Speaker 1: Welcome to Movie Crush, a production of I Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: Hey everybody, and welcome to Movie Crush Friday Interview Edition,
Speaker 1: a very special edition because I have to win some
Speaker 1: lovely ladies staring at my face over the internet. Any
Speaker 1: recent Holly Fry, And we're here to talk about just
Speaker 1: a little movie called The Empire Strikes back Up start
Speaker 1: indie film kind of is exactly, so take it away.
Speaker 1: I'll be back in an hour. At an hour, Annie
Speaker 1: and I need an hour just to talk about Irvin Kirshner.
Speaker 1: Then with them we'll move on. I mean, I'm counting
Speaker 1: on both of you to sort of fill me with
Speaker 1: knowledge because obviously this is um, well not obviously. This
Speaker 1: is my favorite movie of the whole franchise, as it
Speaker 1: is a lot of people. Uh. And it came out
Speaker 1: when I was nine years old, after having seen Star
Speaker 1: Wars in the theater when I was six, um three
Speaker 1: or four or five times, I don't remember how many
Speaker 1: times I went. And I loved it obviously, but the
Speaker 1: difference between six years old and nine years old walking
Speaker 1: into a theater with that anticipation is a really big thing.
Speaker 1: And um it just oh, there's something I can't even
Speaker 1: articulate what it was like being a kid and seeing
Speaker 1: this goddamn movie. Yeah, I've become such a because I
Speaker 1: don't remember a time never having seen Star Wars. I've
Speaker 1: become like a collector of people's experiences because I can't
Speaker 1: I can never have that like shock factor of I've
Speaker 1: always known the big fist at the end. So I'll
Speaker 1: ask you if i'll take notes, like what was it like?
Speaker 1: Did you see it coming? What did you think? None
Speaker 1: of us saw that coming. None of us had a clue.
Speaker 1: It literally it was a gasper and I, Um, I
Speaker 1: have such funny memories from the first time I saw it.
Speaker 1: I went with it's a It was a weird time
Speaker 1: in my life. My family was about to move from
Speaker 1: where we had lived for quite some time to a
Speaker 1: new place when my dad was military, so we moved periodically,
Speaker 1: and like it was one of the last things I
Speaker 1: did with my best friend's family. Um, so I have
Speaker 1: like weird stuff tied to that. Like there's a great
Speaker 1: memory that I will never forget where I was sitting
Speaker 1: next to her mom, who was the sweetest woman, and
Speaker 1: during the snow speeder chase, she just leaned over to
Speaker 1: me and said I think I'm gonna barf, Like, just
Speaker 1: the motion of that on the big screen was so
Speaker 1: unlike what anybody had seen. We forget that every moment
Speaker 1: of these films was really quite groundbreaking, and so I
Speaker 1: always think of it as when Sandy thought she might
Speaker 1: throw up during the movie. Yet, you know what hit me?
Speaker 1: Last night and this morning. I had to split it
Speaker 1: up because I had to do a very late night
Speaker 1: West Coast thing for book promotion, which was fun, but
Speaker 1: I ended up it was like twelve fifteen last night,
Speaker 1: and I was like, I gotta finish this in the morning.
Speaker 1: But it um, there were so many firsts in this movie. Uh,
Speaker 1: and I've noted them and we'll kind of get to
Speaker 1: him here and there. But I was just sort of
Speaker 1: struck by how many first there were in the franchise,
Speaker 1: Like little things like it was the first time, you know,
Speaker 1: when when Vader floated down those stairs during the battle,
Speaker 1: It's like it was the first time we saw him
Speaker 1: move like that, And I remember being a kid being like, oh, shoot,
Speaker 1: he can do that. This just got ten times scary.
Speaker 1: A lot of little things like that throughout the whole movie.
Speaker 1: Though that ended up you sort of take for granted now,
Speaker 1: but they were done for the first time in this
Speaker 1: movie well, and a lot of things that changed movie
Speaker 1: making that we're done for the first time. What right? Like?
Speaker 1: Um So Phil Tippett of course very well known now
Speaker 1: in effects and animation, but this was like the first
Speaker 1: time he invented go motion, which is stop motion. Normally,
Speaker 1: you pose your your character, your armature, you take the picture,
Speaker 1: you move it, you take the picture. He had the
Speaker 1: idea when they were animating the ad Ats, which some
Speaker 1: people like to say A T A T. I like
Speaker 1: ad At. Both are fine people, people people get I
Speaker 1: didn't know this was a controversial every it's Star Wars.
Speaker 1: Everybody wants to fight about everything, but I'm a big
Speaker 1: fan of both are great. Um. But he had the
Speaker 1: idea of what if we take the frame while we're
Speaker 1: actually moving the aperture so it looks like it has
Speaker 1: motion blur. That completely changed stop motion animation like forever
Speaker 1: in that one moment um. He later, of course continued
Speaker 1: to innovate in that space with Jurassic but um where
Speaker 1: he was like the person that was like, okay, if
Speaker 1: we're going digital, we had to figure out how to
Speaker 1: use these skills and movies over here, but like I mean,
Speaker 1: that's one of those things that now go motion gets
Speaker 1: used it all the time. Standard, it's a standard approach
Speaker 1: and it was innovated on this film. Annie, what was
Speaker 1: your entry point as a younger Star Wars fan, as
Speaker 1: in someone who you know wasn't nine years old when
Speaker 1: it came out in nineteen eighty anniversary. I'm glad we
Speaker 1: got this in. I had that shart too. I'm wearing
Speaker 1: it magic. I'm just the best. Yeah, I Like I said,
Speaker 1: I don't remember a time not seeing them. Um. And
Speaker 1: it was one of the few movies because we only
Speaker 1: had one TV and one vc IR, so Star Wars
Speaker 1: was one of the few series that there was no
Speaker 1: fighting between my siblings and my parents. Like, we all
Speaker 1: liked it. The last thirty minutes of every VHS ended
Speaker 1: up getting ruined. Um. I had a huge crush on
Speaker 1: Luke Skywalker Mark Hamill. It was my longest running, strongest crush,
Speaker 1: uh and particularly Luke Skywalker and Empire Strikes Back. What's
Speaker 1: my favorite? Even though at the time Return of the
Speaker 1: Jedi was my favorite movie, which I think is interesting
Speaker 1: because I didn't have all the expectations that people had
Speaker 1: for Return of the Jedi. So I think that's why
Speaker 1: it's still my second favorite, like because I was a
Speaker 1: kid when I saw it, and I didn't have all
Speaker 1: this like what's gonna happen. I'm just always known, um
Speaker 1: we saw it in theaters when it was rereleased. It's
Speaker 1: just got all this like nostalgia for me. And during
Speaker 1: the pandemic when I'm so stressed, it's become like I'm
Speaker 1: on a Star Wars bender, like such a Star Wars Bending. Yeah, comparatively,
Speaker 1: And you know, keeping with my tradition, I watched Empire
Speaker 1: Strikes Back with my mom before this, and she was
Speaker 1: the sweetest and she listened to all my very like
Speaker 1: walky Star Wars opinions. And then when I told her
Speaker 1: about my like very silly quest to get Mark Hamill
Speaker 1: to tweet at me, She's offered joined Twitter and get
Speaker 1: him to do it. I was like, well, that is
Speaker 1: the sweetest thing you've ever said to me, But please don't.
Speaker 1: I don't want to actually talked to my daughter. She's
Speaker 1: so nice. No, I'm too shy. I'm too shy to
Speaker 1: do anything. But it's not gonna happen. But you know,
Speaker 1: we've been mentioned and tweets together, so I might said that, right,
Speaker 1: he was handsome in this. I was when I was
Speaker 1: watching it finishing up this morning. There were a couple
Speaker 1: of shots, and I don't know, I never really thought
Speaker 1: of him as that handsome because he's next to Harrison
Speaker 1: Ford and uh, but today I was like, you know,
Speaker 1: Mark Hamill's he looks pretty hot in this. He has
Speaker 1: the most beautiful eyes. Oh my gosh, yes, right, I'm
Speaker 1: not even Luke was never my thing. I was definitely
Speaker 1: a Han girl, but like, I was not ignorant of
Speaker 1: the fact that he was, you know, had incredibly beautiful
Speaker 1: eyes and he does have that key little chin. And
Speaker 1: I totally got my friends who were like Luke. I
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, I get it. I love the conspiracy
Speaker 1: theory because you know, there was that like car accident
Speaker 1: and people I was reading articles celebrating the four yeth
Speaker 1: anniversary and some people were like about Mark Hamdill's car accident.
Speaker 1: He died in it, and he's not even the same person.
Speaker 1: I'm like, he looks the same to me, he just
Speaker 1: looks older. Yeah, it's wild, that's crazy. Carrie Fish is
Speaker 1: so beautiful in this too, and I was maybe I
Speaker 1: was too young at six years old. But I wasn't
Speaker 1: one of these kids who had a big crush on
Speaker 1: Princess Leia. Um. But again, watching it last night, and
Speaker 1: this is the first time I've seen it, and probably
Speaker 1: I mean prepared to be offended, but probably six or
Speaker 1: seven years Um, but I was just I was like, man,
Speaker 1: carry Fisher was just beautiful in this movie. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: particularly this is to me like all of Leiah's best looks, right,
Speaker 1: but those are her best costumes. Yeah, that hair, that
Speaker 1: best been gown is what made me fall in love
Speaker 1: with clothes. That's one of the two garments that I
Speaker 1: can literally pinpoint and go, this is why I love clothes. Um.
Speaker 1: I did not wear my best been lay Ac costume
Speaker 1: for this recording, but I do have several versions of
Speaker 1: it ready to go at any time. I have one
Speaker 1: that I made. I have one that I made just
Speaker 1: for running in because I ran the Princess Half Marathon
Speaker 1: wearing it one year. Um. But yeah, yeah, oh, she
Speaker 1: looks so spectacularly beautiful in this film. Yeah. And they're
Speaker 1: the chemistry with her and h Harrison Ford and you know,
Speaker 1: especially in that beginning, um Hallway exchange is just so
Speaker 1: white hot and cute and um, it's just just palpable.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's uh, it just jumps off the screen
Speaker 1: as as these two are. And especially now that you
Speaker 1: know later on when we see what happens with them,
Speaker 1: it's really fun to go back and see those early
Speaker 1: days of of the scoundrel and the in her worship,
Speaker 1: you know, which is funny because apparently they were not
Speaker 1: getting along on set. Yeah, um yeah. And I don't
Speaker 1: know if you've read Princess Diarists where she talks about
Speaker 1: how during Star Wars they did have an affair according
Speaker 1: to her in any case, um, and that like that
Speaker 1: was apparently over and things were a little contentious at
Speaker 1: this point, and so it's kind of funny that what
Speaker 1: came of that, what blossomed out of it, was this
Speaker 1: fantastic on screen energy, um, which is pretty interesting. I've
Speaker 1: always said that this is the most romantic movie to
Speaker 1: me in the entire world, and is about as much
Speaker 1: romance as I can handle in a movie. Just no
Speaker 1: shade to the rom coms they're just I can't whereas
Speaker 1: this is like, yes, a little bit of fighting and
Speaker 1: a little which is not how I am with my
Speaker 1: husband at all, But for film. This is it you
Speaker 1: bring the romance at home? Sure, um, I do want
Speaker 1: to ask related to this, have either of you read
Speaker 1: from a certain point of view? There are now two
Speaker 1: volumes of it, uh that so Chuck to catch you
Speaker 1: up on what it is. They are these anthology books
Speaker 1: that um have come out. There's one for a New
Speaker 1: Hope and now the one for Empire just came out recently,
Speaker 1: where they get a ton of different writers and they
Speaker 1: each write a short story about some element of the movie,
Speaker 1: and then they piece it all together and you kind
Speaker 1: of get a different view of what was going on
Speaker 1: in that in that film from different characters, like even
Speaker 1: in in the Empire one, you will think very differently
Speaker 1: about the Wampa afterwards. But what's really fun to me,
Speaker 1: and why I mentioned it now, is because several different
Speaker 1: writers chose to create this thing, and I don't know
Speaker 1: how much they conferred with each other on this particular
Speaker 1: point that, like everyone at Echo based new Han and
Speaker 1: Leah were into each other and they were so sick
Speaker 1: of watching him trying to impress her by kind of
Speaker 1: being a jerk. But also and it just makes it
Speaker 1: even funnier for me now, like workplace complaints right where
Speaker 1: they're just like there was a betting pool going on
Speaker 1: among the coms team about when he would finally just
Speaker 1: tell her he liked her, and like it's it's such
Speaker 1: a fun read for anybody that's into Star Wars. I
Speaker 1: think did one of the mcaroy's right on one of those. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: there are five story and a new hope. I think. Okay,
Speaker 1: that sounds I think so, but don't quote me on
Speaker 1: that because I'm I can't make new memories. By the way,
Speaker 1: we should also say, uh acknowledged David Prowse, who passed
Speaker 1: away recently, very big loss for the Star Wars community. Yeah. Yes,
Speaker 1: and who apparently um leaked the most things during this movie. Yeah.
Speaker 1: He was like, isn't there like six people they said, no,
Speaker 1: don't tell anything. Yeah that he um he was not
Speaker 1: told about the the Vader being Luke's father thing because
Speaker 1: they didn't trust him at that point. Yeah, people knew,
Speaker 1: and then like when the cast saw the movie, I
Speaker 1: guess the sound people knew. They're like, wow, I didn't
Speaker 1: know that well when they were when they filmed, allegedly
Speaker 1: like that line wasn't said at all. Mark Hamill knew
Speaker 1: and He reacted as though it had been said they
Speaker 1: told him the night before, but David Prowse did not
Speaker 1: know at all, so he just thought, like, this will
Speaker 1: insert something later, not knowing how much gravity that moment
Speaker 1: would have. Oh did they just say like, uh, how
Speaker 1: should I gesticulate? And He's like, hmm, maybe as if
Speaker 1: you're saying something really important and shocking. Maybe we're still
Speaker 1: we're still working on the script. I don't I don't
Speaker 1: know who do you all picture when or do you
Speaker 1: picture anyone at all? And is it just Vader? But
Speaker 1: do you picture Hayden Christensen grown up? Or James Uh?
Speaker 1: I was about to say James al Ray like a dummy? Um,
Speaker 1: James old Jones or Prowse, um, Sebastian Shawn. Who's that, Charles?
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Chassis Um he is the he was originally
Speaker 1: you know at the end of Jedi when the mask
Speaker 1: and helmet come off, that's Sebastian Shaw. Okay, I'm looking.
Speaker 1: Now tell your sister you were right. Well, yeah, now
Speaker 1: that i'm looking, I forgot about that guy. Okay, it's
Speaker 1: totally you should picture. Well. The other first in this
Speaker 1: movie is um Or. One of the other first is
Speaker 1: when you you see that, you know, iconic shot from
Speaker 1: the rear, when that helmets coming on to get that glimpse.
Speaker 1: And I remember being nine years old and maybe just
Speaker 1: being a dumb nine year old and not knowing any backstory.
Speaker 1: I that was the first time I was sort of like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, like there's a real human in there
Speaker 1: and he is messed up. Yeah, yeah, I think this
Speaker 1: This movie is so great because the first one is
Speaker 1: like really fun and it has all these archetypes we
Speaker 1: can connect to. The second one is just like deepens
Speaker 1: those things and Darth Vader, like I a kid, I
Speaker 1: just thought, oh, he's the monster. I didn't really put
Speaker 1: much depth into him. But by introducing him like no,
Speaker 1: he's human, you can see him and he's got he's
Speaker 1: kind of messed up, and actually he's the father of
Speaker 1: the hero character. And it just adds so much and
Speaker 1: it ups the steaks. And I mean every time I
Speaker 1: watched this movie my friends can confirm this, I react
Speaker 1: as though I am learning for the first time. Oh
Speaker 1: my god, it's so shocking. I mean, that whole sequence
Speaker 1: is uh, it may be the one of the best
Speaker 1: looking sequences in the whole franchise, with the steam and
Speaker 1: their silhouettes and that that orange lighting everywhere. It just
Speaker 1: looks fucking fantastic and it holds up so so well, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a favorite twenty minutes of cinema of all time.
Speaker 1: And this is my favorite movie of all time. If
Speaker 1: that wasn't clear. But I also noticed that behind Vader
Speaker 1: at that scene, it's like a spider web, that the
Speaker 1: thing behind him, and he's like a spider at the
Speaker 1: center waiting in this trap. And then that's repeated it
Speaker 1: with the Emperor in Return of the Jedi, where it's
Speaker 1: sort of like a spider web behind him and we
Speaker 1: didn't even have quickness yet, so I just go a
Speaker 1: little too far. Just um, they're they're like spider like creatures.
Speaker 1: I think we first saw them in Star Wars Rebels
Speaker 1: and then, um, they're very similar, but I think not
Speaker 1: an identical species to the thing that showed up the
Speaker 1: things that showed up in the ice cave in the
Speaker 1: Mandalorian that freaked a lot of people, including my husband out.
Speaker 1: It was a little too real for him. In the
Speaker 1: arachnid zone. Umricks, well, since you brought up the Mandalorian,
Speaker 1: this is our first taste of Bubba Fett and what
Speaker 1: is it about Bubba Fett? Is it the mystery? Is
Speaker 1: it that cool ass outfit? Like I remember being a
Speaker 1: kid and everyone just being like who is that? And
Speaker 1: why do I want to run out and get that
Speaker 1: action figure next and shoot that rocket into my mouth?
Speaker 1: And which we never got to do. Um. I don't
Speaker 1: know because I was never a Boba Fette person. I UM.
Speaker 1: I was literally the person in terms of Bounty Hunters
Speaker 1: that came out of this movie and was like, what
Speaker 1: is that lizard dud about? Like I was way interested
Speaker 1: in boss and I um but uh yeah. As a
Speaker 1: fun little trivia moment, do you guys remember the first
Speaker 1: time Boba Fette's name was ever set on screen in
Speaker 1: a movie? No, it's not that right, t oh yeah,
Speaker 1: because he had been in the Holiday special, But his
Speaker 1: name isn't isn't uh isn't mentioned until Elliott is playing
Speaker 1: with his action figures and he mentions Boba Fett. First
Speaker 1: time it was said in a film. Well, that's one
Speaker 1: of the things about these movies is a lot of
Speaker 1: things aren't ever mentioned. But because they were so successful
Speaker 1: at merchandizing and like, right, they became their own legendary thing. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like the Wampa. You never he walks. I'm pretty sure
Speaker 1: has never said um. And for Palpatine it's never said.
Speaker 1: At least it needs like original trilogy and we all
Speaker 1: kind of know that stuff because that's how impactful these
Speaker 1: But we saw the Emperor for the first time in
Speaker 1: this one, which is another thing I love because you
Speaker 1: start with Darth Vader thinking he's the ultimate villain and
Speaker 1: in this one they're like, there's someone else. He's got
Speaker 1: a boss. Yes, yeah, that was a big deal, um,
Speaker 1: because you know, Darth Vader was the scariest. It really
Speaker 1: kind of hit me last night of how ingrained, especially
Speaker 1: when you see these things as a kid, like I
Speaker 1: guess everyone probably does. Tie Fighter bad, Imperial Cruise are bad,
Speaker 1: Vader bad, Stormtrooper bad. It's just you don't even think
Speaker 1: of them. It's so ingrained. It's like a part of
Speaker 1: our d n A even now, Like when I see
Speaker 1: those tie Fighters and I hear that sound, I'm just like,
Speaker 1: oh no. And when I see those X wings, I think,
Speaker 1: all right, it's so weird. It's instant. Shout out to
Speaker 1: Ben Burt for those sound designs. Amazing. I think the
Speaker 1: sound design in the music. This is the first time
Speaker 1: you hear Imperial March, which is just iconic. Um. And
Speaker 1: I've read recently we did an episode on Princess Leo
Speaker 1: over on stuff I never told you, And I just
Speaker 1: read all these fascinating articles about how Star Wars is
Speaker 1: a part of like American mythology. You can't even if
Speaker 1: you don't know, it's a part of you. Even if
Speaker 1: you haven't seen it, you probably know the twist. And
Speaker 1: there are these things that have you've absorbed without knowing
Speaker 1: about these movies. I'm gonna have to listen to that
Speaker 1: episode and the longest outline I've ever written, it's twenty
Speaker 1: five pages. Oh wow, I can't wait, because it's Leah
Speaker 1: really comes into our own in this movie. And I
Speaker 1: think it's easy to take for granted, um, the fact
Speaker 1: that you're seeing a movie in nineteen with a woman
Speaker 1: given the orders to the army. And I was nine,
Speaker 1: so you didn't think about that stuff then. I just
Speaker 1: thought like, yeah, that makes sense, But looking back, that
Speaker 1: was a really big deal. Yeah. And I like to think,
Speaker 1: you know, when you meet Leiah, she's already a hero,
Speaker 1: Like she's already there. Luke and Han have to like
Speaker 1: go on these journeys, and she's sure she has an
Speaker 1: arc as well. But I love how Luke breaks in.
Speaker 1: He's like, I'm here to rescue you, and she's like, no,
Speaker 1: this isn't. Let me take over this plan for Yukas.
Speaker 1: This isn't good. I love she was a badass, but
Speaker 1: I think in this movie she became a true leader,
Speaker 1: or not became one. You know, Like all great Star
Speaker 1: Wars movies, it joins it in progress, which is one
Speaker 1: thing I just love about, and especially Empire, it joins
Speaker 1: with so much inertia, with all that first act stuff
Speaker 1: on hof and leaves you with the greatest cliffhanger in
Speaker 1: movie history maybe. And I remember being thrilled at the
Speaker 1: cliffhanger and so upset that I was going to have
Speaker 1: to wait. Uh And he didn't have to wait. You
Speaker 1: got to just pop in the next one. It was
Speaker 1: cruelty to have to wait years. It was a little brutal. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was very hard for a young boy. Sorry for
Speaker 1: your difficulties. Oh yes, these are the greatest trials of
Speaker 1: our lives. Um actually, but also go ahead, Oh, I
Speaker 1: was just gonna say what a risk it was to
Speaker 1: put it in the middle of this trilogy, to give
Speaker 1: us such a dark film, to give us a cliffhanger.
Speaker 1: This is the one where Lucas was like, no, I'm
Speaker 1: going to pay for it myself with a lot of
Speaker 1: borrowed money that he was very nervous about and had
Speaker 1: to do a lot of like hat in hand kind
Speaker 1: of promising to various people to make it all happen. Yeah, yeah, wow,
Speaker 1: I didn't know that. Yeah. Yeah. He was pretty disillusioned
Speaker 1: by the studio system by the time uh Star Wars,
Speaker 1: which now we call a New Hope was done, And
Speaker 1: so I mean he was doing this and like Lee
Speaker 1: Brackett was working on the original screenplay, while he was
Speaker 1: getting Lucasfilm really established as a full company and not
Speaker 1: just kind of like a company on paper that was
Speaker 1: needed for legal reasons. Like he was getting the offices
Speaker 1: set up in Marin County, he was getting his team together,
Speaker 1: he was getting I LM really up to speed to
Speaker 1: be able to do the level of effects that he
Speaker 1: wanted now that he could do a slightly bigger budget movie. Um,
Speaker 1: it's it's a lot to think about somebody in their
Speaker 1: twenties going like I'm going to take on thirty three
Speaker 1: million dollars of debt and take a risk that will
Speaker 1: either make my career or kill it. Yeah. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: what my point was going to be similar to that
Speaker 1: of like at this time there weren't really sequels. They
Speaker 1: were thought of as worse. And then to have this
Speaker 1: movie coming off this really like popular fun you know,
Speaker 1: space romp Um to start in the middle, Like I,
Speaker 1: until I was reading about this, I didn't really realize
Speaker 1: it has no real beginning, it has no real ends um,
Speaker 1: and it's yeah, it is darker and it has these
Speaker 1: just more complicated themes. And then you're introducing like a puppet,
Speaker 1: which there are so many things about Star Wars that
Speaker 1: now we just love them and we know like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is gonna succeed, But you didn't know that was
Speaker 1: gonna work, like introducing a mentor that was played by
Speaker 1: a puppet. Like I very clearly remember adults in my
Speaker 1: life going, wait, they're gonna have muppets in this one,
Speaker 1: like just complete incredulity that it was ever going to
Speaker 1: be anything worthwhile. But you did. I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: give me the puppets, that's cool, um, But adults were
Speaker 1: a little jaded ready to you were Oh no, I was.
Speaker 1: I wasn't. I was nine like you. I didn't have
Speaker 1: incredulity yet. Like, there's also the whole They start with
Speaker 1: their big action sequence, which is a flip of most
Speaker 1: blockbuster movies, A lot of them do it now I think, well,
Speaker 1: after this, yeah, this changed completely. This the trilogy setup,
Speaker 1: the way that the stories are told in those, and
Speaker 1: then also the Summer Blockbuster, which I didn't know, but
Speaker 1: this was the beginning of a New Hope. At the
Speaker 1: beginning of the Summer Blockbuster m I might argue Jaws,
Speaker 1: well Jaws, yeah, but um, did you know what New
Speaker 1: Hope was rescheduled because of Smokey and the Bandit They
Speaker 1: thought that was going to be more successful. Hey, very quick,
Speaker 1: that makes sense right, It's like big names, it's fun,
Speaker 1: it's comedy, sexy ladies like I could see where somebody
Speaker 1: on paper went, this is the movie that's going to
Speaker 1: make money this year. Like I understand that. So uh.
Speaker 1: Everyone talks about Larry Kasten and the writing, but someone
Speaker 1: I don't know much about is Lee Brackett, and I
Speaker 1: would love to hear more about her. Well. One of
Speaker 1: the reasons we don't know a lot about her is
Speaker 1: because she died two weeks after she finished the initial script. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she had cancer. She wrote this while she was, um,
Speaker 1: you know, in the ends of her treatment. So she
Speaker 1: wrote this the first draft by herself, and then it
Speaker 1: was handed over to Lawrence Caston and George Lucas. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so that's that's one of the reasons there have been
Speaker 1: many discussions over the years about how much is really
Speaker 1: hers that remains in the final version. Um. But yeah,
Speaker 1: she she doesn't get a lot of attention because she
Speaker 1: was not around and she didn't, you know, work on
Speaker 1: subsequent projects. She didn't do the revisions on it, etcetera.
Speaker 1: Do we have any real intel on her original story? Um? Yeah, so,
Speaker 1: I mean those original drafts exist. Like one of the
Speaker 1: interesting things is that Yoda had I think he was
Speaker 1: called the critter in the very first one, um, and
Speaker 1: then that that evolves a few times, but they're all
Speaker 1: kind of names like that, where it's like the little monkey. Um,
Speaker 1: the theme's got a little bit darker in the rework. Um.
Speaker 1: I haven't done a lot of a lot of scholarship
Speaker 1: level study of of how that shifts. I feel like,
Speaker 1: wasn't it in her version? There was the twin was
Speaker 1: revealed at the end in her name was like Nellis
Speaker 1: or something. There were some other um, some other familial
Speaker 1: shifts I know that went on, Like I think obi
Speaker 1: Wan was even introduced as possibly being Luke's parentage instead
Speaker 1: of Vader. Um. Yeah, there were a lot of stuff
Speaker 1: did change from when to the next. And let's talk
Speaker 1: about Irban Kirshner. Uh to say about the curse? Well,
Speaker 1: it's interesting, right. The last movie he did before this
Speaker 1: was Eyes of Laura Mars, which is a fade dunaway film. Um.
Speaker 1: There's he had done a lot of television directing. He
Speaker 1: got his his big break really because rodd Or Corman
Speaker 1: let him direct some TV. Um. But it's interesting because
Speaker 1: everyone associates him with this film, like he could make
Speaker 1: whatever he wanted for the rest of his life and
Speaker 1: he was always going to be Empires director. What else
Speaker 1: did he do? He? Um? Oh, I was I was
Speaker 1: not ready to shift gears back to what else Kirsch did?
Speaker 1: What's interesting? Um, I want to mention in terms of Empire,
Speaker 1: most people will say, I think you guys would agree.
Speaker 1: I know I would that in terms of acting and character,
Speaker 1: this is the strongest of the original trilogy, and it's
Speaker 1: because Kirshner was very into like, let's work with the
Speaker 1: actors on set, let's improvise, let's do this, which drove
Speaker 1: production bananas because this film went way over budget. It's like,
Speaker 1: when we're out in the the snow of Norway, is
Speaker 1: not really the time to spend a lot more money.
Speaker 1: So people can say this one line a few different ways, um,
Speaker 1: but he was like, no character driven, we gotta let
Speaker 1: these actor to figure this out. Uh. That's really because
Speaker 1: of Kirshner. So it looks like he did never say
Speaker 1: never again the Bond film, and that was the next
Speaker 1: thing he did, right when Connery came back a few
Speaker 1: years later. And then RoboCop two. Wow, I haven't seen that,
Speaker 1: So I don't know how to react to robot Cop two. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean it's it's been a while for me to
Speaker 1: be it's not RoboCop one, that's all I'll say. Well,
Speaker 1: I haven't seen robot Cop one, so I don't know
Speaker 1: how to react to that. Uh. So we talked a
Speaker 1: little bit about the clothes. I mean, part of the
Speaker 1: fun of of seeing this as a kid was literally
Speaker 1: just seeing different hairstyles and different clothes. You know Han, Uh.
Speaker 1: They are all sort of in largely the same clothes
Speaker 1: in the first movie, except for you know, with a
Speaker 1: couple of exceptions. But just seeing Han in that jacket
Speaker 1: instead of the vest, uh, and seeing Luke sort of
Speaker 1: styled out just a little bit more and not in
Speaker 1: his in his armed boy outfit, really kind of cool stuff.
Speaker 1: His hair looks darker too. I think all those winter clothes. Yeah, boy,
Speaker 1: how look in that fuzzy coat listen, which is brown?
Speaker 1: By the way, on film it looks blue. Oh is
Speaker 1: it that actual costume pieces brown? One of us might
Speaker 1: have followed around the Star Wars costume exhibit as though
Speaker 1: it were the Grateful Dead. My note here says uh
Speaker 1: Han was so hot in his snow bunny clothes last
Speaker 1: night I was watching, I was like, vah bah boom.
Speaker 1: I forgot about that jacket dar me. Yeah, Han on
Speaker 1: a Tanton is pretty gallant. That's some dashing business. That
Speaker 1: stuff still looks pretty good too. I mean it's go motion,
Speaker 1: which you know, obviously he's not gonna hold up to
Speaker 1: like today's standard, but it looks pretty great. I think
Speaker 1: the uh, the Tontons look good. I think they shot
Speaker 1: him in a pretty smart way with when they weren't moving,
Speaker 1: they just sort of did those pretty pretty tight close
Speaker 1: ups where you just got a taste of the rest
Speaker 1: of the animal um and you know, you thought they
Speaker 1: smelled bad on the outside. It's one of the great
Speaker 1: lines ever. Yeah, that has so many quotable lines. Of
Speaker 1: most of them Rahans too. I don't know, that's got
Speaker 1: a few pretty much everything. Joda says, it's kind of
Speaker 1: quotable just because as a kid, you like doing that voice. Yeah,
Speaker 1: see if you can pull it off. What are your
Speaker 1: some of your favorite iconic moments that are not you know,
Speaker 1: I'm your father, Like that's sort of on the nose ones.
Speaker 1: I know you're thinking of three thousand things each, I know,
Speaker 1: I know. I love literally everything with Lando. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: everything with Lando. I really think nobody gives Billy Williams
Speaker 1: enough credit for how stink and good he is in
Speaker 1: this movie. Yeah, Like he could have been chew the
Speaker 1: scenery level charmer, but he downplays it just enough that
Speaker 1: he's just smooth his silk at every turn, even when
Speaker 1: he's being choked. But you really get a sense of
Speaker 1: their friendship and um there, and he even sort of
Speaker 1: has a little uh outfit homage at the end when
Speaker 1: he's wearing that vest I never really picked up on
Speaker 1: that before. Well, I feel like they were like, maybe
Speaker 1: Han Solo won't come back, so this might be Solos
Speaker 1: wearing his clothes. How did y'all feel about the Han
Speaker 1: Solo movie? Seeing the scene where he won the how
Speaker 1: he won the Millennium Falcon? Did that? We're all good
Speaker 1: with that? You can't you can't see me on the
Speaker 1: microphone drawing hearts in the air. I I seriously love
Speaker 1: that film, Like I Solo was like perfect for me? Okay, Annie, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I I loved it too. I thought it was really
Speaker 1: fun um and it inspired a lot of debates, very
Speaker 1: silly debate between me and my friend about like did
Speaker 1: Lando have sex with the Millennium Falcon? Which don't weigh
Speaker 1: in it's stupid. But you're not the only people having
Speaker 1: those discusses. In my heart, I know that's why. I
Speaker 1: just not surprising at all. But it's been a minute
Speaker 1: since I've seen it. I did love Donald Glover's Lando, like, oh, yes,
Speaker 1: so good, one of the great casting calls of all time.
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, perfect. The cape like his little cape,
Speaker 1: I ha Cape closets dream. Yeah, I mean, oh, I
Speaker 1: was just gonna say, I think it pretty nicely and
Speaker 1: carefully set up, you know, their relationship in retrospect in
Speaker 1: a way that wasn't for me too heavy handed. I
Speaker 1: know some people thought it was a little a little
Speaker 1: too on the nose at times, but I really thought
Speaker 1: it was kind of pitch perfect. Yeah. I liked it.
Speaker 1: I need to see it again. My first viewing experience
Speaker 1: wasn't great, so that's never good. I need to give
Speaker 1: it to do um. But in Empire, I remember when
Speaker 1: I was nine, just being so devastated by the double
Speaker 1: crossing when those doors open and you see Vader. I
Speaker 1: was crushed, and you know, he redeems himself obviously, but
Speaker 1: I was really really upset. You know. I remember thinking
Speaker 1: because I'm a Pisces, and pisces are all about loyalty
Speaker 1: and friendship and I didn't know that at the time,
Speaker 1: but there wasn't anything worse you could do. And I
Speaker 1: still feel that way than than betray a friend like that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's ugly, but I think it's also an interesting entry
Speaker 1: point for kids, whether they're cognizant of it or not.
Speaker 1: I'm sure none of us were like, oh, this gives
Speaker 1: me a way to think about the nuances of the
Speaker 1: difficulties of life. But it does it you realize, like,
Speaker 1: if he hadn't betrayed Han all of the people that
Speaker 1: he was responsible for investment, we're potentially going to die
Speaker 1: or be enslaved. It's like, that's a I wouldn't want
Speaker 1: to be put in that position. And he says, and
Speaker 1: he makes it quite clear over and over. Best Bin
Speaker 1: is bt dubs the one place in the Star Wars
Speaker 1: universe I would move without hesitation, although I doubt I
Speaker 1: could afford an apartment. I'm looking up Best But now
Speaker 1: and then you know, I was thinking about like just
Speaker 1: the set pieces in this and they're amazing because you
Speaker 1: got half and like this barren snowy place, and then
Speaker 1: you got dug above, which is the swamp. And then
Speaker 1: I what I love about Best Bin is it's beautiful,
Speaker 1: it's stunning, but then like when you go in deeper,
Speaker 1: it becomes this kind of laborate trap, like like the lighting,
Speaker 1: the orange and the blue and juxtapositions, so it's like
Speaker 1: really pretty on the outside, but the deeper and deeper
Speaker 1: you go, the more frightening and unsettling. It is. Look,
Speaker 1: everything beautiful has to be supported by probably an ugly infrastructure,
Speaker 1: so always a cloud city. What is cloud city? To
Speaker 1: explain that? What's the best been compared to cloud City? Oh,
Speaker 1: it's just a different word. Yeah, okay, Yeah, we don't
Speaker 1: mean to confuse yourself, I know. I mean that's why
Speaker 1: I have y'all in here, you know, well, and I
Speaker 1: mean to be fair, right, best Bin is in fact
Speaker 1: the planet. It's the gas giant in the star system
Speaker 1: that is the best Bin system, and then cloud City
Speaker 1: hovers above all that. Man, this is great. I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1: I love this so much. Sorry. Um yeah, so, but
Speaker 1: it gets used interchangeably on the casual so that's what's
Speaker 1: up with that. Yeah. I have another first here on
Speaker 1: my list. When Luke gives Chewy that little scratch on
Speaker 1: the neck, which is great and adorable. That's sort of
Speaker 1: the first time I think that we see Chewy kind
Speaker 1: of treated like an animal, and you know, like you
Speaker 1: would scratch a dog, and he clearly loves It's not
Speaker 1: an animal though, I've never really thought about that anyone
Speaker 1: else ever scratched him like that. I'm trying to think
Speaker 1: if he got i know, Leiah hugs him right in
Speaker 1: a New Hope, but I don't know if she gave
Speaker 1: him any scratches in the process. That scritch was so cute,
Speaker 1: it is. Listen, I like scritches. It doesn't make me
Speaker 1: an animal. Scratch your neck. You probably like that, right,
Speaker 1: I like it. I'm always scratching my own head like
Speaker 1: I'm a kiddie. So yeah, just delightful. I like to that.
Speaker 1: We get a little bit more of Han and Chewy's
Speaker 1: kind of married people bickering, fighting over the repairs, and like, listen,
Speaker 1: I'm doing my part, yes, And I love the Millennium.
Speaker 1: Falcon is like this old car that never really works,
Speaker 1: but it's so loved any well, it's so well used
Speaker 1: in this movie. The running joke of the hyper space
Speaker 1: jump and that great sound effect you know that weren't
Speaker 1: like literally like a sad trombone version of the Spaceship. Uh.
Speaker 1: It's it's great. I mean it's a classic movie thing
Speaker 1: to to bring something back a few times and then
Speaker 1: you think you need it all these times, but when
Speaker 1: you really really really need it, it comes through. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: and it's also like a lovely I always think of
Speaker 1: the Millennium Falcon is really like the part of George
Speaker 1: Lucas's roots that just loves muscle cars and like drag
Speaker 1: racing and all of that. It is the beater that
Speaker 1: delivers when you need it. It's great. Yeah, And I
Speaker 1: like to think of the Empire just having all these
Speaker 1: headaches over the ship that in Fury, like it's just
Speaker 1: breaking down all the time, and yes, it manages to
Speaker 1: get away, did you guys? Um? This is one of
Speaker 1: those things every time I watched this movie, because this
Speaker 1: one was the first time we really see what a
Speaker 1: dick of a manager Darth Vader is, where I was
Speaker 1: just like, who would want to work for the Empire? Like,
Speaker 1: what is the benefit? Is it the only way that
Speaker 1: you make any kind of money in the galaxy during
Speaker 1: this time? Because I don't see another reason to take
Speaker 1: this job. Yeah, I mean I have a Star Wars
Speaker 1: drinking game, and every time he chokes somebody is definitely one.
Speaker 1: I have to imagine there's some type of pride I
Speaker 1: would think of, like being competent enough for Vader, but
Speaker 1: I'm sure it's just fear all the time. And then
Speaker 1: I'm also kind of perplexed at his plan in general,
Speaker 1: Like I don't know why he went after on in
Speaker 1: La when he could have just got after Luke. But
Speaker 1: you know, Vader's got a Vader. I it's definitely an
Speaker 1: organization where you probably have to give some thought of
Speaker 1: how high you want to work up that ladder um,
Speaker 1: you know, like the need that much better to be
Speaker 1: chokable or to just be one of those dudes. It's
Speaker 1: definitely flying under the radar, Like there's so many and
Speaker 1: I didn't even notice this much until this viewing, so
Speaker 1: many great little side I shots of all these guys
Speaker 1: that are like, oh ship is he? Especially oh boy
Speaker 1: at the end when it finally does jump to hyperspace
Speaker 1: and everyone's looking around like, oh god, are we all
Speaker 1: gonna be toast and knuckles on the executive he walks
Speaker 1: by that one guy that sort of puts them on
Speaker 1: an iPad kind of like okay, he's just walking by,
Speaker 1: and right as he walks by, he goes and no
Speaker 1: one gets killed, And it's just it's such a kind
Speaker 1: of funny moment. I think that you gotta be a
Speaker 1: little bit older to appreciate I have. I told you guys,
Speaker 1: I have two cats named after Imperial officers in this film,
Speaker 1: what are they awesome? And Viers? Okay, which which ones
Speaker 1: are they are? The two they're gray? That was kind
Speaker 1: of the cell to my husband when Um, a friend
Speaker 1: of our rescued them and I immediately wanted to with
Speaker 1: the kittens out of the four that they had rescued,
Speaker 1: and I was like, but they're in little They're great.
Speaker 1: They're like in little impure uniforms. Brian, we called Osla Beers.
Speaker 1: That was the cell. How many how many cats do
Speaker 1: you have? Now? Five? Okay? And now Ozalin Beers are
Speaker 1: are elderly gents there about to turn sixteen. So there. Wow,
Speaker 1: they've survived Vader. Now which guys are they in the movie?
Speaker 1: Are they the main two? Osal is the one that
Speaker 1: gets choked because he comes at a hyperspace too close
Speaker 1: to the hot system? Oh? Is he the one that
Speaker 1: gets choked and dies? Yeah? That scene amazing. It's almost
Speaker 1: like a sketch, a comedy sketch. Oh yeah, like Mr
Speaker 1: Show or something. He's just falling down in the background
Speaker 1: and the other guys kind of like half listening and
Speaker 1: half like Okay, this is happening right now? Right? Yeah?
Speaker 1: P is like when do I step into frame? Like
Speaker 1: I don't know what to do here. Um, and then
Speaker 1: General Maximilian Beers is the one that leads the ground
Speaker 1: assault on Okay. You see him in the cockpit of
Speaker 1: one of the adults, and he's one of the few
Speaker 1: imperials that survives. Yeah. I think it's one of the
Speaker 1: fun things about this movie is you can you can
Speaker 1: laugh at some of this stuff in that scene which
Speaker 1: is kind of corny in the end, which you know,
Speaker 1: the guy flitting around on his little tablet or whatever,
Speaker 1: and you can find humor in that and not. It's
Speaker 1: not like dissing the movie in any way. No. I
Speaker 1: actually one of the things when I think about why
Speaker 1: I love these movies so much, I think it that's
Speaker 1: part of it. Is there so sincere. There are these
Speaker 1: really goofy elements, like the ice cream maker guy or
Speaker 1: gonk or that his name is Will row Hood. I
Speaker 1: like calling ice cream maker guy his name is Will
Speaker 1: row Hood. I know he's a back story, but he's
Speaker 1: always ice cream maker. A guy to men would happen
Speaker 1: at some point. But I love that. We just love
Speaker 1: it so much and it it because it's so sincere
Speaker 1: and so genuine. It works and you can find like
Speaker 1: joy in those things instead of like making fun of it.
Speaker 1: It's sort of like, oh, this joyful experience. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: it's very difficult, I think, to pull that off, but
Speaker 1: they did it totally. Uh, let's talk about the genius
Speaker 1: of splitting with bringing everyone together at the beginning. These
Speaker 1: characters that we love so much had that great uh
Speaker 1: first act, so much action and adventure and then splitting
Speaker 1: everyone up. We're splitting up Luke from from the Gang
Speaker 1: and splitting up our two and three p O. It
Speaker 1: was just such a smart move, Like structurally, I think, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I've never really appreciated how Mark Hamill really doesn't act
Speaker 1: with a lot of human people. In this movie, him
Speaker 1: and Frank Oz hanging out in the swamp, and he
Speaker 1: couldn't really hear him, right, so he's just kind of
Speaker 1: like reacting when they pointed at him hear him because
Speaker 1: he was under a platform performing well, I mean like no,
Speaker 1: apparently not like you know, he just was was removed
Speaker 1: from the main set in a way that they would
Speaker 1: have had to drill holes I think everywhere to make
Speaker 1: the sound carry upward. Yeah, all that stuff is so
Speaker 1: great though, I mean getting introduced to the Hath was
Speaker 1: a big deal because you see something different. Seeing Dagoba
Speaker 1: for the first time was this really cool new world,
Speaker 1: even though it was gross and swampy, and uh, I
Speaker 1: love camping and I love small spaces. So and it
Speaker 1: may have started with Yoda's hut quite frankly, because last
Speaker 1: night I was getting all the spiny tingles when he
Speaker 1: was in that little tiny space and had that fire going.
Speaker 1: I was just like, how man, I want to live
Speaker 1: in that thing. I should send you a recipe for
Speaker 1: root leaf stew you can complete the Yeah, there's a
Speaker 1: really good one actually in the Galaxy said cookbook. I
Speaker 1: thought I would hate it. Um. That cookbook is amazing,
Speaker 1: by the way, for anybody who has not picked it up,
Speaker 1: I have literally made every single recipe in it and winners, winners.
Speaker 1: It's not um, it's not like a lot of novelty
Speaker 1: cookbooks are really really aimed at kids and like people
Speaker 1: that don't cook. But this has legitimate cooking going on
Speaker 1: in it. Um. And root leaf stew is like this
Speaker 1: great little vegetarian mushroom and root vegetables thing that has
Speaker 1: cinnamon in it. And I thought I would not like it,
Speaker 1: and in fact I love it. There's my plug for
Speaker 1: a book that I have nothing to do with the
Speaker 1: fact that I read it a lot. Any have you
Speaker 1: ever made Star Wars meals Chuck? Of course I've made
Speaker 1: Star I love this. I love feeling like you're in
Speaker 1: the minority. I know, right, it's so rare. Well duh
Speaker 1: on life day. I know, I know, you know my deal.
Speaker 1: I love the ship out of these movies, but I
Speaker 1: just didn't next level. You didn't. Yeah, y'all exist next level.
Speaker 1: So it's a wonderful thing. Yeah, I mean. And speaking
Speaker 1: of first, this is the first time you meet Yoda,
Speaker 1: and uh, he is so opposite of what you would
Speaker 1: think when you think of this like Jedi warrior. And
Speaker 1: I love that they play on that Luke is immediately
Speaker 1: like no, it's not you like, leave me alone. Um.
Speaker 1: And I love because this is a pretty classic Heroes
Speaker 1: arc with Luke's storyline, but I love how it's this
Speaker 1: one in particular, like he starts needing rescuing and he
Speaker 1: ends needing rescuing and it's just like constant failure, and
Speaker 1: it makes it it feels like this is more of
Speaker 1: a person now unless like this hero caricature, this is
Speaker 1: somebody who has a lot to learn and has like
Speaker 1: these struggles overcome and then you get that big reveal
Speaker 1: at the end and you're like, well, now this is
Speaker 1: way more complicated and like everything I knew to be
Speaker 1: true isn't true? And what do I do with that?
Speaker 1: And what how dangerous that is? Like they say, this
Speaker 1: is a very dangerous time for you, Luke, it is.
Speaker 1: That's why I like Luke and that's uh, maybe we
Speaker 1: should all just do a Return of the Jedi together too,
Speaker 1: can we please? Yeah, let's do it because that movie
Speaker 1: I've already done a new hope, but we should do
Speaker 1: it again. Tarn Killium picked that, which is speaks to him.
Speaker 1: But um, that's one thing I didn't like about Jedi
Speaker 1: was that Luke was too much of a badass, and
Speaker 1: I was like, where's that guy? That kid that needed help?
Speaker 1: He was too tough and too too good doing what
Speaker 1: he did, which is funny because you know, it's a
Speaker 1: very much dialed back version of Luke than what Mark
Speaker 1: Hamill initially wanted to do, Like he wanted to be
Speaker 1: like even more ripped, yes, completely like you know, super
Speaker 1: hard ass, like really really bill like he'd been doing.
Speaker 1: And George Lucas just like, No, the point is that
Speaker 1: he learns that none of that is what actually gives
Speaker 1: you strength. There's a Jedi. Yeah, Um, it's about like
Speaker 1: learning where your center is and and being part of
Speaker 1: the living force and not necessarily going out and dominating things. Um,
Speaker 1: that's a nice segue actually to the I feel like
Speaker 1: an empire. We get more of the spirituality and much
Speaker 1: more of the force and sort of what that means.
Speaker 1: It's obviously uh Obi wan Kenobi hinted that stuff in
Speaker 1: the first one, But uh, I don't know what you
Speaker 1: people call it? What is it? The religion? You people? Right? No,
Speaker 1: next levelers, next levelers call it? Because I don't want
Speaker 1: to say the wrong thing. I'm scared now, Like if
Speaker 1: you call if you call um what the Jedi order
Speaker 1: a religion? Yeah? Or just the force? You know it?
Speaker 1: Really you get more more knowledge about it in this
Speaker 1: as what it is. That's a clumsy way to say it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's easy to take for granted
Speaker 1: out that we've seen them and they've been a part
Speaker 1: of our cultural psyche for so long, But at this
Speaker 1: point you didn't really know much about the forest and
Speaker 1: the light side in the dark side and um, like
Speaker 1: that whole vision in the cave, that like really creepy
Speaker 1: vision and having Yoda say things like luminous beings are
Speaker 1: we um it did. And I remember as a kid,
Speaker 1: and I think this is really funny now because I
Speaker 1: think it speaks to who I became. I really was
Speaker 1: suspicious of the force. I was like, I don't know
Speaker 1: about this, and I was I was. I was thinking
Speaker 1: Luke was getting tricked and I was like, you need
Speaker 1: to stay away from this whole thing. Yeah, And I
Speaker 1: would get really mad about it. My brothers should be like,
Speaker 1: what are you talking about? Like, no, I don't. I
Speaker 1: don't trust any of this, even at four. And actually,
Speaker 1: you know, it's interesting now with the prequels and everything.
Speaker 1: I always thought that, oh god, this is probably a
Speaker 1: bigger discussion. But I always thought that Luke had what
Speaker 1: made Luke special. They were kind of trying to destroy
Speaker 1: and it. And then in the end, you know, he
Speaker 1: kind of chooses he makes his own path, which worked
Speaker 1: out in various not so great ways but also good ways.
Speaker 1: But like when he throws away his lightsaber and he
Speaker 1: has to confront Vader, and as a kid, I was like, well,
Speaker 1: why are they making a confront Vader. I don't understand. Um,
Speaker 1: you could keep saying no violence, but now I know
Speaker 1: confront doesn't have to be right, confront doesn't mean physical fight. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I will say I think I have some
Speaker 1: of those same seeds because to me, the parts of
Speaker 1: the Star Wars saga that are most interesting and beloved
Speaker 1: by me are not the Jedi parts. It's like the
Speaker 1: scrappy people just trying to make their way in the universe. Um,
Speaker 1: because all of that dogma, did I I do the
Speaker 1: same thing where I lean away from it and I'm like, yeah, um,
Speaker 1: I don't know about this, Yeah, I don't. I would
Speaker 1: not have been a part of the Jedi order for sure. Well,
Speaker 1: I think you know, you're spawning to human stories, and like,
Speaker 1: these movies would not have worked had there not been
Speaker 1: you know, a great love story at the heart of it,
Speaker 1: and and stories of redemption and the hero's journey, Like
Speaker 1: that's all I got to be there. Otherwise it would
Speaker 1: have been uh, I'm trying to think of sort of
Speaker 1: a bad kind of corny space movie from back then.
Speaker 1: But you had to have those elements for it to work. Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, the the heart of it I mean, I
Speaker 1: say this about everything, but I firmly believe in my
Speaker 1: soul like what most people are responding to in stories
Speaker 1: is all about identity and how they identify themselves, how
Speaker 1: they identify interacting with that story, and who they identify
Speaker 1: with in the story. And in this case, you have
Speaker 1: a bunch of people. Luke is trying to figure out
Speaker 1: who the hell he is and what this new information,
Speaker 1: which is a little bit bonkers to be taking in.
Speaker 1: I mean, do you remember Chuck as a kid when
Speaker 1: Obi one showed up was a ghost? Were you like,
Speaker 1: what the hell is going on here? Like it completely
Speaker 1: cracked the whole thing open in a new way. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I remember being very confused and there being a lot
Speaker 1: of playground debate about how those lightsabers worked, because like
Speaker 1: it'll cut off a hand, it'll also vanish a motherfucker.
Speaker 1: But also he's alive in another We thought he was
Speaker 1: just in like another dimension or something, and there was
Speaker 1: just a lot of speculation about how it worked and
Speaker 1: where old ben Kenobi went. I still don't know if
Speaker 1: I understand it. That's just one of those things where
Speaker 1: like there is a lot of uh later information that
Speaker 1: kind of helps bolster those stories right where Quigan is
Speaker 1: really the first one that figured out that that idea
Speaker 1: of becoming so one with the force, that death was
Speaker 1: not the end um and that you could still communicate
Speaker 1: with people in the physical realm, which just kind of
Speaker 1: ironic because that's what Palpatine was promising, right, and he
Speaker 1: wanted it so bad and he couldn't get it. And
Speaker 1: I do have a question for you guys, and I
Speaker 1: don't I'm presuming everyone is up on the Mandalorian. I'm
Speaker 1: not the season okay, um, so Annie, take my headphones
Speaker 1: off for a couple of minutes if you want this.
Speaker 1: This really will not matter at all. I don't think
Speaker 1: you we all know. I'm not going to give any
Speaker 1: spoilers because I it's so fun to have the discovery
Speaker 1: on that show. But so we know at this point
Speaker 1: that the baby is fifty. The last time I watched Empire,
Speaker 1: I had this like gobsmacked moment because Yoda mentions that
Speaker 1: he has been training Jedi for eight hundred years. He
Speaker 1: mentions in Jedi that he's nine hundred years old, so
Speaker 1: by this time scale, it's like he was still a
Speaker 1: little kid when he started training Jedi, right, Because like
Speaker 1: don't know what happens in the fifty years between fifty
Speaker 1: and a hundred, that's true, but developmentally the baby is
Speaker 1: still real, little and very much a baby at fifty.
Speaker 1: So it was just, Ah, it makes me look at
Speaker 1: everything about Yoda differently, where I'm like, is this why
Speaker 1: he is so childlike in so many ways? Is that
Speaker 1: just an aspect of this species that they always retain
Speaker 1: that kind of like silly, impulse driven wonder for the
Speaker 1: entirety of their lives. Um, yeah, it's a It makes
Speaker 1: Yoda super interesting in new ways to me. Maybe he
Speaker 1: was exaggerating. Um, Yoda never lies. Another thing that's funny
Speaker 1: about I guess me as a kid is I also
Speaker 1: I like Yoda, but that's a type of character. I'm
Speaker 1: automatically suspicious of the wise old character that's the mentor
Speaker 1: that seems to know everything. So I was really like,
Speaker 1: you know, I like your voice and you're funny, but
Speaker 1: I don't think I don't see what you're doing. Are
Speaker 1: you manipulating me? I don't like this like this. Um.
Speaker 1: But one of the things I really love about this
Speaker 1: movie is it the whole thing feels kind of dream
Speaker 1: like and surreal and definitely on dega boat that gets upped,
Speaker 1: Like it just feels like, is this really happening right now?
Speaker 1: Am I hallucinating? You know? It? Is? It like if
Speaker 1: they would have pulled the rug out and said that
Speaker 1: was a dream sequence the whole time, it would have
Speaker 1: made a little bit of sense, um because it is
Speaker 1: sort of surreal. And Luke keeps saying things about like
Speaker 1: I feel like I've been here before and uh he
Speaker 1: alludes to some of that stuff. And it also like
Speaker 1: as far as the first go the u when that
Speaker 1: X wing is is floated out of the swamp, that
Speaker 1: was I remember being a kid and and being like, okay,
Speaker 1: so wow, the force is much more than lifting rocks
Speaker 1: and uh, and you know, being able to close your
Speaker 1: eyes and block laser shots with a lightsaber, like the
Speaker 1: true true power of it really kind of hit home
Speaker 1: when that X wing and it was such a great,
Speaker 1: great part of the movie. Yeah, I know, Tucker with
Speaker 1: t t he said that's his favorite, his favorite scene. Um,
Speaker 1: that is why you fail. Uh and the music there
Speaker 1: is so great. I yeah, I cried this morning, you guys.
Speaker 1: You know which part. And I didn't see it coming.
Speaker 1: It just all of a sudden my eyes balls were
Speaker 1: leaking at nine a m. Do you want to take
Speaker 1: a guess? I want to make an ug not joke,
Speaker 1: but that's not I wanna Is that like a knock
Speaker 1: knock joke? Oh? The ug knots on Cloud City, those
Speaker 1: little those little pig face looking dude in the Mandalorian
Speaker 1: Queen is an ug not. This is the first time
Speaker 1: we see ug knots, which also become important and that
Speaker 1: would make me cry. I don't know, maybe anyone. And
Speaker 1: you gotta guess. See three po getting blasted the pieces
Speaker 1: kind of funny, so you're the second half? Uh oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: there's a clue. Content is it when Leah senses Luke? Fuck? Yes,
Speaker 1: it was. That's a moment for me too that sometimes
Speaker 1: triggers me unexpectedly because out of nowhere, I don't think
Speaker 1: there's a human alive that has more expressive eyes than
Speaker 1: Carrie Fisher. In that moment, Yeah, it was. I mean
Speaker 1: I was just watching the movie having a good old
Speaker 1: time and that music swelled. Yeah, I'm like starting to
Speaker 1: get choked up even just thinking about it, so let's
Speaker 1: just move on. But I was fully fucking crying on
Speaker 1: the couch, very very powerful moment, and I was just like,
Speaker 1: what is it. I've seen this movie dozens of times
Speaker 1: after all these years as a forty nine year old
Speaker 1: man to just break down in tears like that, Like,
Speaker 1: what is it about these people? It's remarkable? It is
Speaker 1: it is. I mean, I, like Holly said, I feel
Speaker 1: like you are. Do I identify with these people? And
Speaker 1: it just feels I had a friend who refused to
Speaker 1: watch Star Wars for the longest time, and she kept saying,
Speaker 1: I don't like space and I don't like sci fi.
Speaker 1: And I was like, yeah, she doesn't like things in space,
Speaker 1: and I was like, it's not. It's like a a
Speaker 1: fantasy or a fairy taler. It's these archetypes. He seems
Speaker 1: we all connect to you, Like, if you take away
Speaker 1: that space part, we're just we're into these human characters
Speaker 1: and how they connect and interact with each other. And
Speaker 1: it's so powerful. Still, like I said, I still act though.
Speaker 1: When Luke gets his hand cut off and the relevlation comes,
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, this is awful. Every time I have
Speaker 1: a theory on why it sets you off, Chuck Um.
Speaker 1: Just because there's there is a great deal of emotional
Speaker 1: resonance in that moment, and I think part of it
Speaker 1: is right like we see Luke right before that at
Speaker 1: an extraordinarily terrifying point, right like he is literally dangling
Speaker 1: from a weather vane over a gas giant, like we
Speaker 1: don't know. And the idea that at your very darkest time,
Speaker 1: someone that just loves you enough, that you have a
Speaker 1: deep enough connection that they will just know you need
Speaker 1: help is very moving. And since you did mention as
Speaker 1: a Pisces that like those kinds of like loyalty relationships
Speaker 1: are very important to you, I would see why that
Speaker 1: would be a real touch point for you. Will you
Speaker 1: be my therapist? I can't find a good one. Online
Speaker 1: therapy sucks. I have been very happy with online therapy.
Speaker 1: Really yeah. My my therapist that I had for four
Speaker 1: years left though this year she decided to start teaching
Speaker 1: full time, which sucked because she was really into Star Wars.
Speaker 1: So we had all of this like shorthand where we
Speaker 1: could talk about it and she would talk about Darth
Speaker 1: Vader psychology forever if I let her, which was great.
Speaker 1: So like, sometimes I feel like my husband is just
Speaker 1: nothing more than a scruffy looking nerve d I feel
Speaker 1: you and then he pops in the background in the
Speaker 1: zoom and goes, who's scruffy looking? Yeah. I tried this
Speaker 1: one new guy online therapy and I literally could tell
Speaker 1: he was distracted and like surfing the internet or something,
Speaker 1: and I ghosted him. I just like I left the meeting.
Speaker 1: I was like, Mmm, I'm not even gonna finish this one. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if it's not working, that's not If it's not working,
Speaker 1: it's not working. He emailed me and he's like, was
Speaker 1: there something wrong with your connection? I was like, dude,
Speaker 1: I'm not even gonna email you back. Yeah, there was
Speaker 1: something wrong with the connection. He wouldn't have sensed you
Speaker 1: dangling from a weather vein and meeting help. No, what
Speaker 1: are some of the other favorite lines? Um, never tell
Speaker 1: me the odds? I mean, that's one of the greats,
Speaker 1: laughing up, laughing up, buzzball, do you or do not?
Speaker 1: Do or do not? It's cliche, but damn that's some
Speaker 1: good advice. No, I'm your father, which everyone not everyone
Speaker 1: gets wrong next leveler certainly don't. But it's one of
Speaker 1: the misquoted lines in movie history, I think, don't you know, Yeah,
Speaker 1: one of the most misquoted. Yeah, I do it. I
Speaker 1: don't do it anymore because I'm the next leveler, as
Speaker 1: you say, but I did when I was younger. I've
Speaker 1: got one line that it is not iconic, but I
Speaker 1: think it was such a great efficient way to set
Speaker 1: up who Lando is. Is that exchange that that he
Speaker 1: and that Hanna Leia have right when they get there,
Speaker 1: She goes, can you trust him? And he goes, no,
Speaker 1: but he's got no love for the Empire. I'll tell
Speaker 1: you that. Like, that's all you need to know about
Speaker 1: the guy not trustworthy but ultimately on our side. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: and then becomes a heroic general of the the resistance.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. I was always I'm not mad about this,
Speaker 1: but I was always kind of like, wow, Han came
Speaker 1: out of this carponite thing and then just trusted Lando immediately.
Speaker 1: I kind of like, wait, admit, let's talk about the
Speaker 1: Carbon Nite Okay. How awful that scene was to see
Speaker 1: for the first time. It was very upsetting. There was
Speaker 1: a lot of I mean again, because I'm in your
Speaker 1: age group. I remember hearing other kids in the audience
Speaker 1: go is he dead? Like immediately, and that the look
Speaker 1: on his face. The way they did it, it was
Speaker 1: it was meant to devastate. Yeah, and it succeeded. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And he's said right now, it is interesting Again. I
Speaker 1: get sometimes I get really jealous that I didn't have
Speaker 1: this experience of not knowing, But um, it is interesting too.
Speaker 1: Remember that these were made like kids were in minds largely.
Speaker 1: And I find it really interesting that George Lucas like
Speaker 1: talked to child psychologists and was like, is this really
Speaker 1: going to mess them up? Especially with Vader? And that's
Speaker 1: why he was told that if a kid really couldn't
Speaker 1: handle it, they wouldn't believe it because it was a
Speaker 1: villain saying I am your father. But that's why, And
Speaker 1: Jedi Yoda confirms it's like, no, actually he really is. Yeah.
Speaker 1: He Um, he gave that great quote. You might have.
Speaker 1: You probably read the same thing any where he was.
Speaker 1: He was telling someone there has to be as we
Speaker 1: go out of this movie, if we're going to leave it,
Speaker 1: there a level of deniability to that fact, because otherwise
Speaker 1: kids cannot cope for three years in the sadness of it,
Speaker 1: like you have to give them a trap door to
Speaker 1: be like, no, he's the bad guy. So he was lying, right, Oh,
Speaker 1: and I that's it's I love hearing you guys talk
Speaker 1: about this because again I've just always known Han came
Speaker 1: out of the Carponite, so I didn't have that like
Speaker 1: it was upsetting. And I if he hadn't come back
Speaker 1: and he had, just if Harrison Ford had not come
Speaker 1: back and Han Solo was just lost some hanging on
Speaker 1: job as wall, that would have been very, very upsetting. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I think this is to talk about the experiences
Speaker 1: of being a kid and having to wait, and then
Speaker 1: the way that you were able to consume it. It's
Speaker 1: just proof that there is no right way. Uh, and
Speaker 1: it's just a little different. I mean, part of me
Speaker 1: is jealous that you got to dive right into the
Speaker 1: sequel and didn't have to wait. I'm not gonna sit
Speaker 1: here and say like, no, it was better to have
Speaker 1: to wait in the suspense and everything. It was awful.
Speaker 1: That's all we talked about for I mean, however many
Speaker 1: years it was until Jedi came out. Three Um, but
Speaker 1: you can you can consume these in different ways at
Speaker 1: different ages and they're all great and okay and correct. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And in those three years you got to carry around
Speaker 1: those sweet sweet Kenner carry cases full of toys. Although
Speaker 1: that was getting to the age. I'm curious about this
Speaker 1: for you, Chuck Um, because I know for me, I
Speaker 1: remember seeing Jedi when I was twelve and saying something
Speaker 1: about it at school, and some snarky little mean ger
Speaker 1: always like Star Wars is dorky. And I wasn't like
Speaker 1: embarrassed or shame but I was like, I'm just not
Speaker 1: going to talk about Star Wars with people for a while.
Speaker 1: This is mine alone now, um, which is funny because
Speaker 1: one of my closest friends from high school, he and
Speaker 1: I did not know until much later in life that
Speaker 1: we had both been Star Wars dorks the whole time,
Speaker 1: because we both had that experience of like, I just
Speaker 1: won't talk about this with people because not everybody's going
Speaker 1: to get it. I don't remember there being any sort
Speaker 1: of dorky. I don't know. Maybe I was naive. I
Speaker 1: was definitely naive, I'll tell you that, but I kind
Speaker 1: of thought everyone loved it. I had a because I
Speaker 1: had two brothers, and Star Wars was seen as a
Speaker 1: more mascu than thing. Like I was telling you, before
Speaker 1: we got started to check, my parents always gave them
Speaker 1: the Star Wars stuff, even though I liked it just
Speaker 1: as much and so I almost had a pressure to
Speaker 1: like I was protected within the shield of my brother's world,
Speaker 1: where I they thought it was cool, and I was
Speaker 1: trying to be cool enough for them, so they'd let
Speaker 1: me play with their Star Wars toys and that sort
Speaker 1: of shielded me from because I was a pretty like
Speaker 1: I dressed as Jedi for Halloween, Like I was a
Speaker 1: pretty outward fan. But I just felt so like because
Speaker 1: I had those brothers to compete with, I was a
Speaker 1: very competitive child. Holly, what did you collect? What were
Speaker 1: your you know, like back then, what did you collect?
Speaker 1: Did you think about leaving them in the package for
Speaker 1: value or were you like just the thing for me?
Speaker 1: And I don't know why, but I loved it as
Speaker 1: a kid. I love it today. Any damn mail away, Yes,
Speaker 1: So after Empire there was this amazing mail away where
Speaker 1: you could get an accessory pack that had the the
Speaker 1: the gas masks that they wear when they're in the
Speaker 1: space lug, some cute little like hot gear backpacks and stuff,
Speaker 1: and that stuff was like you can buy it, No,
Speaker 1: you had to do a mail away with the cardbacks. Um.
Speaker 1: That stuff is amazing and I love it desperately. Um,
Speaker 1: it's one of those things that when I moved away
Speaker 1: from home, I left a lot of my Star Wars toys,
Speaker 1: which my older brother snagged. But I married into an
Speaker 1: even better collection and then regained much of mine, much
Speaker 1: of us totally. I have no idea. We're ridiculous at
Speaker 1: our house. Um, and then I regained some of my
Speaker 1: collection as well. But yeah, I mean I had Best
Speaker 1: Been Leia on my um wedding cake like I don't
Speaker 1: or no, I think Best Been Lea was on a
Speaker 1: secondary table. I had regular classic Leia on the cake.
Speaker 1: So I had a lot of the the you know,
Speaker 1: the small action figures played with him like crazy. I
Speaker 1: had the uh, I guess it was at the twelve
Speaker 1: inch Luke Skywalker doll, but only Luke. For some reason,
Speaker 1: I had to think. I think I had the Millennium Falcon.
Speaker 1: I had a land Speeder for sure, and then I
Speaker 1: had and I still have some of the trading cards
Speaker 1: I had that calendar. I wasn't a comic book guy,
Speaker 1: but somehow I do have that first addition, that first
Speaker 1: issue of the Star Wars comic, and a couple of
Speaker 1: other of the comics. But I wasn't like these were
Speaker 1: you know, we didn't have a ton of money. My parents.
Speaker 1: My dad was a high school or elementary school principle,
Speaker 1: and so we were, you know, solidly middle class kids.
Speaker 1: But it wasn't like I want all the stuff, get
Speaker 1: it for me. It was this Christmas, you'll get this
Speaker 1: many things, and if you mow enough lawns, you'll you
Speaker 1: can get some other stuff. So I had a nice collection,
Speaker 1: but it wasn't exhaustive or anything like that. I feel
Speaker 1: like I should stop talking because I will incriminate myself.
Speaker 1: I'm still collecting at a ridiculous rate. The classics off
Speaker 1: like the vintage vintage. I have a little uh habit
Speaker 1: as you guys, I think now right, Grito is my jam.
Speaker 1: I love Grito in every way, and so I have
Speaker 1: like a whole lot of rescue gritos. Like if I'm
Speaker 1: at a toy show and I'll see a bin full
Speaker 1: of loose figures, I can't leave the gritos. I don't
Speaker 1: want them to be there, sad and grimy and being
Speaker 1: touched by people that don't love them. Um. But also,
Speaker 1: I mean, Brian and I just collect a lot. We
Speaker 1: both had a lot of stuff when we got married,
Speaker 1: but it has only grown and grown and grown, and
Speaker 1: you know, we don't have kids, so like I don't
Speaker 1: have to worry about somebody's college that just goes into
Speaker 1: Star Wars. Um. But yeah, I um ah, there's some
Speaker 1: good toys coming out. That Black Series stuff is, now,
Speaker 1: what's that? The Black Series is the stuff that is.
Speaker 1: I really like the six inch Black Series. They're also
Speaker 1: doing three and three quarter, which is the scale of
Speaker 1: the action figures we got when we were kids. They're
Speaker 1: just a little more detailed, um the six inch one
Speaker 1: obviously because the scale is a little bit larger. Get
Speaker 1: a little bit more detailed. Um. And I one of
Speaker 1: my most beloved possessions right now. It was actually a
Speaker 1: gift from a very dear friend. Um. Sideshow does some
Speaker 1: amazing one six scale figures. And I have the best
Speaker 1: been Lea that came out last year. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: the details, like her little cape is actually embroidered and
Speaker 1: it's all like the most beautiful thing you've ever seen
Speaker 1: on the planet. I would put it in the Loup
Speaker 1: it's that good. Um, it's not even joking. So yeah,
Speaker 1: my best been Leia is up there, and the things
Speaker 1: I collect as well, anything best been Leya. I want
Speaker 1: all right, I just had to look at best been Leah.
Speaker 1: Of course it's great. Yeah, what about you and you
Speaker 1: collect stuff like that? I do definitely, Um, I'm more
Speaker 1: of a shirts person. But also yeah, cosplay pointing as
Speaker 1: this is my cosplay closet. Um, And I was going
Speaker 1: to do a we had a group of Princess Leiah's.
Speaker 1: We were going to be different Princess Leiah's. And then
Speaker 1: I was doing a transition of Luke Skywalker cosplay because
Speaker 1: if you notice, like the first one he's wearing all
Speaker 1: white and this one it's like all gray and the
Speaker 1: next one it's all black. Nice transition that I was
Speaker 1: going to do. And then I did have I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm not proud to admit this, but you know, my
Speaker 1: brother's got all the Star Wars toys and I would
Speaker 1: slowly steal them. Um, so I still have like a
Speaker 1: hidden box under my bed of like the Star Wars story. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not sure where my stuff is. I
Speaker 1: think my brother may have it. Get it back, Chuck.
Speaker 1: I had the calendar. I don't think that comic is
Speaker 1: even around because I think those might actually have a
Speaker 1: little value to them. Yeah, probably, but like who sells
Speaker 1: that stuff. I was about to say some people, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, it's one of those things where I definitely
Speaker 1: know friends that have gotten to a point where they're like,
Speaker 1: I'm just kind of, you know, have it in a drawer,
Speaker 1: but I know there's someone out there that would like
Speaker 1: this would make their year to be able to acquire it,
Speaker 1: and it's they kind of do that balance, especially if
Speaker 1: they're doing like a house purge or something re prioritizing
Speaker 1: how they want to manage their stuff, if they're going
Speaker 1: through a Marie condo phase or whatever, and then they
Speaker 1: will sometimes part with it. I can't part with anything,
Speaker 1: so I just sit on a growing pile of action
Speaker 1: figures you have. I don't know. You know, we don't
Speaker 1: do reckoning at our house. We don't count that's good,
Speaker 1: that's good. Don't do it everywhere. I have an altar,
Speaker 1: which is really a wall, like it started out in
Speaker 1: my sewing room. I have, like, there's a wall that's
Speaker 1: got a door right in the middle that goes um
Speaker 1: into a bathroom. And on one side of it, I
Speaker 1: had said, now the bathrooms pink. It doesn't look like
Speaker 1: take them at all, um, but it goes so on
Speaker 1: one side of that to one side of a door
Speaker 1: I had set up like a little corner and it's
Speaker 1: got shelving in their pieces of art. I collect original
Speaker 1: grito art as well, like all occasionally commission and artists
Speaker 1: to do a painting or whatever. Um, And it has shelves,
Speaker 1: and it has various gritos of all shape, sizes, ILKs types,
Speaker 1: and then there's a little green velvet bench under it
Speaker 1: and that's where I drink my coffee in the mornings.
Speaker 1: But my art and stuff collection has grown, so it's
Speaker 1: now continued across the other side of the door to
Speaker 1: the other part of the wall, and I don't We've
Speaker 1: had to move some art out into the living room
Speaker 1: because it's just um, listen, I I can't contain the
Speaker 1: grito collection. But the movie crushers are gonna want to
Speaker 1: see this, So if you feel comfortable sending me a picture,
Speaker 1: I'll post it on the on the movie Crush page
Speaker 1: and to the delight of everyone, well, I love a
Speaker 1: little love of a little grito art. One of my
Speaker 1: favorite pieces. One of my very dear friends commissioned for
Speaker 1: me last year an artist to do grito like the
Speaker 1: Mexican Saint style. So it's a Santa Grito and it's
Speaker 1: absolutely beautiful and I love it so much, and it's
Speaker 1: on black velvet and it's like everything you can ever
Speaker 1: hope for in life. It's really beautiful. She did a
Speaker 1: really beautiful job. Well, do you all have anything else
Speaker 1: on your notes for Empire? Yes? Well, and Annie, I
Speaker 1: know you've got like eight pages still, yes, let's hear it. Um. Well,
Speaker 1: I would love to talk about the end, like the
Speaker 1: duel with Vader and the loss of hands um, because
Speaker 1: if it's really fun to watch it when you do
Speaker 1: know it's his father, because it feels, you know, Luke
Speaker 1: is the one who attacks first invaders, just kind of
Speaker 1: testing him to see to see what he can do,
Speaker 1: and all these little things, even at his interaction with
Speaker 1: the Emperor reads really differently when you know that Luke
Speaker 1: is his son. So I like having that added layer
Speaker 1: of familial drama, which again I think we can all
Speaker 1: relate to. Uh. And it's just scary, like the way
Speaker 1: he's sort of the shadow hulking after him in this
Speaker 1: maze and kind of just really humiliating him almost like
Speaker 1: drawing it out, and then to lose the hand and
Speaker 1: to lose the innocence of who you thought your father
Speaker 1: was and what you thought your destiny was, and how
Speaker 1: it's what could happen? How did that happen to his father,
Speaker 1: and how could that happen to you? Um, it's my favorite.
Speaker 1: It's my favorite. Yeah, the moment where Luca and I
Speaker 1: remember very distinctly being nine, in the moment where Luke
Speaker 1: releases and chooses to I mean, I'm sure he thought
Speaker 1: he was going to die and getting miraculously saved by
Speaker 1: the coolest slide in space. I do love to like
Speaker 1: Darth Vader was like this is his first taste at parenting,
Speaker 1: and he's like, come with me, and it sounds like
Speaker 1: I'll die first. Vader after that like a nice cut
Speaker 1: back to him just being like, oh, you know, it's
Speaker 1: children or stuffor in Vaders also reading a book on parenting,
Speaker 1: trying to take that plan. Vader like cut off his hand,
Speaker 1: terrorize his friends. Just know that's the way to win
Speaker 1: your child's love. That's the thing I never really thought of,
Speaker 1: because you know, at a certain point, when you see
Speaker 1: something enough and you've seen it since as far as
Speaker 1: you can remember, you don't question why things happen. I
Speaker 1: never really understood it as a child that he was
Speaker 1: letting go to die or potentially die. I just was like, well,
Speaker 1: he's fine, so I don't I didn't think about it right,
Speaker 1: and that weird a series of slides and trapdoors that
Speaker 1: it felt like at that point, Lucas is just like, hey, listen,
Speaker 1: I have this idea for this cool last shot of
Speaker 1: him hanging below the spaceship, Like how do we get
Speaker 1: him down there? When you think about it psychologically though, too,
Speaker 1: write like someone who has had that moment, because going
Speaker 1: into that, Obi Wan and Yodor like, we cannot help you.
Speaker 1: You're you're flying solo if you do this. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: kind of like someone that falls to their death and
Speaker 1: it's a really long fall when they have time to
Speaker 1: think about it, Like you consider what must be going
Speaker 1: through his head as he slides. He's like, is this
Speaker 1: what saves me? Oh no, I'm falling somewhere. I thought
Speaker 1: I gave up, but maybe there's some Now there's no hope,
Speaker 1: like I can't. That's a real like way to mess
Speaker 1: with somebody's hit. Yeah, especially when he sort of comes
Speaker 1: to arrest at the end of the slide, He's like,
Speaker 1: all right, he's trying to get his bearings and then
Speaker 1: he's gone a hatch apparently bad luck? That yeah, bad luck. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was thinking about it when I was rewatching it,
Speaker 1: which I absolutely didn't need to do, but I definitely
Speaker 1: did um because I feel like we all have that
Speaker 1: moment when we become adults and we realize our parents
Speaker 1: aren't superhuman and they're human too, and they can make mistakes,
Speaker 1: and this is like that to the integree like this, like,
Speaker 1: oh no, I couldn't get much worse than this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: have you played Battlefront? Annie? Yeah? They played battle Front?
Speaker 1: Did you play battle Front? To the old battle Front
Speaker 1: to where you could run around in the best spin
Speaker 1: hallways all the time? That was seven right? Was that too? Uh? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I loved all of the best spin tunnel levels. That
Speaker 1: used to be date night at our house. Let's just
Speaker 1: run around best been shooting things for we were seven hours.
Speaker 1: I was actually talking about somebody the other day the
Speaker 1: Super Nintendo version of Empire Strikes Back. The game was
Speaker 1: so hard and how games back then. I don't know
Speaker 1: if it's because like clunky mechanics are I don't know,
Speaker 1: but like that game, I just remember it being so difficult.
Speaker 1: I never played it. Oh man, I mean, I don't
Speaker 1: think I never beat it. I couldn't. It's impossible. Um,
Speaker 1: game engines were very different. They were they were quite
Speaker 1: quite quite different. Something else I wanted to touch on
Speaker 1: because I think this is a really interesting generational gap
Speaker 1: is um I think she just called this old child.
Speaker 1: No no, no, no no no. I almost all of my
Speaker 1: friends I did like a survey before this when we
Speaker 1: were doing our Princess Lea episode. Almost all of my
Speaker 1: friends said they thought Han Solo was way too mean
Speaker 1: for Princess Leah and that she deserved better. And I
Speaker 1: feel like in this movie in general, but yeah, in
Speaker 1: this movie, yeah, well, I mean, I think one of
Speaker 1: the genius things about the character that was that he
Speaker 1: always had one ft out the door. Uh, and you
Speaker 1: never knew. I mean, it was in Star Wars, it
Speaker 1: was in a New Hope, it was in this. You know,
Speaker 1: he's he's always trying to get out of there to
Speaker 1: live his own life and go back to his life
Speaker 1: the anti hero. And yeah, you know that's not necessarily
Speaker 1: being mean Delaya, but he certainly wasn't there for her
Speaker 1: and until he kind of had to be that fair. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm like you, hollywaare I don't like a lot of romance,
Speaker 1: so it was never my thing. I never really thought
Speaker 1: about it too much. And so we did that episode,
Speaker 1: and I've read arguments where it's actually the Han and
Speaker 1: Layer relationship is kind of a flip on traditional stereotypes,
Speaker 1: where he's the one that's like, look, i'm staying, I'm
Speaker 1: helping with your rebellion, but I need you to admit, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: this is worth staying for like that that it's not
Speaker 1: a dead end um. And so when I look at
Speaker 1: it that way, because he was staying like years and years,
Speaker 1: I mean for years, but for a cause he didn't
Speaker 1: purportedly didn't believe in and he kept being like, you know, no,
Speaker 1: that's not it, come on say it, and she just
Speaker 1: wouldn't say anything. So I definitely see that side of it,
Speaker 1: which also gives their relationship more depth than the him
Speaker 1: as a character, more depth they think, well, this is
Speaker 1: one of those things that to me got informed a lot.
Speaker 1: The way I look at it now has shifted because
Speaker 1: of so low right, because in that instance, you see
Speaker 1: that Han's initial impulse regarding relationships is a level of
Speaker 1: loyalty and devotion that is just like beyond and he
Speaker 1: spends all of this time just trying to figure out
Speaker 1: a way to get back to Karelia and rescue Kira,
Speaker 1: and then she kind of screws him over, and so
Speaker 1: like he is emotionally not tall enough to ride this
Speaker 1: ride in terms of like having a grown up relationship,
Speaker 1: Like he does not have the wherewithal to really be
Speaker 1: a good potential, you know, partner for her. Um he
Speaker 1: is emotionally stunted in a lot of ways. I haven't
Speaker 1: often joked in my twenties that Han Solo ruined an
Speaker 1: entire like generation of people in terms of what they
Speaker 1: thought a relationship was. And I used to call it
Speaker 1: Han Solo syndrome because we see women all the time
Speaker 1: who you know at that time would be like I
Speaker 1: really love this guy and he seems great, and but
Speaker 1: he doesn't. He's not really there for me. And I
Speaker 1: was like, you're going after that because this is your
Speaker 1: what you imprinted on. Do you understand that? Yeah, for sure,
Speaker 1: I mean certainly there are other characters throughout history that
Speaker 1: have been like that. He really in a big way,
Speaker 1: Like I think we can all agree that Han Solo
Speaker 1: is probably a very selfish lover. Well, you kind of
Speaker 1: the thing where he's like, he volunteered to be a
Speaker 1: general to run this mission without her knowing, so it
Speaker 1: was like a really an act of love. Anyway, I
Speaker 1: thought about this a lot. Why did you? And there's
Speaker 1: also I'm gonna I know I do this every time, Chuck,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I'm like books. Um. There is a really
Speaker 1: marvelous book that I absolutely love called Last Shot, which
Speaker 1: is written by Dj older Um and it takes place
Speaker 1: in three time frames and it really examines hans development.
Speaker 1: So one is him before he ever meets Leiah. One
Speaker 1: is and when he knew Lando earlier, before all of this.
Speaker 1: Then it's like him, uh, and Lando pulling a job.
Speaker 1: And then it's like him the age we see him,
Speaker 1: not quite the age we see him going into, like
Speaker 1: um force awakens. So at that point, Ben is still
Speaker 1: a little kid. He has not become Kylo Wren yet
Speaker 1: and it's interesting to watch and it's really beautifully written.
Speaker 1: There's also some great body horror in it for anybody
Speaker 1: that's into that. Um Oh, I really really love that book. Uh.
Speaker 1: It's interesting to see Han Solo puzzling out what it
Speaker 1: is to be a husband and father because he just
Speaker 1: he knows he's not equipped to do it, and he
Speaker 1: doesn't know what he's doing and he's spent his whole
Speaker 1: life improvising and magically succeeding, and now he can't really
Speaker 1: do that anymore. It doesn't work in a family dynamic
Speaker 1: to be like I'm gonna do everything by the seat
Speaker 1: of my pants, because Leyo will be like, hey, don't
Speaker 1: feed the baby that, Hey, don't don't. Oh, I have
Speaker 1: to go to work. My moth last calling, put a
Speaker 1: shirt on, like it's um and he's just like ah.
Speaker 1: And it is kind of a nice code to seeing
Speaker 1: this relationship bubble up and be part of our our
Speaker 1: psyche for all these years, to see like where that
Speaker 1: lands when they're actually together, and how really legitimately hard
Speaker 1: it is for him and how much it messes with
Speaker 1: his head. Yeah, I mean there's something there's a difference
Speaker 1: between someone who is selfish and someone who is incapable
Speaker 1: of certain behaviors. Uh. Not to just give any person a,
Speaker 1: you know, a free pass to be selfish, but some
Speaker 1: people aren't capable, yeah, for for reasons that probably go
Speaker 1: back to things like being heartbroken early on or whatever. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And we didn't even talk about the famous improvised line
Speaker 1: you know, I know Hans response to Leia saying I
Speaker 1: love you that was improvised. Yes, because again kers all
Speaker 1: the takes on Earth kersh give it up for the
Speaker 1: poor one out for the kurch, you know, to anyone listening,
Speaker 1: I know, like came on pretty strong in this one. Um,
Speaker 1: but if you've never looked at the behind the scenes
Speaker 1: of how they made this movie, even just images, it's
Speaker 1: amazing and I highly recommended, like the t E T
Speaker 1: s like that there's this trap doors they would come
Speaker 1: up through in the snow and it's just it's so good.
Speaker 1: I mean, the design is great, the snow speeders, like,
Speaker 1: we got to see a lot of new cool stuff.
Speaker 1: I remember being a kid and seeing the uh, the
Speaker 1: way they took him down with the harpoons and thinking
Speaker 1: that was just so that they just used a mechanical
Speaker 1: like like you would trip someone on the playground or something,
Speaker 1: and yeah, it gets referenced in Captain America's Civil War. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: now I loved that too. I loved that they found
Speaker 1: a way to deal with these huge things that were
Speaker 1: impervious to their lasers. Were like, well, we're scrappy, we
Speaker 1: can figure this out. UM and Star tours at disney
Speaker 1: World and Disneyland. There is a hot segment where at
Speaker 1: one point you are under an ad at as it's
Speaker 1: coming down, and it honestly adds a sense of gravity.
Speaker 1: When you next watched the movie, when you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: that stuff is big, y'all like, which is very very fun. Yeah, VR,
Speaker 1: and that's that's you. I'm scared because I'm um. I
Speaker 1: love VR, but I'm really really bad at flight games,
Speaker 1: Like I'm right into a wall within seconds every time.
Speaker 1: I understand. I will say I normally like that, but
Speaker 1: I didn't experience that for this game as of yet.
Speaker 1: I'm not very good. I'll also say that, but I'm
Speaker 1: having fun. Gina, who has never done VR and has
Speaker 1: two thumbs, who could it be? Or his initial c
Speaker 1: B I think it would make me sick. I thought
Speaker 1: that too. The technology is definitely really proved. I'm not
Speaker 1: saying that it won't make you sick, but I do
Speaker 1: have I don't know about Squadrons because I haven't played it.
Speaker 1: I know, UM. I have been playing the the new
Speaker 1: X Lab Tales from Galaxy's Edge, and they have a
Speaker 1: setting in there that is like four people that are
Speaker 1: prone to motion sicknal um. There's also a great thing
Speaker 1: that I discovered while doing that, which was the most
Speaker 1: zen I have maybe felt in the last twenty years
Speaker 1: UM where there's a um a moment at the end
Speaker 1: where you're in the end credits and the way it
Speaker 1: sets it up, you're kind of floating in space and
Speaker 1: the credits are going by, which is a little different
Speaker 1: than they did the credits Invader Immortal, which was their
Speaker 1: previous ex Lab Star Wars VRPS, which was like more
Speaker 1: of a flat thing. So in this, like you literally
Speaker 1: can just sit down and it's like you're floating in
Speaker 1: a starfield, and it honestly felt so relaxing and beautiful
Speaker 1: because you can look all around you in in you know,
Speaker 1: full um three six s and it you look down
Speaker 1: and there's just stars below you, and you look up
Speaker 1: and they're just above you, and everywhere you look, you're
Speaker 1: just out in space and there just happens to be
Speaker 1: credits also rolling through space. But it's honestly, if anybody
Speaker 1: has the opportunity, do not skip the credit sequence. Just
Speaker 1: sit down on your floor to enjoy that moment, because
Speaker 1: it's really beautiful. It's great well, ladies, this was a
Speaker 1: lot of fun, as I knew it would be. Let's
Speaker 1: just go ahead and book commit to do in all
Speaker 1: these damn movies over the next year. I mean why not?
Speaker 1: I mean who else am I going to get? Uh
Speaker 1: monthly Star Wars Rabies. So we'll knock out a Return
Speaker 1: of the Jedi sometime in like January or something that
Speaker 1: sounds good. Yes, yes, please, all right, fantastic, so big thanks.
Speaker 1: You want to plug anything or shout out any twitters
Speaker 1: or instas, ye, Anny, this is when you do it
Speaker 1: so that people know it and we can get Mark
Speaker 1: Hamill to tweet at you. Yes, if anyone has any
Speaker 1: actions to Mark Hammell, I would very much like just
Speaker 1: it could just be hello, that's all. I don't care.
Speaker 1: What is your Twitter handle? Annie? That's how I'm trying
Speaker 1: to help you. I'm so shy. I'm already like, oh no,
Speaker 1: I know she's blushing and the presses it is at
Speaker 1: Annie res A N N U I R E s E.
Speaker 1: You can also find me on saver the podcast s
Speaker 1: A v O R our stuff move never told you?
Speaker 1: There you go, Polly, what else up to these days? Uh?
Speaker 1: You know? Still doing stuff? You wass in the history
Speaker 1: class doing Criminalia, which is historical true crime, which is
Speaker 1: super fun. We're about to finish our season on Lady
Speaker 1: Poisoners and move on to Stalkers. Um. There's also a
Speaker 1: cocktail segment, um where I come up with a drink
Speaker 1: that's themed to the topic of the day. That sounds fantastic. Um.
Speaker 1: You know that has been so incredibly fun to come
Speaker 1: up with cocktails. Um. It's like I didn't know that
Speaker 1: was secretly what I wanted to do with my life.
Speaker 1: I started doing it and like, why was I not
Speaker 1: always doing this? Um? Yeah. And then you can find
Speaker 1: me on Twitter at Surliest Girl. And I also have
Speaker 1: a Star Wars podcast called Full of Fifth Amazing where
Speaker 1: it's more of this. Yeah, that sounds if you want
Speaker 1: to dive even deeper and be a next leveler. All right,
Speaker 1: Thank you, Holly, thank you Annie. Can't wait to do
Speaker 1: this again. Thanks Jack. Movie Crash is produced and written
Speaker 1: by Charles Bryant and Meel Brown, edited and engineered by
Speaker 1: Seth Nicholas Johnson, and scored by Noel Brown. Here in
Speaker 1: our home studio at Pontsty Market, Atlanta, Georgia for I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio. For more podcasts. For my heart radio, visit
Speaker 1: the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen
Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.