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Speaker 1: Hey, John, you're under arrest. Oh no, don't do it.

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Speaker 1: I'm an og okay start time podcast host. I don't care.

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Speaker 1: I'm making sure that you stay here for the next

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Speaker 1: two minutes.

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Speaker 2: All right, I'll be detained for the two more minutes

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Speaker 2: before we get into this episode.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we got some ads coming up, so stick around.

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Speaker 1: Stick around. I'm not gay, but I am in love

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Speaker 1: with my roommate.

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Speaker 4: That's a big subject. There's lots of kinds of love.

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Speaker 1: That's right. I'm sure I'm not gay, but I really

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Speaker 1: love my roommate from college. He's nineteen mail and has

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Speaker 1: been my closest friend even though we've only been roommates

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Speaker 1: for two years, and I genuinely think he's one of

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Speaker 1: the greatest guys in the world. By the way, this

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Speaker 1: comes from Outrageous author ninety eight, and if you want

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Speaker 1: to spit your own stories, go to the r slash

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Speaker 1: okay storytime subreddit. I'm Riley and I'm I Leen.

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Speaker 3: I'm Keon.

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Speaker 2: We have a very special guest here, doctor Eileen Krems,

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Speaker 2: who is a licensed therapist based in Los Angeles who

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Speaker 2: helps people break through what's blocking their happiness. She greats

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Speaker 2: a safe, supportive space and uses his approaches like dialectical

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Speaker 2: dialectrical behavioral therapy, cognitive behavioral therapy, and spiritual psychology to

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Speaker 2: helping individuals and couples work through anxiety, depression, and relationship

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Speaker 2: issues with personality s orders. Her goal is simple help

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Speaker 2: clients build self worth, clarity, and a life that actually

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Speaker 2: feels good to live. Thank you so much for being here, Eileen.

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Speaker 4: Oh, it's a pleasure. Thank you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: We were super stoked and everyone's it's gonna be so great.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, yeah. Whenever we had our talk or

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Speaker 1: onboarding call, when was it like.

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Speaker 4: Two weeks or two weeks ago? I thank you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we were chopping it up. It was. It was amazing.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, that's great.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, we're here to give good advice. Gooofully,

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Speaker 1: but we brought a professional in. She knows what she's

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Speaker 1: talking about. We don't. But if you guys have anything

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Speaker 1: to add, please add it down below. And Op continues.

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Speaker 1: He's gay and recently came out to me around April,

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Speaker 1: and ever since then, I've thought about him differently. He's

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Speaker 1: such a good guy that I'm honestly surprised he's not

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Speaker 1: taken yet. He's kind loving, and he has two cats

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Speaker 1: from his home JJ and I think this is kon

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Speaker 1: or keon is.

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Speaker 3: That is a keon? Wow, I'm a cat.

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Speaker 1: Oh you're in the story.

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Speaker 3: That's a first.

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Speaker 1: Who are absolutely adorable. He's also very understanding and a

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Speaker 1: bit of an overthinker. One time we had an accident

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Speaker 1: in the bathroom and I was accidentally unclothed in front

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Speaker 1: of him. Oh my gosh. And he kept apologizing the

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Speaker 1: whole time, throughout the whole day, even though I told

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Speaker 1: him it was okay, So real quick, what do you

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Speaker 1: kind of sense in here? What are you getting?

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Speaker 4: This? One's pretty interesting? Well, number one, your generation, for example,

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Speaker 4: they're a lot more open, which is great about it's

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Speaker 4: not just one kind of love but two kinds of love,

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Speaker 4: like you guys are open to in general, to lots

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Speaker 4: of other concepts. And I do think that it's great

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Speaker 4: that he's talking about it. And I do think that

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Speaker 4: unlike the original soulmate term one man and one woman forever,

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Speaker 4: I think we can have different kinds of soulmates that

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Speaker 4: are not necessarily all romantic, but more sort of in

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Speaker 4: the same sort of earth class, so to speak, which

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Speaker 4: gets a little metaphysical, but you know, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Like there like a friendship like soulmate kind of thing,

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Speaker 1: and like.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, and there can be multiple friendships, multiple even

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Speaker 4: romantic soulmates. It's not I know, it's like not the

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Speaker 4: most popular thing, but it's not just one necessarily. There

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Speaker 4: can be like the one best experience you've had, preferential experience,

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Speaker 4: but it's not necessarily one. And so you know, like

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Speaker 4: I said, it hasn't been talked about as much in

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Speaker 4: previous generations, but I'm glad it's being talked about now.

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Speaker 1: We make like a new like sexuality every other day. Yeah, I.

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Speaker 4: Keep up with a few of my clients. No, pan,

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Speaker 4: I'm super sexual. I'm this, I'm that.

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Speaker 1: You know we're creative.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you're creative, which is great.

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Speaker 1: He is just that genuine. He's also very handsome, not

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Speaker 1: like Henry cavill or Ron Reynolds handsome, more like that

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Speaker 1: Charlie from a Netflix show, Charlie. That makes no sense.

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Speaker 2: I look up a Charlie. Maybe it's Charlie Cox.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, we're both where everyone's confused here. Let

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Speaker 1: us know if you know who this is. His body

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Speaker 1: is lean and told, and sometimes I catch myself looking

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Speaker 1: at him when he takes his shirt off and after

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Speaker 1: our workouts sometimes because he's too sweaty. He also has

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Speaker 1: this stutter when he gets extremely nervous. I know I

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Speaker 1: shouldn't find it cute, but I really do. And before

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Speaker 1: anyone says anything, I'm sure I'm not gay since I

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Speaker 1: had a girlfriend before and we even broke up before him.

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Speaker 1: I've also only been interested in him and haven't been

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Speaker 1: turned on by any other guy besides him. What do

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Speaker 1: you guys think?

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Speaker 4: Well again, I mean I do think That's where I

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Speaker 4: understand that op is Is doesn't believe he's gay, which

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Speaker 4: obviously may be very well true because he had a

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Speaker 4: girlfriend before, he did have a girlfriend before. All of

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Speaker 4: that doesn't rule out that he could be attracted and

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Speaker 4: I'm not This isn't my final word on this, He's

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Speaker 4: not going in that direction too much, but that he

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Speaker 4: may not be have an ability to be tracted to

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Speaker 4: both genders on sort of a sliding scale. Well more women,

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Speaker 4: but once in a while there's a guy. Or it

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Speaker 4: could be what I was saying earlier, there's just such

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Speaker 4: a depth of mental slash emotional connection. I mean, I

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Speaker 4: once had this comes to minds. I'll just say I

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Speaker 4: had a really lovely woman in my practice who was

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Speaker 4: a former Playboy model.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 4: She was the produced woman I've ever seen in person.

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Speaker 4: And then I'm taking her intake, like on the first visit,

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Speaker 4: and I'm thinking, wow, she looks about twenty five. She

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Speaker 4: sounds so mature. If she's thirty seven, I'm like, wow, Wow,

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Speaker 4: it's just like a beauty swimsuit model. Actually, and I realized,

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Speaker 4: but because at least in this lifetime, I seem to

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Speaker 4: be exclusively head her sexual this time around, I noticed that,

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Speaker 4: Oh this is interesting. I don't want to touch her,

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Speaker 4: but I would like to be her physically. I'd like

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Speaker 4: to look like that. And I'm so wondering with your questioner,

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Speaker 4: if feel any desire to touch, even if it's not

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Speaker 4: full on sexual conduct, that would be one thing I'd want.

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Speaker 1: To ask, Do you want to touch? You just want

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Speaker 1: to look?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: What if they want to smell?

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Speaker 4: Well, yeah, that gets a little closer. But it's not

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Speaker 4: necessarily you know what I mean. It's not necessarily. But

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Speaker 4: like I said, it always stuck in my mind because

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Speaker 4: not that I was doubting, because like I said, that

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Speaker 4: just isn't my journey this time around. But although some

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Speaker 4: of my girlfriends say I'd rather be because they've had

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Speaker 4: guy trouble, but it's just like this, and it has

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Speaker 4: been with a you know, attractive people. It's like, well,

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Speaker 4: I'd really like to look like them. But that's about it. However,

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Speaker 4: there's these other elements because he feels so connected and

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Speaker 4: it's so appreciative of the kind personality of his roommate

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Speaker 4: or roommate. I think that would be something that would

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Speaker 4: be better. It would be good if he could explore

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Speaker 4: that a little with a therapist doesn't mean he has

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Speaker 4: to go to therapy forever or anything like that because

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Speaker 4: some people are like, oh, you know, how much time

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Speaker 4: of money is this going to cost me? And do

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Speaker 4: I have health insurance? But just kind of ask these

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Speaker 4: questions to himself to kind of know where he's.

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Speaker 1: At, where he's leaning towards. Yeah, so we have an update. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I know it's been about five days, but here's a

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Speaker 1: bit of an update on my relationship with him. I'm

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Speaker 1: kind of excited, so I'm sorry if this update is messy. First,

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Speaker 1: I want to openly say that he is hotter than

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Speaker 1: Ryan Reynolds and Henry cavill. Okay, he told me we

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Speaker 1: had to deal with that first and foremost. Oh so

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Speaker 1: he knows about the post. Oh oh interesting.

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Speaker 2: He probably maybe calls him out. It's like, dude, you're

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Speaker 2: more attractive than so and so.

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Speaker 1: Oh he's also taller than me. He's six y two

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Speaker 1: and I'm five to ten Asian gens. He joked that

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Speaker 1: I made him sound like an lou cutesy boy. You

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Speaker 1: have any idea what that means?

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 1: Good, good.

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Speaker 3: You don't need to that one. You don't need enough.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like a cringe thing. Our generation is made up.

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Speaker 1: It's He didn't really mind it. It was just mostly funny.

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Speaker 1: He also asked why straight with air quotes dudes always

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Speaker 1: bring up Ryan at Reynolds or Heinry Cavell as the

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Speaker 1: hottest guys they know. I think he said that to

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Speaker 1: calm me down during my breakdown, which I'll get to

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Speaker 1: in a second second. He told me I should write

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Speaker 1: better because of the post. Look jumble. He joked that

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Speaker 1: I should probably go to therapy and check if I

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Speaker 1: have ADHD and he laughed so hard after rereading it.

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Speaker 1: He pointed out that I talked about his cats first,

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Speaker 1: and then about the bathroom accident, which we both promised

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Speaker 1: not to talk about anymore. He got jokingly mad about

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Speaker 1: that or maybe actually mad. Sorry, dude. Third, he corrected

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Speaker 1: me by saying, it's not a drag show, it's the

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Speaker 1: drag show. I also was wrong about the tickets, since

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Speaker 1: it wasn't a concert but a show at a bar. Wait,

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Speaker 1: do we talk about drugs? Yeah, not quick, It's probably.

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Speaker 4: Probably something inside, maybe a different message.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's probably Or he might have thought he

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Speaker 1: told you is adhd Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's I thought

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Speaker 1: all drag shows were like that because the first one

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Speaker 1: we went to was similar. Now back to the real update. Okay,

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Speaker 1: after our midterms, we went to a bar last Friday

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Speaker 1: and the drag show started. I was scary because he

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Speaker 1: left me alone at the gay Barkay, there's nothing wrong

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Speaker 1: with that. I'm just an awkward person and don't really

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Speaker 1: like being alone in public spaces, especially around strangers and keon,

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Speaker 1: what is a vibe of a gay bar? I've never

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Speaker 1: been before?

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Speaker 3: You ever been? No, it's really fun.

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Speaker 1: I don't I don't drink.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, very fair.

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Speaker 4: I mean I had Back in the day. There were

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Speaker 4: male gay bars. Yeah, but I used I love to dance.

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Speaker 4: I used to teach dis go dance in my youth.

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Speaker 3: Oh look at you, I know, I know.

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Speaker 4: It was like one of the most fun times in

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Speaker 4: my life. I was twenty. Those bars are they're really fun.

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Speaker 4: I mean, people feel like, at least my experience of

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Speaker 4: them back in the day, the guys seemed like they could,

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Speaker 4: you know, straight up be themselves. I know things are

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Speaker 4: more liberal now, but there's still problems in today's world,

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Speaker 4: but back then it was not quite as accepted outside

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Speaker 4: the walls, so that it was less accepted than today.

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Speaker 4: Not that it's fully accepted at all today, and it

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Speaker 4: should be, but that's another topic. But anyway, it was

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Speaker 4: a lot of fun if you were pretty jubilant and

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Speaker 4: having fun and putting, having drinks, stone, a little bit

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Speaker 4: of poppers, all that stuff that was popular.

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Speaker 3: Back still is these days.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, yeah, context, I am a straight mail, but

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Speaker 2: I have a lot of friends who love to go

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Speaker 2: to the gay bars that you know, Yeah, when I

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Speaker 2: get to go because I'm a straight mail and everyone

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Speaker 2: can tell that. You know, I like to dance to

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Speaker 2: you and have fun, but I'm not going to be

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Speaker 2: touching or you know, flirting with anyone.

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Speaker 3: I have good fun.

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Speaker 2: I love it because I get to get my drinks first,

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Speaker 2: because the bartenders you're like, flirt with me or something

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Speaker 2: like that, or somebody buys me a drink, and it's

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Speaker 2: always like WHOA, that's different. I feel like Riley would

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Speaker 2: love the vibes because it's more welcoming and more more fun.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's very playful.

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Speaker 4: It's like there were certain songs, you know, not to

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Speaker 4: get too far afield, but back then that like that

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Speaker 4: gay community would co opt. Like you're probably too young

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Speaker 4: to know who Grace Jones is, no, or maybe not anyway,

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Speaker 4: but she was very popular disco singer and she had

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Speaker 4: a big hit called I Need a Man, and songs

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Speaker 4: like that or Scraming Men by the Weather Girls. Everyone

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Speaker 4: would get up and just it was like it was

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Speaker 4: just really joyful.

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Speaker 1: O fun. Yeah, okay, so don't worry about the gay bar.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like it's gonna be a great time.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I probably looked like a lost puppy in there. He

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Speaker 1: told me to stay in one of the front seats

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Speaker 1: and then the surprise happened. It wasn't a drag show.

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Speaker 2: It was his Oh wow, okay it was it was

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Speaker 2: his roommates drag show.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. The guy that he was talking to, he's in

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Speaker 1: the drag show.

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Speaker 3: He's the one who's doing drag.

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Speaker 1: He's making it happen. Oh my gosh, it was so hot.

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Speaker 1: He did a burless burlesque French thing. I'll just call

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Speaker 1: it stripping. It was insanely hot and I was turned

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Speaker 1: on so badly. We should have had Andrew read this one.

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Speaker 1: What was I thinking? My girlfriend loves drag shows.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, i'd love her. It can be fun. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I kept wondering when he prepared it, how much efforty

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Speaker 1: went into it, and why he chose to do it

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Speaker 1: during our midterms. Yeah, because during midterms, you got I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't have time to choreograph for like, oh, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: dance or anything. After that, we went home to celebrate

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Speaker 1: finishing our exams. I got really wasted. Since I'm a lightweight.

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Speaker 1: I felt butterflies in my stomach, which turned into me

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Speaker 1: puking on him. Oh luckily we were already back in

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Speaker 1: the dorm. He cleaned it up and led me to

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Speaker 1: the bathroom while I kept apologizing. I don't remember most

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Speaker 1: said what happened next, so this is from his side.

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Speaker 1: He told me that while I was puking and apologizing,

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Speaker 1: I accidentally confessed my feelings. Okay, Apparently I said something

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Speaker 1: like I'm sorry for having feelings for you. After that,

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Speaker 1: he helped me change clothes and we slept on the

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Speaker 1: same bed the whole night. He said, I was dramatically

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Speaker 1: begging him to sleep next to me. While I was sleeping,

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Speaker 1: I kept whispering the same thing. I woke up using

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Speaker 1: his chest as a pillow, and oh gosh, it was soft.

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Speaker 4: Okay.

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Speaker 1: I didn't want to move, partly because I was extremely hungover.

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Speaker 1: I promised myself I would tell him everything after the show,

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Speaker 1: just not win exactly. I spent the whole day overthinking

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Speaker 1: and couldn't even eat with him properly. That night, I

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Speaker 1: finally broke down and told him everything. M okay. I

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Speaker 1: cried like a kid, even though I'm supposed to be

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Speaker 1: the older one. He tried to calm me down, but

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Speaker 1: his kindness only made it harder to breathe. I cried more.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't put my feelings into words, so I gave

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Speaker 1: him my phone and showed him the post through two accounts.

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Speaker 1: He started crying and hugged me. He said, we should

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Speaker 1: give each other some space to calm down. So what

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Speaker 1: he said was he remember the first like update, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he showed him that. All right, okay, is this smart

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Speaker 1: giving each other space for this?

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Speaker 4: It depends how long we're talking about. I think, like

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Speaker 4: a few days to think about your feelings. I think

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Speaker 4: is great. You don't want to like go weeks or months.

295
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Speaker 4: It's pretty delicate, especially with their strong friendship. And again

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Speaker 4: this you know, even though, like I said, things are

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Speaker 4: out in the open more these days. Even when I

298
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Speaker 4: was back in the psychology school in the nineties, there's

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Speaker 4: a lot of people have heard of this Kinsey score,

300
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Speaker 4: like where one it was a zero to seven. I think,

301
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Speaker 4: like I forget which way the numbers work, but one

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Speaker 4: way is your purely headerosexual? Seven you're purely homosexual. But

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Speaker 4: there is a spectrum for most people, not everyone, though,

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Speaker 4: and so I think the ops probably maybe somewhere on

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Speaker 4: the spectrum. And it does bring up things because even

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Speaker 4: though we're in quote modern times and we're in you know, well,

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Speaker 4: if he's in la I don't know where he is

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Speaker 4: you get people from, well, if he's in a more

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Speaker 4: accepting kind of place. It's still a hard road. There's

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Speaker 4: still a lot of prejudice. There's still I mean, my

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00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:35,320
Speaker 4: best friend in La Angelou is gay and I'm straight.

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Speaker 4: He does not. I mean, he's like, this is who

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Speaker 4: I am and it's pretty much always been that way.

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Speaker 4: And he's you know, he's a few years younger than me.

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Speaker 4: We talk about we have a deep love for each other.

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Speaker 4: It's just not sexual because he's uninterested in women. Now,

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Speaker 4: if he was, you know, another story. But he's cute.

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Speaker 4: But it's okay because I'm going to phase my life

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Speaker 4: where what counts right now is like the heart connection

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Speaker 4: and more than anything. You know, if I was your age,

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Speaker 4: probably would have been a little more challenging to handle that.

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Speaker 4: But you know, at this point I've settled down at

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Speaker 4: more so in my hormones. So but it is very

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Speaker 4: loving and it is very sweet. It doesn't make him

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Speaker 4: doubt a sexuality. Well, of course, just make me downt

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Speaker 4: mind because I just always happened to like men that way.

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Speaker 4: But again, there's so many forms of connection, and so

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Speaker 4: there's a lot of concerns here because the world in

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Speaker 4: general is not as accepting as it could be. I mean,

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Speaker 4: I like, you know, get excited when I see that

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Speaker 4: that straight men can be cool with gay men. But

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Speaker 4: I have not seen as much of that when I

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Speaker 4: was your ape.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, growing up, that must have been totally different thing.

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Speaker 4: No, it's like, no, ye's nothing my brother would be

336
00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:52,560
Speaker 4: and he's he's strictly heterosexual. But there was like a paranoia.

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Speaker 4: He's like someone gave him a shirt for his birthday.

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Speaker 4: He goes, I'm not wearing a pink shirt. You know.

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Speaker 4: It was like that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 4: But what complicates did I think the most is just

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Speaker 4: that because there's still these prejudicial echoes. If there weren't,

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Speaker 4: I think he might, and it's not his fault that

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Speaker 4: there aren't, you know, have been more open to being

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Speaker 4: just like, oh maybe I'm a little on the spectacle,

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Speaker 4: see how this works out. I think. So. Some of

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Speaker 4: the fear may be that I don't know his background,

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Speaker 4: where he grew up, if there are any religious messages,

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Speaker 4: which right there is.

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Speaker 1: A whole thing seep kind of holding back a little bit.

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Speaker 2: Yeah oh yeah, yeah, he's having like a crisis per

352
00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:30,960
Speaker 2: se like do like I don't like boys, but I

353
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:34,440
Speaker 2: really like him. I really like him and like, I'm confused,

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Speaker 2: do I want to do this?

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Speaker 3: Do I want to you know?

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Speaker 2: I also with the fine line of if I do

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Speaker 2: this will dismiss up the friendship.

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Speaker 4: That's a very good point. His friend knowing that op,

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Speaker 4: he hasn't done this, he would have to understand that

360
00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:50,200
Speaker 4: if they do get together, it's not a done deal

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Speaker 4: that they're going to be a couple or anything like that,

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Speaker 4: because he hasn't had a chance to explore this if

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Speaker 4: he chooses to.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I was gonna say, I wonder where the friendship

365
00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:00,360
Speaker 1: is going to look like. Yeah, I did see a

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Speaker 1: comment right there. Stormkin says, I thought I was super

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Speaker 1: gay till I met my husband. Then I realized I

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Speaker 1: like women and very specific men.

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Speaker 4: I think a lot of it is we like it's

370
00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:13,600
Speaker 4: getting better, but just our human nature, I think we

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Speaker 4: kind of like some black and white like okay, this

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Speaker 4: is this, this is that, this is who I am,

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Speaker 4: what I do, and we don't like being kind of

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Speaker 4: in the hallways of change, and so that doesn't make

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Speaker 4: it easier. Just for most of us human nature we

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Speaker 4: want to definely.

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Speaker 1: That's why I like math growing up English. What do

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00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:32,520
Speaker 1: you mean there could be more than one theme. What

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00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:33,919
Speaker 1: do you mean I thought I was?

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00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:36,879
Speaker 4: I was and I was the opposite. Really, yeah, probably

381
00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:38,840
Speaker 4: because I was just better at English than math. Like

382
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:40,440
Speaker 4: I heard it. I saw a great bit on The

383
00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:43,840
Speaker 4: Daily Show if you watch that, where Ronnie Chang was joking,

384
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Speaker 4: you know, as a kid trying to get out of

385
00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:48,960
Speaker 4: doing homework in high school. And he goes and my

386
00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:50,720
Speaker 4: parents are really strict, and I'd be, why do you

387
00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:53,600
Speaker 4: want me to study algebra? I mean, this is identifies

388
00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:56,760
Speaker 4: as a number ana letter. Like that's gay, you know,

389
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Speaker 4: Like I mean, we want the definitive ope news.

390
00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:02,320
Speaker 1: I went to the living room and I think he

391
00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:06,280
Speaker 1: reread the post. I panicked because he looked anxious and quiet,

392
00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:08,520
Speaker 1: so I ran to the bathroom to call myself. I

393
00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:10,800
Speaker 1: calmed down and we talked again. I told him I

394
00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:13,280
Speaker 1: loved every part of him. When both he and my

395
00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:15,919
Speaker 1: best friend came out to me, it made me question

396
00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:21,600
Speaker 1: my spicy proclivity. I started developing feelings for him and

397
00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:24,880
Speaker 1: loving every single detail about him. I thought I might

398
00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:28,560
Speaker 1: be gay or by, but I've only ever dated and

399
00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:31,760
Speaker 1: hooked up with women. I even tried watching gay corn,

400
00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:36,600
Speaker 1: but it did absolutely nothing for me. Yeah, that made

401
00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:39,480
Speaker 1: me realize I'm not into men in general. I'm into

402
00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:44,040
Speaker 1: him specifically. Going back to the touch test, Yeah, I

403
00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:46,560
Speaker 1: also came from a traditional family. Okay, here we go.

404
00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:51,040
Speaker 1: I'm not exactly a closet guard, but not very open

405
00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:53,560
Speaker 1: minded either. I told him that I was scared of

406
00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:56,320
Speaker 1: making him take a risk on me, on someone who

407
00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:58,639
Speaker 1: might still be confused and hurt him. In the end,

408
00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:01,800
Speaker 1: he hugged me again and started dressing things. Said he

409
00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:04,480
Speaker 1: didn't blame me for what happened at the frat house.

410
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:07,080
Speaker 1: I wasn't the one to beat up our friend. I

411
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:09,399
Speaker 1: was the one who crossed boundaries, and I wasn't the

412
00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:11,520
Speaker 1: one who sent him to the hospital. Okay, what are

413
00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:12,640
Speaker 1: we talking about again?

414
00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:14,800
Speaker 2: Back to Op's writing is just very adhd.

415
00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:20,119
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I'm lost on that. So that's where I

416
00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:22,159
Speaker 4: would have to be. If he was like a client

417
00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:24,480
Speaker 4: of mine, I would, you know, be like, okay, wait

418
00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:25,720
Speaker 4: a minute, let me get this straight.

419
00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:27,840
Speaker 1: What fight?

420
00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:28,640
Speaker 4: What fight?

421
00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:32,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was grateful that I defended him and could help. However,

422
00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:37,119
Speaker 1: I'm this is just my assumption. He probably defended his

423
00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:39,520
Speaker 1: friend because one other guy was like, oh you gay.

424
00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:43,760
Speaker 1: Then came the hard part. He said he likes me,

425
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:47,280
Speaker 1: but he's scared because this has happened to him before.

426
00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:50,119
Speaker 1: A straight guy fell for him, let him on for

427
00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:53,440
Speaker 1: five months, then left. He understands being confused about your

428
00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:58,080
Speaker 1: spicy procliberty, but he doesn't want to get seriously hurt again.

429
00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:00,920
Speaker 1: He agreed that I needed to understand myself first. He

430
00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:04,119
Speaker 1: rejected me, but he also gave me an ultimatum. We're

431
00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:08,120
Speaker 1: not officially together. We are in a trial period. See,

432
00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:11,040
Speaker 1: this is just us getting creative again. Yeah, we can

433
00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:14,359
Speaker 1: go on dates, have spicy sleep, and be monogamous, but

434
00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:17,280
Speaker 1: we are not labeling it yet. He's going home for

435
00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:20,240
Speaker 1: Thanksgiving and during that time, I'm supposed to learn more

436
00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:23,399
Speaker 1: about myself. After a month, we'll see if we're both ready.

437
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:25,120
Speaker 1: How do you feel about this plan?

438
00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:27,760
Speaker 4: I think it's a way for him and I guess

439
00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:31,879
Speaker 4: his friend who safely as possible. I mean, people do

440
00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:35,760
Speaker 4: get hurt. Try it out, see what happens. I think

441
00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:38,760
Speaker 4: it's better that he tries but doesn't try. And the

442
00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:41,800
Speaker 4: therapist in me is wanting to say, hey, you know,

443
00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:45,280
Speaker 4: maybe you should do a little counseling during this confusing period.

444
00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:47,360
Speaker 4: I mean, I know all therapist say it, but it's

445
00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:49,439
Speaker 4: because we believe in it. It's not just what we

446
00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:50,720
Speaker 4: want to get business.

447
00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:53,200
Speaker 1: You know, because like I'm seeing his emotions feel this way.

448
00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:56,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, there, it doesn't sound probably like his family support

449
00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:59,679
Speaker 4: would be there. I'm a little bit of a picture

450
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:00,480
Speaker 4: that he painted.

451
00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:05,080
Speaker 1: Only emotional support is someone he's having this confusing relationship

452
00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:05,960
Speaker 1: with you exactly.

453
00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:09,480
Speaker 4: So that's why, you know, when detractors of therapy say,

454
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,600
Speaker 4: like I can just talk to my friends, like it

455
00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:14,760
Speaker 4: is different. Like you know, number one, therapists are trained

456
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,680
Speaker 4: and trained and trained. It's a lot of study. We're

457
00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:21,280
Speaker 4: only invested in their well being. So there's new. Oh well,

458
00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:23,280
Speaker 4: I'd like to be friends with them. So I'll agree

459
00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:25,800
Speaker 4: with this even though you know it's pure. I mean,

460
00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:29,200
Speaker 4: with any decent therapists, which are most therapists, it's pure

461
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:31,639
Speaker 4: and it's educated. You know. I don't know if he

462
00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:34,200
Speaker 4: I know, like finances get in the way and other things,

463
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:36,320
Speaker 4: but if he has any way to do it, it

464
00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:37,200
Speaker 4: would be a great thing.

465
00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:40,679
Speaker 1: Get all those emotional dug center row here. Yeah, what

466
00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:41,959
Speaker 1: do you think about this key on? You? Like this

467
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:42,640
Speaker 1: little test.

468
00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:44,800
Speaker 2: Here, And like I said, it's it's good that you

469
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,920
Speaker 2: I mean, it's such a conflict for OP to really

470
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,119
Speaker 2: what do I want? Kind of thing? Obviously seems like

471
00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:54,639
Speaker 2: he wants him, but it's also what will happen if

472
00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:57,640
Speaker 2: things go south? Will that friendship be normal again?

473
00:21:57,800 --> 00:21:58,600
Speaker 1: M Am I?

474
00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:01,639
Speaker 2: By am I? I could Tom's still gonna be attracted

475
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,000
Speaker 2: to him. What's gonna happen? There's a lot of what ifs?

476
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,960
Speaker 2: But I mean I always say, you know, that's a

477
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,159
Speaker 2: that's relationships, that's love. It's a leap of faith. You

478
00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:13,920
Speaker 2: gotta try before. If you don't try, then it's gonna

479
00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:15,000
Speaker 2: be just tearing him up inside.

480
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:16,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, I agree with that.

481
00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:19,880
Speaker 1: Kimberly Faan says this dude has already converted more men

482
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:26,160
Speaker 1: than any Yeah. Another comment, if you want to scroll

483
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:28,920
Speaker 1: up just to touch Op. He's attracted to this guy

484
00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:32,240
Speaker 1: and only this guy, thinking face emoji OP on a

485
00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:36,040
Speaker 1: test trial. Yeah, since then, things have changed a lot.

486
00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:39,040
Speaker 1: He's very touchy when we're alone. He gave me a

487
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:40,320
Speaker 1: footsie during.

488
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:43,280
Speaker 2: Do you a marienda or what is that? Okay, I'm

489
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:44,639
Speaker 2: gonna you don't know what foot he is.

490
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:46,080
Speaker 1: I know what a foots he is. We do that

491
00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:46,520
Speaker 1: all the time.

492
00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:49,119
Speaker 2: Aileen, do you know what FSI is not I'm not sure.

493
00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:49,800
Speaker 3: I think it has it.

494
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:51,320
Speaker 2: I think has a change, but it's still just playing

495
00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:53,119
Speaker 2: with your feet. Oh okay, I know, like but like

496
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:54,880
Speaker 2: flirting with like you know how you like hold hands

497
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:56,640
Speaker 2: and like flirting with your hands. It's just with your feet,

498
00:22:57,240 --> 00:22:59,560
Speaker 2: Marienda is like a snack, Like it's like a like

499
00:22:59,600 --> 00:22:59,920
Speaker 2: a break.

500
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:01,320
Speaker 3: Okay, I don't know.

501
00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:04,800
Speaker 2: This seems very playful, very casual in my sense, you know,

502
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:06,320
Speaker 2: and sometimes you.

503
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,680
Speaker 4: Know in terms of you know, the Op's friend doesn't

504
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:13,880
Speaker 4: want to be hurt, but sometimes that does happen as

505
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:17,160
Speaker 4: somebody is not quite sure where they're at and exploring

506
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:22,560
Speaker 4: their own sexuality. And since Opie's friend knows that that

507
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:25,200
Speaker 4: is helpful, I mean, easier said than done. But if

508
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:27,480
Speaker 4: he can hold it in his mind that he's being

509
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:30,680
Speaker 4: honest with me, he doesn't know if I feel I'm

510
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:34,199
Speaker 4: emotionally able to take this risk myself, because what if

511
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:37,639
Speaker 4: I start to fall in love, then I'd be willing

512
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:41,840
Speaker 4: to maybe risk that chance, especially because we are so connected.

513
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,879
Speaker 4: But not everyone is prepared to take that kind of

514
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:47,280
Speaker 4: chance if they feel their their own heart's going to

515
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 4: break and he's got to look out for that. True,

516
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:52,679
Speaker 4: but that's the yes, but that's the responsibility of the

517
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:56,240
Speaker 4: ope's friend as long as the op is honest up front.

518
00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:56,920
Speaker 1: That's a good point.

519
00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,680
Speaker 2: Marian does like a little little snack. Where where do

520
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:01,959
Speaker 2: they It's like going to lunch, like brunch.

521
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:04,000
Speaker 1: We got a I got a new meal of the

522
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,040
Speaker 1: day here. I didn't know that was a thing. Yeah, okay,

523
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:07,920
Speaker 1: that makes me mad? Why did? Why am I now

524
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 1: just learning about mariando? That's interesting?

525
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:12,040
Speaker 2: Okay, Bradley, you do marianda every day.

526
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:12,639
Speaker 1: You just don't know it.

527
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 4: I don't know what that word means either.

528
00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 3: It's just it's just like snack time.

529
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,200
Speaker 4: Oh oh, like just foods that kind yeah.

530
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:20,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, okay, nothing nothing like that. It's just.

531
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:26,560
Speaker 1: He whispers dirty things to me and calls me boy

532
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,760
Speaker 1: in a way that absolutely messes me up. He also does.

533
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:31,720
Speaker 3: That cabaon cabaon thing.

534
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:35,359
Speaker 2: It's when you say, boy, why do I know these things?

535
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 2: When you put you pin someone against the wall playfully?

536
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:39,800
Speaker 1: Okay, I don't know as much slang as I thought

537
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:43,440
Speaker 1: I did. Yeah, I mean neither. We're learning things together here, Yeah,

538
00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:46,160
Speaker 1: me too. You know these things? You're teacher?

539
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:46,719
Speaker 4: Now?

540
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:50,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, is there something you want to tell I know people. Okay,

541
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 1: all right, I did the cawed on thing and I

542
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:56,120
Speaker 1: hate tall people for that reason. Still respectful, but dang,

543
00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 1: he really knows what he's doing. We hooked up to

544
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,639
Speaker 1: see if I'd actually like it and I Afterwards, we

545
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 1: ate dinner outside and he wasn't touchy at all in public.

546
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:06,720
Speaker 1: He respects that I just came out and doesn't want

547
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:09,640
Speaker 1: to show affection publicly. Yet. He even wants to take

548
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 1: me on a train museum because he knows I love them,

549
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,800
Speaker 1: and we're planning to go to amusement park together even

550
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:19,720
Speaker 1: if we're not official yet. I'm really happy about this. Okay, tomorrow,

551
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:23,480
Speaker 1: he's forcing me to watch all of Heart Stopper season one.

552
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,160
Speaker 1: In every gay series out there, ah.

553
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:27,480
Speaker 3: He did rival Rea shout at that show.

554
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:28,720
Speaker 4: I've heard about that one.

555
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:30,440
Speaker 3: That's the hot that's the really hot one.

556
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 4: Right now it seems to be I want to see it.

557
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 1: I've heard, I've heard things while I made him to

558
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 1: agree to watch Marvel movies with me on other days.

559
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:42,879
Speaker 1: As for my spicy preference, I still want a label,

560
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,399
Speaker 1: but I don't think it matters right now. I just

561
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:47,439
Speaker 1: want to make sure my feelings are real and that

562
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:49,879
Speaker 1: I'm sure of myself. He's not pressuring me. He just

563
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:52,440
Speaker 1: wants me to figure things out. We have an update

564
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:54,719
Speaker 1: two months later here in a second.

565
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 4: Wow, Okay, how do you.

566
00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 1: Feel about this? This feels pretty healthy, I would say.

567
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 4: I would say so. I think for the most part,

568
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 4: they're handling it to the best of their ability in

569
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 4: a fairly healthy way, depending on the amount of uncertainty

570
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:12,159
Speaker 4: they can both tolerate. Especially I'm thinking ope, you know,

571
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:16,320
Speaker 4: outside of the therapist go to maybe she talks to somebody,

572
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 4: but otherwise, but other than that, which he may not

573
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 4: feel the need to do, I think they are handling

574
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 4: it well. The more the story unfolds, the more I

575
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 4: feel like he's somewhere on that spectrum.

576
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:30,399
Speaker 1: You know, probably concerns that are sticking out or like

577
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 1: red flags or something like that might not work.

578
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,119
Speaker 4: My only concern that's coming to mind is a I

579
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,680
Speaker 4: mentioned earlier, is that because this is not something that

580
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:44,160
Speaker 4: is still one hundred percent accepted in society, it might

581
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 4: be holding him back. Okay, which is just something that

582
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:53,680
Speaker 4: unfortunately does happen. But he's open enough because he really

583
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:57,400
Speaker 4: cares about this person to explore And did you say

584
00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:00,639
Speaker 4: originally he was like nineteen, I could check it out. Yeah, young,

585
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:04,160
Speaker 4: I mean he was doing school so in college, in college,

586
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 4: so of course he wants to know. We all like, again,

587
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,359
Speaker 4: we want those labels, but at an age where you know,

588
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 4: he could have had a very long time to figure

589
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 4: this out, and he may. You know, they used to

590
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:17,440
Speaker 4: joke back in the day that, oh, bisexuals, they're lying.

591
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 4: If they say they're bisexual, they're gay. But that's not true.

592
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,159
Speaker 4: There are people that are bisexual, and he may be

593
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 4: one of those, depending how it went with his ex

594
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 4: girlfriend or so forth.

595
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,920
Speaker 2: It's the good old Oh I like vanilla more than chocolate,

596
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 2: or I like chocolate more than vanilla, and people are

597
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:33,440
Speaker 2: just like I like both.

598
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 4: And then it gives you choice, the choices.

599
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:39,400
Speaker 1: So it's like, so here's the update. We're engaged. Oh

600
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 1: just kidding. Aha, do they do this all the time.

601
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 4: We're like, oh my god, yeah, okay.

602
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:51,240
Speaker 1: Okay, we're officially dating nice. Dating him, even low key

603
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 1: has been so much fun. I told my closest friends

604
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:56,399
Speaker 1: and it turns out they already knew.

605
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, that makes sense.

606
00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 2: You guys are always touchy, touchy, you know, handhold kissing.

607
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:02,840
Speaker 3: M hmmm, I think you guys are dating.

608
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 1: I think the most gay thing they've done here is

609
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:08,120
Speaker 1: going to what was that, Miranda.

610
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 2: Think, No, a sudden, The Marianda is just snack.

611
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 1: Time, Marianda. That's that's that's it.

612
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:14,400
Speaker 2: That's it for Maria time is not gay time. It's

613
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:16,639
Speaker 2: just it's just it's a coffee.

614
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 1: If someone said they're doing that, I'm like, come on,

615
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 1: we know, we know what you like. It's Spanish, it

616
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:23,159
Speaker 1: is well, okay, now I don't know.

617
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 2: I just feel like, anyways, I think you're reading really

618
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 2: into the Marianda time, like you do it every day,

619
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:29,040
Speaker 2: you just don't know it.

620
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 1: This Christmas, he brought me home to his family because

621
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 1: I could go to mine.

622
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:33,879
Speaker 4: Yeah.

623
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 1: He introduced me to his parents and siblings and they

624
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 1: were incredibly loving. Wow. His mom was especially excited and caring.

625
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 1: His dad warned me not to hurt him.

626
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 4: Okay.

627
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 1: His semblings were fun to hang out with, and the

628
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:49,719
Speaker 1: whole experience made me feel like I gained a second family.

629
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 1: We're still together no matter what happens. I'm genuinely happy.

630
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 1: I tried the other way to which hurt a lot,

631
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 1: but it was still fun doing everything with him. I

632
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 1: just hope this relationship never ends. Thanks for so much

633
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 1: of all the support from me and my roommate.

634
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 3: Oh you change it to me and my boyfriend.

635
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 1: Roommate, your boyfriend. Okay, so it worked out really well?

636
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, oh yeah, sounds like it did.

637
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 3: It was the leap of faith.

638
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 4: He did the leap of faith. He listened to his

639
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 4: own heart, which is amazing. And like I say, not

640
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 4: always well you often not are easy to do. Its

641
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 4: very things like yeah it is.

642
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 1: We have some Q and a's for you right now, Okay,

643
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 1: Riley Miranda is just a Spanish Tagalog.

644
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 3: Say Tagalog again? Tagalog?

645
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 4: Is that the Filipino the language?

646
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm Filipino.

647
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 4: Oh so you would not have had a few Filipino clients? Yeah?

648
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 3: Do they bring you like any food?

649
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 4: Oh? Yeah?

650
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 1: Are they the best people?

651
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 4: They are the best. They are the.

652
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 1: Best really, like, you know, working with Keon and meeting

653
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 1: other Filipinos, and then I just started seeing the correlation

654
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 1: of like they're all just having a good time.

655
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 4: I know one of my clients, my Filipino clients, she

656
00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 4: said something once we were discussing cultures. It's like, yeah,

657
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 4: you know, the Asian community thinks we're the Latin Americans

658
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 4: of the Asian culture like the more fun.

659
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 2: We like to party, like we sen karaoke every day.

660
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 4: Yeah.

661
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 3: I always say this.

662
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 2: We're like the Italian Mexican of like Southeast Asia because

663
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 2: we just have huge families.

664
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 4: Yeah.

665
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 2: We love to eat and like huge, like if you're

666
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 2: if you're full, you're still eating. And we just love

667
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 2: to party liken like and play play crazy games.

668
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 3: That's us.

669
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 4: There's a lot of joy for life. I foundly one

670
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 4: of my clients means she had some and she's one

671
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 4: of the you know, this hasn't happen that often, but

672
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 4: we worked together for quite a while and now like

673
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:39,400
Speaker 4: years down the road as she's after she worked out

674
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 4: her problems were, which were a relationship oriented and personality

675
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 4: disorder oriented. I mean she lives like an hour and

676
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 4: a half away, but once in a while she'll be

677
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 4: in my part of town and she'll drop by and

678
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 4: she'll baked me something. Oh my goodness, you know, and

679
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 4: she's just got this this very playful spirit that I love.

680
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 2: Rally sees that every day.

681
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's running around just like Oh, he's always up

682
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 1: to something too, and that's great. So we have a

683
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 1: question from a fan, Sam here.

684
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:10,160
Speaker 3: We're gonna get back to the stories, but here's three

685
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 3: of its bad from our sponsors.

686
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 1: Sure this is an anonymous center. My twenties have recently

687
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 1: come to the conclusion that I'm depressed and might have

688
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 1: been for months. I've struggled with depression for decades and

689
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 1: had all the signs for months. Kept working up at night,

690
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 1: strong feelings of guilt and sadness, lack of joy and

691
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:34,640
Speaker 1: previously happy activities, brain fog, memory issues, feeling isolated even

692
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 1: with strong relationships, pushing people away intentionally, et cetera. But

693
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 1: I either ignored them or just didn't want to piece

694
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 1: it together. I don't have access to therapy or even

695
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 1: a PCP. How do I overcome this? I want to

696
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 1: become me again. How can I do that when I

697
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 1: didn't even realize how bad it was getting for months?

698
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 1: Ps I'm autistic, so processing stuff is difficult. Pooh, that's

699
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 1: a lot there.

700
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 4: Did we get information? Not just so I haven't my gender,

701
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 4: age or no, I mean I don't have to, but

702
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:07,360
Speaker 4: I was just wondering twenties.

703
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 1: I'm going to assume female, okay, just because that's who

704
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 1: usually watches our stuff. But I'm going to say like

705
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 1: twenties female.

706
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:17,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, this is important. I mean really, it breaks

707
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:19,200
Speaker 4: my heart. There are different kinds of therapists. Some of

708
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 4: us are open books and some of us are like

709
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:23,960
Speaker 4: kind of old school Freudian, like, you know, barely look

710
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 4: at me. It's all about you.

711
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 1: You know.

712
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 4: I am in the open book part because I just

713
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 4: feel it's better to work more collaboratively and as equals

714
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 4: and not pretend I'm here and you're there.

715
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 1: I'm the weird power complex.

716
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 4: Yeah. I just don't like that at all. But with that,

717
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 4: the reason I said that is while a therapist cannot

718
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 4: have experienced everything a client has experienced, you know, obviously

719
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 4: I find that well, I'm kind of spiritual, so I think,

720
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 4: like through the universe or whatever I have found through

721
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 4: decades now that I normally draw clients to me where

722
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 4: I in areas where I've had experience interesting. Yeah, and

723
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 4: it's so interesting. I had depression, major depressive episodes. They

724
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 4: call them like five or more symptoms of this nine

725
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 4: symptom list, which it sounds like I'll say, she, we

726
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 4: don't know, is that okay? Or the OPI?

727
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can say OPI she yeah. Yeah.

728
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 4: While not every therapist has to have this, to have

729
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 4: to treat it effectively. When you've been there, you kind

730
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 4: of know it on a deeper level, and it is

731
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 4: heartbreakingly painful.

732
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 1: When did you have those episodes?

733
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 4: My first epism was between the ages of twenty six

734
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 4: and twenty nine, when I go to medical school to

735
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 4: please my family, my mother. Basically in the middle of

736
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 4: my surgical I was a pediatrist. In the middle my

737
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 4: surgical internship. I realized that, like, what did I do?

738
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 4: It's not really what I want. This is what she wanted.

739
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 4: It's not fulfilling to me. The only things I mean,

740
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 4: it's nice to help people, but the only part of

741
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 4: the profession that ever seemed great was making people feel

742
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 4: a little more comfortable and good pay. But that wasn't enough,

743
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 4: you know, for me, and I just started to descend into,

744
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 4: you know, meeting five plus more of the criteria. I

745
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 4: just didn't feel like myself, couldn't enjoy life. It was awful,

746
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:24,239
Speaker 4: had a few physical symptoms, trouble sleeping, Oh wow. The

747
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 4: only thing I joke about is I lost my appetite

748
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 4: and if I could just keep that. But other than so,

749
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:34,279
Speaker 4: I uh, it was awful. And then I guess with

750
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:37,799
Speaker 4: the energy of youth. And I met my husband at

751
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,440
Speaker 4: the time when I was like twenty nine, and I

752
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:42,319
Speaker 4: think I just kind of came out of it because

753
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:45,359
Speaker 4: there was some counterbalancing joy. Yeah, you know, we were

754
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 4: together for like seven years, but we weren't really compatible.

755
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 4: And I realized finally it was time to go our

756
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 4: separate ways. And even though the one I made the call,

757
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 4: I got depressed again and I felt really mired in

758
00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,720
Speaker 4: it this time for like five years.

759
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:00,799
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness.

760
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 4: And it was awful. I mean I was able to function,

761
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:04,879
Speaker 4: but there wasn't you.

762
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,520
Speaker 1: Know, like go to work, but just like an autopilot.

763
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what it feels like. It's just awful. And

764
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 4: I sought out a therapist who was smart and will meaning,

765
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:18,760
Speaker 4: but I don't think she did well. Okay, people respond

766
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:21,880
Speaker 4: to different things. That's a whole other conversation. There's different

767
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 4: types of therapy, and there's not many official right and

768
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:28,799
Speaker 4: wrongs as to which therapy someone gives you. There's an

769
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 4: old mantra that says it's the relationship that heals, and

770
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 4: that is a big part of it. But still for

771
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:37,839
Speaker 4: anxiety and depression, there have been studies that show that

772
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:43,360
Speaker 4: cognitive behavioral therapy, dialectical behavioral therapy, and I'll put spiritual

773
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 4: psychology in that group because kind of therapy actually sprang

774
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 4: from Buddhist principles, they just don't talk about that much.

775
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 4: And I had someone that was just having me explore,

776
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 4: which they call more psychodynamic, my childhood, et cetera, et cetera.

777
00:35:57,440 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 4: But there's only so many times I can say I

778
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 4: resent my mom because she was narcissistic. I mean, after

779
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,399
Speaker 4: a while, like it's good to know, but it's not

780
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:08,280
Speaker 4: for this problem. It wasn't doing too much. And finally,

781
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 4: I'm not a quitter easily, but I should be sometimes.

782
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,799
Speaker 4: So I left and I went to another therapist who

783
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 4: was more psycho spiritually minded, and I was feeling a

784
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 4: lot better within six months. So it's a huge shift.

785
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:26,840
Speaker 1: Real quick. A lot of the top of the line

786
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:30,879
Speaker 1: types of therapy. I know that you just said psycho.

787
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 4: Psychodynamic, which is more about how your past influences contribute

788
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:41,759
Speaker 4: to your current circumstances, and here attracted. For instance, I've

789
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:45,040
Speaker 4: had my share of relationships with narcissistic men because I

790
00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 4: was used to kind of I hate to say it

791
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 4: this way, but taking it from a narcissistic person like,

792
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 4: you know, because I had to grow up with one

793
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:53,680
Speaker 4: and survive.

794
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:57,360
Speaker 1: So that's kind of maybe how you've learned to attach yourself.

795
00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:00,040
Speaker 4: Absolutely, you know, and taking a lot of therapy to

796
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:04,239
Speaker 4: take that one loose, you know. Cognitive behavioral therapy was

797
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 4: actually it's funny because I'm from Philly and it was

798
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:09,960
Speaker 4: developed in Philadelphia, well at the University of Pennsylvania by

799
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 4: a doctor named Aaron Beck, who was a professor, and

800
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:16,399
Speaker 4: he went with the model that our feelings come from

801
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:20,080
Speaker 4: our thinking and not the other way around. And that

802
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 4: can be a good thing because let's say you're sitting

803
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:25,280
Speaker 4: here and you're having a bad day. If I say, Riley,

804
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 4: just be happy. You can't control your emotions like that,

805
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:30,799
Speaker 4: just like that. But if I say, Riley, we're going

806
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:32,399
Speaker 4: to do an exercise first, I want you to think

807
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 4: of the Eiffel Tower. That's a thought process. You can

808
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 4: do that. So, because the emotions come from an aspect

809
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 4: of our thinking, if we can learn a few techniques,

810
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 4: and they can be I mean they write whole books

811
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 4: about them, but they can be boiled down pretty quickly. Actually,

812
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,240
Speaker 4: to be mindful of what you're thinking, ask is it true?

813
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 4: Psycho spiritual teacher named Byron Katie who made a whole

814
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:57,880
Speaker 4: career out of that, and rightly so, because it's really

815
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:02,560
Speaker 4: valuable to ask that and other techniques. That's cognitive therapy.

816
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 4: Now dialectical came a little bit later, and that's sort

817
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 4: of like a combination of cognitive therapy plus some Zen

818
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 4: Buddhism principles to just be with you know, with it,

819
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:17,440
Speaker 4: but still trying to manage your own emotional life the

820
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 4: best that you know to make yourself a happier person. Yeah,

821
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:23,720
Speaker 4: and then there's the full on sort of spiritual psychology,

822
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:27,279
Speaker 4: which is you know, many of the and they gave

823
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,000
Speaker 4: it a name transpersonal to make a little more fancy,

824
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:32,839
Speaker 4: I guess. But the spiritual psychology is like we all

825
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:36,200
Speaker 4: have two aspects of our mind, and you know, like

826
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 4: in the cartoons there's a little angel on your shoulder,

827
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:41,880
Speaker 4: double on your should, you know, we have a negative mind,

828
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 4: which is the human consciousness. Depending who you're reading, lots

829
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 4: of synonyms for these things. They go at consciousness. The

830
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,120
Speaker 4: ego not a good and like he has a strong ego,

831
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 4: but like the bad ego that's insatiable. It always once more,

832
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:57,839
Speaker 4: that doesn't care what anyone else has is long as

833
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 4: you have yours and so forth. And then there's the

834
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:05,480
Speaker 4: other part, which is our awakened consciousness, higher self, the

835
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:08,880
Speaker 4: part of us that connects more to universal energy. This

836
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:11,799
Speaker 4: is not have to do with religion, gotcha. I mean

837
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:14,239
Speaker 4: someone can be religious, that's fine, but you can be

838
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:17,360
Speaker 4: I mean, I don't go to churches or synagogues, but

839
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:20,719
Speaker 4: I deeply feel this is how I'm sort of operating

840
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 4: in life like everyone else, these two sides of the mind. Yeah,

841
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:27,799
Speaker 4: And so if you practice, you can learn to kind

842
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 4: of like look over your own shoulder. The Buddhist call

843
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 4: it being the observer or the witness. Your feelings are

844
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:36,799
Speaker 4: like your guidance system. It's like a radar. So if

845
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:40,080
Speaker 4: I'm finding myself in a really bad mood, for example,

846
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 4: as soon as I can remember, I'm like, wait a minute,

847
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:46,440
Speaker 4: Like I try to step outside it and go like,

848
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:49,479
Speaker 4: what am I telling myself that's causing me to feel

849
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:51,760
Speaker 4: that way? And once I know what I'm telling myself,

850
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 4: quickest way to go through. First of all, is it true?

851
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 4: Because a lot of the things that devastate us aren't

852
00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 4: even true, but if we believe it, they'll hurt us

853
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:02,280
Speaker 4: as badly. That's a big one, you know, and maybe

854
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 4: it is true. But then I have to work from

855
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:07,840
Speaker 4: there to work with myself as best as possible.

856
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:10,200
Speaker 1: I knew that there were like kinds of different types

857
00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:12,480
Speaker 1: of therapy, but I didn't know how deep.

858
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,319
Speaker 4: They go, very deeply. And here's the thing is that

859
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:19,920
Speaker 4: different therapists choose off in a different direction. Like my

860
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:24,400
Speaker 4: good friend down the road, you know, she's more psychodynamically oriented.

861
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:28,719
Speaker 4: That works well in her hands, and she has her successes.

862
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:31,759
Speaker 4: And then I'm more cognitively and spiritually oriented and that

863
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 4: works well with me. Do we debate about which one?

864
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:37,879
Speaker 4: We each kind of secretly are like, well, I think

865
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:39,719
Speaker 4: mine's better than you. Yes, but you know I no

866
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:43,799
Speaker 4: you argument, Yeah, a little smugness. Yeah, it can happen

867
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 4: on both sides for sure. And then there's eclectic, which

868
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 4: is like a lot of therapists these days are just like, hey,

869
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 4: I use whatever works. So can you blend to some

870
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:55,880
Speaker 4: of these things? Absolutely? I could be working with someone

871
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:59,600
Speaker 4: cognitively over a difficult relationship with a soon to be

872
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 4: at so if he has highly narcissistic traits, etc. Well,

873
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:06,239
Speaker 4: still at some point probably touch on. So let's you know,

874
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:09,759
Speaker 4: let me get understanding where you came from. Have you

875
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 4: been experiencing this behavior before? And one other thing that

876
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:16,160
Speaker 4: was a surprise, at least to me was that because

877
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 4: I don't remember that being mentioned in my training. Is like,

878
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 4: we always are like it's the mom or the dad,

879
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 4: the mom or the dad, but sometimes it's a sibling

880
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:26,080
Speaker 4: that can deeply affect us in a negative way if

881
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:28,840
Speaker 4: they have a personality disorder that they direct in a

882
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 4: negative way towards us. Interesting, So it can be an

883
00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:37,320
Speaker 4: older brother, even older sister. So there's lots of influences. However,

884
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:41,280
Speaker 4: my focus is it's great to know where it came from.

885
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:46,319
Speaker 4: It's interesting. However, these days, people don't have time, money,

886
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 4: energy like they did in Freud's days to sit down

887
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:51,480
Speaker 4: and lie on a couch for five hours free associate

888
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 4: and tell you about their latest dreams. I got an

889
00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 4: hour a week if they're lucky, and I want to

890
00:41:56,920 --> 00:42:00,840
Speaker 4: get to the tools because five hours. Yeah. When Freud

891
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:04,759
Speaker 4: started out, like his first as I've read, his first

892
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,399
Speaker 4: clients were like, well, the women were coming because they're

893
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:09,400
Speaker 4: like the weaker sex, you know. I mean it was

894
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:15,840
Speaker 4: eighteen something, right, and these men would send their wives

895
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 4: who they felt were having the problem, which is another

896
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:22,080
Speaker 4: thing you know, was not exactly a gender quality back then,

897
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:25,560
Speaker 4: and it would be these these wealth the wealthy class,

898
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:28,360
Speaker 4: and so these women who also did not work for

899
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:31,359
Speaker 4: a living would come in and lie for hours on

900
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 4: a couch and free associate. I mean he had to

901
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 4: start somewhere. I mean, he didn't invent all this as

902
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:39,799
Speaker 4: far as we know in the essentially, I mean there

903
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:42,319
Speaker 4: were precepts, like I said, Buddhism, but in terms of

904
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:45,719
Speaker 4: modern psychology, and he had to start somewhere and those

905
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:49,920
Speaker 4: things would happen. Now. Then the number two in psychology,

906
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:55,360
Speaker 4: Carl Jung, came along, who was Freud's disciple, and he

907
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 4: was also a brilliant man. He had a mom who

908
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:03,719
Speaker 4: was like a full on psychic mystic person, so he

909
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:07,439
Speaker 4: grew up with the mystical and so he was much

910
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:10,239
Speaker 4: more open to what are the forces behind that, like

911
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:15,759
Speaker 4: archetypes and spiritual if that's what actually The two were

912
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 4: like like inseparable until they were driven apart by the

913
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:21,520
Speaker 4: fact that Freud was born and raised Jewish, but he

914
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:24,400
Speaker 4: was an atheist and he had no room for anything

915
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:28,719
Speaker 4: remotely spiritual. Young was born Catholic and was deeply into

916
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 4: the spirit realm because of his mom most likely, and

917
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:34,440
Speaker 4: so they had a falling out, went their separate ways,

918
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:38,640
Speaker 4: and then unfortunately, when the Nazis came along, Freud had

919
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 4: to flee to England so they didn't kill him because

920
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:44,840
Speaker 4: he was Jewish. And then the playground was all Young's.

921
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:46,719
Speaker 4: I mean, they were both brilliant and they both made

922
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:49,360
Speaker 4: their contributions, but then Young was king of the castle.

923
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:54,319
Speaker 1: Wow, that's a little historical reference. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well

924
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:56,440
Speaker 1: you have another question for sure. Sam.

925
00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:57,279
Speaker 3: Here og host.

926
00:43:57,320 --> 00:43:59,000
Speaker 1: We're going to get back to these stories, but here's

927
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:03,080
Speaker 1: three minutes bads our sponsors. First, this is from crochet Kitty.

928
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 1: She says, I'm not enthusiastic about any career avenue because

929
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:09,280
Speaker 1: I don't want one. I want to be a mom.

930
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 1: I know I've made a post about baby fever before,

931
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:15,720
Speaker 1: but it has been newly and painfully renewed after getting

932
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:17,959
Speaker 1: to be with my best friend while she gave birth

933
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 1: to her second child. I'm not going to lie. I'm

934
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:25,279
Speaker 1: feeling extremely bitter. I also look at my grandparents and

935
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:28,240
Speaker 1: my husband's parents and see what I wish my life

936
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 1: could have been. My mother's parents had three kids, with

937
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:34,560
Speaker 1: only my grandfather having a serious job for the longest time.

938
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 1: My grandmother eventually got a part time job because she

939
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 1: wanted out of the house, not because they needed money.

940
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:43,520
Speaker 1: My father's parents were kind of the opposite. My grandmother

941
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:45,880
Speaker 1: got herself a decent job that she worked up the

942
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:51,440
Speaker 1: ladder through overtime, while my grandpa had inconsistent and unreliable jobs.

943
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:54,439
Speaker 1: They had two kids who were involved in a lot

944
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 1: of exracurricular activities. My husband's parents were like my mom's,

945
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:01,319
Speaker 1: where his father had a dec job, has a better

946
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:04,120
Speaker 1: job now, and his mother was at home with the kids.

947
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 1: He's still at home even though both of their children

948
00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 1: are grown, because they have enough money for her and

949
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:12,480
Speaker 1: they do not have to have a job. So why

950
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:15,880
Speaker 1: does this seem so effing impossible for us to do

951
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:18,920
Speaker 1: that all I want to do is have children and

952
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:22,279
Speaker 1: raise them myself. Is that really too much to ask for?

953
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 1: What the F I'm so frustrated right now because, like, honestly,

954
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:29,360
Speaker 1: the thought having a home, having children right now for

955
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:33,000
Speaker 1: me and people my age, yeah, feels impossible because like

956
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:35,359
Speaker 1: that that's going to take Oh my gosh, I gotta

957
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:38,960
Speaker 1: start saving like seven and fifty bucks yesterday. Yeah, and

958
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:41,560
Speaker 1: that happened right, so I could see kind of the

959
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:45,279
Speaker 1: impossibility there. But is it possible to just be a

960
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 1: stay at home mom and to raise.

961
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:52,040
Speaker 4: It's definitely possible if the income allows. And that's things

962
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:55,399
Speaker 4: get you know, such a drag basically, because I mean,

963
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:57,759
Speaker 4: I do know people who've done that. She sounds like

964
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:00,240
Speaker 4: she has a real passion for wanting to do that,

965
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:03,359
Speaker 4: and there's just nothing wrong with that. It's just that now,

966
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 4: is she currently married? I'm trying to follow this. She's not,

967
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:10,160
Speaker 4: So she's working, I assume currently because she probably has to.

968
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:12,080
Speaker 1: But she doesn't want to pursue a career, go to

969
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:14,360
Speaker 1: school to be like a nurse or like an account

970
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 1: or anything like that.

971
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 4: She just wants, you know, depending what level of income

972
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:20,239
Speaker 4: she's satisfied with. I don't know if she has any

973
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 4: outside people helping, like parents or not, but let's assume not.

974
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 4: She's going to obviously be focused on her on meeting people,

975
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:30,640
Speaker 4: you know, probably online because so many do. There can

976
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:32,440
Speaker 4: be other ways, but that seems to be the most

977
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:35,560
Speaker 4: like quote efficient these days in terms of her career.

978
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:38,520
Speaker 4: There's tons of exceptions, but a lot of times with

979
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:41,960
Speaker 4: a degree or school. You often make more money unless

980
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:45,160
Speaker 4: you have a special gift or you know, special creativity,

981
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:48,200
Speaker 4: but that may not be the most important to her.

982
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:51,440
Speaker 4: She may be okay with like just you know, getting along.

983
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 4: If that's who she is, then I don't know that

984
00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:59,200
Speaker 4: currently there's a prime I mean, she's how old twenty?

985
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:01,760
Speaker 1: I thinks she's like in her twenties or like about

986
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:03,160
Speaker 1: to start going to school or something.

987
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, she may want to devote more of her time

988
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:08,720
Speaker 4: and energy to meeting a partner. It just doesn't sound

989
00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:14,320
Speaker 4: as important to her to have a career at this moment.

990
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:18,359
Speaker 4: I mean, can people do both? Oh? Sure, yeah they can,

991
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:20,720
Speaker 4: But I mean it doesn't sound like what she wants.

992
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:23,280
Speaker 1: Sorry, she does have a husband.

993
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:25,920
Speaker 4: So she has a husband. Is she's saying like the

994
00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:27,520
Speaker 4: husband wants her to have a job.

995
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:28,359
Speaker 1: I don't know.

996
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:28,759
Speaker 2: I don't know.

997
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:30,120
Speaker 1: There's something they need to talk about.

998
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:33,600
Speaker 4: That comes up a lot because depending I mean, if

999
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:36,719
Speaker 4: the guy happens to be a wealthy guy or just

1000
00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:39,839
Speaker 4: doesn't care about money, he may be fine with that.

1001
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:43,400
Speaker 4: But if he's like, yeah it does he want children also?

1002
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:46,640
Speaker 4: Hopefully because that's what she wants. I get the feeling

1003
00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:50,880
Speaker 4: maybe he just maybe wants her to do more career

1004
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:55,160
Speaker 4: wise with her life. This is a hunch, and then

1005
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:57,920
Speaker 4: if she gets pregnant, she gets pregnant. Assuming I mean,

1006
00:47:57,960 --> 00:47:59,920
Speaker 4: if he doesn't want children, she shouldn't be in that.

1007
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:01,240
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1008
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:04,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, but he may want her to, you know, pursue

1009
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 4: more career because the money is important to him, or

1010
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:11,520
Speaker 4: it's like, hey, you can do both, which can people?

1011
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:16,560
Speaker 4: Yeah they can. So it might be an interpersonal thing.

1012
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:21,000
Speaker 4: You know, I understand envy and bitterness and such, but

1013
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:23,960
Speaker 4: are they doing everything they can to have a baby

1014
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:26,560
Speaker 4: and it just hasn't been happening. Yeah, that's a whole

1015
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:29,320
Speaker 4: other realm, which you know, I mean they're young, or

1016
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:32,440
Speaker 4: at least she's young, but you know, medical testing stuff

1017
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:36,360
Speaker 4: like that, if they did not do it, yeah, you know.

1018
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:39,280
Speaker 4: So there's a lot of factors here. Is there anything

1019
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:42,200
Speaker 4: wrong with her wanting what she wants? No, but it

1020
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:44,440
Speaker 4: seems like it's going to be I get a feeling

1021
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:46,319
Speaker 4: that's going to involve compromise with the US.

1022
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:49,759
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it feels like people my age is a

1023
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:53,000
Speaker 1: good career, go do this work work where Yeah, it's

1024
00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 1: very hard because one day I would like to move

1025
00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:58,360
Speaker 1: back to I'm from North Carolina.

1026
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:00,960
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, Oh that best friend of mine is too,

1027
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:03,840
Speaker 4: the one I told you Angelo's Charlotte. Yeah, Charlotte.

1028
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:05,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh my gosh, I love like an hour and

1029
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:06,920
Speaker 1: a half north of Charlotte.

1030
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:07,640
Speaker 4: Oh how funny.

1031
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:10,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so I am very familiar. But I'd like

1032
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:15,880
Speaker 1: to move back to quiet place. Land yard, yeah, dogs

1033
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 1: running around all that stuff. Have a garden, like, I

1034
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:22,879
Speaker 1: just don't know what that looks like, because like I'm

1035
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 1: doing this in La. Yeah, do this and be there.

1036
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:28,279
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, I don't know.

1037
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:30,279
Speaker 4: I mean, this is a remote job though for the

1038
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:32,719
Speaker 4: most part, except for in studio guests, which I guess

1039
00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:33,640
Speaker 4: you could do by zoom.

1040
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:36,759
Speaker 1: I could, yeah, but it's the other people are here.

1041
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:38,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and everyone I imagine doing that.

1042
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:41,239
Speaker 1: Would you want to go live in Tennessee to do

1043
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:43,080
Speaker 1: this full time? Would you like that?

1044
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:44,759
Speaker 3: No? I'm an La boy, so he's not.

1045
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:45,880
Speaker 1: I can't take him with me.

1046
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 4: No. I mean, well, I don't have the expertise to

1047
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:51,160
Speaker 4: know if you could do that part long distance. I

1048
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:53,520
Speaker 4: get it. But what you're saying is if someone and

1049
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:57,880
Speaker 4: this is not this question, but it wants a career

1050
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:01,080
Speaker 4: and also wants family that also kind of looks different

1051
00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:03,880
Speaker 4: from men than for women, obviously because the biological clock

1052
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:06,600
Speaker 4: and I do. I have had several of my clients

1053
00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:09,960
Speaker 4: that want both because you know, even for the financial

1054
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:14,320
Speaker 4: security for themselves, because not all marriages last forever. Yeah,

1055
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:17,080
Speaker 4: or they want to have both in white, shouldn't they.

1056
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:19,320
Speaker 4: So I have had a few women in my practice

1057
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:23,120
Speaker 4: now that you know they freeze their eggs and they yes,

1058
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:25,120
Speaker 4: I think it's a little bit costly, but they find

1059
00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:28,120
Speaker 4: a way and they want to know. Like I had

1060
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:31,719
Speaker 4: a client of mine a while back. She was an attorney.

1061
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:35,280
Speaker 4: She was like thirty three, and she was engaged to somebody.

1062
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:38,120
Speaker 4: She really wanted kids, but it was such an up

1063
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:41,440
Speaker 4: and down engagement. It didn't feel secure. Yeah, you know

1064
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:44,840
Speaker 4: that makeup breakup. And finally, and you know, she was

1065
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:47,359
Speaker 4: making good money, so she had means. She said, well,

1066
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 4: I know I want a child. I'm freezing these eggs.

1067
00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:53,280
Speaker 4: And she's doing it while she's young enough to most

1068
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:56,080
Speaker 4: likely have some good eggs to freeze. And that's another

1069
00:50:56,160 --> 00:51:00,279
Speaker 4: whole interesting topic because I've seen several couples that are

1070
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:03,799
Speaker 4: like quote older couples where the and a lot of

1071
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:05,560
Speaker 4: times the man is older than a woman, but she

1072
00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:07,840
Speaker 4: has a baby at forty two because she has the

1073
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:11,719
Speaker 4: eggs to do it. Yeah, and her partners maybe forty eight,

1074
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:15,400
Speaker 4: forty nine. And it's really interesting because they used to

1075
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:17,359
Speaker 4: talk about this as a dilemma when I was doing

1076
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:19,960
Speaker 4: my training back in the day. Is that a lot

1077
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:25,279
Speaker 4: of therapists feel like, ideally, on terms of the intellectual maturity,

1078
00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:27,920
Speaker 4: it'd be great to start having your kids at forty

1079
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:33,800
Speaker 4: when you have this more emotional stability I know life experience. However,

1080
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:37,799
Speaker 4: the problem is besides biological clocks and so forth, that

1081
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:40,480
Speaker 4: the women have to deal with. Every couple that's had

1082
00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:44,080
Speaker 4: them later that I've seen has said, I love my kid,

1083
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:48,719
Speaker 4: but they feel like their physical energy really flags, and

1084
00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:51,800
Speaker 4: maybe that wasn't the best idea.

1085
00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:54,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to be able to play basketball with

1086
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:57,200
Speaker 1: my kids. Right, whatever I get into, I can keep

1087
00:51:57,280 --> 00:52:00,359
Speaker 1: up with them. But we do have another story, if

1088
00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:03,920
Speaker 1: you're ready, Yes, yep, yep. My husband isolated me and

1089
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:07,720
Speaker 1: still played the victim when I finally escaped trigger warning

1090
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:11,360
Speaker 1: emotional mistreatment. When I was a teenager, I married my

1091
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:14,520
Speaker 1: high school sweetheart. He was joining the military and had

1092
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:17,240
Speaker 1: convinced me that if we didn't get married I would

1093
00:52:17,239 --> 00:52:18,480
Speaker 1: never see him again.

1094
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:19,800
Speaker 4: Oh man.

1095
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:23,040
Speaker 1: By the way, this comes from angsty talk over and

1096
00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:24,680
Speaker 1: if you want to smit your own stories, go to

1097
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:27,600
Speaker 1: the r slash Okay story time super atit obeit continues.

1098
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:30,440
Speaker 1: The red flags started when he told me he didn't

1099
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:34,720
Speaker 1: like my friends A and B. I guess Angie and Brittany.

1100
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:37,319
Speaker 1: We thought about them often, but they had been my

1101
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:41,040
Speaker 1: best girlfriend since junior high and I didn't want to

1102
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:43,960
Speaker 1: totally give them up. I'm just worried about who they

1103
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:47,120
Speaker 1: hang out with. I'm worried about your safety. They're not

1104
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:52,080
Speaker 1: good friends. They don't want us to be together, he said, yeah. Ugh.

1105
00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:55,040
Speaker 1: We moved several states away from our hometown, and then

1106
00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:59,560
Speaker 1: things got progressively worse. I had my belly button pierced,

1107
00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:03,719
Speaker 1: wanting to surprise him, thinking it was spicy. Why did

1108
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:06,359
Speaker 1: you do that? You didn't ask me. You changed your

1109
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:08,280
Speaker 1: body without talking to me first.

1110
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:09,120
Speaker 4: Okay.

1111
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:12,680
Speaker 1: I got confused and upset, saying it was a surprise

1112
00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:15,640
Speaker 1: for him since he had said they were attractive, and

1113
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:18,799
Speaker 1: he said, it's okay, Han, I forgive you. You just

1114
00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:21,279
Speaker 1: need to ask me first. I felt ashamed that I

1115
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:24,200
Speaker 1: didn't realize that I needed to talk to him first,

1116
00:53:24,520 --> 00:53:28,920
Speaker 1: what a bad wife I was already being had. I thought, yikes,

1117
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:30,799
Speaker 1: that is a pretty big red flag right there.

1118
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:34,239
Speaker 4: It's a huge red flag because so much of what

1119
00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:37,439
Speaker 4: I work with is men or women, because it goes

1120
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:41,000
Speaker 4: both ways for leaving a narcissistic partner. But the level

1121
00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:45,319
Speaker 4: of control already has me being like, okay, wait till

1122
00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:47,640
Speaker 4: it's your turn. Oh my god. You know it's a

1123
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:51,799
Speaker 4: lot and unhealthy and unfortunately it is a classic thing,

1124
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:55,479
Speaker 4: as I mentioned earlier, to have if I'm gonna assume

1125
00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:58,560
Speaker 4: he's narcissistic for the sake for you, Yeah, yeah, like

1126
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:01,880
Speaker 4: if he is, or even if he's narcissists quote adjacent,

1127
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:04,760
Speaker 4: it is a play to isolate you from your friends

1128
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:10,040
Speaker 4: because then you are less likely to leave, because it's

1129
00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:12,560
Speaker 4: very hard for people to leave without support. Some people's

1130
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:15,680
Speaker 4: stay because they feel no choice, and you know, not

1131
00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:18,680
Speaker 4: even bringing like children into it, but even pets. It's

1132
00:54:18,840 --> 00:54:21,719
Speaker 4: like they need support. They want their friends, they want

1133
00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:23,120
Speaker 4: their pets, they want for kids.

1134
00:54:23,239 --> 00:54:26,240
Speaker 1: You know, you need to be reliant on me solely.

1135
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:28,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that is just deadly.

1136
00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:31,800
Speaker 1: My girlfriend likes to change her appearance sometimes. I remember

1137
00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:33,880
Speaker 1: she got her nose peers that was stuff for me,

1138
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:36,120
Speaker 1: she warned me. They go to she warm me. She's like, hey,

1139
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:37,680
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give my nose piers. I want you to

1140
00:54:37,719 --> 00:54:39,799
Speaker 1: know that, and I'm like, okay, okay, I'm prepared. The

1141
00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:42,880
Speaker 1: nose thing was great. She shave her eyebrows out with once.

1142
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:44,640
Speaker 1: That was tough for me, but I got around to

1143
00:54:44,680 --> 00:54:46,799
Speaker 1: it and I was like, okay, great. And then by

1144
00:54:46,840 --> 00:54:49,359
Speaker 1: the time she dyed her hair red, I was like, whatever, girl,

1145
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:50,680
Speaker 1: you got it.

1146
00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:52,560
Speaker 4: Absolutely yeah.

1147
00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:54,680
Speaker 1: But it took a little bit. I'm gonna get used to.

1148
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:58,040
Speaker 1: But now I'm like, ah, I love you. The first

1149
00:54:58,040 --> 00:55:01,080
Speaker 1: time he showed his true temper was then I folded

1150
00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:03,640
Speaker 1: the towels wrong. I mixed in the blue towels with

1151
00:55:03,640 --> 00:55:06,319
Speaker 1: the white towels. He wanted them separate. I'm trying so

1152
00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:08,759
Speaker 1: dang hard to give you nice things, and you can't

1153
00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:12,200
Speaker 1: see that, he yelled, standing by the door doorway before

1154
00:55:12,239 --> 00:55:15,640
Speaker 1: storming off. This looks terrible. You can't mix them. I cried,

1155
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:19,040
Speaker 1: but brushed it off. As he stressed from work, told

1156
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:21,000
Speaker 1: me he didn't want to go to college in town,

1157
00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:23,319
Speaker 1: like we had discussed before we got married. I might

1158
00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:26,120
Speaker 1: get transferred. You can't go to school you need to

1159
00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:28,880
Speaker 1: be with me, he said, and I agreed. So I

1160
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:31,400
Speaker 1: worked and saved money for school whenever that would be.

1161
00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:34,440
Speaker 1: He was happy I had made friends, but then he

1162
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:36,600
Speaker 1: would become angry when I would go out to have

1163
00:55:36,680 --> 00:55:39,399
Speaker 1: girl time. I just effan miss you, okay. I work

1164
00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:41,640
Speaker 1: so hard for you, and I want to see you

1165
00:55:41,719 --> 00:55:43,759
Speaker 1: when I get home, he would yell at me. So

1166
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:47,480
Speaker 1: I skipped seeing friends to avoid fights. I wanted to

1167
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:49,840
Speaker 1: fly home to visit my parents for a few days.

1168
00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:52,920
Speaker 1: We were driving down the highway and I brought this up,

1169
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:55,799
Speaker 1: and he started screaming at me. Don't you think I

1170
00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:58,640
Speaker 1: don't want to see my family too? And you're leaving

1171
00:55:58,680 --> 00:56:01,800
Speaker 1: me here? His face beat red, and he had pulled

1172
00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:04,120
Speaker 1: into an empty parking lot to yell at me more.

1173
00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:07,680
Speaker 1: This time. I was so scared. I didn't say anything.

1174
00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:10,640
Speaker 1: He just secretly cried. We went to the beach with friends.

1175
00:56:10,760 --> 00:56:12,680
Speaker 1: When we left, he told me I was too quiet

1176
00:56:12,719 --> 00:56:15,960
Speaker 1: today and how dare I embarrass him in front of everyone?

1177
00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:18,439
Speaker 1: Dan asked me why you were so quiet? Ask what's

1178
00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:20,200
Speaker 1: wrong with you? He screamed at me. While we were

1179
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:22,799
Speaker 1: driving home. I cried. We pulled over in an ice

1180
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:25,160
Speaker 1: cream shop and got me my favorite ice cream calm.

1181
00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:27,279
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I didn't mean to make you cry. I

1182
00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:29,400
Speaker 1: just don't want you to be moody around our friends.

1183
00:56:29,560 --> 00:56:32,080
Speaker 1: It's embarrassing. I hadn't realized I was being quiet. I'll

1184
00:56:32,080 --> 00:56:34,680
Speaker 1: have to try harder next time, I thought, heartbreaking.

1185
00:56:34,840 --> 00:56:37,840
Speaker 4: It is heartbreaking. So she's in the situation now, mmmm,

1186
00:56:38,320 --> 00:56:41,480
Speaker 4: and she's writing to Hey, what do you think about this?

1187
00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:44,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, well we're getting more, but right now this is

1188
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:47,040
Speaker 1: so far. What's happening in the relationship.

1189
00:56:47,120 --> 00:56:47,880
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh.

1190
00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:50,080
Speaker 1: He would pick fights with me about the dishes or

1191
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:52,920
Speaker 1: putting the groceries are way wrong, and I eventually didn't

1192
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:54,960
Speaker 1: have the strength to fight back. I would try to

1193
00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:57,759
Speaker 1: hide in the bathroom, hoping he'd calm down, but he

1194
00:56:57,800 --> 00:56:59,799
Speaker 1: would follow me and pound on the door, threatening to

1195
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:02,400
Speaker 1: it down. The housing people will be pissed if I

1196
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:05,200
Speaker 1: break this door down. You better open it before that happens.

1197
00:57:05,719 --> 00:57:07,920
Speaker 1: He convinced me to let go of my access to

1198
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:12,160
Speaker 1: our bank account and let him handle everything. Oh no,

1199
00:57:12,239 --> 00:57:14,640
Speaker 1: this might be like last worst thing to happen.

1200
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:15,319
Speaker 4: It is.

1201
00:57:15,520 --> 00:57:18,520
Speaker 1: It's stressing you out. Just let me handle it, he said.

1202
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:21,840
Speaker 1: Then on out. I needed his login and password to

1203
00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:24,440
Speaker 1: sign in which he kept changing, making me come to

1204
00:57:24,520 --> 00:57:27,360
Speaker 1: him with questions about our finances. It was so confusing

1205
00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:30,720
Speaker 1: because he would shower me with affection and grand gestures,

1206
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:33,240
Speaker 1: making me believe we were soulmates, but then he would

1207
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:36,880
Speaker 1: yell at me for doing something wrong. I never spoke

1208
00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:39,520
Speaker 1: to anyone about it. I was afraid they wouldn't believe me.

1209
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:42,360
Speaker 1: I didn't fully know how to explain it because he

1210
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:46,080
Speaker 1: was so charming and everyone loved him. I wasn't being

1211
00:57:46,120 --> 00:57:48,400
Speaker 1: a good wife. I must be doing something wrong. I

1212
00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:51,720
Speaker 1: would think, Oh, I didn't know. This behavior wasn't normal.

1213
00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:53,560
Speaker 1: I thought I was a bad wife and started to

1214
00:57:53,560 --> 00:57:57,640
Speaker 1: become massively depressed without fully understanding and the tipping points.

1215
00:57:57,640 --> 00:57:59,840
Speaker 1: So we're getting to the tipping point. Yeah, this is

1216
00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:01,760
Speaker 1: You would say he's a narcissist.

1217
00:58:01,400 --> 00:58:04,440
Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, I mean because he's like I haven't met

1218
00:58:04,520 --> 00:58:06,680
Speaker 4: him in person. I couldn't do that in the court

1219
00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:10,760
Speaker 4: of law, but I would bet my mortgage that he's

1220
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:13,680
Speaker 4: an arcissist. It's a very like I said, it's it's

1221
00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:18,480
Speaker 4: amazing how the playbook is the same and she's hitting

1222
00:58:18,720 --> 00:58:22,880
Speaker 4: so many flags. It is. I would be shocked if

1223
00:58:22,920 --> 00:58:23,520
Speaker 4: he wasn't.

1224
00:58:24,080 --> 00:58:26,560
Speaker 1: I remember whenever we talked about a situation. He wants

1225
00:58:26,560 --> 00:58:28,200
Speaker 1: everyone to look at him and be like, oh, you

1226
00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:30,080
Speaker 1: look so great. You look so great. He doesn't want

1227
00:58:30,080 --> 00:58:31,880
Speaker 1: to mess that up. He wants an outside look to

1228
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:33,440
Speaker 1: look pure and colabsolute.

1229
00:58:33,600 --> 00:58:36,920
Speaker 4: Their image is really really important to them. He doesn't

1230
00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:40,160
Speaker 4: seem to really care about her feelings at all. The isolation,

1231
00:58:40,440 --> 00:58:45,360
Speaker 4: the screaming alone, Like healthy partnerships, people don't scream at

1232
00:58:45,400 --> 00:58:47,960
Speaker 4: each other like that, or they if they have a

1233
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:50,160
Speaker 4: hot temper, they learn to control it and learn some

1234
00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:54,040
Speaker 4: you know, counseling. Yeah, there are ways, but it sounds

1235
00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:55,760
Speaker 4: like it's a regular thing with him. And then the

1236
00:58:55,800 --> 00:58:57,959
Speaker 4: control with the bank account. I mean, it just goes

1237
00:58:58,000 --> 00:59:01,840
Speaker 4: on and on. Isolation from friends there. This is very unfortunately,

1238
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:02,880
Speaker 4: it's very textbook.

1239
00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:05,040
Speaker 2: A lot of people in the chat too are saying,

1240
00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:08,560
Speaker 2: I've seen some comments of one obviously narcissistic behavior, but

1241
00:59:08,560 --> 00:59:12,200
Speaker 2: also OCD with you know, the towels, yeah, and then

1242
00:59:12,320 --> 00:59:14,640
Speaker 2: the groceries being put away in a certain order.

1243
00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:17,680
Speaker 4: And absolutely I had one of my clients that I'm

1244
00:59:17,720 --> 00:59:20,960
Speaker 4: still working with. She originally came to me with a

1245
00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:24,760
Speaker 4: partnership that was like this, and he, you know, narciss

1246
00:59:24,880 --> 00:59:27,120
Speaker 4: usually don't stick around therapy, and they only come if

1247
00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:30,040
Speaker 4: they're dragged in. And he's stuck around for four or

1248
00:59:30,120 --> 00:59:33,600
Speaker 4: five visits, and then he left because he was sensing

1249
00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:35,720
Speaker 4: I was not like, yeah, you're doing it right.

1250
00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:36,600
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1251
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:40,040
Speaker 4: And she has gone through a long you know, they

1252
00:59:40,120 --> 00:59:43,520
Speaker 4: share a young child, which makes it so much harder,

1253
00:59:43,720 --> 00:59:46,560
Speaker 4: but a long breakup and she's getting to the other side.

1254
00:59:46,600 --> 00:59:49,560
Speaker 4: But he also had this OCD who was always telling her,

1255
00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:53,400
Speaker 4: you don't scrub the kitchen right, who's like obsessive about that.

1256
00:59:53,520 --> 00:59:56,200
Speaker 4: They both worked, but she made more money than he did.

1257
00:59:56,320 --> 00:59:58,760
Speaker 4: He didn't allow her to bring in cleaning help. And

1258
00:59:58,800 --> 01:00:01,800
Speaker 4: she's like a VP for Microsoft. I mean, this is

1259
01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:05,800
Speaker 4: not a woman that spent, in my opinion, spending her

1260
01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:08,760
Speaker 4: she can make she can do better at Microsoft and

1261
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:11,720
Speaker 4: bring in help. You want to allow it. That's really nonsense.

1262
01:00:11,920 --> 01:00:14,840
Speaker 2: How do you doctor allian, especially with you probably have

1263
01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:17,760
Speaker 2: had these cases when you get clients and they come

1264
01:00:17,760 --> 01:00:20,440
Speaker 2: in with the attitude of just not accepting it, you know,

1265
01:00:20,520 --> 01:00:22,200
Speaker 2: how do you how do you go about that not

1266
01:00:22,240 --> 01:00:24,480
Speaker 2: accepting that they don't want to hear like you when

1267
01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:27,760
Speaker 2: you said like her husband or ex husband, you know,

1268
01:00:27,960 --> 01:00:29,920
Speaker 2: could tell that you're not really siding with him, or

1269
01:00:29,960 --> 01:00:32,480
Speaker 2: you can like, this is not the results that we're getting.

1270
01:00:32,680 --> 01:00:35,920
Speaker 2: You know, it's not fixing anything. How does that? You know,

1271
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:38,880
Speaker 2: as for someone like you as a professional, how do

1272
01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:41,760
Speaker 2: you go about that? Or you know, if they won't

1273
01:00:41,760 --> 01:00:44,200
Speaker 2: hear the truth, or you know, they don't want to

1274
01:00:44,200 --> 01:00:46,360
Speaker 2: believe they don't believe you in that sense, or do

1275
01:00:46,400 --> 01:00:48,480
Speaker 2: they think you're wrong, how do you go about that?

1276
01:00:48,920 --> 01:00:53,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a really interesting question. There's not like wonderful

1277
01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:55,439
Speaker 4: ways to go about it, and I do what I can,

1278
01:00:55,600 --> 01:00:57,880
Speaker 4: of course, you know, you try to stay professional and

1279
01:00:57,920 --> 01:01:01,200
Speaker 4: everything even though it's very glaring what's going along, Although

1280
01:01:01,240 --> 01:01:05,120
Speaker 4: you don't eventually deny that because it's funny. What almost

1281
01:01:05,160 --> 01:01:08,720
Speaker 4: always happens is the narcissistic partner who's been dragged in

1282
01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:12,640
Speaker 4: won't come back after and then the other partner, who

1283
01:01:13,080 --> 01:01:15,240
Speaker 4: is trying to like find their way out of this

1284
01:01:15,360 --> 01:01:19,520
Speaker 4: will become my steady individual. That happens. Oh, and it's good.

1285
01:01:19,520 --> 01:01:21,320
Speaker 4: I mean it should be that way in a way

1286
01:01:21,760 --> 01:01:24,080
Speaker 4: happens over and over. Like you know, tonight, I have

1287
01:01:24,080 --> 01:01:26,320
Speaker 4: a couple I'm seeing and neither of them have a

1288
01:01:26,360 --> 01:01:31,440
Speaker 4: personality disorder. They're healthy people. They just especially him interestingly,

1289
01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:34,960
Speaker 4: you know, believes in like I want to make sure

1290
01:01:34,960 --> 01:01:38,120
Speaker 4: we're communicating right. He's a little more touchy feeling. She's

1291
01:01:38,120 --> 01:01:41,080
Speaker 4: a little more businessy. They're great people. They have two

1292
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:43,880
Speaker 4: young kids that are doing great, and I look forward

1293
01:01:43,920 --> 01:01:46,760
Speaker 4: to seeing them because it's not your typical couple that

1294
01:01:46,880 --> 01:01:50,080
Speaker 4: comes in and we talk and you know, they just

1295
01:01:50,160 --> 01:01:53,960
Speaker 4: want tips. But if someone is personality disordered with a

1296
01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:57,479
Speaker 4: more like a malevolent personality, especially like narcissism or any

1297
01:01:57,480 --> 01:02:01,000
Speaker 4: social personality disorder, We're hearing a lot about the narcissism

1298
01:02:01,080 --> 01:02:06,080
Speaker 4: these days in the political arena, et cetera. That person

1299
01:02:06,160 --> 01:02:08,680
Speaker 4: want they just tell me I don't know what I'm

1300
01:02:08,720 --> 01:02:11,720
Speaker 4: talking about and they walk out. Well it's like, well,

1301
01:02:11,760 --> 01:02:13,240
Speaker 4: I think I know more about this than you do.

1302
01:02:13,400 --> 01:02:16,040
Speaker 4: And they have nothing remotely to do with the therapy field.

1303
01:02:16,360 --> 01:02:19,600
Speaker 4: Another hallmark. They will not allow someone to know more

1304
01:02:19,640 --> 01:02:20,040
Speaker 4: than them.

1305
01:02:20,320 --> 01:02:21,959
Speaker 3: That's crazy sop.

1306
01:02:22,000 --> 01:02:25,040
Speaker 1: He says. The tipping point was when he was screaming

1307
01:02:25,040 --> 01:02:28,040
Speaker 1: about me wanting to go out with my friends. I

1308
01:02:28,080 --> 01:02:30,200
Speaker 1: was present to the couch holding back tears, and I

1309
01:02:30,200 --> 01:02:32,360
Speaker 1: got up to walk away to lock myself in the bedroom,

1310
01:02:32,360 --> 01:02:34,280
Speaker 1: but he steps in front of me and pushed me

1311
01:02:34,320 --> 01:02:36,440
Speaker 1: back into the living room. I left the house. I

1312
01:02:36,480 --> 01:02:39,040
Speaker 1: went for a walk. When I came back, he apologized, saying,

1313
01:02:39,080 --> 01:02:40,840
Speaker 1: I just love you so much, you need to spend

1314
01:02:40,880 --> 01:02:42,760
Speaker 1: your time with me. I pushed to go back to

1315
01:02:42,800 --> 01:02:45,439
Speaker 1: college and demanding that he let me sign up. That's

1316
01:02:45,480 --> 01:02:49,040
Speaker 1: when he admitted that he had spent the fifteen thousand

1317
01:02:49,120 --> 01:02:52,120
Speaker 1: dollars I had saved up on working at a crap

1318
01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:54,840
Speaker 1: fast food job before we got married. You can't go.

1319
01:02:54,960 --> 01:02:57,480
Speaker 1: There's no money. I swear I'll earn it back. He

1320
01:02:57,680 --> 01:03:00,000
Speaker 1: lied to me for years about how much was in saye,

1321
01:03:00,680 --> 01:03:03,240
Speaker 1: making me think I had even more than we had

1322
01:03:03,280 --> 01:03:04,840
Speaker 1: before we had gotten married.

1323
01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:05,840
Speaker 4: That's horrific.

1324
01:03:06,040 --> 01:03:07,480
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.

1325
01:03:07,600 --> 01:03:11,480
Speaker 4: And besides the money being horrific, the locking her like

1326
01:03:11,600 --> 01:03:14,520
Speaker 4: that's kind of candy not. You know, the first stage

1327
01:03:14,520 --> 01:03:18,640
Speaker 4: of getting to more physically violent m M presence usually

1328
01:03:18,800 --> 01:03:21,040
Speaker 4: starts with that doesn't mean he will be or rasbin,

1329
01:03:21,160 --> 01:03:26,200
Speaker 4: but it's it's incredibly unhealthy and scary. Really yeah, And

1330
01:03:26,960 --> 01:03:29,320
Speaker 4: I you know, I don't know if there's more to

1331
01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:32,320
Speaker 4: the story, but in my mind, I'm going she needs

1332
01:03:32,360 --> 01:03:34,880
Speaker 4: to leave yesterday if she possibly can.

1333
01:03:35,280 --> 01:03:37,960
Speaker 1: We thought a lot I suggested we go to counseling.

1334
01:03:38,200 --> 01:03:41,240
Speaker 1: He fell asleep during a session. He never really listened

1335
01:03:41,240 --> 01:03:43,120
Speaker 1: to what I was saying and would tell me my

1336
01:03:43,160 --> 01:03:46,720
Speaker 1: feelings were wrong and why he was right after we

1337
01:03:46,760 --> 01:03:50,000
Speaker 1: would leave the counselor's office. Over time, if I did

1338
01:03:50,080 --> 01:03:52,760
Speaker 1: something wrong, he would yell at me about how his

1339
01:03:52,840 --> 01:03:55,520
Speaker 1: family thinks we should just divorce since I was being

1340
01:03:55,560 --> 01:03:57,920
Speaker 1: so difficult, so it's a bad wife. But but he

1341
01:03:57,960 --> 01:04:00,320
Speaker 1: loved me too much to not do that. I stayed

1342
01:04:00,320 --> 01:04:03,120
Speaker 1: with him for three years before I got the nerve

1343
01:04:03,240 --> 01:04:05,760
Speaker 1: to leave him, and at that point I was absolutely

1344
01:04:05,840 --> 01:04:08,880
Speaker 1: terrified of him. He got an assignment overseas, not deployed,

1345
01:04:08,920 --> 01:04:11,880
Speaker 1: just an assignment, and I took the opportunity to leave him,

1346
01:04:11,960 --> 01:04:14,040
Speaker 1: but like a terrible person for leaving him while he

1347
01:04:14,160 --> 01:04:16,680
Speaker 1: was away, like a complete coward. But I was so

1348
01:04:16,960 --> 01:04:19,680
Speaker 1: scared he wouldn't let me leave, and was scared he

1349
01:04:19,680 --> 01:04:22,520
Speaker 1: would make it physical. My new friends didn't believe me

1350
01:04:22,560 --> 01:04:24,640
Speaker 1: when I tried to explain what had been happening. He

1351
01:04:24,760 --> 01:04:27,160
Speaker 1: was so funny and sweet after all, and he spread

1352
01:04:27,200 --> 01:04:30,280
Speaker 1: rumors that I was pardoning and cheating on him, and

1353
01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:34,160
Speaker 1: that destroyed all of my relationships with my friends. And acquaintances.

1354
01:04:34,640 --> 01:04:37,360
Speaker 1: He got his friends to spread rumors about me so

1355
01:04:37,480 --> 01:04:39,720
Speaker 1: much that at one point I had a total stranger

1356
01:04:39,800 --> 01:04:42,360
Speaker 1: asked me at my work if I was that witch

1357
01:04:42,520 --> 01:04:46,720
Speaker 1: at my base job that was screwing around on her husband.

1358
01:04:46,840 --> 01:04:49,720
Speaker 1: And he even managed to harnish my reputation in our

1359
01:04:49,880 --> 01:04:54,160
Speaker 1: very small hometown, cutting some already small ties. He refused

1360
01:04:54,160 --> 01:04:56,600
Speaker 1: to let me sign the divorce papers, keeping me trapped

1361
01:04:56,640 --> 01:05:00,560
Speaker 1: in limbo for almost an entire year, pulling power and

1362
01:05:00,560 --> 01:05:04,080
Speaker 1: making frolls promises. But once it was finalized, I was

1363
01:05:04,200 --> 01:05:08,120
Speaker 1: so effing relieved. I didn't care that I was basically

1364
01:05:08,200 --> 01:05:11,360
Speaker 1: alone and I had almost no one, not even my family,

1365
01:05:11,360 --> 01:05:14,960
Speaker 1: fully believed me him. No, he's so nice. Maybe you

1366
01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:18,080
Speaker 1: could have tried harder. I don't believe he would yell

1367
01:05:18,200 --> 01:05:19,400
Speaker 1: at you for stuff like that.

1368
01:05:19,720 --> 01:05:19,800
Speaker 2: Uh.

1369
01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:22,520
Speaker 1: If you're still reading after this long post, I just

1370
01:05:22,520 --> 01:05:25,160
Speaker 1: want to say, please, don't repeat any of my mistakes.

1371
01:05:25,240 --> 01:05:27,320
Speaker 1: I feel like something is off, do not brush it

1372
01:05:27,360 --> 01:05:31,640
Speaker 1: aside or continuously make excuses for someone's bad behavior. If

1373
01:05:31,640 --> 01:05:34,480
Speaker 1: someone is showering you with infection and screaming at you,

1374
01:05:34,680 --> 01:05:37,520
Speaker 1: or putting you down over small things, that's not love.

1375
01:05:37,600 --> 01:05:40,080
Speaker 1: That's not love at all it's control and a powergraph.

1376
01:05:40,120 --> 01:05:42,280
Speaker 1: It wasn't until years later that I saw an episode

1377
01:05:42,320 --> 01:05:45,640
Speaker 1: of some show featuring a self assorb person's husband when

1378
01:05:45,680 --> 01:05:48,040
Speaker 1: I realized that I had been experiencing the same thing.

1379
01:05:48,280 --> 01:05:50,560
Speaker 1: I wish I would have known about those types of

1380
01:05:50,560 --> 01:05:53,360
Speaker 1: twisted behaviors when I was that dumb kid back then.

1381
01:05:53,520 --> 01:05:56,120
Speaker 1: It might have saved me from a very dark period

1382
01:05:56,160 --> 01:05:58,200
Speaker 1: in my life. Oh my god, it seems.

1383
01:05:57,880 --> 01:05:59,840
Speaker 4: Like she has a good heart. I mean, she's already

1384
01:06:00,120 --> 01:06:03,480
Speaker 4: well Number one, she didn't know. I mean, we're not well.

1385
01:06:03,520 --> 01:06:06,040
Speaker 4: There's more information out there, like floating around the Internet

1386
01:06:06,080 --> 01:06:08,520
Speaker 4: than there used to be. At least there's an internet now,

1387
01:06:08,880 --> 01:06:11,240
Speaker 4: but we aren't raised learning this stuff. We have no

1388
01:06:11,320 --> 01:06:13,960
Speaker 4: idea for her to say she felt bad for him

1389
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:17,440
Speaker 4: when she was leaving, very soft hearted, even though I

1390
01:06:17,440 --> 01:06:21,840
Speaker 4: don't feel he deserved the empathy and her concern for

1391
01:06:21,920 --> 01:06:25,800
Speaker 4: not having other people go through it. I mean, these days,

1392
01:06:26,280 --> 01:06:30,120
Speaker 4: because people are so much more self educated through the

1393
01:06:30,120 --> 01:06:32,920
Speaker 4: Internet than when I started my practice thirty three years ago,

1394
01:06:33,520 --> 01:06:36,200
Speaker 4: when we didn't have an Internet. People come in amazingly

1395
01:06:36,360 --> 01:06:39,440
Speaker 4: some come in amazingly educated, and they're like, yeah, I've

1396
01:06:39,480 --> 01:06:41,240
Speaker 4: had this, this and this, I looked it up. You

1397
01:06:41,280 --> 01:06:43,280
Speaker 4: think I have X, Y, and Z actually makes the

1398
01:06:43,320 --> 01:06:46,360
Speaker 4: process go faster, like you're right on it, and yes,

1399
01:06:46,440 --> 01:06:49,520
Speaker 4: you do or he does or she does. But with

1400
01:06:49,640 --> 01:06:53,280
Speaker 4: that said, yeah, there's some excellent books on this. One

1401
01:06:53,280 --> 01:06:55,160
Speaker 4: of the best experts I think is a woman named

1402
01:06:55,200 --> 01:06:57,800
Speaker 4: doctor Romney, who actually I believe, I don't think she

1403
01:06:57,880 --> 01:07:00,320
Speaker 4: takes in private practice clients at the moment. It's one

1404
01:07:00,360 --> 01:07:03,120
Speaker 4: of those high profile educators at this point, but she

1405
01:07:03,440 --> 01:07:06,439
Speaker 4: lives somewhere in either Santa Monica or Beverly Hills.

1406
01:07:06,480 --> 01:07:06,760
Speaker 1: Wow.

1407
01:07:07,120 --> 01:07:09,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, And she's got a couple best sellers that are

1408
01:07:09,920 --> 01:07:12,120
Speaker 4: great and easy for anyone to find. And she does

1409
01:07:12,120 --> 01:07:15,440
Speaker 4: a lot of podcasting. And while she doesn't say it directly,

1410
01:07:15,520 --> 01:07:18,000
Speaker 4: you can kind of tell that she has been through

1411
01:07:18,040 --> 01:07:20,920
Speaker 4: this herself. She's not you know, she's I don't know,

1412
01:07:21,160 --> 01:07:23,040
Speaker 4: she's late fifties, she's not a kid. I think she's

1413
01:07:23,080 --> 01:07:25,600
Speaker 4: been through things, and she's terrific. There's a lot of

1414
01:07:25,760 --> 01:07:26,920
Speaker 4: there are support groups.

1415
01:07:27,000 --> 01:07:27,440
Speaker 2: I know.

1416
01:07:27,720 --> 01:07:30,360
Speaker 4: I can't name the specific support groups because MS my

1417
01:07:30,440 --> 01:07:33,280
Speaker 4: clients were not asking that right now, so I haven't

1418
01:07:33,320 --> 01:07:37,280
Speaker 4: like googled it. But she can find community and the

1419
01:07:37,320 --> 01:07:41,080
Speaker 4: other thing it's so hard is. While not every narcissist

1420
01:07:41,120 --> 01:07:44,240
Speaker 4: is charming, they that is a trait that's not necessarily

1421
01:07:44,360 --> 01:07:47,920
Speaker 4: listed in the diagnostic manual, but it's so common they

1422
01:07:47,920 --> 01:07:50,840
Speaker 4: are able to turn on the charm. Just many of

1423
01:07:50,880 --> 01:07:55,160
Speaker 4: them have a huge ability to be charming, and they

1424
01:07:55,240 --> 01:07:58,080
Speaker 4: use that to their advantage and convince everyone else it's

1425
01:07:58,280 --> 01:07:58,880
Speaker 4: her problem.

1426
01:07:59,080 --> 01:08:02,440
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. Uh yeah, that was so heartbreaking. You've

1427
01:08:02,480 --> 01:08:06,320
Speaker 1: mentioned before the different types of attachment that people have

1428
01:08:06,480 --> 01:08:07,560
Speaker 1: with narcissists.

1429
01:08:07,640 --> 01:08:10,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, in the sense of I was, I was

1430
01:08:10,600 --> 01:08:14,560
Speaker 4: looking at it in terms primarily of what their personality

1431
01:08:14,640 --> 01:08:17,760
Speaker 4: struggles could be. So that's not strict attachment theory, but

1432
01:08:17,880 --> 01:08:21,080
Speaker 4: it's something like, there are certain personality types that are

1433
01:08:21,120 --> 01:08:25,400
Speaker 4: more likely to connect with, hook up with, stay with narcissists,

1434
01:08:25,400 --> 01:08:29,000
Speaker 4: not always, but again often, and the two most common

1435
01:08:29,040 --> 01:08:33,800
Speaker 4: types are borderline personality disorders. They used to refer to

1436
01:08:33,880 --> 01:08:38,160
Speaker 4: that as interlocking pathology, meaning you know, until it doesn't work.

1437
01:08:38,360 --> 01:08:41,400
Speaker 4: Usually for the borderline person, eventually they fit like a

1438
01:08:41,439 --> 01:08:45,920
Speaker 4: lock and key. Because the ABPD person is often very insecure.

1439
01:08:46,400 --> 01:08:49,000
Speaker 4: The narcissist knows how to tap into this and you'll

1440
01:08:49,040 --> 01:08:52,400
Speaker 4: be okay with me, you know, Like I said, I've

1441
01:08:52,400 --> 01:08:56,120
Speaker 4: never seen a narcissist make a good spouse, male or female.

1442
01:08:56,439 --> 01:08:59,840
Speaker 4: Sometimes if you get two narcissists together, which happens occasionally,

1443
01:09:00,080 --> 01:09:02,839
Speaker 4: they can get along and have like a mutual mutual

1444
01:09:02,920 --> 01:09:07,400
Speaker 4: admiration society. But unless they're both narcissistic, and it never

1445
01:09:07,439 --> 01:09:09,880
Speaker 4: seems to end well, although some people will stay to

1446
01:09:09,920 --> 01:09:14,640
Speaker 4: the death, but they're not happy the other type. There

1447
01:09:14,680 --> 01:09:18,320
Speaker 4: are ten personality disorders out there, and one of them

1448
01:09:18,640 --> 01:09:21,720
Speaker 4: that is not as high profile as like narcissism, is

1449
01:09:21,720 --> 01:09:25,719
Speaker 4: called dependent personality disorder, and they're not high profile because

1450
01:09:26,000 --> 01:09:29,040
Speaker 4: they don't cause anyone else any harm or any drama.

1451
01:09:29,160 --> 01:09:32,439
Speaker 4: They just cause themselves issues, and so they kind of

1452
01:09:32,439 --> 01:09:36,280
Speaker 4: more quietly drowned in the corner. And they're very vulnerable

1453
01:09:36,400 --> 01:09:40,680
Speaker 4: to narcissists because they just the structure of their personality,

1454
01:09:40,720 --> 01:09:44,200
Speaker 4: which can be healed through therapy, is such that they

1455
01:09:44,600 --> 01:09:48,080
Speaker 4: just don't even though they have fine abilities, they don't

1456
01:09:48,120 --> 01:09:50,800
Speaker 4: have the confidence in their abilities, and they just do

1457
01:09:50,920 --> 01:09:53,519
Speaker 4: well with a person who says, yeah, you're right and

1458
01:09:53,600 --> 01:09:56,080
Speaker 4: yeah do this. They're more likely to quote take direction,

1459
01:09:56,720 --> 01:09:58,080
Speaker 4: which the narcissist loves.

1460
01:09:58,240 --> 01:10:01,960
Speaker 1: Oh, oh my gosh, we do have two questions for you.

1461
01:10:02,320 --> 01:10:05,400
Speaker 1: Maybe a question for Eileen, But do you deal with

1462
01:10:05,439 --> 01:10:10,679
Speaker 1: people having a longing or very emotionally intense slash drawing

1463
01:10:11,240 --> 01:10:14,760
Speaker 1: or calling to living somewhere. I've lived and traveled a

1464
01:10:14,800 --> 01:10:17,439
Speaker 1: lot of places, but there was one place I feel

1465
01:10:17,479 --> 01:10:20,479
Speaker 1: the strongest drawn to from the second I stepped foot

1466
01:10:20,520 --> 01:10:23,519
Speaker 1: in that town. Interesting. Is that a thing?

1467
01:10:23,840 --> 01:10:26,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that would include me. There's more to it

1468
01:10:26,240 --> 01:10:28,360
Speaker 4: than just the snow. I mean, that's the easiest way

1469
01:10:28,400 --> 01:10:31,639
Speaker 4: to describe it. But when I had an old friend

1470
01:10:31,680 --> 01:10:33,439
Speaker 4: out here I'm still friends with from high school and

1471
01:10:33,479 --> 01:10:36,320
Speaker 4: college named Jason, and I visited him when I graduated

1472
01:10:36,439 --> 01:10:38,760
Speaker 4: med school, so I was like twenty five or so.

1473
01:10:39,840 --> 01:10:42,880
Speaker 4: The plane landed and they didn't have the jetway they

1474
01:10:43,000 --> 01:10:45,080
Speaker 4: usually have for some reason, so we just had to

1475
01:10:45,120 --> 01:10:48,200
Speaker 4: walk down some stairs outside, so to speak. And I

1476
01:10:48,240 --> 01:10:52,240
Speaker 4: took one look around me and thought, this is home.

1477
01:10:52,520 --> 01:10:54,479
Speaker 4: And it took me eight years to get the carriage

1478
01:10:54,560 --> 01:10:57,719
Speaker 4: to move. Wow, because I am one of those people

1479
01:10:57,800 --> 01:10:59,479
Speaker 4: like to have a little too much support around me,

1480
01:10:59,520 --> 01:11:03,280
Speaker 4: maybe times at least back then, but I did eventually move. Obviously,

1481
01:11:03,560 --> 01:11:06,840
Speaker 4: I in terms of how to explain it, the only

1482
01:11:07,360 --> 01:11:10,759
Speaker 4: explanation I know goes well. I tend to be pretty

1483
01:11:11,040 --> 01:11:16,479
Speaker 4: metaphysically spiritually interested. And you know, I know a lot

1484
01:11:16,479 --> 01:11:18,679
Speaker 4: of people don't, but a lot of people do believe

1485
01:11:18,720 --> 01:11:22,479
Speaker 4: in things like, let's say, past lives, and sometimes I

1486
01:11:22,560 --> 01:11:27,439
Speaker 4: think that energy is there from an existence they don't

1487
01:11:27,720 --> 01:11:32,080
Speaker 4: quite remember. And to that point, I've had a couple

1488
01:11:32,200 --> 01:11:35,840
Speaker 4: past life aggressions as the patient with a couple people

1489
01:11:36,160 --> 01:11:40,360
Speaker 4: who were psychologists doctors in psychology, and the first one

1490
01:11:40,400 --> 01:11:44,160
Speaker 4: I had, I felt like a different person because your person,

1491
01:11:44,400 --> 01:11:47,360
Speaker 4: your essence is there, but your personality can be different,

1492
01:11:47,400 --> 01:11:51,240
Speaker 4: maybe because you're in different circumstances whatever. And it's interesting.

1493
01:11:51,280 --> 01:11:54,400
Speaker 4: In this life, I was never drawn to have children.

1494
01:11:54,720 --> 01:11:57,320
Speaker 4: It just wasn't something I had a longing for that

1495
01:11:57,680 --> 01:12:01,000
Speaker 4: loved animals before I could open my mouth, but children

1496
01:12:01,000 --> 01:12:03,400
Speaker 4: weren't in the picture of this time for me, I believe. However,

1497
01:12:03,479 --> 01:12:06,479
Speaker 4: in that lifetime, I saw myself as a woman, a

1498
01:12:06,520 --> 01:12:10,719
Speaker 4: Mexican woman, financially comfortable, sitting in a you know, eighteen

1499
01:12:10,880 --> 01:12:14,439
Speaker 4: hundred something, a school teacher. I knew all these things

1500
01:12:14,479 --> 01:12:18,280
Speaker 4: just instantly. She was widowed, but she wasn't, you know, sad.

1501
01:12:18,479 --> 01:12:20,519
Speaker 4: She had a boy and a girl, and they were

1502
01:12:20,560 --> 01:12:23,040
Speaker 4: sitting around a big table with a heart fireplace, and

1503
01:12:23,120 --> 01:12:25,360
Speaker 4: like it was very vivid, oh wow, And I could

1504
01:12:25,360 --> 01:12:28,160
Speaker 4: feel her emotions for me in that lifetime and she

1505
01:12:28,320 --> 01:12:31,880
Speaker 4: was so content and happy, and I'm like wow. And

1506
01:12:32,000 --> 01:12:36,960
Speaker 4: you know, subsequently, coincidentally, when I visited California, loved California,

1507
01:12:37,000 --> 01:12:40,280
Speaker 4: and then when I was I've been married twice with

1508
01:12:40,320 --> 01:12:42,400
Speaker 4: a big gap in between, like once in my youth

1509
01:12:42,439 --> 01:12:44,960
Speaker 4: and once in my middle age with an eighteen year gap.

1510
01:12:45,120 --> 01:12:48,240
Speaker 4: But I met my first husband, Ramon, on a trip

1511
01:12:48,320 --> 01:12:52,240
Speaker 4: for vacation in Acapulco and ended up I was married

1512
01:12:52,240 --> 01:12:54,080
Speaker 4: to him for seven years and he was you know,

1513
01:12:54,160 --> 01:12:56,920
Speaker 4: born and raised right out of Mexico. And I don't

1514
01:12:56,920 --> 01:12:59,680
Speaker 4: know that all these things are just coincidence. They could be,

1515
01:12:59,720 --> 01:13:01,400
Speaker 4: and there a lot of people right now and be like,

1516
01:13:01,600 --> 01:13:04,519
Speaker 4: come on, you know, but there's a lot of things

1517
01:13:04,560 --> 01:13:06,960
Speaker 4: we can't explain. And that's the only thing that's ever

1518
01:13:07,000 --> 01:13:09,519
Speaker 4: made sense to me, that it was from a past life,

1519
01:13:09,560 --> 01:13:13,160
Speaker 4: the past life some type of yeah, wow, past connection.

1520
01:13:13,520 --> 01:13:14,040
Speaker 1: Interesting.

1521
01:13:14,240 --> 01:13:16,280
Speaker 4: But I know a lot of people don't go with that.

1522
01:13:16,360 --> 01:13:18,439
Speaker 4: But all the people are pretty much open minded. These

1523
01:13:19,439 --> 01:13:21,840
Speaker 4: don't say you're just crazy.

1524
01:13:22,000 --> 01:13:24,879
Speaker 1: I get that because my family's from like North Carolina,

1525
01:13:24,920 --> 01:13:26,920
Speaker 1: the mountains. Oh yeah, and being away from the mountains,

1526
01:13:26,960 --> 01:13:28,479
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh where am I? What am I doing

1527
01:13:28,479 --> 01:13:30,360
Speaker 1: out here? There's desert? What do I do with the desert?

1528
01:13:30,720 --> 01:13:30,880
Speaker 2: You know?

1529
01:13:31,200 --> 01:13:33,400
Speaker 4: So maybe even this life, but yeah, for me, I

1530
01:13:33,479 --> 01:13:35,479
Speaker 4: wasn't you know born and maories in Philly, didn't have

1531
01:13:35,479 --> 01:13:37,320
Speaker 4: any Hispanic friends, nothing.

1532
01:13:37,439 --> 01:13:38,160
Speaker 1: So drawn here.

1533
01:13:38,240 --> 01:13:38,760
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1534
01:13:38,760 --> 01:13:42,679
Speaker 2: Whitney did respond and says, on the fence with past life,

1535
01:13:42,720 --> 01:13:43,559
Speaker 2: I don't discount things.

1536
01:13:43,600 --> 01:13:45,400
Speaker 3: I don't have proof flash answers for that.

1537
01:13:45,520 --> 01:13:45,880
Speaker 1: Uh huh.

1538
01:13:46,000 --> 01:13:48,599
Speaker 2: But that makes sense too. Thanks for asking, and thanks

1539
01:13:48,600 --> 01:13:49,559
Speaker 2: Eileen for answering.

1540
01:13:49,600 --> 01:13:51,080
Speaker 4: Oh that's very sweet. Thank you.

1541
01:13:51,479 --> 01:13:54,240
Speaker 2: And then we have another question back to what we

1542
01:13:54,400 --> 01:13:58,040
Speaker 2: had with BPT. But to just reiterate it from Kim Fine,

1543
01:13:58,640 --> 01:14:01,120
Speaker 2: does doctor Eileen have thought about the theory of quiet

1544
01:14:01,320 --> 01:14:05,240
Speaker 2: orderline personality disorder. I feel like BBD is just so stigmatized.

1545
01:14:05,439 --> 01:14:09,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean there are they these days, more distinctions

1546
01:14:09,720 --> 01:14:14,600
Speaker 4: are being made and it is stigmatized terribly, which is

1547
01:14:14,720 --> 01:14:17,559
Speaker 4: sad because I work with a lot of BPD. It's

1548
01:14:17,560 --> 01:14:23,360
Speaker 4: one of my subspecialties, you know. And while they are

1549
01:14:23,400 --> 01:14:28,320
Speaker 4: while they're classified under there's like three classifications under personality disorders.

1550
01:14:28,360 --> 01:14:30,960
Speaker 4: It's like they call them access one, two, and three

1551
01:14:31,080 --> 01:14:33,559
Speaker 4: or eight, well actually ABC, I don't know however they

1552
01:14:33,560 --> 01:14:36,640
Speaker 4: picked out that name. But borderline is grouped in the

1553
01:14:37,160 --> 01:14:41,600
Speaker 4: what they call the dramatic personality. It's along with narcissism, histrionic,

1554
01:14:41,720 --> 01:14:45,600
Speaker 4: and anti social personalities because on the whole, the reputation

1555
01:14:45,840 --> 01:14:49,360
Speaker 4: is they do kind of cause a lot of chaos. However,

1556
01:14:49,880 --> 01:14:52,439
Speaker 4: there is some more a quieter type where they just

1557
01:14:52,640 --> 01:14:55,760
Speaker 4: sort of suffer some of the slings and arrows internally,

1558
01:14:55,800 --> 01:14:59,920
Speaker 4: which I'll mention in a second, not necessarily being loud

1559
01:15:00,200 --> 01:15:04,280
Speaker 4: or dramatic. And here's the thing. BPD has gotten a

1560
01:15:04,400 --> 01:15:10,759
Speaker 4: terrible reputation over the years because they can be stormy people,

1561
01:15:11,200 --> 01:15:15,759
Speaker 4: especially with not all again but many with a partner,

1562
01:15:15,960 --> 01:15:18,080
Speaker 4: romantic partner. It comes out the most. It can come

1563
01:15:18,080 --> 01:15:21,680
Speaker 4: out in other areas too, you know, like work, but

1564
01:15:21,840 --> 01:15:25,240
Speaker 4: usually it comes out most significantly at home because they

1565
01:15:25,320 --> 01:15:27,000
Speaker 4: kind of have like a bit of a like a

1566
01:15:27,200 --> 01:15:31,200
Speaker 4: broken emotional thermostat they have trouble regularly. It's they want

1567
01:15:31,240 --> 01:15:35,520
Speaker 4: to change the name actually to emotional dysregulatory disorder. Borderline

1568
01:15:35,600 --> 01:15:38,720
Speaker 4: is just what's borderline is confusing the term from the

1569
01:15:38,800 --> 01:15:41,160
Speaker 4: old days where they were still trying to figure it out,

1570
01:15:41,520 --> 01:15:45,439
Speaker 4: especially as far back as Marilyn Monroe is now believed

1571
01:15:45,479 --> 01:15:49,080
Speaker 4: have been borderline and that's why she was such a chaotic, gorgeous, talented,

1572
01:15:49,200 --> 01:15:51,360
Speaker 4: but she also had to deal with being boiling person

1573
01:15:51,400 --> 01:15:53,599
Speaker 4: angel or they didn't understand it back then. So it's

1574
01:15:53,680 --> 01:15:56,120
Speaker 4: very sad, and you know, she handered her life early.

1575
01:15:56,320 --> 01:15:59,680
Speaker 4: In these days, it's much better understood. But because the

1576
01:15:59,720 --> 01:16:03,240
Speaker 4: people people who have had, which is human nature, a

1577
01:16:03,280 --> 01:16:06,719
Speaker 4: bad experience with let's say a romantic partner, it's usually

1578
01:16:06,760 --> 01:16:08,959
Speaker 4: who's word. You know, they're the ones that get online

1579
01:16:09,080 --> 01:16:12,080
Speaker 4: and go, oh my god, my ex, let's say girlfriend

1580
01:16:12,120 --> 01:16:16,000
Speaker 4: had bortline personnality disorder, just their poisons, stay away from them.

1581
01:16:16,280 --> 01:16:18,160
Speaker 4: But first of all, that's you know a lot of

1582
01:16:18,160 --> 01:16:21,040
Speaker 4: times that's not true. But you know how it's the

1583
01:16:21,640 --> 01:16:25,400
Speaker 4: negative attention that gets the most attention. Well, it's what

1584
01:16:25,439 --> 01:16:28,200
Speaker 4: I like about, you know, working with people with BPG

1585
01:16:28,560 --> 01:16:32,360
Speaker 4: is unlike narcissism who have this like one foot fixed

1586
01:16:32,400 --> 01:16:35,120
Speaker 4: cement wall where you just can't penetrate defenses and get

1587
01:16:35,160 --> 01:16:37,439
Speaker 4: anywhere because they can't be seen as less than perfect.

1588
01:16:37,479 --> 01:16:39,479
Speaker 4: So they're like, ah, you're wrong, I know better than you.

1589
01:16:39,520 --> 01:16:41,720
Speaker 4: I'm out of here. For the most part, people with

1590
01:16:41,840 --> 01:16:46,320
Speaker 4: BPD really want to get better, then they don't really

1591
01:16:46,439 --> 01:16:50,799
Speaker 4: know kind of how. And even within the therapy field,

1592
01:16:51,240 --> 01:16:53,080
Speaker 4: I don't know exactly how many of them are saying

1593
01:16:53,120 --> 01:16:56,160
Speaker 4: it these days. But when I graduated, you know, from

1594
01:16:56,160 --> 01:16:59,080
Speaker 4: my training, there were professors saying, well, if you get

1595
01:16:59,120 --> 01:17:01,479
Speaker 4: a worline and make sure you don't get more than

1596
01:17:01,479 --> 01:17:03,599
Speaker 4: one or two, they're a lot to handle. They could

1597
01:17:03,640 --> 01:17:06,639
Speaker 4: emotionally hurt you, they could sue you, they could be latitia,

1598
01:17:06,720 --> 01:17:09,720
Speaker 4: you know all this, And then that wasn't my experience.

1599
01:17:09,840 --> 01:17:12,120
Speaker 4: And now I have like a good third of my

1600
01:17:12,240 --> 01:17:17,120
Speaker 4: clients and they've been wonderful. You know, are you.

1601
01:17:17,200 --> 01:17:18,080
Speaker 1: Helping them through that?

1602
01:17:18,360 --> 01:17:21,599
Speaker 4: Yeah, and they can heal from this, but it does

1603
01:17:21,920 --> 01:17:24,080
Speaker 4: usually take some therapy for that.

1604
01:17:24,439 --> 01:17:28,760
Speaker 1: Wow, that's yeah, that's extraordinary that you're able to meet

1605
01:17:28,800 --> 01:17:29,559
Speaker 1: them where they are.

1606
01:17:29,760 --> 01:17:33,519
Speaker 4: I'm very happy about that. In my own family, I mean,

1607
01:17:33,560 --> 01:17:35,559
Speaker 4: I didn't know growing up, but I think my mom,

1608
01:17:35,600 --> 01:17:38,680
Speaker 4: who was the parent I clashed more with, had a

1609
01:17:38,680 --> 01:17:43,400
Speaker 4: combination and that's common too, of narcissistic and borderline personality traits,

1610
01:17:43,400 --> 01:17:46,080
Speaker 4: and I think it got me frankly interested in the

1611
01:17:46,080 --> 01:17:48,960
Speaker 4: field once I realized what was going on, and it

1612
01:17:49,080 --> 01:17:52,680
Speaker 4: just it just grew from there. But the trouble is

1613
01:17:52,720 --> 01:17:55,840
Speaker 4: that the stistics I've seen in recent times is that

1614
01:17:56,120 --> 01:17:59,040
Speaker 4: one out of three people with wordline personality disord are

1615
01:17:59,200 --> 01:18:04,200
Speaker 4: also have narcissistic yeah tendencies, traits or disorder. If the

1616
01:18:04,280 --> 01:18:09,120
Speaker 4: narcissism is in the mix, it unfortunately give the expression

1617
01:18:09,200 --> 01:18:14,000
Speaker 4: Trump's the borderline personality disorder. And those aren't the people

1618
01:18:14,000 --> 01:18:17,200
Speaker 4: who generally come for help. However, that two thirds do not,

1619
01:18:17,560 --> 01:18:19,800
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, and they need the help. I mean

1620
01:18:19,800 --> 01:18:22,120
Speaker 4: that's a good thing because they come in and like,

1621
01:18:22,360 --> 01:18:24,200
Speaker 4: I don't know what the heck it is, but you know,

1622
01:18:24,280 --> 01:18:26,120
Speaker 4: help me. And some of them who have been to

1623
01:18:26,200 --> 01:18:29,519
Speaker 4: therapy before, and this is something that really personally bothers me.

1624
01:18:29,800 --> 01:18:32,240
Speaker 4: We're not told that that's what they had, and then

1625
01:18:32,280 --> 01:18:34,960
Speaker 4: the therapy didn't work. When I've looked into why they

1626
01:18:34,960 --> 01:18:39,120
Speaker 4: weren't told, I got theories, like from other therapists, like well,

1627
01:18:39,160 --> 01:18:41,880
Speaker 4: I don't like to label people and I don't like

1628
01:18:41,960 --> 01:18:44,240
Speaker 4: to I mean, one of my best, very best client,

1629
01:18:44,280 --> 01:18:46,679
Speaker 4: it was a real success. She was actually the Filipino

1630
01:18:46,720 --> 01:18:49,320
Speaker 4: woman who would bring me the bread, the zucchini bread

1631
01:18:49,360 --> 01:18:51,639
Speaker 4: and stuff of course she would be angry because she's

1632
01:18:51,680 --> 01:18:53,880
Speaker 4: coming to me at forty five going why that f

1633
01:18:53,960 --> 01:18:58,040
Speaker 4: didn't anyone tell me? Yeah, And I don't have a

1634
01:18:58,040 --> 01:19:00,360
Speaker 4: good answer for that, because I think it's wrong. It's like,

1635
01:19:00,439 --> 01:19:03,479
Speaker 4: if you were feeling like, really generally lousy, you wouldn't

1636
01:19:03,479 --> 01:19:05,799
Speaker 4: want your doctor to say, I know what you have, Riley,

1637
01:19:05,840 --> 01:19:07,439
Speaker 4: but I don't. I don't want to tell you if

1638
01:19:07,439 --> 01:19:10,040
Speaker 4: it's COVID or Bronco. Of course we should know what

1639
01:19:10,040 --> 01:19:13,080
Speaker 4: we are here for, exactly. Yeah, and yet there's still

1640
01:19:13,160 --> 01:19:16,599
Speaker 4: less school of thought. And it really bothers me because

1641
01:19:16,600 --> 01:19:17,639
Speaker 4: I've seen it do damage.

1642
01:19:17,680 --> 01:19:20,200
Speaker 1: But I'm glad you're able to shoot straight with them

1643
01:19:20,200 --> 01:19:22,439
Speaker 1: and yeah, yeah, this is what's happening.

1644
01:19:22,479 --> 01:19:23,400
Speaker 4: They deserve to know.

1645
01:19:24,720 --> 01:19:26,880
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for coming on. This has been

1646
01:19:27,000 --> 01:19:27,599
Speaker 1: a pleasure.

1647
01:19:28,080 --> 01:19:29,679
Speaker 4: Thank you. I've really enjoyed it.

1648
01:19:29,920 --> 01:19:32,760
Speaker 1: Now, where can people find you? Do you have a website?

1649
01:19:32,880 --> 01:19:36,320
Speaker 4: Oh? Yes, I do. I have a website at doctor

1650
01:19:36,360 --> 01:19:40,080
Speaker 4: Eileen dot com. It's just all lowercase DR, no period

1651
01:19:40,160 --> 01:19:42,840
Speaker 4: d R I L E N e dot com and

1652
01:19:42,880 --> 01:19:45,360
Speaker 4: that's the easiest place to find me. I'm also a

1653
01:19:45,439 --> 01:19:47,559
Speaker 4: lot of people find me through Yelbu. I'm on there too.

1654
01:19:47,640 --> 01:19:49,800
Speaker 4: I know doctor Eileen Crems.

1655
01:19:49,439 --> 01:19:52,519
Speaker 1: Which is kind of got Snapchat, Instagram, anything like that, you.

1656
01:19:52,520 --> 01:19:58,400
Speaker 4: Know, not yet I don't have those, but so right

1657
01:19:58,439 --> 01:20:01,600
Speaker 4: now I'm just I'm I'm thinking of at my website

1658
01:20:01,760 --> 01:20:05,360
Speaker 4: and Yelp is where most people find me awesome, but

1659
01:20:05,560 --> 01:20:07,800
Speaker 4: who knows, you know, maybe with time.

1660
01:20:07,800 --> 01:20:10,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we'll get your TikTok count This would be

1661
01:20:10,200 --> 01:20:12,479
Speaker 1: the great best thing to do, is like cut this up,

1662
01:20:12,640 --> 01:20:14,479
Speaker 1: yeah and post videos like this on TikTok.

1663
01:20:14,520 --> 01:20:17,599
Speaker 4: Interesting, Yeah, I know, I'd love to do it. It's

1664
01:20:17,680 --> 01:20:21,080
Speaker 4: intriguing to me. I might ill tech support, but outside of.

1665
01:20:21,040 --> 01:20:23,120
Speaker 1: It, yeah yeah, yeah, But thank you so much for

1666
01:20:23,160 --> 01:20:24,320
Speaker 1: coming on my pleasure.

1667
01:20:24,360 --> 01:20:26,800
Speaker 4: Thank you for having me, and thank you too. I

1668
01:20:26,920 --> 01:20:28,080
Speaker 4: really appreciate it.

1669
01:20:28,360 --> 01:20:31,560
Speaker 1: So, guys, if you love us, make sure to subscribe.

1670
01:20:31,680 --> 01:20:33,439
Speaker 1: We love you and we'll see you tomorrow.