Speaker 1: And That's what you really missed with Jenna and Kevin
Speaker 1: and I Heart Radio podcast. Welcome back. We're here for
Speaker 1: another episode of and That's what you really missed. And
Speaker 1: we have a wonderful, awesome, really cool guest today and
Speaker 1: Amy Winner, if you will. Mr Robert Ulrich, the Glee
Speaker 1: casting director, himself extraordinaire. He cast Glee, he cast the
Speaker 1: Glee Project, He was on the Glee Project, and then
Speaker 1: he cast a million shows after that, worked very closely
Speaker 1: with Ryan Murphy on many other shows. And we learned
Speaker 1: so much and he was he gave away a lot
Speaker 1: of secrets. Yeah, and I feel like talking to him
Speaker 1: provided a lot of flashbacks for us for our auditions
Speaker 1: and whatnot. Yeah, it takes me back to that place. True, Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1: And it's I also feel like the casting director's perspective
Speaker 1: is one that's not necessarily hurt as much. You hear
Speaker 1: all of our versions of the audition stories over and
Speaker 1: over and over. Um, it's very enlightening to hear um
Speaker 1: his perspective of the entire experience. I was also going
Speaker 1: to say during the interview, Um, I'm really grateful that
Speaker 1: he has such fond memories of the show as well.
Speaker 1: It just goes to show again what we're doing on
Speaker 1: this podcast is like all the joy that was surrounded
Speaker 1: and all the good people that we were surrounded by,
Speaker 1: and that we're like lifting us up and supporting us
Speaker 1: through it all. You know, it's like again and just
Speaker 1: another testimonial to like the wonderful things that really did
Speaker 1: for people. So yeah, it was all very It all
Speaker 1: felt very joyous and very celebratory, and we got to
Speaker 1: spend a lot of time with him because he was
Speaker 1: always included. He seems really grateful. He's just a really
Speaker 1: good guy in um, Hollywood is lucky to have casting
Speaker 1: directors like him. So let's get to it. Yeah, enjoy
Speaker 1: our conversation with the gleecasting director Robert or work Um.
Speaker 1: Robert or the one and only, the god of us,
Speaker 1: basically the reason for our existence. Casting director producer, uh,
Speaker 1: the one we all at all too Hello, has cast,
Speaker 1: like you know, over a billion shows. Just I don't
Speaker 1: know how you have time to do anything that I have.
Speaker 1: I don't welcome. Luckily, I'm still working. That's the good
Speaker 1: that's the good news. Yeah, so many shows after Glee
Speaker 1: was like your big show for sure, Glue was Yes.
Speaker 1: I mean I've done I've done Battlestar Galactica, which had
Speaker 1: its own cult following totally and with my business arnder Eric,
Speaker 1: and then I had done um oh, when I did
Speaker 1: a show called Dark Angel and it was not long
Speaker 1: after Titanic, and I remember hearing it was in development.
Speaker 1: I loved Titanic. I'm like, oh, I'll never get that.
Speaker 1: And then I got a call and I interviewed and
Speaker 1: I got it. So, um, I've done those things. Those
Speaker 1: were kind of the big things, but nothing likely. I
Speaker 1: mean Glee. You know, Glee was a global phenomenon really,
Speaker 1: you know, and it helped me tremendously and um, yeah,
Speaker 1: so that Glee was a great thing. Glee's the highlight
Speaker 1: of my life for sure. Have you worked with Ryan before?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we'd worked with Brian from the beginning, but
Speaker 1: I hadn't much. Um, we did Popular and we did Niptuck.
Speaker 1: We'd already been up proNT in me for Niptuck. When
Speaker 1: when you know, when Glee came around, Um, and my
Speaker 1: business partner Ryan offered it too, because I've been in
Speaker 1: one casting session for Niptuck and uh, and it's a
Speaker 1: test network, test situation when Eric was out of town
Speaker 1: for for Popular but I really didn't know Ryan at Also.
Speaker 1: Ryan offered it to Eric, and Eric came to me
Speaker 1: a few days later and he said, Robert, would you
Speaker 1: be interested to know you're into musicals and stuff. I'm like, yes,
Speaker 1: and so I So Eric was on at the very
Speaker 1: beginning for like two weeks and then, uh, it just
Speaker 1: wasn't his thing, you know, But it took me a
Speaker 1: while to earn to earn Ryan's trust for sure. I know,
Speaker 1: it was like it was crazy because I just think
Speaker 1: he thought, you know, I don't know what he thought,
Speaker 1: but but anyway, I took it took a while. But
Speaker 1: during the by the end of the whole pilot casting situation,
Speaker 1: than I had definitely gotten distressed. And yeah, I think, so, yeah,
Speaker 1: you sort of nailed it. You know, what was your
Speaker 1: initial reaction before you had even taken on the casting, like,
Speaker 1: you know, but when I just read the yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I thought it was great, and I remember
Speaker 1: thinking I can't imagine they'll be able to do this,
Speaker 1: and then the fact that you guys did it week
Speaker 1: after week is and it just got more and more
Speaker 1: and more elaborate. You know. That was my first thing was,
Speaker 1: I don't know how this will ever come off, you know,
Speaker 1: And that was probably just that I thought it was
Speaker 1: really good. The first time I saw it, Ryan had
Speaker 1: Eric and I over to We watched it like on
Speaker 1: a computer. It was the editing Bay or whatever, and
Speaker 1: that was when I was just blown away and right,
Speaker 1: and I knew that I knew it was special. But
Speaker 1: you know, who knew who knew? You know? And then
Speaker 1: I remember they had a party for the episode. Which
Speaker 1: episode was it? Where it was? She? It was the
Speaker 1: song it was? It might have been was the second episode? Yes? Yes?
Speaker 1: Was that the second episode? Yes? And there was a
Speaker 1: screening party somewhere I remember, and with like you know,
Speaker 1: popcorn and all kinds. Yeah, it was like high school
Speaker 1: was out of high school yet Monica high school. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then I just knew that it was you know,
Speaker 1: it was just so amazing, and yeah, I was obsessed.
Speaker 1: I used to get the dailies when they were on DVD.
Speaker 1: I still have all these Wow you were very special dailies.
Speaker 1: We all wanted the dailies, but we never got that
Speaker 1: it was. Let me say, it was hard to get him.
Speaker 1: I don't know if I don't know if anybody even knew.
Speaker 1: I'm sure I always kind of to angle my way
Speaker 1: in and get those things. I don't think. I don't
Speaker 1: know if anybody knew I was watching them. I was
Speaker 1: so excited because I, you know, be able to see
Speaker 1: this stuff that was happening even before the show was
Speaker 1: cut right right, and I was so into it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what is it like on your end? You know, because
Speaker 1: we're only privy to very much our side of when
Speaker 1: you go audition for something, you go into room and
Speaker 1: you have all those thoughts into your head on your
Speaker 1: side of things like during the initial casting of this
Speaker 1: casting the pilot, especially what because this was such a
Speaker 1: unique and different show and like you said, no one
Speaker 1: thought it would be able to be pulled off. What
Speaker 1: were your I don't know what were you looking for?
Speaker 1: I guess in terms of like I bombed my initial
Speaker 1: and somehow, but somehow you were like, yeah, the maniot,
Speaker 1: you can't say that anymore now. Yeah, but see from
Speaker 1: my perspective, I was like, yeah, but when you're going
Speaker 1: in and you're looking for all of these intentionally different,
Speaker 1: you know, outcast type characters, are you seeing people you're
Speaker 1: not normally seeing? Like? What what was that like for you, well,
Speaker 1: Ryan was You know, Ryan is incredible in in obviously
Speaker 1: a million ways, but one of the ways is that
Speaker 1: he knows exactly what he wants and so he's very
Speaker 1: specific and you know what you're looking for. But at
Speaker 1: the same time, he's completely open too something new, you know,
Speaker 1: like the Chris cole for of it all. You know
Speaker 1: that wast so um So. What I did, uh know though,
Speaker 1: was that he wanted real kids. I mean, he said,
Speaker 1: I want this to I want everybody to seem really real,
Speaker 1: like you know, real high school students. So that was
Speaker 1: kind of my um my thought when I went into
Speaker 1: the casting, and that, you know, he didn't want it
Speaker 1: to come off at all fake, and obviously everybody had
Speaker 1: the same um So I had I had done a
Speaker 1: because at that point, you know, now there's so many musicals.
Speaker 1: There wasn't you know, there wasn't there weren't TV musical
Speaker 1: So I had figured out a system that worked and
Speaker 1: continued to work the whole time on a pilot that
Speaker 1: I was involved with a couple of years before, called Rhapsody,
Speaker 1: which was an NBC pilot. It was amazing. It was
Speaker 1: every season was going to be a different artist and
Speaker 1: the first season was Elton John and so it was
Speaker 1: all his library music and it was very kind of dark,
Speaker 1: like a Romeo and Juliet kind of sexy dark thing
Speaker 1: that took place a little bit in the future, in
Speaker 1: the in the aerospace. It was very interesting, very good. Anyway,
Speaker 1: we got all the way to the going to the
Speaker 1: network test and then they pulled the plug. I think
Speaker 1: it was just, you know, so hard for anybody to
Speaker 1: wrap their head around Ryant. But it was really good.
Speaker 1: But during that I had kind of had this system
Speaker 1: where I had people come and sing a couple of
Speaker 1: songs to me in the office like you did, Kevin,
Speaker 1: just right across the desk from me, if I remember,
Speaker 1: and um and then uh. And then we would go
Speaker 1: to the producers and I'd have a pianist because I
Speaker 1: always felt from my musical theater background that that good
Speaker 1: singers are better with the pianist, and and people that
Speaker 1: aren't is good or helped tremendously by by a companiment,
Speaker 1: you know. But that was around American audo, where everything
Speaker 1: was just people just singing acapella. But anyway, so I
Speaker 1: had a piano player and he I for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: I didn't think it was working, and so I investigated
Speaker 1: somehow I got Brad Ellis and so when this came around,
Speaker 1: I thought of Brad, you know, I did exactly the
Speaker 1: same thing, and we would I get the collection of
Speaker 1: the people and we go over to to the studio
Speaker 1: on and Ryan and Ian and everybody was there and um,
Speaker 1: and that's how we did it. So it all it
Speaker 1: seemed to just work out great. You know, that's the
Speaker 1: way that it worked. And we did that for the
Speaker 1: whole show, you know. I mean there's been along people
Speaker 1: saying acapella for the guest spots because obviously they did
Speaker 1: in our little teeny space in my office. It's crazy.
Speaker 1: We had people like flipping and doing everything in that
Speaker 1: little room. Now that they think about it, so bizarre.
Speaker 1: We also we would because we cast the initial warplers,
Speaker 1: you know, and so we we um Alanna who worked
Speaker 1: with me. I don't know if you guys know Alana,
Speaker 1: she and Rory who worked with me, and Rory ended
Speaker 1: up on Glee as bad Girl singer. Um. We they
Speaker 1: would figure out this little dance routine and um, and
Speaker 1: they would teach it and we I have videos still
Speaker 1: where people would be lined up and down the hallway
Speaker 1: they'd be in. It was crazy doing that silly little
Speaker 1: routine and that's what we'd send to Ryan, and that's
Speaker 1: how people got cast, you know. So somebody did have
Speaker 1: to dance for their audition after all they did. You know.
Speaker 1: It's funny because I always hear that they danced for
Speaker 1: the initials initial auditions and nobody, but none of us
Speaker 1: would have been cast. So went on. Everybody danced for
Speaker 1: all the guest spots. Once they realized they made during
Speaker 1: the pilot, they made a real mistake not having any
Speaker 1: of us dance. I think I just started doing it.
Speaker 1: I don't even know. Ryan was so great about letting me.
Speaker 1: I mean, we only went to studio I think after
Speaker 1: you guys one time, I believe, and that was when
Speaker 1: Cord was cast, because even Darren was just cast off
Speaker 1: of a tape, you know, and nobody and Diana was
Speaker 1: cast like the night before he started shooting. No one
Speaker 1: saw her until she showed. I remember that. What a
Speaker 1: wild and cookie casting experience for everybody. I know, it
Speaker 1: was ugly. It was the most wild, you know, and
Speaker 1: a lot of times the stuff that was being asked
Speaker 1: because wasn't there like a circus episode or something where
Speaker 1: people had somebody had some kind of and the way
Speaker 1: people doing all these like circus skills in the office. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there were there were times when people needed that. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there was crazy and then there was Yeah, there was
Speaker 1: all kinds of bizarre stuff that you on no other
Speaker 1: show before since I've ever been involved with you know,
Speaker 1: now you're just you're prepped and ready to go for
Speaker 1: anything that come. I've done it since was Zoe for
Speaker 1: another musical stuff. But yeah, it's crazy, Kevin. Your audition
Speaker 1: was great and I always always say you'd tell that
Speaker 1: and you saying let it be not. I remember all
Speaker 1: this stuff like it was yesterday because it was so
Speaker 1: fun for me. Everything is so vivid to me still.
Speaker 1: You know. I remember when Naya auditioned. We were in
Speaker 1: a rush and we had because I think that role
Speaker 1: got written in later, and and she literally we stood
Speaker 1: and I just said saying something, saying something because their
Speaker 1: look was so great, and she's saying just kind of
Speaker 1: standing across the before she went over to sing for everybody.
Speaker 1: It was just crazy. Wow. Yeah, but you knew you
Speaker 1: still saw something in all of us, right, Oh yeah, no, no,
Speaker 1: for sure. I mean for sure. And even though Jenna
Speaker 1: came from New York, she's still went to the whole
Speaker 1: process here and we're up against people here, and that's
Speaker 1: always I'm so glad that that, um it doesn't exist anymore,
Speaker 1: and I don't think that it will ever come back.
Speaker 1: I hope where people going to the network room and
Speaker 1: the room at least there it was the same room, right,
Speaker 1: Mostly you have to go to a different location and right, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's changed so much now you'll never see suits at home.
Speaker 1: You know. It was so weird, you sitting in a
Speaker 1: room with your competitors signing your life away for five years.
Speaker 1: I mean, it was just a terrible system. But at
Speaker 1: least with Glee it was there was a piano in
Speaker 1: the room, so it kind of hit it like a party,
Speaker 1: and it was different than than most network tests. What
Speaker 1: you're just hideous, you know, and having Brad like Brad
Speaker 1: was the pianist through all of it. I was lucky
Speaker 1: enough to be in l A the whole time, so
Speaker 1: I yeah, I got him for three out of the
Speaker 1: four auditions. Yeah, all except for the one with me. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: And and also you know, there's something really I think
Speaker 1: anybody that meets you, You're like incredibly warm and encouraging
Speaker 1: to people, and so you and Ryan during those studio
Speaker 1: and network tests also made a point to make everybody
Speaker 1: feel comfortable because it is a really if you haven't
Speaker 1: been through it, such a pressure cooker. Yeah, it's an awful,
Speaker 1: awful experience. It was just so archaic, and it happened
Speaker 1: for so many years. Everybody just thought that it's what
Speaker 1: the way it should be. And and every time I
Speaker 1: think about it, just so crazy too, because you're you're
Speaker 1: asked to perform for this room full of people, and
Speaker 1: and yet when you're on camera it's going to be
Speaker 1: like this exactly. Well, it became kind of performative. I
Speaker 1: mean it was it's a whole different thing. It turned
Speaker 1: into you need to know how to audition, but that's
Speaker 1: necessarily the same skill as acting on a team show
Speaker 1: or in a film, you know, And there are people
Speaker 1: that were great auditioners and people that were terrible auditioners.
Speaker 1: You know. I had nothing to do with actually the
Speaker 1: talent of getting the you know, the job and doing
Speaker 1: it on the show. But that's right. I think we
Speaker 1: have a lot of listeners probably that are pursuing this
Speaker 1: as a career, young young adults, and I know they
Speaker 1: hear it over and over again, but I'm sure hearing
Speaker 1: it from you, like you want them to be the
Speaker 1: person you do. I mean it only, I mean even
Speaker 1: just from a very self fish standpoint. It just makes
Speaker 1: my job easier if people are good and right, you know,
Speaker 1: and a lot of it's been right too, but uh,
Speaker 1: but yes, and it just yeah, I always wanted everybody
Speaker 1: to be their best, you know, always, you know, from
Speaker 1: the and and luckily, I mean maybe because I was
Speaker 1: an actor and married too to an actress. Actor now
Speaker 1: it's an actor. Uh, you know, I had christ have
Speaker 1: incredible empathy for for the art because it's terrible and
Speaker 1: trying to get a job is just the hardest thing
Speaker 1: in the world. We ask you to come in and
Speaker 1: be vulnerable, and and half the time you're in the past,
Speaker 1: you were in the waiting room for three hours and
Speaker 1: you have to come in and you know, it's just
Speaker 1: it's a crazy system. But unfortunately it's the only system
Speaker 1: that there is. You know, that's right, that's right. How
Speaker 1: is it now nowadays for you? Because the system is
Speaker 1: so different, so I mean before and people who aren't
Speaker 1: in this business Um. Now, as actors, we all sort
Speaker 1: of tape ourselves at home and send in tapes. How
Speaker 1: I mean, the thing is, I personally prefer that because
Speaker 1: I'm a ball of nerves and I hate auditioning. However,
Speaker 1: the times that I've done the best and these things
Speaker 1: are like when I was with you, where you are
Speaker 1: able to have the personal connection and maybe you can
Speaker 1: see through you know that the nerves and all that
Speaker 1: to something that even maybe I don't necessarily recognize it myself.
Speaker 1: How has that that shift been for you in terms
Speaker 1: of your work? Well, initially, I was very opposed to
Speaker 1: it because I love people, and I love my favorite
Speaker 1: part of my job really was meeting the people, meeting
Speaker 1: you know, and um, and so I mean I was
Speaker 1: never I've never been somebody who's enjoyed the negotiating side
Speaker 1: of or any of that. It's just not my favorite part.
Speaker 1: But um, but I was super opposed to it. And uh,
Speaker 1: and I thought you could never do chemistry readings unless
Speaker 1: you were in the room and all that. I think
Speaker 1: that there's you know, and I loved going to my
Speaker 1: office and everything in my office. We gave up our office.
Speaker 1: We held on to it for a year and then yeah,
Speaker 1: it's really sad. That was a lifetime of goodness. I
Speaker 1: think about it every time I go past I didn't
Speaker 1: know then the four and twenty next stor every day
Speaker 1: that's gone. I mean, but anyway, so I am. I
Speaker 1: was very sad about it. But I think that overall
Speaker 1: it is better. I mean, the only thing you miss is,
Speaker 1: which is a big thing, is the personal connection and
Speaker 1: the getting to know the casting director and the producers.
Speaker 1: That and you also miss when you're auditioning. It's now
Speaker 1: a a job about making a choice that happens to
Speaker 1: be the right choice because you don't have the cast
Speaker 1: director that or anybody saying, oh no, that's not what
Speaker 1: they want to do it this way. You just have
Speaker 1: to make a choice and hope that you know. So
Speaker 1: that's the big negative. But I think that the positive
Speaker 1: is so much because for anybody that's the least bit
Speaker 1: nervous that gets wiped out. Also, you can do it
Speaker 1: a hundred times until you're happy with it. It's also
Speaker 1: a business about, like I said, being being close up
Speaker 1: and everybody's you know. So all that I think is
Speaker 1: so I think overall it's better. Yeah, And and I
Speaker 1: don't know when it will ever get back to the
Speaker 1: other way, because I don't even know a casting I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm sure there are many casts have kept their own offices,
Speaker 1: but I don't I know so many that have given
Speaker 1: up their offices, you know. Yeah, why why waste the
Speaker 1: money when you're not using it? It's sitting there vacant,
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, it's interesting. It's it's interesting because, like
Speaker 1: you said, for me, taping gets rid of the nerves
Speaker 1: for me. But I also take direction really well in
Speaker 1: the room, and I know that casting directors noticed that.
Speaker 1: So for me, it's like making the shifts is where
Speaker 1: I really thrive. And not to be able to not
Speaker 1: be able to do that and have any direction it
Speaker 1: really does you know, it isn't beneficial in many ways.
Speaker 1: Can we talk about the Glee project? UM, tell us
Speaker 1: about how Ryan came to you with the project and
Speaker 1: what he said to you, and what that experience was
Speaker 1: like for you because we only we were so busy
Speaker 1: working on the actual show, like we only got little
Speaker 1: tastes of it. Yeah, the the the Glee project, along
Speaker 1: with Glee was the highlight of my professional life for sure.
Speaker 1: I mean it was amazing, um ther Ryan told me
Speaker 1: we were, there was a party at the chateau for
Speaker 1: some That's the other thing is as a casting director,
Speaker 1: you never rarely meet the cast. And I had never
Speaker 1: been included in anything or had so many parties. I mean,
Speaker 1: so I was we were always all together and you Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I was there and Ryan came up to me
Speaker 1: and he said, I have something Monday. I'm gonna tell
Speaker 1: you that's gonna make you You're gonna be very excited.
Speaker 1: I'm like, can you tell me now? Dangle the carrot? Right,
Speaker 1: So I never heard anything. I didn't hear anything Monday.
Speaker 1: I didn't anything Tuesday, didn't he And a couple of
Speaker 1: weeks later, Dante called me and said that there was
Speaker 1: going to be this reality show and UM, could I
Speaker 1: start looking for people? You know? So they so initially
Speaker 1: it was on my Space and that's right, yeah, on
Speaker 1: my space and they and they they provided initially offices
Speaker 1: at twenty and I had six people I could bring,
Speaker 1: and we divided it by alphabet and we'd watch tapes
Speaker 1: from morning till night and um, and then at the
Speaker 1: end of the night they'd show me all their selections,
Speaker 1: you know whatever. And so that's what started, and we
Speaker 1: did that, and then we got a call from Dante
Speaker 1: that Ryan needed a needed to see a bunch of
Speaker 1: people the next day or something, and I'm like, oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, we haven't you know. So we stayed up
Speaker 1: till six thirty in the morning. I rememberly we were leaving,
Speaker 1: all of the sun was coming up and and then
Speaker 1: we never showed it at that point. Then the whole
Speaker 1: thing went away and was was completely gone, and months
Speaker 1: later came back and then they had the people from
Speaker 1: not from Oxygen, but the main producers come talk to
Speaker 1: me and they said, could I developed some kind of
Speaker 1: system for auditioning for that? And they said, we're gonna
Speaker 1: see you know, we saw a hundred thousand people. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's what's crazy. But oh yeah, we saw fifty thousand
Speaker 1: per season and that was the hot to got your it,
Speaker 1: and so, you know, I never been in a situation
Speaker 1: like that. You know, Wow, it was insane. And Damien
Speaker 1: Samuel and Alex Newell were all people that we had
Speaker 1: seen at twenty century Fox in that little room, and
Speaker 1: so I remembered them and brought them back into the
Speaker 1: you know, to audition. Maybe we use there, I don't know,
Speaker 1: because it was it wasn't on my space anymore. And
Speaker 1: then I had a team, and I mean it was,
Speaker 1: it was amazing. And then when we um, they hired
Speaker 1: a reality uh company that would set up the open calls,
Speaker 1: and I did open calls and at that time they
Speaker 1: I swear to god, they were like American Idol Chicago.
Speaker 1: People had camped out the night before in the snow.
Speaker 1: The first person that came in was a pregnant woman.
Speaker 1: She started singing and had to be rushed to the hospital.
Speaker 1: That's the truth. I mean, people have been all night.
Speaker 1: You know, how did we not know any of this
Speaker 1: was going on? That's oh it was. It was crazy,
Speaker 1: crazy And and the first season we just went to
Speaker 1: two cities, Chicago and Fort Worth. The next year we
Speaker 1: went to New York, Chicago and Nashville. These open calls
Speaker 1: were giants. So between the open calls and the online
Speaker 1: submissions because we had an online thing, and the in
Speaker 1: office auditions, that's how we came up with the people.
Speaker 1: And and when we got back from the open calls, UM,
Speaker 1: it was I narrowed it down and Alex Newman and
Speaker 1: I had Joe McCullum then and Lana and there were
Speaker 1: a bunch of wenned down the five hundred people from
Speaker 1: from fifty thousand, and those five hundred we put on
Speaker 1: the walls in office. The pictures are crazy. It covered
Speaker 1: my entire office categories, you know, because I really wanted
Speaker 1: it to be diverse and in in every way, you know,
Speaker 1: especially the second season. Um and so uh. From that,
Speaker 1: we narrowed it down to eighty and those eighty from
Speaker 1: fifty thousand came to Long Beach. They flew all over
Speaker 1: the country and they did like a boot camp with
Speaker 1: Zack and Nicky Anders, who was the vocal remember that.
Speaker 1: And we narrowed that down to thirty people, and those
Speaker 1: thirties sing for Ryan and then well for the first
Speaker 1: season fourteen the next season. But I didn't really know,
Speaker 1: and this is also the truth. I did not know
Speaker 1: until I showed up the first day there that I
Speaker 1: was on camera. I had I mean I didn't, I
Speaker 1: had no idea. I'm like, what and they're saying You're
Speaker 1: getting blah blah blah blah blah, and I'm like, oh
Speaker 1: my god. And I wasn't. In those days. I was
Speaker 1: a terrible public speaker. I was so nervous. I mean,
Speaker 1: I was a mess, and maybe it's better you didn't
Speaker 1: know then it probably and Darren was Darren was the
Speaker 1: first mentor. And because I kind of knew Darren, he
Speaker 1: made me very very relaxed, and he's good at that
Speaker 1: and and and I just then after the first day,
Speaker 1: I was like, I got this, you know, And then
Speaker 1: I then I really enjoyed it, and it was my Um.
Speaker 1: I've never had any regrets at all. And that's the
Speaker 1: honest truth about giving up my acting career. I was
Speaker 1: not a good actor. I was I was a good
Speaker 1: classroom actor, but I was terrible. And I had no regrets.
Speaker 1: And I live bycarously to my wife. UM, but I
Speaker 1: was able to live out any bit of that that remained,
Speaker 1: you know, on the Glee project. And so that's but
Speaker 1: I didn't know. I'm like, oh my gosh. And then
Speaker 1: I was. There were five day shoots, which is a
Speaker 1: lot for reality show, but because of the they had
Speaker 1: the video and all the music and all that, and
Speaker 1: I worked four the five days. It was crazy. And
Speaker 1: at that point, um, somewhere in there, the new normal
Speaker 1: was happening. And I did some lists for it because
Speaker 1: at that point Ryan had only used our company. The
Speaker 1: result and I got a call from him saying that
Speaker 1: Dana Walden said that I couldn't do it, that I
Speaker 1: was talent now and I had to just and I
Speaker 1: was like, yes, that's all I had to do was
Speaker 1: Glee and Supernatural and and yeah that was good. Wow, wow,
Speaker 1: wow wow. I'm sure that kept you busy for enough.
Speaker 1: I used to come home and at night and I'd
Speaker 1: be you know, and I'd getten bad and would be
Speaker 1: like three in the morning, and the phone would bring
Speaker 1: it to be Zack and I get my center, and
Speaker 1: my son was at college, and Kim would go, you know,
Speaker 1: go talk to your boyfriend, go talk, you know, and
Speaker 1: so and Zach and I talked every single night during
Speaker 1: the Glee project. Every night. Yeah, Zack is amazing, truly,
Speaker 1: what a horse and never complained and did so much.
Speaker 1: He's incredible. No, not yet, we're going to have him on.
Speaker 1: We're gonna happen effort. He's also so busy. He's still
Speaker 1: so busy. He's always busy, tried to get together count
Speaker 1: of time. Yeah, he's so wonderful. He's one of the
Speaker 1: I feel like the publicly unsung heroes of making sure
Speaker 1: that shows stayed on and working for as long as
Speaker 1: it did. For sure, the fact that he never got
Speaker 1: an Emmy nomination, I can't. I mean, it's so crazy
Speaker 1: because he he took complete non dancers and then Harry
Speaker 1: Showman Heather and made me look cohesive, yeah doing you know,
Speaker 1: several number mini members by the end an episode of
Speaker 1: Every Style. I mean, he was a genius, I think.
Speaker 1: And obviously Brooke is incredible too, and Mandy Moore came
Speaker 1: on for when I worked with Mandy on Zoe's Yeah,
Speaker 1: cruel people, I mean, I mean, speaking of Emmy's you
Speaker 1: want an Emmy congratulate eleven? Right it was the second season. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I am. Yeah, I've been up for eight Mmies. But
Speaker 1: so but the only reason I say that is not
Speaker 1: from a conceited standpoint, from a standpoint you sit through
Speaker 1: that show, and in those days it was one night.
Speaker 1: Now it's two nights, and it was four and half hours,
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, and to lose we were either the
Speaker 1: first award or the last award. Every You're just like,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's wonderful, wonderful be nominated, and I hope
Speaker 1: I am again. But but it was that. But yes,
Speaker 1: so the first season, I actually I thought I was
Speaker 1: gonna win because they had Jane Lynch presenting our award
Speaker 1: and um and I just I don't know, I just
Speaker 1: because it because it was this whole show of discovery,
Speaker 1: you know. I thought that that I would probably in
Speaker 1: Modern Family, which was incredible, and he's the genius caster,
Speaker 1: director and one. But so the second season I didn't
Speaker 1: think I would you know them, And then we did
Speaker 1: and it was and my wife and Eric and his wife.
Speaker 1: To show how excited we were when we won, neither
Speaker 1: of us could remember who presented the award. I mean,
Speaker 1: we just and the one person of All Blackout, All
Speaker 1: Blackout forgot to think was Ryan And luckily people were
Speaker 1: screaming from the audience, right. It was the most excited
Speaker 1: I've ever been. Yeah, it was. It was. I do
Speaker 1: feel that it was, you know, I mean, everybody just
Speaker 1: deserves it, that's up. But I mean that was really
Speaker 1: a show of of discovering. That really was. I mean,
Speaker 1: hardly anyone I don't think anyone in the first season
Speaker 1: except for Matthew Morrison, who had a major Broadway currently
Speaker 1: I have had him and I mean obviously you were
Speaker 1: on Broadway, and so Leah was kind of in the
Speaker 1: same situation as you. Really, I'd say Matthew Morrison was
Speaker 1: the only person, wasn't he that had any kind of
Speaker 1: major credits? Yeah, ish Yeah, I mean I feel like
Speaker 1: this was really all of our big ob Yeah that
Speaker 1: matt had done I think Hairspray at the time, and
Speaker 1: maybe salth was itself, Pacific and or Light in the Piazza. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but that was I mean even that, you know, it's
Speaker 1: such a different scale of what, you know, what they
Speaker 1: did Sufferent World, Yeah, exactly. This stuff was. It was really,
Speaker 1: it was incredible. I was just so proud of it.
Speaker 1: And I'll allow you guys, I mean every single person
Speaker 1: cast on that I was so proud of and loved. Yeah,
Speaker 1: very I mean, it was just it was an incredible show.
Speaker 1: It was and I know that you know, there's all
Speaker 1: the trashing of it at certain points, but that basically
Speaker 1: happens to any show, but especially oh uh, you know big.
Speaker 1: It was just so big. How did that feel too?
Speaker 1: From your perspective of, you know, you cast the pilot,
Speaker 1: we do the first thirteen and nobody's really seen anything.
Speaker 1: Then all of a sudden it does become this phenomenon.
Speaker 1: You're now on TV yourself. That was crazy, Like what
Speaker 1: I mean the like, how did your I guess professional
Speaker 1: life besides the Glee project? Like what was that? Yeah? Like, well,
Speaker 1: I mean I got um, I began to get you know,
Speaker 1: in which people still do to this day. Um, people
Speaker 1: buying me, you know, which they've never done before. You know,
Speaker 1: where they pay money and it goes to a charity.
Speaker 1: And we had lunch and stuff like that. That whole
Speaker 1: thing have started. Happy we should never happened. Um. I
Speaker 1: started getting you know, fan mail and a lot of
Speaker 1: people reaching out, Um, a lot of kids reaching out
Speaker 1: like in need, and so I would be onto the
Speaker 1: Trevor Project and all that stuff that I'd never been
Speaker 1: associated with. You know, I just um because casting directors
Speaker 1: were always kind of in the background, and I got
Speaker 1: when I was on the Glee project. I have to
Speaker 1: say that the casting community was so wonderful to me
Speaker 1: because they were happy that I was representing it well
Speaker 1: because the only insight the castracts at that point, and
Speaker 1: TV had been kind of a lot of snarky and
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm just not I mean, it's just not
Speaker 1: my not my personality, you know. Um. So um it
Speaker 1: was wonderful. I mean, there was nothing negative. It was
Speaker 1: wonderful me. Who wouldn't you know? It was like I
Speaker 1: was talking to Alex Newman the other day and we're like,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, that all that time during Glee when
Speaker 1: they'd be like there's a party this week, there's a
Speaker 1: party next happened in the community. For me, at least,
Speaker 1: I remember speaking of we um. I would always kind
Speaker 1: of have to sneak my way into like the SAG
Speaker 1: Awards or any of those kind of things and manipulate it.
Speaker 1: And and the year I was on the Glee project,
Speaker 1: I got a call and they said, um, what time
Speaker 1: do you want the car to come get you? I said,
Speaker 1: what do you mean the car to come get me?
Speaker 1: And they said, well, you know, to go to the
Speaker 1: SAG Awards. I said, no one's ever called. And I said,
Speaker 1: you're talent on that same word, and I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: that's fun. And then I was seated between Jane and Corey.
Speaker 1: That's the night that I was like, I've made it.
Speaker 1: I made it in the world of cast I mean,
Speaker 1: if anyone deserves to be at the SAG Wars, it's you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that room is in that room without casting directors. That's right,
Speaker 1: I gotta says is the best one because it is
Speaker 1: your peers and and everybody understands why they're there, and
Speaker 1: you know, it's just so I remember, I remember at
Speaker 1: the SAG Awards, I think the first year, did you
Speaker 1: guys won the first year? Didn't you? Yeah? Yeah, And
Speaker 1: so I was kind of on the prop or whatever,
Speaker 1: but I was talking to Diana and it seems like
Speaker 1: a bunch of you are around, and Meryl Street walked
Speaker 1: up to them, I think the whole per picture. She said,
Speaker 1: can I have my picture taken with you guys? To
Speaker 1: that to you guys, and I'm that is crazy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was That was very surreal, like holding holding our
Speaker 1: thirteen pound marble men with like you know you had
Speaker 1: like Meryl and then like yeah, we said was there.
Speaker 1: You're like, what is this life we live? Really really
Speaker 1: really wonderful? Um? What was your favorite role? To Cass
Speaker 1: do you have one? No? And this is not me bs,
Speaker 1: and I really loved every single role and was happy
Speaker 1: and proud of all of you and every roll. That
Speaker 1: is the truth. The most difficult roles were, um, Finn
Speaker 1: and Mercedes for sure. Um yeah, they were for sure
Speaker 1: because because you know, Ryan really wanted um Finn to
Speaker 1: be like this believable high school jock, you know, and
Speaker 1: yet to sing great. And we had flown people out
Speaker 1: from New York. We had so many auditions. And one
Speaker 1: night it was like two in the morning. I was
Speaker 1: in my office and Alex was out there and she
Speaker 1: was going through tapes and she said, Robert, comes see
Speaker 1: this guy. She said, he kind of looks like she
Speaker 1: reminded her of Ben Affleck. But I went out and
Speaker 1: watched him and he was drawing on this tumber where
Speaker 1: and he sing and I'm like, well, he's amazing, but
Speaker 1: he didn't say so um, So we called him, went
Speaker 1: back on tape and and then drove himself out here
Speaker 1: and that all and was you know, not in time
Speaker 1: to even um get his visa. Yeah, so that was crazy.
Speaker 1: So that was fun. And then Amber was also crazy
Speaker 1: because we had flown people in from all over and
Speaker 1: they were just ready to hire somebody who was not
Speaker 1: a singer. She was a rapper and she was great
Speaker 1: and fun and a wonderful actress and and but Ryan
Speaker 1: kept saying, I really want that voice. And my friend
Speaker 1: at the time, his girlfriend was either Amber's roommate or
Speaker 1: saying with the Amber in church or something. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: you said you can see this, and so I said okay,
Speaker 1: And so she came to my office set across from me,
Speaker 1: and she told this story. We won this, um my
Speaker 1: business partners, and I won this thing called the Artist,
Speaker 1: which is like a lifetime achievement thing. I'll have to
Speaker 1: send you guys this ceremony because you guys are in
Speaker 1: the video in the clips and stuff. Um. But anyway, so,
Speaker 1: um uh Amber told the story there. So I'm saying
Speaker 1: what you know, she said that she came in and
Speaker 1: she didn't even have a picture. We had to print
Speaker 1: it off of I think my space off of the
Speaker 1: computer and and um, and she's saying something and I
Speaker 1: was like, you know, I just knew it wasn't the
Speaker 1: voice that that Ryan wanted. So I said, you know,
Speaker 1: what can you sing? Um, what's the name of it?
Speaker 1: Telling you I'm not going from Dreamgirls whatever that? And
Speaker 1: I'm telling you, yeah, yeah, and I'm telling you And
Speaker 1: she said, oh, well, I've never done it, but and
Speaker 1: she's sang it, and I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: we have it. And when we took her over, when
Speaker 1: I took her oh it was. We used to play
Speaker 1: her audition over and over and it was just like,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh. Took over to Ryan and we knew
Speaker 1: we had it. She was, I never heard that, I've
Speaker 1: heard the Corey one. I didn't really, and like, you know,
Speaker 1: cut to her winning an Olivier Award. You've got to
Speaker 1: listen to her things, she said, And then I went
Speaker 1: on to with the Olivia Award. Yeah, that role. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's so pretty special. So I don't think that song
Speaker 1: was in the show or anything at that point. I
Speaker 1: know it ultimately was. I think I just thought of
Speaker 1: it because I knew they wanted a big bel turn.
Speaker 1: I think a CULTI song. Off the top of my head,
Speaker 1: that's the one. That was one song the first season
Speaker 1: the good Way Project. Dante or Ryan or somebody chose
Speaker 1: the ten audition songs. The next season. I was involved
Speaker 1: that season. One of the audition songs was that song,
Speaker 1: which I used to love. Oh, and you'd have to
Speaker 1: wait kind of to the end, Yes, silly see that
Speaker 1: singing and it was so long we couldn't fast forward
Speaker 1: on my Space. Yeah. I remember those college auditions. They'd
Speaker 1: be like, these are the songs you don't sing in
Speaker 1: an audition. The nos. But see, that's the beauty of
Speaker 1: being I think a great casting director. It's giving people
Speaker 1: the opportunity that you think can rise to the occasion.
Speaker 1: Sometimes they don't. But Amber did you just and she
Speaker 1: and then they found out later coincidentally that she'd worked
Speaker 1: for Ryan as a little girl, right, and she had
Speaker 1: audition for American Idol, which everybody was asking her like,
Speaker 1: I can't believe you got turned away and she's like,
Speaker 1: you guys know, it wasn't that big of a deal.
Speaker 1: And now she's the first person to win. I said
Speaker 1: that to kill last night. She's just the greatest. No, truly,
Speaker 1: we are like honored to walk in her presence. Truly,
Speaker 1: we're very lucky that you put the exact group together
Speaker 1: that you did. Yeah, we have been obsessed with each
Speaker 1: other since, you know, the moment we all met. So
Speaker 1: it's wonderful and so you know, I yeah, it's just
Speaker 1: when it was like that lightning in the bottle. And
Speaker 1: and I have to give Ryan all the credit because Ryan,
Speaker 1: like I said, was always open. There was never anybody
Speaker 1: to outside of the box for Ryan. There just wasn't.
Speaker 1: I mean, he he was just open to anything, and
Speaker 1: it was amazing. I mean I every New Year's Eve
Speaker 1: I write him and just say thank you for my career.
Speaker 1: You don't have to respond, It's just I want you
Speaker 1: to know that you know he's been He's been amazing
Speaker 1: to me. And it also you know, it takes someone
Speaker 1: I think at the head like him having an open
Speaker 1: mind and someone like you also being able to have
Speaker 1: an open mind and search it out and find the magic.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you, Robert. We are indebted to you
Speaker 1: and also grateful that you've come on the show and
Speaker 1: and shared. I'm sure everybody loved to hear these kind
Speaker 1: of BTS stories, So thank you so much, and it's
Speaker 1: just something for both of you soon. I'm we'd love that.
Speaker 1: Kevin and I really like to work together as well.
Speaker 1: Just you know, if you need like dead body number
Speaker 1: two and three, where are your men and women? Anyway,
Speaker 1: we really appreciate it, and we we love seeing you
Speaker 1: and chatting with you, and thank you so much. Good
Speaker 1: talk to you. Thank you for having me. I mean
Speaker 1: so much, thank you, Robert boy. That was good. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think as like a selfish actor, I think you
Speaker 1: can't hear too much from a casting perspective. It's true,
Speaker 1: and he's one of the nicest ones. He's one of
Speaker 1: the nicest people. And um, you don't like when you
Speaker 1: go into a room, like I said, you are so
Speaker 1: focused on and like he said, the choice you're making,
Speaker 1: Like you have to make this choice. Do I know
Speaker 1: the tone of the project I'm going in for? I
Speaker 1: have to if it's a show that's not on or
Speaker 1: a movie that's not on, you just have to sort
Speaker 1: of make a decision and roll with it. And you know,
Speaker 1: it's it feels like life or death almost every time
Speaker 1: you go in that room because you want a job,
Speaker 1: You desperately want to be able to work and show
Speaker 1: your abilities, and then you have somebody who is the
Speaker 1: decider of your future, you know, sitting on the outside
Speaker 1: of the table or now it's the person you don't
Speaker 1: see receiving your tape. And so it's nice to hear
Speaker 1: that people care that much and that people are putting
Speaker 1: in the effort to understand and see the best in
Speaker 1: you when you go in there. So thank you Robert
Speaker 1: for coming on. It was a delight to hear from you.
Speaker 1: And I hope people you know have learned a lot.
Speaker 1: I sure did. Yeah, and thanks for listening to another
Speaker 1: episode and we'll see you next week. And that's what
Speaker 1: you really missed, Bye bye bye, Thanks for listening, and
Speaker 1: follow us on Instagram at and that's what you really
Speaker 1: miss pod. Make sure to write us a review and
Speaker 1: leave us five stars. See you next time.