WEBVTT - How’d We Get Here? (w/ Robert J. Ulrich) 0:00:01.840 --> 0:00:05.200 And That's what you really missed with Jenna and Kevin 0:00:05.559 --> 0:00:11.119 and I Heart Radio podcast. Welcome back. We're here for 0:00:11.160 --> 0:00:13.640 another episode of and That's what you really missed. And 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:18.480 we have a wonderful, awesome, really cool guest today and 0:00:18.600 --> 0:00:22.840 Amy Winner, if you will. Mr Robert Ulrich, the Glee 0:00:22.920 --> 0:00:27.400 casting director, himself extraordinaire. He cast Glee, he cast the 0:00:27.480 --> 0:00:29.920 Glee Project, He was on the Glee Project, and then 0:00:29.920 --> 0:00:33.760 he cast a million shows after that, worked very closely 0:00:33.760 --> 0:00:37.640 with Ryan Murphy on many other shows. And we learned 0:00:37.720 --> 0:00:41.400 so much and he was he gave away a lot 0:00:41.440 --> 0:00:46.040 of secrets. Yeah, and I feel like talking to him 0:00:46.040 --> 0:00:48.880 provided a lot of flashbacks for us for our auditions 0:00:48.960 --> 0:00:52.919 and whatnot. Yeah, it takes me back to that place. True, Yeah, totally. 0:00:53.000 --> 0:00:56.920 And it's I also feel like the casting director's perspective 0:00:56.960 --> 0:00:59.360 is one that's not necessarily hurt as much. You hear 0:00:59.400 --> 0:01:02.480 all of our versions of the audition stories over and 0:01:02.520 --> 0:01:05.880 over and over. Um, it's very enlightening to hear um 0:01:06.400 --> 0:01:08.720 his perspective of the entire experience. I was also going 0:01:08.720 --> 0:01:11.399 to say during the interview, Um, I'm really grateful that 0:01:11.480 --> 0:01:15.240 he has such fond memories of the show as well. 0:01:15.319 --> 0:01:19.480 It just goes to show again what we're doing on 0:01:19.520 --> 0:01:24.440 this podcast is like all the joy that was surrounded 0:01:24.480 --> 0:01:27.680 and all the good people that we were surrounded by, 0:01:27.760 --> 0:01:30.280 and that we're like lifting us up and supporting us 0:01:30.319 --> 0:01:33.640 through it all. You know, it's like again and just 0:01:33.720 --> 0:01:37.800 another testimonial to like the wonderful things that really did 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:40.480 for people. So yeah, it was all very It all 0:01:40.520 --> 0:01:44.120 felt very joyous and very celebratory, and we got to 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:45.840 spend a lot of time with him because he was 0:01:45.880 --> 0:01:48.640 always included. He seems really grateful. He's just a really 0:01:48.640 --> 0:01:51.720 good guy in um, Hollywood is lucky to have casting 0:01:51.720 --> 0:01:55.960 directors like him. So let's get to it. Yeah, enjoy 0:01:56.000 --> 0:02:00.000 our conversation with the gleecasting director Robert or work Um. 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:04.120 Robert or the one and only, the god of us, 0:02:04.240 --> 0:02:09.000 basically the reason for our existence. Casting director producer, uh, 0:02:09.160 --> 0:02:13.320 the one we all at all too Hello, has cast, 0:02:13.520 --> 0:02:16.880 like you know, over a billion shows. Just I don't 0:02:16.880 --> 0:02:19.040 know how you have time to do anything that I have. 0:02:19.720 --> 0:02:24.840 I don't welcome. Luckily, I'm still working. That's the good 0:02:24.960 --> 0:02:28.320 that's the good news. Yeah, so many shows after Glee 0:02:28.720 --> 0:02:33.919 was like your big show for sure, Glue was Yes. 0:02:34.040 --> 0:02:38.760 I mean I've done I've done Battlestar Galactica, which had 0:02:38.800 --> 0:02:43.640 its own cult following totally and with my business arnder Eric, 0:02:43.720 --> 0:02:48.240 and then I had done um oh, when I did 0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:51.080 a show called Dark Angel and it was not long 0:02:51.120 --> 0:02:54.000 after Titanic, and I remember hearing it was in development. 0:02:54.040 --> 0:02:56.040 I loved Titanic. I'm like, oh, I'll never get that. 0:02:56.080 --> 0:02:57.519 And then I got a call and I interviewed and 0:02:57.560 --> 0:03:01.399 I got it. So, um, I've done those things. Those 0:03:01.400 --> 0:03:03.960 were kind of the big things, but nothing likely. I 0:03:03.960 --> 0:03:07.880 mean Glee. You know, Glee was a global phenomenon really, 0:03:07.919 --> 0:03:13.000 you know, and it helped me tremendously and um, yeah, 0:03:13.280 --> 0:03:15.680 so that Glee was a great thing. Glee's the highlight 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:18.639 of my life for sure. Have you worked with Ryan before? 0:03:19.000 --> 0:03:21.400 Oh yeah, we'd worked with Brian from the beginning, but 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:25.720 I hadn't much. Um, we did Popular and we did Niptuck. 0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:28.760 We'd already been up proNT in me for Niptuck. When 0:03:28.919 --> 0:03:33.720 when you know, when Glee came around, Um, and my 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:36.600 business partner Ryan offered it too, because I've been in 0:03:37.640 --> 0:03:42.680 one casting session for Niptuck and uh, and it's a 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:45.280 test network, test situation when Eric was out of town 0:03:45.360 --> 0:03:48.760 for for Popular but I really didn't know Ryan at Also. 0:03:48.840 --> 0:03:52.040 Ryan offered it to Eric, and Eric came to me 0:03:52.960 --> 0:03:54.760 a few days later and he said, Robert, would you 0:03:54.800 --> 0:03:57.280 be interested to know you're into musicals and stuff. I'm like, yes, 0:03:59.280 --> 0:04:03.760 and so I So Eric was on at the very 0:04:03.800 --> 0:04:07.600 beginning for like two weeks and then, uh, it just 0:04:07.720 --> 0:04:10.240 wasn't his thing, you know, But it took me a 0:04:10.240 --> 0:04:13.720 while to earn to earn Ryan's trust for sure. I know, 0:04:13.800 --> 0:04:16.680 it was like it was crazy because I just think 0:04:16.680 --> 0:04:18.960 he thought, you know, I don't know what he thought, 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:20.839 but but anyway, I took it took a while. But 0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:25.880 during the by the end of the whole pilot casting situation, 0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:30.160 than I had definitely gotten distressed. And yeah, I think, so, yeah, 0:04:30.480 --> 0:04:33.680 you sort of nailed it. You know, what was your 0:04:33.720 --> 0:04:37.279 initial reaction before you had even taken on the casting, like, 0:04:37.600 --> 0:04:40.440 you know, but when I just read the yeah, yeah, 0:04:40.440 --> 0:04:41.960 I mean I thought it was great, and I remember 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:45.080 thinking I can't imagine they'll be able to do this, 0:04:45.200 --> 0:04:47.800 and then the fact that you guys did it week 0:04:47.839 --> 0:04:49.720 after week is and it just got more and more 0:04:49.760 --> 0:04:51.599 and more elaborate. You know. That was my first thing was, 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:54.040 I don't know how this will ever come off, you know, 0:04:54.920 --> 0:04:58.800 And that was probably just that I thought it was 0:04:58.839 --> 0:05:01.880 really good. The first time I saw it, Ryan had 0:05:02.040 --> 0:05:04.600 Eric and I over to We watched it like on 0:05:04.640 --> 0:05:07.080 a computer. It was the editing Bay or whatever, and 0:05:07.200 --> 0:05:09.760 that was when I was just blown away and right, 0:05:09.880 --> 0:05:12.360 and I knew that I knew it was special. But 0:05:13.160 --> 0:05:15.720 you know, who knew who knew? You know? And then 0:05:15.720 --> 0:05:19.440 I remember they had a party for the episode. Which 0:05:19.480 --> 0:05:23.320 episode was it? Where it was? She? It was the 0:05:23.440 --> 0:05:28.440 song it was? It might have been was the second episode? Yes? Yes? 0:05:28.560 --> 0:05:32.240 Was that the second episode? Yes? And there was a 0:05:32.320 --> 0:05:38.400 screening party somewhere I remember, and with like you know, 0:05:38.480 --> 0:05:41.760 popcorn and all kinds. Yeah, it was like high school 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:46.039 was out of high school yet Monica high school. Yeah. 0:05:46.560 --> 0:05:48.200 And then I just knew that it was you know, 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:52.120 it was just so amazing, and yeah, I was obsessed. 0:05:52.400 --> 0:05:56.240 I used to get the dailies when they were on DVD. 0:05:56.360 --> 0:06:00.920 I still have all these Wow you were very special dailies. 0:06:01.000 --> 0:06:03.120 We all wanted the dailies, but we never got that 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:05.200 it was. Let me say, it was hard to get him. 0:06:05.880 --> 0:06:07.400 I don't know if I don't know if anybody even knew. 0:06:07.400 --> 0:06:09.960 I'm sure I always kind of to angle my way 0:06:10.000 --> 0:06:11.920 in and get those things. I don't think. I don't 0:06:11.920 --> 0:06:14.800 know if anybody knew I was watching them. I was 0:06:14.920 --> 0:06:17.560 so excited because I, you know, be able to see 0:06:17.600 --> 0:06:20.000 this stuff that was happening even before the show was 0:06:20.400 --> 0:06:24.960 cut right right, and I was so into it. Yeah, 0:06:25.120 --> 0:06:27.600 what is it like on your end? You know, because 0:06:27.600 --> 0:06:30.159 we're only privy to very much our side of when 0:06:30.160 --> 0:06:32.520 you go audition for something, you go into room and 0:06:32.560 --> 0:06:36.200 you have all those thoughts into your head on your 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:38.919 side of things like during the initial casting of this 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:43.599 casting the pilot, especially what because this was such a 0:06:43.680 --> 0:06:46.960 unique and different show and like you said, no one 0:06:47.000 --> 0:06:50.240 thought it would be able to be pulled off. What 0:06:50.320 --> 0:06:52.800 were your I don't know what were you looking for? 0:06:52.839 --> 0:06:56.240 I guess in terms of like I bombed my initial 0:06:57.480 --> 0:07:01.000 and somehow, but somehow you were like, yeah, the maniot, 0:07:01.640 --> 0:07:04.000 you can't say that anymore now. Yeah, but see from 0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:07.520 my perspective, I was like, yeah, but when you're going 0:07:07.560 --> 0:07:12.120 in and you're looking for all of these intentionally different, 0:07:12.360 --> 0:07:16.720 you know, outcast type characters, are you seeing people you're 0:07:16.760 --> 0:07:20.240 not normally seeing? Like? What what was that like for you, well, 0:07:20.360 --> 0:07:27.760 Ryan was You know, Ryan is incredible in in obviously 0:07:27.760 --> 0:07:29.520 a million ways, but one of the ways is that 0:07:29.560 --> 0:07:32.720 he knows exactly what he wants and so he's very 0:07:32.720 --> 0:07:34.520 specific and you know what you're looking for. But at 0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:39.320 the same time, he's completely open too something new, you know, 0:07:39.680 --> 0:07:41.040 like the Chris cole for of it all. You know 0:07:41.160 --> 0:07:47.640 that wast so um So. What I did, uh know though, 0:07:47.800 --> 0:07:50.440 was that he wanted real kids. I mean, he said, 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:53.880 I want this to I want everybody to seem really real, 0:07:54.040 --> 0:07:57.720 like you know, real high school students. So that was 0:07:57.800 --> 0:08:02.960 kind of my um my thought when I went into 0:08:03.000 --> 0:08:04.840 the casting, and that, you know, he didn't want it 0:08:04.880 --> 0:08:09.600 to come off at all fake, and obviously everybody had 0:08:09.640 --> 0:08:12.800 the same um So I had I had done a 0:08:14.920 --> 0:08:17.160 because at that point, you know, now there's so many musicals. 0:08:17.200 --> 0:08:19.400 There wasn't you know, there wasn't there weren't TV musical 0:08:19.480 --> 0:08:24.080 So I had figured out a system that worked and 0:08:24.120 --> 0:08:27.920 continued to work the whole time on a pilot that 0:08:27.960 --> 0:08:30.920 I was involved with a couple of years before, called Rhapsody, 0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:33.520 which was an NBC pilot. It was amazing. It was 0:08:34.720 --> 0:08:37.200 every season was going to be a different artist and 0:08:37.240 --> 0:08:40.120 the first season was Elton John and so it was 0:08:40.160 --> 0:08:43.560 all his library music and it was very kind of dark, 0:08:43.640 --> 0:08:46.719 like a Romeo and Juliet kind of sexy dark thing 0:08:46.800 --> 0:08:49.080 that took place a little bit in the future, in 0:08:49.120 --> 0:08:53.840 the in the aerospace. It was very interesting, very good. Anyway, 0:08:53.880 --> 0:08:56.520 we got all the way to the going to the 0:08:56.559 --> 0:08:59.120 network test and then they pulled the plug. I think 0:08:59.120 --> 0:09:02.120 it was just, you know, so hard for anybody to 0:09:02.160 --> 0:09:07.120 wrap their head around Ryant. But it was really good. 0:09:07.120 --> 0:09:12.480 But during that I had kind of had this system 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:14.120 where I had people come and sing a couple of 0:09:14.160 --> 0:09:16.000 songs to me in the office like you did, Kevin, 0:09:16.040 --> 0:09:17.920 just right across the desk from me, if I remember, 0:09:19.200 --> 0:09:24.000 and um and then uh. And then we would go 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:27.960 to the producers and I'd have a pianist because I 0:09:28.040 --> 0:09:32.800 always felt from my musical theater background that that good 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:36.199 singers are better with the pianist, and and people that 0:09:36.280 --> 0:09:39.560 aren't is good or helped tremendously by by a companiment, 0:09:39.640 --> 0:09:42.600 you know. But that was around American audo, where everything 0:09:42.679 --> 0:09:47.160 was just people just singing acapella. But anyway, so I 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:53.240 had a piano player and he I for whatever reason, 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:55.640 I didn't think it was working, and so I investigated 0:09:55.920 --> 0:10:01.160 somehow I got Brad Ellis and so when this came around, 0:10:01.480 --> 0:10:03.560 I thought of Brad, you know, I did exactly the 0:10:03.600 --> 0:10:05.400 same thing, and we would I get the collection of 0:10:05.440 --> 0:10:09.079 the people and we go over to to the studio 0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:14.800 on and Ryan and Ian and everybody was there and um, 0:10:14.840 --> 0:10:16.960 and that's how we did it. So it all it 0:10:17.080 --> 0:10:19.520 seemed to just work out great. You know, that's the 0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:21.120 way that it worked. And we did that for the 0:10:21.160 --> 0:10:23.600 whole show, you know. I mean there's been along people 0:10:23.640 --> 0:10:26.160 saying acapella for the guest spots because obviously they did 0:10:26.160 --> 0:10:29.720 in our little teeny space in my office. It's crazy. 0:10:29.760 --> 0:10:33.080 We had people like flipping and doing everything in that 0:10:33.120 --> 0:10:35.440 little room. Now that they think about it, so bizarre. 0:10:36.360 --> 0:10:41.120 We also we would because we cast the initial warplers, 0:10:41.240 --> 0:10:46.560 you know, and so we we um Alanna who worked 0:10:46.559 --> 0:10:48.080 with me. I don't know if you guys know Alana, 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:51.920 she and Rory who worked with me, and Rory ended 0:10:51.960 --> 0:10:57.880 up on Glee as bad Girl singer. Um. We they 0:10:57.920 --> 0:11:02.280 would figure out this little dance routine and um, and 0:11:02.400 --> 0:11:04.840 they would teach it and we I have videos still 0:11:04.960 --> 0:11:07.720 where people would be lined up and down the hallway 0:11:07.840 --> 0:11:11.360 they'd be in. It was crazy doing that silly little 0:11:11.440 --> 0:11:13.680 routine and that's what we'd send to Ryan, and that's 0:11:13.679 --> 0:11:16.560 how people got cast, you know. So somebody did have 0:11:16.640 --> 0:11:20.160 to dance for their audition after all they did. You know. 0:11:20.160 --> 0:11:22.160 It's funny because I always hear that they danced for 0:11:22.200 --> 0:11:25.320 the initials initial auditions and nobody, but none of us 0:11:25.320 --> 0:11:28.360 would have been cast. So went on. Everybody danced for 0:11:28.400 --> 0:11:32.560 all the guest spots. Once they realized they made during 0:11:32.600 --> 0:11:34.800 the pilot, they made a real mistake not having any 0:11:34.840 --> 0:11:38.280 of us dance. I think I just started doing it. 0:11:38.320 --> 0:11:42.240 I don't even know. Ryan was so great about letting me. 0:11:42.320 --> 0:11:45.880 I mean, we only went to studio I think after 0:11:45.960 --> 0:11:47.959 you guys one time, I believe, and that was when 0:11:48.000 --> 0:11:51.440 Cord was cast, because even Darren was just cast off 0:11:51.440 --> 0:11:55.280 of a tape, you know, and nobody and Diana was 0:11:55.360 --> 0:11:58.079 cast like the night before he started shooting. No one 0:11:58.200 --> 0:12:02.400 saw her until she showed. I remember that. What a 0:12:02.440 --> 0:12:07.040 wild and cookie casting experience for everybody. I know, it 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:10.040 was ugly. It was the most wild, you know, and 0:12:10.080 --> 0:12:12.000 a lot of times the stuff that was being asked 0:12:12.000 --> 0:12:15.560 because wasn't there like a circus episode or something where 0:12:15.559 --> 0:12:20.120 people had somebody had some kind of and the way 0:12:20.160 --> 0:12:23.240 people doing all these like circus skills in the office. Yeah, 0:12:23.520 --> 0:12:25.920 there were there were times when people needed that. Yeah. Yeah, 0:12:25.960 --> 0:12:28.720 there was crazy and then there was Yeah, there was 0:12:28.760 --> 0:12:32.000 all kinds of bizarre stuff that you on no other 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:35.080 show before since I've ever been involved with you know, 0:12:35.559 --> 0:12:37.800 now you're just you're prepped and ready to go for 0:12:37.840 --> 0:12:43.360 anything that come. I've done it since was Zoe for 0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:47.880 another musical stuff. But yeah, it's crazy, Kevin. Your audition 0:12:48.000 --> 0:12:49.679 was great and I always always say you'd tell that 0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:52.079 and you saying let it be not. I remember all 0:12:52.120 --> 0:12:56.640 this stuff like it was yesterday because it was so 0:12:56.760 --> 0:13:00.240 fun for me. Everything is so vivid to me still. 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:05.199 You know. I remember when Naya auditioned. We were in 0:13:05.240 --> 0:13:07.160 a rush and we had because I think that role 0:13:07.200 --> 0:13:12.280 got written in later, and and she literally we stood 0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:14.640 and I just said saying something, saying something because their 0:13:14.720 --> 0:13:17.000 look was so great, and she's saying just kind of 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:19.840 standing across the before she went over to sing for everybody. 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:24.480 It was just crazy. Wow. Yeah, but you knew you 0:13:24.520 --> 0:13:27.520 still saw something in all of us, right, Oh yeah, no, no, 0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:31.600 for sure. I mean for sure. And even though Jenna 0:13:31.679 --> 0:13:33.680 came from New York, she's still went to the whole 0:13:33.720 --> 0:13:37.400 process here and we're up against people here, and that's 0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:41.400 always I'm so glad that that, um it doesn't exist anymore, 0:13:41.440 --> 0:13:43.480 and I don't think that it will ever come back. 0:13:43.600 --> 0:13:47.000 I hope where people going to the network room and 0:13:47.000 --> 0:13:50.880 the room at least there it was the same room, right, 0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:54.600 Mostly you have to go to a different location and right, yeah, 0:13:54.679 --> 0:13:59.240 it's changed so much now you'll never see suits at home. 0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:02.240 You know. It was so weird, you sitting in a 0:14:02.320 --> 0:14:05.480 room with your competitors signing your life away for five years. 0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:09.079 I mean, it was just a terrible system. But at 0:14:09.160 --> 0:14:14.000 least with Glee it was there was a piano in 0:14:14.040 --> 0:14:15.680 the room, so it kind of hit it like a party, 0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:18.679 and it was different than than most network tests. What 0:14:18.800 --> 0:14:22.360 you're just hideous, you know, and having Brad like Brad 0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:24.600 was the pianist through all of it. I was lucky 0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:26.360 enough to be in l A the whole time, so 0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:29.480 I yeah, I got him for three out of the 0:14:29.480 --> 0:14:33.240 four auditions. Yeah, all except for the one with me. Yeah, exactly. 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:37.040 And and also you know, there's something really I think 0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:41.200 anybody that meets you, You're like incredibly warm and encouraging 0:14:41.240 --> 0:14:44.600 to people, and so you and Ryan during those studio 0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:47.400 and network tests also made a point to make everybody 0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:50.920 feel comfortable because it is a really if you haven't 0:14:50.960 --> 0:14:54.360 been through it, such a pressure cooker. Yeah, it's an awful, 0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:59.280 awful experience. It was just so archaic, and it happened 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:02.360 for so many years. Everybody just thought that it's what 0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:05.600 the way it should be. And and every time I 0:15:05.640 --> 0:15:08.320 think about it, just so crazy too, because you're you're 0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:14.400 asked to perform for this room full of people, and 0:15:14.400 --> 0:15:16.000 and yet when you're on camera it's going to be 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:18.960 like this exactly. Well, it became kind of performative. I 0:15:18.960 --> 0:15:22.320 mean it was it's a whole different thing. It turned 0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:24.400 into you need to know how to audition, but that's 0:15:24.440 --> 0:15:28.400 necessarily the same skill as acting on a team show 0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:30.280 or in a film, you know, And there are people 0:15:30.280 --> 0:15:33.440 that were great auditioners and people that were terrible auditioners. 0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:36.080 You know. I had nothing to do with actually the 0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:39.240 talent of getting the you know, the job and doing 0:15:39.240 --> 0:15:42.080 it on the show. But that's right. I think we 0:15:42.120 --> 0:15:44.840 have a lot of listeners probably that are pursuing this 0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:48.200 as a career, young young adults, and I know they 0:15:48.240 --> 0:15:50.600 hear it over and over again, but I'm sure hearing 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:54.800 it from you, like you want them to be the 0:15:55.000 --> 0:15:59.040 person you do. I mean it only, I mean even 0:15:59.080 --> 0:16:01.760 just from a very self fish standpoint. It just makes 0:16:01.800 --> 0:16:06.280 my job easier if people are good and right, you know, 0:16:06.280 --> 0:16:09.520 and a lot of it's been right too, but uh, 0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:13.400 but yes, and it just yeah, I always wanted everybody 0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:16.920 to be their best, you know, always, you know, from 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:20.120 the and and luckily, I mean maybe because I was 0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:23.880 an actor and married too to an actress. Actor now 0:16:23.880 --> 0:16:28.640 it's an actor. Uh, you know, I had christ have 0:16:28.920 --> 0:16:34.120 incredible empathy for for the art because it's terrible and 0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:36.800 trying to get a job is just the hardest thing 0:16:36.800 --> 0:16:38.280 in the world. We ask you to come in and 0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:41.560 be vulnerable, and and half the time you're in the past, 0:16:41.600 --> 0:16:43.480 you were in the waiting room for three hours and 0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:46.880 you have to come in and you know, it's just 0:16:47.280 --> 0:16:50.760 it's a crazy system. But unfortunately it's the only system 0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:53.480 that there is. You know, that's right, that's right. How 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:56.440 is it now nowadays for you? Because the system is 0:16:56.440 --> 0:16:59.400 so different, so I mean before and people who aren't 0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:03.360 in this business Um. Now, as actors, we all sort 0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:06.640 of tape ourselves at home and send in tapes. How 0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:11.760 I mean, the thing is, I personally prefer that because 0:17:11.800 --> 0:17:13.959 I'm a ball of nerves and I hate auditioning. However, 0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:17.480 the times that I've done the best and these things 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:19.719 are like when I was with you, where you are 0:17:19.760 --> 0:17:22.480 able to have the personal connection and maybe you can 0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:25.760 see through you know that the nerves and all that 0:17:25.960 --> 0:17:29.120 to something that even maybe I don't necessarily recognize it myself. 0:17:29.720 --> 0:17:33.080 How has that that shift been for you in terms 0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:36.320 of your work? Well, initially, I was very opposed to 0:17:36.359 --> 0:17:40.680 it because I love people, and I love my favorite 0:17:40.720 --> 0:17:43.520 part of my job really was meeting the people, meeting 0:17:43.560 --> 0:17:47.280 you know, and um, and so I mean I was 0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:51.320 never I've never been somebody who's enjoyed the negotiating side 0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:53.080 of or any of that. It's just not my favorite part. 0:17:53.119 --> 0:17:59.760 But um, but I was super opposed to it. And uh, 0:17:59.760 --> 0:18:02.359 and I thought you could never do chemistry readings unless 0:18:02.400 --> 0:18:05.760 you were in the room and all that. I think 0:18:05.800 --> 0:18:08.919 that there's you know, and I loved going to my 0:18:09.000 --> 0:18:11.080 office and everything in my office. We gave up our office. 0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:16.160 We held on to it for a year and then yeah, 0:18:16.240 --> 0:18:19.399 it's really sad. That was a lifetime of goodness. I 0:18:19.440 --> 0:18:21.160 think about it every time I go past I didn't 0:18:21.160 --> 0:18:25.920 know then the four and twenty next stor every day 0:18:25.960 --> 0:18:29.680 that's gone. I mean, but anyway, so I am. I 0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:34.120 was very sad about it. But I think that overall 0:18:34.200 --> 0:18:37.080 it is better. I mean, the only thing you miss is, 0:18:37.320 --> 0:18:40.199 which is a big thing, is the personal connection and 0:18:40.200 --> 0:18:42.440 the getting to know the casting director and the producers. 0:18:42.520 --> 0:18:46.400 That and you also miss when you're auditioning. It's now 0:18:46.720 --> 0:18:53.320 a a job about making a choice that happens to 0:18:53.359 --> 0:18:56.360 be the right choice because you don't have the cast 0:18:56.440 --> 0:18:58.520 director that or anybody saying, oh no, that's not what 0:18:58.560 --> 0:19:00.480 they want to do it this way. You just have 0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:03.480 to make a choice and hope that you know. So 0:19:03.600 --> 0:19:06.520 that's the big negative. But I think that the positive 0:19:06.920 --> 0:19:10.280 is so much because for anybody that's the least bit 0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:13.320 nervous that gets wiped out. Also, you can do it 0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:17.080 a hundred times until you're happy with it. It's also 0:19:17.320 --> 0:19:20.879 a business about, like I said, being being close up 0:19:20.880 --> 0:19:23.159 and everybody's you know. So all that I think is 0:19:23.920 --> 0:19:28.720 so I think overall it's better. Yeah, And and I 0:19:28.720 --> 0:19:30.520 don't know when it will ever get back to the 0:19:30.520 --> 0:19:32.679 other way, because I don't even know a casting I mean, 0:19:32.680 --> 0:19:35.880 I'm sure there are many casts have kept their own offices, 0:19:35.960 --> 0:19:37.520 but I don't I know so many that have given 0:19:37.600 --> 0:19:40.119 up their offices, you know. Yeah, why why waste the 0:19:40.119 --> 0:19:42.359 money when you're not using it? It's sitting there vacant, 0:19:42.520 --> 0:19:46.840 you know. Yeah, it's interesting. It's it's interesting because, like 0:19:46.920 --> 0:19:51.119 you said, for me, taping gets rid of the nerves 0:19:51.200 --> 0:19:53.560 for me. But I also take direction really well in 0:19:53.600 --> 0:19:55.800 the room, and I know that casting directors noticed that. 0:19:55.960 --> 0:19:58.960 So for me, it's like making the shifts is where 0:19:58.960 --> 0:20:01.679 I really thrive. And not to be able to not 0:20:01.720 --> 0:20:04.159 be able to do that and have any direction it 0:20:04.600 --> 0:20:07.960 really does you know, it isn't beneficial in many ways. 0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:21.040 Can we talk about the Glee project? UM, tell us 0:20:21.080 --> 0:20:25.160 about how Ryan came to you with the project and 0:20:25.200 --> 0:20:28.040 what he said to you, and what that experience was 0:20:28.080 --> 0:20:30.200 like for you because we only we were so busy 0:20:30.280 --> 0:20:33.200 working on the actual show, like we only got little 0:20:33.200 --> 0:20:38.480 tastes of it. Yeah, the the the Glee project, along 0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:41.919 with Glee was the highlight of my professional life for sure. 0:20:42.000 --> 0:20:47.680 I mean it was amazing, um ther Ryan told me 0:20:47.800 --> 0:20:49.720 we were, there was a party at the chateau for 0:20:49.880 --> 0:20:56.040 some That's the other thing is as a casting director, 0:20:56.760 --> 0:21:01.080 you never rarely meet the cast. And I had never 0:21:01.200 --> 0:21:05.480 been included in anything or had so many parties. I mean, 0:21:05.520 --> 0:21:12.120 so I was we were always all together and you Yeah. 0:21:12.640 --> 0:21:14.439 So I was there and Ryan came up to me 0:21:14.480 --> 0:21:17.040 and he said, I have something Monday. I'm gonna tell 0:21:17.080 --> 0:21:19.240 you that's gonna make you You're gonna be very excited. 0:21:20.080 --> 0:21:22.680 I'm like, can you tell me now? Dangle the carrot? Right, 0:21:25.119 --> 0:21:27.920 So I never heard anything. I didn't hear anything Monday. 0:21:27.920 --> 0:21:30.520 I didn't anything Tuesday, didn't he And a couple of 0:21:30.560 --> 0:21:35.119 weeks later, Dante called me and said that there was 0:21:35.119 --> 0:21:39.439 going to be this reality show and UM, could I 0:21:39.480 --> 0:21:43.240 start looking for people? You know? So they so initially 0:21:43.840 --> 0:21:48.840 it was on my Space and that's right, yeah, on 0:21:48.880 --> 0:21:54.200 my space and they and they they provided initially offices 0:21:54.480 --> 0:21:57.400 at twenty and I had six people I could bring, 0:21:57.960 --> 0:22:02.639 and we divided it by alphabet and we'd watch tapes 0:22:02.960 --> 0:22:06.480 from morning till night and um, and then at the 0:22:06.560 --> 0:22:09.679 end of the night they'd show me all their selections, 0:22:09.680 --> 0:22:13.119 you know whatever. And so that's what started, and we 0:22:13.160 --> 0:22:15.760 did that, and then we got a call from Dante 0:22:15.840 --> 0:22:19.919 that Ryan needed a needed to see a bunch of 0:22:19.920 --> 0:22:21.680 people the next day or something, and I'm like, oh 0:22:21.680 --> 0:22:24.840 my gosh, we haven't you know. So we stayed up 0:22:24.880 --> 0:22:27.760 till six thirty in the morning. I rememberly we were leaving, 0:22:28.520 --> 0:22:30.880 all of the sun was coming up and and then 0:22:31.720 --> 0:22:33.960 we never showed it at that point. Then the whole 0:22:34.000 --> 0:22:39.159 thing went away and was was completely gone, and months 0:22:39.240 --> 0:22:46.600 later came back and then they had the people from 0:22:46.600 --> 0:22:50.399 not from Oxygen, but the main producers come talk to 0:22:50.480 --> 0:22:52.679 me and they said, could I developed some kind of 0:22:54.080 --> 0:22:56.760 system for auditioning for that? And they said, we're gonna 0:22:56.800 --> 0:22:59.520 see you know, we saw a hundred thousand people. I mean, 0:22:59.560 --> 0:23:03.840 that's what's crazy. But oh yeah, we saw fifty thousand 0:23:03.960 --> 0:23:06.280 per season and that was the hot to got your it, 0:23:06.960 --> 0:23:09.440 and so, you know, I never been in a situation 0:23:09.480 --> 0:23:14.560 like that. You know, Wow, it was insane. And Damien 0:23:14.960 --> 0:23:18.480 Samuel and Alex Newell were all people that we had 0:23:18.520 --> 0:23:22.639