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Speaker 1: What if everything you thought you knew about autism and

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Speaker 1: mental health wasn't the full story. Today's conversation might change

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Speaker 1: the way you see it. Welcome to Why Not May,

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Speaker 1: embracing autism and mental health worldwide, where real conversations and

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Speaker 1: lived experiences inspire understanding and hope. I'm Tony Mantor this

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Speaker 1: is where understanding begins. If this kind of conversation matters

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Speaker 1: to you, then follow the show so you don't miss

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Speaker 1: what comes next. Joining us today is Jennifer Kaufman. When

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Speaker 1: we talk about autism, we often focus on individuals or parents,

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Speaker 1: but there's another perspective that can shape understanding in a

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Speaker 1: very powerful way. That's grandparents. Jennifer is an author and

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Speaker 1: advocate who is helping redefine that conversation through her book,

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Speaker 1: Grandparenting on the Spectrum. Her work challenges generational assumptions and

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Speaker 1: opens the door to greater awareness and acceptance. Through her work,

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Speaker 1: she offers insight, compassion, and a bridge to a deeper connection.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us today.

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Speaker 2: My pleasure.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much.

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Speaker 1: Oh it's my pleasure. Let's start this off with telling

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Speaker 1: everybody what you do. Hi.

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Speaker 3: My name is Jennifer Kaufman.

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Speaker 4: I am not only a school principal at a school

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Speaker 4: for kids with autism, but I am also the grandmother

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Speaker 4: of an eight year old who is on the spectrum,

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Speaker 4: my grandson Ben. I am also a speaker, a trainer,

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Speaker 4: an advocate all things autism, work with grandparenting groups, you know,

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Speaker 4: talking to them about my book and all that I

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Speaker 4: write about there. But I also train first responders and

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Speaker 4: police departments and college campus security teams, and I help

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Speaker 4: them better understand what it means to work with somebody

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Speaker 4: who is neurodiverse.

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Speaker 2: So tell us the name of your book. The name

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Speaker 2: of my.

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Speaker 4: Book is Grandparenting on the Spectrum, A Journey from both

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Speaker 4: sides of the Desks.

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Speaker 2: Wow, I like that great title. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: How long did it take you to write the book,

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Speaker 1: and if you would give us a little information about it.

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Speaker 4: I started writing it about two years before publication, and

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Speaker 4: it is about my learning curve, my own personal learning curve, okay,

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Speaker 4: because I was this person working with students and their

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Speaker 4: families and autism, and once my grandson was diagnosed, I

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Speaker 4: started bringing all of that experience and knowledge to my

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Speaker 4: daughter and her husband, and I quickly realized that sometimes

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Speaker 4: new parents don't want.

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Speaker 3: An expert telling them what to do when that expert

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Speaker 3: is your mom.

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Speaker 2: Sure, that's very understandable.

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Speaker 1: Which affected you more being the grandparent of an autistic

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Speaker 1: child or working with autistic children in the school system.

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Speaker 4: That's a great question. I would say that on a

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Speaker 4: deeply personal level. Of course, having a child with autism

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Speaker 4: in the family and understand and how that changes the

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Speaker 4: dynamic of a family really deeply affected me. Though my

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Speaker 4: years as a school administrator and working with kids who

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Speaker 4: have autism, that's my heart's work. I never quite understood

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Speaker 4: the commitment that the families were involved with, because, you know,

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Speaker 4: I go home at the end of the day.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting. I've had teachers that have been on here

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Speaker 1: that later became autistic parents. They thought they were going

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Speaker 1: to be great mothers because they worked with children in

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Speaker 1: the school system that were autistic. Then when real life

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Speaker 1: situations happened and it was after school, that's when the

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Speaker 1: reality set in that this was going to be their

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Speaker 1: daily life from now on. So how did that affect you.

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Speaker 1: You've worked with autistic children in the school system and

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Speaker 1: now you have an autistic grandson. How did that dynamic

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Speaker 1: play out for you?

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, what it was.

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Speaker 4: It was interesting because initially, like when I found out

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Speaker 4: my daughter was pregnant, these expectations of what that was

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Speaker 4: going to look like in terms of my role as

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Speaker 4: a grandmother.

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Speaker 2: Sure, that makes sense.

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Speaker 4: And then once that autism diagnosis happened, and having the

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Speaker 4: knowledge that I do from being in the field, I

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Speaker 4: really understood that I had to shift my expectations. Sure,

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Speaker 4: some of the myths that many grandparents go into this,

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Speaker 4: myths about pauses of autism or hey, if you only

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Speaker 4: had a little bit more discipline in his life, he

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Speaker 4: didn't have to deal with that because my professional life

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Speaker 4: gave me that knowledge as to what's real what's not,

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Speaker 4: and shifting my expectations to better address the needs of

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Speaker 4: not only my grandson, but more importantly and unexpectedly the

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Speaker 4: needs of my daughter and her husband.

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Speaker 1: Where you know and understand autism because you work within

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Speaker 1: the autistic community, how did that relationship work with your daughter?

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Speaker 4: Well, it's interesting because as every parent, I'm like, I

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Speaker 4: raised my kids, raise my own kids, so I'm the

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Speaker 4: expert in child rearing in the family because I raised

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Speaker 4: you adulthood. And then having the professional knowledge, like I

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Speaker 4: considered myself to be sort of the expert on all

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Speaker 4: of this, right, Really quickly I learned that new parents

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Speaker 4: and parents with a new diagnosis particularly, they're the experts, right,

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Speaker 4: They're the experts. They're the ones with the knowledge, they're

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Speaker 4: the ones living it. Yes, and their opinions and their

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Speaker 4: thoughts are so incredibly important, and they're say so is

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Speaker 4: sort of the final word. And accepting that was a

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Speaker 4: big part of that shift.

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Speaker 1: Did you have an emotional part of it that you

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Speaker 1: went through that you really wasn't comfortably saying out loud

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Speaker 1: at the time.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think like all grandparents and all parents, really,

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Speaker 3: you worry. You worry about the future.

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Speaker 4: You worry about the future, and being not a parent

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Speaker 4: but a grandparent, right, worry about the future after I'm gone.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it all works.

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Speaker 4: Out well, grandparents, grandchildren and children will outlive their parents, right,

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Speaker 4: And you know, I worry about his future, my daughter's future,

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Speaker 4: and that the resources are available to support everybody and

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Speaker 4: making sure that support system is in place.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of misconception out there about autism. Many

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Speaker 1: have this perception of what they think autism is, when

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Speaker 1: in reality, it's not even close to what they thought

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Speaker 1: it was. What would you tell grandparents that have this

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Speaker 1: perception of what they think autism is, and then when

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Speaker 1: they find out their perception was totally wrong, what would

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Speaker 1: you give them for advice?

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Speaker 3: I tell them a couple of things.

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Speaker 4: The first thing is, when you've met one person with autism,

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Speaker 4: you've met one person with autism. The second thing is

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Speaker 4: things will change day to day, week to week, hour

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Speaker 4: to hour. And you know things when I see my

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Speaker 4: grands so he might love certain things and he might

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Speaker 4: be doing certain things, and then I meet him again

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Speaker 4: and it might be a completely different situation. And that's okay.

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Speaker 4: Grandparents don't have to show up and be perfect. They

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Speaker 4: just have to show up.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, right, in your experience, what helps people move beyond

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Speaker 1: what they feel is normal. So this way they can

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Speaker 1: open themselves up to something that is completely different and

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Speaker 1: embracing a different reality.

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Speaker 4: Well, you know, there's a shift that I tell grandparents

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Speaker 4: and I tell first responders, and it's keeping in mind

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Speaker 4: that when a child or an individual is struggling, it's

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Speaker 4: not that they are giving anyone a hard time. It's

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Speaker 4: that they are having a hard time and bringing that

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Speaker 4: with you when you go to be with someone who

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Speaker 4: has autism or is neurodiverse. It really changes that conversation.

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Speaker 4: It changes the way you look at the person who

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Speaker 4: might be going through a difficult time. It changes the

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Speaker 4: way you might want to support the family. It turns

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Speaker 4: it from a defensive posture to.

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Speaker 3: One of support.

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Speaker 1: What of the most striking differences you've seen between how

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Speaker 1: older generations and today's generation understand autism and how does

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Speaker 1: it affect their acceptance?

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Speaker 4: Well, like I said, sometimes I hear comments like Gail,

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Speaker 4: she was only a little firmer with him, or if

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Speaker 4: he only you know, sent him to his room, or

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Speaker 4: and it's not the case at all, and understanding that

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Speaker 4: you know, it wasn't because the child had a vaccine,

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Speaker 4: It wasn't because somebody did something or ate something like

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Speaker 4: this is a genetic, neurological condition. There's sometimes other comorbidities involved.

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Speaker 4: And keeping that open mind, like approach everything with curiosity

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Speaker 4: for judgment.

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Speaker 3: Right. I love that saying because it really just sums

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Speaker 3: it up.

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Speaker 1: Now, you mentioned that you work with first responders as well. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I think what you're doing is great. I've had people

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Speaker 1: on here that have been former police and now they

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Speaker 1: have formed companies that go out and train police officers

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Speaker 1: how to interact with autistic individuals in high pressure situations.

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Speaker 1: What are the key mindset shifts you teach first responders

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Speaker 1: to help them recognize that autistic behaviors may look different

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Speaker 1: but aren't necessarily signs of aggression or danger.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, it's funny because that grandparent first responder. Some people

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Speaker 4: are like, how did you connect those two? They're both

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Speaker 4: groups that have so much experience and so much you know,

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Speaker 4: in this case of police officers training, but they come

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Speaker 4: to this without the complete picture. Yeah, And in my trainings,

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Speaker 4: I try to give them the complete picture, and we

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Speaker 4: talk about, you know, someone under the influence might look

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Speaker 4: this way, but somebody who is neurodiverse might have similarities.

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Speaker 4: But the differences and these are how you can tell

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Speaker 4: the difference.

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Speaker 1: Yes, exactly. I had a father tell me about his

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Speaker 1: autistic son. He was walking down the street. He was

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Speaker 1: just a happy guy. He was walking down the street,

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Speaker 1: listen to music, just flapping in his arms. Unfortunately, they

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Speaker 1: thought he was high, so they took him down to

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Speaker 1: the local precinct. As luck would have it, they called

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Speaker 1: the dad. He went down to the precinct, explained to

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Speaker 1: them that he was autistic and everything turned out just fine.

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Speaker 1: How do you tell these first responders, because it's really

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Speaker 1: they've got only seconds sometimes to make a decision on

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Speaker 1: what to do. They've got to make a decision on

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Speaker 1: how to handle this person that's in front of them

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Speaker 1: that maybe having a meltdown, and then in ten or

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Speaker 1: fifteen minutes it'll be fine. But they've got to define

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Speaker 1: that and figure it out and know how to defuse that.

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Speaker 1: So how do you help them learn how to first

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Speaker 1: spot it, then when they spot it, diffuse it. Well.

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Speaker 4: We talk a lot about communication issues, We talk about

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Speaker 4: eye contact, about the fact that this person might not

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Speaker 4: be aggressing towards you in the same way that somebody

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Speaker 4: who is under the influence or somebody who now intent

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Speaker 4: would be. I respect police officers and the fact that

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Speaker 4: they have to make these split second decisions. And I'm

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Speaker 4: not saying that my training is a cure all, but

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Speaker 4: I certainly think that going into a crisis situation with

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Speaker 4: some basic knowledge about what they should be looking for

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Speaker 4: can be very helpful. I think that understanding that you know,

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Speaker 4: police lights, sound sirens, these are the sensory issues that

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Speaker 4: can really exacerbate a situation. I tell them about the

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Speaker 4: Blue envelope program. Are you familiar with it?

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Speaker 1: Yes, I've heard of that. Can you explain it to

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Speaker 1: our listeners?

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Speaker 3: Sure?

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Speaker 4: The blue envelope program is a blue envelope many towns

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Speaker 4: will provide to you. I know in my area here

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Speaker 4: in New Jersey were very involved with the Blue Envelope program.

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Speaker 4: And a person on the spectrum who might be driving

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Speaker 4: a car, we'll keep their insurance papers they're licensed in

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Speaker 4: this blue envelope. And on one side of the envelope it says,

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Speaker 4: if you were pulled over by a police officer, this

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Speaker 4: is what you do, and give some instructions to the person.

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Speaker 4: But then they take the envelope out of their glove box,

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Speaker 4: give it to the police officer, and there may be

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Speaker 4: information about that person, and it indicates that the person

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Speaker 4: has autism, so that the police officer knows, okay, this

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Speaker 4: person has autism and needs a different type of support

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Speaker 4: than I would provide somebody who you know, I was

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Speaker 4: pulling over for speeding, who was aggressing towards me.

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Speaker 1: How long is a typical class for your first responders?

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Speaker 4: Actually, they're pretty customized trainings. I do them online and

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Speaker 4: in person.

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Speaker 2: Oh okay, yeah, yeah, what about in person?

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Speaker 4: In person, they start at ninety minutes. Okay, do half

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Speaker 4: day trainings, full day workshops, and they're really structured around

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Speaker 4: the needs of the community.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I had a former police officer. He was training

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Speaker 1: first responders on how to interact with the autistic community.

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Speaker 1: The captain tried to get him to do it at

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Speaker 1: roll call and he said, no, I won't do anything

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Speaker 1: less than four hours because they have to really learn

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Speaker 1: the differences, and that's something you can't do in a

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Speaker 1: short period of times.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and so those type of trainings might involve some

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Speaker 4: physical de escalation techniques, I involve like a more comprehensive

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Speaker 4: type of program.

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Speaker 2: Sure, but I think.

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Speaker 4: That if you're not providing police officers with that level,

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Speaker 4: providing them with some solid basic knowledge of easy to

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Speaker 4: remember strategies and concepts that they can just take right

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Speaker 4: into the field is important.

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Speaker 3: It's crucial.

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Speaker 1: In the classroom, you'll learn certain things from different autistic

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Speaker 1: kids and how they handle different situations. What have you

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Speaker 1: learned from your grandson, Because everybody can learned something from somebody,

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Speaker 1: So what'spend your learning curve with him?

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Speaker 4: What I have learned astounds me each time, is that

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Speaker 4: living in the moment and not worrying about what tomorrow

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Speaker 4: will bring or what happened to you yesterday, and just

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Speaker 4: living in the moment and doing what makes you happy

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Speaker 4: and finding joy and what makes you happy is something

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Speaker 4: that I've learned.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and now how old is he now? He is

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Speaker 1: eight eight? What age was he diagnosed?

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Speaker 3: He was diagnosed around.

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Speaker 2: Four four Okay, is he verbals?

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Speaker 4: It's astounding because at four five six his verbal capabilities

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Speaker 4: were so, so, very limited, But just recently he has

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Speaker 4: become much more verbal. He's advocating for himself. You know,

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Speaker 4: if he's thirsty, he might ask you for a drink,

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Speaker 4: and he has his talker to support his communication.

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Speaker 2: Right, right, Is that through an iPad? Yes?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I've heard a lot of those, and I've heard

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Speaker 1: they work really well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: You know, not everybody will understand him all the time.

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Speaker 4: We underst stand because we were with them all the time.

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Speaker 4: But if he is out in the community, or even

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Speaker 4: if our my students are out in the community, they

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Speaker 4: will have a device so that if they're ordering a

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Speaker 4: burger at a burger place and the person behind the

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Speaker 4: counter does not understand what they're saying, they can take

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Speaker 4: out their Tucker, and they can choose a button to communicate.

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Speaker 1: Okay, since we're talking about communication, have you learned ways

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Speaker 1: of communicating with your grandson versus the kids that you

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Speaker 1: would have in your classroom.

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Speaker 2: How does that differ for you.

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Speaker 4: That's a really good question, and I think it goes

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Speaker 4: back to that original comment of like one person with autism,

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Speaker 4: they're all so so very different. I think that having

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Speaker 4: my grandson in my life as he is makes me

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Speaker 4: more relaxed around.

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Speaker 3: My students at school.

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Speaker 2: Good good, Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I would say that it makes me more comfortable

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Speaker 4: going in and interacting with them and operating just from

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Speaker 4: a slightly shifted perspective.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, you do a lot of advocacy work. What

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Speaker 2: does that entail?

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Speaker 4: It entails just what I'm doing now, talking about these issues,

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Speaker 4: bringing it into the community. I do keynote speaking, public speaking,

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Speaker 4: I have a website Jennifer Kaufman Speaks, Okay, and I

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Speaker 4: try to get the word out as much as possible.

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Speaker 4: I feel like I'm doing this for my students and

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Speaker 4: I'm doing this for Ben.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: I've been doing this podcast for three years now, and

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Speaker 1: it's amazing the stories that I hear and what people

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Speaker 1: tell me, after hearing so many different voices and experiences,

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Speaker 1: what perspectives have stood out to.

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Speaker 2: You the most.

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Speaker 1: What makes them so impactful for you?

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Speaker 4: You know, I want to give a shout out to

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Speaker 4: one of the other grandparents, my daughter's husband's mother. She

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Speaker 4: does an exceptional job of educating the other family members,

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Speaker 4: particularly all of the cousins, and making sure that the

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Speaker 4: children in the family, no matter what their age, understand

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Speaker 4: that Ben communicates differently, you know, processes information differently. It's

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Speaker 4: just so cool to watch and it's so cool to

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Speaker 4: watch and be supported by his cousins who he will

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Speaker 4: grow up with.

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Speaker 1: When you compare what you see at school with what

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Speaker 1: you experience with your grandson, what are some of the

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Speaker 1: misconceptions that really stand out to you and what do

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Speaker 1: you encounter most often that you wish people would take

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Speaker 1: more time to learn more about.

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Speaker 4: We hear all sorts of things like, because parents are

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Speaker 4: grasping for straws, they're looking for solutions to their problem,

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Speaker 4: you know, not that it's a problem, but they're looking

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Speaker 4: for a solution to help fix their child. Really, autism

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Speaker 4: is a different operating system. It is just as I

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Speaker 4: wouldn't fix my apple computer to make it more like

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Speaker 4: a PC. Accepting it and learning about it and working

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Speaker 4: with in the way that it's meant to be worked

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Speaker 4: with is such a better strategy than looking for the fixes. Now,

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Speaker 4: that's not to say that there are some research based

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Speaker 4: supports that are out there, research based versus you know,

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Speaker 4: somebody said this substance is going to help you just

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Speaker 4: because the intern does. So looking at the research, talking

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Speaker 4: to your doctors, your therapists, and creating well formed opinions

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Speaker 4: before implementing any kind of strategy or support.

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Speaker 3: Is just crucial.

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Speaker 1: How do you feel that your book relates to people

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Speaker 1: versus other books that are just about autism, especially where

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Speaker 1: you're really pushing it towards the grandparents side.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So when I became a grandparent, of course I

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Speaker 4: went to go read the research and to go read

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Speaker 4: whatever literature I could find, and there really wasn't that

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Speaker 4: much coming from the perspective of the professional as well

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Speaker 4: as the grandparent. That is what motivated me to write

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Speaker 4: this book. I hope that it would be a resource,

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Speaker 4: not in a clinical way for grandparents, then more of

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Speaker 4: a sitting down at the coffee table, chatting over a

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Speaker 4: cup of tea and talking about my experiences giving some suggestions.

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Speaker 4: You know, what do we do at holidays? What do

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Speaker 4: we do when the child visits us? What if we

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Speaker 4: live a thousand miles away from each other? There are

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Speaker 4: just some of the topics that I cover.

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Speaker 2: You've got a broader pattern.

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Speaker 1: Now, this's happening because more and more people are finding

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Speaker 1: that autism is growing.

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Speaker 2: I don't believe it's growing.

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Speaker 1: I think it's just we're becoming more aware of it

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Speaker 1: and we're becoming more clinical. So there's a reason why

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Speaker 1: we went from one in one hundred to one and

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Speaker 1: thirty one is because we've gained knowledge. And when you

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Speaker 1: gain knowledge, you are able to see more things and

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Speaker 1: understand them. So what do you feel that connects the

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Speaker 1: grandparents in ways that other grandparents might not connect because

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Speaker 1: they starting to get that liding experience of what autism is.

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Speaker 4: I think that it's funny when I when I do,

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Speaker 4: I might go to a library and speak to a

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Speaker 4: group of grandparents and I find that there are a

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Speaker 4: lot of tears. And it's not tears of sadness as

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Speaker 4: much as they are tears of being heard. Hey, great,

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Speaker 4: we're grandparents. We're all you know grandparents Because our kids

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Speaker 4: had kids, But when it's our kids had kids with autism,

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Speaker 4: you just sort of feel isolated and alone fresh And

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Speaker 4: then I get from talking to people after my workshops,

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Speaker 4: after my talks, is that they don't feel alone anymore.

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Speaker 1: One of the most common things I hear is when

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Speaker 1: a young set of parents have a child, they find

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Speaker 1: out the child is autistic. They are so afraid because

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Speaker 1: it's the big unknown. They don't know what it is.

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Speaker 1: They probably don't have any communication with other autistic parents,

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Speaker 1: and now they're thrust full force into the autistic community.

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Speaker 1: How have you found the grandparents where they're in a

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Speaker 1: very similar situation, Like you said, they feel like they're alone.

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Speaker 1: Have you found that the grandparents feeling that way?

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Speaker 2: Have they mirrored what.

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Speaker 1: Their kids feel or do you feel a different approach

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Speaker 1: from them.

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Speaker 3: I think it's a little of each.

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Speaker 4: I think that some of them will pick up those

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Speaker 4: signals and listen to what their kids are saying and

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Speaker 4: accept it and go with it. But then there are

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Speaker 4: others who might think that they know better or might

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Speaker 4: think that well, I you know, I read this, or

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Speaker 4: my friend told me that, and sometimes the information is

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Speaker 4: not helpful and not accepting the parents, as the authority

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Speaker 4: in the situation, can really put up some walls in

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Speaker 4: terms of communication parents of kids who have autism. They're

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Speaker 4: hearing advice not only from their doctors and from the

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Speaker 4: therapists that the kids have, but also from the grocery

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Speaker 4: store cashier and from the online communities. And they're just

401
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Speaker 4: hearing it advice from everybody. And now here's a grandparent,

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Speaker 4: here's my mom, or here's my dad, And now they're

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Speaker 4: giving me unsolicited advice. And I remember I said unsolicited

404
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Speaker 4: because it's okay to have conversations and provide your thoughts.

405
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Speaker 4: What unsolicited advice and you should and you need to

406
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Speaker 4: really just build walls.

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Speaker 3: And I talk a lot about that in my book.

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Speaker 1: Now, you've been a teacher, you've worked with autistic kids,

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Speaker 1: so you're a little bit different. But I still feel

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Speaker 1: this is a good relative question for you. How is

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Speaker 1: this journey with your grandson now that he's been diagnosed autistic.

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Speaker 1: How has it changed the way that you might have

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Speaker 1: perceived autism? And then how has it changed the way

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Speaker 1: that you see people?

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Speaker 3: Oh?

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Speaker 4: Interesting, So in terms of how I see autism, I

417
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Speaker 4: think it goes back to that twenty four to seven

418
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Speaker 4: type of thing. You know, you hear it's a rough road.

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Speaker 4: And you know, if I have him in my house

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Speaker 4: for three days, I'm literally exhausted in the end of

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Speaker 4: the time because you just don't know what's coming at you.

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Speaker 4: In terms of people, I think it's solidified my belief

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Speaker 4: that there are really good people. There are also people

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Speaker 4: with very closed minds who have a tendency to not

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Speaker 4: be so nice, and we've come across that. I'll tell

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Speaker 4: you I was never more proud of my daughter when

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Speaker 4: I saw a man say something to the table when

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Speaker 4: we were out to lunch because my grandson was loud.

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Speaker 4: He was having some vocalizations, and he came over and

430
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Speaker 4: he said something like that kid needs to be hit

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Speaker 4: or it's something terrible, and he walked away. And at

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Speaker 4: the end of the meal, I watched my daughter so

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Speaker 4: gracefully get up and walk over to his table where

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Speaker 4: he was eating with his wife and say to him,

435
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Speaker 4: we've worked very hard to get ben into a restaurant

436
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Speaker 4: and now we're here and we're enjoying our lunch, and

437
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Speaker 4: you said such a terrible thing. You know think I

438
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Speaker 4: think the parting shot was you have the day you

439
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 4: deserve goodbye. But you know, I speak because I hope

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Speaker 4: that somebody will hear the message and that they'll shift

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Speaker 4: their perspective and the way they see situations when a

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Speaker 4: child might be having a behavior or might be having

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Speaker 4: a vocalization.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So what matters most now.

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Speaker 4: What matters most now is inclusion. Okay, what matters most

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00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 4: now is creating schools, environments, playgrounds, people that will include

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Speaker 4: people who are different.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I love that. Okay. One last question.

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Speaker 1: When your grandchild looks back one day, how do you

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Speaker 1: hope they remember you?

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00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:42,320
Speaker 3: I hope. Well that gets me choked up.

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Speaker 4: I hope they remember me as someone who accepted them

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Speaker 4: for who they were and how much we laughed together.

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Speaker 1: Good, good, Well, this has been great. I really appreciate

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00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:55,960
Speaker 1: you taking the time to come on.

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00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:58,680
Speaker 3: Thank you, Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

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00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, one more thing, give us your contact information

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00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 1: one more time.

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Speaker 3: Sure.

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00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 4: Jennifer Kaufman Speaks is where you can learn more about

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00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 4: my speaking engagements. Maybe I'll be in your area. Grandparenting

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Speaker 4: on the Spectrum dot com is my grandparenting website and

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Speaker 4: First Response Autism dot Com is my first responder please website.

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Speaker 1: Well again, thanks I really appreciate you taking the time.

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Speaker 3: Yep. Absolutely, it was a pleasure speaking with you.

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Speaker 1: Yes, my pleasure as well. Thanks again, hey, sincere. Thank

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Speaker 1: you to our guests for sharing their journey with us today.

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Speaker 1: We appreciate their honesty, courage, and willingness to open their

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Speaker 1: heart in hopes of helping others. If today's conversation helped

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Speaker 1: you see the world a little differently, then we've accomplished

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Speaker 1: exactly what we set out to do. Until next time,

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Speaker 1: keep believing, keep learning, and most importantly, keep asking yourself,

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Speaker 1: why not me?