1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. M 4 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:26,800 Speaker 1: Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt. They 5 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 1: call me Ben. We are joined with our super producer 6 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:33,279 Speaker 1: Paul Mission controlled decade. Most importantly, you are you. You 7 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 1: are here, and that makes this stuff they don't want 8 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:40,639 Speaker 1: you to know. This is an episode that was surprised 9 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 1: we hadn't done before. I'm gonna go ahead and stop 10 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:45,959 Speaker 1: you there. We can't continue on that line. Okay, We're 11 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: gonna get stopped going down that line, so let's just 12 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:53,160 Speaker 1: move on with something else. Okay, understood. Well, then let's 13 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 1: let's jump to the second point. Get this out of 14 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 1: the way first, Very very very sorry. That one is 15 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 1: also just man, we can't go there either. I'm sorry. 16 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 1: They're just telling me. I've got them in my ear 17 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:06,319 Speaker 1: and they're telling me we can't. Okay, well, let me 18 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: phrase this in a different way. Let's get this out 19 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:12,280 Speaker 1: of the way first. Very very few countries you will 20 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 1: visit in the modern day are completely free from censorship. Okay, 21 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 1: we'll let that one stand. Okay, alright, is that vague enough, 22 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 1: It's it's still no kidding up. Vast improvement over the 23 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:30,479 Speaker 1: days of past civilizations. Though we talk about censorship where 24 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:34,120 Speaker 1: we talk around it so often. In our show Matt earlier, 25 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:39,679 Speaker 1: you and I dove into a very dark tale of 26 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 1: current concentration camps and the vast amounts of censorship that 27 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 1: the Chinese government is applying to the weaker communities. Absolutely, 28 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 1: we did. Unfortunately we had to. We talked about that 29 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 1: because it's real and it's something that needs to be 30 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 1: shared at least. But in this case we're just we're 31 00:01:56,640 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 1: talking about thought control. Really, that's what is this whole subject. Yeah, 32 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 1: ultimately this is an episode on thought control. How does 33 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:09,640 Speaker 1: it work, What if anything can you do to prevent it? 34 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:12,520 Speaker 1: And how is it evolving in the modern day. We're 35 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 1: talking about censorship. And the first thing that we have 36 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 1: to explore when we talk about censorship, this word that 37 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 1: we all here thrown around so often, is how it 38 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 1: is defined. Like, what what do we mean when we 39 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:29,960 Speaker 1: say censorship? Generally it's the suppression or in many cases, 40 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:37,360 Speaker 1: the complete prohibition of books, art, films, news, speech itself, 41 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 1: works of art that depicts certain things. All of these 42 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 1: things that could be considered, for one reason or another, 43 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 1: obscene to a ruling group, something that's seen as politically 44 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 1: unacceptable or in some way a threat to the status quo, 45 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 1: or like anything basically having to do with the people 46 00:02:56,760 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 1: who are in power, right or a threat to secure purity, 47 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 1: or a threat to social, spiritual, cultural norms. And right now, 48 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:10,519 Speaker 1: there are several broad categories of what we call censorship. 49 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:16,119 Speaker 1: The first one, historically speaking, is moral censorship, and right now, 50 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:20,120 Speaker 1: this is one of the most universally accepted forms of 51 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 1: censoring things, especially regarding stuff that most of the world 52 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:26,959 Speaker 1: can get on board with, like the censorship of certain 53 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: types of illegal pornography, absolutely, or the censorship of things 54 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 1: like beheading videos, certain forms of violence depicted. Not everyone 55 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 1: agrees on that one. Everyone increases terrible but true, but 56 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 1: it's generally generally something that's done. There are also types 57 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 1: of moral censori censorship just through social media right now, 58 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 1: just by enough people talking and pointing out things that 59 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 1: would be considered to be morally apprehensive. You're absolutely right. 60 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 1: And we went to pornography first because it's a hot 61 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 1: button issue and it's banned in a lot of countries. 62 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 1: But imagine that you are, say, traveling to certain Middle 63 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 1: Eastern countries, and in your possession you have um the 64 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:18,719 Speaker 1: wrong kind of um Islamic text or the wrong kind 65 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 1: of Judeo Christian text. And additionally, you have something kind 66 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 1: of lewd, like a Playboy magazine, because that's apparently your 67 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:32,480 Speaker 1: reading material when you fly across the ocean, Playboys and 68 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 1: religious works. To be fair, it was a vintage, vintage 69 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:41,280 Speaker 1: Playboy magazine and it had the old article in there's 70 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 1: an interview with Michael Jackson. So I thought it was 71 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:45,839 Speaker 1: worth it. Okay, yeah, you thought it was worth it 72 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 1: to play the dangerous game of passing customs with the 73 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 1: help of Michael Jackson. In several of those countries, these 74 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:57,720 Speaker 1: works would be confiscated and you may well be detained 75 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 1: because the possession or importation of these things is a 76 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:05,480 Speaker 1: violation of the law, and being sovereign countries, they get 77 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 1: to decide what breaks the law. This this stuff happens today. 78 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:13,840 Speaker 1: It's not just on the Internet, and it's been happening 79 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:17,040 Speaker 1: for a long time. It goes hand in hand with 80 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:23,040 Speaker 1: its close cousin, religious censorship. Oh yes, religious censorship. It's 81 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:26,720 Speaker 1: really speaking of vintage. This is the one that goes 82 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:31,920 Speaker 1: all the way back pretty much. In this version of censorship, 83 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:38,280 Speaker 1: you're looking at pretty much any material, book, speech, otherwise 84 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: art again that is questionable or seen as questionable will 85 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:46,600 Speaker 1: buy a religious group again where if you go back 86 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:49,720 Speaker 1: far enough, the religion, the religious groups are the power, right, 87 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 1: that's your government essentially in a lot of places. And 88 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 1: in this you're even gonna have limitations that are forced 89 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:59,839 Speaker 1: on less prevalent religions by the ruling religion in a 90 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 1: and let's say a good example as the Catholic Church, 91 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:06,599 Speaker 1: which we'll see a little further on in this uh 92 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:09,160 Speaker 1: in this episode. And I wouldn't even say questionable, I 93 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:14,159 Speaker 1: would say objection herble because this this kind of stuff 94 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 1: reaches its heyday in places where there is no descent 95 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 1: or times and places where there's no free speech. And 96 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 1: as you said, man, it's the dominant religion forcing limitations 97 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 1: on less prevalent ones. But it could also be a 98 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:34,160 Speaker 1: less dominant religion just preventing its adherents from reading anything 99 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 1: outside of the community's approved scripts. Yeah, that happens all 100 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 1: the time with cults because they don't wanna they don't 101 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 1: want your mind to be polluted by worldly things or 102 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:47,599 Speaker 1: words that are not the words of the great leaders 103 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 1: divine understanding, postulations, postulations, revelations, they would say regurgitations. Quite so, 104 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:00,919 Speaker 1: some of their opponent as to say, you know what, 105 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:03,480 Speaker 1: some of the cult leaders would say that too, because 106 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: they're just speaking for the trees or the space gods 107 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 1: or whatever. They're a conduit. They're a conduit. Yes, they're 108 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 1: the conduit. There are two other types of closely related 109 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 1: censorship that have I don't know, maybe some merit, that's 110 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 1: the thing. A lot of these have some kind of merit. 111 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 1: There's military censorship, which is just keeping its op sack. 112 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 1: You know, it's keeping military intelligence and tactics confidential and 113 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 1: away from specifically the enemy. This only becomes problematic when 114 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 1: the native civilian population is considered the enemy, which happens 115 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 1: all the time historically speaking absolutely. And then of course 116 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 1: you've got the cousin to that one. They're all just 117 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 1: distant cousins in a way, some of them maybe a 118 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 1: little even closer related. But the the act of political censorship, 119 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 1: and this is important again, like military censorship, sometimes governments 120 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 1: have to keep things quiet or secret so that a 121 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 1: other countries and leaders don't know what they're doing, which 122 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: is even closer related to military censorship than I'm letting on. 123 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 1: That's like the I don't know, the twin brother twin 124 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 1: sister kind of deal, because a lot of times the 125 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 1: politics and the military are that closely related. Um. Sorry, 126 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 1: I'm going along here, but um, it's also really important 127 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 1: for countries and politicians and governments to keep things from 128 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 1: their own people to prevent them from overthrowing the throne, 129 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 1: the throne especially, yeah, to prevent rebellion. And that's so 130 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 1: similar to religious censorship. To write. The last one, which 131 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 1: is the rising star in the world of censorship is 132 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 1: corporate censorship is increasingly common in these are modern days. 133 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 1: This is the process through which editors of a corporate 134 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 1: meat yet outlet would intervene, So anything from The New 135 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 1: York Times to our very own podcast would intervene to 136 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 1: disrupt the publishing of information that makes a business or 137 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 1: a business partner crony look bad and then also suppressed 138 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 1: any alternative views or, in the case of open advertisement, 139 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:23,199 Speaker 1: any alternative offers from reaching the public sphere. So, just 140 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:26,480 Speaker 1: to pick an example out of out of the ether, 141 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:31,680 Speaker 1: this would be something where let's say NBC doesn't allow 142 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 1: eight commercials for ABC shows to be on their networks. 143 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 1: But it could also be something like Walmart moves to 144 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 1: town and buys up all the newspaper space so that 145 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:44,840 Speaker 1: the mom and pop story can't buy a supplement, Uh 146 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:47,959 Speaker 1: to put in the Sunday paper. That's not very nice. No, 147 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 1: but it is censorship. And all of these forms of 148 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 1: censorship are currently extant, they exist today in the world. 149 00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 1: Likely some version of this kind of stuff exist in 150 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 1: your own country, even if, maybe like in the case 151 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 1: of religious censorship, your own country doesn't condone it. I 152 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:10,960 Speaker 1: can almost guarantee you that if you have a military, 153 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 1: your government may not completely control aspects of it, and 154 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 1: that need to know basis is its own form of 155 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 1: self enforcing censorship. Absolutely, And even if you believe that 156 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:24,680 Speaker 1: you live in a country that doesn't have some kind 157 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:28,720 Speaker 1: of censorship over its people, um, where we unfortunately have 158 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 1: to inform you that you're probably wrong. Oh yeah, oh, 159 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:37,720 Speaker 1: you're so wrong. Yeah, unfortunately, especially here it's here in 160 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 1: the US where we record this this podcast, in this 161 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 1: episode of this podcast, And that leads us to task, 162 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 1: So how long have these practices been around? This is 163 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:50,079 Speaker 1: not stuff that we just figured out as a species, 164 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 1: censorship is ancient. It has followed human civilization throughout history 165 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 1: like a sinister shadow, just one step behind, sometimes looming 166 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:04,000 Speaker 1: larger than other times, but always at every moment with us. 167 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 1: And we'll get to the crazy stuff pretty quickly. In 168 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 1: this episode. We want to explore where where censorship came from. 169 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 1: The modern word we used today comes from Roman civilization. 170 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:20,800 Speaker 1: There was an actual dude, There was actual person, an 171 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 1: actual political position called a sensor, and they ruled certain 172 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 1: areas of Roman policy with absolute power. When we say 173 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 1: we mean absolute power, we mean the other leaders could 174 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:34,960 Speaker 1: not could not contest or not change their findings. And 175 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 1: then when they were done serving their time, a new 176 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 1: sensor could not change the findings of the previous one 177 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:43,960 Speaker 1: at all. No, Oh my gosh, it's just your word 178 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 1: is law, and that's all there is to it. This 179 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 1: is now what civilization can and can't do in these 180 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:54,000 Speaker 1: certain aspects of of the law. The censor was responsible 181 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 1: for maintaining the census, not a big surprise there, uh 182 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 1: supervising public moraleity, and then overseeing some aspects of government finance. 183 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: So the most important part for our purposes today is 184 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 1: there charged to supervise public morality. This was something called 185 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 1: the regimen morum. And it's key here because the censors 186 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:22,080 Speaker 1: at first would punish or shame people as individuals, both 187 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 1: for activities in their private lives that could be anything 188 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 1: very serious from being quote overly cruel to slaves or 189 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 1: quote acting in theaters. You could get in trouble for that, 190 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 1: as seen as dishonorable acting in a theater and spoke 191 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:41,080 Speaker 1: poorly to your character. You could also get people in 192 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:44,880 Speaker 1: trouble for their public behaviors perjury, taking a bribe, or 193 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:48,280 Speaker 1: keeping a good horse in bad condition, not taking good 194 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 1: care of your horse. Okay, I can see why those 195 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 1: would be looked down upon, perhaps at least frowned upon. 196 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 1: All all of those actually, especially the theaters one um. Well, 197 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:03,599 Speaker 1: the here's the other thing. The consequences from being censored 198 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 1: could include anything from being expelled from the Senate if 199 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 1: you were serving in the Senate at the time, or 200 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:14,559 Speaker 1: you could even be expelled from the tribe your tribe, 201 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:18,560 Speaker 1: which would be a major blow to you and your family. 202 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:24,720 Speaker 1: Social excommunication. Right then, of course, this could lead to death. 203 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:29,360 Speaker 1: Everybody dies, or most people do. It's just the timing 204 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:31,840 Speaker 1: would probably not be to your liking. Yeah, it is 205 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 1: crazy to think that you could be censored to death. Yeah. 206 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:40,080 Speaker 1: And from this original duty, this one aspect of this 207 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 1: one to two person job, the regiment morum grew to 208 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 1: include the scrutiny of public speeches and performances and then 209 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 1: written work, and censorship was not seen as a bad, 210 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:55,359 Speaker 1: authoritarian or heavy handed thing. It was seen as a benevolent, 211 00:13:55,640 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 1: just necessary, even noble way to maintain social order. I 212 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 1: think we got to just talk about this for a second, 213 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 1: because I think it's a difficult stance, but it has 214 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:10,920 Speaker 1: to be taken that it's something that you said at 215 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:14,960 Speaker 1: the top Bend, that this type of censorship, once we 216 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 1: get to this place where it's looking at everything um, 217 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 1: is kind of necessary to get enough people on the 218 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 1: same page to build an empire or build a massive civilization, 219 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 1: especially on the scale of the Roman Empire at the time. Sure, 220 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 1: but doesn't necessarily make it good, absolutely not, absolutely not. 221 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 1: But but in a way, I guess in a way 222 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 1: it is good in the moment, right, and it's it's 223 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 1: good for both the status quo of the people who 224 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:47,720 Speaker 1: are trying to create this new order or whatever it's 225 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 1: going to be. As well as for the citizens to 226 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 1: some extent, because it sounds like they are or the 227 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 1: attempt here is to alter people's behavior to be more 228 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 1: in line with suiting a larger civilization. Right. And at 229 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 1: the time, you know, these civilizations were attempting to expand 230 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 1: and enforce systematic inequality. Yes, by by engulfing other civilization, 231 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 1: smaller civilizations. Right. And this um one practice of a 232 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 1: lot of ancient civilizations was a very effective form of censorship, 233 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 1: restricting literacy to certain social classes. Yeah, if you cannot 234 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 1: write or read, then how are you going to change anything? Right? 235 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 1: The most famous case of censorship in ancient Rome dates 236 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 1: back to Socrates. He was sentenced to death and they 237 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 1: told him to ingest poison in three b c E. 238 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:51,920 Speaker 1: What was his crime, though, corruption of youth and the 239 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:56,840 Speaker 1: acknowledgement of unorthodox divinities now right, wrong parties, wrong gods, 240 00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 1: that's what that sounds like. Maybe causing the children of 241 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 1: well to do members of society tasks too many tough questions. 242 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 1: I think that's exactly what his issue was. We literally 243 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:11,520 Speaker 1: call it the Socratic method. Yeah, by listening to someone's argument, 244 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 1: taking parts of what they say into your argument and 245 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 1: then coming up with a consensus. Interesting interestingly enough, Yes, 246 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 1: I read that round interestingly enough. In the Republic, Socrates 247 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 1: student Plato argues for censorship. Yeah, well, in Plato and 248 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 1: a few other of his contemporaries are the only ways 249 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 1: we actually know anything about Socrates, because that's his life. 250 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 1: Actually wasn't written down a whole bunch by him, at 251 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 1: least that was recorded by him in the moment. So 252 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 1: did he exist? Story for another day, but it is 253 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 1: safe to assume if we first assume there was real 254 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:51,480 Speaker 1: it's also safe to assume he was not the first 255 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:54,560 Speaker 1: person to be punished in this way. And boy oh boy, 256 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 1: speaking of setting a precedent, the Romans sure did. We'll 257 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 1: see how this plays out and their descendants civilizations shortly 258 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:07,479 Speaker 1: after this. We should also mention censorship was common in 259 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 1: ancient China is very old and to twenty one b c. E. 260 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:14,920 Speaker 1: An entire library was burned down in the Kingdom, and 261 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:19,480 Speaker 1: their first official law regarding censorship, surprise they were for 262 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:25,400 Speaker 1: it was introduced in three But we mentioned Europe, right, 263 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:27,400 Speaker 1: so let's just go right there. Europe has a ton 264 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:31,360 Speaker 1: of civilizations descended in some way from Roman culture, and 265 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:34,639 Speaker 1: this means. It also has a long, laughable, tragic history 266 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:38,679 Speaker 1: with censorship. Yeah, and first to get hit here is 267 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:42,280 Speaker 1: free speech. This is an idea that we hear a 268 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 1: lot nowadays. It implies the just the free expression of thoughts. 269 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:49,200 Speaker 1: That's all it means, really. But this was a challenge 270 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:52,480 Speaker 1: to the pre Christian rulers at the time. And uh, 271 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:56,439 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's a funny thing to have free 272 00:17:56,480 --> 00:18:00,240 Speaker 1: thought and then to express those thoughts to other people 273 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:03,400 Speaker 1: and then have a group of like minded people all 274 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:07,359 Speaker 1: having free thoughts that don't exactly go along with the church. 275 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 1: That's that's very troublesome, at least to the guardians of 276 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 1: at the time Christianity. Um, but it's it's you know, 277 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:20,240 Speaker 1: it becomes much more troublesome when the church itself organizes 278 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:23,879 Speaker 1: to a point where there's an official orthodox this is 279 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:27,159 Speaker 1: what is the church and nothing else, and there's dogmas. 280 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 1: Well exactly. Yeah, you're right, Matt. And as more books 281 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 1: were written and copied and even more widely disseminated, the 282 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:41,719 Speaker 1: ideas that were perceived as subversive and heretical were spread 283 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 1: beyond the control of rulers. It didn't matter now if 284 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:50,119 Speaker 1: you killed one heretic. If they had written a pamphlet 285 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:53,440 Speaker 1: or a book and someone else had copied it, then 286 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 1: that person's ideas lived on and they spread or metastasized, 287 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:01,399 Speaker 1: as their opponents will probably perceive it across the land. 288 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:04,720 Speaker 1: But it's important because at this time, when you say copied, 289 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 1: you mean actually written down, like gotten a blank paper 290 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 1: or a blank parchment and written down exactly what was 291 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 1: written on the other one. Right, And this this was 292 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:20,359 Speaker 1: an advantage over something like a subversive oral tradition in 293 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:23,679 Speaker 1: terms of storytelling her songs, because if you kill everyone 294 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,680 Speaker 1: who knows the song, it's fine, it won't get out. 295 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:32,440 Speaker 1: But you have to. Books don't die as easily as people. 296 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:35,119 Speaker 1: You have to burn them. You have to you have 297 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 1: to find them. Right. A book can, even even if 298 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:41,200 Speaker 1: it won't be in great condition, in the right environment, 299 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:45,600 Speaker 1: A book can just sit somewhere for decades and decades. 300 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 1: It needs no food, it needs no um cycle of 301 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 1: sleep and wake. It's just there for someone to pick 302 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 1: it up. You can't coerce the book to not say 303 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 1: it's story anymore, right, you have to destroy or mutilate it. 304 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:02,360 Speaker 1: And as a concert points of this, censorship became increasingly 305 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:07,160 Speaker 1: rigid punishments became increasingly severe. And then, of course, one 306 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 1: of the last things that the establishment probably wanted to 307 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 1: happen happened, and the printing press was invented in Europe 308 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 1: in the mid fifteenth century, and this increased the need 309 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:20,880 Speaker 1: for censorship. Printing did help, you know what, Maybe I'm 310 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 1: being unfair, because printing did help the Catholic mission at 311 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 1: the time to spread um what it saw as a 312 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 1: divine revelation, you now, but it also aided the Protestant 313 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 1: Reformation and people like Martin Luther who were considered heretics. 314 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:43,280 Speaker 1: So the printed book became this huge religious battle ground, 315 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:47,640 Speaker 1: and it began a war that was also fought through 316 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 1: the medium of books. They started making books that would 317 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 1: communicate censorship. Oh yeah, like a book of prohibited books, 318 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:00,960 Speaker 1: or at least a very long list of books. There 319 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:03,119 Speaker 1: was a pope, a gentleman named Paul the Fourth, who 320 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:07,639 Speaker 1: ordered the first index of capital p prohibited books in 321 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:12,480 Speaker 1: fifteen fifty nine, and then that uh an index, like 322 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:16,119 Speaker 1: an updated index was issued again twenty times by different 323 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:21,359 Speaker 1: different popes who succeeded, and then finally from fifteen fifty 324 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:26,919 Speaker 1: nine all the way until nineteen The final prohibited Books 325 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:31,320 Speaker 1: list was issued nineteen forty eight. That's not that long ago, 326 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:34,399 Speaker 1: but they kept that thing in practice. It was still 327 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 1: on the books for lack of a better phrase, until 328 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:41,640 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty six, when it was finally abolished. Yeah, so 329 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:47,640 Speaker 1: that's a long time of prohibiting reading. And the Catholic 330 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 1: Church was the first and final judge of which books 331 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:56,760 Speaker 1: emerged on this list, right, and books didn't usually get 332 00:21:56,760 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 1: pulled off or forgiven, and the Inquisition held enforced this 333 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:04,560 Speaker 1: ideology by banning and burning books when they were discovered, 334 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:08,120 Speaker 1: and in some cases burning the authors along with their books. 335 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:12,119 Speaker 1: The most famous author that the Catholic Church band is, 336 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 1: of course Galileo. That was in sixteen thirty three, because 337 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 1: he was heretically letting people know about, you know, the 338 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:25,440 Speaker 1: solar system and the stars. He was going against their God. Yeah, exactly. 339 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 1: So the most famous victim of the Inquisition would be 340 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:33,240 Speaker 1: Joan of Arc probably and maybe Thomas Moore. Additionally, the 341 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:38,360 Speaker 1: Catholic Church controlled all the universities and all the publications 342 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 1: that those universities made. In fifty three, they said, okay, 343 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 1: that's it. No book can be printed or sold unless 344 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:48,560 Speaker 1: we say it's all right unless we sign off on it. 345 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 1: And then a little bit later a guy in France 346 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 1: doubled down on that. Oh yeah, he the uh what 347 00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,439 Speaker 1: is He's the King of France, Charles the ninth. He 348 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:03,639 Speaker 1: declared that nothing could be printed without the special permission 349 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:07,440 Speaker 1: of the king. And then you know, when one ruler 350 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:10,400 Speaker 1: does that, several others their ears perk up and they go, hey, 351 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 1: that sounds like a really good idea. So other rules 352 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:16,719 Speaker 1: rulers in Europe were also banning books that were not 353 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 1: approved by them as soon as they heard about it, yes, immediately, 354 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:27,040 Speaker 1: post haste. This practice was pretty effective, tremendously effective because 355 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:31,320 Speaker 1: also when we consider what it took to operate a 356 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:34,440 Speaker 1: printing press, where we're looking at the possession of a 357 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:38,400 Speaker 1: lot of capital that the average European simply would not have, 358 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:40,640 Speaker 1: you'd have to be a powerful enemy to be going 359 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 1: against that list and distributing works at least to to 360 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:47,160 Speaker 1: an effective amount. Yeah, in a world where a lot 361 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:50,959 Speaker 1: of people can't afford to eat meat, much less, stop 362 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:56,120 Speaker 1: the constant grind for survival to learn that there could 363 00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,159 Speaker 1: be at least a different form of governance, and that 364 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 1: constant kind of moving this machine forward of civilization does 365 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 1: at times require people to live below a poverty line 366 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:10,159 Speaker 1: wherever that may lie, just to be workers, to be 367 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:13,960 Speaker 1: cogs in that giant machine. I would yeah, I would say, um, 368 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:18,359 Speaker 1: most government systems require the entire uh the largest amount 369 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:22,880 Speaker 1: of the population to be around that, Yeah, to just 370 00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:27,360 Speaker 1: be functional machines essentially at least of the time. So 371 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 1: this this stuff is working so well, this strategy is 372 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:34,080 Speaker 1: working so well. That becomes a crucial part in the 373 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 1: Grand European scheme to conquer what they called the New World. 374 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 1: Catholic countries worked hand in hand with the religious authorities. 375 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 1: Philip the second of Spain reinstated the inquisition in fifteen 376 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 1: sixty nine and then franchised it out, made a Peruvian 377 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:56,640 Speaker 1: inquisition in fifteen seventy the next year, just a monitor 378 00:24:56,680 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 1: and censor unwelcome beliefs from the people who actually lived 379 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:04,400 Speaker 1: on this continent before the Europeans got there and the 380 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 1: dissidents who are trying to escape the proving inquisition system. 381 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,920 Speaker 1: Really a lot of it focused on controlling the import 382 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 1: of books, so they would examine ships and luggage import 383 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:20,320 Speaker 1: they would look through libraries and bookstores and printing houses, 384 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:26,640 Speaker 1: and it was oppressive and sinister um extended to colonies 385 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:31,639 Speaker 1: in the America's as well, but it's still paled in 386 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:39,679 Speaker 1: comparison to another act of cultural genocide, censorship on a 387 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:44,600 Speaker 1: massive scale, in the case of the Spanish invaders destroying 388 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 1: the literature of the Maya people. They literally erased history. Yeah, 389 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:54,199 Speaker 1: it's gone. This is what you would call cultural genocide, right, 390 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 1: A lot a lot of it was. Yeah, a lot 391 00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:00,399 Speaker 1: of was lost, sort of like the Library of Alexandria. No. 392 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:01,879 Speaker 1: I just had to say, this is one of the 393 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:06,200 Speaker 1: reasons that Mayan civilization is so fascinating in a lot 394 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 1: of places within this mysterious universe, conspiratorial world. I believe 395 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:15,359 Speaker 1: the mind civilization so interesting because so much of it, 396 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,960 Speaker 1: the actual explanations of what things are, it's been lost 397 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:24,160 Speaker 1: to history, right, Like I knew about the Popovoo, the 398 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:28,159 Speaker 1: cultural story that talks about the mythology and history of 399 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:32,280 Speaker 1: the Key chap people, But there was a lot of 400 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 1: stuff that I thought I would have encountered before that 401 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:41,639 Speaker 1: I only learned through oral tradition, like the um the 402 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 1: story of how the religious syncretism occurs. But but be 403 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,960 Speaker 1: that as it may, it is true that for lack 404 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:54,320 Speaker 1: of a better word. They did erase history, and it 405 00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 1: sounds like we're paying. The Spanish Empire is just a 406 00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:01,159 Speaker 1: load of real pills. But Britain, France and Germany weren't 407 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:05,359 Speaker 1: exactly progressive either. The postal service was invented in France 408 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:09,000 Speaker 1: in fourteen sixty four and it, just like overnight, became 409 00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 1: this tool of state sponsored, religiously supported censorship. And then 410 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:18,240 Speaker 1: this meant that by the eighteenth century, the press and 411 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:22,879 Speaker 1: the majority of Europe was subject to censorship. In the 412 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:27,159 Speaker 1: nineteenth century, things looked like they might have changed, or 413 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 1: began to change. There was an independent press that started 414 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:35,720 Speaker 1: to emerge, separating itself from people were with more and 415 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:40,719 Speaker 1: more passionate articulation demanding a free press, meaning one that 416 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: is not governed by the state or the church. But 417 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:52,439 Speaker 1: this was not a global change. Japan had incredibly strict 418 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 1: press laws at the time. And then if we keep going, 419 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:59,120 Speaker 1: of course, the Nazis Uh. The Nazis were big fans 420 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,919 Speaker 1: of looks. They found them very flammable. They thought that 421 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:06,159 Speaker 1: was neat. In the modern age, the USSR and the 422 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 1: Eastern Bloc ran one of the world's most expansive, successful 423 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 1: and contiguous censorship programs in the twentieth century. It started 424 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 1: in what October? Yeah, Yeah, it lasted until the nineteen eighties. Yeah, 425 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:24,399 Speaker 1: And it's mind boggling if you think about that. A 426 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:28,160 Speaker 1: lot of us listening to the show today, we're alive 427 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:32,600 Speaker 1: when people were getting arrested in the USSR in the 428 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:36,639 Speaker 1: Eastern Bloc for various things that may seem kind of 429 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 1: silly in the In the modern day, and speaking in 430 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:40,840 Speaker 1: modern day, today, we live in a world of endless, 431 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 1: cheaply transmitted information. What does that mean. It means that 432 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 1: it is possible now for anyone with a phone and 433 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 1: a good Internet connection, almost regardless of their language, to download, 434 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,560 Speaker 1: in a relatively short period of time, more written work 435 00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 1: than our ancestors would have seen in their entire lives. 436 00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:07,120 Speaker 1: You can right now, for example, download the entirety of Wikipedia, 437 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:09,320 Speaker 1: not just look at it. You can have it all 438 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:11,920 Speaker 1: on your phone and you will not need an Internet 439 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:15,520 Speaker 1: connection to read it. That's amazing. And so that means 440 00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:22,000 Speaker 1: that in the wake of this massive technological breakthrough, censorship 441 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 1: might be losing its importance, or maybe it's influence. Right, 442 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,560 Speaker 1: there's not a church in charge that can shut everything down. Yeah, 443 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:33,440 Speaker 1: you're right. Censorship is gone, doesn't exist anymore. We're we're 444 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:37,040 Speaker 1: done here. Thanks for this, taking this journey into history 445 00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:41,280 Speaker 1: about censorship with us. Oh wait, nope, nope, that's that's 446 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 1: very very wrong. Couldn't be wronger and we'll tell you 447 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 1: why after a quick word from our sponsor. Here's where 448 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,960 Speaker 1: it gets crazy. While futurist of yesteryear often argue the 449 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,920 Speaker 1: limitless acts as to information could result in a more 450 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:05,479 Speaker 1: transparent and well informed society, we're seeing that this is 451 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:07,920 Speaker 1: not the case, at least not yet in many parts 452 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:11,680 Speaker 1: of the world. In fact, censorship is becoming much more common, 453 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:16,400 Speaker 1: rather than less common. According to the Committee to Protect Journalists, 454 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 1: the ten most heavily censored countries nowadays are Eritrea, North Korea, 455 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia, Ethiopia, Azerbaijan, Vietnam, Iran, China, Myanmar, and Cuba. 456 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:33,720 Speaker 1: Those are just the top ten worst offenders. Some of 457 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:36,240 Speaker 1: that is probably going to change, at least in the 458 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 1: case of Cuba, but that doesn't mean the things that 459 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:44,320 Speaker 1: aren't in the top ten are super great. Belarus is 460 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:48,239 Speaker 1: positively dangerous. But what what do we mean when they 461 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 1: say heavily censored? This is just where the laws are extremely, 462 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:56,080 Speaker 1: extremely strict, and you there are their punishments such as 463 00:30:56,080 --> 00:31:00,640 Speaker 1: harassment and imprisonment and sometimes even worse for people who 464 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 1: go against these laws, right, right, like the very recent 465 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:11,120 Speaker 1: incident in which Saudi Arabia abducted, tortured, and murdered a 466 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 1: US resident and Washington Post journalist named Sala Kashagi. It 467 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:20,720 Speaker 1: was extrajudicial killing. They're obviously not going to get in 468 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,440 Speaker 1: a lot of serious trouble from it from the US. 469 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:26,760 Speaker 1: The craziest thing is it was almost covered up and 470 00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:30,200 Speaker 1: then it wasn't. And I don't know what type of 471 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:34,440 Speaker 1: punishment could actually be, you know, laid out for the 472 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,640 Speaker 1: people who are responsible for it. The US government would 473 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:42,960 Speaker 1: have to impose consequences for that action. But is that 474 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:48,040 Speaker 1: going to happen. Probably not. An embassy is technically this, 475 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:51,880 Speaker 1: I think the soil on which like the soil of 476 00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:59,720 Speaker 1: the country there. So it really goes down to how 477 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 1: and if the US is a country that protects its 478 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:10,040 Speaker 1: residents and citizens, That's really what it goes down to. Yeah, 479 00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:12,680 Speaker 1: and yet it is so much more complicated, and yes 480 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:15,680 Speaker 1: it's its own episode, right, but just so just so 481 00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 1: you know, the way he died, the official explanation from 482 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,640 Speaker 1: the Saudi Arabian government was that it didn't happen, and 483 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:25,200 Speaker 1: then it did, and then it did happen, but there 484 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:28,720 Speaker 1: was a fist fight and he was that the guy started, 485 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:31,560 Speaker 1: and that he was killed in this fist fight. UH. 486 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:36,560 Speaker 1: The evidence that Turkish intelligence is providing has there's I 487 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:40,600 Speaker 1: believe they have audio evidence and forensic evidence that he 488 00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:44,280 Speaker 1: was sawed in half or like peace he was, he 489 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:48,600 Speaker 1: was dismembered while alive, which is not a fist fight. 490 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:53,600 Speaker 1: But we'll see what the will see what story everybody 491 00:32:53,640 --> 00:33:00,840 Speaker 1: agrees on pretty soon. Right now, everybody except for Saudi Arabia, UH, 492 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 1: pretty much agrees with the with the abduction, torture, murder narrative, 493 00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 1: especially because there was an alleged body double that was 494 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,680 Speaker 1: sent out later. The story is ongoing. I think the 495 00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:20,840 Speaker 1: the official position of the US executive branches that this 496 00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:27,040 Speaker 1: is quote unquote under investigation. The official position of the well, 497 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:32,600 Speaker 1: the rumored position, the anonymously quoted position of the U 498 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:36,520 Speaker 1: S military and intelligence agencies is that yes, it is true, 499 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:40,520 Speaker 1: the guy was tortured, died, being sawed to death, and 500 00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,560 Speaker 1: then his body was transported in pieces and hidden. But 501 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:48,240 Speaker 1: officially according to the executive branch. It's still under investigation. Anyway, 502 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:52,920 Speaker 1: it's happening. He was he was he was murdered by 503 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:56,360 Speaker 1: the Saudi Arabian government or by facets of it, because 504 00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:58,800 Speaker 1: he was a journalist and they didn't like what he 505 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:02,680 Speaker 1: was reporting. And it's it's becoming more and more dangerous. 506 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:04,880 Speaker 1: And it's again it seems like it shouldn't be this 507 00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:07,880 Speaker 1: way in this modern era, with this technology, but it 508 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:11,399 Speaker 1: is becoming more and more dangerous for reporters to go out, 509 00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:15,680 Speaker 1: especially to to practice investigative journalism, right right, and you 510 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:17,759 Speaker 1: and I found this fantastic piece from a guy named 511 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:20,799 Speaker 1: George Packer writing for The New Yorker. He said that 512 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:26,080 Speaker 1: censorship and danger to reporters is actually these events are 513 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:30,160 Speaker 1: growing more frequent, and they're growing more dangerous. We've we've 514 00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:32,480 Speaker 1: pulled a really cool quote from here. I think in 515 00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:34,919 Speaker 1: recent years reporting the news has become an ever more 516 00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:39,000 Speaker 1: dangerous activity. But between two thousand two and two thousand twelve, 517 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:42,560 Speaker 1: according to the Committee to Protect Journalists, five hundred and 518 00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:46,520 Speaker 1: six journalists were killed worldwide, as opposed to three hundred 519 00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:51,560 Speaker 1: and ninety in the previous decade, which is insane, and 520 00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:55,920 Speaker 1: the guy. We mentioned the Committee to Protect Journalists, right. Uh. 521 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:59,440 Speaker 1: The executive director of that outfits guy named Joel Simon, 522 00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:01,960 Speaker 1: author of a book called The New Censorship Inside the 523 00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:05,520 Speaker 1: Global Battle for Media Freedom, and he said the trend 524 00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:10,280 Speaker 1: nowadays is towards more secrecy, more censorship, and harsher laws, 525 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:16,160 Speaker 1: rather than less secrecy, less censorship, and less um, what 526 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:19,000 Speaker 1: would you say, punitive laws. Yeah, we have another quote 527 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:22,480 Speaker 1: from him. Deluged with data, we are blind to the 528 00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:26,000 Speaker 1: larger reality around the world, new systems of control are 529 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:29,960 Speaker 1: taking hold. They are stifling the global conversation and impeding 530 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,680 Speaker 1: the development of policies and solutions based on an informed 531 00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:38,800 Speaker 1: understanding of the local realities. Repression and violence against journalists 532 00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:44,600 Speaker 1: is at record levels, and press freedom is in decline. Yikes. Yeah, 533 00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:49,040 Speaker 1: it's true. It's true. So there may be a lot 534 00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:52,000 Speaker 1: of people, a lot of us listening now, who think, well, 535 00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:54,640 Speaker 1: you know, I don't really have anything to hide, I 536 00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:59,280 Speaker 1: don't have anything super controversial to say. Uh. And most importantly, 537 00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,040 Speaker 1: I'm not invest sigative journalists, so I don't have the 538 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:06,239 Speaker 1: same concerns. Will tell you why this matters. The first 539 00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:10,560 Speaker 1: we want to tell you the four reasons that he 540 00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:14,799 Speaker 1: believes there's this rise in this new violent era of censorship, 541 00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:17,680 Speaker 1: or I should say historically, this return to this violent 542 00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:21,000 Speaker 1: era of censorship. The first is that there's the rise 543 00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:26,440 Speaker 1: of leaders like he cites in his work Vladimir Putin 544 00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:33,000 Speaker 1: in Russia, recept type Air Dagon in Turkey, presidents in Venezuela, Ecuador, 545 00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:37,000 Speaker 1: and Bolivia, who use their power to intimidate journalists and 546 00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:40,120 Speaker 1: make it nearly impossible for them to function. He says, 547 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:43,560 Speaker 1: they're elected, but they're acting as dictators, which is why 548 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:50,239 Speaker 1: he prefers the term democrat taters, democratators, democratators, democrataters. Said 549 00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:52,239 Speaker 1: to me, that just sounds like a potato that I've 550 00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:55,120 Speaker 1: voted for. That's exactly what it is. Would you eat them? 551 00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:58,759 Speaker 1: Sit the new freedom fry democratators. You know, I just 552 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:02,680 Speaker 1: started Fallout four, and they call potatoes taters in their 553 00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:06,080 Speaker 1: tater I think they call them taters. Yeah anyway, Oh 554 00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:08,759 Speaker 1: by the way, yes, yes, I did say Fallout for 555 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,080 Speaker 1: not the new Fallout that just came out. Because I'm 556 00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:15,359 Speaker 1: always one one iteration behind whatever the popular thing is. 557 00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:18,720 Speaker 1: I feel you, man, I'm okay with that. I'm similar. 558 00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,920 Speaker 1: It was ten bucks, so so yeah, anyway, So the 559 00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:27,359 Speaker 1: second source of censorship, at least according to Simon, is 560 00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:32,239 Speaker 1: the big T terrorism, and he cites the beheading of 561 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:36,480 Speaker 1: Daniel Pearl and Karachi as being basically the beginning of 562 00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:41,400 Speaker 1: a trend of turning journalists into very specific, high value 563 00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:46,080 Speaker 1: targets for terrorists or for people who practice terrorism. I 564 00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:47,880 Speaker 1: guess I don't I don't know how to say that correctly. 565 00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:50,279 Speaker 1: But um, also, if you go you just look at 566 00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:54,120 Speaker 1: the Iraq War. It's the deadliest in history for journalists. Uh. 567 00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:56,000 Speaker 1: There are a lot of people on the ground trying 568 00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:59,920 Speaker 1: to cover the war in very dangerous places. And you know, 569 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:04,560 Speaker 1: we hear a lot about the highly targeted droning systems. 570 00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:07,719 Speaker 1: The other you know, uh, the dropping of bonds is 571 00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:12,120 Speaker 1: much more targeted. Now. Well, the Iraq War is the 572 00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:17,960 Speaker 1: deadliest in history. A hundred and fifty killed journalists, percent 573 00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:21,799 Speaker 1: of them were Iraqi journalists, um, and most of whom 574 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:26,680 Speaker 1: were murdered, like murdered, not just they accidentally got killed, 575 00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:31,279 Speaker 1: and their captures were performative. Their captures and executions were performative. 576 00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:36,479 Speaker 1: It became a disturbingly normal part of the media landscape. Yeah, 577 00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:40,879 Speaker 1: similar to the Daniel Pearl event. And then Simon goes 578 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,080 Speaker 1: on to note that he says that he believes the 579 00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:47,200 Speaker 1: third reason is the death of foreign news desks. So 580 00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:49,920 Speaker 1: back in back in the days and the golden days 581 00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:54,520 Speaker 1: of journalism, every large paper of note would have something 582 00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:58,439 Speaker 1: that they would call for news desk. People who had 583 00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:01,880 Speaker 1: the protection of a larger inner national news organization and 584 00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:05,600 Speaker 1: often the implied protection or task the protection of their 585 00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:09,400 Speaker 1: home country, would set up an office wherein they reported 586 00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:13,200 Speaker 1: on regional news in a foreign country. The problem is 587 00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:17,080 Speaker 1: that with so much of independent journalism going down the 588 00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:20,960 Speaker 1: tank in the past few years, these places have closed 589 00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:23,480 Speaker 1: and the only way to get news out falls to 590 00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:27,200 Speaker 1: local reporters doing their best, often with no help or 591 00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:31,040 Speaker 1: protection from a foreign government. Actually the only government around 592 00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,960 Speaker 1: their own often will want them dead. In countries like Mexico, 593 00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:38,920 Speaker 1: the Philippines, Pakistan, local journalists are the target of brutal 594 00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:44,120 Speaker 1: campaigns of intimidation and murder by secret service agents, armed groups. 595 00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:49,120 Speaker 1: This could be just extremist religious or separatist groups, cartels. 596 00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:53,000 Speaker 1: That's another one. And you know, some of these local journalists, 597 00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:56,640 Speaker 1: it's not like they went to school and dedicated their 598 00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:59,880 Speaker 1: lives to be journalists. They might just be on Twitter 599 00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:04,840 Speaker 1: trying to survive because their families are being black bagged 600 00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:10,000 Speaker 1: or disappeared, you know. And the final reason when the 601 00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:14,239 Speaker 1: weirdest ones is the invisible global hand of digital surveillance. 602 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:20,520 Speaker 1: Various countries have gotten closer and closer to perfecting its use, 603 00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:23,919 Speaker 1: but they're everyone's getting better all the time. And it's 604 00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:26,719 Speaker 1: not just the boogeyman you hear about in so much 605 00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,600 Speaker 1: Western media. It's not just China, it's not just I Ran. 606 00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:34,840 Speaker 1: It's also the US, It's also it's also the EU, 607 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:39,719 Speaker 1: it's Israel, it's Japan, it's anyone who can afford it, 608 00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:43,480 Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, Well, and it's crazy too because not 609 00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:45,560 Speaker 1: only do we have in this country things like the 610 00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:48,440 Speaker 1: n s A that they're looking at everything, or at 611 00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:52,520 Speaker 1: least they're tracking everything, keeping notes about it, there is 612 00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:56,400 Speaker 1: also this this very real thing called the search bubble, 613 00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:59,279 Speaker 1: and it's also a news bubble. And it's just the 614 00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:01,600 Speaker 1: thing that in which the place in which we all 615 00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:06,640 Speaker 1: find ourselves where we are almost censoring ourselves. And where 616 00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:11,239 Speaker 1: does this lead us. We've looked at the origins of censorship, 617 00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:15,040 Speaker 1: we've seen some of the modern trends. Now, let's ask 618 00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:26,240 Speaker 1: ourselves about the future after a word from our sponsor. Alright, 619 00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:28,520 Speaker 1: so the badger is out of the bag on this one. 620 00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:33,840 Speaker 1: Humanity's constant, sinister shadow of secrecy and censorship is not 621 00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:36,120 Speaker 1: going away. It is and I want you to hear 622 00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:40,040 Speaker 1: the italics here evolving. We talked about the progression of 623 00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:44,280 Speaker 1: technology all the time. Right now you can tell somebody 624 00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:47,840 Speaker 1: across the world what's happening to you, relatively in real time, 625 00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:51,120 Speaker 1: as long as everything works, and all the pistons are 626 00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:57,360 Speaker 1: firing and sequence, all them satellites, all the the Internet 627 00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:02,359 Speaker 1: tubes are not plugged up. The problem is that this 628 00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:08,200 Speaker 1: technology that allows us to communicate is often created or 629 00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:12,080 Speaker 1: influenced by the same people who create technology to monitor 630 00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:15,920 Speaker 1: this sort of stuff, censorship technology, and it only spreads 631 00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:19,719 Speaker 1: the fuel of these practices. New tech is giving governments 632 00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:23,680 Speaker 1: the ability to more selectively censor online materials. This is 633 00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:25,600 Speaker 1: the stuff they don't want you to know about. This. 634 00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:29,680 Speaker 1: This is where it gets spooky, because we see several 635 00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:34,200 Speaker 1: factors converging to make a perfect storm. The private tech 636 00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:39,200 Speaker 1: sector is merging. It's increasingly monopolistic, you know what I mean. 637 00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:46,800 Speaker 1: The giants of the tech industry, alphae Google, its owner alphabet, Amazon, Facebook, 638 00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:52,600 Speaker 1: so on, mean that there are fewer hubs of information transmission. Essentially, 639 00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:55,880 Speaker 1: this means there's a smaller group of people at the wheel. 640 00:42:56,520 --> 00:43:01,640 Speaker 1: And this is um what Bowski would call not cool, man, 641 00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:06,000 Speaker 1: it's problematic, Yeah, because it means they're a private company. 642 00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:08,360 Speaker 1: A private company does not have a ton of laws 643 00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:12,120 Speaker 1: telling it what it can or cannot show you, what 644 00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:14,920 Speaker 1: it can or cannot prevent you from seeing, or what 645 00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:18,560 Speaker 1: it can and cannot do to influence how you how 646 00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:22,680 Speaker 1: you interact online. Older media companies, it's no secret if 647 00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:25,240 Speaker 1: you're longtime listener to the show that older media companies 648 00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:29,440 Speaker 1: like newspapers mainstream television have often worked in secret with 649 00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:35,320 Speaker 1: intelligence agencies to censor some stories or completely ignore them, 650 00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:38,600 Speaker 1: especially in war time, especially in wartime, yeah, or in 651 00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:42,520 Speaker 1: times a great public crisis like the JFK assassination, or 652 00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:45,319 Speaker 1: they've been handed talking points and told to just sort 653 00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:50,839 Speaker 1: of riff on those. But new media agencies seem much 654 00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:55,839 Speaker 1: more comfortable with pursuing their own enigmatic goals. Yeah, I mean, 655 00:43:56,840 --> 00:43:59,320 Speaker 1: let's look at let's look at him, just because we 656 00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:02,040 Speaker 1: kind of have to this alright, But no shirtless pictures 657 00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:05,919 Speaker 1: old a j Alex Jones, he's been he's been making 658 00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:09,040 Speaker 1: the airwaves again even since he's not been on him 659 00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:11,839 Speaker 1: so much. Um, you don't. You don't have to agree 660 00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:13,840 Speaker 1: with this guy at all. You don't have to even 661 00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:16,600 Speaker 1: like him at all. You don't have to be a 662 00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:19,040 Speaker 1: fan in any way. But you look at the fall 663 00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:23,120 Speaker 1: of Alex Jones as an example of this. There were 664 00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:28,239 Speaker 1: some private industry companies who just decided, not necessarily out 665 00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:31,600 Speaker 1: of the blue, let's say there there were circumstances that 666 00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:34,840 Speaker 1: were building and building, but either way, a couple of 667 00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:38,640 Speaker 1: these private industries decided that he can't play on the 668 00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:41,920 Speaker 1: on in their sandbox, they can't play on their platforms anymore. 669 00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:45,240 Speaker 1: He's done, and all of a sudden he was finished 670 00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:48,560 Speaker 1: or is mostly finished. And that's totally within their right. 671 00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:51,840 Speaker 1: They are a private company. They built the sandbox. He 672 00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:57,920 Speaker 1: they had valid reasons for in their in their opinion, 673 00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:02,720 Speaker 1: for shutting down his access to his audience. But it worked. 674 00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:04,759 Speaker 1: And it's not like there was a trial. There was 675 00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:06,880 Speaker 1: maybe a trial of public opinion, you could call it, 676 00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:10,799 Speaker 1: but it's not like he went to Twitter court. Don't 677 00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:15,880 Speaker 1: don't but take the financial motivation these companies have to 678 00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:19,800 Speaker 1: make you a pain participant. For instance, Pain isn't giving 679 00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:22,919 Speaker 1: them cash in addition to your personal data which they're 680 00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:26,799 Speaker 1: already using. You know, if you have a small business 681 00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:31,920 Speaker 1: or you have um news that pertains to something Facebook 682 00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:34,320 Speaker 1: doesn't want people to see, for instance, you have to 683 00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:36,640 Speaker 1: you would have to make it a sponsored post, right, 684 00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:39,960 Speaker 1: you have to be incentivized to pay to play environment 685 00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:44,440 Speaker 1: And for their part, that works because they're not a 686 00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:50,360 Speaker 1: news agency, They're not ethically charged to correctly report things. 687 00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:55,719 Speaker 1: And additionally, there is one or more frightening parts. Censorship 688 00:45:55,920 --> 00:46:02,600 Speaker 1: is becoming increasingly invisible. Forget all those old printed out 689 00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:07,200 Speaker 1: paper documents and fassimile copies with the black and white 690 00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:11,960 Speaker 1: text and the black sharpie marker redacting paragraphs and paragraphs. 691 00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:16,080 Speaker 1: Nowadays you might just not see a band web page, 692 00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:18,160 Speaker 1: or you might just go to your kindle one day 693 00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:20,960 Speaker 1: and a book is vanished, or you might find that, 694 00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:24,480 Speaker 1: like the Maya Codices, certain parts of digital history or 695 00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:28,960 Speaker 1: being erased under your nose. Wikipedia is completely different on 696 00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:31,440 Speaker 1: this page today for some reason. I don't remember what 697 00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:34,239 Speaker 1: was taken out, but I'm not sure. It just looks 698 00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:37,000 Speaker 1: different and there's nothing showing up on the history. Oh yeah, 699 00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:40,400 Speaker 1: there are information wars going on in Wikipedia. If you 700 00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:42,640 Speaker 1: ever have the time, go to some topic you think 701 00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:45,799 Speaker 1: might be controversial. Instead of reading the article, click on 702 00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:50,600 Speaker 1: the talk tab and you will see these long, bitter 703 00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:55,200 Speaker 1: things oftentimes by especially in geopolitical things, oftentimes by front 704 00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:59,520 Speaker 1: groups posing as individuals, which is insane. No, I know, 705 00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:04,720 Speaker 1: just the Middle East alone, but in some countries people 706 00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:08,080 Speaker 1: only learned that their social media activities monitor when they 707 00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:10,840 Speaker 1: were detained or arrested for a political comment or a 708 00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:15,399 Speaker 1: snarky joke. And we found a we found a fascinating 709 00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:18,360 Speaker 1: map that I'd like to maybe share on our website 710 00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:21,520 Speaker 1: or our Facebook page. Here's where it gets crazy. Did 711 00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:24,160 Speaker 1: you see that thing? Yeah, so make sure you're on 712 00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:29,839 Speaker 1: Facebook check it out. A little bit of double think there. 713 00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:33,840 Speaker 1: So these factors that we just named, increasing government surveillance 714 00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:38,200 Speaker 1: and then uh, increasing inequality of power, distribution of power 715 00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:42,000 Speaker 1: in the private sector coalesced to create something that might 716 00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:45,680 Speaker 1: have sounded insane just a few years ago. Imagine not 717 00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:51,800 Speaker 1: a worldwide web, but a splintered internet world partially worldwide webs, 718 00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:55,600 Speaker 1: three of them. They're divided in the three spheres, the US, China, 719 00:47:55,719 --> 00:48:00,359 Speaker 1: and the European Union. Yeah, and if you look at 720 00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:03,960 Speaker 1: each of these individually, you would note probably at least 721 00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:07,400 Speaker 1: that the US has They're they're the big player here. 722 00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:10,600 Speaker 1: They have the big guns because they arguably and did 723 00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:14,680 Speaker 1: invent the Internet with Arbinnet. We've discussed not that long ago, 724 00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:17,680 Speaker 1: and a large percent of the private companies that actually 725 00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:21,480 Speaker 1: control large swaths of the Internet, how to access the Internet, 726 00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:25,360 Speaker 1: how information is shared to other human beings. We we 727 00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:28,520 Speaker 1: control that here, or at least individuals and private companies do. 728 00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:32,239 Speaker 1: And at least for now, that's how it's that's how 729 00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:36,239 Speaker 1: things stand. But things are changing pretty rapidly in the 730 00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:39,319 Speaker 1: world when it when it comes to the powers of 731 00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:45,600 Speaker 1: the Internet. And here's the thing. In this country, I 732 00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:47,719 Speaker 1: don't think you can have a blanket statement as in 733 00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:51,560 Speaker 1: these companies are compliant with old Uncle Sam when he 734 00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:55,319 Speaker 1: rolls through and has requests. But we have seen numerous 735 00:48:55,560 --> 00:49:00,240 Speaker 1: within the hundreds of cases where there have been companies 736 00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:02,960 Speaker 1: who have been compliant with the government coming through and 737 00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:05,919 Speaker 1: asking for information. Doesn't mean they're giving. These companies would 738 00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:10,000 Speaker 1: give all of the information, but perhaps parts of a 739 00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:14,360 Speaker 1: user or certain posts or things to that nature. Yeah, 740 00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:17,520 Speaker 1: And in the US, at least and arguably in the world, 741 00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:20,480 Speaker 1: the great balance between state and corporate powers swinging in 742 00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:25,480 Speaker 1: favor of the corporation over time, over time. And I 743 00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:28,440 Speaker 1: am convinced this is true. You can call it my opinion, 744 00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:30,960 Speaker 1: but I am convinced it's true. We've talked about this before. 745 00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:35,160 Speaker 1: You you've predicted that there will be a corporation running 746 00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:39,480 Speaker 1: for the presidency within our lifetime. Maybe not the presidency 747 00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:44,080 Speaker 1: of this country, but yeah, sure, And then I'm sure 748 00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:46,800 Speaker 1: there will be people who are I'm sure some of 749 00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:51,680 Speaker 1: us listening now are thinking, well, aren't presidents kind of 750 00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:55,960 Speaker 1: already at least as sponsored as NASCAR drivers? I mean, 751 00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:59,640 Speaker 1: shouldn't they have to wear patches at least the NASCAR guys, are, 752 00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:04,280 Speaker 1: you know, pretty open about it. Robin Williams, Man, Robin Williams. 753 00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:06,600 Speaker 1: The last time I saw him on tour, well, I 754 00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:08,920 Speaker 1: think it was the self Weapons of self Destruction. I 755 00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:10,759 Speaker 1: think he had an awesome bit on that. It's like 756 00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:15,759 Speaker 1: beautiful like imagery of just that. Oh all right, But 757 00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:17,920 Speaker 1: I think he stole from someone else because he did 758 00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:20,520 Speaker 1: that a lot unfort Oh yeah he did. I remember 759 00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:22,719 Speaker 1: we were talking about that off air. But maybe he 760 00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:26,160 Speaker 1: didn't do it on purpose exactly you gotta gotta give 761 00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:29,200 Speaker 1: benefit of the doubt. But that that image I think 762 00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:35,759 Speaker 1: is unfortunately salient. It's real. It's just like the jackets 763 00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:39,120 Speaker 1: with all the sponsors. We have campaign systems set up 764 00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:42,160 Speaker 1: to reinforce that, at least again in the US, but 765 00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:46,080 Speaker 1: maybe it's different in foreign governments. In two thousand ten, 766 00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:49,640 Speaker 1: Google shut down its operations in China after they learned 767 00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:52,759 Speaker 1: that the Chinese government had been hacking Gmail accounts of dissidence, 768 00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:57,000 Speaker 1: surveilling them through the search engines to uh find what 769 00:50:57,040 --> 00:50:59,799 Speaker 1: they liked and censor that if it's a communication hub 770 00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:02,440 Speaker 1: or to you know, I guess the euphemism would be 771 00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:06,839 Speaker 1: permanently censor the dissidents. So they shut down two thousand ten. 772 00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:10,480 Speaker 1: Later this year, we the American public learned that Google 773 00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:12,880 Speaker 1: have been working on a new search engine for China. 774 00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:16,200 Speaker 1: It's called Dragonfly. It's not called Chrome. The reason it's 775 00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:20,040 Speaker 1: different from Dragonfly is that it incorporates all these surveillance 776 00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:26,120 Speaker 1: desires of the Chinese government, and Google's internal documents don't 777 00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:28,840 Speaker 1: support what they say publicly about it, which is a shame. 778 00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:32,799 Speaker 1: And there's been outcry. Yeah, there's been a lot of protesting. 779 00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:37,080 Speaker 1: Employees at Google lately. Yeah. Yeah, they're smart kids. They 780 00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:39,799 Speaker 1: know what's up. And this means what we're looking at 781 00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:44,000 Speaker 1: as all these factors converge is a new censorship war 782 00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:47,719 Speaker 1: on the horizon, a new evolution in the paradigm of 783 00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:51,640 Speaker 1: forced silence. And while it may start in a corporate 784 00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:56,080 Speaker 1: boardroom or in a DC lobbyists lunch meeting, it will 785 00:51:56,120 --> 00:52:00,560 Speaker 1: expand to reach you. It will expand to reach yours television, 786 00:52:00,680 --> 00:52:04,520 Speaker 1: your news, your laptop, your tablet, and your phone. This 787 00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:08,040 Speaker 1: means that unless you go completely off the grid, you 788 00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:12,480 Speaker 1: are going to be affected. It is not it's not 789 00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:17,000 Speaker 1: a drill, it's not a hypothetical thing. It is already happening. 790 00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:20,800 Speaker 1: Is happening to you. In fact, you may be interested 791 00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:26,799 Speaker 1: to know exactly how this continues. So this be sold. 792 00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:34,160 Speaker 1: So there you have it. Wow, I think we have 793 00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:37,480 Speaker 1: to end the show here. Let's at least um, let's 794 00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:40,680 Speaker 1: at least talk about some questions that we have. Oh, 795 00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:43,480 Speaker 1: by the way, before you even get two questions, they 796 00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:49,160 Speaker 1: killed Socrates, Yeah, for censorship. Yeah, they killed so creates. Yeah, 797 00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:53,400 Speaker 1: so creates. That's a call back to Steve Martin, one 798 00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:55,960 Speaker 1: of my favorite comedians. I'm just doing that today. I 799 00:52:56,000 --> 00:53:00,600 Speaker 1: don't know why, because this censorship has been so important. 800 00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:03,319 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna go on a mini soapbox here. Censorship 801 00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:07,200 Speaker 1: has had such an effect on on free thought, and 802 00:53:07,239 --> 00:53:10,600 Speaker 1: that's really what it's about. It's about other people wanting 803 00:53:10,640 --> 00:53:13,440 Speaker 1: you to think a certain way and not have other 804 00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:18,000 Speaker 1: thought viruses enter your mind. Thank you, Grant Morrison. And 805 00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:21,840 Speaker 1: it's it's it's terrifying to think that there are powerful 806 00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:24,920 Speaker 1: forces active at this very moment that want to control 807 00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:28,920 Speaker 1: your thoughts. That freaks me out. And they've been the 808 00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:33,600 Speaker 1: same not the same people, but these same um mechanisms 809 00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:37,840 Speaker 1: have been attempting to control human thought for for thousands 810 00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:41,879 Speaker 1: of years. And we have to fight against it. I think, 811 00:53:42,719 --> 00:53:44,799 Speaker 1: I think, I think we do. And the way you 812 00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:48,440 Speaker 1: fight against it is just talk, have an open mind, 813 00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:53,320 Speaker 1: have free thoughts, and uh, talk to your fellow human 814 00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:56,040 Speaker 1: beings around us and dogs and cats and other other 815 00:53:56,120 --> 00:54:00,960 Speaker 1: animals that are willing to listen. Yes, But that that 816 00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:04,239 Speaker 1: goes to the question then too, what what is the 817 00:54:04,680 --> 00:54:08,799 Speaker 1: line what should or should not be censored? Right? Ah see, 818 00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:10,880 Speaker 1: then that you're gonna into some of that morality stuff. 819 00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:14,160 Speaker 1: We're getting into morality stuff. We're also asking ourselves what 820 00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:19,760 Speaker 1: things are age appropriate for people? Right? Uh? What things 821 00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:25,320 Speaker 1: are necessary for a country to function? You know. Um, 822 00:54:25,360 --> 00:54:28,759 Speaker 1: I mean that's the toughest part about this, right. Yeah, 823 00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:30,880 Speaker 1: you got to have free thought, but you've got to 824 00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:36,239 Speaker 1: have humans that if they're not that nice or they're 825 00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:38,960 Speaker 1: not even let's say, I don't want to say that smart, 826 00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:41,080 Speaker 1: but if you've got to be able to have some 827 00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:46,279 Speaker 1: kind of control mechanisms for just societal norms, or do you? 828 00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:51,080 Speaker 1: And that's where we will leave it today. This is 829 00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:54,280 Speaker 1: not the end of the episode. This is the part 830 00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:57,680 Speaker 1: where we leave the podcast studio and wait to hear 831 00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:00,799 Speaker 1: from you. We want to hear your responses. You are 832 00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:05,719 Speaker 1: the ultimate arbiters of where this goes. So find us 833 00:55:05,719 --> 00:55:10,759 Speaker 1: on Facebook and Twitter and Instagram, also by Facebook. Um, 834 00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:12,600 Speaker 1: find us in all the places, most of them. We 835 00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:16,520 Speaker 1: are conspiracy stuff sometimes conspiracy stuff show If you don't 836 00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:18,799 Speaker 1: want to use social media and you want to call 837 00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:21,920 Speaker 1: us with your voice where it can be recorded, because 838 00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:25,359 Speaker 1: we record your voice. If you call us, you could 839 00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:30,080 Speaker 1: reach us one eight st d W y t K. 840 00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:34,840 Speaker 1: And if phones make you nervous, there's one reliable, old 841 00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:38,319 Speaker 1: fashioned way to contact us. Old fashioned nowadays you can 842 00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:41,600 Speaker 1: email us directly. We are conspiracy at how stuff works 843 00:55:41,640 --> 00:56:00,279 Speaker 1: dot com. Two