WEBVTT - Masters Presser Reactions and an Alternative History of Augusta National's Design 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.840 I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When 0:00:02.840 --> 0:00:04.960 I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. 0:00:05.040 --> 0:00:06.320 And when I find my ball in. 0:00:06.280 --> 0:00:09.520 A bride Egg Friday Egg, the dreaded Frida Egg, Frida Egg, 0:00:09.600 --> 0:00:12.160 Frida Egg, bri Egg, Frida Egg, Bride egg Lie. 0:00:11.960 --> 0:00:39.280 I'm about ready to run off of the. 0:00:34.479 --> 0:00:37.360 Welcome to the Frida Egg podcast. I'm Garrett Morrison and 0:00:37.440 --> 0:00:41.760 this is a Midweek Masters episode. Two different segments. Today, 0:00:42.080 --> 0:00:45.199 I'm going to talk to Bob Crosby, the great golf historian, 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:49.200 about the history behind four particular holes at Augusta National. 0:00:49.600 --> 0:00:52.080 We're going to talk about how they've evolved and what 0:00:52.159 --> 0:00:55.560 those evolutions mean. But first I want to give some 0:00:55.600 --> 0:00:59.680 reflections on the pre master's press conferences we've heard over 0:00:59.680 --> 0:01:02.120 the past past few days. People said a lot of 0:01:02.200 --> 0:01:06.520 interesting and potentially significant stuff, so I thought i'd zero 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:10.000 in on a few specific topics. First of all, the 0:01:10.080 --> 0:01:14.160 chairman of Augusta National, Fred Ridley, gave his very anticipated 0:01:14.200 --> 0:01:17.040 press conference on Wednesday, and there were a couple of 0:01:17.120 --> 0:01:20.760 highlights that I wanted to focus on. His first big 0:01:20.760 --> 0:01:24.640 announcement had to do with Augusta Municipal Golf course, known 0:01:24.680 --> 0:01:29.360 locally as the Patch. Augusta National is, according to Chairman Ridley, 0:01:29.840 --> 0:01:34.000 supporting a joint partnership with the Patch, Augusta Technical College 0:01:34.240 --> 0:01:37.440 and the First Tea of Augusta to quote usher in 0:01:37.600 --> 0:01:41.119 a new era for public golf in our city. There 0:01:41.160 --> 0:01:45.160 are three basic objectives here. First, Augusta Tech will start 0:01:45.280 --> 0:01:48.760 educational programs for future workers in the golf industry, and 0:01:48.880 --> 0:01:51.800 those programs will be linked with the Patch and the 0:01:51.800 --> 0:01:55.240 First Tea of Augusta. Second, the partnership will create what 0:01:55.360 --> 0:01:58.760 Ridley called an affordable pathway for anyone who wants to 0:01:58.840 --> 0:02:02.640 learn the game. And third, Augusta National will assist in 0:02:02.760 --> 0:02:06.280 renovating the Patch and the First te facility. This is 0:02:06.320 --> 0:02:09.119 really exciting news, not only for Augusta, but I think 0:02:09.160 --> 0:02:13.040 potentially for the golf world more broadly. Everything that Augusta 0:02:13.120 --> 0:02:16.520 National does ends up serving as a model for other clubs, courses, 0:02:16.520 --> 0:02:19.680 and organizations in the golf world, and that dynamic has 0:02:19.720 --> 0:02:23.400 not always been healthy. Just look at the influence Augusta 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:27.400 Nationals has had on golfer's expectations for maintenance and agronomy. 0:02:27.680 --> 0:02:30.960 That hasn't been a positive influence, I would say on 0:02:31.000 --> 0:02:35.520 the sustainability or the environmental reputation of the game. But 0:02:36.240 --> 0:02:40.120 this partnership with Augusta Municipal, the first he and Augusta Tech, 0:02:40.600 --> 0:02:45.119 could be an enormously beneficial model for other wealthy, powerful 0:02:45.240 --> 0:02:49.200 organizations to follow, and I really hope they do. Either way. 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:51.800 What happens with the patch should be a great story 0:02:51.840 --> 0:02:54.639 to track in the coming years, and we'll definitely keep 0:02:54.720 --> 0:02:57.320 up with it at the Frida Egg, all right. The 0:02:57.360 --> 0:02:59.639 second part of Ridley's press conference that I wanted to 0:02:59.639 --> 0:03:02.960 pick out is his comments on the Model Local rule 0:03:03.440 --> 0:03:08.240 for the golf ball that the USGA and RNA recently proposed. Basically, 0:03:08.280 --> 0:03:11.680 this rule would allow individual tournaments like the Masters to 0:03:11.760 --> 0:03:15.680 implement a reduced flight golf ball. As you are no 0:03:15.800 --> 0:03:19.480 doubt aware, Augusta National has had to make a tremendous 0:03:19.560 --> 0:03:22.400 number of changes over the past twenty five years to 0:03:22.520 --> 0:03:26.080 keep up with distance gains at the elite male competitive level. 0:03:26.639 --> 0:03:28.920 The most recent of those changes was moving back the 0:03:29.000 --> 0:03:33.200 thirteenth t thirty five yards to restore some decision making 0:03:33.320 --> 0:03:37.000 to that famous par five. So I think almost everyone 0:03:37.040 --> 0:03:40.280 expects Ridley and Augusta National to support the Model Local 0:03:40.360 --> 0:03:43.840 rule and adopt the MLR ball when it comes out. 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:47.160 But of course we were waiting to see what exactly 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:50.800 Ridley would say about the matter, because what Augusta National 0:03:50.840 --> 0:03:54.320 does on this issue will be hugely, hugely consequential. And 0:03:54.360 --> 0:03:57.440 here's what he said. As the comment period remains open, 0:03:57.800 --> 0:04:00.880 we will be respectful of the process as the USGA 0:04:01.000 --> 0:04:04.240 and the RNA consider this important issue. We have been 0:04:04.320 --> 0:04:07.360 consistent in our support of the governing bodies and we 0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:12.920 restate our desire to see distance addressed. Very simple, kind 0:04:12.920 --> 0:04:16.040 of vague, but he did get more explicit in answering 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:19.440 a question from the press. He said, our position has 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:23.039 always been that we support the governing bodies. I think 0:04:23.080 --> 0:04:26.279 in a general sense we do support the proposal, but 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:29.000 because it's in the middle of the comment period, it 0:04:29.040 --> 0:04:32.479 could change. The whole purpose of the comment period is 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:34.760 to take the input from the industry, so we will 0:04:34.800 --> 0:04:37.760 look at the final product and make a decision. But 0:04:37.839 --> 0:04:41.400 generally we have always been supportive of the governing bodies. 0:04:41.400 --> 0:04:44.520 I've stated that we believe distance needs to be addressed. 0:04:44.800 --> 0:04:48.120 I think the natural conclusion is, yes, we will be supportive. 0:04:48.720 --> 0:04:51.960 Ridley also made a comment later on about how when 0:04:52.000 --> 0:04:54.400 he first played in the Masters himself. In the late 0:04:54.480 --> 0:04:57.719 nineteen seventies, the course was about sixty nine hundred yards 0:04:58.040 --> 0:05:00.680 and it was still around that distance when Tiger Woods 0:05:00.680 --> 0:05:04.719 won in nineteen ninety seven. Now the course is over 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:08.640 seventy five hundred yards long, and he is aware of 0:05:08.680 --> 0:05:13.640 that problem. Undoubtedly. My takeaway here is that Augusta National 0:05:13.920 --> 0:05:16.520 will do what the USGA and RNA want to do 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:20.279 with regard to the rules of golf. Ridley's most important 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:24.760 talking point was we are and have always been supportive 0:05:24.880 --> 0:05:28.039 of the governing bodies. That I think is the north 0:05:28.080 --> 0:05:31.440 star for them. So if the Model Local Rule comes 0:05:31.440 --> 0:05:34.520 through the comment period, intact, I would assume that the 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:37.720 Masters will implement the new ball. To me, that means 0:05:37.720 --> 0:05:41.240 that the opponents of the rollback, most significantly the major 0:05:41.279 --> 0:05:44.040 equipment companies and the players on the PGA tour who 0:05:44.040 --> 0:05:47.440 get paid by those companies. Those opponents of the MLR 0:05:48.000 --> 0:05:50.520 will try to put their thumbs on the scale now 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:53.560 and in the coming months. They don't want the MLR 0:05:53.640 --> 0:05:56.680 to go through because they know if it does, it 0:05:56.720 --> 0:05:59.920 will be put into effect by the Open, the US Open, 0:06:00.480 --> 0:06:03.359 and the Masters, and if those three tournaments go with 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:06.719 the MLR, the PGA of America and the PGA Tour 0:06:07.360 --> 0:06:09.480 are going to fall in line. I don't think they 0:06:09.520 --> 0:06:11.480 have the clout to stand up to the USGA and 0:06:11.600 --> 0:06:14.279 r and A when those organizations have the backing of 0:06:14.320 --> 0:06:17.520 Augusta National Golf Club. I may be wrong about that, 0:06:18.120 --> 0:06:20.320 but I think that's just how things are in the 0:06:20.360 --> 0:06:24.559 golf world. That's where the real power is. Okay, moving 0:06:24.600 --> 0:06:27.480 on from Ridley's press conference. The other set of comments 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:31.040 from the pre tournament interviews that I wanted to address 0:06:31.520 --> 0:06:35.919 are from players about the newly lengthened thirteenth hole. I 0:06:35.960 --> 0:06:39.280 thought a lot of these were really interesting, especially the 0:06:39.279 --> 0:06:44.440 ones from Dustin Johnson and John Rahm. DJ's comments, which 0:06:44.440 --> 0:06:47.960 he made on Monday, got a fair amount of traction. 0:06:48.160 --> 0:06:51.920 I would say the key quote was this. He said, yeah, 0:06:52.360 --> 0:06:55.680 most likely I'll be laying up all four days. The 0:06:55.720 --> 0:06:59.600 tea was moved back thirty five yards, and DJ says 0:06:59.600 --> 0:07:03.440 that that's going to cause him to default to laying 0:07:03.520 --> 0:07:06.160 up on the hole. This prompted a lot of people 0:07:06.240 --> 0:07:09.200 to complain. It was like, oh man, they took all 0:07:09.200 --> 0:07:11.239 the excitement out of the hole. We want to see birdies, 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:13.600 we want to see eagles, we want to see people 0:07:13.640 --> 0:07:15.960 going for the green, and if if DJ doesn't go 0:07:16.000 --> 0:07:18.720 for the green, then who will. But I think it's 0:07:18.760 --> 0:07:21.640 important to pay attention to the rest of what DJ 0:07:22.040 --> 0:07:25.800 actually said. He said, I don't like to turn the 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:28.920 ball over. It's not really my forte with the driver 0:07:29.240 --> 0:07:33.000 hitting a draw. To explain what he's saying here, he 0:07:33.360 --> 0:07:35.600 prefers to hit a fade off the tee like a 0:07:35.600 --> 0:07:39.040 lot of players today. He hits that big knuckle fade 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:42.080 with a driver. It's a stock shot. For the past 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:45.880 number of years, the thirteenth hole did still demand a 0:07:45.960 --> 0:07:48.920 draw off the tee for the best results, but most 0:07:49.040 --> 0:07:51.840 of the top players were long enough to get around 0:07:51.920 --> 0:07:54.960 the corner on the hole with a threewood. It's a 0:07:55.000 --> 0:07:57.680 lot easier to hit a draw with a modern three 0:07:57.720 --> 0:08:00.680 wood than it is with a driver. They're reasons for 0:08:00.720 --> 0:08:02.640 that that I wouldn't be the best person to answer, 0:08:02.720 --> 0:08:05.960 but basically it has to do a lot, at least 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:09.680 with spin. The modern driver doesn't spin very much, and 0:08:09.760 --> 0:08:14.040 so a fade, which has generally more spin than a draw, 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:16.200 is a little bit easier to keep in the air, 0:08:16.800 --> 0:08:19.400 whereas a draw is always in danger of kind of 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:22.120 diving out of the air and turning into a snap 0:08:22.120 --> 0:08:25.800 hook with the modern spin model that the driver and 0:08:25.840 --> 0:08:29.680 that the ball have for the top players. So the 0:08:29.720 --> 0:08:34.200 thirteenth hole was still sort of counter to that tendency. 0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:37.800 But because players could get around that corner with a 0:08:37.880 --> 0:08:40.520 three wood, that was a go to shot for a 0:08:40.520 --> 0:08:43.559 lot of them, and it was Dustin Johnson's go to shot. 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:46.360 I believe he'd take a three wood and turn it 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:49.280 over a bit. The threewood has more loft, it produces 0:08:49.320 --> 0:08:52.080 a little more spin. A draw with a three wood 0:08:52.360 --> 0:08:55.840 for these players is a little bit more reliable. Well, 0:08:56.040 --> 0:08:59.120 now the thirteenth hole is long enough so that guys 0:08:59.160 --> 0:09:01.920 can't take that show. To get around the corner and 0:09:01.960 --> 0:09:04.120 give yourself a good chance of hitting the green in two, 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:06.839 you need to hit a driver and you need to 0:09:06.960 --> 0:09:10.440 draw it. So guess what, DJ can't hit that shot. 0:09:11.120 --> 0:09:13.400 You should be rewarded for being able to hit a 0:09:13.480 --> 0:09:16.360 variety of shots. You can't just expect to hit one 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:18.560 shape off the tee and be able to go for 0:09:18.640 --> 0:09:21.880 every par five green in two. So the criticism of 0:09:21.920 --> 0:09:24.880 the lengthening of the hole based on DJ's comments today 0:09:25.400 --> 0:09:28.120 is blogoney. What he's really saying is I don't have 0:09:28.160 --> 0:09:30.880 that shot, and this is one of the rare occasions 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:33.080 where not being able to work the ball both ways 0:09:33.120 --> 0:09:35.920 with the driver is going to cost him. And to 0:09:35.920 --> 0:09:38.640 be clear, I'm not criticizing DJ. I don't get the 0:09:38.640 --> 0:09:41.600 impression that he was complaining about this state of affairs. 0:09:42.000 --> 0:09:45.640 I'm more addressing the comments about what DJ said. He 0:09:45.679 --> 0:09:49.280 shouldn't be able to necessarily attack this hole if he 0:09:49.320 --> 0:09:52.439 can't hit that shot with the driver, and he's maybe 0:09:52.480 --> 0:09:56.160 fine with that right in general, that power fade works 0:09:56.520 --> 0:09:59.360 just fine for him, but in this case he can't 0:09:59.360 --> 0:10:01.679 get around that unless he draws it with a driver, 0:10:02.280 --> 0:10:05.719 and since he can't hit that shot, that's coming back 0:10:05.760 --> 0:10:08.920 to bite them in this case. The other comments on 0:10:09.040 --> 0:10:12.160 thirteen that I found really interesting were from John Rahm. 0:10:12.640 --> 0:10:14.840 Now Ram is another guy, by the way, who plays 0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:17.120 a stock fade off the tee and has a hard 0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:19.880 time hitting a draw with the driver. I've seen him 0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:22.400 struggle a fair amount on thirteen in the past, but 0:10:22.760 --> 0:10:25.600 as usual, he had really interesting things to say on 0:10:25.679 --> 0:10:29.440 the subject that weren't necessarily just from his own selfish 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:32.560 point of view. He said this, I'm not opposed to 0:10:32.559 --> 0:10:34.760 the change. I think you're going to see a lot 0:10:34.800 --> 0:10:38.319 more layups. Obviously, if you don't quite hug the left side, 0:10:38.679 --> 0:10:41.480 you're going to have such a long iron in that 0:10:41.640 --> 0:10:44.000 a lot of people will choose to lay up. But 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:46.760 there's still going to be more so a risk reward 0:10:46.840 --> 0:10:49.800 aspect to it, because if you hit the green and 0:10:49.840 --> 0:10:52.360 give yourself an eagle chance, it's going to matter a 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:55.600 lot more maybe than it did in the past. This 0:10:55.800 --> 0:10:58.640 is all music to my ears, but especially the part 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:01.080 about maybe needing to hug the left side of the 0:11:01.080 --> 0:11:04.000 hole in order to have a less terrifying chance of 0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:06.600 going for the green. In two, the left side of 0:11:06.600 --> 0:11:10.040 the thirteenth hole is guarded by the tributary of Raysed Creek, 0:11:10.520 --> 0:11:14.079 and that hazard has basically become irrelevant in the twenty 0:11:14.080 --> 0:11:18.240 first century. In the original design, the whole idea was 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:20.679 that if you challenge the water, you could cut off 0:11:20.720 --> 0:11:23.439 some distance on the hole and give yourself a flattered 0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:25.920 lie and a real chance of hitting the green with 0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:28.400 your second shot. If you bailed out to the right, 0:11:28.720 --> 0:11:30.800 you would have a long way in and you'd have 0:11:30.840 --> 0:11:33.920 a very scary side hill lie that would make your 0:11:33.960 --> 0:11:36.640 ball move right to left, which is not the shape 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:40.760 you want going into this green. But starting with equipment 0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:44.120 advances about twenty five years ago, that strategy started to 0:11:44.160 --> 0:11:47.080 go away. Players could just blast it up the right 0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:49.840 and they could hit it so far that they would 0:11:49.880 --> 0:11:52.840 still have a short second shot into the green. The 0:11:52.880 --> 0:11:57.520 angle no longer mattered. Augusta tried to address that problem 0:11:57.640 --> 0:11:59.680 by planting a bunch of trees on the right side 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:03.520 and making the hole narrower, but the strategic spirit of 0:12:03.559 --> 0:12:07.120 the hole was gone. Now what John Ram is saying 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:10.480 is that the value of hugging that left side near 0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:13.640 the hazard might be back, And as a big time 0:12:13.720 --> 0:12:17.480 golf nerd, that is very exciting to me. Speaking of 0:12:17.520 --> 0:12:20.280 big time golf nerdery, I'm going to talk to Bob 0:12:20.320 --> 0:12:23.640 Crosby about how a few specific holes at Augusta National 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:27.280 have evolved over the years and how those changes represent 0:12:27.400 --> 0:12:31.000 a tricky philosophical balance that the club has had to 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:34.360 strike as the host of the Masters. That's right after 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:49.760 this break. This episode of the Friday Podcast is brought 0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:52.920 to you by Club Champion. Club Champion helps golfers of 0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:56.120 any skill level play better golf through custom fitted and 0:12:56.200 --> 0:13:01.480 custom built equipment. 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All right, Bob Crosby, welcome back to 0:14:51.800 --> 0:14:52.440 the podcast. 0:14:52.880 --> 0:14:54.240 Thanks great to be here. 0:14:55.160 --> 0:14:57.840 So I'm excited to talk to you today because, first 0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:01.000 of all, it's been too long and I always enjoy 0:15:01.040 --> 0:15:04.640 our conversations, and second of all, because we're discussing one 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:07.920 of my favorite topics, which is the architectural history of 0:15:08.000 --> 0:15:12.280 Augusta National. What this golf course was originally and how 0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:16.320 it has evolved are so fascinating to me, and I 0:15:16.360 --> 0:15:19.120 thought a good way to bring that across to listeners 0:15:19.720 --> 0:15:22.680 would be to select a few different holes and dig 0:15:22.720 --> 0:15:25.440 into the history of each of them. So you and 0:15:25.480 --> 0:15:27.640 I talked a little before this. We chose four holes 0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:32.000 to focus on, and those are three, seven, eight, and ten. 0:15:32.800 --> 0:15:36.600 And we chose those holes not because they're famous, but 0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:40.400 because each of them represents something about the evolution of 0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:45.840 the course, about the philosophy of architecture and renovation that 0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:50.320 has defined what the course has become overall. So why 0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:53.360 don't we start with the par four third, which is 0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:56.920 one of my favorite holes on the golf course. Could 0:15:56.920 --> 0:15:59.200 you just describe the hole for me, just to kick 0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:01.360 things off if people aren't super familiar with that. You know, 0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:05.440 it doesn't necessarily always star on the coverage of the Masters. 0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:07.080 So what is this hole? Basically? 0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:13.080 Yeah, the third hole is the least changed hole at 0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:17.960 Augusta National, and I think the reasons why it is 0:16:18.080 --> 0:16:21.080 the least changed are as interesting as the reason why 0:16:21.120 --> 0:16:25.240 other souls have been changed. It is a short par 0:16:25.400 --> 0:16:28.920 forwards everyone knows, even from the members teas. You're hitting 0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:32.960 lofted approach shots into it to a very small but 0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:40.000 crowned green, which offers terrifying chances at a birdie and 0:16:40.480 --> 0:16:43.640 the likelihood for those of us less talented of a bogie. 0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:46.160 One of the things that I think that strikes me 0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:50.520 about why that hole has survived in its current state 0:16:50.560 --> 0:16:54.240 for so long as something that Tom Dope mentioned recently 0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:58.160 about the changes he made to his memorial course in Houston, 0:16:58.480 --> 0:17:01.080 which is that he tried very hard hard to make 0:17:01.160 --> 0:17:03.600 sure that the middle of the greens, that is to say, 0:17:03.680 --> 0:17:07.919 the safe shot areas had some sort of undulation or 0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:12.040 contour in them that made them less safe. And I 0:17:12.080 --> 0:17:14.880 think that's why the third hole works so well. It's 0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:19.639 slightly crowned. You're putting downhill to most pen locations, which 0:17:19.720 --> 0:17:23.600 is scary and lightning fast. Trying to hit at the 0:17:23.680 --> 0:17:27.840 pins is probably not a good idea because of the 0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:31.240 the size of the green. Just a wonderful hole all around, 0:17:32.000 --> 0:17:34.840 and there are good reasons for why it is not 0:17:35.200 --> 0:17:39.320 undergone or at least very few changes. I think Fazio 0:17:39.400 --> 0:17:41.200 we did some of the fairway bunkers and O two, 0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:44.800 but other than that, essentially it's the hole that Mackenzie 0:17:44.880 --> 0:17:46.840 and Jones put on the put on the ground in 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:51.200 nineteen thirty two. Three. The other hole I would like 0:17:51.280 --> 0:17:55.040 to talk about. I think it has a wonderful end 0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:57.760 story to it, and that is the a Toll, one 0:17:57.800 --> 0:18:01.120 of my favorite par fives in the world. Cliff Roberts, 0:18:03.240 --> 0:18:07.000 in the mid nineteen fifties, because of line of sight 0:18:07.119 --> 0:18:11.240 issues with galleries and also gallery flow around the green, 0:18:12.240 --> 0:18:15.520 decided to take out a lot of the Mackenzie features, 0:18:15.600 --> 0:18:20.560 which were essentially several mounds running upside of both sides 0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:23.040 of the green, including a large mound in the front 0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:26.000 of the green front left of the green, and replaced 0:18:26.080 --> 0:18:31.040 those mounds with this awful, awful circular green, sort of 0:18:31.080 --> 0:18:35.880 a saucer shaped green that shocks the offenses every time 0:18:35.880 --> 0:18:38.919 you see even a picture of it. One of the 0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:42.560 great stories of Augusta National and this was not a coincidence. 0:18:42.640 --> 0:18:47.359 Not long after Cliff Roberts passing in nineteen seventy seven six. 0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:50.800 Seven I think seventy seven, yes, seventy seven. 0:18:51.160 --> 0:18:56.600 Byron Nelson and Joe Finger were retained to restore the 0:18:56.640 --> 0:19:01.080 green to the original Mackenzie design. As far as I know, 0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:05.560 that is the first instance of someone restoring a green 0:19:05.680 --> 0:19:10.480 to its historical initial form, at least on any important 0:19:10.520 --> 0:19:14.800 course I know of in America, which was I think 0:19:15.840 --> 0:19:19.000 both bold and courageous on the part of Augusta National, 0:19:19.119 --> 0:19:23.760 and I think it has paid enormous dividends since it 0:19:23.840 --> 0:19:28.720 was restored in the late nineteen seventies. So great news 0:19:28.760 --> 0:19:30.560 there on the eighth. 0:19:30.280 --> 0:19:33.560 Holl, Well, why don't we talk about the third hole 0:19:33.680 --> 0:19:36.879 a little bit more and then get to some details 0:19:36.920 --> 0:19:39.800 on the eighth hole as well. I think there's probably 0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:42.480 more to explore on each hole. You've given us a 0:19:42.520 --> 0:19:46.439 basic shape of the history of each hole. Now, the 0:19:46.480 --> 0:19:50.720 third hole today is a short part four. To some 0:19:51.040 --> 0:19:56.000 of the modern professionals. It's almost drivable, but very few 0:19:56.200 --> 0:19:59.480 choose to attempt to drive it for a variety of reasons. 0:19:59.520 --> 0:20:03.359 But basically, this hole is a two valley hole. You 0:20:03.760 --> 0:20:06.719 hit your drive over a valley, and if you are 0:20:06.800 --> 0:20:08.520 at the top of the hill in the middle of 0:20:08.520 --> 0:20:11.959 the fairway, then you hit your approach over a valley. 0:20:12.440 --> 0:20:14.520 You mentioned that the bunkers have been changed. I actually 0:20:14.600 --> 0:20:18.879 looked this up, and the cluster of bunkers replaced a 0:20:18.960 --> 0:20:21.240 big bunker that used to be in the same location. 0:20:22.040 --> 0:20:25.119 And it was actually Jack Nicholas who suggested that in 0:20:25.160 --> 0:20:30.520 the early eighties, and then Bob Cupp, Nicholas's design partner 0:20:30.640 --> 0:20:34.119 at the time. I believe executed the work and was 0:20:34.160 --> 0:20:37.800 the architect of record for that work. Fasio did make 0:20:37.840 --> 0:20:41.320 some changes, as you mentioned later on in the early 0:20:41.359 --> 0:20:43.960 two thousands, but they were a little more subtle. But 0:20:44.040 --> 0:20:47.400 that's basically all that has changed about the hole. And 0:20:48.000 --> 0:20:50.160 it's fascinating to me to walk around the course today 0:20:50.200 --> 0:20:54.600 and look at the members tees and the championship tees 0:20:55.160 --> 0:20:58.760 and see how different they are on every other hole 0:20:59.200 --> 0:21:03.280 on the golf court except for three where they are 0:21:03.320 --> 0:21:06.320 not different. This hole was three hundred and fifty yards 0:21:06.440 --> 0:21:09.280 in nineteen thirty four and it's three hundred and fifty 0:21:09.320 --> 0:21:13.600 yards today. So what do you think allowed this hole 0:21:13.680 --> 0:21:15.800 to stand the test of time in this way? 0:21:15.880 --> 0:21:16.120 Bob? 0:21:16.960 --> 0:21:19.320 I think it's the green. I mean, I think, as 0:21:19.400 --> 0:21:24.920 I mentioned, the place where you want to play safe, 0:21:25.240 --> 0:21:27.560 i e. Hit a wed shot to the middle of 0:21:27.600 --> 0:21:32.000 the green doesn't leave you. It leaves you essentially downhill 0:21:32.040 --> 0:21:36.200 putts on a lightning fast green. Trying to play for 0:21:36.480 --> 0:21:41.480 pins is a fool's errand they are very hard to reach. 0:21:41.640 --> 0:21:44.920 And if you were off the green, recovery shots under 0:21:44.960 --> 0:21:49.280 some Philly it's fairly steep hills and one bunker are 0:21:49.440 --> 0:21:55.159 enormously difficult. It has withstood the new power Game beautifully 0:21:55.200 --> 0:21:57.919 and in many respects, I think Dope probably feels this 0:21:58.000 --> 0:22:01.040 way is something of a template for or how to 0:22:01.119 --> 0:22:04.800 attack the power game today with shorter holes. 0:22:05.040 --> 0:22:07.720 Yeah, very interesting and you know, and part of it. 0:22:07.880 --> 0:22:11.720 In addition to the green, which is obviously defended the 0:22:11.760 --> 0:22:15.600 hole very well from the beginning, there's also the factor 0:22:15.720 --> 0:22:20.560 of that valley in front of the green where depending 0:22:20.600 --> 0:22:24.159 on pin position, you really don't want to be. So 0:22:24.280 --> 0:22:26.720 if you're trying to drive the green, you have to 0:22:26.760 --> 0:22:28.520 really think about it because you don't want to be 0:22:28.600 --> 0:22:32.400 long of this green, and you also in many cases 0:22:32.840 --> 0:22:35.439 do not want to be in that valley short of 0:22:35.480 --> 0:22:39.399 the green left where your ball will end up if 0:22:39.440 --> 0:22:44.679 it's not exactly precise rolling perfectly onto the green, and 0:22:44.760 --> 0:22:48.160 so it motivates I think some more cautious play where 0:22:48.160 --> 0:22:51.720 you do see players in the Masters laying up to 0:22:52.680 --> 0:22:55.200 the top of that hill in the fair way with 0:22:55.640 --> 0:22:58.200 long iron or something like that and taking that full 0:22:58.280 --> 0:23:00.840 wedge into the green because because they just don't like 0:23:00.960 --> 0:23:04.240 anything that will happen if they miss the green, sort 0:23:04.240 --> 0:23:05.720 of pin high or pass the pin. 0:23:06.320 --> 0:23:09.920 I agree the two choices off the tee for pro 0:23:10.040 --> 0:23:13.000 type players. There's one lay back at the top of 0:23:13.040 --> 0:23:15.320 that ridge, but the second and that people of trying 0:23:15.400 --> 0:23:19.159 this or vombit to the right and then come in 0:23:19.280 --> 0:23:21.960 and avoid the worst of the little valley in front 0:23:21.960 --> 0:23:24.480