1 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 1: Welcome back to it could happen here the show that 2 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:12,119 Speaker 1: is only introduced competently when either someone besides me is 3 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 1: the one hosting the episode, or when I have a 4 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 1: guest that I feel embarrassed about being incompetent in front 5 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:22,600 Speaker 1: of and and this is this is the latter case, 6 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 1: because today I'm talking with uh, my friend and admired colleague, 7 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 1: Molly Conjure. Molly, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. 8 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 1: I got to do that like a professional. Welcome to 9 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: the show. That's like an NPR shit right. I know 10 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:40,280 Speaker 1: people have been saying on the Twitch stream that I 11 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 1: have a very soothing NPR style. Boy, you would be great. 12 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 1: I would love to hear you uh talking in NPR 13 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:49,640 Speaker 1: about how it's it's rad that those those people broke 14 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 1: the windows on those police cars or whatever. No, I 15 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 1: can't be allowed in respectable spaces. I can't be allowed there. 16 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:56,640 Speaker 1: They let me talk on a panel at Harvard one time, 17 00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 1: and I accidentally said fuck in front of a bunch 18 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 1: of people. I mean, I assume Harvard students know a 19 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 1: funk word or two. Speaking of funk words, there's a 20 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:10,120 Speaker 1: couple of funk words who are under trial, right now 21 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:17,480 Speaker 1: for inciting mass violence that led to human death and suffering. Um, 22 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 1: you wanna you want to give us the overview we're 23 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:23,679 Speaker 1: we're talking today about, you know, the Unite the Right 24 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 1: rally and Charles Gill in two thousand seventeen that led 25 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:28,639 Speaker 1: to three deaths, one as the result of direct violence 26 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 1: had their higher who was murdered murdered by the fascist 27 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 1: James Field currently in prison for forever. Um, Yeah, forever 28 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:40,400 Speaker 1: that you know, his trial concluded a while ago. Um, 29 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 1: But there has been churning through the legal system, a 30 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 1: trial against Richard Spencer Jason Kessler, who was the main organizer. Um, 31 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 1: can't well, there's other uh plaintiffs right, Oh, a lot 32 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 1: of a lot of fascists about you know, all of 33 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: the things that they did, the fact that they clearly 34 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 1: intended this to be a violent uh riot assault whatever like, 35 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 1: they wanted to have it be a fucking lynching essentially, 36 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:13,119 Speaker 1: and there's a lot of evidence, including things they said 37 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:18,400 Speaker 1: to each other about building armies to murder people. Um. Anyway, Molly, 38 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:19,960 Speaker 1: you want to take it from here. I think I've 39 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 1: introduced the situation. There's a trial going on. You have 40 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 1: been listening to every day of it and covering it 41 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:28,520 Speaker 1: on Twitch very ably. UM, and so I just kind 42 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:30,360 Speaker 1: of wanted to catch up with you. You You also wrote 43 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 1: an article in Slate with our friend Emily Gortchynsky about UM, 44 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 1: what's like largely the jury selection of the trial. So 45 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:40,359 Speaker 1: I was wondering if you could just kind of give 46 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 1: us an overview of what's happened so far if your 47 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:47,119 Speaker 1: thoughts on it. Um. Yeah, that that seems that seems good. Yeah. 48 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:49,960 Speaker 1: So there's just right at the outset, this is a 49 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 1: civil trial, right, This is not a criminal trial. No 50 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:53,920 Speaker 1: one's going to the No one's going to jail at 51 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: the end of this. Some of the jail call it 52 00:02:57,720 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 1: that the Who's goal. We call it the Who's goal 53 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 1: in the show. That's the property, Okay, Um, some of 54 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 1: them already in jail obviously, Like you said, James Fields 55 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 1: is serving twenty nine life sentences to life. It's a 56 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 1: lot of life. So he was. He was charged in 57 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 1: in Virginia State Court by the Commonwealth of Virginia. He 58 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: was convicted at trial of first degree murder and several 59 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:23,080 Speaker 1: counts of aggravated malicious wounding. Um. He was. So that 60 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:25,960 Speaker 1: trial happened in he actually went to trial for that, 61 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:28,639 Speaker 1: but then he pleaded guilty in federal courts. He was 62 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 1: charged in two separate courts for the same underlying events, 63 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 1: and in federal court he pleaded guilty to twenty nine 64 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 1: federal hate crimes. Um he pleaded guilty to hate crimes. 65 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 1: So there's no debate about whether these were hate crimes, right, 66 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 1: and he pleaded guilty too. He pleaded guilty to avoid 67 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 1: the death penalty because a hate crime, murder is a 68 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 1: capital crime. So in this lawsuit, right, this this civil 69 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 1: lawsuit against Deep Breath, Jason Kessler, Richard Spencer, Christopher Campbell, 70 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 1: James alex Field, Gang Got America, Andrew England, Moonbase Holdings, 71 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 1: Robert asmod Or, Ray Nathan to Ego, Elliott Klein, Identity Europea, 72 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 1: Matthew Parrot, Matthew Hindbuch, Traditionalist Worker Party, Michael Hill, Michael 73 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 1: Tubsley of the South, Jeff Scoop, Now that the National 74 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 1: Socialist Movement Nationals Front, Augustus Invictus, Reternal Order of the 75 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 1: Alt Knights, Mike Kinevich, Loyal White Nights of the KKK 76 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 1: East Coast Knights of the KKK East Coast Knights of 77 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 1: the true Invisible Empire. Several of those parties have been 78 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 1: dismissed from the suit. That's a lot, it's a lot 79 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 1: of bad guys, right, Um, several of those parties have 80 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:29,120 Speaker 1: been dismissed from the suit. Augustus and Victus defaulted Pine dismission. 81 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:31,720 Speaker 1: That means the fact that he defaulted, Does that mean 82 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 1: he was like, yes, right, he offered no defense, So 83 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 1: that's what that means. Yeah, I mean he's been dealing 84 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 1: with a lot. What would he He's had some problems, 85 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 1: he's been jails. He abducted his wife at gunpoint. Um. 86 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 1: I think he's out of jail now, but he's had 87 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:52,920 Speaker 1: some personal problems. He's had some personal problems. So the 88 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 1: underlying claim with the lawsuit is a section complaint a 89 00:04:57,120 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 1: conspiracy to deprive people of civil rights. Um. This is 90 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 1: ndamentally at it's at its core an anti clan statute. Right. 91 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 1: It was designed to disrupt clan organizing. Um. And that's 92 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 1: kind of what it's being used for here. Right. This 93 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 1: is so the lawsuit was brought by by nine plaintiffs 94 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 1: who were harmed people who got hurt at the rally. 95 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:20,920 Speaker 1: Most of the plaintiffs were physically injured in the car attack, 96 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:24,039 Speaker 1: although not all of them, um, but these are people 97 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 1: who are seeking damages, right like for all all the 98 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 1: emotional weight, all the sort of social ramifications. Fundamentally, this 99 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 1: is a case about damages. So the jury is going 100 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 1: to say, Okay, these people were harmed. Do we believe 101 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 1: they were harmed by a conspiracy to commit acts of violence? 102 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:44,160 Speaker 1: Conspiracy to commit racially motivated accidents? Right, so all of 103 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 1: those elements have to improve. And there was k guys 104 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:50,480 Speaker 1: want to do racial violence when they assaulted people? Yeah? 105 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 1: Was their conspiracy? Was it motivated by racial animus? And 106 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:58,359 Speaker 1: were overt acts of violence committed? And did those acts 107 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:01,719 Speaker 1: of violence harm these people in a way that entitles 108 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:05,280 Speaker 1: them to damages? That's all the jury has to decide. Right, 109 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 1: should be an open shed case nowhere, but it does 110 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:14,039 Speaker 1: seem like kind of an open and shut case. It does, 111 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:16,840 Speaker 1: right So, because if there are people out thereho are 112 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 1: not familiar with the events of that day, a lot 113 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:23,920 Speaker 1: of alt right groups, you know, overt neo Nazi organizations, 114 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:27,280 Speaker 1: the literal Clan, the literal American Nazi Party, like Neo 115 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 1: Confederate secession. David's duke was there. David Duke was there, 116 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 1: David Duke, who Elliott Klein described as an ideological grandfather 117 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 1: when he was asking other organizers that he can invite him. Um, 118 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 1: these guys came together, they came to Charlottesville. They brawldened 119 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 1: the streets, they beat people, They hit them with shields. 120 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:49,720 Speaker 1: A literal clan wizard fired his gun at a black 121 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:53,479 Speaker 1: band while screaming die N word. Well, now, okay, it 122 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 1: seems like you're reaching a bit to call that racially motivated. Well, 123 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:04,840 Speaker 1: that's something they're trying to litigate. So you're probably familiar 124 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:07,279 Speaker 1: with the video of DeAndre Harris being beaten nearly to 125 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 1: death by mothers of several different hate groups. Right, So 126 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 1: one of the guys that beat him was a tv 127 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 1: a P member. One of them was a Lead of 128 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 1: the South member, and they worked together to beat this 129 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:19,240 Speaker 1: young man nearly to death while he was lying on 130 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: the ground. And so that today they were talking about like, well, 131 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 1: can we really say that was racially motivated? You know, 132 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 1: can we really say can we really say? Yeah? Yeah, 133 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 1: I think we can. I think we can. Um. You know, 134 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 1: his mother has been on podcasts since his conviction. I'm 135 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 1: referring to Jacob Goodwin, the t TPP member, the man 136 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 1: who used a t w P riot shield provided to 137 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 1: him by Matthew Heinbach to beat this young man. His 138 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 1: mother goes on Nazi podcast still to describe how her 139 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 1: son is a martyr for the white cause. There's no ambiguity, 140 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 1: But where are you getting racially motivated from that moment? Right? Like, 141 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 1: there's a there's a picture of her with her arm 142 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 1: around her son. Her son's like seven feet tall. He's 143 00:07:57,360 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 1: a giant boy to get her arm around her, large 144 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 1: adults and he's wearing a T shirt with a giant 145 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 1: picture of George Lincoln Rockwell on it. Ah, you love 146 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 1: the deep cuts, so you know. And Billy Roper's Christmas party, Yeah, 147 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 1: another another Nazi. Right, So there's not a lot of 148 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 1: ambiguity here for the average person, but so you know, 149 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:21,120 Speaker 1: like you were saying, Emily and I wrote about jury selection, 150 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 1: jury selection is um so corporate seedings are generally speaking 151 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 1: open to the public. Anyone can go to their local 152 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 1: courthouse and you can sit through a trial. You can 153 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:32,320 Speaker 1: sit through the war deer process, you can see how 154 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 1: a jury gets chosen. You can go trial hopping, get wasted, 155 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: re entertainment. As long as you say quietly, they can't 156 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:47,440 Speaker 1: make you leave. It's like a library's very discouraging because 157 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 1: the whole point is to picturs who have never encountered reality. 158 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:55,840 Speaker 1: You pick people who don't have any opinions, right, because 159 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 1: you want them to be able to be impartial. And 160 00:08:57,559 --> 00:08:59,079 Speaker 1: the best way to picture your jury is going to 161 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 1: be impartial is to pay people who don't have any opinions. 162 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 1: And if you don't have any opinions on whether or 163 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 1: not it's good for Nazis to beat people in the streets, 164 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:10,679 Speaker 1: I would say that in and of itself as an 165 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:13,840 Speaker 1: opinion that you already have right the ability do not 166 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 1: have an opinion about that. The jury selection took three 167 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 1: days because they had to go through this process of 168 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 1: speaking to each juror individually. Usually they'll they'll do it 169 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 1: in batches where they ask questions of people in batches, um. 170 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:28,200 Speaker 1: But this was so sensitive they didn't want to taint 171 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:29,720 Speaker 1: the jury pool, so they did it one by one. 172 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:33,199 Speaker 1: So it took three days, UM, and they chose jurors 173 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:36,439 Speaker 1: who didn't have opinions about the existence of racism in 174 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 1: the United States. Okay, that seems unbiased. Again, it's this 175 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 1: thing you keep seeing where it's like, well, we can't 176 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 1: let people have a bias, so it has to be 177 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 1: people who have never heard of white supremacy, which is like, 178 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: then that's a bias in favor of white supremacy. But 179 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: of course that's the default of the system. It's like 180 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:56,840 Speaker 1: that's the tear, right, Like you stick white supremacy on 181 00:09:56,840 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 1: the scale and you tear it, but then you add 182 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:02,560 Speaker 1: aware nous of white supremacy and suddenly there's weight on it. 183 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 1: You know. It's sorry, it's very fresh, I know, you know, 184 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 1: it's frustrating, and yeah, I shouldn't frustrating to sit through 185 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 1: listening to them to ask people, you know, because they 186 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:14,079 Speaker 1: they had to fill out a questionnaire ahead of time 187 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 1: so so they can sort of sift through obvious knows um. 188 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: And one of the questions was, you know, how do 189 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:22,080 Speaker 1: you feel about how concerned are you about these different 190 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:24,920 Speaker 1: kinds of prejudice, you know, prejudice against black people, prejudice 191 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 1: against Hispanic people, prejudice against Jewish people, are prejudice against 192 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:30,200 Speaker 1: white people, And a lot of people indicated that they 193 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 1: were very concerned about anti white racism and a lot 194 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 1: of jurors were asked follow up questions about like, well, 195 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: why aren't you more concerned about anti white racism. Why 196 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 1: did you say you don't care about that because it's 197 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 1: not real. Yeah, because I've never seen it in my 198 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:50,959 Speaker 1: entire life. Um, but okay, but we seated a jury. 199 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:52,320 Speaker 1: We did see the jury, and there were you know, 200 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 1: there's always concerned in a case like this that you 201 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 1: just won't be able to get an impartial jury. But 202 00:10:56,880 --> 00:11:01,479 Speaker 1: we got it could be worse, right, it could be worse. Um. 203 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 1: There is a guy on the jury who said that 204 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 1: in high school he was the victim of a racially 205 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 1: motivated attack by by a Samoan person. Um, because they 206 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 1: didn't like white people. M hmm, I wonder what that 207 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:18,960 Speaker 1: person was doing. Slash say, black people who believe that 208 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 1: they have a right to exist without being subjected to 209 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 1: racism not impartial, can't be on the jury. But a 210 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:26,280 Speaker 1: white guy who says he was the victim of a 211 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:33,439 Speaker 1: hate crime because someone didn't like Howley's God. So people 212 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:35,560 Speaker 1: talking about like I don't like it when folks not 213 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 1: from my island come here and function up and make 214 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:40,960 Speaker 1: it expensive. Yeah, it's anti white racist. He was living 215 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:46,439 Speaker 1: in incredible, incredible, So you know, it could be a worster, 216 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:48,520 Speaker 1: it could be a worse jury, but it's not ideal. 217 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 1: Um god, where did we go from there? It's been 218 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:54,719 Speaker 1: it's been a little bit of a blur. Um. So, 219 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:59,439 Speaker 1: Cantwell and Spencer don't have lawyers, right? Well? Yeah, okay, 220 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 1: so right because can't Well can't can't Well is for 221 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 1: people who aren't aware can't Well is representing himself, and 222 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 1: tell correct me if I'm wrong here. But he started 223 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:10,680 Speaker 1: by acknowledging the old saying that a person who represents 224 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 1: themselves as a fool as a lawyer, but then said, 225 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:15,880 Speaker 1: but I'm not a fool in this case. Yeah, he said, 226 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:18,840 Speaker 1: you may have heard this, but that's not true here. 227 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 1: That's not the case here. Unbelievable. And I didn't even 228 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:28,560 Speaker 1: stay in a Holiday and Express last night. Oh my god. 229 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 1: Really he seriously made a Holiday and Express joke while 230 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 1: he was oh my god. But the follow up, the 231 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 1: follow up was, but I did stay in the Central 232 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 1: Virginia Regional Jail because that is where he stays. Yeah, 233 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 1: I mean, because he's he's in prison for sexually or 234 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:49,720 Speaker 1: not for for harassing and threatening and blackmailing another Nazi, right, yeah, yeah. 235 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:53,680 Speaker 1: He was transported here from the federal prison and Mary 236 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:56,760 Speaker 1: in Illinois, where he is a guest until next Christmas. 237 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 1: Um so he had filed motion is to exclude the 238 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:03,200 Speaker 1: fact that he's currently incarcerated, as is his right right 239 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:06,080 Speaker 1: late like if you are a yeah, yeah, absolutely involved 240 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:08,560 Speaker 1: in a you know, in a criminal case or in 241 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:10,600 Speaker 1: a in a simple case, it is it is your 242 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 1: right to have the jury not see you in a jumpsuit. 243 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:16,679 Speaker 1: And I respect that, I think perfectly absolutely. Yeah. So 244 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:18,439 Speaker 1: he went to great links to make sure that the 245 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 1: jury would never see him in cuffs, that the marshals 246 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 1: wouldn't bring him in in irons, that he would change 247 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 1: before the jury arrived at the coronels. All very reasonable 248 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 1: and no one's going to get to talk about it, 249 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:28,960 Speaker 1: but he brought it up in his own opening statement. 250 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 1: I'm here from prison. I'm here from prison. By the way, 251 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:36,440 Speaker 1: I'm in prison for the other crimes I committed. But 252 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 1: they're not related to these crimes. They're not related to 253 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:43,200 Speaker 1: these crimes except to the extent that he's unable to 254 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 1: shut the funk up. He's only in prison because he 255 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 1: emailed the FBI or recording him him doing the crime 256 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 1: that he's in prison for. He's he's really a very 257 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 1: cunning man. But I think, you know so, as much 258 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 1: as those crimes aren't relevant to this case, I think 259 00:13:57,040 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 1: it is very relevant to his trial strategy, right, that 260 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:02,319 Speaker 1: he has this belief that all the things he did 261 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 1: that were wrong they were right. Actually, he just needs 262 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 1: to explain to us why he did them and then 263 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 1: we'll understand. Right, he's in prison because he tried to 264 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:13,680 Speaker 1: talk his way out of a thing that he did 265 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:17,120 Speaker 1: that was wrong by telling everyone that he did do it. Yes, 266 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 1: I did it because I had to. You didn't have 267 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 1: to make an extortionate threat to rape another man's wife 268 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:26,240 Speaker 1: in front of their children. You didn't actually have to 269 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 1: do that. Yeah, that's really I mean I would I 270 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 1: might argue, and perhaps I'm an extremist, but there's no 271 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 1: situation in which you would ever have to do that. 272 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 1: Nobody made you email the FBI about how you did that, 273 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:42,040 Speaker 1: but you did. Actually I would have told you that 274 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 1: was a bad idea. I mean, there's there's some snarky 275 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 1: stuff in some in some of the affidavits about how 276 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 1: like he called the Keen Police Department trying to tattletale 277 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 1: on other people so often that they were tired of 278 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 1: taking his calls. Unbelievable. What an amazing man like he's 279 00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 1: he's a piece of ship, but he is legitimately an 280 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 1: incredib person. I mean if he wrote this, no one 281 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 1: would believe it. Right, This is so heavy handed, it's 282 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 1: so goofy, Like when he was paying Elmer in guns 283 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 1: his law he paid his lawyer in guns, and then 284 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 1: he ran out of guns and had his lawyer stopped 285 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 1: working for him. Yeah, he he doesn't have a lawyer 286 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 1: anymore because he ran out of guns to pawn. Although 287 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:21,720 Speaker 1: I guess he can't anymore because now he's a convicted 288 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 1: I gotta say, running out of guns to pawn for 289 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 1: your lawyer, it's pretty cocked. He even had to sell 290 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 1: the bucket of loose bullets he used to keep us 291 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:37,960 Speaker 1: a prop on his desk, I mean, really devastating stuff. Um, 292 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 1: so he doesn't you're you're down to the brad, You're 293 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:44,200 Speaker 1: down to the rails when you're two with that really 294 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 1: the bottom of the barrel. So he's proceeding pro sae, which, unfortunately, 295 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 1: unfortunately for everyone involved, means he gets to talk a 296 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: lot a lot, a lot, a lot, which means he 297 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 1: gets to cross examine his own witnesses. Right. So the 298 00:15:57,360 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 1: first two witnesses the plaintiffs put on were two of 299 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 1: their plaintiffs, right, two young people who were injured in 300 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 1: these events. The first witness they put on Natalie its 301 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:08,520 Speaker 1: the UV, a student who had her skull fractured in 302 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:10,600 Speaker 1: the car attack. Um. She had to learn how to 303 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 1: walk again, she had to see a neurologist to retrain 304 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 1: her eyes to track movement. I mean, she was very 305 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 1: badly injured. Um. And so she testified at length about 306 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:23,120 Speaker 1: the damage that was done to her. Because again, this 307 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 1: is a case about damages. So the jury needs to 308 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:27,600 Speaker 1: learn who is this person, what happened to them, what 309 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 1: did it cost them physically, mentally, emotionally, financially um, Because 310 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 1: what they're gonna be asked to do is to put 311 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 1: a dollar amount on it. So they had to meet 312 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 1: her and hear about her injuries, um, and hear about 313 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 1: her motivation for being there. Um. You know, she's a 314 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 1: young queer Latino woman as she's the first college student 315 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 1: in her family, and she's a very impressive young woman, 316 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 1: and she was very composed of the stand um. As 317 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 1: awful as the content was. Um. But then every single 318 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 1: one of the defendants gets to cross examine her. Richard 319 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 1: Spencer gets to cross examine her. Christopher camp Well gets 320 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 1: to cross exam and her. James Klennich, who took the case. 321 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 1: He's Kessler, Demigo and Identity Europea's lawyer, James Klenicch. She's 322 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:07,879 Speaker 1: an Ohio based attorney who said on the record that 323 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 1: he took this case with the express purpose of opposing 324 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:16,239 Speaker 1: Jewish influence. Great great Klenich gets to cross examined her. 325 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 1: Matt Heimbuck's new lawyer, Josh Smith used to be the 326 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:25,360 Speaker 1: campaign spokesman for Paul Neilon, wasn't endorsed by Trump at 327 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 1: one point in his run for Congress, and as also 328 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 1: just a straight up Nazi who's repeatedly threatened to murder you. Yeah. Yeah, 329 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 1: One time he spent all day posting pictures of a 330 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:36,680 Speaker 1: deer that he said that he named after me. He said, 331 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 1: I named this dear Molly. You know, he's been all 332 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:40,359 Speaker 1: days stalking at posting pictures of it, posting pictures of 333 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 1: this gun um. And then he posted a picture of 334 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:45,880 Speaker 1: the dear stage like a lynching. And then he spelled 335 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:49,679 Speaker 1: my name out in its entrails and posted pictures of that. 336 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 1: So you're just like a really normal guy. Paul Neilan, 337 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:56,400 Speaker 1: which totally completely with it. Um Camp, his campaign spokesperson 338 00:17:56,440 --> 00:18:01,280 Speaker 1: when he ran for Congress, was the Holocaust denying um 339 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:05,960 Speaker 1: former Jew Josh Smith. Josh Smith was born Daniel Nussbaum. 340 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 1: He changed his name to hide his Jewish past. Oh, 341 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 1: that is an old story among the Nazis. I mean, 342 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:17,400 Speaker 1: we talked about the guy who invented uh sea monkeys. 343 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:19,959 Speaker 1: But yeah, it's basically the same case. And you know 344 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:26,160 Speaker 1: who else hides there? I okay, Um, this was meant 345 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 1: to be an ad plug. Normally Sophie would jump in 346 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:32,200 Speaker 1: and stop me from doing that. None of these advertis 347 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:36,640 Speaker 1: none of these advertisers are plaintiffs in the current case 348 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:39,720 Speaker 1: that you're covering. That's a guarantee, that is, that is 349 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 1: an absolute promise. David Duke is not about to sell 350 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:56,399 Speaker 1: you dick pills. No, no, no, although he could use them. 351 00:18:56,400 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 1: We're back, Um, all right, Molly, sorry, please continue? Where 352 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 1: where are we? I got distracted thinking about David Duke 353 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:06,680 Speaker 1: trying to sill you dig pills. Yeah, that's not good 354 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:09,119 Speaker 1: for anybody, right, so everybody gets a cross examine the witness. 355 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:12,200 Speaker 1: Josh Smith is himbox new lawyer. Um. Colennach used to 356 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:13,960 Speaker 1: be a lot of these guys lawyers, and then he 357 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:16,640 Speaker 1: sort of dropped them over time as they became uncooperative. 358 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:20,440 Speaker 1: They are all these motions to withdraw. Lenach slowly dropped 359 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:23,760 Speaker 1: clients over the last two years. Um. He dropped cant 360 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 1: Well as a client because cant Well wouldn't stop posting 361 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 1: about hurting Roberta Kaplan, who's the lead counsel for the plaintiffs. 362 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:34,119 Speaker 1: ROBERTA Kaplan, Femish, famous Jewish lesbian lawyer. You know, she 363 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:40,159 Speaker 1: was on the US v. Windsor the I'm losing it, 364 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 1: absolutely losing it. The Supreme Court case that gave us 365 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:46,359 Speaker 1: gay marriage right. Roberta Kaplan brought us gay marriage essentially. 366 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:49,880 Speaker 1: So she you know, famous Jewish lesbian that is a 367 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 1: well known portion of her identity. And kett Well kept 368 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 1: posting um anti Semitic remarks about her, and finally Klennach 369 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:57,280 Speaker 1: was like, you're making it really hard to be your lawyer, 370 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:03,160 Speaker 1: and you don't pay me. Um and Kleins dropped Heimbach 371 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 1: as a client in because Heimbuch just stopped answering his calls. 372 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 1: Great smart people. Yeah. So Matt Parrot, who's Matt Heimbach's 373 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:19,639 Speaker 1: father in law, but also the husband of the woman 374 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:22,960 Speaker 1: that he was sleeping. This complicated. There's a chart. There's 375 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:25,639 Speaker 1: a chart. Matt Heimbuch and Matt Parrot, um founders of 376 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 1: the Traditional Worker Party, best friends for a long time. 377 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 1: Filler's wives, big problems, big problems for them. The Night 378 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 1: of Wrong Wives, the Knight of the Wrong Wives. So 379 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 1: Matt Parrot was technically Matt Heimbach's father in law during 380 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 1: the time period which Heimbach was fucking Parrot's wife. Very 381 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 1: classy people. Not a great situation. So they lost their lawyer. 382 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 1: Um Parrot very publicly told all Traditionalist Worker Party members 383 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:58,560 Speaker 1: to destroy evidence. So we knew that, right that was 384 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:00,240 Speaker 1: on the record from the beginning that Matt or it 385 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: was like, hey, everyone in t t PP, if you 386 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:06,240 Speaker 1: did any crimes, delete it right, delete your social media, 387 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 1: delete your pictures. Like we weren't there, right, that's a crime. 388 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 1: That's a crime. That is a crime, right there. But 389 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:16,960 Speaker 1: an interesting thing that we learned to date, but I 390 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:22,399 Speaker 1: don't think we did know before. Um in November, so 391 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:25,440 Speaker 1: they played a recording of a conversation between Matt Heimbuch 392 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:29,399 Speaker 1: and Christopher Cantwell, And this was during examination of Heimbuch, 393 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 1: and Heimbuch was on the stand. Um, and they're talking 394 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 1: about like, you know, you didn't produce discovery. You said 395 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 1: you lost your phone, this, that and the other. You know, 396 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:40,399 Speaker 1: after you beat your wife, she threw away your phone. Um. 397 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:42,920 Speaker 1: So he said, I couldn't turn over my social media 398 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 1: accounts because my wife deleted them because we had an 399 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 1: argument about me taking out the trash, right, Like, we 400 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:50,160 Speaker 1: had this domestic dispute about the trash, and she deleted 401 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 1: all my accounts, so I couldn't turn them over. Um. Well, 402 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 1: today we found out that he told cant Well in 403 00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:58,679 Speaker 1: ten so a year after the lawsuit was filed. When 404 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 1: a lawsuit was filed against you, you have a legal 405 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 1: obligation to not do things like this. He told can't 406 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:09,119 Speaker 1: Well that after a conversation with his lawyer, on the 407 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:16,680 Speaker 1: advice of his lawyer, he deleted those accounts. Oh oh, 408 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:20,399 Speaker 1: there's just a record of him criming. Yeah, that's a crime, 409 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 1: and it also a crime for his lawyer to have 410 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 1: advised him to do that. Great. Um again, that's there's 411 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:31,040 Speaker 1: no direct evidence who told him to do that. But 412 00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:32,879 Speaker 1: we do have a recording of him saying a lawyer 413 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:34,960 Speaker 1: told him to So that's not great. That's not a 414 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 1: good situation. Is he going to get charged with anything 415 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:41,159 Speaker 1: or that? I am curious. You know, I'm not a lawyer. 416 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,120 Speaker 1: Just for everyone listening, I'm not a lawyer. I didn't 417 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:45,160 Speaker 1: go to law school. I didn't even finish undergrad I'm 418 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 1: not a lawyer. Um, but I have listened to a lawyers. 419 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:53,959 Speaker 1: But I am I am curious. What with what frequency 420 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:58,080 Speaker 1: can perjury charges be sought in a civil case? Right, 421 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:02,160 Speaker 1: it's still under oath, it is still perjury, But how 422 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:06,480 Speaker 1: common is that to be pursued because they're perjuring. Yeah, 423 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 1: they're for sure perjuring, just doing the thing the right 424 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 1: always does, which is trust that the law will never 425 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:15,640 Speaker 1: actually come after them for their many crimes. And there's 426 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:18,720 Speaker 1: there's a good chance they'll be right, you know, Like 427 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 1: Hinmbuch said, you know when he was asked, have you 428 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:23,920 Speaker 1: ever provided security for Richard Spencer? And he said no, Okay, 429 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 1: well there's like a hundred pictures of you doing that 430 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 1: at multiple events. Um. You know, they're claiming they don't 431 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:31,680 Speaker 1: know each other, like here's all these pictures of you 432 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 1: guys hanging out. Um, God, where else are we? Um? Yeah, 433 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 1: I'm curious, you know one thing that kind of especially 434 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,200 Speaker 1: because of the written house thing. And we're actually we'll 435 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:48,960 Speaker 1: be talking to lawyer tomorrow night about or tomorrow about 436 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 1: the written house thing. Um. Every cool person shares the 437 00:23:52,560 --> 00:24:00,439 Speaker 1: same lawyer. Uh um. But yeah, because that, I'm kind 438 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:02,679 Speaker 1: of curious, what what is your what since do you 439 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 1: get of this judge? There's no good judges, there's no 440 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:10,480 Speaker 1: good judges. But it could be Yeah, I mean, I'm 441 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,160 Speaker 1: not saying, but how is it could be? It could 442 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:15,920 Speaker 1: be a lot worse. You know, Trump appointed a shipload 443 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 1: of federal judges pretty recently. Judgment is eighty five years old. 444 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 1: He's a Clinton Appointee's a Clinton appointee, so it's could 445 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,680 Speaker 1: be worse. He's been on the bench, you know since 446 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:29,959 Speaker 1: I was an elementary school. Um. And he's very old, 447 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:32,480 Speaker 1: and he doesn't he has it's a little bit hard 448 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:36,920 Speaker 1: of hearing, but he's not stupid. Um. And there's a 449 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:40,160 Speaker 1: lot of people, I think we are really frustrated with 450 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:42,400 Speaker 1: some of the things he's allowing to happen. He's he's 451 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:45,720 Speaker 1: really allowing these these pro sed defendants to sort of 452 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:49,280 Speaker 1: run rough shot over the procedure. But you know, like 453 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 1: I said before we started recording, it's really hard to apply. 454 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:58,159 Speaker 1: I get like the your sense of how things are 455 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 1: supposed to work doesn't really apply lie in court, right, 456 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 1: there's a very rigid, sort of outdated set of rules 457 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 1: and procedures, and they don't feel right. They don't feel 458 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:10,120 Speaker 1: logical or reasonable or fair. But there is a specific 459 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 1: way that it works, and it is hard to watch, 460 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:13,879 Speaker 1: especially if you've never seen it before. And because of 461 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 1: the emotionally fraught nature of this, it's particularly frustrating to 462 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,080 Speaker 1: be to be listening on this line and saying, like, 463 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 1: why are they allowed to do this to this witness? Well, 464 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,879 Speaker 1: legally you can cross examine your witnesses, even if you 465 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,199 Speaker 1: are the person who hurt them. It's not a good system, 466 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:33,360 Speaker 1: but it is how it works. Um. But he's um. 467 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,000 Speaker 1: And I also think there's there's concern about appellate issues, 468 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,040 Speaker 1: there's concern about mistrial, and so they're really going out 469 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 1: of their way not to give anyone any excuse to say, well, 470 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 1: this was not fair to me. They're gonna say it anyway, 471 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,879 Speaker 1: but they they're really letting them have a long leash 472 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,240 Speaker 1: in a way that feels very bad, but at the 473 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 1: same time I can kind of understand it. Yeah, I 474 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 1: wish they hadn't done so much Holocaust denial, like on 475 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:02,200 Speaker 1: on the road, that would be good. They put an 476 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:06,479 Speaker 1: expert on today, who's um Dr Debrah Lipstad, who's an 477 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,760 Speaker 1: expert in Holocaust denial, to sort of talk about what 478 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:13,440 Speaker 1: the Holocaust is. I guess in case the jury doesn't know. God, 479 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 1: that's bleak, I mean, that's sucking bleak because they chose 480 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:21,679 Speaker 1: this jury based on them never having heard of Jews. 481 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:25,359 Speaker 1: You know, it's a bunch of like middle aged people 482 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:27,680 Speaker 1: from Green County who have never met a Jewish person. 483 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,399 Speaker 1: So they had to put on a professor to say, okay, 484 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,119 Speaker 1: when he says gas the K words, we're talking about 485 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:36,240 Speaker 1: gas chambers. Gas chambers from the Holocaust. They didn't start 486 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 1: out with gas chambers. They started with mass shootings. But 487 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,040 Speaker 1: it was too messy. I mean she was literally recounting 488 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 1: sort of the evolution from the Ensans group and you know, 489 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,760 Speaker 1: shootings in the fields to the because of the gas chambers. 490 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 1: Like we had to talk all the way through it, 491 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:55,400 Speaker 1: um because it seems unnecessary, but again for the jury, 492 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:59,240 Speaker 1: it might be necessary. And so when Kasmador Robert don't 493 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,320 Speaker 1: want to take anything for granted, you know, yeah, right, 494 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 1: and you really have to sort of lay out these connections, right, 495 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,240 Speaker 1: because the idea is you have to prove a conspiracy, 496 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 1: and you have to prove the conspiracy was racially motivated. UM. 497 00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 1: And so when asma door is the racist wizard name 498 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 1: that UM Robert Ray uses when he writes for the 499 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 1: Daily Stormer. When Asmador keeps saying, We're going to gas 500 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:20,399 Speaker 1: the K words, everyone knows what I mean when I 501 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 1: say that, right, yes, yeah, okay, UM. You know he 502 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:26,720 Speaker 1: keeps saying, you know, the plan is to gas the 503 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:28,720 Speaker 1: K words, you know, g T, K R W N 504 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,520 Speaker 1: UM guess the K words race war. Now he keeps saying, 505 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 1: he keeps saying, keeps saying it. And then the Torch March, 506 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:36,320 Speaker 1: he Pepper sprays a bunch of people, which he is 507 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,440 Speaker 1: currently a fugitive of justice for UM. He's UM, he's 508 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:44,840 Speaker 1: wanted for felony in Almarrale County. He's missing UM. So 509 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:46,800 Speaker 1: he says he's going to do it, then he does it, 510 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 1: and then afterwards he's on video saying, yeah, I guessed 511 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:53,240 Speaker 1: half a dozen k words, so you can see from 512 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:55,000 Speaker 1: A to B to C. And then we have this 513 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,919 Speaker 1: expert saying, Okay, what he's saying is a direct reference 514 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:02,800 Speaker 1: to the Holocaust. Right. UM, it's like he's like you said, 515 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:05,480 Speaker 1: it's pretty open and shut. It's pretty straightforward A tow 516 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:09,080 Speaker 1: B two c. Um. You know we have these discord leaks, um, 517 00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:11,160 Speaker 1: if you want to browse them. They're on Unicorn Riot 518 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:14,679 Speaker 1: and almost immediately after the rally, Unicorn Riot had these 519 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:18,440 Speaker 1: discord leaks. UM. The entire server, the Charlesville two point 520 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:20,639 Speaker 1: oh server where they planned this out, where they're in 521 00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:23,120 Speaker 1: the discord saying yeah, it's gonna be so great. We're 522 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:24,920 Speaker 1: gonna do just so much violence. We're gonna we're gonna 523 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 1: hur people, We're gonna bring shields, we're gonna bring base 524 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:30,960 Speaker 1: really explicitly talking about the plan, making jokes about hitting 525 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:36,960 Speaker 1: people with cars. Um, now the entire discord will be admitted. UM, 526 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,560 Speaker 1: it has been authenticated. They received another copy of it 527 00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:43,360 Speaker 1: via subpoena directly from discord. It's real. It's evidence. UM, 528 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:47,720 Speaker 1: as much as can't well doesn't like that, but more 529 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 1: than that, UM, we have you know, some first person authentication. 530 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 1: We heard deposition testimony from Elliott Klein's ex girlfriend, Um, 531 00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 1: the woman that he was living with in seventeen so 532 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,280 Speaker 1: in the summer seen he was living with this woman 533 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 1: that he had just met and entered into a romantic 534 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:08,560 Speaker 1: relationship with. Um. She has since left the movement. She 535 00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:10,480 Speaker 1: has a lot of regret about her involvement in that 536 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:14,160 Speaker 1: time period. And you know, there's little people have a 537 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:15,840 Speaker 1: lot of mixed feelings about what it means to leave 538 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:17,480 Speaker 1: the movement, what it means to a tone, Is it 539 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 1: possible to redeem yourself for having been a part of 540 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,920 Speaker 1: something like that. We don't have to litigate that, but 541 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 1: we do have to well, we do have to recognize 542 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:30,000 Speaker 1: that her testimony is damning. I mean, this is not 543 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 1: this is not Elliott Klein putting on a show in public. 544 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 1: This is not Elliott Klein posturing for his friends. This 545 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 1: is Eli at home in bed with his girlfriend talking 546 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:41,880 Speaker 1: about his fantasies of killing all the Jews. UM, and 547 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 1: her testimony was pretty harmful. Um, you wouldn't think, yeah, 548 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:51,920 Speaker 1: it's not great. You know, really you have to wonder 549 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:53,880 Speaker 1: how the jury is taking this right. These people who 550 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 1: have no concept or context for this for years yea 551 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:03,160 Speaker 1: hours of this woman sort of near tears talking about 552 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 1: how her boyfriend said that he was going to put 553 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 1: her in a breeding camp once they had the ethno state. 554 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:14,720 Speaker 1: Uh not nice, really not nice stuff. Um. And she 555 00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:16,720 Speaker 1: also tested you know, we have the messages from the 556 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:19,960 Speaker 1: discord where people are posting memes and jokes about hitting protesters, 557 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,680 Speaker 1: but Samantha testified that at private parties at Richard Spencer's 558 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 1: house in the summer. Of these private parties with the 559 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:32,480 Speaker 1: organizers of the event at Richard Spencer's apartment, people explicitly 560 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:38,840 Speaker 1: discussed the legality of hitting people with their cars. This 561 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:41,600 Speaker 1: is not random people in the discord that Richards could say, Oh, 562 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:43,120 Speaker 1: I don't know him, I never met him, I never 563 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:50,040 Speaker 1: posted in discord. This is somebody sitting on your couch Richard. Um. Yeah, 564 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 1: And you know, Samantha said that during that time period, 565 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:57,360 Speaker 1: um Kleient was building an army for Richard, and Kesler 566 00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 1: texted Spencer something similar, right that, where We'll build an army, 567 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:06,720 Speaker 1: my liege fucking dorcass ship. But when one fun surprise 568 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:10,160 Speaker 1: from Samantha was that during that time period Klein was 569 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:13,960 Speaker 1: you know, planning to provide his militia in the form 570 00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 1: of a Dennity Europa. Right, at least these street troops 571 00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 1: he was going to provide to Spencer to build the movement, 572 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:21,360 Speaker 1: but that when the time came, he always knew that 573 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 1: he would kill Richard to take control. These people are 574 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:32,040 Speaker 1: all such fucking it's a shame that what they actually 575 00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:38,200 Speaker 1: are is deniable assets for the most dangerous folks, you know, 576 00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:42,400 Speaker 1: the fucking, the fucking Bannon types, because if if all 577 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 1: of the fascists were this dumb, I wouldn't be so worried. 578 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 1: And it's hard, it's hard to walk the line between, 579 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:51,920 Speaker 1: you know, really getting a kick out of some of 580 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 1: these moments where you're genuinely funny, right, but you remember, like, 581 00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:58,280 Speaker 1: these people are very dangerous. These people are responsible for 582 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,920 Speaker 1: a death. These people. It's this emotional whiplash, right of 583 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:04,560 Speaker 1: the plaintiffs getting on and saying, yes, my life was ruined. 584 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:06,640 Speaker 1: I still have nightmares, I still have to go to 585 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 1: physical therapy, and then can't well getting up there and 586 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:13,400 Speaker 1: asking Heimbach if he's a federal agent, Yah, right, like 587 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:16,320 Speaker 1: I think. So, we've only seen one of the defendants 588 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:18,000 Speaker 1: on the stand so far, but I have a strong 589 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:20,800 Speaker 1: feeling Can't Well is going to use every opportunity that 590 00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:23,400 Speaker 1: he has his frenemies under oath to ask them if 591 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,560 Speaker 1: they snitched on him. Yeah, that's that's going to be 592 00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:30,040 Speaker 1: pretty funny. It's gonna be great. You gotta laugh. Sometimes 593 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:43,160 Speaker 1: life's too hard. That Can't Well is really using this. 594 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:45,520 Speaker 1: I think you know, he has nothing to lose, right, 595 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:48,120 Speaker 1: This is a case of damages. He has no money 596 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:50,080 Speaker 1: for them to take. He has thirty thou dollars in 597 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,320 Speaker 1: credit card debt and his car got repossessed once he 598 00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:55,040 Speaker 1: went to prison. He has nothing for them to take. 599 00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 1: The only person he knows who did have anything is 600 00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:01,200 Speaker 1: Ian Freeman, who's currently facing federal charges force of complicated 601 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:05,360 Speaker 1: bitcoin money laundering scam through a fake church. Um, so 602 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:08,400 Speaker 1: he doesn't even have any friends to help him. That's 603 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:10,360 Speaker 1: an interesting case, but I don't have time for it now. 604 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:13,640 Speaker 1: But he has he has nothing for them to take. 605 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:15,920 Speaker 1: He's already a felon. He can't have a gun anymore. 606 00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 1: I think he's just using this as an opportunity, as 607 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:21,240 Speaker 1: a platform to get his message out there and to 608 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:24,080 Speaker 1: harm the people he thinks harmed him. So every chance 609 00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:28,120 Speaker 1: he gets he's trying to force witnesses to ducks people, right. 610 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,840 Speaker 1: He asked one of the plaintiffs, Devin Willis, when another 611 00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:32,920 Speaker 1: young man who was was injured at the torch march, 612 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:36,120 Speaker 1: a plaintiff in this case, he asked him he forced 613 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:39,720 Speaker 1: him to name the names of the non parties who 614 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:43,680 Speaker 1: were also counter demonstrating at the statue. These people's names 615 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:46,480 Speaker 1: have not been on the record. They you know, judge 616 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,840 Speaker 1: made him do that, made him do that. That's up. 617 00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:54,160 Speaker 1: And you know you could if you were, I don't know, 618 00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:56,840 Speaker 1: a complete baby brained idiot, you could say, well, you 619 00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:58,680 Speaker 1: know that maybe there was a legal reason that he 620 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,479 Speaker 1: needed those names, which not, and we know there's not 621 00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:04,120 Speaker 1: because he tried to do it again today. Um, there 622 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:06,240 Speaker 1: was a non party witness, a young woman who lived 623 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:09,360 Speaker 1: in one of the dorm rooms right by the rotunda. 624 00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,600 Speaker 1: They're called the lawn rooms, the prestigious opportunity. Only super 625 00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:15,520 Speaker 1: high achievers get to live in those beautiful historic law rooms. 626 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:17,920 Speaker 1: So she lived right near where the torch mark was happening, 627 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:19,400 Speaker 1: and she heard it and she went outside and she 628 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:22,759 Speaker 1: looked at it. Um, she's not a party to the suit. 629 00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:24,800 Speaker 1: She has no knowledge of these people or what happened. 630 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,360 Speaker 1: She just saw this thing happen, and she testified to 631 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,320 Speaker 1: that um and he tried to you know, she had 632 00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:33,880 Speaker 1: made some passing remark that she had heard from another 633 00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:38,120 Speaker 1: student that maybe there would be a thing on campus, 634 00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:39,799 Speaker 1: right that they knew about the rally the next day, 635 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:42,359 Speaker 1: but like, I don't know, maybe these guys will try 636 00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:44,600 Speaker 1: and come here, just like be on your toes right, 637 00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:48,320 Speaker 1: not anything specific. She was not. She's not an activist, 638 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:50,680 Speaker 1: she's not. She didn't know anything right, and so he 639 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,040 Speaker 1: was grilled her, tell me who told you that? Tell 640 00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:54,680 Speaker 1: me who told you that? How did you know that? 641 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:58,359 Speaker 1: And he said, on the record, direct quote, I want 642 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,680 Speaker 1: to know who infiltrated our communications. So he's trying to 643 00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:04,000 Speaker 1: use this this moment where he has someone under oath 644 00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:09,520 Speaker 1: to extract information about who snitched. He wants to know 645 00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:13,680 Speaker 1: who infiltrated their secret communications, which is him admitting their 646 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:17,200 Speaker 1: secret communications that weren't turned over in discovery, which wasn't 647 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:20,320 Speaker 1: smart of him to do. But he's using this process 648 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,680 Speaker 1: to get names of people who he can harass. And 649 00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:26,759 Speaker 1: we know that's what they're doing because while he was 650 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:28,759 Speaker 1: getting these names from that other witness, you know, the 651 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:32,399 Speaker 1: names of the people at the statue. Jason Kessler, the 652 00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:35,000 Speaker 1: lead defendant, right that, the defendant whose name is on 653 00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:38,360 Speaker 1: the lawsuit, the lead organizer of the rally, is posting 654 00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,360 Speaker 1: all this time. He's posting through it, posting through it. 655 00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:42,880 Speaker 1: If you had a good lawyer, he would tell you 656 00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:47,200 Speaker 1: not to post through your own conspiracy trial. Um, so 657 00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:49,960 Speaker 1: whal Cantwell is extracting these names from this poor young man. 658 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,359 Speaker 1: Kessler's posting them. He's posting their pictures and their legal 659 00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:57,000 Speaker 1: names and describing their involvement, these people who are not 660 00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:59,240 Speaker 1: party to this lawsuit. And there's no way to interpret 661 00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:02,879 Speaker 1: that other than as as a vehicle for harassment. Yeah, 662 00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:05,760 Speaker 1: there's I think there will be. There will be collateral 663 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:07,959 Speaker 1: damage of this lawsuit, but I hope that it does 664 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:13,080 Speaker 1: um have the intended deterrent effect. Right, Um, sorry, I've 665 00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:16,360 Speaker 1: been talking at length for a while, but just insummation, insummation. 666 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:21,160 Speaker 1: I think inside the courtroom, this is a case about damages. Right. 667 00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:23,839 Speaker 1: The judge is very clear that like, stop talking about 668 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:26,560 Speaker 1: broader societal impact. You can't tell the jury about that. 669 00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:29,040 Speaker 1: That's not relevant to this case. This, legally speaking, is 670 00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:32,239 Speaker 1: a case about did this thing happen. Were these people 671 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:34,719 Speaker 1: hurt by it? What is the dollar amount of their pain? 672 00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:38,920 Speaker 1: Legally speaking? That's it. But outside the courtroom, this is 673 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:41,799 Speaker 1: about deterrence, right, This is about setting a precedent that 674 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:45,280 Speaker 1: if you do this, if you plan a rally knowing 675 00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:47,440 Speaker 1: that the people who come to your rally will hurt 676 00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:50,480 Speaker 1: people because you told them that's the goal. Right. Even 677 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:52,640 Speaker 1: if you're not the one who swings the stick, even 678 00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:55,040 Speaker 1: if you're not the one pressing the accelerator, you are 679 00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:58,000 Speaker 1: responsible and you can be held accountable. Not as an 680 00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:02,359 Speaker 1: important message, Yeah, we will, like your life will be 681 00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,440 Speaker 1: ruined if you participate in this ship that even if 682 00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:06,960 Speaker 1: you don't have anything for us to take, we will 683 00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:09,000 Speaker 1: put a garnishment on you that will follow you to 684 00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:13,879 Speaker 1: the fucking grave. Yep. And I think, yeah, that's that's 685 00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:17,400 Speaker 1: I would agree what I think is important here. Um, Molly, 686 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:19,960 Speaker 1: I think that's that's everything. For now. We're still how 687 00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:21,759 Speaker 1: much how much longer do we have to go through this? 688 00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:26,239 Speaker 1: The court watch him a jig. Well, it's scheduled for 689 00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:31,960 Speaker 1: four weeks, it's been one and a half. And there 690 00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:34,839 Speaker 1: was there was some some anxiety and handwringing about how 691 00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:39,920 Speaker 1: maybe four weeks won't cut it. Yeah, Jesus, So I'm 692 00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:44,879 Speaker 1: regretting my decision to actively live tweets. So like I'm 693 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:47,759 Speaker 1: transcribing in real time for eight hours a day. It 694 00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:51,279 Speaker 1: happens your fingers are using a laptop. Are you doing 695 00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:53,360 Speaker 1: it on a phone. I'm doing it on a laptop, 696 00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:55,719 Speaker 1: thank God. So because of COVID, um, no one can 697 00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:57,880 Speaker 1: go into the courthouse because there's so many parties in 698 00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:00,440 Speaker 1: this case, and there's the plague, and one can go 699 00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:03,239 Speaker 1: into the courthouse except for there's there's a press room 700 00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:06,160 Speaker 1: where fifteen people who got preapproved by a federal court 701 00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:09,040 Speaker 1: can go and sit and look at a monitor. Um, 702 00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:11,640 Speaker 1: but I'm sitting at home. I'm comfy at home, So 703 00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:15,360 Speaker 1: I'm okank God, yeah, that would be And I was. 704 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:17,080 Speaker 1: I was disappointed. You know, I kind of wanted to 705 00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:19,480 Speaker 1: see I love to see you love the courtroom ambiance. 706 00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:23,680 Speaker 1: But I'll be honest work, I'm way less worried about 707 00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:27,520 Speaker 1: getting stabbed here at home. That is true. That is true. 708 00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:31,319 Speaker 1: People are less likely to get stabbed at home or 709 00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:34,799 Speaker 1: more likely one of the two. Um, I don't know. 710 00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:37,640 Speaker 1: Tell us in the comments where you think people are 711 00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:42,839 Speaker 1: most likely to get stabbed. Uh and um, Molly, thank 712 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:44,759 Speaker 1: you so much. Thank you both for what you're doing 713 00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:47,279 Speaker 1: and for coming on the show. Is there anywhere the 714 00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:52,120 Speaker 1: listeners can find slash support you? Would you like people 715 00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:56,560 Speaker 1: to mail you knives? What? Oh? Mail me knives? Yeah, 716 00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:58,680 Speaker 1: but not as a threat, like as a fun thing, 717 00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:03,920 Speaker 1: fun knives for fun. I did get a large machete 718 00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:05,520 Speaker 1: in the mail the other day, and before I saw 719 00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:09,439 Speaker 1: the little gift note, I was confused. Oh good, Okay, 720 00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:13,320 Speaker 1: I'm glad you're getting a Yeah. Yeah, my my friendship 721 00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:16,040 Speaker 1: is a sheep farmer in North Carolina sent me a 722 00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:21,640 Speaker 1: large blade. Uh no, but so if you're interested in 723 00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:26,719 Speaker 1: reading moment by moment live transcription of people screaming Holocaust 724 00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:30,000 Speaker 1: denial at a federal judge, Um, you can check me 725 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:33,200 Speaker 1: out on Twitter. That's at Socialist dog Mom. That's what 726 00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:35,720 Speaker 1: happens when you make a little joke with your friends, 727 00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:38,920 Speaker 1: when you have five followers, and and then you end 728 00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:44,359 Speaker 1: up using it professionally and national news repeatedly. I don't. 729 00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:46,520 Speaker 1: Then people are posting your mug shot making fun of 730 00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:53,480 Speaker 1: your bullshit mug shot. You look great, but bullshit. Nobody 731 00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:55,279 Speaker 1: looks good after they get left in a hot van 732 00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:59,919 Speaker 1: like a dog. Yeah, that's true. Well, Molly, that's gonna 733 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:06,400 Speaker 1: be the end of the episode. So why don't we, 734 00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:10,520 Speaker 1: Why don't we sing a song and and and roll out? 735 00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:15,000 Speaker 1: Hopefully not the song that Heimbuch included in his Christmas 736 00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:18,000 Speaker 1: letter to James Fields in prison. Oh god, that must 737 00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:22,960 Speaker 1: have been really special. Jeez, I'll have to look that up. 738 00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:26,600 Speaker 1: I did come across in my um my browsing through 739 00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:30,400 Speaker 1: Fascist Telegram the other week an entire album, dozens of 740 00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:33,560 Speaker 1: songs that we're all Nazi covers of Blink one eight 741 00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:39,560 Speaker 1: two's entire discography, everything, everything, And they called it, of course, 742 00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:45,919 Speaker 1: they called it Blink like obviously of course, I don't 743 00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:48,319 Speaker 1: I don't even know, like, I don't even know like 744 00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:51,879 Speaker 1: how to talk about that. It was just the thing 745 00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:54,919 Speaker 1: that I found. Do you know hampt Install, the guy 746 00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:57,880 Speaker 1: who studies malicious Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he's got a 747 00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:02,359 Speaker 1: particular fascination with white power app Oh god, yeah, it's 748 00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:04,880 Speaker 1: never any good, although there was a there is a 749 00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:07,640 Speaker 1: fun in one of the h Bomber Guy videos. He 750 00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:10,640 Speaker 1: found finds this flat earth Nazi who has a wrap. 751 00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:18,600 Speaker 1: That's amazing. Alright, partial, I'm partial to can't well as distracts. Yeah, God, 752 00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:24,319 Speaker 1: Chris Camp, Well, well, thank you, Molly, and uh off 753 00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:28,640 Speaker 1: we go into the wild blue yonder. I'm gonna go 754 00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:32,040 Speaker 1: smoke some legal weed and fall asleep, face down, hopefully 755 00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:34,600 Speaker 1: not thinking about this trial. I Am not going to 756 00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:38,960 Speaker 1: smoke some legal weed because that's federally a crime. Molly, 757 00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:41,800 Speaker 1: have a good day, Molly. Thank you all for listening. 758 00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:48,000 Speaker 1: It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 759 00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:50,920 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 760 00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:53,040 Speaker 1: cool zone media dot com, or check us out on 761 00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:55,640 Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 762 00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:58,440 Speaker 1: listen to podcasts. You can find sources for It Could 763 00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:01,479 Speaker 1: Happen Here, updated monthly at cool Zone Meda dot com 764 00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:03,440 Speaker 1: slash sources. Thanks for listening.