WEBVTT - SYMHC Classics: Plessy v Ferguson 0:00:02.360 --> 0:00:05.800 Happy Saturday. One of our episodes coming up this week 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:08.520 includes a brief mention of the U. S. Supreme Court 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:13.080 decision Lessie Versus Ferguson, which upheld racial segregation as long 0:00:13.119 --> 0:00:18.040 as the segregated facilities are equal. We're bringing our episode 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:20.880 on Lessie versus. Ferguson out of the archive to give 0:00:20.960 --> 0:00:23.160 a little bit more context to that. And when this 0:00:23.200 --> 0:00:26.320 episode originally came out, we followed up with two episodes 0:00:26.400 --> 0:00:30.560 on Brown v Board which overturned this ruling. We mentioned 0:00:30.640 --> 0:00:32.400 that those are coming at the top of the episode, 0:00:32.440 --> 0:00:34.800 but since we have other classics lined up over the 0:00:34.800 --> 0:00:37.239 next few weeks, just to be aware, we're not going 0:00:37.280 --> 0:00:39.720 to be replaying those this time around, so don't don't 0:00:39.720 --> 0:00:41.440 wait for those to show up in your feed, but 0:00:41.520 --> 0:00:44.120 they still are in the archive if folks are interested. 0:00:44.560 --> 0:00:52.560 This originally came out February Welcome to Stuff You Missed 0:00:52.560 --> 0:01:01.280 in History Class, a production of I Heart Radio. Hello, 0:01:01.400 --> 0:01:04.399 and welcome to the podcast. I'm Tracy V. Wilson and 0:01:04.480 --> 0:01:08.000 I'm Fry. We are going to spend a few episodes 0:01:08.160 --> 0:01:11.600 over the next few weeks talking about the two Supreme 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:15.600 Court cases that uh sort of in a way book 0:01:15.720 --> 0:01:20.200 ended segregation in the United States, and plus E versus Ferguson, 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:24.039 the Supreme Court ruled that segregation was legal as long 0:01:24.080 --> 0:01:28.559 as the separate facilities were equal, And then many years later, 0:01:29.000 --> 0:01:32.840 Brown versus Board of Education overturned Plusy versus Ferguson and 0:01:32.880 --> 0:01:37.360 found that school segregation was unconstitutional. That decision was such 0:01:37.400 --> 0:01:39.440 a big deal and was so monumental and led to 0:01:39.520 --> 0:01:42.640 such a huge backlash that we're actually going to split 0:01:42.760 --> 0:01:46.640 that part of the conversation into two episodes later down 0:01:46.640 --> 0:01:51.160 the road. So those two facts about plus E versus 0:01:51.160 --> 0:01:55.200 Ferguson and Brown versus Board are things that most people 0:01:55.200 --> 0:01:58.279 who have studied the civil rights movement or United States 0:01:58.320 --> 0:02:01.960 history in any way are pretty familiar with. But I 0:02:02.000 --> 0:02:04.480 think for me and for you, both both of us 0:02:05.520 --> 0:02:08.079 and probably a lot of other people, the names of 0:02:08.080 --> 0:02:12.679 the cases and what they did is the beginning and 0:02:12.720 --> 0:02:15.280 the end of the conversation. Like, I had no idea 0:02:15.320 --> 0:02:17.720 what the story was behind, how these cases came to be, 0:02:18.440 --> 0:02:20.480 or any of that until I really got into researching 0:02:20.520 --> 0:02:23.320 them for these episodes. So that's why we're going to 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:25.000 spend some time on this to talk about who the 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:29.240 people were involved in Plessy versus Ferguson and Brown versus Board, 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:31.400 and sort of the journey that these cases took to 0:02:31.400 --> 0:02:34.440 come to the Supreme Court in the first place. So 0:02:34.520 --> 0:02:36.400 the context that we're going to start with today is 0:02:36.400 --> 0:02:39.560 actually the U. S. Civil War. There are people who 0:02:39.560 --> 0:02:42.480 will argue that the Civil War was not fought over slavery, 0:02:42.520 --> 0:02:45.359 that it was about states rights or economics. And while 0:02:45.400 --> 0:02:49.320 states rights and economics were certainly involved, the primary rights 0:02:49.320 --> 0:02:52.880 in question were the right to own slaves and the 0:02:52.960 --> 0:02:56.359 right to travel freely with slaves into states where slavery 0:02:56.480 --> 0:03:00.320 was illegal. The primary economic factor at issue, you was 0:03:00.360 --> 0:03:03.840 that the Southern economy really relied on slavery in labor 0:03:03.840 --> 0:03:08.160 intensive industries such as cotton farming. You could also make 0:03:08.160 --> 0:03:11.280 the argument that the Civil War was fought over over 0:03:11.480 --> 0:03:14.160 neither of those two things, That it was fought because 0:03:14.160 --> 0:03:16.640 the North wanted to preserve the Union of the States, 0:03:16.680 --> 0:03:19.400 but the South wanted to secede from that union. And 0:03:19.440 --> 0:03:23.040 while strictly speaking this is also true, the big factor 0:03:23.080 --> 0:03:27.240 that was driving states to succede, which was specifically cited 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:31.320 in the declarations of causes that were issued by Georgia, Mississippi, 0:03:31.360 --> 0:03:35.480 South Carolina, and Texas was slavery. This is all relevant 0:03:35.520 --> 0:03:38.280 because after the Union won the war in eighteen sixty five, 0:03:38.720 --> 0:03:41.840 slavery was abolished in the places where it was still legal. 0:03:42.280 --> 0:03:45.360 The federal government tried to rebuild the Southern infrastructure and 0:03:45.480 --> 0:03:48.680 encourage racial equality in a period that became known as 0:03:48.720 --> 0:03:53.280 the Reconstruction. Three amendments were added to the United States 0:03:53.320 --> 0:03:57.360 Constitution as part of this effort. The thirteenth Amendment formally 0:03:57.400 --> 0:04:01.800 abolished slavery, the fourteenth Amen meant granted citizenship to anyone 0:04:01.840 --> 0:04:05.040 who was born in the United States or nationalized, which 0:04:05.040 --> 0:04:08.320 included former slaves. And the fifteenth Amendment read, in part, 0:04:08.640 --> 0:04:11.280 the right of citizens of the United States to vote 0:04:11.520 --> 0:04:14.680 shall not be denied or abridged by the United States 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:17.440 or by any State, on account of race, color, or 0:04:17.560 --> 0:04:21.599 previous condition of servitude. There was a lot more going 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:24.800 on during Reconstruction. All of the twists and turns could 0:04:24.800 --> 0:04:27.760 easily be their own whole series of episodes. But to 0:04:27.839 --> 0:04:31.680 make an extremely long story short, the South overall resented 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:34.920 the largely Northern pressure to free slaves and give them 0:04:34.960 --> 0:04:37.840 the right to vote. This was especially true as black 0:04:37.880 --> 0:04:40.440 officials were elected to office in the South and for 0:04:40.480 --> 0:04:43.400 a brief period of time, some progress was made towards 0:04:43.520 --> 0:04:48.000 rachel equality. As the Southern states were readmitted to the 0:04:48.120 --> 0:04:51.280 Union and the federal government had less influence on how 0:04:51.320 --> 0:04:54.640 those states were run, the states started passing laws that 0:04:54.720 --> 0:04:58.720 restricted African Americans right to vote by basically taking an 0:04:58.880 --> 0:05:01.560 advantage of the fact that most of them had been slaves, 0:05:02.040 --> 0:05:04.080 and during their time as slaves, they had not been 0:05:04.120 --> 0:05:07.000 allowed to learn to read or write, or to earn 0:05:07.000 --> 0:05:10.720 money or to hold property. So new laws required that 0:05:10.760 --> 0:05:13.400 in order to vote, people had to pass a literacy test, 0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:16.760 or pay a poll tax, or own property, something that 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:19.960 in general white people in the South could do much 0:05:19.960 --> 0:05:23.240 more easily than black people could. Some of these tests 0:05:23.240 --> 0:05:29.119 were also virtually unpassable. But we're only required for black voters. 0:05:29.160 --> 0:05:32.479 But their right to vote restricted, Black Americans lost many 0:05:32.520 --> 0:05:37.560 of their prior gains in terms of representation in the government. Afterwards, states, 0:05:37.640 --> 0:05:41.880 both Southern states and border states enacted segregation laws that 0:05:41.960 --> 0:05:45.039 became known as Jim Crow laws, which separated black and 0:05:45.040 --> 0:05:49.400 white citizens in everything from hospitals to water fountains. Just 0:05:49.480 --> 0:05:52.200 the name Jim Crow was an insult. It came from 0:05:52.200 --> 0:05:56.960 a heavily stereotypical character in minstrel shows. These laws were 0:05:57.080 --> 0:06:00.520 enforced not just through the usual means of making arrests 0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:03.440 and bringing people to trial, but also through a social 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:07.120 structure that insisted that black people be subservient to white people. 0:06:07.880 --> 0:06:12.040 The laws were also enforced more directly through intimidation and violence, 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:16.520 up to and including murder. White supremacy organizations like the 0:06:16.560 --> 0:06:20.320 Ku Klux Klan really flourished, and violence against black citizens 0:06:20.320 --> 0:06:24.000 at the hand of white citizens became both commonplace and 0:06:24.160 --> 0:06:27.719 rarely prosecuted. Before we get into talking about a Jim 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:30.240 Crow law and how it led to a Supreme Court 0:06:30.279 --> 0:06:32.719 ruling that legalized segregation, do you want to have a 0:06:32.760 --> 0:06:45.640 word from a sponsor? Sure stupendous? So to return to 0:06:45.680 --> 0:06:49.520 the story of Plessy versus Ferguson. One example of these 0:06:49.600 --> 0:06:53.160 Jim Crow laws was Louisiana's separate car law. And this 0:06:53.240 --> 0:06:56.760 law was to quote promote the comfort of passengers on 0:06:56.800 --> 0:07:01.800 their trains by providing quote equal at separate accommodations for 0:07:01.839 --> 0:07:05.279 the white and colored races. So anyone who boarded a 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:07.800 car in Louisiana that was not meant for their race 0:07:07.880 --> 0:07:12.240 could be fined or jailed. Interracial couples were not exempt 0:07:12.240 --> 0:07:15.240 from the law, nor were black maids and servants who 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:18.960 were traveling with white employers. Really, the only exception was 0:07:19.080 --> 0:07:21.920 nurses who were taking care of children of another race. 0:07:22.760 --> 0:07:27.520 This was signed into law on July tenth. Thanks to 0:07:27.600 --> 0:07:32.280 its sizable black population, including slaves, free slaves, and creoles 0:07:32.320 --> 0:07:35.520 of color, and to the Union's presence in New Orleans 0:07:35.640 --> 0:07:38.320 during much of the Civil War, New Orleans have become 0:07:38.360 --> 0:07:42.560 home to a large population of affluent, politically active black citizens. 0:07:43.120 --> 0:07:45.800 When the separate car Law was passed, activists in New 0:07:45.920 --> 0:07:48.520 Orleans set to work immediately trying to put together a 0:07:48.560 --> 0:07:53.800 plan to challenge it. On September one, eighteen, prominent black 0:07:53.840 --> 0:07:57.560 and Creole New Orleans citizens formed the Citizens Committee to 0:07:57.640 --> 0:08:02.560 test the constitutionality of the Separate Our Law, or the Committoyer. 0:08:03.280 --> 0:08:06.560 They got legal help from a white lawyer named Albion W. Tourge. 0:08:06.760 --> 0:08:08.960 He was from New York and had been an abolitionist. 0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:12.280 Tourge waived his fees and he promised to argue the 0:08:12.320 --> 0:08:14.720 case before the Supreme Court. Shouldn't make it all the 0:08:14.760 --> 0:08:18.480 way there, since Tourge was both very busy and also 0:08:18.720 --> 0:08:21.440 very far away from Louisiana. They also had the help 0:08:21.480 --> 0:08:25.680 of a local lawyer named James C. Walker. The committee 0:08:25.680 --> 0:08:29.400 settled on a strategy of civil disobedience. They would find 0:08:29.480 --> 0:08:32.000 someone to break the separate car law and get arrested, 0:08:32.080 --> 0:08:35.240 and then they would take the case through the court system. 0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:38.200 This they hoped would lead to overturning segregation, not just 0:08:38.280 --> 0:08:41.319 on Louisiana trains, but in all of the United States. 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:45.360 Then they started looking for volunteers who the law would 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:49.520 consider to be colored, but who looked white. Legal distinctions 0:08:49.600 --> 0:08:51.920 about who was considered to be part of which race 0:08:52.080 --> 0:08:54.960 really varied from state to state and through the years, 0:08:55.120 --> 0:08:58.080 and as a general rule, particularly in the South, the 0:08:58.160 --> 0:09:01.640 law required smaller and small our amounts of African American 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:05.800 ancestry to be considered colored, and eventually this came down 0:09:05.800 --> 0:09:08.480 to the one drop rule, meaning that in a lot 0:09:08.520 --> 0:09:12.560 of places, if a person had one drop of African blood, 0:09:12.679 --> 0:09:16.880 that person was considered to be black. Candidates had to 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:20.640 be law abiding citizens with good reputations, people who would 0:09:20.640 --> 0:09:23.520 not be dismissed as disreputable, and who had nothing in 0:09:23.520 --> 0:09:26.440 their background that could be that could become an easy 0:09:26.480 --> 0:09:30.720 excuse for not taking their case seriously. Their first attempt 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:32.760 to break the separate car law was made by a 0:09:32.800 --> 0:09:35.160 man named Daniel did Dunes, and he was a musician. 0:09:35.600 --> 0:09:37.280 He was also the son of one of the members 0:09:37.320 --> 0:09:40.320 of the committee, and he was one eighth black. He 0:09:40.440 --> 0:09:45.040 boarded the first class car of a train on February 0:09:45.120 --> 0:09:47.199 and then he told the conductor that he was colored. 0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:51.280 He was removed from the train and arrested, but before 0:09:51.320 --> 0:09:53.440 the case could go to trial, the charges against him 0:09:53.440 --> 0:09:56.240 were dismissed because the state Supreme Court ruled in a 0:09:56.280 --> 0:10:01.000 different case that state segregation laws couldn't apply to interstate travel. 0:10:01.800 --> 0:10:05.240 Day Dune's tickets had been to Mobile, Alabama, so per 0:10:05.280 --> 0:10:08.760 the Louisiana Supreme Court, that ride was regulated by federal 0:10:08.880 --> 0:10:12.400 law and not state law. The committee had actually chosen 0:10:12.440 --> 0:10:15.040 an interstate ticket on purpose, because they were hoping to 0:10:15.120 --> 0:10:18.800 draw on interstate commerce commerce laws in the case. The 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:21.959 committee tried again, and this time the man breaking the 0:10:22.040 --> 0:10:26.080 law was Homer Plessy, a thirty year old shoemaker. He 0:10:26.200 --> 0:10:29.200 was also one eighth African American. One of his great 0:10:29.200 --> 0:10:32.120 grandmothers had been black, and he had skin light enough 0:10:32.160 --> 0:10:35.040 that he would not be questioned boarding the car. He 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:37.920 bought his first class ticket to Covington, Louisiana on the 0:10:37.920 --> 0:10:41.640 East Louisiana Railroad, so that the whole trip would take 0:10:41.679 --> 0:10:45.320 place within the borders of the state. Nobody raised any 0:10:45.400 --> 0:10:48.600 questions when plus He boarded the first class car, and 0:10:48.679 --> 0:10:52.000 different accounts vary and exactly how the conductor came to 0:10:52.080 --> 0:10:54.200 know that he was legally a colored man and in 0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:57.120 the wrong place, and some of the versions Plus he 0:10:57.240 --> 0:11:01.439 just told him, and in others the conductor asked because 0:11:01.440 --> 0:11:03.800 he knew that the Committee was sending someone to test 0:11:03.840 --> 0:11:08.079 the segregation law that day, and in others the conductor 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:10.280 asked everyone in the car because it was part of 0:11:10.320 --> 0:11:12.840 his job to confirm the race of all passengers and 0:11:12.880 --> 0:11:16.000 that everyone was in the correct car on the train. 0:11:17.080 --> 0:11:19.959 Regardless of how it played out, and this information came 0:11:20.000 --> 0:11:23.880 to light, the train's conductor, J. J. Dowling asked Homer 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:27.320 Plessy to leave the train after learning his race, and 0:11:27.360 --> 0:11:30.560 even though the law designated separate but equal cars, there 0:11:30.679 --> 0:11:33.440 was not actually a car for black passengers on the 0:11:33.480 --> 0:11:37.240 train that day. Plus he refused, he was arrested by 0:11:37.240 --> 0:11:41.880 a private detective hired by the committee and jailed. Members 0:11:41.920 --> 0:11:44.840 of the Citizens Committee pulled their money to bail Plusy 0:11:44.880 --> 0:11:50.120 out Plessy's trial was set for October thirteenth, eight two. 0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:54.840 James Walker, who we mentioned earlier, argued that his arrest 0:11:54.920 --> 0:11:59.040 violated the thirteenth and fourteenth Amendments to the Constitution. Previous 0:11:59.080 --> 0:12:02.320 court rulings had expanded on the interpretation of the thirteenth 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:06.880 Amendment not just to include literal slavery, but also quote 0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:09.560 badges of slavery and service ude, which is how an 0:12:09.559 --> 0:12:12.560 amendment that was set up to abolish slavery was being 0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:15.720 applied to the matter of being segregated on a train. 0:12:16.720 --> 0:12:20.160 But Lionel Adams, the attorney for the prosecution, argued that 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:23.440 the Separate Car Act reduced racial tension and so it 0:12:23.480 --> 0:12:26.480 was actually good for the state. He also argued that 0:12:26.559 --> 0:12:29.679 because the separate cars were equal, it was not discriminatory 0:12:29.760 --> 0:12:33.200 to separate people into them by their race, although we're 0:12:33.360 --> 0:12:35.800 not clear on how that applied given that there was 0:12:35.840 --> 0:12:40.600 reportedly no actual car for black passengers on that particular train. 0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:45.320 Judge John H. Ferguson ruled in favor of the prosecution 0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:49.160 on November eighteen, and the next step in the case 0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:51.560 was the appeal. But again, we're gonna pause for a 0:12:51.600 --> 0:12:53.640 second for a word from a sponsor before we dig 0:12:53.640 --> 0:13:04.880 into all of that juicy material. So let's let's go 0:13:05.000 --> 0:13:06.679 back to the story, which at this point is going 0:13:06.720 --> 0:13:09.600 to go to the Supreme Court. Plus, his case went 0:13:09.640 --> 0:13:12.080 to the Louisiana Supreme Court first, which heard it on 0:13:12.120 --> 0:13:16.640 November of that year. The arguments were essentially the same 0:13:16.760 --> 0:13:19.400 as what had been argued in the court before, and 0:13:19.440 --> 0:13:21.680 in what came as a surprise to no one, the 0:13:21.760 --> 0:13:24.720 court ruled that the law was not discriminatory because it 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:28.840 applied equally to everyone. It would actually be four years 0:13:28.920 --> 0:13:31.760 before the case would get to the U. S. Supreme Corps, and, 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:34.160 as he had promised when originally agreeing to work with 0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:37.880 the Citizens Committee, Albion Tourge planned to argue the case 0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:41.720 before the Supreme Court rather than appealing immediately. He actually 0:13:41.720 --> 0:13:44.040 decided to take some time to try to raise funds 0:13:44.040 --> 0:13:47.800 for the case and work out his strategy. In addition 0:13:47.840 --> 0:13:50.240 to that, he and the committee were also hoping that 0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:53.040 by delaying a little bit, they would find themselves before 0:13:53.080 --> 0:13:56.560 a court that would see their case more favorably. Based 0:13:56.600 --> 0:14:00.280 on decisions that the court had already issued, Justices eight 0:14:00.800 --> 0:14:03.480 two were really not very likely to find that the 0:14:04.280 --> 0:14:07.760 separate car law was unconstitutional. The President was just not 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:10.880 running in favor of this case. So the committee crossed 0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:13.680 their fingers that some of the justices would be replaced 0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:18.120 before they submitted their own case, and in eight two 0:14:18.200 --> 0:14:23.320 Supreme Court justices died and new appointees took their place. However, 0:14:23.440 --> 0:14:25.680 this did not look much better for Plessy in the 0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:29.200 Citizens Committee than the previous court had. One of the 0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:32.400 new justices was a former Confederate soldier and the other 0:14:32.440 --> 0:14:36.000 had a reputation for being quite conservative. The new court 0:14:36.080 --> 0:14:41.200 also set an immediate precedent of upholding other Jim Crow laws. Plus, 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:44.480 in just those couple of years, the overall racial climate 0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:48.880 in the United States had gotten worse instead of better. So, 0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:50.640 in spite of the fact that things seemed to be 0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:53.320 kind of running against them towards a submitted the case, 0:14:53.360 --> 0:14:57.520 which he prepared along with Walker and Samuel F. Phillips, 0:14:57.560 --> 0:14:59.960 and he submitted it four review towards the end of eighteen. 0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:03.440 The Supreme Court heard the case, which was now known 0:15:03.480 --> 0:15:07.320 as plus E versus Ferguson, in eight nine six. In 0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:10.880 the written briefs and oral arguments, Tourge and team argued 0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:14.280 that the separate car law was unconstitutional, in several ways, 0:15:14.840 --> 0:15:19.400 including the following. This is very much an abridged list, 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:22.960 but first up, it violated the Fourteenth Amendment from several 0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:27.440 different angles by giving white citizens and colored citizens different 0:15:27.520 --> 0:15:31.800 rights and protections under the law. Second, while proponents of 0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:33.800 the law claimed it was for the comfort of both 0:15:33.880 --> 0:15:37.400 black and white passengers, Tourge argued that it was really 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:40.160 for the comfort of white passengers at the expense of 0:15:40.160 --> 0:15:45.080 black passengers, and therefore discriminatory. Second, while proponents of the 0:15:45.120 --> 0:15:47.000 law claimed that it was for the comfort of both 0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:50.520 black and white passengers, Tourge argued that it was really 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:53.200 for the comfort of white passengers at the expense of 0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:58.120 black passengers, and therefore discriminatory. He also argued that the 0:15:58.200 --> 0:16:01.520 law violated the fourteenth of then meants due process clause 0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:05.320 by giving train conductors the power of law enforcement while 0:16:05.320 --> 0:16:10.360 giving train passengers no legal recourse about decisions the conductors made. 0:16:11.520 --> 0:16:15.800 And last that it created conditions of subjection and inferiority, 0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:19.160 which previous court decisions had interpreted to be in violation 0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:25.240 of the Thirteenth Amendment. Representing Louisiana's side was Alexander Peter Morse, 0:16:25.280 --> 0:16:29.640 whose legal specialty was federal appeals He argued that the 0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:32.800 separate car law was designed to prevent problems and serve 0:16:32.880 --> 0:16:36.600 the common good, so, rather than making African American passengers 0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:40.600 second class citizens, according to him, it actually protected them 0:16:40.640 --> 0:16:44.720 from harassment and discrimination by white passengers. He also noted 0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:47.640 several prior cases in which the Supreme Court had had 0:16:47.800 --> 0:16:51.560 upheld States rights in the matter of segregation, and he 0:16:51.640 --> 0:16:53.840 said that the rights at issue in the separate car 0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:57.200 law were not civil rights at all. They were social 0:16:57.280 --> 0:17:02.240 rights which are not constitutionally protected. The Supreme Court announced 0:17:02.280 --> 0:17:06.920 its decision on May eighteenth. Of eight, Justice David J. 0:17:07.080 --> 0:17:11.200 Brewer excused himself from participating because his daughter had just died, 0:17:11.720 --> 0:17:14.879 and the remaining eight judges upheld the constitutionality of the 0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:19.080 separate car law in a seven to one ruling. Henry 0:17:19.080 --> 0:17:23.159 Billings Brown wrote the majority opinion, which dismissed the idea 0:17:23.200 --> 0:17:26.720 that the separate car law violated the Thirteenth Amendment entirely. 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:30.360 He also cited several cases in which the Court had 0:17:30.440 --> 0:17:34.000 upheld States rights to segregate, and he dismissed the idea 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:38.760 that providing separate facilities was inherently discriminatory. This is the thing, 0:17:38.800 --> 0:17:43.000 he wrote on that point, we consider the underlying fallacy 0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:46.000 of the plaintiff's argument to consist in the assumption that 0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:49.639 the enforced separation of the two races stamps the colored 0:17:49.720 --> 0:17:53.480 race with a badge of inferiority. If this be so, 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:56.119 it is not by reason of anything found in the Act, 0:17:56.560 --> 0:17:59.480 but solely because the colored race chooses to put that 0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:03.840 construct and upon it. So it goes on to say 0:18:03.880 --> 0:18:06.960 that if quote, the colored race became the majority in 0:18:07.000 --> 0:18:10.760 the state legislature and enacted the same law, that white 0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:14.600 people would not think themselves inferior because of it. This 0:18:14.680 --> 0:18:17.240 was the point where I had to stop reading Supreme 0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:20.679 Court rulings and take a little break. That's probably for 0:18:20.880 --> 0:18:24.760 the best in terms of your nual stability. There's a 0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:29.040 lot that's really offensive in in the whole majority opinion, 0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:31.840 and and the part where it's like this, you guys 0:18:31.840 --> 0:18:33.520 are making a big deal out of it. This is 0:18:33.560 --> 0:18:35.320 on you, not on us. That was the part that 0:18:35.359 --> 0:18:38.440 made me like, uh, yes, I feel like they haven't 0:18:38.480 --> 0:18:41.840 changed very much, because this feels like the stop playing 0:18:41.880 --> 0:18:46.199 the race card of the late nineteenth century. So the 0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:49.040 sole dissenter and all of this was John Marshall Harlan 0:18:49.480 --> 0:18:52.080 who went against the majority with so much vigor that 0:18:52.119 --> 0:18:56.280 he became known as the Great Dissenter. His dissent accurately 0:18:56.320 --> 0:18:58.840 predicted what was going to happen next, which was the 0:18:58.960 --> 0:19:01.159 States were going to you. Is this ruling as a 0:19:01.200 --> 0:19:05.200 justification to enact a whole lot more segregation laws, uh, 0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:09.199 and to be more blatantly districted, discriminatory, feeling like they 0:19:09.240 --> 0:19:11.320 had the backing of the Supreme Court in doing so. 0:19:12.080 --> 0:19:16.160 One of his statements goes like this quote, In my opinion, 0:19:16.240 --> 0:19:19.080 the judgment this day rendered will in time proved to 0:19:19.080 --> 0:19:21.879 be quite as pernicious as the decision made by this 0:19:22.000 --> 0:19:25.199 tribunal in the dread Scott case. So if you're not 0:19:25.280 --> 0:19:28.280 familiar with that one, that's dread Scott versus Sanford, when 0:19:28.359 --> 0:19:31.320 dread Scott, who was a slave, sued for his freedom, 0:19:31.359 --> 0:19:34.600 and the court decided that anyone with African ancestry, whether 0:19:34.640 --> 0:19:37.480 they were a slave or free, was not intended to 0:19:37.520 --> 0:19:40.280 be a citizen of the United States and therefore was 0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:43.159 not entitled to bring such a suit in federal court. 0:19:44.080 --> 0:19:46.720 The court also ruled that the federal government couldn't prohibit 0:19:46.760 --> 0:19:50.080 slavery in territory that it had acquired after the United 0:19:50.119 --> 0:19:55.199 States was founded. Harlan's dissent also argues strenuously against the 0:19:55.240 --> 0:19:59.280 idea that segregation was good for race relations. To quote 0:19:59.760 --> 0:20:02.479 s Exteam, millions of whites are in no danger from 0:20:02.480 --> 0:20:06.119 the presence here of eight millions of blacks. The destinies 0:20:06.119 --> 0:20:09.440 of the two races in this country are indissolubly linked together, 0:20:09.520 --> 0:20:12.640 and the interests of both require that the common government 0:20:12.720 --> 0:20:15.240 of all shall not permit the seeds of race hate 0:20:15.280 --> 0:20:18.320 to be planted under the sanction of law. What can 0:20:18.400 --> 0:20:24.399 more certainly arouse race hate, what more certainly create and 0:20:24.520 --> 0:20:29.359 perpetuate a feeling of distrust between these races than state enactments, 0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:33.080 which in fact proceed on the ground that colored citizens 0:20:33.080 --> 0:20:36.159 are so far inferior and degraded that they cannot be 0:20:36.240 --> 0:20:40.720 allowed to sit in public coaches occupied by white citizens. That, 0:20:40.920 --> 0:20:43.360 as all will admit, is the real meaning of such 0:20:43.440 --> 0:20:48.200 legislation as was enacted in Louisiana. Yeah, his whole tone 0:20:48.320 --> 0:20:51.480 is basically, Uh, it's completely obvious to everyone that the 0:20:51.520 --> 0:20:54.200 intent here is to subjugate an entire race of people, 0:20:54.800 --> 0:20:57.480 and upholding this law is going to make it so 0:20:57.560 --> 0:21:02.200 much worse. Today, us versus Ferguson is a pretty infamous 0:21:02.240 --> 0:21:04.520 and notorious Supreme Court case, but at the time it 0:21:04.600 --> 0:21:07.359 really did not make a lot of big news. The 0:21:07.440 --> 0:21:10.439 reaction of a lot of the media and of the 0:21:10.480 --> 0:21:15.480 majority as a whole was sort of well obviously um. Afterward, though, 0:21:15.640 --> 0:21:19.080 states really did begin passing more and more segregation laws, 0:21:19.680 --> 0:21:21.720 and in spite of the ruling being based on the 0:21:21.760 --> 0:21:24.600 idea that things were separate but equal, a lot of 0:21:24.600 --> 0:21:27.720 these separate facilities were not equal at all. They were 0:21:27.760 --> 0:21:31.840 often massively and deliberately inferior that from the facilities for 0:21:31.880 --> 0:21:35.359 white people, and a lot of people interpreted this ruling 0:21:35.400 --> 0:21:38.720 to mean that all discrimination and everything was legal, not 0:21:38.800 --> 0:21:41.920 just the separation of races into two separate but supposedly 0:21:41.960 --> 0:21:45.520 equal facilities. And while most of these laws were passed 0:21:45.520 --> 0:21:48.720 in the South, this was not exclusively a Southern phenomenon. 0:21:50.119 --> 0:21:52.359 Of the segregation laws in the United States were in 0:21:52.359 --> 0:21:55.399 the North, Midwest, and the West. And it also was 0:21:55.480 --> 0:21:59.320 not just about segregating African Americans. In states with sizable 0:21:59.320 --> 0:22:04.080 population of Asians, Mexicans, and Native Americans, for example, these 0:22:04.119 --> 0:22:08.920 populations were segregated from the white population as well. Since 0:22:08.920 --> 0:22:12.560 the Supreme Court had upheld the previous verdict. Homer Plessi 0:22:12.640 --> 0:22:15.720 then appeared before Judge Ferguson in Louisiana one more time 0:22:15.880 --> 0:22:20.680 on January eleven. This was to plead guilty and to 0:22:20.720 --> 0:22:23.800 pay his fine for violating the separate car law. He 0:22:23.880 --> 0:22:26.119 spent the rest of his life working as a laborer 0:22:26.160 --> 0:22:28.399 and then a clerk, and then eventually he became an 0:22:28.440 --> 0:22:32.520 insurance salesman for an African American owned insurance company. Homer 0:22:32.520 --> 0:22:37.600 Plessi died on March one. It would be almost sixty 0:22:37.680 --> 0:22:41.840 years before this decision was overturned, and we're going to 0:22:41.920 --> 0:22:45.280 talk about that, uh in another episode, and then in 0:22:45.320 --> 0:22:47.439 another episode after that, we're going to talk about what 0:22:47.480 --> 0:22:56.200 happened after it was overturned. Thanks so much for joining 0:22:56.280 --> 0:22:59.040 us on this Saturday. Since this episode is out of 0:22:59.040 --> 0:23:01.000 the archive, if you heard an email address or a 0:23:01.040 --> 0:23:03.440 Facebook U r L or something similar over the course 0:23:03.440 --> 0:23:06.720 of the show, that could be obsolete now. 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