1
00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:04,360
Speaker 1: Murder on Songbird Road is a production of iHeart Podcasts.

2
00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:10,760
Speaker 1: Previously on Murder on Songbird Road. Julia Beverly's nine to

3
00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:13,400
Speaker 1: one one call wasn't the only one of interest on

4
00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:14,640
Speaker 1: the day of Jade's murder.

5
00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:17,439
Speaker 2: And this call was made at ten thirty for a

6
00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:23,400
Speaker 2: suspicious person. No way. He was out there belligerent talking

7
00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:24,759
Speaker 2: about harming somebody.

8
00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:26,960
Speaker 1: And it looks like there were two calls.

9
00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:30,639
Speaker 3: The police were responding to Julie Beverly's call, but it

10
00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:35,440
Speaker 3: looks like Marion police were already en route to a

11
00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:39,000
Speaker 3: call about a male in all black.

12
00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:43,599
Speaker 4: But I did overhear one of the officers state that

13
00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:47,479
Speaker 4: we had a ninety one one call. They were looking

14
00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:52,400
Speaker 4: for a person in a dark hoodie in dark hands,

15
00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:55,240
Speaker 4: suspiciously running through backyard.

16
00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:57,800
Speaker 2: There was a guy in a mask or a person

17
00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:01,560
Speaker 2: in a mask running through the backyard at that time,

18
00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:03,600
Speaker 2: and he made that call. He said, I made the

19
00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:04,720
Speaker 2: nine to one one call.

20
00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:09,640
Speaker 1: The property that's adjacent to the murder scene with multiple

21
00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:13,440
Speaker 1: bodies of water, a heavily wooded area, and now what

22
00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:19,880
Speaker 1: we're hearing a makeshift encampment for transient people and the

23
00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:21,120
Speaker 1: police don't check it.

24
00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:23,320
Speaker 2: That's what I can't understand.

25
00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:28,080
Speaker 1: Jason Bom Bob Mada, Bob, Jason, nice.

26
00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:28,200
Speaker 5: To meet you.

27
00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:28,440
Speaker 6: Man.

28
00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:33,280
Speaker 2: We have this adversarial system right where the prosecution's trying

29
00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:35,800
Speaker 2: to win and the defense is trying to defend their client.

30
00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:38,440
Speaker 5: What we need is an inquisitorial system.

31
00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:45,399
Speaker 1: I'm Lauren brad Pacheco and this is Murder on Songbird Road.

32
00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:07,760
Speaker 1: Obtaining the trial transcripts and Julia Beverley's interrogation video had

33
00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:12,000
Speaker 1: been a long, frustrating and arduous process. However, once we

34
00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:16,320
Speaker 1: had them, they provided incredible insights into the prosecution's case

35
00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:20,960
Speaker 1: against Beverly, particularly regarding the investigation. Would you date your

36
00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:21,800
Speaker 1: name so we.

37
00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:24,919
Speaker 7: Have voice identifications, Julia Bethley?

38
00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:28,320
Speaker 2: Can you give me your day of birth Julia.

39
00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:30,040
Speaker 6: For twenty three ninety one?

40
00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:35,080
Speaker 7: And do you have a middle initial E B, E

41
00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:36,359
Speaker 7: B E LA?

42
00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:38,760
Speaker 5: All right?

43
00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:42,840
Speaker 7: And the ninety one four, twenty three, four.

44
00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:45,800
Speaker 1: Twenty three and ninety one right, awesome.

45
00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:48,440
Speaker 2: I'm going to ask you.

46
00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:52,440
Speaker 7: Can you start all over from the beginning what happened home?

47
00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:53,400
Speaker 2: Oh?

48
00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:55,120
Speaker 1: Wait, wait, you sorry?

49
00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:56,239
Speaker 2: You did?

50
00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:59,440
Speaker 1: I need to read the nine of one to the

51
00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:03,079
Speaker 1: left of seated across from two detectives at a small

52
00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:07,160
Speaker 1: table in a compact interrogation room. A sweatshirt clad Beverly

53
00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:10,359
Speaker 1: waved her rights to remain silent and to an attorney

54
00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:13,440
Speaker 1: before agreeing to be questioned for what would end up

55
00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:14,519
Speaker 1: being ours.

56
00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:15,520
Speaker 6: Do you wish to.

57
00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:16,320
Speaker 1: Speak with those today?

58
00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:20,080
Speaker 7: Many get your signature right now on your line.

59
00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:26,400
Speaker 1: The prosecution emphasized her staid demeanor during the investigation, but

60
00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:30,280
Speaker 1: Beverly's emotions are evident when she speaks about finding Jade.

61
00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:35,040
Speaker 6: I realized I didn't have my cards with me. I

62
00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:40,520
Speaker 6: turned around and came back home. Whenever I got home,

63
00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:44,840
Speaker 6: I saw the front door with open. As I went

64
00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:50,120
Speaker 6: to in, he came out and tried to grab the

65
00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:54,880
Speaker 6: knife from him. And at that time, just multiple things,

66
00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:57,960
Speaker 6: They're trying to grab them and stuff, and you got

67
00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:01,040
Speaker 6: cut on my hand. At that point he just ran off.

68
00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:05,480
Speaker 6: I ran in the house, tall boys.

69
00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:07,600
Speaker 2: Everywhere.

70
00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:13,120
Speaker 6: I ran to my dosthroom to grab my rag. I'll

71
00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:15,800
Speaker 6: white my hand real quick because it was bleeding, and

72
00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:21,000
Speaker 6: I ran to go find Jade when I found her

73
00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:22,039
Speaker 6: in the bath groom.

74
00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:27,279
Speaker 1: Before we delve deeper, let's recap the key bad facts

75
00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:30,640
Speaker 1: that ultimately led to Beverly's conviction for the murder of

76
00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:34,920
Speaker 1: Jade Beasley. We have she left Jade alone, she left

77
00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:38,280
Speaker 1: the dogs outside. She said she made it to Walmart.

78
00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:43,280
Speaker 1: That is the number one thing that people who've listened

79
00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:48,279
Speaker 1: to the podcast have hit me up with. They've said,

80
00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:51,960
Speaker 1: why did she lie? Why did she lie? The bulk

81
00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:54,560
Speaker 1: of the case against Beverly was built on the foundation

82
00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:57,800
Speaker 1: of her statements about making it to Walmart. Here in

83
00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:00,760
Speaker 1: Beverly's own words from her entire g on the day

84
00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:04,000
Speaker 1: of the murder is her account as questioned by Williams

85
00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:08,560
Speaker 1: and County detectives Cindy Geittman and Marion Police detective Karl Egemeier.

86
00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:11,839
Speaker 7: When was it that you realized you didn't have your cards?

87
00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:18,760
Speaker 7: When I brought to Walmart, pulled out my purse and

88
00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:22,159
Speaker 7: I was checking my phone, and that's when I realized

89
00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:22,760
Speaker 7: I didn't.

90
00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:27,400
Speaker 6: Have any of my cards with me. Okay, And then

91
00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:29,599
Speaker 6: you came back home. Yeah, okay.

92
00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:34,719
Speaker 1: Later in the interrogation, she's asked for more specifics about

93
00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:35,760
Speaker 1: that Walmart trip.

94
00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:38,000
Speaker 8: Did when you went to Walmart?

95
00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:39,360
Speaker 7: Did you go into Walmart?

96
00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:43,360
Speaker 6: No, I I didn't even get out cause the Finemart

97
00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:46,720
Speaker 6: pitched up my phone and realized I didn't have any

98
00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:47,640
Speaker 6: of my cards with me.

99
00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:50,360
Speaker 7: Okay, but you were in the parking lot.

100
00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:52,080
Speaker 6: Yeah, just a parking moort.

101
00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:52,480
Speaker 2: Okay.

102
00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:58,600
Speaker 1: On face value, the Walmart story appears to be a lie.

103
00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:03,400
Speaker 1: A quick aside. I had actually questioned Beverly extensively about

104
00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:07,240
Speaker 1: that Walmart trip over the phone the day before. And

105
00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:11,440
Speaker 1: you've mentioned the fact that lying is never good, but

106
00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:14,240
Speaker 1: lying to the police is particularly bad.

107
00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:19,120
Speaker 8: Well, I mean, if you're trying to get yourself arrested

108
00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:22,560
Speaker 8: and charged, that's the number one way to do it.

109
00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:28,320
Speaker 8: But again, I cannot stress this enough. It's so easy

110
00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:32,200
Speaker 8: to sit here in your chairs, or in your car,

111
00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:34,520
Speaker 8: or in your bed or wherever you're listening to this

112
00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:38,359
Speaker 8: podcast and think, well, I would never lie to the

113
00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:41,359
Speaker 8: police in that situation. I would tell the truth. And

114
00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:44,320
Speaker 8: again I'm going to restate this. If you've left your

115
00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:49,560
Speaker 8: house for fifteen minutes, okay, and you come back and

116
00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:53,360
Speaker 8: whoever it is, whether it's your kid, your step kid, whoever,

117
00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:58,279
Speaker 8: and you come back and that child has been brutally murdered,

118
00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:02,240
Speaker 8: brutally murdered, and that short of the span of time,

119
00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:06,120
Speaker 8: anybody who thinks that they are not going to think

120
00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:08,200
Speaker 8: that the cops are going to think that I did.

121
00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,800
Speaker 8: It is just not being honest with themselves.

122
00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:14,680
Speaker 1: I have suffer from that same delusion, because it wouldn't

123
00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:16,120
Speaker 1: be the first thing that I'd think of.

124
00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:21,600
Speaker 8: Really, the question for me always with respect to when

125
00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:25,080
Speaker 8: somebody in that situation lies, and we see it all

126
00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:30,520
Speaker 8: the time, is are they lying because they are in

127
00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:35,200
Speaker 8: protection mode? Or are they lying for a situation like

128
00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:39,440
Speaker 8: what Julie's talking about happening like her mind, because that

129
00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:40,119
Speaker 8: was her plan.

130
00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:42,440
Speaker 5: She thought that's what she was going to do.

131
00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:48,080
Speaker 8: When is the first time she mentions the Walmart stop?

132
00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:51,800
Speaker 8: Is it initially before she's brought into the station, or

133
00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:53,480
Speaker 8: is it when she's being interrogated.

134
00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:58,080
Speaker 1: It is I think on scene that she said that's

135
00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:01,200
Speaker 1: where she was going. She was heading to town, and

136
00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:06,080
Speaker 1: then her brain appears to have just filt in the

137
00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:09,840
Speaker 1: missing pieces. So by the time they're in the interrogation,

138
00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:15,000
Speaker 1: she's saying where she always parks because that's the easiest

139
00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:19,960
Speaker 1: place for her to unload the kids without feeling like

140
00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:22,480
Speaker 1: someone's going to park right next to her. Now, I

141
00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:26,480
Speaker 1: did push her in the conversation we had yesterday about that,

142
00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:30,720
Speaker 1: because I said, why did you go to Carbondale? There

143
00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:36,079
Speaker 1: was a local Walmart, Why that Carbondale, And without missing

144
00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:38,200
Speaker 1: a beat, she said, they are a bigger store and

145
00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:40,839
Speaker 1: they still had the Black Friday Bend sales left.

146
00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:45,440
Speaker 8: The bigger issue for me initially was the gap in

147
00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:48,480
Speaker 8: time from the time that she gets home till the

148
00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:51,920
Speaker 8: time that she calls nine to one one. That was

149
00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:55,560
Speaker 8: something that was tough for me to try to stretch

150
00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:56,400
Speaker 8: it out.

151
00:08:56,880 --> 00:09:00,839
Speaker 1: Remember, according to the prosecution's timeline, Beverly failed to dial

152
00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:04,280
Speaker 1: nine to one one for roughly thirty minutes after returning home.

153
00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:08,319
Speaker 8: This period of time, it's hard to account for all

154
00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:10,760
Speaker 8: of it. That has always kind of been my one

155
00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:15,480
Speaker 8: one thing more than anything else. Like, I completely understand

156
00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:19,680
Speaker 8: that when Julia decides that, oh my god, they're coming

157
00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:21,679
Speaker 8: after me, they think I'm the one who did this,

158
00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:25,360
Speaker 8: that she'd try to get herself away from that house

159
00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:25,959
Speaker 8: for longer.

160
00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:28,400
Speaker 5: If you're in her shoes.

161
00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:32,959
Speaker 8: And she's gone what fifteen to twenty minutes, you would realize, Okay, well,

162
00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:37,720
Speaker 8: that seems crazy that somebody like snuck in and did

163
00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:39,880
Speaker 8: this in the time that I just happened to leave

164
00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:40,360
Speaker 8: the house.

165
00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:43,280
Speaker 5: I think that that would probably be running through your mind.

166
00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:48,240
Speaker 1: I agree with you that it's suspect, but we unfortunately

167
00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:53,840
Speaker 1: are at the disadvantage of having to confirm the state's

168
00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:57,960
Speaker 1: timeline because the defense never challenged.

169
00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:03,880
Speaker 8: It right, and it's it's problematic, but it's still explainable

170
00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:07,640
Speaker 8: to me. Because you cannot know how you will respond

171
00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:10,679
Speaker 8: to a situation like that unless.

172
00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:14,160
Speaker 5: You're in it. People can speculate all day long.

173
00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:16,959
Speaker 8: I like to think that if I or on the

174
00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:21,040
Speaker 8: bus or a subway or on an airplane and somebody

175
00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:23,760
Speaker 8: pulled out a shank, that I would jump out of

176
00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:26,560
Speaker 8: my seat and I'd go tackle that person and save

177
00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:27,040
Speaker 8: the day.

178
00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:30,720
Speaker 5: I've had that kind of fantasy dream a million times.

179
00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:34,199
Speaker 5: Would I do that in real life? I have no idea.

180
00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:38,319
Speaker 1: You mentioned the gap in time, and that comes up

181
00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:45,600
Speaker 1: in the interrogation. She actually isn't asked about it. She

182
00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:48,359
Speaker 1: just offers that I found.

183
00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:54,000
Speaker 6: Her unless she could possibly not beat reading, and then

184
00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:58,720
Speaker 6: at that point just was waiting in the kitchen. I know,

185
00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:04,320
Speaker 6: I just kind of went to shut down panic mode.

186
00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:07,960
Speaker 6: I didn't know what to do. I felt like I

187
00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:11,240
Speaker 6: needed to do something for her to do.

188
00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:18,080
Speaker 9: Yeah, Julie shutting down as plausible when you have all

189
00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:23,840
Speaker 9: of those things trying to work their way around in

190
00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:26,360
Speaker 9: your mind and you're trying to make sense of it.

191
00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:29,760
Speaker 8: I could see that being crippling. I can see that

192
00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:35,040
Speaker 8: causing somebody to just freeze up, to freak out.

193
00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:39,360
Speaker 1: The word freeze immediately made me recall conversations I'd had

194
00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:43,000
Speaker 1: with three longtime friends of Beverly, Hillary, Katie, and Leah

195
00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:46,199
Speaker 1: during my first trip to Marian. Here are their combined

196
00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:49,079
Speaker 1: takes on that lapse of time before Beverly called nine

197
00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:49,560
Speaker 1: one one.

198
00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:53,920
Speaker 10: I could see her freezing, like just in horror. I

199
00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:58,200
Speaker 10: can see her just in total shock, like frozen, and

200
00:11:58,240 --> 00:11:59,440
Speaker 10: I can picture her that way.

201
00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:02,720
Speaker 11: I can't even imagine how she even got the phone

202
00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:05,520
Speaker 11: to call. I wouldn't have even had it in me.

203
00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:10,840
Speaker 1: Incidentally, that's Leah, a former military police officer who, like Julie,

204
00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:14,360
Speaker 1: is mixed race and was singled out while attending Beverly's trial,

205
00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:17,720
Speaker 1: but we'll get into that later in Julie's shakes.

206
00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:20,439
Speaker 10: So so how she was able to dial the phone Onnestly,

207
00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:21,239
Speaker 10: I'm so.

208
00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:21,839
Speaker 1: Proud of her.

209
00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:25,800
Speaker 11: I know for a fact that oh Gosh, broke down.

210
00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:29,360
Speaker 11: She can't. She's just very emotional. She can't handle any

211
00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:30,800
Speaker 11: kind of thing without crying.

212
00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:34,920
Speaker 10: What seemed like five seconds to her was probably twenty minutes.

213
00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:39,320
Speaker 10: She's a thinker, so she had everything going far. She

214
00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:42,120
Speaker 10: had I'm the stepmom, I'm the one who found her.

215
00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:45,280
Speaker 10: She had, I'm the mixed one in this white family.

216
00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:47,440
Speaker 10: I am the one of color in this white family

217
00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:51,600
Speaker 10: in this hick southern Illinois town. My girl that I

218
00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:55,000
Speaker 10: raised is gone. How are my kids going to be effective?

219
00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:58,600
Speaker 10: She probably had every bit of that running through her mind.

220
00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:01,160
Speaker 10: Then what would have seemed like a five second thought

221
00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:07,560
Speaker 10: was probably an absolute frozen moment of shock, of straight

222
00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:08,640
Speaker 10: and tears.

223
00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:13,000
Speaker 11: Let's not forget she was attacked by an intruder walking

224
00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:17,200
Speaker 11: into her home, then found her daughter dead. She is

225
00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:19,640
Speaker 11: in shock. No one can tell you how they would

226
00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:23,320
Speaker 11: respond in that situation. I've been in a lot of

227
00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:27,840
Speaker 11: stressful situations, and I've completely shut down at times where

228
00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:32,440
Speaker 11: I wasn't even able to speak, just cry. And I'm

229
00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:38,800
Speaker 11: not as soft as Julie.

230
00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:39,120
Speaker 1: Murder on Songbird Road. We'll be back after the break.

231
00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:50,720
Speaker 1: Now back to Murder on Songbird Road. Back to Bob

232
00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:52,880
Speaker 1: and his take on the time gap before the nine

233
00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:53,600
Speaker 1: to one one call.

234
00:13:54,160 --> 00:14:00,160
Speaker 8: When I first read the Coburger probabill cause Affidavid was

235
00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:02,640
Speaker 8: a phrase that was used, and I think they called

236
00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:07,400
Speaker 8: it frozen shock phase. It was the exact same circumstance.

237
00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:11,400
Speaker 1: Bob is referencing the twenty twenty two Idaho four killings,

238
00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:15,280
Speaker 1: in which four University of Idaho students were fatally stabbed

239
00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:16,640
Speaker 1: in an off campus residence.

240
00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:22,960
Speaker 8: The roommate who saw the suspected killer walking out had

241
00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:27,320
Speaker 8: the bushy eyebrows and then in that case doesn't call

242
00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:31,040
Speaker 8: nine to one one. Ever, nine to one one didn't

243
00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:33,560
Speaker 8: get called till just about noon the following day. She

244
00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:38,320
Speaker 8: sees this stranger in the house at four am, four

245
00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:40,920
Speaker 8: thirty am and doesn't make the call. They use the

246
00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:44,640
Speaker 8: words she was in frozen shock phase. That one's explainable

247
00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:46,720
Speaker 8: to me. It's still a bad fact.

248
00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:46,960
Speaker 5: Though.

249
00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:51,440
Speaker 1: The injuries Beverly claimed resulted from a struggle with the

250
00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:54,720
Speaker 1: knife wielding intruder she says she encountered at the front door,

251
00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:58,040
Speaker 1: along with others she attributed to self harm, were also

252
00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:02,880
Speaker 1: under scrutiny. There was a bitemark on her arm, which

253
00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:07,840
Speaker 1: Beverly attributed to a self inflicted bite. That's when the

254
00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:11,720
Speaker 1: state brought in something that makes you and I both grown,

255
00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:15,720
Speaker 1: and that is bitemark evidence because it has been debunked

256
00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:20,840
Speaker 1: discredited as junk science. There's no shortage of wrongful convictions

257
00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:24,680
Speaker 1: that can be directly attributed to the junk science of

258
00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:30,600
Speaker 1: bitemarks identification and analysis. After a local dentist with no

259
00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:35,080
Speaker 1: forensics training made dental molds, an expert witness in forensic

260
00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:39,520
Speaker 1: odentology testified. The defense raised a continuing objection to the

261
00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:44,040
Speaker 1: witness's testimony, arguing it was inadmissible. However, the judge ruled

262
00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:48,720
Speaker 1: in favor of the prosecution, stating that any observational, not

263
00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:53,800
Speaker 1: theoretical evidence is admissible in court. Meanwhile, a swab from

264
00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:58,080
Speaker 1: Beverly's arm tested positive for Jade's DNA, though it was

265
00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:01,880
Speaker 1: not further analyzed to determine if it was saliva. As

266
00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:05,440
Speaker 1: a result, it remained unclear whether the DNA sample was

267
00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:08,520
Speaker 1: related to the incident or merely household DNA.

268
00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:12,960
Speaker 8: The DNA on the arm to me, was probably the

269
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:16,800
Speaker 8: smoking gun in this case, in conjunction with the lies

270
00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:22,600
Speaker 8: about Walmart out of physical evidence that it existed that

271
00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:27,880
Speaker 8: DNA that they claimed that they that tested positive as

272
00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:32,600
Speaker 8: to being Jades, but they didn't go so far as

273
00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:36,520
Speaker 8: to figure out what the source was they didn't figure

274
00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:41,200
Speaker 8: out if it was saliva blood. It's inexplicable to me, like,

275
00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:43,320
Speaker 8: how are you not figuring that out.

276
00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:49,240
Speaker 1: Nonetheless, an implication was made, supported by the dentist's observations

277
00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:52,360
Speaker 1: that the bite mark was caused by Jade as she

278
00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:56,280
Speaker 1: struggled for her life. However, it's important to remember that

279
00:16:56,320 --> 00:17:01,080
Speaker 1: the prosecution also argued that Beverly had thoroughly cleaned herself

280
00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:04,360
Speaker 1: after the murder to eliminate any evidence from her body.

281
00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:08,240
Speaker 8: Here's Bob, that's going to be the primary wound that

282
00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:10,359
Speaker 8: you're going to try to clean off if you know

283
00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:15,480
Speaker 8: that Jade bit you. So again, it's insane to think

284
00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:19,919
Speaker 8: that that would remain the one area where they found

285
00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:22,639
Speaker 8: Jade's DNA, because it would have been the one area

286
00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:25,879
Speaker 8: that she would have been sure to have cleaned off

287
00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:26,960
Speaker 8: the most thoroughly.

288
00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:32,040
Speaker 1: Furthermore, in twenty twenty two, the National Institute of Standards

289
00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:36,560
Speaker 1: and Technology reviewed the scientific foundations of bitemark analysis, concluding

290
00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:40,119
Speaker 1: there was insufficient data to support its validity as a

291
00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:44,720
Speaker 1: forensic technique. But what's even more significant the ARMSWAB taken

292
00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:46,879
Speaker 1: from Beverly on the day of the murder, which the

293
00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:50,719
Speaker 1: prosecution used to tie the bitemark to jade, despite the

294
00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:54,320
Speaker 1: fact it wasn't confirmed to be saliva. That swab was

295
00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:59,080
Speaker 1: the only DNA sample from Beverly that was actually tested.

296
00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:05,040
Speaker 1: You heard that correctly. None of Beverly's hand swabs, fingernail scrapings,

297
00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:09,120
Speaker 1: finger wounds, scratches on her forehead, or clothing were tested.

298
00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:13,400
Speaker 1: The only evidence analyzed from that DNA collection was that

299
00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:18,960
Speaker 1: one arm swab. How do you have all of her

300
00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:22,440
Speaker 1: DNA and you only test one thing.

301
00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:25,159
Speaker 5: It's unbelievable to me.

302
00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:29,359
Speaker 1: What's also hard to believe is who was deciding what

303
00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:33,040
Speaker 1: evidence was or wasn't tested. A particular excerpt from the

304
00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:36,600
Speaker 1: preliminary hearing transcript stood out to us right away. In it,

305
00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:40,560
Speaker 1: Julie Beverly's defense attorney is cross examining Cindy Geittman, the

306
00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:44,480
Speaker 1: lead detective. It's also worth noting again that this was

307
00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:49,080
Speaker 1: Geatman's first and last time leading a murder investigation, as

308
00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:52,199
Speaker 1: she has since retired. Bob and I will read that

309
00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:53,920
Speaker 1: exchange for batim.

310
00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:58,920
Speaker 8: So every piece of physical evidence would have at least

311
00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:00,000
Speaker 8: come into your journey.

312
00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:00,359
Speaker 5: Stiction.

313
00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:04,000
Speaker 8: You were the one that decides what goes to the

314
00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:04,879
Speaker 8: lab for testing.

315
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:06,440
Speaker 1: Correct incorrect.

316
00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:08,920
Speaker 5: Who does make that decision?

317
00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:13,440
Speaker 1: At the time, at the beginning of trial, we were

318
00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:17,800
Speaker 1: using the Williamson County States Attorney's office, and Assistant State's

319
00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:22,800
Speaker 1: Attorney Lisa Irvin was the one that directed me on

320
00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:26,400
Speaker 1: what evidence to send to the state Police Lab for testing.

321
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:30,520
Speaker 8: Okay, do you have any independent discretion in your own

322
00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:34,680
Speaker 8: investigation to determine what items should or should not be tested,

323
00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:38,160
Speaker 8: or what items you would suggest be tested.

324
00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:44,080
Speaker 1: I suggested items, and by my training it was I

325
00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:47,120
Speaker 1: was supposed to use her as the final decision on

326
00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:52,800
Speaker 1: what items were taken to the state lab. So was

327
00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:57,720
Speaker 1: the prosecution essentially dictating the scope of the lead investigator's investigation.

328
00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:01,360
Speaker 1: I've reached out multiple times to the current State's attorney

329
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:05,360
Speaker 1: for clarification on whether this is standard protocol in Williamson County,

330
00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:09,520
Speaker 1: but to date I've yet to receive a response. Meanwhile,

331
00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:11,120
Speaker 1: Bob's not exactly shocked.

332
00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:13,560
Speaker 5: I mean, there's some truth to it.

333
00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:17,040
Speaker 8: They can't test everything, and they are allowed to cherry

334
00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:20,720
Speaker 8: pick evidence. They are allowed to pick and choose, even

335
00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:26,160
Speaker 8: though in theory they do have unlimited resources and they

336
00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:28,960
Speaker 8: do have a state lab that they're sending these things to.

337
00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:33,560
Speaker 8: When you're talking to lay people about it, They're not

338
00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:36,560
Speaker 8: going to like the answer. Well, they should be testing everything.

339
00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:39,000
Speaker 8: We're trying to get to the truth here, But the

340
00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:41,720
Speaker 8: reality is that they just don't test everything.

341
00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:48,640
Speaker 1: There's everything, and then there's what you would absolutely assume

342
00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:52,720
Speaker 1: they had tested, because it doesn't make sense that they

343
00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:57,760
Speaker 1: didn't test things like Julia Beverly's nail scrapings. If you're

344
00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:03,280
Speaker 1: so sure that she is guilty, why wouldn't you test

345
00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:06,920
Speaker 1: the swabs of her fingers on her hands, which were

346
00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:12,440
Speaker 1: covered with blood from what she contends were her defensive

347
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:15,199
Speaker 1: wounds when she was met by the assailant, but what

348
00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:19,399
Speaker 1: the state contends were wounds that she sustained while she

349
00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:22,600
Speaker 1: was murdering Jade. Either which way, how do you not

350
00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:26,679
Speaker 1: test her nail scrapings? It would have been a slam dunk.

351
00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:28,000
Speaker 5: It's unexplainable.

352
00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:30,480
Speaker 8: You're asking me to answer a question that I couldn't

353
00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:33,959
Speaker 8: possibly answer because it makes no sense at all. Like

354
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:37,480
Speaker 8: you said, it either opens and shuts the case immediately

355
00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:43,000
Speaker 8: because she's got Jade's skin under her fingernails and the

356
00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:47,960
Speaker 8: case is done, or it's somebody else's What I take

357
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:52,679
Speaker 8: from it, more than anything else is not that the

358
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:56,080
Speaker 8: state was cherry picking evidence that they wanted to test

359
00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:59,400
Speaker 8: it because they wanted to keep a very narrow focus

360
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:03,080
Speaker 8: potentially who this could have been that done it. And

361
00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:05,280
Speaker 8: I hate to do it to a fellow defense attorney,

362
00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:08,600
Speaker 8: but when you start getting the police reports in, there's

363
00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,160
Speaker 8: a million things that they should be testing, and they're

364
00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:16,240
Speaker 8: not testing any of them. I am filing emotion getting

365
00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:19,760
Speaker 8: in front of the judge and asking the judge that

366
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:23,040
Speaker 8: they order even if you have to narrow it down,

367
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:25,600
Speaker 8: like they're clearly not going to pay to test everything,

368
00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:28,480
Speaker 8: but I'm going to narrow down the three or four

369
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:33,680
Speaker 8: most critical pieces of evidence that I absolutely think could

370
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:35,640
Speaker 8: be exculpatory to my client.

371
00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:37,840
Speaker 5: I'm going to go in.

372
00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:40,440
Speaker 8: I'm at least making a record of it, even if

373
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:42,720
Speaker 8: the judge is going to deny it. I'm making a

374
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,760
Speaker 8: record because you know what, that's powerful on appeal.

375
00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:47,600
Speaker 1: I was just going to say, I think that a

376
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:51,800
Speaker 1: lot of people don't understand that your hands are tied

377
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:56,399
Speaker 1: on appeal by things that were raised as issues during trial.

378
00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:00,720
Speaker 1: As we've seen, we have some very real issues, but

379
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:04,000
Speaker 1: the fact that they weren't raised by her defense attorney

380
00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:08,320
Speaker 1: means that they cannot be tackled in the appeal. Honestly,

381
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:13,680
Speaker 1: the way in which her newborn son was immediately removed

382
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:17,520
Speaker 1: while she was a pre trial detainee speaks volumes to

383
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:22,520
Speaker 1: me in terms of lack of presumption of innocence. That

384
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:26,919
Speaker 1: wasn't raised during the trial. What was raised during the trial, however,

385
00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:30,040
Speaker 1: was something Beverly has remained consistent about since the day

386
00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:33,080
Speaker 1: of the murder. Her description of the alleged assailant.

387
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:34,920
Speaker 2: Can you describe him for it?

388
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:44,359
Speaker 6: As black clothes, I mean, average bill, maybe a little muscular.

389
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:45,560
Speaker 7: Not I mean, couldn't really tell.

390
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:51,480
Speaker 6: He had like a fe mask so I could see

391
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:56,119
Speaker 6: from here, I could tell he's white.

392
00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:57,960
Speaker 1: And then.

393
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:06,440
Speaker 6: You little taller and me maybe a few inches or so.

394
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:10,480
Speaker 1: Beverly has always described the male she says she encountered

395
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,040
Speaker 1: that December day as around five foot five or so.

396
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:17,000
Speaker 1: But as mentioned before, why if the guy is a

397
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:20,720
Speaker 1: fictional scapegoat, wouldn't she have made a made up man

398
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:24,800
Speaker 1: sound more imposing. Granted, Beverly's only four foot eleven, but

399
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 1: the average height for American men is five feet nine inches,

400
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 1: and her then fiance, Mike Beasley stands about six foot

401
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 1: Why if she was said on creating someone else to blame.

402
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:38,400
Speaker 1: Would she have said this to police.

403
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:41,320
Speaker 6: Always, I've lest her.

404
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,040
Speaker 7: You were there with her, you were there for her.

405
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:47,600
Speaker 11: I should to just take her Wedsday.

406
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 1: Co In the interrogation, Beverly even says, this is my fault.

407
00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:58,880
Speaker 1: I should have taken her with me. This is my fault,

408
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:04,159
Speaker 1: which speaks to her innocence. I mean that speaks to

409
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 1: her innocence. It does, so does something else. You'll remember

410
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,399
Speaker 1: from our last episode that police were advised of a

411
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,360
Speaker 1: male fitting the description Beverly gave in terms of clothing.

412
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:18,680
Speaker 1: From the CAD reports, Marian advised they saw a male

413
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:22,159
Speaker 1: wearing a black hoodie walking on Buckley about fifty yards

414
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:26,440
Speaker 1: westbound off Corey League. An officer named Sloan was sent

415
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 1: to investigate. Here's his testimony from Beverly's trial, which Bob

416
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:31,720
Speaker 1: and I will read.

417
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,439
Speaker 8: Officer Welgi, I believe, advised for me to check on

418
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:37,439
Speaker 8: a person that was wearing a black hoodie or a

419
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:39,640
Speaker 8: black jacket that was walking on Buckley Road.

420
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 5: I believe is the name of the road. So I

421
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 5: did that.

422
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 1: So Officer Welgi went to the residence.

423
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:48,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, he continued on, and I stopped.

424
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:51,720
Speaker 1: You stopped. Did you get out of your car?

425
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:52,400
Speaker 6: Yes?

426
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 7: I did.

427
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,359
Speaker 1: And did you talk to the person in the black hoodie?

428
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 5: Yes? I did.

429
00:25:57,680 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 1: Did you identify that person?

430
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 8: I don't believe I identified her. Uh?

431
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 1: Was it female?

432
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 5: Yes? Okay.

433
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:08,879
Speaker 2: Did you speak with her?

434
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:10,200
Speaker 5: Yeah?

435
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:14,200
Speaker 8: She was walking your dog or looking for her dog

436
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 8: or something to do with her dog.

437
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:17,120
Speaker 5: She was looking for a.

438
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 1: Dog in the area, and you were able to confirm

439
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 1: she lived in that area.

440
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:24,200
Speaker 5: Yes, she's a resident.

441
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:28,639
Speaker 1: Okay, After you spoke with a female, did you what

442
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 1: did you do next?

443
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 8: I continued to Songbird to assist Officer Welgi.

444
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:39,679
Speaker 1: Here's Beverly's defense attorney's cross examination, Officer Sloan, Did you

445
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 1: prepare a written report in this case?

446
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:43,480
Speaker 5: Yes, ma'am I did.

447
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 1: In that report. Did you mention any contact with this

448
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 1: individual wearing a black hoodie on Buckley Road?

449
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 6: No?

450
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:52,359
Speaker 5: I did not.

451
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 1: Did you when you stopped to identify this person? Did

452
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:56,920
Speaker 1: you get a name?

453
00:26:57,840 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 5: I do not believe so.

454
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 1: Did you get an address?

455
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:03,879
Speaker 5: I do not believe so.

456
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 1: How long did this contact occur?

457
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,920
Speaker 8: Guessing probably moments, A couple of minutes.

458
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,159
Speaker 1: Maybe like a whole couple of minutes.

459
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 5: I assume I didn't. I didn't. I didn't time it.

460
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 1: Okay, did this person have a dog with them?

461
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 5: I don't recall seeing a dog.

462
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 1: Okay, so if you reported back that this individual was

463
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 1: walking a dog, that would have been an error.

464
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:34,919
Speaker 8: I said she was either walking a dog or she

465
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 8: said something she was walking or looking for her dog

466
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 8: or something.

467
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 1: But you don't recall if the dog was there.

468
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:44,879
Speaker 5: I do not believe so.

469
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:49,440
Speaker 1: But this person was dressed in black? Is that correct?

470
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:51,640
Speaker 5: She had a black hoodie on.

471
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,120
Speaker 1: All right, So this, to me is such an interesting

472
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:02,400
Speaker 1: exchange because Officer Sloan didn't get her name or address,

473
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 1: but knew she was a resident, couldn't remember if she

474
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:10,159
Speaker 1: was walking a dog or looking for a dog, but

475
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:14,920
Speaker 1: remembered the color of her hoodie, and did not make

476
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:20,399
Speaker 1: any official note or report of this interaction.

477
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 8: Yeah, it's got zero evidentiary value. Again, themes should have

478
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:32,640
Speaker 8: filed emotion in Lemonae barring this entire line of testimony.

479
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 5: The only reason that.

480
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 8: Mudge asked that question was in order to say that, oh, yeah,

481
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 8: I saw a woman in a black hoodie. I spoke

482
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 8: to her. She was looking for her dog or she

483
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 8: was walking her dog, to just discredit the black hoodie situation.

484
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 8: Oh yeah, we found the person.

485
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 1: That It wasn't a guy, it was a woman. She

486
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 1: lives in the neighborhood. But I didn't get her name.

487
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 1: I don't remember she had a dog. Didn't get her address,

488
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 1: but she lives in the neighbor It seems really disingenuous

489
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 1: to me.

490
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 8: It is disingenuous, and it completely undermines Julie's story in

491
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:12,720
Speaker 8: One Fell Swoop. And it's got no evidentiary value. It

492
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 8: shouldn't have been allowed in if they can't prove it

493
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 8: in terms of it's not written in a report that

494
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 8: it doesn't exist anywhere other than this cops memory. I mean,

495
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:28,640
Speaker 8: how much weight can you give that they're offering it

496
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 8: for one reason, and one reason alone, because of the

497
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 8: mention of a black hoodie that was it.

498
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 1: I find it very interesting too, just a coincidence, But

499
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 1: Sloan was one of the officers who responded to Aaron

500
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 1: Luton that morning and let him go the first time.

501
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 1: Murder on Songbird Road will continue after the break. Now

502
00:29:55,920 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 1: back to Murder on Songbird Road. Next, we turned to

503
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 1: the collection of Beverly's DNA on the day of the murder.

504
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 1: After Beverly voluntarily agreed to be questioned without an attorney.

505
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:11,480
Speaker 1: She also consented to the collection of her DNA from

506
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 1: both her person and her clothing. The entire collection process

507
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 1: was videotaped.

508
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 6: It's all good about for seconds of.

509
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 11: Hello running Mat.

510
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 5: From with the stake leaf.

511
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 1: Matt is Matt Deschamps, a member of the Illinois State

512
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 1: Police Crime scene Unit. What struck us immediately was that

513
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 1: Deschamps entered the room wearing gloves, propping the door open

514
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 1: with his left hand as he entered. Then, without hesitation,

515
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 1: he began handling the folders belonging to the detectives who

516
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 1: had just interviewed Beverly, moving them to the side with

517
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 1: both gloved hands.

518
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 7: So, first of all, tonight, then I think to pictures

519
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 7: of us to document your what you're wearing.

520
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 1: And he then adjusted the camera around his neck, still

521
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 1: wearing the same gloves, changing them not once.

522
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 6: If you want you have a shirt on or in

523
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 6: your hoodie, do you want to take that off?

524
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 11: You didn't have anything in your pocket that you do?

525
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 6: Great, A little bit lower, sorry, thank you, and we

526
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 6: wonder take it the world and to go closer bunting child,

527
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 6: I camera.

528
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 2: Being correct.

529
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 7: If you have any more scrapes or any other injuries

530
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 7: on your arms.

531
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 1: You know that, In fact, Deschamps collected all samples while

532
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 1: wearing the same set of gloves, which came into contact

533
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 1: with multiple objects throughout the procedure. This appears to be

534
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 1: in clear violation of the Illinois State Police's Clean Technique Protocol,

535
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:55,720
Speaker 1: which mandates that investigators use disposable gloves during sample collection

536
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 1: and exercise caution to prevent gloves from coming into contact

537
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 1: with anything that could contaminate the evidence. The protocol further

538
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 1: instructs investigators to check gloves periodically for contamination and change

539
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 1: them frequently. Additionally, it specifies that the wearer should avoid

540
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 1: touching their bare skin, such as the face or arms,

541
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 1: while wearing gloves.

542
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 7: And then what about I'm going to get you get

543
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 7: a little cupture on your chin that I want to

544
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:27,480
Speaker 7: take a picture of.

545
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 6: And an up your way your eyebrow.

546
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 1: The video clearly shows to Shaps touching his own face

547
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 1: with his gloved hands while referencing Beverly's injuries. He also

548
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 1: reaches into his pocket for a ruler and later a pen,

549
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 1: retrieving them multiple times. Observing this, I began documenting each

550
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 1: potential instance of contamination on a Google doc which I

551
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 1: later shared with this woman.

552
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 2: My name's Katie Hartman, and I worked with the Creme

553
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 2: Scene Unit in Louisbo, Kentucky.

554
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 1: And how long did you work in that capacity?

555
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 2: Eleven years for the unit itself.

556
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 1: And you were in law enforcement for even longer than that, correct, Yes.

557
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 2: I was in law enforcement for.

558
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 1: Twenty one now retired. Hartman has earned an impeccable reputation

559
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 1: throughout her decades long career and is also married to

560
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 1: a former detective. Are there standard protocols for collecting DNA

561
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 1: samples from a suspect?

562
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 2: Yes, standard, and they can be different from state to

563
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 2: state because each state has their own labs as far

564
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 2: as they are affiliated with police department or any other

565
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 2: law enforcement entity. Those protocols let us know how they

566
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 2: want that evidence collected and what that does. It enables

567
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 2: them to do the best possible testing without contamination.

568
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 1: How often would you, hypothetically, if you had to test

569
00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 1: four different things, how often would you change your gloves?

570
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 2: Very often, especially when you're dealing with DNA or gunshot

571
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:10,319
Speaker 2: residue where you're touching the other person's hands or the

572
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:13,640
Speaker 2: other person's body. You want to change gloves in between

573
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 2: hands even really, yes, the best thing you can do

574
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 2: is change your gloves constantly, make sure that you're not

575
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 2: also touching anything else and transferring anything that might topically

576
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:33,319
Speaker 2: be on something of fibers, liquids, anything onto another piece

577
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:36,359
Speaker 2: of evidence by doing so when you're touching something else.

578
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,840
Speaker 1: I asked Hartman to review the video of Beverly's DNA

579
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:42,360
Speaker 1: collection and this was her response.

580
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:44,680
Speaker 2: There was a lot of red flags. Let me say

581
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 2: that got it. If I was training him, I would

582
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:49,720
Speaker 2: have stopped him and said, you need to change your gloves,

583
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 2: you know, because he was taking samples of her fingernails

584
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:54,360
Speaker 2: and everything.

585
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:59,279
Speaker 1: Then after all that, he holds the sweatshirt she's just

586
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:03,279
Speaker 1: removed with both hands again with the gloves that he's

587
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:06,719
Speaker 1: touched everything, folding it for several seconds, and then the

588
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 1: ungloved female detective continues to hold the collection bag to assist.

589
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 2: And again that goes back to training, you know, the

590
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:18,440
Speaker 2: ungloved detective. You know, I can't say I never had

591
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 2: ungloved detectives touching my stuff. But at the same time,

592
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 2: most of our detectives thankfully made themselves aware of the

593
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 2: possibility across contamination and they would glove up if they

594
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:32,759
Speaker 2: were going to be in the room with you.

595
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 1: And that sweatshirt further played into something called chain of custody.

596
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:43,319
Speaker 2: Chain and custody simply is what happens to a piece

597
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 2: of evidence, including DNA is a piece of evidence. Blood

598
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:54,240
Speaker 2: is evidence. So all these things are documented in where

599
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:57,720
Speaker 2: they go, who has them, what time they went, there

600
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:03,360
Speaker 2: was anybody else involved in the handling of that said evidence.

601
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 2: So what you're doing is you're creating a timeline that's

602
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 2: a chain of custody. If you're in the chain, then

603
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 2: that means you had something to do with this case,

604
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:19,080
Speaker 2: either rightly so or negative Philly. So it protects the

605
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:23,880
Speaker 2: person and the case, It protects the suspect, it protects

606
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 2: the victim. It needs to be completely untouched by anyone

607
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 2: that's not involved.

608
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 1: I bring it up because the bag containing Beverly's sweatshirt,

609
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,399
Speaker 1: the one Deschamps touched with his gloved hands while an

610
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 1: ungloved Cyndi Geittman helped place it inside, that was left

611
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 1: in the interrogation room after Deschamps departed. This resulted in

612
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:47,760
Speaker 1: a break in the chain of custody for an item

613
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 1: that could have held crucial DNA evidence from the alleged

614
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:55,359
Speaker 1: assailant Beverly claims to have encountered. Now back to Katie Hartman.

615
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,719
Speaker 2: That really bothered me. Then he left some evidence in there.

616
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, he left her clothing in the back beyond.

617
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:03,919
Speaker 2: That bothered me. And then the tecta just through picked

618
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:05,200
Speaker 2: it up through the corner.

619
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 1: Which means that the chain of custody was disrupted. Yeah,

620
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:13,800
Speaker 1: Bob and I have discussed Matt Deschamp's evidence collection at length,

621
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:18,240
Speaker 1: so it's of note also that he processed the crime

622
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 1: scene and Beverly's car. We don't have any video of

623
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 1: the protocol he followed during that, but when he knew

624
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 1: he was being videotaped, it was pretty noteworthy. Do you

625
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 1: have any thoughts you want to add on that.

626
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 8: The collection, Look, it's always one of our primary tools

627
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:42,239
Speaker 8: and our tool belt as defense attorneys to attack the

628
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:46,640
Speaker 8: investigation the collection of evidence, and this one was.

629
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:51,319
Speaker 5: Worse than most. The problem with.

630
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:54,880
Speaker 8: It from the defense side of it is it's a

631
00:37:54,880 --> 00:38:00,120
Speaker 8: bit of a double edged sword in that theoretically, if

632
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 8: exculpatory DNA evidence was found, that too, in theory could be.

633
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 5: Tainted, you know, So it's like it's just a shame.

634
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:10,759
Speaker 5: It's a shame that.

635
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:15,399
Speaker 8: It wasn't done properly, and I don't know that there's

636
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 8: anything that you can do to fix it.

637
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 1: Katie Hartman remains more troubled by what wasn't tested, including

638
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 1: Beverly's fingernail scrapings and finger swabs.

639
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 2: Not upset me. That disturbed me because your job as

640
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:33,280
Speaker 2: a crime scene person sometimes it's hard not to be biased.

641
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna lie. It's very hard, very hard, especially

642
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:40,440
Speaker 2: if you see a lot of things through the years.

643
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:43,880
Speaker 2: But your job is still to prove or disprove what

644
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 2: someone is being accused of and try to find out

645
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 2: who did it, not who they think did it, but

646
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:56,120
Speaker 2: prove or disprove if this person who has been accused

647
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 2: did it. Those far nail scrapings, the clothing, all of

648
00:38:59,880 --> 00:39:03,880
Speaker 2: it that wasn't sent could prove or disprove her story.

649
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 1: Absolutely in your personal experience, who would dictate what should

650
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 1: or should not be sent for testing to the state lab.

651
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 2: Our head detective and the crime scene person. I've never

652
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 2: had anybody but a lead detective or a detective or

653
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:23,799
Speaker 2: a police officer who I was working in case with

654
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:27,279
Speaker 2: and worked with me on the lab. No one else

655
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:28,800
Speaker 2: has told me what to send to the lab.

656
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:33,240
Speaker 1: So it would be unusual, in your experience or opinion,

657
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 1: for the prosecutor's office to dictate exactly what should and

658
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:38,319
Speaker 1: should not be sent.

659
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:42,360
Speaker 2: I've never had that happen. Now I have had prosecutor

660
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:45,239
Speaker 2: to ask me, can you resend something? Or is there

661
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 2: still anything left of this piece of evidence to do

662
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 2: an additional testing. You know, they do get involved in

663
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:53,960
Speaker 2: that type of thing, but I've never had any of

664
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:59,319
Speaker 2: them be the sole person to tell me or a

665
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:00,480
Speaker 2: detective what stand.

666
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 1: This is how Special Prosecutor Jennifer Mudge addressed selective testing

667
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 1: in our closing argument. So now we're in CSI Miami

668
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:12,239
Speaker 1: and we have to test every single thing that was

669
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 1: in that house. No, this is the real world. We

670
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:16,239
Speaker 1: can't do that.

671
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 8: Yeah, you don't make that statement publicly ever, let alone

672
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:27,879
Speaker 8: a trial. It's just one of those things that you know,

673
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:30,800
Speaker 8: there's some truth to it. They're not going to test everything.

674
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:31,360
Speaker 5: They're just not.

675
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:36,240
Speaker 8: But all the critical things, which had they been brought

676
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:41,600
Speaker 8: up on cross examination, would have absolutely laid.

677
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 5: Waste to the state's case.

678
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:46,480
Speaker 8: You have to point the finger at who it needs

679
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:49,359
Speaker 8: to be pointed at it shouldn't be you and I

680
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 8: on a podcast being the first two people to point

681
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:55,400
Speaker 8: this out publicly.

682
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 5: That should have happened a trial.

683
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:01,840
Speaker 8: Because it's a big d Is that unusual for the

684
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:04,239
Speaker 8: state to do it? No, not necessarily, but it is

685
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:06,359
Speaker 8: unusual for a defense attorney not.

686
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 5: To point it out. All the things that they should

687
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 5: have tested.

688
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 1: One could argue that things that would implicate Beverly were tested,

689
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:19,480
Speaker 1: while anything that could possibly vindicate her was purposely not tested.

690
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 1: Her nail scrapings and her finger swaps aside. It was

691
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:27,319
Speaker 1: our impression that only Julia Beverly's phone was subjected to

692
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:32,319
Speaker 1: forensic examination. When we talk about a timeline, you have

693
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:35,800
Speaker 1: an eleven year old who's at home with a smartphone,

694
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 1: a Chrome book, a laptop, and a gaming device. If

695
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 1: there was any activity on those devices after ten fifteen

696
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:53,120
Speaker 1: or during the time that Beverly is caught on camera

697
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:58,560
Speaker 1: at HUCKS, that it's game over, is exculpatory.

698
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:02,800
Speaker 8: Game over, It destroys, it completely destroys the state's timeline.

699
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:07,960
Speaker 8: That means that she's alive and well while Julie's allegedly

700
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 8: dumping all the bloody closed murder weapon in a Huk's

701
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 8: garbage can.

702
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:16,239
Speaker 5: I mean it just it destroys their timeline.

703
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:19,560
Speaker 1: In December twenty twenty four, in response to a Freedom

704
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 1: of Information Act request, the Illinois Office of the State's

705
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 1: Attorney's A Pellet prosecutor, confirmed that none of Jade Beasley's

706
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:32,400
Speaker 1: electronic devices were forensically tested. None. Why like the testing

707
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:35,040
Speaker 1: of Beverly's nail scrapings, it would have potentially been a

708
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 1: slam dunk for the prosecution.

709
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 5: It's insane.

710
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:41,640
Speaker 8: When we learned of that fact, I bout lost my mind.

711
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:44,919
Speaker 8: I mean, in the day and age that we live

712
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:51,560
Speaker 8: in where forensic device examination has now become the primary

713
00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:57,640
Speaker 8: way that they are getting convictions on cases, solving cases.

714
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:04,600
Speaker 8: To think that that they didn't even look at any

715
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 8: of those devices to find out if Jade was active

716
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 8: in order to build a timeline, a real timeline, is.

717
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:16,680
Speaker 5: Unbelievable to me.

718
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:22,520
Speaker 8: This thing slides into the ineffective assistance of council column

719
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:26,319
Speaker 8: very very easily, because you have to challenge things in

720
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:31,360
Speaker 8: court on the record, and when you don't do it, it

721
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:33,239
Speaker 8: creates a massive problem.

722
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 1: And now the question was who or what would be

723
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:43,239
Speaker 1: able to fix it on the next murder on Songbird Road,

724
00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:46,840
Speaker 1: access to Hucks footage raises new issues.

725
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 8: Does it mean that I don't think there's any way

726
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:52,160
Speaker 8: in hell that that's what she was disposing of?

727
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:52,719
Speaker 5: There?

728
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:57,000
Speaker 1: Absolutely compounded by observations about Beverly.

729
00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:59,680
Speaker 10: She didn't like blood, she didn't like violence.

730
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 1: Before her legal team morphs in a major way.

731
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:04,440
Speaker 5: If anyone can get Julie out, it's her.

732
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:09,959
Speaker 1: Murder on Songbird Road is a production of iHeart Podcasts.

733
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Taylor Chackoine and Lauren Bright Pacheco.

734
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:19,000
Speaker 1: Research writing and hosting by Lauren Bright Pacheco. Investigative reporting

735
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 1: by Bob Matta and Lauren Bright Pacheco, editing, sound design

736
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:27,080
Speaker 1: and original music by Evan Tyre and Taylor Chackoine. Additional

737
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:31,000
Speaker 1: music by Asher Kurtz. Please like, subscribe, and leave us

738
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:34,160
Speaker 1: a review. Wherever you're listening, you can follow me on

739
00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:37,319
Speaker 1: all platforms at Lauren Bright Pacheco and email the show

740
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:42,239
Speaker 1: with thought, suggestions or tips at Investigating Murder at iHeartMedia

741
00:44:42,239 --> 00:45:06,360
Speaker 1: dot com. For more iHeart podcasts, visit the iHeartRadio app,

742
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:10,440
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. Thanks

743
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:10,960
Speaker 1: for listening,