v. Windsor the I'm losing it, 0:19:40.240 --> 0:19:43.280 absolutely losing it. The Supreme Court case that gave us 0:19:43.280 --> 0:19:46.359 gay marriage right. Roberta Kaplan brought us gay marriage essentially. 0:19:46.920 --> 0:19:49.880 So she you know, famous Jewish lesbian that is a 0:19:49.920 --> 0:19:51.960 well known portion of her identity. And kett Well kept 0:19:52.000 --> 0:19:55.280 posting um anti Semitic remarks about her, and finally Klennach 0:19:55.400 --> 0:19:57.280 was like, you're making it really hard to be your lawyer, 0:19:57.760 --> 0:20:03.160 and you don't pay me. Um and Kleins dropped Heimbach 0:20:03.200 --> 0:20:07.320 as a client in because Heimbuch just stopped answering his calls. 0:20:09.800 --> 0:20:14.600 Great smart people. Yeah. So Matt Parrot, who's Matt Heimbach's 0:20:15.160 --> 0:20:19.639 father in law, but also the husband of the woman 0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:22.960 that he was sleeping. This complicated. There's a chart. There's 0:20:22.960 --> 0:20:25.639 a chart. Matt Heimbuch and Matt Parrot, um founders of 0:20:25.680 --> 0:20:28.080 the Traditional Worker Party, best friends for a long time. 0:20:28.200 --> 0:20:32.000 Filler's wives, big problems, big problems for them. The Night 0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:34.600 of Wrong Wives, the Knight of the Wrong Wives. So 0:20:36.480 --> 0:20:40.280 Matt Parrot was technically Matt Heimbach's father in law during 0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:45.320 the time period which Heimbach was fucking Parrot's wife. Very 0:20:45.400 --> 0:20:49.760 classy people. Not a great situation. So they lost their lawyer. 0:20:50.000 --> 0:20:54.560 Um Parrot very publicly told all Traditionalist Worker Party members 0:20:54.600 --> 0:20:58.560 to destroy evidence. So we knew that, right that was 0:20:58.600 --> 0:21:00.240 on the record from the beginning that Matt or it 0:21:00.280 --> 0:21:02.000 was like, hey, everyone in t t PP, if you 0:21:02.040 --> 0:21:06.240 did any crimes, delete it right, delete your social media, 0:21:06.359 --> 0:21:10.720 delete your pictures. Like we weren't there, right, that's a crime. 0:21:11.280 --> 0:21:14.840 That's a crime. That is a crime, right there. But 0:21:14.880 --> 0:21:16.960 an interesting thing that we learned to date, but I 0:21:17.000 --> 0:21:22.399 don't think we did know before. Um in November, so 0:21:22.440 --> 0:21:25.440 they played a recording of a conversation between Matt Heimbuch 0:21:26.040 --> 0:21:29.399 and Christopher Cantwell, And this was during examination of Heimbuch, 0:21:29.440 --> 0:21:31.800 and Heimbuch was on the stand. Um, and they're talking 0:21:31.840 --> 0:21:34.040 about like, you know, you didn't produce discovery. You said 0:21:34.040 --> 0:21:35.840 you lost your phone, this, that and the other. You know, 0:21:35.880 --> 0:21:40.399 after you beat your wife, she threw away your phone. Um. 0:21:40.440 --> 0:21:42.920 So he said, I couldn't turn over my social media 0:21:42.920 --> 0:21:45.520 accounts because my wife deleted them because we had an 0:21:45.600 --> 0:21:47.760 argument about me taking out the trash, right, Like, we 0:21:47.800 --> 0:21:50.160 had this domestic dispute about the trash, and she deleted 0:21:50.160 --> 0:21:53.600