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Speaker 1: Hey, film Spotters, Adam and Josh. Here. You know, the

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Speaker 1: film Spotting Archive has a lot, it has reviews, it's

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Speaker 1: got top fives and more going back to two thousand

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Speaker 1: and five. And if you want access to that full archive,

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Speaker 1: just become a member of the Film Spotting Family. That's

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Speaker 1: one of the benefits you get, and you can learn

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Speaker 1: more about that at film spottingfamily dot com. Now we've

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Speaker 1: got a new Paul Thomas Anderson film this week, so

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Speaker 1: we're going to dip into that archive for our review

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Speaker 1: of Magnolia, which wasn't all that long ago, right, Adam.

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Speaker 2: No, No, twenty nineteen. It was part of our nine

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Speaker 2: from ninety nine series. Yeah, we're getting ready for one

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Speaker 2: battle after another. We're seeing it this weekend. We'll talk

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Speaker 2: about it on next week's episode. Nine from ninety nine

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Speaker 2: was fun. Of course, that was jam pack because nineteen

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Speaker 2: ninety nine is one of our all time great movie years.

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Speaker 2: We talked about the matrix being John Malkovich, the Blair

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Speaker 2: Witch Project, the Sixth Sense, Fight Club, Eyes Wide shut.

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Speaker 1: Wait wait wait wait wait you skipped over muffle my

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Speaker 1: Mouth Star Wars episode one. Uh huh, I think you

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Speaker 1: also missed American beauty.

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Speaker 2: Oh kay, we talked about those two. You know, we

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Speaker 2: had to reckon with the entire year. And yes, we

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Speaker 2: also revisited Magnolia. People are gonna hear this just before

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Speaker 2: they hear us talk about on Friday and we share

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Speaker 2: the results to the current deeply flawed, deeply troubling, more

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Speaker 2: like film spotting pole question. Actually, they won't hear the

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Speaker 2: results because we're setting up the new question that people

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Speaker 2: can vote in right now, the PTA Decade's Poll. Do

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Speaker 2: you keep you can only keep one decade. Do you

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Speaker 2: keep the nineties that has boogie nights in Magnolia? Or

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Speaker 2: do you keep the two thousands? Or do you keep

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Speaker 2: the twenty tens. We're leaving out the twenty twenties for now.

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Speaker 2: It's such a tough choice, Josh. And maybe people listening

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Speaker 2: to us talk about Magnolia will make them think that

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Speaker 2: the nineties is the decade they have to hold onto.

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Speaker 1: It's probably it's probably going to give the nineties a

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Speaker 1: little bit of a bump in that poll for now.

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Speaker 1: From November twenty nineteen. Here is that nine from ninety

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Speaker 1: nine review of Magnolia.

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Speaker 3: There is the story of a boy.

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Speaker 1: Genius Thomas Kate Jong, the Peaceful, Cleanly Year, and the

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Speaker 1: game show is Jimmy Gator Live from Burbank, California.

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Speaker 3: First question for twenty five.

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Speaker 4: This French playwriting actor joined the Beijar group of actors

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Speaker 4: and the ex.

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Speaker 3: Boy genius Chrisky Donny Smith. I used to be smart.

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Speaker 3: Now I'm just stupid. There is the story of the

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Speaker 3: Dying Man. I'm Marl Partry.

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Speaker 4: I have a son you now you do find him?

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Speaker 3: I'm right TJ Mcki his lost son.

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Speaker 5: What did he say?

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Speaker 2: Because I Am not going to take care of him?

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Speaker 3: What's he want? The dying man's wife, I'm in departres.

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Speaker 3: I took care of him through this Alan what now?

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Speaker 4: And then me and him?

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Speaker 3: Do you understand there's no one else? No one else

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Speaker 3: the caretaker. I'm Phil Parma.

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Speaker 6: See this is the scene of the movie where you've

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Speaker 6: helped me up.

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Speaker 3: And there's the story of a mother.

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Speaker 2: Unlike Paul Thomas Anderson, sadly, my creativity couldn't match my ambition.

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Speaker 2: This week I started learning the guitar chords and rewriting

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Speaker 2: the lyrics to Amy Mann's Wise Up before I realized

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Speaker 2: I just wasn't going to be able to pull off

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Speaker 2: singing your setup. Oh wow, that's no joke.

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Speaker 1: I started, Oh, don't tease me.

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Speaker 2: It could have been great, So I'm taking an easier

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Speaker 2: route instead one already paved for me. You asked whether

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Speaker 2: Pta was already a master filmmaker in ninety nine or

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Speaker 2: if he was still warming up with Magnolia, and an

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Speaker 2: av club piece from August described the film as quote

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Speaker 2: exactly the kind of thing an artsy kid with all

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Speaker 2: the feelings would write. It's also the kind of thing

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Speaker 2: that begs for the red pen end quote, and earlier

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Speaker 2: this week in the Film Spotting newsletter, our producer Sam

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Speaker 2: took a similar tack, comparing PTA's sprawling, intense day in

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Speaker 2: the life of several somewhat randomly connected Southern Californians to

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Speaker 2: Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club band. It's become conventional wisdom,

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Speaker 2: according to Sam, to consider the five or so years

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Speaker 2: prior to two thousand and sevens there will be blood

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Speaker 2: as a quote sort of gestation period where Paul Thomas

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Speaker 2: Anderson transformed from a wonder kind with more talent than wisdom,

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Speaker 2: eager to show off how thoroughly he's absorbed the lessons

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Speaker 2: of his idols to an artist of mature genius content

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Speaker 2: to use his outsized talents to more enigmatic and subtle ends.

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Speaker 2: End quote. He then confesses I was guilty of this

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Speaker 2: kind of thinking myself before revisiting Magnolia. It definitely struck

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Speaker 2: me as the work of a younger artist, but in

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Speaker 2: the same way that Sergeant Pepper's is the work of

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Speaker 2: young artists. Both or Try Anything, Slash Everything works of

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Speaker 2: boundless artistic imagination and formal mastery. But there are also

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Speaker 2: works of great beauty, empathy, and understanding, you know, masterpieces.

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Speaker 2: So a little bit of that classic Sam van Holgren

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Speaker 2: van Purbley in there for you. I'm going to propose

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Speaker 2: that you, too, Josh, were guilty of such thinking coming

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Speaker 2: into this revisit. The receipts include your three out of

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Speaker 2: four star blurb, presumably written back in ninety nine.

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Speaker 3: Is that right?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? I think it's pulled from that.

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Speaker 2: Okay, in which you call mag another great imitation of

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Speaker 2: a great movie from writer director Paul Thomas Anderson, and

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Speaker 2: you cite Altman's Nashville and Shortcuts as Magnolia's prime influences.

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Speaker 2: You're complimentary, to be sure, but the imitation implication suggests

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Speaker 2: a still relatively unformed artist, a position supported by your

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Speaker 2: letterboxed ranking of PTA's films. I want to state clearly that,

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Speaker 2: at least according to my research, you have not actually

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Speaker 2: given a negative review to any Paul Thomas Anderson movie, but.

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Speaker 1: That would be correct.

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Speaker 2: You do have in last place his debut Hard eight

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Speaker 2: or Sidney, third from the bottom, his second and breakout

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Speaker 2: feature Boogie Knights, and in between those two is the

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Speaker 2: film we're discussing, Magnolia. His three earliest works are the

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Speaker 2: ones you fancy the least. So are you sticking to

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Speaker 2: this narrative or are you ready to revise the list?

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Speaker 2: Is PTA's Tale of Wounded Children, despicable patriarchs and they're

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Speaker 2: collaterally damaged caretakers, more profound develop piece of art than

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Speaker 2: you initially gave it credit for, and did any of

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Speaker 2: the performances surprise you? On this rewatch? In your blurb,

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Speaker 2: you rightfully praise John c Riley's do gooder policeman Jim Kurring,

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Speaker 2: Philip Seymour Hoffman's emotional hospice attendant Phil Parma, and Tom

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Speaker 2: Cruise's malevolently charismatic seduce and destroy instructor Frank TJ. Mackie,

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Speaker 2: a role that earned him a Best Supporting Oscar nomination.

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Speaker 2: But you were not a fan of Julianne Moore's manic

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Speaker 2: adulterous wife Linda, or William H. Macy as whiz kid

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Speaker 2: Donnie Smith, who has so much love to give? Won't

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Speaker 2: you give some of your love to Macy and to

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Speaker 2: the artistry of PTA, artistry that extends beyond breva steady

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Speaker 2: cam shots to non diegetic ensemble singalongs, and of course

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Speaker 2: Frog's falling from the sky. Or will you always think

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Speaker 2: of Magnolia most fondly as the stepping stone to PTA's

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Speaker 2: true masterpiece, his next film, Punch Shrunk Love.

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Speaker 5: Hm.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Punchdrunk Love is just so wonderful. That's a whole

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Speaker 1: other conversation. Can't wait till we do that Sacred cow

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Speaker 1: review of that one. But I think this is going

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Speaker 1: to be I don't know that we've had a full

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Speaker 1: on Maya Colpa in the nine from ninety nine series,

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Speaker 1: yet I know positions have shifted a little bit later

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Speaker 1: and there. But who was this stingy bastard in nine?

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Speaker 2: Yes?

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Speaker 3: Who?

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Speaker 1: Now? Mind you? What I was hoping because you've stated

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Speaker 1: so badly three out of four stars, you know, positive review?

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Speaker 1: But why why did I get so focused on the

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Speaker 1: things that held me back from it?

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Speaker 2: Just wrote it off as an ultimental talk.

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Speaker 1: About no no, Now, don't rephrase what you've already read.

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Speaker 1: That's not exactly how I couched it. Noticed the word

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Speaker 1: great there when I noticed it when I wrote a

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Speaker 1: great imitation. So we're going to get to, you know,

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Speaker 1: how I feel about some of those things I pointed

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Speaker 1: out before. But what was with me that that's where

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Speaker 1: I decided to go first? Yes, this thing has so

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Speaker 1: wonders to it. The reservations I have pale in comparison

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Speaker 1: to what this movie does well, And I would say

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Speaker 1: of the performances. We'll circle back to that. But my

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Speaker 1: biggest sin was probably in a longer print review that

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Speaker 1: I wrote that I dragged out of some boxes. I

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Speaker 1: didn't care for Malaura Walters and this watch she just

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Speaker 1: stunned me. Now, maybe those three characters have something in

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Speaker 1: common we can get to. Maybe it's just a matter

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Speaker 1: that I had not yet learned to appreciate melodrama. I

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Speaker 1: described this as we led into this review as a melodrama,

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Speaker 1: and I don't think that was a genre that I

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Speaker 1: quite understood twenty years ago as well or appreciate it

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Speaker 1: as well as I do now. Maybe that had something

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Speaker 1: to do with it, But yeah, I way underrated this,

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Speaker 1: even if I think it's still it's more of a

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Speaker 1: master work in progress. I'll stand by that. But I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to be as harsh as it sounds like

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Speaker 1: that AV Club reappraisal was. It's still something absolutely wonderful

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Speaker 1: as is, and I'm looking forward to spending some time

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Speaker 1: on those positives.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, me as well. I'd love to hear more because

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Speaker 2: I'm also a big fan of this film, and I'm

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Speaker 2: a big fan of all of Paul Thomas Anderson's films.

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Speaker 2: Our rankings are very different, though ultimately the same, because

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Speaker 2: we're positive on all of them, and I think watching

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Speaker 2: Magnolia again, I did realize that it would be very

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Speaker 2: easy to be completely overwhelmed by it or exhilarated by

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Speaker 2: the sheer audacity and the speed of it. It's three

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Speaker 2: hours and eight minutes long. I'd forgotten, honestly that it

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Speaker 2: was that long yea too, and didn't quite believe the

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Speaker 2: timer on the TV when it said it was that long,

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Speaker 2: But especially that first ninety minutes before PTA deliberately slows

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Speaker 2: the movie down. And I think there is a point

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Speaker 2: where he deliberately slows it down. It's during Stanley's decision,

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Speaker 2: the kid on TV who has told the world that

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Speaker 2: he's not going to answer that question. He's standing his ground.

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Speaker 2: He's not going to be forced into this position anymore.

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Speaker 2: And similarly, all of the other characters at that moment

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Speaker 2: are having kind of breakthrough personal moments, and that's where

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Speaker 2: he really does. PTA, for better or worse, elongate that

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Speaker 2: that entire section, I think. But up until that, with

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Speaker 2: the me music and the quick cuts that do connect

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Speaker 2: all these storylines and characters, it just propels forward. And

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Speaker 2: as we talk about the artistry of it and how

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Speaker 2: bold it is and whether or not it reflects an

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Speaker 2: immature artist at this point, I mean, I did listen

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Speaker 2: to the interview PTA gave to Mark Maron on WTF

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Speaker 2: a few years back where he basically says in that interview, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it probably should have had twenty minutes cut from it.

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Speaker 2: I was a little bit out of control. I was

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Speaker 2: overly eager, and I wasn't going to be stopped. I

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Speaker 2: was going to have my way on that movie. Who

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Speaker 2: am I to argue with pta, but that boldness going

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Speaker 2: for a moment like we get with the frogs at

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Speaker 2: the end, like the amy Man song wise Up that

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Speaker 2: we've referenced a few times, even the moment like the

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Speaker 2: one with Jim and Claudia. So this is John c

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Speaker 2: Riley and Malaura Walters who have met when he has

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Speaker 2: been called to her house by neighbors who are complaining

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Speaker 2: about the noise. So there's some disturbance there and they

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Speaker 2: do end up making a connection and going out that evening,

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Speaker 2: and they're two very broken people we see in that moment.

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Speaker 2: But she has a line at one point where she says,

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Speaker 2: now that I've met you, would you object to never

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Speaker 2: seeing me again? That does feel a little bit forced,

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Speaker 2: And now in retrospect, I know that that is a

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Speaker 2: line from an amy Man song, and her songs are

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Speaker 2: really the foundation of this entire soundtrack. But it was

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Speaker 2: a line he fell in love with, and he said,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to find a reason to get this into

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Speaker 2: the movie. I'm going to go ahead and force it

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Speaker 2: into the film, And you know what, I'm on board

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Speaker 2: with all of that, But it is the intimate moments

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Speaker 2: that make the film so much more for me than

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Speaker 2: those pyrotechnics. And I will go back to that same

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Speaker 2: scene with Jim and Claudia where it's pretty early in

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Speaker 2: the conversation and she's saying to him, you're so good,

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Speaker 2: you're so put together, you're a police officer, and pta

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Speaker 2: doesn't linger on John c Riley's face, but he does

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Speaker 2: keep the camera on him just long enough to see

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Speaker 2: that flicker in his eyes where Riley is processing Jim,

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Speaker 2: the character he's playing, is processing so much. In that flicker,

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Speaker 2: he's recognizing that they're exactly the same, that they are broken,

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Speaker 2: that in addition to that, he's somehow fooled her, and

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Speaker 2: that he's going to have to be completely honest with her,

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Speaker 2: like he isn't really with anybody else, and it's gonna

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Speaker 2: be uncomfortable, and he's gonna reveal just how truly pathetic

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Speaker 2: he is to her. And that kind of I guess

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Speaker 2: nakedness of it, of that emotion, of that vulnerability, is

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Speaker 2: really what I think makes Magnolien special.

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Speaker 7: Can I tell you something? Yeah, of course, I'm really

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Speaker 7: nervous that you're gonna hate me soon. You're gonna find

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Speaker 7: stuff out about me, and.

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Speaker 8: You're gonna hate me, no, Like, what what do you mean?

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Speaker 7: You have so much, so many good things, and you

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Speaker 7: seem so together. You're a police officer, and you seem

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Speaker 7: so straight and put together without any problems.

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Speaker 8: I lost my gun today? What I lost my gun today?

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Speaker 8: When I left you? And I'm the laughing stock of

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Speaker 8: a lot of people. I wanted to tell you. I

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Speaker 8: wanted you to know.

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Speaker 3: And it's on my.

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Speaker 8: Mind and it makes me look like a fool. I

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Speaker 8: feel like a fool.

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Speaker 1: That might be my favorite scene. Really love the film

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Speaker 1: on this rewatch, and you're right, it's relatively unshowy in

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Speaker 1: terms of the camera work compared to a lot of

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Speaker 1: what we get here. But the timing of Riley's response

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Speaker 1: when Officer Jim jumps in as she's talking about how

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Speaker 1: she's messed up and he's so good and I lost

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Speaker 1: my gun today, and it's like he just he blurts

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Speaker 1: it out, because you're right, he's trying to keep up

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Speaker 1: with her with what she's throwing at him. And then

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Speaker 1: what he follows that up with, I'm looked down on

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Speaker 1: and I know that, and he's he's it's it's as

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Speaker 1: if he may have always known that, but he's maybe

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Speaker 1: never admitted it to himself until this moment, right, and

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Speaker 1: her presence and her vulnerability is allowing him to do that.

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Speaker 1: And then there is a bit of technical virtuosity when

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Speaker 1: they kiss and we get the camera push in on right.

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Speaker 1: I will have other things to say about other us

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Speaker 1: of camera pushes, the maybe four hundred and eighty three

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Speaker 1: we get in the first twenty minutes, but this camera

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Speaker 1: push is absolutely perfect. I also like about Officer Jim

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Speaker 1: and Riley's performance out He's always talking and the choice

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Speaker 1: Anderson makes. There are a couple times in the movie

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Speaker 1: where he's still talking and we see that but we

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Speaker 1: can't hear him.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 1: One is when he's escorting Donnie back into the store

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Speaker 1: to put back the money's from that he's rout from

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Speaker 1: the and.

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Speaker 2: The sail actually in a more dramatic way.

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Speaker 1: That's what I was gonna say. With Donnie, we see

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Speaker 1: his mouth moving, we see Officer Jim's mouth moving, and

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Speaker 1: we just don't hear him. But then you're right, the

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Speaker 1: final scene we do kind of hear him, and if

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Speaker 1: you listen in over the Amy Man song, you can

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Speaker 1: make out what he's saying, but it's not what the

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Speaker 1: soundtrack prioritizes no, So it's just a good way of

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Speaker 1: keeping that reaction yes and keeping that character consistent. This

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Speaker 1: is a guy who's just always talking, trying to say

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Speaker 1: the right thing, being helpful more often than not, I think.

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Speaker 2: But certainly trying.

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Speaker 1: I do love that quality about him. So the overarching

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Speaker 1: thing that I enjoyed about this movie seen in a

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Speaker 1: second time, and it sounds ridiculous not to have watched

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Speaker 1: this movie a second time because it is so overwhelming.

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Speaker 1: How could I not have wanted to go back to

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Speaker 1: it and try to figure out more and just pe

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Speaker 1: smart again.

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Speaker 2: More than any other film. And I'll just say real quick,

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Speaker 2: we've watched some mind benders in this nine series for sure,

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Speaker 2: looking back on The Matrix and The Sixth Sense and

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Speaker 2: other films and John Welco to make sense, and this

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Speaker 2: is the only one where I really feel like I

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Speaker 2: needed to watch it a second time before discussing it

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Speaker 2: or what would ultimately be a third time.

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Speaker 1: For sure, And as wild as it all is, it

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Speaker 1: all comes together in at least one way. I'm not

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Speaker 1: saying there's an answer or a clue, but it is

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Speaker 1: considering this essential question, it seems to me basically, do

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Speaker 1: things happen for a reason? Is everything the phrase that's

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Speaker 1: repeated often a matter of chance? Or are things crucially connected?

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Speaker 1: And I think from the structure of this film, to

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Speaker 1: the emotional beats that it hits, to the throw the

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Speaker 1: frogs in here too, Magnolia argues that, yes, we are connected.

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Speaker 1: It may not be entirely sure how we're connected or

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Speaker 1: why we're connected, but undoubtedly this is a movie that's

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Speaker 1: pro connection, it's anti chaos, and I think this is

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Speaker 1: why for all of its tragedy, and you know, there

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Speaker 1: are some really awful things we learn that these some

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Speaker 1: of these characters have suffered. Yes, I do find it

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Speaker 1: strangely comforting, and I think this is maybe where the

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Speaker 1: regret theme is important. And regret is also something that's

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Speaker 1: mentioned a number of times by multiple characters when we

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Speaker 1: learn about the awful things they've done that they should

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Speaker 1: be regretful about. But if regret, basically, if everything is

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Speaker 1: just a coincidence, then what's the point of regret?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 1: Why bother with regret if there's no sense of control

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Speaker 1: here at all? And I think it's because the movie

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Speaker 1: shows us that there is regret, because we are connected

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Speaker 1: by the things that are beyond our control, yes, by

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Speaker 1: things that are greater than us, yes, but also by

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Speaker 1: our voices, especially those choices in our relationships. So again

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Speaker 1: back to Officer Jim near the end, when he says,

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Speaker 1: can we forgive? That's the part that's the tough part

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Speaker 1: of the job. That's a tough part of walking down

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Speaker 1: the street.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 1: That's one way to corral the chaos of the universe,

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Speaker 1: to forgive. And that's a through line that was just

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Speaker 1: so consistent for me in watching this movie. That is

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Speaker 1: probably one of the things I should have focused on

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Speaker 1: and been less worried about whatever trick Anderson was pulling

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Speaker 1: out of his bag to get there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, there's certainly a lot of Catharsis here, and

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Speaker 2: there are undoubtedly connections not just being made with the camera.

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Speaker 2: But if you really break it down all nine or

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Speaker 2: ten or however many characters there are in this film,

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Speaker 2: we see that there is something that is linking them

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Speaker 2: beyond just the thematics, but there's that thematic element as well,

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Speaker 2: And in every sort of subplot there is an element

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Speaker 2: of a patriarch, as I mentioned, who has done terrible

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Speaker 2: damage to a child, and I think one of the

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Speaker 2: things that's kind of comforting about the ending of the

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Speaker 2: film though, or a moment near the end of the film,

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Speaker 2: even though it's not necessarily the moment of emotional breakthrough

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Speaker 2: we would want on the part of the father, But

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Speaker 2: when Stanley is able to go into his father and

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Speaker 2: confront him with his father's mistreatment of his abuse, maybe

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Speaker 2: not on the scale of Malaura Walter's character or of

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Speaker 2: Frank tom Cruise's character at the hands of Jason Robard's

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Speaker 2: but the fact that he's able to go in you

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Speaker 2: talk about that connection. It's as if, even though he

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Speaker 2: doesn't know those other people in this story that we're watching,

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Speaker 2: we know the other people and we know what they've

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Speaker 2: lived through, and we know what they regret and feel

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Speaker 2: at this point in their lives, and somehow he has

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Speaker 2: absorbed that and now he's able to go into his

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Speaker 2: father and say things need to be different, and there's hope.

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Speaker 2: There's hope in Stanley that somehow does I think, make

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Speaker 2: you feel better about everything at the end of this film.

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Speaker 1: I like how that scene is played too, though, where

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Speaker 1: his father doesn't he kind of ignores him and tells

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Speaker 1: him to go to bed. You go back to bed twice,

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Speaker 1: so it doesn't play it for this easy, now cathartic moment,

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Speaker 1: but you're right, you do get the sense that a

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Speaker 1: choice has been made. That's Stanley.

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Speaker 2: I think it's just in the act of confronting it.

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Speaker 2: And I'm going to talk about that a little bit

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Speaker 2: more because when you talk about John c Riley's character

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Speaker 2: and him telling us in that kind of voiceover about

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Speaker 2: how hard it is just dealing with forgiveness and getting

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Speaker 2: through the day, that's a meta element in a film

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Speaker 2: that has a lot of them. The fact that we

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Speaker 2: hear him sometimes talking to us where it's almost as

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Speaker 2: if there's a documentary crew in the car with him,

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Speaker 2: but not really, but he's clearly just talking to himself.

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Speaker 2: To himself.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's how I understand it, but it very.

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Speaker 2: Much feels like he's talking to us the audience. And

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Speaker 2: there is that moment where Phil Parma, the Philip Seymour

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Speaker 2: Hoffman character and Wow, talk about an amazing performance, not

400
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Speaker 2: a surprise and believe somehow a surprise. It's just how

401
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Speaker 2: good it was. When he's talking on the phone and

402
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Speaker 2: he's saying, this is that scene in the movie. Things

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Speaker 2: happen in the movie sometimes like this and I need

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Speaker 2: you to now do it. I like that because it

405
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Speaker 2: fits in with I think everything else is going on

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Speaker 2: in the film. The moment when we are exiting Malaura

407
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Speaker 2: Walter's apartment and the camera quickly shows us the painting

408
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Speaker 2: on the wall and the part that says, but it

409
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Speaker 2: did happen that's written on the painting, a note just

410
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Speaker 2: for us the viewer. The fact that most of the

411
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Speaker 2: drama and suspense is built around a TV show, right,

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Speaker 2: characters watching it at different points. It's the game show,

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Speaker 2: and how that plays out the fact that Earl Partridge,

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Speaker 2: the Jason Robard's character, is a TV producer who is

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Speaker 2: the producer of that game show. And it makes you

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Speaker 2: think of the Partridge Family. Of course, this is the

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Speaker 2: dysfunctional version of the Partridge family, and all these characters

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Speaker 2: tie back to him. And did you catch in the

419
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Speaker 2: credits to the Henry Gibson character, the kind of character

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Speaker 2: who's in the bar putting on the airs of being

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Speaker 2: this rich man of class who's talking to and kind

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Speaker 2: of harassing Donnie. The William H. Macy character. His name

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Speaker 2: is Thurston Howell, which is the millionaire character from Gilligan's island,

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Speaker 2: so Pta is playing with all of this stuff, including

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Speaker 2: all of the different references to Exodus eight two and

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Speaker 2: the different uses of the numbers eight and two that

427
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Speaker 2: are in the film. The movie just dares you to

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Speaker 2: repeatedly watch it, as we noted for these connections. But

429
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Speaker 2: a couple more, Cruz unravels in front of a camera.

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Speaker 2: His entire facade breaks down when he's questioned for a

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Speaker 2: TV news profile of some kind. And isn't the whole

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Speaker 2: film in a way just a bye? How obviously cinematic

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Speaker 2: it is. Isn't it all kind of like a TV

434
00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:34,440
Speaker 2: drama with all these different characters that you meet, whether

435
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:37,160
Speaker 2: it's a sitcom or whatever, or a melodrama, all these

436
00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:39,600
Speaker 2: different storylines. Think it's just kind of checking in on.

437
00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:42,240
Speaker 1: I compared it, and not derisively, to a soap opera

438
00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:43,280
Speaker 1: in my original partner.

439
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:46,240
Speaker 2: There is the element to it, but that all from

440
00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:48,639
Speaker 2: me is building to a great moment in this idea

441
00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:51,480
Speaker 2: of confrontation. And I want to talk about some of

442
00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:54,040
Speaker 2: the surprises in the movie for you. If there were,

443
00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:56,880
Speaker 2: as there have been throughout this series, certain moments where

444
00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:59,680
Speaker 2: you just completely had forgotten about them in the twenty

445
00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:02,080
Speaker 2: years that have passed. I kind of forgot about the

446
00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:06,520
Speaker 2: Melinda Dylan character who plays Philip Baker Hall Jimmy Gator,

447
00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:09,359
Speaker 2: the TV host wife, and I forgot about that scene

448
00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:12,879
Speaker 2: completely that they have where he's come home from the

449
00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:16,760
Speaker 2: taping he has had some kind of attack, he's dying,

450
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:18,480
Speaker 2: and we've seen her up to this point be the

451
00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:21,280
Speaker 2: doting wife. She has always been caring for him and

452
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:24,920
Speaker 2: worried about him, and you feel like she has possibly

453
00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:28,600
Speaker 2: become content to accept a certain version of her life.

454
00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:32,440
Speaker 2: She is married to this guy who's successful, She's had

455
00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:35,400
Speaker 2: a good life, and she loves this man, but she's

456
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,840
Speaker 2: been in denial about his past indiscretions, which he confesses

457
00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:42,280
Speaker 2: to cheating on her multiple times, and she's probably been

458
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:46,080
Speaker 2: in denial about the sexual abuse of their daughter. And

459
00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:50,120
Speaker 2: it's only when he unburdens himself of one of those

460
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:53,119
Speaker 2: anchors that's around his neck as he's dying, but not

461
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:57,240
Speaker 2: the other, that she forces him to really confront it.

462
00:22:57,240 --> 00:22:58,880
Speaker 2: It's as if she's saying, if you're going to try

463
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:01,880
Speaker 2: to make yourself feel better as you die by telling

464
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:05,080
Speaker 2: the truth and making me deal with this now, well

465
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 2: then you're gonna have to actually be totally honest with

466
00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:10,800
Speaker 2: yourself and with me, and I'm gonna have to hear

467
00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:12,680
Speaker 2: all of it. And her line when she turns to

468
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:16,480
Speaker 2: him and says, I'm not through asking my questions. Yeah,

469
00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:18,960
Speaker 2: that's one of the great lines and great line deliveries

470
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:21,600
Speaker 2: in the entire movie. I think. I think it speaks

471
00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:25,240
Speaker 2: to the inquisitive nature of this movie and that idea

472
00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:29,560
Speaker 2: of confronting truth, confronting the reality within the randomness, and

473
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:34,080
Speaker 2: accepting certain narratives or abandoning certain accepted narratives. We see

474
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,960
Speaker 2: all these characters trying to carve out these new paths

475
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:39,760
Speaker 2: that seem to have been decided for them, So all

476
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,720
Speaker 2: those meta elements actually kind of swirl together, I think

477
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:44,120
Speaker 2: in a really neat way.

478
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:46,439
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you brought up Melinda Dylan because I

479
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:50,000
Speaker 1: did remember that scene. I actually did not remember. I mean,

480
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 1: it's really kind of the most horrible secret of the film,

481
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:55,639
Speaker 1: So it did stick with me, but I did not

482
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:58,520
Speaker 1: remember who played the wife, and I do not remember

483
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:01,200
Speaker 1: how good she was in that scene. Because the element,

484
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 1: you're right how you describe it, But it also is

485
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:06,679
Speaker 1: not like a got you like a courtroom sort of

486
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 1: you're on the stand now you realize in her performance,

487
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 1: the little hesitation she has, she could make that choice

488
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:15,840
Speaker 1: to still deny it tell what you're talking about. But

489
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 1: the courage it took for her to say he may

490
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,440
Speaker 1: die tonight, but I am going to follow this through

491
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,600
Speaker 1: no matter how painful this is going to get, and

492
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:28,439
Speaker 1: the courage that she brings to that. I think she

493
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 1: probably has maybe three scenes in the film or four,

494
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:34,920
Speaker 1: but that scene between them is just so absolutely wrenching,

495
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:36,159
Speaker 1: and she's fantastic in it.

496
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:38,640
Speaker 4: Do you feel better now that you've said this?

497
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:41,719
Speaker 5: I don't know.

498
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 3: Well, I'm not.

499
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 1: Mad, Oh I am, but I'm not.

500
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,520
Speaker 3: You know, I love you so much, Ruse.

501
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,199
Speaker 4: I'm not through asking my questions.

502
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 1: The other performances that I did want to talk about,

503
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 1: you've touched on a lot of them. I think we

504
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,359
Speaker 1: covered what's so great about Riley Philip Seymour Hoffman. You

505
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:12,520
Speaker 1: absolutely see why Paul Thomas Anderson was like, I'm eventually

506
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 1: giving this guy his own movie or as close as

507
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 1: you could. Yeah, with the Master from what he does here,

508
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 1: I feel like that line, this is that scene.

509
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:24,920
Speaker 6: I know this sounds silly, and I know that I

510
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 6: might sound ridiculous like this is the scene of the

511
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:29,200
Speaker 6: movie where the guy's trying to get a hold of

512
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 6: the long Lost Sun, you know, but this is that scene.

513
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 3: This is that scene.

514
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 6: And I think they have those scenes in movies because

515
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 6: they're true, you know, because they really happen, and you

516
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 6: gotta believe me, this is really happening.

517
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 1: It's again, it's it's pta like dancing, like just like

518
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:53,119
Speaker 1: it's a little too little, too much. But if anybody,

519
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 1: if you tell it Philip Seymour Hoffman to say it, Okay,

520
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 1: it's gonna work, and he pulls it off for sure.

521
00:25:58,600 --> 00:25:59,919
Speaker 2: I just want to say he makes it something to

522
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 2: human would say, yeah, he does, while also being idiosyncratic

523
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:07,920
Speaker 2: with every moment, but not distractingly. So anything that he says,

524
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 2: it's supposed to be remotely comic, is a little funnier

525
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 2: than that moment probably should be or could have been

526
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 2: with another actor. And you talk about wrenching every emotional

527
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:19,160
Speaker 2: beat is a little more heartbreaking than that moment could

528
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 2: otherwise be. I think, because really the secret of it,

529
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:25,359
Speaker 2: I think to the acting with Hoffmann is that he's

530
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,399
Speaker 2: always serving the other character in the scene, whether it's Cruise,

531
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 2: whether it's Robarts, whether it's Julian Moore and her history.

532
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 2: Really see it right, He's just a character and an

533
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 2: actor ultimately who's bursting with empathy and as I said,

534
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 2: not a surprise because we all know he's one of

535
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 2: the best actors ever, and yet moment to moment he

536
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 2: constantly surprised me.

537
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 1: You know what's interesting about him in the film is

538
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 1: that a lot of these are uncomfortable characters, and even

539
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,239
Speaker 1: if you're interested in their stories and where they're going

540
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 1: to go, when we return to them, you're a little

541
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 1: bit on edge. Whenever it comes back to Phil, you

542
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,440
Speaker 1: feel like you're in good hands. This is a good

543
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,119
Speaker 1: place to be. Part of that is the occupation this nurse,

544
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 1: but it's also the empathy that you talked about. So Cruz,

545
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:09,919
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, not surprising that it was probably

546
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 1: the stand up performance for me the first time I

547
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 1: saw it. Watching it again, I like to think, and

548
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 1: having seen twenty years of time Cruise performances since then,

549
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,160
Speaker 1: I like to think that on set, the early version

550
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:22,440
Speaker 1: of Frank Mackie we get is that Cruz does like

551
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 1: a less misogynistic version of that for himself to get

552
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:28,199
Speaker 1: himself pumped up for every scene. He does. It's just

553
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 1: fantastic how he gets himself ramped up and he's giving

554
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,880
Speaker 1: two performances here. Right, there's that creening first half where

555
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,400
Speaker 1: we see him and then also the bravado breaking down

556
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:42,879
Speaker 1: during the interview that he mentioned. But really the breakdown comes.

557
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,640
Speaker 1: He doesn't break down there, He kind of like shuts

558
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 1: down there, right, that's stare and he just says, I'm

559
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 1: silently judging you.

560
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 2: Yes, wow, yeah.

561
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:54,919
Speaker 1: But the real breakdown comes when he does, of course

562
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 1: finally meet his father who's on his deathbed, and again

563
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 1: Cruse using his Cruise powers not to cry, right and

564
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 1: saying that right, I'm not gonna let you make me cry,

565
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:10,400
Speaker 1: even though as an actor that's what the character requires.

566
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:13,199
Speaker 1: But you just knowing what sort of a performer Cruise is,

567
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:15,400
Speaker 1: how he's one hundred and ten percent all the time. Yes,

568
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 1: you can see when he's gripping his hand and trying

569
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:18,919
Speaker 1: to prevent that.

570
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, how much he's giving that, I think not a surprise.

571
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 2: You're right, And yet I did feel like he was

572
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 2: even better than I remembered it. And I think it's

573
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,960
Speaker 2: because in ninety nine there was that element of oh,

574
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 2: we're watching Tom Cruise do something he's never done before.

575
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 2: We're watching Tom Cruise play a vile character, and there

576
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 2: was a performative aspect to it. As you said, there

577
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 2: is certainly a performative aspect to the character he's playing.

578
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 2: He is playing a role absolutely as Frank TJ. Mackie,

579
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 2: and he is a performer on stage for his sort

580
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 2: of sycophantic fans who are buying his product. But it

581
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 2: is a very textured performance and it's a very powerful performance.

582
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 2: And you touched on those silent moments. It isn't just

583
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 2: the Blake moments of misogyny and some of the exercises

584
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 2: he does and is underwear that all of that that

585
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 2: came back right, It really is again it speaks to

586
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:12,479
Speaker 2: the whole film. It's those quieter moments. And I do

587
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 2: think that breakdown with Robards and you nailed it. That

588
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 2: demand of himself to not cry, but his body taking

589
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 2: over in those moments and kind of almost forcing it

590
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 2: out of him is really strong.

591
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 5: I'm not gonna cry. I'm not gonna cry for you,

592
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 5: you sucker. I know you could hear me. I hate

593
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 5: your guts. You can just dye you. And I hope

594
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 5: it hurts. I hope it.

595
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 2: Hurts now I'll throw at you. As I mentioned from

596
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 2: your ninety nine take, not a fan of William H.

597
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 2: Macy and Julianne Moore. I do think that Donnie's storyline

598
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 2: overall is the weakest link in the film. I do

599
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:09,960
Speaker 2: feel like those bar scenes. Anytime we go back to

600
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 2: that bar, I felt as if I was ready. I

601
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:15,400
Speaker 2: was ready to go, sooner than Paul Thomas Anderson was

602
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 2: ready to go, ready to get back to some other characters.

603
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 2: Felt like it maybe meandered a little bit and definitely

604
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 2: had some redundancy in terms of him articulating his pain

605
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 2: and his loneliness. That isn't to say though I don't

606
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 2: think William H. Macy's really good in the film. I

607
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 2: think it's exactly the type of performance we've seen from

608
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 2: William H. Macy in a lot of great films.

609
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say, you know, I excited those two performances,

610
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 1: but I think it was more to suggest that the

611
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 1: material was not serving them as well as it served

612
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 1: the other characters. I do agree, and maybe for me

613
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 1: partly it's also the obviously it's a film of coincidences,

614
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 1: but having two quiz kids, a grown quiz kid and

615
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 1: the Young quiz Kid was almost, you know, like too

616
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 1: much of a doubling down on that sort of theme.

617
00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 1: And the one thing watching again that I did notice

618
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 1: about both More and William H. Macy scenes and Laura

619
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:05,800
Speaker 1: Walter scenes has a bit of this, but as I said,

620
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:10,400
Speaker 1: I think she navigates them a little bit better. There's

621
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 1: a lot of shouting back and forth with other people,

622
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 1: whether it's the multiple lawyers that Julianne Moore's character goes

623
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 1: to me or Donnie with his bosses. It speaks also

624
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 1: to this element of this was a movie that you

625
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 1: get the sense, and it sounds like he said he

626
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 1: wasn't going to cut a second out of and those

627
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 1: maybe have been the places, those heightened emotion shouting matches

628
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 1: that those two characters get engaged in became a little

629
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 1: bit redundant for me. Yeah, you know, I would not

630
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 1: go so far to say is they are bad performances.

631
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 1: I don't think the material is up to the level

632
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 1: there in those scenes that it is elsewhere.

633
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 2: Well, I'll admit I'm not sure ultimately where I fall

634
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 2: on Julianne Moore watching this film, and I would have

635
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 2: said coming into it, oh, of course, I mean I

636
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 2: think she was nominated for an Oscar as well, along

637
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 2: with Cruz, and she clearly has a great body of

638
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 2: work behind her. I've enjoyed a lot of her performances,

639
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 2: but there is a theatricality that goes beyond just a

640
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 2: bigness and goes beyond just the yelling. There is something

641
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 2: very pronounced and very forced about her performance that I

642
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:13,440
Speaker 2: don't feel in any other performance in the film. And

643
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 2: you could point to the fact that she's a character

644
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 2: who is becoming progressively unhinged and is also fueled by drugs.

645
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 2: I think that's very clear. So the performance being a

646
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 2: little bit scattered makes sense. And yet, like I said,

647
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 2: it did overall stand out for me as one, I

648
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 2: was never quite on the same plane with her when

649
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 2: she was on screen. I mentioned surprises in terms of

650
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 2: things you just didn't remember at all about the film.

651
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 2: Did you have anything that stood out to you a

652
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 2: certain scene or an idea that wasn't something you recalled

653
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 2: from your previous feeling?

654
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 1: Well, do you want to talk about the frogs? I mean,

655
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,400
Speaker 1: we can't. That's the biggest surprise in the film. Obviously

656
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 1: I knew it was coming, but just you know, I

657
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:55,800
Speaker 1: also had ahead of me, and are the frogs going

658
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 1: to make any sense this time or any more sense?

659
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 1: And obviously, as you suggested, they are foreshadowed. We see

660
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 1: that Exodus eight two, you know about the plague of

661
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:07,240
Speaker 1: the frogs in Egypt. We see a sign that just

662
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 1: says Exodus eight to an audience member holding at the

663
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 1: game show, and someone comes and takes it away. It's

664
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 1: also I think foreshadowed in the Boys rap to Officer

665
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 1: Jim on the street. I think the final line there

666
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 1: is when the sunshine don't work, the good Lord bring

667
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 1: the rain in, which could obviously suggest the storm we see.

668
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 1: But also maybe there are the storm of frogs.

669
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 2: There are chapter breaks too, essentially which remember that are

670
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 2: all weather report. It suggests maybe not that frogs are

671
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 2: going to fall from the sky, but the weather is

672
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 2: getting worse. Yes, And whether the movie's preoccupied with it, and.

673
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 1: Whether something still No matter whatever technological developments have come about, we.

674
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 2: Cannot control write it can't control.

675
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,720
Speaker 1: It's the ultimate chaos. So I do think with the frogs,

676
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 1: it's telling that the first person to experience it is Jim,

677
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 1: because he's maybe the only one in the film who

678
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 1: who seems to believe in a providential God. Some of

679
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 1: those moments where he's talking to him are actually one

680
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 1: or two are actually prayers.

681
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 2: Yep.

682
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:07,000
Speaker 1: So he seems to have this sense behind him here. Yeah, yeah, kindly, well,

683
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 1: he seems to have a sense that there. He believes

684
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:12,800
Speaker 1: there's someone guiding events right, putting things in his path,

685
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:16,759
Speaker 1: giving him then the choice of what to do with

686
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:20,839
Speaker 1: what he comes across. So something more than just coincidence. Yeah,

687
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:21,799
Speaker 1: and I always.

688
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 2: Think God too to help him find his gun.

689
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly, that's another one of the prayers. Also, it's

690
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:30,239
Speaker 1: interesting that the frogs precipitate Earl's death. That's that's kind

691
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,799
Speaker 1: of what they lead up to. We've been anticipating it

692
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 1: the whole film really, but this is when it arrives,

693
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:39,839
Speaker 1: and death another maybe can be seen definitive act of God.

694
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 1: So I think the bottom line is, you know, for me,

695
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:46,319
Speaker 1: the frogs are they're sort of like man's songs that

696
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:48,839
Speaker 1: are sprinkled throughout. It's just another way to connect these

697
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 1: characters in an exact moment with a singular experience and

698
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 1: absolutely singular experience.

699
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:58,840
Speaker 2: And a singular, unexplainable experience which the whole movie is

700
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 2: predicated on those types of experiences and this idea that

701
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 2: something unbelievable, something miraculous can happen. And not only can

702
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 2: it happen, it does happen. It happens to people every day.

703
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 2: And I think one of the reasons I was so

704
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 2: set up for it, beyond the fact that I knew

705
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:19,400
Speaker 2: it was coming, is the prologue, which was my big surprise.

706
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:21,280
Speaker 2: I had completely.

707
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 1: Forgotten me too, Yeah, had completely.

708
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 2: Forgotten about that opening sequence in the narration by Ricky Jay,

709
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 2: who does appear in the film as kind of the

710
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:32,720
Speaker 2: executive producer or one of the producers of the game show,

711
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 2: and it absolutely sets the table for everything that unfolds.

712
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 2: It says, what you're about to watch defies rationality. It

713
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:43,880
Speaker 2: defies reason, but sometimes so does life. So buckle up.

714
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:46,279
Speaker 2: And so when you get frogs falling from the sky

715
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 2: at the end of the movie, it's almost like we

716
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:49,840
Speaker 2: knew it was going to happen.

717
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:52,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's fair. But here we're getting to

718
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 1: some of my critiques that I am going to say

719
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:56,359
Speaker 1: still stand, and it has to do with maybe the

720
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,920
Speaker 1: first twenty minutes of this film. Sam, I believe you

721
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 1: the phrase formal mastery and describing his revisit, and I

722
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:06,440
Speaker 1: just don't think I think there are moments of that,

723
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:08,840
Speaker 1: but I don't think it's consistent throughout the film, and

724
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 1: I don't think it has that formal mastery in these

725
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 1: first twenty minutes. I admire it's brio and maybe in

726
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:18,399
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety nine like that's I just never recovered from

727
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 1: this sort of onslaught we get at the beginning.

728
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 2: Like it could be overwhelming.

729
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 1: Yes, I can meet us, That's how I would describe

730
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 1: the experience. First, we do get the narrated prologue that

731
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 1: you're talking about, so it whips us through these historical

732
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 1: incidents of coincidence. The first one shot like a silent movie,

733
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,400
Speaker 1: right with the spect ratio, black and white everything, and

734
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 1: it's about a man being murdered in the neighborhood of

735
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:42,759
Speaker 1: Greenberry Hill by three men named Greenberry, Hill and Hill.

736
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 1: Then we move to this story of a woman who

737
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:48,320
Speaker 1: fires a gun at her husband, only to miss shoot

738
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 1: her son, who had just jumped to his death from

739
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:52,440
Speaker 1: the roof of their building that was passing by there

740
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 1: and had loaded the gun. Yes, okay, so this is

741
00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 1: like coming that fast and furious past I forgot Pat

742
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:03,840
Speaker 1: Naswa too. Yeah, the scuba dive scuba I official surprise,

743
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:07,120
Speaker 1: totally forgot about Patton Oswalt go ahead, what was his well.

744
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:10,799
Speaker 2: Experienced He likes to scuba dive, and he ends up

745
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 2: getting picked up in one of those planes I don't

746
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 2: know the proper name, that picks water up to dump

747
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 2: it on forest fires, and he got picked up with

748
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 2: the water and dropped up the tree and died. And then,

749
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 2: of course the other coincidence is that he actually had

750
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:26,880
Speaker 2: had an encounter, a kind of violent altercation or a

751
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:30,400
Speaker 2: skirmish with the guy who ultimately was flying the plane

752
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:33,919
Speaker 2: at his blackjack table where he's a dealer a week

753
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:35,440
Speaker 2: or two prior, a few days prior.

754
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:37,759
Speaker 1: And then that pilot of Pilono, learning what happened, kills

755
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 1: kills himself. Okay, so which brings me to admire the

756
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 1: brio again. But there's a sense of self satisfaction to these,

757
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:48,279
Speaker 1: all of these sequences here that I still find a

758
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 1: little off putting. And there's a flippancy and a glibnus

759
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 1: to it as well, especially when you think about the

760
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 1: actual violence being recounted in these stories. So there's that

761
00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:00,399
Speaker 1: element that's our first maybe eight minutes or whatever. Then

762
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 1: we get this mannic sequence introducing all of these characters,

763
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:05,839
Speaker 1: all of these people we've been talking about, and the

764
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:10,360
Speaker 1: filmmaking itself is just too much here. I still stick

765
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,480
Speaker 1: to that it's like he's coming into his powers but

766
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 1: is not fully in control of them. Think about the

767
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:19,720
Speaker 1: way I would describe it, It's like Peter Parker going

768
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 1: out to websling for the first time.

769
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:21,839
Speaker 7: Right.

770
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,400
Speaker 1: We've seen those scenes in how many Spider Man movies,

771
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:28,279
Speaker 1: and you're odd at what he's doing and experiencing. But

772
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:30,440
Speaker 1: every once in a while he hits a wall and

773
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:32,879
Speaker 1: he's going to have to get up and try again.

774
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 1: And this is where the camera pushes really did start

775
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 1: to bother me. I think half of the shots as

776
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 1: we meet each of these characters again, maybe it's to

777
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:45,799
Speaker 1: develop consistency to connect them, but it pushes right in

778
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 1: at a dramatic moment on the central figure. I also

779
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:51,279
Speaker 1: think there's an over reliance on the first Amy Man

780
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 1: song we hear one to create a sense of montage

781
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:58,400
Speaker 1: that otherwise isn't really there in the actual filmmaking. If

782
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 1: you look on it, we get those repeat pushings, but

783
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:03,479
Speaker 1: the song is doing most of the work to create

784
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:06,840
Speaker 1: a montage out of this. So again like you're wowed

785
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:10,240
Speaker 1: at what's being attempted here and and and maybe that's

786
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,880
Speaker 1: enough for most people for you, but I think this

787
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 1: movie for me, Magnolia gets really good once it settles

788
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 1: down and stops trying to prove itself. And I think

789
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:24,319
Speaker 1: that happens eventually, once we've met those other characters, we'll

790
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:26,720
Speaker 1: get like that showy single take through the TV production

791
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 1: studio that maybe we need to see every floor a

792
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 1: room in the entire building, impressively done, impressively scored. But

793
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:37,080
Speaker 1: when Magnolia settles down, that's when it's closer to a

794
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 1: master work.

795
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:52,120
Speaker 4: Hey, come here, Ah, I'm gonna try talk, and I'm

796
00:39:52,120 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 4: trying to say something something, Do you know? Do you know? No, Bully, No,

797
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 4: I don't. Oh excuse my love my life, love of it.

798
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:11,880
Speaker 1: Access to the full Film Spotting archive going back to

799
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:13,759
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800
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:17,480
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801
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802
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803
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:27,040
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804
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 5: This conversation can serve no purpose anymore.

805
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:31,400
Speaker 3: The burn.

806
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:50,920
Speaker 2: Film Spotting is listener supported. Join the film Spotting Family

807
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808
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811
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 2: film Spotting Family dot.

812
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:07,920
Speaker 3: Com panoply

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Speaker 8: MHM