1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:25,640 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They called 6 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 1: me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer 7 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 1: Alexis code named Doc Holiday Jackson. Most importantly, you are you. 8 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 1: You are here, and that makes this the stuff they 9 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 1: don't want you to know. It is a Thursday if 10 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:44,200 Speaker 1: you're listening to this on the day it comes out, 11 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:49,559 Speaker 1: which means it is time for our weekly listener male segment. 12 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:52,879 Speaker 1: It is, by the way, definitely not brought to you 13 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 1: by this thing Lucky Jack. I don't know, Matt Noel. 14 00:00:55,840 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 1: Can guys see this Doc? Yeah? Yeah, like coffee. Um, 15 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 1: that's what it says on the label. But I'm starting 16 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:04,760 Speaker 1: to debate it. You know, maybe I've just been drinking 17 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 1: trash coffee for so long. I can't drink the fancy stuff. 18 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:11,959 Speaker 1: But this is not brought to you by Lucky Jack instaid. 19 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:13,880 Speaker 1: If this is brought to you by coffee, it's brought 20 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:16,760 Speaker 1: to you by and the whole crew knows about this, 21 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 1: this oversized graft that I just keep guzzly. You're gonna 22 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:25,759 Speaker 1: everybody's gonna die. Life's of one way trip. Your heart's 23 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 1: just gonna explode like on air. And what a way 24 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:30,960 Speaker 1: to go. I mean, honestly, it'll it'll do a lot 25 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:34,680 Speaker 1: for the show. I'm sure, yes. Uh, But before we 26 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 1: go gentle into that good night, Uh, let's rage against 27 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 1: the diet of the light in the form of letters 28 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 1: and calls from you. We are going to travel just 29 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: outside of Bangkok. We're going to hear about what what 30 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 1: one listening calls the greatest video conspiracy of all time, time, 31 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 1: time time. And before we do any of that, we're 32 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 1: going to, uh, we're gonna get a little red lodge 33 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:08,239 Speaker 1: with it. I would say, we're gonna we're gonna follow 34 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 1: up on something we teased in a previous episode. Uh, 35 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:17,679 Speaker 1: something about masking, something about backwards not anti masking, though 36 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 1: this is a different kind of I don't know about 37 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 1: you guys, but I'm pro masked. Whether or not there's 38 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:25,920 Speaker 1: a pandemic. It's just time for this species to admit 39 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:29,079 Speaker 1: of eighty percent of human beings look better with a 40 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 1: mask on. I would tend to agree. The type of 41 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 1: masking we're talking about today is of the backwards variety 42 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 1: or just back masking, which is a term that was 43 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 1: probably invented by lawmakers, puritanical ones in particular evangelical ones 44 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:48,080 Speaker 1: that you know, back when records and rock and roll 45 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 1: and uh, you know, all of that stuff was very 46 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:54,240 Speaker 1: much associated with wickedness and and the devil, and there 47 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 1: was a lot of witch hunt type vibes, you know, 48 00:02:56,600 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 1: satanic panic type um situations involving looking for hidden messages 49 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 1: in albums. Um. There's a book I'm actually somewhat close 50 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 1: to finishing. I've been listening to it on audiobook for 51 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:11,919 Speaker 1: probably most of the pandemic now because I tend to 52 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: fall asleep and then I wake back up and I 53 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 1: have to backtrack. But it is called A Boy's Life, 54 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:18,680 Speaker 1: and it's by Robert McCammon, who I think you're familiar with. 55 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:20,800 Speaker 1: Ben he wrote a book called Swan Song that I 56 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:24,119 Speaker 1: quite like. It's a very good post apocalyptic um kind 57 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 1: of situation, sort of like The Stand. It came out 58 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 1: around the same time, but it's a lot more gory 59 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 1: and kind of uh bleak in my opinion. But this 60 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: book is about supernatural occurrences. But it's all takes place 61 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 1: um in a sort of a small southern town, and 62 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 1: there is a part in it where there's a preacher 63 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 1: that comes to town who takes of the single of 64 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 1: good Vibrations by the Beach Boys and plays it backwards 65 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 1: in front of this congregation and said, you see there, 66 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 1: you see that sound. You hear that. That's the sound 67 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 1: of these devil worshippers trying to you know, convince children 68 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:00,160 Speaker 1: to come and follow Satan or whatever. And you know, 69 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 1: one of those things where if you listen to it 70 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: enough you maybe could hear it repeatedly, you know, like 71 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 1: when words start to lose their meaning when you say 72 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 1: them over and over and over again, sort of the 73 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 1: reverse of that. UM. But it very much was a thing, 74 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 1: and there were actually trials that you know, we're founded 75 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 1: on the notion that suicides, for example, uh took place 76 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 1: as a result of hearing these subliminal messages. One in 77 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:26,160 Speaker 1: particular involved Rob Halford and the band Judas priest Um. 78 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:28,360 Speaker 1: And we had the email you're talking about, Ben, that 79 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:32,479 Speaker 1: we teased a wonderful email from a listener who has 80 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 1: some experience in this subject, very specifically because he is 81 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:39,679 Speaker 1: a musician. And I used to be in a band 82 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 1: in the eighties. Um that was very well known, a 83 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:44,480 Speaker 1: band from around here that toured with R. E. M. 84 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 1: Made records for a Lecturra and Geffen and had a 85 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 1: fantastic career in the eighties, and and very beloved. There 86 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 1: an Atlanta band called Guadalcanal Diary. Um, and Matt, I 87 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 1: believe you spoke to to Murray on the phone, didn't you. Yes, 88 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 1: I did. Wonderful human being and and lots and lots 89 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:07,040 Speaker 1: of stories to tell about living a life as a 90 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:11,720 Speaker 1: professional musician, very cool stuff. And one of those stories, Um, 91 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 1: is what was in this email. So I'm just gonna 92 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 1: go ahead and get to it, he says, Hello St. Deers, 93 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 1: which I love by the way, Um, I listened to 94 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 1: the show for a long time and love it. Regarding 95 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 1: your five thirty one classic, are there real devil worshippers? 96 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 1: You mentioned that in Judas priests legal case. They stated 97 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 1: that had they done backward masking, it would have been 98 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 1: a message encouraging listeners to buy seven more copies rather 99 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:39,599 Speaker 1: than to praise the devil. Uh. He goes on to say, 100 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:41,480 Speaker 1: in the nineteen eighties, I was the lead singer in 101 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 1: the band Guadalcanal Diary. While in the studio cutting our 102 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 1: third album for Electra Records at a period when backward 103 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 1: masking and satanic panic were current topics, we did something 104 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 1: very similar, but for our own amusement. Our guitarist Jeff 105 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 1: Walls Um, who was also an incredibly excellent band called 106 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 1: The Woggles Atlanta kind of garage rock band, UM who 107 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 1: sadly passed away, I believe in twenty nineteen. UM, but 108 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 1: I got to play several shows with them back in 109 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 1: the day in a band that I was an excellent, 110 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:13,719 Speaker 1: excellent guitarist. Um, Our guitarist Jeff Walls and I recorded 111 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 1: the message Kevin, this is a hit song, Howard this 112 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 1: is a million seller, and inserted it into the mix 113 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 1: in reverse. Kevin and Howard were a and our guys, 114 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 1: and we're responsible for encouraging the record company's promotions department 115 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 1: to push specific songs. We were curious to see if 116 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 1: it would have the desired effect. It did not keep 117 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 1: up the great work Murray hadaway. UM. I thought that 118 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:42,479 Speaker 1: was just wonderful because it really does kind of hit 119 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:46,360 Speaker 1: home the fact that a if anyone was doing this, 120 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 1: it was probably for fun or for their own amusement, 121 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 1: or as like an Easter egg for listeners. I don't 122 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 1: think anyone thinks that any artist was actually thinking that 123 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 1: by putting something like this into an album it was 124 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 1: going to actually they have some kind of like behavior 125 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 1: transforming effect on its listeners. But that was exactly what 126 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:09,360 Speaker 1: Judas Priest was accused of doing in that court case 127 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 1: twenty five years ago. Or actually the article that I'm 128 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 1: reading in Rolling Stone came out in twenty fifteen, so 129 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 1: this is like thirty five years ago or more a 130 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 1: little more. Um. Rob Halford, the singer that Judice Priest 131 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 1: kind of you know, looks back on this um and 132 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 1: the claims that were made about the subliminal messages where 133 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 1: things being included in their backwards like try suicide, do 134 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 1: it and let's be dead, uh and again. You know, 135 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 1: these are things that you could probably convince yourself we're 136 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: in there, just because when you flip words backwards, they 137 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 1: sound crazy and they sound they're they're like weird ghost 138 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:50,680 Speaker 1: ee syllables. I mean, just try it with anything. You 139 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 1: could probably convince yourself that that that it's just about 140 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 1: any phrase that you it's like looking at clouds, right. 141 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 1: It's like you're looking at cloud formations and you say, oh, 142 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 1: that's definitely a anoceras, and somebody else looks like like, no, man, 143 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 1: that's a you know, car, or like a choo shoo 144 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 1: train or something like that. It's all in the eye 145 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: or the ear of the beholder. And when you start 146 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 1: to push a narrative like, oh, this is definitely about 147 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 1: trying to kill yourself, especially if the music has dark 148 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:19,119 Speaker 1: undertones in the first place. But I ever found Judice 149 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 1: Priests to be particularly dark. They were almost more on 150 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 1: the glam tip. I mean, like kind of this like 151 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 1: high pitched, kind of like vocal and a little bit 152 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 1: you know, not like death metal exactly. It was almost 153 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 1: more like kind of glammy, big, you know, rollicking, kind 154 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:37,079 Speaker 1: of like theatrical rock. So I always thought it was 155 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:39,680 Speaker 1: funny that they kind of got saddled with this um. 156 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 1: But they did get off for this charge. Um. It 157 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:46,320 Speaker 1: was also, by the way, in a cover song UH 158 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 1: cover of the band's Spooky Tooths better by You Better 159 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 1: than Me um, which supposedly, according to the courts or 160 00:08:55,480 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 1: the prosecution, influenced two young men uh too and to 161 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 1: take their own lives. It was Raymond belled Nap who 162 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:05,959 Speaker 1: was eighteen at the time and James Vance, who was 163 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 1: twenty that they had spent a lot of time drinking 164 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:12,200 Speaker 1: alcohol and smoking weed and listening to this album Staying 165 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:15,720 Speaker 1: class Um, after which time they took a shotgun and 166 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:18,839 Speaker 1: shot themselves. And I would highly recommend anyone that's interested 167 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 1: in this case to check out this article and Rolling 168 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 1: Stone from two fifteen UM called Judas Priest Subliminal Message Trial. 169 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 1: Rob Halford looks back by Corey grow and it's all 170 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:33,440 Speaker 1: you know from the perspective of Halford himself, and he 171 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 1: literally says during the case, I really wanted to go 172 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:39,319 Speaker 1: over to the mother of the boy who killed himself 173 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 1: and give her a hug and say I'm sorry for 174 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 1: the loss of your kid. Um, let's go have a 175 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:50,840 Speaker 1: coffee and talk. Thisis over? Yeah? Really? Is it just 176 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 1: too much experiments or something? And no, that's not it 177 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 1: doesn't work for costume did I'm listening but just just 178 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:00,080 Speaker 1: cheap enough to feel like I have to fit is 179 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 1: drinking it? I totally get it. And um, I just 180 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 1: think you know that level of empathy, uh speaks volumes. 181 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:10,679 Speaker 1: I think to the fact that This clearly was not 182 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 1: any kind of intentional Um, you know, there was no 183 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 1: intent behind this other than to just try something clever, 184 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 1: should be creative. And I think it's uh maybe the 185 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 1: jury is still out on whether they actually inserted those 186 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 1: things or if it was just sort of the interpretation 187 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 1: of some of these right wing Christian groups. Ben did, 188 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 1: did you have any insight on them? Uh? Yeah, I 189 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:34,679 Speaker 1: mean you're not far off with the clouds, it's sort 190 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:38,560 Speaker 1: of an audio roor shack people. People are hearing what 191 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:40,320 Speaker 1: they want to hear it. And you know, we know 192 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 1: because we've dove into some explorations this kind of thing, 193 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 1: and we have to remember that, you know, uh, we 194 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:54,079 Speaker 1: have the benefit of better forensic audio equipment now in 195 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 1: terms of software primarily honestly, and at the time people 196 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 1: didn't have that. So if they thought, for some maybe 197 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 1: sincere reason, that this was a tool of Satan worshiping 198 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 1: rock stars, then of course they would hear what they 199 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 1: were primed to hear. There's a confirmation bias. But I 200 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:13,680 Speaker 1: would also advance you know, this is occurring during the 201 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:16,960 Speaker 1: era of Satanic Panic. There were a lot of people, 202 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 1: especially politicians, who personally could not care less. They just 203 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 1: wanted to get some votes, wanted to rally uh their 204 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 1: political base. I mean, it's it's obvious first off that 205 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:33,959 Speaker 1: if somebody was trying to do something like this, sincerely, 206 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:39,079 Speaker 1: you know, if like a metal band or no metal 207 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 1: band wouldn't work. I'm thinking a different like if it 208 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:45,680 Speaker 1: turned out that band, the Cardigans, they were a metal 209 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 1: band once upon a time. If it turned out the 210 00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 1: Cardigans were secretly devil worshippers and they wanted to put 211 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 1: in back masking instructions to make people do horrible satanic 212 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:00,079 Speaker 1: things or whatever that however you wanted to find that, 213 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 1: then the big question is whether or not it would work, 214 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: like would induce those behaviors and people, And the answer 215 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 1: honestly is no, of course. I think it's clear. It 216 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:13,960 Speaker 1: reminds me a lot of these congressional hearings that took 217 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 1: place in around violent video games. And there's a fabulous 218 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 1: episode of this Netflix limited series High Score that's about 219 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 1: kind of the history of video games from its inception 220 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:26,439 Speaker 1: or from their inception to close to modern day. I 221 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:28,080 Speaker 1: didn't go quite as far as I would have liked. 222 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 1: I would have liked to see like Minecraft in some 223 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:33,840 Speaker 1: of the new kind of retro game trends sort of discussed, 224 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 1: but it does talk about this time where it was 225 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 1: like Mortal Kombat. We all remember walking into the arcade 226 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 1: and seeing you know, Sub zero pulling out someone's head 227 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:45,320 Speaker 1: with the spinal cord attached. But they're the most that 228 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:47,480 Speaker 1: wasn't even the biggest. The game that made the biggest 229 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 1: splash and those hearings it was this game called Night 230 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:52,960 Speaker 1: Trap that was like in the era of full motion 231 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 1: video where it was there really dumb. It's a really 232 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:58,080 Speaker 1: dumb game and very bad. It's like, you know, trying 233 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:00,719 Speaker 1: to choose your own adventure, kind of like Wagonslayer, but 234 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 1: like with actual uh actors and and and um. It's 235 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:07,560 Speaker 1: sort of like these scantily clad sort of co eds 236 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 1: and like a dorm room type situation and there are 237 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 1: these like murderers that are coming in. But like they 238 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:15,320 Speaker 1: just talk about the whole the impetus behind it and 239 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 1: how they ended up where they ended up. They couldn't 240 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:19,400 Speaker 1: just have like straight up slashers because they knew that 241 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 1: would like be way too controversial, so they ended up 242 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 1: making them these like weird vampires that had these like 243 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 1: kind of grabber claw gun things. But they weren't actually guns. 244 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 1: There was this whole thing about what they could and 245 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:35,679 Speaker 1: couldn't be, and it was like they were bloodsucking devices. Essentially, 246 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 1: they would like wrap around the victim's necks and suck 247 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 1: their blood or whatever. But it was very clear from 248 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 1: those hearings that the uh, the lawmakers that were questioning it, 249 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 1: and they were saying this was, you know, absolutely corrupting 250 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 1: the youth had never actually played the game, or I mean, 251 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:53,880 Speaker 1: of course they had played the game, but hadn't even 252 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 1: really seen the context of the scene that they played, 253 00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:00,440 Speaker 1: which was something involving mat You I could see nodding, 254 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:02,320 Speaker 1: like you remember remember what the scene was. It was 255 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:06,040 Speaker 1: something like, out of context, a scene where a woman 256 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 1: gets grabbed through glass or something, and it makes it 257 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 1: look like, you know, like like an eighties horror movie, 258 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:15,319 Speaker 1: but there's no bloodshed and there's certainly no like sexual 259 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:17,320 Speaker 1: violence or anything like that. But yet they used this 260 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 1: out of context to show that this was depraved and 261 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:23,440 Speaker 1: and meant to corrupt the youth, you know, on purpose. So, 262 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 1: first of all, to your point that the people making 263 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 1: these this decision didn't play Night Trap, that's because not 264 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 1: many people had to say a c d I'm just 265 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 1: getting so many people did, but not that many, and 266 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 1: not that many played Night Trap. I remember playing it 267 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 1: a couple of times in a friend's house, and I 268 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 1: never got to that scene. And I honestly haven't looked 269 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 1: into it, but I do. I can tell you that 270 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 1: it was fairly tame, no matter what it was. Well, 271 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 1: let's also keep in mind that I think you can agree, 272 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 1: I hope you can agree with me here murray about 273 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 1: how silly and heartbreaking this is the utter hypocrisy of politicians, 274 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 1: quote unquote concerned citizens at the time to say, we 275 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 1: have to watch out for video games. Oh there's a 276 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 1: secret message in a very radio friendly song that's gonna 277 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 1: make you go crazy. But let's not talk about how 278 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 1: many people we are killing abroad, right, Let's let's not 279 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 1: talk about how many parts of the US population are 280 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 1: being violently repressed. This is very much pay no attention 281 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 1: to the crimes behind the curtain kind of thing. And 282 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 1: to me, you know, to me, backmasking is cool. I 283 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 1: love stuff like that. I love subversion of form. You know, 284 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 1: like you're reading a novel, the page numbers get all screwy. 285 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 1: That's amazing. And this is kind of another thing, you know, 286 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 1: but that stuff is, that stuff is brilliant and fun 287 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:54,680 Speaker 1: and creative, and I applaud it, but I find it, 288 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 1: you know, I I find these kind of moral panics cynical, 289 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 1: disgusting and ultimately offensive. But you know that's my soapbox. Sorry, 290 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 1: yield boy time. Also that also the game you guys 291 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 1: are mentioning, I remembered I didn't think it was that crazy. 292 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 1: It wasn't. That's the whole point. Like, and if you 293 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 1: watch the documentary it shows you more of the context 294 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:17,520 Speaker 1: and it's actually laughably bad and like not scary or 295 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 1: particularly violent at all. And they went to such great 296 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 1: lengths to make it as an offensive and tame as possible. 297 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 1: And yet these you know, kind of puritanical lawmakers still 298 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 1: glommed onto one particular scene taking out of context. Um, 299 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 1: there's a really good quote in the article I'm talking 300 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:35,960 Speaker 1: about with Rob Halford kind of reflecting back on the case, 301 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 1: and in this article they ultimately and what you know, 302 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 1: the case kind of rested on was was their intent? Uh, 303 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 1: And then the defense of the band was more looking 304 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 1: into the state of mind of these young men who 305 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 1: are obviously massive judice priest fans, and the writer makes 306 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 1: the point that that makes it all the more heartbreaking 307 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 1: that this is how you know, or this was a 308 00:16:57,800 --> 00:16:59,760 Speaker 1: circumstance under which which they lost their lives and the 309 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 1: kind a legacy they left behind to kind of like 310 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:05,439 Speaker 1: run their favorite band up the flagpole and kind of 311 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 1: pillaring them in this very public way. Um, but it 312 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:12,800 Speaker 1: all came down to these young men had substance abuse 313 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:17,120 Speaker 1: problems and depression issues, and that they likely would have 314 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 1: done this either way without any intervention from some sort 315 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:23,399 Speaker 1: of d a sex machina in the form of like 316 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:26,399 Speaker 1: you know, hidden messages on a Juice Priest song, which, again, 317 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:29,560 Speaker 1: like you said, Ben, is very tame and radio friendly. Well, 318 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 1: this is the last last thing I'll say here on this, 319 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:35,400 Speaker 1: and I appreciate that you're bringing up this point. Think 320 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:40,160 Speaker 1: of it this way. Somebody, um, somebody eats a tuna melt, 321 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 1: and they've eaten tuna melts in the past, maybe not 322 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 1: every day, but you know, they like a melt. And 323 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 1: then one day this person was eating a tuna melt, uh, 324 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 1: goes and commit some horrific crime or injures themselves or 325 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 1: someone else. This is sort of like saying, now we 326 00:17:56,600 --> 00:18:00,080 Speaker 1: need to get rid of tuna melts. It's it's it's 327 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:05,240 Speaker 1: like it's missed tributing the cause and and um. You know, 328 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:09,120 Speaker 1: in this article, Halford really goes quite in depth into 329 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:11,840 Speaker 1: his understanding of the history of back masking, and you know, 330 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:14,440 Speaker 1: traces it back to where he first heard about it, 331 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:17,120 Speaker 1: which was in like led Zeppelin songs for example. But 332 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 1: what is that the one where it's like Stairway to 333 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:23,199 Speaker 1: Heaven it says like my Sweet Satan, there was a 334 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:26,119 Speaker 1: little tool shed where he made us suffer old my 335 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:28,320 Speaker 1: sweet Satan. It does kind of sound like that. I've 336 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 1: definitely heard that that flipped. Uh. And but it's like 337 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:33,880 Speaker 1: one of those things where it's like, did Pink Floyd 338 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:37,119 Speaker 1: make the Dark Side of the Moon with the intention 339 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 1: of sinking it up to the Wizard of Oz? It works, 340 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:42,920 Speaker 1: you can do it. It's really cool. But was their 341 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:46,920 Speaker 1: intent I don't know. Maybe with the Zeppelin Sweet Satan 342 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:49,960 Speaker 1: line there is, but he'd never hear that. That's a 343 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 1: different kind of back masking, right. That's you're hearing it 344 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:54,959 Speaker 1: forward and then you play it backwards, So you have 345 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:57,240 Speaker 1: to choose to play the record backwards to even hear 346 00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:00,040 Speaker 1: the message. Whereas I think with the Halford case of 347 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:05,040 Speaker 1: the priest case, it was in the record already backwards. Murray, 348 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 1: please let us know if I'm getting that wrong. Um. 349 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 1: But he makes a really great point Halford in this 350 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 1: in this interview where he says, either way, My interpretation 351 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:17,439 Speaker 1: of subliminal messages as we presented it is how in 352 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:19,639 Speaker 1: the old days, you'd go to a movie and someone 353 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 1: would insert a frame of film that suggested you buy popcorn. 354 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:25,960 Speaker 1: But even then it was real and it was physical 355 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 1: because you could take that frame and go, look there 356 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:31,840 Speaker 1: it is. You can't do that with words because you 357 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 1: have to actually hear them. And then if you can 358 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:37,200 Speaker 1: hear them, then how can they be subliminal or subconscious 359 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:39,200 Speaker 1: like in a dream. I think that's a great point, 360 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:44,919 Speaker 1: that the basic concept that backwards words somehow being turned 361 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 1: in the listener's mind into front words words, and then 362 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:51,480 Speaker 1: those concepts become attached to, you know, an action that 363 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:53,920 Speaker 1: has taken a pretty laughable So yeah, and do you 364 00:19:53,960 --> 00:20:02,639 Speaker 1: agree that's that's insane? Um? Yeah, bastward back bastward exactly. Uh. 365 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 1: It may. Whenever I hear think about this, I always 366 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 1: think of the what is he called the dream the 367 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 1: dream Man from the Twin Peaks series who speaks backwards. 368 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:14,959 Speaker 1: You know, that guy had to learn how to do that, 369 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:17,680 Speaker 1: and it's really hard and it really takes you a 370 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:20,400 Speaker 1: lot of effort to even hear what he's trying to say. 371 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 1: You really need the subtitles A lot of times. I 372 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:25,400 Speaker 1: think it's called just the Man from from the Dream Um. 373 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:27,720 Speaker 1: But I by the way it was, I was confusing 374 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:31,240 Speaker 1: some things. So I believe Murray was saying they inserted 375 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 1: backwards syllables into their record, like in a like behind 376 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:39,119 Speaker 1: the actual mix. And I believe in the Judas Priest 377 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 1: case they're saying that these phrases were hidden in forwards, 378 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 1: you know, phrases that you had to play backwards to 379 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:48,399 Speaker 1: actually hear. I think, so let me know if I 380 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:51,280 Speaker 1: got that right, Murray. Um. But yeah, it's really great points, 381 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:55,280 Speaker 1: really amazing story. Um. Clearly a test case that didn't 382 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 1: didn't turn out. I hope you sold at least a 383 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 1: decent amount of records and singles. But maybe it wasn't 384 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:03,640 Speaker 1: the magic bullet that you were hoping it would be. 385 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 1: But um, I love that the fact that he gave 386 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 1: us a go um. But yeah, looking forward to hopefully 387 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 1: one day meeting in person. And um, thanks again for 388 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 1: the email, and I'll take a quick break and then 389 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 1: be back with more listener mail. Welcome back to the show. 390 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:25,199 Speaker 1: And now we are turning to our voicemail system to 391 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:29,119 Speaker 1: get the next message. It comes from an anonymous individual. 392 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:32,359 Speaker 1: This is what they had to say. Hey, fellows, here's 393 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:35,200 Speaker 1: an idea for a show. I don't know if you're 394 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:40,399 Speaker 1: familiar with Thomas Merton, but there's some speculation that the 395 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:43,720 Speaker 1: c I am may have assassinated um, which is kind 396 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:47,359 Speaker 1: of crazy, but given know and he was a pacifist, 397 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 1: he died in so conceivably I could see some nut 398 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 1: job at the c I a thing like you have 399 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:59,480 Speaker 1: to stop this guy. He's gonna heard our chances in Vietnam. 400 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:06,399 Speaker 1: But anyway, I just thought, throw that outculator, the c 401 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 1: I a assassination, Yeah, pacifists or somebody who did not 402 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:17,399 Speaker 1: who was speaking publicly and had some clout about something 403 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 1: the government didn't want them to be speaking about. Okay, 404 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 1: CIA is in Central Intelligence Agency, not Cheese Inventors Association, 405 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:33,119 Speaker 1: correct and also yeah, also not the Catholic Institution of 406 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:39,919 Speaker 1: Atrocities anointment. Yeah. Um, it's a really interesting thing that 407 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:43,440 Speaker 1: you're posing here. Whoever you are, we will we will 408 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:56,240 Speaker 1: call you monk tastic. No, we will call you, ok, yeah, sure, 409 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 1: we'll call you snake bite. I like it. Let's snake 410 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,960 Speaker 1: bite fly. Let's let's let snake bite fly flying, snake 411 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:07,840 Speaker 1: bite terrifying. Um. So, yes, I personally did not know 412 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,879 Speaker 1: much about Thomas Merton. The name rings at rang a 413 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:14,680 Speaker 1: bell as soon as you said it. And seeing pictures 414 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:17,199 Speaker 1: of this person. If you look online and look at 415 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 1: a picture of Thomas Murton, he may look familiar to you. 416 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 1: Perhaps many of you listening out there who were born 417 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:27,879 Speaker 1: maybe in the fifties, would definitely recognize Thomas Murton. He 418 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:32,400 Speaker 1: was a name. He was a thinker and a pacifist 419 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 1: and somebody who others listened to. And that has a 420 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:38,680 Speaker 1: lot to do with why he was in Bangkok, Thailand 421 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 1: when he met his demise, because he was he was 422 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 1: speaking at a public engagement there, or I guess it was. 423 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:47,879 Speaker 1: I don't know if it was public or private, but 424 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:50,040 Speaker 1: he was he was at a speaking engagement where he 425 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:53,560 Speaker 1: was a speaker. So what I want to do really quickly, 426 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:57,639 Speaker 1: just to kind of ground us in Thomas Murton, is 427 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:02,160 Speaker 1: to look at some reporting of the Irish Times from 428 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 1: it looks like fifteen and then maybe actually a bit 429 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:12,359 Speaker 1: from Britannica, because hey, you can still use Encyclopedia Britannica. 430 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:18,359 Speaker 1: It's just online now it's not quite as extensive as 431 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:20,600 Speaker 1: it once was. Well, and it's free, right, you don't 432 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 1: have to like buy the whole set from like a 433 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 1: traveling salesman, or at least we always used to be 434 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 1: like an hundred number. But remember the days of traveling 435 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 1: salesman selling a cyclopedias. Yes, definitely I miss no, I don't. 436 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:40,120 Speaker 1: I don't miss the traveling salesman. No, sure, um, so yeah, 437 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:42,240 Speaker 1: let's go let's go to Britannica first, then we'll hop 438 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:46,639 Speaker 1: over to the Irish Times. So Britannica says that this person, 439 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 1: Thomas Merton, also known as Father M Lewis, was born 440 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:54,879 Speaker 1: in nineteen fifteen January thirty one, to be exact, and 441 00:24:55,160 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 1: he was a poet, writer, and most totably, he was 442 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:04,119 Speaker 1: a monk. He was a Trappist monk, which is a 443 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,120 Speaker 1: really cool thing. You may be familiar with the term 444 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,800 Speaker 1: Trappist from some of the beer that you enjoy if 445 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 1: you are of drinking age, but ah, yes, excellent, excellent 446 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:20,320 Speaker 1: name there. Yes, and then there are many beers in 447 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 1: the Trappist style, some of which are still produced in 448 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 1: the Trappist style at um at monasteries, which is a 449 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,640 Speaker 1: very cool thing, very cool tradition. And it's a weird 450 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,240 Speaker 1: thing that you I think, me growing up in the church, 451 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:36,240 Speaker 1: I never would have thought monks would in any way 452 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 1: be associated with alcohol, at least not in the creation 453 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:42,720 Speaker 1: and selling of alcohol. But it's a it's an old, 454 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 1: old thing that's been going on for a long time. 455 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,160 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't want to read directly from Britannica here, 456 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:50,359 Speaker 1: but honestly I don't know much about Thomas Marton, so 457 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 1: we're kind of learning this together as we go. Um. 458 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 1: He did a lot of moving. He had an interesting life. 459 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:01,640 Speaker 1: American born mother, New Zealand born father. Um. There they 460 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,879 Speaker 1: were artists. They were living in France. He was baptized 461 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 1: in the Church of England, you know, he was baptized 462 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:09,920 Speaker 1: in the Church of England. And then his life with 463 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:14,120 Speaker 1: some kind of church, some kind of religious movement continued 464 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 1: until his death in nineteen sixty And you can, again, 465 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:20,679 Speaker 1: you can learn a ton about him, and maybe if 466 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 1: we do a bigger episode on this. If it merrits it, 467 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 1: we'll go into all of that in his background. Um, 468 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:28,199 Speaker 1: what you do need to know is that he was 469 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 1: in Thailand and the circumstances surrounding his death are a 470 00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:36,920 Speaker 1: little weird. Even now, if you're attempting to find out 471 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,920 Speaker 1: exactly what happened to him, you may have some trouble 472 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:46,119 Speaker 1: because the exact details are somewhat unknown. A lot of 473 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:49,399 Speaker 1: it comes from the report of the two people that 474 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 1: came upon his body when when they found him, and 475 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:58,160 Speaker 1: how those stories have kind of changed over time, how 476 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:02,240 Speaker 1: that game of telephone has has altered some of the 477 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,680 Speaker 1: understanding there, as well as the official information coming from 478 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:10,159 Speaker 1: medical professionals who and an investigators who dealt with his 479 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:15,360 Speaker 1: body and with the investigation into his death. Officially, he 480 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,760 Speaker 1: died by heart attack. At least that's what it was. 481 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 1: That's what was recorded. It's also maybe electric shock, right, 482 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,600 Speaker 1: It could be electric shock. It could be only electric shock. 483 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,679 Speaker 1: It could be electric shock that caused a heart attack, 484 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,800 Speaker 1: or it could be something completely different. There are rumors 485 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:36,439 Speaker 1: all over the internet that you could find that he 486 00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 1: had a head wound when he was found. Uh, that 487 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:43,399 Speaker 1: is I would say that's a rumor. Still, I I 488 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:47,400 Speaker 1: haven't been able to fully conclude that that is actually 489 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:53,720 Speaker 1: what happened. Shades of William McCrae there, right right. Uh 490 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,679 Speaker 1: So let's let's talk about where he was found. I 491 00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,400 Speaker 1: want to go to the Irish Times. Now. There's an 492 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 1: article you can find titled the Turbulent Monk Did the 493 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 1: c I A kill vocal war critic Thomas Merton. He 494 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:12,240 Speaker 1: was published December third, two thousand eighteen, and if you 495 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:16,200 Speaker 1: go through here, they by the way, call Thomas Merton 496 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:20,440 Speaker 1: quote the most vocal critic of war, which is really interesting. 497 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,880 Speaker 1: So again I feel terrible coming into this without doing 498 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:27,359 Speaker 1: more research, but I I know for certain and everything 499 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:31,679 Speaker 1: I'm reading he was very very anti war and was 500 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:35,480 Speaker 1: not quite about it. And he was influential, so we 501 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:39,520 Speaker 1: can imagine, as you stated, listener, that could be a 502 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 1: reason why someone would want to stop him from continuing 503 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 1: to talk. In this article from the Irish Times, they 504 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:48,680 Speaker 1: state that he was found dead in his room near Bangkok, 505 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,800 Speaker 1: where he had been the main speaker at an international 506 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:56,840 Speaker 1: monastic conference. They state that the cause of death given 507 00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:00,400 Speaker 1: by the Taye police was heart attack and there was 508 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:06,360 Speaker 1: no autopsy performed on him because I I can't say, 509 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 1: because likely due to the fact that there was a 510 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 1: conclusion made early on in the investigation that there was 511 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 1: no foul play, even though when he was found he 512 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:20,280 Speaker 1: was wearing shorts and he was lying on a on 513 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:23,160 Speaker 1: his back, I believe, and on top of him was 514 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 1: a fan, like a stand stand up fan. I don't 515 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 1: know what you call that, just a fan on a 516 00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:31,240 Speaker 1: stand It feels like I'm trying to rhyme um. But 517 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,200 Speaker 1: an electric fan that had toppled over onto his chest 518 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 1: when he was found. Now, whether that was due to 519 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 1: a struggle, I don't know. The investigators didn't really say 520 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:44,440 Speaker 1: whether that was due to an accident. It just fell 521 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,560 Speaker 1: on top of him, And whether or not that fan 522 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:52,480 Speaker 1: actually electrocuted him or not is unknown. However, the two 523 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:54,680 Speaker 1: people that came and found him when they initially saw 524 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:56,960 Speaker 1: his body lying there, when they saw him lying there, 525 00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 1: unknowing if he was alive or dead, attempted to pick 526 00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 1: up the fan, and according to their stories, there was 527 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:06,640 Speaker 1: a smaller electric shock that went in that went through 528 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:10,080 Speaker 1: their hand when they attempted to pick up the fan. Darrell, 529 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,560 Speaker 1: you know who who knows if you if you continue 530 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 1: reading this Irish Times article, they state this person named 531 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:22,560 Speaker 1: Jim Douglas, who was an associate of Merton, publicly raised 532 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:27,160 Speaker 1: this concept that perhaps there was a cover up, that 533 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 1: that Thomas Merton was in fact murdered by somebody, but 534 00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 1: again proving who it was, how why it seems to 535 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 1: be impossible at this time. There's a person named Matthew 536 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 1: Fox who's a theologian. He's the guy that stated that 537 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:45,160 Speaker 1: the CIA may have been involved because there were active 538 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:49,360 Speaker 1: agents in Thailand. According to Matthew Fox and Uh, he 539 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:52,560 Speaker 1: says that one of these agents at some point made 540 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:56,360 Speaker 1: contact with him and told him this story and where 541 00:30:56,360 --> 00:31:00,480 Speaker 1: they infiltrated this this uh the living quarters of Thomas murder, 542 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:02,719 Speaker 1: the place where he was staying in Bangkok, Thailand and 543 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:06,560 Speaker 1: killed him. Again, that's a story from somebody else that 544 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:11,120 Speaker 1: ends up getting printed somewhere without full verification. This feels 545 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,800 Speaker 1: like a yeah, this does feel like a a full episode, 546 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:19,440 Speaker 1: Matt because I've been able to find I have been 547 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:23,400 Speaker 1: able to find documents from the Thai government regarding this. Uh. 548 00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 1: And then a really great article written by David Martin 549 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 1: and Hugh Turley called What We Know About Thomas Murton's 550 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:37,560 Speaker 1: death is available on the Martyrdom of Thomas Murton dot com. Um. Yeah, 551 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:42,040 Speaker 1: there's a lot to the story, but right now, without 552 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:46,320 Speaker 1: digging in deeper, which of course we will do, right now, 553 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:50,160 Speaker 1: it's tough to say. It's tough to connect a lot 554 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:53,520 Speaker 1: of dots to the c I A right, unless we 555 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:58,080 Speaker 1: get more information. We know that the CIA is pro war. Uh, 556 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:02,880 Speaker 1: the CIA is pro assassination, by which I mean they're 557 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:06,680 Speaker 1: not opposed to either of those tactics in pursuit of 558 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,480 Speaker 1: a goal. And we know that this guy was very 559 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,640 Speaker 1: much a pacivist, very much anti war. But there are 560 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:15,600 Speaker 1: a lot of pacifists. There are quite a few anti 561 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:20,200 Speaker 1: war activists. And while many of them get monitored by 562 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:23,560 Speaker 1: the CIA or the FBI or what whatever, you know, 563 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:28,160 Speaker 1: spoonful of alphabet soup you like, Uh, they don't usually 564 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,240 Speaker 1: get killed. They don't always get killed. They have to 565 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:33,880 Speaker 1: be pretty prominent. So my first question is are there 566 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:38,280 Speaker 1: more dots that we can connect? And secondly, was there 567 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:42,000 Speaker 1: something that he was going to do? And is did 568 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:44,520 Speaker 1: his death prevent that from coming to pass? Because I 569 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 1: believe he mentioned this he was only fifty three. Yeah, 570 00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:49,600 Speaker 1: I did not mention that he was. He was only 571 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:54,120 Speaker 1: fifty three when he passed away, and his posthumous bibliography 572 00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:58,000 Speaker 1: is impressive. The amount of works that have come out 573 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:01,800 Speaker 1: since his death, it's pretty incredible. You can find a 574 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:04,800 Speaker 1: full list of those at the Thomas Merton's Center at 575 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:09,040 Speaker 1: Bellarmine University b E L L A R M I 576 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:12,400 Speaker 1: n E University. It goes through and it shows a 577 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:17,440 Speaker 1: chronology of his publications starting in Oh, it just it 578 00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:21,640 Speaker 1: gives his life timeline basically with the publications that he made, 579 00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:24,000 Speaker 1: and then if you go further down, it has this 580 00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:28,480 Speaker 1: posthumous publication starting in nineteen nine running all the way 581 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 1: to so these would have been like works that his 582 00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:35,120 Speaker 1: trust gathered up and published on his behath after he 583 00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:38,400 Speaker 1: passed or this family. He was a prolific writer of 584 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,800 Speaker 1: everything from you know, personal notes to other people, to 585 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:46,080 Speaker 1: you know personal writing like journaling kind of things, to 586 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:51,720 Speaker 1: just meditations, meditations and things a minister would do, you 587 00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:54,600 Speaker 1: know that a priest would do, essentially writing writing out 588 00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:57,040 Speaker 1: thoughts in that way to be presented. And again a 589 00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:01,320 Speaker 1: public speaker, So who knows what they actually would have 590 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:06,040 Speaker 1: prevented if they did prevent anything, if someone did in 591 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:09,480 Speaker 1: fact kill him, a lot of ifs there, of course, 592 00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:12,400 Speaker 1: but hey, thank you so much, whoever you are that 593 00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:15,560 Speaker 1: that sent that voicemail, and we do appreciate it, and 594 00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:17,680 Speaker 1: I can't wait to look more into this. Thomas Martin 595 00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:21,640 Speaker 1: seems like a very fascinating person. Anyone who takes up 596 00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:26,320 Speaker 1: the life of a monk is interesting to me because 597 00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:29,440 Speaker 1: I feel like that doesn't happen often in a vacuum. 598 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:34,480 Speaker 1: Interesting perhaps tragic things happen, you know, in everyone's lives, right, 599 00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,279 Speaker 1: but when you decide to put the robes on and 600 00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:40,400 Speaker 1: live that life, there's there's got to be something worth 601 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:42,839 Speaker 1: worth looking into there to at least tell a story about. 602 00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:45,520 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm just I'm just laughing because you said 603 00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:48,160 Speaker 1: live that life. I had a picture of like, uh, 604 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:52,440 Speaker 1: you know, Franciscan or Trappis Bug saying yeah, I'm about 605 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,520 Speaker 1: that life. So but or like having like a chess 606 00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:59,080 Speaker 1: tattoo that says like priest life, you know, but yeah, 607 00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:02,319 Speaker 1: it's there. There is a place I'd like to shout out. 608 00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:05,839 Speaker 1: I have a great interest in people who dedicate their 609 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:09,879 Speaker 1: lives to something spiritual on that level, to that level 610 00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:16,040 Speaker 1: of extremity. So there is a fantastic monastery not too 611 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:19,440 Speaker 1: far from Atlanta called Our Lady and the Holy Spirit. 612 00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:22,960 Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time there, and those folks 613 00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:26,719 Speaker 1: are really chill like there other than other than like, 614 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:29,640 Speaker 1: their first answer for most things being that you should 615 00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:33,839 Speaker 1: convert to Catholicism. They're super chill guys. I don't know. 616 00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:36,279 Speaker 1: I mean, they wouldn't speak with us for a documentary 617 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:40,719 Speaker 1: back in the days, which one the Green Burial one? No, 618 00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:43,640 Speaker 1: something something A couple of my friends and I were 619 00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:45,960 Speaker 1: working on in college. But we really wanted to talk 620 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:47,840 Speaker 1: to somebody, but they wouldn't do it. We'll try and 621 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,239 Speaker 1: get Yeah, I've got to. I've got to connect if 622 00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:52,560 Speaker 1: you want to get your college. If they wanted, they 623 00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:54,239 Speaker 1: wanted to sell me a lot of stuff in the 624 00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:57,000 Speaker 1: gift shop. But anyway, No, I'm not no shade, no shade. 625 00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:59,440 Speaker 1: It's just a well, I didn't have as great an 626 00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:03,000 Speaker 1: experience there. Oh yeah, I hear you. I gotta say that. 627 00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:07,719 Speaker 1: Like of all the publications that are mentioned in this story, UM, 628 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:11,480 Speaker 1: I am fascinated by this book. You mentioned The Martyrdom 629 00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:15,040 Speaker 1: of Thomas Merton Investigation. UM. Really interested to see how 630 00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:17,840 Speaker 1: they kind of dissect this narrative, you know, around the 631 00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:22,080 Speaker 1: accident because there are a lot of very fishy details 632 00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:25,120 Speaker 1: in this story. Yeah, and you can go to places 633 00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:27,960 Speaker 1: like Edward curtain dot com check out reviews of that. 634 00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:30,799 Speaker 1: You can also actually, this one was tailored for us, 635 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:35,680 Speaker 1: you guys. There's a Huffington Post article published inven titled 636 00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:40,280 Speaker 1: the Thomas Merton Book they don't want you to read. Okay, 637 00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:44,959 Speaker 1: totally worth it. It's uh, you know, if you're looking 638 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:47,520 Speaker 1: for something to read, check out the Seven Story Mountain. 639 00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:51,000 Speaker 1: That's I think it's autobiography. Maybe not. It's that's one 640 00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:54,840 Speaker 1: that he wrote that people say is worth your time. 641 00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,000 Speaker 1: So anyway, that's what we know about Thomas right now. 642 00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:01,720 Speaker 1: We will come back to look his the circumstances surrounding 643 00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:05,000 Speaker 1: his death more very soon. Thanks so much. We'll be 644 00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:14,439 Speaker 1: right back after another word from our sponsor. Welcome back, 645 00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:19,600 Speaker 1: fellow conspiracy realist. Quick update. I've made some peace with 646 00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:22,799 Speaker 1: the with the good folks over at Lucky Jack and 647 00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:25,960 Speaker 1: did not mean to be disparaging in my earlier comments. 648 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:28,680 Speaker 1: You like that instant retraction on the show, you guys. 649 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,760 Speaker 1: I don't want any bad blood does. It just doesn't 650 00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:34,240 Speaker 1: get better after it's in your stomach for a while 651 00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:39,920 Speaker 1: you know what, Maybe that's it. Maybe that's it. You know, 652 00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:42,520 Speaker 1: maybe I was just being a curmudgeon and I need 653 00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:46,319 Speaker 1: to try to drink more fancy coffee. But maybe there's 654 00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,239 Speaker 1: a conspiracy of foot. Maybe lucky Jack just tastes better 655 00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:53,080 Speaker 1: with every sip. You guys can have that tagline because 656 00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:56,120 Speaker 1: it might be literally true in my case. But this 657 00:37:56,360 --> 00:38:00,560 Speaker 1: final piece of listener mail is all so about a 658 00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:06,759 Speaker 1: conspiracy and it comes to us from Silent sleven S 659 00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:11,399 Speaker 1: l E Number seven e ED. So I'll cut right 660 00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:14,960 Speaker 1: to the chase. Don't need a preamble. Matt doc This 661 00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:18,440 Speaker 1: one in particulars for you guys. The title is this 662 00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:25,640 Speaker 1: potentially the biggest conspiracy in gaming history, Silence says, Afternoon, gentlemen, 663 00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:28,200 Speaker 1: and the not to be Forgotten doc. This one is 664 00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:31,920 Speaker 1: quite a doozy, but could have huge implications if true. 665 00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:37,200 Speaker 1: The short version, people suspect that Hideo Kojima, most notably 666 00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:40,279 Speaker 1: the creator of the Metal Gear series, is behind a 667 00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:45,080 Speaker 1: seemingly small indie studio releasing an upcoming demo to a 668 00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:48,840 Speaker 1: mysterious game that many suspect is a tease for a 669 00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:53,759 Speaker 1: new Silence Hill. The story is time sensitive, as this 670 00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:58,560 Speaker 1: demo is now expected to release on Friday June, so 671 00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:01,520 Speaker 1: by the time you hear the week's listener mail uh 672 00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:05,120 Speaker 1: this uh this demo, if everything is legit will have 673 00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:10,400 Speaker 1: come out. One of the larger overall implications, says Silent, 674 00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:14,279 Speaker 1: is that Kojima's fallout from Konami has all been a 675 00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:19,080 Speaker 1: stunt since and Silent you went on to include some 676 00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:23,120 Speaker 1: links to some Reddit threads that talked more in depth 677 00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:26,239 Speaker 1: about the story, and you say, if you've heard of 678 00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:29,120 Speaker 1: this already, I hope you're enjoying the fun in the 679 00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:33,319 Speaker 1: thought of this being true. If not, welcome to the 680 00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:38,279 Speaker 1: rabbit hole. Best regards, Silent s this is a cool. 681 00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:41,120 Speaker 1: One is a cool and we've got some Hideo Kojima 682 00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:44,520 Speaker 1: fans in the in the stuff they don't want you 683 00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:46,880 Speaker 1: to know a family. He's done a lot of pretty 684 00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:49,440 Speaker 1: crazy stuff. What do you guys remember him for specifically? 685 00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:52,839 Speaker 1: I mean, I think for sure it's metal gear right 686 00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:56,080 Speaker 1: for me, and I mean for me, that's all day 687 00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:58,279 Speaker 1: except for that weird one they made. I don't know 688 00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:00,400 Speaker 1: if he even had a part of which is the 689 00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:02,760 Speaker 1: one where like you're like crawling around on the ground 690 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:06,360 Speaker 1: for the first forty five minutes of the game. No. No, 691 00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:09,760 Speaker 1: it's the one where you're you're a badass named Snake 692 00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:13,839 Speaker 1: and you No, but there's one recent one where you're 693 00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:16,400 Speaker 1: like in a hospital bed and and you escape and 694 00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:20,320 Speaker 1: you're literally crawling around like kind of you know, without 695 00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:23,360 Speaker 1: full use of your limbs. He really commits to the realism, 696 00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:26,920 Speaker 1: I guess is what I'm getting at. He's super into perambulation, 697 00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:30,759 Speaker 1: and it reminds me of you know, I was really 698 00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:35,640 Speaker 1: excited when he released Death Stranding, which was so mysterious, 699 00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:40,600 Speaker 1: and then critics called it a a walking simulator. But 700 00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:42,839 Speaker 1: then in their review, I was just about to say 701 00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:46,600 Speaker 1: something about this, Yeah, okay, wait did you play it talk? No, 702 00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:49,840 Speaker 1: I didn't. I briefly considered it. It was like, Okay, 703 00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:53,600 Speaker 1: when they first started talking about it, I was like, no, 704 00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:55,439 Speaker 1: that doesn't really sound interesting at all to me because 705 00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:58,120 Speaker 1: it kind of sounded like a UPS simulator almost. But 706 00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:00,239 Speaker 1: then like once it actually came out and I heard 707 00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:02,440 Speaker 1: other people talking about it, it was like, that actually 708 00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:05,240 Speaker 1: sounds pretty good, and it got some really good reviews. 709 00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:07,160 Speaker 1: I think it won some video game awards. If my 710 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:12,120 Speaker 1: memories as do you mean like like UPS, like you're 711 00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:15,960 Speaker 1: like a delivery man deliver packages like in this sort 712 00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:20,960 Speaker 1: of like post apocalyptic sort of space, you know, And 713 00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:23,160 Speaker 1: that's a really big part of the game, is him 714 00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:26,120 Speaker 1: delivering these packages and you having to figure out a 715 00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:28,640 Speaker 1: way to like make it across this terrain. Sorry people, 716 00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:31,400 Speaker 1: this isn't really spoilers, but you're like making it across 717 00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:34,759 Speaker 1: this terrain without you know, falling over with all of 718 00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:36,919 Speaker 1: your packages on your back. Yeah, it's hard to walk 719 00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:39,360 Speaker 1: in the game. That's the crazy Like when you read 720 00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:42,880 Speaker 1: the critics reviews, the thing that tracked me up about it, 721 00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:44,799 Speaker 1: and I haven't I haven't ended up playing the game. 722 00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:48,240 Speaker 1: I just read everything about it. Uh, the critics reviews 723 00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:52,480 Speaker 1: are like death Stranding is mainly a walking simulator, five 724 00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:55,759 Speaker 1: out of five stars. It was a very weird way 725 00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,799 Speaker 1: to phrase the review. But uh, just just watch the 726 00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:02,000 Speaker 1: video game donkey coverage of it, and you'll feel like 727 00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:04,440 Speaker 1: you've played it, and you'll laugh and you'll cry and 728 00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:06,520 Speaker 1: and that's all you need. But but also, you know, 729 00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:10,759 Speaker 1: support the creators of the game, but video game dukeys all. 730 00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:13,920 Speaker 1: But also, of course he's a genius and like a 731 00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:17,640 Speaker 1: huge level of respect for him based on his history 732 00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:20,640 Speaker 1: and the gaming industry, So uh, He also like takes 733 00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:23,000 Speaker 1: himself and his work very seriously, which I'm not saying 734 00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:25,200 Speaker 1: is a bad thing, But I know people who were 735 00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:28,320 Speaker 1: very like sort of anti desh Randing and thought it 736 00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:30,480 Speaker 1: sounded stupid when it first came out, and then they 737 00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:32,680 Speaker 1: played it and loved it. So it's been sort of 738 00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:35,160 Speaker 1: on my list to get to, but my backlog it's 739 00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:37,359 Speaker 1: so long. I'm just I just don't think I'm gonna 740 00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:40,000 Speaker 1: make it. He strikes me is almost like the type 741 00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:42,680 Speaker 1: of luminary to the video game industry that like Hao 742 00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:46,000 Speaker 1: Miyazaki as to like the animation industry. I think it's 743 00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:50,480 Speaker 1: a fair comparison. Yeah, in terms of the conspiracy, here's 744 00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:54,040 Speaker 1: here's where the rabbit hole leads us. The story starts 745 00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:59,360 Speaker 1: with a PlayStation five game called Abandoned. Back in April. 746 00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:04,000 Speaker 1: It's Sony said, We've got this project coming from a 747 00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:08,160 Speaker 1: Dutch company called Blue Box Game Studios. We can't tell 748 00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:13,160 Speaker 1: you much about it, but get hyped. And from there 749 00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:20,520 Speaker 1: this beautiful, weirdly intricate conspiracy theory emerged, arguing that a 750 00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:24,440 Speaker 1: the game does not actually exist, and that be it 751 00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:29,600 Speaker 1: is instead a secret new project from Hideo Kojima. Uh 752 00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:34,160 Speaker 1: and this thing just like it blew up, So silent 753 00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:38,080 Speaker 1: S is not alone and being fascinated by this idea. 754 00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:41,080 Speaker 1: People who believe in the theory or at least interested 755 00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:45,760 Speaker 1: in it set up a subreddit just to examine the mystery. Uh. 756 00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:50,319 Speaker 1: It's weird to me because in a way, Kojima has 757 00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:54,560 Speaker 1: kind of created his own mythology. You know, like, if 758 00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:57,919 Speaker 1: this were any other kind of video game creator, people 759 00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:00,560 Speaker 1: would probably not be so quick to jump a board 760 00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:05,600 Speaker 1: like conspiratorial training. But he's he's the weird conspiratorial stuff. 761 00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:08,920 Speaker 1: In the past. He's made fake companies, He's hired actors, 762 00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:12,160 Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, I want to go back to Death Stranding, right, 763 00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:15,680 Speaker 1: There isn't it Guermo del Toro that ends up in 764 00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:19,800 Speaker 1: Death Stranding like one of the trailers. Yeah, he's in 765 00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:24,280 Speaker 1: the think because there was some weirdness with with Gearmo 766 00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:27,680 Speaker 1: and the game they were working on before Death Stranding. 767 00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:30,280 Speaker 1: I don't I don't remember all of the stuff. It's 768 00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:32,680 Speaker 1: kind of hard for me to pull all the details, 769 00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:34,720 Speaker 1: but I know that he does things like that, he nods, 770 00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:40,839 Speaker 1: he does nods two rumors too, stuff that's happening in 771 00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:45,440 Speaker 1: real life, like within the game world sometimes and you know, 772 00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:47,439 Speaker 1: if you if you even look at the Middle Gear 773 00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:52,720 Speaker 1: Solid franchise, the whole thing is this very poetic statement 774 00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:57,359 Speaker 1: about war and nuclear weapons and mass destruction and the 775 00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:02,160 Speaker 1: need for you know, dominance by one tribe over another tribe. 776 00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:06,040 Speaker 1: It's done very symbolically through this storyline, right, And I 777 00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:09,120 Speaker 1: love that he does that with his and melding real 778 00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:13,640 Speaker 1: world and fiction worlds together in that way. I don't know, 779 00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:17,040 Speaker 1: it feels more to me been that the gaming world 780 00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:20,680 Speaker 1: than fans of Kojima and of video games in general. 781 00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:25,759 Speaker 1: So very want a Silent Hill game to exist, Like 782 00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:29,640 Speaker 1: I know, I do. That demo that came out, doc 783 00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:32,440 Speaker 1: what was it called? There was a demo for the 784 00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:36,080 Speaker 1: next Silent Hill game. It had the dude had the 785 00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:39,240 Speaker 1: dude from The Walking Dead in it, and uh, anyway, 786 00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:41,680 Speaker 1: I can't remember the name of it. Yeah, I don't remember. Sorry. 787 00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:43,840 Speaker 1: I think it was called Silent Hills. There was a 788 00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:46,640 Speaker 1: demo made for it that I went crazy over. I 789 00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:50,080 Speaker 1: couldn't believe how it felt to experience the demo, but 790 00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:53,560 Speaker 1: then it just it ended up getting canceled. Silent Hills, Yeah, 791 00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:57,400 Speaker 1: that's what it was called. Like, I personally so badly 792 00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:01,880 Speaker 1: want that game to be real. That the possibility that 793 00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:06,680 Speaker 1: this other game abandoned might be a Cogima Silent Hill 794 00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:10,360 Speaker 1: game just hiding because of for political reasons or whatever 795 00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:15,000 Speaker 1: makes my heart go a flutter. But I can't imagine 796 00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:17,359 Speaker 1: that that could be real. But who knows. It's hard 797 00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:21,640 Speaker 1: to discount anything when it comes to Hideo. Hideo Cogima 798 00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:25,880 Speaker 1: probably knows, I guess, but that's that's he doesn't seem 799 00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:28,440 Speaker 1: super into telling people. So this this gets in a 800 00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:30,360 Speaker 1: little bit. Uh, we're getting a little bit in the 801 00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:35,120 Speaker 1: weeds here. But this is interesting because this theory blew 802 00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:39,360 Speaker 1: up so quickly. Part of this hype comes from a 803 00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:44,040 Speaker 1: tweet and tune fifteen from these folks Blue Box. They've 804 00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:47,239 Speaker 1: deleted the tweet, but they said the following hear me 805 00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:51,000 Speaker 1: out on this. They said, quote, guess the name abandoned 806 00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:56,960 Speaker 1: equals parentheses first letter S, last letter L in parentheses 807 00:46:57,040 --> 00:47:01,439 Speaker 1: reveal closing in dot dot dot, and then they say 808 00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:06,240 Speaker 1: hashtag PS five hashtag exclusive for the big Silent Hill fans. 809 00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:11,080 Speaker 1: That's like that feels like a smoking gun, right, Yeah. 810 00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:14,600 Speaker 1: They would love this tiny little studio would love for 811 00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:19,680 Speaker 1: you to think they're they're associated with Silent Hill. That's true. Yeah, 812 00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:21,680 Speaker 1: that's a good that's a good point about it too. 813 00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:25,880 Speaker 1: There is there is some leveraging, right, some opportunism or 814 00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:30,680 Speaker 1: at least some they're capitalizing on stuff. The issue is 815 00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:33,880 Speaker 1: that the head of the studio, the head of Blue Box, 816 00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:38,880 Speaker 1: a guy named Hassan Karaman. He came forward and said, yeah, no, 817 00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:42,160 Speaker 1: look we we don't actually have anything to do with this, 818 00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:49,720 Speaker 1: and kojimas fans did not believe it. You're an actor, 819 00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:52,799 Speaker 1: admit it, and he's like, no, I'm a game developer. 820 00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:55,399 Speaker 1: That's like my job. I have this student, we make 821 00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:59,400 Speaker 1: video games. And people still didn't believe them until they 822 00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:03,880 Speaker 1: found out that he had been posting on some forums 823 00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:07,799 Speaker 1: for game developers for months and months and months, so 824 00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:11,400 Speaker 1: he looked like he was legit. This happens a lot 825 00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:14,040 Speaker 1: of times with any kind of conspiracy. People want it 826 00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:19,200 Speaker 1: to be so true, so profoundly that they ignore what's 827 00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:24,359 Speaker 1: actually happening in Blue Box Games. Keep saying absolutely none 828 00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:27,160 Speaker 1: of this is true. Maybe you all are spending too 829 00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:31,840 Speaker 1: much time on the internet. But then I think you 830 00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:35,360 Speaker 1: know to your point that everybody wants that game to 831 00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:39,319 Speaker 1: be real, you know, so intensely. Did they want this 832 00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:41,799 Speaker 1: that they're not going to let facts get in the 833 00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:45,279 Speaker 1: way of a good story. And also that's what they 834 00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:47,480 Speaker 1: would say, you know what I mean, like they wouldn't 835 00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:51,680 Speaker 1: come clean just yet. So you know, that's a really 836 00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:56,520 Speaker 1: good point. Guy. Yeah, guys, did you even take into 837 00:48:56,560 --> 00:49:01,400 Speaker 1: account that this guy's initials A K are the same 838 00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:07,640 Speaker 1: as Hideo. We're blowing this thing wide open. This is 839 00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:10,320 Speaker 1: gonna be the episode that spells doom for our show. 840 00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:12,640 Speaker 1: This is going to be the line we weren't supposed 841 00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:17,480 Speaker 1: to cross while we're here. I think it gives us. 842 00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:21,359 Speaker 1: It gives us a glimpse into how quickly these things 843 00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:26,120 Speaker 1: can proliferate and how quickly they can fall apart. If 844 00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:29,760 Speaker 1: you'd like to learn more, check out kotaku dot COM's 845 00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:36,120 Speaker 1: article Hideo Kojima conspiracy theory ends with tears because it 846 00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:41,799 Speaker 1: looks like these rumors just don't don't hold up. One 847 00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:44,360 Speaker 1: great example of this, or one sad example for the 848 00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:47,719 Speaker 1: true believers, comes to us from a reporter from Bloomberg 849 00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:52,759 Speaker 1: named Jason Shrear. So. Shreer is not, you know, a 850 00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:55,839 Speaker 1: huge video game fan, but he was really interested in 851 00:49:56,640 --> 00:50:02,960 Speaker 1: watching this uh theory developed online in real time, and 852 00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:05,719 Speaker 1: he started out kind of on board with it, but 853 00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:09,680 Speaker 1: as he was digging in, you know, as investigative reporters do, 854 00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:13,960 Speaker 1: he found more and more holes with these theories. First, 855 00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:18,320 Speaker 1: Blue Box had a history of failed Kickstarter campaigns going 856 00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:21,520 Speaker 1: back years and years and years, and that made it 857 00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:25,520 Speaker 1: increasingly unlikely that it was a front for some new, 858 00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:29,120 Speaker 1: top secret Kojima game. And so another nail in the 859 00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:32,080 Speaker 1: coffin here is that Blue Box, when they were answering 860 00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:35,080 Speaker 1: some of their own questions or riddles that they cryptically 861 00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:39,520 Speaker 1: posted on the internet. Uh, their answers seemed to discount 862 00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:43,480 Speaker 1: these theories right that Kojima would somehow be involved. So 863 00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:48,040 Speaker 1: it may be all sound and fury signify nothing, because 864 00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:54,040 Speaker 1: increasingly a lot of people are convinced that this studio was, 865 00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:58,640 Speaker 1: as Katako puts it, quote bolsting around to build hype 866 00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:01,799 Speaker 1: for its little budget or a game. Again, for the 867 00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:05,359 Speaker 1: true believers this these are all red herrings, right, there's 868 00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:08,319 Speaker 1: a school of red herrings, and they and only they 869 00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:10,920 Speaker 1: can see the truth, and everybody else will have to 870 00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:15,239 Speaker 1: eat crow, eat humble pie, whatever uh figure speech you 871 00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:18,440 Speaker 1: want to use once this game comes out. And you know, 872 00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:23,480 Speaker 1: Doc Matt, I am not the biggest gamer. Uh So 873 00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:27,560 Speaker 1: I I was interested to read about this, but even 874 00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:30,759 Speaker 1: for someone who's not as plugged in like me, it 875 00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:35,640 Speaker 1: is a fascinating study and how these how these ideas generate. 876 00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:39,320 Speaker 1: And I'm wondering if you all would like to play 877 00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:42,560 Speaker 1: a little bit, Not to sound like that somebody from 878 00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:44,200 Speaker 1: a horror movie, but if you all would like to 879 00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:48,279 Speaker 1: play a game with me, I bet you that we 880 00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:51,520 Speaker 1: could do a little uh A r G kind of 881 00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:55,200 Speaker 1: stuff ourselves. I bet you we could create a conspiracy 882 00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:59,880 Speaker 1: theory and propagated and people would believe it despite the 883 00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:03,279 Speaker 1: act that I am on air pitching this idea to 884 00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:06,560 Speaker 1: you right now. Well, yeah, but it's just in this episode, 885 00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:08,960 Speaker 1: because I mean, we make so many at this point, 886 00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:12,840 Speaker 1: it's gonna get buried so fast. Nobody will remember that 887 00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:18,640 Speaker 1: we are actively doing a conspiracy in all, are we 888 00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:23,279 Speaker 1: all in? It's already happening. Like I said, it's two 889 00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:30,040 Speaker 1: right now, just remembering talking about this, Yeah, I'm down. 890 00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:32,200 Speaker 1: So I just want to say there's something there's a 891 00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:34,560 Speaker 1: real danger here. It's a good and bad thing. But 892 00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:37,960 Speaker 1: I would say often it turns out to be a 893 00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:41,680 Speaker 1: terrible thing for video game companies as they're trying to 894 00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:44,600 Speaker 1: just hype the absolute living crap out of their games. 895 00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:47,360 Speaker 1: And you know, I was gonna do a fun reveal 896 00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:50,960 Speaker 1: or something, but uh, you know, there's this one game 897 00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:54,320 Speaker 1: I remember that had so much hype for it, and 898 00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:57,760 Speaker 1: I was so excited to get it and I couldn't wait. 899 00:52:58,080 --> 00:53:03,799 Speaker 1: And then everybody's started popping out. And for anyone in 900 00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:06,799 Speaker 1: case this isn't on our YouTube challenge, and just hearing 901 00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:10,200 Speaker 1: the audio version, let me innarrate what happened. Matt just 902 00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:14,520 Speaker 1: slowly he held up he held up an object really 903 00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:16,919 Speaker 1: closely the camera, and then he pulled away and it 904 00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:22,120 Speaker 1: was E E T for Atari. So much hype, so 905 00:53:22,160 --> 00:53:29,000 Speaker 1: many God, please let's remember to believe of those d s. Okay, cool, 906 00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:31,800 Speaker 1: Sorry about that guy, that's my fault. No, but seriously, 907 00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:35,879 Speaker 1: the hype, just the hype on cyberpunk, like it hasn't 908 00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:40,560 Speaker 1: necessarily ruined a company, but it's it's taken away a 909 00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:43,160 Speaker 1: lot of the good will, like the tremendous amount of 910 00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:47,640 Speaker 1: goodwill that gamers had for one specific company, CD Project Red, 911 00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:53,480 Speaker 1: huge blemish record, and it was because of the hype. Man, 912 00:53:53,680 --> 00:53:56,080 Speaker 1: I'm telling you, if this was just a cool game 913 00:53:56,160 --> 00:53:59,080 Speaker 1: coming out, they could have said, oh no, well, um, 914 00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:02,319 Speaker 1: we'll push it back again, which they should have what 915 00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:05,680 Speaker 1: they didn't. I think about that a lot to you know. 916 00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:09,960 Speaker 1: It's it's something that's become the norm over the past 917 00:54:10,040 --> 00:54:14,399 Speaker 1: decade or so, as more and more people are accustomed 918 00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:19,600 Speaker 1: to a world of ubiquitous, NonStop information about every tidy development. Uh. 919 00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:23,320 Speaker 1: I reached a point. I'm a person loves spoilers. I 920 00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:26,319 Speaker 1: reached a point where I thought, you know, if if 921 00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:29,959 Speaker 1: there's a film or project or an album that's coming 922 00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:32,959 Speaker 1: out and I know I'm gonna love it, just tell 923 00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:35,719 Speaker 1: me about it, like a month before. Don't tell me, 924 00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:43,120 Speaker 1: you know, in five years, yeah, like in six years, right, yeah, 925 00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:45,200 Speaker 1: and even then, don't tell me that much about it. 926 00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:48,839 Speaker 1: Just let me know that, Hey, you're probably gonna like this. 927 00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:53,200 Speaker 1: You go, let me see keyword, keyword, yes, oh, action 928 00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:58,080 Speaker 1: verse keyword I'm in And definitely don't say Kiana reeves 929 00:54:58,080 --> 00:55:00,800 Speaker 1: out to get my hopes about it. Yeah. I remember 930 00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:03,239 Speaker 1: you were pretty upset about that one. Everybody was kind 931 00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:06,040 Speaker 1: of afraid to talk to you on the call. Yeah, 932 00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:11,839 Speaker 1: and I was so excited. Yes, yeah, you know it's 933 00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:14,000 Speaker 1: it's true and there is a marketing machine and it 934 00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:16,520 Speaker 1: does help a lot of people by the fact of 935 00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:18,880 Speaker 1: its existence, but I wonder if we really need it, 936 00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:24,839 Speaker 1: you know, I mean, marketing itself is inherently conspiratorial. Um, 937 00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:27,640 Speaker 1: I guess they want to get pre orders or something. 938 00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:30,319 Speaker 1: And look, we've gone pretty far in the weeds on this, 939 00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:33,880 Speaker 1: but Silent thank you for bringing this to our attention. 940 00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:35,959 Speaker 1: We'll keep an eye out. And you know what if 941 00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:40,120 Speaker 1: if Hideo comes forward and is like, wahha ha, I 942 00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:43,919 Speaker 1: got you all, Silent Hills, that I'm gonna be the 943 00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:47,000 Speaker 1: first person to go on air on our show and 944 00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:50,879 Speaker 1: say that these theories were correct. At this point, it 945 00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:53,960 Speaker 1: looks like it would be pretty difficult for them to 946 00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:57,200 Speaker 1: be correct. But there's not there's not hard proof that 947 00:55:57,239 --> 00:56:00,840 Speaker 1: they're not yet other than, you know, other than the 948 00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:06,399 Speaker 1: studio saying we didn't sorry. But as Doc pointed out, 949 00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:10,279 Speaker 1: of course that's what they would say, so right well, 950 00:56:10,320 --> 00:56:12,440 Speaker 1: And in the meantime, if you're looking for a Silent 951 00:56:12,520 --> 00:56:15,840 Speaker 1: Hill game, just go play Resident Evil Village, the Village, 952 00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:18,759 Speaker 1: whatever it is. It's the eighth one. It looks like 953 00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:20,600 Speaker 1: it's going to be pretty great. I haven't played it yet. 954 00:56:20,719 --> 00:56:24,920 Speaker 1: And with that, we would love to hear from you. 955 00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:29,799 Speaker 1: If you are interested in video game conspiracies, check out 956 00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:33,360 Speaker 1: our earlier video on polly Bus. I believe it's called 957 00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:37,279 Speaker 1: Polybius polly Bus. We called it Polybius, but I think 958 00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:40,479 Speaker 1: it's polly Bias. Maybe I don't know. I don't know. Well, 959 00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:43,359 Speaker 1: check out that video. Let us know what you think. 960 00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:48,440 Speaker 1: Thanks to Anonymous, thanks to Murray, and as we said earlier, 961 00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:52,040 Speaker 1: thanks to Silent. So if you would like to take 962 00:56:52,080 --> 00:56:56,520 Speaker 1: a page from your fellow conspiracy realist book, why not 963 00:56:56,600 --> 00:56:58,560 Speaker 1: write to us. We can't wait to hear from you, 964 00:56:58,719 --> 00:57:01,319 Speaker 1: especially if you have suggests for topics we should cover 965 00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:03,440 Speaker 1: in the future. And we try to make it easy 966 00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:06,319 Speaker 1: to find us online that it is correct. We are 967 00:57:06,360 --> 00:57:11,080 Speaker 1: pretty easy. Conspiracy stuff on Twitter and Facebook, conspiracy stuff 968 00:57:11,120 --> 00:57:15,640 Speaker 1: show on Instagram, and you can also find us personally 969 00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:19,280 Speaker 1: on Instagram and Twitter and places. Ben, what are your handles? 970 00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:23,720 Speaker 1: All right? Well? With pro quo claries, Matt, if I 971 00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:25,360 Speaker 1: say it, you have to say you have to give 972 00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:29,360 Speaker 1: away yours as well. Cool, alright, alright, the covenant has 973 00:57:29,360 --> 00:57:31,960 Speaker 1: been made, so you can find me at Ben Bolan 974 00:57:32,160 --> 00:57:35,200 Speaker 1: bow l i n on Instagram. You can get a 975 00:57:35,240 --> 00:57:39,760 Speaker 1: behind the scenes peak on the research that's going into stuff. 976 00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:42,160 Speaker 1: They don't want you to know any other any other 977 00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:46,120 Speaker 1: number of misadventures, including when I end up outside of 978 00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:50,480 Speaker 1: the country at Ben bolland hs W on Twitter. But 979 00:57:51,080 --> 00:57:55,880 Speaker 1: if you are a person of taste in class, then 980 00:57:55,920 --> 00:57:58,560 Speaker 1: there is another Instagram you should follow, and that's the 981 00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:03,120 Speaker 1: Instagram of our very own Matt Frederick. Get that's set up. 982 00:58:03,160 --> 00:58:05,640 Speaker 1: Now you basically have now I have to. You can 983 00:58:05,680 --> 00:58:10,400 Speaker 1: find me at night city net stunter sixty nine. That's uh, 984 00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:15,520 Speaker 1: that's my Instagram handle, and check that out. What was 985 00:58:15,560 --> 00:58:20,000 Speaker 1: it again, just so everybody remembers night city like night 986 00:58:20,120 --> 00:58:25,240 Speaker 1: and then city net stunter. Okay, that's my that's my handle. 987 00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:28,280 Speaker 1: You'll find it. You'll you'll find it. Uh. And then 988 00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:30,800 Speaker 1: if you don't want to do social media, we also 989 00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:33,600 Speaker 1: have a phone number that you can actually call us 990 00:58:33,680 --> 00:58:37,480 Speaker 1: and and leave a message. Our number is one eight 991 00:58:37,640 --> 00:58:41,960 Speaker 1: three three std w y t K. You'll have three minutes. 992 00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:45,320 Speaker 1: Those three minutes are yours. Just let us give yourself 993 00:58:45,560 --> 00:58:48,200 Speaker 1: a sick nickname. Let us know what you'd like us 994 00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:51,080 Speaker 1: to call you. Uh. Most importantly, let us know whether 995 00:58:51,480 --> 00:58:54,080 Speaker 1: or not we can use your name and voice and 996 00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:56,680 Speaker 1: message on the air. Tell us what's on your mind. 997 00:58:56,800 --> 00:58:59,160 Speaker 1: If you have something personal that you just want to 998 00:58:59,160 --> 00:59:02,640 Speaker 1: share with our crew, but you don't want to getting 999 00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:05,080 Speaker 1: all over a podcast, that's fine. Just put it at 1000 00:59:05,080 --> 00:59:08,320 Speaker 1: the end. Even more importantly than that, if you have 1001 00:59:08,400 --> 00:59:11,880 Speaker 1: a story, if you have an idea that needs more 1002 00:59:11,960 --> 00:59:14,600 Speaker 1: than three minutes, then don't feel like you have to 1003 00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:17,000 Speaker 1: censor yourself. Don't feel like you have to edit yourself. 1004 00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:20,920 Speaker 1: Just right to us directly. We read every single message 1005 00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:23,919 Speaker 1: we receive at our good old fashioned email address, which 1006 00:59:24,080 --> 00:59:45,640 Speaker 1: is conspiracy at i heeart radio dot com. Stuff they 1007 00:59:45,640 --> 00:59:47,560 Speaker 1: Don't want you to know is a production of I 1008 00:59:47,680 --> 00:59:50,800 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit 1009 00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:53,560 Speaker 1: the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 1010 00:59:53,640 --> 00:59:54,800 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.