Speaker 1: First of all, you don't know me well.
Speaker 2: All about that high school drama, Girl Drama, Girl, all
Speaker 2: about them high school Queens will take you for a ride,
Speaker 2: and our comic girl sharing for the Righteen Drama Queens,
Speaker 2: Jamie's my girl girl Fashion, but your tough girl.
Speaker 3: You could sit with us Girl Drama, Queens Drama, Queens Drama,
Speaker 3: Queens Drama, drahn MC Queens Drama Queens.
Speaker 4: Well, Hillary, you want to bring us in?
Speaker 1: Oh my god, yes, guys. It is episode twenty four
Speaker 1: of season six, Remember Me as a Time of Day
Speaker 1: Air date May eighteenth, two thousand and nine. Uh, Nathan, Nathan.
Speaker 1: I just loved Haley and Nathan. This episode, he is
Speaker 1: released from the Chiefs and is forced to face Haley
Speaker 1: and Jamie. That's a that's a that's a bit miss Yeah.
Speaker 1: On the eve of Peyton's delivery, Lucas and Peyton receive
Speaker 1: us prize visit from Karen. This synopsis is wrote this
Speaker 1: too short. This synopsis doesn't want you to know any spoilers,
Speaker 1: but we're gonna give them to you anyway.
Speaker 5: I'm like, shouldn't they say the night of Peyton and
Speaker 5: Lucas's wedding not the eve of her delivery. What like
Speaker 5: it was planned?
Speaker 4: Yeah, the uh, the imminent delivery.
Speaker 1: It's a really dark teaser emergency delivery. Yeah, big episode,
Speaker 1: but big episode for everybody. I thought like this felt
Speaker 1: like a two hour special. It really did.
Speaker 4: Yeah, every single character got a wrap up, including people
Speaker 4: we haven't seen in a long time. Yeah, no, am
Speaker 4: I wrong? You're like, well, you're like, you're nod in
Speaker 4: your head, what do you mean?
Speaker 5: No, I agree.
Speaker 4: Yeah, there were people that didn't get wrapped up. Did
Speaker 4: I miss anybody?
Speaker 1: Well, we didn't see skills. Oh, shoot, that's it. Yes,
Speaker 1: he got kind of a nice wrap up in the
Speaker 1: last episode with Miss Lauren, like we knew that they
Speaker 1: were on a path. Yeah, this kind of set out
Speaker 1: the future of the show, knowing that everyone's on their
Speaker 1: path and everyone seems partnered up in a really healthy,
Speaker 1: happy way, and that is a feel good thing. I
Speaker 1: know that a lot of fans have said this felt
Speaker 1: like a series finale instead of a season finale, and
Speaker 1: it really I hadn't thought of it that way.
Speaker 4: It was not on purpose.
Speaker 1: We knew we were coming back, and it aren't even
Speaker 1: announcedream were coming back that one season. We didn't need
Speaker 1: a season finale or a series finale was the one
Speaker 1: we got one.
Speaker 5: It almost felt like they'd written this, like they'd decided
Speaker 5: what the end of the show was going to be. Yeah,
Speaker 5: and then in six twenty one when we got the
Speaker 5: pick up, they were like, well, it's honestly a really
Speaker 5: good script, so.
Speaker 1: Still a good episode.
Speaker 4: Just leave it alone, you know, the same thing I
Speaker 4: was thinking. Absolutely, But it worked. I loved that, and
Speaker 4: also it gave it as a place to I mean,
Speaker 4: we did it the first time after for years to
Speaker 4: come back. There was a wrap up, and then we
Speaker 4: came back not quite knowing what to expect in the
Speaker 4: next new phase of these characters' lives, and so especially
Speaker 4: knowing that you and Chad were leaving, I think they
Speaker 4: had to do something that was going to give viewers
Speaker 4: a sense of closure and feeling like this whole chapter
Speaker 4: is wrapped up, So we're going to start something new,
Speaker 4: but it has to be able to feel new without
Speaker 4: all these lingering issues.
Speaker 1: Well, sometimes when a show has been on as long
Speaker 1: as ours was, no cliffhanger is a cliffhanger, right, People
Speaker 1: are so used to like, is Dan Scott dead? Who
Speaker 1: lit the fire? You know, people are so used to
Speaker 1: being teased in that way that when there's no teas
Speaker 1: it makes you suspicious. You're like, when's the other shoe
Speaker 1: get a job? Yeah, everybody's too, what's going on? It's
Speaker 1: all been a dream? Everyone's dead. Dan Scott had a point.
Speaker 1: This is hell, Oh Dan Scott even he got closure
Speaker 1: with Whitey. What a romance there.
Speaker 4: I ah not expecting that circle moment. So much about
Speaker 4: this episode that I completely forgot no recollection of this
Speaker 4: so much, I have so many notes.
Speaker 1: I vividly remember the very first thing we see when
Speaker 1: Chad carried me into the hospital and that shot kisses
Speaker 1: Peyton's arm. It happens in a blink, and I had
Speaker 1: completely like forgotten about it until I watched it in
Speaker 1: the episode and just had the muscle memory of Chad
Speaker 1: doing that and being I couldn't react because I'm like comatose, right,
Speaker 1: but being so choked up that his immediate reaction was
Speaker 1: to kiss anybody part of mine that he could reach
Speaker 1: because it might be the last time he gets to
Speaker 1: do that. Like that's still I'm still choked up, Like
Speaker 1: it was such a it was a good instinct for him,
Speaker 1: and I don't know if people even clock it, but
Speaker 1: yeah I did, because it's also a weird thing when
Speaker 1: someone kisses you like close to your armpit. It's not
Speaker 1: like a natural not a natural spot. But I thought
Speaker 1: it was such a sincere gesture. I liked it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, when Chad shows up, he shows up, and he
Speaker 4: showed up in this episode. His performance was really beautiful.
Speaker 5: It's it's also so interesting to realize how much, to
Speaker 5: your point, some of the stuff from this episode stuck.
Speaker 1: With all of us.
Speaker 5: Like when we were watching six twenty three, I was like, well,
Speaker 5: where's the shot of you bleeding in the drag? Like
Speaker 5: I've never seen it? How dare they edit this for streaming?
Speaker 5: And then I was like, oh, there it is. Wow,
Speaker 5: that's really burned into my brain in a way, Like
Speaker 5: there's so many things that that stick. And I think
Speaker 5: it is to your point, it's because people really showed
Speaker 5: up and because they wrote this. Sure, it's kind of
Speaker 5: a wrap up, but it's like, really it's emotional wish
Speaker 5: fulfillment and you've wanted these people to have their dreams
Speaker 5: come true for six years. And I mean I cried
Speaker 5: through the entire episode. Yeah, and I thought I just
Speaker 5: thought every single thing worked like from War Sweater being
Speaker 5: the first song with that haunting like violin string and
Speaker 5: just all of it, like it starts in this really emotional,
Speaker 5: terrifying place and then as everything begins to grow happier
Speaker 5: and you see this payoff, like I don't know, it
Speaker 5: flowed in a way. The whole episode felt like music
Speaker 5: to me. It was really special to watch it again.
Speaker 1: It was a lot of montage, you know, the montage
Speaker 1: at the beginning where we're seeing everyone in places of
Speaker 1: loneliness or peril or darkness. That is a different way
Speaker 1: to start an episode. Hold on and I just everything
Speaker 1: was working for me until they go to gas Peyton
Speaker 1: and she opens her eyes and it turned into a
Speaker 1: horror movie where it fell like the Twilight Zone. They
Speaker 1: were like coming to me with the mask and hooking
Speaker 1: on my arms and shit, and that was It was
Speaker 1: not a fun day at work, but it was funny
Speaker 1: to watch because it just went from being like everyone's sad,
Speaker 1: try Hill, We're all really emo, to wait a second,
Speaker 1: is this a horror movie? Like what's so funny?
Speaker 4: Eat Hillary Mine. I have in my notes what a
Speaker 4: great moment that was for you. The because it's so
Speaker 4: easy to overact and make it feel like a horror
Speaker 4: movie where your eyes go wide.
Speaker 1: And you're like, oh, all these things are coming to me.
Speaker 4: And the camera's shot that the doctor's hands coming out
Speaker 4: your face and all that. It's a very it was
Speaker 4: a very horror movie shot. But because of the expression
Speaker 4: on your face, because you didn't overact, you were completely
Speaker 4: there still and all you did was look around with
Speaker 4: this innocent like days, it was really good because you
Speaker 4: could have overacted it. I mean anybody could have just
Speaker 4: you know, open up your eyes wide and look scared.
Speaker 4: That's easy to do. But you didn't, and so I
Speaker 4: bought it, and it's in my notes. I was like,
Speaker 4: that was a really well done moment for.
Speaker 1: You, guys. How do we feel about the O R
Speaker 1: viewing room?
Speaker 5: In my notes in all caps, they would never allow
Speaker 5: him in the operating gallery.
Speaker 1: They would never let us watch you have a C section, guys.
Speaker 1: I said this on set that day. Yeah, we all
Speaker 1: were like what are we doing?
Speaker 5: And they didn't care. They were like, it's emotional. We
Speaker 5: were like sure, or it's gonna be the thing that
Speaker 5: ruins the emotion because everyone watching the show is going
Speaker 5: to be like, well, that's fucking stupid.
Speaker 1: I have never been to a hospital at all with
Speaker 1: like a I don't know it's operating Galla orange? Yeah,
Speaker 1: is that the green room up there? Is that just snack? Well?
Speaker 4: What made it even funnier was that they cut the
Speaker 4: glass out. Do you remember that they had the glass
Speaker 4: up and they got us all in there, and they
Speaker 4: tried forever to get the setup right so that they
Speaker 4: could get all of us in the shot and not
Speaker 4: have reflections of the camera, and finally they were just like,
Speaker 4: pull the glass out, and then we were really like, oh,
Speaker 4: come on, you can just see straight through it.
Speaker 1: Lucas's hands were you guys, It's like Evita for me.
Speaker 1: I I enjoyed that. I mean it was funny and
Speaker 1: totally unbelievable. But also, you know in tree Hill, anytime
Speaker 1: something bad happens to you, there has to be an audience,
Speaker 1: and I you know, everybody else gets hurt on a
Speaker 1: basketball court or out on the street in front of everybody,
Speaker 1: Payne just gets hurt in her house. So we had
Speaker 1: to invite the audience in. We had to bring everybody
Speaker 1: to her. But we shot the episode totally backwards, so
Speaker 1: that actually was the last thing we shot, and we
Speaker 1: shot all the happy ship first.
Speaker 4: Oh that's why you were saying you were covered in
Speaker 4: blood on your last day.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean we shot all the happy stuff first.
Speaker 1: So the day that we drove off into the sunset
Speaker 1: was what we shot first. Oh, a motorcycle gang just
Speaker 1: drove by. Oh hello boys. It's all like seventy year
Speaker 1: old dudes. So we were out on the street and
Speaker 1: there's like a viral video that's going around on Instagram
Speaker 1: right now of Chad talking to fans and they're all like,
Speaker 1: are you coming back next year and he's like, no,
Speaker 1: they don't want me back. They're not going to pay me.
Speaker 1: And it was from that day because we were out
Speaker 1: on the street and there's this huge crowd and they're like, Chad,
Speaker 1: we love Lucas, blah blah. And that surreal moment of
Speaker 1: my character's beloved, I've done my job, I've shown up,
Speaker 1: and this like you know, this mess is still happening
Speaker 1: was very weird. And so Chad made that comment and
Speaker 1: I don't know that he knew a fan was getting
Speaker 1: it on camera. But then then we were in trouble
Speaker 1: for spoiling the end of the show. I mean it
Speaker 1: was just a comedy of errors. But the baby smiled
Speaker 1: and everyone knew that was magic. So we only had
Speaker 1: to do it like two times because they were like,
Speaker 1: well we got it that shot again. Yeah, yeah, Yeah.
Speaker 1: It was a weird. It was just a weird experience.
Speaker 5: Well, it was also like sort of surreal to me
Speaker 5: because the song over the end is can't you See
Speaker 5: And in the moment where you guys drive away and
Speaker 5: it goes up into that big beautiful crane shot, the
Speaker 5: lyric that plays over the car beginning to move is
Speaker 5: Ain't Never coming back?
Speaker 1: And I was like, I didn't catch that. It like it.
Speaker 5: It made me jump when I heard it, and I
Speaker 5: was like, that feels really surreal that that was the
Speaker 5: moment of the sink And I was like, was that
Speaker 5: on purpose? Did that just happen? I don't know, it was.
Speaker 5: It was bizarre. So to hear that not only the
Speaker 5: scene feels bizarre to watch, but that it was so
Speaker 5: bizarre irl is interesting.
Speaker 1: Well, and for people at home, our boss wrote and
Speaker 1: directed this episode, so for all of the trauma of
Speaker 1: the latter, it was like two months of weirdness at
Speaker 1: the end there then like your grand finale, your final
Speaker 1: exit is with the person who was at the epicenter
Speaker 1: of just making this awful. There was no getting around it,
Speaker 1: and so maybe that's why I'm kind of I've got
Speaker 1: some gallows humor about it, because that was the only
Speaker 1: way to function, just like, okay, cool, kill me, now
Speaker 1: kill me. It'll be fine. I'm gonna be great. I
Speaker 1: felt like Dan Scott in the episode, honestly, yea, and
Speaker 1: Dan is so great in this because it's just like,
Speaker 1: I don't know where this went sideways. I'm gonna I'll
Speaker 1: try to go all the way back. I'll try to
Speaker 1: look as far back as humanly possible to see where
Speaker 1: I'm at fault here. And yeah, I liked that we
Speaker 1: got to see Whitey again.
Speaker 5: I loved that moment.
Speaker 4: I needed that visual break from Tree Hill to go
Speaker 4: out on a ranch, a random ranch house somewhere and
Speaker 4: see Mary walking around to the horse in the wood
Speaker 4: paneled home and old vintage couch fabric. There was something
Speaker 4: about that that was a really nice break that helped
Speaker 4: me continue to feel the flow of everybody else's storylines
Speaker 4: rather than it feeling all blending into one. I was
Speaker 4: so surprised to see Whitey did not remember that Dan
Speaker 4: goes back to him.
Speaker 5: I didn't either. I thought it was such a cool
Speaker 5: choice though, Oh so great.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And like you're saying, Hillary, going all the way
Speaker 4: back to the beginning, He's like, what's the moment that
Speaker 4: it had to have been before then? In real life? Obviously,
Speaker 4: in real life, in the real life park of Dan
Speaker 4: and whatever, you know, like it had real life and yeah,
Speaker 4: dance made up for life. It had to actually go
Speaker 4: back further than that. But the moment where he says
Speaker 4: he's talking about everybody having these new moments in their life,
Speaker 4: and he says, and I don't get to feel those moments.
Speaker 4: It really struck me about how somebody grows into a
Speaker 4: place where you can't. It's not that people are cutting
Speaker 4: you out of feeling those moments. I mean they are,
Speaker 4: but also you're incapable even if they let you in.
Speaker 4: You can't allow yourself to feel it because of all
Speaker 4: the things that you've done in your life to lead
Speaker 4: you that place. And Whitey comes in with this line
Speaker 4: and you created that Danny, Oh got me.
Speaker 1: That was a weird line to me though, because he's
Speaker 1: just spent all this quality time with Jamie and so
Speaker 1: I didn't understand if he was saying, I don't feel
Speaker 1: anything when I get to experience that because Haley and
Speaker 1: Nathan have let him in, they have let him be
Speaker 1: with Jamie. He has spent a huge part of that
Speaker 1: kid's life, and I was like it was a weird
Speaker 1: thing to kind of minimize that, considering how important it
Speaker 1: has been to Dan. Dan's also kind of grandiose, though,
Speaker 1: and when he's feeling sorry for himself everything's wrong, when
Speaker 1: really he still has a beautiful beach house like you, Dan.
Speaker 4: You know, I think it's true that he has trouble
Speaker 4: feeling it like I think he wants to. But it
Speaker 4: makes sense to me that he would even have access
Speaker 4: to some of these things, like a relationship with his
Speaker 4: grandson and still feel like I can't feel what I'm
Speaker 4: supposed to feel here because I'm blocked because I don't
Speaker 4: believe I deserve it because I've done all these shitty things.
Speaker 4: People are complex, and I.
Speaker 5: Think there's something interesting too about particularly when you think
Speaker 5: about what he says to Peyton when he says, she's
Speaker 5: the only one in my life who doesn't know what
Speaker 5: I've done, because now even Jamie knows. And I wonder
Speaker 5: if for him. What he's trying to acknowledge and you
Speaker 5: know what the writers didn't say, but it is that maybe,
Speaker 5: like being with Jamie is hard because he gets just
Speaker 5: a touch, like just a taste. He gets to hold
Speaker 5: Sawyer for just a moment before you take her back,
Speaker 5: and I could see how much it affected you to
Speaker 5: see him with her. And I wonder if what he's
Speaker 5: trying to say is that no matter what he knows,
Speaker 5: he's on the outside.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Boys, his sons won't talk.
Speaker 5: To him, like maybe the kid will, but nobody really
Speaker 5: lets him in their adult lives.
Speaker 1: In a meaningful way.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and you know, Nathan walking around him to go
Speaker 5: be with Whitey, all of it. It's such an interesting
Speaker 5: thing because hell for Dan Scott is accountability. Yeah, he's
Speaker 5: on the outside because he's being held accountable for his
Speaker 5: actions and it is so painful for him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 4: It's like that's what shame does. It stops you from
Speaker 4: being able to really enjoy the good things because it's
Speaker 4: just you have to kind of cut yourself off from
Speaker 4: it because the stakes are too high. You built up
Speaker 4: too much, so you either have to double down or
Speaker 4: you can ask for forgiveness. And try and forgive yourself.
Speaker 4: But it's painful to do that. And when with somebody
Speaker 4: like Dan who's done so many clearly morally objectionable, questionable
Speaker 4: wrong things. Yeah, the level of shame, like how do
Speaker 4: you how do you move past that?
Speaker 1: Don't you love them? Both Scott boys on the same day,
Speaker 1: in the same hour went to their coach, Like Nathan
Speaker 1: goes to his coach to deliver some amazing news and
Speaker 1: Dan goes to his coach to ask him to kill him.
Speaker 1: You know, like the role of mentors in a person's life,
Speaker 1: it's really important. And and Whitey having removed himself from
Speaker 1: Tree Hill, you know, he used to live in a
Speaker 1: house a couple of doors down from Lucas Scott because
Speaker 1: he went Lucas's house, Whitey's house, Jake Jigelski's house when
Speaker 1: we were filming in that area. Yeah, he's now lived
Speaker 1: his best cowboy life.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 5: They really let Barry be Barry did those ties last forever?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 1: And we see our boys coaching basketball now and wonder
Speaker 1: you know, Nathan goes to Quentin's grave. Those are the legacies.
Speaker 1: It's not blood, it's not family, it's it's that genuine
Speaker 1: care that you choose, and Whitey still is coaching Dan.
Speaker 1: He's coaching Dan through the self loathing even though he
Speaker 1: hates this, dude, just love it.
Speaker 5: It's also a really interesting thing too. We're having all
Speaker 5: these meditations on family in this episode and what family
Speaker 5: and future looks like to people, and you know, is
Speaker 5: it everything you always dreamed? And Dan struggles with this
Speaker 5: idea that one of his sons has just had a
Speaker 5: baby and he knows he won't be in their life,
Speaker 5: so he goes to the only father figure he ever
Speaker 5: really had, which is Whitey.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And.
Speaker 5: What a wild thing it must be for him to
Speaker 5: realize that his boys feel the same, that Whitey was
Speaker 5: much more a father figure to them, oh than Dan
Speaker 5: ever was.
Speaker 1: Wow, we needed more of Whitey this season.
Speaker 5: We really did.
Speaker 4: Also, like, Whitey didn't choose that. It's so like just
Speaker 4: in piggybacking off of what you're saying, too, Hillary, because
Speaker 4: he didn't choose that. He's like, I'm sure he was
Speaker 4: not in the mood to mentor and be held account
Speaker 4: holding this jackass accountable for the rest of his life
Speaker 4: in town.
Speaker 1: Yeah, constantly coached him at fifteen years old. He's like,
Speaker 1: I got to do with Danny for how long?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 4: But it's amazing how life does that, just keeps weaving
Speaker 4: people together, kept putting Whitey in his path and Dan
Speaker 4: and his Oh man, it's good storytelling, guys. It is.
Speaker 1: There should have been a trigger warning on this ideation,
Speaker 1: the suicide bit, because you know, we've seen Nathan struggle
Speaker 1: with it, We've seen Dan struggle with it. That is
Speaker 1: something that is really sensitive, and Dan clearly is exhibiting
Speaker 1: signs of distress. And I'm just like, did anybody make
Speaker 1: a phone call after that? Or was it just like
Speaker 1: not in my living room?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 1: Just God, please do that somewhere else like that. Honestly,
Speaker 1: that was making me crazy. I was like, is Dan
Speaker 1: Scott so selfish that he's gonna go off himself in
Speaker 1: Whitey's dream home? Like? That was something that was scary
Speaker 1: for me because I was just like, what is he doing?
Speaker 1: He's still not thinking about anybody other than himself in
Speaker 1: this moment, and it was it was stressful to witness. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and she didn't give trigger warnings very well.
Speaker 5: What a surreal thing like when you really think about that.
Speaker 1: To.
Speaker 5: Ask a person who's known you most of your life.
Speaker 1: To kill you like.
Speaker 5: That is so heavy and I hadn't I hadn't thought
Speaker 5: about what you were saying just now Hill in that way,
Speaker 5: like the pressure to to put that pressure on someone else.
Speaker 1: My god, Dan is such a narcissist. Yeah, because then
Speaker 1: he's still not held accountable. Then it's white he shot
Speaker 1: him instead of him shooting himself. The accountability thing, You're right,
Speaker 1: is like that's his kryptonite. He can't deal and he
Speaker 1: makes assumptions about relationship that I don't think are there,
Speaker 1: assuming that he was closer with Whitey than he really was.
Speaker 1: When he talks about Sawyer and he says, she's the
Speaker 1: only person in my life that doesn't know what I've
Speaker 1: done in my head. I remember on the day and
Speaker 1: when I just watched it back, thinking, you think she's
Speaker 1: in your life, right, but you think there's a relationship there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's weird. I would have never thought that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, he's he's so turned upside down. He doesn't know
Speaker 4: what's up and what's down. That's what's so beautiful to
Speaker 4: me about Whitey hugging him in that moment. That felt
Speaker 4: so I wish we'd had more time with it, because
Speaker 4: you could see how much work and time Paul and
Speaker 4: Barry had put into that scene, and he only had
Speaker 4: an hour for the episode, you know, but man, I
Speaker 4: would like to have spent a little more time there
Speaker 4: with them and that hug and just somebody letting him
Speaker 4: know there's if there's a sliver of hope for you,
Speaker 4: I'm willing to extend. In spite of all the things
Speaker 4: you've done and all the things you've done to me,
Speaker 4: I'm still willing to give you a hug and show
Speaker 4: you love and compassion. That's outrageous, It's really beautiful.
Speaker 1: Well, he also I was scared for a moment that
Speaker 1: Whitey was gonna, like really buy it. Barry was so
Speaker 1: good in that when Nathan walks up, I was scared
Speaker 1: that Nathan's moment was going to be ruined by Whitey
Speaker 1: being like, you should share this with your father's son. Yeah. No,
Speaker 1: they just like went and had the moment and Dan
Speaker 1: had to walk away. And so while he showed compassion,
Speaker 1: he's still maintained the boundary. Yes, you are on the outside, Danny,
Speaker 1: and there's hope for you to be on the inside,
Speaker 1: but you're gonna have to do the work. I'm not
Speaker 1: your liaison I'm not your bridge. You go figure you
Speaker 1: out and do the work. Yeah, And I think that's
Speaker 1: important because we've given Dan's got chance after chance after chance,
Speaker 1: and there are just certain personalities that cannot get out
Speaker 1: of their own way and it's not anybody else's job
Speaker 1: to fix them. He can sit. Maybe that applies to
Speaker 1: our boss as well. There were so many apology speeches
Speaker 1: in this script, and there was a part of me
Speaker 1: sitting there listening to them, being like, what beautiful words,
Speaker 1: what wisdom, what karma? Yeah, it's do the work. And
Speaker 1: Dan hasn't done the work.
Speaker 4: He's on this journey now though it's like it seems
Speaker 4: like it's actually starting, but we've had so many moments
Speaker 4: of him feeling like he's actually starting, and so that's
Speaker 4: what And so many people have told him that and
Speaker 4: directly been there walking through that with him and giving
Speaker 4: him these chances. And I want to believe it's new,
Speaker 4: but I guess we'll see, we'll see what happens.
Speaker 1: I think when you take inventory of your life and
Speaker 1: you look at the people who have stood by you,
Speaker 1: and you look at the people who you were us
Speaker 1: together with, there are people that need chance after chance
Speaker 1: after chance, after chance after chance, and they're addicted to
Speaker 1: new beginnings. They are addicted to conflict and resolution. In
Speaker 1: my forties, I'm only now realizing to steer clear of
Speaker 1: those people. I don't know if that's true. I think
Speaker 1: it's really important to be empathetic and hold them at
Speaker 1: arm's length because there are so many people out there
Speaker 1: that are consistent and stable and supportive and safe, and
Speaker 1: in realizing that, there's personality addictions. Like Dan Scott clearly
Speaker 1: has this problem with wanting to start over and over
Speaker 1: and over again, but never actually takes off. He never
Speaker 1: actually gets to chapter two. He's always at chapter one
Speaker 1: of the of the realization.
Speaker 4: Oh, you're saying like it's Sisyphus's rock, like people who
Speaker 4: will get to the get to the breaking point and
Speaker 4: then turn around and sabotage themselves all the way back
Speaker 4: to the beginning. And then every time, Oh, I see
Speaker 4: what you're saying, because I was like, yeah, I mean,
Speaker 4: but everybody has to grow, like you have to have
Speaker 4: constant new beginnings. How else do you grow as a human.
Speaker 4: I don't know if that's an addiction. I think that's
Speaker 4: actually like super important and healthy for people to continue
Speaker 4: to grow in relationship.
Speaker 1: You can't continually sabotage your relationships over and over again.
Speaker 1: And that's what we see Dan do. Yeah, and we
Speaker 1: saw Lucas start to develop that pattern as a teenager
Speaker 1: and grow out of it as an adult, which is
Speaker 1: that's what you know, breaking generational curses is all about.
Speaker 1: That's why we love Lucas because we know what he
Speaker 1: could have been, we know what Nathan could have been,
Speaker 1: and their whole storyline is to break that generational curse
Speaker 1: and not follow what was modeled for them.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, and I think it's really it's a really
Speaker 5: interesting thing. And they're you know, it's kind of like
Speaker 5: JoJo's old phrase, right, like two horns on the same goat,
Speaker 5: Like they're close together but also wildly different, these two
Speaker 5: things we're talking about. You know, Yes, I think it's
Speaker 5: an incredible thing to grow throughout your life and to
Speaker 5: be willing to. By the way, like when we talk
Speaker 5: about growth, when people you know, outgrow bad situations, or
Speaker 5: they decide to break generational trauma, or they realize they're
Speaker 5: in absolutely the wrong relationship and so they fucking leave.
Speaker 5: Like I will celebrate people who leave what is not
Speaker 5: good for them, who leave where they are being mistreated anytime.
Speaker 5: I don't care how long you were there. I don't
Speaker 5: care when you figured it out. If it was bad
Speaker 5: for you, get out, like absolutely, And I also see
Speaker 5: exactly that thing you're saying Hill where there's some people
Speaker 5: who it's almost like people like Dan, people with those
Speaker 5: sort of personality disorders create drama and harm so they
Speaker 5: have something to talk about and fix.
Speaker 4: A problem to solve.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and it's I think it's really interesting. And you know,
Speaker 5: obviously one of the signs of like healthy self reflection
Speaker 5: when you're willing to take inventory and say like am
Speaker 5: I outgrowing something? Or am I running from something? Am
Speaker 5: I evolving in a good way? Or do I have
Speaker 5: some crutch from my childhood or whatever? And it's like,
Speaker 5: you know, there's that like famous adage that when we
Speaker 5: talk about people like Dan, you know, when we talk
Speaker 5: about narcissists, a narcissist will often tell you you're the
Speaker 5: narcissist when you stop, when you start to refuse to
Speaker 5: be on the receiving end of narcissistic abuse anymore. Yeah,
Speaker 5: And you know, it's always a therapist who's helping you
Speaker 5: cope with that. As I know, we've all had to
Speaker 5: in our own ways. Who says, like, if you the
Speaker 5: patient come in here and say, wait, could I be
Speaker 5: the narcissist? No, because a narcissist will never ask if
Speaker 5: they're a narcissist exactly, period, end of story. And so
Speaker 5: I think all of that stuff, like everything we've learned
Speaker 5: about who Dan is and how those sorts of personalities present.
Speaker 5: And you know, the way Paul has been able to,
Speaker 5: as such a talented actor, humanize this man who's a nightmare,
Speaker 5: makes you feel for him in that moment, and it
Speaker 5: allows Whitey to feel for him in that moment and
Speaker 5: lovingly say to him, you did this. You are being
Speaker 5: held accountable for the choices you made. You murdered your brother.
Speaker 5: So it's really not surprising that your kids don't want
Speaker 5: to hang out with you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, and it's and it's wild to watch
Speaker 1: what a hard pill that.
Speaker 5: Is for Dan to swallow.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like, so you can escape and run away, or
Speaker 4: if you're interested in redemption, there is hope for you
Speaker 4: if you're interested in it. Yeah, if not, but you're
Speaker 4: gonna have to do You get to choose.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a big it's a big thing. And what
Speaker 5: an interesting thing too, like that the episode is actually
Speaker 5: so happy. You see people everywhere choosing their joy, but this,
Speaker 5: this heavy, heavy sort of anchor is in the middle
Speaker 5: of it.
Speaker 1: But look at the flip side. Victoria is going through
Speaker 1: the same situation, right, And so Dan, who's apologized and
Speaker 1: apologized and apologize and apologized and apologize and apologize. I
Speaker 1: mean it is an endless what the Dan Scott wants
Speaker 1: a new chapter? Yeah? Sorry, Yeah, I'm bored bye. Victoria,
Speaker 1: on the other hand, has also been a terrible selfish
Speaker 1: me me and mom. And Victoria's apology in this episode
Speaker 1: hit me totally differently because I believed it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, me too.
Speaker 1: I think she actually will do the work. You can
Speaker 1: tell that she's already done the work because she has
Speaker 1: observed and been very specific in her apologies. Yes, And
Speaker 1: that to me is the mark of a true apology,
Speaker 1: because there's so many people that will say, well, whatever
Speaker 1: I did, I'm sorry you No, you're not, Yeah, you
Speaker 1: just wanted to end.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And there's action behind it, behind her apology.
Speaker 1: She's very specific. Yes, she hands over the companies, right,
Speaker 1: that's right.
Speaker 5: And I like that you use the word observed because
Speaker 5: something I love about this last series of episodes is
Speaker 5: that we get to see and you know, they don't
Speaker 5: give you a lot of quiet time on camera, especially
Speaker 5: when you're in an ensemble cast like this. There's always
Speaker 5: scenes that wind up on the cutting room floor because
Speaker 5: you got to make the forty three minute line. Like
Speaker 5: you know, for our friends at Home. It so much
Speaker 5: gets cut out, all the air sometimes gets taken out.
Speaker 5: And yet even in these jam packed episodes, we've gotten
Speaker 5: so many scenes where we watch Victoria observe what's happening
Speaker 5: around her, watching Brooke from behind, watching Brook with Sam,
Speaker 5: watching Julian, watching She's watching, and she's realizing so many
Speaker 5: things about her daughter's life that she just never knew
Speaker 5: before because she was never around. And to see the
Speaker 5: culmination of all that observation be that authentic apology where
Speaker 5: she can look at Brooke and say, now I see
Speaker 5: and I know what you need to hear, and I'm
Speaker 5: sorry I didn't say it sooner. Oh I sobbed, I remember,
Speaker 5: I mean genuinely sobbing.
Speaker 1: On the day I couldn't start. Daphnie and I just
Speaker 1: wept together and.
Speaker 5: It made me cry. Today, the feeling of it is
Speaker 5: so visceral, and it is exactly that. It's because it's
Speaker 5: a real it's a real, deep observational apology, and there's
Speaker 5: substance to it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it requires real humility. It's not escape, it's not
Speaker 4: self pity. It's actual humility. And I want to grow,
Speaker 4: I want to change, And here's my attempt at action
Speaker 4: behind it. Here's also this is such a great example
Speaker 4: of tree Hill being such a central character in the
Speaker 4: arc of all of our storylines that you look at
Speaker 4: Dan who grew up in tree Hill, and he just
Speaker 4: takes it for granted. He takes everything that he has
Speaker 4: for granted. Big fish in a small pond. Here comes Victoria,
Speaker 4: big fish in big pond, and comes into this tiny
Speaker 4: little town and her whole heart is rearranged because of
Speaker 4: her interactions with the people that live in this town
Speaker 4: and stand on street corners and have kisses in moonlight,
Speaker 4: and cars driving down the street that stop at red lights,
Speaker 4: and boys coming in and out of the store, and
Speaker 4: girls without parents coming in and meeting her daughter. Like
Speaker 4: there's all these just beautiful, little romantic moments that have
Speaker 4: chipped away at the ice around her heart. And this
Speaker 4: moment was so satisfying for me because of that.
Speaker 1: I think there are also some parents that struggle to
Speaker 1: connect with their children at different ages. So I know
Speaker 1: a lot of people who are really great with their
Speaker 1: kids until they hit about twelve. Everybody complains about like
Speaker 1: middle school because they're like, all of a sudden, my
Speaker 1: child's rebelling now, And I'm like, well, no, they're not.
Speaker 1: They're own people, you know, And so it's really easy
Speaker 1: to love us year old, super easy. And then there
Speaker 1: are some people that are like little kids yack, and
Speaker 1: they wait until their kids are like seventeen eighteen to
Speaker 1: connect and have like a meaningful adult connection. And Victoria
Speaker 1: just might be one of those people who until she
Speaker 1: can speak to Brook woman to woman as an adult,
Speaker 1: she struggles with no k Like we don't see her
Speaker 1: with kids, we don't see her with like Jamie. She's
Speaker 1: not a natural nurturer. She's not going to hold a baby,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 5: Peyton would rather hand her baby to Dan Scott than Victoria.
Speaker 1: A hundred of person, a hundred person.
Speaker 4: But I love that her performance wasn't overly emotional. That
Speaker 4: was another thing that being someone who's not a natural nurturer,
Speaker 4: who wouldn't be great with kids, she's not a super
Speaker 4: emotional woman, or maybe she isn't.
Speaker 1: She just hides it all.
Speaker 4: But that's kind of also what made a great contrast
Speaker 4: to dance performance, which was super emotional, super intense. That Victoria,
Speaker 4: It's like, I'm not going to minimize your pain and
Speaker 4: what I've done to you by making this moment about
Speaker 4: me and needing you to comfort me because I'm crying
Speaker 4: and I feel bad about myself and i feel bad
Speaker 4: about all the things that I've done. It's like she
Speaker 4: had enough respect for Brooke to hold that in ye
Speaker 4: and let it, let the moment really be about Brook again,
Speaker 4: so mature, so humble.
Speaker 1: Loved it. I love that she talked about the dude
Speaker 1: that she loved and that was the thing that like
Speaker 1: got her. She's like, oh my god, I cannot let
Speaker 1: my daughter make this life changing mistake that ruined my life. Yes,
Speaker 1: meeting your father? Oof? I wonder who this guy was?
Speaker 1: Was it Gregory Harrison? Did they meet later? And she's like, oh,
Speaker 1: there you are.
Speaker 4: So good?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, who's the guy that broke Victorious hard? Does he
Speaker 1: ever come back?
Speaker 4: Is that a thing that they bring back later?
Speaker 5: No? I mean you do meet my dad eventually, but
Speaker 5: I don't think no.
Speaker 1: I bet he was like a Formula one race car
Speaker 1: driver or a painter.
Speaker 4: Maybe he was a garbage man.
Speaker 5: Well, he definitely was. He did because she says he
Speaker 5: didn't come from my circle. My parents wouldn't allow it,
Speaker 5: and I, you know, I don't know. I think that's
Speaker 5: a really profound thing as an adult and something that
Speaker 5: I realized nobody talks to us about when we're younger.
Speaker 5: You know, It's it's sort of been a big part
Speaker 5: of my journey is figuring out like well, everybody says things.
Speaker 5: You hear these phrases like marriage is hard, and you
Speaker 5: know this is you really got to do the work,
Speaker 5: and like, well, okay, but how hard Cause I don't know.
Speaker 5: I've got friends, Like we've talked a lot about this, Hillary,
Speaker 5: Like in all the years I've watched you and Jeffrey,
Speaker 5: Like you guys done some hard work, but like you're
Speaker 5: always having a good time and it might seem insane,
Speaker 5: but like it really was this aha moment for me
Speaker 5: of like, hold on, I don't think hard is supposed
Speaker 5: to be torture.
Speaker 1: Right, that's just a cry every day.
Speaker 4: Yeah, for people who are used to laying down on
Speaker 4: the in the road so everybody else can walk all
Speaker 4: over that.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 5: I was like, huh, I think like maybe sobbing at
Speaker 5: the kitchen table every night is like not the kind
Speaker 5: of hard that is sustainable.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think there's something.
Speaker 5: So poignant about this moment between Brooke and Victoria watching
Speaker 5: it now, like as a you know, woman in my
Speaker 5: early forties who has just had the wild last couple
Speaker 5: of years that I've had, It's like, I wish somebody
Speaker 5: had been able to have that conversation with me in
Speaker 5: my twenties, Like it's a conversation my mom and I
Speaker 5: are having now where it's like, just because you do
Speaker 5: everything you're supposed to do and everything society tells you
Speaker 5: to do, and and you check every box on the
Speaker 5: list that is presented to us, which is more or
Speaker 5: less the same you know.
Speaker 1: For each good girl.
Speaker 5: Yeah girl, like and you do it and you're like,
Speaker 5: is this it? Like is my reward for doing everything right?
Speaker 5: Sobbing at my fucking kitchen table every night? Like really?
Speaker 1: And I love I love.
Speaker 5: That Victoria looks at her and says, I did what
Speaker 5: I was supposed to do. I picked the right kind
Speaker 5: of guy. And I've regretted it every day. Please don't
Speaker 5: do what I did. Please go chase what makes you happy,
Speaker 5: not the piece of paper or the guy from the
Speaker 5: right social circle or you know, picking the beginning of
Speaker 5: a season one of the knicks. Yeah, like, stop doing
Speaker 5: the pr and go do your life.
Speaker 1: Stop doing the her is the thing when she said
Speaker 1: I don't give a show that it's close over, bros,
Speaker 1: that's bulls.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you misnamed your company.
Speaker 1: You need to take care of you and everything else
Speaker 1: will be fine. Yeah, Like I loved that. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: love that because old Victoria would have protected that brand
Speaker 1: at all costs.
Speaker 5: Of course. And by the way, it's what we've all
Speaker 5: been cultured to do. And you realize how your work
Speaker 5: bleeds into your life, Like we've talked about it a
Speaker 5: lot on this show. You get told you got to
Speaker 5: show up. If you screw it up, you're screwing it
Speaker 5: up for two hundred other people. You you better grin
Speaker 5: and Barrett, you better do these days. You better not complain.
Speaker 5: And when you learn to be a good girl, a
Speaker 5: good soldier, you of course you take that home with you. Yeah,
Speaker 5: and the permission slip to undo that, I mean, it
Speaker 5: changed my life and I love from this moment in me,
Speaker 5: my Sophia's life, watching this scene in this episode and going,
Speaker 5: holy shit, that is even more profound then. I knew
Speaker 5: it to be then, and I knew that scene was
Speaker 5: a big deal then because I couldn't stop crying like
Speaker 5: a baby all day while we shot.
Speaker 1: You're so good. You were so shocked, you were flabbergasted
Speaker 1: to hear those words come out of her mouth. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And it was so like sweet to watch. It was
Speaker 1: almost like you were pinching yourself, like is this real?
Speaker 1: Is there gonna be a punchline at the end.
Speaker 5: Yeah, When she says I am so proud of you,
Speaker 5: like capital s O like I, I burst into tears
Speaker 5: in the dead I was just like yeah.
Speaker 1: But it's like it's it's a life lesson that we've
Speaker 1: applied here because for ten years I kept my mouth
Speaker 1: shut about what went on on our show because I
Speaker 1: didn't want to be it for the fans. I was
Speaker 1: a good girl. I towed the party line, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, Like I did all the things I
Speaker 1: was told to do. I fulfilled the expectations. And the
Speaker 1: second I said get and I just started telling the
Speaker 1: truth about what really happened here. It didn't ruin it
Speaker 1: for the fans. If anything, the love of our show
Speaker 1: and the fervor for our show has grown since we
Speaker 1: started telling the truth about what this was. And I
Speaker 1: hope that's you know, I hope that means something to
Speaker 1: somebody out there who's going through a similar situation. If
Speaker 1: you're honest about it, if you're honest about your feelings
Speaker 1: about the reality, the shame goes away, right, you can
Speaker 1: actually take pride in it again. I hated talking about
Speaker 1: our show for a full decade, and now I'm like, Jeffrey,
Speaker 1: you got to watch this. We are adorable. We will
Speaker 1: never be cute or in our whole life. I'm so
Speaker 1: proud of this show because in telling the truth, I've
Speaker 1: been able to separate the stuff I didn't like and
Speaker 1: the stuff that I love. And so hearing victory like
Speaker 1: a woman on the show be that called arms, you're right,
Speaker 1: it is more meaningful now, all these years later.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I see things in it that I didn't see them,
Speaker 5: and I love it. I love her so much. I
Speaker 5: didn't think I could love Daphne anymore, and here we are,
Speaker 5: and it makes me love our storyline even more because
Speaker 5: it echoes the same sort of thing that you and
Speaker 5: I get to have in this episode, Hillary, when I
Speaker 5: come to see you with the baby, like we're the
Speaker 5: love story. And I feel the same way about Daphne
Speaker 5: and about Victoria and Brooke. I'm like, now they're a
Speaker 5: love story too.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: And it's so that's not to say our epic love
Speaker 5: stories Peyton and Lucas and Brook and Julian and Haley
Speaker 5: and Nathan are less valuable at all. You know, they're
Speaker 5: the wish fulfillment. But the friendships we forge, they're the
Speaker 5: things that raise us. They are the places we go
Speaker 5: home to, Like, you know, it's just a different thing.
Speaker 5: And when your best friend has a baby and you're like,
Speaker 5: oh great, he's gone, Well it's our baby.
Speaker 1: This is actually our baby. Five.
Speaker 4: Victoria gave Brook what she's been searching for this whole time,
Speaker 4: I mean the whole time we've known Brook. She's been
Speaker 4: searching for that permission to stop, to be okay with
Speaker 4: the mess. I feel like Brook's always pushing, She's always like,
Speaker 4: the mess is okay, It's okay, we have to be messy.
Speaker 4: But it's also like in action, it's all like trying
Speaker 4: to be perfect all the time and then falling apart
Speaker 4: and then trying to put it all together again. And
Speaker 4: Victoria is the only person in the world who can
Speaker 4: give that to her because she's the one who created
Speaker 4: the problem in the first place with Brook by raising
Speaker 4: her to be someone who felt the constant need to perform. Yeah,
Speaker 4: and by giving her this gift of the opposite perspective
Speaker 4: that she's always been told. I'm really curious to see
Speaker 4: how that progresses for Brook having this now new permission.
Speaker 4: The release is.
Speaker 1: Brook gonna wear sweatpants? Now? Could the imagine Brooke Lane
Speaker 1: in Sam's bed, in the bedroom that looks just like
Speaker 1: Peyton's old bedroom. Yeah, Brook Lane in the bed with
Speaker 1: her mini skirt and her perfect hels. I was like,
Speaker 1: Brooke Davis needs to Yeah, I'm like, could I just
Speaker 1: have like some house shoes?
Speaker 5: What are we doing?
Speaker 1: Does Brook not have a robe? She is in action
Speaker 1: has to be perfect all the time. So Yeah, I
Speaker 1: love I love what you're saying. Their joy. The Victoria
Speaker 1: is the only one that can break that spell.
Speaker 5: Friends, we're getting the signal from our producers that we've
Speaker 5: done a whole episode, but we're clearly not done talking
Speaker 5: we have a lot to discuss, and honestly, after six seasons,
Speaker 5: I think we've earned it. So let's come back in
Speaker 5: the next episode for part two.
Speaker 4: Hey, thanks for listening.
Speaker 1: Don't forget to leave us a review.
Speaker 5: You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queens oh.
Speaker 1: Or email us at Drama Queens at iHeartRadio dot com.
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