Speaker 1: Like the world you played to win the game. Jet
Speaker 1: toucksdown your listening to the Official Jets podcast on Jets
Speaker 1: three sixty production every New Year Jets Station. I'm Eric Ellen,
Speaker 1: and we've also got Ethan Greenberg here at Vanderbilt Sports Expiras. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: this is our last show of the two thousand seventeen season,
Speaker 1: but we promised to make it a good one to
Speaker 1: Mario Davis and Josh Martin are here at the Windham
Speaker 1: Hamilton's Park and we'll talk to them over the next hour,
Speaker 1: but we have a lot to get to Green's. First off,
Speaker 1: the Jets clean out there lockers. Monday, Todd Bowls addressed
Speaker 1: the media, and then today in Flora Park, general manager
Speaker 1: Mike mccagnet talked as well as Jets CEO and Chairman
Speaker 1: Christopher Johnson. Starting with Coach Bowls here because he was
Speaker 1: the first one to address the media for the final
Speaker 1: time of the two thousand seventeen regular season. Here is
Speaker 1: that Coach had no more excuses and the Jets finished
Speaker 1: five and eleven seven straight years, that the Jets will
Speaker 1: not be postseason bound. But the narrative moving forward is
Speaker 1: no more excuses, No would have no shadows, no cutives.
Speaker 1: And that's something that Calvin Beacham reiterated in his season
Speaker 1: ending press conference as well. Yeah, and top bowls. I
Speaker 1: asked him about it on a follow up, you know,
Speaker 1: he said, it's not that, guys main excuses this year,
Speaker 1: it's just he wants that mindset going into two thousand
Speaker 1: and eighteen. The external narrative for the New York Jets
Speaker 1: entering the two thousand seventeen season was this is the
Speaker 1: worst roster in football. They're not gonna win a game. Well,
Speaker 1: they came out, they won three of their first five
Speaker 1: five games with three and two with a three game
Speaker 1: winning streak. There were three and two at one point
Speaker 1: during the season, and then there was a point there
Speaker 1: right around to buy when the Jets beat the Buffalo
Speaker 1: Bills and people were talking about potentially this team could
Speaker 1: be a wild card contender. With all that being said, Greens,
Speaker 1: nobody inside the building and we'll talk to Damaro Davis
Speaker 1: and Josh Martin about just this. Nobody inside the building
Speaker 1: was ever bought into what the external narrative was for
Speaker 1: the New York Jets, and they made strides this year.
Speaker 1: The record says five and eleven just like two thousand
Speaker 1: and sixteen, this team had an incredibly different feel to
Speaker 1: it in the locker room in New England when the
Speaker 1: season came to a conclusion, I would say polar opposites.
Speaker 1: And not only that, you talked about the external narrative, Well,
Speaker 1: the internal narrative throughout the course of the season was
Speaker 1: we're gonna stay together, We're gonna fight through adversity. And
Speaker 1: in each and every game except maybe the Broncos game,
Speaker 1: you could sense that this team was in every game
Speaker 1: and that's really what you want to see. And I
Speaker 1: know you spoke to Mike mccagnet earlier earlier today, he said,
Speaker 1: we don't find solace and stuff like that. But if
Speaker 1: you're a fan, you have to be someone excited to
Speaker 1: at least see the progress that this team is based.
Speaker 1: The foundation, the foundation of the team that's being created
Speaker 1: as you move forward now into two thousand eighteen inside
Speaker 1: the Jets is supported by selective insurance responses. Everything. Now,
Speaker 1: how are the New York Jets going to respond to
Speaker 1: the off season. They will have plenty of salary cap space.
Speaker 1: It's an estimated right now anywhere between eighty million and
Speaker 1: a hundred million dollars to spend. So Mike mcagnan was
Speaker 1: asked about it today, he made it clear the Jets
Speaker 1: will be very active in free agency. That's something that
Speaker 1: Christopher Johnson said as well. And the only thing that
Speaker 1: he said is, all right, so even though you have
Speaker 1: all this money, we're not gonna go spend it in
Speaker 1: one area or two areas because that's not what he
Speaker 1: wants to do. And if you look at last season's
Speaker 1: off season recipe, I understand the financial situation is a
Speaker 1: little different this season. But Mike mccagnet went out there
Speaker 1: and he made a selective signings when you look at
Speaker 1: someone like Calvin Beecham who he brought in from Jacksonville
Speaker 1: and Morris Clayborne along those lines. So he was selective
Speaker 1: with the pieces that he brought in. But they were
Speaker 1: very productive this season. Okay, So ideally, he continues to say,
Speaker 1: the vision here for Mike mccagnan, Todd Bowls, and Christopher
Speaker 1: Johnson is you want to build through the draft. So
Speaker 1: what happened in two thousand seventeen was the Jets added
Speaker 1: a safety out of ls you in the first round,
Speaker 1: a guy by the name of Jamal Adams. They took
Speaker 1: a safety in the second round, Marcus May. They also
Speaker 1: grabbed other pieces along the way. Mccagnan, you're starting to
Speaker 1: see the vision come together. I talked about it last
Speaker 1: week on Inside the Jets. The layers of the defense
Speaker 1: right now are guys that he drafted. Okay, Leonard Williams,
Speaker 1: first draft pick of mcagnan, number six overall defensive lineman,
Speaker 1: one of the better interior defensive lineman in the National
Speaker 1: Football League. Darren Lee took strides in year two. He
Speaker 1: was a first round pick number twenty over wrong in
Speaker 1: two thousand sixteen. Then he comes back and addresses the
Speaker 1: defensive backfield two thousand seventeen with the selection of Jamal Adams.
Speaker 1: You could have made the argument after both in two
Speaker 1: thousand fifteen and two thousand seventeen drafts that Leonard Williams
Speaker 1: and Jamal Adams were the cleanest prospects in each of
Speaker 1: those drafts. And then you think about other guys who
Speaker 1: have made productors, who have made contributions along the way.
Speaker 1: Coming at George Jenkins, the third round pick out of Georgia.
Speaker 1: So you're seeing a lot of youthful infusion on the
Speaker 1: defensive side of the ball. We're gonna talk to Damario Davis,
Speaker 1: the guy that Mike mccagnet trafted, traded for in the
Speaker 1: off season. Josh Martin is a guy who I think
Speaker 1: he is symbolic of people you have to have on
Speaker 1: your roster that you develop internally. He started on the
Speaker 1: practice squad in two thousand fifteen and he was a
Speaker 1: special teams creature here and now this year he led
Speaker 1: the Jets defensively in terms of tackles for loss. So
Speaker 1: you have to attack each in every avenue as far
Speaker 1: as yes, the draft, but you have to add in
Speaker 1: free agency and you have to end in um via
Speaker 1: trades as well, and mckagnan has done that. And hey,
Speaker 1: you gotta go to the other side of the ball.
Speaker 1: You think about Robbie Anderson undrafted free agent. How about
Speaker 1: your main Cursey came over in a trade from the
Speaker 1: Seattle Seahawks, and the Jets got tremendous value there because
Speaker 1: not only did they get Curse, they have a second
Speaker 1: round selection in the two thousand seventeen NFL draft and all,
Speaker 1: by the way, the Jets have three picks in the
Speaker 1: top forty nine selections overall. So you know, I went
Speaker 1: off I was gonna say, it's okay to take take
Speaker 1: a deep breath there. But something that I want to
Speaker 1: say is mccagnan has always said that this is gonna
Speaker 1: be his vision, always leads through the draft, and he
Speaker 1: said this to you, is that it's augmented through the
Speaker 1: other channels like a trade, like pro free agency. But
Speaker 1: the thing is is that the draft is where you
Speaker 1: get the most youthful players, obviously, because these guys are
Speaker 1: college jun years and college seniors trying to make a
Speaker 1: name in the NFL. And you mentioned some of the
Speaker 1: guys like Jordan Jenkins and Robby Anderson in the later rounds,
Speaker 1: not your first and second round. Bobby wasn't drafted. So
Speaker 1: you get three through let's say seven, and then you're
Speaker 1: undrafted guys right there. And a lot of the guys
Speaker 1: that Mike has drafted have played for this team and
Speaker 1: gotten invaluable experience, especially this season. Look at a guy
Speaker 1: like Brandon Shell, second year right tackle, started i'd say
Speaker 1: the final four or so games of his rookie season
Speaker 1: and then played in the majority of games this season
Speaker 1: and did a pretty solid job. And he was going
Speaker 1: up against guys like Von Miller, Khalil mac justin Houston.
Speaker 1: I mean the list goes on and on. So the
Speaker 1: experience that he's getting this year again to create that
Speaker 1: foundation moving forward is gonna be key for this team
Speaker 1: in nineteen as you continue to move down here. So
Speaker 1: they're multiple layers on creating a team. I think we've
Speaker 1: seen that you touched on it when you look at trades,
Speaker 1: free agency, the draft, college free agency. So right now,
Speaker 1: the first item number one is gonna be free agency
Speaker 1: because that's first on the document. March. Yeah, inside the
Speaker 1: Jets is supported by Victoria Knox, Swiss Army um yeah,
Speaker 1: and a guy who's been a Swiss Army knife for
Speaker 1: the Jets Josh Martin will join us in a few moments,
Speaker 1: and also Damarrio Davis inside the building. How about that
Speaker 1: trade in June as mcagnan acquires Tamario Davis, who had
Speaker 1: a career high in terms of tackles, also had to
Speaker 1: lead the Jets in terms of sex with five. It
Speaker 1: was a one for one, a player for player swap
Speaker 1: for Covin prior how about another player for players swap in?
Speaker 1: Maybe not as flashy, but right before the fourth preseason game,
Speaker 1: Dexter McDougall was traded to the Philadelphia Eagles for Terence Brooks,
Speaker 1: who had a pretty good year on special teams. And
Speaker 1: not only that, he was the a f C Defensive
Speaker 1: Player of the Weekend the Week three against It All Fens,
Speaker 1: he notched two interceptions at MetLife Stadium. So I think
Speaker 1: a trade is kind of a lost art these days
Speaker 1: because you look at free agency, look at the draft.
Speaker 1: That's what's flashy. But then you're talking about trades, and
Speaker 1: Mike mccagnet is not shy about trading. But you let's
Speaker 1: talk about the Demario trade because that's what you brought up.
Speaker 1: When you look at the return. I know this is
Speaker 1: maybe a little financial, especially for me, but when you
Speaker 1: look at the return for what you gave up, Calvin
Speaker 1: Prior is out in the league right now and listen
Speaker 1: and tomorrow. Davis was one of the leaders on this
Speaker 1: defense career year for Demario Davis here for the New
Speaker 1: York Jets. And uh, you know one thing I took
Speaker 1: away from Christopher Johnson, the Jets CEO. Today's said, I
Speaker 1: got the best gig in the world. He's really loved. Uh.
Speaker 1: Taking over the reins from his brother Woody, who was
Speaker 1: serving the United states over in Great Britain right now.
Speaker 1: But Christopher said, you know what, I talked to a
Speaker 1: lot of players exit interview. The guys each pointed to
Speaker 1: something special is happening here with the Jets, and Christopher
Speaker 1: has a great bond with this team. And the other
Speaker 1: thing is Christopher Johnson had a message for the fan
Speaker 1: base today. He said, I know you've experienced a lot
Speaker 1: of pain of late. The Jets have not made the
Speaker 1: playoffs in seven seasons. He said, you deserve glory and
Speaker 1: I think we're well on our way to return to
Speaker 1: proper glories. And that's the kind of thing you want
Speaker 1: to hear from a fan, from from your owner, and
Speaker 1: not mean that, not a fan from your owner. Not
Speaker 1: only that, but Christopher Johnson said that he's seeing something
Speaker 1: special starting to form here and that's not only a
Speaker 1: message from him, that's a message that he received from
Speaker 1: multiple people inside the building, including the players. So he
Speaker 1: said that he met with almost everyone on their way
Speaker 1: out after they cleaned their lockers, and that he has
Speaker 1: a good feeling about moving forward and he wanted to
Speaker 1: have a sense of stability, which is why he ended
Speaker 1: the contracts of both head coach Todd Bowls and general
Speaker 1: manager Mike mccagnet, But he said that he knew he
Speaker 1: was going to do that early on in the season
Speaker 1: and even though it didn't come to fruition until right
Speaker 1: before the Jets went to Foxboro this weekend. Well, I
Speaker 1: gotta think that probably happened for Christopher Johnson when he
Speaker 1: saw the Jets takedown Miami Dolphins for the first win
Speaker 1: in the season. Or you know what really jumped out
Speaker 1: to me early in the year was the game against Jacksonville. Yes,
Speaker 1: they squandered a fourth quarter lead, but they also recovered
Speaker 1: from that kind of a microcosm in this season. They
Speaker 1: handled adversity the one that game and overtime. They also
Speaker 1: ran for over two hundred yards against one of the
Speaker 1: finer defenses in the National Football League Jackson Bell Team
Speaker 1: who's will see next year. But uh, the Jets put
Speaker 1: together a complete performance there against the Jaguars. I thought
Speaker 1: that was one of their finest performances of the two
Speaker 1: thousand seventeen season. The other game that really resonates with
Speaker 1: me was Buffalo Thursday night, a complete performance on both
Speaker 1: sides of the football. I want to add one game
Speaker 1: in the mix here is the Kansas City game is
Speaker 1: because I think it has a lot of parallels to
Speaker 1: Week four in Jacksonville. Just happened later in the season
Speaker 1: because against the Jaguars you kind of saw, you saw
Speaker 1: a lead, you saw a great football and then even though,
Speaker 1: like you said, a fourth quarter lead was squandered, you're
Speaker 1: still able to fight through adversity and come out with
Speaker 1: a win. The Chiefs game was similar to me because
Speaker 1: it's back and forth and back and forth, and all
Speaker 1: cylinders are clicking and you're finally able to get over
Speaker 1: that hump. And for much of the season all we
Speaker 1: heard was the narrative about finishing, and in that game,
Speaker 1: the Jets finished, and I think that you saw it
Speaker 1: in Week four and Week nine against the Bills that
Speaker 1: was a complete dominating perform, completely dominant. Yeah, it's a
Speaker 1: different field, but I understand the feeling, the sense of
Speaker 1: what you're saying as to if you're Christopher Johnson, why
Speaker 1: you get excited about the team moving forward and continuity
Speaker 1: stability is very important in the National Football League. You
Speaker 1: don't don't want to take a step forward and then
Speaker 1: take two steps back. And what this allows you to
Speaker 1: do right now with Todd Bowls, and Mike mccagnan, as
Speaker 1: you're sending a message inside the locker room that I've
Speaker 1: confidence in these guys moving forward. We took some steps.
Speaker 1: Yes we did not see it in the victory total increasing,
Speaker 1: but we're changing the culture here. We're getting younger, we're
Speaker 1: building through the draft, we're developing chemistry, we're getting pieces
Speaker 1: along the way, and the future is bright for the Jets.
Speaker 1: But Christopher also said, hey, listen, this can't happen soon
Speaker 1: enough for us. I want to go to the playoffs
Speaker 1: right now. I want to go to the Super Bowl
Speaker 1: right now. But the thing that Christopher Johnson, Mike mccagnan,
Speaker 1: and Todd Bowls no, is you can't go at this
Speaker 1: with a quick, fixed approach. You really want to become
Speaker 1: a sustainable winner in the National Football League, and with
Speaker 1: that you have to take a patient approach. You have
Speaker 1: to hit in the draft, you have to add complimentary
Speaker 1: pieces in free agency, and occasionally you gotta land guys
Speaker 1: like the Mario Davis in a draft or in a trade,
Speaker 1: or a Germain Curse in a trade. And there's and
Speaker 1: you have to develop guys internally, like a Robbie Anderson
Speaker 1: or a role player like Josh martin Um comes along
Speaker 1: and he starts playing for you on a regular basis
Speaker 1: on the defensive side of football. So I think the
Speaker 1: Jets are doing a good job right now. I think
Speaker 1: there's plenty of reason for optimism. I understand from a
Speaker 1: fan perspective as you look at the Buffalo Bills right
Speaker 1: now and say why not us, and I say, well,
Speaker 1: maybe it is you next year, maybe it is you
Speaker 1: in two thousand and eighteen. I don't think when you
Speaker 1: look at the Jets roster and you look at Buffalo
Speaker 1: Bill's roster or a couple of those other teams like
Speaker 1: the Tennessee Titans, I don't think there is this giant
Speaker 1: talent discrepancy Greens. I don't think so at all. And
Speaker 1: for what it's worth, I think the Jets are headed
Speaker 1: in a very good direction. And I know that's all
Speaker 1: we've heard, but I also understand the fans frustration. But
Speaker 1: to your point is it's not a quick fix, because
Speaker 1: if you're going for a quick fix, there's probably a
Speaker 1: higher chance that it falls. And I think what we've
Speaker 1: seen in the past two seasons is when you look
Speaker 1: at the regime of maccagnet and Bowls and twenty six
Speaker 1: totally different than twenty seventeen and moving forward because last
Speaker 1: year kind of you kind of felt the reset fund
Speaker 1: because of all the guys that left in the end,
Speaker 1: and this team is so young, gained so much experience,
Speaker 1: and you're talking about the guys that you drafted finally
Speaker 1: get in field time, they see the field, and then
Speaker 1: you augment it with the trades that you mentioned and
Speaker 1: free agency, and then you keep building through the draft. Well, remember,
Speaker 1: like you said, to reiterate this point is the Jets
Speaker 1: have three top fifty picks and this year's draft. And
Speaker 1: the more young you get, the more players, the better
Speaker 1: talent you get, the more the higher probability that probability
Speaker 1: there is for long term sustainability. Yeah, and we're gonna
Speaker 1: talk about this later. We're gonna talk about this later
Speaker 1: here on inside the Jets. But one of the major
Speaker 1: questions for the Jets heading in this offseason is the
Speaker 1: quarterback position. Josh McCown came in here, he had a
Speaker 1: career year. Mccagnan signed him a free agency and he
Speaker 1: in his fifteenth NFL season with his tent NFL team,
Speaker 1: He completed sixty seven percent of his passes he masked
Speaker 1: twenty three touchdowns in all. He was a leader inside
Speaker 1: the locker room, and he did a lot of great
Speaker 1: things for this team. In thirteen Stars, Brayce Petty made
Speaker 1: three starts down the stretch. Christian Hackerberg did not see
Speaker 1: the field in regular season action. Now, mccagnan was asked
Speaker 1: about will you bring Josh McCown back today, and he said,
Speaker 1: this is something we're gonna consider. Josh has to make
Speaker 1: considerations himself, to talk to his family, see where he's
Speaker 1: comfortable with. And the Jets are gonna explore every position
Speaker 1: as far as adding competition. So the quarterback position, you
Speaker 1: will look at pro free agency, you're gonna look at
Speaker 1: the draft. And mcagnan said he would not dismiss the
Speaker 1: notion of adding a quarterback in free agency and or
Speaker 1: the draft. My thing is that it's January second, okay,
Speaker 1: and free agency doesn't start till March. And I understand
Speaker 1: teams have the opportunity to resign their players between now
Speaker 1: and March. But you know, if you're a fan, you
Speaker 1: gotta take a deep breath just for a moment, because
Speaker 1: there are a lot of options on the tables and
Speaker 1: this the season just ended two days ago, So I'm
Speaker 1: ready for I'm ready for Toad. But it's not March yet,
Speaker 1: that's the thing. It's January second. But when you look
Speaker 1: at the quarterback landscape, there are options. They're always gonna
Speaker 1: be options when you look at free agency, when you
Speaker 1: look at the draft, there are plenty of options. And
Speaker 1: I know you want to talk about this later, so
Speaker 1: I'll bite my tongue for now and I'll consider that
Speaker 1: it's ease. But but but the thing is that the
Speaker 1: camp space jumps out at you because you can address
Speaker 1: a number of different positions. But with that being said,
Speaker 1: you're not gonna get a pro bowler everywhere. You have
Speaker 1: to establish depth in the National Football League. Well, we
Speaker 1: watch these teams in the playoffs. Now you see the
Speaker 1: best teams in the National Football League. Yes, they have
Speaker 1: a marquee quarterback in most cases, but they also have
Speaker 1: depth down the roster. They have guys who can come in.
Speaker 1: Because not at every position you're gonna have somebody who
Speaker 1: is starting sixteen games or is considered an elite player
Speaker 1: at their position. The Jets are gonna have to address
Speaker 1: a number of holes in off season. And the other
Speaker 1: thing is they're gonna have to look internally at their
Speaker 1: own free agents. Uh, we're gonna talk to one who
Speaker 1: has an expiring contract in Tomoro Davis, who at the
Speaker 1: hell of season, a Morris Clayborne, who I thought had
Speaker 1: his best season in the National Football League. We had
Speaker 1: him on inside the Jets a couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 1: He said, this is the best I've played in the
Speaker 1: NFL so far. That's a former number six overall pick
Speaker 1: out of LSU who went to the Dallas Cowboys, Austin
Speaker 1: Safarian Jack And how many times have we talked about him?
Speaker 1: That's a waiver claim that mcagnan picked up from Tampa
Speaker 1: in two thousand sixteen. He made so many strides and
Speaker 1: not only as a player, but as a man. He
Speaker 1: had a career year this season for the Jets, and
Speaker 1: that's a that is a position that will be in
Speaker 1: demand on the free agent market. So the Jets have
Speaker 1: to look at him, and then obviously Josh McCown as well,
Speaker 1: and there are other guys down that list. So right now,
Speaker 1: what the Jets are doing at their Atlantic Health Jets
Speaker 1: Training Center is they're having pro free agency meetings. And
Speaker 1: that's what mcagnan said. Right now, We're looking at everything,
Speaker 1: and that includes your own guys. You do a self
Speaker 1: scout and then you put up a pro free agency
Speaker 1: board and say, well, hey, is this guy gonna be
Speaker 1: a good fit? Here is the talent of match? Is
Speaker 1: the chemistry match? Because Todd Bowl said it, record wise,
Speaker 1: we are far away at five and eleven. Chemistry wise,
Speaker 1: we are right now. Something that I thought it was
Speaker 1: very very interesting when Mike spoke today, he said, when
Speaker 1: we look at free agents, we we don't necessarily just
Speaker 1: look at the people on the field. We look at
Speaker 1: the person off the field. And when you look at
Speaker 1: someone like Josh, he said, we did a deep, deep
Speaker 1: dive on Josh McCown the person, which is they knew
Speaker 1: who they were getting when he walked in the building.
Speaker 1: And he said, obviously they had high expectations for him,
Speaker 1: but he even exceeded those expectations to a degree. So
Speaker 1: to me is this process is very exciting because it's unpredictable,
Speaker 1: more so than anything else. And if you're a Jets fan,
Speaker 1: you have to be very excited because of what you said.
Speaker 1: The financial flexibility allows Mike mccagnan and the rest of
Speaker 1: his team to go in a number of different directions.
Speaker 1: It's just a question of where do you spend that money,
Speaker 1: who do you spend it on, and how do you
Speaker 1: go about your free agency process compared to the draft
Speaker 1: and trades and everything along that nature. But it's an
Speaker 1: exciting time, especially for Jets fans. Right all right, we
Speaker 1: are live here at Vannabelle Sports and Spirits inside and
Speaker 1: Windham Hamilton's Park Hotel. Eric Allen and Ethan Greenberg, let's
Speaker 1: come right back with linebacker Damario Davis. Back to inside
Speaker 1: the Jazzerak Ellen and Ethan Greenberg here at Vannabelle Sports
Speaker 1: and Spirits Inside and Windham Hamilton's Park. Our Player guest
Speaker 1: segment is presented by mt Bank, the official community bank
Speaker 1: of your New York Jets. Greens is so excited about
Speaker 1: free ancy tomorrow that we went long in that first segment.
Speaker 1: So without further ado, you're finally up here, Tomorroo Davis.
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us. Thank you guys for having me tomorrow.
Speaker 1: What was it like coming back here to the team
Speaker 1: you were drafted by in June and then experienced the
Speaker 1: scene experiencing this season? Um, it was just amazing. Um.
Speaker 1: I think it was sort of a blissing to be
Speaker 1: able to come back to the team that you know,
Speaker 1: you get you got drafted too, and you know every
Speaker 1: players dream is to build their legacy in the place
Speaker 1: that they got drafted to. And so, um, you know,
Speaker 1: to kind of go away, which was a great experience.
Speaker 1: You know, I learned and I grew while I was away.
Speaker 1: But to be able to come back and then to
Speaker 1: realize how rare that is that it happens, um, and
Speaker 1: then be able to you know, come back and be
Speaker 1: implemented back into the system, you know, and uh, why
Speaker 1: did it work so well for you? I'm looking at
Speaker 1: your stats right now. I was adding it up today.
Speaker 1: A hundred sixty five tackles you the loving tackles in
Speaker 1: New England, two tackles for loss and five sacks this
Speaker 1: here as well, pretty good numbers. Appreciate it. Appreciate it.
Speaker 1: What are you asking how? I just call it favor
Speaker 1: a favor from Um. I learned a lot while I
Speaker 1: learned a lot while I was gone. Um, it was
Speaker 1: a very humbling experience. I call it my Jesus in
Speaker 1: the Wilderness moment. And um, yeah, man, you know, in
Speaker 1: in the toughest, in the toughest darkest places you learn
Speaker 1: you grow the most. And so I was putting you know, uh,
Speaker 1: the most stressful situation you could be put in and
Speaker 1: under and I made it through when um, I came
Speaker 1: out the other end stronger. And so when I came back,
Speaker 1: when I came back to the Jets, you know, I was,
Speaker 1: I was ready for it. You know, I told I
Speaker 1: told coach when he you know, um, when Dave was
Speaker 1: released and he told me he was gonna make me
Speaker 1: the middle linebacker. You know, I looked at him confidently
Speaker 1: said I'm ready. And so, uh it was. I didn't
Speaker 1: know it was, you know what that season was going
Speaker 1: to entail, but you know it was a blessing. When
Speaker 1: you first came back and you spoke to the media
Speaker 1: for the first time. I remember you telling me and
Speaker 1: everyone else that was there, Hey, I'm I'm coming back.
Speaker 1: I'm a different player than what you may remember me
Speaker 1: to be. So when you look at the stats that e.
Speaker 1: A Just mentioned, what's something to you that you're most
Speaker 1: proud of? I think I'm I think I'm happy, um
Speaker 1: that the recognition is happening. You know, I put I
Speaker 1: put the work into my craft. You know, ever since
Speaker 1: I came in, but the recognition is finally happening to
Speaker 1: have my name in the conversation with you know, the
Speaker 1: top linebackers around the league usually got more Pro Bowl consideration.
Speaker 1: I'm not just saying that because if you've been here,
Speaker 1: it's something. Part Scott and I look at the game
Speaker 1: film every week, and part knows the position a little
Speaker 1: bit more than I tell and you played with them,
Speaker 1: and he's also a heard greater and he said you
Speaker 1: were one of the bettermental linebackers. Not a fella this year.
Speaker 1: Boy's gonna be a little biased because he mentored me,
Speaker 1: so uh, everything that I do kind of makes him
Speaker 1: look good because he was he kind of mentored me
Speaker 1: and and still does. But um, you know, it was
Speaker 1: just amazing, you know, all the work that I put
Speaker 1: in the off season. You know, I had to grade
Speaker 1: myself hard, harshly, you know, and so and stop saying,
Speaker 1: you know, it's unfair that they're not giving me the
Speaker 1: respect I deserve and look at and say why aren't they?
Speaker 1: And it was a lot of it was a lot
Speaker 1: of flaws in my game. I had to look at
Speaker 1: it and I had to critique myself harshly, and that
Speaker 1: was hard to do, um, But when I really looked
Speaker 1: at it and found out, Okay, these areas I can improve,
Speaker 1: I got really excited and I started to train specifically
Speaker 1: in that, in that them and and in that mindset,
Speaker 1: you know, I tore down everything that I did, you know, previously,
Speaker 1: and I designed my own workout regiment, I designed my
Speaker 1: own diet, and I designed um my own sleep schedule
Speaker 1: based on what I needed to make those things happen.
Speaker 1: And so UM, I took that approach all the way
Speaker 1: through the off season into O T A S, into
Speaker 1: training camp, into preseason and into the season. And I
Speaker 1: never did look at like the stats, you know, I
Speaker 1: never looked at that like that was my goal. My
Speaker 1: goal was just to be the best player that I
Speaker 1: could be. And you know, to look up and see
Speaker 1: all this fruit, you know coming from it, you know,
Speaker 1: it's amazing and it's a blessing. And the guy's gravitated
Speaker 1: towards you inside the locker room tomorrow now is we're
Speaker 1: sitting here at January second, in March, you have an
Speaker 1: expiring contract. So what goes on as far as you
Speaker 1: just having an accident and view and having conversations and
Speaker 1: you know, is it unsettling or is this an exciting
Speaker 1: time for a player? At this point, it's an exciting
Speaker 1: time for me. It's very exciting. Uh. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: I feel like I've done everything I can do, and
Speaker 1: so at this point, you know, it really comes down
Speaker 1: to um, the owner of the gym and the coaching
Speaker 1: staff and what they want and what they envisioned, you know,
Speaker 1: and we have a great organization, and UM, you know,
Speaker 1: I trust those guys, and you know, I have a
Speaker 1: good conversation with all of them. All my thoughts was positive,
Speaker 1: and so I trust their playing going forward. And so UM,
Speaker 1: you know, everything that happens at this time of year
Speaker 1: is really more business and not football, you know, and
Speaker 1: it's it's it's the ugly part of the business. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, it's pretty, it's pretty when you're sitting in
Speaker 1: the leverage seat, but it's it's it's really the ugly
Speaker 1: part of the business. And so UM, it's really up
Speaker 1: on them and what they want to do going forward.
Speaker 1: But so I just to take this time just to
Speaker 1: enjoy my family and relax and UM get my body
Speaker 1: back and then I'll start training again. The third round
Speaker 1: pick out of Arkansas State two thousand and twelve. Tomorrow,
Speaker 1: Davis rejoined the Jets this offseason, had a tremendous yeer
Speaker 1: in green and white. You're a veteran, You've seen a
Speaker 1: lot in this league. You came from Cleveland, a team
Speaker 1: that has seen a share struggles. You only won five
Speaker 1: games this year. But what's building right here? Because we
Speaker 1: talked about an opening segment to a man, including CEO
Speaker 1: Christopher Johnson, g M, Mike mcagnan, the head coach, Todd Bowles,
Speaker 1: everybody's very positive about, uh, the chemistry and also the
Speaker 1: accountability and also the talent that is starting to build. UM.
Speaker 1: I think I think the Jets in a unique place,
Speaker 1: UM because a couple of things, for a couple of reasons,
Speaker 1: is because a couple of things that the hardest to
Speaker 1: build is um unity in the entire organization where everybody
Speaker 1: from top to bottom is on the same page. And
Speaker 1: I think we have that um with with with Chris,
Speaker 1: Mike and Todd. I honestly feel like they're on the
Speaker 1: same page. And UM, that doesn't always happen. It's very rare.
Speaker 1: And then you know, having character and chemis street inside
Speaker 1: the locker room. You know, I love going to work
Speaker 1: every day because um, it's honestly, it's like a family
Speaker 1: in the locker room. You know, the good times the
Speaker 1: bad time, we all stayed together. You know, it's like
Speaker 1: a brotherhood and and all of us, um, we don't
Speaker 1: all think alike, but we're all on the same page
Speaker 1: and kind of see it together. And and that's unique.
Speaker 1: That doesn't happen all the time. And when you can
Speaker 1: have that, you know, Um, when and you go through
Speaker 1: the hard times like um or five and eleven season,
Speaker 1: you know, it makes the easy times even better. And
Speaker 1: so UM, great group of guys with great character, great core. Um,
Speaker 1: I think you know, the organization is gonna help push
Speaker 1: us in the right direction and bring it in the
Speaker 1: right pieces. And um, you know everything is set up,
Speaker 1: Everything is set up with a great foundation to go forward.
Speaker 1: And so if everything stays the way it is now,
Speaker 1: I think it's all on the up and up time
Speaker 1: times on the horizon. For you. We thank you so
Speaker 1: much for joining us on inside the Jets, and we
Speaker 1: wish you luck and we hope to be speaking soon. Hey,
Speaker 1: thank you guys, God blessed. We'll come right back with
Speaker 1: Josh Martin. Welcome back to Inside the Jets. Sarah kell
Speaker 1: And and Ethan Greenberg live here from Vanderbilt Sports and
Speaker 1: Spirits inside to Windham Hamilton's Park Hotel in Florida Park,
Speaker 1: New Jersey. We're now joined by Josh Martin. Our player
Speaker 1: guest segment is presented by M ANDT Bank, the official
Speaker 1: community bank of your New York Jets. Josh, we were
Speaker 1: just talking about it before we came on air. You
Speaker 1: are a world traveler. What did you do last offseason
Speaker 1: and what are your plans this offseason? All the last offseason,
Speaker 1: me and my girlfriend traveled to Asia. We started in Tokyo,
Speaker 1: worked our way down the eastern side of Asia, Shanghai,
Speaker 1: Hong Kong, Bangkok. If you hollands in Thailand, how to bless?
Speaker 1: And what about this offseason? This offseason, we're going to
Speaker 1: South America. We're gonna hit up Argentina and had a
Speaker 1: going you down there and you are you are an
Speaker 1: adventurous guy because you old us one way ticket. You
Speaker 1: go down there and then see where it takes exactly. Um,
Speaker 1: we'll figure it out along the way. So what were
Speaker 1: some of your highlights of your trip to Asia last year?
Speaker 1: The biggest highlight was probably this beach called Monkey Beach, right,
Speaker 1: and so you you go up to this beach and
Speaker 1: this this was a tour. I said, we didn't go
Speaker 1: on tours, but we had the charter. You know, we
Speaker 1: go with the group on this boat to this beach.
Speaker 1: And we arrived to the beach and you know, they
Speaker 1: says Monkey beach. But there are no monkeys when we
Speaker 1: showed up, right, I guess it was early. They're still
Speaker 1: sleeping or whatever. And uh, we're playing in the water, swimming,
Speaker 1: chasing fish, whatever, and all of a sudden you see,
Speaker 1: well you hear the monkeys first, and then you can
Speaker 1: see this parade of monkeys, thirty forty monkeys, uh, walking
Speaker 1: along the beach. And as the day went on, people
Speaker 1: were kayaking to the different beaches around the island and they,
Speaker 1: you know, dr kayaks on on the beach and uh,
Speaker 1: the monkeys were going through their things. Oh yeah, they
Speaker 1: were not intimidated. But here they didn't care how big
Speaker 1: Josh Mark was. No, they didn't care. I was more
Speaker 1: concerned about them than they were about me. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: I want to know is how do you decide where
Speaker 1: to go? Do you have like a bucket list that
Speaker 1: you made or you just kind of close your eyes
Speaker 1: and pen somewhere. I have an idea where I want
Speaker 1: to go, and then just talk it over with my
Speaker 1: girlfriend and she does a lot of research and we
Speaker 1: just do everything that looks interesting to us. But what's
Speaker 1: on the horizon the specifics of this trip. Uh so Argentina.
Speaker 1: We're gonna go down to Patagonia and see the psykes,
Speaker 1: all the wildlife, eat some good food, maybe hit up
Speaker 1: the wine country, find a good malbec and what And
Speaker 1: how can people follow you? Because I know you posted
Speaker 1: some stuff on Instagram last year and didn't why don't
Speaker 1: you throw that out there because I have a few ideas,
Speaker 1: So you can follow me on Instagram at Josh Martin
Speaker 1: Twitter as well, and uh I'll post plenty of picks,
Speaker 1: you know, my website, trying to get a video vlog
Speaker 1: going to my travels this offseason to you know, share
Speaker 1: with the fans. And how about some Instagram stories as well?
Speaker 1: Some Instagram stories of course, yeah, tos those in there too.
Speaker 1: Are you are you gonna film with a GoPro or
Speaker 1: a camera or just your phone? Yeah? Phone, I got it.
Speaker 1: I got a great secrets and a gift from David
Speaker 1: Bass a little uh camera. Okay, well not like a
Speaker 1: selfie stick, but I want to hold your phone and
Speaker 1: record out so secret Santa. Was that just an outside
Speaker 1: linebacker thing? Or was everybody on the team involved in this?
Speaker 1: It's a usually position group by position group. Um. And
Speaker 1: then who did you have to get a present? I
Speaker 1: had Freddie Bishop? What do you get Freddy? I got
Speaker 1: him a camera. He told me that he was going
Speaker 1: to do some traveling and he needed, you know, something
Speaker 1: to take pictures with. So came, did you cheat it? Though? Right?
Speaker 1: I didn't ask him specifically. We've been around a circle,
Speaker 1: you know, we're at lunch, and everyone just said something
Speaker 1: that they'd be interested in. Where's Freddie? Where's Freddie going?
Speaker 1: Not to Canada because he played there already, landscape, I
Speaker 1: think Freddie might be headed down to South America to
Speaker 1: for the alright, so the Jets outside linebackers are really
Speaker 1: on the move. In the two thousand and seventeen off season.
Speaker 1: How about you this year? How different did it feel?
Speaker 1: I mean, you've been in the league for a few
Speaker 1: years now, but you became a defensive regular for the
Speaker 1: first time in your career. It was great. Yeah, No,
Speaker 1: I enjoyed it. You know, as an undrafted guy, you
Speaker 1: understand that you have to work your way through the rinks.
Speaker 1: You know, find yourself in a good situation. And when
Speaker 1: you're in that good situation, you just have to take
Speaker 1: advantage of the opportunity. And I, uh, we're excited to
Speaker 1: get that chance this year. How fun was it to
Speaker 1: work with Kevin Green? Because I remember last off season
Speaker 1: we talked about it for a second. You you said,
Speaker 1: I mean, how could I not be back here when
Speaker 1: Kevin Green is here? So what was it like working
Speaker 1: with him day in and day out throughout the course
Speaker 1: of the seasons? The man right the goat? Uh, it
Speaker 1: was pretty It was a blast. Now he brings so
Speaker 1: much energy. Uh. I'm sure if you've ever been to practice,
Speaker 1: you've heard g G and Uh. You know he loves
Speaker 1: on your heart and you he'll coach you up hard,
Speaker 1: which I really appreciate. As a player, you know, you
Speaker 1: want a straight shooter, someone that's gonna help you improve
Speaker 1: your game and get better day in and day out.
Speaker 1: You're a young guy, So did you when you heard
Speaker 1: Kevin Green was gonna be your outside linebackers coach? Did
Speaker 1: you yourself go, hey, listen, I'm going on YouTube. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna look out Kevin Green. Who's got the most sex
Speaker 1: in NFL history from the linebacker position? Or is it
Speaker 1: something that he brought to you guys? Oh, I knew
Speaker 1: who Kevin Green was. I didn't have to look him up.
Speaker 1: You know, if you're an eggs rusher coming up and
Speaker 1: you study the game, you know who the best guys are.
Speaker 1: And KG is certainly one of the best guys, if
Speaker 1: not the best. And uh, you know, I was just
Speaker 1: excited to work with him. You know, there's not much
Speaker 1: research I had to do. You know what technique wise,
Speaker 1: specifically did he help you out with this? Yere? No
Speaker 1: specific technique, more of a mindset, you know, just increasing
Speaker 1: my physical level of play, you know, being physical at
Speaker 1: the point of attack. And that's just one of the
Speaker 1: best everything everything starts with physicality. He talked about mindset
Speaker 1: all the time and one of his favorite expressions Hunter's
Speaker 1: heart right, Oh yeah, Hunter sart. You know you have
Speaker 1: to be uh, relentless in your pursuit of you know,
Speaker 1: the ball carrier, the quarterback, just your passion for football.
Speaker 1: What's your favorite play that you made from tooth down
Speaker 1: and seventeen and it doesn't necessarily have to be something
Speaker 1: that pops up on the statue from an outside linebacker position.
Speaker 1: I was really happy to play a reverse. Well, okay,
Speaker 1: versions are like my arch nemesis, like they because you
Speaker 1: get so tied in and pursuing to the ball from
Speaker 1: the back side. You know, when you're at this little
Speaker 1: it's very difficult to make plays and chase him down
Speaker 1: from the back side. Every now and then you'll get lucky. Uh,
Speaker 1: what I've learned to, you know, be patient and see
Speaker 1: what happens. What about your success, um stopping guys behind
Speaker 1: the line? You lead the team in turn terms of
Speaker 1: tackles for loss this year with twelve, what do you
Speaker 1: attribute that success to? Oh, opportunity one. Then just being
Speaker 1: physical at the point of attack. You know, I took
Speaker 1: pride in and knocking people down. Yeah, you know, buckling
Speaker 1: tight ends and offensive guards, pulling you know, around the edge,
Speaker 1: and uh, when you kno guys down, my eye blind
Speaker 1: of scrimmage. But but but the other thing too is
Speaker 1: that you know, I know people say, hey, you didn't
Speaker 1: have too many sacks, but you were around the quarterback.
Speaker 1: You went back to play this year because I think
Speaker 1: in all when you look at you over sixteen games,
Speaker 1: you were second on the team in terms of quarterback hits. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's tough. You know, as an egg rusher outside linebacker,
Speaker 1: all you can you know, all everyone talks about his
Speaker 1: sacks and uh, you know, I one and a half
Speaker 1: sacks this year, which is very difficult for me to say,
Speaker 1: like giving the amount of playing time that I had.
Speaker 1: But then you know, you look at the quarterback hits
Speaker 1: and how I was able to affect the quarterback in
Speaker 1: other ways, and uh, you know, from that aspect, it
Speaker 1: was a productive season. Yeah, because you were around the
Speaker 1: quarterback a lot, Josh, and the other thing that you
Speaker 1: continue to do, You're you're a special team stalwart. You
Speaker 1: don't come off the field. I mean you're playing all
Speaker 1: the defense snaps some long games this year and then
Speaker 1: you finished again right at the top in terms of
Speaker 1: special teams tackles for this team. So, I mean, did
Speaker 1: you have to do something differently this year as far
Speaker 1: as um your cardial because you're you're you're in good shape. Ever,
Speaker 1: everybody look at you right now saying this guy is
Speaker 1: in good shape. But you know, like you said, I
Speaker 1: knew going into the season, Uh I was gonna have
Speaker 1: to be a contributor on special teams in defense, and
Speaker 1: so I prepare for that my trading regiment and my
Speaker 1: conditioning and uh, there's only so much you can do
Speaker 1: to prepare. But you know, after you get those first
Speaker 1: few games under your dought, you're good to go. Before
Speaker 1: I ask you a question about special teams, I want
Speaker 1: to bring something up real quick because I have to
Speaker 1: know before you leave for the two thousand eighteen or
Speaker 1: seventeen off season two thus in eighteen off season, whatever
Speaker 1: you want to call it. I'm not sure what what
Speaker 1: would be two thousand seventeen off season. I'm still I'm
Speaker 1: still started. I started the Happy New Year. I have
Speaker 1: to know, because one day I'm in the locker room
Speaker 1: and you're you're, you're on your phone whatever. Darrenly walks by.
Speaker 1: He says, Hercules, he called you. He called you Hercules.
Speaker 1: Is that a common nickname for you or is that
Speaker 1: just a darren Ly nickname for you? O? Darrenly nickname?
Speaker 1: You know, guys, because it's fit. It's a fitting nickname.
Speaker 1: I was just you know, and but you said you
Speaker 1: like to lift weight youd like to knock people over.
Speaker 1: So I had to know. Yeah, it's a darrenly thing.
Speaker 1: Uh that that's one of the great things about this
Speaker 1: locker room is the camaraderie we've able you know, we've
Speaker 1: been able to build over the last couple of years,
Speaker 1: and that's, you know, something exciting. Are you the first
Speaker 1: player in the NFL history to graduate from Columbia with
Speaker 1: a degree in anthropology? I would think so, I would
Speaker 1: think so as well. Anthropology. I know it's a study
Speaker 1: of humans. But what can you tell me as far
Speaker 1: as specifically that covered. I studied anthropology with an imphosisan
Speaker 1: socio cultural anthropology, so really the study of people and
Speaker 1: how they operate within the culture society. And uh, it
Speaker 1: really just was an opportunity for me to learn about
Speaker 1: different people and and uh, I really appreciate everyone for
Speaker 1: their differences down the line after well, after your NFL
Speaker 1: career is done. But do you think that that is
Speaker 1: something that you would pursue professionally down the line getting
Speaker 1: into that. No, Uh, I probably wouldn't pursue anything but anthropology,
Speaker 1: But I do think it really has informed the way
Speaker 1: that I like to live my life and understanding that
Speaker 1: we're all different and we all bring something to the table,
Speaker 1: and uh, there's value in that. So that's just you know,
Speaker 1: you're you're interested in finance, right because I remember speaking
Speaker 1: to you last off season and you're going out to
Speaker 1: Florida to help out with an NFL initiative for finances. Right. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was the inaugural NFL Finance boot Camp player ambassador
Speaker 1: the fast year. I was happy about that. You know,
Speaker 1: I tell everyone, if you show up enough, I've gone
Speaker 1: three years in a row, they give you a title
Speaker 1: because I really appreciate them making it official. Uh, the
Speaker 1: renaissance man here, Josh Martin, you're on the inside the Jets. Lastly, Uh,
Speaker 1: would you echoed Mario sentiments that this team is in
Speaker 1: a good position right now as you move forward, and
Speaker 1: are you excited as a veteran to get back here
Speaker 1: and see what's next. I'm I'm extremely excited. We're definitely
Speaker 1: moving in the right direction. And and I think a
Speaker 1: lot of what people don't see, you know, in the
Speaker 1: locker room, uh, a different social gatherings. There's really a
Speaker 1: sense of team, which is important when you build that
Speaker 1: level of trust with guys. You know, on Sunday when
Speaker 1: you're playing in the game, you know you of the
Speaker 1: guy on a personal level. Oh and and that GI
Speaker 1: allows you to communicate more effectively to to know that
Speaker 1: he has your back and uh, you know, be able
Speaker 1: to play more freely if if that makes sense. Joshua,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us tonight and Inside
Speaker 1: the Jets enjoy your travels. Will be right back with
Speaker 1: their final section. Welcome back to Inside the Jets. Eric
Speaker 1: Allen and Ethan Greenberg here at Vanderbilt Sports and Spirits
Speaker 1: inside the Windham Hamilton's Park Hotel. Well two thousands seventeen
Speaker 1: has gone way too quickly on the production and of things.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of people who make Inside the Jets happen.
Speaker 1: I want to thank uh Justin and Robert who helped
Speaker 1: us here on location in Floren Park throughout the year.
Speaker 1: Brittany Ray Santiago back at ESPN Radio. Bart Scott started
Speaker 1: as my co host this year. Obviously Ethan Greenberg finished
Speaker 1: up in the co host seat and all our great
Speaker 1: guests throughout the year. We've had a tremendous program tonight
Speaker 1: with both Tomorrow Oh Davis and Josh Martin. Josh Martin
Speaker 1: joining us and once again, Greens, let me tell you something,
Speaker 1: um I do think the Jets are headed in the
Speaker 1: right direction. I think a Jets fan has plenty to
Speaker 1: be excited about this offseason. You got hit on some
Speaker 1: of these free agency signings. With that being said, you
Speaker 1: have a lot of money to spend, you have financial flexibility,
Speaker 1: you can address holes because then you go into the
Speaker 1: draft without your hands tied. And the Jets do have
Speaker 1: the number six overall selection of two thousand eighteen NFL Draft,
Speaker 1: and Mike mccagnan has hit with both of his sixes
Speaker 1: so far. So let's make it a trifecta this year.
Speaker 1: Leonard Williams in two thousand fifteen. Of course, Jamal Adams
Speaker 1: with two thousand seventeen. I wonder how Jamal is doing
Speaker 1: Greens right now after going out at Gillette Stadium in
Speaker 1: pregame warmups with Yeah, that that was an interesting move,
Speaker 1: to say the least. You could call it a bold move, Cotton,
Speaker 1: if you get my reference there from dodgeball, but it
Speaker 1: was I would never do that. For the record, I
Speaker 1: thought that was crazy. But good for him. Good for him.
Speaker 1: But but I'll tell you what, the kid loves playing football.
Speaker 1: He brings a lot of passion to the game. I
Speaker 1: think that's what we saw from the Jets throughout the year.
Speaker 1: I think that uh, Mike mccagnan had to make a
Speaker 1: number of offseason moves to change this roster. The Jets
Speaker 1: got younger in the off season. I thought Todd Bowls
Speaker 1: did a fine job coaching him up. Uh. With that
Speaker 1: being said, nobody's celebrating the five victories here. I anticipate
Speaker 1: the Jets have taken other stuff in two thousand and eighteen.
Speaker 1: I mentioned it before, Greens. I think when you look
Speaker 1: at some of the teams are playing a wild card
Speaker 1: weekend Tennessee Titans and Buffalo Bills, things like that, teams
Speaker 1: like that, there isn't a big talent scripancy here. There's not,
Speaker 1: and Jets are gonna be very active in the off season.
Speaker 1: It's if you're a Jets fan, tympically put, you have
Speaker 1: to be excited. And that's it inside the Jets for
Speaker 1: two thousand seven. See thank you so much everyone. M
Speaker 1: hm m m m m m m m m hm